Speaker 1: This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
Speaker 1: of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya.
Speaker 2: Hi this is Shannon, and we are.
Speaker 1: Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you?
Speaker 1: I am doing well today?
Speaker 2: How are you good? Good? Not too shabby?
Speaker 1: That's awesome, you know, just kind of cruising.
Speaker 2: We're in November now, yes, daylight savings time. Yeah. Oh
Speaker 2: it's been dark since gosh, what five five thirty, So
Speaker 2: I have no idea what time it is.
Speaker 1: I know it could be ten pm, it could be six,
Speaker 1: could be two ways. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I have zero idea. So it's all been good.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to get used to.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like I've been feeling a little bit
Speaker 2: of like lead jackety, you know, it was just like drainy.
Speaker 2: Still feel a little congested just all around. I don't
Speaker 2: have a bug. I'm not sick, thank god, but I'm
Speaker 2: not feeling not feeling Shannon. Yeah, you know, it's more
Speaker 2: like Shannon, I'm tired. Yeah, I have to sleep immediately,
Speaker 2: and I have no energy. You know what it's the sun.
Speaker 2: I gotta add vitamin D.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it makes me a lot of people, they say,
Speaker 1: a large population in Michigan we suffer from vitamin D deficiency.
Speaker 1: So yes, kelcapri.
Speaker 2: Cal's sapriz money. But what she got? Where is this week? Oh?
Speaker 1: I have a terrible story that comes out of Canada.
Speaker 1: It's not very old. It's from twenty fourteen, so this century.
Speaker 1: And before I start, I would just like to remind
Speaker 1: everyone to hit the subscriber follow on whatever app you're
Speaker 1: listening to. So are you ready?
Speaker 2: I'm ready? Okay.
Speaker 1: At first, there was only quiet. It was the kind
Speaker 1: of silence that doesn't belong in a house where a
Speaker 1: five year old has just spent the night. The kitchen
Speaker 1: clock ticked softly in the background. The air felt still.
Speaker 1: The hallway smelled faintly of metal and something sour. Jennifer
Speaker 1: O'Brien stood at the threshold of her parents' home and felt,
Speaker 1: before she understood, that something was terribly wrong. She'd come
Speaker 1: early that Monday morning, June thirtieth, twenty fourteen, to pick
Speaker 1: up her son, Nathan. The long weekend had been full.
Speaker 1: Her parents, Elvin and Catherine Likeness, were preparing to move,
Speaker 1: sorting through boxes and memories, and they had held an
Speaker 1: estate sale that drew neighbor's friends and the curious. Nathan
Speaker 1: had begged to stay overnight. He loved his grandparents fiercely,
Speaker 1: the pancakes in the morning, the stories at bedtime, the
Speaker 1: special attention that only grandparents can give. Jennifer relented. One night,
Speaker 1: she said, I'll see you in the morning. Now it
Speaker 1: was morning and they were gone. She took a few
Speaker 1: steps inside. A chair was overturned, A framed photograph lay
Speaker 1: face down on the floor. In the guest room, she
Speaker 1: noticed a sheet twisted at the corner of the mattress,
Speaker 1: a patch of carpet discolored by something she couldn't name.
Speaker 1: Her mind raced through possibilities, a medical emergency, a break in,
Speaker 1: but the front door hadn't been forced, and the keys
Speaker 1: still hung on the hook by the entrance. When she
Speaker 1: called nine one one, her voice shook. My parents and
Speaker 1: my son are missing, she said, there's blood in the house.
Speaker 1: Within an hour, Calgary police were unseen. By mid morning,
Speaker 1: yellow tape fluttered in the suburban breeze, and neighbors stood
Speaker 1: on lawns, whispering and disbelief. By afternoon, an amber alert
Speaker 1: went out across Alberta, the longest one ever issued in
Speaker 1: the province's history. Billboards, television crawls, radio stations, and cell
Speaker 1: phones repeated the same message, missing Nathan O'Brien, five years old,
Speaker 1: last scene with grandparents Alvin and Catherine likeness. The news
Speaker 1: spread with the velocity of panic. Parents double checked their doors.
