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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peciniana Show.

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Carl dall is back here. You don't call.

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Speaker 2: Doing great Pete, Hail victory.

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Speaker 1: Hail victory. We are doing this, what about twelve hours

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after we found out that Donald Trump is going to

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be the forty seventh president of the United States. And yeah,

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I literally just woke up a little while ago, and

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I don't think you've select it all.

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Speaker 2: I'm exhausted, but it's good. A caffeine and a nice

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cocktail will keep me moving great.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, the episodes we've done on the Spanish

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Civil War before are going to be a little different

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than this one because in this and this is going

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to take more than one episode, we are going to

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go through the causes, the lead up, the war itself,

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and the aftermath, and we're going to do it all,

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you know, following you know, following an outline. So I

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think this is something that we can put together and

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will be a nice resource for people so that they can,

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you know, get a history on it and be able

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to tell people about an event that happened last century

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that is basically ninety eight percent of the people who

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talk about it are lying about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what just popped into my mind,

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Pete hyperlinks. We can make it a hyperlink document and

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we can just link to all kinds of sources that

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are all online. Because one of the key points is

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it's a very high level treatment. It's a bullet it's

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bullet points, any bullet point. There are scholars who've devoted

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their lives to individual bullet points to explain them. So

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we're going to go super high level. I really recommend

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the shows that Pete has done with Paul Fahrenheit talking

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about you know, Spanish Empire and all that. That's the

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level of deep dive you need to really understand. But

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we hope that this at least gets people started in

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comprehending kind of the scale of the scenario that we're

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talking about here, which is the history of Spain, how

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it led, you know, how that led to the Spanish

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Civil War, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So all right, so I'm going to start going through

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the document. I'll just start. You have a nice preface here,

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and then i'll start reading and you stop me when

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I mean, I'm sure i'll know the natural place to

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stop as i've read through this. Yeah, and yeah, we'll

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let you comment on it all right, awesome, This is

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the preface. What follows is the highest level disolation of

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detail possible for such a presentation. Almost every bullet point

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below could easily drive a lifetime of study. English language

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material and Spanish Civil War proper is very much lacking. Estimate,

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there are less than one hundred books in the subject,

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most of them obscure or focused upon a narrow subject.

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Almost all are long out of print quote unquote. Republicans

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rule the roost of the Spanish Academy, and the vast

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literature of the nationalist cries out to be translated. Starting

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Causes and Conditions of the Spanish Civil War, the causes

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and conditions which led to the Spanish Civil War. To

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understand them, we must know that between the years when

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the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the

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rise of the Sons of Arius, there was an age

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undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world

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like blue mantles beneath the sea. Did a poet write this?

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Speaker 2: Robert E.

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Speaker 1: Howard all right, First, both point social conditions relating to

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settlement patterns pre dating the Reconquista broadly tradition in northern

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Spain meant pre medieval right pace and privileges codified for

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all social classes per the Old Fueros. In southern Spain,

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the landless peasants saw little change in their circumstances under

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the Carthaginians, Romans, Moors, and Spanish. Many parts of Spain,

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particularly Andalusia, maintain large persistent bandit outlaw cultures developed during

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the Reconquista which never went away. This tendency fused with

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the radical ideologies of the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually a really important point because and think

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of this when you think about the kind of outlaw

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cultures that have developed in America, when you're thinking about

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our own situation, all of those little outlaw cultures, whether

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it's drug culture, hippie culture, you know, sub ethnic groups, etc.

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When things come in that are like ideological and lend

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a like intellectual bent to this like already radical and

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violent subculture, it gives it like legitimacy. And also in

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that culture then has a lot of influence and cachet

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with like the middle class who and you know, upper

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class and scholarly types and et cetera, for whom those

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ideologies resonate, so that drives like real radicalization and then

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you mix.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then when you have that kind of and

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I think we've talked about this before how one of

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Spain's main problems is is that it was always sort

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of decentralized with all the different provinces and they could

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be anonymous. And then you introduce a radical ideology in

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the nineteenth century, and that's when I mean you're basically

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throwing a match into a you know, throwing a match

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to a powder kick, absolutely right. Next bullet point the

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lack of investment in and development of Spain during the Empire. Comparison.

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English colonial model as seen in the America's Ignores India.

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Surplus population flows to the colonies to conquer and settle.

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Raw materials flowed from the colonies to the homeland, finished

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products from the homeland floats to the colonies and trading partners.

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Spanish colonial model exploration, conquest and settlement of territory with

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small populations of chartered foreigners i either genuine columbus or

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elite primarily Castilian Spanish nobles, following the same pattern as

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the Spanish reconquista.

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Speaker 2: And that's really important because when and This is kind

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of closer to you know, I mentioned that India model

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with the English Empire, the British Empire, that's basically parallel

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with the Spanish model. Is you actually have elites and

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you know, you have some other folks go out and

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conquer these terrors tories, but they create a new like

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cultural hierarchy there and then they exist there and it's

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about that place. So it's about developing that place with

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a tiny sliver of Spanish who remained Spanish.

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Speaker 1: Okay, exploration and conquest took place well into the eighteenth century.

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Speaker 2: Which was expensive, very expensive. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Incomenda Commission granted colonists to the right to contribute

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and force labor from the native population. The consulado they

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mer mercaderas mercaderas or merchant guild, monopolized trade goods in

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the Indies via the port of Seville later Cadiz until

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about seventeen sixty three. Silver flowed via the Spanish treasure

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fleet to the port, which paid for trade goods and Spain. However,

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most of the goods came from the rest of Europe,

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although eventually Catalonia came to dominate domestic production for the

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colonial trade so that yeah, got.

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Speaker 2: Vast treasure flowing in goes largely to the rest of

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the continent, other than the cut that like the Merchant

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Guild and you know, the Royal family get. So I'll

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let you follow up with specific numbers that put that

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into perspective.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have some statistics here. In fifteen twenty twenty three,

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years before the Merchant Guild was founded. In fifteen forty three,

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the total silver export of Spanish America was valued at

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around five hundred thousand paesos, with the royal family getting

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four hundred thousand pasos of the silver prophet. In fifteen

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ninety six, the peak year of silver production in Spanish America,

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the total silver export was valued at around seven million pesos,

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of which the royal family gained only one point five

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five hundred and fifty thousand, and the rest going to

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Casa de Contraction and the Consola Consolado.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so almost all the money, if you look at it,

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is flowing out of the country. And why you know,

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it's not only that merchant trade, but we'll start talking

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about the rest of it. So it wasn't that money,

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I mean that it was going to some development. There's

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a lot of you know, beautiful cathedrals and stuff that

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date from that time, but it wasn't not huge amounts

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of it were going to improve, you know, the infrastructure

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and you know, developing you know the country of Spain itself.

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It was this system that was kind of layered on

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top and staying and kind of flowing through in that

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direction rather than trickling down.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the next point is the huge cost maintaining a

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vast empire against incursions by European competitors. The Habsburg rulers

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of Spain fifteen oh six two oops, was at seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Oh I think it's like seventeen oh three or something

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like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, left domestic policy up to the established order in Spain.

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Isabella the First and fernand the Second's daughter Joanna, married Philip,

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the handsome son of Maximilian, the first Holy Roman Emperor.

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In fourteen ninety six, Philip became King of Castile jor

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how do you press it.

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Speaker 2: Juri Eusaurus, which is like proper like instead of it,

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you know, d jur. It's like de facto. But he

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was formally made king of Castile in fifteen oh six. Yep.

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Speaker 1: And there's no problem. I needed to pronounce, and their

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focus was war to drive the Ottoman Sarks out of Europe,

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War to maintain Habsburg control over the Roman Holy Roman Empire.

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War to defend the Roman Catholic Church against a Protestant Reformation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so most of their the the Habsburg tenure. There

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was massive upheaval taking place in Europe all through that period.

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You know, there was essentially a reconquista taking place against

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the Turks, and then just you know.

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Speaker 3: The the the the religious wars, you know, war constantly,

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and so that was also very expensive and required a

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big focus for the Habsburg rulers.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't worth the trouble to meddle too much in

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the affairs of Spain. There were lots of little uprisings,

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you know, when they came in because here these outsiders

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that are running things. They developed a kind of a

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buffer and let the nobles kind of keep things the

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way they were and doing things the way that they

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wanted to.

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Speaker 1: And then there was a broad split near universally atheist

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liberalism and traditional Catholicism, which festered into revolutionary atheistic anarchism

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and Marxism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really accelerated during the nineteenth century. If you Pete.

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You just put out a series of readings on the

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kind of a lot of the Marxist literature and Stalinist literature.

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I think people don't understand very well, like the degree

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to which Marx was commenting on what was taking place

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during the middle of the nineteenth century. And you know,

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in America we had our revolution kind of before this

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and established our country before this. But Europe was in

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massive upheaval. And if you look at the example of

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France and the Bloody Revolution, when you see the Republic

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of France, it's not a good thing. The Republic is

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horrific when it comes to how they handled the religious

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and traditionalists, not just the upper classes.

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Speaker 1: Just took us. We just got delayed by about two

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hundred years. Yeah, exactly, all right. Nineteenth century Spain hemorrhages

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its overseas colonies. Between eighteen ten and eighteen ninety eight,

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eighteen oh seven and eighteen fourteen, the Republic of France

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invade Spain to impose the revolution. Britain intercedes, resulting in

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a bloody war of all against all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see that in British You know, the British

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will acknowledge that they were basically engaging in atrocities because

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their supply lines were disrupted, so they would go into

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villages and take all the food and shoot anyone who resisted.

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You know, it was it was not a pleasant time.

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It was a very brutal war. But what that did

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was it gave all these little factions combat experience, and

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so as they assert themselves, it's very easy for them

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to go to guns.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen thirty three, the Old Secession switcheroo places Queen Isabella

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on the throne rather than Infante Carlos. Traditionalists support Carlos

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and his descendants, called hence the Carlosts, in three armed

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risings this century, the First Carlos War eighteen thirty three

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to eighteen forty, the Second Carlist War eighteen forty six

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to eighteen forty nine, and the Third Carlist War eighteen

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seventy two to eighteen seventy six, eighteen seventy three to

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eighteen seventy four, or the first Spanish Republic lasts eleven months,

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ends in a military coup, and then the Bourbon Restoration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they they went through this whole process kind

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of from a top down perspective, where the liberalizing influence

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was put into kind of a constitutional monarchy situation just

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to transition into liberalism. All the different uprisings and fights

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and everything meant that you had extreme push pull from

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the left and the right on the kind of you

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know monarchists, you know, constitutional liberal monarchists. It's stuck in

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the middle, all these different groups kind of trying to

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pull away and establish what they wanted. And then the

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Bourbon Restoration reappointed a non liberal royal and to kind

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of bring things back to normal, because that's literally what

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the people who are willing to fight wanted.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move up to the twentieth century. Spain

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maintains a large rural population while select industrial cities rapidly urbanize.

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Neutral Spain's economy both agricultural and industrial boom during World

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War One, the left fractures into disparate radical factions, with

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large swads of the urban working classes joining Marxists and

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anarchist labor unions.

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Speaker 2: And I'll point out, like p you're knowledgeable because you've

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read enough about it of the kind of nineteenth century

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anarchist movements, you know BA Cunan influenced people and all that.

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I feel like that's something we should do a dive

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into someday because I've been. I did a thread on

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x about this fairly recently, and it's it's actually really

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interesting because you see that a lot of the times

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that the the opinions on anarchism versus Marxism came down

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to people's impressions of like Bakunin and Marx themselves, like

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the man, and I think there's something really interesting there

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that that would be worth worth talking about. But when

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it really comes down to it, you see how they

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allie with one another during the lead up to the

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Spanish Civil War, but then it fractures because of the

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you know, a couple of distinct ideological differences, the main

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one being like the like international Bolshevik tendencies of the

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hardcore communists and the support that they get from the

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Soviet Union, whereas the kind of ideological purists who kind

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of want to do you know, socialism in one country

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or anarchism in one country. They want to get to

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the revolution, which to them is not war. Right, So

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just just a thought for future reference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna I was going to ask you,

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was there a specific reason in the nineteenth century you

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left out Giuseppe Finelli.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't get into the details. But Finelle's super interesting,

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especially because of the influence that he had the the anarchists.

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C and f AI is completely in the inheritors of

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Finelle and his and his uh you know, force of

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personality and his influence internally, again because of just the

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way it was so driven by individual personalities. But yeah,

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I think I think it would be great to dive

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into talking about some of those personalities sometime because of

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how telling it really is to look at that.

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Speaker 1: And one thing about Spain is no one ever hid

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what their beliefs were.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, that's actually a really interesting point. Yeah,

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they were very open about it, right.

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Speaker 1: Political instability, driven by street violence results in a coudeta

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led by Miguel Primo dere Vera in nineteen twenty three,

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with the approval of King Alfonso the thirteenth. The dictatorship collapses,

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the king abdicates, and the Second Spanish Republic is born

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in nineteen thirty one. From May tenth through May thirteenth,

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anarchists and communists burn down over one hundred religious buildings,

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including the primary Jesuit monastery in Madrid. Countless and valuable

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historical works have destroyed and many clergymen are killed. The Republic,

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headed by fervent anti Christians, refuses to intervene.

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Speaker 2: And that develops the pattern that we see that leads

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to the radicalization of the right, which is that the

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left goes nuts and then the supposedly like legitimate authority

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just sits back. And there's even there's even a quote

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I forget who said it. It may have been Azagna

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who said in the very early days that you know,

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not one of those people is worth the life of

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a single Republican.

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Speaker 1: The Republic imposes de jeri social revolution, nationalizing church properties,

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banning religious instruction and public processions, and instituting land seizures.

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In nineteen thirty two, there's some e Michael Jones talks

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about how a lot of the Protestant Reformation was about yes,

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getting church, stealing church property and stealing land, and.

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Speaker 2: The history in Britain is very interesting on that subject

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as well. Yeah, it's all all over the Protestant countries.

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That was done absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty two Carlos Forum, comm Communion, Traditional Lista and

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Requete Defense Militias.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have a party which is the face,

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the political face of the organization for electoral purposes and

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to mobilize people like legally above board, and then they

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have the the youth organizations and the radical militias who

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are preparing for war just like the IRA, like the

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Shinfean as the political front, and then you have the

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actual IRA behind them.

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Speaker 1: There was something else happening very similar to that in

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another country in Europe at the same time, very much so. Yeah,

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US nineteen thirty two, a bloodless military coup intended to

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reign in the excesses under the Republic headed by General Sanjuro.

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The san Houra san hour Haba fails. The conspirators are

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sentenced to death, though for most this is downgraded to

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imprisonment than exile.

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Speaker 2: And that was done because they didn't want to provoke

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the republic, did not want to provoke the right wing

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to violence or further political mobilization, I should add, which

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they failed at so conservative and reactionary elements. When the

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nineteen thirty three elections, which triggers mass left wing violence

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and church burnings. Yeah so they it's basically Antifa gets

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called out because they weren't able to do fraud. In

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twenty sixteen, they were totally taken aback by the actual turnout,

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their fraud faililled and so they chimped out.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty four, Stada's victory at the polls doesn't materialize

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into power due to suppression by moderate Republicans under Azagna,

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general strikes and an Asturian anarchist uprising, and at the

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wards to come, when thirty four priests, six seminarians and

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several businessmen and civil guardsmen are executed by the Revolutionary Committee,

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fifty eight religious buildings are destroyed, the rising of thirty

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thousand revolutionaries is snuffed out by General Franco on order

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of the Republic, at a total cost of up to

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two thousand lives.

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Speaker 2: And mass incarceration of prisoners. So in nineteen thirty six,

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when they talk about the the left opening up the prisons,

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it was supposedly because of you know, all the revolutionaries

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between now and nineteen thirty six that end up in there.

339
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A lot of them are just like psycho criminals. But

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they put something like ten thousand CNT people into prison alone.

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Speaker 1: The Stata youth movement flocks to the Carlists and Falong

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and phalongest militant organizations, and that's because the electoral party

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like they saw the failure of.

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Speaker 2: Electoral politics to do anything. They already understood what was

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going on, so they said, we're going to organize with

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the established militant organizations that are in our milieu.

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Speaker 1: Carlos commit most of their financial resources to arming and

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training the Rikitis. Jose Enrique Varella alias Don Pepe, transitions

349
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rakitis from ten men decurias, a local defensive structure, into

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a variation on the traditional Spanish infantry structure.

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Speaker 2: So the idea here is that you would have, you know,

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small groups of people that would organize, and so they

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would put them into this ten man it was a

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it was a Roman Roman kind of structure, and then

355
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they would have like individual officers that can contact them,

356
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meaning there aren't that many of them, but at this

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point there's so many people and they're getting so organized.

358
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They just start preparing them to be a separate basically

359
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a separate army that they can plug into army units

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that they control when the time is right, which comes

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very soon.

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Speaker 1: General Franco is exiled to the Canary Islands, while Jamiist

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General Mola is sent to Carlost heartland of backwater Nevada

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because the Republican government couldn't imagine right wing factional alliances.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Hymaeists were the.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, masked, but what ares.

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Speaker 2: So Himaeists were the They were just the royalists who

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supported the old king, King Alfonso the thirteenth in his line,

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which was like King Jaime. So they were called Hymaists.

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So if you go all the way back when there's

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that split with the Carlis and the others, they're still

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they're still following borbone line people. It's just the libtards

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couldn't imagine that these people could reconcile with one another

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because they were like, oh, well, they're these silly, like

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unsophisticated primitives who worry about the succession nonsense. So there's

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no way that they would come together because they hate

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each other.

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Speaker 1: Wrong. The militant anarchists of the CNTA FAI or is

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that fail fai fai. Yeah. Learning from the failure of

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00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,640
their improvised spontaneous uprisings as an estudius and developed the

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00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,519
cellular defense cadre structure, they begin organizing and preparing for revolution.

382
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By nineteen thirty six, one third of the CNT Union's

383
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:15,319
budget will be devoted to manufacture of the FAI bomb

384
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,680
hand grenade in Barcelona. We covered that in I think

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00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,880
in the last episode we did see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have an article about it out of

387
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my substack if people are interested in it.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty five, Flungay and Riquette leaders are sent to

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00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,519
Italy to train in light infantry tactics. The artificial governing

390
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,440
coalition under PM Leroue collapses in December nineteen thirty five.

391
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New elections are called for nineteen thirty six. Mass ballot

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00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,720
fraud and voter suppression results in a Popular Front victory.

393
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In the nineteen thirty six election, the Folingay is outlawed

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by the Republic. They go underground, though many leaders and

395
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:02,240
activists are rounded up by spring nineteen thirty six to

396
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:05,920
carlist Richts are a ten thousand strong, armed and trained

397
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citizen militia with twenty thousand auxiliaries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the thing to keep in mind there is that,

399
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:16,440
and I've mentioned this before, but of all the different

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00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,920
armed groups that the recittees were the only ones that

401
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:31,559
Spanish military professionals said were capable of actual infantry combat operations.

402
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,160
So they became they create became incredibly important for what

403
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:37,880
you're going to talk about next?

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00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:46,039
Speaker 1: The uprising. July seventeenth, nineteen thirty six, prominent Conservative parliamentarian

405
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:51,079
Jose Calvo Sotelo is arrested by Republican political police assault

406
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guards and executed July thirteenth, nineteen thirty six, after Stalinists

407
00:28:58,039 --> 00:29:09,200
parliament parliament woman parliament Woman Dolores announces while while he

408
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is at the podium in the courts, this is your

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last speech.

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Speaker 2: So he's he's let's say he's in Congress, he's a congressman,

411
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,480
he's giving a speech. Someone in the other party says,

412
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this is your last speech, and then they kill him

413
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,319
that night. Like, just think of how brazen that is.

414
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, July thirteenth. Something else happened on July.

415
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Speaker 2: Yes, interesting.

416
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Speaker 1: Well, you know it's funny, is if you go back,

417
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:44,799
if you look at September eleventh in history, it's remarkable

418
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how many things happen on.

419
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Speaker 2: History is so interesting that way.

420
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the Pinochet in Chile, they tried to assassinate,

421
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,000
they tried to fis asassinate Mussolini on September eleventh. There's

422
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,640
I mean, there's a bunch of you if you like

423
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,039
google September eleventh, like historical events. There's just a list

424
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:11,839
and you're like going back centuries.

