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<v Speaker 1>Seven oh five at fifty five ker CD talk Station.

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<v Speaker 1>A very happy Tuesday. I hope you're as happy as

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<v Speaker 1>I am. And it's Tuesday because Peter Bronson is in studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, author, he is a publisher. Chili Dog Press

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<v Speaker 1>dot COM's where you find his publishing company, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to get your book if you're someone in

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<v Speaker 1>the listening audience that's interested in publishing. Does a wonderful job.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also a terrific author, former columnist for the Cincinnion

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<v Speaker 1>Inquiry and an award winning columnist back when the editorial

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<v Speaker 1>page used to win awards. Things have changed over at

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<v Speaker 1>the Inquire a little bit. I'm going to miss them

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<v Speaker 1>too much. But Peter Bronson, you always did such a

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful job. And I just got done asking you. Your

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<v Speaker 1>very very first book was a compilation of your columns.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that was called Cincinnati for Peace for Pete's Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you segued over and actually your first book book,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a book.

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<v Speaker 1>It's work of nonfiction, of course, behind the lines the

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<v Speaker 1>untold stories plural of the Cincinnati Riots, and believe it

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<v Speaker 1>or not, it has been twenty four years. Tomorrow's the

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<v Speaker 1>anniversary of the outset of the Cincinnati riots. It took place,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe people don't remember these specific facts,

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<v Speaker 1>and I will fall into that category. I remember sort

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<v Speaker 1>of about them when they happened. It led to that

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<v Speaker 1>consent decree that got worked down. Yeah, yeah, we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>some details.

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<v Speaker 2>Consultants that flew in like vultures to feed on Cincinnati.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, But what kicked it off? What was the

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<v Speaker 1>impetus for all this? Like George Floyd. Everybody remembers George

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<v Speaker 1>Floyd and M and BLM and defund the police and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>This was sort of a precursor to that type of reaction.

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<v Speaker 1>It was.

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<v Speaker 2>This was the first major incident of its in ten

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<v Speaker 2>years after the Rodney King incident, which goes back ten

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<v Speaker 2>years previously, right, So when you go all the way

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<v Speaker 2>back to that, you can look at this pattern that occurred.

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<v Speaker 2>And I have to say compliments to you for bringing

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<v Speaker 2>this topic up again, because I would wager that very few,

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<v Speaker 2>if any of the other media platforms in this city

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<v Speaker 2>will even mention it today that this is all these

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four years since this happened, and it was a

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<v Speaker 2>huge cataclysmic event in the history of our city.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's why it's worthy of bringing up. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>did we learn lessons? Are things better now? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a point of a moment of reflection. That's why

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<v Speaker 1>you think about anniversaryes. What's theal line. If you don't

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<v Speaker 1>learn from it, you repete it. So well. I just

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<v Speaker 1>I remember reading about and my dad telling me stories

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<v Speaker 1>about the sixties riots, the Watts riots. Yeah, and the

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<v Speaker 1>National Guard had to be parked out in front of Detroit.

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<v Speaker 2>They had tanks rolling down the streets of Detroit nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty seven, and they had a fifty caliber machine guns

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<v Speaker 2>mounted on the tops of those tanks that were firing

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<v Speaker 2>at rooftops in Detroit because there were snipers up there

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<v Speaker 2>trying to kill the National Guard and the police.

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<v Speaker 1>See and can you believe that these are the facts

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<v Speaker 1>that I was not aware of. Dad told me a

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<v Speaker 1>story about locally, when these studios used to be at

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen or six Highland Avenue, that they had to have

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<v Speaker 1>a National Guard vehicle posted out there because they were

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about maybe either studio is getting stormed or something

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<v Speaker 1>along those lines. Because the television studios as well as

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<v Speaker 1>the radio studios were all into that, you know, WKRC Moniker.

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<v Speaker 1>So things are different now than they were then, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's the one story remember back then. But we felt

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<v Speaker 1>the effects of that eras riots as well.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really bad in Avondale in sixty seven, But

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<v Speaker 2>when you look at what happened in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 2>one was certainly not as bad as those sixty seven riots.

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<v Speaker 2>But it is such a template of what has occurred

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<v Speaker 2>in all these cities since. What occurred in the Rodney kincase,

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<v Speaker 2>what occurred and Ferguson, Missouri, what occurred in Baltimore with

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<v Speaker 2>fed Freddie Gray, what occurred with as you point, George Floyd,

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<v Speaker 2>but so many other cases. All of these patterns fit

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<v Speaker 2>right back to Cincinnati in two thousand and one.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that? And I think about somebody's gonna say

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<v Speaker 1>scream with the radio and say, Thomas, you're full of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But there seemed to have been in some cases, some

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<v Speaker 1>of these cases, a gross mischaracterization of what happened and

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<v Speaker 1>people's reaction immediately blaming the police, when you know, police

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<v Speaker 1>were following the way they had been trained, and they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do anything necessarily untoward, but it led to bad outcomes,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the you know, I mean you can't defend

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<v Speaker 1>them literally beating the crap out of Rodney King. If

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<v Speaker 1>you watch that video, it's like, I mean, come on.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, except in my research, I was really surprised to

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<v Speaker 2>find this in the Rodney King incident that when the

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<v Speaker 2>jurors were shown the entire tape, ah, then they came

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<v Speaker 2>up with a verdict that kicked off the riots. So

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<v Speaker 2>the tape that we saw on television was heavily edited

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<v Speaker 2>to only show the police responding to him and his attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>He refused to be subdued. The actual transcript of what

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<v Speaker 2>happened is shocking. I mean, they tried everything. Now, did

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<v Speaker 2>they go too far? Of course, yes they did. Police

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<v Speaker 2>are not inhuman when their adrenaline gets pumping after a

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<v Speaker 2>police chase, right, they're just like you and me. They're

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<v Speaker 2>capable of all kinds of.

