Speaker 1: I should be hearing my voice. You should be hearing
Speaker 1: my voice. You should be hearing my voice, and you're
Speaker 1: right ear.
Speaker 2: That was the teaser trailer for my upcoming documentary, Psychic Agent.
Speaker 2: The Gate Program releasing soon in around two weeks on
Speaker 2: Amazon Prime and Apple TV, so be on the lookout
Speaker 2: for that. Welcome back to Raise by Giant's discussion. I'm
Speaker 2: your host, writer Lee. Welcome any moderators and channel members
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Speaker 2: the DVD is being sent to me. Should be here
Speaker 2: in a couple of days. I think the arrival date
Speaker 2: was June first, so then when the movie releases on streaming,
Speaker 2: you will be able to purchase a DVD from me.
Speaker 2: If you don't like Amazon or Apple TV, you'll have
Speaker 2: a chance to get the physical copy, which is always good.
Speaker 2: To have a physical copy of everything nowadays, so depending
Speaker 2: on how it works out with this company, I'll also
Speaker 2: look into getting DVDs made of JFKX and a clockwork
Speaker 2: shining as well, So there's a lot to look forward
Speaker 2: to coming out. I also ordered eleven by seventeen movie
Speaker 2: posters made so I should arrive within the week. So
Speaker 2: we got a lot going on looking forward to the release.
Speaker 2: The trailer will drop the day the movie releases on streaming,
Speaker 2: so be on the lookout for that. But today we
Speaker 2: have with us. He is best known nationally as the
Speaker 2: good guy with a gun who intervened in the twenty
Speaker 2: seventeen Sutherland Springs, Texas church massacre. He is now a
Speaker 2: prominent spokesman and grassroots and industry liaison for gun owners
Speaker 2: of America, traveling the country to advocate for Second Amendment
Speaker 2: rights and community's safety. Stephen Willie Ford, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate it. So when people call you
Speaker 2: a hero for what you did at Sutherlands in twenty
Speaker 2: and seventeen, how do you personally process that word? And
Speaker 2: as the word has the words of meaning changed for
Speaker 2: you since then.
Speaker 1: I think hero is a real strong word. I did
Speaker 1: what God asked me to do, and I truly believe
Speaker 1: that God called me and asked me to handle it,
Speaker 1: and I had God. I guess what bullets away from
Speaker 1: me at the time, I was trained for a moment.
Speaker 1: I used to shoot on a pistol team and used
Speaker 1: to compete weekly and learned how to shoot well, and
Speaker 1: even so much as one of our competitors was a
Speaker 1: former Army ranger and a Santonial police officer. Three weeks straight,
Speaker 1: he taught me how to shoot around body armor, and
Speaker 1: so I was the perfect person at that time. And
Speaker 1: I truly believe that God chose me for that moment
Speaker 1: and train me ahead of time. So when you got
Speaker 1: God on your side, it's you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to try to take credit for what he's done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, putting on the spiritual armor and just running in
Speaker 2: it is pretty heroic in and of itself. I believe
Speaker 2: that that's what a lot of people want to believe
Speaker 2: that they would do in a situation like that, But
Speaker 2: I'm not for sure if every person would be able
Speaker 2: to actually do that, if that situation ever arise, unless
Speaker 2: they had a lot of training like you have. Now,
Speaker 2: how far or was the church because this happened in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, and there's been a lot of events that's
Speaker 2: happened since then. So maybe a little refresher for the
Speaker 2: audience on kind of how this transpired.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I know that you've talked about this a lot, and
Speaker 2: you've written a book about this, and you've you know,
Speaker 2: reiterated the story a lot. But how far was the
Speaker 2: church from where you lived?
Speaker 1: So from the front door of the church to the
Speaker 1: front door of my house was about one hundred yards.
Speaker 1: And I was saying, my daughter made me aware of
Speaker 1: the shootings. She could hear the sounds, and she came
Speaker 1: into my bedroom where I was where I was relaxing,
Speaker 1: and said that that might sound like gunfire. Well, my
Speaker 1: bedroom was better insulated than the rest of the house,
Speaker 1: and I thought it sounded like someone tapping on the window.
Speaker 1: And she said, come in the other part of the house.
Speaker 1: It's louder there. And when I left my bedroom, I realized, yes,
Speaker 1: it was gunfire. I didn't have shoes on. I was
Speaker 1: in I guess condition white if you will. I was relaxed,
Speaker 1: so I ran to my gun safe and I pulled
Speaker 1: out an AR fifteen, and I grabbed a handful of
Speaker 1: Demo and I ran out the door and I ran
Speaker 1: across the street. And if you see this much fat
Speaker 1: run and something desperate is going on, I don't run
Speaker 1: for fun. Too old. And people say I can't believe
Speaker 1: you didn't put shoes on. I say, you're lucky I
Speaker 1: had pants on because I knew each shot was aimed
Speaker 1: at someone I cared about deeply and meant for someone,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have time to put shoes on. He
Speaker 1: ended up As I ran across the street, I yelled out,
Speaker 1: and he heard me. And inside the church, he had
Speaker 1: just shot Julie Workman through the breast and bounced one
Speaker 1: off the concrete into her legs. She was hiding underneath
Speaker 1: the pew and her son, Chris Workman, was in the
Speaker 1: hiding underneath the pew in front of her, and he
Speaker 1: shot through the pew and hit Chris in the back,
Speaker 1: paralyzing him from the waist down. And they heard me
Speaker 1: yell when I was running across the street. And I
Speaker 1: believe that God called him out. I believe that God
Speaker 1: called the demon out because when I yelled, he dropped
Speaker 1: his rifle in the church and came out shooting at
Speaker 1: me with a pistol. And I had no explanation why
Speaker 1: he would have done that, but I do know that
Speaker 1: demons have to comply when God calls them immediately, and
Speaker 1: I believe that's what happened, is that God called out
Speaker 1: through me and called the demon out, and he dropped
Speaker 1: his rifle. He came out shooting in me with his pistol,
Speaker 1: and I ran behind a Dodge pickup truck and he
Speaker 1: hit the truck in front of me. He shattered the
Speaker 1: windshield of the car behind me, and he hit the
Speaker 1: house behind me. I was able to put one in
Speaker 1: his left chest and one in his abdomen, both of
Speaker 1: those stopped by the body armor he had on, and
Speaker 1: he ran for his vehicle. When he turned to his side,
Speaker 1: I put one between the plates and his side, and
Speaker 1: I put one high in his legs. He got into
Speaker 1: the vehicle and slammed the door. He put two shots
Speaker 1: through the side window at me, and I busted one
Speaker 1: across his forehead, right underneath the rim of the helmet.