425
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Speaker 2: It's like, I'll ask my son, he probably knows all

426
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:17,720
of them. Kid. Nine to eleven is like a joke

427
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:20,799
to Zoomers. At this point, it's crazy.

428
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: Falangay units begin assassinating prominent assault guards. A large portion

429
00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:31,759
of army officers coordinating in secret for many years rebel

430
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,480
across the country in the Canaries and Spanish Morocco, working

431
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:39,160
with Carlist and Foalangeay militias with a goal of conducting

432
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,480
a bloodless coup. How do you have a bloodless coup

433
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:44,880
against monsters?

434
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you can't obviously. Yeah.

435
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,799
Speaker 1: The rising is carried out by officers taking command of

436
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:57,240
military forces, arresting those who opposed them, securing their bases,

437
00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:01,799
and immediately consolidating control over territory. In many areas, such

438
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:08,200
as Navarre, Castile and Leone and northern Aragon, the civilian

439
00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:13,079
government is an alliance and the relatively few leftist political

440
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:19,240
agitators are immediately squashed Pew Pew. One odd case is

441
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:23,319
that of Oviedo, capital of Asturias, the location of key

442
00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:25,920
government arsenals as well as the center of the nineteen

443
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,559
thirty four are anarchist uprising and a bastion of revolutionary activity.

444
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,799
The town's garrison commander, Colonel Antonio Ronda Mata, was considered

445
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:41,119
by the nationalist conspirators as a freemason and Republican freemason

446
00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:46,319
also can also be a yes yeah for something else.

447
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,119
Speaker 2: Yes.

448
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: With the news of the uprising on July seventeenth, Ronda

449
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:55,240
declared to the civil government and leftist union leader leaders

450
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that he would remain loyal to the Republic and that

451
00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:02,519
the city was secure. Satisfied, four thousand militants departed to

452
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:07,200
spread the revolution, taking advantage of access to relatively vast munitions.

453
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,960
Ananda then secured the town and surrounding strategic positions with

454
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:15,680
his force Valangas and allied Civil Guard and Assault Guard forces,

455
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,119
and held out against a brutal siege until being relieved

456
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,559
by a relief column from Galicia. Republican forces cut off

457
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:28,200
power and water while shelling and bombing the city relentlessly, relentlessly,

458
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:33,039
causing civilian casualties far beyond those seen a Guernica. Yet

459
00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:36,960
there has never been a global propaganda campaign about Oviedo.

460
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,079
Speaker 2: And there's never been a global propaganda campaign because it

461
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,599
was a heroic stand by right wing forces against brutal

462
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,720
communists and anarchists, and global propaganda is only done on

463
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:57,160
behalf of brutal communists and anarchists. They did aerial bombing,

464
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,160
They just shelled the city indiscriminately. What ultimately happened is

465
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,519
a lot of people who were libtards ended up defending

466
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:10,880
the city and siding with the defenders of the city

467
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,599
because they were just being killed indiscriminately and their families were.

468
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: So is this the scenario laid out in the Last

469
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:23,640
Crusade where he calls in the bombing on his own location.

470
00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:33,039
Speaker 2: No, because they survive, Yeah, and thirty eight Actually, yeah, exactly.

471
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,240
The cool thing about it, though, is because the they

472
00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:45,559
secured the arsenals there, they immediately begin manufacturing like next

473
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:51,400
gen iterations of small arms for the for the nationalist

474
00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:54,559
army as soon as they get relieved.

475
00:33:56,559 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: The rising is successful in the most conservative parts of

476
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,720
Spain and in military strongholds, but is squashed in street

477
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:08,960
fighting and leftist strongholds such as Barcelona, Sanzather, Soalelo and Madrid.

478
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,079
The Spanish Civil War has begun. Coup leader General san Juro,

479
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,559
returning from exile in Portugal parishes in a plane crash.

480
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,119
July twentieth, Nationalists command to split between Franco in the

481
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,800
south and Mola in the north.

482
00:34:26,039 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: And an important thing to point out is that their

483
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:32,840
conspiracy theories about this that like Franco had this happen

484
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:39,320
because he was like Hitler to electric Bugaloo. But it's nonsense.

485
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:45,280
San Huro wanted to bring I might be confusing him

486
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,719
with the other guy who will be coming up, who

487
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,239
will pass away soon. But oh no, no, no, he

488
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,400
had tons of luggage and he was he was the

489
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,199
older coup leader who had envisioned the original coup. You know,

490
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,400
there had been the on Hurjada that had failed, and

491
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,599
so he overloaded a very small plane that crashed upon takeoff.

492
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:12,639
So this is in an era when aviation was very dangerous.

493
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:18,559
So it was you know, any people talking about, you know,

494
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:23,239
conspiracies related to Franco there, it's nonsense. It's just fortuitous

495
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:23,840
for Franco.

496
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think DeVore describes it as he was trying

497
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,440
to the plane was two weighted. They tried to off,

498
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,440
and they tried to clear a wall and it clipped

499
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,239
all and then boom.

500
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: And he was an older gentleman and the pilot survived,

501
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,880
but sun Hurro passed.

502
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: Away right Also on July twentieth, Spanish Legion forces landed

503
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,280
at Cadiz to reinforce the local Carlists and Folangaey militias

504
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,239
and secure the port city and much of the province

505
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,400
Navar Brigades and Carlos Fergettes Militia's Rakeette militias under the

506
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,719
command of General mola in the Norse fan out and

507
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,880
secure the French border to the east, establish a front

508
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,920
with Republican aligned Vasque country to the north and northwest,

509
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,079
and approach Madrid's northern flank in south central Aragon. They

510
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:17,960
stopped northbound. They stopped northbound cnt FAI anarchist.

511
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: Militias, and it's incredibly impressive how professional and squared away

512
00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:27,960
they were for being amateurs, for being an amateur militia.

513
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:31,199
But the important thing to keep in mind is that

514
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,599
they plugged into an existing military structure and military logistics,

515
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,719
so so it was a militia. They started out with

516
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,199
a lot of weapons that were secured internationally that weren't

517
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,920
necessarily like military standard. You recall when we looked at

518
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,400
the small arms, they had some very advanced stuff like

519
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:57,960
light machine guns from Switzerland and stuff. But they moved

520
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,519
very very quickly and fought very very well, even though

521
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,920
they weren't They weren't exactly using a lot of the

522
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,679
you know, as the newer volunteers were coming on. They

523
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:16,320
weren't using the most sophisticated, sophisticated tactics and stuff, but

524
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,920
it didn't matter. They were incredibly brave. And my position

525
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:24,480
is that the Upright like the war would have been

526
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:30,360
lost very likely if it wasn't for the Carlist Recutite militias.

527
00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:33,920
That's my position, based on how much territory they were

528
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,400
able to secure and hold.

529
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: Nationalists and Republican factions immediately cracked down upon internal enemies

530
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,639
in the areas they control. Thousands are killed due to

531
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,239
violence from all sides. In Navarre, for example, Carlos and

532
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:54,960
Phalangas arrests, subduing combat or simply assassinate, execute prominent opposition

533
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:59,440
and militant leftists. In Republican controlled areas, class enemies are

534
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:05,679
killed and huge numbers, whether extradicially or in combat. The

535
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,239
church is a primary target, with between one third and

536
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,920
one half of all church buildings in Spain destroyed. Many

537
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,679
dioceses see all or nearly or nearly all of their

538
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,000
buildings wipe from the face of the earth. By the

539
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:21,360
end of nineteen thirty six, nearly seven thousand priests, nuns, monks,

540
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,400
and seminarians are murdered, along with along with several more

541
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,079
thousand attendant lay people, along with many thousands more by

542
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:36,400
revolutionary Republicans. Most of the non combat extra judicial killings

543
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,519
are eventually reigned in by both sides by nineteen thirty six,

544
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,239
but the Republicans in particular continue the practice of executing

545
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,800
non combatant enemies with the illusions, with the illusion of trials.

546
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:58,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the when you look at the like Bevor

547
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,880
style numbers, and when I was working on this Pete,

548
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:05,679
I was thinking about the numbers. You'll remember I told

549
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,639
you I'm going to do a revision where I'm going

550
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:10,320
to talk more about the numbers instead of just like

551
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:18,000
the events. What you'll see is that the mainstream, the

552
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:24,760
mainstream position is that like the Republican you know, mass

553
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,599
killings were anomalous and it was out of the control

554
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:32,119
of the central government, whereas the nationalists did it because

555
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:37,119
they were bad guys, and it's just absurd and the

556
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:44,639
narrative about the Republican factions has changed multiple times. You know,

557
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,679
in since the war. There was a period, especially during

558
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,880
and immediately after the war, like late nineteen thirty seven

559
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,039
and on, where the nation excuse me, the Republicans were

560
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:05,599
blaming like the anarchists and and the like for excesses,

561
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:08,800
and that was because of the kind of the communist

562
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:15,480
directed propaganda campaign. And then later they shifted it to say, well,

563
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:19,360
the Soviet led communists were the bad guys, and like

564
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,599
the moderate Republicans and the anarchists were just kind of

565
00:40:23,639 --> 00:40:26,960
like this stuff was just happening, and like they never

566
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,880
they never would have wanted anything like this to happen.

567
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:33,679
When you look at the memoirs of the anarchists and such,

568
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,920
they they're so they act like, you know, they're innocent angels,

569
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:41,960
and and you know, this was all done by just

570
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,639
like people who were just criminals, so it was incidental.

571
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,920
But when the nationalists execute people who com med atrocities

572
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,519
for example, I'm not saying that there weren't excesses on

573
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:56,800
the nationalist side, like there was some There were executions

574
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,239
of people, for example, that supported the report public and

575
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,239
were harmless, where non combatants essentially that they just murdered

576
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,760
or you know, individual people murdered. It wasn't like the

577
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,440
leadership of the military was saying they should do this.

578
00:41:14,039 --> 00:41:18,760
But it's always it's mischaracterized. But when you actually look

579
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,159
at what the numbers are like, and when you look

580
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:25,519
at the they have essentially a truth and Reconciliation committee

581
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:31,159
that's underway now, and whenever they investigate these individual excesses,

582
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:38,079
they always find that the nationalists supposed atrocities of like

583
00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:42,159
a thousand end up being like thirteen people were killed

584
00:41:42,199 --> 00:41:45,559
and possibly it was a combat situation or something like that.

585
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,840
So those numbers get revised downward. But still, like Bevoar

586
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,280
fifteen years ago, I think he published his book maybe

587
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:59,199
a little more, yeah, yeah, fifteen eighteen years ago, the

588
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,119
numbers are really high on the national side and low

589
00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:05,519
on the Republican side. But now that they're investigating them,

590
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:09,679
they're kind of flip flopping. So it's it's just something

591
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:13,119
to keep in mind, and it's just classic. It's it's

592
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:16,440
what you would expect from what you know, anytime you

593
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:19,559
examine anything that the media talks about nowadays.

594
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, no, it's uh, I mean, really books

595
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,400
in English were only written from the from the Republican

596
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:32,239
side for exactly that those numbers got embedded into people's brains.

597
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,280
And then when you now they have excavations and all

598
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,840
sorts of things, and it's like, we're gonna we're gonna

599
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,800
find a thousand people in this pit. Oh there's nine people.

600
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And and so this is where when you

601
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,760
go back and you look at a lot of the

602
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,000
books that were written in the sixties with the cooperation

603
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:57,239
of the Spanish Academy, the numbers are lining up. The

604
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,639
new numbers are going back to those old numbers that

605
00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:06,360
were like Franco approved, because they're real. They're accurate, all right.

606
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: The factions, the nationalists represent themselves as true Spaniards, nationalists,

607
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:21,159
the defenders of Christian civilization against the Red Hordes. Territory

608
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,280
a large swath of northern Spain, the cities of Cordoba

609
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,039
and Seville, the city and a portion of the province

610
00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:32,039
of Cadiz, the Canary Islands, Spanish Morocco, and the Balearic

611
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:39,679
is that right Baleeric, Yeah, Balearic Islands, accepting Minorca and Formintera,

612
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,760
formerly government forces. Roughly half sixty thousand of the Spanish

613
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,840
Territorial Army, the Army of Africa, including the Spanish Legion

614
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,559
thirty five thousand and just under half of spain Civil

615
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:59,960
Guards and cab Carabineros approximately two thirds of the Spanish army.

616
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,800
These heavy weapons are in the hands of the Nationalists,

617
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:08,960
along with half of the rifles the Carlss Riquette Militias has.

618
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,599
The Carliss Rikatze Militia has approximately thirty thousand men under

619
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,760
arms at the uprising, going to eighty five thousand by

620
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,079
the end of nineteen thirty six. The Filungai Militia has

621
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,239
approximately twenty thousand men at the time of the uprising.

622
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: And the thing to keep in mind there is remember

623
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,519
when a civil war breaks out and people have to fight,

624
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:36,599
you attach yourself to the organizations that are existing. You

625
00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:39,920
can't join the army and go straight into combat, but

626
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,719
you can join the militias, especially if time is of

627
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,519
the essence exactly. The Republicans represent themselves to the world

628
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:53,360
as a legitimately elective government of Spain, championing freedom and

629
00:44:53,440 --> 00:45:00,199
progress against tyranny. Internal divisions are significant. Liberal socialist and

630
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,840
communists generally supported the Republican government, though immediate divisions appeared,

631
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,320
such as the debate regarding arming the workers militias. In

632
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,920
the very early days of the uprising, anarchists broadly sought

633
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,079
to form their own institutions separate from the Republican government,

634
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,599
and were most successful at this in Catalonia, and initially

635
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:25,920
focused upon the social revolution. The Basque country, strongly Catholic

636
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,679
and conservative, mostly sided with the Republic and the Republic

637
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,199
due to the promise of autonomy, although this coalition saw

638
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,840
a rapid schism.

639
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: Government forces. Roughly half sixty thousand of the Spanish Territorial

640
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,960
Army possessed one third of the machine guns and artillery,

641
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,559
plus half of the rifles from military armories. A bit

642
00:45:48,639 --> 00:45:53,280
over half of Spain's Carabineros and civil guards, along with

643
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,840
most of the Assault Guards, stay with the Republic.

644
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:58,599
Speaker 2: The Assault Guards were kind of like the equivalent of

645
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:05,199
the f like a FBI, but more like light infantry

646
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:11,519
oriented that were a rapid reaction force formed only at

647
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:14,199
the time of the actual republic, So the carbon Narrows

648
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:22,119
and civil Guards were existing law enforcement organizations across the country.

649
00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:26,400
It's very different than America because they have these national

650
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,559
forces that have very specific responsibilities. The Assault Guards were

651
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:36,719
like the rapid response units. And when you think FBI,

652
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,840
think like FBI at Mount Carmel, you know Waco, because

653
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:45,239
they had like heavy weaponry.

654
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: So the workers militias do not arise spontaneously, but rather

655
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,679
out of established party militias and are difficult to fully quantify,

656
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,280
say for certain well documented cases. For example, we know

657
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,440
from extensive material later published by members of the Highly

658
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,519
Prepared and Organized Anarchist CNTFAI that they put they put

659
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:11,119
ten thousand armed men into Barcelona within hours of the uprising,

660
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:14,880
though most of their weapons were handguns and surprisingly sophisticated

661
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:16,840
craft made grenades.

662
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they had been preparing in a very robust fashion,

663
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:28,199
whereas the other militias they were relying on this spontaneous uprising.

664
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,559
The CNTFAI, I have an article about them on my

665
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:37,679
sub stack, and their militias. They learned from the failure

666
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,199
of the nineteen thirty four Astorious uprising and the losses

667
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,960
that they took that there's no spontaneous uprising. I'll just

668
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,360
tell a story that's true, and this is more than

669
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,679
I've talked about in the past. But I was in

670
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,599
Seattle during the Wto riots in nineteen ninety nine protest

671
00:47:58,679 --> 00:48:07,440
slash riots the anarchists who caused the police to attack

672
00:48:08,039 --> 00:48:12,639
the protesters, because the anarchists came up from Eugene and

673
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,760
did a did a during the parade of like one

674
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,079
hundred thousand, like just regular people protesting the wto whether

675
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:25,639
they were environmentalists, whether they were leftists, whether they were

676
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:31,440
like American labor oriented people. They did a big u

677
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,280
around where the conference actually took took place and where

678
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:40,119
there were protesters with permits peacefully sitting there protesting, and

679
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:44,519
smashed windows in a big u. And one of them

680
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:48,760
told me when I was hollering at him with my

681
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,360
hand on a pistol in my pocket, because I was like, oh,

682
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:57,960
there's only about forty of them. I was young anyway,

683
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:03,719
the police didn't have rapid reaction squads. And I saw

684
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:08,400
police like looking and like radioing, and and one of

685
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,760
these older guys and they were all just like junkies

686
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,719
and shit said, well, well that our strategy is that

687
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,039
by doing this, we will uh get the police to

688
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,159
attack the innocent people, and then the people of the

689
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:27,920
country will rise up and then we will have an

690
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:28,960
anarchist revolution.

691
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: That that's the same thing. Yes, Don Reid went fre Moscow.

692
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,599
Ye promised Lenin what happened in the United States, and

693
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:41,079
the United States is just not fucking made.

694
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 2: For that, No, not at all. And and that was

695
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,400
what the that was what the communists and the anarchists

696
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,599
thought they could do. And every time they just got

697
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:52,719
their teeth kicked in after they murdered a bunch of

698
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:59,159
innocent people. And so they gave this a whirl and

699
00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:01,760
you know, and the end and the fai anarchists said,

700
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,400
this doesn't work. We have to actually plan. So they

701
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:11,119
were one of the few, like actually organized groups, and

702
00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:17,039
they were critical to the success of everything that the

703
00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:24,199
loyalist republic Republican troops and police and stuff around Madrid

704
00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:28,599
because again, if you'll remember, they sent Mola like out

705
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:32,719
into Navarre. They they made sure that only libtards were

706
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,880
around Madrid is whenever they could, so that the right

707
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,800
wing rising just completely failed in a bunch of areas

708
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,239
because the republic had been preparing for this. So when

709
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,880
the leftists, you know, needed to come out into the street,

710
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,679
they were just not ready and they were not trained

711
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:54,840
or anything like that.

712
00:50:57,159 --> 00:51:00,519
Speaker 1: All right, here we go the march on Madrid July

713
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:04,480
twenty one, nineteen thirty six to March nineteen thirty seven,

714
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,800
the rebel army secures German and Italian support to conduct

715
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,519
an airlift of infantry from Spanish Morocco to Seville in

716
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,760
southwestern Spain, avoiding a naval blockade by the mostly Republican

717
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,840
controlled navy. Representing the Nationalist faction, General Franco immediately engages

718
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,000
the international community for support, though most of the world

719
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:31,280
opts to remain neutral. July twenty sixth Nationalist secured German

720
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,159
commitment to provide their forces with transport aircraft, fighter bombers,

721
00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:39,079
anti aircraft guns, and other equipment. The first shipment arrives

722
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:43,320
August first, and there's a note here the condor legion,

723
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,719
the famed German volunteer quote unquote volunteer Force isn't formally

724
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:53,440
organized until November. The Italians go all in on supporting

725
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,280
the Nationalists and provide forty eight aircraft in the first month,

726
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,880
along with an increasing flow of small arms, company level weapons, vehicles, advisors, observers,

727
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:07,519
technical experts, and combat personnel. US and British companies provide

728
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:11,840
technically non military support to the Nationalists, which passes the

729
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,639
muster under the Future Neutrality Agreement. Texico, formerly the provider

730
00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:20,119
of oil to the Spanish government, shifts its supports of

731
00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:25,760
Franco furnished entirely on credit. Upon hearing news of the uprising, Ford,

732
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,320
Studebaker and General Motors supplied twelve thousand trucks, parts and

733
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,880
tires on credit to the Nationalists.

734
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:37,159
Speaker 2: And this is a very old entry, a very old

735
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:43,480
bullet point in that really dumb you know, Alex Jones

736
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,239
attached himself to all the government's run by secret Nazis.

737
00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:50,199
This is one of the first entries in that ledger

738
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:55,679
per the Libtards, which is that like, oh, America sided

739
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,079
with the fascisms, man, and it's like, you know, so

740
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,960
the truth is that they knew that this was they

741
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:08,519
were siding against the Bolsheviks. Period. It was as simple

742
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:08,800
as that.

743
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: And then what did they do a few years later?

