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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host,

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and we have Bill Chuck. I'm really excited to talk

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to him again. Iconic Australian researcher Charles Lear has been

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writing about him for years in the blogs. Now I'll

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tell you this was something I'm talked into. It's a

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little different. There are two streams going on right now

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on YouTube. One of them has live chat, one of

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them doesn't. One of them is vertical and it's for

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your phone, for your iPhone or any type of phone

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like that. So I was talked into trying this. We'll

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see how it goes. I want to hear feedback from

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you as a listener, if you can comment on the

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show itself, tell me what you think of it. If

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it's confusing, I may not do it. I'm just trying

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this Synx experiment and Bill Chalker is my guinea pig

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on this tonight, and without choice. Sorry Bill, but we're

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just going to try this out and see how it works.

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I would love to hear your feedback on it. Supposedly

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it's supposed to be something good. But anyway, we'll see

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how it goes. Let's see the blog for this week

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is part two, the rise and fall of interest in

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the British crop circle mystery, you know, starting back in

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the nineteen eighties, and as you know, a lot of

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them were hoaxes, but there are still a lot of

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unexplained crop circles. It's a fascinating topic all on its own.

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So I want to thank you all in chat. I

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see the usual suspects as they say, Dirk, also Christopher,

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and it looks like a couple of new ones in there.

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Thank you for being here tonight, and so we are

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ready to bring in our guests.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to have him back now. I got to explain.

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Speaker 1: Last time Bill was on there was a I think

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he said fifty thousand houses were out of power blackout,

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and I guess something happened again yesterday. But anyway, he's

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here now and we have him in his home studio.

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Speaker 2: Bill, welcome to the.

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Speaker 3: Show, Welcome back, Good to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so what's going on? Here we go? Here we go.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we're just trying to work this out. So Bill,

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if you would you know from the last time you

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were here, I know there was a lot of interest

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in the show. We had a lot of downloads in it.

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And again the audio. We had the kooka bars out

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there making noise and everything.

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Speaker 2: That was pretty wild.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so I know I asked you last time,

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but can you if just for the person seeing you

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for the first time, you've been at this a long time.

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When did you first start your very first UFO investigation?

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Hang on, Bill, try that again.

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Speaker 3: Hang on to a second.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're having a little trouble here. Try that again, Bill,

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When did your first start?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I started my UFO interest pretty much around about

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nineteen sixty six, but only got actively involved by sixty

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nine seventy, and by then I was starting to do

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a lot of active research, field investigations, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Ah, And you know, I mean you've talked about this before.

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I think that there was sort of a lot of

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stigma involved in the UFOs in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So how did that work with your everyday life?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: I didn't infect my everyday life, but I agree the

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stigma wasn't just unique to Australia. The stigma was worldwide

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and that was reflected a lot, particularly courtesy of the

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Content Committee report that came out in nineteen sixty nine,

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and from that point of view, it kind of was

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an expression of that stigma with sort of mainstream science

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in the form of Edward Condon describing the whole UFO

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subject is worthless and of no scientific merit. But here,

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as I a budding high school student in nineteen sixty nine,

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routing the Conduct Committee report, I read it several times

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over a few months, and to me it confirmed that

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there was a real problem and the real phenomenon, and

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from that point of view started to investigate what was

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going on here in Australia in particular.

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Speaker 1: Great and there are some great cases, But you were

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sort of drawn to the pre nineteen forty seven Is

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that right?

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Speaker 3: I guess that's the pre nineteen forty seven sightings were

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one area of interest. But what really drew me in

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was the science focus, or the suggestion that there was

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a real physical phenomenon going on, and that My first

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sort of focus was simply to examine whether there was

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a UFO reality, and then the next sort of priority

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was to establish whether that was alien or not, or

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some sort of prosaic kind of explanation. And through all

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that I got exposed to a broad cross section of

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the UFO froment in Australia but the pre nineteen forty

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seven stuff was an area of interest to me as well,

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simply because if there were cases that were the same

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as what we're experiencing at that time, back in the

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twentieth century, then that sort of suggested that we've got

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a real enduring phenomenon there outside of the typical kind

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of military intelligence mel who It didn't exist back in

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those early days, and so that's why I had the

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interest in historical cases.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you said.

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Speaker 1: That you were you had an interest back in high school,

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did you have like fellow high school buddies or anything

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that you talked to this about or was this something

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you were.

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Speaker 2: Just doing on your own.

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Speaker 3: Well, there there was interest from the point of view

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of other friends and students, and so that was an

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ongoing thing. And in fact, I had a number of

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my student friends helping me out in some of the

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early investigations. And back in nineteen sixty nine, for example,

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you know, I was sort of involved in doing field investigations,

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and I had various friends, local friends that were assisting

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me in doing those field investigations. And my father at

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the time knew the local member of parliament in our

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state government, and it was on his property. The parliamentarian

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mister Iarnan Robinson a property at a place called bunger

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Walden that had a quite striking physical trace site where

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there was a sacling crop or sugarcane crop that was

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affected or flattened out, and flood mitigation workers were kind

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of examining the site for blood mitigation work. But there

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was a top shaped objects flying through the night sky

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and landing in that sacle and crop. So there was

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a direct education with a UFO event.

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Speaker 1: And would you say when you say that there was

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a trace evidence, what type of trace evidence is.

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Speaker 2: That what you just said?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a large amount of flattened sugar cane

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crop flattened out into a circular area of that and

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that caused quite a sensation. It was widely reported across Australia.

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In fact, I've seen reporting on that case overseas as well,

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so I did get a lot of press coverage. It

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was quite a media sensation in its time, you know,

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like in some respects when the Economic Committee report came

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out in nineteen sixty nine and early nine sixty nine,

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it seemed to shut down a lot of UFO interest

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in the United States. But here in Australia. We had

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quite an extensive UFO flat, so to speak of multiple

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sightings and closing counter sightings right across the country. So

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it was a very interesting time in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Now, where has whe were you at that time? I'm

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trying to think, was it South Wales, New South Wales?

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Speaker 2: Is that it is that where you were.

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Speaker 3: In New South Wales? It's I was in the north

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coast of New South Wales, up the place called Grafton,

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and that was my hometown and so a lot of

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the local activity was happening and being monitored by me.

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And that was the case right through it all. About

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nineteen seventy five, well, actually from seventy one seventy two,

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I went to the University of New England at Armadale,

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which is, I guess, up in the mountainous region just

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to the west of Grafton. And I'm just just trying

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to give a geographical kind of location to all this.

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And so I spent three years at the University of

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New England at Armadale, and there I had an active

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UFO group and we were investigating a lot of things

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and and what was really quite striking is that seventy three,

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we were engaged in doing a field kind of investigation

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of a major intensityve U of five flap on the

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door guy Plata, and luckily for me, it took me

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into the realm of direct witnessing of the UFI promen

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that kind of thing, and that was very striking for me.

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Speaker 1: M Now, I know this is prior to that, but

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when I think it was, boy, I don't know if

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I have the date right or not, but was it

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nineteen sixty six when Westall happened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's correct and the go ahead. No.

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Speaker 2: I just wondered if you had heard about it.

