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<v Speaker 1>If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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<v Speaker 1>head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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<v Speaker 1>Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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<v Speaker 1>about this, even though I think on the last ad

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<v Speaker 1>I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to have to subscribe yourself up stack or

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<v Speaker 1>through Patreon. You can also subscribe on my website which

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<v Speaker 1>is right there, gum Road and what's the other one,

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe Star And if you do that, you will get

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<v Speaker 1>access to the audio file. So head on over to

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<v Speaker 1>the pekan Yonashow dot com. You'll see all the ways

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<v Speaker 1>that you can support me there. And I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can

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<v Speaker 1>put out the amount of material that I do. I

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<v Speaker 1>can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>and I are doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all

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<v Speaker 1>because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be

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<v Speaker 1>able to thank you enough. So thank you. The pekan

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<v Speaker 1>Yonashow dot com. Everything's there. Want to welcome everyone back

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<v Speaker 1>to the Pekanona show, Jay Burdens back, Hey doing Jay

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<v Speaker 1>doing well?

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me, Pete.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, let's uh, let's get in to this. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think I didn't. My reaction last week wasn't to

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<v Speaker 1>write anything. Why. I'm written out too many years of

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, being a part of a blog and

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<v Speaker 1>having to write something all the time. I'm just I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just wiped. I don't want to write anything anymore. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like I sometimes I sit down and it's just like ah,

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<v Speaker 1>but yeah, I understand the impulse of that when something

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<v Speaker 1>happens that you sit down and you write it. You

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<v Speaker 1>know it was my impulse too, So yeah, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>when you know, with the anniversary of nine to eleven

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<v Speaker 1>last week, you wanted to talk about the towers coming

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<v Speaker 1>down and you know how there were bombs in it

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<v Speaker 1>and the planes were holograms.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, this is a funny thing. I also write

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<v Speaker 2>for my day job, or as much as the day

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<v Speaker 2>job as I have anymore. So I got one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>percent get it. And as part of making myself right,

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<v Speaker 2>I've learned the best way to do that is to

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<v Speaker 2>make promises. So I promised the guys at the OGC

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<v Speaker 2>like hey, I'll get you an article by this time,

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<v Speaker 2>and as you can imagine, it was I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>literally twenty four hours before I had, you know, let's

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<v Speaker 2>just say, forty percent of an article done. And then

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<v Speaker 2>this happened, and it was like, okay, well we got

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about this. And normally I try not to

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<v Speaker 2>talk a lot about the current twenty four hour news

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<v Speaker 2>cycle on my show for a number of reasons, which

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<v Speaker 2>is one, you can find that anywhere. Two, it really

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<v Speaker 2>decreases the shelf life of your product. It's not worth

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<v Speaker 2>talking about. And so fairly deliberately. You know, this was

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<v Speaker 2>written about twenty four hours after the event. So in

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<v Speaker 2>the piece itself, Kirkshot Discourse Killed, which you can find

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<v Speaker 2>on the old Glory Club substack, there's some things there

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<v Speaker 2>that I said that were true. As of the time

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<v Speaker 2>of writing, they had not captured the shooter. There was

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<v Speaker 2>no motive as of yet known. We were just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of speculating, I will say, by waiting twenty four hours

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<v Speaker 2>and having certain baseline knowledge, all of the assumptions were correct, right.

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<v Speaker 2>You didn't need to be no strudamis to figure out,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, why someone went after Kirk and so there

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<v Speaker 2>are a couple things in that right. As you said,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone has written a piece on this, everyone has reacted

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<v Speaker 2>to it. But I think there are a couple things

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<v Speaker 2>really to examine when we're talking about this, which is first, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what can we learn from it? Obligatory it kind of

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<v Speaker 2>provisos getting those out of the way. It probably won't

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<v Speaker 2>surprise you, Pete. I wasn't a big Charlie Kirk listener,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he wasn't really in my feed. But from

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<v Speaker 2>everything I've heard about and he was a good guy,

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<v Speaker 2>a nice guy, and what I did see from him

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<v Speaker 2>was refreshingly honest. He got made fun of, he got

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<v Speaker 2>griped infamously over the past four or five years, and

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<v Speaker 2>it seems as if well he took it to heart.

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<v Speaker 2>He changed, he moved on certain issues. And in the

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<v Speaker 2>last hours of his life, what was he advocating for, Well,

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<v Speaker 2>he was going hammer and tongs for this poor Ukrainian girl,

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<v Speaker 2>Arena who was savagely stabbed. He was sticking his neck out.

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<v Speaker 2>He was doing something that other conservatives felt too cowardly

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<v Speaker 2>to do. And I admire his consistency when talking about

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<v Speaker 2>racial discrimination towards white people, something that is not particularly

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<v Speaker 2>common in the conservative movement, so fair enough. Also, I

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<v Speaker 2>realize you've got some kind of former libertarians in your audience.

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<v Speaker 2>Ross Olbricht, he came out after Kirk was killed and

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<v Speaker 2>wrote a very touching memorial piece where he said, look,

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk was essential to getting him pardoned behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 2>Never came out and took credit for it. And again, look,

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<v Speaker 2>those are two in instances, but I believe that they

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<v Speaker 2>indicate at least a certain amount of this man's character.

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<v Speaker 2>But let's let's go back to initial reactions. Well, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the first thing I thought, and many others of

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<v Speaker 2>us thought, especially on the radical right, is wait, really,

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<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk, because from our perspective, well, Charlie Kirk is

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<v Speaker 2>a moderate right. He holds milk toast opinions. From our

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<v Speaker 2>perspective and in the grand scheme of things right, looking

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<v Speaker 2>at the full political spectrum, that is quite true. He

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<v Speaker 2>was not this kind of fire breather. He was not

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<v Speaker 2>this sort of guy that you would expect to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of stick in the libtard Craw. I hate to say it,

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<v Speaker 2>I think the guy's hilarious, But if this had happened

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<v Speaker 2>to Alex Jones, you kind of get it right. They've

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<v Speaker 2>hated him for a really long time. If it happened

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, Candice Owens or Marjorie Taylor Green, you

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<v Speaker 2>could kind of get it right. Not approving of it,

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<v Speaker 2>but just say, like, that's someone who says things routinely

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<v Speaker 2>that are deliberately kind of poking the progressive sensibility right

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<v Speaker 2>in the face. But then you think about it a

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<v Speaker 2>little more and you're like, Okay, well, Charlie Kirk has

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<v Speaker 2>the same politics that my grandma has, right, he has

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<v Speaker 2>the same politics that the relatively apolitical, just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>normal conservatives who I live around, they think the same

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<v Speaker 2>thing that Charlie Kirk does. And we'll wait a minute.

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<v Speaker 2>If he was a legitimate political target, if he was

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<v Speaker 2>someone who it is morally excusable to kill, well, what

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<v Speaker 2>does that mean about not only everyone who agrees with me,

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<v Speaker 2>my grandma, the people around me, but also anyone to

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<v Speaker 2>his right, anyone more extreme than that. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I brought up in the

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<v Speaker 2>piece is that one effectively this has shown you, listener,

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<v Speaker 2>what they think of you. That you are announced, you're

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<v Speaker 2>a fascist, you are a representative of the ultimate evil,

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<v Speaker 2>which our resume is designed to fight, and so killing

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<v Speaker 2>you is morally excusable. You see this in the reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Look the biggest, you know, most prominent TV hosts. Of

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<v Speaker 2>course they have to do the respectable thing. They have

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<v Speaker 2>to say. Of course, we condemn violence. You saw Obama

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<v Speaker 2>say it, You saw you saw Joe Biden say it.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course they do. It's what you know, soul as

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<v Speaker 2>politicians do. But you go even two steps down to

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<v Speaker 2>someone like Destiny, who Okay, sure he doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 2>network television show, but let's be honest, he has a

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<v Speaker 2>bigger viewership than just about any network television show. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a multi millionaire, he's a very influential person in progressive politics.

