Speaker 1: Welcome to mid Rats with sal from Commander Salamander, an
Speaker 1: Eagle one from Eagle Speak at Seer Shore your home
Speaker 1: for a discussion of national security issues and all things maritime.
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Speaker 1: If you can't join us live, you can catch us
Speaker 1: at a time This more on your convenience. In today's show,
Speaker 1: we're going to try to address the late breaking news.
Speaker 1: It's funny how that works out is if you find
Speaker 1: yourself going through your news feed and you're trying to
Speaker 1: get your mind about what's going on in Syria when
Speaker 1: the damn broke, frozen conflicts don't freeze forever, and lo
Speaker 1: and behold, we find ourselves here on Sunday, the day
Speaker 1: after Pearl Harbor Day, that Asad and his family and
Speaker 1: a few of his little staff have departed to Moscow,
Speaker 1: which opens up a new chapter in a very long
Speaker 1: running story of the conflict in Syria that involves a
Speaker 1: lot of their neighbors and some major power, not just
Speaker 1: locally but internationally as well. And if you're concerned about
Speaker 1: the jihadist organizations that have been part of our day
Speaker 1: to day life for decades, the instability that we've seen
Speaker 1: in Europe and other countries even in our hemisphere, about
Speaker 1: mass migration, the rights to religious minorities in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: human suffering, well, this is a good good way to
Speaker 1: get a handle on all those players and what we
Speaker 1: should be looking for and having your scan as the
Speaker 1: events in Syria move forward and kind of help tackle
Speaker 1: these big pixel topics with us Today is returning guests.
Speaker 1: Seth Fulsom, Colonel, United States Marine Corps, retired. He's the
Speaker 1: author of an exceptional series of nonfiction books. His most
Speaker 1: recent will be Nothing Here Worth Dying for Task Force
Speaker 1: Line in Iraq. It's coming out in February, but you
Speaker 1: can pre order if you want to. And we're going
Speaker 1: to talk to him about the book here in a
Speaker 1: few months, I hope. But for now we're gonna just
Speaker 1: kind of use that as a kicking off point to
Speaker 1: talk about the events in Syria. Seth, Welcome back to
Speaker 1: mid Rights.
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks guys, it's great to be back here with
Speaker 2: you all.
Speaker 1: We mentioned in the title of your book it says
Speaker 1: task Force Lion and Iraq, and so people go, okay, Iraq,
Speaker 1: that's not Syria. But the events that you were involved
Speaker 1: in and the folks you helped lead and Task Force
Speaker 1: Lion that you wrote your book about, it has a
Speaker 1: lot to do with the events going on in Syria
Speaker 1: right now and some of those players, some of those
Speaker 1: confused international streams talk for a little bit as a
Speaker 1: stepping off point because there are there have been Americans
Speaker 1: on the ground in Syria and in northern Iraq for
Speaker 1: a very very long time that are under fire right
Speaker 1: now and just kind of give people an idea, you know,
Speaker 1: what was that connection and how does that connection bring
Speaker 1: us through to today's concerns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, that's a that's a great question, you know,
Speaker 2: so like try to try to set the ground here.
Speaker 2: You know. Task Force Allon was a it was an
Speaker 2: advised and assist task force and it had its its
Speaker 2: origins in the early days of the counter ISIS campaign
Speaker 2: in a Rock and Syria. The Marine Corps ponied up
Speaker 2: a couple of Advised and Assists teams, one based at
Speaker 2: Alasade and one based at Alta Cootam. There's two air
Speaker 2: bases there, and their whole role was to advise, assist
Speaker 2: and enable the Rocky security forces in the fight against ISIS.
Speaker 2: And so by the time my team got there in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, really what the mission was still overall focused
Speaker 2: on countering ISIS, expelling ISIS out of a rock, but
Speaker 2: the conflict had really it really morphed into something much
Speaker 2: broader than that. And one of the one of the
Speaker 2: groups that I won't say we got sideways with, but
Speaker 2: was really a constant thorn in our side the entire
Speaker 2: time were the she and militia groups that were part
Speaker 2: of the Iraqi Popular Mobilization Front. And what we what
Speaker 2: we learned very quickly was that, you know, all of
Speaker 2: the she and militia groups, we called them the SMGs.
Speaker 2: They were part of the PMF, the overall Rocky Popular
Speaker 2: Mobilization Front, but not all PMF units were SMG's. And
Speaker 2: what we learned from our leaders at c Jtfoir and
Speaker 2: there and the coalition is conflated the two at your peril,
Speaker 2: and even over time we were compelled to not even
Speaker 2: refer to those groups as she and militia groups or SMGs.
Speaker 2: So we were highly encouraged to use you know, less
Speaker 2: confrontational terms like non compliant PMF. And there was a
Speaker 2: reason for that, And the reason was that in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: when when ISIS was just barreling through a rock, cutting
Speaker 2: through the country like a like a hot knife through butter,
Speaker 2: the Iraqi, the uniformed Iraqi security forces, primarily the I
Speaker 2: Rocky Army, they pretty much crumbled and uh and they
Speaker 2: went in all directions and and largely allowed Isis to
Speaker 2: take over large swaths of a rock, and the only
Speaker 2: unit who really stood up initially against the invading ISIS
Speaker 2: forces were the SA militia groups, groups like teb Asbola
Speaker 2: who we referred to as ah and the Saba Hawk
Speaker 2: Brigade which you know AA b Or, and these small
Speaker 2: Shea militia groups, the SMGs. They were these mobile, in
Speaker 2: some cases lightly armed, in some cases heavily armed, but
Speaker 2: very aggressive forces that that didn't buckle in the face
Speaker 2: of ISIS. And so over time there was the realization
Speaker 2: there in the coalition and especially in the Iraqi government
Speaker 2: that it hadn't been for the militia groups, then ISIS
Speaker 2: would have they would have lodged themselves in Baghdad, and
Speaker 2: and probably the whole thing would have been lost. What
Speaker 2: what comp and so and with that was the understanding
Speaker 2: that once ISIS was finally expelled from a rock, the
Speaker 2: s m g s and the p MF they they
Speaker 2: were going to be an enduring part of the you know,
Speaker 2: the security apparatus in a rock. What made that so
Speaker 2: challenging and difficult for a lot of people like me
Speaker 2: and my team to accept was that a lot of
Speaker 2: those those SMGs, they were directly influenced if not flat
Speaker 2: out controlled and directed by by Iran. They're you know,
Speaker 2: largely supported, influenced, and and given their marching orders, and
Speaker 2: so as task Force a lion during the time that
Speaker 2: I was over there, as we worked with the Iraqi
Speaker 2: security forces to move farther and farther west and expel
Speaker 2: the ISIS forces that were there in western aland Bar Proper.
