Speaker 1: Okay, we've got shooters here, shooters here. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: don't trig Hey, what's your probably?
Speaker 2: Draw it again? Draw it again? Here the ace field man.
Speaker 2: Draw it again. It's a simple diagram. Just draw it again.
Speaker 2: Draw what you saw? Draw it again, Draw it again.
Speaker 3: Two shooters.
Speaker 1: Car comes through here, shooters across from each other, kill
Speaker 1: each other dead.
Speaker 3: Oh my, where'd you learn that?
Speaker 2: Huh?
Speaker 4: In a regiment?
Speaker 2: What regiment was that?
Speaker 1: The twenty second Special Air Service? What's the color of
Speaker 1: the boat house?
Speaker 2: In here for?
Speaker 3: What's the color of the boathouse?
Speaker 4: And here for at all?
Speaker 1: You're at the color of the boat color?
Speaker 2: You got my arm? Go ahead, shothing.
Speaker 4: Tell me about an ambush.
Speaker 2: Tell me about an ambush.
Speaker 5: You'll get your money when we get the kiss.
Speaker 2: The other's two. That is what I understood.
Speaker 5: Come on, we've gotten the word. We're moving.
Speaker 2: Welcome to cinem Ego, a podcast all about expanding the
Speaker 2: cinematic horizons of its home.
Speaker 4: Matt, My god, I haven't been fucked like that since Great.
Speaker 2: School, Rob, Do I feel lucky?
Speaker 4: Plump? Do you?
Speaker 2: And hydro Bern? Plump?
Speaker 4: Fuck? Why younger than what? Listen, lady, what's our review?
Speaker 4: Is it? Something old, is it something new? Is it foreign?
Speaker 4: How many reviewers? Is it just Heideberg, Matt and Rob.
Speaker 4: If it's gonna be amateur night, then the review of
Speaker 4: the film has got to be my choice. It's got
Speaker 4: to be John Frankenheimer's Ronan, and everyone here has got
Speaker 4: to review it.
Speaker 2: Are cigarette?
Speaker 4: So yeah, we we are gonna be covering nineteen ninety
Speaker 4: eight's Ronan, directed by John Frankenheimer. Have any of you
Speaker 4: guys seen this film before?
Speaker 2: I have seen this film in the theaters, Uh, the
Speaker 2: first time I released?
Speaker 3: Yes, No, I did not know this movie existed.
Speaker 4: All right, this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 2: Why did you pick it? Rap?
Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 4: This is a film that I saw as soon as
Speaker 4: it was available to rent because this is a film
Speaker 4: that my father was interested in. And I've stated this previously,
Speaker 4: but anything with cars and motorcycles and a good chase
Speaker 4: scene are movies that my dad enjoys. And because of that,
Speaker 4: I've also developed the same love and Ronan is right
Speaker 4: up there with the great chase scenes in cinema history.
Speaker 4: And we've been on a We've been on this really
Speaker 4: weird kick of spy films recently which was not planned.
Speaker 4: But I chose Ronan because it's a very different type
Speaker 4: of spy film, which has more similarities to Les Samurai
Speaker 4: more so than North By Northwest or Atomic Blonde. So
Speaker 4: I wanted to bring this to the Cinamigo's crew and
Speaker 4: see what you guys think about it.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 3: I think it's funny that you think this is a
Speaker 3: spy film, because in my my brain, this is a
Speaker 3: heist film. Yeah, those are different things.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a little bit of both. Yeah, But I
Speaker 2: even thought about that just before, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I was kind of calling it a spy thriller ask
Speaker 2: heist film, and I'm like, it's a little bit more
Speaker 2: heist than spy, but there's spies in it, Like there's
Speaker 2: X spies and spy stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, milange.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is a milange of it's paying a
Speaker 4: tribute to a lot of yeah, paying a lot of
Speaker 4: different tributes to certain types of film. And we'll we'll
Speaker 4: we'll talk about that as we go along. But I uh,
Speaker 4: it's just a really interesting film that I can't wait
Speaker 4: to cover with you guys. But when do we get
Speaker 4: that pended hydroberd spoiler warning and I'll get the synopsis
Speaker 4: and talk about some pre production.
Speaker 2: Nice you hey you yeah you I'm looking at you.
Speaker 2: Don't you daan spoil this movie?
Speaker 4: You freelancing former US intelligence agent tries to try down
Speaker 4: a mysterious package that is wanted by the Irish and
Speaker 4: the Russians.
Speaker 2: All Right, So I saw this movie in the theater
Speaker 2: and it was definitely a movie I remember pretty well
Speaker 2: in the theater. This was a fun I don't know,
Speaker 2: this was like, I guess one of my big boy
Speaker 2: de Niro movies, like when I was able to see
Speaker 2: de Niro films in the theater and Rob you had
Speaker 2: mentioned outside of this recording that this might be one
Speaker 2: of his like last great like films of this nature,
Speaker 2: you know, leading man sort of driven. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I really do feel that this is kind of the
Speaker 4: last great Robert de Niro as we know him from
Speaker 4: all of his past filmography, from like The Godfather or
Speaker 4: Heat stuff like that, where it's like this is in
Speaker 4: that same caliber of acting that we just don't get
Speaker 4: any anymore from him until like The Irishman, but that's
Speaker 4: you know, it's like twenty five years later.
Speaker 2: And a role that's probably specifically written for him as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that, but as far as
Speaker 4: some pre production, our film got its start as a
Speaker 4: screenplay written by John David Syke, who did things like Pistol,
Speaker 4: Whipped the Touch, and the witch Blade TV series, and
Speaker 4: he was inspired by the James Clavell novel Shogun and
Speaker 4: the story of the forty seven Ronin and developed a
Speaker 4: story said in modern times with the philosophies of those
Speaker 4: two stories. Just before filming began, bame screenwriter David Mammont,
Speaker 4: who did things like The Verdict, The Untouchables. Glengarry Glenn
Speaker 4: Ross was brought on to expand certain elements of the story,
Speaker 4: including further developing Robert de Niro's character and developing more
Speaker 4: of a love interest between the de Niro character and
Speaker 4: Natasha mclhaney's character. However, problem developed in dishing out which
Speaker 4: writer was to be credited with what The Writer's Guild
Speaker 4: of America awarded majority credit to psych which Mammoth, the
Speaker 4: more experienced writer, contested, and when he did not win
Speaker 4: the argument, he withdrew his name from the film and
Speaker 4: used the pseudonym Richard Weiss. And as I say that
Speaker 4: this is directed by John Frankenheimer, he's do on films
Speaker 4: like The Train French Connection two in Grand Prix, and
Speaker 4: this was Frankenheimer's penultimate film, as he would pass away
Speaker 4: in two thousand and two. Many of Frankenheimer's films had
Speaker 4: been shot in France, and the director also lived there
Speaker 4: and chose this script because he liked the story and
Speaker 4: felt he could best showcase the real France and through
Speaker 4: that created an interesting pairing of nineties action, spy, thriller
Speaker 4: and neo noir films. Because of his connections in France
Speaker 4: and the desire the powers that be in France wanting
Speaker 4: to make a desired film. Because of his connections in
Speaker 4: France and the desire of the powers that be in
Speaker 4: France wanting to make it a desired filming location for
Speaker 4: Hollywood films, they waived the law that prohibited the firing
Speaker 4: of weapons during film shoots for this film. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: initially Jerry Goldsmith, who we discussed on our Legend episode,
Speaker 4: was commissioned to write the score for the film, but
Speaker 4: left the project. Frankenheimer was given a choice between a
Speaker 4: group of composers and chose check composer Aleah Smiril, who
Speaker 4: had never done a film score before. Well Smyral was
Speaker 4: shown to was shown the final edit of the film.
Speaker 4: The only notes that director gave him was that the
Speaker 4: score had to reflect the themes of sadness, loneliness and heroism,
Speaker 4: and to do that, one of the instruments he used
Speaker 4: was an Armenian is ring called the du Duke, which
Speaker 4: is heard prominently in the main theme of the film. So,
Speaker 4: like when you hear the title thing, that's the yeah,
Speaker 4: that's kind of the yeah. That's the instrument that he's
Speaker 4: using to kind of create that that feel.
Speaker 2: It does sort of I guess maybe it's supposed to
Speaker 2: vote that Japanese sort of vibe a little bit. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 2: But there are times where it feels a little off.
Speaker 2: I could see why though, because you're like, it's supposed
Speaker 2: to be like a heroic moment, a sad moment, you know,
Speaker 2: and sometimes music doesn't fit quite that way exactly. So
Speaker 2: there are a couple of moments where I think, and
Speaker 2: like I said, and this is also a guy who's
Speaker 2: doing a film score for the very first time.
Speaker 4: He had been an accomplished composer, but not really a
Speaker 4: film score.
Speaker 2: It's still good, but there were a couple of moments
Speaker 2: where I noticed it in the beginning, especially where I
Speaker 2: was like, this feels a little weird, like some of
Speaker 2: the music here and there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but when do we dive into the film.
Speaker 2: I just want to say right away, I do like
Speaker 2: that it's Paris, but it's not the Paris we're used to,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the countryside Paris. Like, I like that
Speaker 2: about it, And I also love I love the way
Speaker 2: the movie starts and the way the group meets Matt.
Speaker 2: You might agree with me here. It starts like a
Speaker 2: D and D campaign, much like one. They all meet
Speaker 2: in a pub, they don't know each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Yn a job, I.
Speaker 3: Would say, I like the beginning of this movie is
Speaker 3: probably the weakest part of the movie. The I think
Speaker 3: it's too long to set everything up and then like
Speaker 3: they go on like this side first thing is like
Speaker 3: the site side mission where they're getting to know each other,
Speaker 3: and I feel like, I feel like like it's very
Speaker 3: clunky in it.
Speaker 2: What do you mean in the car like when they
Speaker 2: did the gun job.
Speaker 3: Well, so so the whole the whole bar thing, the
Speaker 3: whole bar thing feels clunky. I like the bar the bar,
Speaker 3: I love the setting. I just I think it could
Speaker 3: have been more smooth out. They could have they could
Speaker 3: have explained to me why I'm along for the ride.
Speaker 3: I felt like I was being Yeah, well but but
Speaker 3: still I feel like I'm being dragged along. I get
Speaker 3: drugged from the bar to the warehouse, I get drug
Speaker 3: from the warehouse to buying the guns, and then when
Speaker 3: we get done buying the guns, I feel like that's
Speaker 3: when the movie actually starts.
Speaker 4: Uh and a degree, Your right, Matt. But here's why
Speaker 4: I think that this does work. And because these are
Speaker 4: these are all mercenaries that are being hired by what
Speaker 4: as far as we know, Deirdre, who will come to
Speaker 4: find out is her name. She's the one who's hiring
Speaker 4: these guys for a mission. So they are meeting at
Speaker 4: this pub and we're going to stand.
Speaker 2: Like cases it out checks this exit strategy choking points
Speaker 2: like that sees who's going in and out for us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, like I said, we're we're getting an idea
Speaker 4: of who our characters are, their personalities. We're meeting at
Speaker 4: this Yeah, we're meeting at this pub, and then we
Speaker 4: are going to the hub like where we're going to
Speaker 4: be working on figuring out this mission, which is getting
Speaker 4: this case, and in doing so we realize, ok, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: once again, Yeah, it's a mcguffin that ultimately we never
Speaker 4: figure out what it is. Yeah, but we One of
Speaker 4: our characters is a requisitions guy, h Vincent, and he is, Okay,
Speaker 4: what are we gonna We know a little bit about
Speaker 4: what we need to do. What are we gonna need
Speaker 4: to do to accomplish that? We need cars, we need guns,
Speaker 4: we need this, we need this technical computer equipment. And
Speaker 4: so in doing that, that's why we go on the
Speaker 4: mission to get the guns.
Speaker 2: Like it shows people's specialties and what each person's bringing
Speaker 2: to the group because they're not all gunmen. And then
Speaker 2: it shows like Sam's very capable, like he seems to know.
Speaker 3: Robert de Niro saves them scenes. As far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2: I feel like you feel dragged along because you are
Speaker 2: thrown in the mix, because you're thrown into Sam's perspective.
Speaker 2: But we don't know much about Sam because he's a spook.
Speaker 3: Well, there's really like three scenes where they are asking
Speaker 3: the Laura Laura's Didra like Dedra. They're asking Didra, Hey,
Speaker 3: so what's going on? And She's like, I can't tell
Speaker 3: you yet, and I'm like, this is the third time
Speaker 3: they're not on.
Speaker 2: They don't need to know, and yeah, it's it's Uh.
Speaker 4: That's one of the things that is a running thing
Speaker 4: of this film because we don't really know who the
Speaker 4: the backers, because Deirdre is not the backers, She's just
Speaker 4: the front man of this group that is hiring these
Speaker 4: guys and we'll find out about that later.
Speaker 3: But man, I like, I feel like I jumped in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, that's I just wanted to give the
Speaker 4: movie a little bit of bail. And maybe because this
Speaker 4: is your first time watching it. See, this is a
Speaker 4: film I've seen. I couldn't tell you how many times.
Speaker 4: So me for what we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna get, yeah, Cloak and Dagger, we don't have all
Speaker 2: the answers exactly.
Speaker 4: And so but like I said, and Matt's going to
Speaker 4: give us a great perspective because this is his first time.
Speaker 4: So I'm looking forward to that. But that, like I said,
Speaker 4: this first scene really sets up some of our characters
Speaker 4: and like their their personalities, especially Sam, who we see
Speaker 4: him as very calculated. He's he's not fucking around and uh,
Speaker 4: as I said earlier, like this is this is our
Speaker 4: first real Robert de Niro film Robert de Niro, who
Speaker 4: plays Sam And like I said, I enjoyed our early episodes,
Speaker 4: the movies that we covered with him.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I guess that's that's a that's a that's a salone movie.
Speaker 4: That's not a de Niro film. DeNiro is plays a
Speaker 4: big he plays a big part in it, but he's
Speaker 4: a supporting character. We see for ten minutes in the film.
Speaker 4: He's not really our main character. This is a de
Speaker 4: Niro film. Yeah, And he and like you like you predicted,
Speaker 4: he was a desired actor for the role and Frankenheimer
Speaker 4: was actually surprised that he was one available and two
Speaker 4: interested in the role. And I like DeNiro. Yeah. DeNiro
Speaker 4: plays like a character that I really love, a character
Speaker 4: that's both intelligent, observing and kind of a smart and
Speaker 4: a smart as I likes like.
Speaker 2: That moment where he's like when Sean Bean's character is like, y'all,
Speaker 2: ever you have killed anybody, and he's like, I heard
Speaker 2: somebody's feelings. Once you know, he's not revealing what he
Speaker 2: who he is. First of all, Sean Bean's character Spencer
Speaker 2: is like a blowhard and instantly you can tell he's.
Speaker 4: We're gonna we are going to talk about that he
Speaker 4: doesn't die.
Speaker 2: He doesn't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, one, I have a I have a theory
Speaker 4: about about his character and too, we'll talk about him
Speaker 4: not dying in this film and how close he did
Speaker 4: come to dying.
Speaker 3: Are you gonna say, Matt, Well, I was just I
Speaker 3: don't think Sam is a smart ass. I think he's
Speaker 3: just he's just no nonsense and he wants to be
Speaker 3: your own business, and he gets when people aren't, like
Speaker 3: when people are goofing off when it's time to work
Speaker 3: the jobs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I like the comments is like what you
Speaker 4: care about saving your own is? All you care about
Speaker 4: is saving your own skins?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, covers my body's my body.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love that. Even Deirdre had to like try not
Speaker 2: to laugh because she's like she can't take a side,
Speaker 2: but she's already a note. Like everybody's noticing that Sam's
Speaker 2: the one in the room to listen to it in
Speaker 2: a way they're not like only Sean Bean's character is
Speaker 2: like you.
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, in a lot of ways, he's the real
Speaker 4: leader of this group.