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<v Speaker 2>And does he do it? Does he condemn it? Of

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<v Speaker 2>course he doesn't. He refuses to. He sets this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of absurd standard of well, if Trump does exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>I want only them, why condemn it? We know what

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<v Speaker 2>he's doing there, right, we know what he's doing there.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you go beyond that to normal people, right

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<v Speaker 2>to progressive soldiers, to progressive doctors, nurses, teachers, and what

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<v Speaker 2>do we see cheering it on? You know, I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>you've seen the kind of ghoulish displays, you know, mocking

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk's death, and you realize these people they hate you,

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<v Speaker 2>they hate your grandma, to be blunt about it, they

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<v Speaker 2>hate normal conservatives, and they view them as acceptable targets

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<v Speaker 2>for political violence. And that's a very disturbing thing. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's why, obviously, other than the dramatic, gruesome footage,

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<v Speaker 2>other than the obvious sensation of a political assassination, why

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<v Speaker 2>this is stuck with people, Because it's a realization that

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of radio Rwanda propaganda we have heard for

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<v Speaker 2>decades at this point, well, they took it seriously. It's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of a miracle that this doesn't happen more, because

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<v Speaker 2>again and again and again in every op ed, in

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<v Speaker 2>every song, and every kind of awful Instagram infok graphic,

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<v Speaker 2>the buried premises people like this are acceptable targets for

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<v Speaker 2>political violence. What do you do you punch Nazis? What

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<v Speaker 2>do you do you shoot Nazis? It's not a dramatic

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<v Speaker 2>rhetorical jump, So that's a big part of it. I

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<v Speaker 2>think another layer to this, obviously, is that well, if

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<v Speaker 2>we're all Nazis, what's the point in playing or there,

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<v Speaker 2>except like, why why do we play to them. Why

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<v Speaker 2>do we accept their moral judge judgment? Why do we

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<v Speaker 2>want their approval? Because if Charlie Kirk is worth getting shot, well, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't everyone? Why are you playing in their framework? Because

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<v Speaker 2>the moment you depart from it, and even as mild

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<v Speaker 2>away as Charlie Kirk does, well you're on the chopping block.

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<v Speaker 2>So to be honest, why moderate? Why play to their sensibilities?

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<v Speaker 2>Because but if you ever are a threat to them

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<v Speaker 2>in even a minor way, well, they understand that you

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<v Speaker 2>were an enemy. And from their perspective, which is not mine,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you do with a political enemy? You shoot

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<v Speaker 2>them in the neck. This is me reading their actions.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't believe I'm acting unfairly putting words in their mouth.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's another conclusion we can take from this? Well, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>as you can tell in the sort of pithy title,

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<v Speaker 2>a discourse doesn't work because what did Kirk do? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk did exactly what you were supposed to do when

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<v Speaker 2>we were in high school civics class. How do you

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<v Speaker 2>change people's ideas? How do you change the direction of

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<v Speaker 2>the country, Well, you talk to people, you engage in

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<v Speaker 2>the marketplace of ideas, you go to college campuses, hypothetically

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<v Speaker 2>sit down for an open debate and throw ideas back

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<v Speaker 2>and forth, see if you can convince them that you're right.

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<v Speaker 2>And then as popular wisdom goes, people will look at

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<v Speaker 2>that say yeah, that makes a lot of sense and

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<v Speaker 2>adjust their voting habits accordingly. That's how you change things,

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<v Speaker 2>That's how you do politics correctly. Well, how was Kirk

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<v Speaker 2>rewarded for playing the game as he was supposed to?

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<v Speaker 2>Did he win? Was Charlie Kirk the king of America?

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<v Speaker 2>Did he turn the country around? Did he turn us

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<v Speaker 2>back to a nineteen fifties version of America? No? He

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<v Speaker 2>was shot. He was murdered in front of his children,

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<v Speaker 2>and four K video extremely gruesome, I might add for

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<v Speaker 2>engaging with the process as he was supposed to, doing

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<v Speaker 2>everything how you were supposed to playing the game by

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<v Speaker 2>the rules. And when we look at this in total,

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<v Speaker 2>I should say, if you listen to Tucker Carlson talk

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<v Speaker 2>about Charlie Kirk, and let's be honest, Charlie Kirk took

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of flak for continuing his friendship with Tucker

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<v Speaker 2>Carlson took a lot of flak for featuring him at

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<v Speaker 2>his events, well, how did Tucker describe his friend. Well, one,

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<v Speaker 2>he said that he wasn't particularly conservative, at least at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of his career. He understood that con inc

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<v Speaker 2>Had sold us all a bill of goods. So fair enough. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>he has moved. But when I call him a good conservative,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't mean to say that he is a house conservative,

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<v Speaker 2>like he's owned, he's on the plantation. What I mean

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<v Speaker 2>to say is he was playing the game by the

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<v Speaker 2>rules as set out for all of us, doing exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what you're supposed to do well, and again he was

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<v Speaker 2>shot for it. So those are the big conclusions, at

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<v Speaker 2>least initially, and I'll throw it back to you after

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<v Speaker 2>this peet that I take from this, which is one,

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<v Speaker 2>we're all Nazis, Two a discourse doesn't work, and three

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<v Speaker 2>we were sold They told us the wrong rules to

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<v Speaker 2>the game, right, that the correct way to do politics

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<v Speaker 2>was never supposed to result in anything other than them waining.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously, you know a great deal of sympathy for

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk's family. It seems as if his widow is a

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<v Speaker 2>fiery woman who is going after these people looking for blood.

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<v Speaker 2>She's already intonated that she is interested in suing Jimmy Kimmel,

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<v Speaker 2>which good. I hope she takes him for everything he's worth.

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<v Speaker 2>She said that she wants to continue his fight. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's also important to note Charlie Kirk wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>talking to us, so I think we miss a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of his impact. But Kirk was incredibly popular with young people,

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<v Speaker 2>and when we talk about the shift of young men

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<v Speaker 2>to the right, you can't talk about that without mentioning Kirk.

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<v Speaker 2>And look, I am not a conservative. I am not

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<v Speaker 2>someone who really has a lot in common with conservatives

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<v Speaker 2>like Kirk. But let's also be honest. We're all on

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<v Speaker 2>a journey. None of us, at least not most of

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<v Speaker 2>us started uber based out of nowhere, just popped out

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<v Speaker 2>of the womb, you know, with Schopenhauer in one hand

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, a bust of the Austrian painter in another.

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<v Speaker 2>We started somewhere. And when I look at people like Kirk,

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<v Speaker 2>I see someone who, in very good faith, was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to move the Overton window to the right, was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to normalize discussion about anti white discrimination, normalized discussions about

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<v Speaker 2>things that just a few short years ago, three five

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, would result in you being kicked out of

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<v Speaker 2>polite society. And we've got to understand, Pete. Look, if

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<v Speaker 2>you and I are the narrow end of the wedge,

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<v Speaker 2>well there needs to be a wedge behind it. And

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<v Speaker 2>that was men like Charlie Kirk. And look in sort

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<v Speaker 2>of a dark sense, and forgive me if I'm out

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<v Speaker 2>over my skis here, but there is sort of a

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<v Speaker 2>dark irony in the name turning Point USA, because even

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<v Speaker 2>if his organization during his life was not a turning point,

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<v Speaker 2>his death certainly was. It feels as if one of

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<v Speaker 2>those many before and after moments where obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we were kind of joking about nine to eleven when

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<v Speaker 2>we started rolling, but it's always well where were you?

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<v Speaker 2>And it seems as if there was a before and

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<v Speaker 2>after COVID the same thing, and with Kirk, it seems

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<v Speaker 2>as if again there is a before and after a

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<v Speaker 2>turning point, if you will. But I've been going for

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<v Speaker 2>a while, Pete, I'll throw it back to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me ask you this check the well, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if I even have a question. I just

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to point something out. You know, when you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about discourse being dead, I think we you and I

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<v Speaker 1>both know that it's been dead for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and when you you have to realize how far gone

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<v Speaker 1>it is and how far how deeply it seeded into

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<v Speaker 1>the regime, when people who celebrated this openly and publicly

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<v Speaker 1>basically start losing their jobs. And I'm not talking about

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<v Speaker 1>like the people who do the TikTok videos of them

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<v Speaker 1>melting down just so that they can get views. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the people who are genuinely like, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I just lost my job, and you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what I don't know what's going on. These are

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<v Speaker 1>people who believe that they are so right. When it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to call it the zeitgeist. I know a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people just hate that term because it's been so

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<v Speaker 1>fucked up. But according to you know, the spirit of

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<v Speaker 1>the age, that of course I'm allowed to celebrate the

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<v Speaker 1>death of a Nazi and nothing is going to happen

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<v Speaker 1>to me. You know. It's like I know that I've

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<v Speaker 1>gotten I know that I've gotten people this I'm speaking

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<v Speaker 1>in the third person for them. I know that I've

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<v Speaker 1>gotten people fired from their jobs because they have Republican views.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's all right, that's the spirit of the age.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what we are. How am I getting fired now

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<v Speaker 1>for this. This is like I mean, and I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>does this escalate because you see people getting fired? I

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<v Speaker 1>mean you, I mean, at least from what I've heard,

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<v Speaker 1>there are groups that are targeting right now because they

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<v Speaker 1>just don't have the manpower to do it. Forty to

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand people to have to lose their jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So look, if we were in an ideal situation,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if if we had Jesus Christ himself as

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<v Speaker 2>the King of America, would we want cancel culture? Probably?

