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Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the

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episodes early and ad free, head on over to Freemanbeyond

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the Wall dot com forward slash Support. I want to

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link where you can download the file and you can

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listen to it any way you wish. I really appreciate

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the support everyone gives me. It keeps a show going.

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It allows me to basically put out an episode every

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day now, and I'm not going to stop. I'm just

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going to accelerate. I think sometimes you see that I'm

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putting out two even three a day, and yeah, can't

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do it without you, So thank you for the support.

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Head on over to Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com,

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Forward slash Support and do it there. Thank you. I

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want to welcome everyone back to the Peking Jana Show

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for the first time. Got Cody Justice. Here are you doing, Cody.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well, Pete, thanks for having me on. How

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are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Doing good? Doing good? First time? You got to tell

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everybody as much about yourself as you're willing to.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we could be here forever. Yeah, I'll give a

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brief intro. So my name is Cody Justice. If you've

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seen me online, I'm the founder and the editor of

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sacer Press. We're a book publishing company. I'd say that

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we publish reformed, right wing and classic books. I use

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sort of idiosyncratic definitions for each of those words. You

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can find that on the website to find more specifically

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about what I mean. We're not like a typical book

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publisher where we just publish theology. I intentionally crafted the

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project to be broad, and so we publish theology, philosophy,

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political theory. I have intentions to publish more than that,

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so it's intentionally eclectic and broad, meant to be dynamic

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rather than a narrow niche. Our tagline is publishing the

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sacred Truth for a new Day, to renew the Christian West.

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You can go on the website to find out more

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about that. In addition to books, we also publish songs.

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These are AI generated and then art prints. Lord Willing

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in time to come. But our bread and butter is books.

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These are both physical and digital. Mostly these are republications

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of books that are in the public domain. Sometimes they're

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translated out of either Latin or, in the case of

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Caius Robrizius, out of German. Then we also publish newer books.

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So we've got several in the pipeline, and one we

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just published by my friend Michael Spangler. He's a Presbyterian pastor.

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That book is called Christian Race Realism. It's kind of

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like an introduction to the topic of race from a

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Christian perspective, not just the Bible, but also from nature

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and history. It's about two hundred and so pages, concise, clear,

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great introduction to the topic. I also do a podcast

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with Michael. It's called the Old Paths Podcast. Asked. The

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tagline for that is retrieving and applying the historic Reformed Faith.

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I promise I'm not one of those annoying, insufferable reform types.

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There's some Catholicity in the way that I hold my

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theology and such. So we do that podcast. It's been

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going on for several years. We've touched on race there

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as well. We just finished up a series responding to

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a pastor on all sorts of issues related to race

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and nations, nationality, immigration, all these sorts of questions. He

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did a five part series, and when he began the series,

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he had named my friend Michael, and he had implied

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me very clearly as well, and so we thought, well,

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we'll respond to your series, and we critiqued him and

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took it apart. And so if you're a Christian, you know,

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that's a great series to go to if you want

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to try to understand some of these things and why

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Christianity doesn't contradict nature and kind of classical view of

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anthe apology and nations and such. And then lastly, Michael

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and I just launched a publication project. It's called American Mantle.

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So that's a Protestant right wing online journal or magazine

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of sorts. So we're about two weeks into that when

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we're very excited about it. We've got I don't know,

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maybe about a dozen articles at this point, and we're

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trying to fill something of a whole that we sense.

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There are other publications out there, but they're not always

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as candid and as clear, especially in their political stance,

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and so that's something that we're trying to lead on.

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So that's a little bit about me. All this online

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stuff is not my normal work. My normal work is

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in the real world, work with my hands. I'd like

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to keep that quiet and not say too much about it. Yeah,

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I think that's a good introduction for who I am.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, So yeah, let's get down to the topic.

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Before we do that, I just want to announce to

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everybody who's watching. You should know by now that once

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I cover a subject, I pretty much move on from it.

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And I if you contact me and say, hey, that

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subject you were talking about, I know somebody else who

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you should have on to talk about it. If you

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do that, I'm either going to ignore you or block

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you because I consider it to be rude to my guests.

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So yeah, yeah, you guys know me by now. Don't

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spurg out, no spergs. If you watch my if you

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watch my live stream on the Sunday at Cody, you'll

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get it all.

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Speaker 2: I've watched off and long since last year. I think

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the first time I found you was you were on

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Contramundum last year and that's how I found you. And yeah,

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I've listened to quite a few of your episodes, and yes,

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the ones where you go after the Spurgs and I sympathize.

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I respect that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Contra Mundum was a great visit, ended ended up

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getting me written up in getting written up in a

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newspaper as a filthy anti semi naturally, thanks guys, appreciate that.

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But all right, what we're here to talk about you

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are looks like you're publishing what's the name of the book,

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the author and just jump.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so publishing Positive Christianity in the Third Reich, including

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the twenty eight Theses of the German Christians and miscellaneous

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documents of Caius Fabrisius. Quite a mouthful. The original title

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which I intended to publish was simply Positive Christianity in

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the Third Reich. And perhaps some of your audience are

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familiar with this book and have read it. It's only

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about eighty some pages. You could read it in a

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few hours, perhaps less so. I first came across that

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particular book several years ago, It'd have to be three

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or four years ago. Now. I've always been something of

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a contrarian, So I got a court order when I

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was fifteen to drop out a high school and took

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my ged went straight to work. That's kind of an

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example of that sort of contrarian streak. There are other

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things in my life as well, and part of this

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manifested in sort of doing alternative research on different things,

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starting with nine to eleven and then moving to other

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topics and eventually getting to World War two. And so

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I had come across different resources and this was one

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of them in the course of that study that I

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found online. I found it on archive dot organ. I

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read it in a day. I thought, this is an

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interesting little book, and the main thesis is something I

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have never heard from before. Essentially, the main thesis is

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that Christianity, at least the version of Christianity espoused by

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Caius Fabrizius, that's probably the best way to say his name,

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he believes that it's compatible with national socialism. I'd never

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in my life heard anything like that. I mean, recently,

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a man was just on Tucker Carlson, and Tucker Carlson

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made a passing remark in their discussion saying, well, we

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know that none of the Nazis were Christians. Like, that's ridiculous, right,

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And here's this guy I'm reading it says no, actually,

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we do Christians are part of this movement. So that's

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what got me started. I refor batted the book a

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little bit, got it ready for publication. I planned to

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launch that back in September of last year, a bit

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of a symbolic launch for those who are familiar with

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some of the history of the Third Reich. Well back then,

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with our publishing efforts, I was still linked up primarily

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with Amazon Print on Demand. We're just getting started, and

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they hemmed and hawed, took me back and forth through

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this process, approved book, disapproved it, approved it in Japan,

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and disapproved it everywhere else, and I was frustrated. And

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after that I found more resources from this author, so

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I didn't technically publish the book when I planned to. Sadly,

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and as I studied more, I found more and more

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of his documents, and essentially, over time, I just said,

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I'm going to translate these and I'm going to include

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them in the book, and it'll be a brand new book.

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It'd be something that actually no one has had possession

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of as far as I'm aware. So that's what I've done.

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So we've got his original book, which is about eighty

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some pages, and then they're about I think eight or

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nine other smaller works included by the same man, by

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Caius Fabrizius. So these works span i think from about

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the year nineteen thirty three all the way to forty six,

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after the war had seen least in Europe. And so

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the book ends with several of his formal legal documents.

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One of them is actually report of his imprisonment. He

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was imprisoned by the German authorities for one of the

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works that he wrote, which is also included in the book,

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And in that work he critiques some things that are

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going on, and he says, there are these people that

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have infiltrated the German authority structures, and they are turning

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national socialism and the whole goal of everything that we

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started completely against its initial aims. And so he makes

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this critique. Of course, is during wartime, and there's a

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little bit of ambiguity about precisely why he was imprisoned,

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but the suggestion does seem to be taken into custody. Rather,

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the suggestion does seem to be that it bothered Himmler.

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He had sent this kind of confidential memorandum to a

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number of different colleagues, and some in academia than some

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in the German authority structures anyway. That's one of the

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three that in the book. Then the other two are

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actually affidavits that he gave at Nuremberg. They're quite remarkable

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some of the details in there. And the last one,

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if I'm not mistaken, is where he gives his reasons

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for joining the National Socialist Party. And so he says

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that he was an instructor or professor of theology, and

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he had students, male theology students who were in the essay,

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and he says he was so impressed with their character

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made such an impression on him that he was basically

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impelled to join. So he doesn't have anything bad to

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say about it. And in fact, after everything is over,

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he basically says, if there are any attacks on churches

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or anything like that, that must be regarded as an

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aberration against the fundamental principles of National Socialism and what

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we were all about. This is remarkable because this man,

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in some sense was he suffered from the German authorities

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themselves for critiquing them on what he viewed as Christian grounds.

