Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2: Do you do you in xact discuss which horrible Pitbull
Speaker 2: track you're gonna play and ruin everybody's day?
Speaker 1: Or do you just choose one occasionally? But this one
Speaker 1: was uh, this one was me. So you'll have to
Speaker 1: get the feedback from Zeke.
Speaker 2: Zach Harper on a Tuesday. You know what Tom it is?
Speaker 2: You already know because it's pit Bull. Do you do
Speaker 2: you have a like a mount rushmore of pitbull songs?
Speaker 2: Or do you celebrate their entire catalog?
Speaker 3: I mean I do celebrate the entire catalog. I don't
Speaker 3: know if I could tear it down to four that's
Speaker 3: asking a lot.
Speaker 1: Celebrate the entire catalog. Of course.
Speaker 2: Office Space Michael Bolton reference too good of a movie
Speaker 2: for cenaphobe.
Speaker 1: I would imagine, yeah, way too good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not even close to qualifying.
Speaker 2: Okay, while while we're in this space, I have begged Porter,
Speaker 2: my producer, to watch Off of Space for years and
Speaker 2: he simply won't do it.
Speaker 1: Will you get my back please? Will you get my back? Please?
Speaker 3: It's one of the funniest movies over.
Speaker 1: Thank you. See, I told you I'll watch what I'll
Speaker 1: watch it.
Speaker 3: I'll watch what's it today?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Leave, just go, I'll watch it right now.
Speaker 3: You guys got this?
Speaker 1: I very much don't. If he's not here, I don't
Speaker 1: know what I would do.
Speaker 2: Zach Harper, Tuesday afternoon, better known as NBA Cup Championship Day.
Speaker 1: What's the level of buzz for you for Bucks Thunder tonight?
Speaker 3: Oh? It's an eleven out of ten? Easily easily eleven
Speaker 3: out of ten? How could you not be excited for this?
Speaker 3: You know what I love about this this final, now
Speaker 3: that we have our second one, is that it counts,
Speaker 3: but it doesn't count right Like it counts for these
Speaker 3: guys will win money. If they win, they get the Cup,
Speaker 3: they have to raise a banner. It sounds like no
Speaker 3: matter where you are. We saw that with the Lakers
Speaker 3: last year. But this is this is what we're like.
Speaker 3: Giannice could score one hundred points tonight and it doesn't
Speaker 3: count in the record books. And I love that. I
Speaker 3: love that it's in this weird state of like limbo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, It's something that I'm sure will continue
Speaker 2: to evolve. I wonder if do you ever believe like,
Speaker 2: twenty years from now, dudes will look at this as
Speaker 2: not close to the Larry O'Brien, but something that really
Speaker 2: has value because the parallel that's always drawn is like
Speaker 2: the FA Cup in the Premiership, or it's the US
Speaker 2: Open Cup here with MLS.
Speaker 1: I know you're a big soccer guy, so you're.
Speaker 2: Following me, right, and those trophies do have appeal, but
Speaker 2: they don't have the same appeal as like winning the league.
Speaker 2: What's the best case scenario for NBA basketball years from
Speaker 2: now with this project they've started.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it will take time. I
Speaker 3: think it will take a generation of fans coming through
Speaker 3: and having this be a regular thing. Like you know,
Speaker 3: people like us. We can like it, we can be
Speaker 3: excited about it, we can buy into it, but it's
Speaker 3: never going to hold the feeling of a true like
Speaker 3: championship for a tournament the way the way it does
Speaker 3: in other leagues around the around the world. But it
Speaker 3: doesn't it doesn't mean it won't hold value for the
Speaker 3: people who win it. I do think there will be
Speaker 3: a point where you're right, It's never going to be
Speaker 3: the Larry O'Brian troupe, but there will be times, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, ten to fifteen, twenty years from now,
Speaker 3: where yeah. Has it absolutely has meaning and the teams.
Speaker 2: Won it all right, Well, we do have a good matchup.
Speaker 2: I suppose it could be worse. But before we get
Speaker 2: to the game, I did watch some of the semi
Speaker 2: final and it felt like a corporate all star crowd.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so I think that's a problem, Zach. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the answer would be.