Speaker 2: In each operation that we did with the Iraqi army,
Speaker 2: the EMF also had to be a part of it,
Speaker 2: but as an American commander there, I was prohibited from
Speaker 2: coordinating with or working with the SMGs. We had tribal
Speaker 2: militia forces with us who were also technically part of
Speaker 2: the PMF, but they were largely Sunni tribal forces who
Speaker 2: worked with the Iraqi commander that I was advising and
Speaker 2: the soft units that worked alongside us. They had the
Speaker 2: authority to coordinate and work with and partner with the
Speaker 2: Sunni tribal militia forces, but like me, they didn't have
Speaker 2: the authority to work with the SMGs, And so the
Speaker 2: SMGs and the other PMF units they were they had
Speaker 2: to be a part of every operation we did, largely
Speaker 2: especially the final operation we did that that moved on
Speaker 2: the border town of Time in October and November of
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. And so by the time the big operation
Speaker 2: that we did called Desert Lion with the IS, by
Speaker 2: the time that was largely complete and the Iraqi Prime
Speaker 2: Minister declared al Ambar Province liberated and secured and Ice expelled,
Speaker 2: we still had the challenge of just a host of
Speaker 2: these SMGs there in western al Mbar with US and
Speaker 2: then beginning to kind of do their own thing, taking
Speaker 2: direction from no one but people like Abuel Mahandas and
Speaker 2: cost some Silamani and their masters in Iran. And so meanwhile,
Speaker 2: while all of this was going on, but the ISIS
Speaker 2: fight in Syria was going heavy as well, and you know,
Speaker 2: we had that we the US and the Coalition had
Speaker 2: units that were in Syria supporting the Syrian Democratic forces
Speaker 2: who were the you know, the counter ISIS largely Kurdish
Speaker 2: militia forces that they were, but they were also opposed
Speaker 2: to uh Assade rule. So this whole thing became this
Speaker 2: this really like hard to decipher mosaic of all these
Speaker 2: different units that all had different plans, different different alliances,
Speaker 2: different capabilities, and it was just you know, in a nutshell,
Speaker 2: it was really hard to understand, and at the same
Speaker 2: time it was hard to do the things that we
Speaker 2: needed to do to support the Rocky Army without getting
Speaker 2: sideways with the PMF and the SMGs, but at the
Speaker 2: same time maintaining our own force protector posture because we
Speaker 2: were unsure of, you know how what was going to
Speaker 2: happen if we had to deal with these people had
Speaker 2: on because one of the things that we always remembered
Speaker 2: was there were elements in some of these SMGs. Some
Speaker 2: of these were the same guys that were fighting the
Speaker 2: Americans in their early days of the Iraq War, and
Speaker 2: so there was really no love loss between the Americans
Speaker 2: and the SMG.
Speaker 3: Well, it appears that Abu Mohammad al Jilani, who's the
Speaker 3: head of the HTS, is a Sunni Muslim, and which
Speaker 3: would make him, I guess opposed to the Iranian Shia
Speaker 3: Muslim forces. But he was he was part of Al Qayiti,
Speaker 3: was part of ISIS at some point. I mean, is
Speaker 3: it possible that that that person who was in that
Speaker 3: position could convert from being a global jihadist to being
Speaker 3: a let's free Syrian from the Assads and go from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean that's what makes this whole thing
Speaker 2: so complicated and just I mean flat out crazy, right
Speaker 2: because you know everybody is now saying, all right, Jilani
Speaker 2: and HTS they're in there, they deposed Bachelor al Assade,
Speaker 2: and everything's going to be rainbows and unicorns after this.
Speaker 2: Well maybe maybe not. Like you said, Jilani was a silaucist.
Speaker 2: He was a uh you know, his his organization wasn't
Speaker 2: was an offshoot of al Qaeda. He fought with al
Speaker 2: Qaeda in Iraq, and he has publicly said that he
Speaker 2: is trying to moderate the position of HTS and that
Speaker 2: organization to make it more inclusive, less less extremist. But
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, HTS is still on
Speaker 2: the US Foreign Terror Organization's list. Here here's the thing,
Speaker 2: this is, this is what concerns me. And I'm always
Speaker 2: always wary of making comparisons to to other wars, other conflicts,
Speaker 2: because there will always be people that come out and say, nope,
Speaker 2: it's completely different. And that said, what this really reminds
Speaker 2: me of is it reminds me a lot of the
Speaker 2: Afghan Civil War, where you know, there was a Soviet
Speaker 2: backed government in Afghanistan after the Soviets left. The minute
Speaker 2: Soviet aid dried up, the Afghan government in the Afghan
Speaker 2: military couldn't defend itself against all the different factions in
Speaker 2: the Northern Alliance and then through the Taliban in there
Speaker 2: as well. And at the end of the day, the
Speaker 2: units they marched on Cobble and took over was the Taliban.
Speaker 2: And and I think that there were a lot of
Speaker 2: people out that there were that were like, hey, yeah, great,
Speaker 2: the freedom fighters they have, they've won. But everybody knows
Speaker 2: what happened after that was there was okay, great, they've
Speaker 2: taken over the Afghan government in the country. But then
Speaker 2: the infighting begins. And I think that that's something that
Speaker 2: happens a lot of times when there is a government
Speaker 2: that's overthrown when there's a revolution. Is that victory over
Speaker 2: the defending government, that's just the first step, and what
Speaker 2: comes next is going to be the real question. I
Speaker 2: think there's going to be a lot of infighting between
Speaker 2: the different groups. There's going to be a lot of bloodshed,
Speaker 2: and you know, ultimately the people who are going to
Speaker 2: pay the price are going to be the Syrians. They've
Speaker 2: already been dealing with this, and so you know to
Speaker 2: eleven or so, and really throughout most of Asad's almost
Speaker 2: twenty five years in power, they're going to continue to
Speaker 2: be the ones that pay the price, just like the
Speaker 2: Afghanis war in Afghanistan after the civil war.
Speaker 1: It's when I was trying to get my head around it.
Speaker 1: And when you look at there's a variety of pretty
Speaker 1: good maps out there that outline because it is it
Speaker 1: is a nation with a majority but a lot of
Speaker 1: not insignificant minorities, and these maps will outline, you know,
Speaker 1: where your religious groups are. Mostly in the west. When
Speaker 1: the Sunni hst took Hama and then Homes Homes or
Speaker 1: ever you pronounced it, and then moved on to Damascus,
Speaker 1: they separated the coastal area which is mostly Shia and Christian,
Speaker 1: and over near the Goal on you have the drus
Speaker 1: And who we've been partnered with for a long time.
Speaker 1: To the east, I think it's like ten fifteen percent
Speaker 1: of the population are Kourage and Yezide over in the
Speaker 1: far East. But in that juicy middle you've got the
Speaker 1: cities and it's thirteen percent of the population were Shia Alawite,
Speaker 1: mostly who the Asad clan came from and I ran
Speaker 1: worked with them Hesbla that's been taken a beating pretty hard.