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So the book has a lot of different material in it.

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You'll get his basic political theory treatise, where he at

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the beginning is trying to share the compatibility between Christianity

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and national socialism. He doesn't do any deep exegesis of

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the scripture. That may be unsatisfying to some people, but

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I would suggest just reading and evaluating judiciously the book

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on its own merits. He more deals with kind of

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themes and motifs of Christianity in relation to the on

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the ground political situation of national socialism. And in addition

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to that he has other works so German Christians in

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the Struggle for the Gospel, Germany and the religious world situation,

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and that when he's kind of taken a broader view

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and saying, here's what's going on historically across the world

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with all these revolutions movements. Here's what part of the

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world believes is going on in Germany. They think it's

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this totalitarian nutcase regime. And he says, no, that's actually

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not what's going on. And although some of the you know,

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some of the actions of the regime may be strong,

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you should understand the historical context for that and why

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that's occurring. I include the twenty eight theses of the

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German Christians, as translated by Corey Mahler with his notes.

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Then I also include as an appendix the same thesies

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and their explanation by the principal author thereof, namely Walter Grindman.

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He was another Protestant theologian. In addition to this, it

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has the Jewish Question in the German Evangelical or we

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could say Protestant Church. And this is Fabrizius himself not

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just dealing with the Jewish question, but also answering some

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of the critiques and even condemnations that were raised against

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the German Christians, of which Fabritius was a part. Where

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this Emergency Pastors League partly in response to this nut

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guy named Kraus, they basically wrote a condemnation of the

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German Christians and of the twenty eight theses. And what

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Fabrizius does in the Jewish Question in the German Evangelical

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Church is effectively he's just rebutting all of their objections

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and their condemnations, much of which he says are complete

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straw man. He says, you have totally misunderstood what we

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mean by this and this. Then he's also got the

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reich and struggle. If I remember correctly, this one is

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where he details some of the initial problems that he saw.

241
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Inner Armor is his attempt to strengthen things that he

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sees as waning. And then again I mentioned those other documents,

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so that gives you kind of a window into the

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book itself. Like I said, I think it spans, if

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I'm not mistaken, about nineteen thirty three to nineteen forty six.

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Speaker 1: So the main text positive Christianity in the Third Reich

247
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is released in nineteen thirty seven. Is what's the purpose

248
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of him writing it? Is he trying to convince people?

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Is he explaining? What's he Why is he doing this?

250
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I think he wants to show that national

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socialism and Christianity are not a contradiction, but they are harmonious. Now,

252
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of course certain people are going to go automatically to

253
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the worst possible interpretation, But again I would recommend you

254
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read the book on its own merits. So I'll just

255
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read the first opening paragraph from the forward. He says, quote,

256
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there's much misconception in the world today with respect to

257
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the position of Christianity in the Third Reich, opinion being

258
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rife that an anti christian attitude or paganism is at

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the moment predominant in Germany. These were the considerations which

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led me to issue an English edition of my book. Now.

261
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He goes on to say, this book is not an

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official statement. It's his own individual statement. But he is

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representative of National Socialism in a sense and of the

264
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German Christians, because he's a part of both of those organizations.

265
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And so what he's doing is he's sensing there is

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a misconception of what's going on in Germany right now,

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and I'm writing in part to correct that. In one

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of his other works, he mentions effectively the same things

269
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as I said. He I think it's in Germany and

270
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the religious world situation. He says, there's people that think

271
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there's this totalitarian, crazy state. These reports, they're so common,

272
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So this is not what's going on. Actually, what's going

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on is that Germany has been renewed and basically rebirthed

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and brought back from the brink.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the place to go there is do

276
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we have any idea what the reaction is of that?

277
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Because we do know that there were anti Christian and

278
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pagan influences that seem to have very loud voices. I

279
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think the extent of it from everything that I've been

280
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able to research is very very overblown. But also you

281
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,839
have loud voices that are sort of communicating it. And

282
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not only that is when you have voices as such,

283
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certain Christians of certain ilk are going to who are

284
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against the Third Riker going to look at those voices

285
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and be like, see that's what they're all about, and

286
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just concentrate on that and be sort of a distraction

287
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away from what's going on over here, because I mean

288
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it's insane to say that, you know, it's like, oh,

289
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this was there was no Christians in the Third rek

290
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when there's pictures everywhere of them taking communion in the field,

291
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you know, during the war, or you know, worshiping during

292
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the war. I mean, it's just you basically have to

293
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go into you know, fantasyland, or you know, you become

294
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one of those people who was like, oh, you know

295
00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,200
the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, it's just a fight

296
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,559
the authoritarians fighting over who's going to control the world,

297
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and you just go into straw men or just out

298
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now lies. So how is this How is this received?

299
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,200
I guess is a is a good question.

300
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Speaker 2: How is the book received now or how was it

301
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received when it was published? When it was published that

302
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,519
I can't say for sure other than Fabritius what he

303
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:26,039
says himself. So in one of his later works he

304
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mentions that a bishop in England received the book well,

305
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in fact thought that having read it, it was good

306
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,480
cause to try to seek good relations with Germany. Of course,

307
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this is before the war had really kicked off. I

308
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:52,559
read that and thought, wow, I mean, that's quite remarkable,

309
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for Britis does touch on the pagan element. He actually

310
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expressly highlights that in several places. And my sense from

311
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,599
reading him, okay, not from reading all the material out there,

312
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,440
material out there, but from reading Fabrizius himself, is that

313
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that became a particular problem later on, which Fabrizius attributes

314
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in part to them having infiltrated key leadership positions within

315
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national socialism or the German authority structures, and he says

316
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,920
these guys are creating real problems, and in fact he

317
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,279
says they're against the German nation at this point because

318
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,599
most of the Germans are Christian. So you can find

319
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,640
this information even in critics and condemners of the Third Reich.

320
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,839
So right to Patman, he wrote the book Fascism and Action.

321
00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:48,240
He admits in that book that Germany was overwhelmingly Christian,

322
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and he cites Michael Power in part for this. If

323
00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:54,960
I'm not mistaken, he basically says, effectively, you got two

324
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:57,480
thirds of the country they identify as Protestant, and then

325
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the other third identify as Roman Catholic, and then whoever's

326
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:05,599
left is a very clear minority, like five percent or less.

327
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:09,960
Fabritius himself uses the ninety five percent figure in one

328
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,359
of his works. He says, Germany is ninety five percent Christian.

329
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,920
Now they're going off of different reports and statistics there,

330
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,599
so perhaps the number is less. But so you're talking

331
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about a country that at the time was about like

332
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,559
sixty six million, So that's not something small or minor.

333
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,799
This is pretty significant. Now. It's not to suggest that

334
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:34,079
they're the only country that identified that way. I think

335
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,319
the United States at the time was close to the

336
00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:41,720
same sort of identification, If I'm not mistaken. You'll find

337
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also in other critics and condemners of the Third Reich,

338
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,000
Susannah Heschel. So she's a Jewish academic, liberal lady. I'm

339
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:51,720
not sure if she's written a book like some of

340
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:54,839
these others, but you can find some of her papers

341
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,200
online for free and read them and she says that

342
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:03,960
there was usiastic support for the National Socialists on the

343
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,960
part of Christians and churches. And then she says special

344
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specially for Hitler from Protestants. Everything that I have read

345
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,559
from Fabrizius and then from other German Christians such as

346
00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:26,680
Joaquim Hastenfelder, from Ludwig Muehler, from a man Wilhelm Stoppel

347
00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:30,839
or something like that, they all seem to regard Adolf

348
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,680
Hitler as a Christian. Like. You can do with that

349
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:38,680
whatever you want. You can say, that's complete beloney. I mean,

350
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,680
I'm not really trying to make a perfect, infallible judgment there.

351
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All I'm really doing is reporting on what these people

352
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said in their own day. And they also all emphasize,

353
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,720
to one degree or another, the German character, or excuse me,

354
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the Christian character of Germany. I mean, historically, that's what it.