Speaker 1: He had on a ballistic bulletproof helmet. And he decided
Speaker 1: he wanted out. He accelerated the car he turned the
Speaker 1: corner and he was fleeing as fast as he could.
Speaker 1: By the time I got in the middle of the street,
Speaker 1: he was one hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: yards away and fleeing. I put one through the back windshield.
Speaker 1: The police say that shattered the windshield and it went
Speaker 1: through the driver's side seat and it hit him right
Speaker 1: at the left shoulder blade. He topped up the hill
Speaker 1: and out of sight, and I flagged down a pickup
Speaker 1: truck that was setting at a stop sign, and we're
Speaker 1: chasting eleven point six miles And in the end, he
Speaker 1: turned the pistol up underneath the helmet and pulled the
Speaker 1: trigger and he killed himself. And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2: How far we were? How many yards away was the
Speaker 2: vehicle when you shot the shot through the back windshield?
Speaker 1: It was about one hundred and fifty yards and fleeing.
Speaker 2: That's a really good shot. Did you know that you
Speaker 2: hit him when that happened, or was that after the fact.
Speaker 1: I had no clue. But I do know that the
Speaker 1: AR fifteen that I built, I built it for competition,
Speaker 1: and I used to compete with it, and I knew
Speaker 1: it was dead on and I knew. I kept pulling
Speaker 1: the trigger and he kept moving. And the only thing
Speaker 1: I can say is he was running on absolute adrenaline
Speaker 1: and there was no physical signs that I had hit him.
Speaker 1: But I know my gun, and it turned out I
Speaker 1: hit him all six rounds out of six I fired,
Speaker 1: and he hit the truck in front of me, shattered
Speaker 1: the windshield of the car that was behind me, hit
Speaker 1: the house behind me. I did run behind a Dodge
Speaker 1: pickup truck. I had no armor. I was barefoot. For
Speaker 1: goodness sakes. That's not cowardice, is just good sense. I
Speaker 1: didn't run from the gun fire, but I did run
Speaker 1: behind a pickup truck.
Speaker 2: Did any motives ever come out about the shooter and
Speaker 2: the reason that he did it? You know a lot
Speaker 2: of articles, you know online, try and say that it
Speaker 2: wasn't politically motivated or religiously motivated. But not religiously motivated,
Speaker 2: does it make a lot of sense to me at all,
Speaker 2: Because if you're going to shoot up a church kind
Speaker 2: of means that you have problems with religion right on
Speaker 2: a certain level, on the premise of just doing that,
Speaker 2: you would think that you would have a problem with religion,
Speaker 2: and you have to be a very deranged, mentally unstable
Speaker 2: individual to do anything like that, just from the very beginning,
Speaker 2: just from the jump, regardless if it's at a church
Speaker 2: or at a school, or really murdering or killing any
Speaker 2: innocent person is deranged in my mind right, and some
Speaker 2: would even say demonic in nature. So what was the
Speaker 2: reasoning and the mode of it behind this individual?
Speaker 1: Well, so a little background about him, and I never
Speaker 1: used his name, because first off, I don't want his
Speaker 1: name tied to mind and I cringe every time I
Speaker 1: hear that. But a little bit about his background. He
Speaker 1: was in the Air Force prior, and they put him
Speaker 1: in prison because he disassembled his infant son's puppy alive
Speaker 1: in front of his infant son to get him to
Speaker 1: quit crying. And why would the boy quit crying after
Speaker 1: that after seeing his puppy done that way? And so
Speaker 1: then he beat his infant son until he fractured his
Speaker 1: skull and put him in a coma. So the Air
Speaker 1: Force put him in prison for a year and a half.
Speaker 1: And when he got out of prison, they brought him
Speaker 1: before board to get him out of the Air Force.
Speaker 1: And he walked in before the board members and said
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get my gun and I'm gonna kill
Speaker 1: every one of you, so terroristic threats. They put him
Speaker 1: in a mental institution, and he escaped from the mental
Speaker 1: institution and they gave him a less than honorable discharge.
Speaker 1: And the week before he came into the church, he
Speaker 1: was at their fall festival and he was using profanity
Speaker 1: and stuff and yelling and screaming that he hated Christians,
Speaker 1: and they trespassed him and told him to leap. He left,
Speaker 1: and he said, I'll be back. His mother and father
Speaker 1: in law and brother in law went to that church,
Speaker 1: and his wife's grandmother also went to that church. His
Speaker 1: mother and father in law and brother in law were
Speaker 1: not there that morning, but he did kill his wife's grandmother.
Speaker 1: So and he handcuffed his wife to the bed with
Speaker 1: two infants in the house before he left that morning.
Speaker 2: It seems like a very deranged an individual. Did he
Speaker 2: always live there? Was he born and raised there? Did
Speaker 2: you know him previously to this?
Speaker 1: No? I did not. His wife was from Sutherland Springs,
Speaker 1: but he was from a neighboring community about forty miles away, Okay.