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<v Speaker 1>Things, especially if their safety is in jeopardy because the

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<v Speaker 1>behavior of the purp in this particular tax. Yeah, if

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<v Speaker 1>he's attacked them, or you know, if they use a taser,

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<v Speaker 1>if I don't even know if there's existed back then,

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<v Speaker 1>but if the taser doesn't work and the guy continues

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<v Speaker 1>to become aggressive.

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<v Speaker 2>And they tried tasers, they tried everything was short of

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<v Speaker 2>firing their revolvers and killing him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, and.

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<v Speaker 2>They did not do that. Now, if you mentioned that,

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<v Speaker 2>the first and the initial reactions are often sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a shoot ready aim, especially in the media, and this

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<v Speaker 2>was especially true in Cincinnati. Now, the actual shooting occurred

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<v Speaker 2>on April seventh. On April eighth, a young black men

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<v Speaker 2>had been shot by a police officer. On April eighth,

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<v Speaker 2>the headlines in the Cincinnati Enquirer and in the media

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<v Speaker 2>throughout Cincinnati, but mainly in the Inquirer, included the words

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<v Speaker 2>police brutality, no facts are in Remember police brutality, trigger

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<v Speaker 2>happy and excessive force. Yeah, I mean, this was absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>just setting the table. And it reminded me when I

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<v Speaker 2>was coming in this morning, Brian, that today our judgment,

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<v Speaker 2>I respect, our esteem of the media is at a

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<v Speaker 2>record low. It's at eleven percent set. But in these days,

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<v Speaker 2>bringing up the idea that the media might be wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>that they might be pushing an agenda was heresy. This

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<v Speaker 2>was immediately suppressed or smothered by any platform of media

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<v Speaker 2>because they just thought anybody would suggest bias was a

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<v Speaker 2>tinfoil hat kook.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And now we sort of default to that. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>this is obvious media bias that we waited around and

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<v Speaker 1>find out what the real facts are down the road. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so yeah, you have to remember context is everything. This

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<v Speaker 1>is twenty four years ago, yes, and this is I

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<v Speaker 1>guess that's before social media as well, very much.

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<v Speaker 2>So you didn't have the drivers on this. One of

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<v Speaker 2>the main drivers was WDBZ. If you remember the Black

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<v Speaker 2>Ross Love station that was in Avondale, I think, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to go up there for interviews from time

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<v Speaker 2>to time and it was a wild, wild trip. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's another story. But they just poured kerosene on this

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<v Speaker 2>around the clock. Remember all of CPS schools were out

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<v Speaker 2>for spring break, so there are all these kids hanging

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<v Speaker 2>around with nothing to do, and the radio just kept

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<v Speaker 2>pouring out this police brutality story. How they're out there

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<v Speaker 2>killing young black men. Cincinnati police are hunting down and

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<v Speaker 2>killing young black men. This is the story they were

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<v Speaker 2>broadcasting constantly, and our paper that where I was working

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<v Speaker 2>at the Inquirer, had done this. It was a prize

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<v Speaker 2>package designed to win some kind of a pulitzer or something,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in their dreams. But the prize package was

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<v Speaker 2>this long report that really massaged the data to come

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<v Speaker 2>up with this narrative of police brutality in Cincinnati. So

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<v Speaker 2>this was like this incident was just kind of they're

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<v Speaker 2>just waiting for the one to come along where this

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<v Speaker 2>this whole thing can be.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, as a journalist, then you come from the responsible

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<v Speaker 1>factual reporting journalism era. You know, you don't draw conclusions,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't jump the gun. Now, editorial pages are different,

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<v Speaker 1>But when you're just doing general reporting, did you ever

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<v Speaker 1>look into and in your research doing behind the lines

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<v Speaker 1>the until it's sort of this insant, right, what the

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<v Speaker 1>motivations were for them doing that and painting such a

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<v Speaker 1>salacious headline and such a well a headline was guaranteed

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<v Speaker 1>to generate this kind of response.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was a lot of things that combined and

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<v Speaker 2>contributed to this, maybe a perfect storm of incendiary reporting

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<v Speaker 2>that contributed to the violence. I would say part of

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<v Speaker 2>it was ideological. The people that were being brought into

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<v Speaker 2>the newsroom had this attitude. A lot of it was

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<v Speaker 2>the Rodney King case, which everybody, let's face it, people

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<v Speaker 2>in the news business they like to follow the herd,

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<v Speaker 2>the herd animals, and if somebody gets a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>attention for a story. Then all over the nation we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing these another Rodney King. Every confrontation between police and

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<v Speaker 2>a black suspect. All over the nation, you'd see headlines

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<v Speaker 2>another Rodney King, without anything that necessarily matched up. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's this whole kind of copycat.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called clickbait now online, but back then it sells newspapers,

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<v Speaker 1>Yes it did.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's that there's the whole prize. I get under

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<v Speaker 2>that in the book. I was looking back at it

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<v Speaker 2>this morning, and I get into that the whole prize,

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<v Speaker 2>like every newspaper was kind of shameless in their pursuit

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<v Speaker 2>of prizes, of whatever kind of prize they could get