Speaker 1: Grandparents clutched their grandchildren tighter. Calgary, a city that prided
Speaker 1: itself on safety, prosperity, and community, found itself staring into
Speaker 1: a void. By the first week of July twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: Ulgrey's collective anxiety had curled into dread. The amber alert,
Speaker 1: still active, still unanswered, had entered its fifth day. Police
Speaker 1: had received more than one thousand tips from across Alberta
Speaker 1: and neighboring provinces, but nothing led to the missing family.
Speaker 1: In the city's southwest quadrant, a home on thirty eight
Speaker 1: A Avenue had become a monument to absence. Reporters lingered
Speaker 1: outside the air, heavy with questions. Volunteers taped missing posters
Speaker 1: to lamp posts. Their corners curling in the dry prairie wind,
Speaker 1: each bore the same smiling faces, A bright eyed little
Speaker 1: boy and his grandparents, the kind of image that gnaweded
Speaker 1: even the most stoic viewer, and then came the name
Speaker 1: Douglas Garland, the first solid lead since the disappearance. On
Speaker 1: July first, Canada Day, detectives arrived at a modest acreage
Speaker 1: near Airdrie, Alberta, about twenty five miles north of Calgary.
Speaker 1: The property, hemmed in by willows and rusting machinery, belonged
Speaker 1: to the Garland family. Duglin Garland lived there with his
Speaker 1: elderly parents, Arthur and Gwendolen. The family kept largely to
Speaker 1: themselves to neighbors. Douglas was ad but harmless, a middle
Speaker 1: aged man who tinkered with engines and electronics. He was
Speaker 1: known to make late night runs into Calgary for supplies,
Speaker 1: but rarely stayed long enough to speak. What few remembered
Speaker 1: was his past, the aliases, the fraud, the failed life
Speaker 1: experiments that had accumulated like junk around the farm. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, Garland had vanished for nearly seven years
Speaker 1: after a drug related arrest, living under a false identity
Speaker 1: in British Columbia. Before being caught. He had studied science
Speaker 1: and university but never completed his degree. People described him
Speaker 1: as intelligent, mechanical minded, but emotionally stunted, and he carried
Speaker 1: grudges like Talismans. Years earlier, Garland had collaborated with Alvin
Speaker 1: Likeness on a pump design for oil and gas extraction.
Speaker 1: When Likeness filed for his own patent in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven, Garland felt robbed. Family members would later testify
Speaker 1: that he'd spoken bitterly about Alvin for years, referring to
Speaker 1: him with disdain. That resentment had festered long enough to
Speaker 1: become obsession. The first time officers visited the Garland farm,
Speaker 1: Douglas was polite, cooperative even He told them he hadn't
Speaker 1: seen the Likenesses in years, but detectives noticed small inconsistencies
Speaker 1: in his story. He referred to the Likeness's estate sale
Speaker 1: before police had made that information public. He stammered when
Speaker 1: asked about his whereabouts the night of June twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: Police returned the next day with a search warrant. What
Speaker 1: they found deepened their knees, tire tracks matching those seen
Speaker 1: outside the Likeness home, shoes with a tread pattern resembling
Speaker 1: one found in blood at the crime scene, a burn
Speaker 1: barrel filled with partially melted plastic and unrecognizable debris. In
Speaker 1: Garland's workshop, investigators discovered a trove of comical containers, cutting tools,
Speaker 1: and a small homemade incinerator behind the house. In an
Speaker 1: overgrown patch of grass, searchers found what appeared to be
Speaker 1: drag marks, as if something heavy had been pulled across
Speaker 1: the soil. It was enough to detain Garland for questioning.