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Speaker 1: I know you weren't really paying attention that much in

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sixty six, you said, nineteen sixty nine, But had you

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heard of that case prior to when you started looking

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into this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was. There was sort of publicity given to it,

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but it was kind of a bit of a sleeper report.

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Nineteen sixty six historically turned out to be a huge

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year for major UFO sightings, and it really kicked off

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quite early in nineteen sixty six with the famous Tully

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report up in far North Queensland, and that's where a

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Bana farmer crossing his neighbour's property on a tractor at

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nine o'clock in the morning in January nineteen, nineteen sixty six,

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forty heard what it sounded like a air escaping. He

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thought it might have been a problem with attractor tire,

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but he stopped and then observed a disshaped object coming

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out of a tidal lagoon area quite close to him,

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within twenty yards and out of the horseshoe lagoon raise

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a dish shaped object and it took off a slight dive,

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and then he goes over to the lagoon and sees

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a swirling massive water swirling in a clockwise position. Was

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all dark, and Brocken comes back an hour or two

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later and then sees that the reeds that were in

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the lagoon itself had risen to the surface, and there

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was like a natural pontoon of intertwined sword grass reads

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so tightly wound in a clockwise direction that people were

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able to climb onto that floating pontoon of sword grass roads,

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and it could support the weight of a man. And

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it was around about twenty eight to thirty feet in

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diameter approximate the size of the UFO. So it was

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a very striking physical trace case and that kicked off

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the year, so to speak, in Australia in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, yeah, I think it's possible either we touched

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on that at last time we spoke, or maybe perhaps

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I heard about that.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that sounds interesting.

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Speaker 1: But I do want to skip back because I know

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that you investigated kind of a interesting I'm trying to

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think of the eighteen sixty eight Paramatta cases.

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Speaker 2: That's something that you'd be able to talk a little

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bit about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be confusing here with there's quite a time

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delay going on anyway, the paramedic case that you're talking about.

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I didn't learn of that until I moved to Sydney

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full time and there to live and work in nine

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and seventy five. And the likel UFI group had been

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established since about nine and fifty six. It was one

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of the earliest longest duration UFO groups in the world

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in fact, five fifty six and then a sort of

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honorary president of the group, Fred Phillips I, used to

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spend a fevit of time with him in his personal

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library and he had a huge interest not only the

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UFOs but the paranormal the occult psychic type stuff. So

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visiting his placed with his massive library was always a

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real pleasure. And it was during one of those visits

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that he showed me what appeared to be the reconstructed

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journal entry by a Paramatto surveyor called Frederick William Birmingham,

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and this surported to describe the land of a Ufo

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or what he referred to as a flying arc in

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Paramounta Park. This is a very large residential parkland area

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at Paramounta. Paramatta was our first real city that developed,

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the original first settlement of Australia by the British back

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in seventeenth seventy eight, that had become a bit of

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a cesspool, polluted, very poorly advantaged, and so they developed

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the first city as such out to the west, probably

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about twenty kilometers away, and that became the first major

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city development in Australia. And it was at that location

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that Frederick Birmingham had his sighting. Now, my initial reaction

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to seeing this document was I wondered whether it was

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some sort of more contemporary hoax, and so off I

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went to the State Library, the Mitchell Library, to the

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Receive department, started looking at all the historical newspaper accounts

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that kind of thing. And what really amazed me was

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I was starting to find very clear evidence that Frederick

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Birmingham did exist. He was a surveyor, He was on

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two occasions an ornerman or a politician on the local council,

241
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,360
and was quite well regarded as a surveyor and engineer

242
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:43,519
and involved in kind of council work involving like the

243
00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:46,440
repair and maintenance of the local water works and all

244
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,000
that kind of stuff to ensure that there was a

245
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:54,679
clean water supply for the growing city of Paramatta. So

246
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,600
the guy existed. I came across maps and survey maps

247
00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:02,000
that he had done, and so I was able to

248
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,240
verify it fatly quickly that yeah, okay, Frederick Birmingham was

249
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,279
a real person. But the question was was this document

250
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,920
a real product of Frederick Birmingham? And sure enough, over

251
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,319
a long period, we're able to determine that he actually

252
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:23,119
described that story, and it got documented in contemporary newspapers,

253
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,759
and even as you know, certainly by about eighteen seventy

254
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,839
two seventy three, there was documentation of newspaper counts in

255
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,599
the Paramount area. So the story itself was being described,

256
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:45,640
and there was a local horticulturist or seed merchant who

257
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,720
took a particular interest. He also had an active side

258
00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:54,559
interest of historical studies, local interest, that kind of thing,

259
00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,240
and he actually encountered Birmingham before he passed away in

260
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,400
eighteen ninety two, and I was able to secure some

261
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:07,880
of the original documents. And it was only in the

262
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,680
last year that actually I went to the University of

263
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:20,279
Sydney library in their record section and was able to

264
00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:26,599
find there was like a doshia written by actually prepared

265
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,599
by Herbert Ramsey. He's the seed merchant or horticulturalist in

266
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,039
the local area, and he'd apparently donated that material to

267
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,079
the library at some point way back in about must

268
00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:45,400
have been the nineteen thirties. And it turned out I

269
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,519
was the first person to look inside that envelope. And

270
00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:53,039
oddly enough, the envelope that he had this material in

271
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:59,119
was a seed packet from the Ramsey and I'm looking

272
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,640
inside this expecting to see anything, but as it turned out,

273
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:08,359
it had an original picture of a airship that Birmingham

274
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,599
was inspired to make based on his vision that he

275
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,680
had in eighteen sixty eight. He described as a vision,

276
00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,000
but he also had a daylight sighting in eighteen seventy two,

277
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,599
and it was a very interesting report historically, no way

278
00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:30,960
to prove it, but it was certainly exciting for me,

279
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,799
after all these many many years to actually hold in

280
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:38,759
my hands his original drawing of the airship that he

281
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,759
was inspired to make based on his experience back in

282
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:47,519
ageen sixty eight and also bitten material by him he went.

283
00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:51,599
He tried to sell his idea of an airship around

284
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,880
Paramatta and then New South while diking you too much interest,

285
00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:59,839
but he actually went to the United States and around

286
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,799
the that in the eighteen eighties and was there trying

287
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:09,359
to get people interested in his project. A lot of

288
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:14,160
competition back in those days for early yearships.

289
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 2: Very very interesting.

290
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,799
Speaker 1: Now, before we move on to you know, postnighteen forty

291
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:23,519
seven and get back into other things that you research,

292
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,519
there was also another thing you researched. That was the

293
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,319
nineteen twenty seven fern fern Veil, Ferndale Markman tape situation.

294
00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:35,480
Can you talk about that?

295
00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fern Vale event from nineteen twenty seven was

296
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:44,599
a really interesting one. I'd heard about it courtesy of

297
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,440
the Queensland Group, the Queensland Flying Source of Research Bureau

298
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,440
or it's now called UFO Research Queensland, and they didn't

299
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,319
one of their members told me about it, but maybe

300
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,720
the group seemed to be particularly interested in investigating it.