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<v Speaker 2>from the National Conference of Investigative Reporters, or it might

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<v Speaker 2>be the Ohio Press Association, whatever it is. Pulletrer is

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<v Speaker 2>of course the moby Dick, that's the holy grail. But

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<v Speaker 2>it was kind of I thought it was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>shameful the way these packages were often designed with the

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<v Speaker 2>prize committee in mind and not the readers or not

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<v Speaker 2>the community.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll pause right now. On the twenty fourth

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<v Speaker 1>anniversary tomorrow of the Cincinni Riots kickoff, Peter Bronson was there,

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<v Speaker 1>and he saw it all and wrote the book about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Behind the lines, the un told the story of the Cincinnairiots,

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<v Speaker 1>which you can get of course on Amazon. Widely received

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<v Speaker 1>and big thumbs up on that book. Will continue in

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<v Speaker 1>a moment, but if you wake up with joint pain

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<v Speaker 1>and seven twenty year fIF five KRCD talk station by

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<v Speaker 1>the Timas with Peter Bronson, author, publisher, former editor of

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<v Speaker 1>the since An Inquirer and of course a man who

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<v Speaker 1>remembers all the facts behind the riots that started Cincinnati

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<v Speaker 1>on April ninth, and as Peter explained, really kicked off

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<v Speaker 1>and went ballistic when the Cincinnai Inquirer posted the headlines

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<v Speaker 1>that it was all you know, rogue cop, there'll be

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<v Speaker 1>a bad sho, trigger happy.

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<v Speaker 2>Police, brutality excessive for us.

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<v Speaker 1>But that was before any of the information had been

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<v Speaker 1>looked into. There had been no internal investigation, and the.

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<v Speaker 2>Police chief was out of town, so they didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>have a press that was a sue striker right as

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<v Speaker 2>it was. And he was at a conference in Indianapolis,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he was shocked when he's driving home and

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<v Speaker 2>he and I think it was Vince Demasi was in

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<v Speaker 2>charge of me. He said, by the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Next door events.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, he said, by the way, chief, Oh

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<v Speaker 2>what so who was responding?

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<v Speaker 1>Who was responsible for addressing the public right after it happened,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's always you know, at least a lieutenant on

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<v Speaker 1>the scene, unless it's you know, really a chief level

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<v Speaker 1>respond That would have been the case in this one

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<v Speaker 1>had the chief Striker been in town exactly. So who

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<v Speaker 1>had the laboring ore of dealing with the press and

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<v Speaker 1>the immediate aftermath.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it probably should have been Demassi who would have

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<v Speaker 2>checked in with Striker and said, how do you want

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<v Speaker 2>to handle this? And Striker said, I'll be back in

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<v Speaker 2>two hours, right, and we will hold a press conference.

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<v Speaker 2>They did discover that one of the keys to preventing

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of outbreak of violence is to get everything

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<v Speaker 2>out there in the public as.

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<v Speaker 1>Fast as possible. Amen, If you got a.

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<v Speaker 2>Guy that's involved in a confrontation with police, he said,

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<v Speaker 2>he was carrying a weapon. You want that weapon on

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<v Speaker 2>the evening news, the morning news, any place you can

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<v Speaker 2>show it, Okay, And that really does diffuse the whole

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<v Speaker 2>well violence, it does.

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<v Speaker 1>For it explains the justification for the shooting. I had

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<v Speaker 1>a back and forth this morning. There was a recent

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<v Speaker 1>police shooting and Hamilton County prosecutor said the police were

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<v Speaker 1>okay on this one. The facts are a little questionable

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<v Speaker 1>and we're still sort of waiting for the full all

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<v Speaker 1>the information to come out. But you have to provide

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<v Speaker 1>the public with the information along the lines of, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>police shootings are justified much in the same way I

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<v Speaker 1>am entitled to defend myself with deadly force if I

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<v Speaker 1>am faced with the eminent apprehension of grievous bodily harm

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<v Speaker 1>or still death. And you know, for example, if I've

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<v Speaker 1>been through the process of trying to command a person

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<v Speaker 1>to you know, not resist and settle down, get on

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<v Speaker 1>your knees, put your hands on your head, they stop

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<v Speaker 1>doing that, and they get aggressive toward me. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>face two now in modern policing is use your taser

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<v Speaker 1>if pop. And if they continue to be aggressive and

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't work and they continue to come out with you,

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<v Speaker 1>most notably if they are armed, then you have a

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<v Speaker 1>legitimate justification for using deadly force. It all makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like put yourself in the same damn position, you

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<v Speaker 1>would have done it as well. Exactly now, in this

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<v Speaker 1>particular case, what specifically happened, I think it's worthy that

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<v Speaker 1>we go over ultimately what was concluded, happened, how the

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<v Speaker 1>confrontation started, and that what led to the deadly force.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you had this kid who was wanted on I

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<v Speaker 2>think of his nineteen different warrants for mainly minor stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like being out past curfew. He was an nor failure

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<v Speaker 2>to appear again and again and again, so they spotted him.

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<v Speaker 2>The officer Officer Roach gets out of his squad car

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<v Speaker 2>and goes around into an alley because they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>head him off because they knew where he was running.