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<v Speaker 1>Not right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not cool, as Sam Hide said, it's kind of scummy.

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<v Speaker 2>But fundamentally, this didn't come out of nowhere. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>like right wingers woke up in the Year of Our

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<v Speaker 2>Lord twenty twenty five and said, hey, guess what, We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to start calling people's jobs and getting them fired. Uh. One,

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<v Speaker 2>we're really late in this. I use the example, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>speaking on the good Old Boys, saying like, look, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're if you're in a professional wrestling match and you're

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<v Speaker 2>a jobber, right, you're the Brooklyn Brawler, and you know

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<v Speaker 2>you're getting beat up, and then all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>you know you're wrestling a partner pulls out a switch

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<v Speaker 2>blade and stabs you in the gut, like, wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't what we were supposed to do. And you

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<v Speaker 2>can choose two ways to react from that, which is

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<v Speaker 2>one you can complain and say, well, this isn't the rules, right,

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't governance, this isn't politics as I was taught

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<v Speaker 2>in civics class. Or you can basically say like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>like we're going to have to fight. Then then this

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<v Speaker 2>has become existential. You have threatened who I am what

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<v Speaker 2>I am. And when we talk about that reaction, when

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<v Speaker 2>we look at the left and the way they talk

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<v Speaker 2>about Nazis and an existential threat to our democracy, that

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<v Speaker 2>is implicitly a call for political violence, because what they

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<v Speaker 2>are saying when they call you a Nazi is they're

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<v Speaker 2>saying you are an existential threat to democracy, to me,

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<v Speaker 2>to our nation. And look, you don't have to be

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<v Speaker 2>a legal genius to figure out what you're supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>do to an existential threat. Like if the crackhead with

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<v Speaker 2>a switchblade comes out of the ally Ali is an

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<v Speaker 2>existential threat to you, you are justified in mowing them down, right,

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<v Speaker 2>that is what you do to protect your existence. If

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<v Speaker 2>you will. And so if we find ourselves in that position,

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<v Speaker 2>if we find ourselves in a position where we are

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<v Speaker 2>being threatened and have been threatened first economically and now physically, well,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, man, turn them out is fair play.

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<v Speaker 2>We are we understand the stakes of this game. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that this is a very encouraging sign when

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<v Speaker 2>we look at the right for my entire life really

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<v Speaker 2>before Donald Trump, and I don't want to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>give the man too much credit, but I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>fair to say the right has been the designated loser

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<v Speaker 2>of politics in America. That the game, the system as

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<v Speaker 2>it was assumed that progressives would ultimately get what they want.

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<v Speaker 2>The joke is right, Conservatives are merely progressives driving the

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<v Speaker 2>speed limit. They would get in power, pull their foot

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<v Speaker 2>off the gas, but keep going in the same direct action,

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<v Speaker 2>and ultimately they would faithfully, again like you know a

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<v Speaker 2>job or in wrestling, lose and take their pay day.

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<v Speaker 2>Their pay day was whatever they could collect from Red America.

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<v Speaker 2>That was what they got for playing. The mark for

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<v Speaker 2>getting beat up is they got to, you know, live

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<v Speaker 2>out their life comfortably off of the spoils of the

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<v Speaker 2>other parts of America. Well, look if you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>actually turn that around if you say, no, we're not

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<v Speaker 2>playing to collect the consolation money after we lose, but

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<v Speaker 2>we're playing to win. You've got to understand this becomes

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<v Speaker 2>an actual fight then, right, this becomes this becomes a

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<v Speaker 2>real wrestling match, right, not one with you know, shoots

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<v Speaker 2>and ladders and you know a fire extinguisher. It's an

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<v Speaker 2>actual fight, and that, I think is what is what

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<v Speaker 2>is happening in politics. So we look at this, right,

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<v Speaker 2>we look at cancel culture and we say, well, guess

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<v Speaker 2>what we can do that too, And some of it

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<v Speaker 2>is nakedly political. Right, you're going to take a hit

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<v Speaker 2>for this. You took one of our guys. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to take you out. Another element of this that can't

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<v Speaker 2>be overstated is I don't actually want someone who thinks

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<v Speaker 2>it's cool to dance on someone's grave, operating on me,

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<v Speaker 2>enforcing the law, teaching my kids, even making my food. Like, really,

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<v Speaker 2>do you trust someone who is that cracked, who is

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<v Speaker 2>that morally depraved, to handle your sandwich? It is quite literally,

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<v Speaker 2>and you may have heard this phrase before. You may

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<v Speaker 2>have freedom of speech, but you don't have freedom from consequences. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>someone decided that was a cool way to organize society.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone decided that's what we were going to do. We

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<v Speaker 2>were going to bring a shank to this match. And

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<v Speaker 2>guess what. As you know many have said in condemning

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<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk, you live by the sword, you die by

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<v Speaker 2>the sword. And in an ideal society, in a society

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<v Speaker 2>that had a certain element of moral consensus, in a

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<v Speaker 2>society that had a culture that was in some way unified,

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<v Speaker 2>we probably wouldn't need to do this. But here's where

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<v Speaker 2>we are. Someone some half of politics decided we were

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<v Speaker 2>going to play revolution. And this is the consequences of

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<v Speaker 2>those actions. And when I say escalate, I'm not one

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<v Speaker 2>of these you know, boogaloo seventeen seventy six will commence

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<v Speaker 2>again civil war types. But I think you'd have to

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<v Speaker 2>be an idiot to look at American politics and say,

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<v Speaker 2>I think things are going to cool down in the

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<v Speaker 2>foreseeable future. I think we're going to return to normal.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's going to be just like it was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, right after the Cold War ended. Things are

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<v Speaker 2>just gonna be hunky door like. Clearly not things are

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<v Speaker 2>heating up. And let's not forget that before you know

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk was killed, there was another example of that Ukrainian

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<v Speaker 2>refugee arena. Well, when she was killed, what was the reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it just that charge Kirk was such an execrable

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<v Speaker 2>political figure who was so hated that people wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>dance on his grave. No, this poor Ukrainian woman was

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<v Speaker 2>stabbed for the crime of being white. And what did

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<v Speaker 2>we see, effectively the exact same response, which is either

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care or good I got a white girl.

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<v Speaker 2>To quote aspiring astrophysicist De Carlos.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the uh what people? I don't think what people

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<v Speaker 1>are realizing? They don't the more so arena than Charlie,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe maybe equally, but at least there is a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of it. The picture of that. Is it a

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<v Speaker 1>subway car? Is it a tram? What the hell is

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<v Speaker 1>it that she's in?

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<v Speaker 2>They said it was like light rail, So I guess

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<v Speaker 2>like a street car. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so light rail, let's call it light rail. You

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<v Speaker 1>see a picture of who she surrounded by, and what

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<v Speaker 1>you realize is that the people who could have came

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<v Speaker 1>to her aid all look like the person who perpetrated this.

414
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.319
<v Speaker 1>And you realize that the people who could have come

415
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:17.160
<v Speaker 1>to her aid didn't identify with her. They identified with

416
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the guy who did it. So not only do you

417
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 1>have this group of what Thomas calls you know, and

418
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm leaving the whole Israel thing out of this because

419
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna need to see a whole bunch more evidence,

420
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:33.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm before before I go down that road.

421
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>And if I'm saying that, yeah, but when.

422
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.400
<v Speaker 2>You're saying infamous fan of Israel quanonas.

423
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:50.319
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, yes. What Thomas said last night when we

424
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:54.480
<v Speaker 1>recorded the episode we dropped last night was basically, you

425
00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 1>have a group of people who everything surrounds their genitals.

426
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.720
<v Speaker 1>That's what the gay lobby, the trans lobby, all these people,

427
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>it's just the abortion lobby. It all is around their

428
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>genitals and it has to do with sex, and they're

429
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.599
<v Speaker 1>willing to kill people who say, you know, it shouldn't

430
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.359
<v Speaker 1>be all about that. There's actually some other things out

431
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 1>there that might be important. Then you have a whole

432
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.000
<v Speaker 1>nother group that we see who it's all about their identity,

433
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:30.920
<v Speaker 1>it's all about their skin color, and it's all about, hey,

434
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.400
<v Speaker 1>that guy looks like me. He may have just done

435
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.000
<v Speaker 1>something really messed up. He may even just killed that girl.