Speaker 1: So you have a very similar mix where just like
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, we're doing our best to figure out the
Speaker 1: largest cohort, which were the Pashtune, but then you had
Speaker 1: the tadd Jeeks, the Juzbecks, you had the Hazara who
Speaker 1: are also Shia in the middle of the country. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people were thinking, Okay, the rebel forces
Speaker 1: have taken Damascus, and it's kind of like that meme
Speaker 1: from the movie that came out last year Civil War
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, you're Syrian rebel group. What type
Speaker 1: of rebel group are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So this really if people expect this situation to become
Speaker 1: really peaceful, I don't see how you get there, because
Speaker 1: the only secular power that's been around there was the
Speaker 1: old early starting them was the nineteen fifties, the Bath
Speaker 1: Party in Syria, just like you know Hussein's Bath Party
Speaker 1: in Iraq that that'sn't a dust been in history, and
Speaker 1: what's left behind with there's going to be no love
Speaker 1: lost because of the Iranian proxies and what they've done,
Speaker 1: and it's it's going to be a mess, And I
Speaker 1: think what's dangerous And I'd be interested for you because
Speaker 1: part of it is we have a close connection to
Speaker 1: the Kourage and Yezidis are erstwhile NATO allies Turkey, they
Speaker 1: have troops in country, they have their own little rubber
Speaker 1: group that they're supporting. There's the Russians in the far west.
Speaker 1: So it's not just it's worse than Afghanistan in a
Speaker 1: lot of regards is you don't have the native battle
Speaker 1: going on, but you also have state actors, some of
Speaker 1: which border it, that are actively involved internally, not just
Speaker 1: with proxies but actual there. Russia has other distractions. But
Speaker 1: I keep looking for what the Turkish game is going
Speaker 1: to be as this chaos goes forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that, you know, you hit it
Speaker 2: on the head when you were talking about the different
Speaker 2: religious and ethnic groups and the localities of where they are.
Speaker 2: You know, there was a there was a great map
Speaker 2: that I found yesterday that I was looking at and
Speaker 2: I think, I mean it was like from like two
Speaker 2: o'clock yesterday, and I think it's already changed. But you
Speaker 2: look at these different colors of who's where and it's
Speaker 2: a pretty good representation of how the ethnic groups in
Speaker 2: that region. And I think everybody knows this. They don't
Speaker 2: adhere to international boards. So you have the that Kurdish
Speaker 2: population across the northern part of Syria that also stretches
Speaker 2: into a rock and into Turkey. And you've got that
Speaker 2: the sunny center that goes from you know, the bottom
Speaker 2: half of a rock into the center of Syria that
Speaker 2: also stretches down into Jordan. So if people looked at
Speaker 2: a map that was based more on the ethnic groups,
Speaker 2: it would look nothing like you know, what we think
Speaker 2: of as the modern day Middle East and the levant
Speaker 2: you know that you were talking about the meme of
Speaker 2: you know what kind are you? I mean, and all
Speaker 2: the different groups in there, And what that reminds me
Speaker 2: of is there was a there's a movie that came
Speaker 2: out years ago about the genocide in Rwanda, and there's
Speaker 2: a scene in there where there are a bunch of
Speaker 2: reporters at a press conference and the person from the
Speaker 2: Department of State is giving this press conference about you know,
Speaker 2: what's happening between the Bouchiers and the Tixies and how
Speaker 2: terrible it is and this, you know, we're looking at
Speaker 2: a genocide and you know, one of the reporters raises
Speaker 2: his hand and says, which side is the good guys?
Speaker 2: And and there's no, there's no answer to that. If
Speaker 2: you look at the map of what's going on in
Speaker 2: Syria and a Rock, and there's no there's no one
Speaker 2: group that are the good guys, and it's everybody has
Speaker 2: their own interests. Everybody had all these different groups have
Speaker 2: their own backers. And I think you know what what
Speaker 2: we saw with the Syrian army and and the bachelor
Speaker 2: Alissad's regime is when when Russia and Iran and Hasbola,
Speaker 2: when when they were overwhelmed by their own issues that
Speaker 2: they were dealing with and they just couldn't support Massad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: his forces crumbled really quickly. So what you know what
Speaker 2: this looks like going forward, I don't know, because, like
Speaker 2: you said, Turkey is is one of our significant, significant allies.
Speaker 2: We still have interests in a Rock and that's that's
Speaker 2: why we're still in there. And at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, like you said, you know, I think everybody
Speaker 2: can agree that that bachelor Alisade, the guy was a bastard.
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's there's no two ways about it,
Speaker 2: and and Saddam Hussain was a bastard also. But even
Speaker 2: even after I had done two tours in a rock
Speaker 2: between two thousand and eight and twenty seventeen as an advisor,
Speaker 2: all the way to twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, when
Speaker 2: I would sit down and and just you know, have
Speaker 2: chai and smoke some cigarettes with my Rocky partners, they
Speaker 2: would still talk about, you know, Saddam was the guy
Speaker 2: was a bastard, but he kept this place together. And
Speaker 2: that's that's been an underlying theme I think with the
Speaker 2: at least with you know, the Iraqi Army, was that
Speaker 2: this place fractured after the strong man was gone. And
Speaker 2: then I think there's a good chance we're going to
Speaker 2: see something like that in Syria as well. Yeah.
Speaker 3: One of the interesting aspects of this is that this
Speaker 3: seems to be many people are pointing to this being
Speaker 3: being bad for Russia, bad for Iran, and I'm thinking, Okay, well,
Speaker 3: if this guy is bad speaking of al Jawani, maybe
Speaker 3: he's just the has the movie a lot of recording
Speaker 3: movies as master Commander. Maybe just the lesser, lesser of
Speaker 3: two weavils. I mean, we're just we'll have to go
Speaker 3: along for the ride and see what he's actually gonna do. Now,
Speaker 3: he did engage and has engaged for a while in
Speaker 3: some kind of pr campaign just to show his moderation.
Speaker 3: He was, you know, they reopened a Christian church, uh,
Speaker 3: and I guess it did or wherever the place is.