355
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,519
As you go back into the nineteenth century, it's clear

356
00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:06,359
there's Christian influence. You've got men like Paul de Lagarde.

357
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You've got the other two adults that a lot of

358
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:12,480
people don't know about, Adolf Stecker, Adolf on Harnack and others.

359
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,960
And these aren't just like pastors some of these men

360
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000
are politically involved and shaping the nation in that way.

361
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:22,519
I'm not suggesting that they were the height of the

362
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:26,400
heights in terms of theological orthodoxy or precision or depth,

363
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simply saying that they identified as Christians, and the Christian

364
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:34,359
faith in some way or another was part of their

365
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,000
own persona, publicly and otherwise. And so I think when

366
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you add all that together, to me, it seems like

367
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it's fair to say, in some sense, you know, Germany

368
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,759
was a Christian nation, there were Pagans, and again Fabrizius

369
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,519
notes this. There's interestingly, I got into a discussion with

370
00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:01,079
a guy on X recently who brought this up, and

371
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,839
as we were into it, he he he mentioned the figures.

372
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,200
He said, well, they started off at one percent, and

373
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then after so many years, they were three percent. I thought, okay,

374
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so you got these pagans and they've gained two percent.

375
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,519
All right, what's the rest of the country. What do

376
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:26,000
they identify as? Again, granted by critics and condemners of

377
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:31,160
the third right, they identify it as Christian. So I

378
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,480
can't tell you all of what that means other than

379
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,599
I believe certainly there were genuine Christians and without doubt

380
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,119
there were nominal Christians or just kind of cultural Christians

381
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,640
as well, and I think that has to factor into

382
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,519
how we approach the subject. I realize it's hard for

383
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:55,359
some people because talking about the post war consensus, the

384
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,000
liberal mythos, everything's very charged and such. But I think

385
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:02,359
that we're seeing a lot of this starting to crumble

386
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,960
in our day, and it's time to show some courage

387
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,000
and some sanity and going back to these primary sources

388
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:11,279
in dealing honestly with what they say.

389
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,319
Speaker 1: How does he do that exactly? How does he take

390
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:24,000
the tenants of Protestant Christianity. He's arguing from a Lutheran standpoint, correct.

391
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,039
Speaker 2: As far as I'm aware. Yes, although he wrote for

392
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:31,880
a journal entitled presbyterian isthmus So I'm quite sure how

393
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,519
to parse through that one.

394
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,839
Speaker 1: Okay, how does he reconcile the tenants of national socialism

395
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,839
with the with the tenants of Christianity? I mean, at

396
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,039
least national socialism hat in ethos? Right?

397
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: It did, Yes, you know, a sort of martial spirit,

398
00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:59,480
rejection of degeneracy, the imposition of order, the big bad authoritarianism. Yeah.

399
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:03,079
So he talks about liberalism and he says, we reject this.

400
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,200
It's this radical individualism, it's unders social bonds, it takes

401
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:11,680
actually religion out of the public, and he says we

402
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:17,160
reject this as Christians and as national socialists. He names

403
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,400
Marxism as well, and he says this is an enemy

404
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:26,119
of both our German country and also our faith, and

405
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,519
we unite with national socialism in opposing it. It's a

406
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:31,880
common thread you'll see with these guys as you start

407
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,519
to read them. They name liberalism, Marxism often, then Jewish

408
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:43,400
materialism or materialism, and then Mammonism, and they kind of

409
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,680
see all of these as going together. And if you've

410
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,799
read some other national socialists like Richard Walter Darry, he

411
00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:53,319
says that liberalism and Marxism are kind of like twins.

412
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,440
They get to the same end, they just approach it

413
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,440
in different ways. I think he's got a point there.

414
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:04,119
It seems to me that Fabrizius himself saw that and

415
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,279
rejected it. He also talks about, for instance, the harmonious

416
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:15,920
relationship between humility and heroism, and so in modern Christianity,

417
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,079
which is regardless really of whatever tradition you're in, has

418
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,039
been kind of infiltrated and vitiated from the inside out.

419
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,160
We tend to oppose those two things. We think well,

420
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,000
to be humble is to not be heroic. You don't

421
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,480
go out there and dare and be bold and try

422
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:35,440
to take ground. You kind of recede. If you're a Protestant,

423
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,599
you might be aware of Timothy Keller and his kind

424
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,799
of public PERSONA guy's a complete joke. He basically considered

425
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:44,640
like being a faithful Christian in the public. Miant. You

426
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,720
got there and you pull your pants down, you spank

427
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,680
your own button in front of everybody, and yeah, you're great.

428
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,079
Fabricius completely rejects this. What he sees is that there's

429
00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:59,279
a relationship harmonious between humility and heroism, that they go together,

430
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:06,279
and so he's trying to synthesize instead of dichotomize, which

431
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:09,000
is what we see so often today. You know, these

432
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:14,319
people they abuse Christian doctrines, sentiment, virtue all the time

433
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440
for whether it's it's liberal ins or egalitarian ins, whatever

434
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,160
the case may be. You know, for example, people bring

435
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,400
up the Galatians three twenty eight all the time. There's

436
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,279
neither Jue nor Greek, you know, male nor female. They

437
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,079
just got all these wild places. Basically egalitarianism it seems

438
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:34,759
to me the Fabrezius basically rejects this, and he's behind

439
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,400
ad Alf Hitler one hundred percent. And in his opinion,

440
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:42,279
Adolf Hitler is basically sent of God to renew the

441
00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:49,400
German nation. And you understand the historical context, everything happened

442
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,960
in World War One, then afterward, and then Treaty of

443
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,559
Versailles and the rape and then Weimar, you can understand

444
00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,319
this like you can sympathize these people wanted their their

445
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,240
nation back. And you know, some of these German Christians

446
00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:10,079
talk about their best men in World War One were Christians,

447
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,799
you know, and that they fought bravely. So you read

448
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:17,720
this again and Joachim Hasenfelder, another prominent German Christian.

449
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:26,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Marxism and liberalism I read I've read on

450
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:29,319
my show Razard lagut Go's demon in Democracy, and he

451
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,759
does a really good job in a short period of

452
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:39,920
time of just basically showing how they're The open endedness

453
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,599
of it, the fact that there's no they don't really

454
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:49,119
have a foundation in anything solid, in anything historic, just

455
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,920
basically lends themselves to being so much alike that liberalism

456
00:30:55,559 --> 00:31:00,119
will eventually lead to the other because it's just the

457
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:04,799
only way, the only way liberalism is going to be

458
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,680
able to survive and protect itself is by becoming a

459
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,839
authoritarian form of itself. And that's what That's what Marxism is,

460
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,119
that's what communism is. And yeah, I mean I think

461
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,359
it's pretty obvious when you when you look at what

462
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:28,599
the what the radicals and the revolutionaries in Russia were

463
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,720
calling for from the eighteen nineties to to nineteen ten.

464
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:35,000
I mean, a lot of them were calling themselves liberals,

465
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:41,599
and a lot of them were seeking to to unleash

466
00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:47,240
the bonds of the uh of the czar so that

467
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:49,599
they could have more freedom and they could do as

468
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,400
they wish. And we saw exactly what that what that

469
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,680
led to. So yeah, people who don't people just don't

470
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,000
realize that because most people in what is we see

471
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:02,640
they'll try to call the West and especially in the

472
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,000
United States, is they're liberals. I mean, you know that

473
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:11,960
your average MAGA voter, even though even if they will

474
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,920
deny it one hundred percent, they're liberals.

475
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean I've heard men

476
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:22,200
also suggests that woke was kind of a natural development

477
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,359
in some sense out of liberalism. I think perhaps they've

478
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,400
they've got a point. I mean, I see liberalism in

479
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,200
a similar way that Fabritius talks about it. It's this

480
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:38,279
radical individualism, so it doesn't really have a conception of

481
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,119
like collective solidarity. And I mean that's part of what

482
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:48,599
national socialism was all about. And we can have that today,

483
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,839
just so long as it's you know, anti white.

484
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean you can have you can have

485
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,160
any ethnic enclave if you want, as long as it's

486
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:05,079
the right skin color m and that skin color is

487
00:33:05,079 --> 00:33:09,839
definitely not anybody from the European continent, right, Yeah.

488
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: You can have ethno nationalism for everybody, everybody accept this

489
00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:15,720
one unique particular group. Interesting how that works.

