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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone
back to the Pekanona Show. I've been waiting on this
for a while. I have Corey and Woe from Stone
Choirs here, how you guys doing today?
Speaker 2: Doing well? Thank you doing well?
Speaker 1: Cool? Cool? All right? Who wants to give the whole
story about how who you guys are and how the
podcast started?
Speaker 2: You can go ahead, and I'm going to take this one. Okay.
I was going to nominate you, but you said it faster,
So the.
Speaker 3: Story means I'm in charge.
Speaker 2: The story of Stone Choir is really fairly straightforward. A
number of years ago, not that many years ago, but
number of years ago, Woe and I got connected and
started talking and chatting. We talk all the time, and
we recognized pretty quickly that this was something that needed
to be done. It was the sort of show that
we needed on the right wing, and particularly the Christian
right wing, because there were issues that were simply not
being addressed. There were problems in the church, problems politically
and religiously that no one wanted to touch, no one
was willing to touch, and quite frankly, most people weren't
suitable to address these issues. We avoided it for a
while because we knew that doing this kind of show
would attract a certain kind of attention, and it has
most certainly done that. And also the time demands and
things like that. We knew what it would entail, and
we went into it with full knowledge of that, and
it's played out as we thought it would. But we
realize this was not something that we could avoid because
God gives you certain abilities and it is your moral
duty to use those, and so we are using those
with Stone Choir. We're addressing those issues that even if
they've been addressed in the history of the Church, and
most of them have, these are not really novel issues
by and large. They're just things that Christians in the
modern era have forgotten because they've bought into modern propaganda,
whether it's the post war consensus or whatever it happens
to be. They've bought into these modern beliefs that, if
they aren't at least alien to the historical Church, they
are anathema. In many cases, these are things that the
Church has historically condemned as antichrist, as anti Christian, and
so the goal of Stone Choir is to address these
things that are not being addressed in the Church to
give a Christian response, partly because the right wing has
to choose between there's the anti Christian contingent on the
right who look at the current state of the churches,
and they want to tear it all down because they
look at the church and go, it's been subverted. It
didn't defend us, it's importing illegal aliens, it's causing all
these problems. It's not a fair characterization because the church
was one of the last institutions to fall. The church
held out for decades when most of the rest of
the culture has already decayed, and so blaming the church
isn't fair. But that's the one side, and then the
other side would be Christians, and that is the traditional
conservative right wing in the West is Christian. That's part
of what it means to be traditionalist, to be conservative
in the West is to be a Christian. And we
want to arm those men with the actual arguments and
the information they need to address the problems we find
in society today, to address the problems that quite frankly,
the leadership of the church is not addressing. And if
they are addressing it, they're doing it wrong in most
cases because many of them have been subverted. And that's
the case, whether it's the Roman Catholic Church or the
Lutheran Church or I mean, I won't say, you know,
the Episcopalians or groups like that because they were subverted
long ago. But even Presbyterians, we see most of the
mainline bodies have been subverted in some way. And so
the question is what do Christian men do in a
scenario where the church bodies have been subverted and they
are teaching false doctrine, false theology, they are teaching things
that are antithetical to the history of the church. Because
that's the situation where we find ourselves today. And so
that's the purpose of Stone Choir is to address these
matters in a Christian way and to address the things
the third rail, the things other people don't want to
touch or even get near, because those are the matters
that truly matter today.
Speaker 1: Let me ask Woe, why don't you, well, why don't
you talk a little bit about the fact that you're
both ALCMS? I assume correct, right, Okay, So talk a
little bit about the LCMS church. Give it little history
description so people know where we're at, where you're coming from.
Speaker 3: Sure, the LCMS was really more of a Corey question.
He's more of the historian. But the LCMS emerged in
about eighteen forty seven with a group of German immigrants.
They weren't the first Lutherans in the United States, but
they're basically fleeing the Unionist church that was emerging in
Germany as they were finding out their consciences were being
violated by what the state churches were forcing them to
do by basically merging the Lutherans and the Reformed. They
could not bear that anymore, and so they basically came
here for religious freedom.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: A couple centuries after most of my ancestors showed up,
but pursuing the same thing. So they ended up in
the Midwest, and for the most part, the roots of
the Missouri Synod pretty well have remained Midwestern. It's called
Missouri Sin, but it's a national denomination. You know, their
churches in almost every state, but they're concentrated in the Midwest.
It is one of their three church bodies today. In
North America, there's the LCMS Wells, which is the Wisconsin
Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church ELS. Those
two are in fellowship with each other. El's is I
believe Norwegian and history and Wells is different ethnics. So
they're all basically ethnic churches that existed among themselves and
have common ground in terms of theology. For long time
we were in fellowship with them as well, and then
they broke fellowship with us. And I think in the
sixties fifties maybe because the LCMS was starting to go
lib in ways that Wells was found intolerable. And what
happened in the sixties and early seventies is that the
LCMS was on kind of the cutting edge of some
of the apostasy that a lot of churches have since
gone through, and it was basically the only Protestant denomination
that actually fought it off for a while. So there
was an event called SEMINEX. It was a seminary in
exile where basically the entire Saint Louis Seminary of the
LCMS was lived to the point that there were a
lot of professors who denied the denied Scripture, you know,
they were basically kind of Bonhaffer Christians at that point,
so called it, you know, denied the Resurrection, that sort
of stuff in the seventies in what was a very
conservative denomination in the pews. And so thankfully those those
demons were driven out. But what happened was the student
body split and almost all the professors left, and that
was good because they actually they went on to be
the governing force behind ALCA today, the ELCA, which is
the Lutherans that most people think of when you think
Lutheran in North North America, you think rainbow flags and
you know the Tranny DP and like it's you think
some of the worst of Protestantism. That's ALCA, which was
a merger of a number of other denominations in North
America that was headed up by one of the small ones,
but it was the Seminex guys who had left LCMS.
So part of the reason that ALCA is so terrible
now is the people that the LCMS drove out, and
so it sort of went back in a more conservative
direction publicly. But the problem was that we didn't drive
out all the men who had been graduated by those
same professors. So for twenty odd years they'd been spreading
this stuff in the seminary quietly, you know, surreptitiously, very deliberately,
knowing just as mL Kane, you know, he denied the
virgin and you know, the resurrection of the body, but
he wouldn't say it in a pulpit with a bunch
of black Baptist ladies because he'd start a riot, so
he knew it and he believed it, and he just
talked about other things. They did the same stuff. So
they became ascendant, you know, over the next twenty years,
and in the nineties, the Elsie mess was in kind
of rough shape again. And it's just there, as Corey
was saying, you know, every Protestant denomination, every denomination, is
going through the same pattern of subversion. And what we
all see collectively is that not only do the waves
continue to come, but you we must continue to fight
them over and over again generationally, because any inch that
you give, you're never going to get back. And you know,
it's part of the reason we started Stone Choir. You know,
Corey and I certainly listened to I used to listen
to a ton of podcasts, and I've eventually realized, you know,
most of them were became mostly religious and Lutheran and nature.
I was waiting for some of the pastors whom I
respect to speak out about some of the current issues,
and just realizing that they weren't going to do it,
and so Corey and I decide, well we can, and
clearly we must, and you know, I started speaking about
Lutheranism online probably five or six years ago, as I
became more involved just sort of viewing the dissonant right
on the internet, you know, seeing the talking points from
poll and you know, all the very the things that
used to be extremely fringe that no one would ever
talk about in polace society, like in twenty twenty three
on Elon's Twitter, that's almost more of the discourse. And
as I was looking at that, I was seeing, as
Corey was saying, a lot of guys in the dissonant right,
a lot of guys who are outcasts for political views
look at most of Christianity and North America and just
find it utterly contemptible. And they're not wrong. But these
are guys who have no christian background, no church background.
When they look at what Christianity claims to be, they're
rightly revolted. And so I started talking more about my
faith and about Lutheran and saying, like, there's actually something
that you can do in a church that doesn't turn
your stomach. It's it's manly, it's godly at the same time,
and those two things can be compatible. But there are
precious few voices in any denomination that can actually tread
that line. And so that's that's why we started.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I really had never met anyone who
was l CMS until about six or seven years ago
at the Mesa's Institute. You guys probably know Larry Bean,
Larry and Grace, and I was like, Wow, this guy
is just based. I mean, he's hardcore. I mean is
there's there's nothing liberal about him. And then through conversations
I had, it was like everybody was like, Yeah, the
LCMS is just absolutely you know, hardcore. And then you know,
I'm also friends with Ryan turnip Seed and all that started,
you know, coming out in the I guess when a
new version of the Larger Catechism was put out and
there was a commentary along with it, and it seems
like that commentary went basically right along is going right
along with what we see in the world. So was
that really when you guys started to ramp it up?
When that when the Catechism came out and all that stuff,
or you or were you going hard at it before this?
Speaker 3: We actually started Stone aquired just one year ago. Began
in a mid mid October of last year. Specifically, there
one of the episodes of Stone Choir that we did
probably about three months ago now was called the Timeline
of Recriminations, where we describe all the events that subsequently
happened to Quarry myself and to Ryan into another man
as we were speaking out against the large Catechism update.
Speaker 2: For our purposes.
Speaker 3: A lot of that really began a few years ago.