744
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:19,760
All right, let's keep going. The republic secure as military

745
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,079
support and international volunteers from the Soviet Union and the

746
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,440
intermittent support of France. France transfers forty eight aircraft along

747
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,719
with trainers in some weaponry in July and August, despite

748
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,920
having agreed to the non intervention packed. This pattern always

749
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,639
downplayed by Republican apologists will continue throughout the war.

750
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: And I have to interject there. It's impossible to overstate

751
00:53:47,639 --> 00:53:50,760
how much people lie about the support that they got

752
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,599
from Bloom's socialist government in France. And yes, when you

753
00:53:54,639 --> 00:54:01,679
say Bloom Blum, yes, yeah, yes, there was essentially a

754
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:05,119
There was street fighting in France at the time between

755
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,239
traditionalists and a bunch of those folks ended up going

756
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,360
to Spain to fight with the nationalists as volunteers. They

757
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:20,039
ended up getting plugged into the Spanish legion in great numbers.

758
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:26,760
Spanish Catholic excuse me, French Catholics who were you know.

759
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:32,800
Later when Germany invaded France, they were more than happy

760
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,440
to basically hand this one third of the French population

761
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,360
essentially control of the government, the Vishy government. It was

762
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:47,079
not this like tiny sliver of French culture. It was

763
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:53,480
the French traditionalists who wanted that support that was handed

764
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:54,079
to them.

765
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: So Mexico provides a substantial amount of small arms and ammunition.

766
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,199
And I cannot talk enough and express enough to people

767
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:10,599
that at that time Mexico was an arm of the

768
00:55:10,599 --> 00:55:15,480
Soviet Union. Yes, yes, yes, yes, they had their own.

769
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: Like Viva Cristo Rey was a huge thing in Mexico

770
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:27,119
as well, because they the Mexican government. The forefathers of

771
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:34,000
the existing sole political party in Mexico were essentially Bolsheviks

772
00:55:34,119 --> 00:55:38,880
who were trying to eliminate Christianity from Mexico, and they.

773
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,639
Speaker 1: Put up with Trotsky living there for only so long. Yes. Yeah,

774
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:49,880
Spanish gold reserve transfers, this is so remarkable. I mean,

775
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:51,840
the first time I write about this, I was.

776
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:54,159
Speaker 2: It's appalling.

777
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: I mean I was mad. First transfer to Eurobank Paris

778
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,119
authorized by the Republic July twenty fourth, a total of

779
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:04,920
one hundred and seventy four tons twenty seven point four

780
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,480
percent of Spanish reserves sent through March nineteen thirty seven.

781
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:14,000
These funds are used for purchases of fuel and arms

782
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:17,159
from a variety of arms dealers from the Netherlands, Belgium,

783
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:23,239
Czechoslovakia and Poland. The Republic's Council of Ministers authorized a

784
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,760
transfer of remaining gold and silver reserves five hundred tons

785
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:34,199
to Moscow September thirteenth, nineteen thirty six. The original excuse

786
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,679
was that per Minister of Finance Juan Nagrin, it would

787
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,880
be secure there, although the Soviets claimed it in payment

788
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,760
for arms. I think anyone who knows and has read

789
00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:50,800
deep enough knows that Stalin was laughing at them.

790
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: You know, the leads. The anarchist memoirs on this topic

791
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:00,800
are incredibly interesting because they were furious. Because this is

792
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,320
the point. I mean, look October, we're talking September, October

793
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:11,480
nineteen thirty six. The anarchist you know, collective government whatever

794
00:57:11,519 --> 00:57:14,559
you want to call it, you know, in Catalonia is like,

795
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:20,440
what the fuck is happening? Because they realize what is

796
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,360
taking place in their country. They realize that it's a

797
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:30,000
Bolshevik takeover, because there's even stories about the CNT guys

798
00:57:30,519 --> 00:57:36,519
planning to capture the gold reserves and then holding them

799
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,480
in Catalonia so that they can actually pay for things

800
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,960
that the country needs. Yeh.

801
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:50,159
Speaker 1: October fourteen, nineteen thirty six, the first International Brigade trainees

802
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:56,360
organized by the Communist International arrive in Alba set via France.

803
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,599
The first shipment of arms from the Soviet Union reaches

804
00:57:59,639 --> 00:58:04,639
Kartze October fourth. It includes both modern and obsolete small

805
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,440
arms and ammunition, mostly most meaningfully, the latest T twenty

806
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,679
six tanks, BT three armored cars and quote unquote volunteers.

807
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of like if you'll remember from

808
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:21,840
our small Arms of the Spanish Civil War episode, there's

809
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,320
a lot of obsolete like World War One in pre

810
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,760
World War one small arms and like odd stuff. But

811
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,360
there's tons of maximum machine guns. And then in the

812
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,880
T twenty six is and the BT three's they had

813
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:41,159
their fully outfitted with what are what are they?

814
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: Is it the.

815
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:50,199
Speaker 2: TP twenty eight light machine guns, the the pan fed ones.

816
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,119
I know I'm getting those. It's DASH twenty eight whatever

817
00:58:54,119 --> 00:58:57,400
it is. So there's actually a fair amount of like sophisticated,

818
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,239
brand new stuff, and they start also bringing anti tank

819
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:07,519
guns over but that but again, like they took every

820
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:09,840
bit of their gold and silver reserves that were left,

821
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,800
like three quarters of it, and they were absolutely not

822
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:19,639
delivering that level of material to them. You know, they

823
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:20,960
certainly overpaid.

824
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's clear when you study it that

825
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,159
what Germany and Italy were providing to the nationalists was

826
00:59:29,239 --> 00:59:33,440
far superior, as far as far superior, yes, and then

827
00:59:34,039 --> 00:59:38,400
well what would you expect the Republican pesetas value collapses

828
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:44,440
almost immediately September twenty eighth, Alfonso Carlos, eighty seven year

829
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,880
old Carlist leader and claimant to the throne of Spain

830
00:59:47,199 --> 00:59:52,880
dies in Austria with no air. October, the republic somewhat

831
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,440
moderate government under Asagna quits and hands the reins to

832
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:02,679
a communist socialist coalition under Lago Kabao. The Kabayedo government

833
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,920
implements universal conscription of all Spanish males between twenty and

834
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:11,199
forty five in the territory they control. Sounds like you Korean.

835
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,199
The various party militias begin to be integrated into the

836
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:20,440
Republican Army command structure, which is primarily controlled by the communists.

837
01:00:21,079 --> 01:00:24,480
Communists red stars are incorporated into the rank insignia, and

838
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:28,159
political commissars were installed at the company level and up.

839
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:34,159
Speaker 2: Which also means that the UH the other parties, the

840
01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:39,320
other political parties are essentially suppressed in the formal government,

841
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:46,360
including assassination of upity people like it's completely counter to

842
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,679
the supposed goal, which is to have as many people

843
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:53,519
as possible fighting against their enemies. But it's communists, that's

844
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:53,920
what they do.

845
01:00:56,079 --> 01:01:01,239
Speaker 1: The previously autonomous anarchist CNFAI chooses to put the revolution

846
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,760
on hold and submit to Republican Army in the field.

847
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually the crazy thing is that the the

848
01:01:13,559 --> 01:01:17,199
Druti column which are the hard core Well we'll talk

849
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:18,119
about it in a second.

850
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: Hard whenever anybody wants to talk about how oh like

851
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:31,679
Kamala Harris or like Antifa or communists, I'm sorry, yeah,

852
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:35,079
go back, go back and try to compare them to

853
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:35,920
some of these people.

854
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:40,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, the most hardcore anarchist killers, which was the Druti

855
01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:44,760
column that had been heading into Oregon and got stopped

856
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:51,000
by the Carlists, were the very first to submit to

857
01:01:51,079 --> 01:01:53,760
the National Army because they said, this is what we

858
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,960
have to do. And to be honest, they were they

859
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:01,199
were right because you know, from their perspective, not morally right.

860
01:02:01,559 --> 01:02:04,280
They deserved everything that they got. De Ruti was killed

861
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,440
very soon after, but they they were correct in that,

862
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,079
like they needed to focus on fighting the war. But

863
01:02:12,239 --> 01:02:17,679
the war was not prosecuted sensibly by the communists. So haha,

864
01:02:17,719 --> 01:02:18,519
that's what they get.

865
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,639
Speaker 1: Nationalist forces race toward. Yeah, it's so funny, you know,

866
01:02:23,719 --> 01:02:28,360
the communists and the anarchists, these you know, they've this

867
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:32,559
stupid religion people with their friggin mythology and everything. These

868
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:36,320
dumb people, really fucking how smart did they ever prove

869
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:37,039
themselves to be?

870
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:42,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to say something Pete. The word libertarian is

871
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:51,239
a Spanish word. Uh. It represents the non Bolshevik oriented

872
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:59,159
anarchists in Spain. Do not call yourself that if you

873
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,440
read this history, or you will not want to call

874
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,480
yourself that when you read what these people actually were.

875
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,840
If you do, and you and you study it, and

876
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,400
you continue to call yourself that, you deserve what's coming

877
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,960
to you, which is to be thrown into a very

878
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:17,559
large hole with a big pile of people just like

879
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:18,360
you in it.

880
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: The oh, I just wanted to warn people. Bevore's Battle

881
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,880
Battle for Spain is a great book for facts. Yeah,

882
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,519
the death tolls. We've already talked about Earl, you know,

883
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:41,599
but know this if you're going in Bevre is his

884
01:03:41,639 --> 01:03:43,519
sympathies lie with the libertarians.

885
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: Uh. You know, Pete, I've seen a bunch of interviews

886
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,000
with him. I did some. I did a thread on it.

887
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,440
My my interpretation is that his capability in Spanish is

888
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,079
about what mine is, which is not very good. You

889
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:02,880
can read it, you can prepare a statement and pronounce

890
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:07,159
things almost entirely correctly if you're reading it and reciting it,

891
01:04:07,719 --> 01:04:09,880
and you can interact like in a day to day

892
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,119
basis but he was very dependent upon the Spanish academy

893
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:18,119
and his editors to hand him all the material, and

894
01:04:18,639 --> 01:04:24,079
in nineteen nineties and two thousands, Spain like that's who

895
01:04:24,199 --> 01:04:28,320
ruled the roost. I mean, I'm sure like looking at him,

896
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:32,760
he's English, he like he cares a lot about Ukraine.

897
01:04:33,159 --> 01:04:36,719
So he's a fucking libtard. I'm not having any more

898
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:40,039
to drink. Pepe. I will try to rein in the profanity,

899
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:45,079
but it enrages me because you're I'm trying to counter

900
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:49,119
your point, but I can't. That's where his because because

901
01:04:49,119 --> 01:04:51,920
what is it? Oh well, we know communism is bad,

902
01:04:52,559 --> 01:04:54,599
and so now what do we do, Oh well, let's

903
01:04:54,639 --> 01:04:59,679
align with this group. But it's imaginary. It's a completely imaginary.

904
01:04:59,679 --> 01:05:02,800
It's like, you know, there's choose your own Holocaust where

905
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,760
people create their own Holocaust, like you know, hypotheticals and stuff,

906
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:10,800
and it's like, no, you don't get to do that.

907
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:16,159
You get to go based on the you know, the

908
01:05:16,239 --> 01:05:21,079
formal official Holocaust definition, and you either agree with it

909
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,639
or you disagree with it. You either say that's factual

910
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,760
or not. That's the same thing with this situation, and

911
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,079
it's choose. It's choose your own Spanish civil war. And

912
01:05:31,079 --> 01:05:35,840
that's what Bivore does. And he doesn't I wouldn't say

913
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,880
he does it explicitly. He's not making anything up, but

914
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,480
he does it like in like a sympathe sympathizing fashion

915
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:48,960
where he's like choosing a theoretical where he's like, if

916
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:51,599
only this had happened, these would be the good guys.

917
01:05:52,119 --> 01:05:56,159
But that's not how it happened. So I I that

918
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:00,519
was me looping back around to and ultimately agree with you.

919
01:06:00,519 --> 01:06:03,800
You're you're correct, he's but it's choose your own Spanish

920
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:04,360
civil war.

921
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:10,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I he could never choose the nationalist side,

922
01:06:10,599 --> 01:06:13,920
so he tries to pick the least, the least worst

923
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:21,199
of the of the libtards. Yeah, all right. Nationalist forces

924
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,199
race toward Madrid with a goal of toppling the Republican

925
01:06:24,239 --> 01:06:28,360
government and ending the war quickly. Soviet forces, the International

926
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,599
Brigades and the cnt fai's six thousand mand Rudy Column

927
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,320
speed toward Madrid to intercept them. After securing Tale Though,

928
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,920
now maybe we can talk about this before we talk

929
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:42,840
about the Alcazar.

930
01:06:43,239 --> 01:06:43,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

931
01:06:43,639 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: A lot of people make the argument that by choosing

932
01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:51,519
to go and help them at the Alcazar until they

933
01:06:51,519 --> 01:06:54,519
though that if they would have went directly to Madrid,

934
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,880
they could have saved the battle for the Battle for Madrid.

935
01:06:58,039 --> 01:07:03,639
Speaker 2: It wouldn't have happened. I don't buy it. The the

936
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,440
other thing, too, is that they were they were moving

937
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:10,519
so rapidly that they had to periodically stop and consolidate

938
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:17,360
and get reinforcements. They they hook up farther north with

939
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:22,000
the Carlists and everything. I I it's a it's a

940
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:26,159
it's kind of a valid argument that I suspect, you know,

941
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,840
that just doesn't play out because what would have happened

942
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,840
is they would have been stuck in urban combat when

943
01:07:34,599 --> 01:07:39,320
the Soviet forces, the International Brigades and the Drudi column arrived,

944
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,519
which would have been I mean, it would have been

945
01:07:42,519 --> 01:07:44,880
a meat grinder and they could have lost all of

946
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,039
their forces that were there. I just I just don't

947
01:07:48,039 --> 01:07:50,480
buy it when you when you look at it in

948
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:53,920
terms of like the manpower involved, the equipment, the different

949
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,480
units that that are maneuvering around it, it's like a

950
01:07:57,559 --> 01:08:01,559
criticism that comes from people who are like, well, you

951
01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:04,840
would have gotten there before all these other people, and

952
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,639
it's like yeah, but then they just would have had

953
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:12,920
a bloodier, bloodier combat there and very easily have been

954
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:17,319
cut off, which is worse than not getting there. Right,

955
01:08:18,239 --> 01:08:22,000
I just don't I just don't see it. You know,

956
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,520
at very best, maybe they could have taken Madrid, but

957
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:31,239
they wouldn't have captured the enemy leadership, because it's urban combat.

958
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:36,279
Urban combat is not fast. It's it's it's the opposite

959
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:39,399
of fast, and they found that out when they got there.

960
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,600
They couldn't even get through a college fucking campus in

961
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,000
a couple of weeks, like it just grounds to a halt.

962
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:50,000
So I just I just don't buy it. It's it's

963
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,880
something that people say, but when you actually step back,

964
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:57,199
you're like, this is just an accusation that's being repeated.

965
01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 1: So so, Ledo is about forty five miles southwest ish of.

966
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 2: Madrid, Yeah, seventy two kilometers. It's when you look at

967
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,399
the actual terrain, there's a huge Madrid is in a

968
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,920
huge at the north end of a huge valley bordered

969
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,960
to the you know, almost like in an archway around

970
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:29,560
it of mountain ranges, and and Toledo is due south

971
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:34,560
in a little southwest and it's kind of hilly around

972
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,800
it too. So that it's not fully in that in

973
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:42,840
that plain, but it's real close to it, and so

974
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,800
it's really easy to say that. But there was still

975
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,319
grinding combat before they could even get to that plane.

976
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:53,720
And then they got to that plane and those other

977
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,960
units had arrived, so they had to fight their way

978
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,479
through that and it was not easy. So and people

979
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:05,359
do this. It's it's a it's an easy thing to say.

980
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,840
It's an easy thing to say if they had bypassed

981
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:10,800
to Laedo, but I just don't see how you bypassed

982
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,199
to Laedo. I just don't see it.

983
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, then you have enemy at your back and.

984
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 2: Oh, exactly like a lot. So it would be really

985
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,800
easy for them to cut their lines. And this became

986
01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:30,479
the successful strategy, which is you you go in these

987
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:36,960
less guarded directions and then you grind up these smaller units.

988
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:43,680
That's that was the successful nationalist strategy, and that they

989
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,359
they did that there and then they tried for a

990
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,520
knockout blow on Madrid and failed at it.

991
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:55,159
Speaker 1: Sorry no, yeah, and just want to let people know

992
01:10:55,239 --> 01:10:58,520
if they you can go and google pictures of the

993
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,399
Alcazar and they're some amazing pictures of the destruction that

994
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,239
was done and you just have to wonder how they survived.

995
01:11:06,319 --> 01:11:09,720
So let me read this. After securing so the i

996
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,319
O forty five miles seventy two kilometers from Madrid and

997
01:11:13,359 --> 01:11:17,359
rescuing the besieged heroes of the Alcazar, on September twenty eighth,

998
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,119
the advancing Nationalist forces split into three prongs to encircle

999
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:26,720
Madrid and established ties with territory secured by Allied forces.

1000
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:31,600
For more on the battle of the Siege of the Alcazar,

1001
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:36,079
listen to my reading of the Last Crusade. If you

1002
01:11:36,119 --> 01:11:39,279
can make it through that without crying, you're a better

1003
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:39,800
man than me.

1004
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 2: That's the episode we did together, and it's well, that

1005
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,600
was only one of them. That was the successful end

1006
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,720
of it, But yeah, the whole Listen to the whole thing.

1007
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,520
That's like the soul, the soul of the Spanish Civil War.

1008
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,840
In my opinion, the Last Crusade explains the soul and

1009
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,000
the spirit of the Spanish Civil War.

1010
01:12:02,359 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: They advanced around October. The first aerial bombardment of Madrid

1011
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,600
takes place October twenty third. On October twenty eighth, fifteen

1012
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,680
t twenty six tanks engaged in the first Soviet combat

1013
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:16,319
operation of the war, spearheading a mixed brigade commanded by

1014
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:22,720
Russian train general. Lister sometimes look up all of the

1015
01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:29,479
Russian officers that were sent to help in the Spanish

1016
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,720
Civil War and do an early life check on them. Yes,

1017
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:39,079
the unit attacks. The unit attacks Nationalists held Sesenya, twenty

1018
01:12:39,079 --> 01:12:43,079
five miles forty kilometers due south of central Madrid. The

1019
01:12:43,119 --> 01:12:46,960
tankers equit themselves well but outrun their infantry, and three

1020
01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:50,359
tanks are knocked out with petrol bottle bombs prepared by

1021
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:53,720
nationalist defenders, the first documented use of what is later

1022
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,399
dubbed by the Finns as the Malotov cocktail for Stalin's

1023
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:02,279
Minister of Foreign Affairs. The engagement establishes that armor is

1024
01:13:02,359 --> 01:13:06,960
vulnerable in urban fighting as well as to traditional artillery.

1025
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,720
The tanks, armored cars, and Soviet and French aircraft flowing

1026
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,920
into Madrid slow the rush of the Nationalists and end

1027
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:15,479
their ownership of the skies.

1028
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I really want to emphasize French aircraft again.

1029
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:27,800
Bevar also everyone, Oh, you know, the pro republic position is, oh,

1030
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,239
the French could have done more, and they were just

1031
01:13:30,319 --> 01:13:34,399
like they were, you know, they were siding with this ridiculous,

1032
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:41,760
like capitalist bourgeois you know, neutrality thing. It's like, No,

1033
01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:45,760
the French gave them tons of weapons, but a lot

1034
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,239
of it was that they were obsolete. And if you

1035
01:13:48,279 --> 01:13:51,439
don't the thing to keep in mind is that an

1036
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:55,119
aircraft made in nineteen twenty seven was obsolete by nineteen

1037
01:13:55,199 --> 01:13:58,960
thirty six compared to the latest stuff because technology was

1038
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:02,039
advancing so quick, so it could be useful, but it

1039
01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:05,439
was not. It was, you know, not very good. It

1040
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,520
was you know, they didn't last very long. Maintenance was

1041
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:13,159
a nightmare. Their capabilities were really poor. But the French

1042
01:14:13,359 --> 01:14:18,119
poured tons of equipment into there, and the Soviet and

1043
01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:23,279
French aircraft were dog fighting over Madrid, you know, in

1044
01:14:23,359 --> 01:14:29,119
October November nineteen thirty six, and so they did slow

1045
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:34,000
them down there. But my position, you know, per our

1046
01:14:34,039 --> 01:14:36,920
earlier conversation, is that I don't think they would have

1047
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,520
been able to if they ignored Toledo. It would have

1048
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,800
only gained them like a day or two, and it

1049
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:48,920
wouldn't have it wouldn't have given them, you know, any

1050
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:54,119
further impetus to do anything, to accomplish anything. Once they hit.