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<v Speaker 2>As soon as he saw the police, he ran and

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<v Speaker 2>the kid comes over around the corner and he's probably

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<v Speaker 2>as far as we can tell, the best explanation is

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<v Speaker 2>that he was pulling up his sweatpants or his jeans

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<v Speaker 2>and Roach thought he was going for a gun and

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<v Speaker 2>fired and shot him, killed him. Beyond that, what really

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<v Speaker 2>was another I don't know if you remember this, but

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<v Speaker 2>there was a period when the refrain or the battle

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<v Speaker 2>cry of the protesters riders was fifteen black men killed fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>This went out nationally and was a major reason for

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<v Speaker 2>the boycotts that really crippled Cincinnati for a while. And

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteen black men killed. Was came directly from that

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<v Speaker 2>excessive force series in the Inquirer. And what I did

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<v Speaker 2>is I circled back to say, Okay, who are these fifteen?

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<v Speaker 2>I can read you just a couple examples here very shortly.

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<v Speaker 2>One of them was Daniel Williams, who flagged down Cincinnati

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<v Speaker 2>police officer Kathleen Conway in nineteen ninety eight, slugged her

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<v Speaker 2>in the face, and shot her four times in the

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<v Speaker 2>legs and abdomen with a three point fifty seven magnum

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<v Speaker 2>Holy is he carjacked a police car? Okay, it's one

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<v Speaker 2>of the fifteen victims of police brutality victim? Yeah, another one?

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<v Speaker 1>Is you spent on victim? Isn't it? Really?

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<v Speaker 2>You have Harry Price, who brutally raped a fifteen year

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<v Speaker 2>old girl in nineteen ninety five, beheaded her with an

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<v Speaker 2>axe and held off police for four hours, attacking them

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<v Speaker 2>with a steak knife after being hit repeatedly with mace

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<v Speaker 2>and stun guns. He was shot when he lunged at

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<v Speaker 2>the police with a knife.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Since in the interested time we go to

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<v Speaker 1>take a break, I mean, we get some more of those.

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<v Speaker 1>But what you're suggesting is in this reporting this fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>black Man. The narrative that was presented that they were

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<v Speaker 1>all innocent people who were not justifiably shot by the police. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and the two you just read there just really kind

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<v Speaker 1>of burst the bubble of that narrative, don't they.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all but about three were not even questionable.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's pause, We'll bring back Peter bro seven twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>If you about KRCD talk station Brian Thomas with Peter Bronson,

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<v Speaker 1>author of many, many books, all worthy of reading. Just

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<v Speaker 1>go to Amazon dot com and you find Peter Bronson's

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<v Speaker 1>page and you can see how The Sin City and

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<v Speaker 1>the other wonderful books he's written, they're just they're just

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<v Speaker 1>really genuine page turners. And uh, that's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things I love about it. I'll put you in a

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<v Speaker 1>category like a bill O'Reilly. Once you get going Peter,

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<v Speaker 1>you just can't put him down. And the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>it's so local, we all have a connection with it,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Yeah, you were mentioned, you know, like, uh

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<v Speaker 1>the Junkyard Dog alligation. You know, Ken Lawson is in

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<v Speaker 1>your book, and I actually went to law school with Ken.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was a year two ahead. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we know what a troubled problem in the difficult time

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<v Speaker 1>he had with his you know, the drug issues and

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<v Speaker 1>the I guess disbarment or whatever he went through. But

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<v Speaker 1>he was integrally involved in this and maybe they was

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<v Speaker 1>made a bit of a scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Yes, but yea of all places the

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<v Speaker 2>law and public safety. Yeah, many where it was completely

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<v Speaker 2>lawless in.

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<v Speaker 1>A riot broke out, and a riot broke out, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>behind the lines, the untold stories of the since in

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<v Speaker 1>riots the name of the book, So I imagine, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and at least again, going back twenty four years, we

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<v Speaker 1>have evolved as a society, and I think in many

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<v Speaker 1>cases for the better, you know. You know, a light

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<v Speaker 1>has been exposed on some of the terrible problems that

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<v Speaker 1>we've had with police departments. Yes, there have been instances

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<v Speaker 1>of racism. Yes, there have been instances of brutality, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think so one of the positive steps we've gone

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<v Speaker 1>through in spite of the fact that maybe none of

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<v Speaker 1>this outrage in any given instances was justified. There was

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<v Speaker 1>a percolating general anger between members of certain communities and

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<v Speaker 1>the police department that was built in what we called

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<v Speaker 1>the unrest. Yeah, the unrest was there. Yes, everybody knew

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who had been pulled over for they always say

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<v Speaker 1>drive while black. You know, they're just hassling me and

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<v Speaker 1>shaking me down. You know, my buddy Rudy was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>being clubbed over the police officer with PR twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>that I know that kind of thing existed. So when

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<v Speaker 1>a pretext comes along as inaccurate as the details were,

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<v Speaker 1>as you talk about in your book, and as you

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<v Speaker 1>pointed out this morning, it's like, Okay, the kindling's already there.

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<v Speaker 1>It just takes a spark. And even if the spark

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<v Speaker 1>is not the one that should have started it. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to justify political or violence in the streets,

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<v Speaker 1>and the extent of the reaction, you can kind of

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<v Speaker 1>understand on the level where it came from.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And so much was done after during right after

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<v Speaker 2>the riots, we had the can Commission, which was Cincinnati Action.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it was largely ineffective. We had a federal consent

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<v Speaker 2>decree that came in for about a year or more.