Speaker 2: But since we're both smart basketball guys and we're still
Speaker 2: waiting for people to take us up on our, you know,
Speaker 2: our offer to come in and clean up the franchise
Speaker 2: with our side hustle, could you do something like you
Speaker 2: reward the fan bases for teams that have advanced and
Speaker 2: send I don't know, a couple thousand Hawks fans or
Speaker 2: whatever to make it feel like it's not just a
Speaker 2: bunch of corporate suits sitting on their hands or their phone.
Speaker 2: I mean, the atmosphere was underwhelming for the semis.
Speaker 3: For sure, it was super indowement. I think the games
Speaker 3: were great, but the atmosphere it didn't feel like anything right.
Speaker 3: And I think, I think, you know, I actually have
Speaker 3: this this here's a little preview of the bouncer free
Speaker 3: newsletter at the Athletic for tomorrow. I actually asked Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 3: He's at Network on Twitter and all these social media spots,
Speaker 3: does a great podcast called Six Trophies with h Serano.
Speaker 3: Like Jason is really smart with the stuff. He follows
Speaker 3: soccer even more than you and I do. And he
Speaker 3: had this great suggestion of in in you know what,
Speaker 3: the euro leagues in soccer and everything, they have these
Speaker 3: official and unofficial kind of fan clubs right for each team,
Speaker 3: and when you get to these tournaments, they find ways
Speaker 3: to get those people kind of what you're talking about,
Speaker 3: to get those people into those matches in order to
Speaker 3: have a real environment. And the NBA absolutely has to
Speaker 3: do that, Like this can't just feel like another All
Speaker 3: Star crowd or anything like that. Like it has to
Speaker 3: feel like something that's special for the fans in order
Speaker 3: for people to buy in. And I think that's a
Speaker 3: great way of doing it. And didn't they just sign
Speaker 3: a seventy six billion dollar deal. I think they could
Speaker 3: afford to get the teams to like get a couple
Speaker 3: thousand fans of theirs two Vegas to at least have
Speaker 3: that moment and that support within the within the arena.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the NBA's profit and lost statements. You know,
Speaker 2: the hot button topic in media over the past week
Speaker 2: or so has been the ever declining ratings of NBA
Speaker 2: regular season, And of course they are trying things.
Speaker 1: It's not like they're not doing anything.
Speaker 2: But I'm of the opinion, Zach, the revenue streams created
Speaker 2: with the international interest in basketball kind of allows the
Speaker 2: NBA to look at the domestic ratings with a bit
Speaker 2: of like a not necessarily we don't care, but we're
Speaker 2: going to be fine no matter what. It is the
Speaker 2: second biggest sport globally. The Sports Business Journal out a
Speaker 2: good piece over the weekend. Soccer is still the world game,
Speaker 2: as you know, and basketball is two. So really, you know,
Speaker 2: people can bellyache about the ratings all they want, but
Speaker 2: it just feels like the money that comes in from
Speaker 2: overseas that expedites potentially something compromising domestically just allows the
Speaker 2: NBA to'll kind of laugh at conversations like this.
Speaker 1: Is that is that fair to say? And is that
Speaker 1: good business?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think that's fair to say. They
Speaker 3: just signed seventy six billion dollars deal with low ratings,
Speaker 3: right right, Like I don't I gotta be honest, Like
Speaker 3: I want people to to watch basketball. I want people
Speaker 3: to celebrate basketball. I want people to be into it
Speaker 3: like I am and like you are, Like it matters
Speaker 3: to me. I just can't care about ratings anymore. Like
Speaker 3: the league is doing really well. They just signed a
Speaker 3: historic deal, not like, yes, they get their bus kicked
Speaker 3: by the NFL every damn time there's there's any kind
Speaker 3: of conflict and even when there isn't, Like you just
Speaker 3: compare the numbers. It's not close. Fine, but yes, you're
Speaker 3: you're right, Like internationally seems to make up for it
Speaker 3: and then some and then on top of that, aren't
Speaker 3: they kind of like getting back in with China now,
Speaker 3: like that that's more money that's gonna come in, right,
Speaker 3: that's more interest. Like I just I think from a
Speaker 3: global standpoint, it's fine. I think from a US standpoint, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's disappointing, but they're doing fine. Like the salaries are
Speaker 3: going up, the salary caps going up, the league is
Speaker 3: getting all this money. I just I don't think it's
Speaker 3: an actual issue until they have to start peeling back
Speaker 3: some of this financial progress.