Speaker 3: And there's some other aspects of what he's been doing
Speaker 3: to try and show the world that he's not the
Speaker 3: fire breathing monster that we may fear. But I don't
Speaker 3: know how much of that it's just some kind of uh,
Speaker 3: smokescreen and how much of that is reality.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a great point. And I think even
Speaker 2: to a certain degree, and I have to be mindful
Speaker 2: about how I say this, but one of the ways
Speaker 2: that has Bulah in Lebanon, one of the ways that
Speaker 2: they established and maintained their legitimacy there was they didn't
Speaker 2: only focus on the militant arm that went around killing people,
Speaker 2: you know. They they really fostered their their political arm
Speaker 2: as well, so that they would become part of they
Speaker 2: could become part of a government apparatus there, they could
Speaker 2: become a ruling organization or a governing organization as it were,
Speaker 2: and they're not just focused on you know, violence and
Speaker 2: and and overthrow. And I think that's maybe one, maybe
Speaker 2: one of the things that differentiates a group like them,
Speaker 2: or potentially HTS, from a group like isis IS. I
Speaker 2: don't know that ISIS really has a plan to truly govern,
Speaker 2: you know that if they're stretching all the way from
Speaker 2: Iraq and the Levant all the way down to isis
Speaker 2: a down in Central Asia and Afghanistan, I don't know
Speaker 2: that they have a plan or an ability to moderate
Speaker 2: what they're doing. And to your point, you know, Jilani
Speaker 2: and HTS, if you if you think of if he's
Speaker 2: a rational actor, you know, maybe he is going to
Speaker 2: see it as yet we need to kind of tone
Speaker 2: things down a bit and just become, you know, a
Speaker 2: a regional burning body that keeps keeps it inside the house,
Speaker 2: keeps it inside the family in Syria, and doesn't attempt
Speaker 2: to project it outside the borders of that country. Because
Speaker 2: I think that that's when you get actors like the
Speaker 2: United States and others, that's when we start getting nervous.
Speaker 2: Is Hey, Okay, we've got this new group of people
Speaker 2: who are in charge there, and what actions are they
Speaker 2: going to take outside of their borders. That's going to
Speaker 2: compel us to get involved again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know one of the really big
Speaker 1: losers here besides the Syrian people. No I did. I
Speaker 1: saw two reports today that on the Turkish border there
Speaker 1: are a lot of Syrian refugees who are trying to
Speaker 1: go home. So that's that's interesting. If that trend continues,
Speaker 1: that's a good secondary indicator that that maybe the applied
Speaker 1: optimism that you and Mark were talking about. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe this son of a bitch is the best ton
Speaker 1: of a bitch we're going to find, and maybe he'll
Speaker 1: he'll tried to make sure that because you look out
Speaker 1: of his point of view, what references in that part
Speaker 1: of the world. Does he have Libya Odyssey dawn? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the dawn of it, an odyssey for the
Speaker 1: Libyan people. That's still mad Maxistan, and then we have
Speaker 1: the unending civil war in Yemen and too regards how
Speaker 1: sectarian he is, if everybody's lucky, he'll look at it
Speaker 1: and try to find some way not to have Syria
Speaker 1: degrade down too.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 1: But I think the big loser here has got to
Speaker 1: be Iran is they have been using Syria and defending
Speaker 1: Syria as a way station for them to support their
Speaker 1: proxies Hesba lah He also had Hamas and the Houthis
Speaker 1: down south. It was great to have that because the
Speaker 1: Iranians directly and indirectly via their proxies, they've been coming
Speaker 1: at us. They've been coming at everybody. So probably the
Speaker 1: most interesting briefs that are going to come up this
Speaker 1: week are going to be in Tehran. That has really
Speaker 1: got to impact act what in some ways had been
Speaker 1: a very successful influence operation on their part that really
Speaker 1: kicked off in two thousand and three in Iraq. This
Speaker 1: this does set them back quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and along with that, I think that this
Speaker 2: is going to be a problem potentially for a rock
Speaker 2: as well. And that's only because, if not only because
Speaker 2: you know, from what I've read in the last twenty
Speaker 2: four or forty eight hours, upwards of one to two
Speaker 2: thousand Syrian troops actually went over through the Alkeyme border,
Speaker 2: crossing into the area that I was in with Task
Speaker 2: Force Lion, just to get away from what was happening
Speaker 2: in Syria. And so you know, and I'm only going
Speaker 2: to assume that the MG's like kh that were so
Speaker 2: predominant around the Al Khan district. I can only assume
Speaker 2: that they are still there, and you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know if they're going to act as a welcoming party
Speaker 2: for all these Syrian soldiers and what they're going to
Speaker 2: do with them, and are they going to are those
Speaker 2: Syrian army refugees, are they going to become you know,
Speaker 2: fresh recruits for the Shea militias that are they're still
Speaker 2: in a rock I don't know, but it's I think
Speaker 2: it's a problem for the Rocky.
Speaker 3: Government as well. Yeah, it's uh. I blame Psychs and
Speaker 3: Pico for dividing the Middle East the way they did.
Speaker 2: And you know.
Speaker 3: That the borders, the borders have never made any sense.
Speaker 3: Anybody's been out there knows that that it really is
Speaker 3: a collection of plans and other groups held together in
Speaker 3: some cases, as you already pointed out, by strong men.
Speaker 3: The only way they made it work but was by
Speaker 3: having dictators dominate things. And we've seen very few countries
Speaker 3: that have been able to in that area, that have
Speaker 3: been able to do anything without having a an assade
Speaker 3: or a uh, some other gangster guy in charge who
Speaker 3: won't you will tolerate no dissent it is. I mean
Speaker 3: maybe Lebanon back in the days, back back before the
Speaker 3: blow up, uh there it was, you know, it was
Speaker 3: kind of an interesting and wonderful country, but now it
Speaker 3: seems to be hesbal of playground to a certain extent.
Speaker 3: And we should probably talk about the fact that Hesbula's
Speaker 3: defeat by the Israelis opened up the the corridor.
Speaker 2: For these.
Speaker 3: This h HTS folks to come float down and take
Speaker 3: Damascus and get rid of a side.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and that's and that's been one of the
Speaker 2: really fascinating parts of this to me as well, as
Speaker 2: you know, there are all these people right now, and
Speaker 2: I mean myself included, as I've watched this over the
Speaker 2: last couple of days, who've said, how can this happen?
Speaker 2: How could it have happened so quickly? And and what
Speaker 2: I'm reminded of is how the SMGs in a rock,
Speaker 2: how they operate, and and they were it was really
Speaker 2: it was a fascinating constant because they operated so differently
Speaker 2: from the way the Coalition did, and also from the
Speaker 2: way that the rocket and security forces operated. The SMGs
Speaker 2: like kh they were they could move so quickly, they
Speaker 2: were so mobile and they had a level of, for
Speaker 2: lack of a better word, a level of audacity that
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of other units didn't have
Speaker 2: and just by shooting straight up the highways, going head
Speaker 2: on into it and going to fisticuffs. And it seems
Speaker 2: a lot to me, it seems a lot like HTS
Speaker 2: did the same thing. And it's funny too, because in
Speaker 2: the last day or so, one of the guys that
Speaker 2: I follow on Twitter and Blue Sky, James at Gravity's Rainbow.