Speaker 2: So his wife lived there in the town.
Speaker 1: His wife was raised in Southern Springs.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they lived together. So he had moved here,
Speaker 2: moved into your town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he moved he moved into San Marcus and uh,
Speaker 1: which was where his parents lived. Okay, so he lived
Speaker 1: in the same town that his parents lived, where he
Speaker 1: grew up at. He just came to Southern Springs.
Speaker 2: Do you ever think that the media inadvertently is breeding
Speaker 2: more shooters by covering certain stories and making a national
Speaker 2: news while others are kind of you know, brushed under
Speaker 2: the rug. I mean, uh, I'm sure you're aware that
Speaker 2: a large majority of school shootings. Now know, schools are
Speaker 2: different than churches. But most school shootings are committed by
Speaker 2: the kids themselves. It's kids bringing guns to school, firing them,
Speaker 2: shooting them at other kids or other teachers, right, And
Speaker 2: we don't really get reports on that. It's only when
Speaker 2: adults come into the picture, into the school, which they
Speaker 2: normally don't have any connection to the school whatsoever. Those
Speaker 2: are the ones that kind of get the most coverage
Speaker 2: because they are the most deadly ones.
Speaker 1: And most of them the kids are out of school
Speaker 1: and they go back to the school. That's not true,
Speaker 1: you don't think so.
Speaker 2: Not true at all. No, A lot of them are
Speaker 2: kids that actually go to the school that bring a
Speaker 2: gun to the school and firing. Now I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that they always shoot someone in every single instance, but
Speaker 2: firing a gun at school or hitting someone or shooting
Speaker 2: someone is mostly done by the kid that actually attends
Speaker 2: that school. There's a percentage of them that is very
Speaker 2: very very very high.
Speaker 1: There is there is there is a percentage of them
Speaker 1: that do that. And again, just like Evaldi, though he
Speaker 1: didn't go to that school anymore, and he went back
Speaker 1: to it, the Tennessee one where the transgender she went
Speaker 1: into that school. She never she never attended that school, however,
Speaker 1: he he he, she, I don't know what to and
Speaker 1: that went to that school specifically because went to another
Speaker 1: school first and saw that there were armed security at
Speaker 1: the other school, and then went to actually the Christian
Speaker 1: school because it knew that there were no armed security there.
Speaker 1: So a lot of these are decided, you know, on
Speaker 1: the fact how much resistance they're going to get. And
Speaker 1: it's obviously it's time to get rid of gun free
Speaker 1: zones altogether. And here in Texas we have the school
Speaker 1: Marshall program and the school Guardian programs. Both of those
Speaker 1: programs allow teachers and faculty to eat to be trained
Speaker 1: to carry a gun to prevent this kind of thing
Speaker 1: from happening in their schools has to be approved by
Speaker 1: the school boards. And you know, there has not been
Speaker 1: one incident of a school that takes part in either
Speaker 1: the Guardian program or the School Marshall program that have
Speaker 1: ever been attacked before. You know, we need to get
Speaker 1: rid of gun free zones. Please go to gun owners
Speaker 1: dot org and sign up. We fight for our rights
Speaker 1: and to take our rights back. And if you're picking
Speaker 1: up junior from the school, you shouldn't be forced to
Speaker 1: leave your gun at the house when you pick him
Speaker 1: up Hillmer or her up from school. And the teachers
Speaker 1: should be able to defend their classrooms.
Speaker 2: I definitely agree with that. Do you pay attention to
Speaker 2: more incidents like this because of your involvement in the
Speaker 2: Sutherland Church.
Speaker 1: Well, it's really strange because I don't know why. You know,
Speaker 1: I was a competitive shooter, I was a farms instructor,
Speaker 1: I taught. I taught self defense classes before this ever started,
Speaker 1: before it happened in Southerland Springs, I was teaching self
Speaker 1: defense classes and I don't know why, but you know,
Speaker 1: I guess God wires some of us differently. And every
Speaker 1: time I would hear about one of these incidents and
Speaker 1: it affected me, you know. And I had in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: the Las Vegas shooting had just happened, just before Sutherland Springs,
Speaker 1: and I was discussing it with people that I worked with,
Speaker 1: you know, and one of them was going to a
Speaker 1: concert outdoor concert in Austin after what happened in Las Vegas.
Speaker 1: He was asking me, and I said, you can't let
Speaker 1: these things stop you from enjoying life. However, there's some
Speaker 1: things that you can do. You know. You don't have
Speaker 1: to lead the same exit that you entered into, and
Speaker 1: if something like this happens, get out as fast. Don't
Speaker 1: try to find the exit that you entered into. You know,
Speaker 1: heads up and watch things all around you and be
Speaker 1: aware of what's going on and be ready to react.
Speaker 1: And I had just told him about all that after
Speaker 1: the Vegas shooting and then Sutherland Springs happened, and why
Speaker 1: I was, I guess trained for that kind of thing. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't believe in coincidences. I believe that there's a
Speaker 1: plan everything.
Speaker 2: Have you looked more into that Vegas shooting. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of really weird and strange anomalies, Like there were
Speaker 2: people reporting shootings like gunfire and stuff like all over
Speaker 2: that Vegas area. It wasn't just happening at the concert.
Speaker 2: There were calls from people ten blocks away and hotels
Speaker 2: that believed the shooting was happening there. There's been a
Speaker 2: lot of investigation in on that. And actually spoke with
Speaker 2: a lady that was involved in that, and she was
Speaker 2: actually shot in the stomach by the shooter. And she reports,
Speaker 2: now I don't know how true this is, but she
Speaker 2: reports that when she was shot in the stomach, she
Speaker 2: literally witnessed the bully shoot back out of her. Right now,
Speaker 2: she's a legitimate victim of the shooting. She was really there.