Speaker 2: Well, and it also comes down to you know where
Speaker 2: your yard is at, where your feet are at. We
Speaker 2: we had Tom Haberstrow on your buddy Tom on yesterday,
Speaker 2: and we were kind of reflecting back because if you
Speaker 2: really pay attention to how profitable the business is based
Speaker 2: off of what you just said with the TV deal,
Speaker 2: and then you listen carefully, sometimes people on the inside
Speaker 2: of the league, players and coaches and execs will say,
Speaker 2: as the kids say, the quiet part out loud. And
Speaker 2: when a couple of years ago, after the MAVs were
Speaker 2: eliminated from the postseason and Jason Kidd took the dais
Speaker 2: and said, what you guys don't get is we're millionaires
Speaker 2: cheering for each other.
Speaker 1: I just went, oh, like yep, Like we know, Jason.
Speaker 2: But you know, like there is this feel from people
Speaker 2: that are in the league that kind of laugh at
Speaker 2: everybody else to believe that because you're not the NFL,
Speaker 2: you're in trouble when these guys are essentially living the
Speaker 2: life they always want to live.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean I saw I think Andrew Schleck, who's who's
Speaker 3: a great, you know, thunder person for the Athletics, does
Speaker 3: a great job with our audio and stuff. I saw
Speaker 3: him on a on a clip of something saying that
Speaker 3: the next contract that Shake Gilders Alexander signs he's gonna
Speaker 3: be the first eighty million dollar a year player. Do
Speaker 3: you think shake Gilders Alexander thinks, like, oh no, these
Speaker 3: ratings are low, of course, not like Jason Kidd was
Speaker 3: right about that, Like you're what you're saying is correct, Like, yes,
Speaker 3: there could be a bubble that burst at some point.
Speaker 3: I do think the league does a poor job of
Speaker 3: marketing itself. They don't know what to do when it's
Speaker 3: not Lebron and Stephan kd These are all issues. This
Speaker 3: Thunder team should be super popular around the entire league,
Speaker 3: the entire world. Everything that Like, they have a bunch
Speaker 3: of issues, but the money keeps rolling in. It's it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I've talked about this with with Trey Young
Speaker 3: and Karl Anthony Towns and everything, where people are like, hey,
Speaker 3: they should be better at this and they should be
Speaker 3: doing this to you know, affect winning and change these habits.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, I'm with you, But when you're
Speaker 3: signing two hundred three million dollar deals, how can I
Speaker 3: tell you you're wrong in the way that you do this right?
Speaker 3: Like until the money stops coming in the way it is,
Speaker 3: I just don't I don't see the actual fear of
Speaker 3: these low ratings or any of the stuff.
Speaker 2: And this is always, Zach what I come back to
Speaker 2: whenever anybody does the whole like, well, the game was
Speaker 2: different in the nineties and people played more games in
Speaker 2: the nineties. You want to know why players had to
Speaker 2: pay for play for paychecks in a way they don't
Speaker 2: have to play for paychecks back now. Back then were
Speaker 2: they were their exceptions where they're the you know, they
Speaker 2: were the You had the Jordans, you had the Ewings,
Speaker 2: you had the guys that made big money, but you
Speaker 2: had I can remember this vividly, you had a lot
Speaker 2: of players in real financial issues that had to get
Speaker 2: paid twice a month. So therefore, yes, they were going
Speaker 2: to show up and play. The reason it feels different
Speaker 2: is because the money is different. You always follow the
Speaker 2: money if you want the.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, like a perfect example, like you know, from
Speaker 3: what ninety six to ninety eight or whatever, Jordan made
Speaker 3: thirty a year, right, thirty million a year, and yes,
Speaker 3: inflation all this, I get all that, Like, I don't
Speaker 3: need that explained, but to put that in perspective, Ben
Speaker 3: Simmons makes forty million dollars, this year and I was
Speaker 3: shocked he played as many as thirty one minutes last night.