1051
01:14:54,039 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 1: Madrid, nationalist forces began their assaults on the city of

1052
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,319
Madrid proper November fifth, with probing attacks through the old

1053
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:05,399
royal hunting ground of Casa de Campo to the west.

1054
01:15:06,079 --> 01:15:09,920
On November sixth, the Republican government flees to their new capital, Valencia.

1055
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,960
Nationalist forces delay their attack until November eighth. On November seven,

1056
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,359
militia forces find the battle plan for the following day

1057
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:20,960
in the pocket of a captain killed in Casa de Campo.

1058
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:25,439
Forces are redistributed accordingly, just in time for the arrival

1059
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,159
of the eleventh International Brigade, who rushed to the front

1060
01:15:29,279 --> 01:15:32,840
and help hold the city while taking fifty percent casualties.

1061
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,159
Is that less enter or is that roughly about?

1062
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:36,680
Speaker 2: Roughly?

1063
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, more International Brigade units arrive in the next few

1064
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:44,000
days and enable Republican forces to turn the battle from

1065
01:15:44,039 --> 01:15:47,039
Madrid into a twenty eight month siege.

1066
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so yeah, these units just arrived at this point,

1067
01:15:53,239 --> 01:15:59,479
but there's no indication that the militias and military and

1068
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,079
because they're there were tanks on the ground there there

1069
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:07,640
were like half of the tanks that the that the

1070
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:12,119
republic had were in were around Madrid, and that there

1071
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:14,800
were only like one or two in Barcelona, one or

1072
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,840
two in Valencia, Like most of them were around Madrid

1073
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:22,800
by the time, you know, a week's before the nationalists

1074
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:28,279
would have gotten there. So, yeah, the the International Brigade

1075
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:32,520
is celebrated for keeping them out of the city. But

1076
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:34,920
I just don't I just don't buy it when you

1077
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,359
look at what urban warfare is actually like, it's not

1078
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,319
a fast process.

1079
01:16:41,239 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: All Right, we got a little more here and then

1080
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,840
we're gonna we're gonna break for part perfect break part one.

1081
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:49,600
All right. A note on the makeup of the International Brigades.

1082
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:53,840
The International Brigades were organized by the Communist International, also

1083
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,840
known as Commontern. While membership was international, the Commontern was

1084
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:00,479
an organ of the Soviet Union under Soviet command in

1085
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:04,960
the interests of Soviet strategic purposes. The estimated size of

1086
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,359
the force varies, with Wikipedia stating from forty thousand to

1087
01:17:08,399 --> 01:17:16,279
fifty nine thousand. The more authoritative estimates calculated by ib veterans. Yeah,

1088
01:17:16,319 --> 01:17:20,920
ib SO International Brigade International Brigade veteran organizations are in

1089
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:25,239
the thirty to forty five thousand range. Purportedly, there were

1090
01:17:25,279 --> 01:17:29,039
never more than fourteen thousand International Brigade volunteers in Spain

1091
01:17:29,199 --> 01:17:30,239
at any given time.

1092
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's where that the number calculation comes from,

1093
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:39,680
in where the complicating factor is. But I think that,

1094
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:46,079
you know, the veteran organizations were very organized and there

1095
01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:49,680
were good records, and there were also Soviet archival records

1096
01:17:50,119 --> 01:17:53,000
and stuff, so I think their numbers are better. It's

1097
01:17:53,119 --> 01:17:57,600
not as many as like the Wikipedia figure states. It's

1098
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,920
theoretically possible that all a lot of the volunteer for

1099
01:18:02,079 --> 01:18:07,760
international volunteer forces are being inflated by numbers of people

1100
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:13,840
who came through like the uh what was the oh

1101
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:18,439
gosh that the People's Olympiad that was in Barcelona at

1102
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,359
the same time as the as the uprising, where there

1103
01:18:22,359 --> 01:18:25,399
were quite a few people who were volunteering and just

1104
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:27,880
like joining these groups on their own that weren't going

1105
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:31,239
through the IB that are inflating some of those numbers.

1106
01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:34,800
But also Communists eleve inflating numbers, don't they.

1107
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:39,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Communist International claim that fully fifty percent of

1108
01:18:39,399 --> 01:18:42,960
International Brigade volunteers were members of the Communist Party, are

1109
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,520
the sources estimate as low as twenty five percent the

1110
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:53,399
officers were exclusively Communist Party members exclusively Jewish sources Prego

1111
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:57,479
nineteen seventy nine Sugarman nineteen ninety eight state that approximately

1112
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:01,079
twenty five percent of the International Brigade members were provably Jewish,

1113
01:19:01,399 --> 01:19:04,800
with Jews making up thirty eight percent of American volunteers,

1114
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,880
forty five percent of polls, and virtually all of the Romanians.

1115
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,680
The vast majority of officers and commissars in the International

1116
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,800
Brigade were indoubtedly Jewish, as were the leaders of the

1117
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:17,039
Soviet missions to Spain.

1118
01:19:19,239 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 2: Hey, I believe them.

1119
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I choose to believe. I choose to believe when

1120
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:26,199
they brag about stuff.

1121
01:19:26,279 --> 01:19:29,159
Speaker 2: And I think it's the oh gosh, is it the

1122
01:19:29,319 --> 01:19:34,560
Jewish Encyclopedia. There's a whole bunch of sources online where

1123
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,039
they document where they literally look at the names of

1124
01:19:37,079 --> 01:19:42,079
all the people that are put together by these ib

1125
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:47,000
veterans organizations and they list them and they tell the

1126
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:50,000
you know where all this comes from, and they talk

1127
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:53,199
about it and they say, oh, you know, it's so

1128
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:59,600
bad and so anti Semitic that the contribution of Jews

1129
01:20:00,399 --> 01:20:04,520
to the International Brigades are so downplayed because people are

1130
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:09,800
afraid and it's like you're you're you may have a

1131
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:14,920
high verbal IQ, but I don't think you're you know, yeah,

1132
01:20:15,279 --> 01:20:20,800
continued continued, Please keep telling us what you are actually doing.

1133
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,079
Speaker 1: Not very good strategically when it comes.

1134
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 2: To horrible, it's like it's a total lack of understanding

1135
01:20:27,159 --> 01:20:29,800
of humanity.

1136
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: A note on the volunteer foreign volunteer forces supporting the

1137
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:42,720
Nationalists Italy. The Italian Royal Air Force AVIZE Legionetia provided

1138
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:48,600
twelve Savoya Marquetti eighty one transport aircraft supported by Fiat

1139
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:52,119
CR thirty two fighters for the July nineteen thirty six

1140
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:55,159
airlift operation, which carried the Army of Africa and Foreign

1141
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:59,079
Legion across the Straight at Gibraltar to Spain. All told,

1142
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:02,079
the av SO applied six hundred and sixty aircraft and

1143
01:21:02,119 --> 01:21:06,199
thousands of men before the end of the war. Lusi In,

1144
01:21:06,239 --> 01:21:11,199
the Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs Chiano, and General Roada

1145
01:21:12,119 --> 01:21:15,720
launched an expeditionary force December twelfth, nineteen thirty six, with

1146
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:19,319
Rada as commander in chief of what was later named

1147
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:24,359
the Corporo Trupe Volentari. They furnished fifty thousand men at

1148
01:21:24,359 --> 01:21:26,399
the peak of operations in a total of one hundred

1149
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:29,720
and fifty tanks and eight hundred artillery pieces, in addition

1150
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:31,479
to small arms and ammunition.

1151
01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:37,359
Speaker 2: Their contribution cannot be understated or overstated. I should say

1152
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:41,840
that in terms of numbers and dead, the Italian contribution

1153
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:43,399
to the war was massive.

1154
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:49,119
Speaker 1: The Italian Royal Navy engaged in blockade breaking, submarine operations,

1155
01:21:49,159 --> 01:21:54,000
troop transportation, and naval bombardments of Republican held coastal cities.

1156
01:21:55,319 --> 01:22:00,840
The Lufwaffa furnished twenty Lufthansa nominally commercial junk fifty two

1157
01:22:01,039 --> 01:22:06,439
transport aircraft supported by Luftwaffe is that Henkel. It's Heinkel

1158
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:10,119
right Henkel Henkel H fifty one fighters for the July

1159
01:22:10,279 --> 01:22:13,760
nineteen thirty six airlift operation, which carried the Army of

1160
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,760
Africa and Foreign Legion across the Straight to Gibraltar to Spain.

1161
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:24,920
Germany's initial commitment was only the Operation Magic Fire fyodoresabed

1162
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,560
transport mission, which was then followed by an effort to

1163
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:33,479
train the Spanish aircrews, then was expanded September thirtieth, nineteen

1164
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,680
thirty six, into a full military expedition, soon to be

1165
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:41,399
dubbed the Condor Legion. In addition to an expanded air wing,

1166
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,359
German ground forces were soon added to the mission, including

1167
01:22:44,399 --> 01:22:48,159
machine gun batteries, a tank division, and anti aircraft guns

1168
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:51,720
and anti aircraft guns. Over time, older aircraft would be

1169
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,319
transitioned to the Spanish Nationalist Air Force, while German pilots

1170
01:22:55,359 --> 01:22:59,840
brought the latest aircraft into the fight. The Kriegsmarine and

1171
01:23:00,079 --> 01:23:07,119
gaged in convoy ex court escort, blockade breaking, naval bombardment,

1172
01:23:07,239 --> 01:23:12,960
and U boat operations Portugal. In the first weeks of

1173
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,640
the war, the Portuguese military attempted to form a Viriatos

1174
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:22,760
Legion with their own army named for the historic Lusitanian

1175
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:28,640
leader Vidiathus, to aid the nationalist cause. Due to internal

1176
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,640
political and revolutionary struggles with their own left, the Salazar

1177
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,079
government dialved back the effort into an assistance program for

1178
01:23:35,159 --> 01:23:39,199
volunteers for Falanguay and an Equete Militias or the Spanish

1179
01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:43,600
Foreign Legion. Under pressure from the International Non Intervention Committee,

1180
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,920
in February nineteen thirty seven, the Salazar government published a

1181
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,920
decree prohibiting the enlistment of volunteers on either side of

1182
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:54,319
the conflict. A Portuguese military observation mission was established in

1183
01:23:54,359 --> 01:23:58,600
March nineteen thirty seven to both study the conflict militarily

1184
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,359
as well as to covertly assist eight to twelve thousand

1185
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:05,680
volunteers and navigating their service and post war return home.

1186
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:11,319
Most critically, Portugal supplied key seaports in the early days

1187
01:24:11,319 --> 01:24:15,000
of the war, funneling armaments from abroad to the nationalists

1188
01:24:15,039 --> 01:24:18,119
across the border, which the nationalists had secured in its

1189
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:20,880
entirety by the end of nineteen thirty six.

1190
01:24:21,399 --> 01:24:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Portuguese contribution is there're those men, and

1191
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:31,319
I don't want to downplay the contribution of eight thousand

1192
01:24:31,359 --> 01:24:36,560
to twelve thousand men just for political reasons the Portuguese government.

1193
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,760
And we see how far left the Portuguese government becomes.

1194
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:43,159
Like in the sixties and seventies, right, they were dealing

1195
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:48,920
with a very similar situation. Very small country, poor country,

1196
01:24:49,079 --> 01:24:53,359
you know, collapsed in many ways like Spain. Never had

1197
01:24:53,399 --> 01:24:57,920
the huge empire that Spain had, but it was still

1198
01:24:58,079 --> 01:25:03,239
you know, they're their fingerprints well were all over the world,

1199
01:25:05,199 --> 01:25:09,560
and they had risen and fallen very sharply as well,

1200
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:10,239
Isn't that?

1201
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:12,680
Speaker 1: Isn't that mostly because a lot a lot of the

1202
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,680
great port the great men of Portugal would just hop

1203
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,600
over the border and go and yeah, joins join the Spanish.

1204
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,000
So that they could go overseas, and then many of

1205
01:25:22,039 --> 01:25:23,479
them were moted to leadership.

1206
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, and the and the span the Spanish

1207
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:30,239
system had an allowance for that, like you know, okay,

1208
01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:34,159
you have a charter. And but the big thing was

1209
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:39,119
that they're seaports because as you'll recall when when you like,

1210
01:25:39,159 --> 01:25:41,600
when you look at the map of the seaports that

1211
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:45,600
the nationalists controlled, there weren't that many. You know, there

1212
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:50,359
was there was the landing at Cadiz and then Sevilla

1213
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,960
that they had, but they when it came to like

1214
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,960
getting supplies up to the Carlists in the north, that

1215
01:25:58,039 --> 01:26:02,600
stuff was going through Portugal because and then as the

1216
01:26:03,279 --> 01:26:06,279
you know, my theory is part of the reason that

1217
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:09,720
it was so easy for the nationalists to move up

1218
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:14,680
the western side of Spain bordering Portugal is because the

1219
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:20,680
Portuguese government were facilitating the movement of international armaments and

1220
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:25,079
fuel and everything through their borders. So it was very

1221
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:27,720
critical for them to secure all those points. And when

1222
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,520
you read the individual stories about the battles for the

1223
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,720
cities along there, there's a lot of bitching about the

1224
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:38,960
Portuguese because by the Libtards, because the Portuguese they don't

1225
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,239
want a communist country right on their border, and Portugal

1226
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:45,600
in Spain, you know, that is a struggle that goes

1227
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:50,479
back for their whole history, right, So it's a really

1228
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:54,039
important contribution that the government did, but they had to

1229
01:26:54,079 --> 01:26:57,520
dial it back. Like I said, it was an internal thing,

1230
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,199
but a lot of it was international, and I know

1231
01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:02,800
they bitch about the Solisar government as much as they

1232
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,159
bitch about the Fronco government and the liptarted press. So

1233
01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:11,159
it's very it was a very critical contribution that the

1234
01:27:11,199 --> 01:27:17,279
Portuguese made. We're going to stop right there because really yeah,

1235
01:27:17,319 --> 01:27:21,159
because really nineteen thirty six to nineteen thirty seven is

1236
01:27:22,119 --> 01:27:24,600
when there's a huge shift in the war. So this

1237
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:27,199
is almost a purpose to stop. This is like the

1238
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:28,439
jump off.

1239
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, all right. Remind everybody where they can find

1240
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:33,000
your stuff.

1241
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 2: Uh. I am on Twitter codeal Doll. If you just

1242
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:39,800
look for Carl Doll, you'll be able to find me.

1243
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:44,800
And also I have a substack Carldoll dot substack dot com.

1244
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:49,640
By book, I have a fictional novel about the Spanish

1245
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:54,479
Civil War that required like five years of research and

1246
01:27:54,520 --> 01:28:00,000
I had to relearn Spanish to read like good source material,

1247
01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:02,399
So I have a ton of articles about the stuff

1248
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:06,439
that I found out that when you google it a

1249
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:10,039
lot of times, my substack is the number one result

1250
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:13,760
in the English language for a lot of these topics, because,

1251
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,039
like I said, you know, this stuff cries out to

1252
01:28:18,079 --> 01:28:23,279
be translated into English. So thanks, Pete, appreciate it, Thanks

1253
01:28:23,279 --> 01:28:24,039
for having me here.

1254
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:30,119
Speaker 1: Hail Victory. Help until part two. Help. I want to

1255
01:28:30,119 --> 01:28:34,039
welcome everyone back to the Pekingana Show, Part two of

1256
01:28:34,119 --> 01:28:37,239
the Spanish Civil War with Carl Dahl. What's going on?

1257
01:28:37,279 --> 01:28:40,239
Speaker 2: Carl, Hey, Pete, Happy Monday.

1258
01:28:41,399 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Happy Monday, man. Let's uh, let's do this. Is going

1259
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:46,840
to release us tomorrow, so this will be nice and

1260
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,920
fresh for people. Awesome, not like we got to sit

1261
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,960
on it for a while. So yeah, let's pick up

1262
01:28:52,039 --> 01:28:57,000
right where we left off. And the bullet points came to.

1263
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:02,439
We had just talked about Portugal and now let's just

1264
01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:05,439
pick right up where we left off. The North Falls

1265
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:12,319
nineteen thirty seven, Madrid and its northeastern flank in Guadalajara

1266
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:19,600
hold against relentless assault Franco strategic focus. The capture of

1267
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:23,119
Madrid leads to a grinding struggle over several months which

1268
01:29:23,159 --> 01:29:28,479
sees no improvement in the nationalist situation. After failed nationalist

1269
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:35,319
offensives in Yarama and Guadalajara cause heavy Spanish and Italian casualties,

1270
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:39,760
Successes elsewhere such as It's taking Amalaga and a large

1271
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:43,760
Swatha territory in southern Spain encourage nationalist forces to look

1272
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:49,239
elsewhere for more vulnerable threats. The nationalist strategy shifts mostly

1273
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:54,720
away from fixation upon prestige targets and toward attrition warfare.

1274
01:29:55,239 --> 01:29:58,119
Speaker 2: And I'll point out one thing there, Pete. This is

1275
01:29:59,159 --> 01:30:04,119
often with a asterix like to the great frustration of

1276
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:10,279
his allies and commentators, because the you'll you'll see the

1277
01:30:10,319 --> 01:30:15,600
reference in Guadalajara, there were heavy Spanish and Italian casualties

1278
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:21,079
across those two battles. The Italians and the Germans wanted

1279
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:27,840
to smash this pass at Guadalajara, and Franco, after you know,

1280
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,880
initial struggles, didn't think it was going to pan out,

1281
01:30:31,239 --> 01:30:34,560
and the Italians kind of went for it anyway, dictating

1282
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,319
what the what the strategy would be, I should say,

1283
01:30:38,359 --> 01:30:41,279
the Italians and the and the Germans who were supporting

1284
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:44,520
in the air and uh, this really pissed off Franco

1285
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:50,039
and he there's debates on whether he had committed to

1286
01:30:50,199 --> 01:30:53,399
provide forces and didn't or if he originally said I

1287
01:30:53,399 --> 01:30:58,159
don't think there's an operation there and they expected to

1288
01:30:58,279 --> 01:31:01,439
come save them, and it was more of a He

1289
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:03,479
brought enough of a force so that they could have

1290
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:08,359
a controlled retreat and the Italians took heavy casualties. So

1291
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,359
not only was it a change in their strategy, but

1292
01:31:11,399 --> 01:31:13,720
it was one of the times, it was one of

1293
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:19,399
the first visible instances where his foreign allies tried to

1294
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:25,840
push strategic and operational moves that Franco didn't agree with,

1295
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:30,439
and he rained them in, and he very successfully rained

1296
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:33,520
them in pretty much for the rest of the war.

1297
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:37,600
It's a sore spot with the folks that look at

1298
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:42,000
the Spanish Civil War from a non Spanish focus. If

1299
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:46,920
their orientation is towards these allies, and you know, all

1300
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,520
out of caveat that we should, you know, and do

1301
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:54,640
respect their sacrifices, it's still a Spanish war being run

1302
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:59,279
by the Spanish. So that was a very interesting thing.

1303
01:31:59,319 --> 01:32:02,159
That is a big star point in pretty much all

1304
01:32:02,199 --> 01:32:06,279
of the histories that you'll read, and it's pretty clear

1305
01:32:06,399 --> 01:32:10,000
that it was Franco asserting himself there. It wasn't the

1306
01:32:10,039 --> 01:32:17,279
strategy wasn't working, and so he changed his strategy accordingly,

1307
01:32:17,399 --> 01:32:21,600
which was highly successful after long periods of trying to

1308
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:23,600
do what they were kind of telling him to do

1309
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,039
and and not really working.

1310
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, the war in the north, Republican forces

1311
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,720
in Basque Country, cut off by land and with little

1312
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:38,199
resupply and reinforcement coming by sea due to blockade, are

1313
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:43,199
slowly whittled down by Riquette militia's, the Navarre Brigade and

1314
01:32:43,319 --> 01:32:46,760
later Nationalist army columns and Italian troops. In the west,

1315
01:32:47,399 --> 01:32:52,279
Entire units of Catholic Basque conscripts surrendered to then join

1316
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,600
their cousins in the nationalists.