The first, the first seminal moment for me was when
George Floyd O died because the Missouri syn had put
out a press release condemning those policeman for murder after
the video had come out showing clearly that the guy
was suffocating in the back seat of the car. They
accused them of murder before the trial had even begun,
and CORNEYA were both in sense of this is just
It violates the eighth Commandment to accuse someone falsely of
something that they have been convicted of. And so it
was clear that the LCMS and the President Harrison, we're
doing it strictly for racial purposes. It was racial agitation
up and down. So we each independently wrote letters to
him privately and rebuked him for it. And that was
when we realized that they were going to go hard
left publicly. And I think a lot of us in
a lot of different contexts have really had the sense
that the universe almost fractured when Floyd died. There's kind
of a before and after, like COVID just happened at
the same time. But the spiritual change when Floyd died
affected everything, and suddenly people who were saying good things
before May of twenty twenty, after that they just veered
hard and it was all along racial lines. And as
the churches were doing, they're like, well, okay, I guess
this is going to be go time for us. So
the summer prior to the Large Catechism last year, the
Missouri sent had put on a big, very expensive youth
event that was run by lebs. It was run by
Lutherans for Racial Justice. These agitators that emerged just a
few weeks after Floyd's suicide. They basically emerged from Zeus's
four had fully formed with a racial agitation agenda within
the Missouri Sentoate, and they ran the show last summer
at the convention for Kids. And so we began Stone
Choir last fall with the very first episode we did
is related to the Missouri Senate's publishing arm publishing a
book on theology by a girl and we made the
argument that I don't we don't believe that Scriptural League
girls can be teaching theology period. It's not about standing
in the pulpit, it's about teaching theology. Because you know,
Paul argues it was Eve who was deceived. That doesn't
have anything to do with the pastoral office. That has
to do a spiritual competency, and so all church history
goes along with that. So the very first argument we did,
the very first episode in last October was making that argument.
And basically the Missouri Senate has just kind of been
in free fall as we've been just watching. These events
have happened one after another, and so the show is
not about the inside baseball, you know, church drama for
some tiny Midwestern church nomination, because these are problems that
the whole church faces. You know, Roman Catholics are facing.
Any of the statement that came out last week that
was ambiguous at best related to transsexual baptisms, that sort
of thing is it's happening everywhere where. You either have
something that's actually a truly false confession or one that's
so weak that leaves people in utter confusion. And God
is not a god of confusion and the men who
are speaking in God's stead today in the world can't
cause confusion either, and so we will speak. You know,
we called a stone choir because we don't have a
vocation to do this where basically the stones are crying
out because the men who should be doing this correctly.
Speaker 1: Or not, I guess. In my case, I mean, I'm
a cradle Catholic. And in the nineties I started going
to a Baptist church and I ended up a Southern
Baptist and I ended up actually working from them for
a little while. And this was when they were still
it was still pretty hardcore, still conservative, still addressing things
in the culture that needed to be addressed. I could
only I wanted to go to seminary. And the only
seminary that was around there that I would even give
a consideration to was a PCA seminary because I went
to a sixteen eighty nine Baptist church, and you know,
outside of pedo Baptism and a couple other things, there
was really not a lot of difference. And even that seminary,
that seminary had had a cultural center that would blast
right way, you know, would attack Bill Clinton, would attack
even when George W. Bush came in and you started
seeing liberal things come out of his mouth. They would
attack it. And then I dropped out. I had just
a terrible falling out in my church, and I was
I just left for a while. And then when I
went back and I look back and I'm like, not
only is the Southern Baptist Convention completely I mean cocked basically,
but then I look at the PCA, which I thought
would never for Yeah, I'm like, there's no way. I
mean I I took classes with Archie Sproll. It's like,
I'm like, how did how did this happen? You know?
And you know, and you know, I understood from a
from a young age that there was a lot of
things happened in the Vatican Two that were you know,
no stretat was just awful. I just want to just
you know, basically say invoking at anti Semitism and saying
that anti invoking anti Semitism without even defining it. So
it were you look around and I guess anyone who's
in church right now, anyone who is a defender who
looks at God's kingdom and says God has a kingdom
on earth and needs defending, It needs building is has
there's no real home for them. You can't look at
a denomination and go I mean there are Orthodox right now,
you Orthodox or screaming at me, that's fine, but there's
no denomination that you can look at and you can go.
They're looking for looking to defend God's kingdom on earth
as a whole. Am I wrong? Corey?
Speaker 2: You have those who are attempting to defend God's kingdom
as a whole, but you also have really it's a
generational divide. And the big reason for that is that
the baby boomers. And I always give this caveat when
I say this gen X doesn't exist. You have older
gen X basically their baby boomers, and have younger gen X.
They're millennials. You can choose. That's the great thing about
being gen X. You gotta choose which one you want
to be if you're in the middle. So, and granted,
I mean obviously within generations there are also divisions. They're
good and bad millennials. I'm not going to say my
generations without problems, certainly, and then zoomers are their own thing.
But for the baby Boomers, they grew up with all
of this quite frankly, Marxist propaganda, and they bought into
a lot of it. Because Satan was building up his case.
He knew exactly what he was doing. He didn't attack
the foundations of the doctrines of the church anymore because
he tried that before. He did that with higher criticism.
He did that with the radicals of the sixties. He
made some headway on that, but he'd already taken the
mainline churches with that form of attack. He'd taken all
the people that he could with those sorts of attacks
on the church, the attacks on doctrine, the ancient heresies,
revived again arianism and all these things. And so he
took a different tactic. He used the Marxist subversion of
the reality of the nations in order to build up
this false postwar consensus and then propagandize that in the West.
Because this was also a thing in the USSR. It
was openly part of state policy to subvert the reality
of race and nation identical terms. That was part of
their goal, because you can't create this internationalist government if
you have these racial distinctives, because you're going to naturally
have divisions if you recognize the boundaries God has set
both geographical and in terms of DNA, obviously there's biology
involved here as well. But in order to subvert the West,
he changed that propaganda into what we see in the
Civil rights movement, and so that became part of the
mythos for the baby boomer generation that they'd overcome this
prejudice and ignorance of the past and they were creating
a better world. And that seeped into the Church because
obviously baby boomers are the ones in positions of authority
in the Church. That's how it naturally works. One generation
hands off authority to the next. If you fail to
train that next generation and the truth, you're going to
have a disaster on your hands when they take the
reins of power. And so that's what we have seen
in all of the major denominations. You have these baby
boomers who have all of these ideas they acquired in
the sixties during the Civil rights era, and they're attempting
to shoehorn them into Christianity and say, well, when Christ
says justice, what he really means is social justice. And
they may not use that term because they've been trained
by whatever news station they watch to think that social
justice is bad, but racial justice is good, it's the
same thing. These are Marxist terms. There's no daylight between them,
and so they're bringing this into the church. And that's
why you'll see things like the SBC putting out their
document condemning the alt right and condemning anti Semitism and
condemning racism, literally using Marxist language that anyone who has
studied the Marxist theorists, the Marxist ideology will recognize immediately.
You see it for what it is. But these men,
because they took it over the course of decades from
basically every source available to them. It was in the
news media, whether it was print or radio or television,
they're using Marxist terms that they don't recognize as Marxist
because they aren't familiar with the actual source material. Satan
has done a very good job subverting all of the
institutions of society, and now finally he's coming for the
church because there are more souls that he can take
in the church if he can continue this sort of subversion.
And so you have these men who believe that they
in many cases many of these baby boomers, think that
they're actually fighting for the church, that they're fighting for
the faith, but they're not. They're actually fighting for the
other side because they are using all the arguments of
Satan to subvert God's ordering of creation. And they think
that because they won these battles in the past, and
this is particularly a problem in the l lcms, they
think because they one at seminex kind of that what
they're doing is right, what they're doing is good. Well,
we beat the liberals once, we can beat them again.
But they're fighting the wrong battle. They don't have the
tools and they don't know what they're doing. So they're
fighting for the other side because they think that, well,
they're not saying that doctrine is wrong, but if you
define your terms in a way that is contrary to Christianity,
it doesn't matter if you're saying all the right words.
You'll see that in many of the false theologians. They'll
say they believe in the resurrection, but then if you
actually look into what they say, they deny every last
tenet of what Christianity teaches about the resurrection. So you
have to look at what these men actually believe, what
they're actually teaching. And we just don't have competent leadership
in most of the church bodies today. And this is
the case, whether it's Roman, Catholic, or Presbyterian or Lutheran.
We have all of these men who are ill equipped
for the battle at hand. They may be equipped for
past battles. They can point out arianism, they can say
that's false, that's an ancient heresy. I know how to
refute that, But they don't know how to deal with
the problems we face today. And it's the same sort
of thing that we see in society at large. Because
many of these problems. If you I'll go back to
the example of arianism again, if you deal with arianism,
we have all the writings of many church fathers dealing
explicitly with that issue, and we have the creeds. We
can just point to these things that we have and
say this was refuted, here's why it's wrong. This is
spelled out in the history of the church. We know
exactly what this is and why we are not that.
But many of the things that are being attacked today,
we have no writings from the church fathers on them.
We have some things that touch on them tangentially, but
we don't have a church father who directly addresses transgenderism.