Speaker 1: The breakthrough came from what the forensic team called trace
Speaker 1: persistence in Layman's terms, no one cleans perfectly. When specialists
Speaker 1: combed through Garland's garbage, they found faint, reddish smea on
Speaker 1: the edge of a tool chest. They swabbed it. The
Speaker 1: DNA matched Nathan O'Brien. Further testing identified Alvin and Catherine
Speaker 1: in separate samples throughout the property, on a saw, a
Speaker 1: pair of rubber boots, and inside a truck bed. The
Speaker 1: evidence suggested a night of methodical brutality. Forensic testimony later
Speaker 1: described the sequence as quote abduction, transport, homicide, disposal end quote.
Speaker 1: It was a kind of language meant to strip away emotion,
Speaker 1: but everyone in the room knew what it meant. Police
Speaker 1: returned to the likeness home. With new eyes, they reconstructed
Speaker 1: the scene from blood spatter and scuff marks. The evidence
Speaker 1: told a grim story. Garland entered after midnight, subdued the likenesses,
Speaker 1: and abducted all three, taking Nathan because he was a witness.
Speaker 1: He loaded them into his pickup drove norm and brought
Speaker 1: them to his property, where the killings occurred within hours.
Speaker 1: The bodies were never found. On July fourteenth, twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: Calgary Police announced that Douglas Garland had been charged with
Speaker 1: three counts of first degree murder. At the press conference,
Speaker 1: Chief Rick Hanson spoke slowly, visibly worn by the investigation.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 1: We believe we have the evidence to support that these
Speaker 1: individuals are deceased, he said, and we believe we have
Speaker 1: the same person responsible in custody end quote. The words
Speaker 1: landed like thunder. For two weeks, Calgary had held out hope, fragile,
Speaker 1: irrational hope that Nathan and his grandparents might still be alive,
Speaker 1: that maybe somehow there'd been a ransom, a misunderstanding, a
Speaker 1: miracle waiting to unfold. That hope died with Hanson's statement,
Speaker 1: Jennifer O'Brien wept publicly that day. Her grief, raw and
Speaker 1: defiant quote. I know my son is with my parents.
Speaker 1: I know they're together. End quote. In the weeks that followed,
Speaker 1: the city became a kind of memorial. Children left toy
Speaker 1: cars and teddy bears outside the Likeness home. Sidewalk chalks
Speaker 1: spelled love for Nathan. Churches held vigils, candles burned on porches.
Speaker 1: Strangers embraced it intersections. It wasn't just grief, It was
Speaker 1: disbelief that such a thing could happen here, to people
Speaker 1: like this, in a neighborhood that it always seemed immune
Speaker 1: to tragedy. Reporters wrote of the Calgary stillness, a collective
Speaker 1: quiet that hung over the city that summer. Even after
Speaker 1: Garland's arrest, the missing bodies left a hollow space in
Speaker 1: every headline. No one wanted to believe that a little
Speaker 1: boy's sleepover, that simplest, sweetest act of family, could end
Speaker 1: in such horror, but the evidence was undeniable. The monsters,
Speaker 1: it turned out, didn't always live from home. The Garland
Speaker 1: farm sat at the edge of a gravel road that
Speaker 1: dusted out towards the prairie horizon, an ordinary Alberta acreage
Speaker 1: until police began to dig. In July twenty fourteen, the
Speaker 1: Calgary Police Service transformed the Quiet Air Dree property into
Speaker 1: one of the largest crime scenes in Canadian history. For
Speaker 1: eight weeks, investigators sifted through soil, ash and metal scraps.
Speaker 1: They cataloged every fragment, every burn pile, every stain. What
Speaker 1: they found was a geography of horror. Detectives called it
Speaker 1: the search of a lifetime. More than one hundred officers,
Speaker 1: forensic technicians, and evidence recovery experts rotated through twelve hour shifts.