1317
01:32:54,640 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 2: Rakeetis yeah, small small point there is that the kind

1318
01:33:01,039 --> 01:33:08,760
of uh, the kind of retrospective Basque nationalist position is

1319
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:10,920
that you know, oh, they were so put upon by

1320
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:17,600
Franco and actually, uh, the early recutees were largely Basque

1321
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,840
and they made quick converts because you could be in

1322
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:26,479
a labor battalion or prison camp or dead, or you

1323
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:30,800
could hang out with your fellow traditionalist Catholics, and that

1324
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:37,199
and the Basque were the kind of Basque nationalist peace

1325
01:33:37,319 --> 01:33:43,000
up in Basque Country was very divided between these kind

1326
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:47,960
of traditionalists and the socialists who were part of the

1327
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:53,880
real Republican orientation. That was a big division between the two,

1328
01:33:54,279 --> 01:33:57,600
and so it was an easy move to move over

1329
01:33:58,119 --> 01:34:01,399
in a way from the kind of There weren't as

1330
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:08,680
many indignities in an atrocities in the North by the

1331
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:13,520
Republic because they were tempered by this kind of traditionalist

1332
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:17,239
Catholic basque uh, you know, the bulk of the population.

1333
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,720
But they still weren't big fans of those people, and

1334
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,840
especially as you pointed out the last time we talked Pete,

1335
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,319
like they would just tell you what they thought, right,

1336
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:32,800
like nobody was mincing words. And so the the Catholics

1337
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:38,840
very quickly saw the light and came over to the

1338
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:43,039
the Recutes and the and the Navarre Brigade, because it

1339
01:34:43,079 --> 01:34:46,479
was a much better deal for them than persisting in

1340
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:48,920
the delusion that they could that they could win.

1341
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:56,920
Speaker 1: All right, Combined arms operations coordination between ground troops, armor

1342
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:02,079
and aviation are born enabled by movements in and availability

1343
01:35:02,199 --> 01:35:07,920
of mobile radios. One of the Republic's greatest errors in

1344
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:12,439
the North is reliance upon press ganged monarchist engineers in

1345
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:17,880
the development of defensive fortifications around Basque country. Captain Pablo

1346
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:22,760
Murga is executed November nineteenth, nineteen thirty six, for providing

1347
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:27,319
plans for the fortifications to an Austrian consul, Wilhelm Wolkanig,

1348
01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:33,600
who is himself arrested and executed by the Republic on

1349
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:39,640
February twenty seventh, nineteen thirty seven. Captain Alejandro goico aheya

1350
01:35:40,119 --> 01:35:45,560
goicoijeya good job? Who Yeah, well you put the pronunciation there.

1351
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:47,279
Speaker 2: Who have to.

1352
01:35:51,279 --> 01:35:54,279
Speaker 1: Who only wants to work on trains, crosses the front

1353
01:35:54,319 --> 01:35:57,159
with a group of Carlist sympathizers in a pre arranged

1354
01:35:57,199 --> 01:36:01,560
surrender of the fourth Brigade of Navarre, delivers detailed plans

1355
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:06,279
on the fortifications around Bilbao, known alternately as the Iron

1356
01:36:06,319 --> 01:36:09,119
Belts in Spanish, the Iron Ring in English, and the

1357
01:36:09,159 --> 01:36:13,680
Iron French Offence in Basque. Iron Belt hits hardest, sorry, guys,

1358
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:19,399
including the locations of vulnerabilities he deliberately engineered into its construction.

1359
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's a it's this is a story

1360
01:36:23,319 --> 01:36:26,880
that like you'll just get this little brief thing that

1361
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:31,600
he went over in in your kind of English language

1362
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:38,279
summary histories. But the Spanish material that Goikoehea was like

1363
01:36:38,399 --> 01:36:43,520
a big wheel in Spain for decades and a major

1364
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:49,840
player in transportation and the like his his his innovations

1365
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:52,720
are everywhere today and a lot of them are becoming

1366
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:57,359
fulfilled as technology and metallurgy and stuff advances. I have

1367
01:36:57,399 --> 01:37:00,800
a fun little article about him on my sub stack

1368
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:05,199
for anyone who's interested. But he literally just wanted to

1369
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,600
work on trains and they wouldn't let him. He will

1370
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:11,479
he would say this like up to his death, total

1371
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:15,920
autist and all anyone wants to talk about in interview.

1372
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:19,880
The rare interview with him in Spanish television in the

1373
01:37:20,039 --> 01:37:24,840
sixties and seventies is about this period in history and

1374
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:27,760
all he wants to talk about his trains. He's so delightful.

1375
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:33,279
Speaker 1: That's really cool. Someone who someone who knows what his

1376
01:37:33,359 --> 01:37:38,479
strength then is just like and and just this is

1377
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:40,520
this is my lane. I'm staying in it.

1378
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:44,399
Speaker 2: He called himself an enemy of war, and so the

1379
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,159
fact that they tried to make him participate in a

1380
01:37:47,159 --> 01:37:51,399
war that he opposed, he just swore eternal hostility to them.

1381
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:53,359
But he also just set it out of his mind.

1382
01:37:56,319 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 1: Now, freed from distraction, go ahead, Ehea is set loose

1383
01:38:02,039 --> 01:38:06,119
to work on transportation infrastructure projects for the nascent Nationalist government.

1384
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:10,920
He goes on to revolutionize rail transportation with his Talgo trains,

1385
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:14,319
and his innovations still see fruition as technology catches up

1386
01:38:14,359 --> 01:38:17,079
to his brilliant mind. Gwiquay was given a great deal

1387
01:38:17,119 --> 01:38:20,319
of leeway by Francisco Franco, who saw him and his

1388
01:38:21,399 --> 01:38:27,039
inventions as exemplars of Spanish science and industry. While aerial

1389
01:38:27,079 --> 01:38:30,000
bombings of urban areas are carried out by both the

1390
01:38:30,119 --> 01:38:34,880
Nationalists and Republican forces throughout Spain, atrocity propaganda reaches its

1391
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:38,720
twentieth century pinnacle when military targets in the historic vast

1392
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:45,039
city of Guarnerica is it pronounced Garnica, Wernica Yeah, Guernica Yeah,

1393
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:50,560
are bombed by German and Italian aircraft in addition to

1394
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:53,239
Republican soldier as many civilians are killed and much of

1395
01:38:53,279 --> 01:38:57,319
the town destroyed. Red journalist George Steer passes on in

1396
01:38:57,359 --> 01:39:00,560
his reporting from the scene the inflated figure of sixteen

1397
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:02,760
hundred and fifty four killed in eight hundred and eighty

1398
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:09,159
nine wounded, Although current consensus, driven by thorough post Franco investigators,

1399
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:13,800
is a mere one hundred and fifty three deaths. Nationalists

1400
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:17,119
press liaisons reveal their ineptitude by first blowing off the

1401
01:39:17,159 --> 01:39:19,960
claims of having bombed the city at all, blaming the

1402
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:24,960
destruction entirely upon retreating Republican forces standard forces a standard

1403
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:29,800
tactic of demolishing corridors as both a delaying tactic and

1404
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:33,600
a temper tantrum, when in fact the Luftwaffa documented their

1405
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:36,720
bombing operation in great detail.

1406
01:39:37,399 --> 01:39:42,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this is one of the most complicated elements

1407
01:39:42,359 --> 01:39:48,720
of the war overall, and so I and it's really

1408
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:52,520
unfortunate that the nationalists like just completely denied it, or

1409
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:57,039
I should say the nationalist press liaisons completely denied it.

1410
01:39:57,079 --> 01:40:00,880
But it did happen. But again, a lot of it

1411
01:40:01,119 --> 01:40:05,840
was very clearly Republican. A lot of the damage was

1412
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:10,399
Republican behavior as well. It was their mo.

1413
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:19,279
Speaker 1: All right side note Pablo Picasso's now famous paint Sang Guernica,

1414
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:22,000
said to have shook up the world that the nineteen

1415
01:40:22,039 --> 01:40:25,439
thirty seven Paris' Worldfare as a protest against the senseless

1416
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,680
bombings of the historic Basque city for no reason by

1417
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:32,239
evil mustache men, had actually been a flop. Disdained by

1418
01:40:32,239 --> 01:40:35,600
the global public the Spanish and the Basque. A heavy

1419
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:39,000
propaganda campaign persisted with the Peace touring Great Britain in

1420
01:40:39,079 --> 01:40:42,199
nineteen thirty eight, to a little fanfare a nineteen thirty

1421
01:40:42,279 --> 01:40:44,960
nine tour of the United States with the Spanish Relief Campaign,

1422
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,720
so critics continue to dismiss it. Only during a wildly

1423
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:52,560
successful touring show of a large Picasso collection begun in

1424
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,319
New York in November nineteen thirty nine, as war raged

1425
01:40:55,319 --> 01:40:58,920
in Europe, that the propaganda campaign finally succeed in elevating

1426
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:03,479
this piece to its now historically relevant position. It is

1427
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,119
alleged in older pieces that Guernica was originally inspired by

1428
01:41:07,399 --> 01:41:11,039
inspired by the Peninsular War as a general commentary on war,

1429
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:15,720
and repurposed by Spanish Republican propagandas after the bombing.

1430
01:41:16,159 --> 01:41:19,159
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to find exactly where I've seen that.

1431
01:41:19,279 --> 01:41:21,840
I've seen it in multiple places. I know Kemp makes

1432
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:25,600
a reference to it. I've seen it in other written records,

1433
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:28,600
but I'm having trouble finding it right now, which is

1434
01:41:29,039 --> 01:41:32,039
the joy of having read so many pieces. So that's

1435
01:41:32,039 --> 01:41:34,119
something I'm going to correct, and once I find it,

1436
01:41:34,239 --> 01:41:37,359
I think I'll have an article on my substack about

1437
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:42,039
all these kind of controversies and arguments about Guernica and

1438
01:41:42,119 --> 01:41:47,560
just the fact that the propaganda campaign finally succeeded once

1439
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:51,159
World War two was kicking off. But that was hugely

1440
01:41:51,319 --> 01:41:54,720
due to just like media promotion of it, because they

1441
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:58,399
tried and tried and tried, as you've explained, and it

1442
01:41:59,079 --> 01:42:02,439
finally took when World War two had already started.

1443
01:42:05,199 --> 01:42:08,680
Speaker 1: And a typically courageous and honorable move Riquette forces from

1444
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:14,680
the Tercio Tercio of Bogogna first to capture Guarnica two

1445
01:42:14,720 --> 01:42:17,800
days after the bombing, encircle the historic Tree of Guernica

1446
01:42:18,119 --> 01:42:21,840
and protect it from phlogists from other parts of Spain

1447
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:25,439
who wished to fell the symbol of Basque nationalism, under

1448
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:27,960
which the lords of Biscay swore their odes to the

1449
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,000
Fueros for five hundred years.

1450
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's actually a fun story, in a true

1451
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:39,840
story that came out of written records from veterans of

1452
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:45,800
the Navarre Brigades that this happened and a nice little

1453
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:52,399
fist fight between officers ensued. So yeah, it's one of

1454
01:42:52,399 --> 01:42:57,600
these very interesting sore spots where the kind of the

1455
01:42:57,720 --> 01:43:03,079
respect for the various expressions of locality as long as

1456
01:43:03,119 --> 01:43:08,039
they didn't actually undermine the collective nationalism. Were kind of

1457
01:43:08,119 --> 01:43:09,560
settled during the war.

1458
01:43:12,039 --> 01:43:17,000
Speaker 1: The Creto April nineteen, nineteen thirty seven, the Flongay and

1459
01:43:17,039 --> 01:43:22,159
Carlos Riquettes are formally unified into the Falangay Espanola Tradisson

1460
01:43:23,079 --> 01:43:33,479
Tradision No Lista de lost offensive Va national national Syndica Lista.

1461
01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a brutal mouthful one, but it's

1462
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:46,920
literally just they take the traditionalist group and then smush

1463
01:43:47,279 --> 01:43:52,680
around it like envelop the traditionalist party name with fallong

1464
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:58,920
Gay and then it was the Fallongay de las Jones, right,

1465
01:44:00,079 --> 01:44:05,359
and so they just crammed everything together and it's everyone

1466
01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:08,640
like laughs about it. But the real point of it

1467
01:44:09,039 --> 01:44:12,479
is what follows.

1468
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:18,840
Speaker 1: One party, one army, one state for longest and Carlost

1469
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,560
units still fight under the command of their own officers

1470
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:23,960
and are allowed to use their own symbols through the

1471
01:44:24,039 --> 01:44:26,920
end of the war, but the militias are fully incorporated

1472
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:30,920
into the Nationalist Armies command and logistics structure.

1473
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:33,600
Speaker 2: And post war they're able to use those symbols as well,

1474
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,800
you know, and then from then on, so the veterans

1475
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:41,920
organizations can you know where those colors. But after the war,

1476
01:44:42,039 --> 01:44:47,920
the military is Spanish military is standardized, where it's strictly

1477
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,520
the symbols that the leadership selects. So it was a

1478
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,720
tip of the hat to you know, how they got there,

1479
01:44:57,279 --> 01:45:01,239
and rather than trying to press one or the other,

1480
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:07,479
it was a pretty small, a small, pretty small move

1481
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:13,239
to allow people to keep their symbols. Because keep in mind,

1482
01:45:13,359 --> 01:45:17,880
Franco was non ideological. These groups may have been ideological,

1483
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,760
although I would guess that most of the actual fighters

1484
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:25,960
weren't particularly ido ideological other than like the outcomes that

1485
01:45:26,039 --> 01:45:29,640
they were trying to get. So it's just it's a

1486
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,119
very big thing for us all to think about as

1487
01:45:32,239 --> 01:45:34,319
we go into this new world.

1488
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:42,680
Speaker 1: The May days in Catalonia, fighting between the more libertarian anarchists,

1489
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:47,239
the communists and the bentany CNCI fal is that FAI

1490
01:45:47,399 --> 01:45:52,640
right fai yeah, ends in republican consolidation of power over

1491
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:57,399
Catalonia and a renewed focus upon the collective fight against

1492
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:01,600
the nationalists. As is true to this translates into the

1493
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:05,520
communist forces forcing the less radical and libertarian elements to

1494
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:09,720
submit or die. The decree to unify the militias went

1495
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:12,439
out in nineteen thirty six, but the role became de

1496
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:15,560
facto during the course of nineteen thirty seven with the

1497
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:21,199
brigidas mixed to mixed brigades combining militias and the remains

1498
01:46:21,199 --> 01:46:24,800
of international brigades with regular army troops. The last of

1499
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:28,279
the wholdouts are liquidated by commissars and for.

1500
01:46:28,399 --> 01:46:32,079
Speaker 2: The average, for the average person in one of these militias,

1501
01:46:32,279 --> 01:46:34,760
like they're just going to get with the program. But

1502
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:39,439
it was the commissars were going after the particularly the

1503
01:46:40,279 --> 01:46:43,359
the anarchists did not have commissars per se, but they

1504
01:46:43,479 --> 01:46:48,600
had kind of natural leaders who would you know, you know,

1505
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:53,600
spit games as it were, regarding what their ideology was.

1506
01:46:54,119 --> 01:46:58,479
And those people were just eliminated if they didn't just

1507
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:02,039
shut up and get with the program. So you see

1508
01:47:02,079 --> 01:47:07,039
the comparison where under the Nationalists, you're allowed to keep

1509
01:47:07,079 --> 01:47:11,640
your symbols and you know, your songs and your talking

1510
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:15,239
points as long as you're part of the operation, whereas

1511
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:20,720
with the Republicans, like the ideology is the important thing,

1512
01:47:21,079 --> 01:47:23,000
the symbols are the important thing.

1513
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 1: Right June third, nineteen thirty seven, General Mala Commander are

1514
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:34,079
the Armies of the North and champion of the Carlist

1515
01:47:34,159 --> 01:47:42,239
Traditionalists parishes in an airplane accident. June nineteenth, Bilbao, the

1516
01:47:42,319 --> 01:47:45,439
capital of Beskaya, falls to the Nationalists after months of

1517
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:50,840
heavy fighting. July sixth, in an attempt to seize Nationalists

1518
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:53,720
territory and divert their forces in the north, the Republican

1519
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:57,920
army launches an offensive west of Madrid, forced upon Brunette.

1520
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:02,039
Republican forces are ultimately routed at a loss of twenty

1521
01:48:02,119 --> 01:48:03,560
five thousand men, and.

1522
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:09,680
Speaker 2: This will become a pattern. When the Republicans attempt an offensive.

1523
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:16,319
Speaker 1: August twenty fourth to the eastern Aragon, Republican forces conceive

1524
01:48:16,399 --> 01:48:21,760
of an offensive internationalist territory in the direction of Zaragoza,

1525
01:48:22,079 --> 01:48:25,800
the province's capital. In a grinding battle against heavy resistance,

1526
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:29,640
the offensive stalls for propaganda purposes the republic and their

1527
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:34,840
tame gay retard. Journalist Ernest Hemingway dubbed the failed offensive

1528
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:42,319
the Battle of bils Sete Belchite, Belchite being the destroyed

1529
01:48:42,399 --> 01:48:45,399
town that they finally capture on September sixth, despite the

1530
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:49,720
resistance of both nationalists and civilian defenders. The Republican price

1531
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:52,600
for a bit of strategically useless territory is nearly nine

1532
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:59,239
thousand casualties and a heavy loss in equipment. August twenty sixth,

1533
01:48:59,359 --> 01:49:04,800
the city of Santander falls to Nationalist troops supported by

1534
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:09,479
a substantial force of Italians. Sixty thousand Republican soldiers are captured.

1535
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:15,359
October twenty first, Gihon Astoriasts, the last toe hold of

1536
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,640
the Republic in the North falls to the Nationalists. The

1537
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:22,479
Nationalists army, fresh from victory in the North, retools and

1538
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:26,960
reorganize us with new equipment and tactical capabilities. The Republican army,

1539
01:49:27,039 --> 01:49:31,199
fresh from getting wrecked, retools and reorganizes under its ideological

1540
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:35,560
ideologically pure communist officers trained in Russia.

1541
01:49:36,199 --> 01:49:39,079
Speaker 2: So if you look at the timeline just to kind

1542
01:49:39,119 --> 01:49:43,520
of summarize where we what brought us here. When the

1543
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:48,399
war kicks off at the very beginning, you know, the

1544
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:52,000
Nationalists only hold the territory that they hold. There's that

1545
01:49:52,199 --> 01:49:57,079
kind of band in the northern areas not counting you know,

1546
01:49:57,279 --> 01:50:03,800
Basque country, and then little toe holds, and then towards

1547
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:08,640
the end of nineteen thirty six and nineteen thirty seven,

1548
01:50:08,760 --> 01:50:12,319
it's consolidation of these holdings kind of in a westward

1549
01:50:12,359 --> 01:50:18,479
flank and slowly slowly whittling away and making gains all

1550
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:25,159
the kind of militias had to do before the Nationalist

1551
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:28,680
you know, the bulk of Nationalist forces coming from the

1552
01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:34,720
Army of Africa is hold these territories, and then what

1553
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:37,039
do they do? They continue to hold them. The Army

1554
01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:40,520
continues to hold these territories, and then they just grind

1555
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:44,119
out the north. A lot of that though, again like

1556
01:50:44,199 --> 01:50:46,039
I made reference to as a lot of it is

1557
01:50:47,199 --> 01:50:54,199
large basque forces going over and basically you know, continuing

1558
01:50:54,239 --> 01:50:59,840
to wear the red beret, just as recutees and nationalists.

1559
01:51:01,399 --> 01:51:06,920
So it's a big focus. The rest of the Republican

1560
01:51:07,039 --> 01:51:09,760
forces are kind of just trying to hold on to

1561
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:16,239
what they have and consolidate into a single force and

1562
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:20,159
just failing anytime they tried to do any kind of

1563
01:51:20,319 --> 01:51:22,279
offensive operations.

1564
01:51:26,199 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 1: Terro December thirty seventh February through February nineteen thirty eight,

1565
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:36,319
the Republican army, desperate for a successful battle and needing

1566
01:51:36,399 --> 01:51:39,279
to secure the nationalist's most obvious gateway to the south,

1567
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:44,560
drove into the remote capital during heavy snowfall. Nationalist forces

1568
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:48,079
prudently withdraw into the most defensible part of town, but

1569
01:51:48,199 --> 01:51:52,840
general Franco orders that it be retaken. No provincial capital

1570
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:56,960
can fall to the Republicans. To the coldest winter in

1571
01:51:57,039 --> 01:52:00,800
twenty years, the Nationalist response stalls and a relief force

1572
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:05,159
is not able to attack until December twenty ninth. Worsening weather.