301
00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:04,519
But I took an immediate interest in it, mainly because

302
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:08,440
it was a very striking story. And I made contact

303
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,440
with the gentleman, who was ten years old at the time,

304
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,920
in nineteen twenty seven, and I set off a letter

305
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:18,799
and there was sort of silence for I think a

306
00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:20,519
couple of months, and out of the blue came this

307
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,440
long letter about I think about fifteen pages. They were

308
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:30,160
about handwritten in which he went to great detail describing

309
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,960
the events and essentially his family, his parents were running

310
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,519
there like sheer farmers, or they were hired to operate

311
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:45,240
a dairy farm, and also there were pigs there that

312
00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:47,359
were fattened up and that was the main sort of

313
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,839
money supply ultimately, and so they are quite poor at

314
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:57,640
the time. But it was there living on the property.

315
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:04,039
But what they observed was apparently a disc that flew

316
00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:09,000
over the property, traveled down the valley and then appeared

317
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:19,319
to land nearby. The family members and several locals visited

318
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:25,359
that location and they found a circular burnmark on the

319
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,759
side of the hill within viewing distance of the property itself,

320
00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:34,920
and so that sort of was quite striking. Initially they

321
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,119
had never seen anything quite like it, an object that

322
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,880
appeared to be able to fly. It had no wings,

323
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,440
with a dish shaped looking thing, and it landed on

324
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:55,039
nearby hill. Now that was observed at night time. And

325
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,599
also there was other activity that seemed to herald a

326
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,319
lot of unusual activity on that property, which involved the

327
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:09,440
presence of people that you have to remember that back

328
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,039
in nineteen twenty seven at Wollombar or nearby Wollombar, there

329
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:18,160
was no real extensive usage of motor vehicles. That was

330
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:25,279
a new thing. There was a lot of dairy farming

331
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:28,200
and that kind of thing, but motor cars were a

332
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:31,039
rare thing. And yet during all this event, which it

333
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,599
took place over a two week period, there was a

334
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,400
strange motor vehicle that turned up onto the property, drove

335
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,599
onto the property. There were unusual people that would turn up,

336
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,039
almost like a men in black type parallel. So it

337
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:56,000
was a very unusual event. And there was also the

338
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:59,680
presence of what appeared to be a birdlike creature that

339
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,960
seem to stand on two legs. This was quite large,

340
00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:07,720
the size of the I don't know, very very large penguin.

341
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:16,079
And both the gentleman that talked to me in later

342
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:24,359
life and his brother witnessed what sounded like strange cackling

343
00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:28,519
or conversation going on. They looked up and they observed

344
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,160
two of these birdlike things passing overhead, very large wings

345
00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:42,000
van and later their father or the gentleman's father asked

346
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:46,000
him to go out into the muddy road. There was

347
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:50,519
no bitchman there to retrieve the boots of a neighbor

348
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,599
who the night before had had a very frightening encounter

349
00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:59,920
with a birdlike creature the sides of a large penguin

350
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,279
that terrified the life out of this local guy so

351
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,359
much so that he ended up uprooting and taking his

352
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,720
whole family and leaving the area in terror. So it

353
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,880
was a lot of weird stuff going on during that

354
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,359
period of time. So a very striking event all played

355
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,920
out in nineteen twenty seven, twenty years before Kenneth Arnold's

356
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,440
historic siting in nineteen forty seven. And what was really

357
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,279
quite crazy, wasn't it, Saga.

358
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: It's okay, keep going.

359
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:39,559
Speaker 3: Yepker. What was very striking at the time was that

360
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:46,640
he he was an elderly gentleman when I spoke to him,

361
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:49,480
in his eighties. But I was able to go to

362
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:54,799
the location and talk to locals that were aware of

363
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:59,720
this event, and was able to be taken to the

364
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:04,960
act locations shown the property and get all this sort

365
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,319
of extra information. So there was a degree of confirmation

366
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:15,000
through the local community this family had this experience that

367
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,000
the location, the property was the scene of all this

368
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,720
kind of bizarre activity. But the big impact on the

369
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:29,799
farm and the local community was that that I mentioned earlier,

370
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:32,480
the fat and pigs, which was the main money supply

371
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:39,759
for the family. Actually, the pigs were apparently attacked during

372
00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:43,799
the night and several of them were killed, and in

373
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:46,200
some cases the only thing left of the pigs was

374
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:52,839
a large pool of blood in the pig sty and around,

375
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,920
as if somehow whatever was there had taken the pigs

376
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,599
out of the sty and these big pigs and had

377
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,440
essentially consumed them or whatever taken them somewhere, but the

378
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,200
only remains were a pool of blood and evidence of

379
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,799
peak and that kind of thing. So it was a

380
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,960
very bizarre event. A lot of disturbance amongst the local

381
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,640
local cattle, the dairy bomb that they had, so there

382
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,279
was quite a huge impact on the local community. You

383
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:25,880
have to bear in mind this was a remote kind

384
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:32,519
of farming community, many dairy and stocks of pigs and

385
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,920
that kind of stuff. That was a very unusual and

386
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,279
frightening event for the family and the local community.

387
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: M Uh yeah, we've got a bus of hesitation your

388
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,599
We are ten thousand miles apart or so thereabouts, and

389
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,559
so there is a little bit of a lag. But

390
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,480
so just keep that in mind if you're listening. But

391
00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,960
uh so, I want to ask you. I'm going to

392
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,079
kind of put you on the spot and just ask you,

393
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,200
what is your the case that you really thought was spectacular,

394
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,039
that you invested, when you personally investigated that you really

395
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,440
enjoyed and you like to actually talk about.

396
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're really putting me on the spot. Because I've

397
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,519
got so many cases that fall into that kind of category,

398
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,039
I'll just choose one. Choose one, Okay. One of the

399
00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:33,240
most interesting ones for me would be the landing type

400
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:38,079
case that the curtain Rosedale at nineteen eighty And why

401
00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:41,640
I'm attracted to that was being having a chemist background,

402
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:47,960
I was intrigued by the indication there was physical evidence

403
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,559
at the site that kind of thing. A caretaker on

404
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:55,680
the property at Rosedale in the Gibson area Victoria had

405
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:05,599
actually witnessed what he first noticed as a sound disturbance,

406
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,079
like some sort of aircraft coming in a high pitched

407
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:15,680
whining noise. He comes out of the caretaker house that

408
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:19,720
he had on this property, and thinking that there was

409
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:23,759
some aircraft in trouble, looks out and sees what appeared

410
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:27,559
to be a dishshaped object, a dome thing with what

411
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,440
appeared to be portholes around it, about twenty eight feet

412
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,000
in diameter, and he observed that, passing low over the property,

413
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,319
it seemed to be heading towards a hay barn, quite

414
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,000
a large hay barn, and then it seemed to deviate

415
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:50,240
just to avoid colliding with the hay barn, and then

416
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:54,640
it seemed to go down another half a mile or

417
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,119
so to the next paddock where there was a ten

418
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,400
thousand gallon water tank. This object appeared to sit on

419
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,480
top of the water tank. It came to a stop

420
00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:08,839
over the water tank, and then it appeared to slowly

421
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,680
move off the water tank and land on the ground

422
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:18,759
adjacent to the water tank. And what the caretaker who

