WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:08.199 With Laurent's segle And from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin. 2 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:10.480 This is redefining energy. 3 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:11.519 Today. 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.560 On redefining energy, we're going to talk about solar ground. 5 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:15.359 Yeah. 6 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:18.239 And as ultimately you were at the Solar Power so 7 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:21.679 Much a few months back and you moderated a panel 8 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.199 which was around the team winning the Flex challenges, which 9 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:27.440 obviously is really critical to SOLO going forward. 10 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:33.399 Yeah. So I was invited by SO Europe who organized 11 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:37.399 the whole debate. It was in Brussels, you know, great 12 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:41.679 theater and oh my god, we were like six on stage, 13 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:44.039 which was difficult to moderate. 14 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:46.960 But no better man than you to step up to. 15 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:52.240 The challenge, certainly. So I had on stage Andrea Wetchler 16 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:58.119 from the European Parliament Regacia and she's from DG Energy. 17 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:05.000 And then from a perspective, I had Nick Bitzios from Metland, 18 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:11.319 Juan river Abad from ABAD, Roller Vlasio Suffliss from Light 19 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:16.959 Source BP and finally Jose Manuel Cavallo from Arslo Metal. 20 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:21.840 And the old debate was what's the green industrial deal? 21 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.560 Does it work? Does it answers the current issue faced 22 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.079 by the solar developers and the energy consumer and the 23 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.400 debate was very lively and we had the interesting outcomes. 24 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.239 Oh why don't we listen to its. 25 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.439 Hello for those who are leaving the room, you're making 26 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:44.280 a big mistake because the action is going to be here. 27 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.120 Thank you for the introduction. As this is going to 28 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.560 be recorded for a live podcast. There's no video, it's 29 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.439 just audio. So when I raise my hand, you need 30 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:10.800 to make some noise. I invite my six fellow panelists 31 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:15.280 to climb on the stage. So we have a very 32 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:20.840 diverse panel, two regulators to producers of solar and to 33 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.199 consumer of solar energy. And the question is do we 34 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.840 have a great harmony between all my panelists or are 35 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.240 they going to be a bit of a friction, which 36 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.479 I hope because it makes always better material. So we 37 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:40.639 have Nick Bitios, the head of the Brussel's office at Metland, 38 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:47.919 Juan Rivier Abad, head of Global Renovables at hiber Rolla Vlast, 39 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:54.000 josufls COO Light Source BP, jose Manuel Carvalo, head of 40 00:02:54.080 --> 00:03:00.639 Runerable Energy at Arcelometale, Andrea Weschler. So that we already 41 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:08.080 thank you. Rega Cia. Oh my god, I mean your 42 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:13.280 title is a mouseful. So acting hou runevable energy system integration, 43 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:21.479 the energy no cool So you're ready, I'm going to 44 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:24.120 ask the first question. So the first question is for 45 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:30.199 Andrea and then Polar or vice versa. So you've put 46 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:37.680 together this great Clean Industrial Deal and especially apparently there 47 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:44.000 are four main subcategories around industrial decombanization, affordable energy and 48 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:48.400 flex For you, the question is very simple, how the 49 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:52.039 success looks like in the next five years. 50 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:54.879 Well, thank you very much for having me here today, 51 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.240 and I have to clearly sad. The Clean Industrial Dea, 52 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:00.639 of course, is the work of the Commission and Parliament 53 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.639 and representative of the people. We have of course given 54 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.879 substantively input on what we are expecting after the elections 55 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.599 last year. Now the expectation in terms of the Clean 56 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.199 Industrial Deal and especially also the Energy Affordable Energy Act 57 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:20.680 is certainly the action plan that we see decobnization continuing, 58 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:25.720 but also that we see competitiveness in these areas increasing. 59 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:30.160 And an additional factor is that energy security must be 60 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:32.839 a key priority for the next couple of years. So 61 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.879 as a parliamentarian, we'll focus on filling the Industrial Deal 62 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.879 with life, seeing that we get down the energy costs 63 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.720 for the people, for the industry, whilst securing supply of 64 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.199 energy for the industry and the people. 