Speaker 2: All that's verified. But she saw it go in her
Speaker 2: and then shoot back out of her. And then whenever
Speaker 2: the police showed up and all that was going on there,
Speaker 2: she had said that the police had told her at
Speaker 2: that time right now, you know, later on it was
Speaker 2: said that there was just you know, the one guy
Speaker 2: that you know, offed himself up in the hotel room.
Speaker 2: But whenever that happened, she went to the police, and
Speaker 2: the police said that they were aware of multiple shooters
Speaker 2: at that time, so, well, I don't really know the
Speaker 2: truth there. It's a very convoluted and wild story there
Speaker 2: in Vegas.
Speaker 1: Well, when something like this happens, there's rumors of a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that happened. You know, people were saying
Speaker 1: there were multiple shooters in Sutherland Springs. There wasn't. It
Speaker 1: was just one man. So right after, directly after it happens,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of misinformation out there, and that's why
Speaker 1: you try to set back and wait until all the
Speaker 1: facts come out. After the Uvalde shooting, I did a
Speaker 1: lot of radio shows and podcasts and stuff because they
Speaker 1: wanted to know my take, and I was always, you know,
Speaker 1: let's wait and let all the facts come out before
Speaker 1: we just you know, there's a lot of rumors and
Speaker 1: stuff going on now, and it's best just to step
Speaker 1: back and wait till the facts come out before you
Speaker 1: start talking about it. I want it very badly to
Speaker 1: defend the police department and Uvalde right after the shooting.
Speaker 1: I always take the side of the police when I can,
Speaker 1: But as facts work their way out, it looked like
Speaker 1: it was an absolute failure on the value police department well,
Speaker 1: I don't always just jump to that conclusion right away,
Speaker 1: because police, for the most part are men and women
Speaker 1: that would put their lives on the line for you
Speaker 1: and they don't need to know who you are. But
Speaker 1: there are times when they fail to act correctly, and
Speaker 1: Uvalde was one of those times.
Speaker 2: What do you think it was or was uh the
Speaker 2: biggest misunderstanding about what happened at Sutherland.
Speaker 1: Well, there there was just all kinds of speculation in
Speaker 1: Sutherland Springs, you know, and you know it just it
Speaker 1: was just one guy, and and you know, until everything
Speaker 1: came out and settled down, people were trying to make it.
Speaker 1: I saw so many false reports on TV and stuff,
Speaker 1: even before my name came out. I actually after the
Speaker 1: shooting was done and I had to stay at the
Speaker 1: crash scene for four and a half hours before law
Speaker 1: enforcement would let me go home. They did let me
Speaker 1: go home that night, and when I got home and
Speaker 1: I turned on the television, they were saying that the
Speaker 1: guy had a shootout with the police and the police
Speaker 1: shot it. I guess. The first report was is that
Speaker 1: he had to shoot out with police and he committed suicide,
Speaker 1: is what they said. And then the next report said
Speaker 1: that it had to shoot out with the police, and
Speaker 1: the police shotting and then finally and I was okay
Speaker 1: with that. I didn't care if anybody knew who I
Speaker 1: was at all. I was okay if the police wanted
Speaker 1: to take credit for I didn't care. I just was
Speaker 1: in total shock. But later on that night they interviewed Johnny,
Speaker 1: and Johnny was the guy that drove the truck that
Speaker 1: I flattened down, and they interviewed him, and Johnny didn't
Speaker 1: know my name. And that's when the report came out
Speaker 1: that a neighbor was the one that engaged a shooter
Speaker 1: and took the shooter out, and they didn't know my name.
Speaker 1: And I was thought, well, you know, maybe maybe it'll
Speaker 1: go away and know no one will know who I am.
Speaker 1: And that didn't happen. They figured out who I was
Speaker 1: and the next by the next morning, when I turned
Speaker 1: on television, they had a picture of me on the
Speaker 1: television and it's a fifty five year old retired plumber,
Speaker 1: Steven Woollaford. I was like, man, they knew what I
Speaker 1: did for a living, knew that I was retired, knew
Speaker 1: that everything, you know. I couldn't believe that they got
Speaker 1: all that information. Nowadays, it's the age of information and
Speaker 1: anything you can find out about anybody.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a big reason why people don't trust
Speaker 2: the mainstream media anymore. Right, they don't know any more
Speaker 2: than what the regular average person knows.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, they get.
Speaker 2: The reporting wrong just as easily as anybody else stuts.
Speaker 1: Oh, and the reporting was horribly wrong, horribly wrong.
Speaker 2: Which is really just insanity, because if they can get
Speaker 2: this story wrong so quickly, so fast, then how many
Speaker 2: other stories have they gotten wrong? And the problem is
Speaker 2: with that is that normally the first reporting is kind
Speaker 2: of the thing that sticks the most in people's mind, Right,
Speaker 2: whenever they hear the first report, that they might not
Speaker 2: hear the second one. They might not hear the third one, right,
Speaker 2: So then they're misinformed about that event because they didn't
Speaker 2: hear the other ones. Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I even heard rumors that he had taken hostages
Speaker 1: and stuff, and that was none of that was true.
Speaker 1: He didn't want hostages. He wanted to right, Dad.
Speaker 2: Now, whenever you chased him in the vehicle, what was
Speaker 2: the gentleman's name that you got in.
Speaker 1: The truck with, Johnny Langendorf Landorf?
Speaker 2: Now, whenever you got in the vehicle with him and
Speaker 2: started chasing him, and you got to that standoff situation.
Speaker 2: How long was it until the police arrived.
Speaker 1: By their on admission, five to seven minutes. To me,
Speaker 1: it seems like seemed like an eternity because I got out,
Speaker 1: he crashed. They said he turned the pistol up under
Speaker 1: the his helmet and shot himself. But I Hittinghi between
Speaker 1: the plates in the side, and I hit him high
Speaker 1: in the legs and a busted went across his forehead.