Speaker 2: You know, he wrote this kind of snarky article about
Speaker 2: the sixth generation of warfare being highway centric, and you know,
Speaker 2: the points that he brought up were one hundred percent
Speaker 2: ballot that we have these you know, these tactical and
Speaker 2: operational thescussions about flanking maneuvers and you know, exploiting the
Speaker 2: enemy's critical vulnerability. But ultimately, what it always seems to
Speaker 2: come down to is people just barreling up a highway
Speaker 2: into the objective. And that is kind of it seems
Speaker 2: like that's kind of like what HTS did, and sirious,
Speaker 2: they just finally got the momentum, the conditions were right,
Speaker 2: and they just started going from population center to population center,
Speaker 2: and you know, the Syrian army wasn't prepared, the regime
Speaker 2: wasn't prepared, and they really exploited that scene. It's you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of I mean, it sounds kind of weird
Speaker 2: to say, but it's kind of admirable. But it's also
Speaker 2: kind of scary at the same time, because that's also
Speaker 2: largely how how Isis got its foothold in the rock.
Speaker 2: They just started driving and didn't stop until they were
Speaker 2: finally compelled to stop just short of Baghdad and Herbal.
Speaker 1: That's interesting and interesting point, and it's true. We've seen
Speaker 1: it over and over again. We've even seen it and
Speaker 1: in the Russia Ukrainian conflict where in the Dawn Bass
Speaker 1: a lot of these battles are over intersections. We even
Speaker 1: saw it in Syria. But before when things got really furry,
Speaker 1: when all this started around Damascus, it was almost the
Speaker 1: Battle of the clover Leafs. Where do you put your
Speaker 1: battalions on the intersections? On three ninety five around DC
Speaker 1: the same idea, and that has to do with movement,
Speaker 1: but it also has to do with the fact that
Speaker 1: that there's almost especially now with the Russians gone, there
Speaker 1: is hardly any air component up there. Besides the Turks
Speaker 1: and the Americans. So that does give the ground component
Speaker 1: perhaps a little more flexibility to do what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if a lot of this has to
Speaker 1: do with we still study a lot of the Napoleonic
Speaker 1: era US Civil War. We had a lot of open territory,
Speaker 1: though you did have the railroads in our Civil War
Speaker 1: that was an issue. And we also have our National
Speaker 1: Training Center, which is this wonderful, big open desert and
Speaker 1: we were able to play around with that, especially during
Speaker 1: the desert storm. But I want to putting on your
Speaker 1: your your kernel's hat. Are there things that we've been
Speaker 1: doing recently to better exercise I know we've done some
Speaker 1: urban training facilities, but are there some things that we
Speaker 1: can do to better better think about how to either
Speaker 1: operate or to attack. What does seem to be up
Speaker 1: creeping up more and more is what Dwight Eisenhower said
Speaker 1: was when he wanted to bring the Interstate Highway system
Speaker 1: to us. It was, you know, Germany started something there
Speaker 1: with the ability to move a lot of forces really fast.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's you know, going back to my time
Speaker 2: with Task Force Line. I mean that was the main
Speaker 2: supply routes, the MSRs that led that you Chris cut
Speaker 2: through a rock, and that led from where we were
Speaker 2: at Ala Sade all the way out to the border.
Speaker 2: Those were our lifeline, and as we started building our
Speaker 2: series of fire bases and outposts they led up to
Speaker 2: all time. They had to be resupplied and they had
Speaker 2: to be sustained, and the only way for us to
Speaker 2: do that was to bring in sustainment elements from the
Speaker 2: army and our own organic logistics to just move up
Speaker 2: and down those roads over and over again. And there
Speaker 2: was a significant force protection component that because we knew
Speaker 2: that the ISIS fighters and al Mbar they were not
Speaker 2: completely they weren't completely dissolved out of the battle space.
Speaker 2: And so every resupply, the convoy that went out, every
Speaker 2: sustainment convoy that went out, had to have a significant
Speaker 2: force protection component to it because it would become so
Speaker 2: vulnerable transporting all the fuel, all the ammunition, all the
Speaker 2: Class one, etc. And it's it, you know. So if
Speaker 2: we take that problem and then ignify it to the
Speaker 2: end degree about what our operational logistics lines look like
Speaker 2: in a place like say the Indo Pacific, it is
Speaker 2: like it's the very definition of a wicked problem. So
Speaker 2: I mean, I can, I will. I'll tell you that
Speaker 2: from from my experience with with the Task Force, one
Speaker 2: of the best things that we did, uh in that
Speaker 2: regard with with the logistics and the resupply was our
Speaker 2: We didn't just focus on the big blue arrows of
Speaker 2: of the operations and and the higher level things. We
Speaker 2: focused a lot on the individual capabilities of of the
Speaker 2: marines and the soldiers and their abilities to protect a
Speaker 2: logistics convoy and to defend themselves. And those were lessons
Speaker 2: that are learned over and over again. But we really
Speaker 2: drew on the lessons of what happened with the maintenance
Speaker 2: company in a rock in the in the opening week
Speaker 2: of the war two thousan three, when that army convoy,
Speaker 2: you know, full of soldiers who were unfortunately not trained
Speaker 2: to do anything except really drive trucks and they got
Speaker 2: ambushed in nazarea and it was it was a massacre.
Speaker 2: Those are the lessons that we pulled on so that
Speaker 2: by the time we had to do our own sustain
Speaker 2: and effort in western now Ambar, we felt very comfortable
Speaker 2: going outside the wire with these convoys that were a
Speaker 2: mixture of you know, US Army and coalition trucks, as
Speaker 2: well as multiple Iraqi contract trucks. We felt very comfortable
Speaker 2: going outside the wire with them and able to not
Speaker 2: just protect them, but to protect ourselves as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought one of the most interesting things I
Speaker 3: read today was it sent common announced that there had
Speaker 3: been seventy five attacks on ISIS air attacks on ISIS
Speaker 3: by I guess US Air Force assets. And I'm thinking, well, okay,
Speaker 3: why would you do that in the middle this? And
Speaker 3: then I'm thinking, well, who could be the big disruptor
Speaker 3: if they if they decided to act at the lines
Speaker 3: communication of this force, this HTS force, would I just
Speaker 3: be that problem area? And is this just an effort
Speaker 3: to what's the word I'm going to use to suppress
Speaker 3: their ability to do that?
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that, obviously, but I
Speaker 3: thought it was really interesting that they want to trouble
Speaker 3: to announce that and they And I also note that
Speaker 3: that one of the concerns about uh Slanny is that
Speaker 3: that he has a ten million dollar bonus on his head,
Speaker 3: and yet he's one of the few of these leaders
Speaker 3: who's still walking around without out swallowing some kind of missile.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting how much support he's actually gotten in
Speaker 3: the background and whether this attack on the ISIS forces
Speaker 3: was was part of that effort to.