You don't have church fathers who write extensively on the
reality of biological sex because there wasn't really a thing
for them back then. Their knowledge of biology was or medial,
for instance. But you have these problems that are present
in society today for which we don't have ready answers,
in part because it was totally unthinkable. At no other
point in history would anyone have ever stood up and said,
I was born a man, but now I'm a woman,
except in a handful of societies around the world which
had the idea of a third gender. You had that
in India and some of the Amerindian cultures, but in
European culture that was utterly unthinkable. No one would ever
They would say you're insane and lock you up. But today,
because so much of the foundations of Western civilization have
already been eroded, have already been subverted, someone can stand
up and say that. And most Christians are caught flat footed,
particularly pastors. They don't know how to actually respond to
these things. Part of it is because they're ill versed
in the scriptures, and part of it is because they're cowards,
quite frankly, because if you look at scripture, it's very
clear man and woman He created them. That's the end
of it. Scripture is clear God has spoken on the issue,
but these pastors don't want to speak to it for
many reasons. Partly they don't want the negative attention from society,
and partly they don't want to endanger their irs classification.
But you have men who are just not suited to
the task they have taken up. And quite frankly, they
should be terrified because Scripture is very clear that teachers,
those in positions authority in the church are going to
receive the stricter judgment. And these men are teachers in
the church. They are going to receive that judgment, and
they aren't willing to actually speak God's word because they're
terrified of men. And Scripture is very clear about you
should be terrified of God who can cast body and
soul into hell, not men who can only destroy the body.
We have so many false and cowardly teachers in the church,
and it makes the church look terrible, and it exacerbates
the problem because having those men in positions of authority
drives out the young men we need in the church.
And in this case, I'm speaking relatively men you know,
forty five and younger or so fifty and younger, whatever
it happens to be. We need those men in the
church because those men are the next generation of leadership.
Those men are the ones who can turn around the
problems in the church. If you walk into a church
and it is just women, that church is already dead.
It's not dying, it's dead. If you don't have men
in your church, you don't have a church. Because God
is very clear, men are the leaders. Men are the head.
You cannot have a headless body that is alive. And
so if you have no men in your church, it
is a headless church and it is not alive. And
that is what we see today. You have these feminized
pastors and other teachers who do not speak the word
of God truthfully, do not speak the word of God forcefully,
and basically just bend over backwards for whatever the women
in their congregation want them to do, because they're not
serving as actual heads, they're not serving as shepherds of
their flock because they aren't willing to do it, because
they're weakened, cowardly men, partly because they were ill trained
at their seminaries, because the seminaries are full of the
radicals from the sixties who weren't all cast out, or
in the case of the LCMS, we cast out the radicals,
but we didn't get rid of their students. When you
don't get rid of the students, or at least vet
the students to make sure they weren't corrupted, all you're
doing is delaying the problem by one generation. And so
all of these false ideas seep into society, and from
society they wind up seeping into the church, and it
becomes a vicious cycle. And now you have men in
leadership in the church who are attempting to justify the
evils of society because they don't know how to refute them.
Speaker 1: I gues this can be either one of you can
take this talk about how you're here saying that they've
opted the ways of the world, the most of the
ways of the woke. I know woe has been docked,
and I'm sure people have who've been speaking out of
the ansays they've tried to get them fired. I've said
this about one of the reasons I stopped being a
libertarian is because I saw that libertarianism was infiltrated by
the not only the woke, but right from the start
by a really liberal kind of mindset, are really very
liberal kind of ideas, and I'm not even saying classical liberal,
I'm saying liberal kind of ideas. And then you saw
like the Libertarian party turn into this party that was,
you know, just we need trans writes kind of thing.
All of a sudden, these non collectivists all turn into collectivists.
So you talk about the you know, the kind of
attacks and the personal kind of attacks that you've both
had to suffer, and you both can take turns on
this one.
Speaker 3: You know, the problem with focusing everything on liberty and
freedom as the highest good is that that is functionally
just licensed, and as long as someone is unencumbered, is
that becomes the highest moral good. And if one acknowledges
the Christian understanding of original sin and of our fallen,
sinful nature, that can only ever possibly lead to the
worst outcomes. And so one of the things that we
talk about all the time on Stone Choir is a
genealogy of ideas, particularly these ideas, you know, the things
are called woke and whatever else, these things that have
radical roots that are antithetical to Christianity today. We find
them in the hearts and minds and mouths of people
who on Sunday morning are Christians. You know, they go
to church on Sunday. But the problem is that they're
catechized the other one hundred and sixty seven hours of
the week by the world, and so whatever they're learning
in church, wherever they learned in the past, and church
in those few hours are no match for all the
TV and all the conversations with friends, and all the
movies and all the radio and all the work, you know,
training and just the general culture that we're all seeped in.
And so I think the reason that the generations have
decayed and now we're getting to sort of a revolutionary
spirit among some of the youngest, just you know, knee
jerk rebelling against the old people because everything is so bad,
is because you know, the boomers were the first to
be propagandized so heavily, and they were they had no
immunity whatsoever. They just absorbed it. It was kind of
a lightweight version of the propaganda, and because they went
along with it, it got harder. The propaganda went harder
and harder, and now it's so blatant that it's a
it's it's like a cleaver being taken to a diamond.
You know, it's getting hit and it's gonna shatter, and
you're going to go in one direction or the other.
And I think that's we see. The Zoomers are all radical.
They're either radically left or radically right. There are really
no milk toast Zoomers, you know, at least the ones
who paid any attention at all. When when we talk
on Stone quire about the genealogy of these ideas that
are causing these problems, it's to say, in our case, specifically,
to say to Christians, if you believe that you're a
Christian and you believe that racism is a sin, where
did that sin come from? You know, one of the
episodes we did in our Race series was entirely on
the history of racism, the fact they was invented, you know,
one hundred and fifty years ago. You know, the book
was written by a Jew at the beginning of the
twentieth century, specifically, as Corey was describing and what the
Soviet Union's plans were for global communism, what that Jew
wrote in the book on racism was a part of that.
It was a disillusion of all the nations in order
to make the next steps possible, and so the genealogy
of the idea that a Christian will hold up is
the highest moral good. The reason that Corey had the
you know, the hit piece in Rolling Stone and I
got docs to Antifa and had a hit piece in
my local paper wasn't because I was talking about Christianity,
although that was the underlying reason. It's because they called
it a neo Nazi podcast, which is to say, racist
and racist is the most evil thing anyone could possibly be,
whether you're secular or you're Christian. That is, you know,
that's why literally Hitler is the new Satan. There's nothing
worse than that. And so when that becomes your north
star for morality, everyone gets reoriented. The whole church gets
reoriented along this new axis. And one of one of
the things we talk about all the time is where
did these ideas come from? Because they're new ideas, they're
not ancient. These are not ideas that our forefathers would
recognize in any prior millennium, and in you know, in
most cases virtually none of this would be recognizable prior
to the Enlightenment. And so the frog is getting boiled.
And today, you know, as Corey said, the being the
last bastion of what should be the West. You know,
a faithful West should be the church. It should be
the most conservative body because if God doesn't change, then
the church doctrine shouldn't be changing either. And yet what
we find is that they're going along with everything else.
You know, the reason that the Missouri syn haddocksed me
to Antifa, they headquarters in Saint Louis transmitted by personal
information to an ANTIFA cutout for publishing, specifically because of
the episodes that we did on Stone Choir calling them
to account for their radical shift left. And what is
the go to that everyone has today? If you can
personally destroy a man's reputation, that you can make him unemployable, untouchable,
and unlovable. No one will talk to someone who's been
labeled that way. Well, one, it's an example for anybody else.
You want to get up at eat, you want to
run your mouth, look what's going to happen to you?
And two, it just separates the sort of person from
the herd, so that you're not permitted to have friends.
And that's been the next stage. What's being done to
Cory Mean, it's been happening all along. You know, Ryan
turnip Seed. He wasn't called to account for anything that
he had said. He was called to account for things
that Corey had said. He was called to repent for
not publicly condemning Corey. Is if that's a sin, whether
or not Corey's right or wrong about anything, for another
man to be held to account simply because he talked
to him online is deranged. It's completely deranged. It's beyond
any normal human behavior. And yet today it's just just
it's the it's the playbook.
Speaker 1: Corey.
Speaker 2: What we really see happening is simply the Marxist playbook
followed practically point by point. This is a Lensky is
what we see happening. All of our enemies and adversaries,
whether they are hard left, Antifa, or supposedly Christians, even
supposed Christian leaders, they're following Alinsky if you read what
he wrote, and Olinsky is obviously just parroting his father below,
but if you read what he wrote, these men are
following point by point what he says. This is the
politics of personal destruction. The goal is never to have
an actual discussion, to have a debate on these ideas,
which sometimes that is appropriate some things are so evil
that you don't really need a debate, but sometimes you
need to discuss the issues. That's never the goal for
the adversaries. For the enemies, the goal is to destroy
anyone who stands up and happens to challenge whatever the
prevailing ideology is of the day, whatever the idol they're
currently propping up, whatever golden calf they're currently worshiping. And
so if you say, where is racism and scripture as
a sin? They can't stand that because that is one
of the core tenets their new religion, that you have
to be not just not racist, but actively anti racist.