1573
01:52:05,399 --> 01:52:09,960
The temperature drops to zero degrees fahrenheit minus eighteen celsius

1574
01:52:10,079 --> 01:52:13,399
and four feet to one hundred and twenty centimeters of

1575
01:52:13,439 --> 01:52:17,880
snowfalls keeps aviation largely grounded and prevents the Nationalists from

1576
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:22,520
retaking the city. The besieged Nationalists defenders surrender on January eighth,

1577
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:26,680
which allows the civilian population to be evacuated through Nationalist lines.

1578
01:52:27,319 --> 01:52:29,640
The weather eases up in the Nationalists, now one hundred

1579
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:33,279
thousand strong in the immediate area, begins to capture territory

1580
01:52:33,319 --> 01:52:37,279
around the city where Republican forces are weakest. On February seventh,

1581
01:52:37,359 --> 01:52:40,359
one of the last mass cavalry charges in the history

1582
01:52:40,399 --> 01:52:43,960
of warfare breaks the Republican defenses to the north of

1583
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:47,600
the town and scatters them. The Nationalists take thousands of

1584
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:51,359
prisoners in massive stocks of weapons and equipment. They slowly

1585
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:55,640
encircle Teraweh over the following weeks. When they take the

1586
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:58,800
city on February twenty second, they capture fourteen thousand, five

1587
01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:01,560
hundred men some of the best weapons left in the

1588
01:53:02,039 --> 01:53:07,159
Republican arsenal. While both sides take similar similarly heavy casualties

1589
01:53:07,199 --> 01:53:10,560
from combat, illness and the cold, the defeat breaks the

1590
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:13,840
back of the Republican army, while the Nationalists immediately launched

1591
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:15,800
a new offensive. Yeah.

1592
01:53:16,039 --> 01:53:20,520
Speaker 2: The other thing here too, focusing on the weapons and

1593
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:25,159
equipment that are captured. This is like armor. So the

1594
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:32,359
Nationalists really enjoyed taking captured Soviet tanks and armored cars

1595
01:53:32,399 --> 01:53:37,279
and the like guns, anti tank guns, et cetera. They

1596
01:53:37,399 --> 01:53:39,359
preferred them in a lot of cases because they were

1597
01:53:39,399 --> 01:53:42,119
so simple and easy to train with, whereas like a

1598
01:53:42,199 --> 01:53:45,760
lot of the German stuff, they'd have complicated optics that

1599
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:48,760
were more complicated than necessary from you know, when you're

1600
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:51,840
talking about the ranges that are involved in an effective

1601
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:55,039
range for like an anti anti tank gun. Right. So

1602
01:53:55,920 --> 01:54:00,159
it's really interesting because the Nationalists immediately put this these

1603
01:54:00,199 --> 01:54:03,159
weapons to use. They have fuel and they have people

1604
01:54:03,199 --> 01:54:08,520
to operate them, whereas the republic you know, is you know,

1605
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:11,119
they have to get things delivered by say or coming

1606
01:54:11,159 --> 01:54:15,640
over the border from France, and you know, the Soviets

1607
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:21,319
are pretty stingy after their initial deliveries of armor and

1608
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:25,039
a lot of more modern stuff. So it just becomes

1609
01:54:25,159 --> 01:54:29,239
this this grind where this this becomes the repeated pattern

1610
01:54:29,319 --> 01:54:31,119
that you just continue to see for the rest of

1611
01:54:31,159 --> 01:54:31,479
the year.

1612
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. Back in the middle

1613
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:39,279
of the paragraph, it says the besieged Nationalist defenders surrender

1614
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:42,920
on January eighth, which allows the civilian populations to be

1615
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:45,560
evacuated through the nationalist line. What do you mean by

1616
01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:46,239
surrender there?

1617
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:51,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so they gave up the last of their toe

1618
01:54:51,039 --> 01:54:53,319
hold in the city. So what they what they did

1619
01:54:53,479 --> 01:54:57,880
is they held a position, They held positions and allowed

1620
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:01,800
the population to retre because they had a connection to

1621
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:07,399
their own lines by having because remember they they secured

1622
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:11,399
all this territory around the outskirts of the city. Uh

1623
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:15,399
so they just pulled out of the city. You know,

1624
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:20,239
these just completely annihilated remnants of the town. You can

1625
01:55:20,319 --> 01:55:24,279
see images of it online. And then the last of

1626
01:55:24,359 --> 01:55:29,960
them that were then in being trapped farther into and encircled,

1627
01:55:30,119 --> 01:55:34,359
you know, within within the town, they surrendered, and then

1628
01:55:34,439 --> 01:55:37,560
the retaking of the town happened. Because what what would

1629
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:41,600
take place is that the Republicans were so focused on

1630
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:45,880
we have to take the town, whereas the nationalists had

1631
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:49,000
this more long term strategic view of what do we

1632
01:55:49,079 --> 01:55:52,479
actually get? So they so they did have a lot

1633
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:56,840
of holdouts that were captured or killed. They wanted the

1634
01:55:56,920 --> 01:56:00,600
population to be able to get out through channels that

1635
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:04,960
they had established with the contact that the Nationalists had

1636
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:07,399
made with them. They didn't have enough forces to Russian

1637
01:56:07,479 --> 01:56:09,800
and it wasn't worth it to try to, you know,

1638
01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:12,159
hold more of the town or fight when they could

1639
01:56:12,199 --> 01:56:19,520
withdraw and then you know, isolate those people. It's interesting.

1640
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:23,560
There's great wiki Wikipedia articles on it with good maps.

1641
01:56:24,800 --> 01:56:28,439
Speaker 1: Oh cool, all right, noe. In February nineteen thirty nine,

1642
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:31,039
one of the last official acts of the Republican government

1643
01:56:31,199 --> 01:56:34,199
is the execution and the commander of the Nationalist Defenders

1644
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:39,319
of Taroyl Ray dark Court, along with the Bishop of

1645
01:56:39,399 --> 01:56:42,720
Taroyl and forty one other heroic prisoners who held out

1646
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:50,720
for so long. Man. Yeah, they just they fucking loved

1647
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:51,640
killing people.

1648
01:56:52,079 --> 01:56:56,119
Speaker 2: That's all they are. Yeah, so you hold out, and

1649
01:56:56,319 --> 01:56:58,840
so what do they do? They hold them. They hold

1650
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:02,199
them as prisoners for while and then and it was

1651
01:57:02,439 --> 01:57:06,600
literally the republic the leadership of the Republican government said

1652
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:07,600
to execute them.

1653
01:57:10,079 --> 01:57:10,880
Speaker 1: Our democracy.

1654
01:57:11,199 --> 01:57:11,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1655
01:57:12,119 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, when it comes down to it, these are the

1656
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:22,880
These are the people that the spiritual brothers and sisters

1657
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:27,600
of the ones that won World War two. Yeah, and yeah,

1658
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:33,319
we been so fucking brainwashed into well, you know, Hitler

1659
01:57:33,439 --> 01:57:35,600
was worse than them. So, you know, it's a good

1660
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:39,119
thing they did. It's a good thing. You know, we

1661
01:57:39,239 --> 01:57:43,359
have to choose, We have to choose one, apparently, so

1662
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:47,159
let's take you know, let's take the ones that brought

1663
01:57:47,239 --> 01:57:51,760
us trans kids and you know, all the fucking ship

1664
01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:54,760
that we put up with. Now, yeah, the spiritual these

1665
01:57:54,800 --> 01:57:57,840
are the spiritual forefathers of everything that we're dealing with now.

1666
01:57:58,199 --> 01:58:04,800
But hey, hey, you know Germany had a problem with.

1667
01:58:04,840 --> 01:58:08,800
Speaker 2: One group, it gets worse.

1668
01:58:13,119 --> 01:58:16,399
Speaker 1: The shift of focus into Aragon underscores Franco's intent to

1669
01:58:16,479 --> 01:58:19,880
ignore Madrid for the time being and instead smashed a

1670
01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:24,159
Spanish Republican army through attrition rather than attempt a knockout blow,

1671
01:58:24,279 --> 01:58:27,960
which frustrates his German and Italian allies that would start,

1672
01:58:28,359 --> 01:58:33,680
though it better serves Franco's goal of cleansing Spain, because.

1673
01:58:33,439 --> 01:58:38,439
Speaker 2: You need a lasting victory, you need a lasting victory. Yeah.

1674
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:43,039
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I was listening to John

1675
01:58:43,199 --> 01:58:47,119
Harris on the Conversations at Matter Podcasts Christian podcast. He

1676
01:58:47,239 --> 01:58:51,640
was interviewing Paul Gottfried today, and you understand why Paul

1677
01:58:51,680 --> 01:58:57,039
Gottfried is ignored, I mean hated by the left, but

1678
01:58:57,199 --> 01:59:01,840
also ignored by the right when he starts talking about solutions. Yeah,

1679
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:04,359
and he says, you know, the only way forward is

1680
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:09,600
the left in this country has to be utterly defeated.

1681
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1682
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:14,880
Speaker 1: There can't be a trace of them left. There can't

1683
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:17,760
be a trace of whatever it is that they're pushing.

1684
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:21,720
And they believe left and there's all on the right,

1685
01:59:21,880 --> 01:59:22,439
can't hear that.

1686
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,920
Speaker 2: There's an interesting thing that takes place nowadays when you

1687
01:59:26,039 --> 01:59:29,720
talk about the Spanish Civil War is there's people that

1688
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:33,439
are upset that Franco didn't just like murder all of them,

1689
01:59:35,279 --> 01:59:38,239
which he wasn't going to do anyway because of his

1690
01:59:38,359 --> 01:59:41,680
religious convictions. This is as close as you're going to get.

1691
01:59:42,199 --> 01:59:45,600
I remember you and I were talking, oh gosh, some

1692
01:59:45,800 --> 01:59:49,359
time ago, and you made a reference to a quote

1693
01:59:49,479 --> 01:59:52,079
that had been attributed to Franco where he said something

1694
01:59:52,239 --> 01:59:55,399
like he was willing to shoot like twenty percent of

1695
01:59:55,479 --> 01:59:57,560
the country or have twenty percent of the country shot

1696
01:59:57,920 --> 02:00:00,560
something like that, And what it was a reference to

1697
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:04,680
is the percentile of hardcore revolutionaries that were in the country.

1698
02:00:05,439 --> 02:00:07,720
And so when you see what happened with the war

1699
02:00:08,199 --> 02:00:10,439
when they turned it into oh, well, you know, we

1700
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:14,359
can resolve this through combat operations, it's this great heat

1701
02:00:14,439 --> 02:00:18,000
sink where all the zelots are going to be fighting

1702
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:21,199
the people who are you know, just kind of along

1703
02:00:21,319 --> 02:00:25,720
because that's the you know, the thing, or because they

1704
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:29,319
get drafted or you know, they're told that it's the norm.

1705
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:32,880
You know, they're not really going to be a problem

1706
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:37,319
in the future and can just be dealt with. They

1707
02:00:37,399 --> 02:00:40,239
can they'll get back to work and so on and

1708
02:00:40,359 --> 02:00:43,800
so forth. But those real enemies were the ones that

1709
02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:49,600
were annihilated, you know, through through combat, and so you

1710
02:00:49,720 --> 02:00:52,359
know it. The main thing with Spain is that it's

1711
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,279
you know, no man is an island, no country is

1712
02:00:55,640 --> 02:01:01,039
completely isolated. You know, the external world moved on. You know,

1713
02:01:01,199 --> 02:01:04,560
the United States State Department sure will little away on

1714
02:01:04,800 --> 02:01:08,760
the Franco government and the likes. So it's one of

1715
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:11,720
those criticisms where they did pretty much the best that

1716
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:14,680
they could. There was no scenario where you get a

1717
02:01:16,159 --> 02:01:20,560
great cleansing that the same people will also accurately state

1718
02:01:21,000 --> 02:01:25,479
did not happen in Germany, but somehow will wish that

1719
02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:28,600
they had done it, or as a critique right of Spain,

1720
02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:30,800
and it's like there was no scenario where that was

1721
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:34,520
going to happen. The outside world wouldn't have allowed it either,

1722
02:01:34,880 --> 02:01:36,159
particularly the British.

1723
02:01:39,079 --> 02:01:42,399
Speaker 1: On March seventh, the Nationalists launched the Aragon Offensive and

1724
02:01:42,520 --> 02:01:48,359
steamroll south through Aragon, eastern Valencia Province and western Catalonia,

1725
02:01:48,560 --> 02:01:51,079
and no small part due to strong support from German,

1726
02:01:51,479 --> 02:01:56,279
Italian and Spanish ground attack aircraft, the beleaguered Republicans are

1727
02:01:56,359 --> 02:01:59,239
slowly mopped up in The Nationalists reached the Mediterranean Sea

1728
02:01:59,319 --> 02:02:03,079
on April fourteenth. By April nineteenth, they controlled thirty seven

1729
02:02:03,159 --> 02:02:07,800
miles sixty kilometers of coastland, and Catalonia has been isolated

1730
02:02:07,880 --> 02:02:09,439
from the rest of the republic.

1731
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:15,680
Speaker 2: And I made that reference to combined arms operations before

1732
02:02:16,399 --> 02:02:19,600
and they were born before, but they really become polished

1733
02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:24,560
in the Oregon offensives. There's really very interesting write ups

1734
02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:30,560
from the German perspective on how they kind of established

1735
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:34,479
the doctrine that we saw a lot of in World

1736
02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:38,000
War Two by the Germans. It was just it was

1737
02:02:38,119 --> 02:02:41,600
really impressive, and it comes down to having more portable

1738
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:47,720
radios and communications between Florid air controller aircraft. I mean,

1739
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:51,760
the United States uses the same doctrine today I'm not

1740
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:53,479
exactly the same, but you know what I mean.

1741
02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 1: Francis government reopens the Spanish frontier March seventeenth and sends

1742
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:03,720
eight eighteen thousand tons of war material into Catalonia, with

1743
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:06,640
a new round of conscription for males aged sixteen and

1744
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:12,479
up and retreating forces consolidated. Catalonia's remaining manpower is organized

1745
02:03:12,520 --> 02:03:18,319
into the Ebro Army. May. The Republican government, defended in

1746
02:03:18,399 --> 02:03:26,399
Valencia behind the impressive xyz Or Maseyana line fortifications ringing

1747
02:03:26,479 --> 02:03:31,159
the city and surrounding Iberian System Mountain range, sues for peace.

1748
02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:35,359
General Franco declines and demands unconditional surrender.

1749
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:41,960
Speaker 2: So they were very impressive defensive fortifications, and they sued

1750
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:45,439
for peace because they knew what a you know, what

1751
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:48,359
a nightmare it would be for the nationalists to try

1752
02:03:48,399 --> 02:03:51,119
to grind through it, and they were trying. They were trying,

1753
02:03:52,399 --> 02:03:54,880
but that wasn't that wasn't going to happen there was.

1754
02:03:55,359 --> 02:03:57,000
It was not going to be a split country.

1755
02:04:00,039 --> 02:04:02,640
Speaker 1: The Battle of the Ebro the fall of the Republic.

1756
02:04:03,600 --> 02:04:07,640
The Nationalists focused upon Valencia hold the Catalonian front along

1757
02:04:07,720 --> 02:04:10,279
the Ebro River with a light complement of units and

1758
02:04:10,399 --> 02:04:15,960
little fortification. Condor Legion reconnaissance flights and Spanish Legion scouts

1759
02:04:16,039 --> 02:04:19,560
on the ground alert Nationalist forces to a Republican troop

1760
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:23,159
build up along the Ebro River. The standard English language

1761
02:04:23,239 --> 02:04:26,840
historians take as the warning went unheeded, but some military

1762
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:30,199
analysts and Spanish sources claim that the resulting assault was

1763
02:04:30,359 --> 02:04:35,479
permitted the night of July fourth. The night of July

1764
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:38,279
twenty fourth through twenty fifth, while the moon is down,

1765
02:04:38,359 --> 02:04:42,840
the Ebro Army, consisting of the fifth and fifteenth Army Corps,

1766
02:04:43,159 --> 02:04:46,479
crosses the Ebro River at low points or via assault boats,

1767
02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:51,079
pontoon bridges, and some established crossings along the river's eastern bulge,

1768
02:04:51,359 --> 02:04:54,960
where Aragon and Catalonia meet a natural border defined by

1769
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:59,279
the river and surrounding mountains at Amposta to the south

1770
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:02,159
near the near the sea, where the river is wider

1771
02:05:02,239 --> 02:05:05,760
and swifter. A secondary assault by the fourteenth International Brigade

1772
02:05:06,119 --> 02:05:10,039
fails after eighteen hours of combat. By July twenty sixth,

1773
02:05:10,119 --> 02:05:13,399
the Northern assault advances three miles west and at the

1774
02:05:13,479 --> 02:05:18,920
Great Eastward Bulge twenty one miles northwest, deep into mountainous territory.

1775
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:24,479
Nationalists reinforcements sweep in with eight divisions and more than

1776
02:05:24,520 --> 02:05:26,920
two hundred and forty aircraft to encircle and hold the

1777
02:05:27,039 --> 02:05:31,159
oncoming Republican troops, driving them off the navigable roads and

1778
02:05:31,199 --> 02:05:35,880
destroying their vehicles. Republican infantry and tanks arrive via the

1779
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:38,960
Northern route on the outskirts of their target, the town

1780
02:05:39,039 --> 02:05:42,439
of Gondesa, a great crossroads by which they hope to

1781
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:46,439
break through the narrow national assilient and reach Republican territory

1782
02:05:46,560 --> 02:05:51,399
to the west. Their ultimate delusion, you comment, delusional goal.

1783
02:05:53,039 --> 02:05:56,159
It's to either secure concessions by forcing the surrender of

1784
02:05:56,279 --> 02:06:00,479
trapped nationalist forces along the coastline, or to reinforce Madrid

1785
02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:03,640
and hold that fort for international support.

1786
02:06:04,000 --> 02:06:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely delusional. They were. They were cut off from

1787
02:06:08,199 --> 02:06:14,319
the Valencia. Valencia was not quite encircled, but the eastern, eastern,

1788
02:06:14,399 --> 02:06:21,039
and northern areas where were very heavily fortified. Not fortified,

1789
02:06:21,119 --> 02:06:25,520
but surrounded by nationalist troops who were attacking. The breakout

1790
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:29,479
was very ill conceived, and so what looking at a map,

1791
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:33,159
there's essentially this bulge that I describe where you could

1792
02:06:33,159 --> 02:06:36,000
see at the farthest westernmost point they made it about

1793
02:06:36,039 --> 02:06:39,079
three miles and then going up, if you count going

1794
02:06:39,159 --> 02:06:43,560
up through the bulge, twenty one miles northwest. So again

1795
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:46,840
they're trapped in the mountains in this little tiny point

1796
02:06:47,439 --> 02:06:50,359
with hundreds of thousands of men there, and it's just

1797
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:57,800
a horrifically idiotic attempt, last attempt for an assault.

1798
02:06:59,399 --> 02:07:02,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, people should understand. Books have been written just about this.

1799
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:04,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

1800
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:07,600
Speaker 1: The action in my novel, like one of the most

1801
02:07:07,640 --> 02:07:12,439
pivotal points takes place during this operation, just because it's

1802
02:07:13,319 --> 02:07:16,720
so incredibly interesting and it's very scenic and beautiful.

1803
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:20,199
Speaker 2: Too down there, they.