423
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,160
can see and observe was the cattle and horses on

424
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,240
the property were in a state of total mayhem. They

425
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,680
were bellowing and carrying on. It was a huge disturbance

426
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,799
on the property. And as the caretaker, and we're talking

427
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:38,920
about midnight thereabouts, he realized he had to investigate, and

428
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,759
so off he goes on a mote of bike, driving

429
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:50,799
along or riding along to the adjacent paddock. He could

430
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:56,319
see that the livestock was tremendously disturbed. He goes through

431
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,640
into the open paddock, could still see the object on

432
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,279
the ground. And the closer he got, the clear it

433
00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:07,799
became that this was not a helicopter or an aircraft

434
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:12,279
or a vehicle of any mundane prosaaric origin. This was

435
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:16,720
clearly some sort of dish shaped object of a fairly

436
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:19,559
substantial size, as I said, about twenty eight to thirty

437
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:23,440
feet in diameter. And he got to it and about

438
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:30,759
say about thirty or forty feet, and he started to

439
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:33,799
get very intimidated by what he was looking at. He's

440
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,680
sitting there, he stops, and he's there on his legs.

441
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,359
I'm sort of sitting with the motorbike and using his

442
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,680
legs to maintain balance, and at that point the object

443
00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:50,720
suddenly rose up and tilted towards him so he could

444
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,680
see the base of the object, and then he was

445
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:56,039
hit by what seemed to be a blast of hot air,

446
00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:00,559
and from the bottom of the object, all this debris

447
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:04,720
started to fall, and that debris consisted of cow patties

448
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:08,839
or cow droppings. They quite a thing dried out, and

449
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,920
you have to remember this time, it was during a

450
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,920
period of a heat wave, and there was a lot

451
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:22,920
of kind of loss of water, and so the caretaker's

452
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:26,759
critical role was to ensure that there was plenty of

453
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:33,039
water available in the water tank, and he used to

454
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,720
check that by loving a stone or something like that

455
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:38,640
into the water tank to make sure that he could

456
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:42,319
hear that there was a large amount of water still

457
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:45,319
present in the water tank. What he found on this

458
00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:49,519
occasion was that the water tank itself had drained. But

459
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,319
these were discoveries that were in the following day. But

460
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:58,200
with the object turning, it hit him with that blast

461
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,839
of lot. Here it slowly moved away and followed in

462
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,559
a slow movement off into the distance and disappeared into

463
00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:12,680
the night. Needless to say that the caretaker was shocked, disorientated,

464
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,720
started to experience all sort of physiological effects, very dramatic sighting,

465
00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:22,000
with lots of physical evidence, a lot of ground trace evidence.

466
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,279
And the beauty of this case for me as a

467
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:31,759
physical scientist was that all the physical evidence kind of

468
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:35,160
connected with the sequence of events that we reported, so

469
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,000
it was like all the physical eleveents in the verify

470
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:45,079
what the caretaker was reporting. So incredibly striking case. Missel

471
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,680
Keith Bastabille and a local associate in Melbourne visited that

472
00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:57,559
site in late December of the same year and the

473
00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:04,240
caretaker took us through the whole event, recreated the sighting.

474
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:06,720
We spent all day with him and collected lots of

475
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,159
physical evidence, and the analysis of those results was it

476
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,199
didn't come up with anything unknown or unexplainable, but it

477
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,119
had supported the fact that he was a real physical

478
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:25,039
event that somehow, whatever the object was, it created a disturbance,

479
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:29,039
not only on the ground. The only clear difference was

480
00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:33,400
a difference in chloroid levels. It was like a ring

481
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,400
shaped effect. The media got involved. The Channel nine that

482
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,639
one of the local TV networks flew over took a

483
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:45,239
helicopter shot of the ground trace. So there's a lot

484
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,559
of evidence there that we had to deal with. And

485
00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:52,800
and also it turned out that there was a parcel

486
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,719
delivery van that went by during the night and it

487
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:06,280
was observed by the ataker and he apparently stopped on

488
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,519
the side of the road and appeared to have seen

489
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:12,239
the object on the ground as well. And there was

490
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,079
a young girl living on a neighboring property that also

491
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:20,760
witnessed possibly the same object during the night when she

492
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,599
woke up for a short time. So there was a

493
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:29,639
lot of independent evidence confirming I guess the reality of

494
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:32,920
the events. As to what it was, it was very

495
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,000
hard to determine that. But that's one of my favorite

496
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,519
physical trace cases. Apart from Tully and apart from Westall

497
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,079
that they were all these kind of quite striking, well

498
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:50,440
documented cases. I went beyond that and started to look

499
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,239
at physical levelence for the much more controversial end of

500
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,239
the viewer place spectrum that was aid in abduction. So

501
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,360
I started to investigate these sorts of cases, and LUCKI

502
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,039
and enough to have physical evidence in one such case,

503
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,800
that's the Preticuri case, which I think I've talked to

504
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,440
you a bit about before. That was probably one of

505
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:16,199
the most enduring and detailed case investigations that are done

506
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,239
in particularly in the alien production area.

507
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: Hmm. Now, we have a lot in these states.

508
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: We have a lot of cases, not a lot, but

509
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,760
there are a number of them where they there are

510
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,480
police involved. And do you have are there any good

511
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:38,360
cases in Australia where there's police involved.

512
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,599
Speaker 3: Well, look, there are quite a few. Like the one

513
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:47,639
of the cases that introduced me to the subject here

514
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:50,400
in the local area of Grafton and my hometown in

515
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,280
nineteen sixty six was sightings by local police officers who

516
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,679
were police officer at least three jurisdictions on the North Coast.

517
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,159
There was the Grafton area, the Casino area and the

518
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:10,559
Lismore area, so three different localities where police officers were

519
00:37:10,599 --> 00:37:15,079
involved in actually chasing UFOs across the countryside. A lot

520
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:19,000
of it was put down to astronomical explanations, but when

521
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:27,119
you have objects sort of hopping into paddocks, landing and

522
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:30,920
taking off, it's very difficult to reconcile that with astronomical

523
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,960
explanations that kind of thing. So there were those sort

524
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,159
of police were related cases in nineteen sixty six. Obviously

525
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,400
I wasn't directly investigating those cases as a youngster. But

526
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,719
the probably one of the more striking police events would

527
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,039
have been from nineteen eighty three in a Melbourne suburb

528
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:03,000
called Melton, and it was a quite a striking case.

529
00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:09,000
It got wide publicity, was reported in the media, reported

530
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:14,119
in the papers, and providentially I got the opportunity to

531
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:16,280
talk to the police officers that had spent half a

532
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:23,000
night on their night shift chasing a UFO across the

533
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:27,320
local area. Now we're talking an outer Melbourne suburb, Melton,

534
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:31,920
and the police claimed that this thing looked like a

535
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:40,079
Harrier jet but was capable of hovering and reversing. So

536
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:42,960
there was a lot of complexity to the case and

537
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,639
the witnesses were obviously quite credible. Indeed, the police officers

538
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,679
reported to the local station that the object was heading

539
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,960
towards the police station and they were suggesting to the

540
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,199
death stage to get outside and look and observed, to

541
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:05,119
see if you could see the object approaching. And indeed

542
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:07,920
he went out to the front of the police station

543
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,039
and witnessed the object coming over the police station hovering.