Speaker 3: That's where we are. That's where inflation is, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that's that's just the case, Like you're right, they had
Speaker 3: to play for their careers now, you know, back then
Speaker 3: now it's you know, and I don't think it's any like. Look,
Speaker 3: there are parts of the nineties game and all the
Speaker 3: all the nostalgia stuff I love. There are also parts
Speaker 3: where I look at him like that's a bad product,
Speaker 3: Like we romanticize it, right, And there are times with
Speaker 3: the current NBA, I think this is great, and there
Speaker 3: are times and like, yeah, that's a bad product at times, right,
Speaker 3: Like you're always going to have those ebbs and flows.
Speaker 3: But you can't tell me these players are in trouble.
Speaker 3: The league's in trouble when all this money keeps coming in.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: And also to add to that, you know, it's very
Speaker 2: easy for anybody on the outside, whether it's fans or
Speaker 2: media to criticize, you know, players that don't appear to
Speaker 2: be motivated to play, or players that appear they're just
Speaker 2: kind of going through the motions. Any one of us
Speaker 2: with that type of money in the bank, Like if
Speaker 2: I knew I had a seventy million dollar guaranteed deal.
Speaker 2: Twice a week, I'd show up and make fart noises
Speaker 2: for four hours in the microphone.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not, you know, I'd look like I looked
Speaker 3: like Orlando Sean Kemp out there constantly.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's it's hard to blame them when the
Speaker 2: money's there.
Speaker 1: So I'm not, I'm not. I'm not judging.
Speaker 2: I guess what it is is from a basketball fan standpoint,
Speaker 2: there's really nothing better than basketball when it's played by
Speaker 2: the best players in the world who care.
Speaker 1: And I would just I would like some more of
Speaker 1: that is all.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would too, Like, don't get me wrong, I'm
Speaker 3: not absolving these players. I just understand it, right, that's
Speaker 3: human nature. Like we've seen that, you know, for decades
Speaker 3: and decades and decades, and and they're you know, yes,
Speaker 3: Like there was a game last night Denver Sacramento that
Speaker 3: was one of the best games I've seen in the year. Yep, right,
Speaker 3: it was incredible. Denver up big in the first quarter,
Speaker 3: Kings come back the last seven possessions of the game
Speaker 3: until Jamar DeRozan missed on the final play. Seven lead
Speaker 3: changes on seven straight possessions like it was incredible, and
Speaker 3: if we had more games like that, like, yes, you could,
Speaker 3: you could justify all this stuff. We don't. Those are
Speaker 3: highs and lows. Like I said, the ebbs and flows
Speaker 3: of it all. I just like people's watching habits are
Speaker 3: different and we've just got to accept that. And I
Speaker 3: think the way to change that is for people to
Speaker 3: make the games actually matter. That means the media. That
Speaker 3: means the fans, That means the players, that means the coaches,
Speaker 3: that means the teams, that means the league, and the
Speaker 3: league again just does a bad job of promoting itself.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, all this money just came in.
Speaker 3: How can you tell them they're doing a bad job.
Speaker 1: And that's always going to be the bottom line.
Speaker 2: I can bark about their issues, they send me their
Speaker 2: P and L statement, and then they just dropped the mic,
Speaker 2: and I get it, right. You know Tom's point yesterday was,
Speaker 2: you know, basketball in the NBA is at its best
Speaker 2: when there are compelling stories to be told. And you
Speaker 2: reference to Oklahoma City, and I don't think their story
Speaker 2: is being told enough because every time I dial in,
Speaker 2: I just think this team. You know what, Sam Presty
Speaker 2: has done, and you guys released the front office rankings
Speaker 2: and OKAC was at the top deservedly. So what Sam
Speaker 2: has done to build this thing to be awesome now
Speaker 2: and potentially awesome forever with everything they have in their
Speaker 2: back pocket is pretty stunning. And every time I hone
Speaker 2: in on them, I do feel like we might be
Speaker 2: high speed ahead. Even though we talk about the era
Speaker 2: of parody to OKAC in Boston, I'm not sure anybody
Speaker 2: can do anything about it. Tim McMahon hopped on the
Speaker 2: show earlier. He dropped the stat OKAC is seventeen and
Speaker 2: two when they have a seven foot are available either
Speaker 2: chet or heart and steam like they're they're insanely good.