436
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 1>But I'm not stepping into help. I'm not stepping into

437
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:47.599
<v Speaker 1>help at least until it's too late. And the question is,

438
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.759
<v Speaker 1>when you see Charlie getting killed and you see Arena

439
00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:55.640
<v Speaker 1>getting killed like that, and you can focus on two

440
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.640
<v Speaker 1>groups within your society, how do you go forward as

441
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:04.880
<v Speaker 1>a society when everybody when when people are literal enemies,

442
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.519
<v Speaker 1>when they are literal enemies who are willing to not

443
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:12.200
<v Speaker 1>only kill, but to you have a group around you

444
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.359
<v Speaker 1>that is going to that is going to surround you

445
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:20.079
<v Speaker 1>and go, yeah, you know that person, the system failed

446
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:24.640
<v Speaker 1>that person. You know it's because of four hundred years

447
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:28.839
<v Speaker 1>of slavery and they, I mean, how there's no way

448
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.839
<v Speaker 1>to go forward. If there's anything that we've learned in

449
00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:37.000
<v Speaker 1>the last ten days, it's that we have warring factions

450
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:42.279
<v Speaker 1>in this country who are literally willing to kill and

451
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 1>nobody's going to stop them because they have radical in

452
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:52.119
<v Speaker 1>group preference and they're in groups are numerous and in

453
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.279
<v Speaker 1>some cases politically powerful.

454
00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that when we talk about why the

455
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Conservatives are ultimately losers, it's because they see a path

456
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>forward of using the established rules of a functional version

457
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 2>of our system to fix the current problems. They assume

458
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.920
<v Speaker 2>that well, if we simply act like things worked, they

459
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.920
<v Speaker 2>will start working again. It's really not the case. This

460
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.599
<v Speaker 2>is actually, weirdly enough, a problem you see both with

461
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 2>people who are into peaceful parenting and libertarians is that

462
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:34.519
<v Speaker 2>they seek to act as if their desired end state

463
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.839
<v Speaker 2>is already achieved. Well, I'll act like I live in

464
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>a high trust society that will produce those results. Clearly

465
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.599
<v Speaker 2>that is not the case. And that's the problem when

466
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:51.279
<v Speaker 2>you have no moral consensus where there are two diametrically

467
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.920
<v Speaker 2>opposed factions. And this is really what we see when

468
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:59.519
<v Speaker 2>we talk about politics, like what is capital p politics, Well,

469
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.559
<v Speaker 2>it's when you have two groups where they cannot both

470
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.079
<v Speaker 2>live life as they see fit. The classic example I

471
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 2>stole this from Wade Stotts, who's a very talented rhetortician.

472
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>He talks about if you're Amish and a gay land

473
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:19.240
<v Speaker 2>developer wants to put in, you know, a gay club

474
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:21.720
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of your community, Well, all of a sudden,

475
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 2>you have politics. Those are mutually incompatible goals. You cannot

476
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.720
<v Speaker 2>both have an amish community and a thriving gay nightclub. Right,

477
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.319
<v Speaker 2>one must give. And it's a silly example, You know,

478
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:34.359
<v Speaker 2>I bring it up because it gets laughs. But either way,

479
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 2>that's what we have on a societal level, that you

480
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:42.359
<v Speaker 2>cannot have both of these visions. And look, that's been

481
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.960
<v Speaker 2>the case for a while. Let's be honest. The two

482
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.799
<v Speaker 2>stories of America that you can read about in Yarvin

483
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.400
<v Speaker 2>have existed for a very long time. But if you

484
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.720
<v Speaker 2>have that conflict, but it is being sort of worked

485
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:03.119
<v Speaker 2>out between a winner and a paid off loser, well, okay,

486
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 2>even if those two parties don't technically agree on the

487
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>ground level, it doesn't really matter. There's no real struggle

488
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.880
<v Speaker 2>for control, simply a debate over how long it takes

489
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>for one side to win. But the moment that the

490
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.839
<v Speaker 2>loser looks around and says, well, honestly, man, like, why

491
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.799
<v Speaker 2>do would I keep taking this deal? You're going to

492
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 2>drive me to the end of my rope and leave

493
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.559
<v Speaker 2>you with nothing. I think I'd like to win for once. Well,

494
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, that becomes a real deal conflict.

495
00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's what we're seeing is people are realizing,

496
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>especially normal conservative people, that the terms of the game

497
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.720
<v Speaker 2>are not simply the kind of negotiated defeat they are

498
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 2>used to. But it is a genuine existential struggle. It

499
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>is genuinely if we don't win, we will be treated

500
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 2>like this. This is how this is what our life

501
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:54.720
<v Speaker 2>will be. We will not be They will not extend

502
00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the same gracious attitude that conservatives had often in victory

503
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote victory if you will. And so I think

504
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 2>that's why so many people are disturbed by this as

505
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:09.400
<v Speaker 2>they are realizing the stakes of politics. And look, it

506
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 2>didn't have to be like this. It was a it

507
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:13.720
<v Speaker 2>was a series of choices. It was a series of

508
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>human actions that led to this situation. But looking at

509
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:20.720
<v Speaker 2>the situation, looking at the situation, the state of play

510
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:24.519
<v Speaker 2>as it is, you're one hundred percent right, there is

511
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 2>no compromise on this. One side will have to be defeated.

512
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:30.759
<v Speaker 2>And when I look at people like is Stephen Miller,

513
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:35.000
<v Speaker 2>who is is impressive to cram so much rage into

514
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.119
<v Speaker 2>such a small man, going just hard in the paint, saying,

515
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, the West must be saved. Burn these people

516
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.880
<v Speaker 2>to the ground, you know, going after these groups with

517
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.160
<v Speaker 2>rico charges, basically saying we will prosecute these people to

518
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.480
<v Speaker 2>the fullest extent of the law. I see someone who

519
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>realizes what time it is I see someone who realizes

520
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.519
<v Speaker 2>the threat that this sort of violence presents to to

521
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.279
<v Speaker 2>be blunt about it. And on the other hand, if

522
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.480
<v Speaker 2>we want to talk about old the old style conservatives,

523
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the beautiful losers, as Francis would describe them, well, there

524
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.519
<v Speaker 2>are a few better examples than someone like Bondie, right,

525
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.960
<v Speaker 2>someone who is saying just this kind of incoherent nonsense

526
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.039
<v Speaker 2>about hate speech and how we really want to secure

527
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.279
<v Speaker 2>people's rights to printing out photos of Charlie Kirk. It's like, well,

528
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 2>this is one a horrible misdirection. This is really not

529
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.960
<v Speaker 2>what anyone cares about. But also you're missing the stakes

530
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.680
<v Speaker 2>of this game. You're missing that this is not simply

531
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.079
<v Speaker 2>my ability to go to Pop Copy and demand they

532
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:40.119
<v Speaker 2>print whatever I want. But this is a blow struck

533
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.359
<v Speaker 2>at the core of what it means to be, let's

534
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 2>be honest, a sovereign niche. If you do not have

535
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the monopoly on violence, if you cannot say extra judicial

536
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 2>killings are inappropriate, they are sanctioned, they will be pursued

537
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Speaker 2>to the end degree or are you really a government anymore?

538
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:02.359
<v Speaker 2>And to me, I think that those two figures signal

539
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the divide between those who realize that they are in

540
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:11.119
<v Speaker 2>a real deal political capital p conflict, or those who

541
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:15.480
<v Speaker 2>want to go back to kind of sleepy, humdrum version

542
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:20.160
<v Speaker 2>of DC politics where conservatives, where right wingers simply bide

543
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 2>their time until they're out of power, raking in donations

544
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:29.279
<v Speaker 2>from from flyover America and fiddling while Rome burns.

545
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the whole thing, would Bondy really just that triggered me.

546
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:44.559
<v Speaker 1>It triggered thoughts in my mind about just how how different,

547
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>how many different factions you have, even within people calling

548
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:52.119
<v Speaker 1>themselves maga. You know, I made the point on Twitter

549
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 1>today that the Bondy puts hell, I don't want to

550
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:58.559
<v Speaker 1>take this in an opposite direction and just point out

551
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 1>how out of the game a lot of people are.