544
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,000
To him, it was unexplainable and it was the same

545
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:20,280
deal with the police officers are out in patrol trying

546
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,840
to capture this object to try and corner it, but

547
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,000
it just kept eluding them over the space of an

548
00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,920
hour or two. So once again a very complicated sighting

549
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,800
that had a lot of police witnesses and entirely intrigue

550
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,760
them with wonder One of the bizarre aspects that at

551
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,239
one point the police were following this object and there's

552
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:53,480
a facility called Rock Bank which is a military intelligence

553
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,280
listing array site, so there were various antennas and that

554
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:05,400
kind of stuff that we use for monitoring of various

555
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:12,880
target sites, mainly overseas type intelligence gathering, that kind of thing.

556
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,719
So it was a very sensitive sight and during that

557
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,400
night the police witnessed the object that they had been

558
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,360
pursuing up to an hour an hour and a half

559
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,960
thereabouts during the night actually approached the main entenre array

560
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,079
of this military facility. It seemed to be moving towards

561
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,440
the intenre array, looked as though if it kept going

562
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,840
it would collide with the intenre array, got quite close

563
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,400
and then started to slowly reverse and come back, and

564
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,440
so it was a very striking case. And it was

565
00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:52,599
that particular aspect of the sighting that created a huge

566
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:57,239
amount of controversy and concern amongst the military intelligence community,

567
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,559
and that's why it became the target of a lot

568
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:06,559
of official investigations. The RF investigated providentially. When I rang

569
00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:12,559
the the police station at the time, there were afternoon

570
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:18,519
newspapers and the event was being reported in the afternoon newspapers,

571
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:22,880
and that's how I learned about the event, and I

572
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,039
immediately called the police station. It turned out the police

573
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:32,079
involved in the chase were just coming off shift and

574
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,480
the sergeant, who was also a witness, who I spoke to,

575
00:41:35,519 --> 00:41:36,960
and I said, do you want to talk to them?

576
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,679
I said, of course, and so I was talking to

577
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:46,480
them fresh off the shift. And so therefore this was

578
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:52,800
a very sort of pretty quick follow up of the case.

579
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:58,079
And to me, it was very impressive. The police officers

580
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:03,039
were quite credible and let on the double if and

581
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,400
other authorities were investigating the case as well. So that's

582
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,239
a that's a pretty stroking police case.

583
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,039
Speaker 2: Hmm. That is great.

584
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for enlightening us on that. I have a

585
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:23,239
question this person change she is in actually in Australia,

586
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,880
and she wanted to know basically, if you're going to

587
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,280
go to the sixtieth Westall Annual next year.

588
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 3: I certainly would sorry, yeah, I'd certainly like to be

589
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:39,239
going to that event, and I'm looking forward to it

590
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,119
and I'm trying to schedule that in so there'll be

591
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:47,079
a lot of people interested in going to that anniversary event, right,

592
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,599
that's actually yes.

593
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So I guess I want to touch on

594
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,840
another case, you know, as I mentioned earlier. But before

595
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,159
I do, I just want to just say a couple

596
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:05,000
of things here because I have some people coming up

597
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,840
this Thursday. For this is everyone for watching here now

598
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,480
or listening. I have a Ryan Krilick on craiglik On

599
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:14,719
at Thursday at.

600
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 2: Eight pm coming up this week. Next week we have

601
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:24,000
a Philip of Lee do I think his name is?

602
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,639
Speaker 1: He is He's produced a UFO video and we're gonna

603
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:31,719
be talking about what inspired him to do that. Next week, actually,

604
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,679
on Thanksgiving, I'm gonna put this Thanksgiving look up that

605
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,400
on the screen.

606
00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: We have Thanksgiving here.

607
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:41,199
Speaker 1: In the United States, and so that day I'm actually

608
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,559
running a show that's Thursday. It's going to be a

609
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:48,199
pre recorded show with Professor Matthew Shadegis.

610
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: He is.

611
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,119
Speaker 1: He's at a university U Albany, and they were just

612
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:58,440
funded for a UFO research, which I think is fantastic.

613
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,159
So Matthew will be on you can hear them. I

614
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:03,519
know a lot of people get bored here on Thanksgiving

615
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,000
night after they had their turkey dinner, so they're looking

616
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,519
for something to do. So I invite you to come

617
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:11,920
and check that out. I will be in chat if

618
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,000
I can be here, and that's next week on Thursday.

619
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:19,280
But thank you for that. So, Bill, if you would

620
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,639
just entice us on another one of the cases that

621
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:26,880
you really enjoyed. Now before you go there, I know

622
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,880
you did some DNA research.

623
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: Is that something that you think was a fascinating case.

624
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the day you're referring to was the Pretty Cury case.

625
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,599
And I write a whole book divided to that. I

626
00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:43,880
think people I do understand that this is a very

627
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,280
complex case, and I write the book mindly. Is a

628
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,599
kount of why this is. The book was cool here

629
00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:53,199
the island. You can see it in the background. The

630
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,760
book was really a caise study, and it was a

631
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:05,159
designed to attract people through attention and also to highlight

632
00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:08,760
the fact that even in cases that involved only an abduction,

633
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:16,119
there was the possibility of potentially retrieving physical evidence in

634
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:20,000
this case, it was in the form of a biological sample,

635
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:26,039
a hair sample ostensibly from what appeared to be female

636
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:33,400
beings associated with this rather controversial and striking case. And

637
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:39,360
it's a fairly confronting kind of story. But a bit

638
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,559
of Curry was originally from Lebanon as a young child,

639
00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:49,000
emigrated to Australia, got into the building industry, was involved

640
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,079
in a lot of cement rendering and that kind of stuff,

641
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:58,519
and he was probably the most unlikely UFI abductee person

642
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:04,360
that you would have, but he had this encounter, as

643
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:10,039
it turned out, a series of encounters nineteen eighty eight,

644
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,159
nineteen ninety two and another rather associated events. And that's

645
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:18,280
why it's very difficult to summarize. And so I encourage

646
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,280
people whither read the book or go to my main

647
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,559
osphial site put in Peter Curi's name. There's also a

648
00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:30,360
connected site that I have that you can access via

649
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,320
the Osphile's website that I've got call the Alien DNA

650
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,199
Paradigm site, and that has a whole lot of information.

651
00:46:41,519 --> 00:46:44,039
I know. It's the case has been the subject of

652
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:48,960
a lot of attention lately and people down here in

653
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:54,440
Australia wonder why it's taken so long for I guess

654
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:57,840
the general UFO scene, particularly in the United States, to

655
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:03,039
be aware of this case. You know, I had a

656
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:09,320
book published by a US publisher in two thousand and five.