1804
02:07:20,119 --> 02:07:23,680
Speaker 1: Are too late. General Franco orders the Ebro River dams

1805
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:28,159
at Tremp and Camarasa open. The deluge takes the Republican

1806
02:07:28,239 --> 02:07:30,920
pontoon boats out of action for four days, and the

1807
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:33,720
bridge's supply lines and truck depots along the river are

1808
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:37,760
bombed and straighted by Nationalist aviation, while trucks make it

1809
02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:41,239
across the bridges toewing artillery and transporting troops. They are

1810
02:07:41,359 --> 02:07:44,439
not able to establish supply lines back across the river

1811
02:07:44,840 --> 02:07:47,720
and are destroyed in great numbers, as are the supporting

1812
02:07:47,800 --> 02:07:50,640
gun batteries and supply depots on the eastern side of

1813
02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:54,640
the river. Only twenty two tanks and a small number

1814
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:58,800
of artillery pieces had crossed the Ebro, and nearly eighty

1815
02:07:58,920 --> 02:08:02,479
thousand Republican troops now trapped west of the river have

1816
02:08:02,680 --> 02:08:05,439
only the supplies they can carry to survive in the

1817
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:10,319
heat of the Spanish summer. Republican engineers focus upon restoring

1818
02:08:10,359 --> 02:08:13,319
their pontoon bridges every night, only for them to be

1819
02:08:13,399 --> 02:08:16,840
destroyed the next day, and within a few days Republican

1820
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,520
forces are completely trapped within the pocket and cut off

1821
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:22,760
from their supply lines across the river. Not that they

1822
02:08:22,760 --> 02:08:26,319
would have been permitted to retreat, to the communist leadership,

1823
02:08:26,399 --> 02:08:29,680
desperate for the propaganda value of a decisive victory, only

1824
02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:34,600
attack was permitted. And you put lol, Well, I mean.

1825
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:38,520
Speaker 2: It's insane, but they were basically like, do not come back,

1826
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:41,680
or we'll shoot at you. There were several points where

1827
02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:47,039
that was made. They relaxed that later on after they

1828
02:08:47,119 --> 02:08:52,239
got spanked so badly, But it's really just insane and

1829
02:08:52,319 --> 02:08:56,119
shows who you're talking about. There was no strategic value

1830
02:08:56,239 --> 02:09:01,399
or chance of the succeeding. Just completely delusional. And that's

1831
02:09:01,479 --> 02:09:07,439
where the that's where the argument about the attack probably

1832
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:12,520
being somewhat allowed to happen, you know, versus it being

1833
02:09:12,640 --> 02:09:16,359
such a big surprise, because I mean, it's one of

1834
02:09:16,399 --> 02:09:19,720
those things that people will debate forever, you know, but

1835
02:09:20,119 --> 02:09:24,720
it it just seems so such an obviously stupid operation.

1836
02:09:26,199 --> 02:09:32,079
But they, you know, thanks to you know, aviation surveillance

1837
02:09:32,119 --> 02:09:34,359
and the like, you know, plenty knew that it was

1838
02:09:34,439 --> 02:09:35,000
going to happen.

1839
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:42,359
Speaker 1: Republican forces never breakthrough, and said Agandessa, and suffer heavy

1840
02:09:42,439 --> 02:09:46,479
casualties as it's outskirts and hills immediately overlooking the town.

1841
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:51,560
Thanks to the season, Nationalist militaries combined arms attack. By August,

1842
02:09:51,640 --> 02:09:53,920
most of the Republic's aircraft are swept from the sky

1843
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:58,039
and the Nationalists achieved total air superiority. The first Nationalist

1844
02:09:58,119 --> 02:10:02,119
counter offensive is launched against a small northernmost pocket near Fayon,

1845
02:10:02,920 --> 02:10:06,560
which drives entrenched Republicans across the river at a loss

1846
02:10:06,600 --> 02:10:09,479
of nine hundred men and two hundred precious brand new

1847
02:10:09,600 --> 02:10:13,439
machine guns. The next day, August eleventh, the Nationalist drive

1848
02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:17,520
into the Pandul's mountain range and capture much of the

1849
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:21,439
high ground. The Ebro dams are opened again, destroying the

1850
02:10:21,479 --> 02:10:25,199
remaining pontoon bridges, and six Nationalist divisions sweep into the

1851
02:10:25,279 --> 02:10:29,960
height heights of Geta over five days of fighting. At

1852
02:10:30,000 --> 02:10:33,960
this point, Franco's ally, Mussolini, fingers clenched no doubt in

1853
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:36,800
a rude gesture, states to Franco does not know how

1854
02:10:36,840 --> 02:10:40,760
to make war and doesn't want to, unlike Malit Mussolini

1855
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:44,800
and you put too soon. Franco's strategy secures peace in

1856
02:10:44,840 --> 02:10:47,760
his country for nearly forty years, as the enemies of

1857
02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:50,720
Spain are blasted a machine gun in the mountains over

1858
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:54,600
the next three months. On September twenty first, the International Brigades,

1859
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:57,039
so those who are still alive, throw their hands up

1860
02:10:57,079 --> 02:11:00,760
and formally withdraw from Spain, having sustained twenty five percent

1861
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:04,560
fatalities in their two years in Spain. Is that s

1862
02:11:04,680 --> 02:11:05,079
for Spit?

1863
02:11:05,399 --> 02:11:10,920
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, okay, that yeah, yeah, that was the operation.

1864
02:11:12,039 --> 02:11:16,640
The International Brigades were always used as shock troops, if

1865
02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:20,000
you'll recall in that the very first like two days

1866
02:11:20,239 --> 02:11:24,479
of one of their units getting to Madrid, they had

1867
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:28,720
something like twenty five percent fatalities or casualties in two days.

1868
02:11:29,600 --> 02:11:32,560
They were always the ones thrown into the assault because

1869
02:11:32,640 --> 02:11:38,760
they were under basically under command of Soviet fanatics, Communist

1870
02:11:39,359 --> 02:11:44,640
commissars and officers who saw them as completely disposable. It

1871
02:11:44,840 --> 02:11:51,560
was international Bolshevism, you know, just taking their lives and

1872
02:11:52,039 --> 02:11:56,079
throwing them into this fight. The very end of them

1873
02:11:56,359 --> 02:12:00,800
was the Battle of the Ebro, and they just the leadership.

1874
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:04,319
They were completely broken by this. No there was no

1875
02:12:04,439 --> 02:12:08,159
way that they could get more people to volunteer. They

1876
02:12:08,199 --> 02:12:10,920
couldn't get people to go back. They were if you

1877
02:12:11,039 --> 02:12:14,680
read any of the records written in the memoirs written

1878
02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:19,279
by those people who I do not speak of in

1879
02:12:19,399 --> 02:12:24,760
high esteem, they were just completely shattered by this. It

1880
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:28,479
was stupid and they just got annihilated.

1881
02:12:31,199 --> 02:12:34,159
Speaker 1: By November sixteenth, the last Republican forces on the right

1882
02:12:34,239 --> 02:12:40,560
bank of the Ebro escape at Flicks. Both sides suffer

1883
02:12:40,640 --> 02:12:43,880
massive casualties in the Battle of Ebro. Although the figures

1884
02:12:43,920 --> 02:12:47,600
are difficult to estimate, it's likely that Republican casualties number

1885
02:12:47,680 --> 02:12:51,680
seventy five thousand, with thirty thousand dead. Additionally, the majority

1886
02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:54,560
of the military relevant arms in Catalonia are lost in

1887
02:12:54,640 --> 02:12:59,079
the battle. The Nationalists too, take approximately sixty thousand casualties,

1888
02:12:59,479 --> 02:13:03,039
though almost certainly fewer than ten thousand dead. But among

1889
02:13:03,119 --> 02:13:06,319
them are their very best frontline officers, and their armor

1890
02:13:06,399 --> 02:13:09,760
and trucks are severely worn out from the tempo of

1891
02:13:09,880 --> 02:13:11,960
mountain maneuver and combat.

1892
02:13:12,319 --> 02:13:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that can't be understated, just because again, these are

1893
02:13:17,920 --> 02:13:24,119
hardened veterans that had mastered these combined arms operations rapid response.

1894
02:13:24,279 --> 02:13:29,159
They were just worn out. So things get quiet for

1895
02:13:29,239 --> 02:13:31,840
a while while everyone kind of retools.

1896
02:13:34,479 --> 02:13:37,399
Speaker 1: The Condor Legion withdraws most of its ground forces from

1897
02:13:37,439 --> 02:13:39,920
the field and shifts a significant portion of their air

1898
02:13:40,039 --> 02:13:45,119
crews to Germany due to tensions in Czechoslovakia. There we go, yep.

1899
02:13:46,840 --> 02:13:50,279
German A's German aid is paused in mid September as

1900
02:13:50,399 --> 02:13:55,119
Germany and Spain negotiate compensation. They settle upon granting Germany

1901
02:13:55,159 --> 02:13:59,920
an interest in the output of Spanish minds. New aircraft,

1902
02:14:00,079 --> 02:14:03,119
the BF one O nine ease, H E one eleven

1903
02:14:03,199 --> 02:14:07,359
EA's and j's and HS one twenty six a's reinforce

1904
02:14:07,520 --> 02:14:09,920
the Legion and enable it to close out the war

1905
02:14:10,039 --> 02:14:13,319
in a primary aviation role, and the older equipment is

1906
02:14:13,399 --> 02:14:17,319
sold to Spain during the legion before the legion returns

1907
02:14:17,359 --> 02:14:19,600
to Germany in May nineteen thirty nine.

1908
02:14:20,039 --> 02:14:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all of the most modern German equipment is

1909
02:14:24,359 --> 02:14:30,359
being proven in combat, but is then handed off to

1910
02:14:30,479 --> 02:14:35,600
the Spanish. Sold to the Spanish because again like there's

1911
02:14:35,680 --> 02:14:38,439
more coming out of German factories and the latest and

1912
02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:43,399
greatest is always coming and they're iterating based on their

1913
02:14:43,960 --> 02:14:47,000
operational observations in Spain.

1914
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:52,800
Speaker 1: After rest repair and restructuring, fresh troops are brought in

1915
02:14:52,960 --> 02:14:58,880
for the invasion of Catalonia in late December nineteen thirty nine.

1916
02:15:00,079 --> 02:15:03,199
He was captured against hardly any resistance. By early February,

1917
02:15:03,680 --> 02:15:06,800
hundreds of thousands of Spanish refugees crowded the camps in

1918
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:11,960
southern France. February twenty seventh, the UK and France formally

1919
02:15:12,039 --> 02:15:17,680
recognized the Franco government. March fifth, the Republican Army rises

1920
02:15:17,720 --> 02:15:23,000
against the Prime Minister Nagrin and forms the National Defense

1921
02:15:23,119 --> 02:15:27,640
Council to negotiate peace with Franco Communist troops in Madrid,

1922
02:15:27,680 --> 02:15:30,520
attempts to continue the war or squashed in street fighting

1923
02:15:30,600 --> 02:15:36,479
by their former allies. March twenty sixth, the Nationalists advanced

1924
02:15:36,520 --> 02:15:41,560
from all sides towards Madrid. March twenty eighth. Madrid surrenders

1925
02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:47,560
almost bloodlessly. March thirty first, the Nationalists control all Spanish territory.

1926
02:15:48,920 --> 02:15:54,279
April first, Franco proclaims legera s alfinale the war is

1927
02:15:54,319 --> 02:15:57,159
at its end after accepting the surrender of the last

1928
02:15:57,359 --> 02:16:06,359
Republican forces. The cost combat dead figures vary but range

1929
02:16:06,399 --> 02:16:09,640
between one hundred and fifty and two hundred thousand killed

1930
02:16:09,680 --> 02:16:19,159
in action on both sides, both sides. Ramon Salas Larnzabal

1931
02:16:19,800 --> 02:16:24,680
Laranzabal authoritative nineteen seventy seven study calculates one hundred and

1932
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:28,920
sixty five thousand, three hundred and sixty seven total combat dead.

1933
02:16:29,239 --> 02:16:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lorenzo bal is very interesting. There's several websites online

1934
02:16:36,799 --> 02:16:41,879
with his with his records and methodology in them, his

1935
02:16:42,079 --> 02:16:45,959
sources for everything. He used every source that he could

1936
02:16:46,040 --> 02:16:51,719
find and went through Spanish records, just an exhausting minutia.

1937
02:16:52,399 --> 02:16:55,319
And he also compared it to pre war and post

1938
02:16:55,399 --> 02:16:59,559
war numbers where he wasn't like one hundred percent sure.

1939
02:17:00,200 --> 02:17:02,159
So when you when you talk about the cost of

1940
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:07,719
the war, it's a big topic, and so he's pretty

1941
02:17:07,799 --> 02:17:11,760
much the best source that I've seen and what keeps happening,

1942
02:17:11,840 --> 02:17:13,440
and I think we talked about this a little bit

1943
02:17:13,559 --> 02:17:18,159
last time, is that, you know, the during this truth

1944
02:17:18,239 --> 02:17:23,399
and reconciliation regime that's taking place in Spain, they'll say, oh, well,

1945
02:17:23,479 --> 02:17:25,159
we think that these are you know, we're going to

1946
02:17:25,239 --> 02:17:28,799
lean on what the Republican numbers were, and then as

1947
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:31,600
they actually go through and reconcile it, it just squares

1948
02:17:31,719 --> 02:17:35,559
up with the numbers that Lronzepaul put together, you know,

1949
02:17:36,159 --> 02:17:37,280
almost fifty years ago.

1950
02:17:37,799 --> 02:17:43,280
Speaker 1: So I think most people would be if you look

1951
02:17:43,280 --> 02:17:46,559
at that number, one hundred and sixty five thousand in

1952
02:17:47,479 --> 02:17:51,520
just a civil war in Spain, yeah, in Europe, in

1953
02:17:51,639 --> 02:17:57,959
Europe in the twentieth century, that's I mean world War

1954
02:17:58,079 --> 02:18:01,959
two obviously we don't could be forty million, could be

1955
02:18:02,079 --> 02:18:06,680
twenty million. Yeah, yeah, it's impossible to tell. But this

1956
02:18:07,000 --> 02:18:09,200
warm up, I mean, this is basically you know, what

1957
02:18:09,479 --> 02:18:11,200
I like to refer to as World War one and

1958
02:18:11,239 --> 02:18:14,639
a half is just absolute insanity.

1959
02:18:15,399 --> 02:18:21,520
Speaker 2: And the total population from zero to one hundred right

1960
02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:26,399
of Spain at the time was about twenty five million. Yeah.

1961
02:18:29,479 --> 02:18:35,680
Speaker 1: Executions and murders sALS. Lorenzobal calculates that from nineteen thirty

1962
02:18:35,719 --> 02:18:38,159
six to nineteen thirty nine that were seventy two thousand,

1963
02:18:38,200 --> 02:18:42,600
three hundred and forty four non combat executions and murders

1964
02:18:42,719 --> 02:18:47,559
in Republican territory. In National Spain from nineteen thirty six

1965
02:18:47,639 --> 02:18:50,440
to nineteen fifty the figure was fifty seven thousand, six

1966
02:18:50,559 --> 02:18:53,840
hundred and sixty two, with sixteen thousand, seven hundred and

1967
02:18:53,920 --> 02:18:58,479
sixty three judicially governed executions in the first two years

1968
02:18:58,559 --> 02:19:00,879
of the war and five and eight hundred and seventy

1969
02:19:00,879 --> 02:19:05,639
eight more over the next ten years. Non hysterical academics

1970
02:19:05,680 --> 02:19:07,959
such as Bevore use these figures.

1971
02:19:08,159 --> 02:19:13,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very important because, like you notice, I made

1972
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:20,559
a distinction the Nationalists, there were just like executions and murders,

1973
02:19:22,120 --> 02:19:27,719
you know, with no judicial procedure, and then there were

1974
02:19:27,760 --> 02:19:33,159
pretty severe judicial procedure numbers that followed. But again, these

1975
02:19:33,200 --> 02:19:37,559
are being carried out against the people that largely committed

1976
02:19:37,639 --> 02:19:42,559
these atrocities on the other side. So it's like if

1977
02:19:42,639 --> 02:19:45,440
you find someone that murdered ten people and you shoot

1978
02:19:45,520 --> 02:19:50,840
him after a fair trial, that's a number that's here.

1979
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:58,520
Speaker 1: But like good right, yeah, yeah, additional civilian dead again,

1980
02:19:58,680 --> 02:20:03,840
per so Lorenz taking into account demographic comparisons over long

1981
02:20:03,879 --> 02:20:08,079
stretches of time to exclude projected deaths due to natural causes, accidents,

1982
02:20:08,559 --> 02:20:12,639
typical losses from disease, et cetera, and verified against documented

1983
02:20:12,760 --> 02:20:16,200
wartime records, he arrives at an excess loss of three

1984
02:20:16,319 --> 02:20:20,719
hundred thousand civilian lives due to disease, hunger, lack of medicine,

1985
02:20:20,799 --> 02:20:26,440
et cetera, which would have been avoidable in peacetime. Interestingly,

1986
02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:30,239
nineteen thirty five under the Republic had significantly elevated death

1987
02:20:30,319 --> 02:20:33,799
due to hunger and disease in southern Spain, likely related

1988
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:38,959
to the disruption caused by land reform and resulting poor harvests. Interestingly,

1989
02:20:39,120 --> 02:20:43,879
Ciles Lorenzebal notes that the otherwise expected five hundred and

1990
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:47,239
fifty seven one hundred and eighty five children calculated to

1991
02:20:47,399 --> 02:20:50,959
not having been born during the war years hurt Spanish

1992
02:20:51,040 --> 02:20:54,600
demographics far worse than the losses from all other causes.

1993
02:20:55,079 --> 02:20:58,479
Speaker 2: And so if you think about what that means when

1994
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:05,000
you talk about unjust like, look at our situation demographically

1995
02:21:05,079 --> 02:21:09,559
in America right now. You have crime, elevated crime and

1996
02:21:09,760 --> 02:21:15,680
murder right you have massive suicide, drug overdoses, deaths related

1997
02:21:15,719 --> 02:21:19,440
to that deaths of despair right Think of all the

1998
02:21:19,520 --> 02:21:22,799
people that are that are not having children right now

1999
02:21:23,479 --> 02:21:27,200
because of the hell that a certain group of people

2000
02:21:27,840 --> 02:21:30,559
are pushing on us and what that does to us

2001
02:21:30,680 --> 02:21:37,040
and our strength. So when you get revenge, theoretically, lawfully, legally,

2002
02:21:38,079 --> 02:21:41,760
keep that in mind as well. We should have double

2003
02:21:41,840 --> 02:21:42,799
the numbers that we have.

2004
02:21:46,680 --> 02:21:50,559
Speaker 1: Refugees, excluding those who fled Spain of their own accord

2005
02:21:50,639 --> 02:21:54,120
before or during the war. About five hundred thousand Spanish

2006
02:21:54,200 --> 02:21:57,040
became refugees in the final days of the war, with

2007
02:21:57,159 --> 02:22:00,280
four hundred and fifty thousand fleeing Catalonia for France in

2008
02:22:00,399 --> 02:22:04,760
February nineteen thirty nine. The French separated military age men

2009
02:22:04,840 --> 02:22:09,559
from the civilians and established open air internment camps. Over time,

2010
02:22:09,680 --> 02:22:14,120
refugees were redistributed to different facilities. About three hundred thousand

2011
02:22:14,159 --> 02:22:17,040
refugees returned to Spain within a few months, where they

2012
02:22:17,079 --> 02:22:20,559
were sorted by the Franco regime between innocent civilians and

2013
02:22:20,600 --> 02:22:25,120
those destined for internment camps, labor battalions or prisons. These

2014
02:22:25,200 --> 02:22:28,239
returnees were handled according to their role in the war,

2015
02:22:28,879 --> 02:22:32,639
with those who committed atrocities executed, while mere participants in

2016
02:22:32,719 --> 02:22:36,959
the war, draftees and generic leftists saw their sentences quickly commuted.

2017
02:22:37,719 --> 02:22:40,360
About thirty thousand of the refugees who remained in France

2018
02:22:40,440 --> 02:22:43,879
soon emigrated to Latin America, with most going to Mexico.

2019
02:22:44,319 --> 02:22:46,200
One hundred and sixty to one hundred and eighty thousand

2020
02:22:46,280 --> 02:22:50,200
remained in France and labor battalions. Thousands of communists and

2021
02:22:50,319 --> 02:22:53,879
anarchist militants enjoyed the hospitality of the concentration camps of

2022
02:22:53,920 --> 02:22:58,159
the Vishi and German governments. The Soviet Union accepted a

2023
02:22:58,200 --> 02:23:02,280
few thousand prominent republicans communists, but not the Hoi POLLOI.

2024
02:23:04,520 --> 02:23:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I remember you were talking about Mexico last time. Yep,

2025
02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:15,920
that's that. Mexican government brought in quite a few of

2026
02:23:16,040 --> 02:23:23,360
these refugees, and most of the anarchists from Catalonia ended

2027
02:23:23,440 --> 02:23:27,719
up in Mexico. I mean, take that with a grain

2028
02:23:27,760 --> 02:23:31,360
of salt. But of the ones who wrote memoirs, an

2029
02:23:31,360 --> 02:23:34,159
awful lot of them ended up coming back to France,

2030
02:23:34,440 --> 02:23:38,319
you know, after World War Two, or just stayed in Mexico.