552
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:06.079
<v Speaker 1>The Bondi and Patel are clearly Desantus loyalists anything you

553
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:09.000
<v Speaker 1>could see, because they it seems like they're working to

554
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.199
<v Speaker 1>destroy the Trump White House. And yeah, I also make

555
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 1>the point that Desantus is obviously a big friend of Israel,

556
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and then someone says, well so is Donald Trump. It's like, yeah,

557
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 1>there can't be factions. It's not like there could be

558
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:27.079
<v Speaker 1>actually factions within those things working against each other. You know,

559
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.320
<v Speaker 1>like there could be some that have certain interests because

560
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:35.320
<v Speaker 1>ignoring Stephen Miller, you know that his background and everything,

561
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 1>he seems to be the most base person out there

562
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 1>who's saying the right things, who's in in the administration,

563
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:52.599
<v Speaker 1>and you're right, Miller is speaking the language of what

564
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Sam Hide said. And Sam Hyde, you know, is another

565
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:59.440
<v Speaker 1>one who I can't believe that Thomas had to address

566
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.519
<v Speaker 1>this last night that there are people who were saying

567
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:06.280
<v Speaker 1>that Sam Hyde was not sincere in his sentiment towards

568
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>Charlie Kirk, like that his tears were insincere. It's like,

569
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 1>if you think that you really shouldn't have anything to

570
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:21.519
<v Speaker 1>do with politics, you've either been doing this too long

571
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:26.400
<v Speaker 1>and you've just you've lost your you've lost your humanity,

572
00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:29.800
<v Speaker 1>or you you know, we live in the age of

573
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:32.440
<v Speaker 1>total politics. There are people who are paying attention to

574
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:36.119
<v Speaker 1>politics who don't have don't have the temperament for it,

575
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:38.800
<v Speaker 1>don't have they don't have the constitution for it. And

576
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.440
<v Speaker 1>that goes for people who've been talking about commenting on

577
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 1>politics for a really, really long time, like people on

578
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:49.280
<v Speaker 1>our side of the Great Divide who celebrated Charlie Kirk's

579
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:53.519
<v Speaker 1>death because Israel, because that's the only thing that they

580
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.559
<v Speaker 1>can concentrate on. That is there one thing that they

581
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>don't that they I'm going to go down a path.

582
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:06.039
<v Speaker 1>But the what Sam Hyde said was, and when he

583
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.119
<v Speaker 1>said it, I agreed with him. You literally have like

584
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:15.280
<v Speaker 1>two weeks of momentum and if there isn't if steps

585
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:22.199
<v Speaker 1>aren't taken to basically go full And I hate to

586
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.239
<v Speaker 1>say this because it was a failure, you know, rooting

587
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:31.039
<v Speaker 1>out terrorist cells like Iraq or Afghanistan here at home,

588
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:35.800
<v Speaker 1>where there are people who know where they are. Local

589
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.239
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement knows where these people are, knows where they're

590
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.679
<v Speaker 1>hold up. If they're not willing to go and do that,

591
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:42.880
<v Speaker 1>and if you're not willing to see anything within the

592
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 1>next two weeks, even if it doesn't accomplish anything long term,

593
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:54.400
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty much done. And this administration is pretty much,

594
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.239
<v Speaker 1>in my opinion, to be ignored. And you know, maybe

595
00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.719
<v Speaker 1>there's some people in the administration who are doing good work,

596
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 1>but the administration as a whole, there's no real points

597
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.360
<v Speaker 1>to support it, to support anything they're doing.

598
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that there, I get it right. A

599
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Rico case takes a long time to put together one

600
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:22.960
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent understand but also from my perspective, I feel

601
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.239
<v Speaker 2>like I've given the Trump presidency the benefit of the

602
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:30.320
<v Speaker 2>doubt a lot. I'm not one of these reflective Trump haters,

603
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.559
<v Speaker 2>and so in a situation like this, where it is

604
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:39.039
<v Speaker 2>a I mean, as awful as the event is, it

605
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.119
<v Speaker 2>is about the best political opportunity you could hope for

606
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.079
<v Speaker 2>being given to you on a silver platter, where it's

607
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Trump's would be gold in that case if you fumble that, look, man,

608
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to give you, as we did in Charlotte,

609
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:02.559
<v Speaker 2>your fifteenth chance. You know, sorry, man, I could notice

610
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:05.880
<v Speaker 2>a pattern, and it's especially frustrating for a man like

611
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, who sort of built his media reputation on

612
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.119
<v Speaker 2>firing the wrong people and hiring the good ones, for

613
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:17.280
<v Speaker 2>him to be so unwilling to fire these incompetent members

614
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:20.639
<v Speaker 2>of his own cabinet, right BONDI, who has been largely

615
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.519
<v Speaker 2>shooting herself in the foot for oh, I don't know

616
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.400
<v Speaker 2>about the last nine months, just over and over and

617
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:32.239
<v Speaker 2>over again. At a certain point, I'm not being cynical

618
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.559
<v Speaker 2>when I say that this seems like, if you were

619
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.079
<v Speaker 2>not taking an action, this is part of the plant.

620
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 2>From your perspective, this is a feature, not a bug.

621
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:46.760
<v Speaker 2>When we look at these organizations, we've understood people like

622
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.960
<v Speaker 2>you and I. I'd also recommend the work of Mike Shelby.

623
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:54.880
<v Speaker 2>You can find him on Twitter, who tracks Antifa. These

624
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:57.880
<v Speaker 2>organizations have been around for a very long time. They've

625
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.760
<v Speaker 2>organized in public on places like red it around, you know,

626
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the SRA, the Socialist Rifle Association, the John Brown Gun Club,

627
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.880
<v Speaker 2>and others, but also on Discord, which, again, if we're

628
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:16.079
<v Speaker 2>talking about living in the greatest you know, digital panopticon

629
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.960
<v Speaker 2>the world has ever seen. The fact the administration cannot

630
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.679
<v Speaker 2>do something to discourse a discord rather is absurd. So

631
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 2>let's examine discord. A lot of people use it. It's

632
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:30.360
<v Speaker 2>sort of ubiquitous as a chat app. When I was

633
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 2>in high school. Is the way that you organize playing

634
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:35.599
<v Speaker 2>games with your friends. It's still predominantly what it's used for,

635
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.119
<v Speaker 2>but for those who aren't familiar, it lets you have

636
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.400
<v Speaker 2>your own private group chat on a server, right, you

637
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 2>can make channels. People use it for work. Most people

638
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.519
<v Speaker 2>just use it to hang out. It has sort of

639
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:50.800
<v Speaker 2>taken over what forums were in a previous version of

640
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:56.159
<v Speaker 2>the Internet. And also in addition to that, Discord is

641
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:02.199
<v Speaker 2>the center of not trying to be grotesque here, but

642
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 2>of child exploitation and grooming on the internet, so much

643
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:09.360
<v Speaker 2>so that a Discord moderator for people under about thirty

644
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:14.519
<v Speaker 2>is shorthand for a pedophile is It's almost a hackneyed

645
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.599
<v Speaker 2>joke at this point, every joke that you know, my

646
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 2>parents' generation made about Catholic priests, their children are making

647
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 2>about people who spend a lot of time on Discord.

648
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:27.519
<v Speaker 2>And in addition to that, obviously you have the you know,

649
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 2>the grotesque crimes against children, but you also have a

650
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:33.199
<v Speaker 2>large portion of the trans community. I realized that as

651
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:35.320
<v Speaker 2>a Venn diagram that might just be one circle. But

652
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:37.719
<v Speaker 2>point is, there's a lot of trans stuff that goes

653
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:42.079
<v Speaker 2>on there, much of it connected to grooming. But also

654
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:47.320
<v Speaker 2>these antifook groups, right, these violent terrorist organizations, many of

655
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:51.000
<v Speaker 2>whom are doing things that are incidentally very illegal anyway,

656
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:55.320
<v Speaker 2>And well, what is to be done? It seems as

657
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 2>if the administration, the previous administration, has largely done absolutely

658
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.559
<v Speaker 2>nothing about Discord. And look, you could say, well, it's

659
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.000
<v Speaker 2>not really Discord's fault. Look at all the crimes that

660
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>are planned over the phone. Maybe they just don't know,

661
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.599
<v Speaker 2>all right, Well, how does Discord treat the problems they

662
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.800
<v Speaker 2>do care about? For instance, dangerous right wingers. Are you

663
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.199
<v Speaker 2>in a private group chat with your friends dropping the

664
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:23.440
<v Speaker 2>hard r instant ban You're done forever? Are you organizing

665
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:26.679
<v Speaker 2>a right wing event? Well, just mysteriously accidentally, we didn't

666
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.400
<v Speaker 2>do it on purpose. All of your names and identities

667
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.000
<v Speaker 2>have been linked to the press. So they do have

668
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the ability to do that. They do have the ability

669
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.679
<v Speaker 2>to act and to take things down or to forward

670
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.920
<v Speaker 2>them to the authorities. And so again, even if it

671
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.360
<v Speaker 2>was not deliberately endorsed, was not planned by the staff

672
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:50.159
<v Speaker 2>of Discord, well, it certainly has their tacit approval because

673
00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 2>we've seen that they can act when something violates their

674
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:56.440
<v Speaker 2>internal moral code, and they have not acted in this

675
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:59.840
<v Speaker 2>case or in many others. They have not acted against

676
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the you know, the shadowy you know Discord groups connected

677
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:08.079
<v Speaker 2>to you know, passing around like gore and stuff films

678
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 2>or you know, footage of child sexual abuse, any of these,

679
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:13.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, horrible things. But when our friend Thomas creates

680
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.320
<v Speaker 2>a discord, it's down in two days. And look, you know,

681
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:20.079
<v Speaker 2>Thomas's fans can be a bit rowdy, but I doubt

682
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:24.000
<v Speaker 2>they're doing anything like that. Again, it's clear that this

683
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:28.440
<v Speaker 2>is another institution which is completely and totally ideologically captured.