And they'll go farther than that, and they have already,
but they'll keep going. They'll keep pushing until they're actually
opposed and destroyed, quite frankly, because they don't stop. Satan
never stops. But if you attack their idols, they're going
to respond violently, and that's what they have been doing,
and that's always been the case. When you attack a
man's idols, that's how you know it's an idol. The
way he responds tells you it is an idol, and
that is what we see from these enemies. So in
my case, they basically said they excommunicated me, but they
didn't follow any of the required procedures, and so they
both violated scripture and the civil law in what they did.
It's an ongoing issue. It's not yet put to rest.
That will be I'll have more to say about that,
hopefully in the not too distant future, although bureaucracies tend
to grind slowly. But they basically barred me for from
the property by calling in the police, which is utterly
unheard of, completely ridiculous for Christians to do that unless
there's an actual legitimate threat, which obviously in my case
there's not. And I can say confidently that I know
there's no threat that they perceive, because, for instance, I
don't live that far away from my former pastor. I
helped him move into his current house. If he thought
I were a threat, he would have taken out restraining order.
He hasn't done that. The same is true for a
number of the elders. I didn't help them move into
their houses, but I know where they live. I've been
to their houses. They didn't take out restraining orders. So
any supposed argument that there was a threat, which is
what has been spread by certain pastors online clearly in
high handed violation of the Eighth Commandment. It's obviously all false,
provably so. But they barred me from the property despite
the fact that the constitution and by laws of First Lutheran,
the church I was attending, say that even in the
case of those who are excommune, and this is in
all caps in the original document, which written by German Lutherans,
it tells you something. If Germans were going to use
all caps, even if you're excommunicated, you are cordially invited
to attend all divine services. And yet they called the
police on me. So you can see the animating spirit
of these men. It is not the spirit. They have
a different spirit. Indeed, and one hundred percent came down
from on high. It came down from Synod because Synid
responded to our critique of the Large Catechism with annotations
and contemporary applications. I want to be clear, that's not
the Large Catechism. Luther's Large Catechism is a static document.
It was created by Luther. It's part of the Confessions.
It's unchanging. What they did was they added a bunch
of essays and annotations in order to completely subvert it. Basically,
they created like a proto version of the Talmud for
the LCMS, because what the Talmud does is completely subverts
the Torah. As we have said previously in episodes of
Stone Choir, one of the sayings amongst those who study
the Talmud is that what Torah forbids, Talmud permits. And
that is simply what the purpose of the Talmud is.
It's to subvert all of God's rules by pillpoll to
get around them, and in most cases just outright lying.
The same thing is true of many, if not most,
of the essays in that supposed new version of the
Large Catechism. The goal of that document and this document
is really the crux of why they decided to go
after us, because we threw a wrench into their plans.
We brought it to the attention of more people what
they were attempting to do, because we saw clearly what
they were doing. It's the same playbook you see everywhere.
They bring in this document and say this isn't doctrine,
this is just a discussion, this is an application, these
are for study these issues. Well, it's not, because it's
already on the syllabus at the seminary as a required
document for future pastors. They are currently training men with
this document. They have basically made it into the doctrine
of the LCMS and they will just push it through
and the next version will be even worse. And so
that's why they hate us and hate what we have done,
because we're opposing their evil. What they're doing is openly
and high handedly evil, and they are going to go
after an attempt to destroy personally any man who stands
up against them, and that's why many are not willing
to do it because there's a very real cost. There's
going to be a cost personally. There's going to be
a cost financially in terms of your your finances, your
social relationships. There's going to be a cost if you
stand up and speak the truth. And that's always been
the case in human history. Sometimes it's more costly than others.
Certainly today it has a higher cost. And there's also
obviously safety concerns either the sort of people who try
to swamp, and they've hinted at that online that their
goals are to do that to woe and me, and
so there's going to be a very real cost. But
At the same time, Christians are not permitted to avoid
speaking the truth just because there's a cost associated with it.
This is one of those cases where you are required
to speak the truth about God and his word regardless
of cost, because this is a matter of the faith.
If it's a matter of something that is tangential or
not related to the faith, may be parallel to the faith,
it's left to wisdom. There's some matter of wisdom here,
which is how you say the truth. But whether or
not you speak the truth is not left to the
discretion of the individual Christian. When you are called on
to confess the truth of God, the truth of Christ,
you have to speak that truth. The consequences are in
God's hands. He will permit or not permit as he
sees fit. And so that's why we are willing to
speak these issues, why we are willing to address these
things in the episodes of Stone Choir and elsewhere, even
if there is a cost to it, because we feel
like we don't have a choice, because we know we
don't have a choice. Well, we do have a choice,
because there's always that choice, heaven or hell. You can
choose to be an apostate. We're not going to choose
that we're going to speak the truth regardless of the
personal cost, and so we are going to be attacked
by those who are attempting to subvert the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it appears what they're doing by inserting notes and
commentary into with that catechism is that they are doing
exactly what happened to the evangelicals in the early nineteen
hundreds by inserting the Schofield Bible into Moody Bible College
and places like that, where they basically judaized Christianity Evangelicalism.
And it seems like they're doing the same thing. There
can say during you know, I think we I think
you guys have gone over where a lot of this
transgenderism and all these things that there's on and about
actually come from and derive from, and where the activism
for that comes from.
Speaker 2: And we've seen the same sort of thing that has
happened in decades past. In the case of the Roman Church,
you mentioned nostra Ititat, notably on the very same day
that that was issued, that is when they issued the
document that suppressed the Trent, the cult of Simon of Trent,
when they basically said that he is no longer a
saint that happened the exact same day as nostra Ititat.
And for those who aren't familiar, that was the case
of a Christian boy who was ritually murdered by the Jews.
And this was recognized for centuries by the Church as
a case of Jewish ritual murder. And because they wanted
to suppress, suppose it anti Semitism in the Church, because
they wanted to bring in Philo Semitism, they had to
get rid of Simon of Trent. Because it's very hard
to buddy up to Judaism when one of your saints
is a child who was murdered for his blood by
the Jews.
Speaker 1: And well, I guess this leads me into this. You
have people out there like and I'm not even saying
I hate the guy. I mean, I don't know him.
I've never talked to him. But Adam Green who basically
openly says that, no, Christianity hasn't been subverted by Judaism,
by by by the Jews. No, it's been a Jewish
plot from the start. So the only way that you
can that you can defeat it is Christianity has to
go away, which to me sounds like the libertarians and
the end caps who say, well, the only way to
solve this is we got to make the government go away. Okay, well,
good luck pal, all right, But it's funny that they
would say that when I don't know, Christian Christians are
openly mocked in the town square, and they've when you
look at the history of how even if you want
to invoke the Spanish Inquisition, why was the Spanish Inquisition started?
It's like the only thing that, it seems in the
last two thousand years who have stopped these people who
deny logos is the Church. Yet they want because the
Church now has become weakened, it's been attacked, and this
worldview has been adopted by so much of it, it
has to go away. But you know, as far as
I'm concerned, really, it's the only thing that stands up
against it. Comment on that.
Speaker 3: Those arguments are just I would fully agree those arguments
are just reddit to your atheism. I mean, that's any
any completely neutral look at history demonstrates how utterly false
that is. You know, the disputation of Paris under King
Louis the ninth, really, for the first time in the
West laid bare just precisely how evil the talent is
and therefore how evil those who practice what it teaches are,
which was the bulk of the Jewish community in those
places nearly a thousand years ago. You know. To say
that that Christianity has been a Jewish plus to topple
the West pretends that what the West had, what Europe
was before Christianity, was better than what it is now.
And the same people will say that sort of thing.
Want to point to, you know, the cathedrals and the
art and all the things that are the highest achievements
of Europeans in history. It's basically all at the very
peak of Christianity in the West. You know, there was
a period of time of accumulation of talent and wealth
and things that made it possible do have great works
of art. But the talent and the beauty was not
not only created in those places by Christians, but it
was done for the glory of God first and foremost.
You know, SAME's true of the exploration of the world.
You know, regardless of the politics of the man who
landed on foreign soil, he always brought the cross with him.
The conquest of the Americas and of Africa was done
in the name of Christ. And that's one of the
that's one of the things that makes the world makes
Satan seethe so much today, is that the loss of
the so called Global South, these populations who for literally
thousands of years communed with demons uninterrupted, and so when
European Christians showed up, they found horrors that were indescribable.
You know, they would just vomit on contact in many
of the things that they saw, and they described it
when they when they sent descriptions home of the godless
depravity of those people. Europe was never that bad, but
that was only because we were Christianized, we would have
been on that path. And when you look at modern history,
just in the last century or two, these subversions, including
things like the Schofield Bible I was financed by Jews.
It's always the case that you will find a connection
to the very people that guys like this Green character
are saying, Oh, it's they wanted to make Christianity better
to destroy white people. No, Christianity is the reason that
white people have something to be proud of. I mean,
there's Greece and there's Rome, and there's pride in that
sort of accomplishment. But those pagan places, when you look
at their practices, they had exposure of infants to kill them,
which is exactly what we saw this week in the UK,
murdering an infant who was sick, who might maybe could
have survived with modern treatment. It was denied her. She
was left out to die, just as Europeans did two
thousand years ago. It was Christianity that brought an end
to those sorts of practices. So while Greece and Rome
had art, they had culture, they also had rampant sodomy.