Speaker 1: I believe he was coughing up his own lungs, and
Speaker 1: I believe he was dying as it was. And I
Speaker 1: didn't hear the shot when he committed suicide. They said
Speaker 1: he committed suicide, so I didn't know, and I was
Speaker 1: standing there holding my rifle. He crashed through a fence
Speaker 1: and ran out in the field about fifty yards and stopped,
Speaker 1: and Johnny brought a struck up behind me where he
Speaker 1: ran off the road. And so I was standing behind
Speaker 1: the hood of Johnny's truck for another five to seven
Speaker 1: minutes before law enforcement showed up. So it took them
Speaker 1: five to seven minutes before they got there.
Speaker 2: And how did they know where you and Johnny were
Speaker 2: in where the perpetrator.
Speaker 1: Was, because as when I got in the truck with Johnny,
Speaker 1: he was already on the phone with nine one one,
Speaker 1: and they put him straight through the dispatch because we
Speaker 1: had eyes on the murder. And that was really good
Speaker 1: because they already knew I wasn't a bad guy, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, you know. And when they finally
Speaker 1: got there, they were about fifty yards from us, and
Speaker 1: he hit the microphone and called out on him, PA system, driver,
Speaker 1: get out of the vehicle with your hands up. And
Speaker 1: I turned and looked up the road to my left
Speaker 1: and I saw him there, and he keeped the mic again.
Speaker 1: He said it again, driver, get out of the vehicles
Speaker 1: with your hands up. And I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: there were no mistakes, so I laid my rifle on
Speaker 1: top of the hood of Johnny's truck, and I came
Speaker 1: back to the back of the truck with my hands
Speaker 1: up and started walking slowly back to the back of
Speaker 1: the truck. And he looked at me and he made
Speaker 1: eye contact, keeped the mic and he said, not you.
Speaker 1: So he knew who I was. He knew that I
Speaker 1: had shot the shooter, and that chased him there so
Speaker 1: law enforcement AI knew where we were a little bit
Speaker 1: about what happened, and Johnny witnessed from the moment he
Speaker 1: came out of the church and starts shooting at me,
Speaker 1: and Johnny witnessed me return firing and shooting at him,
Speaker 1: him getting in the vehicle and speeding off. And again
Speaker 1: I plied Johnny down and I tapped on his window
Speaker 1: and said, that guy shot up the Baptist church and
Speaker 1: we have to stop him. And honestly, any sane America
Speaker 1: and would have just drove off and left me there
Speaker 1: at the stop sign. But this is Texas we're talking about.
Speaker 1: We're not necessarily known for sanity. Next thing I heard
Speaker 1: with the locks open up, and I crawled up in
Speaker 1: the cab with him and we chased.
Speaker 2: Now, how long were from the time that the police
Speaker 2: arrived at the standoff where the crash happened. Wasn't it
Speaker 2: until he shot himself?
Speaker 1: When they say he shot himself wall And that's why
Speaker 1: I ran off the road, so before they ever got there.
Speaker 1: But I didn't hear a shot. He ran off the road,
Speaker 1: ran through the fence, and again Johnny stopped the vehicle
Speaker 1: and I got out and I put my rifle over
Speaker 1: the out of the vehicle once again. But they believe
Speaker 1: he shot himself while we were chasing.
Speaker 2: Does that line up with what you saw? Did you
Speaker 2: see any movement? Did you see any movement in the
Speaker 2: truck whenever you had the rifle on him.
Speaker 1: I could not see through the where he was. He
Speaker 1: was parked at an angle. The back glass was shattered.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's got the bucket seats he was in
Speaker 1: and uh but and and he was kind of at
Speaker 1: a slight angle away from me. But I couldn't see
Speaker 1: into the driver side window. It was a Ford uh
Speaker 1: Ford escape and I couldn't see into it. And I
Speaker 1: couldn't see any movement. I didn't know. And I was
Speaker 1: yelling get out of the get out of the car,
Speaker 1: Get out of the car, Get out of the car,
Speaker 1: and some rude obscenities with that, And I hope I
Speaker 1: don't forgive me for the language that I used, but
Speaker 1: I was a little bit angry. I'd never been shot
Speaker 1: at before.
Speaker 2: So you didn't see any movement. They said that he
Speaker 2: shot himself while he was fleean while he was being
Speaker 2: chased by you guys, and that's why he crashed the vehicle.
Speaker 2: So when the police showed up, they told him to
Speaker 2: get out of the car, to get out of the vehicle.
Speaker 2: He didn't get out of the vehicle. So did they
Speaker 2: approach the vehicle and open the door and find out
Speaker 2: that he had shot him?
Speaker 1: So I was fifty yards away from them, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know what was going on, and I sit there
Speaker 1: for forty five minutes waiting for them to approach the vehicle,
Speaker 1: thinking they would at least come relieve me or whatever.
Speaker 1: And finally I decided to run back to the police line,
Speaker 1: and they started yelling no, no, no, no, wait there,
Speaker 1: We'll bring up a police cruiser. They brought up a
Speaker 1: police car so I could get down beside it and
Speaker 1: walk back to the police line. And then I found
Speaker 1: out later what happened. They didn't want to approach the
Speaker 1: vehicle because they didn't know whether he was live or
Speaker 1: dead or anything. And one of the police officers had
Speaker 1: two weeks prior to that, had gotten a drone for
Speaker 1: his birthday with a camera, and he thought, I want
Speaker 1: to run the house and get the drone, and they
Speaker 1: let him go to get the drone to bring a
Speaker 1: drone back so they could fly the drone over to
Speaker 1: the vehicle and look inside the vehicle without risking an officer,
Speaker 1: which was just good sense. They flew a drone over
Speaker 1: there and looked and figured out that he had he
Speaker 1: had killed himself before they approached the car.