684
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.679
<v Speaker 2>And if you are the regime, if you are the president,

685
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:32.639
<v Speaker 2>if you are the most powerful man in the world,

686
00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and you allow a company, even a big company, to

687
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>thumb their nose at you and to say no, I'm

688
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:43.039
<v Speaker 2>not gonna do anything about it. No, the terrorists, the

689
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:49.119
<v Speaker 2>violent lunatics killing your young fathers in public, I'm not

690
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:51.800
<v Speaker 2>gonna do anything about that. Well, are you really president?

691
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:55.559
<v Speaker 2>And it seems as if no, because you don't have

692
00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:00.639
<v Speaker 2>the monopoly on forced you don't have control. And again,

693
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's important to say, when we're talking about retribution,

694
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.719
<v Speaker 2>we're not talking about violence, right, We're not saying that

695
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:12.880
<v Speaker 2>people who wish death on Charlie Kirk should be you know,

696
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:16.159
<v Speaker 2>dragged out into an alley and beaten. We'll go with that.

697
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.400
<v Speaker 2>We're not saying that because look, let's draw a distinction

698
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:25.199
<v Speaker 2>between force and violence. Violence is basically force in a

699
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:28.199
<v Speaker 2>state of failure. If you have control, you don't need

700
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.719
<v Speaker 2>to get violent. Sure, ultimately, you know, if someone is convicted,

701
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:34.719
<v Speaker 2>there may be you know, a form of corporal punishment.

702
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 2>That's not what we're talking about here, effectively, what we

703
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:41.719
<v Speaker 2>are asking for what ought to be done. The just

704
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:46.079
<v Speaker 2>thing to do is for these people to meet righteous authority,

705
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:51.400
<v Speaker 2>to meet the consequences for their actions, either in coordinating

706
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:54.800
<v Speaker 2>for this murder, either in celebrating this murder, or in

707
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.039
<v Speaker 2>when I think this is very important, I included this

708
00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 2>in my piece for creating the conditions for creating the

709
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:05.639
<v Speaker 2>rhetoric which led to this climate of violence, which led

710
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.920
<v Speaker 2>to someone feeling that Charlie Kirk was a fascist, that

711
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk was so dangerous to his community of button

712
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:16.159
<v Speaker 2>married freaks that he needed to be shot with a rifle.

713
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:20.280
<v Speaker 2>And again, this is not this is not you know,

714
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.840
<v Speaker 2>pie in the sky thinking. We're not asking for something

715
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:26.000
<v Speaker 2>that hasn't been done, We're not asking for something that

716
00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:30.960
<v Speaker 2>isn't reasonable. What we're asking for is simple justice, the

717
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:34.599
<v Speaker 2>kind of justice that rulers from time in memoriam have understood,

718
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:36.880
<v Speaker 2>which is that if you are to be in control,

719
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:42.599
<v Speaker 2>you must be the final decision maker, you must have

720
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 2>the monopoly on violence. And sadly enough, it seems as

721
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:48.760
<v Speaker 2>if the administration, it seems as if Trump is unwilling

722
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.480
<v Speaker 2>to stand up and accept that responsibility. My only hope

723
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.039
<v Speaker 2>is that he changes his mind.

724
00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, not only does not going after the disco, going

725
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:10.159
<v Speaker 1>after Discord and their servers and these people specifically, Yeah,

726
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.599
<v Speaker 1>what it does is it lends them legitimacy. In their

727
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:18.719
<v Speaker 1>own minds. They they're like, oh, well, these people who

728
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.440
<v Speaker 1>these geniuses who started this platform, you know, and who

729
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:26.880
<v Speaker 1>are becoming rich off of it, they're protecting us from

730
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the government. And in their ssri addult freak show minds

731
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.199
<v Speaker 1>they're like, oh, wow, no, because this because these private

732
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:42.079
<v Speaker 1>people have here, this private business which they're not supposed

733
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:47.000
<v Speaker 1>to like, protects us and is giving us cover. That

734
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:50.320
<v Speaker 1>means we're the good guys. That means we're the legitimate

735
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:56.400
<v Speaker 1>ones and everyone else isn't. And that is people don't.

736
00:45:56.679 --> 00:46:02.159
<v Speaker 1>People don't understand that how important legitimacy is in the

737
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:10.159
<v Speaker 1>minds of everyone that's alive. People you instinctively still you

738
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:14.400
<v Speaker 1>hear something, You hear about a story somewhere, and you're like, Okay,

739
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.880
<v Speaker 1>where's a good where's a legitimate source that I can

740
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.119
<v Speaker 1>get this from, you know, And that's just it's what

741
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.440
<v Speaker 1>we look for. And people have no idea that by

742
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:28.360
<v Speaker 1>not taking down, by not taking down these networks, not

743
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:30.519
<v Speaker 1>only discord by not taking down the networks, by not

744
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.199
<v Speaker 1>taking down anti fib By not taking down at this point,

745
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:36.320
<v Speaker 1>looks like the DSA is involved. By not taking them down,

746
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:41.320
<v Speaker 1>you're just legitimizing them, and their members feel more legitimized

747
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.360
<v Speaker 1>by it. Now they could become radicalized if you take

748
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.880
<v Speaker 1>it down. But I mean, how much more radical can

749
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.159
<v Speaker 1>they get than they are now? They're fucking shooting people.

750
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's important to mention that obviously this

751
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:57.360
<v Speaker 2>is a dramatic escalation in violence. But you know, let's

752
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:00.079
<v Speaker 2>look back what six weeks ago to the ambush on

753
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:05.400
<v Speaker 2>an ice facility in Texas where ten Antifoo aligned shooters

754
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:09.119
<v Speaker 2>basically set up an ambush and a parking lot. I

755
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:12.320
<v Speaker 2>was talking to our mutual friend Clay about this, and

756
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.199
<v Speaker 2>he said it was about as perfectly planned not executed

757
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:18.519
<v Speaker 2>as you could hope for. You know, in a situation

758
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:21.840
<v Speaker 2>where you have rifles, you have optics, and you're attacking

759
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:24.920
<v Speaker 2>guys with handguns. Well, they stuck them in the middle

760
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.880
<v Speaker 2>of a brightly lit parking lot at night and sat

761
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.960
<v Speaker 2>one hundred yards away, right too far to reliably hit

762
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.639
<v Speaker 2>under pressure with a handgun unless you're really talented. Where

763
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you have a perfect rest, you can see them, they

764
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:41.039
<v Speaker 2>can't see you. You've got ten people there. Okay, fair enough.

765
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:43.239
<v Speaker 2>They weren't that good at it, you know, they hit

766
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:46.079
<v Speaker 2>one guy, didn't kill him, and then seems to have

767
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:49.199
<v Speaker 2>lost their nerve, ran off and all got captured. Okay,

768
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.079
<v Speaker 2>so it wasn't the most successful thing in the world.

769
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:55.119
<v Speaker 2>But that is a major escalation from anything we'd seen previously,

770
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:57.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, going from you know, throwing a piss bottle

771
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.519
<v Speaker 2>at a cop or maybe a molotav at a platation

772
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:04.239
<v Speaker 2>up to you, a ten person l shaped ambush like

773
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:09.880
<v Speaker 2>guess what, bucco, we're in Vietnam. Like, that's a major escalation. Similarly,

774
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.280
<v Speaker 2>when we're talking about legitimacy, there are a couple things here,

775
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:14.400
<v Speaker 2>which is one and I think Hyde made this point,

776
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.559
<v Speaker 2>and Hyde's show on this was excellent. I consider it

777
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 2>required viewing for any of our guys. I am a

778
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.559
<v Speaker 2>fan of his stuff and have been for a long time.