Speaker 2: He's the one asking the question, like the really important questions,
Speaker 2: but everybody else is capable. The driver guys capable, Larry uh,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 4: And I grew.
Speaker 3: I grew very fond of the driver guy.
Speaker 2: I did too. I wish we got more.
Speaker 3: He has so few lines, and yet I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2: I get he's a stoic guy, and you could tell
Speaker 2: like that's part of his character. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I would have wish they would like talk more about
Speaker 2: their personal lives a little bit. I wish there was
Speaker 2: a little bit more of that. Actually, I get why
Speaker 2: you don't have that, because they're like, you know, we
Speaker 2: can't tell each other who we are. But there is
Speaker 2: a budding friendship between Vincent and Sam. We get that
Speaker 2: early on, and it feels natural too, the way they
Speaker 2: start having a mutual respect for well.
Speaker 4: So I also noticed that the Sam tests some people,
Speaker 4: but not not the ones that we meet in the club,
Speaker 4: and and.
Speaker 2: I think he can't figure out right away, right right.
Speaker 4: And Greg, Gregor and Spence, he tests them and like, oh,
Speaker 4: just kind of like a little thing, like, oh, Gregor
Speaker 4: has really good reflexes. Spence has no idea what the
Speaker 4: fuck is going on.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that himself just by talking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but uh.
Speaker 3: At first I was like, Sean Bee's doing a horrible job.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, Sean Bee is doing a
Speaker 3: great job of making me hate him.
Speaker 2: He seemed like a cokehead.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, like he seemed we're gonna do it, right,
Speaker 3: We're gonna do it.
Speaker 2: Let's go.
Speaker 3: I've I'm sure rob you too. I was in the
Speaker 3: military and I've ran into this guy. Yeah, but to
Speaker 3: think he is the alpha male and he's like he's
Speaker 3: just wanting everyone to think he's cool, so bad that.
Speaker 2: He's in line and learning he's a fucking idiot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: learn when somebody else in the room knows more than
Speaker 2: you and fucking follow their lead. I love that moment too,
Speaker 2: where he's like, yeah, I got this, give me, give
Speaker 2: me some of the money. And I like de Niro
Speaker 2: like he's like, you know what, you think too much?
Speaker 2: He's like, nobody ever told me that before?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: Uh? And I like how he plays that situation, like
Speaker 2: you want us to go in there with you? Nah,
Speaker 2: I don't like. I like how that situation plays because
Speaker 2: it shows our team starting to build. Like Larry pulls
Speaker 2: up in the car. That was smart. He pulls up,
Speaker 2: he grabs whatever guns were there at the deal, you know,
Speaker 2: starts loading up the car like they're starting to be
Speaker 2: a well oiled machine. In a way, I feel like.
Speaker 3: That was Sam give me Sean Bean's character chances to think.
Speaker 3: He's like he's giving him enough, Like are you sure?
Speaker 3: This is why I'm not.
Speaker 2: That's why he tells Vincent too, like all right, you're
Speaker 2: gonna go in there. Here's what you need to know
Speaker 2: if something goes down. And he was right that this is.
Speaker 3: Where you learn. Vincent's Vincent's the fucking RD or die
Speaker 3: good guy. Like he's like this is so stupid, but
Speaker 3: I can't let this little boy get killed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, they're paying me to do this, so
Speaker 2: I have to do it. Yeah, he's got he's got
Speaker 2: some kind of code, you know what I mean. There's
Speaker 2: like a code you could tell.
Speaker 4: The other Yeah. The other thing too, is he is like,
Speaker 4: what what would it What would it benefit you with
Speaker 4: me dying? It's like, well, I need the money. It's
Speaker 4: like the money is right here, you can take the money.
Speaker 2: And then they say it later too, we have the
Speaker 2: money still and he's like yeah, but who you know
Speaker 2: whose money is it? Like who are we who are
Speaker 2: we doing this for Yeah, and that's smart. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: that that reveals that's like him testing Sam as well.
Speaker 2: That might be Vincent testing Sam to see if he
Speaker 2: was the kind of guy who would just take the money, right.
Speaker 4: And uh so we you know, we we have our
Speaker 4: group that going from the pub to the this location
Speaker 4: and that's where we meet our all our other characters.
Speaker 4: I'll kind of introduce all our members of the team
Speaker 4: that we're going to be discussing. And we've we've already
Speaker 4: talked about them a little bit. Yeah, Jehan Jean Renaud
Speaker 4: who plays Vincent. He's been in films like Let Them, Nikita, Leon,
Speaker 4: The Professional, The First Mission, Impossible, and like we we already.
Speaker 2: Talked about by Nikita.
Speaker 4: I have actually not seen the film. I saw the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's film with Jodi Foster. I think it's Jodie Foster.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, wrong actress. Anyway, it's a good movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not said I've seen the show. I've just
Speaker 4: never seen the film. But I like, we've talked about this,
Speaker 4: but I love the friendship that develops between Sam and Vincent.
Speaker 4: But I do have a question for you guys, why
Speaker 4: do you think Vincent initiates the relationship between them.
Speaker 2: What do you mean between Like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because he's the one that kind of approaches Sam
Speaker 4: cigarette cigarette. Yeah, Like what do you just see?
Speaker 2: It's like a professional, an older man who seems to
Speaker 2: know his thing. He's quiet, he seems you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know, like genuine in a way. So I feel
Speaker 2: like he's gravitated towards him.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna do something dangerous with another person, like
Speaker 3: you want to kind of get a you want to
Speaker 3: dial in their character and see what they're like, can
Speaker 3: I really Yeah? And like so they they know immediately
Speaker 3: not to trust Sean Bean's character. But like I feel
Speaker 3: like they go around and they figure everyone else out
Speaker 3: and they're like not not Pop a Scars guard, but
Speaker 3: the driver, the driver, the French Gry and Sam. I
Speaker 3: think those those three right there, they would have been. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're real on each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, because like Vincent's good at getting this stuff,
Speaker 2: the guys good at the getaway stuff. And then you
Speaker 2: got Sam who's just the all round like know it,
Speaker 2: he knows, he knows how to think.
Speaker 3: About when it's time to be how much can we joke?
Speaker 3: You're like like on the prize, but like, let's not
Speaker 3: be Dick's you know, like they're all dialed in together
Speaker 3: and then the other two or outliers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's why he tests Gregor because he's
Speaker 2: sort of like, is this guy KGB or like what
Speaker 2: I don't know. Greg's supposed to be German? Yes, okay,
Speaker 2: that's what. So he's thinking this guy is like probably
Speaker 2: was like some kind of German.
Speaker 4: He's no, actually sorry, he is Russian actually, because he's
Speaker 4: KGB not k s A.
Speaker 2: That's what it is. Yeah, So he's testing them to
Speaker 2: see if he's just some kind of smart guy number
Speaker 2: pusher or like, you know, if he can perform I guess,
Speaker 2: and you know, if he can lethal. Dude, if he's lethal, yeah, d.
Speaker 3: Dra Didre's boss meets up with her in the subway. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he says, we gotta go now. You don't got time
Speaker 3: to get shipped together. Was that before the guns are after.
Speaker 2: Okay daring the guns?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the guns.
Speaker 2: When they got rid of Sean, they were already planning
Speaker 2: phase at that point.
Speaker 4: No. Here's the thing though, we yes, we see that
Speaker 4: scene afterwards, but that was happening during Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Because she comes home immediately after and relays that same
Speaker 2: information later in the.
Speaker 4: I don't know that was happening.
Speaker 2: They know they had moved into that apartment because she
Speaker 2: came back to that apartment correct and was like, we
Speaker 2: have to do it now.
Speaker 4: No, this this happened while they were at the warehouse. Still.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't do the heightst from the warehouse.
Speaker 2: They plan it from the apartment.
Speaker 4: No, they know because the apartment is That's like, that's
Speaker 4: a next That's.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, that's where the heist starts.
Speaker 3: They they I think they had planned to stay in
Speaker 3: the warehouse for a while and train and figure out
Speaker 3: everything they were going through.
Speaker 2: I forgot And then when she that happened.
Speaker 3: Last she's like, we can't. We have to go straight
Speaker 3: into the apartment.
Speaker 4: That Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is this is
Speaker 4: happening while they're acquiring the guns, this meet up between
Speaker 4: Deirdre and Yeah. But anyways, So Natasha mcalhanney, she plays Deirdre.
Speaker 4: You've seen her in the Truman Show, this remake of
Speaker 4: Solaris and I remember her from the show California Indication.
Speaker 4: Both her and Jonathan Price had a dialect coach to
Speaker 4: help them with their accents because neither are from Northern Island.
Speaker 4: We have Sellin Scarsguard, who plays Gregor. He's a returning
Speaker 4: champion for us. Frankenheimer praised the level of the work
Speaker 4: that scars Gard did that he brought to the role,
Speaker 4: which included him developing a whole background as to why
Speaker 4: his character acts in the way that he does. Obviously
Speaker 4: that doesn't show up in the film or like any
Speaker 4: sort of dialogue. But a lot of these actors, yeah, well,
Speaker 4: a lot of these actors that like a Sellin scars
Speaker 4: Guard will do work on their character like who am
Speaker 4: I like let and they'll write up like a whole
Speaker 4: essay on who their character is. I'm sure Robert de
Speaker 4: Niro did the same thing. But stars Guard, Yeah, scars
Speaker 4: Guard definitely did this. And Frankenheimer's just really impressed that
Speaker 4: even even though he's not on screen all that much,
Speaker 4: he still like is doing this crazy amount of work
Speaker 4: for the character.
Speaker 2: And Guarden Dragon Tattoo, right, was the other film, that's correct.
Speaker 4: Yeah. We have Sean Bean who plays Spence. He's been
Speaker 4: in films like GoldenEye, The Lord of the Rings, and
Speaker 4: he's in Game of Thrones one of the few films
Speaker 4: that he does not die in, despite it being debated
Speaker 4: by the director wondering if he should die or be
Speaker 4: left to be on his way.
Speaker 2: There is ambiguity whether like they might have cleaned up
Speaker 2: after who knows what, We don't know.
Speaker 4: So so there Frankenheimer taught because he's the I listened
Speaker 4: to his audio. Yeah, because I was listening to the
Speaker 4: audio commentary of the film that Frankenheimer.
Speaker 2: Does because Seamus, I could see Shamus killing him just
Speaker 2: to get him out of there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But what happened is, like the debate was that
Speaker 4: Frankenheimer had kind of had it with themselves like should
Speaker 4: I kill the off this character or should I just
Speaker 4: let him kind of just go on his way? And
Speaker 4: uh there they kind of filmed it both ways, like
Speaker 4: where you just hear a gunshot and you know, as
Speaker 4: they're going out out and he's like, no, I think
Speaker 4: we're just gonna let him live and be kind of
Speaker 4: live in this like in Shame essentially, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He tried to play with the big boys, but you
Speaker 2: were faking it.
Speaker 4: So being described his character as being egotistical and out
Speaker 4: of his depth quote unquote. However, I contend his character
Speaker 4: is a fake. He claims that he's a firearm specialist
Speaker 4: that served in the Special Air Service, but the questions
Speaker 4: he asked of Sam and the group seemed to me
Speaker 4: to be suspect, have you guys killed anyone? What kind
Speaker 4: of weapons do you use? Putting the guys in a
Speaker 4: dangerous situation and not reading the danger, talking too damn much.
Speaker 4: What do you think about I read it.
Speaker 2: As a guy who didn't like was in the military
Speaker 2: and either a like sucked right and never saw any action,
Speaker 2: and he's pretending like he has, or he maybe flunked
Speaker 2: out and never even fucking finished, but he learned a
Speaker 2: little bit, Like he knows his way around some guns,
Speaker 2: and he knows a little bit, but he's always he's
Speaker 2: pretending the rest because he hasn't seen.
Speaker 4: Any in reality. But I agree with you to a degree,
Speaker 4: But like, overall, he's a fake. He's a fake.
Speaker 2: I think I think he I think it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: whether he knows the color of the boat house or not.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a well Sandon know the color
Speaker 4: of the boat.
Speaker 2: I know he's bluffing, but uh, you know, that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that he didn't go to the school either. I
Speaker 2: don't think that confirms it necessarily.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think he ever did. I think
Speaker 4: I think he failed out in boot camp. I guarantee
Speaker 4: that he bailed out the next camp.
Speaker 2: And he's just been like trying to, you know, pick
Speaker 2: up jobs. How does a guy like that even find
Speaker 2: out about a job like this? Then you know it's
Speaker 2: the only one that doesn't really have any qualifications like
Speaker 2: the rest.
Speaker 3: Well that's something he had to at least do something.
Speaker 2: I guess he just wanted like one more hired gun.
Speaker 4: So like an next chacher. So here, here's the thing
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about, because we have two different factions here,
Speaker 4: well actually different factions if you will, because Deirdre and
Speaker 4: Seamus are on their own faction. But because we have
Speaker 4: the people that met in the pub. There's Vincent, there's Sam,
Speaker 4: there's Larry, and then there's the people that were already
Speaker 4: at the warehouse and that's Spence and Gregor. And the
Speaker 4: people that Sam doesn't trust are the people in the
Speaker 4: warehouse and he tests them and those are also people
Speaker 4: who the people that were already in the warehouse are
Speaker 4: the people who fucked the mission or are at least
Speaker 4: attempted to in some degree. And that's where later on,
Speaker 4: when Deirdre and Seamus are having this discussion, it's like
Speaker 4: I hired them because there was from your fucking contact.
Speaker 4: Why did your contact give me these people?
Speaker 2: And they never find out who the contact is. The
Speaker 2: man in the wheelchair right.
Speaker 4: The man well, which is supposedly this this film takes
Speaker 4: place in the Jason Bourne universe because the man in
Speaker 4: the wheelchair is is a kind of a type of
Speaker 4: person like that in the uh in the Bourn universe.
Speaker 2: Is a man in the wheelchair in the Born universe?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Remember?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well we don't. Yeah, it's like we I don't
Speaker 4: Born esque. Well, we don't necessarily see that in the films,
Speaker 4: but we do see it in in the books that
Speaker 4: they're based off of. There is a man in the wheelchair.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 4: But and then uh. We also have Skip Sudith who
Speaker 4: plays Larry Uh. Mostly a journeyman actor, but many people
Speaker 4: might know him from the TV series Third Watch. Yes
Speaker 4: and yeah, Unlike the other actors, he actually did a
Speaker 4: majority of his own driving stunts.
Speaker 2: I thought, so it looks like it. Yeah, impressive, dude.
Speaker 2: I fell in love with that car after seeing this
Speaker 2: movie eight Yeah that was in Sedan and just the
Speaker 2: sound of it, like because I love how he's just
Speaker 2: like I need this, this and that and a fucking
Speaker 2: nitrous tank.
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, well he said nitrous.
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, that's so like Nights was new.
Speaker 3: Like they had to show it, like in every movie
Speaker 3: they're like this is this is this new fingle technology
Speaker 3: that makes cars go fast. It didn't feel real, uh,
Speaker 3: And we've slowly grown we've gotten away from that in movies,
Speaker 3: but like there was like a six seven year period
Speaker 3: where every car had nice not niciss, and you would see.
Speaker 2: Them in this whatever. It's always been in movies, it
Speaker 2: just hasn't had a name, Like it's been James By
Speaker 2: movies all the time, but you just don't like they
Speaker 2: never name it. But it's like the switch and then
Speaker 2: fucking the car zooms, you know.
Speaker 4: It's also been around in racing, even though it's.
Speaker 2: A little exactly know, but it's like it depends on
Speaker 2: the race. It depends on racing. Like if you're doing
Speaker 2: drag racing, it's not necessarily illegal double yeah.
Speaker 4: But as far as like any sort of like indy
Speaker 4: car or stock car racing. It's been around, but.