490
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:19,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to see if we can move on to

491
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:26,640
the twenty eight thesis here, because that's probably an It's

492
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:30,839
very interesting to me because just check my notes here,

493
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:37,119
check my notes here. The reason I think you assume

494
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,039
that he's a Lutheran is because basically the twenty eight

495
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:49,799
theses seem to almost root themselves in luther So you

496
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:51,599
can we talk a little bit about the twenty eight

497
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,920
thesis and you know what the I mean, when people

498
00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:03,359
come up with a list like this, or they come

499
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,519
up with a confessional or they come up with a catechism.

500
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:11,039
There's a purpose behind it. There was a you're seeking

501
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,360
to say this is what we believe, and you're not

502
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,920
and do not go outside, go outside of these boundaries

503
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960
or else you're outside of the you're outside of the church.

504
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,800
Say so, what's what's the purpose of the of these

505
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:25,760
twenty eight thesis?

506
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, the twenty eight theses are not meant to be

507
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:39,119
a universal, timeless confession of faith. If you read Fabrizius

508
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,880
and other German Christians in their own words, that is

509
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,519
clear as day. In fact, this is something that Fabricius

510
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:51,480
takes that Pastors Emergency League to task on is he says,

511
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:56,559
my brothers, he calls them brothers. He says, you've basically

512
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,800
treated our theses as if it's meant to be a

513
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,480
comprehensive confession of faith, where it is meant to supplant

514
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:08,320
standard orthodox, historic confessions of faith. And he says that

515
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,880
is not what this is not at all. He basically says,

516
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,519
this is a particular document which we are crafting in

517
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:23,239
relation to our present moment, so its particularity is not universalism.

518
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:27,880
They're not necessarily going to the Bible and deducing therefrom

519
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:31,480
all of the doctrines that every Christian in every place,

520
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:34,559
at all times need to believe. No, they're dealing with

521
00:35:34,639 --> 00:35:40,480
their particular situation. They're in twentieth century Germany, So it

522
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:44,239
touches on things like the church and the state. It

523
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:50,679
touches on the proclamation of the Church, the foundations of

524
00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:53,639
the Church, the path of the Church. So in the book,

525
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:57,840
the total volume, I've got krey Mahler's translation in his notes.

526
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:04,760
We've also got for answer to the Pastor's League, and

527
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:11,000
then Grunman himself who authored them. So you can read

528
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:14,599
the three and get a sense of what they're all about.

529
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:19,199
But basically they're dealing with how are we supposed to

530
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,280
conceive of the church in relation to all of these

531
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,840
things that have now been raised and forced upon us,

532
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,320
whether we're talking about our present political situation or we're

533
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,159
talking about the question of race, how does that interface

534
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,320
with these things? So they discuss, if I'm not mistaken

535
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:50,880
the Aryan paragraph, they discuss, for instance, what they conceive

536
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,039
of in terms of a Christian in their race. So

537
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,840
I'll just read an excerpt here from the Church in

538
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:02,360
the State. Section says a people church does not mean

539
00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:07,400
excluding Christians of other races. Excuse me, got a bit

540
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,679
of a cult does not mean excluding Christians of other

541
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:16,039
races from word and sacrament or from the Great Christian

542
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:21,400
community of faith. A Christian of another race is not

543
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:28,239
a lesser Christian, but rather a Christian of a different kind. Thus,

544
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,840
the People's Church takes seriously that the Christian Church does

545
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,760
not yet live in the perfection of divine eternity, but

546
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,280
is bound by the orders God has given to this life.

547
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:47,119
So the orders, I think the German is Ordnung, so

548
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,119
it's an interesting German word. So they would consider there

549
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:55,639
are distinct orders of life, such as the family and

550
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,559
then the nation. So what they're saying is that the

551
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:03,960
nation or the race in this instance is a distinct

552
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,599
order of life given by God in his wisdom, in

553
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:13,960
his providence. We need to recognize that. But you don't

554
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:21,880
see some sort of harsh racial supremacy theory here. In fact,

555
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:24,840
they head that often they say Christian of another race

556
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,920
is not a lesser Christian, rather a Christian of a

557
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,960
different kind. So they're just recognizing there are differences. So Christians,

558
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,639
for instance, in Japan or in China, they're not necessarily

559
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,760
like you and I to the extent that there are

560
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:47,159
Christians in Africa, they're not necessarily like you or I.

561
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,719
Even you know black people here in America that are Christians.

562
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,880
Often they've got their own distinct churches. And I think

563
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,079
that that's natural, that's fine, that's just a modern sort

564
00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:06,519
of analog. And Fabritius is you know, speaking to similar

565
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:10,880
dynamic as they're facing it in all the particularities there

566
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:17,079
in Germany at the time. So it also talks about,

567
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:22,239
for instance, the Old Testament. So this is part three

568
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,800
of the Foundations of the Church. It says the Old

569
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,880
Testament does not have the same value as the New Testament.

570
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:37,000
The specifically Jewish national morality and national religion have been superseded.

571
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,159
The Old Testament remains important because it records the history

572
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,840
and decline of a people that repeatedly separated itself from

573
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,280
God despite his revelation. The prophets of God show us

574
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,639
all the position of a nation relative to God is

575
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:55,840
decisive for its fate in history. It makes further communes

576
00:39:56,079 --> 00:40:00,360
comments about the apostasy of the Jews and than the

577
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,800
culmination of their sin in the Crucifixion of Christ. He's

578
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,559
not saying throw out the Old Testament. Now, this is

579
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:11,559
a common slander that I've found that people will make

580
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:16,480
against the German Christians and the twenty eighth THESS. It's

581
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,920
not Marcian, it's not affirming that heresy. And if you

582
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,199
read again Fabrisius and his totality, you will see that.

583
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,559
I mean my read, and I've got a solid grasp

584
00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:31,320
on Theolgio, spent quite a bit of time studying it

585
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,360
over the years. My read is that what they're saying

586
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,719
with the Old Testament here is very close to, if

587
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,559
not the same as, what can be found enshrined in

588
00:40:41,519 --> 00:40:45,719
basically the premiere Protestant confession of faith, the Westminster Confession

589
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,639
of Faith, when it speaks of the body politic of

590
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:53,119
the Jews, and the ceremonial law basically says that that

591
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,119
has been abrogated or annulled. It's been canceled. And so

592
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,679
with the coming of Christ, his incarnation, his death, his resurrection, ascension,

593
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,800
you had the putting away of the ceremonial law because

594
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,039
it was a shadow or a picture that was pointing

595
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:14,679
forward to Christ to come in time and in history

596
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,960
to perform the work of redemption. And so in that sense,

597
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,519
all of the peculiarities of the Old Testament religion and

598
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:28,440
the Covenant thereof have faded because they were only for

599
00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:32,559
a particular time until the Messiah came. And it seems

600
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:36,039
to me that they're saying again the German Christians are

601
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:40,039
saying something very similar, if not the same, as that,

602
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,440
noting the Jewish particularity in saying this no longer abides

603
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,519
for us as Christians. So for instance, we don't follow

604
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:50,599
the dietary laws, we don't follow the feast day schedule

605
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,920
and all of that. In fact, it's not, you know,

606
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,840
it's considered heterodox to try to enforce that on Christians.

607
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,599
Now we have libert the Church has entered into its

608
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:07,719
age of maturity. So those are just a few examples.

609
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,880
There's more than that. They talk about Christ and his

610
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,760
Jewish identity. I don't again, since that they ever deny

611
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,760
that Christ was Jewish in any way, But what I

612
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,360
sense is that they reject the framing of some of

613
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,199
their opponents in the way that those opponents use the

614
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:38,440
Jewishness of Christ against the German Christians, probably to oppose

615
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:43,960
the German Christians in their stance against anti their anti

616
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:49,519
Judaism stance and their stance against Jewish materialism, not unlike today.

617
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,440
I mean really I've seen the same thing. People You

618
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:58,000
start erasing a critique about this group, and lo holog

619
00:42:58,039 --> 00:42:59,800
you get Christians trot out and say, oh, you know,

620
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:04,199
Jesus was Jewish, as if anyone is denying that that

621
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,280
somehow means we can't make critiques.

622
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,639
Speaker 1: Or the Pagans are calling you a christ cook.

623
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to deal with those guys too.

624
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:21,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're so funny. It's like, okay, so you're you're

625
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:25,000
a Pagan, why are you against Zionism?