657
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,159
Multiple reports I've written on the case from the year

658
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:19,440
two thousand and Actually nineteen ninety nine was the first

659
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:26,480
written detailed account in terms of the Allenheinech organization. That's

660
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:29,360
in a few of FASE studies. International UFO Reporter published

661
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,280
a paper by me called Strange Evidence. So there's been

662
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,800
this sequence of investigations, both of the nineteen eighty eight case,

663
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:42,280
nineteen ninety two case which led to the discovery of

664
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,280
the hair sample, and so to me, it's a very

665
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:52,559
strong evidential series of cases that support the reality of

666
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:57,719
this case and the DNA and a lot of people

667
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,639
misunderstand that the DNA evidence, and I really encourage people

668
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,519
to dig into the detail. And that's why when I

669
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:10,920
published the book, I wanted to make sure that the

670
00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:18,079
detailed report and analysis by the biochemists involved was there

671
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:21,880
as an appendix, so that anybody with a biochemistry background

672
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,400
could read that report and know that it was done

673
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,920
by experience biochemist at the time of the book publication,

674
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:36,559
I wasn't able to identify the key people involved, and

675
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,800
as it stands now, the main coordinating scientist has come out,

676
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,440
and that's doctor Horace Drew, who was formerly a member

677
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:52,920
of the major science resource organization called the CSRO in Australia.

678
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,519
So he's one of the chief biochemists, well credentialed scientist,

679
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,400
the co author of one of the standard textbooks for

680
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:10,400
biochemists are called Understanding DNA, so impressive credentials. But he

681
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:15,440
was the main guy supervising this investigation in terms of

682
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,119
the biochemistry, and there were a number of analysts involved,

683
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,320
but we've decided that the identity of some of the

684
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:32,880
other biochemist is not appropriate to share. So the data

685
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,760
is there. The information has been verified to a circinxtent

686
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,079
and it seemed to imply that in the hair sample

687
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:48,360
it appeared to be of a hybrid nature. And this

688
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:51,079
is something that people need to understand. That people get

689
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:55,880
hung up on the basically thinking that they understand the

690
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,559
DNA investigation, but most people don't seem to the time

691
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:05,079
to examine the detail. And we did it in a

692
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:09,800
couple of phases. We examined the hair shaft. It showed

693
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:14,960
an Asian mongoloid DNA type sequence present in the hair

694
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,840
shaft and in the root of the hair, which we

695
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:23,639
did subsequently it seemed to show a different sequence. And

696
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:28,000
that kind of anomaly between the shaft and the root

697
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:33,480
of the hair sample shouldn't be occurring in normal human

698
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,719
hair or human DNA, and yet here we had evidence

699
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:43,519
of what appeared to be a hybrid sample, very unusual

700
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,159
and that certainly intrigued the biochemists that were involved in

701
00:50:48,159 --> 00:50:51,800
the investigation as well. I should remind folks that I'm

702
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,880
not a biochemist. I'm an industrial chemist and trained in

703
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:01,719
industrial inorganic chemistry, and so I had a fairly rapid

704
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,800
learning curve to acquaint myself in biochemistry. You know, I

705
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,960
wasn't completely unexposed to buy chemistry, but certainly I had

706
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,960
good people to guide me through this process. And so

707
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:19,880
we've had a lot of opportunities to verify and review

708
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:26,360
the DNA work. And so to those that want the detail,

709
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:28,960
read the book here of the Alien, or go to

710
00:51:29,519 --> 00:51:32,599
my site at in DNA Paradigm, which you can access

711
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:38,480
via the asphals blog site. That I've got very complicated mes.

712
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,119
Speaker 1: Yes, hang on, there we go so yes, Wow, that's yeah.

713
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,239
So I encourage people to go to the website and

714
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,360
we'll have that in.

715
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,079
Speaker 2: The show notes, So check that out.

716
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking a bill that a New

717
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,039
Zealand is like, I don't know, fifteen hundred two thousand

718
00:51:57,119 --> 00:51:59,480
miles away offshore from.

719
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: Where you're at.

720
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: And do you ever look into any cases in New Zealand.

721
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:12,679
Speaker 3: Well, there's been a long history of well established UFO

722
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:16,199
groups in New Zealand, and Suzy Hansen's one of the

723
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:23,679
more prominent researchers. In fact, she's an experiencer herself. And

724
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,559
you know, there have been a lot of intriguing cases

725
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:31,440
and I've been to New Zealand and investigated a number

726
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,679
of those kind of cases. One of the most interesting

727
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,920
cases for me was a whole complicated series of events

728
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,000
that played out at a location called Gisborne on the

729
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:47,440
North Island. And these are events that took place mainly

730
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:54,519
during the nineteen seventies and involved a number of people

731
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:59,480
claiming to have had close up class close camera events

732
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:06,880
and alien induction experiences. Probably the most concentrated grouping of

733
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:10,960
abduction related cases that I've come across in my experience

734
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:15,519
are all located in this Gisborne area, and people need

735
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:20,960
to understand that New Zealand is earthquake prone and that

736
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:23,760
kind of stuff. And there's a lot of speculation that

737
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,280
maybe this accounts for a lot of the UFI activity,

738
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,719
but again it's all speculation. But one thing for sure,

739
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,079
the Gisborne location, particularly during the nineteen seventies and in

740
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:38,320
the eighties, has been the location of a lot of

741
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:47,679
ongoing UFI activity and an incredibly high concentration of UFI

742
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:52,599
abduction type reports as well. And having talked to some

743
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:58,039
of the key witnesses who experienced all this, I was

744
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:03,239
quite impressed with the quality of witnesses and it's hard

745
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,559
not to be interested in that kind of complex case,

746
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:12,280
and it provides a lot of evidence for the possible

747
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,000
reality of these kinds of events.

748
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

749
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: So, after all your years of research, what patterns or

750
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:25,880
consistencies do you see across like historic cases compared to

751
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,159
modern Are there any consistencies?

752
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:39,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, you ask all the easy questions Martin, but the

753
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:45,079
phenomenon I think has been extraordinariy robust. There's a lot

754
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:50,360
of consistency in terms of comparing current data. People argue

755
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:59,800
that it's all about kind of orbs and rather distant encounters.

756
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,079
But really the evidence when you start to dig into it,

757
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:08,480
the robust nature of the UFO phoenomen and the physical encounters,

758
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,639
the close encounters with large structure structured objects, that continues.

759
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:18,480
It's just that it's harder and harder for researchers to

760
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:20,840
stay on top of these kinds of cases because they're

761
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,920
being reported to all sorts of diverse locations. You know,

762
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:28,840
even Australian cases get reported to US sites and very

763
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,880
rarely does that information come back. We have to go

764
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,079
chasing all that kind of events. So there's still a

765
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:39,000
lack of coordination. But there's no doubt that the phenomenon

766
00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:45,559
is robust. It's been continuous, it has very similar enduring characteristics.

767
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:52,599
Over the decades, there was a period of robust openness

768
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:57,519
with regard to abductiony forwards. Some people believe that the

769
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:00,800
controversy has died out, that there are no cases, but

770
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,320
there are many abduction cases still ongoing, quite striking cases,

771
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,480
and most of those don't get reported to the general

772
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:14,880
media simply because of the I guess, the problems of

773
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:21,760
people being socially isolated by it, the stigma of it

774
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,320
that kind of thing. But the abduction phenomenon seems to

775
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,599
be real and enduring, and certainly the close encounter events

776
00:56:29,639 --> 00:56:33,760
are real and enduring as well. Anybody who says that

777
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,960
it's all about orbs and lights in the sky that

778
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:42,039
kind of stuff haven't really gotten into the deep dive

779
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:46,760
yet and that they need to understand that it's ongoing phenomenon,

780
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,719
and it is really good thing to see that there's

781
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,960
a high level of interest, even government interests in America.