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<v Speaker 2>We had federal monitors that were in the back pocket

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<v Speaker 2>of every police officer, looking over the shoulders of all

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<v Speaker 2>the police. It drove Striker crazy because I couldn't do

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<v Speaker 2>his job and really, I think what changed was the

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<v Speaker 2>police learned some things out of this, almost independent of

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<v Speaker 2>the ten or fifteen million or whatever it was the

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<v Speaker 2>city spent on all these consultants. A lot of these

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<v Speaker 2>consultants just came here to shake the city down, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course, yeah it was crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing's changed, nothing has changed. We need a non governmental

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<v Speaker 1>organization and here taking a look at this, right, you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I five hundred thousand dollars a year working for an NGO. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be happy to do the work.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, what city elected official isn't glad to shift

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<v Speaker 2>the blame and let somebody else take responsibility for something

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<v Speaker 2>by giving him a million dollars. So, but the police

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<v Speaker 2>learned some key lessons, which one of them we discussed

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<v Speaker 2>was getting the weapons or any kind of evidence out

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<v Speaker 2>there as soon as possible, get out in public, have

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<v Speaker 2>a press conference, tell everybody what happened as much as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to correct these myths that are perpetrated by

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<v Speaker 2>the media in many cases. The next thing they found out,

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<v Speaker 2>which was very surprising, was that curfews work on the

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<v Speaker 2>fourth day of violence, when they were they had just

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<v Speaker 2>experienced the worst day of violence on the eleventh, with

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<v Speaker 2>people being dragged. An elderly couple was dragged out of

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<v Speaker 2>the car and beaten severely. We had this happening pretty

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<v Speaker 2>regularly in the streets, and the police and the mayor

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<v Speaker 2>declared a curfew and it worked, and everybody's like, wow,

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of a surprise. People are burning down businesses,

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<v Speaker 2>smashing windows, throwing rocks at the police. But you tell

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<v Speaker 2>them that that, you know, eleven o'clock everything ends.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it worked. It's like parents know that

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<v Speaker 1>about young people. Most of the problems occurved sort of

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<v Speaker 1>after eleven pm. Start worrying about what your kids are

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<v Speaker 1>up to.

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<v Speaker 2>But there were a lot of lessons like that that

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<v Speaker 2>were applied. But we went through a really bad period too,

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<v Speaker 2>where the police they they layered on so many layers

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<v Speaker 2>of review, of second guessing for the cop, they had

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<v Speaker 2>seven layers of oversight, so if they couldn't really do

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<v Speaker 2>anything and they kind of backed off. They called it

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<v Speaker 2>drive by policing, of course, and.

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<v Speaker 1>We saw that a lot of the aftermath of Black

403
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<v Speaker 1>Lives Matter riots through it any worth it.

404
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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was kind of a self defunding of the

405
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<v Speaker 2>police without the defunding part, and it took about a

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<v Speaker 2>year year and a half before, Striker had a big

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<v Speaker 2>meeting with all the cops and said, look, do your job.

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<v Speaker 2>Get back on the street and do your job, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'll back you up one hundred percent. And I got

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<v Speaker 2>a credit Mark Mallory too as the new Mara. He

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<v Speaker 2>came in and said, look, I will play it fair,

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<v Speaker 2>i will look at the evidence and I'm not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>throw kerosene on any fires unless i know there's something there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well see, and I will call that responsible leadership because again,

415
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<v Speaker 1>moving over to the post, let's say George Floyd area,

416
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<v Speaker 1>you had politicians that were joining in the ridicule of

417
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<v Speaker 1>the police departments and not supporting them at all. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know what that does the morale within a police department.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't even get your elected officials on your side

420
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:09.160
<v Speaker 1>when your job is to try to keep the community safe.

421
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.160
<v Speaker 2>And it was terrible at Cincinnati City Hall. I mean

422
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.160
<v Speaker 2>we had the Law and Public Safety Committee on April

423
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.119
<v Speaker 2>ninth was literally taken over. They were held hostage in

424
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.559
<v Speaker 2>that room by protesters who filled the entire room, stood

425
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.279
<v Speaker 2>on their desks, took their chairs from them, and they

426
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.079
<v Speaker 2>were completely intimidated and not even allowed to leave the

427
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.640
<v Speaker 2>room for a rest break. And what happened then is

428
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.960
<v Speaker 2>that the city council just kind of adopted this whole

429
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.640
<v Speaker 2>idea that it was all the police fault.

430
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Capitulated.

431
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 2>They capitulated it was a lot easier.

432
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.839
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I must observe the other development we have

433
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.799
<v Speaker 1>and you know, no Orwellian fanom I at least these

434
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.160
<v Speaker 1>days we have body camera footage. Yes, and that has

435
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 1>burst the bubble of so many people who claim it

436
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.200
<v Speaker 1>was police were in the wrong. It's the police who

437
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.960
<v Speaker 1>did this. It's reduced the number of complaints that there

438
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.880
<v Speaker 1>was police brutality. Come and no, here's the body camera things.

439
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.279
<v Speaker 1>You go ahead and draw your own conclusions. Yeah, so

440
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.680
<v Speaker 1>it's it's I think it's solved more problems for the

441
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.160
<v Speaker 1>police department than it has well provided, you know, documented

442
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.720
<v Speaker 1>proof that the police were in the wrong.

443
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 2>And there's been improvements in technology for non lethal force.

444
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:24.839
<v Speaker 2>So the tasers were a huge breakthrough because that gave

445
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.880
<v Speaker 2>them an option short of the club.

446
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, and when the taser showed up, the

447
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 1>PR twenty fours went the way of the Dodo exactly.