626
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? And also like you want you do you want

627
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,840
to like reclaim the West? Okay, come on, and you

628
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,559
want to throw out Christianity.

629
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,079
Speaker 1: Right because yeah? Yeah, because yeah, because pagan hasn't built

630
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:40,000
the West. That's great. Yeah. So let me go over

631
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:43,480
a couple here. So like these is twenty twenty two

632
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:48,119
to twenty four, the Cross and resurrection are central with

633
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:55,840
Christ overcoming guilt, fate, and death. It's sort of parallels

634
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:01,960
to social the sacrificial ethos of national socialism. When it

635
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:05,320
says overcoming guilt, here's something that you can get. You

636
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,360
can say, oh, okay, you know, sure, I'll even accept

637
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,559
that these were Christians. That you know, people who are

638
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:14,599
fighting in the Varimac, who were in the SS they

639
00:44:14,599 --> 00:44:18,960
are Christians, but they are obviously Antinomians. So you know,

640
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,840
why should we we should judge it. We can judge

641
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,800
that they're not Christians because they're obviously Antinomians. They don't

642
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,079
believe in the law. Look at everything that they did.

643
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: So you're asking what would my response to that be? Yeah, yeah,

644
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,960
I would say prove it. Where's the where's the evidence

645
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,360
for that claim? In what way were they were they Antinomian?

646
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Are we saying that because they're in the war they

647
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,559
were Antiinomian? I mean that that doesn't make much sense

648
00:44:50,599 --> 00:44:53,039
to me. It can be a perfectly good work, and

649
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:55,400
even a work of faith to go to war. I mean,

650
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:59,079
Hebrews eleven talks about this, that by faith some saints

651
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,679
conquered kingdom and put armies to flight. One of my

652
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:07,239
favorite reformers, Swiss reformer Henry Bollinger, talks about this and

653
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,880
he actually indicts people whoever would try to abuse faith

654
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,719
and spirituality against natural things like loving your own, your

655
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,679
kin and countrymen, and defending your country when under threat.

656
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,159
He says, you know, as people are dainty fools and

657
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,440
effeminate hearts. So if they mean they went to war,

658
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,159
their Antiinomian saying no, that's not Antiinomian, I mean antinomian

659
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,880
is in my mind, it's you're against the law, that's

660
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,320
what that's the etymology of that word anti nomos. That

661
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,679
means you don't obey the moral law, you don't obey God,

662
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,960
you don't keep the Ten Commandments. Of course, we don't

663
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,719
believe anyone can keep them perfectly even after you're saved,

664
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,199
But we do believe once you're saved, you've been given

665
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,239
a special power by the Holy Spirit. At least I'll

666
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,000
speak for myself, it's what I believe as a Protestant,

667
00:45:56,039 --> 00:45:58,800
that you've given the Holy Spirit to to obey the

668
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,719
Lord and to keep his law. Even then you're not

669
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,800
going to do it perfectly. So I would have to

670
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:09,519
know what they what they mean by that. I mean, yeah,

671
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,400
it sounds like a weird objection to me.

672
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,679
Speaker 1: Well, when you listen to Christians today, and I don't

673
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:25,000
care if they're Protestant or Catholic like myself, the arguments

674
00:46:25,039 --> 00:46:28,639
make no sense whatsoever, you know as a as a Catholic,

675
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,880
and more of a medievalist. I mean, I understand why

676
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,119
you go to war. It's I'm never I'm never going

677
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:41,760
to apologize for the Crusades. I'm never going to apologize

678
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,760
for the Inquisition. These were things that had to be done,

679
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:49,320
and they were done and they made these are these

680
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,199
are things that helped to make the West. So oh yeah, yeah,

681
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,599
I'm not I'm not apologizing for them.

682
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I'm a I'm not

683
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,440
a I'm not an Evangelical, I'm a classic Protestant, magisterial Protestant.

684
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:04,880
We actually have a lot in common in terms of

685
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,400
civilizational emphasis when you look at the history of that.

686
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:14,119
Have you ever read Raymond Ibraheim Defenders of the West,

687
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,400
Sword and Scimitar the Crusas.

688
00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: No, but I've heard him interviewed, and I definitely want to.

689
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:21,480
I need, I need to get to that book.

690
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like, I like. I've read that Defenders

691
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,480
of the West, So I'm with you on that. He

692
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:29,320
makes a great case. He says that these were defensive wars,

693
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,039
these the Crusades, and that you know, radical Muslim incursions

694
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:38,440
and the wickedness of these Muslims. He says, that's what

695
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:41,039
the Crusades largely were a response to that.

696
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: How would you answer the question? How do you think

697
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:49,239
it goes? Along with the twenty eighth thesis and the

698
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:56,559
book Positive Christianity about like just like the Nuremberg Laws

699
00:47:57,159 --> 00:48:05,159
and the what seems like blatant anti semitism in Jewish

700
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,719
in German policy and in in German practice. I mean,

701
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,599
I know how to answer these things. I'm asking you

702
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:16,039
these questions because these are the kind of questions that

703
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,079
people will, you know, people want to ask you.

704
00:48:20,599 --> 00:48:24,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're saying, how would they how would the

705
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:28,679
the Christians, the German Christians of the time justify their

706
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,440
anti Semitic or anti Judaic stance.

707
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and like saying, oh, well, Jews

708
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,719
can't even you know, according to how much what percentage

709
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,320
you are of a Jew, you can't even be a citizen,

710
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,840
much less teach university things like that.

711
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,639
Speaker 2: Well, on that latter point, I would say, if you

712
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:59,679
go look at his law as in America, fine, similar

713
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:06,320
kind of laws anti miscegenation laws, for instance, immigration restriction laws.

714
00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:09,840
Some people don't know this. Virginia had a law on

715
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,000
the books, but they're nineteen oh six where they said

716
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:23,000
as regarding immigration upon Anglo Saxon supremacy, their words, depends

717
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:26,599
the health of our commonwealth. You look at North Carolina

718
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:30,559
at the same time they're talking about Anglo Saxon's Celtics Teutonics.

719
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:35,440
So they were race conscious, if you wil or ethnicity conscious,

720
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,559
however you want to term this, and that informed not

721
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:47,360
only their political identity of states, but therefrom the restrictions

722
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,920
that they placed on who could and could not come

723
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,800
into their states and have citizenship. I mean, this is

724
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:58,800
kind of standard political theory once you get out of

725
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,199
the madness of kind of the post World War two

726
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:07,639
establishment and the civil rights regime revolution that's been foisted

727
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,159
upon us, all this nonsense. As far as the German

728
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,159
Christians and anti Semitism go, I mean, they would justified

729
00:50:16,159 --> 00:50:18,079
on all sorts of grounds, and they would say that

730
00:50:18,119 --> 00:50:21,480
these people are alien to us, and look at their spirit,

731
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:27,199
look at the productions that they make, whether in art

732
00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:32,800
or in media or in academia, and they would say,

733
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,559
this is alien to us. It's foreign to us, and

734
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:41,639
we want solidarity, we want a strong national collective identity.

735
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,320
And part of procuring that for ourselves means we need

736
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,719
to deal with these people who are in here that

737
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,239
includes some of these laws. Now you can say while

738
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,679
they were used to justify this and that and all

739
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,679
these other other evil things. Fine, but you need to

740
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:07,559
distinguish between the principle and then the application thereof. Just

741
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:11,480
because an application maybe went awry here or there in

742
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:16,440
your estimation doesn't mean the principle itself is fundamentally mistaken.

743
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,519
They would also root it in their broader historic identity,

744
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:24,239
as many of them did. Whether Christians are not going

745
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,920
back to Martin Luther and his Treatise on the Jews

746
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,559
and their Lives among other things that he said that Luther,

747
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,079
he's not really an outlier when you start digging historically

748
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:40,119
into these things in the Western and the Christian tradition,

749
00:51:40,199 --> 00:51:44,000
there's actually a very robust, if we could so speak,

750
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,599
anti Judaic strain in Christianity and in the Western tradition

751
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,559
among different even different denominations or different traditions, whether you're

752
00:51:54,599 --> 00:52:00,360
talking about Roman, Catholic or Protestant. Even in the nineteenth century,

753
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,719
you had ongoing discussions about the Jewish question, even from

754
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,920
Jews themselves. So Lord Willing, with sac repress, we're going

755
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:14,000
to republish two books together well, really three books. So

756
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:17,760
two of those books are by Carl Friedrich Khman, nineteenth

757
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:22,920
century German Jewish Protestant, and he wrote on the Jewish question.