782
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,400
Here in Australia, own government seems to put the head

783
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,360
in the sand like the proper wall streets, and they're

784
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:09,599
not encouraging open official investigations. I stopped at quotes on Walligoe,

785
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:14,760
but estain's clear evidence that is ongoing military interest as well,

786
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,599
based on more contacts with various people and others that

787
00:57:18,639 --> 00:57:23,599
have had similar connections as well. I don't know where

788
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:29,360
that aims going on, and it's an enduring, remarkable phenomenon

789
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,280
that's worldwide.

790
00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: Right right, So you know the buzzword, I see there's

791
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,599
a question in chatting and ask that in just a minute,

792
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:45,079
But here the buzzword is NHI. Non human intelligence is

793
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:48,800
already one particular case that you would you could say

794
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,440
that there was definitely something that appeared to be a

795
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:53,679
non human intelligence.

796
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: Well, again, the the Pedicury case is a remarkable example.

797
00:58:00,159 --> 00:58:07,639
Love that the case is incredibly controversial, confronting, and yet

798
00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:11,760
here we have DNA evidence that not only supports the case,

799
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,760
but seems to give controversial hybrid DNA evidence that supports it.

800
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,039
You know, surely that would be a wake up call

801
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:25,679
of people. Rather than ridicule these kinds of cases, they

802
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:29,239
should be examining it and looking at it in a

803
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:34,000
minded scientific way. And in Petericuru's case, I have to

804
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,360
say that the evidence supports it rather than detracts from it.

805
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,599
So I'm sure that there will be people here that

806
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,840
will attack the case. They've been doing that for decades, etc.

807
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:48,960
We're used to that. But more often not, those people

808
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:53,079
that are negative about the case happening bothered to look

809
00:58:53,079 --> 00:58:58,000
at the details. They take all their or all their assumptions,

810
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,159
and yet they don't examine the case in detail. I

811
00:59:02,199 --> 00:59:05,639
find that, you know, pretty bizarre. You know, if you're

812
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:08,760
going to comment about a case, it should be at

813
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,719
least informed about it and understand the basics of it

814
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:15,679
and taken the time to examine it rather than I guess,

815
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:21,039
reveal prejudices that are informed by a lack of being

816
00:59:21,079 --> 00:59:23,920
informed about the subject. You know, so much of that's

817
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:30,679
happening at the moment, people making often quite ridiculous claims

818
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:36,559
and accusations and criticisms, and yet they themselves don't even

819
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:43,000
bother to investigate or research the material. That's bizarre, And

820
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,320
from a scientist point of view, you really need to

821
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,320
be informed. You really need to do the deep dive,

822
00:59:47,639 --> 00:59:50,199
you need to examine the evidence. And there's a lot

823
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,639
of it. Yeah.

824
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:57,239
Speaker 1: To me, that sounds like almost like a smoking gun

825
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,960
type of situation, you know, if the evidence is there.

826
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,840
I mean, I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about

827
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,400
it's not known out there more than it is. And

828
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,719
what you're talking about with the skeptics, as I remember

829
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,599
Stanton Freeman, is to say by proclamation instead of investigation

830
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:18,679
that these people make their comments about.

831
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:24,119
Speaker 3: Well, I think as a researcher, I think you have

832
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:26,199
to get a bit of a thick skin. One gets

833
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,840
used to uninformed commentary that kind of stuff. And I

834
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,960
just wish that people who like to get aggressively involved

835
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:39,920
in various discussions that they are at least informed of

836
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,320
the basic facts of the case, rather than making a

837
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:48,159
knee jerk reaction and an uninformed one. But you know,

838
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:52,519
things are, I guess on the up swing. There's a

839
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:57,400
lot of interest, a lot of acknowledgment of the subject

840
01:00:57,519 --> 01:01:04,519
these days, and so that's encouraging to see. And I

841
01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:10,320
just hope that, particularly more internationally, that there are deeper

842
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,440
and more informed kind of official investigations as well, rather

843
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:19,719
than in our case here in Australia, a suggestion that

844
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,119
there's nothing to it, and yet the history of the

845
01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:26,400
subject in my own country reveals that there's a hell

846
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,360
a lot to it, and a lot of official documentation

847
01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:33,280
that is not well known, and one would hope that

848
01:01:33,679 --> 01:01:36,840
people would spend the time to examine that. I know,

849
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,119
I've been documenting it for decades and it's kind of

850
01:01:40,119 --> 01:01:44,280
frustrating sometimes to see the kind of empty words that

851
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,920
are often expressed I think by politicians and others that

852
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,400
should be better informed in terms of their own government

853
01:01:50,719 --> 01:01:52,639
involvement in the subject over the decades.

854
01:01:55,239 --> 01:01:59,559
Speaker 1: Here's a question for you here, are there any Australia

855
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:04,960
accounts from the years of World War Two in the Pacific,

856
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,800
any involving military art of the.

857
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 3: Day right there, certainly are there are cases. I'm just

858
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,360
trying to think of them off the top of the head.

859
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,360
There it was a case that was quite controversial but

860
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:27,320
involved a bomber pilot who actually went on to become

861
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,960
a member of the Queensland Flying Sorcer Research Bureau I'm

862
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,079
thinking of. I think his name was Ricky Royal, and

863
01:02:36,199 --> 01:02:40,480
he had an experience of encountering he was on a

864
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:44,480
bomber and encountering a UFO. The close proximity of the

865
01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:49,559
UFI affected the electronics of the aircraft. That obviously had

866
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:53,360
a very striking impact on the gentleman concerned Ricky Royal,

867
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,039
so much so that he became one of the foundational

868
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:03,400
members of the Queensland Flying Sources Bureau, both the Queensland

869
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:08,199
Group Andrekie Royal in particular. With a subject of Asia

870
01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:16,039
our attention, that's our domestic Australian Intelligent Security Service. ASIA

871
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:23,119
stands to Australian Security and Intelligence organization. And there was

872
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:27,719
a report done that you can locate in the Government

873
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,840
archives now. It goes in some detail of all the

874
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:35,840
members of the early Flying Source Group in Queensland and

875
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:42,119
it was sometimes not a very well informed or positive

876
01:03:42,199 --> 01:03:46,440
kind of take on them. It seemed like back in

877
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,320
the nineteen fifties everything was kind of subject to the

878
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,159
lens of the red scare communism, that kind of stuff.