Speaker 1: They combed through barns, sheds and fields. Specialized anthropologists from
Speaker 1: the University of Alberta were brought in to identify bone fragments,
Speaker 1: while fire andats mapped burn patterns across the site. They
Speaker 1: unearthed thousands of items, a child's toothbrush, scorched fabric, and
Speaker 1: the remains of power tools modified in disturbing ways. At
Speaker 1: the center of the property was the clearing where Garland
Speaker 1: had built what he called a burn barrel, a makeshift
Speaker 1: incinerator fashioned from an old oil drum. Within it, police
Speaker 1: found the remains of a small chain, a button from
Speaker 1: children's pajamas, and traces of blood. Just beyond the main yard,
Speaker 1: a second burn site stretched into the treeline. The ground
Speaker 1: had been disturbed, the ash layer thick with melted plastic
Speaker 1: and metal shards. When sifted through fine screens, the soil
Speaker 1: revealed microscopic bone fragments, calcigned by fire and impossible to
Speaker 1: identify through DNA. By the end of the eighth week,
Speaker 1: searchers had recovered more than six hundred bone fragments, none
Speaker 1: larger than a fingertip. If the farm was the final chapter,
Speaker 1: the basement of the Garland homed was the prologue. The
Speaker 1: scene of confinement. In a locked room beneath the stairs,
Speaker 1: police discovered a cot, zip ties and restraints. Nearby was
Speaker 1: a small table holding chemical containers, latex gloves, and duct tape.
Speaker 1: Forensic biologists later testified that they found DNA belonging to
Speaker 1: all three victims in the room, particularly on the floor
Speaker 1: and the bindings. One detective called it a chamber of control.
Speaker 1: They also found medical books and online printouts about dismemberment
Speaker 1: and incineration techniques. Garland had apparently researched bone ash disposal
Speaker 1: and destroying DNA and fire. He wasn't impulsive, he was methodical.
Speaker 1: By the time the trial began, in January twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: prosecutors had assembled a narrative built from fragments physical, digital,
Speaker 1: and psychological. They called it a case without bodies. In
Speaker 1: place of corpses, there were ashes in place of eyewitnesses.
Speaker 1: There were traces the kind of forensic whispers that spoke
Speaker 1: louder than any confession. One of the prosecution's most damning
Speaker 1: exhibits was the GPS data from Garland's truck On the
Speaker 1: night of June twenty ninth. His vehicle had left the
Speaker 1: Airdree farm around nine forty five pm, traveled to the
Speaker 1: Likeness neighborhood, remained there for two and a half hours,
Speaker 1: then returned home just before three am. At four fifteen am,
Speaker 1: the truck's movement sensor detected activity again, the beginning of
Speaker 1: what police believed was the destruction of evidence. Even Garland's
Speaker 1: Internet history was a confession of sorts. He had searched
Speaker 1: for terms like how to erase blood evidence, forensic DNA
Speaker 1: heat resistance, and how long bones burn. When officers seized
Speaker 1: his computer, they found folders labeled Pumps, family, and Chillingly Likeness.
Speaker 1: Inside that last folder were photographs taken years earlier of
Speaker 1: Alvin's workshop, his patent documents, and his house. This wasn't
Speaker 1: random violence. It was a vendetta executed with surgical precision.
Speaker 1: The Crown called it a slow burn of resentment. Prosecutors
Speaker 1: traced the feedback to the early two thousands, when Garland
Speaker 1: had worked briefly with Alvin Likeness on an oil field
Speaker 1: pump prototype. When the patent was later filed under Likeness's
Speaker 1: name alone, Garland felt erased. In his mind, Alvid had
Speaker 1: taken not only his idea but his dignity. Family members
Speaker 1: testified that Garland nursed that wound for nearly a decade,
Speaker 1: replaying the perceived betrayal like a looped recording. And so
Speaker 1: when Garland learned through a relative but that the Likenesses
Speaker 1: were holding in a state sale, a detail that made
Speaker 1: the news, he saw an opening, a public event, an
Speaker 1: unlocked door. Investigators believed he planned the attack for weeks.