Speaker 2: It makes sense for someone like this to install it,
Speaker 2: like it's not like a fast and the furious sort
Speaker 2: of like use of it. And then in this it's
Speaker 2: like he's building a getaway car, so he wants a
Speaker 2: little bit if they need to boost the fuck out
Speaker 2: of there or catch up to the convoy, he needs
Speaker 2: that little bit of extra horsepower. He's probably pushing like
Speaker 2: eight hundred horsepower and that fucking thing.
Speaker 4: I feel like, dude, if in it feels like these Yeah,
Speaker 4: these guys also were the stunt drivers were driving fast,
Speaker 4: like really fast, And we'll we'll we'll talk about that
Speaker 4: towards the.
Speaker 2: Hugi reaults.
Speaker 4: So they're there. They had a Citron, they had a Pougeot,
Speaker 4: they had m W they had a Diesel Mercedes. Uh,
Speaker 4: but it's uh, we'll talk about that at the end
Speaker 4: how they did some of those stunts when we get
Speaker 4: to those those scenes. But man, they were fucking flying.
Speaker 2: And even the camera work when the camera we get
Speaker 2: in the POV shots of the cars.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and certain the shots also make it even
Speaker 4: look more frantic, but they really were driving at a
Speaker 4: pretty aggressive speed.
Speaker 2: You can tell from the interior shots like too.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I wanted to talk about the the gun acquisition
Speaker 4: scene as they're going to meet uh, their suppliers of
Speaker 4: these guns, because I think this is obviously a very
Speaker 4: important scene in the movie.
Speaker 2: Doesn't know that they're going to get double cross here, right,
Speaker 2: This is just bad a bad connection because this is
Speaker 2: through Vincent anyway.
Speaker 4: Yes, through Vincent, through some French contents.
Speaker 3: Like you know these people or did your boss give you?
Speaker 3: Just give you a phone number? Yeah, So, like he
Speaker 3: suspect to begin with, he doesn't even want to go
Speaker 3: he wants to go with them.
Speaker 2: He wants to follow the boss lady. Yeah, she wants information.
Speaker 3: They all would have died.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because she's been so you know, stand offish with information,
Speaker 4: Like every time he asks a question, she's just kind
Speaker 4: of deflecting, and he's like, something's not right here. I
Speaker 4: don't like this. And so he's wanting to figure out
Speaker 4: if going with her to figure out more things, and
Speaker 4: she's like, no, go with go with these guys, and
Speaker 4: Gregor stays behind. I think this is also a very
Speaker 4: important point because this is the only time when he
Speaker 4: did Yes, I believe this is when he did the
Speaker 4: case because no one else was there, So this is
Speaker 4: the perfect time for him to get the the fake
Speaker 4: case made up.
Speaker 2: True if they hadn't picked the case yet though, that's
Speaker 2: the only thing. So I don't know if that was
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 4: But they knew that they were getting a case, and
Speaker 4: they saw the picture of the case.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he already knew that.
Speaker 4: So he already had that information. So he was the
Speaker 4: ice skating already all and now I'm I have a
Speaker 4: feeling that Gregor and you exactly what's in the case,
Speaker 4: and he knew what he could get for it, and
Speaker 4: he was already working on this double cross, like, oh,
Speaker 4: he's totally looked in the case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he he knows, he knows he's setting up the sell. You,
Speaker 3: I mean, you have to know what something is if
Speaker 3: you're going to sell it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's why they should have kept more eyes
Speaker 2: on him in the first place, if he's the guy
Speaker 2: who's like setting up the sale of the item. Well,
Speaker 2: actually I thought Deirdrew was doing all that right, she'd no,
Speaker 2: because they needed.
Speaker 4: They needed him.
Speaker 3: With the purpose of to the Russians, to the Russians,
Speaker 3: so he has to know what it is. He wouldn't
Speaker 3: risk he wouldn't risk all this if he didn't know
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the IRA is trying to steal the case because
Speaker 4: they don't have enough money to actually buy the case.
Speaker 4: The Russians have the money to buy the case. And
Speaker 4: what they don't realize is that Gregor is actually technically
Speaker 4: still working well, he's working for himself, but he is
Speaker 4: he knows what's in the case. He's technically working for
Speaker 4: the Russians, and he's gonna steal the case for himself
Speaker 4: and sell it back to them so that he can
Speaker 4: make money.
Speaker 2: Now I have a question, It's just do you think
Speaker 2: this whole time that d Niro's character is an x
Speaker 2: CI a mercenary now or is he still somehow connected
Speaker 2: to the CI.
Speaker 4: So that that that is a theory that a lot
Speaker 4: of people think.
Speaker 2: That he's trying to get the case.
Speaker 4: That's right, that he's actually trying to get the case
Speaker 4: for the Americans because he's still working with that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he's he's pretending to be x that he's like that
Speaker 4: he's a burned spy that is uh, and he's but
Speaker 4: in reality, he's actually still working for the CIA. And
Speaker 4: I think I think the ending does portray that because
Speaker 4: going off. Yeah, because he ends up going off with
Speaker 4: that guy again, meaning that maybe he's still connected with
Speaker 4: the CIA.
Speaker 2: That's what I was wondering. But then he tells Renault's
Speaker 2: character as if they're going to see each other again,
Speaker 2: He's like, I'll get the bill next time.
Speaker 4: Well, I think he's I think now that he knows
Speaker 4: Vincent is a guy that he can rely on and
Speaker 4: might be able to Hey, if I have another job,
Speaker 4: this is the guy I want to use on another job.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Upon my second launch, I I thought, I don't think
Speaker 3: that uh in our A ever or right nine r A.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Irish people I used to think
Speaker 3: the IRA, I don't think they ever actually planned on
Speaker 3: paying these guys because when Robert Niro flips out and
Speaker 3: he's like, no, I'm gonna need a fucking giant raise
Speaker 3: it at.
Speaker 2: Dude, I love that fucking moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to pay.
Speaker 3: All of them one hundred thousand dollars, but they can't
Speaker 3: afford the case.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're also like, I don't think the
Speaker 2: theater is like she's not necessarily innocent, but she's not
Speaker 2: in control of everything that Shamus is doing. So like
Speaker 2: when Seamous pulls a double cross later she just has
Speaker 2: to go along with it.
Speaker 3: And her in the dark.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think she ever planned on the killing Larry,
Speaker 2: Like that wasn't part of her plan. If it was
Speaker 2: up to her, she probably would have paid these people
Speaker 2: off and sent them on their way, just like Sean
Speaker 2: Bean's character.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but we like said, they're still in the case
Speaker 4: because they don't have the money. And it's from what
Speaker 4: I understand, it seems like Seamus is kind of Yes,
Speaker 4: he's part of the IRA, but he's almost like a
Speaker 4: fractured stegment of the IRA, Like he's a splinter cell
Speaker 4: from the IRA that they don't even want this guy around.
Speaker 4: That's why he has to hide, because he's under so
Speaker 4: much suspicion from all these different people. That's why Deirdre
Speaker 4: is his front man.
Speaker 2: He's a little weasy fuck in this movie too.
Speaker 4: Oh dude, I do I love. I fucking love Jonathan
Speaker 4: Brice acting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you don't like h.
Speaker 4: Like I said, I just I love this scene where
Speaker 4: they acquire the guns. There's this whole fucking thing that
Speaker 4: goes on. But like I said, we talked about how
Speaker 4: all the characters kind of play their role, and what
Speaker 4: Sam anticipated was gonna happen is that there is gonna
Speaker 4: something is just very weird about this. They didn't bring
Speaker 4: all the stuff.
Speaker 2: That we asked them to bring, and they.
Speaker 4: Lured into it like a kill box essentially, and he's like,
Speaker 4: I ain't going I ain't going in there. We have
Speaker 4: all all that ship breakdown, they shoot up the everybody.
Speaker 4: They end up keeping the money, getting the guns, some
Speaker 4: guns at least, And dude, that's the the the running
Speaker 4: away from the cops, to get away from the cops.
Speaker 4: Oh man, that was crazy.
Speaker 3: Jamm back there, boys, Yeah much.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to follow. Cut the murment
Speaker 2: out out right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit of raspberry can there? Yeah yeah,
Speaker 4: jump chop.
Speaker 3: The moment the adrenaline wears out, he has to.
Speaker 4: Keep sucking, like hitting the car right, because he's never
Speaker 4: he's never shot a gun and he's never killed anybody.
Speaker 4: That's why he throws up.
Speaker 2: We're been even had bullets shot at him, probably live rounds.
Speaker 2: He's a little bitch boy. You could have just left
Speaker 2: him there on the street. That's where they should have
Speaker 2: shot him in the fucking head when he was throwing up, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the gun buyer's got him. Sorry.
Speaker 2: I love how they look at each other, like like.
Speaker 4: This this guy and well, it's like and you have
Speaker 4: when he's outside hurling on the sidewalk, you have Vincent
Speaker 4: look at Sam and it's like it's like I need
Speaker 4: the money. It's like the money's money's right here and
Speaker 4: taking it. It's like, but who's the one that provided
Speaker 4: the money? Because like I.
Speaker 2: Feel like maybe he's not really needing the money. I
Speaker 2: used to think that he was just a mercenary, but
Speaker 2: now I'm starting to think that he Yeah.
Speaker 4: I really now, Yeah, now that I'm really looking a
Speaker 4: bit about a super critical eye is that he is
Speaker 4: an undercover rogue agent essentially that is infiltrating this this
Speaker 4: group to figure out what's going on, what who are
Speaker 4: our buyers? And he's asking all these questions yes to.
Speaker 2: He's so like he's not supposed to be using CIA information. Money,
Speaker 2: doesn't need to like the number triangulation, that was a
Speaker 2: last ditch effort. He didn't really want to do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he also knows that he he knows how
Speaker 4: to do that, how to live off the grid, he
Speaker 4: knows how he knows how to do all that to
Speaker 4: keep his cover up and in a lassage effort to
Speaker 4: like really make sure that this case doesn't get into
Speaker 4: the wrong hands. He utilizes like I have to go
Speaker 4: to my guys and figure this out. And that's where
Speaker 4: it's like when when he's asked, like, who's that Guy's like,
Speaker 4: he's my high school buddy.
Speaker 2: But skipping ahead, let's spreak down the heist and the
Speaker 2: apartment like planning moments, because that's what we're here for anyway, right,
Speaker 2: the highest thing, Like I just it's one of the
Speaker 2: moments that sticks out the most to me in this movie.
Speaker 3: Before though, when do you think the moment Sam decided
Speaker 3: he was gonna get rid of Sean being? Like when
Speaker 3: do you think was it when he was at the
Speaker 3: whiteboard fucking up? Or was it like.
Speaker 4: In the car acquisition?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think, but the whiteboard was like I can't stand
Speaker 2: this to him. If Sean being sat there at the
Speaker 2: table and shut up and just listened, I don't think
Speaker 2: he would have buffet him as quickly.
Speaker 3: When he told him to draw it again six times
Speaker 3: in a row, like I drive again, every one of those,
Speaker 3: Draw it again, draw it again.
Speaker 2: Draw a simple diagram, Just draw it again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like I.
Speaker 2: Like the way they play it too, because you don't
Speaker 2: know what he's doing. He's sipping his coffee, but then
Speaker 2: he puts the coffee down and just like we look
Speaker 2: at it real fast for a moment, and we go
Speaker 2: back to the drawing board that he's on, and just like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: obviously I guess, like I didn't even go to fucking school,
Speaker 2: because like, that's stupid putting two people shooters a cross.
Speaker 2: You put a shoot ahea in a shoot of the
Speaker 2: right right raspberry jam.
Speaker 4: It's a fucking idiot. And he's like, yeah, you know
Speaker 4: what happens when you put a shooter here and a
Speaker 4: shooter here. They shoot at each other and they're all dead.
Speaker 4: What's what color is the bow house at Hereford? What
Speaker 4: color is the bow house at Herefords? That dude, that
Speaker 4: scene is fucking amazing. I love it.
Speaker 3: That's probably that scene is Bruen. I got pulled into
Speaker 3: the movie when I was like, oh, okay, this movie,
Speaker 3: this movie is now taking a turn. This is a
Speaker 3: different type of movie. It's not it's not a movie anymore.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I also think this is the way where Dieter
Speaker 4: realizes that, like, shit, like some of these contexts, maybe
Speaker 4: they're not.
Speaker 2: The best, but it also shows that like okay, maybe
Speaker 2: this guy's a serting himself, but also this is the
Speaker 2: guy to get it done as well, like the reason
Speaker 2: that he's taking because he wants to do the department.
Speaker 3: He becomes the boss, like just riding shotgun at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really know how much I love the whole. Like, hey, honey,
Speaker 2: puts some pearls on and let's go for a walk
Speaker 2: kind of deal.
Speaker 3: Every time he said when he's given her like your
Speaker 3: wife clean up really good, I kept thinking a boar rat,
Speaker 3: he's like my wif. I was laughing.
Speaker 4: See, here's the thing is, I don't think that that
Speaker 4: was necessarily a derogatory thing. It was just more to like,
Speaker 4: it's a play a part, and only I only say
Speaker 4: that because Natasha mcelhaney she talking about her character, she
Speaker 4: really feels like she was actually really excited to do
Speaker 4: this role. One because she's a woman who is essential
Speaker 4: the leader of this group. She's the one that brought
Speaker 4: it all together. But and the fact that she's a
Speaker 4: woman is not even really like talked about her considered.
Speaker 4: It's not thrown on the dial, like it's like, what
Speaker 4: the hell is a woman doing telling us whatever question
Speaker 4: that's not even Yeah, it's not even a question. Which
Speaker 4: is and she is and she is a powerhouse figure
Speaker 4: in this movie. She's not. It's not played for like,
Speaker 4: oh well, she's a woman, she can't handle anything. So
Speaker 4: I kind of like, I don't mean that.
Speaker 2: I just think the whole the relationship between her and him,
Speaker 2: like you said, it was added on. It feels a
Speaker 2: little added on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I also feel.
Speaker 2: Like it futual respect, fine, mutual respect. I don't know
Speaker 2: if I need like love, like get out of here.
Speaker 4: Well, they touch on it a little bit, but I
Speaker 4: don't and I think there is. There isn't a.
Speaker 3: I just don't take that as romance. I took that
Speaker 3: as he realized that her boss is a horrible person
Speaker 3: and she got stuck in the middle, and he's like,
Speaker 3: get out of here.
Speaker 2: True, why did he do because he's a sucker for
Speaker 2: any of them?
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Pushed he totally you could have pretended to be doing anything.
Speaker 2: But he was like, we're gonna, hey, we gotta be
Speaker 2: lipsmack and let's go.
Speaker 3: That. Public displays of affection make people uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: So the other thing too is I don't know what
Speaker 4: it is, but both Robert de Niro and al Pacino
Speaker 4: having sex scenes is just weird to me. Those actors like,
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, like them being in a sex scene, just.
Speaker 2: Can't wait till we covered heat and they both have
Speaker 2: sex with each other. Oh sorry, I spoiled it.
Speaker 3: Uh now I have to see.
Speaker 2: It's one of the most craziest sex scenes ever. Uh.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the heistman, I just like high stuff, like planning.
Speaker 2: U like moments. I like them in the you know,
Speaker 2: in the hotel, smoker cigarettes, wagons. I like seeing like uh,
Speaker 2: you know, Vincent getting stuff and and I like seeing
Speaker 2: little stuff like Larry went out and got groceries, you know,
Speaker 2: just a little ship that adds detail. Like they've been
Speaker 2: here for a little while. They have a little bit
Speaker 2: of a routine while they're planning.
Speaker 4: And he's also the kind of the he's the one
Speaker 4: that they and everybody too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's a food kind of guy.
Speaker 4: It definitely it's definitely funky in there because Larry's fucking
Speaker 4: smoking twenty.
Speaker 2: Four and that little bit of like they're getting pent
Speaker 2: up too, because like Gregor is like I just want
Speaker 2: to do something. He's like, we are doing something waiting
Speaker 2: and then I like how Sam sort of like you
Speaker 2: know what, let's do it now, let's go check it out,
Speaker 2: like kind of drags the map.