65 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.240 Cruder oh la, so no, thank you very much, San, 66 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:55.399 really a blige to join this event, and congratulations of 67 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:59.480 course to SOA BAA Europe. So I think in the 68 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.759 convicts of the Clean Industrial Deal and the Affordable Reaction Plan, 69 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.959 but more generally for this mandate, what we would like 70 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:13.439 to see is progress on tackling the fundamental challenges that 71 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:19.439 we're mentioned before, so competitiveness of course, affordable energy, energy 72 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:24.519 security and of course link very much to competitiveness as 73 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:29.199 to sides of the same coin, the carbonization. And for 74 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.759 this I think of course, coming from the angle of 75 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.360 very much my digit and my unit. What we see 76 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:39.879 is that renewable energy, solar also other renewable eno resources 77 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:45.279 are really the key to breach these challenges together. And 78 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:49.839 this means in terms of measuring success reducing permitting times 79 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:53.240 on the supply side, so that really progresses much quicker 80 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:58.639 on deployment of renewables. It also requires flexibility of course 81 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.439 for integrating renewables into the system, so the man response 82 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:04.560 storage coming together. 83 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.519 It also would require. 84 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:10.920 Looking at as peving up and increasing the rate of 85 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.439 electrification because it's really a way to bring the benefits 86 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.600 of renewables to the end consumers, being industry or others, 87 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.759 and of course removing the barriers to for instance, long 88 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.720 term contracts such as PPAs to then again bring the 89 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:28.959 benefits to the end consumers. 90 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:33.759 Okay, very nice. Now, before we got my full fillo corporate, 91 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:37.879 I like to correct the theme of competitiveness, because there 92 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:43.600 is this feeling that everything's very stable in the European grid, 93 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.040 or that we lost competitiveness. But when I look back 94 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.160 the past twenty years, we have installed three hundred and 95 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.120 fifty gig awad of solar, we have installed two hundred 96 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:56.399 and fifty gya awad of wind, we have retired one 97 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.160 hundred and fifty gig awad of coal and thirty ahad 98 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.040 of nuclear. And of course the question is, oh, well, 99 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:04.000 what about the price? What about the price? Well, it's 100 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:06.639 very simple. If you go back twenty years ago, the 101 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.639 merchant price in Europe was forty five year open maga. 102 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:13.439 What hour, which adjusted for inflation, is seventy open maga. 103 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.360 What our today And if you go on the ex 104 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:19.759 like I did yesterday, the calendar twenty eight is at 105 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.720 seventy row. So in fact, the price is the same, 106 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.839 despite the fact that we've managed to install a lot 107 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.600 of vulnerables. Now. Of course, when people compare to the US, 108 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.560 that's a totally different story because twenty years ago their 109 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:36.040 prices were fifty percent above hours. The price of GM 110 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:38.959 was sixty eight dollars or maga what hour, and in 111 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:43.120 Texas was sixty which would be one hundred today. But 112 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:45.040 now they are not at one hundred today, they are 113 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.639 at forty eight in pgm, and they are twenty seven 114 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:53.279 in Texas. So our competitiveness as stay flat. Their competitiveness 115 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:57.000 has improved a lot, and that's what we're kind of 116 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:01.519 fighting against. Unfortunately, we don't have a c of cheap gas, 117 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.120 so we need to do it with vulnerables. Knowing that, 118 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.959 I'm gonna ask the first question to Juana. So you're 119 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.560 typet La. Can you describe what you I mean, everybody 120 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:14.800 knows hybat all I. Can you describe how solar is 121 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:16.240 important for high Batola. 122 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:19.120 Of course, thank you very much for inviting me here, 123 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.839 but I just wanted to say, you said the beginning 124 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.560 this is going to be a podcast, and you wanted 125 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.720 some conflict here or some discussion. I have to say 126 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:30.639 that For me for the moment, I'm very happy because 127 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.679 what I'm listening, what I'm hearing exactly what we want 128 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.279 to hear. If we're looking forward. The only solution for 129 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:41.279 Europe now is electrifying and antifying with your nibules. And 130 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:45.240 this is a choice that Ivanrola made twenty years ago. 131 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.840 Twenty years ago, it wasn't that easy to decide that 132 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:52.159 we were the first utility to bet Back then it 133 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.000 was mostly wind. But we have bet on wind, we 134 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:01.080 