Speaker 1: The presence of Nathan didn't deter him. It simply became
Speaker 1: part of the logistics. When the trial opened it in
Speaker 1: January twenty seventeen, the courtroom in Calgary's Court of Queen's
Speaker 1: Bench was silent except for the hum of reporters, recorders,
Speaker 1: Douglas Garland sat motionless, his expression unreadable. The Crown's case
Speaker 1: unfolded with clinical precision, blood pattern analysis, DNA charts, photographs
Speaker 1: of scorched debris. But behind each piece of evidence was
Speaker 1: the quiet presence of Jennifer and Rod O'Brien, who attended
Speaker 1: every session. They sat through it, all, the photographs, the testimony,
Speaker 1: the unimaginable details. Prosecutor Shane Parker's closing words cut through
Speaker 1: the air like glass quote. This was not spontaneous. This
Speaker 1: was planned, delibered, and fueled by hate. Three people lost
Speaker 1: their lives because of one man's bitterness. After just seven
Speaker 1: hours of deliberation, the jury returned a unanimous verdict guilty
Speaker 1: on all three counts of first degree murder. Justice David
Speaker 1: Gates sent in Scarland to three concurrent life sentences with
Speaker 1: no possibility of parole for seventy five years, effectively a
Speaker 1: death sentence. By time, your actions are the most despicable
Speaker 1: the Court has ever encountered, Justice Gates said. In the
Speaker 1: public gallery, Jennifer O'Brien wept silently, clutching a photo of
Speaker 1: her son outside a crowd gathered in the winter air.
Speaker 1: People hugged strangers, others simply stood had bowed. The verdict
Speaker 1: didn't bring closure, how could it, the bodies were never found.
Speaker 1: But it brought something closer to peace, the certainty of guilt,
Speaker 1: the acknowledgment of truth. In the months that followed, Calgary
Speaker 1: built a small memorial garden in Nathan's name, the O'Brien
Speaker 1: in likeness. Families withdrew from public view, tending to private grief,
Speaker 1: while the community learned to live with the absence. The
Speaker 1: case remained a benchmark in Canadian criminal history, not only
Speaker 1: for its brutality, but for its endurance. The O'Brien's public
Speaker 1: grace became a symbol of resilience in the face of
Speaker 1: unspeakable loss. As one columnist wrote in the Calgary Herald, quote,
Speaker 1: this was not a story about monsters hiding in the dark.
Speaker 1: It was about one man who let hatred become his
Speaker 1: purpose and a city that refused to let him have
Speaker 1: the last word. For most people in Calgary, the summer
Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen remains divided into before and after. Before
Speaker 1: June thirtieth, when Nathan O'Brien's sleepover was a small, joyful
Speaker 1: moment in an ordinary family's life, and after, when that
Speaker 1: same night became a wound that would change the city forever.
Speaker 1: Years later, the Likeness home on thirty eight A Avenue remains,
Speaker 1: but the house is quieter now. The estate sale sign longne,
Speaker 1: the walls repainted, the curtains replaced, But those who lived
Speaker 1: through that time still drive past slowly. Some leave flowers,
Speaker 1: others avert their eyes. The murders of Nathan, Alvin and
Speaker 1: Catherine were not only a family tragedy. They became a
Speaker 1: collective trauma, a test of civic compassion, in a case
Speaker 1: that reshaped how Canada thinks about justice, vengeance, and forgiveness.
Speaker 1: For months after Garland's conviction, Jennifer O'Brien continued to make
Speaker 1: quiet appeals for information about the location of her family's remains.
Speaker 1: She said it wasn't closure she sought, but truth. Quote.
Speaker 1: You can't vary grief, she told CBC's The National. But
Speaker 1: you can ground it, you can give it somewhere to
Speaker 1: rest end quote. In private, she worked with police on
Speaker 1: Kadet Ever, dog searches and aerial surveys around the Garland property,
Speaker 1: hoping for even a small recovery. None came. The Royal
Speaker 1: Canadian Mounted Police eventually declared it improbable that identifiable remains
Speaker 1: would ever be found. Forensic experts testified that the bone
Speaker 1: fragments collected had been reduced to calcium dust. Victims of
Speaker 1: both violence and fire, the absence of bodies left a
Speaker 1: peculiar ache, one that rippled through every conversation about the case.