They had you know, the killing of the of the
the infirm, of the aged, all these things that Christianity
is like, No, there's actually an inherent human value in
every person, regardless of age or station in life. Even
if someone's a slave, you still can't mistreat them. You know,
Christianity didn't bring an end to slavery. It brought an
end to the mistreatment of slavery, at least when Christianity
is observed. And yeah, it's just these arguments are they're
worse than specious because they're just they fly in the
face of anything that you can look up on Wikipedia.
I think people like that should just be bullied and mocked.
There's no point even arguing.
Speaker 1: But come on, Jesus was a Jew. It comes out
of Judaism. I mean that's literally that, that's the argument.
I mean when you once you start going like I'll
start mentioning church history and they'll just default to this.
I mean, this isn't even midwig tier. This is like,
you know, eighty five iq tier. But it came matter
of Judaism. But how do you argue with that?
Speaker 2: Well, you really can't. It's the arguments are so fundamentally
unseerious and unsound. Many times. What they are it's the
word concept fallacy. They think that if I use the word,
it necessarily represents a certain concept, and that's just not
true because as you use the word determines what concept
you are referring to with the word. The reference depends
upon the person using the term. And so, for instance, historically,
when we use the word Jew to translate what is
in the Greek Judean in scripture, that was fine because
everyone knew what it meant. It didn't mean these weird
people wearing special hats wandering around and charging interest. It
didn't mean them. It meant the historical people who lived
in that region from whom Christ descended, because yes, he's
the lion of the tribe of Judah. He was not
a Jew, because when you use the term Jew in
the modern context, what you mean is it inherent two
or someone who is culturally steeped in Judaism. And Judaism
is a modern heresy. It is a modern false religion
because it is based on the Talmud, which was only
completed in the five hundreds. It's significantly younger than Christianity.
And it is again a false religion that is contrary
to that is hostile to Christianity. It has been from
the beginning. And so these men are ignorant on so
many levels. They don't know the history, they don't know
the meaning of the terms. Because they aren't arguing in
good faith. These men are arguing in bad faith because
they want to tear down Christianity because for whatever reason
they hate Christianity. In some cases it's just because they're idiots,
but in other cases there's malice.
Speaker 1: Who else who else hates Christianity.
Speaker 2: It's really just Pagans well, and the supposed neo Pagans,
Jews and Jews exactly. And it's funny they want to
make stupid arguments. I'll make arguments too. It's not even
It's not even a stupid argument though, because look the history.
Who is the first major supporter of the Jews against Christians,
specifically Julie and the Apostate, the Roman emperor who wanted
to take the Roman Empire back to paganism. Pagans and
Jews have been cooperating across the centuries. Pagans, Jews, and
Christians have not been cooperating. Most certainly, Look at the
homilies of Saint John Christistom. Look at any pope before
the last you know one or two or three. These
are men who, by any modern standard would have been
called absolutely vile, anti Semites and ostracized from society. And
these are considered the great saints of the Church by
the entire church. This isn't even limited to one particular
tradition or denomination. Everyone agrees that John Christistom is a saint.
Everyone agrees that Gregory the Great is a saint. These
are men who are recognized by the historical church as
men who were giants of the faith, who taught the
faith truthfully. Who are saints who are now in Paradise,
and they wrote things against the Jews that, quite frankly,
make anything said by Adolf Hitler look like a playground spat.
And somehow we're supposed to believe that Christians and Jews
are friends, that we happen to get along. Do they
not recognize that the Jews pray curses upon us every
single day, many times a day, if they're traditional Jews,
at least three times a day. And somehow we're supposed
to think that, oh, we're perfectly good friends with them.
We're not. And quite frankly, Christians also play pray curses
against the Jews, because when we say Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done, that is indeed polemical against the
enemies of Christ, which certainly includes the Jews, who hate
Christ more than anything else. He is the only thing
they hate more than whites.
Speaker 3: I think one of the crucial things that we try
to emphasize on Stone Choir when we're talking about that
particular timeline of history is that Adam was not a Jew.
You know, six thousand years ago, Adam was a man.
There's no such notion. And Adam was a Christian because
the proto Evangelium was given to him in Jenesis three fifteen,
promising the Messiah. And throughout the course of history, God
progressively revealed more of the prophecies of the Messiah. So
Noah walked with God by faith. There was no Abraham.
Yet there was no Isaac or Jacob. There was no
man named Israel. They were just men, and they were
Christians because they had faith. Abraham had faith and it
was counted to him as righteousness. Abraham was not a Jew.
He was his grandson, who was named Israel. Now the
lineage is trace there, but the Israel, the lineage of
Muslims or the Arabs, is trace to them as well.
So to call Abraham a Jew is necessary to also
call him an Arab. It's just nonsense. He was, He
was Abraham, He was a son of Her. I believe.
So it's it's important because when you separate the belief
in the promise of the Messiah, whether it's forward looking
as it was for Adam and Noah and Abraham. And
indeed Mary, Mary was a Christian because when the Angel
came to her and announced the blessing of the Messiah
to be bestowed in her womb, she knew what he
was talking about. It wasn't it wasn't out of left field.
She believed the promises that have been transmitted through time
in the Jewish culture and in the Jewish the the
faith that they preserved, and there were indeed among the Judeans,
among the Jews of Jesus day, there were people who
were Christian because when he showed up and he preached, like, yes,
this is the Messiah, he did what the what the
the tana said it would do, and he's doing these
miracles that God said he would do. This is the Messiah.
This is the one who was promised. They were Jews
because of their ethnicity, but they were Christians because of
their belief. And the whole jewday Christian myth that has
emerged only in the last century is specifically erasing everything
that happened from six thousand years ago to four thousand
years ago and pretending that the two thousand years prior
to Christ's birth that was the period of Israel, has
anything to do with what came before it. It wasn't
Jews who gave us the Messiah. It was God. God
gave the promise to Abe to Adam, passed it through Abraham,
and then delivered it through Mary and we had Jesus.
That is God's work. It's not the work of a people.
And the fact that God chose a nation to be
the vessel both for the promises and for the delivery
of those promises, is to God's glory. I mean, they
were some of the most irascible, miserable people ever recorded.
They did things that there's no other group of people
who would have murdered Jesus when he came along, producing
infinite quantities of food and raising the dead. Nobody else
would have murdered him except for them, because they were
necessary to to be them, their evil selves, so that
the prophecy could be fulfilled. But it doesn't get them
off the hook. So there's no legacy of Judeo Christian
we are. It's six thousand years of Christians in heaven today,
and some of them were Jews prior to Jesus day.
Once he showed up, you either stopped being a Jew
or you had no hope of salvation.
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that there are Orthodox Christians, Catholics, Evangelicals,
Liturgical Protestants who listen to your show. What do you
attribute that to the fact that you have this? You
have an ecumenical audience.
Speaker 2: There's almost a bit of irony in it because particularly
from may end, but from woes as well. To a
certain extent, I'm a little polemical when it comes to
distinctives across denominations and traditions. But ultimately, as Christians, we
can recognize each other even if we have our disagreements.
We are brothers in disagreement, and I don't view those
in other traditions as enemies. They are brothers. I view
them as being in error because we disagree on certain doctrines.
But the things that we are discussing on Stone Choir
are by and large things on which all Christians agree.
Now they are going to be exceptions. We did recently
do episodes on baptism in the Lord's Supper. We're very
clearly going to disagree on those. We're going to agree
they're important. I would say that even the Baptists are
going to agree that baptism is important. We're going to
disagree on what they do and what the nature of
these things are. Because those who are magisterial Protestants are
going to believe that they are sacraments and agree with
both the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox on that
insofar as it goes. But we are discussing matters that
are fundamental to the Christian faith. They are things that
are not necessarily doctrinal distinctive. Because whether or not you
think that baptism now saves you, you can probably agree
that having Christian rulership of your country is better than
what we have today. You can agree that not charging
interest is a matter that is addressed in Scripture and
is something on which all Christians can and should agree.
And so there's this wealth of issues on which we
as Christians can agree, the basics of the faith, certain
things about Christian society, and so there's partly those reasons
are part of why people can listen to Stone Choir
even if they disagree with us on some doctrine in
some theology. But there's also the aspect we're the only
ones doing it, and so where else are they going
to turn for the information presented as it is in
the way it is, there are not that many options.
And so even if we happen to be Lutheran and
we have a Presbyterian in our audience, he's going to
listen to us, He's going to disagree with us. On
the specifics of the sacrament of the table and some
other things. Obviously predestination to some degree, but he's going
to agree with agree with what we say on ninety
percent of issues. And so because of the fact that
we're willing to say the things we're willing to say
in the way we're willing to say them, I think
that's why we have the ecumenical audience, because they recognize
that even where we disagree, we are all brothers in Christ,
and ultimately the differences in doctrine and theology, dogma, what
have you, will be resolved in Paradise. We won't disagree
there because we'll know the truth and we'll certainly have
God right there to give us an answer. Here and now,
in time, we are going to continue to disagree on things,
and sometimes yes vehemently, sometimes in a little heated that
will be polemics, and I don't think that's unbecoming. Americans
by and large have developed this. You can call it genteel,
but it's not even really that it's effeminate. They have
developed an effeminate way of dealing with disagreement. And so
you'll have people who will realize they disagree with someone
and just totally avoid it, or they'll so called agree
to disagree, they'll avoid the issue instead of meeting it
head on and addressing it. Men deal with disagreement by
talking to each other, by arguing with each other, and
sometimes in a little bit of a heated fashion. That
is how men argue. That is how men address disagreements.