have closed our coal plants, we have bet on solar 135 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.159 when solar became affordable, and we are one of the 136 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.279 main places in solar now and we are most committed 137 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.320 to the energy transition because we think is the only 138 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.759 way forward here in Europe. And as well, we all 139 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.240 know we don't have gas, we don't have oil, so 140 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.440 we need to play our cards. And our cards here 141 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.559 is renewables which are local, which is going to help 142 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:29.240 us for security, for competitiveness, and we have to speed 143 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:31.799 up forward. Of course, this is going to be a 144 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.279 lot of challenges and here that the difficulties of investing 145 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.159 in solar right now. Even if we invest sixty five 146 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.960 gigabas last year, it is true it was today or 147 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.679 yesterday in Spain, we had seven hours of zero price. 148 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:45.240 This year, we have. 149 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.840 Almost three months, so let's see what happens this spring. 150 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.480 So there are challenges ahead. The good news is that 151 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:57.799 we have the solutions. The bad news is that it's 152 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.639 going to be hard to put its own way. But 153 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.000 so how to do this? We know the path and 154 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:03.879 that's why we should. We should be going. 155 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:09.320 Good, good good. Okay, so far very nice. I'm going 156 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:15.480 to ask another provider plus shows, same nice symphony. Everything's okay. 157 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.120 First of all, I'm very glad to be here. Thank 158 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.240 you so much for hosting us. I think the last 159 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.320 couple of days, especially on the co forum, it was 160 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.559 interesting to see that we are not alone. We have 161 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:29.159 very common concerns, but also very much common opportunities. So 162 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.960 I would reterate the same message. Light Source is predominantly 163 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.159 a solar developer, so we develop, construct, and operate. We 164 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.879 have fifty gigoles of pipeline, of which a very big 165 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.440 chunk is mature pipeline in Europe. So really the question here, 166 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:44.080 just back on the same message, is how quickly can 167 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.559 we deploy it and how can we remove all the 168 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.919 obstacles that exist at the moment in order to do that, 169 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.120 so we all know that the solution is there. I 170 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.480 would add in the element of security, element of climate 171 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.600 change and affordable energy, the speed of deployment, right, so 172 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.039 like two thousand and three you needed a here to 173 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.240 do a gigot, twenty twenty three, that's a gigot per day. 174 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.120 So it's not a question of if we have enough 175 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.879 to do things. The capital is there is how do 176 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:14.440 we remove the obstacles? And those obstacles are or the 177 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.279 known stuff. The first thing is around great and obviously 178 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.120 flexibility is one of the solutions, and utilizing what we 179 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.879 have much more efficiently is one. And then on the 180 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.480 permitting side, obviously, what can we do to implement the 181 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:29.240 very good ideas that the Commission is actually having. The 182 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.440 ideas are there, how are the implemented and national level 183 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:34.919 is the question, but very positive. 184 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.159 Okay, it's good. Now we have the other side of 185 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.799 the ledger, so we have the still industry and the 186 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:47.720 yelluminium industry. Guys, everything's okay, or you want to complain 187 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.440 a bit please, We're going to start with Jose thank. 188 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:53.039 You for the question. I mean, very pleased to be 189 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.840 here today from oslow metal. Basically, on our side, what 190 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:00.240 we need is the competitive energy and we have that 191 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:02.960 solar is very competitive, so we don't complain on these 192 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:04.000 seven hours of. 193 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.879 Zero europe magower is not a problem. 194 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.399 And what executive vice president as Rivera said, we need 195 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.639 to have a sustainable business. So for us, we understand 196 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:16.240 that there are these seven hours of a zero price 197 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:18.559 are going to be there. This is not going to 198 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.399 motivate any of the players to invest in new renewals. 199 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.480 And on our side, we need more renewables, we more volume, 200 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.399 more stable, so that's why we are very supportive of 201 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:28.559 the flex initiative. 202 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.399 Yes, you know, still looks for baseloads. 