Speaker 1: The idea of disappearance became as heavy as the murder themselves.
Speaker 1: Garland's sentence, life without parole for seventy five years, was
Speaker 1: one of the harshest ever handed down in Canadian legal history,
Speaker 1: but even that felt inadequate to many. Canada, a nation
Speaker 1: without the death penalty, had little language for crimes of
Speaker 1: such premeditated cruelty. Legal scholars debated whether the scents represented
Speaker 1: deterrence or symbolism, a judicial declaration that some acts sit
Speaker 1: beyond redemption. For the O'Brien's, it was enough that Garland
Speaker 1: would never walk free. Quote. He doesn't get to erase them.
Speaker 1: Jennifer sat outside the courthouse. He doesn't get to go home.
Speaker 1: End quote. The judges words lingered to quote. In thirty
Speaker 1: five years on the bench, I have never encountered such
Speaker 1: depravity end quote. The courtroom was silent, then, not because
Speaker 1: justice was complete, but because there was nothing left to say.
Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the O'Brien family, joined by hundreds of Calgarians,
Speaker 1: unveiled the Nathan O'Brien Children's Foundation field House, a bright,
Speaker 1: open space filled with the sounds of laughter and play.
Speaker 1: This is what healing sounds like, Jennifer said at the opening.
Speaker 1: Her voice trembled, but her resolve did not. For those
Speaker 1: who covered the story, the emotional imprint was permanent. Reporters
Speaker 1: spoke of how the case blurred the lines between professional
Speaker 1: detachment and shared grief. Police officers cried in their cars
Speaker 1: after long shifts at the Garland farm. Volunteers who searched
Speaker 1: the field said they still dream of the prairie wind
Speaker 1: rustling through empty grass. Calgary, a city often defined by
Speaker 1: oil and optimism, found itself defined for a time by mourning.
Speaker 1: Yet that morning built something like unity. Churches opened their
Speaker 1: doors around the clock, neighbors held vigils and parks. When
Speaker 1: Garland's trial ended, one local columnist wrote quote, we came
Speaker 1: to understand that evil doesn't need a reason, it only
Speaker 1: needs space. But we also learned that community is stronger
Speaker 1: than cruelty. In twenty twenty, three. Nearly a decade after
Speaker 1: the murders, Jennifer O'Brien told The Globe and Mail she
Speaker 1: no longer drives past her parents' old home. It's just
Speaker 1: a house, she said, quietly. They're not there. What remained
Speaker 1: instead is a memory and the quiet determination to fill
Speaker 1: that memory with light rather than darkness. Quote. I want
Speaker 1: people to remember Nathan's laugh. I don't want him to
Speaker 1: be defined by what was taken, she said. In Kilary's
Speaker 1: southwest suburbs, just beyond the bustle of Glenmore Trail, the
Speaker 1: nights are peaceful again, but for money, the image remains.
Speaker 1: A small boy's pajamas folded neatly in a bag, his
Speaker 1: favorite game left on the floor, a promise to call
Speaker 1: in the morning. He never got the chance. The sleepover
Speaker 1: never ended, but neither did the love that refused to
Speaker 1: forget him. And that, my friend, is.
Speaker 2: That is an incredible story. It's so deep and tragic
Speaker 2: and oh just heavy. I have so many emotions about it.
Speaker 2: About this guy Douglas, the planning how you said it
Speaker 2: was years of the pictures of the house. He had
Speaker 2: a folder. He looked up stuff, this is this is
Speaker 2: terrible And then he plans it for the twenty ninth
Speaker 2: and just how nothing's an accident kind of thing. That's
Speaker 2: when Nathan's like, that could have been a deterrent for
Speaker 2: him the grandchild, Like you did that to the child,
Speaker 2: because it made me think, this is two thousand you
Speaker 2: said fourteen was giving law abiding citizen vibes. Have you
Speaker 2: ever seen that movie?