Speaker 2: What stands out most about not just in a vacuum,
Speaker 2: but thirty thousand feet about what Sam has built.
Speaker 3: I think it's the dominance right Like the versatility in
Speaker 3: the dominance is just so apparent. Twenty wins right now,
Speaker 3: seventeen of them are by double digits. They have a
Speaker 3: net rating like think about the Warriors with Kevin Durant,
Speaker 3: think about the Boston Celtics last year, think about the
Speaker 3: Miami Heat with the Big Three, think about all these
Speaker 3: dominant teams we've seen over the last twenty years. There
Speaker 3: are three teams in NBA history instead of a higher
Speaker 3: margin of victory than this thunder team. It's like the
Speaker 3: seventy one Bucks, the seventy two Lakers, and the ninety
Speaker 3: six Bulls. That's it. Like they are dominant no matter what.
Speaker 3: Chests out, No big deal. Isaiah Hartenstein's out, No big deal,
Speaker 3: Shay's having an off night, no big deal. Like it
Speaker 3: just doesn't matter. This team is so well coached, so
Speaker 3: well run. Like I mean, I'll just throw this name
Speaker 3: out there now because I didn't know who he was
Speaker 3: before the season. He's some rookie for them, and not
Speaker 3: even like a high draft pick or anything. This dude
Speaker 3: aj Mitchell. I watch their games and AJ Mitchell comes
Speaker 3: in for like eight minutes and plays great basketball. I'm like,
Speaker 3: who is this guy? How did they find him? Like
Speaker 3: they just it doesn't matter who they play. There's few
Speaker 3: teams around the league, you know, Boston's this way. Orlando
Speaker 3: has become this way despite the injuries. Oka see is
Speaker 3: this way. It is truly like that cliche of next
Speaker 3: man up. When someone's out, they embody it, they embrace it,
Speaker 3: They thrive with it. And I think Oka See is
Speaker 3: the best example of that right now. I think the
Speaker 3: best thing that I like, I get markets and all
Speaker 3: this crap. If you want the best basketball, the best
Speaker 3: thing that could happen for the NBA right now as
Speaker 3: things stand is Celtics Thunder in the finals. That would
Speaker 3: be sort of the best basketball We'll ever get.
Speaker 1: On board with that.
Speaker 2: Man, give me seven games or not more if that's possible,
Speaker 2: but it's not.
Speaker 1: But for sure, I'd love to see those two teams play.
Speaker 2: And you know, in the name of trying to tell
Speaker 2: a compelling story, this is essentially my eighteenth year doing
Speaker 2: live radio full time, my twenty second year doing any
Speaker 2: sort of radio part time for four years.
Speaker 1: You know the deal, you got to do part time
Speaker 1: for a while.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I've ever been more challenged to
Speaker 2: tell a compel, compelling story about our pro basket here
Speaker 2: in Salt Lake. Look, man, I'm watching the game last
Speaker 2: night and I never tap out. Hardin was shooting practice
Speaker 2: three point shots. They were down like forty. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: I'm not watching this. Yeah, is there a compelling story?