2031
02:23:38,520 --> 02:23:43,600
But huge numbers of those kind of apparatchicks and members

2032
02:23:43,680 --> 02:23:47,280
of the government and talking heads who could not go

2033
02:23:47,479 --> 02:23:52,399
back to Spain under Fronco ended up in Mexico.

2034
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, wonder how many of them went and said hello

2035
02:23:57,559 --> 02:23:58,520
to mister Trotsky.

2036
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:01,440
Speaker 2: An awful lot of them.

2037
02:24:04,799 --> 02:24:09,959
Speaker 1: April fourteenth, Pious the twelfth addresses the Spanish faithful with

2038
02:24:10,120 --> 02:24:14,000
immense joy. With great joy, we address you, most dear

2039
02:24:14,079 --> 02:24:17,280
children of Catholic Spain, to address to you our fatherly

2040
02:24:17,399 --> 02:24:20,360
congratulations for the gift of peace and a victory with

2041
02:24:20,520 --> 02:24:24,000
which God is deemed worthy to crown the Christian heroism

2042
02:24:24,079 --> 02:24:26,680
of your faith and charity tried in so many and

2043
02:24:26,879 --> 02:24:32,159
so generous sufferings. Our Predecessor, a venerable memory, expected, with

2044
02:24:32,319 --> 02:24:36,079
longing and trust, this providential peace, which is undoubtedly the

2045
02:24:36,159 --> 02:24:38,840
fruit of that copious blessing which he sent in the

2046
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:41,440
very beginning of the struggle to all those who have

2047
02:24:41,520 --> 02:24:45,680
devoted themselves to the difficult and dangerous task of defending

2048
02:24:45,719 --> 02:24:48,120
and restoring the rights and honor of God and religion.

2049
02:24:48,639 --> 02:24:50,760
And we do not doubt that this space shall be

2050
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:54,600
the one that he himself foretold. Since then the sign

2051
02:24:54,680 --> 02:24:57,639
of a future of tranquility and order, and of honor

2052
02:24:57,840 --> 02:25:02,079
and prosperity is kinds of providence. Most beloved children have

2053
02:25:02,200 --> 02:25:05,760
once again dawned over. Heroic Spain, the nation chosen by

2054
02:25:05,840 --> 02:25:08,440
God as the main instrument of the evangelization of the

2055
02:25:08,520 --> 02:25:11,799
new world and as an impregnable fortress of the Catholic Faith,

2056
02:25:11,920 --> 02:25:15,639
has just shown to the apostles of materialistic atheism of

2057
02:25:15,760 --> 02:25:18,520
our century the greatest evidence that the eternal values of

2058
02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:22,479
religion and of the Spirit stand above all things. The

2059
02:25:22,559 --> 02:25:25,760
tenacious propaganda and the constant efforts of the enemies of

2060
02:25:25,840 --> 02:25:28,920
Jesus Christ seem to have desired to try in Spain

2061
02:25:29,079 --> 02:25:32,200
a supreme experiment of the dissolving forces which they have

2062
02:25:32,719 --> 02:25:35,319
at their disposal throughout the world. And even though it

2063
02:25:35,440 --> 02:25:38,399
is true that the Almighty has for now not allowed

2064
02:25:38,399 --> 02:25:41,319
them to achieve their goal, he has at least tolerated

2065
02:25:41,360 --> 02:25:44,120
some of their terrible effects, so that the world could

2066
02:25:44,159 --> 02:25:48,760
see how religious persecution, undermining the very basis of justice

2067
02:25:48,799 --> 02:25:51,799
and charity, which are love for God and respect for

2068
02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:56,440
His Holy Law, may drag modern society's unthinkable abysses of evil,

2069
02:25:56,520 --> 02:26:00,440
destruction and passionate discord fements of this truth. The same

2070
02:26:00,520 --> 02:26:03,840
Spanish people, with the two marks characteristic of their most

2071
02:26:03,920 --> 02:26:07,559
noble spirit, which your generosity and frankness rose up determinedly

2072
02:26:08,319 --> 02:26:11,840
in defense of the ideals of Christian faith and civilization,

2073
02:26:12,079 --> 02:26:15,120
deeply rooted in the Spanish soil, and aided by God

2074
02:26:15,520 --> 02:26:18,879
who does not abandon those who hope in Him, could

2075
02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:23,000
resist the push as Judah thirteen and seventeen. Sorry, Protestants

2076
02:26:23,479 --> 02:26:26,719
could resist a push for those who deceived by what

2077
02:26:26,879 --> 02:26:30,360
they believed to be a humanitarian ideal of the exultation

2078
02:26:30,520 --> 02:26:35,520
of the meek, truly fought only for atheism. Yes, the

2079
02:26:35,639 --> 02:26:39,559
primordial mean, the primordial meaning of your victory makes us

2080
02:26:39,639 --> 02:26:42,760
dwell in the most promising hopes that God, in his mercy,

2081
02:26:42,840 --> 02:26:46,559
will will deign lead Spain from the safe path through

2082
02:26:46,600 --> 02:26:50,200
the safe path of His traditional and Catholic grandeur, which

2083
02:26:50,239 --> 02:26:54,000
will be the point that will guide all Spaniards who

2084
02:26:54,079 --> 02:26:56,920
love their religion and their fatherland in an effort to

2085
02:26:57,079 --> 02:27:00,079
organize the life of the nation in perfect harmony with

2086
02:27:00,159 --> 02:27:04,079
its most noble history of Catholic faith, piety, and civilization.

2087
02:27:05,760 --> 02:27:08,680
We thus exhort the authorities and shepherds of Catholic Spain

2088
02:27:08,760 --> 02:27:11,680
who enlighten the mind of those who were deceived, showing

2089
02:27:11,760 --> 02:27:16,239
them lovingly the roots of materialism and secularism from which

2090
02:27:16,280 --> 02:27:19,559
their errors and wrongful acts came forth, and from which

2091
02:27:19,600 --> 02:27:23,159
they could spring forth again proposed to them the principles

2092
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:26,680
of individual and social justice, without which the peace and

2093
02:27:26,799 --> 02:27:30,760
prosperity of nations, as mighty as they may be, cannot subsist,

2094
02:27:30,920 --> 02:27:33,520
and which are those contained in the Holy Gospel and

2095
02:27:33,920 --> 02:27:38,760
the doctrine of the Church. We do not doubt that

2096
02:27:38,959 --> 02:27:42,040
it will happen. Thus, and the basis for our firm

2097
02:27:42,200 --> 02:27:45,639
hope are the most noble and Christian sentiments of which

2098
02:27:45,719 --> 02:27:48,959
the Chief of State and so many gentlemen his faithful collaborators,

2099
02:27:49,319 --> 02:27:54,840
have given unequivocal, unequivocal evidence, with the legal protection which

2100
02:27:54,920 --> 02:27:57,920
they have granted to the supreme religious and social interests

2101
02:27:57,959 --> 02:28:01,440
according to the teachings of the Apostolic Sis see The

2102
02:28:01,559 --> 02:28:04,719
same hope is also founded upon the enlightened zeal and

2103
02:28:05,479 --> 02:28:09,760
abnegation of your bishops and priests, tempered by pain, and

2104
02:28:09,920 --> 02:28:13,000
also in the faith, piety, and spirit of sacrifice, of

2105
02:28:13,159 --> 02:28:16,719
which in terrible hours all classes of Spanish society gave

2106
02:28:16,840 --> 02:28:20,479
heroic proof. And now before the remembrance of the mounting

2107
02:28:20,600 --> 02:28:22,920
ruins of the bloodiest civil war recorded in the history

2108
02:28:22,920 --> 02:28:26,639
of modern times, we with prize regard bow our head

2109
02:28:26,799 --> 02:28:29,440
above all to the holy memory of the bishops, priests,

2110
02:28:29,520 --> 02:28:33,479
religious of both sexes, and faithful of all ages and conditions, who,

2111
02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:37,120
in such an elevated number sealed with blood their faith

2112
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:39,639
in Jesus Christ and their love for the Catholic of

2113
02:28:39,680 --> 02:28:46,959
religion major ofm hac deliction, I haven't taken a lot

2114
02:28:48,319 --> 02:28:54,479
habetfo habet greater love than this, no man hath John

2115
02:28:54,559 --> 02:29:00,479
fifteen thirteen. We also acknowledge our debt of gratitude towards

2116
02:29:00,559 --> 02:29:04,680
all those who sacrifice themselves, even under heroism, in defense

2117
02:29:04,719 --> 02:29:07,639
of the unalienable rights of God and of religion, either

2118
02:29:07,719 --> 02:29:10,360
in the battlefields or devoted to the sublime work of

2119
02:29:10,479 --> 02:29:14,280
Christian charity in prisons and hospitals. We cannot hide the

2120
02:29:14,280 --> 02:29:17,280
bitter sorrow that the remembrance of so many innocent children, who,

2121
02:29:17,799 --> 02:29:19,920
having been ripped from their homes, were taken to far

2122
02:29:20,000 --> 02:29:23,879
away lands, often in danger of apostasy and perversion. We

2123
02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:26,520
desire nothing more ardently than to see them return to

2124
02:29:26,600 --> 02:29:29,079
the bosom of their families, where they will once again

2125
02:29:29,200 --> 02:29:32,399
find the warm and Christian tenderness of their own. And

2126
02:29:32,520 --> 02:29:35,440
those others who, as prodigal sons, wish to return to

2127
02:29:35,520 --> 02:29:37,840
the house of the Father, we doubt not they will

2128
02:29:37,840 --> 02:29:41,440
be welcomed with goodwill and love. It falls upon you,

2129
02:29:41,680 --> 02:29:46,959
venerable brothers of the Episcopate Episcopate, to advise all, so

2130
02:29:47,120 --> 02:29:50,680
that in their policy of pacification, all will follow the

2131
02:29:50,719 --> 02:29:53,520
principles taught by the Church, and proclaim with such nobility

2132
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:57,879
by the General Lissimo general Liismo, of justice for crime

2133
02:29:58,120 --> 02:30:03,319
and of lenient generosity for the mistas taken our solicitude, also,

2134
02:30:03,399 --> 02:30:06,879
as a father cannot forget these deceived ones, whom a

2135
02:30:07,000 --> 02:30:12,559
deceitful and perverse propaganda succeeded in enticing with praise and promises.

2136
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:16,959
Your pastoral solicitude should be targeted at them with patience

2137
02:30:17,040 --> 02:30:20,000
and meekness, Pray for them, seek them, lead them again

2138
02:30:20,079 --> 02:30:22,319
to the regenerative bosom of the Church and to the

2139
02:30:22,399 --> 02:30:25,079
warmth of the fatherland, and lead them to the merciful

2140
02:30:25,120 --> 02:30:29,399
Father who awaits them with open arms. Therefore, most dear children,

2141
02:30:29,479 --> 02:30:31,719
says the rainbow of Peace, as returned to brighten the

2142
02:30:31,719 --> 02:30:34,520
heavens of Spain. Let us come together heartily in a

2143
02:30:34,600 --> 02:30:37,319
fervent hymn of thanksgiving to the God of Peace, and

2144
02:30:37,440 --> 02:30:40,200
in a prayer of forgiveness and mercy for all those

2145
02:30:40,239 --> 02:30:43,200
who perished, And in order that this peace be fruitful

2146
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:46,520
and long lasting, we exhort you with all the fervor

2147
02:30:46,680 --> 02:30:49,600
of our heart to keep the unity of the Spirit

2148
02:30:49,680 --> 02:30:53,680
in the bond of peace. Ephesians four two through three. Thus, united,

2149
02:30:53,680 --> 02:30:59,840
in obedient to your venerable Episcopate, Episcopate, devote yourselves joyfully

2150
02:31:00,120 --> 02:31:02,840
and with no delay to the urgent work of reconstruction,

2151
02:31:03,319 --> 02:31:06,319
which God and the Fatherland expect from you. As a

2152
02:31:06,360 --> 02:31:09,239
pledge of the copious graces which the Immaculate Virgin and

2153
02:31:09,319 --> 02:31:12,840
Saint James, the apostle patrons of Spain shall obtain for you,

2154
02:31:13,399 --> 02:31:15,840
and which the great Spanish Saints have merited for you,

2155
02:31:16,120 --> 02:31:19,440
we bestow upon you, our dear children of Catholic Spain,

2156
02:31:19,559 --> 02:31:22,360
upon the Chief of State and his illustrious government, upon

2157
02:31:22,399 --> 02:31:27,520
the zealous Episcopate and their selfless clergy, upon the heroic combatants,

2158
02:31:27,680 --> 02:31:32,159
and upon all the faithful Apostolic blessing pious to twelfth

2159
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:36,520
Paxing Christe Victoria eterna Amen.

2160
02:31:38,319 --> 02:31:43,520
Speaker 2: And I had to close it with that, because after

2161
02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:46,239
you look at all the numbers, after you hear about

2162
02:31:46,719 --> 02:31:52,280
just brutal combat all over the whole country. Spain was

2163
02:31:52,319 --> 02:31:56,159
a smoking hole in the ground. Spain wasn't in a

2164
02:31:56,280 --> 02:31:59,360
position to do anything other than what they did, which

2165
02:31:59,440 --> 02:32:04,440
is to buy down and dig their way out, you know,

2166
02:32:04,799 --> 02:32:11,319
establish or or continue relationships with countries that they had

2167
02:32:11,399 --> 02:32:18,920
good relationships with, and you know, do do what they could.

2168
02:32:19,799 --> 02:32:23,239
They weren't in a position to you know, get involved

2169
02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:26,639
in another war, nor was there an appetite for it.

2170
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:30,959
There were there were volunteers. There were quite heroic volunteers

2171
02:32:31,040 --> 02:32:35,680
for the Blue Division, but they were volunteers. They were

2172
02:32:36,000 --> 02:32:41,000
permitted to go, and they came home and lived safely

2173
02:32:41,200 --> 02:32:46,719
and in peace. And many other veterans of the often

2174
02:32:46,879 --> 02:32:50,639
SS and and other groups were permitted to live peacefully

2175
02:32:50,719 --> 02:32:54,959
in Spain by the Spanish government. But they stayed out

2176
02:32:55,000 --> 02:33:01,440
of the next war because Franco uh removed his sort

2177
02:33:01,479 --> 02:33:07,520
of victory from his belt and placed it on the

2178
02:33:07,639 --> 02:33:14,639
altar on the victory celebration day and vowed never to

2179
02:33:15,120 --> 02:33:20,399
pick it up again unless Spain was threatened. And people

2180
02:33:20,520 --> 02:33:23,840
can say, well, look at look at Spain, now, look

2181
02:33:23,879 --> 02:33:29,280
at the West, now, YadA YadA, Okay, Well, Spain was

2182
02:33:29,440 --> 02:33:36,079
in peace and governed under his dictates and the church

2183
02:33:36,200 --> 02:33:42,680
flourished and still flourishes in Spain, and that was his

2184
02:33:42,959 --> 02:33:49,600
primary duty. There's an argument out there that the logical

2185
02:33:49,680 --> 02:33:54,360
conclusion of is that Germany lost the war because Spain

2186
02:33:54,520 --> 02:33:57,200
wasn't on their side, which is a very strange thing

2187
02:33:57,280 --> 02:34:00,760
to say, but that's kind of the logical conclusion of

2188
02:34:00,920 --> 02:34:04,440
many of the things that are said about. You know,

2189
02:34:04,799 --> 02:34:08,399
what Spain did collectively as a nation after the war,

2190
02:34:08,799 --> 02:34:12,799
which was too you know, continue to send steel to

2191
02:34:13,559 --> 02:34:17,879
in other minerals to Germany and make some weapons for them,

2192
02:34:18,000 --> 02:34:21,360
and other than that, you know, and allow certainly way

2193
02:34:21,440 --> 02:34:24,840
with things, but also not go totally under the thumb

2194
02:34:24,879 --> 02:34:27,639
of the British or anyone else and just kind of

2195
02:34:27,760 --> 02:34:33,079
ride it out and enjoy some peace. So I just

2196
02:34:33,200 --> 02:34:37,440
wanted to point out the stakes, and you can't a

2197
02:34:37,559 --> 02:34:42,639
fervent Catholic cannot go against the you know, that heavy

2198
02:34:43,879 --> 02:34:48,760
that heavy blessing with a with a you know, now

2199
02:34:48,840 --> 02:34:51,680
we know how to behave ourselves, don't we, according to

2200
02:34:52,079 --> 02:34:56,360
the precepts of the religion that you follow. So hence

2201
02:34:56,520 --> 02:34:58,600
hence the way I wanted that to wrap up.

2202
02:35:00,879 --> 02:35:05,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you remember, there there were more than a

2203
02:35:05,639 --> 02:35:10,680
few people who fought the war valant valiantly who would

2204
02:35:10,719 --> 02:35:15,719
have faced the rope and Franco brought them in and

2205
02:35:15,879 --> 02:35:18,239
protected them and let them live out their lives in Spain.

2206
02:35:18,639 --> 02:35:22,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And it was a sticking point with the Allies,

2207
02:35:22,840 --> 02:35:26,959
but he didn't care because they didn't they didn't have,

2208
02:35:27,920 --> 02:35:30,639
you know, the leverage to do anything about it, and

2209
02:35:30,760 --> 02:35:37,040
it wasn't worth stirring up. So and they're very nice blessings.

2210
02:35:37,280 --> 02:35:43,360
It's it makes a someone a silly prot like myself, like,

2211
02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:50,040
look at our tradition which is schism and people with

2212
02:35:50,479 --> 02:35:53,319
a lot of goo in their hair and jeans with

2213
02:35:53,600 --> 02:35:58,120
embroidery on the pockets and guitars apparently, and then you

2214
02:35:58,360 --> 02:36:06,159
hear that just heavy like laiden with emotion ah, prayer

2215
02:36:06,399 --> 02:36:11,120
slash congratulatory speech. It's it's just something else.

2216
02:36:12,639 --> 02:36:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and calls for reconciliation, all forgiveness and mercy. Yeah yeah,

2217
02:36:22,639 --> 02:36:26,079
all right, let's uh, let's wrap this up. Please do

2218
02:36:26,280 --> 02:36:28,600
your your plugs, tell people where they can find your

2219
02:36:28,639 --> 02:36:30,319
stuff and I'll make sure to include them into the

2220
02:36:30,399 --> 02:36:30,879
show notes.

2221
02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:35,200
Speaker 2: Great, thank you. Uh Carldall dot substack dot com is

2222
02:36:35,280 --> 02:36:42,319
where most of my writing is. I have many narrative

2223
02:36:42,479 --> 02:36:46,639
essays and I have some of my fiction there. You

2224
02:36:46,719 --> 02:36:50,440
can buy buy book Faction with the Crusaders, which is

2225
02:36:50,520 --> 02:36:57,639
a story about a American who ends up volunteering for

2226
02:36:58,559 --> 02:37:02,360
the Nationalists in this Banish Civil War. You can get

2227
02:37:02,399 --> 02:37:06,840
that on Amazon. There's links in my substack to that.

2228
02:37:07,120 --> 02:37:12,760
There's a sample first chapter as well, which actually is

2229
02:37:13,600 --> 02:37:16,600
in the Drive to the South as part of the

2230
02:37:16,680 --> 02:37:19,719
Aragon Offensive. That's the first chapter and that story's in there.

2231
02:37:20,879 --> 02:37:25,440
Lots of fun combined to arms operations. And yeah, I'm

2232
02:37:25,479 --> 02:37:30,520
on Twitter too, although I'm not a Twitter enthusiast. Cowdio doll,

2233
02:37:30,760 --> 02:37:32,920
you'll be able to find me. There's some numbers in there.

2234
02:37:34,079 --> 02:37:36,200
It sucks, but you'll you'll be able to find me

2235
02:37:36,319 --> 02:37:40,399
under Carl Dohl cow doo doll on Twitter or excuse

2236
02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:46,760
me X. The platform formerly known as Twitter stupidly renamed X.

2237
02:37:48,040 --> 02:37:50,840
Speaker 1: Thanks Pete, all right man, thank you having good evening.

2238
02:37:51,159 --> 02:37:51,719
Speaker 2: Thanks you too,