779
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.079
<v Speaker 2>But even if you aren't, check this out. It's hided

780
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:29.239
<v Speaker 2>as best unusually serious and very poignant. But one of

781
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:32.960
<v Speaker 2>the things he was talking about is that, look, obviously

782
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the person who did this needs to be punished. And

783
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.920
<v Speaker 2>after I make this point, I'll return to why I

784
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.880
<v Speaker 2>think he should be punished to the fullest extent of

785
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Utah law. But it's almost more important that the person

786
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:50.119
<v Speaker 2>is caught quickly and competently, right, that they understand that

787
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.800
<v Speaker 2>if you try to do this, there is no chance

788
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.519
<v Speaker 2>of you escaping, where in this case the FBI seems

789
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:59.639
<v Speaker 2>to have sort of fumbled the back. They've bumbled, they

790
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't what they were supposed to, and so fair enough,

791
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess it took less than two full days for

792
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>the guy to be brought to justice. But how was

793
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.559
<v Speaker 2>he brought to justice? Well, basically it seems as if

794
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:12.800
<v Speaker 2>his dad and maybe a pastor or a priest were

795
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.719
<v Speaker 2>not entirely sure recognized the photo and said, hey, Bud,

796
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:18.920
<v Speaker 2>you got to turn yourself in. This is not exactly

797
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:26.199
<v Speaker 2>a no knock rade. So because why does that matter? Well, one,

798
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a show of force, certainly does that. But also

799
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:32.599
<v Speaker 2>you've got to understand that when these people imagine themselves

800
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:35.840
<v Speaker 2>in that position, they say, well, he almost got away

801
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.760
<v Speaker 2>with it. I bet I could, especially if what seems

802
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:41.360
<v Speaker 2>to be the case is the case, which is that

803
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:44.519
<v Speaker 2>this was coordinated, that were multiple people involved. If you

804
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:46.760
<v Speaker 2>look at it and say, well, if he had a

805
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:49.480
<v Speaker 2>better driver, or if he had done things a little different,

806
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I bet I could get away with it. That is

807
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:56.760
<v Speaker 2>going to encourage copycats. Whereas if it is an immediate

808
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.440
<v Speaker 2>response that no, you will not get away, the FBI

809
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:02.599
<v Speaker 2>will hunt you down and find you wherever you are.

810
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:07.960
<v Speaker 2>That's a deterrent. Similarly, when we talk about punishment, Utah

811
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:12.360
<v Speaker 2>does permit capital punishment. I think it They have, you know,

812
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:16.440
<v Speaker 2>one of two methods, lethal injection or a healthy dose

813
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:20.840
<v Speaker 2>of thirty thirty to the cardiothorastic cavity. But either way,

814
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.159
<v Speaker 2>this man deserves to face the full consequences of the

815
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:28.320
<v Speaker 2>law for a couple of reasons. One, the blood of

816
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.760
<v Speaker 2>the innocent cries out for justice, right is Christians and

817
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, men of the West, we understand this. But

818
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:38.719
<v Speaker 2>another one is that, look, we've got to understand that

819
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:40.760
<v Speaker 2>it seems as if this guy was a bugman loser

820
00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.880
<v Speaker 2>keeping him inside for the rest of his life, especially

821
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.360
<v Speaker 2>given his sexual proclivities. Is I mean, is that any

822
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:51.880
<v Speaker 2>different from how he lived? Let's be honest, and again,

823
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.559
<v Speaker 2>we don't want to make this man into a sort

824
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.679
<v Speaker 2>of an uncle Ted figure, right, a guy we can

825
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:02.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, look at in Supermax and sort of view

826
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:06.360
<v Speaker 2>as our our lovable uncle. He needs to face the

827
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:10.360
<v Speaker 2>consequences for his actions. And one of the bizarre injustices,

828
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the bizarre indignities of modernity, is that even if convicted

829
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:16.679
<v Speaker 2>and you know, given a life sentence, it's likely to

830
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.280
<v Speaker 2>take ten to fifteen years and you know, two to

831
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.639
<v Speaker 2>five million dollars of our money, Pete, to make sure

832
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.239
<v Speaker 2>that he goes out the way he ought to. This

833
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:28.039
<v Speaker 2>is a topic I realize it's probably a little dicey

834
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:31.159
<v Speaker 2>to talk about on the internet. I believe in the

835
00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:34.039
<v Speaker 2>law exactly is written in the state of Utah. I'll

836
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:34.559
<v Speaker 2>leave it at that.

837
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, people need I think we've gotten to the

838
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 1>point where people want finality. I think a lot of

839
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:51.400
<v Speaker 1>people are hungry for you know, just come out and

840
00:51:51.400 --> 00:51:56.480
<v Speaker 1>say it's hungry for blood. They are. I think a

841
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.559
<v Speaker 1>lot of people are at the point where they don't

842
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:01.679
<v Speaker 1>care if things are in a certain way anymore, if

843
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:06.519
<v Speaker 1>they're done in a legitimate way. And yeah, I want

844
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:08.920
<v Speaker 1>to see things done in a legitimate way at least

845
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:11.920
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to this, when it comes to everything,

846
00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:13.920
<v Speaker 1>I want to see it done in a legitimate way,

847
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:20.639
<v Speaker 1>but that legitimate way is going to take will and

848
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, to go back to the fact that you

849
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 1>still have these networks out there, these networks are still operating,

850
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:33.280
<v Speaker 1>and you know, according to Mike Shelby, he doesn't really

851
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:40.599
<v Speaker 1>see them escalating, not yet. This could be something a

852
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:43.239
<v Speaker 1>reaction to it could be something you just never know.

853
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:52.239
<v Speaker 1>But if these networks aren't destroyed, we're we're looking at

854
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 1>living in a situation like Italy's Years of Lead. I

855
00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.719
<v Speaker 1>just re released an episode I did on that a

856
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.280
<v Speaker 1>couple of years ago. We're looking at like the early

857
00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:08.599
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirties Spain, where people are just people are just

858
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:14.440
<v Speaker 1>taken out, where you're just it's it can get to

859
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:19.360
<v Speaker 1>the point, unfortunately, and especially when the country is so

860
00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 1>divided and you have so many groups that have just

861
00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:28.320
<v Speaker 1>closed ranks, that somebody gets taken out and the only

862
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.000
<v Speaker 1>group that cares about it is that group, the group

863
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that that person belonged to. And yeah, it's comes a

864
00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:43.440
<v Speaker 1>time when you have to look at certain groups and

865
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:48.719
<v Speaker 1>they have to be legitimately targeted and legitimately their power

866
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.039
<v Speaker 1>has to be absolutely destroyed from the top down, and

867
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:57.559
<v Speaker 1>their worst elements have to be dealt with in a

868
00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:01.480
<v Speaker 1>very legitimate way by state actors. And you know, I

869
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:05.559
<v Speaker 1>just don't know whether we have people who have the

870
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:10.000
<v Speaker 1>will to do it, mostly because the system has been

871
00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:15.519
<v Speaker 1>set up up until now that these people drive the

872
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:20.119
<v Speaker 1>narrative that these people are the coddled ones, that these

873
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:24.280
<v Speaker 1>people are the golloms, that these are the people who

874
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:27.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, Uncle Ted talked about in the systems need

875
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:33.239
<v Speaker 1>at trick about that they just basically become the state

876
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:37.400
<v Speaker 1>where they can do as they please and get away

877
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:40.920
<v Speaker 1>with it, and or you know, you can invoke San

878
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Francis and you know, talk about a narco tyranny. But

879
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:52.400
<v Speaker 1>until a narco tyranny is destroyed and is looked down

880
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:56.280
<v Speaker 1>upon as much as you know, you look down upon

881
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.679
<v Speaker 1>child molested, you know, anyone who's promoting that, is promoting

882
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:05.239
<v Speaker 1>child molestation or anything like that, we're we're in chaos

883
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:09.800
<v Speaker 1>and we're basically headed toward. Yeah. I wouldn't say a

884
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.400
<v Speaker 1>mass civil war, I don't think that that's possible anymore,

885
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:16.960
<v Speaker 1>but definitely skirmishes like the Haymarket riots or like the

886
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.800
<v Speaker 1>years of Lead or you know, like the troubles.