Speaker 4: The map's not the the map's not the territory. Let's
Speaker 4: let's see the.
Speaker 3: Map is not the land. I wrote it down.
Speaker 4: It was like it was, yeah, the map's not the land.
Speaker 3: Stuck out. Uh. So like he go down there and
Speaker 3: walk around. He takes a he pretends like he's a tourist,
Speaker 3: so he has an excuse to take I was slick,
Speaker 3: and he grabs that poor French guy and he's like,
Speaker 3: take a picture of my wife, take a picture.
Speaker 4: Of mind what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like he sets up that little bit of
Speaker 2: sign though, to see what they'll do under you know, pressure,
Speaker 2: if they think the shots fired, which was smart to
Speaker 2: see like what they're dealing with, because otherwise they would
Speaker 2: have known none of that information.
Speaker 3: Now you stand with my wife and I think.
Speaker 2: They or something eight to ten people to three cars.
Speaker 2: That's all the information they had until he went down
Speaker 2: there and checked it all out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like I said, it's it just shows how
Speaker 4: much of an intelligent guy, this guy, uh that Sam is.
Speaker 3: And then and then the reason they're in the car
Speaker 3: later is because they're waiting, and he's like, well, we
Speaker 3: should we should still be getting information. That's why he
Speaker 3: drove down there. He's like he was up to wait
Speaker 3: till tomorrow. We have more to get more intel.
Speaker 4: Let's put these guys to bed, and like they're just
Speaker 4: watching and listening to what's going on in that villa
Speaker 4: that these guys are staying in. And obviously they when
Speaker 4: cars go by and all that stuff that they're like, oh,
Speaker 4: we have to pretend like we're looking at the map
Speaker 4: or oh the cops. Let's uh, you know, let's have sex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she he likes a good kiss her, and yeah,
Speaker 2: he had a little chemistry.
Speaker 4: Kiss and then she got turned on and she ended
Speaker 4: up boning him.
Speaker 2: And I wasn't like I'm gonna try and get I
Speaker 2: don't think she was kind of trying to like gaslight
Speaker 2: him so that later she could double cross him and
Speaker 2: he would have feelings. I think she genuinely was just
Speaker 2: like caught up in the moment like this that's sucking.
Speaker 4: It's it's it's one of those things that it was
Speaker 4: in the moment she liked it.
Speaker 2: She liked him, and.
Speaker 3: Until this moment she was like tired of his ship.
Speaker 3: She's like, I'm trying to be the I'm trying to
Speaker 3: run this group here, and you keep stepping I think
Speaker 3: a little.
Speaker 2: Bit she might have been turned on by it away too,
Speaker 2: because he's the only one in the group who was
Speaker 2: like assertive at all about it anything they had.
Speaker 3: There's a really good line while they're in the car.
Speaker 3: He asked her how she got into it, and she
Speaker 3: was like, I was seduced by a not good gentleman.
Speaker 3: He's like me too, and like I laughed pretty hard
Speaker 3: at that.
Speaker 2: I did. There's bits of in a very serious movie,
Speaker 2: there are some bits of humor, for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that's like because because Sam's a witty,
Speaker 3: witty guy, you know, he likes to say stuff off
Speaker 3: the cuff, very you know, James gunnstyle, Harry.
Speaker 4: I think those I think those are the David mammontt
Speaker 4: touches to the screenplay, like as far as like expanding
Speaker 4: upon the character of Sam, which is one of his jobs.
Speaker 4: And I have a feeling that those little bits of dialogue,
Speaker 4: the little quips that he has, I think that gives
Speaker 4: it a little bit more character and makes the character
Speaker 4: a lot more fun.
Speaker 2: It feels real, yeah yeah, yeah, Like he says these
Speaker 2: things because he knows these things. He's not lying.
Speaker 3: What makes you feel like a real person and not
Speaker 3: just reading dialogue. This is the heiste dude together.
Speaker 2: You don't know. You've heard the planning, you've seen the board,
Speaker 2: you heard about the fire cracker thing. You didn't know
Speaker 2: what that was, the simulator or whatever. And then when
Speaker 2: you get to see it all start to come together
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Like in between two plants, like it's just out in
Speaker 3: the open. He's like, no one, I'll funk with it. Well,
Speaker 3: like you just lay shit around like that.
Speaker 4: This was one of This is such a great scene
Speaker 4: because now now because like Sam said, the map is
Speaker 4: not the land, and so now we as an audience
Speaker 4: are seeing the land like the reality of the situation.
Speaker 4: What's gonna be taking back like ran on the side
Speaker 4: of the road right, and now we see like where
Speaker 4: people are getting set up. We have Larry who's uh
Speaker 4: parking his car in a certain strategic position. We have
Speaker 4: Gregor in the band with all the computers and like
Speaker 4: we were figuring out like oh he's he's gonna be Yeah,
Speaker 4: the guy in the chair that's monitoring everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Uh. And we have Sam and Vincent together in the
Speaker 4: Mercedes and they are I think all that. Dude, they're
Speaker 4: setting up to figure out like okay, we were monitoring things.
Speaker 4: We're setting up the little clicker to change the stop
Speaker 4: light so we can create a diversion there.
Speaker 2: Like how Gregor's too. He's got aware. He's aware of
Speaker 2: everything so he can give relay information to them. Wants
Speaker 2: to chase the light.
Speaker 3: Those those nineties computers, man, they were they were making
Speaker 3: me so happy.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's how.
Speaker 3: Yes, remember when a computer took up half a van.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but that's how Larry Because Larry's is a
Speaker 2: very capable driver, but now he can drive without even
Speaker 2: really focusing on the road as much, like just his
Speaker 2: you know, like you're going to make a left here
Speaker 2: and boom, he's like doing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, his instincts are to h.
Speaker 3: He would just put his He just put the GPS
Speaker 3: like in the cigarette the ashtray.
Speaker 4: The other thing I yeah. The other thing I really
Speaker 4: like too is there's a great line up. When everything's
Speaker 4: getting ready to go down and Vincent comes back into
Speaker 4: the car where Sam is at and he asked us, like,
Speaker 4: what's your wish for Christmas? It's like, I want my
Speaker 4: two front teeth, May it be granted? And then he
Speaker 4: grabs that like rocket launcher or the grenade launcher that he.
Speaker 2: Has, and yeah, and that ship it all hell fucking
Speaker 2: breaks loose. They're not fucking around either, like they're not
Speaker 2: trying to take the case without killing anybody. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: we're going to blow up the first car and really
Speaker 2: make a statement here. And then the whole plan is
Speaker 2: to actually get the car to go to run.
Speaker 4: Yeah that is Yeah, they're trying. They're trying to isolate
Speaker 4: the car with the case, taking out all the other
Speaker 4: security guards. That was the whole point of this. And
Speaker 4: fuck yeah, dude, this this is a great chasing that
Speaker 4: happens here.
Speaker 2: One moment then that took me out. Though there's a
Speaker 2: moment where like the cars pull up, Vincent's shooting by
Speaker 2: the fruit stand. He runs for cover. He runs as like, uh,
Speaker 2: Sam's covering him with the assault rifle. Because aftery blows
Speaker 2: up the front car, he pulls out a fucking ar
Speaker 2: and just starts laying a waste all the henchmen as
Speaker 2: they get out, the main case guy goes flying you know,
Speaker 2: out in the in his car, and then the other
Speaker 2: guys pull up and starts shooting at Vincent, and there's
Speaker 2: a moment where Vincent runs and it's like everybody behind
Speaker 2: him at the fruit stand gets like shot except for him,
Speaker 2: Like he's like, ok yeah, I just it was one moment.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, okay, it's a little dumb. I
Speaker 4: I agree, but I really.
Speaker 3: Liked it when he pulled out that Tormato two Grene launcher.
Speaker 3: I got qualified for that gun while it was in
Speaker 3: the Navy, and it's super fun to shoot.
Speaker 4: Oh monkey bastard.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think makes a while. You know, honestly,
Speaker 2: this would be like a great video game.
Speaker 4: Fuck yeah, dude, I pay.
Speaker 2: To get Away. No more like a third person like
Speaker 2: shooter with driving segments and.
Speaker 3: GTA Yeah a little bit, yeah, but more. Just notice
Speaker 3: how red the blood was.
Speaker 2: It was like Italian.
Speaker 3: Italian horror movie blood in the Colisseum.
Speaker 2: I noticed that scene. That's what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's I feel. Yeah, I really do believe
Speaker 4: that because Frankenheimer, he's kind of one of the classic
Speaker 4: Hollywood directors because he did a lot of stuff in
Speaker 4: the sixties and seventies, and he's paying tribute to those, uh,
Speaker 4: not like the noir films of the forties, but like
Speaker 4: what the neo noir films that were coming out in
Speaker 4: the sixties and seventies. And I'm sure, like I said,
Speaker 4: I I have to imagine that Le Samurai was one
Speaker 4: of his uh one of the films he was paying
Speaker 4: tribute to, but like a lot of those Italian and
Speaker 4: French neo noir films, and well he did he didn't
Speaker 4: do the original French connection. He did the second the sequel.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying I haven't. Yeah, this is uh, you know,
Speaker 2: this movie is like an amalgamation of the things that
Speaker 2: he's inspired by. He wanted to make a couple of
Speaker 2: different films and one that's why it's a spy, thriller, heist,
Speaker 2: fucking right, D and D movie. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4: And I think and I think he I think he
Speaker 4: is merging a couple of different worlds where this is
Speaker 4: a he's merging the nineties action film into like these
Speaker 4: old films. Yeah, and that's where I think some people
Speaker 4: might not like the pacing of this film, because there
Speaker 4: are a lot of slower moments. But and but the
Speaker 4: action we get is like snap of your finger.
Speaker 2: Very well choreographed. Yeah, and very stylist.
Speaker 3: This car chase gets out of the city pretty fast. Yeah,
Speaker 3: now we're not liked about that. We're full dukes of hazard.
Speaker 2: Now we're off roads roads.
Speaker 3: And in like big dust trails.
Speaker 2: And I love how they start taking out these cars though,
Speaker 2: like the Bazuka moment. You can tell it's not rabber
Speaker 2: than Hero, but it's still cool, like how they're just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're going to take out that one trailing car real
Speaker 2: quick with the Bazuka. And then then we queue in
Speaker 2: the driver Larry, like they're coming up there on you
Speaker 2: almost in a moment. And that's where Gregory's really coming
Speaker 2: in clutch. I think, relaying all these information to both
Speaker 2: drivers so that they can get like this one car
Speaker 2: like well after.
Speaker 3: I mean, so this chasing runs a little long, but
Speaker 3: it's capped with it starts with a gunfight and then
Speaker 3: it ends with a gunfight.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That that ending gunfight I think is damn You're perfect.
Speaker 2: It is. I like the way it's situated too, Like
Speaker 2: it feels really I understood.
Speaker 3: Everything that was going on into the area, right, Like, Yeah,
Speaker 3: usually they get choppy that they don't want you like
Speaker 3: like this person might be over here, might be over there,
Speaker 3: and they don't want you to know exactly so they
Speaker 3: they don't mess up. But everything was crystal.
Speaker 2: I thought it was really good the way he comes
Speaker 2: through with the big gun and then like the other
Speaker 2: car comes down the alley and he starts firing on them,
Speaker 2: and you could see like the camera pans and we
Speaker 2: could I like how Larry starts shooting when he first
Speaker 2: pulls it up, because he like knocks them out of
Speaker 2: the UH into the UH, into the fucking the wall
Speaker 2: and he just starts shooting at the other guys, the drivers,
Speaker 2: And I like when we panted, like you said, there's
Speaker 2: a moment where you get to see Deirdre and she's
Speaker 2: in she's kind of pinned between the two cars, but
Speaker 2: she's using it as cover because for that moment, it's
Speaker 2: like she can't really get out of there, but it's
Speaker 2: it's keeping her alive at least, and she's firing from
Speaker 2: cover there. And I thought that was a good bit
Speaker 2: of like like you said, they used the environment really
Speaker 2: well and paint it well where you it feels believable,
Speaker 2: and I could picture it like, oh, there, and Gregor's
Speaker 2: over here, and that's how Gregor is able to do
Speaker 2: the switch because nobody can fucking see what's going on
Speaker 2: with him. They're too wrapped up, which he had planned on,
Speaker 2: I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the only thing that gets them to understand like, oh,
Speaker 4: that there's a switch is the the paint hasn't dried
Speaker 4: on the case yet.
Speaker 2: Which is kind of sloppy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel a little sloppy, but it's it's
Speaker 4: for us the audience to know that the case has
Speaker 4: been switched. And was like, oh fuck, throw that ship
Speaker 4: away and toss it under the car and big fucking explosion,
Speaker 4: And I like, it's the law of cool. I think
Speaker 4: it works for the film. It makes it awesome, But yeah,
Speaker 4: it is sloppy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you ever think about like the people like just
Speaker 3: sitting there having lunch at that cafe. It's just a
Speaker 3: normal day and then like four cars wreck in front
Speaker 3: of you and start shooting at each.
Speaker 2: Other, blowing up and ship.
Speaker 3: That will be the one day you think about every
Speaker 3: day for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: I don't think you're going out to eat over again,
Speaker 2: Like I'm saying I'm getting uber.
Speaker 4: Yeah, those were all sun people. They knew that the
Speaker 4: car was coming, and they were If you watch a
Speaker 4: little bit of the behind the scenes, you'll see them
Speaker 4: like jumping just before the car gets there. But yeah,
Speaker 4: it's stilly. But based on the movie, yeah, it is like,
Speaker 4: fuck that ruined their fucking day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can just imagine. But uh yeah, so this
Speaker 2: is the first big, big double cross I think that
Speaker 2: comes in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is where we learn it's so they
Speaker 3: cut away and now we learn it's a sneaky Christmas
Speaker 3: m movie. Yep, because as they go back to the apartment. Uh,
Speaker 3: there are people out caroling. There's a church group Caroline.
Speaker 2: I think, mm, yeah, that's when we find out that
Speaker 2: much his name was hit or injured.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think in the I think in the explosion there
Speaker 4: was like Strapannel that hit went into Larry's leg and
Speaker 4: so there so you have Sam acquiring materials to help
Speaker 4: heal his leg.
Speaker 2: I like that moment. See Larry doesn't talk a lot,
Speaker 2: but there's a moment where like Sam gives him a
Speaker 2: cigarette because he wanted a camel and he didn't and
Speaker 2: it's not Sam Vincent did. Sam didn't get him cigarettes.
Speaker 2: But there's like this like just like you speaking too much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but there's this moment on Larry's face where he's just
Speaker 2: happy and he's sort of like I'm with my buds,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. My buddy over here is yeah,
Speaker 2: leg up, and my buddy over here gave me a
Speaker 2: cigarette and like things could be worse, you know, And
Speaker 2: I just kind of wish we heard more about Larry,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, maybe he talked about his favorite
Speaker 2: food or why he's into food or just something just
Speaker 2: a little bread crabba who he was, you know, American
Speaker 2: And you.
Speaker 3: Realize, you realize that you didn't die, and like there's
Speaker 3: a euphoria like I came very close to dying and
Speaker 3: I didn't, like so like this isn't guaranteed, and now
Speaker 3: I have a cigarette and my friend here.
Speaker 4: Well and he also knows that because Sam saved his
Speaker 4: life essentially kill him. Yeah well even yeah, even like
Speaker 4: dere is like why the fun did you kill Mary?
Speaker 2: Why to take to take your car? You can Larry drive.
Speaker 3: Fam forgave her because yeah, uh he doesn't know that
Speaker 3: she wasn't in on it. I mean he might have
Speaker 3: because he knows her as a person by now, but
Speaker 3: still I.