203 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:34.399 So it's very difficult when we try to discuss PPAs 204 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:37.320 on solar and we tell them we need baseload, some 205 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.919 of the counterparts run away quite fast. And that's it 206 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.759 because basically it's true that our operations, and this is 207 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:46.080 a good side of the transition programs, we are going 208 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.519 to have more electric card furnaces. These are flexible assets, 209 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.320 but the base of our operation is still you know, 210 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.960 less furnaces, is still continuous casting, continuous operations, so we 211 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.159 still look for baseload. We want more renewals, so I 212 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.600 think it's going to on a good way. We are 213 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.600 also looking ourselves into better storage. I think some of 214 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.759 the players there already have invested. We have not ourselves 215 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.559 did it, but we believe if we can get cheap 216 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.840 solar together with some storage capacities, we'll be able to 217 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:17.279 have this pizzle power that we are looking for. 218 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.080 Thank you wow, Nick. 219 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.919 I've been introduced as a consumer, but I would say 220 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:27.200 at Metlan we look at solar power from just about 221 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.759 every angle that is imaginable. So on the one hand, 222 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.240 we are a very significant developer of solo projects all 223 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.159 across the world, so that ranges from Australia, Canada, Chile, 224 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.080 most countries in Europe. We have a pipeline that currently 225 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:45.039 sits at around nine gigawatts of solar PV another two 226 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.600 gigawatts of battery storage, very much feeding into the flex 227 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:53.039 them and we are also an electricity utility in Greece, 228 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.240 so representing about twenty percent of the retail market. We 229 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:59.279 have a higher share in generation as well. But as 230 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.360 you've mentioned, Laurent, the main reason I guess that I've 231 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.840 been invited to speak to you today is because we 232 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.240 are a very significant consumer as well of electricity. So 233 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.799 the aluminium plant that we have in Greece we consume 234 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.519 about three terror what hours of electricity each year. That 235 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:19.360 translates into roughly six percent of the consumption annually in 236 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.000 the entire country of Greece. And if we think about 237 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:27.200 the major challenges that the solar industry is facing, Juan, 238 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.159 you mentioned a couple of them, negative prices, curtailments. A 239 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.440 big part of that is obviously of solving it is 240 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.759 getting the flexibility into the system. But another one is 241 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:40.600 that electrification has not so far been progressing at the 242 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.240 rate that we wanted and that it needs to. And 243 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.600 many of the existing industrial installations, because of this energy 244 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:49.320 crisis we've been going through, have been forced to shut down. 245 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.720 So we had two years in a row where instead 246 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.600 of electricity consumption increasing, it actually dropped, and then it's 247 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.639 sort of flatlined last year. So I'm here to tell 248 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.960 you how we can have a long, thriving, growing electrified 249 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:04.039 industry in Europe. 250 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:08.200 Wow, Andrea are how do you react to that? Did 251 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.840 you learn anything or it's already in the plan? 252 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.519 Well, I think there is very important points that we 253 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.600 are already discussing in the European Parliament, let's talk about 254 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.360 the energy internsive industry. So we've got a debata on 255 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.240 the agenda next week and we're working on an initiative 256 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:28.039 report because electrification certainly is the backbone of the energy 257 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.840 transformation that we're seeing. But at the same time, there 258 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.679 is hard to electrify industries and we need to develop 259 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.600 strategies on how to cater for them, and that's been 260 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.080 very important input we are receiving from the industry on 261 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.679 how we can make flexible energy solutions like solar entity 262 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:47.080 more baseload, how we can make it more flexible, how 263 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:51.639 we increase the storage capacities for the renewable energy. It's 264 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:53.639 the second very important point that I took away, and 265 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:56.600 that's the speed of deployment, where we absolutely need to 266 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.519 decrease and cut the red shape in order to make 267 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.360 this big success. And Parliament is certainly working on this 268 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.200 as well. And there is a third point that has 269 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.639 so far not been mentioned, which is great congestion that 270 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.519 we are facing, and that's another point that Parliament is 271 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.840 working on at the moment with an own initiative report 272 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.360 on how we can get the grid up to speed. Also, 273 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.840 the grid interconnecting various European countries in order to provide 274 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:26.039 for the flexibility that we need in between countries to 275 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.320 sort of balance out the various increases and decreases of 276 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.159 energy supply. So I think these are very important points 277 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.679 confirming the focus that has been laid in the European Parliament. 