Speaker 2: That makes sense, that would be the smart thing to do,
Speaker 2: because I was just curious if because if you couldn't
Speaker 2: see that he was dead, then how could they see
Speaker 2: that he was dead? And how would they approach the
Speaker 2: vehicle not knowing if he's dead or alive? Right, that
Speaker 2: would be a dangerous situation approaching the vehicle knowing that
Speaker 2: the shooter is inside of the vehicle, and you know,
Speaker 2: you just wouldn't want to approach her, right that for
Speaker 2: your safety? Right?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely? I applaud. I didn't know what was going
Speaker 1: on at the time, and I was thinking of waiting
Speaker 1: for him to bleed to death. Why aren't they going
Speaker 1: up there? And you know what are they waiting for? Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't know the full story, and they were waiting
Speaker 1: for a drone so that they could fly it over
Speaker 1: risk a drone other than a man, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's just good sense.
Speaker 2: And how long did that last? Well, I mean to
Speaker 2: go get a drone to fly the drone like forty
Speaker 2: five minutes to an hour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was there standing at Johnny's truck anywhere from
Speaker 1: thirty to forty five minutes before I ran back to
Speaker 1: the to the police line, and shortly after they flew
Speaker 1: the d and I wasn't even focused on what was
Speaker 1: going on down there, but they flew the drone. Over
Speaker 1: All I was worried about at that time. I could
Speaker 1: look up the road and about two hundred yards up
Speaker 1: the road, fire department had set up a roadblock, and
Speaker 1: I could see my wife's car down there, and there's
Speaker 1: no one in this world I wanted to speak to
Speaker 1: more than my wife. I've been married now for almost
Speaker 1: thirty eight years, and that was nine years ago. But
Speaker 1: you know, I really didn't care what the rest of
Speaker 1: the world thought. I wanted to speak to my Wifeus
Speaker 1: was that. And a police officer walked by and I said,
Speaker 1: excuse me, can I call my wife? And he said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: go ahead, I said, and he kept walking. I said, no,
Speaker 1: I don't have a phone. He said, you don't have
Speaker 1: a phone. I said, I don't have my shoes.
Speaker 2: The phone is the.
Speaker 1: Thing I was concerned with. I needed my rifle I
Speaker 1: didn't need my phone. I didn't need my shoes, and
Speaker 1: so he walked back and he gave me his phone
Speaker 1: and I called my wife and there was a moment,
Speaker 1: you know, I needed something from my wife. And she
Speaker 1: answered the phone and I said, I said, Pam, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm okay. She said, I could see you were walking
Speaker 1: around down there, so I know you're not injured. But
Speaker 1: are you really okay? And I said, I think I
Speaker 1: I killed a man. And she said, you did what
Speaker 1: you had to do, and I said, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: make it hurt less. And she replied, you did what
Speaker 1: you had to do, and I'm proud of you. That's
Speaker 1: what I needed from her. Really didn't care what anyone
Speaker 1: else thought. I cared what my wife thought, and that
Speaker 1: was it. And when she said I'm proud of you,
Speaker 1: I knew I was going to get through it. Even
Speaker 1: if I had to go to jail that day, I
Speaker 1: was going to get through it. And I honestly thought
Speaker 1: that I would go to jail, and I figured that
Speaker 1: they would look at all the evidence and I would
Speaker 1: be exonerated. I would be free again. But I thought
Speaker 1: I was going to jail. Turned out I never did
Speaker 1: go to jail at all.
Speaker 2: An incredible thing that you did, you know, and your
Speaker 2: wife telling you that is just a confirmation because you
Speaker 2: obviously didn't know that you weren't the one that had
Speaker 2: delivered that final blow to him, that it was himself.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that your mind was just completely all
Speaker 2: over the place, like all of the different possibilities that
Speaker 2: could potentially come up out of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just have no idea. And and it was.
Speaker 1: It was right after the Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman
Speaker 1: case too, And what happened is they didn't arrest George Zimmerman,
Speaker 1: and Trayvon Martin died and there was a big thing
Speaker 1: about that you should have arrested him and then figured
Speaker 1: out whether he was in innocent or guilty later. And
Speaker 1: so there was that fresh on my mind, thinking that
Speaker 1: they're gonna arrest me and they didn't, And I'm glad
Speaker 1: of that. It's Texas and we have a different attitude
Speaker 1: about those that will defend themselves and others, and that's great.
Speaker 1: I used an AR fifteen and some states that would
Speaker 1: have been horrible. You know, there were all kinds of
Speaker 1: reasons that you know, other states might have looked down
Speaker 1: on what I did.
Speaker 2: Definitely, California, Holy crap, California, you would already have been arrested.
Speaker 2: They just passed that law where someone can break in
Speaker 2: your home and a few shoot them, then you're liable
Speaker 2: for it. Insanity. California is insanity.
Speaker 1: Well in California and a lot of states, that last
Speaker 1: shot that I took is he was fleeing. I took
Speaker 1: through the back windshield. A lot of states that would
Speaker 1: have said he was fleeing, you were no longer in danger.
Speaker 1: That shot was illegal. However, in the state of Texas,
Speaker 1: he was still a danger to someone. He still had guns,
Speaker 1: he still was leaving, and I had no idea what
Speaker 1: kind of condition he was in. He was still a
Speaker 1: danger if absolutely nothing else, he was going to have
Speaker 1: a shootout with police in my mind, and so that
Speaker 1: last shot in Texas was justified. Other states not so much.