448
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.319
<v Speaker 2>And so but the other interesting thing is that tasers

449
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:41.480
<v Speaker 2>were absolutely considered like a horrible cruel and unusual tool

450
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.079
<v Speaker 2>for the police by the media, and the police had

451
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:48.720
<v Speaker 2>to weather that storm of all these bogus reports about

452
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>how many people were going to die. And this is

453
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:54.400
<v Speaker 2>absolutely you know, it's a deadly jolt of electricity.

454
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.279
<v Speaker 1>And that's hilarious because all the all the cadets of

455
00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:00.599
<v Speaker 1>the police department go through they get tasered, that's they

456
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 1>get shot with a taser, so they know damn well

457
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.079
<v Speaker 1>how it feels and what it does to you exactly.

458
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.319
<v Speaker 2>And you don't hear of anybody getting killed or going

459
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.119
<v Speaker 2>into the hospital.

460
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.119
<v Speaker 1>No, no, you know. Pause, we'll bring Peter back. Got

461
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.440
<v Speaker 1>a couple more segments with him. I'm really enjoying this, teacher.

462
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:19.640
<v Speaker 1>If you about case talk station taking a walk through

463
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.440
<v Speaker 1>history not one of the high points in Greater Cincinnati's history,

464
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 1>but one's certainly worthy of exploring. In Peter Bronson's in studio,

465
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.599
<v Speaker 1>his book Behind the Lines, the Untold Stories of the

466
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.759
<v Speaker 1>Cincinnati Riots, and we're kind of walking through the practical

467
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:38.079
<v Speaker 1>reality of what happened and then sort of paralleling it

468
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>with or comparing it to how the media just twisted

469
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.799
<v Speaker 1>the narrative on it and actually fed the fuel for

470
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 1>these riots and fed the fuel for the fire. And

471
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.279
<v Speaker 1>it's just been a real eye opener because you know, honestly, Peter,

472
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.519
<v Speaker 1>it's been so long, and I'm not quite sure how

473
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.559
<v Speaker 1>close closely connected I was with the facts at the

474
00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:00.519
<v Speaker 1>time it was going on. But which count older year

475
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.039
<v Speaker 1>was this again? Two thousand and one, two thousand and one, Yeah,

476
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>I had been back in town. We came back in

477
00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:09.519
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight from Chicago.

478
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.559
<v Speaker 2>And everything that happened, remember, is completely eclipsed by the

479
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:18.279
<v Speaker 2>World Trade Center attack, which followed shortly thereafter. So this

480
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.839
<v Speaker 2>was in April, and that happens in September. So for Cincinnati,

481
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.400
<v Speaker 2>this was still huge, and the effects lingered for about

482
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>two or three years. I don't know if you were

483
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 2>here then, but we had a thriving entertainment district on

484
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Main Street that was pretty much just died from the

485
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 2>boycotts and from the violence, and that kind of went away.

486
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.319
<v Speaker 2>Now it's kind of over it in OTR it's but

487
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean a lot of cool places like Neons were there,

488
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.319
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, all kinds of places. But you know, the city,

489
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of restaurants failed. There was really terrible boycotts

490
00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of confrontations and nasty. The whole city

491
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:08.319
<v Speaker 2>was just in a terrible kind of hostile, divided climate.

492
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.680
<v Speaker 1>This you know, go back to go back to Watts,

493
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 1>and go back to you know, Rodney King, and it

494
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 1>seems to have like a cyclical effect. Yes, I don't

495
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.519
<v Speaker 1>know if there's any connection with the political environment generally

496
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:27.000
<v Speaker 1>speaking and this type of rioting behavior happening, because you know,

497
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.200
<v Speaker 1>you could see with anti fo now they had their

498
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.160
<v Speaker 1>own separate issues, but a lot of fires and looting

499
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.799
<v Speaker 1>and destruction and anti police activity.

500
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:38.559
<v Speaker 2>I think, same thing, and just burning police stations. It's

501
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.559
<v Speaker 2>just another escalation on this ladder that we saw and

502
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.680
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty much the same things that happened in Cincinnati,

503
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 2>but in a little bit more expanded scale, and it

504
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:54.279
<v Speaker 2>keeps getting Worrise and Morris and I really, because I'm

505
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 2>in the media, maybe yeah, Well, you know the guy

506
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>who has a hammer looks at everything like a nail,

507
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:02.440
<v Speaker 2>maybe that's me. But I think the media, with many

508
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.039
<v Speaker 2>good intentions perhaps of trying to unite the country, has

509
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.680
<v Speaker 2>done more to divide us on the issues of race

510
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:10.240
<v Speaker 2>than anyone.

511
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Well again, it goes back to clickbait, you know, unification

512
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:21.000
<v Speaker 1>uniting speaking a message of you know, enjoying and living

513
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:24.319
<v Speaker 1>under collectively in peace, in the name of freedom and

514
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 1>liberty and respecting your neighbors. You know, that doesn't that

515
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:34.400
<v Speaker 1>doesn't get clicks. It doesn't get people buying you know, murder, mayhem, ray, pestilens, police, brutality, brutality.

516
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 1>You know you're going to buy a paper. You know,

517
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like you can go back to the movies in

518
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen thirties and forties, headlines headlines murder of so

519
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>and so, and that of course is why people would

520
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.960
<v Speaker 1>buy papers. Absolutely so. Yeah, well, human nature is what

521
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.799
<v Speaker 1>it is. It is, at least I think I have.