278 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.720 And so yes, that's our response. We're working on some 279 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.840 of the areas and all the rest of it we 280 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.559 take as homework in order to work in further areas. 281 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.919 And Pola, did you learn anything or is it just 282 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.759 like a normal there at work. 283 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.320 No, I think it's the emphasism on some elements is 284 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:59.840 quite important. Then, definitely, regarding some of the references to 285 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.440 red tape, an area where we see that there is 286 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.119 both a lack of capacity often but also improvements that 287 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.319 could be undertaken in relation to the speed of the 288 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:17.599 administrative procedures and relates indeed to permitting that I had 289 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:23.279 mentioned that really will allow moving faster for the deployment 290 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.720 of renewavers. And some of it also connects to some 291 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.559 of the elements that was mentioned in relation to grets 292 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.319 for instance, so faster permitting also on the grid side, 293 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.440 on the storage side, and not only on the renewver 294 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.759 generation side, so that's one element that I believe connects 295 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:43.119 as well, and of course we have also announced further 296 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.000 actions in this context with the Plant Brisk package that 297 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.240 has also been announced. Then there is also the element 298 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.079 of electrification that as well, as you know, we will 299 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.400 be working on an electrification action plan because it is 300 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:01.519 definitely key for bringing in an efficient way, also the 301 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.799 benefits of renewables to industry and other consumers, so that's 302 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:08.880 also something that we are looking into. And then of 303 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.839 course in terms of solutions in the clean industry, there 304 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.839 there is source an emphasis on financing, simplification of a 305 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.599 sit date also targeted some of the challenges that we 306 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.279 see are faced on the industry side, but also the 307 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:26.599 deployment of some of the tools that we already have there, 308 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.799 for instance in terms of long term contracts PPAs. And 309 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.440 then quite important as well to make the link to 310 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:36.720 the legislation that is already in placed, so also working 311 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.960 to make sure that what is already there and attackle 312 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.359 some of these aspects is then also implemented more quickly. 313 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.279 Okay, so I'm going to give you two ideas, so 314 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.240 write them down because I'm not going to repeat myself. 315 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.359 Number one, you want to do an industrial thing, concentrate 316 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:02.039 on heat below two hundred C. Okay, that's the easy one. 317 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.960 I don't know why people get gangbusters about trying to 318 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.319 decalbanize steel, which is really tough and really expensive, or cement, 319 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.960 whereas half of the gas is below two hundred sea 320 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.480 and to sea, we'll get a lot of industrial ittoms. 321 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:19.480 So focus on this. This is easy, it's winnable. It's 322 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.000 the opien jobs. Focus on minus two hundred sea for 323 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:27.240 heat and the rest for later. That's number one, number two, 324 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.200 and it's great because at some point you push PPAs, 325 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.200 which is a market best solution. But at the same 326 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.839 time we see government who are throwing auctions for solar, 327 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.240 which was great fifteen years ago to kick start the market. 328 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.400 But now when the markets stop, you know, reaching maturity, 329 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.759 this is a bargain you are, of course, I'm sure 330 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.680 the guy from a light sauce you know, is going 331 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.000 to throw a tomato at me. But you know, it's 332 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.240 just too easy. So if you really want to do 333 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.480 solar auctions, at least you put four hour flex or 334 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.119 for our storage. That would be a good way. But 335 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.640 don't throw public money after limited value because in Spain, 336 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.319 what there is a thirty gigawat of solaw already. Okay, fine, 337 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:16.559 do an auction for storage, just don't do a naked solar. 