Speaker 1: Please go to gun owners dot org, sign up and
Speaker 1: be part of that solution. We should be all to
Speaker 1: defend our communities and ourselves and everyone around us, and
Speaker 1: we should be able to do it with an AR
Speaker 1: fifteen or whatever we choose. There's more good guys out
Speaker 1: there than there are bad guys, and laws only apply
Speaker 1: to good guys. Bad guys ignore them, and that's why
Speaker 1: they're called criminals.
Speaker 2: Do you still live in the same residence that you
Speaker 2: lived in in twenty seventeen?
Speaker 1: No, Actually I built So I grew up on a
Speaker 1: dairy and I owned two hundred acres of land that
Speaker 1: was part of that dairy. And ultimately my end goal
Speaker 1: was to build on my property. And my house was
Speaker 1: already paid off, and I was already, you know, looking
Speaker 1: at selling that house to build on my property. And
Speaker 1: so I was able to do that. I sold the
Speaker 1: other home and look, I have a man cave in
Speaker 1: this house. I didn't have my man cave in the
Speaker 1: other house. And this was ultimately my goal.
Speaker 2: So what happened to the church? Is the church still standing?
Speaker 2: Do they still have church services there? No?
Speaker 1: They North American Missions helped fund a brand new church
Speaker 1: building and the old building that was over one hundred
Speaker 1: years old was falling apart anyway, and they built a
Speaker 1: brand new building and they ended up tearing down the
Speaker 1: old church because it was actually a danger. Some of
Speaker 1: the beams up in the in the ceiling were collapsing
Speaker 1: and the old it would blow fuses. It had fuses
Speaker 1: instead of breakers, so the electricity would blow fuses and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it was just a hazard. So they chose to
Speaker 1: tear down the old building and everything's moved into a
Speaker 1: brand new, big, beautiful facility and they still home worship
Speaker 1: and stuff. They're on the same property, but the old
Speaker 1: building has gone and now there's a historical marker in
Speaker 1: its place.
Speaker 2: So they tore down the old church and replaced it
Speaker 2: with a new one on the same property. Yes, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I want to go a little bit more modern here
Speaker 2: with you know, today's times, because it kind of seems
Speaker 2: like mass shooters aren't in fashion. It seems like assassinations
Speaker 2: an assassination attempts are the new thing. But it's not
Speaker 2: really the new thing. It's actually the old thing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It seems like we're kind of wrapping back around to
Speaker 2: the sixties and the seventies right when it comes to
Speaker 2: political assassinations and political assassination attempts. And I feel like
Speaker 2: this kind of started again around twenty twenty four with
Speaker 2: the Luigi case with you know, him being accused of
Speaker 2: killing the gentleman in Manhattan named Brian Thompson, and which
Speaker 2: he pleaded not guilty to that murder and other court charges.
Speaker 2: The case is still ongoing as expected to go to
Speaker 2: trial in September of this year, I believe. And then
Speaker 2: we had the attempted assassination of Grump and Butler, which
Speaker 2: absolutely no investigation was carried out on that, which was
Speaker 2: super odd, not even a press conference after the fact.
Speaker 2: And then we get the Charlie Kirk assassination, which is
Speaker 2: a cluster of a bunch of things that don't make
Speaker 2: any sense. Then we have the most recent attempts at
Speaker 2: the White House correspondence dinner and the one here recently
Speaker 2: actually at the White House. But before we get into those,
Speaker 2: do you have any comments on the ones that I
Speaker 2: just mentioned.
Speaker 1: This country is so divided, and it's terrible that we're
Speaker 1: so divided, and the rhetoric is what's causing crazy people
Speaker 1: to act on things that they should never be and again,
Speaker 1: the rhetoric that is being put out there, we have
Speaker 1: to get back to civility, and we have to get
Speaker 1: back to agreeing to disagree and not thinking the other
Speaker 1: side is evil when we disagree, and not putting it
Speaker 1: out there as evil, because if everybody believes there's evil
Speaker 1: around every corner, that everyone. If you disagree with me
Speaker 1: in the slightest you must have evil attempt intent, and
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the case. You know, we all would
Speaker 1: love to have a safe place for our children to
Speaker 1: go to church and for our children to go to school.
Speaker 1: We'd like to have safe streets. How we go about
Speaker 1: it are separate reasons or separate things. You know, they
Speaker 1: want to ban all guns from the hands of law
Speaker 1: abiding citizens, and they said, if we take your guns away,
Speaker 1: then criminals will have guns. Well, that's ridiculous. Criminals are
Speaker 1: going to get guns no matter what, even in England
Speaker 1: when and in France, where guns are totally illegal, they
Speaker 1: came in with full automatic AK forty seven's in France
Speaker 1: and nobody could stop them, and they went in and
Speaker 1: they killed the cartoonists. You know, that's thinking that criminals
Speaker 1: are just going to comply with all the gun laws
Speaker 1: that they want to put out there. That's not the
Speaker 1: case and that's not going to happen. And they think
Speaker 1: I'm evil because I have an AR fifteen and that's
Speaker 1: just not the case. I used my AR fifteen to
Speaker 1: defend my community. And they say, over a million times
Speaker 1: a year someone defends their own life or someone else's
Speaker 1: with a gun. But you don't hear about all of
Speaker 1: those cases. It's only when somebody uses a gun for
Speaker 1: inappropriate purposes that you hear about it.
Speaker 2: Well, we got Canada right now trying to do a
Speaker 2: gun buy back program.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of that? Oh, that's just ridiculous. First off,
Speaker 1: and buy back they never owned them. You can't buy
Speaker 1: it back if you never owned them. And what if
Speaker 1: I don't want to sell, it's not a buy back,
Speaker 1: it's a force and you're going to give me a
Speaker 1: little bit of what it's worth a little bit, but
Speaker 1: not all all of what it's worth. And even if
Speaker 1: I don't want to sell it, you know, not yours.