Speaker 2: It's in three years they are starting front court is
Speaker 2: Lowry Marketing, Cooper Flag and aj DEBANSA. Maybe that's compelling.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's compelling about the Jazz this year, Zach.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: There was a point last so I you know, I'm
Speaker 3: I'm locked into to Nuggets Kings last night, and it's
Speaker 3: just this incredible finish that I couldn't believe the Rosen
Speaker 3: missed that shot. You know, kind of a bunny, a
Speaker 3: tough shot, but it's still kind of a bunny at
Speaker 3: the same time, he should make that, and I'm just like, man,
Speaker 3: I like even I was like, I need a cigarette
Speaker 3: after this, right, Like that was basketball euphor you It
Speaker 3: was great. And then the only game that's left is
Speaker 3: Clippers Jazz, and I'll admit I hadn't watched the first
Speaker 3: like forty minutes of it. I turn it on. The
Speaker 3: Clippers are up thirty eight at that point, with about
Speaker 3: eight or ten minutes ago. I can't remember exactly what
Speaker 3: it was, but they're up thirty eight and I and
Speaker 3: I actually wondered. I thought, if they pulled three athletic
Speaker 3: fans from the wall in that arena and had them
Speaker 3: with two other Clippers players anyone's choice, could they keep
Speaker 3: this thing above twenty for three minutes like that, And
Speaker 3: part of that is the Clippers are playing really well,
Speaker 3: and part of that is the Jazz. Just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, Like I I've covered some bad
Speaker 3: teams before, Like I covered the Kings during the you know,
Speaker 3: the early Tyreek Evans years, which at least like he
Speaker 3: was compelling. So there was that. I covered the Minnesota
Speaker 3: Timberwolves to the point where I wrote about so many
Speaker 3: twenty five point losses during the season that one night,
Speaker 3: I think against the Grizzlies, I just said I'm gonna
Speaker 3: write about hand dryers in public restrooms instead, and eventually
Speaker 3: found a tie in to the Timberwolves. But like I
Speaker 3: was just ranking, like this is what I think is
Speaker 3: a good one. I hate that, like that one like
Speaker 3: continuous cloth that just keeps going through this alleged sanitizer,
Speaker 3: Like that's like a typhoid rag to me, Like I
Speaker 3: hate that. Like there were all these things I wondered about.
Speaker 3: But yeah, when you're covering a bad team, like there's
Speaker 3: just not a way to make them interesting unless there's
Speaker 3: a player that supersedes all that, and they just don't
Speaker 3: have that right now.
Speaker 1: No, they don't.
Speaker 2: And we'll land on this because I read your piece
Speaker 2: today at the gym Rear Delt Fly Day. It's not
Speaker 2: a big deal. If you want my workout, I'll send
Speaker 2: it to you. It's pretty impressive. I told you Saturday,
Speaker 2: I told you over the weekend. You know, if you
Speaker 2: want before and after photos, you know, just hit me
Speaker 2: up off air.
Speaker 1: But I did read today that you wrote just you know,
Speaker 1: keep your phone on.
Speaker 2: Later on you wrote potential trades and you name three
Speaker 2: jazz players, John Collins, Colin sext and Jordan Clarkson. What
Speaker 2: sort of interest do you think there really legitimately is
Speaker 2: on the market for those three jazz players And do
Speaker 2: you think that it's a good shot one or all
Speaker 2: three get moved.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's tough to read this market right
Speaker 3: now because it is so new. I think they're trying
Speaker 3: to figure out is Butler really available? Is brandon Ingram
Speaker 3: really someone you want to go get? You know, there's
Speaker 3: just all this there's oh sho, sorry, tugs them with her,
Speaker 3: about to go nuts. There's just all these all these
Speaker 3: issues with it. But I think I think for the
Speaker 3: jazz they're kind of towards the end of those dominoes falling.
Speaker 3: I think Collins, maybe Sexton maybe. I don't think Jordan
Speaker 3: Clarkson has much value at this point, but we do have,
Speaker 3: we do have potential for a lot of moves, or
Speaker 3: the CBA to just not allow it at all.
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, go ten to those dogs. We'll set
Speaker 1: you loose. Appreciate the time metal checks in, all right.
Speaker 2: Zach Harper from The Athletic writes a daily piece and
Speaker 2: a daily newsletter, and today it was all about the
Speaker 2: trade market. You can find it up on his Twitter page,
Speaker 2: which is at tak hoops NBA Cup Final tonight. Did
Speaker 2: you guys even know bos thunder U Dame? We can
Speaker 2: watch for Dame, right, We love Dame around here. Milwaukee's
Speaker 2: kind of turned some things around.