Speaker 2: Kind of help him move along well, and that I
Speaker 2: think that's a great point you bring up about, you know,
Speaker 2: is what's ISI is potentially going to do in the
Speaker 2: middle of all this. If you look back to twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one and to withdrawal out of h Kaya and Kabble,
Speaker 2: you know what, the there was all the focus on, Okay,
Speaker 2: what what's the Taliban going to do? Is is the
Speaker 2: US and the coalition is evacuating the suicide bombing that
Speaker 2: killed so many people with someone from ISIS K it
Speaker 2: wasn't the Taliban as far as far as I recall.
Speaker 2: And that's that's that disrupting factor that that enemy like
Speaker 2: ISIS is able to employ. It is kind of they're
Speaker 2: they're not so polite reminder of we're still in here
Speaker 2: and we're still a player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there is so much going on back and
Speaker 1: forth here, it's it's really hard to keep track. For instance,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that have just become almost
Speaker 1: part of the geography and in the Middle East and
Speaker 1: in the Eastern Mediterranean that is no longer no longer there.
Speaker 1: For instance, earlier today, the Israeli Prime Minister in net Yahoo,
Speaker 1: he went up to Mount Herman and the Goal on Heights.
Speaker 1: He and part of a speech he mentioned there's been
Speaker 1: a separation of forces agreement that's been around almost as
Speaker 1: long as I've been that the Syrian Army simply abandoned,
Speaker 1: and he made the decision to go ahead and move
Speaker 1: Israeli forces into the former Syrian army positions so nobody
Speaker 1: else would slide in there. And so that whole understanding
Speaker 1: about the border, and I think what we saw in
Speaker 1: Lebanon as well, nobody is I don't think, is going
Speaker 1: to give the un assumption of any doubt when it
Speaker 1: comes to security here. So there's a big question mark
Speaker 1: in that volatile area. And then from what I've seen
Speaker 1: in open source, the Russians were pretty much given an
Speaker 1: offer they couldn't refuse to abandon their naval bases and
Speaker 1: Tartis and elsewhere on the coast, and they have been
Speaker 1: there for decades as well, which gave the Russians an
Speaker 1: influence in the Eastern Mediterranean from the Suez up to
Speaker 1: the Wall. First separate of what's going on in the
Speaker 1: Black Sea. So you have all these these areas that
Speaker 1: were static and assumed that are disappearing. And the one
Speaker 1: car that I keep waiting to get pulled is in
Speaker 1: the east, the Kurds in the Yazids going up to
Speaker 1: the river there that they've had a very bad experience
Speaker 1: in recent history and long history with sunny fundamentalists and
Speaker 1: how they treat people, regardless of what happens in Damascus,
Speaker 1: how you come to an arrangement after they've basically been
Speaker 1: running their own area to the east for a while.
Speaker 1: What are those things that you see as some trip
Speaker 1: wires that could make this unstable situation start to flame
Speaker 1: up with all against all again, because it seems to
Speaker 1: be that the regime has fallen and people are coming
Speaker 1: into place, but it's not all on all bloodbath kind
Speaker 1: of what we saw in Libya and that fell apart.
Speaker 1: Set you there.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that. I had my mute button on. That's
Speaker 2: a great question. I'm still trying to figure out the technology.
Speaker 2: You know. The first thing I think about is if
Speaker 2: Aa Sade is no longer there, if his government has fallen,
Speaker 2: and if one of the principle responsibilities of a government
Speaker 2: is providing essential services for the people. That if the
Speaker 2: Syrian government no longer exists and it can't provide those
Speaker 2: essential services, then things are going to get bad really quickly.
Speaker 2: That was one of the things that was one of
Speaker 2: our first concerns in twenty seventeen, as each urban center
Speaker 2: fell and the Iraqi security forces moved in and Isis withdrew,
Speaker 2: one of our first concerns was what is what's the
Speaker 2: local government going to do to get the water going again,
Speaker 2: to get the power back up, And if that doesn't happen,
Speaker 2: then people start getting upset really quickly. And you know,
Speaker 2: that's something that happened for sure. It happened in Afghanistan
Speaker 2: in the mid nineties in their civil war. Okay, great,
Speaker 2: the Taliban has taken over, but how long did it
Speaker 2: take them to really become an effective, quote governing organization
Speaker 2: that could provide the essential services and at least to
Speaker 2: the elements in Afghanistan where those things actually existed. Syria
Speaker 2: was I've never thought of Syria as like a backwater country.
Speaker 2: They have they have had a relatively modern government, relatively
Speaker 2: modern economy, and if all those things are now suddenly
Speaker 2: gone and it's just a bunch of different groups with
Speaker 2: different interests and it's this free for all of Hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to try to figure out how to get along.
Speaker 2: That will become that will get overcome very quickly by
Speaker 2: you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and that's the requirement
Speaker 2: for food, clothing, and shelter and not to not to
Speaker 2: feel like you're not gonna be able to survive, you know,
Speaker 2: another couple of days because you don't have what you
Speaker 2: need to actually live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting to raise that point because I have
Speaker 3: the feeling that the the Turks may take a hand
Speaker 3: in that, because they really want to be able to
Speaker 3: control that gained back part of what was the Ottoman
Speaker 3: Empire at some point, and they've had all these south
Speaker 3: pointed out early. They've got all these refugees sitting on
Speaker 3: their border. I can't imagine they wouldn't be more than
Speaker 3: willing to move the camps, the tents and all the
Speaker 3: other stuff those people are living in further south into
Speaker 3: uh into Syria, and you know, start providing some of
Speaker 3: those services you're talking about now. You know, it's a
Speaker 3: little hard to tell because Erguan is h He's theoretically
Speaker 3: an ally of ours, but you know, he's got his
Speaker 3: own agenda and he's much different than the Turkish government
Speaker 3: I remember from the times I lived there way back when,
Speaker 3: and it is a whole different model of wax. But
Speaker 3: you know, there is a port facility available that they
Speaker 3: can get stuff into the country if and if the
Speaker 3: Russians have gone out, and there was I've seen all
Speaker 3: kinds of contradictory stuff on that, by the way, that
Speaker 3: the Russians think they have an agreement with the incoming
Speaker 3: HTS to guard the Russian facilities, and then I've seen
Speaker 3: it otherwise that the Russians have bailed out and there
Speaker 3: are some Russian forces trapped behind the line somewhere. But
Speaker 3: I don't know what the status is on that well.