522
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm as much of as much problems as many problems

523
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.799
<v Speaker 1>rather are created by the Internet. And this way that

524
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 1>the Internet has a being to reach so many people

525
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:02.680
<v Speaker 1>in such short period of time that you can get

526
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.240
<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of idiots and don't know what they're

527
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.720
<v Speaker 1>talking about, showing up on a Saturday to protest cutting

528
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 1>out ridiculous government ways and claiming that medicaid is somehow

529
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>being gutted, when in fact the polar opposite is happening.

530
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.559
<v Speaker 1>That's a downside. An upside is though that you and

531
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.359
<v Speaker 1>I actually can go out into the world and get

532
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>a broader view and more opinions and a broader swath

533
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of how the information is being presented, which if you're

534
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 1>smart enough, you'll get a clear picture of what reality is. Well.

535
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.759
<v Speaker 2>I think you make a great point. And social media

536
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and the online websites have really it's like giving the

537
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 2>most irresponsible people in the media back in two thousand

538
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:52.599
<v Speaker 2>and one an amplifier and a bull horn. Yeah, and

539
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:57.079
<v Speaker 2>now they can spread it even faster with less research,

540
00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:58.480
<v Speaker 2>less reporting, less.

541
00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Evidence, less accountability.

542
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.640
<v Speaker 2>And it's like you said, it's clickbase. So if they

543
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.240
<v Speaker 2>have to correct if the next day, who cares? Because

544
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:09.319
<v Speaker 2>they got the income that they can show advertisers from

545
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:10.319
<v Speaker 2>those million clicks.

546
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.039
<v Speaker 1>Let's puzzle worring Peter back for one more. I'll be

547
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:19.880
<v Speaker 1>right back after these brief words here fifty five kerc

548
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:23.359
<v Speaker 1>Detak Station and I have been thoroughly enjoying his look

549
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:28.240
<v Speaker 1>back in history with Peter Bronson regarding the riots which

550
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:31.440
<v Speaker 1>took place tomorrow twenty four years April ninth to kick

551
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 1>off of the riots here in the Cincinnati if you

552
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:34.359
<v Speaker 1>want to read about it. He wrote the book along

553
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 1>a while back two thousand and six was the published

554
00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.759
<v Speaker 1>date behind the lines, the untold story of the Cincinnati riots,

555
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.359
<v Speaker 1>And you brought up some great elements about this that

556
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure so many people have forgotten, but all the

557
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 1>parallels that we can draw with other almost identical situations.

558
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.759
<v Speaker 1>To me, it's been rather fascinating connecting the dots and

559
00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.240
<v Speaker 1>showing the parallels, and most notably the idea that quite

560
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>often these things are if not only tiny bit baked,

561
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 1>but half baked at best, when people start flying off

562
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 1>the handle and drawing conclusions and engaging in outright acts

563
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:14.119
<v Speaker 1>of destruction and violence, when they themselves. While they may

564
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>be angry at this system, or they may be angry

565
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.799
<v Speaker 1>at you know, law enforcement generally, in these particulars, many

566
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>of these circumstances, the anger isn't justified.

567
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:27.640
<v Speaker 2>No, as you pointed out, there may be a background

568
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>climate that is contributing to this, but I think by now,

569
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.000
<v Speaker 2>by now, after we've been through this so many times,

570
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:41.880
<v Speaker 2>we've seen this rodeo before, that climate, especially in police practices,

571
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 2>is for all intents and purposes gone. Will there be exceptions,

572
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh sure, of course, ye. That's human nature, that's life.

573
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:53.400
<v Speaker 2>But the idea that there is a systemic racism and

574
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.839
<v Speaker 2>a police department or that police are out there looking

575
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.759
<v Speaker 2>for excuses to be racist and kill or arrest or

576
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.960
<v Speaker 2>beat people because of their ethnicity. It's ridiculous.

577
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it is too. And you know, there was

578
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Corey that called in and he said

579
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:14.319
<v Speaker 1>he just through these broadbrush conclusions cops want to be

580
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:16.640
<v Speaker 1>costs because they want to go out and shoot somebody,

581
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:19.119
<v Speaker 1>that they're all trigger happy. And I'm listening to this

582
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.960
<v Speaker 1>thinking about my sister, who, after twenty five years, you know,

583
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:25.559
<v Speaker 1>served since I police department and her community. Well, she

584
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.160
<v Speaker 1>had stories that she used to talk about being spit on, punched,

585
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.640
<v Speaker 1>having to get you know, wrestle people to the ground,

586
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.839
<v Speaker 1>getting abused herbally and orally all and never once did

587
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:37.720
<v Speaker 1>she had to pull her firearmar to the best of

588
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:39.680
<v Speaker 1>my knowledge, I know she never had to shoot anybody.

589
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.920
<v Speaker 1>But he was being insistent upon this, and so I looked.

590
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>I looked up the fun fact. In twenty twenty four,

591
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.960
<v Speaker 1>in the United States, they were over one point two

592
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:51.440
<v Speaker 1>eight million sworn law enforcement officers, with about one hundred

593
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.079
<v Speaker 1>and thirty seven thousand of them working for federal agencies

594
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.960
<v Speaker 1>and the rest at state, local levels, and I see

595
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, of course there are going to be jerks

596
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>in there, yea, just like the general populations. That's why

597
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.720
<v Speaker 1>in prison, that's why they find murderers and rapists are

598
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>the vast majority of people murders and rapists. Do we

599
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.720
<v Speaker 1>have this collective mindset that we're all, you know, justifying

600
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.680
<v Speaker 1>committing these horrific acts. No, they're always going to be

601
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:19.880
<v Speaker 1>a few bad apples. But going back to the social

602
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:24.759
<v Speaker 1>media part, they do make the headlines. Yes, And when

603
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.200
<v Speaker 1>you have this mentality of the George Floyd mentality, this

604
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.720
<v Speaker 1>particular mentality what comes from the riots and people you know,

605
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 1>immediately using it as a vehicle to attack the entire

606
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>police department, No one thinks contextually about it.