Speaker 1: Oh, who's in that?
Speaker 2: Who's the guy who played in three hundred? Girard?
Speaker 1: Oh, Gerard Butler?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's all but and Jamie Fox, but he
Speaker 2: avenges the death of his It's very energetic in the beginning,
Speaker 2: and his wife and daughter are killed by these two guys,
Speaker 2: and Jamie Fox gets the guys off, and now, of course,
Speaker 2: now Girard is going to take the law into his
Speaker 2: own hands, and he does this methodical way he gets
Speaker 2: the guy and he records it and it's just like
Speaker 2: I've never seen the Saw movies, but I'd imagine it's
Speaker 2: something just morbid and decrepit and horrible. And you know,
Speaker 2: if he's sick enough to do that, then he had
Speaker 2: them listen to each other, go, he had them, you know,
Speaker 2: because that's a deep abysal hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, like, did he who did he kill first?
Speaker 1: I'm thinking he killed Nathan first. He probably killed Jefron
Speaker 1: act to make Alvin suffer the most emotionally.
Speaker 2: But even like, yes, that is wow, that's just it
Speaker 2: blew me away, that is I can't even believe how horrible.
Speaker 2: And then as a grandmother, you know, it's just like yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, as a grandparent you can be all like, oh,
Speaker 2: of course your baby's safe with Grandma and Papa, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's like the furthest place you would think harm
Speaker 2: would come to your child. And then Jennifer just doing
Speaker 2: what a hero? I mean, how do you even say
Speaker 2: a hero? What a phenomenal person.
Speaker 1: She's just incredibly strong. I've thought about something happening to
Speaker 1: my child and I would be destroyed, and her, she
Speaker 1: is destroyed. And it's always amazing to see someone get
Speaker 1: on with their lives, you know, yes, when such tragedy happens.
Speaker 1: So I hope Jennifer is somewhere and she is okay.
Speaker 1: Having the foundation in Nathan's name probably helps a lot,
Speaker 1: I would think, you know, psychologically, it helps her, gives
Speaker 1: her a purpose and you know, doesn't allow Nathan's memory
Speaker 1: to die. And you know, she lost her parents.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised the house still stands. Honestly, it was such
Speaker 2: a benchmark case.
Speaker 1: I know I'm surprised too.
Speaker 2: But this guy, that's just terrible and it's so heinous.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how I feel about having this
Speaker 2: thought thought when you were explaining how Canada, because I
Speaker 2: do have that view of Canada where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: the Canadians are so nice. Oh hey, yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 2: little yeah, and so to hear something so awful, I
Speaker 2: would think, gosh, that sounds more America. Isn't that terrible
Speaker 2: to think? Like, I'm like, how is it? You know,
Speaker 2: so have that mark crime that unfortunately we've heard a
Speaker 2: little bit more of here. To touch something as the
Speaker 2: you know, Alberta and Calgary who knows, who've known nothing
Speaker 2: of this depth of depravity is something to heal from.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the whole area for sure. But thank you. Gosh,
Speaker 2: I was I was on the edge of my seat.
Speaker 2: I could barely make any of my inappropriate jokes.
Speaker 3: I know, I know you're like, oh, I'm like, what right,
Speaker 3: So it was a good it was, yes, thank yeah,
Speaker 3: It's just that.
Speaker 2: Is yeah, wow, that's just well, thank you for enduring it.
Speaker 1: Miss Shannon, and thank you everyone.
Speaker 2: For listen to endure you. Of course, thank.
Speaker 1: You everyone for listening to this week's episode. And if
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Speaker 1: all the business, all.
Speaker 2: The business and grabbing those extra stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to learn the best episode. My dear, I
Speaker 1: will see you later.
Speaker 2: I love you girl, I'll love you.
Speaker 1: Bye bye