Speaker 4: Mean because at the end, like he's waiting in that
Speaker 4: cafe hoping that she's going to show up. He does
Speaker 4: because he because he's like he was, because he he
Speaker 4: actually has attracted her, he likes her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do kind of like the way that
Speaker 2: they ended on that cafe again.
Speaker 4: Nice, it's a nice book end to the film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like you get the staircase again. But
Speaker 2: I I like the exchange too between him and Renault's
Speaker 2: character in that moment, because that's where you know that
Speaker 2: like they're friends, like this, this is a friendship that's
Speaker 2: went beyond this heist, Like especially the moment where he
Speaker 2: brings them to Jean Pierre's house, like that was because
Speaker 2: we we didn't touch on it because we didn't get
Speaker 2: to it yet. But there's a moment where de Niro
Speaker 2: saves what's his name's life, Vincent's life in a way
Speaker 2: like he but he not the way you think. He
Speaker 2: thinks he's gonna shoot at the guy, but he ends
Speaker 2: up just distracting the guy. He catches the ricochet at
Speaker 2: the coliseum at the meat but he ends up saving
Speaker 2: Renault's life. You know it gives Renaul a second to
Speaker 2: shoot the guy, and then later on I feel like
Speaker 2: he's able to, you know, return the favor. At the
Speaker 2: end of the movie.
Speaker 3: After they after they helped Larry out, we cut back
Speaker 3: to Gregor and yeah, he he picks up a Russia
Speaker 3: guy and they go to a playground together, which is weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna do the meat for yeah, the exchange.
Speaker 4: So so the first uh, Jan Triska is the guy
Speaker 4: who plays that that first Russian that Gregor tries to
Speaker 4: sell the case to, and he's a chechen actor. I've
Speaker 4: done a bunch of things over in the Czech Republic.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that was a very weird scene. Uh, just
Speaker 4: the fact that showing how crazy Gregor is. And yeah,
Speaker 4: he's like, I don't like you, but look look what
Speaker 4: I'm willing to do to someone I don't even know,
Speaker 4: a kid. What do you think I'm going to do
Speaker 4: to you if you fuck me over?
Speaker 2: It establishes that, but I don't need to honestly, because
Speaker 2: it's it's it's one he ends up having a buy
Speaker 2: like a sale with these people twice, right, and and
Speaker 2: the one where they catch him at the coliseum that
Speaker 2: works for me. Him being double crossed by them, and
Speaker 2: then and then guys showing up to finally find Gregor.
Speaker 2: That's enough. I think there's moments of bloat in this film,
Speaker 2: and I think that's one of the moments where it
Speaker 2: could drag. Yeah, showcases Gregor's fucked up, but we already
Speaker 2: know he's fucked up. I got enough breadcrumbs to know
Speaker 2: he's fucked up. I don't need to see him shoot
Speaker 2: at the kid and then get that, Like, if you
Speaker 2: got double cross by the people, why are you going
Speaker 2: to go back to them again for another sale? It
Speaker 2: just felt like redundant. Yeah, well, I don't have too
Speaker 2: many people the Irish.
Speaker 3: People, Like, well, he knows the Irish people won't give
Speaker 3: him the type of money that he wants, but he
Speaker 3: can raise the price three on the Russians and he
Speaker 3: knows they're still good for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just don't need that extra moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah true. But and like I said, yeah, because he
Speaker 4: is former kJ B, so he knows what these guys
Speaker 4: have in their coffers.
Speaker 2: M Like, it just doesn't do anything for me. I
Speaker 2: can have the moment on the phone with the nameless
Speaker 2: Russian guy, uh with the ice skating girlfriend with the
Speaker 2: great but who he sacrifices by.
Speaker 3: The way, when he's yes he does when he shoots
Speaker 3: him in the head and the blood hits that window.
Speaker 3: That that's really good practical effects.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I like how he got to jump on
Speaker 2: him too, because he thought he had to jump on him,
Speaker 2: but he didn't, and then he was able to still
Speaker 2: get to jump on him.
Speaker 3: But jerking the car, he just let his foot off
Speaker 3: the bricks.
Speaker 2: First of all, you would have put the car in park,
Speaker 2: I think not if you're crazy killer. Well, you want
Speaker 2: to get a good shot on the kid, right, so
Speaker 2: you got to punk the car. What's with that crazy
Speaker 2: sniper rifle fucking pistol that he's got. He's got like
Speaker 2: the Golden eye. Fucking yeah, it looks like something.
Speaker 4: Well, I will I will tell you. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of there's a lot of double oh seven connections in
Speaker 4: this film, by the way. Yeah, well we haven't well
Speaker 4: we didn't talk about essentially, we've we've already met Seamus O'Rourke,
Speaker 4: who's played by Jonathan Price. He's in films like Brazil,
Speaker 4: who he was in with Robert de Niro. Uh, he
Speaker 4: was the bad guy in Tomorrow and never dies, and
Speaker 4: he's in the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy and uh,
Speaker 4: later on we're gonna meet Michael Lonzi plays Jean Pierre.
Speaker 4: Uh mainly, well, yeah, he's he's a journeyman actor in
Speaker 4: French films, but most people here in America will know
Speaker 4: him as Hugo Drax from Moon Breaker.
Speaker 5: M He.
Speaker 3: Looked very much like Gary Guyax.
Speaker 2: And then that makes sense. And then there's D and
Speaker 2: D ties to the you know, meeting in the pub. Maybe,
Speaker 2: so maybe Frankenheimer is a fucking.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 3: One of my main hobbies is painting minies like that.
Speaker 3: So like I was super nerdy out in this scene.
Speaker 4: It's funny. So you are right, Frankenheimer had a love
Speaker 4: for building miniatures, and he created a character that was
Speaker 4: a miniature artist, and that was and obviously he was cracking.
Speaker 4: The story of the forty seven ronin which I do
Speaker 4: is obviously. Yeah, it incorporates the the inspiration of the
Speaker 4: screenplay that J. D.
Speaker 2: Syke had and films that we have covered as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And Frank Nimberg wasn't a fan of creating
Speaker 4: these miniature creations, and so it's just kind of a
Speaker 4: mixture of the two, uh, the two worlds.
Speaker 2: I like this guy. He's a retired guy. He lives
Speaker 2: by himself with ex pain, his min hes, probably smokes
Speaker 2: like a nice pipe of fucking some l s bud,
Speaker 2: and like lives with his dog, like I dig it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and his area looks like he could take like hiking
Speaker 2: trails and stuff around that area.
Speaker 4: Oh, Jean Pierre is fucking bad. I want to learn
Speaker 4: more about it.
Speaker 2: I want to like go back to Jean Pierre's house.
Speaker 2: It's all over you know, and parties.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: I thought they were setting it up to where like
Speaker 3: they would come and hunt them down like the Russians. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we were going to get a sword fight. I just
Speaker 3: I was just like, get out of here back.
Speaker 4: So, when I was younger, I always thought that he
Speaker 4: was the guy in the wheelchair or the guy in
Speaker 4: the chair that they were talking about at the beginning.
Speaker 4: And now the obviously now that I'm older and I
Speaker 4: can understand more, I'm like, oh no, no, that's not
Speaker 4: the case at all. This is just a contact that
Speaker 4: Vincent has that you know, maybe they serve together or whatever.
Speaker 3: So after Gregor Steel goes bad, we end up at
Speaker 3: the post office, which is, like I think, a real
Speaker 3: important scene for Sam's character, even though it might not
Speaker 3: be that important for the movie, it lets us it
Speaker 3: makes you think about Sam different the rest of the movie.
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all thought I think I think you
Speaker 2: think that Sam's CIA, and all the characters in the
Speaker 2: movie kind of have tried to you know, thought it
Speaker 2: a little bit too, but he never confirms it, you know,
Speaker 2: and I think this sort of shows you that as
Speaker 2: well as it shows them like he has other means
Speaker 2: to do things that he do not necessarily like wants
Speaker 2: to go to. But he's like, a right, fine, I
Speaker 2: can I have contacts that can do this, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe it shows too much information to them about who
Speaker 2: he is or what his background is. As well as
Speaker 2: us the audience is wondering is he still in the
Speaker 2: CIA or is the Ronan thing about him? Because he's
Speaker 2: not in the CIA anymore so the sea, you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't have a master to serve necessarily.
Speaker 4: So the idea, the way that I took it as
Speaker 4: is that all of our characters are Ronan because they're
Speaker 4: all X. Yeah whatever their their xpis from their expats,
Speaker 4: from their their countries. So if the idea is that
Speaker 4: they don't longer have a master that they serve, so
Speaker 4: they're Ronan.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 3: I like it, but they get this his CIA contact
Speaker 3: at the post office lets them know where Gregor went,
Speaker 3: and like now, like I feel like the movie paused
Speaker 3: here for us to take a breath. But I don't
Speaker 3: know if I necessarily needed to take a breath. I
Speaker 3: think I think I would have been fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw. I'm wondering if this movie maybe didn't
Speaker 2: connect as well to when it released because it's called
Speaker 2: Ronan and it's a spy, you know, a thriller set
Speaker 2: in France, heist film, and then it's you know, starring
Speaker 2: an American. So I don't think people knew what to
Speaker 2: make of this film, even though the people that did
Speaker 2: see I think enjoyed it for the most part.
Speaker 4: You know. Yeah, I think that that is the I.
Speaker 2: Remembering issue when it came out.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you were right, it was mixed. And once again,
Speaker 4: the issue goes back to the mixture of genres that
Speaker 4: are going on in this film and the mixture of
Speaker 4: philosophies as well, because this is not your like I said,
Speaker 4: this is not your still.
Speaker 2: Film it's like, it's not like it's a French film.
Speaker 4: Basically, it does it does be. Like I said, it's
Speaker 4: more Les Samurai more so than Mission Impossible or Adjason
Speaker 4: Bourne film. So it's it's not quite the same thing.
Speaker 4: And in like the sixties and seventies, when John Frankenheimer
Speaker 4: was really at the height of his career, this type
Speaker 4: of film would have worked fantastically. What you also have
Speaker 4: had the same type of kinetic action that you get
Speaker 4: in in this film that you could now do in
Speaker 4: the nineties, and a lot of the the the current
Speaker 4: audience of the nineties looks at the action is like
Speaker 4: being great. I think most people will remember the the
Speaker 4: car chase scenes and the explosions, and that's awesome. But
Speaker 4: I think the problem people have is with like the
Speaker 4: slower pace scenes and trying to build characters and understanding
Speaker 4: what's going on, and.
Speaker 2: You know, on a first watch, some people might be confused.
Speaker 4: Or exactly And this is also one of another one
Speaker 4: of those films similar to like Atomic Blonde or you know,
Speaker 4: some of the films we've covered recently where it does
Speaker 4: require multiple viewings to catch those little details that are
Speaker 4: being thrown out there that are being they're being they're
Speaker 4: being shown to us, they're not being told to us,
Speaker 4: so you might not necessarily get it right away.
Speaker 2: Which is good storytelling, but it's so in a film.
Speaker 2: I'm like this, sometimes it doesn't all. You don't soak
Speaker 2: it all. In first watch.
Speaker 3: I did enjoy it more of my second watch. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: even though they were just like a day apart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you understood the heist more, and that the
Speaker 2: where things fit I think a little bit better. So
Speaker 2: like when you see it the second time, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that makes sense now, because I do remember, like Seamus
Speaker 2: and Gregor and the whole double cross, and then the
Speaker 2: Russians coming in in the end, it gets a little
Speaker 2: muddled a little bit towards the end, I'll be honest,
Speaker 2: The ending sort of, I don't know. It goes in
Speaker 2: a trajectory where I honestly like the beginning and I
Speaker 2: like the heist planning, and I like the heist. But
Speaker 2: then we get the heist done and we have a
Speaker 2: good amount of film after that, and then it's all
Speaker 2: like we now you need to find the case and
Speaker 2: it becomes more of a double cross.
Speaker 3: So we leave there at this point we're leaving Paris
Speaker 3: and we go to this little tourist town and uh
Speaker 3: like Seamus shows up and kills Larry like the Kyle
Speaker 3: sam Like there's tourist groups going around. The Russians are there,
Speaker 3: Like there's I feel like there's like three groups of
Speaker 3: people moving around. There is to keep the track of
Speaker 3: all of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there there's our there's our group. There's the Russians
Speaker 4: with Gregory Gregor trying to sell the case. And then
Speaker 4: we also have Seamus and his and we yeah, wandering
Speaker 4: around and he's trying to take the case for himself,
Speaker 4: maybe trying to do it himself so he doesn't have
Speaker 4: to pay this group that he hired.
Speaker 2: He's a piece of ship. I just thought, man, this
Speaker 2: movie really does We got le Samurai, we have forty
Speaker 2: seven row, and we got Ricochet here that we covered
Speaker 2: and in this movie. Yeah kind that's yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of ties ends to older older.
Speaker 4: I will say this, this movie is better than Ricochet.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the ricochet itself is better than Ricochet. When do
Speaker 2: you ever see a ricochet? And I love this moment
Speaker 2: too later on when he's like this fucker sprayed his
Speaker 2: bullets with teflon and went through his vest. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: don't realize the moment right away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing is like I don't even know if
Speaker 4: like that's a real thing, but it it certainly worse
Speaker 4: for the film. They made it worse.
Speaker 3: When Gregor's running away and he always got cancer, he
Speaker 3: looks he looks like a damn toddler, Like he he
Speaker 3: jumps like a little boy and almost fall while Sam's
Speaker 3: chasing him.
Speaker 2: But maybe it's supposed to show that Gregor is not
Speaker 2: necessarily like the most capable guy in that aspect. You know, Well, I.
Speaker 3: Feel like I feel like Gregor's used to I think
Speaker 3: Gregor's used to being ahead of everyone that he doesn't
Speaker 3: like that Sam Sam got ahead of him, and now
Speaker 3: he's now that when he's caught off guard, he's not operating.
Speaker 2: He says that on the phone too, right when he
Speaker 2: calls back the next meet, he said, I'll call you
Speaker 2: in a better moment when like I have the advantage.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this this also goes to his expertise. We
Speaker 4: know he's a computer guy. He has a lot of expertise. Yes,
Speaker 4: he's normally ahead of people. He is, he does, he
Speaker 4: is very capable with weapons too, But like I said,
Speaker 4: it's always with the advantage. And this is where Sam
Speaker 4: is much. I think he's much more capable than Gregor,
Speaker 4: and he's able to get ahead of him, and that
Speaker 4: really throws Gregor off, and that's why he looks kind
Speaker 4: of listless in this moment.
Speaker 2: Now, do you almost feel like we could have just
Speaker 2: like combined the Gregor and Seamous character?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost two evils of the same evil. It's like
Speaker 2: Gregor's cross.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's almost like there's too many like things happening
Speaker 4: at once. I would I would I think a Gregor
Speaker 4: Seamous mixed mixing of those characters would have been a
Speaker 4: better idea. I mean that, so where what I think
Speaker 4: would have worked better is maybe so we mix Seamus
Speaker 4: and Gregor together. So like that's the that's the person
Speaker 4: that is UH is using Deirdre as a front man,
Speaker 4: and Deirdre ends up really becoming a part of the
Speaker 4: team that is created and she and everyone's double crossed.
Speaker 2: You have been like if Gregor was the mastermind the
Speaker 2: whole time, and he was working from within the group,
Speaker 2: as if he was just a mercenary guy, but he
Speaker 2: was actually the guy who was feeding the information that
Speaker 2: Deirdre Deer just didn't know it, or maybe she does,
Speaker 2: but nobody else knows that.
Speaker 4: All the usual suspects all yeah, usual suspects.
Speaker 2: Oh that would have been the guy was in the
Speaker 2: room the whole time. And then then the double cross
Speaker 2: comes and you could stubs, but Gregor double crosses you.
Speaker 4: But it ends up being you know, like Sam constantly
Speaker 4: asking those questions is like causing a lot of friction.
Speaker 4: Oh dude, that would have been I think that would
Speaker 4: have made this film like probably much more prominent than
Speaker 4: it really is.