607
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.359
<v Speaker 2>It's sensationalism has been monetized. It has That's what we

608
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:46.240
<v Speaker 2>look at in our media today at all levels. I'm

609
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:51.920
<v Speaker 2>talking about network news, cable news, everything, especially social media

610
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.559
<v Speaker 2>and online platforms. The more sensationalists, the more readers click it,

611
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>the more money you make.

612
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Well listeners, uh, you can still get a copy behind

613
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 1>the lines, the untold stories of the Cincinna riots. Also

614
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the man who saves Cincinnati promised Land, how the Midwest

615
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.320
<v Speaker 1>was one forbidden fruit, sin City, the Underworld, and the

616
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.719
<v Speaker 1>supper Club Inferno not in our town. The Queen City

617
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.920
<v Speaker 1>versus The King of Smut, which of course talks about

618
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 1>hustler publisher Larry Flint and the whole I mean, you

619
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:29.599
<v Speaker 1>even did the Cincinnati Art Museum Maplethorpe thing in that one.

620
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.639
<v Speaker 1>It's all great stuff. Peter writes a hell of a book.

621
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:34.719
<v Speaker 1>They're all there. You can get him at Chili Dogpress

622
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:37.119
<v Speaker 1>dot com. That's his publishing company. So I recommend you

623
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.320
<v Speaker 1>buy him from there, as opposed to getting him through

624
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.599
<v Speaker 1>wherever you might get him, like Amazon. But I can't

625
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.760
<v Speaker 1>recommend him enough. He writes a terrific book and a

626
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:48.000
<v Speaker 1>great storyteller. You are, and you want to I don't

627
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.360
<v Speaker 1>want you to give it up. And if you don't

628
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.599
<v Speaker 1>want to say anything, I know you're working on a

629
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:52.320
<v Speaker 1>new book.

630
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes I am, and I won't say anything.

631
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I won't give it up then, But you know, suspicious,

632
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.280
<v Speaker 1>you know this is going to be a fascinating book.

633
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>You got. I don't want to. I can't tease it

634
00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:05.199
<v Speaker 1>too much because I'll give away the subject matter. But

635
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:09.039
<v Speaker 1>another really locally based story, and since we brought up

636
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Ken Lawson earlier in all his troubles, Oh gosh, man,

637
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 1>he had a really serious problem going on at the

638
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.679
<v Speaker 1>time of these riots.

639
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, he's cleaned himself up. He has. The last time

640
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.880
<v Speaker 2>I talked to him, he was clean, had been for

641
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.199
<v Speaker 2>a long time. He was in Hawaii and he was practicing.

642
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 2>He was teaching at the University of Hawaii, teaching legal ethics, which.

643
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>It just sounds hilarious nas irony, But the off air

644
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.679
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned, I think it is we're pointing out since

645
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.360
<v Speaker 1>we're closing out the segment here. Ken was one of

646
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:43.880
<v Speaker 1>the people at that law and Public safety meeting during

647
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 1>the riot that he was.

648
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 2>One of the instigators along with the Reverend Damon Lynch.

649
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:52.519
<v Speaker 1>He admitted to you at that time that he was, Oh.

650
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was deep into his opioid addiction at that

651
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:02.159
<v Speaker 2>time and doing all all kinds of terribly unethical and

652
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:06.239
<v Speaker 2>illegal things to keep feeding his habit. When you watch

653
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.159
<v Speaker 2>the tape of that was I went back when I

654
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:12.119
<v Speaker 2>researched the book, Uh yeah, his behavior definitely backs that

655
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:17.440
<v Speaker 2>up about that, and he kept he knew better, and

656
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>we now know that he did know better that the

657
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.360
<v Speaker 2>police couldn't release what he kept telling them he wanted

658
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to get, and they couldn't do it. It was it was

659
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.679
<v Speaker 2>just not available or it was not legally proper, and

660
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.199
<v Speaker 2>so he kind of exploited the situation too to cause

661
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.199
<v Speaker 2>a lot of violence. And that's where the riot really

662
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:40.400
<v Speaker 2>erupted right there. In law and public safety.

663
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:43.159
<v Speaker 1>What a shame anyway, read about in Peter's book, Peter,

664
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:44.559
<v Speaker 1>It's been a real pleasure. I can't think you if

665
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 1>we're coming to the studio and talk always with pleasure.

666
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>It's always pleasure, man, You always enjoyed this.

667
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.880
<v Speaker 1>You're always welcome here. Man. We'll have something else to

668
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.039
<v Speaker 1>talk about real soon. I am certain. Seven to fifty

669
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>five come up with seven fifty six Inside Scoop London

670
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Bureau Chief Oliver Lane returns to the program. He's learning

671
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 1>to power Youse semon Art later this evening seven for

672
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:02.679
<v Speaker 1>that what's going on in Europe and what it means

673
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:05.079
<v Speaker 1>for us? Daniel Davis deep dive at the bottom of

674
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.159
<v Speaker 1>the next hour plus. Kesey cares with the Fabulous Cancer

675
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:12.039
<v Speaker 1>Doctors from OHC Today Doctor Joseph Shaughnessy in studio to

676
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:14.360
<v Speaker 1>talk about head and neck cancer stick around,