We're willing to do that on stone choir. We're entirely
willing to tell part of the audience you're wrong. This
issue is wrong. Here it is in scripture. This is
why you're wrong. We're not going to say, well, you
can some people think and some others think, but really no,
We're going to say, here is what we believe, this
is why we believe it, Here is what you believe.
When we're going to characterize the other side as best
we can. We're not going to make straw men, and
then we're going to address why we think it's wrong.
And that is historically and that is today how they should.
But it is historically how Christians and how men disagreed
with one another. You have that even in pagan cultures. Historically,
the ancient Greeks didn't dance around the issue. They would
come out and talk with each other about these issues,
and for various reasons, in American culture, some of that
has fallen by the wayside. Partly it has come from
the academy because of the way that academic debate has
taken place in the US. You actually have a little
bit less of this in some of the continental academic culture,
because you still have insults in academic papers on the continent,
which is totally foreign to Americans, the idea of insulting
someone in a formal paper. But that's fine over there.
So we have this weird culture in the US where
we've lost the ability to confront each other. And that's
just alien to men in general, and it's also particularly
alien to Christianity. Scripture is clear, we are to confront
each other when we believe that a brother is in error,
and then together we research the scriptures, we search the
scriptures and find the solution to the issue. And yes,
it may seem like some of these problems are intrat
intractable or unsolvable because they've been ongoing for centuries. Lutherans
and the Reforms have been at each other for five
hundred years, and even more so than Lutherans and Roman Catholics.
We tit for tat every so often, exchange things back
and forth, but really the Lutherans and the reform to
have just been at it constantly for five hundred years.
So it seems like there's no solution. But that doesn't
mean that you stop. You still discuss the issues, you
still address the points of the other side, because that
is what men are supposed to do. And so we
have this listenership because that's what we're doing and almost
no one else is willing to do it in this
particular space.
Speaker 3: And we specifically tackled subjects that get you canceled, that
make people hate you. You know, there's there's not a
lot of fluff in our catalog because we're not going
to do much coverage of things that have been hashed out.
You know, the episodes we did on communion and baptism
were really exceptions because we had a lot of people
asking what a Lutherans believe about this stuff, because you know,
most people have never heard of Lutherans, were never met
one like you until seven years ago. You never met
a conservative Lutheran. That's something Lutherans are absolutely terrible for,
and it's it's unforgivable. It's just it's a wicked thing
that we were given an inheritance of defensible theology and
then forgot to tell anybody else. We just sit around
on our laurels, happy with ourselves that we got all
this stuff right, not because we're bright, but because somebody
handed us a five one year old book that's not
the Christian life. So the subjects that we tackle are
things that you like. Today's episode was against the idolatry
of capitalism. That when you look at the things that
are held up as being capitalism and subtract the historic
falsehoods from the definition, what you're left are things that
are on scriptural harm to neighbor, almost exclusively, you know.
So you know, in the intro we talked about you know,
there's this binary thinking that everyone's been programmed with. Oh
you don't like capitalism, what are you a socialist? It's like, oh,
you don't like Trump, you must be a Biden supporter. Like, no, man,
I'm way on the outside the spectrum from Trump that
you can't approach subjects like that. And yet that's the
way pretty much everything and discourse today goes. So we exist,
you know now that we're neither of us have families.
There's there's nothing that can be done to us that
won't simply harm us personally, and we're willing to bear
that cost because the alternative is for no one to
be speaking clearly about these things. I think one of
the things we do well is that we're able to
take a relatively complex subject and presented in a way
that someone who even disagrees with us can at least
get the gist of what it is we're saying, and
they if you disagree with what we've said, you understand
why you disagree. There's not confusion because we were very
clear as much as possible with terms. We don't want
to engage in some of the historic errors that have
occurred where people try to pretend to agree. You know
something that after Luther died, malank and did with the
Lutheran Confessions, he tried to change wording and get people
to agree that, you know, the Reformed and Lutherans actually
believe the same thing about the sacrament of the altar
when we don't. But if you redefine words in such
a way that everyone can say, oh, yeah, I'm sure
we're on the same page, that's nonsense. It's not true.
There's the number of men who are capable of speaking clearly,
and the intersection of that with the number of men
who are willing to speak clearly is is a vanishingly
small set. And so, like Cory said earlier, God has
given us these abilities. And as far as I see
like this is, this is what I'm going to do
until I'm not able to do it anymore. I don't
particularly enjoy it, but I don't care. You know, if
it's if it has to be done, it has to
be done. That's a sense of duty is incumbent upon
a man who has a gift, whatever it is. If
you're if you were only good at one thing, don't
waste that thing. In the case record, we're good to
lots of different things. Unfortunately, we're able to kind of
bring a lot of them to bear on this particular task.
Speaker 1: Well, let me bring up four episodes in particular that
I've recommended to a bunch of people because I think
they're very in depth. You did four episodes on the Jews,
starting way back in history and coming up to post
World War two. What compelled you to do that? Why
did you Why did you think that needed to be
put out there.
Speaker 2: In part, that was necessary because we were building up
to we've actually done a episodes on that really because
the episode on dispensationalism is effectively a continuation of the
series on the Jews, and that's part of why we
did it. When you have modern live heresies in the church,
it is in part necessary to address the historical context
so that people have something to grasp, some understanding of
how we got here and why we got here, because
dispensationalism in and of itself doesn't make any sense. Where
did this thing come from? What are these claims? If
you understand, as we went over very early on in
the podcast, the genealogy of ideas, if you go all
the way back and find a wicked tree, the fruit
is wicked as well, because an evil tree produces evil fruit,
a good tree produces good fruit. And so if you
search all the way back, for instance, with dispensationalism, and
you find that the roots of that tree are in
Judaism and Zionism and Marxism and all of these evils,
you know for a fact that dispensationalism is evil. You
can't possibly say that it's a good thing because an
evil tree will not produce good fruit. Scripture is abundantly
clear on that, and so we went over these issues,
this history of the Jewish people, because it is vitally
important for modern Christians to understand. For instance, Jesus was
not a Jew. A Jew and a Hebrew are different things.
When you say Israelite, that means something different from Israeli.
And you have many modern Christians who have no idea
what these things mean, and so they have this just
absolute mud of ideas in their head that they've got
from various propaganda outlets, and they don't know how to
understand this information. They don't know what the Christian faith
actually teaches on these subjects, and part of it is
just history. Obviously went over the rebellions against Rome and
the fact that they were basically constantly murdering people throughout
the history of their exile and their occupation by Rome,
their subjugation by Rome, which was a punishment from God.
Scripture is again clear on that point. And so if
you don't have the history, you don't have the context,
you wind up falling for every Charlatan, for every deceiver
who comes along with some if not new then at
least repackaged heresy. And if you're steeped in Church history
and you understand the history of this people in this region,
you understand the actual teachings of Scripture couched in the
context in which they must be couched to be understood correctly,
you will never fall for dispensationalism because dispensationalism constantly conflates
categories that are distinct categories, the biggest example being the
modern nation state of Israel and Old Testament Israel. They
aren't the same. One is not a continuation of the other.
Jew and Israelite are not the same. One is not
a continual of the other, except in so far as
some of the modern Jews are a degenerate apostate descendant
group from the ancient Israelites. To a certain degree, they've
been intermixed in large part in part due to God's judgment.
He took them into captivate into captivity variously under the
Assyrians and the Babylons, and then the Romans, and then
destroyed them in seventy a d. You need the context
to understand the Christian faith. Yes, you can understand the
basics without the history, and without the context, it is
perfectly fine, It is perfectly possible to have a very
simple Christian faith. So, for instance, the mentally disabled can
still be Christian without knowing all of this history. But
knowing the history prepares men to stand up and refute
heresies when they hear them. So if they have a
false preacher who stands up and says the Jews are chosen,
if you don't know the scriptures and you don't know
the history, you will not know how to respond to
that man, and then you're going to fail. You're going
to fall down in your duty as a man, particularly
if you're a father or a teacher, where it is
your duty to refute that false teacher so that those
under your care, those entrusted to your care by God,
don't fall for that false doctrine. And so we did
those episodes that the men listening to the podcast will
be prepared to address these ideas because they come up constantly,
particularly right now when there's a war going on over
in that part of the world, and you have a
huge chunk of the supposed right wing in the US
and to a smaller degree but still a significant degree
elsewhere saying that we have to support Israel because as Christians,
it's our duty, which is just absolutely false. They're not
our brothers by blood or by faith. They are haters
of God. They hate God more than any other people
in all of history. They despise Christ, they curse Christ,
they teach in their Talmud that he's boiling an extra
for all of eternity. There have never been a people
who hate God more than the modern Jews. And yet
we have supposed Christians in the US who are saying that, oh, well,
we have to support them simply because they claim to
be an extension of Old Testament Israel, and because of
is of Jesus, of various passages in scripture, not least
of all the one hundred and forty four thousand Revelation,
which is a symbolic number representing all believers throughout all time.