Speaker 2: I just think we like, we get these double crosses,
Speaker 2: it's like several of them at once, and it's just
Speaker 2: seems redundant too, because it's just like same shame. It's
Speaker 2: just a shitty character and he's willing to do whatever,
Speaker 2: and Gregor's almost the same fucking guys.
Speaker 3: It's just a lot to put in one movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, this was.
Speaker 3: Like a sixth episode HBO show. We only got one
Speaker 3: double crossing episode. Yeah, that would that would be great.
Speaker 2: You could make a cool show out of that. Like
Speaker 2: the heist itself would be a cool fucking It's like
Speaker 2: four parter, The Heist and the actual like planning and
Speaker 2: then the actual heights. You could show more stuff like
Speaker 2: with them getting the guns and then getting materials and
Speaker 2: ship like like I will say that the car, that
Speaker 2: car was put together very fast. How much time is
Speaker 2: like he was like, I need new valves and injectors
Speaker 2: and this that that doesn't just happen overnight. Even if
Speaker 2: Vincent knows Dominic Toreto, I.
Speaker 3: Think they do a good job all about family. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is like there's a loose timeline, but they're not
Speaker 3: exactly how many days this is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, give me a couple of day night cycles. Then
Speaker 2: if you're not gonna give me a number on the screen,
Speaker 2: then just show me a couple.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the timeline is very loose on this movie.
Speaker 2: Most of it doesn't bother me. But the fact that
Speaker 2: that like that car was up and running like the
Speaker 2: next day, I felt like and I was like, you
Speaker 2: put a nitrous system in there. And I guess Mention
Speaker 2: is just very capable.
Speaker 4: He knows well that it's okay. So Vince is able
Speaker 4: to Vincent is able to get acquire all the stuff.
Speaker 4: I'm sure he knows people. He probably has a team
Speaker 4: of people to put it in.
Speaker 2: And that and it turns out Dominic tourto was actually
Speaker 2: spending time in Paris at this moment in the time.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, probably.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did it. He was the one that's put
Speaker 2: it in there.
Speaker 4: The Fast and the Furious guys were right there helping them.
Speaker 2: Out back when they actually raced cars stuff.
Speaker 4: And not going into space.
Speaker 2: I haven't even seen those newer ones.
Speaker 4: I think I stopped at Tokyo Drift, like that's where
Speaker 4: I stopped too, But I do know about the fucking
Speaker 4: them going in some good.
Speaker 2: There's some good drifting in Tokyo Drift.
Speaker 4: Tokyo Drifts actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: I thought that movie was dominant first, and it is,
Speaker 2: but it's like fun, dumb, like I've I've.
Speaker 3: Like it's like a sequel to Sling Place because the
Speaker 3: kids in it.
Speaker 2: Have you all seen.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah many many times.
Speaker 4: There my biscuits. Yeah, I seen them French, but.
Speaker 3: We could easily put that on the commentary listen with commentary.
Speaker 3: A lot of civilians get shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all those people at the farm stands like earlier.
Speaker 3: What a what a shitty day to take a tour?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like people that die, the five tourists that die
Speaker 4: in this uh this thing, but.
Speaker 3: Uh Yeah, Sam, Sam gets shot and yeah, they take
Speaker 3: him over to Gary Gax's.
Speaker 2: He does.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I like I said, I I love the
Speaker 4: Jean Pierre character, and he uh uh. Obviously like Sam
Speaker 4: is like, I'm leaking here. I got I gotta do something.
Speaker 2: That's why he's like, all right, I'll bring it in
Speaker 2: my buddy's house, who normally I wouldn't bring anybody to. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that feels like this is a this is risk and
Speaker 2: John Pierre, but I like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he reassures the post office right in front of Hilm,
Speaker 3: so like, I feel like that's true. The walls a
Speaker 3: little bit, that's true.
Speaker 2: I didn't think about that heat. They are dropping the
Speaker 2: walls and that's there. They're Yeah, it's like a scale,
Speaker 2: and they're meeting each other both ways constantly in this
Speaker 2: whole heights where they're they're gravitating towards each other.
Speaker 4: I'm never showing they're they're showing a little bit of
Speaker 4: their cards to each other in a.
Speaker 2: Sense, because they're growing some trust.
Speaker 3: I've never seen the Professional. Is he playing a similar
Speaker 3: character that he did in that movie?
Speaker 4: You've never seen on the Professional?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should cover oh.
Speaker 4: Man, we definitely need to cover that. He's a hit
Speaker 4: man in that, but he's a he's a protector in
Speaker 4: that essentially.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's like the cool, collective French guy that
Speaker 3: doesn't talk a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's not of his character in most of
Speaker 2: his films.
Speaker 4: This is it's a that I'm sure that The mandal
Speaker 4: The Mandalorian is based off of. I would assume that
Speaker 4: it's a little bit like Leon the Professional. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: if you've seen The Mandalorian, it has a little bit
Speaker 4: of those elements, and Leon the Professional.
Speaker 2: A bad guy who's been given a job to protect somebody.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And Gary Oldman's in it. He's amazing.
Speaker 3: The Washington movie like that too, right where he's uh yeah,
Speaker 3: man on Fire.
Speaker 2: That's a great movie. You never seen that map? What
Speaker 2: we come a manifire?
Speaker 4: Hell? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Nice anyway.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so they're they're while they're while they're at uh,
Speaker 3: Sam does surgery on himself and this seems pretty bad ass.
Speaker 3: And I watched a lot of horror movies.
Speaker 4: Then I get queezed, Yes, I want guys appendix with
Speaker 4: the Grape group spoon.
Speaker 2: So I was wondering if that was like a reference
Speaker 2: to another film.
Speaker 4: No, I don't. I don't think so. I don't think so.
Speaker 4: But god his.
Speaker 2: Cousin, Yeah, yeah, you love that moment too. He's like,
Speaker 2: all right, now that that's done, I'm just gonna pass.
Speaker 2: That can catch me up.
Speaker 3: He's like, they're like you want to you want some booze?
Speaker 3: He's like, no booze?
Speaker 2: Yeah, why not till he was done? Man, I think yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: which you're smart, but it just shows it like Sam's
Speaker 2: been around the block, bro.
Speaker 3: And uh, as soon as they're done with that, they
Speaker 3: cut the Dedra cussing her boss out.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: I think the audience needed that, so we know.
Speaker 4: We know that, just so we know that, like she's
Speaker 4: not Yes, she has been working for Seamus, but she's
Speaker 4: not necessarily on Seamus's side.
Speaker 3: They have different character alignments.
Speaker 4: Why do you have to kill Larry? And it's like yeah,
Speaker 4: and he's he's blaming her for the failure of getting
Speaker 4: the case, like, yeah, the only reason I hired these
Speaker 4: guys because through your fucking contact.
Speaker 3: But he also never answers her like why did he
Speaker 3: kill Larry? They don't have to?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And also like so did Seamus hire Gregor? Because
Speaker 4: Seamus is technically behind the hiring of Gregor and h Spence,
Speaker 4: who was a fuck up. So is it just because
Speaker 4: they were cheap and like, but did he know that
Speaker 4: Gregor was gonna fuck them over?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: There's something there's there's a part of Seamus that like,
Speaker 4: I'm just really it doesn't make sense, Like there there's
Speaker 4: something that he knows that we're not privy to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think if he didn't, if he plans on
Speaker 3: not paying them, he would have got better people, because.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, it just happens that Sam is very
Speaker 4: capable and and Vincent and Larry are capable, but the
Speaker 4: other two guys that are hired are.
Speaker 2: Not to get the fucking case.
Speaker 4: Well, I will say this, Gregor is capable, he's just
Speaker 4: a he's a backstabber.
Speaker 2: Ye, we just don't know where. At some point Shame
Speaker 2: was going to double cross them too. It had to
Speaker 2: be that. Yeah, absolutely, I doubt that was going to
Speaker 2: be able to just pay everybody and then everybody's going
Speaker 2: to be in their way as as much as she
Speaker 2: thought she was going to be able to. Like when
Speaker 2: she tells them that I think she believes that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, did is being double cross too.
Speaker 2: I think she's only been given certain pieces of the
Speaker 2: of the puzzle. When she's when it's you know, when
Speaker 2: they deem her lucky enough to have that information. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but yeah, he patches himself up. We get that cool
Speaker 2: like moment of the plot behind the forty seven Ronin
Speaker 2: and there's just a little kind of tangent, not necessarily,
Speaker 2: but it's still a cool scene.
Speaker 4: I will say this is my first.
Speaker 2: It's like a poetic nature to the scene. But he
Speaker 2: does drag a little bit, like it slows down the film.
Speaker 4: In a way. So this is this is my This
Speaker 4: is my intro to the understanding of what the forty
Speaker 4: seven Ronin was because I never knew this story until
Speaker 4: me to watch this movie. And obviously this turned me
Speaker 4: down to a road I didn't even know check a
Speaker 4: lot of yeah, I didn't know either. This is this
Speaker 4: is my introduction to this Japanese philosophy and obviously is
Speaker 4: the start of my love for Japanese film and for me, Uh,
Speaker 4: the gunfight at the OK Corral, that's that is our
Speaker 4: version of the forty seven ronin. That's the So once
Speaker 4: I understood that, I was like, oh, that this is
Speaker 4: like their their version of that. This is there the
Speaker 4: story that is told in Japanese lored over and over
Speaker 4: and over again, and so yeah, it's just kind of
Speaker 4: cool being introduced to it through this film.
Speaker 2: Now, Matt, do you think it's heavy handed though? Because
Speaker 2: the movie's already.
Speaker 3: Called so I'm already familiar with it. But I'm wondering
Speaker 3: if I if I came into this movie not knowing
Speaker 3: what a fucking Ronan was and not hurting the.
Speaker 2: From nineteen ninety eight, I didn't know it was, you know,
Speaker 2: who knows what?
Speaker 3: Who knows the pop culture references people have coming in
Speaker 3: because there was you know, the Internet wasn't big yet,
Speaker 3: so like you just knew what you you know, like
Speaker 3: what you just tried.
Speaker 2: And you're a history buff and you also you like
Speaker 2: sword stuff, so I feel like you.
Speaker 4: So yeah, coming to this in twenty twenty five, people
Speaker 4: would be like this is very ham fisted, But in
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, I would guarantee that most Americans watching
Speaker 4: this had no idea what the fuck a Ronan was
Speaker 4: or the story of the forty seven Ronan at all. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And and so when JD. Syke, who was the screenwriter,
Speaker 4: these were the stories that he read the Shogun novel,
Speaker 4: the James Glovell novel, and he had read about the
Speaker 4: forty seven Ronan and wanted to create a modern version
Speaker 4: of that. And I to a degree, I think he's successful.
Speaker 4: But maybe because the idea that like these stories aren't
Speaker 4: really well known in Western culture. This is why we
Speaker 4: have a scene like this here.
Speaker 3: There's a really good line here where he says, uh,
Speaker 3: whenever there is doubt, there isn't any doubt, and that
Speaker 3: that kind of stuck with me, Like the fact that
Speaker 3: you doubt is yeah, if you if you're if you're
Speaker 3: not unsure, fucking don't do it like yeah, And I
Speaker 3: mean that's just good advice for any one.
Speaker 2: I got you, Like, you can't have doubt about having doubt,
Speaker 2: it's you already have the doubt. So then that's your feeling.
Speaker 3: Basically saying, trust your gut if something's telling you that
Speaker 3: it's wrong, there's something wrong, like don't.
Speaker 2: Don't, which we see several times in Sam Sam's character
Speaker 2: where he feels something's off, you know, yes, and doesn't want.
Speaker 4: To go along. Well, I mean the whole movie, Sam
Speaker 4: knows something's off. That why he's always questioning things. He's
Speaker 4: always very careful of certain characters. That's why he's testing people.
Speaker 4: He's always doubting things and questioning things, and that's what
Speaker 4: keeps him alive and keeps the people that he cares
Speaker 4: about alive.
Speaker 2: And so now once he recoups, they find they find
Speaker 2: Deirdre and Gregor's location because of the case. Correct, they
Speaker 2: realized that the case was a skatecase. They back to
Speaker 2: the Russians.
Speaker 4: Right because the idea was because him and Vincent are
Speaker 4: are the last remaining two and they're figuring out like,
Speaker 4: so how do we how do we find out where
Speaker 4: Gregor is? And when they realized, well, he's selling it
Speaker 4: to the Russians, like we don't have to find how
Speaker 4: they had to find the Russians.
Speaker 2: Again because they have the chase scene. I forgot what
Speaker 2: that was from. Was that still from the cell phone?
Speaker 2: Were they still using the cell phone triangulation at that
Speaker 2: point because there's a chase scene in.
Speaker 4: Between before, Yes, yes, that's what it was initially, So
Speaker 4: initially it was them with the found no hold on
Speaker 4: a second.
Speaker 2: Then later there's a chase scene with Gregor in the
Speaker 2: car and where they chase Gregor what's his name? And
Speaker 2: Dedre right, am I wrong?
Speaker 3: Right at Gregor down and I think Dedre kidnaps Gregor
Speaker 3: in front of them, like they come out of the
Speaker 3: house together. I don't know how they got.
Speaker 2: And then that's yeah, that's when they and then that
Speaker 2: that's when the car flips off the bridge and then
Speaker 2: they shoot at it and it blows up and then
Speaker 2: but everybody gets out. Anyway, that would have been a
Speaker 2: good moment for me for like DJ to die.
Speaker 3: Would be yeah, like dmage uh D is driving like
Speaker 3: pretty nonchalantly, but the whole time Sam's driving like Robert
Speaker 3: de Niro looks like he's trying to hold the ship in.
Speaker 2: And I don't know they do. They all looked like
Speaker 2: they were driving for real. Like DD's face look worried,
Speaker 2: and Ert.
Speaker 4: He's like, well, you know, he's like yeah, he's got
Speaker 4: his hands very tight, like he's so I'll talk. So
Speaker 4: now we're at the chasing, I'll talk.
Speaker 2: I will just say real quick. It does make sense
Speaker 2: because realistic, like you don't make big fucking movements with
Speaker 2: the wheel like do you see in a lot of movies,
Speaker 2: right they're like, so him just having his hands tight
Speaker 2: is more like a race car driver. And in that moment.
Speaker 2: That's kind of how you're gonna be white knuckled.
Speaker 4: So here here's how this scene, how these scenes played out.
Speaker 4: What was which is really great one Deirdre is worried
Speaker 4: because she is being essentially being held at gunpoint and
Speaker 4: she's running for her life because Seamus is gonna kill
Speaker 4: her if she doesn't run. You have de Niro, who
Speaker 4: is Sam, who is obviously he's going after. But our
Speaker 4: stunt drivers are two main sunt drivers. They're professional race
Speaker 4: car drivers. We had there was like ne f one driver.
Speaker 4: There was a i think like a sports car driver.
Speaker 4: That was all that was also in this. And so
Speaker 4: are our actors, uh, And they were sitting over in
Speaker 4: essentially the they were in the opposite side of the car,
Speaker 4: and our actors are mimicking their movements and how they're
Speaker 4: driving because our actors, like so they had dual steering wheels,
Speaker 4: dual pedals, and the actors didn't have control of the car.
Speaker 4: The professional stunt race car drivers did, and so they
Speaker 4: were just mimicking their movements. And as far as like
Speaker 4: the minimal like steering wheel movements and yeah or like yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it is tough. And you also had so they're
Speaker 4: gunning it. They're going one hundred miles an hour, and
Speaker 4: they also had a mixture of all the other people
Speaker 4: that are on the road. They're also sun drivers, but
Speaker 4: they're driving at a slower speed, which makes the pace
Speaker 4: look even more frantic. So they're driving i think at
Speaker 4: like forty miles an hour and in a in a
Speaker 4: set style.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's like the other cars are going even faster.