Speaker 1: I bought it because I wanted it, not your business
Speaker 1: and not your right to buy it. To force me
Speaker 1: to give up anything to defend my life, my wife,
Speaker 1: it's my family, my neighbors, and even my country. Second
Speaker 1: Amendment was made to defend this nation against a tyrannical government.
Speaker 1: And when you're trying to force me to take to
Speaker 1: sacrifice my guns to give them in, you're starting to
Speaker 1: look like a tyrannical government.
Speaker 2: That is definitely what it seems like in a lot
Speaker 2: of cases. But I find the Canada thing very alarming
Speaker 2: because I guess they're talking about possibly if they're aware
Speaker 2: that you have guns and you don't turn them in,
Speaker 2: and then what happens when this period is over, They
Speaker 2: going to literally come to your house and force you
Speaker 2: to get rid of your guns. I mean, and I
Speaker 2: think that that has been what people have been talking
Speaker 2: about in the unit United States for a long time now,
Speaker 2: is that it could possibly get to that point.
Speaker 1: And so they say they don't want gun violence, but
Speaker 1: they're going to send violent men with guns to come
Speaker 1: take my guns. Does that make any sense for you?
Speaker 2: Not at all? Not one, not one little bit.
Speaker 1: And and the people that are pushing this aren't the
Speaker 1: ones that are going to go enforce it. They're not
Speaker 1: the ones that are going to go door to door
Speaker 1: and maybe get shot for trying to pick up guns illegally.
Speaker 1: And right now it looks like Canada's got some issues.
Speaker 1: Alberta is about to walk away. They don't want any
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how that that thing ends, because
Speaker 2: I think it's like, what is it like a six
Speaker 2: month period or whatever that they have to turn in
Speaker 2: their guns, and once that six month period ends. Nobody
Speaker 2: really knows what happens after.
Speaker 1: That, and no one's turning their guns in or very
Speaker 1: very few. Look at what happened in Bondi Beach, Australia.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that happening in Texas on a beach
Speaker 1: where two guys just start murdering people. You don't think
Speaker 1: there'd be a Texan there with a gun that would
Speaker 1: stop it. And then on Bondi Beach, even the police
Speaker 1: were sitting there waiting and one policewoman raised her hands
Speaker 1: to surrender. You think they wanted her to surrender. She
Speaker 1: wasn't surrendering. They kind of killer. There is no surrender
Speaker 1: when it's crazy people like that.
Speaker 2: The Canada thing is by October thirtieth, twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: the declaration like this is what it's saying is that
Speaker 2: it's like this mandatory period and if they all aren't
Speaker 2: turned in the designated firearms that the government once turned in.
Speaker 2: According to this is that by October thirtieth, twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: if they're not turned in, then they can be criminally prosecuted.
Speaker 2: According to this, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And they want the neighbors to tell on each other
Speaker 1: and snitch on each other and whatever. You know, that's
Speaker 1: so totally government overreach. And even if you turned in
Speaker 1: yours that you signed for yourself, there's so many guns
Speaker 1: that come across their border. There's no way they can know,
Speaker 1: no way they can know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that China has a really strong foothold
Speaker 2: in Canada. China owns a lot of property in.
Speaker 1: Canada, that's a fact. Yeah, when we start, when we
Speaker 1: start closing down our southern border, apparently the pentanole from
Speaker 1: China start started coming across the Canadian border.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, that's unbelievable. That's uh. But I guess strategically
Speaker 2: for China that would be the best way to do it.
Speaker 2: A lot more travel involved, but the Canadian border is
Speaker 2: not as nearly guarded as the southern border.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Please gun owners dot or org sign up fight
Speaker 1: for your rights so that we don't end up like
Speaker 1: Canada or Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really bad one too. I think maybe
Speaker 2: the UK as well. I'm not too sure on the
Speaker 2: laws in the UK, but I think it's kind of somewhere.
Speaker 1: You know. Ronald Reagan said it best when he said
Speaker 1: freedom is no more than a generation away from a distinction.
Speaker 1: It wasn't passed down through the bloodline, but it must
Speaker 1: be fought for and protected and handed down for the
Speaker 1: next generation to do the same. And then he said,
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend my twilight years explaining to
Speaker 1: my grandchildren what it was like living in a free nation.
Speaker 1: You have to be out there, you have to be active,
Speaker 1: you have to be fighting for this free nation to
Speaker 1: hand it down to your kids and your grandkids. And
Speaker 1: that's what Gioa is doing now.
Speaker 2: Yes, Canada is private. Citizens can only possess firearms for sport,
Speaker 2: hunting and occupational use. Handguns, semi automatic, these fire rifles
Speaker 2: are strictly prohibited. But shotguns and rifles, I guess.
Speaker 1: And the government any of it. What was that the
Speaker 1: government can have any of it? Yeah, they can have
Speaker 1: what they want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable. We're living in super strange times. But
Speaker 2: thanks so much for coming on. From my understanding, you
Speaker 2: wrote a book. Where can people We'll purchase or read
Speaker 2: your book.
Speaker 1: You can go find my book in Amazon. A town
Speaker 1: called Sutherland Springs. Please purchase my book. It's again, it's
Speaker 1: a town called Sutherland Springs. And if you like it,
Speaker 1: give me a thumbs up, give me a review on
Speaker 1: it on Amazon. If you don't like it, ignore that. No, hey,
Speaker 1: go to Amazon, buy the book and give me a review.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time here today. Steven
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. If you're interested in purchasing his book,
Speaker 2: the link will be in the description of this video.
Speaker 2: For everyone else, thanks for watching and listening. Please be
Speaker 2: sure to hit the thumbs up button, op the channel
Speaker 2: and the algorithm, share subscribe, hit the bell icon as
Speaker 2: well for notifications, and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 1: Bye bye,