It is not literally one hundred and forty four thousand Jews.
So that's why we went over these issues, because you
have to have the context, you have to have the
ammo to fight the modern battle, and the modern battle
right now for the Church in large part, yes, they're
a handful of them. We're fighting on many battlefields because
Satan is kind of doing he seems to think that
he has an advantage right now, which arguably he does,
and so he's pushing that advantage. He's going to press
the advantage as best he can. But this is a
major one, because if you get this one wrong, so
much else, so much other evil flows from this mistake.
You have to understand the place of the Jews in
the history, what it means to be a Jew in
the ancient sense and the modern sense, and what we
as Christians should do with relation to the modern Jews.
And quite frankly, in summary, what we should do is
oppose them because they're evil and they hate God, not
support them and keep sending them weapons.
Speaker 3: We mentioned, I think in that series that prior to that,
we've done about thirty six episodes, and in at least
a third of them we had also mentioned Jews. And
it wasn't because we hate these people for racial reasons
or we hate them at all. It's because whenever we
look at problems in the West, whenever we look at
problems in the Church, we inevitably find Jews at the
nexus of the issue. You know, the episode on feminism,
the origins of feminism, The origins are not explicitly Jewish,
but the entire twentieth century history is when we did
the episode on Michael Martin Luther King Junior, the Marxist Agitator,
it was mostly a list of Jewish names. I meane
the joke that is basically reading a Jewish telephone book,
because so many of the men who were influencing what
that man did publicly in this country were of this
race and of this religion. And it's inextricable, you know,
the one. You know, the fact that you can have
an entire category and Wikipedia of Jewish atheists is a
demonstration that is not principally religious. It's principally racial. And
whether or not it's an ethnic Jew who practices the
religion or not, they're all steeped in a culture that
has this hatred of God is an inheritance. So the
vehemence with which the orthodox Jew hates and curses Christ
is matched only by the nonpracticing Jew, the atheist Jew.
They deny that God exists, but they hate him. You know.
It's what C. S. Lewis was like when he was
a teenager, except none of them have managed outgrow it.
And so yeah, a lot of our episodes have dealt
with that again, it's a hop on issue who there
are not many people who will show their face in
public who will say, here are all the things that
are wrong with the Jews. And we did four episodes
to cover four different aspects of it, and we talked
about and you mentioned the timeline, there's Hebrews, Israelites and Jews.
We talked about it in scripture. We talked about what
happened in the immediate aftermask of the murder of Christ.
And one of the reasons that we want to tackle
that subject in particular is that I've personally sat in
the pews and listened to Lutheran pastors literally changed the
text of a reading from the Jews to the Pharisees
because they refuse to attribute to the race of people
as Scripture does. The evil that is done, not because
it's anything that they get from scripture, but it's what
they get from their catechisis in the world. It's a
cultural imposition. And these are like, these aren't left wing
pastors talking about their guys were, but they made them
so uncomfortable. They knew they would get some static for
saying the Jews killed Christ. From the pulpits they saw
the Pharisees did it is that sort of sleight of
hand that you know, these very small things that you know,
start in seminaries and they have these little bits and
pieces and sermons. It only takes a generation before no
one can think the opposite. And the problem is that
the opposite in this case is what Scripture says.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: As E.
Speaker 1: Michael Jones points out, the Gospel of John mentions Jews,
I think seventy two times and seventy one times, it's
a it uses a pejorative. So yeah, and I think
anyone who's looked into the history of it knows how
a lot of Jews feel about John chapter eight. I
mean they that it infuriates them that Christ is basically
saying thereof the devil.
Speaker 3: And it's a statement that's it's reiterated in the in Revelation,
the Epistles from Jesus Christ to the Seven Churches, and
Revelation two nine and three nine. He calls them the Jews,
the ethnic Jews, the race of those people, the Synagogue
of Satan, which is a phrase that gets you insta
band on Twitter if you use it, even Elon's Twitter typing,
Synagogue of Satan will get your posts deleted and you
get a strike for it.
Speaker 1: I got away with it. It's still up. I don't
know how. I don't know how I'm pulling off some
of the stuff that I'm You must be in a session.
I definitely.
Speaker 2: There seems to be a jubilee right now. We'll see
how long it lasts, hopefully for a while so we
can get some good done. But you very clearly have
two competing groups in scripture. You have the Synagogue of
Satan and you have the Church of Christ. And that
is again part of why we went over this issue
because the term Israel confuses many modern Christians because this
is the word concept thing. Again, it depends on what
the term is referring to. The referent matters, and so
when you say Israel, well, do you mean Jacob, do
you mean Old Testament Israel? Do you mean the Israel
of God, which is to say, the Church. Do you
mean modern Israel, which is a geopolitical thing, not anything
to do with our religion, not anything to do with
the truth. And dispensationalism, for instance, relies on flattening all
of that and confusing people by not clearly delineating which
one is meant you have two competing groups. Satan has
his high priests, those are the Jews, and Christ has
his sheep, the Church. If you don't divide these groups,
if you don't understand the division between them, you are
going to wind up not just with a false religion,
not just with a false understanding of scripture, but you're
going to wind up with evil politics. And that's what
we see to They are very real consequences of getting
these things wrong. Yes, of course there's the consequences to
your eternal soul personally, but there are the societal consequences
where we have an entire nation of people who are
supporting to the tune of billions of dollars trillions of
dollars over the many years we've supported them, a nation
full of people who base their entire culture, their entire
religion off of hating God. And then we are supposedly
saying we're going to be blessed because we support these people.
It's completely ludicrous.
Speaker 1: Here's a question for you. I wasn't even planning on
asking this question. It just came to me when you look,
and it seems that over the past month and a half,
since this whole thing started, it's one of those either
or arguments. If you're seeing the opportunity that's happening to, yeah,
tear down Israel as much as possible, tear down Zionism
as much as possible. You're on the side of the Muslims,
you know, you're on the side of Islam at this point.
Which one do you think is more of a danger
to the West?
Speaker 3: I think that I like for the next six months.
I don't have any problem with us having troops there.
I think they should be facing the other direction. I
think that we should be preventing anyone from interfering with
this battle that they started. You know, there's been I'm
thankful there's been. With the reduction of censorship on Elon's Twitter,
it's possible for people to share maps that show in
nineteen forty seven, going back many centuries, the place where
the state of Israel today is on the map was
Palestine for centuries. These people who live there, who had
their land taken are they're the victims. They're living in
an open air concentration camp. And yes they're Muslims, and
I have a problem with their religion and to the
extent that they want to be violent against my people.
We'll finish that fight when they bring it. But this
is not our backyard. This is a problem that happened
when you know, after nine to eleven, the argument was
May we got to go bomb I Rack because if
we don't fight them over there, we'll have to fight
them over here. When it wasn't the same people at all,
and it was very arguably even apart from the Israelian
Saudi connections, you have the CIA training and funding bin
Laden directly. So we mess with these people and then
when there's the historic blowback, suddenly it just it's an
excuse for the military industrial complex to make even more
money and pour out more American blood in a place
where we have no business being I You know, it's
these are always dangerous times for the online right because
they're subversive narratives that are very easily to sell to people,
and one of them is is the pro Islamic Like
I saw a tweet today from Andrew twit Tait who
is basically saying that Islam is a better choice than
trans and kids and providing that is a false dichotomy
for the West, saying like, oh, you don't want your
kids to be transill Muslims are the only ones fighting it.
That's the sort of stuff that the retarded people on
the right fall for, and it's shameful, and I abuse
them as much as I'll abuse anybody else, because it's
that's intolerably stupid. When something is false, and when something
is evil, you confront it. And if that turns out
to be racist, or it turns out to be politically incorrect, whatever, Muslims,
when they're following the Qoran correctly, are not the friends
of the West. You have to be completely ignorant of
the entire history of Europe to believe that it has
always been a religion of conquest and rape and murder.
And the fact that there are lib Muslims today who
don't want to do those things doesn't change the nature
of the religion because they behave as they've been taught.
When they're a minority, they will act in one way.
As soon as they're majority, a switch flips and they
will impose taxes on non Muslims and all the other things.
So it's a political system inextricably linked to a religion,
and it is both a competing enemy religion and is
a competing enemy political system. Now that doesn't mean we
topple or on. I don't care. Let the Persians be Persian.
I wish they were Persian again instead of Iranian. I
think when the Iatolas took over again, you know, we
were heavily involved in that crap. We keep going over
there and messing with these people for good or ill,
and then more Americans have to die to clean up
a mess. I don't It is complicated, but it's very
simple what we should do. We should do nothing. And
if that means it Israel gets wiped out, well it
shouldn't have existed to begin with, which is crucially completely
separate from saying that the race of Jews today shouldn't exist.
That's not a genocidal comment. The United Nations formed the
state of Israel by stealing land from other people in
a place where literally all their neighbors hate them as
an ethnicity and as a religion. They're at enmity with
everyone around them, but the un chose to put them there.