Speaker 4: Right, and so it creates this like frantic look and
Speaker 4: it looks great. And this is this is one of
Speaker 4: the great chase scenes in cinema history, up there with
Speaker 4: the French Connection or Bullet if you will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great neck for sure. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: a lot going on. If you watch all the back
Speaker 2: and forth when they're going down the highway like the
Speaker 2: wrong way, it's there's a lot of tough driving there.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of yeah it down the streets in
Speaker 3: this in this chase scene.
Speaker 2: Remind me of the Matrix too a little bit.
Speaker 3: Hit me on the edge of my seat, like literally
Speaker 3: I was like.
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, And it's this is
Speaker 4: probably what we'll remember from the film is this particular scene,
Speaker 4: which is you know, a good like ten minute chase,
Speaker 4: and it's it is exciting, it's fun, it's it's crazy
Speaker 4: the way it.
Speaker 2: Ends when they hit the the car off the edge,
Speaker 2: and I like how they're like shooting down below. They
Speaker 2: can't quite get down there, so they can't get to
Speaker 2: the people in the car, you know. So yeah, they're
Speaker 2: like ship, we can't get to them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, shooting at like so the crash causes a lot
Speaker 4: of fluid, the leak, and you have Vincent and Sam
Speaker 4: shooting at the car, which ignites that fluid.
Speaker 2: But then they can't anymore because like there's other bystanders
Speaker 2: getting the way, like the construction guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they're they're trying the construction guys are trying
Speaker 4: to pull them out.
Speaker 2: Is just a horrible Save that hot blonde, quick, save
Speaker 2: the dirty. Yeah, very blonde. She's very attractive in this.
Speaker 2: I actually like her better when she's not dressed up.
Speaker 2: I like her better when she's in the pub and ship.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, same here, dude.
Speaker 2: She's a planning stage.
Speaker 4: Like I said, she's not a like a bombshell. But
Speaker 4: there's there's a sexiness too. There's a sexiness to her
Speaker 4: that I really love.
Speaker 2: And like we said before. She's assertive in a moment,
Speaker 2: and you don't view her as like the female, like
Speaker 2: she's just one of the crews.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and that I think that that's what that's
Speaker 4: what attracted her to this role she wanted. She she's
Speaker 4: just one of the guys essentially, but.
Speaker 2: She still does have that sex appeal when you know,
Speaker 2: you know complex. It makes her character because she is
Speaker 2: a she is a female. She can use those feminine
Speaker 2: ways as she has to, especially in this kind of world,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And this is where because obviously our guys escape,
Speaker 4: and this is where Benson and Sam are realizing that
Speaker 4: we don't have to find Gregor. We just have to
Speaker 4: find the Russians and we'll figure out like what we
Speaker 4: have to do. And this is what sets up our
Speaker 4: our final the case, if you will. Okay, now, now
Speaker 4: now that we're talking about it, now, I figured this
Speaker 4: is this is what's going.
Speaker 2: On the showdown at the ice skating rink.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so there's a giant skating billboard behind them
Speaker 3: while they're at the car shop talking to the Russians.
Speaker 3: The clue it is this giant billboard behind well, the.
Speaker 4: Guy does give them a clue. It's like, well, if
Speaker 4: you're looking for Russians, you might find them at this
Speaker 4: ice skating show. And it just happens that there's an
Speaker 4: advertisement for that ice skating show right across the way.
Speaker 3: It's like the dungeon Master like was giving small clues,
Speaker 3: and the small clues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's like, the players aren't getting it. I
Speaker 2: gotta drop a real nugget, like an MPC is in
Speaker 2: point the way exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: But we have so are our Russians here that we
Speaker 4: haven't talked about yet. We have Fodor Atkin who plays Mickey.
Speaker 4: He's actually a journeyman French actor and people might know him.
Speaker 4: He's the French language voice dub for Marvel Disney characters
Speaker 4: played by William Hurt, Ben Kingsley, Hugo Weaving and others.
Speaker 4: So like a lot of our Marvel characters, he's the
Speaker 4: French dubb artist for them. And the skater Natasha Kirilova
Speaker 4: is played by Katerina Witt, who is a two time
Speaker 4: Olympic champion for East Germany, both in the eighty four
Speaker 4: Sarajevo and the eighty eight Calgary Winter Olympics for figure.
Speaker 2: Skating MM she's got buns of steel.
Speaker 4: She does have buns of steal. She's hot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she got shot though, so a little young too,
Speaker 2: looks like for dating a soulder guy.
Speaker 4: Well yeah yeah, he's exactly how.
Speaker 2: Young but she definitely looks twenties compared to him. But
Speaker 2: he was like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well yeah, because he doesn't care about her. She's
Speaker 4: just an ends to.
Speaker 3: Like I took it different. I took it that he
Speaker 3: does care about her, But no, he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Is that important he shoots.
Speaker 4: Him, no problem, He cares about the He walks out
Speaker 4: there and the case, and the case is more important
Speaker 4: than the than his figure skater girlfriend or what.
Speaker 2: He doesn't even weigh the situation that he just shoots.
Speaker 2: He makes a decision right away. The case. What is
Speaker 2: in the case that's so important? You think launch coades
Speaker 2: like the same thing from Atomic Bond, Like.
Speaker 3: This suitcase from Iron Man two.
Speaker 2: That's something to look at.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean it's the same thing with like
Speaker 4: with the pulp fiction or kiss Me Deadly, Like, we
Speaker 4: don't know what the fuck is in the case. It's
Speaker 4: just this Nero does. Well, de Niro knows, but we don't.
Speaker 4: We Gregor did not know what's in that case? Well,
Speaker 4: obviously Gregor knows what's in the case, because why would
Speaker 4: he be working so hard to steal it so he
Speaker 4: can sell it. Yeah, it's just we as the audience
Speaker 4: have no idea what the hell is in that case.
Speaker 3: I like, when they're trying to get back into the
Speaker 3: ice skate ring, we hear the we went to high
Speaker 3: school together line again.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Vincent.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Vincent uses the same line that Danira used on him later, tangulation.
Speaker 3: They have to beat that guy up, and Vince's like,
Speaker 3: I can't. I can't. I couldn't live with myself. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you have to, I can't do. Yeah, such a good thrid.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's so great.
Speaker 2: I felt bad when Vincent gets shot too, because I
Speaker 2: was like, oh fuck, Like he gets shot pretty bad,
Speaker 2: like twice.
Speaker 4: Sham it. Yeah yeah, Shaman's shoots him twice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're like fuck. And then we see Sam
Speaker 2: get shot. But I love this moment where he can't
Speaker 2: because Sam was gonna. Sam was done for in that moment.
Speaker 2: I thought Sam was bluffing at first, like he's got
Speaker 2: to take one on the shoulder just to glure him in,
Speaker 2: but he was really you know, hurt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's his shooting hand too, so it's he's
Speaker 4: fucked in that moment before, Well, Vincent just comes in
Speaker 4: and saves.
Speaker 3: The day before that, they double crossed Gregor again. Gregor
Speaker 3: thinks he he has a snipe for on his on
Speaker 3: the the salesman's girlfriend out there ice skating, and he's
Speaker 3: confident that he will pay him and let him leave
Speaker 3: or because he's not gonna his girlfriend gets shot, and
Speaker 3: we find out that that's not true. So even though
Speaker 3: the case is very important, apparently it's not important enough
Speaker 3: just to pay for. But the graphics that they use,
Speaker 3: the the practical effects they use for this headshot, I
Speaker 3: thought looked good.
Speaker 2: He's like the bullet was just lodged right in there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you don't even get to see blood. Uh.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they quick. I'm sure if they lingered on it,
Speaker 3: it might not look as good as I think it does.
Speaker 3: But with the editing, I was like, damn it was.
Speaker 2: It was definitely like because you don't anticipate it, I
Speaker 2: think too, And then you weren't. You're wondering like did
Speaker 2: that come from the sniper? Where did it come from?
Speaker 2: Because they don't show the gun shoot it right, like
Speaker 2: it's just shot.
Speaker 3: After he gets a shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like you you never see the
Speaker 2: Russian shoot him and then there's that guy that's with him.
Speaker 2: So I was always wondering, like, oh, did the other
Speaker 2: guy show up and shoot Gregor? Like or did our
Speaker 2: guy decide to shoot Gregor?
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: I think they have to show the gun because Gregor
Speaker 3: starts to he starts to realize, oh no, I'm not
Speaker 3: I'm in danger like he thought he had it locked
Speaker 3: in with the with the.
Speaker 2: But I never remember a gun trained on him. So
Speaker 2: that's why I was like when the gun, when the
Speaker 2: bullet hits him in the head, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, ship, where did that come from.
Speaker 3: I was surprised that the skater got shot.
Speaker 2: I was, ye, well he never RelA information we did
Speaker 2: we Yeah, we had said we saw the sniper in
Speaker 2: the rap.
Speaker 3: Gregor wasn't Yeah I saw it. I like the movie.
Speaker 3: The movie audience member in me was like, oh damn,
Speaker 3: they did it. They really did it well.
Speaker 4: I that also makes the scene with the uh the
Speaker 4: when he's in the car with that first rush in
Speaker 4: and he's ready to shoot the kid like he's not bluffing.
Speaker 4: He was going to shoot that kid, and so the
Speaker 4: idea of him having a sniper in the rafters essentially
Speaker 4: he thought he had the upper hand, that he was
Speaker 4: targeting something that he thought was more the most important
Speaker 4: thing in Mikhal's life, which was a skater and Gregor missing.
Speaker 4: I guess misunderstood that, like he was saying, this is
Speaker 4: the most important thing for him. He's going to protect
Speaker 4: her at all costs so that I will be safe.
Speaker 4: But in reality, whatever's in that case is the most
Speaker 4: important thing now.
Speaker 3: So now they're now the whole ice skating ring is
Speaker 3: like in a tussle, like every everyone. And I really thought,
Speaker 3: because like uh Sam, Sam and the team are going in, right,
Speaker 3: was all hell breaks loose? And I was like, oh no,
Speaker 3: they're gonna get blamed for this. Uh yeah, Like I
Speaker 3: really I thought that was the setup where I thought
Speaker 3: they were about to get have to fight the cops
Speaker 3: and all kinds of stuff, and they kind of do,
Speaker 3: but uh yeah, Like I was like, this is going
Speaker 3: horribly wrong and they're not even there yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then we find out that Seamus is there.
Speaker 4: He he's dressed up as a police officer and he
Speaker 4: ends up shooting Michale and his bodyguard takes the case
Speaker 4: and they realize that he's out there. They get out
Speaker 4: to like where they need to go. And this is
Speaker 4: like the last like Little Chase and Seamus.
Speaker 3: They he's trying to make it the he's trying to
Speaker 3: make it to get away car, but Sam gets there
Speaker 3: first and talks her to just leave him with out
Speaker 3: ing yeah, which you know, like, I I'm surprised, you Like,
Speaker 3: I think that's a good happy medium because he's like
Speaker 3: he's not killing her, but he doesn't expect her to
Speaker 3: help him. He's like just leave.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think the more civilians get shot in the scene too.
Speaker 2: I feel like at the moment where you think she's
Speaker 2: not even gonna get out of there, but she does
Speaker 2: get out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she finds a way. She just fucking high tails
Speaker 4: it out of there.
Speaker 2: And it was Sam's people coming, you see. That was
Speaker 2: the guy again.
Speaker 4: But and this this also, I think pays more to
Speaker 4: that the theory that he's actually really in the CIA
Speaker 4: still m Well, he.
Speaker 2: Works somehow through like on the outskirts. I don't know somehow, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's interesting. I could live in this world a little
Speaker 2: bit longer, if not with these characters, like I could
Speaker 2: see like Jean Renaud's character, like I could follow him
Speaker 2: to his next job, or I don't know, there's just
Speaker 2: I like this world.
Speaker 4: I'll be honest. I would love more Sam and Vincent together. Yes,
Speaker 4: I think those two, those two together, I want to
Speaker 4: see more missions with them.
Speaker 2: I think they would be great. From from fucking Uncharted Uncharted. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: in a way. I do like their their relationship, and
Speaker 2: I like the way it leads, it lens uh it
Speaker 2: ends with them sort of.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But like I said, we we end up having
Speaker 4: the whole situation. Uh Vincent gets shot, Uh Sam chan Us, Yeah,
Speaker 4: the Russians get killed. Uh. Seamous shoots Sam in the shoulder,
Speaker 4: and we're thinking, like, oh ship, you know this is
Speaker 4: it's Seamus is gonna win. And then Vincent you know,
Speaker 4: drags himself essentially we thought was dead, and he drags
Speaker 4: himself to kill Seamus and saves the day. And this
Speaker 4: is where we we actually don't see the conclusion of that.
Speaker 4: We just we end up cutting to the cat cafe
Speaker 4: that we started out our movie in. They're both benches up.
Speaker 4: We see that obviously both of them survived and they're
Speaker 4: talking about the events, and Vincent asked him, was like,
Speaker 4: what actually was in that case? Like I don't remember,
Speaker 4: you know, going back to the the idea of the
Speaker 4: the the the Spy Credo essentially, and rule number two
Speaker 4: is that you don't remember anything. Yeah, exactly. And there
Speaker 4: he goes to reach for his his walls, like I
Speaker 4: I can't even reach for my wall. It's like, don't worry,
Speaker 4: I got this one. And they remain friends they departed.
Speaker 2: He says it's okay, I'll get the next one, meaning
Speaker 2: like I do plan to see you again?
Speaker 4: Yes, And I think I think I think Sam wants
Speaker 4: to see him again too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if for like a bite to eat in
Speaker 2: a cafe again like this or something. Not a job now, absolutely, but.
Speaker 4: Just yeah, absolutely. And we also see that Girdra is
Speaker 4: doing what Sam did at the beginning of the film,
Speaker 4: is she's observing everything that's going on and she I
Speaker 4: think she wants to make contact with Sam again, but
Speaker 4: she's also very hesitant in doing so. And after they
Speaker 4: leave and she's just kind of watching. And that's where
Speaker 4: we get the Vincent's little monologue there at the end,
Speaker 4: talking about the credo essentially, of what a spy is
Speaker 4: and like what they have to live by.
Speaker 2: Do you think it makes contact after like we going dark?
Speaker 4: Well, that's so there was a lot of there was
Speaker 4: actually several different ideas that the director was thinking, and
Speaker 4: this is what they chose, and so I based off
Speaker 4: of what they chose, I think that she does not
Speaker 4: make contact with him again, but there is this there's
Speaker 4: this attraction and a longing to be to connect with
Speaker 4: Sam again. Maybe somewhere down the line they do, but
Speaker 4: that is we just don't know that. It leaves it
Speaker 4: with like a little bit of an ambiguous ending there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like this is the uh, there could
Speaker 3: be a sequel if we get the money, Like yeah, you.
Speaker 4: So, I know. I actually don't think that that's what
Speaker 4: they were going for because there there was so there's
Speaker 4: a couple of different.
Speaker 2: Alternations showing everybody scattering in the wind in a way
Speaker 2: because much like spy movies, that's what happens. People go there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels a little bit more like Ocean's eleven
Speaker 4: at the end, like where everyone just kind of goes
Speaker 4: their own way. And although obviously that did have sequels, yes,
Speaker 4: but it that intention then it doesn't lead.
Speaker 2: It doesn't lean entirely on like a romantic side. It's like, yes,
Speaker 2: this could have happened, but they're not gonna be because
Speaker 2: they can't be.
Speaker 4: Lesser film would have had them reconnect and like they
Speaker 4: drive off into the sunset together. That's not what's gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but that's that's our film. A little bit of post
Speaker 4: production after filming was complete with the main scenes, Frankenheimer
Speaker 4: and cinematographer Robert Frazy filmed all the wide shots of
Speaker 4: the action scenes with some three hundred sun drivers, including
Speaker 4: former F one driver Jean Pierre Jacques Jareer. Normally, this
Speaker 4: would be done with what's called a second unit, which
Speaker 4: is a group that will have a director that answers
Speaker 4: to the main director and captures specialized footage like white
Speaker 4: shots or action scenes that don't necessarily involve the main cast.