758
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:27,480
And in his first book he says, as a Jew

759
00:52:28,039 --> 00:52:31,519
on this topic that many times throughout history, actually the

760
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:35,840
Jews have brought the repercussions upon themselves because of the

761
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,840
ways that they act, how hostile they are when they

762
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,199
get into these distinct national communities. And he's just honest

763
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:47,000
about it. He's also in way sympathetic with them. And

764
00:52:47,039 --> 00:52:49,559
then in his second book, this is some years later,

765
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:53,440
especially as Zionism has begun to take off, he's much

766
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,639
more sympathetic to them and has very high hopes for

767
00:52:56,679 --> 00:52:57,920
what they're going to be able to do. And he

768
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,800
thinks that the only way to solve the Jewish question

769
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,360
is for Jews to solve it themselves, and of course

770
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,960
to take Palestine and all this. And you know, historically

771
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,320
you can study that and figure out how that went.

772
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,239
I don't think it went very well. Then the other

773
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,360
book is by Gerhard Kitel. He was he came later

774
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,639
in twentieth century. He was actually a national socialist himself,

775
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,239
and he deals with the question. It's quite kind of clinical. Really,

776
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,320
some people have misread him because he raises as just

777
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,000
a hypothetical possibility the one way to deal with his

778
00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:31,440
is extermination. But he doesn't at all entertain it as

779
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,440
a viable or a moral possibility whatsoever. You can read

780
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,039
that that will be what Willing published before the end

781
00:53:40,119 --> 00:53:42,599
of the year by Sacer Press. But I raised just

782
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:44,679
to say that you had this discussion going on. I

783
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,599
raised earlier Paul de Lagarde and the two adults. This

784
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:50,559
was the discussion they were having in the nineteenth century,

785
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:54,599
such that the term anti Semitism didn't come with all

786
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:56,840
the baggage that it now has to us, you know,

787
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,960
over century and a half later. For them, this was

788
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:02,639
just a pressing political question that they were debating and

789
00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:06,159
trying to understand. And you understand the wider historical context

790
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:09,199
as well. You have all the nationalists fervor going on

791
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:13,719
in different places, and then you know, kind of simultaneous

792
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,800
to that a little bit, you've got the development of Zionism,

793
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,119
and so what does this do? This inevitably creates these problems,

794
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,239
and when you know, the Germans are over here and

795
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:31,280
they're crafting and accumulating a distinct German identity, and then

796
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,800
you've got Jews who themselves are not really falling in

797
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,880
line with that and are kind of opposing it in

798
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,960
different ways. That's naturally sociologically speaking and politically speaking, it's

799
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,199
just going to create some sort of clash and they're

800
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,639
they're going to have to deal with it. It's just

801
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,960
what you do is natural. So that's how i'd answer

802
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:52,719
that question about how they did it. I mean there

803
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,719
was also theological justification and other things, but I mean

804
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,679
it was a discussion, it being going on for decades. Really,

805
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,599
some people think national socialism at all Hitler just ex

806
00:55:01,679 --> 00:55:05,519
Nihilo appeared. Now they're really the culmination from what I've

807
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:08,719
read thus far of decades of this sort of thing.

808
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:17,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, the we were reading today in two hundred Years

809
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:21,320
Together by the Sulcianese, and it was talking about how

810
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,000
during one of the one of the quote unquote programs

811
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:30,840
or which are when you start studying the history of that,

812
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:36,480
you just you can't believe just how they've been the

813
00:55:36,519 --> 00:55:39,400
lies that have come out of that. How in one

814
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:45,119
of them, the people actually knew where the car rights

815
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:49,559
lived and left them and like didn't destroy their didn't

816
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:52,920
break windows in their houses, didn't destroy their businesses. They

817
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:58,440
were actually able to distinguish between you know what we

818
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,239
would say are the Talmudist Jews and the car too

819
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:06,679
completely rejected that and normally we were persecuted by the

820
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:15,920
Thomnists openly. So yeah, the whole idea that the that

821
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:18,639
this wasn't a discussion. And then you can just go

822
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,760
to newspapers, in newspapers all around the world in the

823
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,320
nineteen twenties and the JQ is openly discussed being written about.

824
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:30,079
Books are being written about it. Jews are writing books

825
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:34,280
about it. I mean, Maurice Samuel's You Gentiles is I

826
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,840
mean the one of the best treaties on it. And

827
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,800
people are like, oh, well, who was he? And it's

828
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,440
like then you go back in your research, it's like

829
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:42,880
that was one of the biggest books in the Jewish

830
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,800
community around the you know, especially in the West at

831
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,960
the time, and so you know this whole oh anti,

832
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:55,000
it's just anti Semitism, and you have people like Pinsker writing,

833
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:57,679
oh well, I mean, there's no way we can deal

834
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:02,519
with this other than extermination because it's hereditary. So we

835
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:06,360
have to do something about these people. Because because it's hereditary.

836
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,000
Over the centuries and it's just like, all right, well,

837
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:10,639
I mean I don't know if he went so far

838
00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:14,280
as to say extermination, but I mean, if it's hereditary

839
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,280
and it's incurable, are what is the other answer? Then?

840
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:23,760
You know? So yeah, just the fact that it's one

841
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:29,280
of those things where basically this happened one hundred years ago.

842
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,079
We're talking about one hundred years ago, and people are

843
00:57:33,199 --> 00:57:39,320
living in a world and a society and something that

844
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:46,400
isn't even the West anymore, that has completely been brainwashed

845
00:57:46,639 --> 00:57:53,199
and brainwashed probably the best term, but been so indoctrinated

846
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:59,519
that this is the unpardonable sin, that anti Semitism is

847
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:03,079
the un part sin. They have to project that backwards

848
00:58:03,199 --> 00:58:06,480
to everyone in history who's ever had the question or

849
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:11,400
asked the question, and make that be that these people

850
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,719
were they they broke the unpardonable sin. So there's no

851
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,880
way they could have been Christians. There's no way they

852
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,920
there's no none of them are in heaven. It's it's

853
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:26,960
it's the same thing. I apologize. It's the same thing.

854
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,039
A lot of Protestants, a lot of Protestants would have

855
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:30,519
you believe no one went to heaven in the first

856
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:33,239
fifteen hundred years of the church, the way a lot

857
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:33,840
of them talk.

858
00:58:34,559 --> 00:58:36,039
Speaker 2: I don't say that.

859
00:58:36,159 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: I figured you didn't, but yeah, yeah, but the but

860
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,360
but that's basically what it is. Is you're looking back

861
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:48,840
and you're judging people upon the value, and then you'll

862
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,519
be like oh, and then people will be like, oh, well,

863
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:53,559
you know, two hundred years ago slavery was you know,

864
00:58:54,119 --> 00:58:59,079
was accepted, and it's like slavery, slavery has been accepted

865
00:58:59,159 --> 00:59:03,239
for ninety nine point nine percent of humanity.

866
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you read the Bible, it's actually God

867
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,719
never commands anything against it, He never forbids it, he

868
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,199
regulates it, and in some instances there's a form of

869
00:59:13,239 --> 00:59:16,320
slavery that is intended as a form of mercy for

870
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:17,679
certain poor individuals.

871
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there's one book that's basically saying telling

872
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:24,840
a slave to go back to his master.

873
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, Phi Lehman, you're right.

874
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's like, okay, well what do we what

875
00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:32,960
do we do with this? So then I guess they

876
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,559
have to dismiss christian That's one way to dismiss Christianity

877
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:39,400
as just being completely immoral, because that's not even the

878
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,440
Old Testament, that's the New Testament. Cody.

879
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, you know, that's because they've swallowed

880
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,159
the new modern religion. It's it's what do you call it,

881
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:59,960
you know, liberalism, egalitarianism. It's just this ugly, unnatural view

882
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:05,719
of man and of the world and the flattening of everything.

883
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,639
It's not just a boy could be a girl, a

884
01:00:07,639 --> 01:00:10,880
girl could be a boy. It's that nobody can be great,

885
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:14,960
and everything is bad, and everybody who is great needs

886
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,760
to be torn down, you know, tear down Robert E.

887
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,480
Lee statute and all this thing. It's a it's a

888
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:23,079
revolutionary spirit and it's from Satan.