338 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:21.160 I am I fellow producer agreeing with me? Or am 339 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.039 I going to be stabbed in the back in the 340 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.920 next twenty minutes? Please happy to take that. BEZ is 341 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.279 the only thing that we can actually do fast at 342 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.880 the moment. If you want a quick result on the 343 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.799 grid on flexibility and affordability, the only thing you can 344 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.640 do is, as I said, utilize the grid that we 345 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.759 have a bit better and therefore do more BEZ. So 346 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:46.079 from that perspective, there are far more effective measures. We 347 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.599 all know where cartailmen is well have projects, we know 348 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.920 where the problem is where you can have very very 349 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.960 targeted solutions. What we need from an investment perspective, because 350 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.200 as I said, the pipelines are there, not just as 351 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.160 a number of individuals, I'm sure better less as well. 352 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.240 And the only thing that's missing is really a long 353 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.039 term price signal so that we are able to make 354 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.599 a reliable investment choice. And that is something that if 355 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.799 you target it correctly. Connecting with my previous point. 356 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.119 Then that makes more sense now on the CFD and 357 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.519 the auctions, we have too many times seen that we 358 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:24.039 have auctions that have certain qualification criteria and that criteria 359 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.359 is not really placed in the right way in a 360 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.519 sense of Okay, I have a solar project, but maybe 361 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.400 the problem that we have, as I was saying before, 362 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.160 is not in that particular node. So you get capacity 363 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.640 in a place that doesn't deliver as much as it 364 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.359 could do in the short term, as I was saying before, 365 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.440 So you have talken storage as well, so you get 366 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.160 people to just qualify and put a little bit of 367 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.720 storage just to qualify and win, and then you have 368 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:48.400 a lot of people who win the auctions at the 369 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.480 prices that they cannot deliver. So it's not a golden solution. 370 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.000 It could be part of the bigger picture, but they're 371 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.559 much better targeted solutions. And if I would ask something, 372 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.720 is really a long term reliable price signal one? 373 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:05.160 Yes, thank you. I would like to add because I 374 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:09.640 fully agree with with lessons here, and actually you've said 375 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:12.319 that in your first point here. We are in need 376 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.839 of electrification and flexible electrification and we should focus on 377 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.759 the low hugging fruits that we have there and lents 378 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:27.079 I talked about below two hundred degrees, that's a huge part. 379 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.519 I would even go to below five hundred degrees because 380 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.720 below five hundred we have already electrical technologies that can 381 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.880 deliver and there will be also, I hope, a lot 382 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.480 of possibilities to include thermal storage. So this electification of 383 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:47.880 this industry can be electrified at lower cost and very important, 384 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.880 most probably they would become flexible loads, and this can 385 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.200 help all the deployment of renew books because I think 386 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.319 the problem is not mean. We have made a huge 387 00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.799 effort in permitting in the past five years, we have 388 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.279 sad deploying renewables, So the problem is not really there. 389 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.680 The problem is somewhere else. The problem is that now 390 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.880 we are facing a wall, which is we need the 391 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.880 demand because never forget that all the targets for renewals 392 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:17.880 deployment we have put forward is for the entire economy. 393 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.359 So we're looking at this it doesn't make sense to 394 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.519 employ that much renebles if we don't electrify the whole economy. 395 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.559 Those are the targets that for everything, not for the 396 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.480 twenty three percent of energy consumption that electify. We need 397 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.920 to go much further than that. If not, it doesn't 398 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.480 make sense. So I love what you said about going 399 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.039 to the low hanging free. Let's do that. And this 400 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:46.200 will also help sure the big energy intensive consumers because 401 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:49.759