So yeah, there's going to continue to be battles until
one side loses. That doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
Speaker 2: I don't support others either side in this conflict because,
quite frankly, I don't have a dog in the fight
insofar as the conflict spills over into the West with
if it happens to be supposed refugees or something like that,
then I have an interest. But if they're over there
killing each other, it's one pagan group against another pagan group,
I have no interest. They both hate God, they both
are not Christian. They're not my brothers by blood or
by faith. I don't care what they're doing over there. Yes,
what Israel is doing is more evil, but I don't
think that means we have to support either side. If
we happened to give arms to the Palestinians and that
just caused more chaos for those two groups, I wouldn't
necessarily object to that, because those groups weakening each other
is good for us in so far as Israel doesn't
decide to exercise the Sampson option anyway, which is obviously
a major problem. They should not have nuclear weapons, and
under US laws, illegal for US to give them foreign
aid if they have nuclear weapons, which they've now admitted openly.
They've publicly admitted this number of times now. They used
to be coy about it. They've decided they're quite bold
these days. So now I have no interest in that
conflict and I would like us to be uninvolved in it.
But it comes back to again, it's the issue of dispensationalism,
these false ideas in the Church about what Scripture means
and what Christians are supposed to do. And to tie
this back to an earlier point, we were speaking about
Pagans earlier, and I call them pagans in the vague sense,
the more expansive sense of the term. The neo Pagans
really are spiritually and intellectually just like the Jews. And
the reason for that is fairly straightforward. The Jews believe,
and they did believe. It's part of why they rejected Christ.
They believe they're saved by their blood. They believed that
this was an ethnic religion, that it was God came
down and told the Jews, you're special. I'm going to
save you. Everyone else is subhuman, and I'm going to
kill them and make them serve you. That's what they believe.
That's what they write in the Talmud and John the
bapt is very clear God can raise up for Abraham
from these stones new sons. They are not special, and
they are not saved by their blood, and they hate that.
That's one of the reasons that they hate christ. Neopagans
are the same way. They want to say that, well,
we're white and we're European, and so our blood is
so special that we are above everyone else and great
and wonderful, and we're saved by our blood, and we
should worship our ancestors and our blood. They're just doing
the same thing as the Jews for their own group.
It's no different, and that's not true. And the reason
it's not true is very simple. Truth is objective. Something
is either true or it is false. It is not
a matter of well, i'm Europeans, so this is true. No,
it's true or it's false. Either God is God or
he is not God. It doesn't matter if you're European,
or you're Indian, or you're Asian, whatever you are. God
is God because he's God. And some Neopagans don't like
that about Christianity. They'll say it's a universalist religion. It is.
Christianity is a universalist religion in terms of its claims
and in terms of its truth. If Christianity is true,
it offers salvation to all. However, it is not universalist
in the sense of destroying distinctives between and among people groups.
Because God is very clear in scripture he sets the
boundaries in the times of the nations, which means he
created the races, and he is the one who decided
in his wisdom that human beings should have races, they
should be distinct, they should be separated geographically, and that
is something that we should not seek to subvert. And
so the neo pagan idea that it's wicked or it's wrong,
that Christianity is universalist is just completely ludicrous. The laws
of logic don't depend on your race. A is a
whether you're white, black, or brown, that doesn't change. The
same is true of religious truth claims. They are true
or they are false, regardless of race. And so trying
to make an ethnic religion is just trying to do
what the Jews have been doing for millennia. It's filling Hell. Jews.
I'd rather we not fill Hell with Europeans doing the
same thing, but you know, worshiping Thor instead of worshiping
whatever various gods the Jews worship. And so I would
oppose the Neopagans because of that. But back to the
immediate question. I obviously oppose both sides because the Muslims
are ancient, hereditary enemies of the Christian name and religion.
To paraphrase the preface to the Augsburg Confession, because that
was part of what was discussed when the Lutheran Confession
was introduced. They were discussing at Augsburg what to do
about the Muslims invading Europe at the time. And the
term used in the Lutheran Confessions, and this is very
relevant today for Lutherans, particularly because it makes some Lutheran
pastors uncomfortable, which is generally good. They should be uncomfortable.
The term used is abfind, which means blood enemy. It
is an ancient, it is an hereditary enemy. It is
someone who is your enemy by blood, by race. And
that is the case historically and today for the Muslims.
They encompass a number of races. Today obviously it's the Persians,
the Arabs, and a couple others. But they are an
enemy of the West of Christianity by blood, and the
same is true for the Jews. So no, I don't
support either side because they both hate Christians. They hate Christ,
they hate God. They are my enemies because they are
enemies of all that is good and true. They are
enemies of God. As I've said many times before, I
do not have personal enemies. I don't count anyone my
personal enemy, even those who are trying to swap me
or do various other things. I would be very annoyed
if they got my dog shot, admittedly, but I don't
consider these people personal enemies because the only enemies I
have are those who are enemies of God. Because that
is what Scripture commands us to do. We are to
forgive our person personal enemies inimiki to use the Latin,
because there's a distinction here between the personal enemy and
the public enemy. And so a public enemy of your state,
you can oppose someone who seeks to destroy your people,
but the public enemies, in terms of being public enemies
of God, you are required to hate. And that is
something that is missed by so many modern Christians. They
seem to think that you just love everyone. And yes,
you show love in the sense that you pray for people,
You hope that they repent, You hope they turn to Christ.
I obviously hope that for all of the people over there.
Imagine the peace and the prosperity we'd have in the
world if we woke up tomorrow and everyone we're Christian,
we'd live in a virtual paradise as close as we
can get in this fallen world. That won't happen. Those individuals,
those nations, those peoples, those races are enemies of God,
and therefore they are enemies of individ Jewel Christians, and
we are required because they are God's enemies and he
hates them, we are required to hate them. You still
pray for them, because you can pray for your enemies
at the same time as hating them. Someone who is
seeking to destroy you, you can pray for his conversion
so that he will stop his evil, so he will
stop being wicked and stop being your enemy. But so
long as he is the enemy of your people, the
enemy of God, you are required as a Christian to
hate him, because there is no love without hate, because
to love something necessarily entails to hate that which seeks
to destroy it.
Speaker 1: If you have no objections, I think we can end
it right there. Tell everybody where they can find the
podcast and anything else you would like them too.
Speaker 3: You can find well. The podcast is available on every
of the podcast director. You can find in every app store,
every app outlet, with the exception of the episode the
Big Lie, which was on the Wholeabunga has been removed
moved from Spotify. That's the only thing we know has
been censored so far. Probably won't be the last one.
So if you do the big lie about the Hula Bunga,
the whole Holocaust, oh okay, yeah, uh, everything else, you
can find and pretych all the services. It's also a
stone hyphen choir dot com if I can just make
a brief comment on the episodes, we've as much as possible.
We try to avoid doing anything timely. There's often a
lot of coincidental timing, but we've endeavored to create a
back catalog that will be timeless. So if you listen
to a random episode and like it, I would encourage
you to start from the beginning, in part because you know,
every episode tackles something we think was important to address,
and many of them build over time, so there as
we get further and further along, there's more and more
references back to principles or points that were established in
previous episodes. So we try to make sure that each
episode will stand alone topically, but in terms of the
overall arching flow of everything we're getting across. It is
worth actually going back. And I'm not just saying that
because you know, we did it and we worked on it,
but a lot of people who have done that from
the beginning have have told us that they were very
grateful they did.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of podcasts, so you can you
know it's because it's you're ripped from the headlines. Unless
you want to go back and get the pulse of
a certain day on the calendar, there might not be
a lot of interesting content, but that will not be
the case for what we do, and there's only there's
We put up episode fifty two today, so it's an
achievable amount. I'll mention just the subject of the length,
because we were shy about it. In the first couple episodes.
We didn't know we've never well Quarrey's out a podcast before,
but specifically you know, doing Bible readings and such and
occasionally doing homilies. We didn't know how long we want
to be, and we didn't know if anyone would listen
and what they would tolerate. So the we were initially
shooting for like an hour. I think the first episode
is about seventy five minutes, and then the second one was
like ninety minutes, and then pretty quickly we did a
two hour episode and we called it at the time
a double episode. It was on election and view of Headship.
Because we thought two hours was absurd. We didn't think
anybody listened to it. It turns out that a whole
lot of people are willing to listen for two hours.
One of the things that we were good at because
I've listened to a ton of podcasts. I know what
annoys me. There's no fluff. We go straight to the point,
there's no joking around. So in two hours, you're really
going to get three or four hours of content and
a lot of other shows. So you know, it's nice
thing about a podcast. You can pick it up and
put it down. You don't have to listen to it
all in one session. But some of them are pretty long.
If you look at the two hour length and thinking
I'm not listening to that crap, give one a shot
because time will actually fly. You'll be surprised at how
quickly it goes because you're not going to be sitting
there tolerating a couple of guys just kind of shooting
the crap we we're going to bear you. There are
a lot of episodes you're gonna want to listen to
you more than once, just because there's so much information conveyed.
So that's my pitch for the for the back catalog.
It's it's all important. And as we go further along,
more and more we realize that I'm glad we got
an episode laid down because it's it turned out to
be crucial for something that we had to address next.
Speaker 1: I agree with all of that. Thanks guys, I really
appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having us