Speaker 4: But for this film, either due to the budgets or
Speaker 4: to maintain a certain standard, they chose not to have
Speaker 4: a second unit, so it was done by our main
Speaker 4: cinematographer and the director, our main director. There was an
Speaker 4: alternate ending filmed in which Deirdre is kidnapped and killed
Speaker 4: by the IRA members that felt she betrayed them after
Speaker 4: Sam and Vincent left the cafe, but tests audience hated
Speaker 4: it so much we were giving the ending that we got.
Speaker 4: The film debuted at the Venice Film Festival on September twelfth,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, and gained a wide release on September
Speaker 4: twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, and for many critics, it
Speaker 4: was considered a return to form for John Frankenheimer. Well
Speaker 4: received well critically, it did not perform well in the
Speaker 4: box office, making only seventy million dollars off of a
Speaker 4: fifty five million dollar budget. Films usually need to make
Speaker 4: two or three times their budget to be considered a
Speaker 4: financial success, and it garnered no major award nominations. But
Speaker 4: just before I give my final thoughts on the film,
Speaker 4: how do.
Speaker 2: You not nominate like just that the chase sequences.
Speaker 4: No, there's not really a category for that. I don't
Speaker 4: even think there's a category as far as Yeah, there's
Speaker 4: not really an Oscar award thing now they are working
Speaker 4: on that now. I think there will be a stunt
Speaker 4: awards coming out as far as like for an Oscar,
Speaker 4: like best Stunt or Best Stunt Work.
Speaker 2: Long ago, A long.
Speaker 4: Ass time ago, even going back to like the like
Speaker 4: at the beginning of the sixties because there was being waited.
Speaker 4: Even going back to like the late twenty the twenties
Speaker 4: and thirties, there was a lot of stunt work exactly
Speaker 4: there should there should have always been this category. But
Speaker 4: we're finally getting to the point where they are recognizing that.
Speaker 2: We remember silent, We're meant to believe that that stunt
Speaker 2: was done by the octor, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: And in some cases, yes it is. But like as
Speaker 4: far as like actually best stunt work, I think that
Speaker 4: is going to be a category here coming up very soon.
Speaker 4: It's just not the reality. But there is great stunt
Speaker 4: work that was done here. But as far as our
Speaker 4: rating system goes, we have at the top instant classic,
Speaker 4: buy it, rent it, just watch the trailer, or never
Speaker 4: ever watch a ship. And my final thoughts on brown In.
Speaker 4: As a young man, this was a regular watch for me,
Speaker 4: but I'm surprised to find that this isn't a film
Speaker 4: that's talked about much or that a lot of people
Speaker 4: don't really know about. To me, this is a great
Speaker 4: mixture of new school and old school, combining fast paced
Speaker 4: nineties action with the slow burn of neo noor aesthetics. Well,
Speaker 4: I enjoy the disparity in pacing. I can see where
Speaker 4: that could be a detriment for some. The ensemble cast
Speaker 4: is perfect for me, with a good mixture of great
Speaker 4: established actors, great character actors, and some relative newcomers. The
Speaker 4: Sam Ambisson relationship is enjoyable to me, and I would
Speaker 4: love to see them on more adventures together. As we
Speaker 4: talked about, the car chase is incredible, deserves to be
Speaker 4: in the same conversation as the Chase and Bullet, or
Speaker 4: the French Connection and any of the other great car
Speaker 4: chases in cinema. Another spy film in which we have
Speaker 4: a mcguffin which ultimately we never see what it is,
Speaker 4: and you know, all the things we talked about, like
Speaker 4: this film just this also is reminiscent of Copland, This
Speaker 4: great ensemble cast that is just goes way under the
Speaker 4: radar that not a lot of people talked about. And
Speaker 4: I think it's like a little bit of like what
Speaker 4: we talked about, maybe some of the pacing issues or
Speaker 4: characters that maybe should be merged, and it just it
Speaker 4: doesn't fully work. And not that it's not a good film.
Speaker 4: It's a great film, but maybe it's just like these
Speaker 4: little things that pile up into something that where it
Speaker 4: just does not get recognized as the great film that
Speaker 4: it is. And so with that, my rating is a
Speaker 4: by it slash instant classic. Mister Matt, it's your first
Speaker 4: time watching this, what are your final thoughts on Ronan?
Speaker 3: I agree with you the parts that definitely stick out
Speaker 3: is the car chase scenes. But I also I really
Speaker 3: we enjoyed the gunfights. I felt like the gunfights weren't stylized.
Speaker 3: They felt real and gritty and stuck with me after
Speaker 3: I watched it. The beginning was rough. I think it
Speaker 3: felt clunky. I know we're supposed to be made to
Speaker 3: feel frustrated for saying like Sam's supposed to be frustrated,
Speaker 3: so we feel frustrated too, and like I get it,
Speaker 3: but like that's just not an enjoyable experience. But like
Speaker 3: after after the they get to the hotel and start
Speaker 3: casing the hotel and get ready for the actual heist,
Speaker 3: I think the movie really takes a turn. I hope
Speaker 3: people watching it for the first time let their self
Speaker 3: get through that beginning. The pacing is a little off.
Speaker 3: I feel like we're either dialed up till eleven or
Speaker 3: dialed down to two. That's like there's no real medium.
Speaker 3: I did enjoy the scenery, Like, I don't think this
Speaker 3: movie would have been as good if it wasn't in Europe.
Speaker 3: If like, if this had been in an American city,
Speaker 3: I think it would have felt totally different and not
Speaker 3: to the movies benefit. Well. Also, the the acting. I
Speaker 3: enjoy Sam, I enjoy hanging out with Sam, I enjoy Dedrah.
Speaker 3: I think they're The love story, though, was a bit forced.
Speaker 3: I would have liked it. I find let them make
Speaker 3: out or whatever, But like at the at the end,
Speaker 3: like I think they're trying to project that he has
Speaker 3: fallen in love with her, and I think it should
Speaker 3: have been more like he has a deep friendship with her,
Speaker 3: just like everyone else in the group, and that you
Speaker 3: might be able to read it that way. I just
Speaker 3: feel like that's not the way they wanted us to
Speaker 3: read it. But that being said, I'm really glad I
Speaker 3: watched this. I probably will watch this again.
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 3: I'm going to give this a rented slash by it.
Speaker 3: And if if any of your friends like action movies
Speaker 3: and they haven't heard of this movie, let them know
Speaker 3: about it, Hydro Bird, what's you're writing for this movie?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: My my review is pretty similar to you guys. Uh
Speaker 2: you know, I just I think the stunt work and
Speaker 2: driving sequences are just jaw dropping. They still hold up. Now,
Speaker 2: I was worried that they won and I was like,
Speaker 2: well do they still hold up? And I do think
Speaker 2: that they kind of hold them. They propped the movie
Speaker 2: up a little bit, like, but there's still movie here.
Speaker 2: There's plot, there's good acting, there's a good cast, good characters.
Speaker 2: Characters aren't necessarily like deep, but there's something there they're like.
Speaker 2: They not to say that they're not deeper. There's you
Speaker 2: don't get a lot, but there maybe there's a deepness.
Speaker 2: But we only scratch the surface with some of them, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: but they are acted well. Like Larry, I still feel
Speaker 2: like Larry has a life outside this movie, and he
Speaker 2: has wants and needs and likes. He just doesn't express
Speaker 2: them all through words, but we get to see them.
Speaker 2: He likes to smoke, he goes out shopping, he's gotta
Speaker 2: taste for cars, driving food. We get little bits of
Speaker 2: things with people that like, you know, whiskey or like
Speaker 2: stuff like that, cigarettes, little bits of character. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of showing not telling in this cinematography I think
Speaker 2: is amazing and it showcases France. I thought in a
Speaker 2: good way too. It's not your, you know, everyday France locations.
Speaker 2: It's not the touristy stuff. I like these bits where
Speaker 2: like the cars go off road in a moment where
Speaker 2: you're just like, oh shit, we're going off road and
Speaker 2: we're cutting through the woods and I forget like I'm
Speaker 2: even in France. I'm just like, wore this. This looks cool,
Speaker 2: Like where's this wyoming? You know, like you know, I
Speaker 2: don't even know. It's just a cool I like the
Speaker 2: setting and the sets. They all feel real, you know,
Speaker 2: it's all on location. None of it felt like Hollywood
Speaker 2: set design. It all just felt like real areas that
Speaker 2: they filmed, and I appreciate that. It lends an authenticity
Speaker 2: to this film where you feel like you're watching a
Speaker 2: real like like spy heist movie, like this is just
Speaker 2: taking place where a fly on the wall, if you will.
Speaker 2: I really like the plot and like be intrigued that
Speaker 2: builds with it, the double crosses and the swerves and
Speaker 2: the plot. Some of it's extra, but for the most part.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're here for. It's it's gonna
Speaker 2: be like this kind of tight woven story that's gonna
Speaker 2: zig and zag a little bit and keep us on
Speaker 2: our toes. As well as the characters in it. I
Speaker 2: did like this sort of like spy thriller asque heisk
Speaker 2: milange if you will. I think him paying homage to
Speaker 2: several genres and films that inspire him, or that he
Speaker 2: likes doing his own version of I think it's cool.
Speaker 2: I like that this movie kind of weighs a little
Speaker 2: bit out on his sleeve in a way, but it's
Speaker 2: its own thing. Uh I. And I said I'd like
Speaker 2: the characters, like we don't get a lot of them,
Speaker 2: but I like them. I like Deirdre, I like Larry,
Speaker 2: I really like Vincent, and Sam's a likable guy, and
Speaker 2: even like the little bits in between, like his his
Speaker 2: guy that he goes to and Seamus. These other characters
Speaker 2: are Russians. There's not much going on there, but for
Speaker 2: the most part though, it's all fleshed out. I I
Speaker 2: do like the beginning, but I do have issues with
Speaker 2: the pace as well. Matt. I think there are moments
Speaker 2: where we just dip we get some really high end
Speaker 2: action scenes and then we get moments of a little
Speaker 2: bit of drag or redundancy here and there. Maybe that
Speaker 2: blowed the film just a little bit. It could just
Speaker 2: be a little tight. This movie could have been dialed
Speaker 2: in a little bit on some certain things, and I
Speaker 2: think it could have been talked about more and held
Speaker 2: up higher. I like, I wish we got a little
Speaker 2: bit more from the cast, like especially Larry, he's just
Speaker 2: very quiet. It's a little long, like I said, and
Speaker 2: you know, drags here and there. It's a little anti
Speaker 2: climactic towards the end, like the whole showdown at the
Speaker 2: at the skating rink just felt a little extra. And
Speaker 2: then it's all kind of tied up very neatly in
Speaker 2: a way like yeah, not everybody's like gonna have the
Speaker 2: happiest ending, Like yeah, we can't be friends all the time,
Speaker 2: and you know my love interest is but she's still
Speaker 2: out there, she's still living her life, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like, yeah, you're nothing together, but and you
Speaker 2: got the bad guy at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: and he got the case. So I don't know, I
Speaker 2: think it played a little safe there on the end,
Speaker 2: and it's missing something that I just can't put my
Speaker 2: finger on, but that would make it an instant classic,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. There's just something missing. That's
Speaker 2: the reason maybe why other people don't pass this movie
Speaker 2: around as much. But that's what we do here at
Speaker 2: the Cine of Me Goes. And I think this is
Speaker 2: a perfect film for us, because it is a really
Speaker 2: good movie that you should check out. And I do
Speaker 2: think it's one of the last really great fucking DeNiro rolls.
Speaker 2: If you want to see him like kicking ass and
Speaker 2: doing like leading man type shit, yeah, this is it.
Speaker 2: And this is outside a little bit outside his wheelhouse too,
Speaker 2: And I thought he showed some different range here that
Speaker 2: I appreciate. He still brought the stuff we know him for,
Speaker 2: the witty comebacks and you know, the assertiveness and the confidence.
Speaker 2: But I thought it was cool to see DeNiro's in France.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know. But with all that said,
Speaker 2: I'm going to give Ronan. I'm going to give it
Speaker 2: a buy. From nineteen ninety eight, Ronan alould buy. I
Speaker 2: think this is worth owning. And yeah, I think it's
Speaker 2: definitely worth owning.
Speaker 4: That's awesome, all right, everyone's pretty high on it, all right, Berg,
Speaker 4: next week is your pick? What are we doing?
Speaker 2: It's my pick and we're keeping it Japanese themed with
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three's Rising Sun based on the Michael Brighton book.
Speaker 4: Oh, it will be our second film the base off
Speaker 4: of Michael Freton novel.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What was the first thirteen thirteenth word? That's right,
Speaker 2: I forget about that one. Eaters of the Dead is
Speaker 2: the name of the book.
Speaker 4: That's correct. Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2: It's a good movie. Have you seen the movie.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited for the movie next week. I've heard
Speaker 3: good things.
Speaker 2: It's from my.
Speaker 3: Sean Connery's last great movie.
Speaker 2: So then it has other themes like with this movie,
Speaker 2: then we can connect it. Cool. Yeah, so that'll be
Speaker 2: our pick for next week. It's a Rise Thin Sun
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety three. It's starring Wesley Snipes and Sean Conrie.
Speaker 4: If you're looking, we've got a lot of returning champions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got several.
Speaker 4: All right, all right, Well, we all have other projects
Speaker 4: around here, myself included. You can find me on YouTube
Speaker 4: Circle of Drinks podcasts. Me and my co host Andy
Speaker 4: We talked about all sorts of different things, movies, news, topics, philosophy,
Speaker 4: What name you? And you can find us on Instagram,
Speaker 4: Circle of Drinks podcasts and on x app podcast cj BG.
Speaker 4: You do some fun stuff. What do you do?
Speaker 2: I do? I do another show called The Cut Above
Speaker 2: Horror Review, where we rate and review horror movies each week.
Speaker 2: John Jacquelin and myself. We have a great time. Sometimes
Speaker 2: Rob Zombie joins us. You know, we have guests. It's fun.
Speaker 2: If you like horror movies. I just want to hear
Speaker 2: people talk about films. Check us out on all the podcasters.
Speaker 2: You can find us on socials, on Instagram at a
Speaker 2: cut above one word, dot r Underscore Review, on x
Speaker 2: at a Horror and on Facebook at a Cut Above
Speaker 2: Horror Review. What about you, Matt? You have a side
Speaker 2: quest that you do here and there? Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I own and manage a historical fencing school
Speaker 3: in Jacksonville, Florida. We focus on historical European martial arts.
Speaker 3: We do rapier, long longsword and army sword and buckler.
Speaker 3: So if you're in the northeast Florida area, you should
Speaker 3: swing by. Also, we have we have a podcast talking
Speaker 3: about historical fencing. Our backlog is still up it's called
Speaker 3: Swords and Stereo. So if you want to learn about
Speaker 3: historical fencing, go check it out.
Speaker 4: And berg if they want to watch more cinemigos or
Speaker 4: listen to more cinemigos, where where can they find us?
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at Cinemigo's Underscore podcast,
Speaker 2: or you can send us an email at the Cinamigos
Speaker 2: podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4: You can also reach us on x at Tres Cinnemigos
Speaker 4: t R E S ce I E M I G
Speaker 4: O S, or on our letterbox and amigos and make
Speaker 4: sure to give us those five star reviews and leave
Speaker 4: some comments on the episodes either on Spotify or speaker
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Speaker 3: We're also on Facebook, on Facebook dot com, slash c
Speaker 3: and amigos.
Speaker 4: What were you doing back here, lady? I never walked
Speaker 4: into a place I don't know how to walk out of.
Speaker 4: Then why would you walk into that van? You know
Speaker 4: the reason?
Speaker 2: Hey, you badger, we ain't got no budges, we don't
Speaker 2: need no vudges. I don't have to show you on
Speaker 2: U stinking