889
01:00:25,679 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: So let's finish up with this. I don't want to

890
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:29,360
keep you very long, and we'll keep it open for

891
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,159
you to come back in the future because I know

892
01:00:31,239 --> 01:00:35,320
you're it's it's nice for you to be able to

893
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,320
do this, considering you sound like, hell, oh.

894
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:41,519
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here. I feel okay, I just

895
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,440
sound weird. I've got this condestion.

896
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: But so if if ninety five percent of Germany is

897
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:59,199
a Christian and Adolf Hitler is the I mean, Thomas

898
01:00:59,239 --> 01:01:03,320
seven seven says this all the time. The German people

899
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,880
weren't really that in love with the national socialists, but

900
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,719
they loved Adolf Hitler. So if all of these Christians,

901
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:15,239
you know, looking back through the lens of our day,

902
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,400
if all of these Christians ninety five percent of the

903
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:27,199
country loved Adolf Hitler, I mean, what should that tell us?

904
01:01:27,719 --> 01:01:30,440
How should we interpret that? How should how should we

905
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:31,960
look at that historically?

906
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's really the question of the day,

907
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,800
is it not? Because I mean, Adolf Hitler, in many

908
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:47,400
people's minds, is worse than Satan, really is. If they're

909
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,599
ever going to try to make some kind of moral

910
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:53,679
evaluation about a person and they're trying to find the

911
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:57,440
most extreme version of something that's evil, they will cite

912
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,400
Adolf Hitler. They've likened Trump to Adolf Hitler in part,

913
01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:05,760
I think, to try to get him assassinated. And then,

914
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,880
of course, what's the justification for so many wars? Oh,

915
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,159
you know, this person's the new Hitler. Putin's the new Hitler.

916
01:02:13,519 --> 01:02:19,280
It's fascism, it's the Nazis again and again. So one

917
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,039
of the things that needs to tell us is that

918
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:27,320
history can take on a mythological status where it has

919
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:36,559
a moral mythological weight, such that you can invoke persons

920
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:44,880
or terms such as Nazi and they're like heresies, and

921
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,719
if you brand them upon someone, it's meant to say

922
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:54,599
they're beyond redemption. So, for instance, when it came out

923
01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:56,519
that I was publishing this book, there's some Christians who

924
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:58,840
made a big stir about it on x and one

925
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,360
of these guys said, oh, you're a pro you're pro Hitler.

926
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:05,920
Cody is a pro Hitler, pro third Reich publisher and

927
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:11,519
all this. And there was one man who published a

928
01:03:11,519 --> 01:03:16,079
screenshot of the book. Another man in forty seven minutes says,

929
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,280
you can find the deeply heretical text here. He linked

930
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,719
it to archive dot org. I have pressed this man

931
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:27,800
for ten plus months now substantiate that charge, substantiate that

932
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,079
it's heresy. I dare you show one thing from the book?

933
01:03:32,119 --> 01:03:34,719
You found the book. You're resourceful, but you can't even

934
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:40,280
substantiate this charge. He's refused. And that's a case example

935
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:45,280
of what's going on. People's minds have been captured such

936
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:51,920
that they think it is the height of moral virtue

937
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:57,800
to condemn Alf Hitler and the Nazis. But we don't

938
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,280
do this with any other historical people. Weren't going back

939
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,320
to the Civil War or the war between the states,

940
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,920
if you prefer and summoning it in this way. Sometimes yeah,

941
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,320
they go back there, but it does not at all

942
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,800
approach the level of intensity that World War two does.

943
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,119
They're not going back to Napoleon. They're not going back

944
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:24,159
to Titus when he slew over a million Jews. And

945
01:04:24,199 --> 01:04:27,800
I believe that was actually the judgment, the incarnate judgment

946
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,280
of the Lord Jesus Christ upon the Jews the events

947
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,719
leading up to eighty seventy for their extreme wickedness and

948
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,039
degeneracy and the rejection of the Gospel after he'd been

949
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:44,320
patient with him for centuries. You look at it that way,

950
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:50,400
he say, Actually, God has probably killed war Jews, anybody

951
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:55,840
else in history Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Romans, and then

952
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:01,719
other temporal judgments that have taken place. So our whole

953
01:05:03,719 --> 01:05:10,039
religious and moral imagination has been refactored in the West,

954
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,920
so that this is a load bearing myth, as Darryl

955
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,639
Cooper says, and in my opinion, it has to come

956
01:05:18,679 --> 01:05:21,599
crashing down. I think in part it already kind of

957
01:05:21,719 --> 01:05:25,079
is in made different ways. There are people with platforms

958
01:05:25,079 --> 01:05:28,960
such as yourself and even others, who are talking about

959
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:32,159
all these sorts of things. You know, these zoomers that

960
01:05:32,199 --> 01:05:36,760
are watching Adolf Hitler speeches in English on TikTok or whatever.

961
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:39,920
There's no stopping this. I think it was Sam Francis

962
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,280
himself back in the nineties when asked, you know, how

963
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,599
do we advance out of this problem that we're in,

964
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:48,119
he says he thinks, basically, the internet is going to

965
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:49,840
be the only way that we're going to do it.

966
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,400
I think he's apprecient. Apprecient, He's right, and that's part

967
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:59,159
of why I'm publishing the book. So in terms of

968
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:02,480
the evaluation of people what they claim about Hitler, Look,

969
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:06,840
you got liberals who are saying this, Okay, it's not

970
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,119
the guy who shaved his head and is out there

971
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,960
with hooked cross or as people call it, a swastika,

972
01:06:14,159 --> 01:06:18,039
you know, screaming in a megaphone. Who is saying Adolf

973
01:06:18,159 --> 01:06:20,519
Hitler is a Christian. I mean, there may be guys

974
01:06:20,519 --> 01:06:23,039
out there like that. I don't know. I'm talking about

975
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,280
Jewish academic liberals like Susannah Heschel are saying these things,

976
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,679
and they're seeing these things. Having gone back to primary sources.

977
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,599
These two books here a Church Undone by Mary Solberg.

978
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:39,760
It's got a bunch of the documents from the German

979
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:44,079
Christians that she's compiled, and then this book The Holy

980
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:49,559
Reich by Richard Steigmann Gaul. I think Richard is Jewish.

981
01:06:49,719 --> 01:06:52,880
I'm not sure if Mary is or not, although Berg

982
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,760
it makes you think probably so. Anyway, you read what

983
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,000
they say, they're saying there's definitely a Christian element to this.

984
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,119
And then you read these German Christians in their own

985
01:07:05,159 --> 01:07:09,440
words again and again. They all seem to highly esteem,

986
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:15,599
love and honor at alf Hiller. And from what I've read,

987
01:07:15,599 --> 01:07:18,360
they all regarded him as some sort of a Christian.

988
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,079
And I've read his speeches. It's clear he says it

989
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,880
all the time. He mentions God, Lord, God, Providence, Almighty God.

990
01:07:26,199 --> 01:07:29,239
He says christis his Lord and Savior. I understand there

991
01:07:29,239 --> 01:07:33,800
are disputes about other things that he said. Okay, granted, fine,

992
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,719
but I look at that and think it's hard for

993
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,280
me to just say that means nothing at the very least.

994
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,639
I think you have to grant from the actual sources

995
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:47,840
that Hitler at least said in ways he was a

996
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:54,920
Christian and said it enough and performed deeds such that

997
01:07:55,639 --> 01:08:01,000
other Christians thought he was a Christian. You don't have

998
01:08:01,079 --> 01:08:04,719
to accept that. You don't have to like that whatever.

999
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,000
I don't really care what you personally do with it,

1000
01:08:08,039 --> 01:08:11,079
other than you just say that's true. That's what the

1001
01:08:11,119 --> 01:08:14,320
sources actually say. If you can at least start there,

1002
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,119
I think that's a great place to start. And we

1003
01:08:17,159 --> 01:08:20,279
don't start lighting our hair on fire and going crazy

1004
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:24,039
and saying neo Nazi, you know, all this nonsense. Let's

1005
01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:25,920
just look and see what it said. Why can't we

1006
01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:28,319
just be do justous about this? Why do we have

1007
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:32,159
to treat this as a touchstone for whether a person

1008
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:35,039
should live or die. It's it's insanely we can't keep

1009
01:08:35,079 --> 01:08:38,199
living like this. It's time to move on. That's how

1010
01:08:38,199 --> 01:08:44,159
i'd respond, Yeah, you're in. This is just the subject.