887
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I just want to say mutual friend of ours,

888
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Carl dol wrote a very good essay you can find

889
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.599
<v Speaker 2>it on substack called it often rhymes but it doesn't repeat,

890
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:34.599
<v Speaker 2>comparing our current moment to the run up to the

891
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Spanish Civil War. I highly recommend that he's been on

892
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:42.960
<v Speaker 2>both of our shows a number of times. Read that essay. Look, man,

893
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.519
<v Speaker 2>I think you're one hundred percent right, because you've got

894
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:54.440
<v Speaker 2>to understand actions produce consequences. It's very basic. But when

895
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:59.079
<v Speaker 2>there is a rampump in political violence, it can and

896
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:02.960
<v Speaker 2>often does. The number of events that you've mentioned lead

897
00:56:03.079 --> 00:56:06.239
<v Speaker 2>to a cycle of tit for tat violence. You hit

898
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:09.800
<v Speaker 2>one of ours, we hit one of yours, and in

899
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:13.880
<v Speaker 2>an immediate sense, on the balance sheet of a conflict,

900
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.320
<v Speaker 2>that makes sense. You could say that those actors, within

901
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:21.960
<v Speaker 2>their bounded rationality are acting correctly. But look, man, we

902
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.039
<v Speaker 2>live here. We don't want to devolve into political violence.

903
00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Lady of Shalot Rip she did a great episode talking

904
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:34.880
<v Speaker 2>about growing up during the troubles, what that was like

905
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:38.840
<v Speaker 2>for young girl, and look, I liked her, she was

906
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:42.400
<v Speaker 2>a friend, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially

907
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:46.840
<v Speaker 2>not a countryman of ours. We don't need to do

908
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:51.440
<v Speaker 2>this it's something that can be prevented. It just requires

909
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.360
<v Speaker 2>a decision. It requires a leader. It requires someone to

910
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:58.559
<v Speaker 2>like Alexander, step up to the Gordian knot pull out

911
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:02.000
<v Speaker 2>their sword and chop in half, say the buck stops

912
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:06.920
<v Speaker 2>with me. We are this is no longer acceptable. We're done.

913
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:10.199
<v Speaker 2>That's what it takes. As we've been, you know, memed

914
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:12.920
<v Speaker 2>into oblivion. You can just do things, and this is

915
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:15.199
<v Speaker 2>something that can be done. Not to say that it

916
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:18.079
<v Speaker 2>isn't difficult, not to say that you won't face a

917
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.559
<v Speaker 2>pushback from within your own institutions, but to say this

918
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:24.639
<v Speaker 2>is a problem that can be fixed. There are people

919
00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:28.239
<v Speaker 2>in power right now who can fix it. The idea

920
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:31.639
<v Speaker 2>that this is beyond the scope of human possibility is

921
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.320
<v Speaker 2>it's absurd. It's so clearly not the case, because just

922
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:38.519
<v Speaker 2>like with Discord, we've seen what the FBI, with the DOJ,

923
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:44.559
<v Speaker 2>what our massive, absurdly large security apparatus can do when

924
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:47.719
<v Speaker 2>it wants to, when it wants to make someone's stay miserable,

925
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.360
<v Speaker 2>when it wants to pull an organization apart, it can

926
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:54.199
<v Speaker 2>do that. And if you don't, not only are you

927
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:57.039
<v Speaker 2>massively increasing the likelihood of you know, the kind of

928
00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:02.840
<v Speaker 2>civil conflict you were talking about. You were deciding I

929
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:06.760
<v Speaker 2>don't care enough. You were deciding it isn't worth the effort.

930
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:10.599
<v Speaker 2>You were deciding that it's not worth pursuing justice, isn't

931
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 2>worth it. And if that's your answer, fair enough. But

932
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:18.840
<v Speaker 2>you've lost my loyalty.

933
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know that

934
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:31.320
<v Speaker 1>there's much more to be said right now because there's

935
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:34.559
<v Speaker 1>nothing that you and I can do. We can scream

936
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:37.400
<v Speaker 1>as much as we can into these microphones, but we

937
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:41.360
<v Speaker 1>don't have the power to do that. Maybe there's someone listening.

938
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:47.679
<v Speaker 1>We know there's people listening. Come on, please just step

939
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.480
<v Speaker 1>up and do this, because we're not going I mean,

940
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:54.440
<v Speaker 1>this is not going to be a place where you're

941
00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:57.440
<v Speaker 1>going to want your children and your grandchildren raised in.

942
00:58:58.199 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 1>You're going to be it's going you're going to be

943
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:04.480
<v Speaker 1>like South Africa, where you are going to have to

944
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:08.719
<v Speaker 1>build gates and electric fences, and you're going to have

945
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to protect your house, and you're going to have to

946
00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:17.719
<v Speaker 1>bulletproof some things, bulletproof your house, bulletproof your vehicles. I mean,

947
00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:20.760
<v Speaker 1>that is the direction we're heading in. If these people

948
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:27.119
<v Speaker 1>do not step up and eliminate I mean eliminate these people,

949
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:29.760
<v Speaker 1>and I don't care what that is. Just do it

950
00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:33.199
<v Speaker 1>under the do it under the legitimacy of the state.

951
00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:43.559
<v Speaker 1>And if you don't, first of all, you're not gonna

952
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.360
<v Speaker 1>you're not gonna have the support of the people. You're

953
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:48.840
<v Speaker 1>going to lose the support of the people, and you're

954
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:55.519
<v Speaker 1>whatever legitimacy you have is gone. And two is just

955
00:59:56.599 --> 00:59:58.920
<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be safe for you. I mean,

956
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:04.239
<v Speaker 1>Charlie Kirk, who who's next? Who's next? I mean it's

957
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:07.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not saying if they can get to

958
01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Charlie Kirk, because Charlie Kirk doesn't have secret doesn't have

959
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:11.599
<v Speaker 1>secret service, but you.

960
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Know a lot of it who does have secrets.

961
01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but a lot of the people in this government

962
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:21.039
<v Speaker 1>love the fact that they can go out to nice

963
01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:23.480
<v Speaker 1>restaurants and they can go out and they can be

964
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:28.719
<v Speaker 1>in public, and that they can be whatever side you're on,

965
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:34.480
<v Speaker 1>you're sacrificing that for the future. You're you're looking at

966
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:37.079
<v Speaker 1>not being able to go out, or not being able

967
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.199
<v Speaker 1>to go out with an armed presence, not being able

968
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to go out with armed Yeah, with armed security, if

969
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:49.079
<v Speaker 1>you don't already have it, If that's the way you

970
01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:53.199
<v Speaker 1>want to live, okay, then fine, go ahead. It's going

971
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:55.559
<v Speaker 1>to affect you. It'll affect you less than it will

972
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:58.360
<v Speaker 1>than normal person, but it's still going to affect you.

973
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:01.679
<v Speaker 1>And nobody's going to nobody's gonna give you, nobody's gonna

974
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:04.039
<v Speaker 1>take you seriously. And that's all these people care about

975
01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:07.719
<v Speaker 1>is being taken seriously. And that's that's where we are.

976
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:11.400
<v Speaker 1>It's just the word. We've talked about a lot, and

977
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:14.159
<v Speaker 1>this is legitimacy, and things need to be done legitimately.

978
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:19.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's gone. That's gone after this. If you don't

979
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:23.480
<v Speaker 1>destroy these people, it's it's done. It's over right.

980
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:27.320
<v Speaker 2>It's a it's a simple binary. There are two paths forward.

981
01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Either you acquiesce, you roll over, you bite the pillow,

982
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you take it, or you decide we want to win,

983
01:01:36.039 --> 01:01:43.400
<v Speaker 2>we want to exist. And it's that simple. There. There

984
01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:46.840
<v Speaker 2>are two paths ahead of you, and for those in charge,

985
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:49.679
<v Speaker 2>they are the only ones who can make that decision.

986
01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:56.760
<v Speaker 1>All right, Jay Burden, tell everybody, Shill, tell everybody where

987
01:01:56.800 --> 01:01:58.400
<v Speaker 1>they can support your work and find your work.

988
01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the article we've mentioned is over at the

989
01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Old Glory Club. You can find them on substack. They

990
01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:07.440
<v Speaker 2>publish a great many fine articles, but my main output

991
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:10.800
<v Speaker 2>is The Jay Burden Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you

992
01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:13.760
<v Speaker 2>listen to podcasts. If you want my episodes early in

993
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.599
<v Speaker 2>ad free, you're gonna have to throw me a few bucks.

994
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:18.880
<v Speaker 2>You may be familiar with this business model. I shamelessly

995
01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:21.719
<v Speaker 2>stole it from Pete. So if you think what would

996
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Pete do? But slightly worse, it's the Jay Burden Show.

997
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Check it out.

998
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:36.280
<v Speaker 1>I didn't a response to that. All right, Jay, thank you.

999
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:37.159
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you.

1000
01:02:37.639 --> 01:03:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Sure thing man,