Speaker 2: And you know, i'll tell you what else concerns me
Speaker 2: in that regard to is Okay we talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: with no central government there and no governing body that
Speaker 2: can get the essential services turned back on, it can
Speaker 2: very quickly spiral into a massive humanitarian crisis, and which
Speaker 2: is really a it's going to be like a crisis
Speaker 2: on top of a crisis. Because I don't know if
Speaker 2: you all ever listen to Dan Carlin and his Hardcore
Speaker 2: History Hardcore History podcast, but one of the things he
Speaker 2: talks about in warfare is the idea of the double victim.
Speaker 2: You know, a person or a group of people who
Speaker 2: are already in a bad set of circumstances and then
Speaker 2: they have another terrible set of circumstances put on top
Speaker 2: of that. And I think that's what we risk happening
Speaker 2: in Syria, where there's been this ongoing civil war for
Speaker 2: years now. The place is a wreck, and now, you know,
Speaker 2: add the disruption of this on top of it, and
Speaker 2: it can very quickly turn into a humanitarian crisis, which
Speaker 2: then there will be there will be calls for international
Speaker 2: intervention and crisis response and disaster relief to go in
Speaker 2: there to to try to at least ameliorate the problem.
Speaker 2: And now we're in a whole other set of circumstances,
Speaker 2: because like you've brought up, it's not it's not going
Speaker 2: and just be HTS or HTS and isis. It's going
Speaker 2: to be all of these different groups backed by all
Speaker 2: of these different countries, each of which has its own
Speaker 2: particular interests and its own particular for lack of a
Speaker 2: better word, biases. It's going to make the operating environment
Speaker 2: and there incredibly complex. And you know, and I'll throw
Speaker 2: out a jab as well. I don't know that setting
Speaker 2: up a CJ lots. You know, they're at the at
Speaker 2: the port. It's going to do any good this time.
Speaker 2: So no, oh kah, that was that was a cheap shot,
Speaker 2: I admitted, but uh it was. But I live in
Speaker 2: this world, guys, Yeah it was. It was on target.
Speaker 1: Though. Is that the one thing you you mentioned a
Speaker 1: little bit that kept tapping me on the shoulder that
Speaker 1: I think, You know, we talk about people think about Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: and you think about South Sudan, you think about what's
Speaker 1: been going on in the sahell, but that's not Syria
Speaker 1: is not a third world country. First of all, you
Speaker 1: know Syria, Damascus, that's been a significant area of civilization
Speaker 1: since the recovery from the Late Bronze Age collapse. These
Speaker 1: are a people with a deep history and even in
Speaker 1: modern history, the post colonial Syrian Republic under the Assads,
Speaker 1: it had education, it had good infrastructure, not very effective military,
Speaker 1: but a modern military, and all the trappings of a
Speaker 1: developing country, if not anything else. Matter of fact, there
Speaker 1: was a few years Ago, a US Navy Islamic chaplain
Speaker 1: who got his degree from studying in Syria. So though
Speaker 1: he got in trouble and get MO, people can look
Speaker 1: it up if they want to. And the shame is
Speaker 1: is you can look at situations where countries like this
Speaker 1: have fallen into factional fighting. Who were advanced countries, you know,
Speaker 1: like when Yugoslavia fell apart again, that was a developing country,
Speaker 1: a little more developed in Syria, but not much more.
Speaker 1: And the international community at that point had the routine
Speaker 1: where everybody could you know, America will lead the way,
Speaker 1: but everybody else is going to contribute. You're all going
Speaker 1: to get your piece of territory and we're going to
Speaker 1: have a combined force go in there for etc. And
Speaker 1: so forth. But in the last quarter century thirty years there,
Speaker 1: because of the poor performance either an execution or outcome
Speaker 1: from those who were tasked and the international community to
Speaker 1: make those things that maybe brief well but didn't turn
Speaker 1: out too well happen. There's no appetite for that, especially
Speaker 1: in the US or anywhere else to do it. So
Speaker 1: ultimately this is going to be something the Syrians are
Speaker 1: going to have to find a way to work out
Speaker 1: amongst themselves. But again, like we talked about earlier, there
Speaker 1: are external forces that are that do have their players
Speaker 1: and their supporters. There's there's no I don't think any
Speaker 1: international solution because I think if anybody starts to talk
Speaker 1: that way at the UN or in Brussels or I know,
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen in DC. People just want
Speaker 1: to look at Libyan go. And your point is, so this, this,
Speaker 1: this is something that's going to be a test case,
Speaker 1: I think on what happens when you don't intervene like
Speaker 1: we did in Bosnia and we did in Afghanistan, stuff
Speaker 1: like that. The world's learned a lesson about that recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've learned a lesson. And I'm I'm not so sure.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I'm not so sure it's
Speaker 2: been a great lesson, But I don't know that any
Speaker 2: of the lessons that we've learned in the last you know,
Speaker 2: twenty or twenty five years have been great. But you
Speaker 2: know what, what one thing that I think that that
Speaker 2: we have to prepare ourselves for is, you know, if
Speaker 2: we assume that things are going to spiral there, at
Speaker 2: least for a while, are going to be kind of
Speaker 2: the the breathless calls, you know, within within our own
Speaker 2: country and probably throughout the international community, of what are
Speaker 2: we going to do to fix this? We'd have to
Speaker 2: do something. We have to go in there and do something.
Speaker 2: And like you said, you know, what are we going
Speaker 2: to do? Set up some sort of icaff style uh,
Speaker 2: you know, coalition to go in there and set up shop.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the un going to to go in uh,
Speaker 2: you know, say like they did in in Somalia. I
Speaker 2: don't know. Without without a without a clear cogent plan
Speaker 2: and a serious consideration of what the second and third
Speaker 2: order effects are going to be, it's just going to
Speaker 2: become a mess, just one more mess in the US
Speaker 2: sentcom and and everybody is going to be wringing their
Speaker 2: hands about it. And as much as I hate to
Speaker 2: say this, it's going to become one more distraction from
Speaker 2: what I think the real threat is and what you know,
Speaker 2: what the ball is that we need to keep our
Speaker 2: eyes on, and that that ball is not in uh
Speaker 2: in the Middle East. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was once upon a time I was involved in
Speaker 3: the civil affairs thing of Kosovo. I had no business
Speaker 3: being there doing that. But h cos you know, some
Speaker 3: of these things are easier. Kosovo was close enough to
Speaker 3: the rest of Europe that it wasn't that big a deal.
Speaker 3: They didn't get bombed all that much themselves. I mean,
Speaker 3: we bombed a lot of other places. But uh yeah,
Speaker 3: I I you know, how are you going to get
Speaker 3: the aid in, who's going to deliver, how you can
Speaker 3: to protect it? All that stuff. And we've got all
Speaker 3: these other things going on with the Russians and Ukraine
Speaker 3: and all the other messy tidbits of modern life. We've
Speaker 3: already we've already seen that the corrupt organizations like Hamas
Speaker 3: will steal the food that's meant to be given to
Speaker 3: the people so that they can claim they're giving it
Speaker 3: to the people or selling or whatever they're doing with it.