879
01:03:54,199 --> 01:04:03,519
Anybody who advocated connections with, for example, Russia. One of

880
01:04:03,559 --> 01:04:09,280
the major cases that historically speaking was the Tunguska case

881
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,000
of a possible UFO event back in nineteen oh eight,

882
01:04:13,519 --> 01:04:16,199
and the Queensland group back in the nineteen fifties actually

883
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:21,880
had the temerity, i say, the foresight to actually directly

884
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:27,159
engage with the Russian signers that were writing reports about

885
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,159
the Gusta case of nineteen o eight, and they got

886
01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:35,440
responses from the Russian scientists that, of course, given the day,

887
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,400
the Cold War era, attracted the attention of our local

888
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:47,880
security organization, which misunderstood why the severe UFO Flying Sources

889
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,039
groups were interested in connecting with Russian authorities. They weren't

890
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:58,760
about spreading communism in Australia, were like me, looking for

891
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:03,920
information about intriguing events. And when a Russian scientist, for example,

892
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:09,599
reports about the Gusta case or Russian cases, naturally researchers

893
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:13,119
alike here in Australia or in America take an interest

894
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,800
and yet intelligence scripts of the day saw that as

895
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:24,639
evidence of communist leadings, that kind of thing, and so

896
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:30,239
it's probably a bit more enlightened these days, but still

897
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:36,800
there's always that misunderstanding that comes from a lack of

898
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:42,239
awareness of what's being examined, what's being researched, and it

899
01:05:42,239 --> 01:05:47,800
can be usually remedied by doing a degree of proper research,

900
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:50,920
being aware of their own files, that kind of stuff.

901
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,159
And that's why I keep reminding various government people that

902
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:56,559
I interact with, have a look at your own file,

903
01:05:56,639 --> 01:06:00,239
so god say, review them. There's plenty of evidence there,

904
01:06:01,079 --> 01:06:04,960
and they keep saying that they've examined the subject, there's

905
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,360
nothing just any scientific merit. And yet their own scientists,

906
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,760
their own pilots, their own defense officials have had their

907
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,079
own sightings, and yet there's no kind of modern awareness.

908
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:20,400
People seem to have a very short term memory when

909
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,119
it comes to the UFA subject. And yet it's all there.

910
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:28,760
It's very enduring phenomenon and plenty of documentation, right right.

911
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:34,039
Speaker 1: Is there another like to say, eventually we're all going

912
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:37,480
to get replaced? Is there another Bill Charker coming up?

913
01:06:37,679 --> 01:06:41,719
I mean, are there any young people really involved in researching.

914
01:06:44,199 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not quite past my years by date yet, Martin,

915
01:06:48,039 --> 01:06:51,039
but I'm still actively interested in doing investigations. But there

916
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:56,119
are a lot of up and coming active investigators. You know,

917
01:06:56,519 --> 01:07:00,639
there was Restulton Morgan, that kind of thing. There's a

918
01:07:00,639 --> 01:07:04,960
lot of newer researchers coming into the scenes. So I'm

919
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:10,920
trying to actively support these researchers and do a lot

920
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,599
of mentoring and that kind of stuff and sharing of information.

921
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,519
So it's great to see that there is no shortage

922
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:21,079
of people that are taking the time to look at

923
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:24,519
the totality of the UFO history but also look at

924
01:07:24,519 --> 01:07:28,440
the modern day phenomenon as well, and trying to do

925
01:07:28,599 --> 01:07:31,599
what I keep emphasizing, the deep dive into the subject,

926
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:35,599
and that means to really get you get into the

927
01:07:35,639 --> 01:07:39,519
subject and do the kind of hard work that's required.

928
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:44,440
A lot of the times, there's so much I guess,

929
01:07:45,159 --> 01:07:49,039
armchair andtification that goes on where it's pretty clear when

930
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:51,360
you listen to some of these people that they haven't

931
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:56,000
done any research. There's just subjective kind of responses and

932
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,599
you're kind of thinking they're getting more attention. It's just ridiculous,

933
01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:09,400
and again I think people should yeah think about things critically, like,

934
01:08:10,239 --> 01:08:13,199
have a listen to the credentials of the people that

935
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:18,239
are making various statements and take the time to carefully

936
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:22,880
consider what these people are saying, what credibility they have,

937
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,119
what kind of background, what kind of research they've done,

938
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:32,119
and then dual conclusions not a major reaction. Yep.

939
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,159
Speaker 2: I think that's wonderful advice.

940
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,159
Speaker 1: And it makes me happy that there's you know, people

941
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:40,680
up and coming and I feel the same, you know,

942
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,520
like I look around, I see that there are younger

943
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,640
people interested, and you know, this is something that you know,

944
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,560
is such a puzzle, a wonderful puzzle try to solve.

945
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,479
So I'm going to kind of end the show on this.

946
01:08:56,279 --> 01:09:00,239
What would be in your world? What you think would

947
01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:04,880
be a really big step forward in the UFO world?

948
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,239
Do you know people always bring up the disclosure thing.

949
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,159
I'm not sure if that's going to happen at any

950
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:13,960
given point, but I mean, what what do you see

951
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,520
would be like a next really good step.

952
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 3: I think open scientific interest that's well funded, that kind

953
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:32,039
of thing. It's pretty evident that it costs money to

954
01:09:32,119 --> 01:09:35,119
do serious investigation, and therefore there's got to be a

955
01:09:35,159 --> 01:09:40,199
degree of funding. But again, there is such.

956
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:46,359
Speaker 4: A a broad base of data, so much to be examined,

957
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:52,359
and yet the standard criticism is where's your evidence?

958
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 3: And my retort to that is that people should be

959
01:09:57,079 --> 01:10:00,119
aware that the evidence is there, look look at it.

960
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,479
It doesn't take much to them to understand that there's

961
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:09,399
a huge body of information that's been there. And yet

962
01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:13,000
you've got this ongoing controversy, and much of it's fed

963
01:10:13,039 --> 01:10:19,000
by uh somewhat well uninformed kind of dialogues and comments

964
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:24,039
that go on in social media. Exactly, if only amount

965
01:10:24,039 --> 01:10:26,960
of effort that's put into some of this commentary, if

966
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,760
only that was actually put into actually seriously examining the

967
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,520
subject and reviewing the documentation, that that would be a

968
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:41,279
major advance. And there's lots of organizations that are coming

969
01:10:41,279 --> 01:10:45,600
into play that have been newly formed, doing a lot

970
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:50,479
of good work, and it's pretty easy to recognize those.

971
01:10:51,359 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 2: Yep.

972
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,600
Speaker 3: It's a fairly positive situation that's getting better and better.

973
01:10:58,399 --> 01:10:59,840
M m hm.

974
01:11:00,079 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: Yes, well, Bill, I got to say, it's been such

975
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,399
a pleasure and I hope to have you back one day.

976
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 2: You've just been you know, you've been a real.

977
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: Positive thing in the UFO field in general, and like

978
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,279
I mentioned in the very beginning. Charles Lear, who does

979
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:21,000
all my blogs and he does a lot of historic work.

980
01:11:21,359 --> 01:11:24,000
He's brought you into his the blogs that he writes

981
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,840
many times because of your wonderful research. And I just

982
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,119
want to thank you for all that you've done.

983
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:32,520
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Glad to be appreciated.

984
01:11:34,079 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: Yes, you are all right. So that's it for our

985
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,399
show tonight. Thank you all very much, and we'll be

986
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:44,199
back this Thursday with Ryan Kralik, and also next week

987
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:47,439
we have our guests coming up even on Thanksgiving, so

988
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,800
remember to keep your eyes to this guy every d