1011
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:48,239
Speaker 1: And I think Jerald Cooper making his comment about Churchill

1012
01:08:49,199 --> 01:08:55,600
on on Tucker's Show should be all the evidence anyone

1013
01:08:55,680 --> 01:09:00,000
needs to know. Is that this is a religion. Is

1014
01:09:00,399 --> 01:09:04,920
it's it's it sought to replace Christianity in the West.

1015
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:08,520
And if you you know, there are there will there

1016
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,279
are people who will tell you if you do not

1017
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,960
denounce you know, Adolf Hitler and and and the third Reich,

1018
01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:19,239
and you can't be a Christian So it's actually it's

1019
01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:24,760
actually part of it's become part of the confessional of

1020
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,960
a lot of Western Christians quote unquote Western.

1021
01:09:28,239 --> 01:09:31,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a profession of faith condemned, denounced the

1022
01:09:31,239 --> 01:09:35,000
Nazis and Adolf Hitler, and make sure you affirm this

1023
01:09:35,119 --> 01:09:37,000
other thing that we always have to keep bringing up.

1024
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,000
That's that's what it is. It's it's insanity. It's again,

1025
01:09:41,039 --> 01:09:43,359
it's captured our moral imagination. So I wrote a little

1026
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:47,479
bit about this, I'll say this last thing on the

1027
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,680
Sacri Press blog when I got a lot of blowback

1028
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,319
when people saw I was publishing the book. The article

1029
01:09:55,399 --> 01:09:58,600
is called why publish Positive Christianity? In the Third Reich

1030
01:09:59,079 --> 01:10:02,840
Part one five parameters, and I give five reasons for

1031
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:08,800
why I published it historical political, narratival, which is kind

1032
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:14,319
of like the adjective form of narrative moral, and then

1033
01:10:15,279 --> 01:10:17,560
the other one is failing me now. And in the

1034
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,560
narratival section I talk about this, I say that this

1035
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,640
whole thing is I call it a mythos. It is

1036
01:10:26,119 --> 01:10:29,439
like the salvation and judgment of the West, just like

1037
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,840
how the Israelites looked back to the Exodus constantly as

1038
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:37,279
this constitutive crisis and emancipation from which they just derived

1039
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,720
all their meaning as a people, and then also all

1040
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,319
sorts of moral imperatives. And then throughout their history they'd constantly,

1041
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,560
you know, kind of resummon this or reconjure this. You

1042
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,079
see this in the Psalms repeatedly. They're hearkening back to

1043
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:53,000
the Exodus. It's a similar thing with World War Two.

1044
01:10:53,119 --> 01:10:56,439
For us in the West, it's like, that's our justification

1045
01:10:57,119 --> 01:11:02,000
for being. And you start digging into some of these

1046
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:07,359
primary sources. From my perspective, you to say, I'm not

1047
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,199
sure if this should be You look at some of

1048
01:11:10,279 --> 01:11:15,039
these people. They thought people that joined the German that

1049
01:11:15,079 --> 01:11:18,640
the Wehrmacht, even those outside of Germany, you know, like

1050
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,159
the V and V what's his name, stef de Clerk

1051
01:11:21,279 --> 01:11:25,119
or whatever. These people regarded themselves first they're as Christians,

1052
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,840
and second as defending Christendom. That's what some of them

1053
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,960
literally regarded themselves as doing, especially with the threat of

1054
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:37,920
Bolshevism and the Soviets and such. Again, I'm not saying

1055
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,319
you have to now adopt that as your new religion.

1056
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,359
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that's that's the history.

1057
01:11:45,159 --> 01:11:48,079
When were we told this? I was never told these things,

1058
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,119
but even close. I was never told Germany was nine

1059
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,000
Christian or at least identified that way, or that they

1060
01:11:55,039 --> 01:12:01,479
were Protestants enthusiastically supportive of Adolf Hitler. Never told any

1061
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,760
of this, And I think these things have to be published.

1062
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:08,000
This it's got to get out there. You're gotta get

1063
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:12,239
the truth out there to dispel the lies and even

1064
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:16,359
the mythos itself. What do you do after that? It's

1065
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:19,000
a separate question because you still need some sort of

1066
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,399
religious glue that holds you together. Obviously, as a Christian,

1067
01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:27,279
I think that has to be christ and Christianity. I'm

1068
01:12:27,319 --> 01:12:30,399
not sure what that would look like anew though, in

1069
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,680
replacing this false religion.

1070
01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the first thing we have to do

1071
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:41,600
is just destroy that myth. And that's pretty much what

1072
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,039
I've been working on. And believe it or not, there

1073
01:12:45,079 --> 01:12:50,039
are people out there who people would not believe also

1074
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:53,840
realize that, and they realize that the myth of World

1075
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:58,399
War two is even if they don't like the Third

1076
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:03,000
Reich or thing that Germany that you know, Germany should

1077
01:13:03,039 --> 01:13:05,960
have won the war or anything like that, they understand

1078
01:13:06,039 --> 01:13:10,000
that the myth behind it needs to be destroyed if

1079
01:13:10,039 --> 01:13:12,439
we're going to go forward as a country. I mean,

1080
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,880
it's basically how this hostage and occupied us since the war,

1081
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,720
exactly right, that occupation. Yeah, occupation has to be broken

1082
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,960
if that. Until that occupation is broken, we can't even

1083
01:13:25,039 --> 01:13:28,840
begin to discuss what the future looks like. We can

1084
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:34,000
make plans, but we can, but really what it's going

1085
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:37,159
to I guess the question would be what it's going

1086
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:40,199
to look like after that, but that's a that's for

1087
01:13:40,319 --> 01:13:41,680
a whole other project I do.

1088
01:13:43,039 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that is the question. I agree with you

1089
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,800
one hundred percent. It's I called a straight jacket, and

1090
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,079
we have to break out of it, and that means

1091
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,920
breaking the myth. However you do that, you know you

1092
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,119
can invert it. Some people seem to think that's a

1093
01:13:59,159 --> 01:14:02,479
good idea. I'm not necessarily going to starkly oppose them.

1094
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,239
Other people think you can ignore it. I think that's naive.

1095
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,760
There's no way. I don't think you can really ignore it.

1096
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,960
And then other people think maybe you could replace it.

1097
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,279
But I'm not sure I going to replace it without

1098
01:14:16,359 --> 01:14:18,880
first getting it out of the way somehow.

1099
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,399
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it has people have to be willing to

1100
01:14:24,199 --> 01:14:26,720
move it aside in order to replace it with something else.

1101
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:29,800
So remind everybody where they can find the book and

1102
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:30,520
the rest of your work.

1103
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find the book at sacrapress dot com,

1104
01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:41,760
s A c r A press dot com. It's available

1105
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,159
for pre order right now. If you pre order, you

1106
01:14:44,199 --> 01:14:48,520
will get a free PDF copy at release in addition

1107
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,960
to your physical paperback copy as well. If you pre order,

1108
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:57,000
you will be automatically entered into a book giveaway. So

1109
01:14:57,079 --> 01:15:00,840
we've got four books to give away. Three copies of

1110
01:15:01,279 --> 01:15:03,840
in his own Words, The Essential Speeches of Adolf Hitler

1111
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,479
by our friends at Antelope Hill, and then we've got

1112
01:15:08,159 --> 01:15:12,600
one copy it's two volumes of Mike compf by Clemens

1113
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,119
and Blair, the new translation by Timothy Dalton in hardback

1114
01:15:16,239 --> 01:15:19,720
to give away. We're thankful that both of these publishers

1115
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:22,840
partnered with us in that way. There are other books

1116
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,880
available as well, and for your audience, we have a

1117
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:29,359
special discount code. It's pete Q p E t e

1118
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:35,680
Q all caps. Use that code at checkout for at discount.

1119
01:15:36,079 --> 01:15:38,239
I just want to say thanks Pete for having me on.

1120
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:40,840
Big fan of your show, been listening since last year

1121
01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:45,319
plan to keep on listening, probably top three podcasts for me.

1122
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,439
I recommend it to my friends all the time. It's

1123
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:49,000
been an honor.

1124
01:15:50,159 --> 01:15:52,079
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Cody, thank you very much, and I'll

1125
01:15:52,119 --> 01:15:54,840
make sure to link to all of that and especially

1126
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:55,279
the code.

1127
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:56,279
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1128
01:15:57,119 --> 01:16:12,319
Speaker 1: Have a good night, take care you too. S