Speaker 3: And you just hate, hate to try and imagine how
Speaker 3: this would work. I think we're still dropping food to
Speaker 3: the Kurge if I'm not mistaken, in that north northeast
Speaker 3: corner of the country. Yeah, well, I'm having trouble with
Speaker 3: this stuff. But you'd think, you know, all the Arab
Speaker 3: countries would rush into help their buddies, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: You would think. I mean, you know, like again, I'm
Speaker 2: a snarky guy, I don't try to even hide it anymore.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think it was I think there
Speaker 2: was Donald Rumsfeld who said in two thousand and three, Hey,
Speaker 2: you know, freedom and democracy it's messy. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is. It's just that if we go in there
Speaker 2: with you know, all the power and strength and resources
Speaker 2: of the United States, whether it's alone or it's part
Speaker 2: of a coalition, I think everybody asked to understand the
Speaker 2: fact that we're not going to be welcomed as saviors.
Speaker 2: You know, We're not going to be welcomed as the
Speaker 2: people who came in and delivered them from all of this.
Speaker 2: What will likely happen is everybody will, at least after
Speaker 2: a while, everybody will look at us and say, yep,
Speaker 2: there's the US sticking its fingers again in a place
Speaker 2: where it doesn't belong, and it's just making the problem worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, part of me looks at the whole situation, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think everybody's in full understanding that the
Speaker 1: US is not going to fix this problem. I will
Speaker 1: just try to mitigate its second and third order effects.
Speaker 1: The Europeans have no desire nor any capability to affect
Speaker 1: anything there either, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if you want to go back, history winds up hitting
Speaker 1: the same roads again. Is you can you can see
Speaker 1: that the major players that are going to push the
Speaker 1: ball one way or another, it's going to be Turkey
Speaker 1: and Iran. Russia's got other concerns and she's bled white anyway.
Speaker 1: The Israelis, they're just going to find somebody who will
Speaker 1: help secure their border on the goal on and but really,
Speaker 1: I think I think the power player here for both
Speaker 1: proximity capability and demonstrated will to actually act is going
Speaker 1: to be the Turks, and uh not everybody there is
Speaker 1: a big fan of doing that part of if somebody
Speaker 1: asking me, you know what, what's your money on it?
Speaker 1: I think we sit back and see how much the
Speaker 1: Iranians can make the Turkish drive to make something useful
Speaker 1: out of their neighbor difficult. And that also is brought
Speaker 1: with all sorts of issues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, couldn't agree more. I'm going to be sitting here
Speaker 2: with my bucket of popcorn watching.
Speaker 3: I mean, it'd be the best thing to do.
Speaker 1: Seth.
Speaker 3: We're pretty much eating up this hour. We're in the
Speaker 3: first report stage of this, so it's things are so
Speaker 3: unclear and you hate to put down any bets at
Speaker 3: this stage, but let's talk about this book you've got
Speaker 3: coming out with the Naval Institute Press. Tell us about
Speaker 3: it and when we could expect to see it and
Speaker 3: where that people can pre order it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for that. So, yeah, you know, as we
Speaker 2: talked about I was, I was the commander for an
Speaker 2: advised and says task force in twenty seventeen and twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen in Iraq with the Iraqi Security Forces in Western
Speaker 2: Island Bar. Now you know, the team that I was
Speaker 2: with and the task force as a whole really just
Speaker 2: accomplished some amazing things in the short nine months that
Speaker 2: we were there. And as I have typically done whenever
Speaker 2: I've deployed with Marines, I kept the journal throughout the
Speaker 2: time that I was overseas, and not too long after
Speaker 2: I got back, I turned the I reviewed it and
Speaker 2: turned it into a book. That book is again called
Speaker 2: nothing here worth dying for. It's hard to say that
Speaker 2: the book is just about working with the Iraqis against ISIS.
Speaker 2: It's a book that it's a book about teamwork. It's
Speaker 2: a book about building a team. It's a book about
Speaker 2: being true not only to the people you work with
Speaker 2: but also being true to yourself. And it's a I
Speaker 2: really believed that it's kind of an underdog story because
Speaker 2: the team that I was with, not a whole lot
Speaker 2: was expected of us. We didn't have a whole lot
Speaker 2: of resources going into it, but we knew what the
Speaker 2: mission was, We believed in the mission, we believed in
Speaker 2: each other, and the relationships that we forged within our
Speaker 2: team but also with the Iraqis and our coalition partners
Speaker 2: really enabled us to do something that really hasn't been
Speaker 2: done in recent memory, and that was a small you know,
Speaker 2: Advised and Assist Task Force headquarters, you know, falling in
Speaker 2: on a DASK Force at its height was about twenty
Speaker 2: seven hundred people that included all of US uniform services
Speaker 2: and multiple coalition countries and really supporting the Rocky Army
Speaker 2: in its push across the western alandbar in the fall
Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen. It's a story that I put a
Speaker 2: lot of put a lot of work into, and I
Speaker 2: really believe in it because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I think, like my so the stuff that I've written,
Speaker 2: it's about the people that you work with and you know,
Speaker 2: the trust that you have to have with each other
Speaker 2: to get the job done in some of the more circumstances.
Speaker 1: Well, Setha. You know with all your books, they're just
Speaker 1: great reads. If people want to see recent history in
Speaker 1: a nonfiction way from the point of view of you
Speaker 1: and your Marines. It's a great thing. I highly recommend
Speaker 1: to everybody, and I look forward to opportunity when the
Speaker 1: book comes out, come on and we can dig into
Speaker 1: some of the details, because there's a great story there
Speaker 1: that's not just about what happened, but there's a lot
Speaker 1: there that reflects on a lot of the events that
Speaker 1: are happening right now and it can't happen down the road.
Speaker 1: But we really appreciate you taking an hour today to
Speaker 1: come visit with us on mid Rats.
Speaker 2: He had a blast. I appreciate the opportunity and I
Speaker 2: will certainly look forward to talking to you guys again
Speaker 2: real soon.
Speaker 3: It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: And thank you everybody for joining us for another edition
Speaker 1: of mid Rats. And until next time, I hope everybody
Speaker 1: has a great Navy Day and Marine Corps cheers.
Speaker 4: Molly need to replies, worry Paddy, Mike, my lonely one
Speaker 4: to marry me and to leave.
Speaker 5: A friend of becondily for you being to blame Mola
Speaker 5: fairly love me, silly faulding your name.
Speaker 6: It's a long way to differ, It's a long way.
Speaker 6: It's a long way to differ, Ny through the.
Speaker 7: Queen God b Becdi farewell, don't well.
Speaker 6: It's a long long way to Differay. But my life,
Speaker 6: my