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<v Speaker 1>I realize I'm a talk show host and everybody's like

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<v Speaker 1>you're a part of the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Mostly nice, and I try to keep our discussions on

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<v Speaker 1>policy not personal right, and I try to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the issues rather than the people, and I'm very purposeful

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<v Speaker 1>about that, and sometimes I'm better than others. I'm certainly

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<v Speaker 1>not perfect, and it's always a work in progress. But

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<v Speaker 1>my guests right now are working within two different organizations

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<v Speaker 1>with a similar aligned goal, and the first one that

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to. We've got Lori Leander from

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<v Speaker 1>Braver Angels first of all, and Sandra Brownrigg from Restoring Civility.

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<v Speaker 2>But we're going to start with Lori because Lourie Braver.

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<v Speaker 1>Angels came onto my radar pretty quickly after it was created,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've had somebody on from braver Angels a while ago.

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<v Speaker 1>But why don't you tell my audience, who might not

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<v Speaker 1>have heard of braver Angels, what exactly it is and

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<v Speaker 1>what you guys do.

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<v Speaker 3>Sandra, do you want to go ahead? Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Sorry?

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<v Speaker 3>I did you back?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Backers, Sorry, Sandra, I tell you it's the vacation brain.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Jack. That's my excuse. Sandra brownrig is with Braver Angels.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's try that again. Go ahead, Sandra, all.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, you I think you had. I'm gonna butcher

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<v Speaker 3>the name. But Karen O'Connor on in twenty nineteen from

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<v Speaker 3>Braver Angels. We started in twenty sixteen after President Trump

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<v Speaker 3>was elected because we wanted to bridge the divide and

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<v Speaker 3>strengthen our constitutional republic. And I got involved in twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty two because I was volunteering within the school district

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<v Speaker 3>in Douglas County and the political polarity was causing harm

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<v Speaker 3>to the schools, to the students, to the teachers. So

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<v Speaker 3>I look for an organization that could help with that

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<v Speaker 3>and I found Braver Angels.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me, just tell me a.

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<v Speaker 1>Little bit about what the mission of braver Angels is,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's pretty simple.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the largest grassroots organization in the nation dedicated to

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<v Speaker 3>bridging the divide and strengthening the constitutional Republic. So we

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<v Speaker 3>heal the divide. That's what we do. We bring people

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<v Speaker 3>together to have scratchy conversations on issues like you said,

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<v Speaker 3>versus assuming that people should stay in their echo chambers

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<v Speaker 3>and mindlessly agree with other people who they think think

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<v Speaker 3>like them. So we bring people in to bridge that

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<v Speaker 3>divide and have those conversations. So we do it through debates,

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<v Speaker 3>We do it through workshops, we do it through book

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<v Speaker 3>clubs and film screenings, whatever it takes to build that

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<v Speaker 3>connection and remind people that we have more commonality than

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<v Speaker 3>we do differences. And when we do have differences, how

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<v Speaker 3>do we disagree?

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<v Speaker 1>I want to ask a little bit of a follow up,

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<v Speaker 1>because everyone that I know who has been involved with

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<v Speaker 1>Braver Angels has definitely been a right leaner. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>have the same level of participation from people on the left.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that there are.

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<v Speaker 1>People on the left who want to have a higher

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<v Speaker 1>level of dialogue, who have the same feelings about it

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<v Speaker 1>that we have. Are you able to bring them into

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<v Speaker 1>the fold for these events so we can truly that process.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually, yes, the up until the twenty twenty four elections,

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<v Speaker 3>we had many more people who leaned left we'd call

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<v Speaker 3>them blues than we did reds. Especially in Colorado, there

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<v Speaker 3>was kind of an intentional desire to pull back from

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<v Speaker 3>reaching across the aisle, and the Blues were leaning in

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<v Speaker 3>partly because I think they thought they were going to

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<v Speaker 3>win the election, and they really were trying to heal

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<v Speaker 3>that divide, but then the election disrupted that and now

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<v Speaker 3>we're seeing people on each side come back in. The

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<v Speaker 3>Blues retracted for a while, but they're coming back in.

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<v Speaker 3>So at our event over the weekend, we had a

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<v Speaker 3>balanced group of reds and blues discussing how skills to

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<v Speaker 3>families and politics, and then we had a debate on gender,

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<v Speaker 3>id and schools, and it was fascinating to see people

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<v Speaker 3>come together and have those discussions.

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<v Speaker 1>That's very encouraging. That makes me very very happy because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think, I know for a fact, there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people on the left who are just

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<v Speaker 1>as tired of the vitriol and nastiness. Unfortunately, the nastiest

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<v Speaker 1>on the left and the right are the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>suck up all the oxygen on social media and in

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<v Speaker 1>other places. So it gives the impression that there are

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<v Speaker 1>everybody's on the same level of nasty, when I actually

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<v Speaker 1>think a much larger section of people are like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we should be able to have a discussion and not

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<v Speaker 1>you know, call the other person evil or or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the worst thing ever. So I'm actually super pleased to

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<v Speaker 1>hear that, Sandra, that you guys have seen that rebound.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me go to Lori.

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<v Speaker 1>Lori Leander is a founder. Let me see if I

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<v Speaker 1>can get this right of reclaiming civilitation, not giving you

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tell me, I'm the co founder.

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<v Speaker 3>I have that. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 4>I have a business partner named Lisa Brandt who couldn't

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<v Speaker 4>be with us today. But it's interesting you're talking about

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<v Speaker 4>the loudest voices on either end, and we're hearing a

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<v Speaker 4>lot about this exhausted majority in the middle, people who

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<v Speaker 4>hired the incability and don't want to just complain.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to do something.

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<v Speaker 4>People who don't want to be afraid to bring their

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<v Speaker 4>authentic opinions to the table for fear of losing relationship

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<v Speaker 4>or repercussions in the workplace. And we're here to link

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<v Speaker 4>arms with those people and teach them the skills to

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<v Speaker 4>help them develop warm connection, to how fruitful dialogue over difference,

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<v Speaker 4>and even to de escalate conflict. And those skills range

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<v Speaker 4>anywhere from emotional intelligence to the power of basic manners

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<v Speaker 4>like saying please and thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I will tell you I My wonderful friend Deborah Flora

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<v Speaker 1>and her husband and so many other wonderful people have

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<v Speaker 1>created an organization very Douglas County specific. Right, it's called

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<v Speaker 1>Douglas County Citizenry, same thing that you guys are trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do. But the only reason I bring it up

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<v Speaker 1>now is we went I got to moderate a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>about this home rule initiative, and what I found striking

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<v Speaker 1>was that there was oddviously people in the audience that

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<v Speaker 1>are on the left, but they were able to get

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<v Speaker 1>their questions answered. And aside from some snide commentary from

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<v Speaker 1>one of the commissioners that I thought was uncalled for, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was a very everybody was open.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody just wanted to learn right, They wanted to find

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<v Speaker 1>out more, And it just really underscored for me what

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<v Speaker 1>both of you ladies probably know far better. And there

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<v Speaker 1>is this first there's this hunger to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>have those conversations without worrying about getting socked in the nose,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean rather rhetorically or actually so now, Laurie,

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<v Speaker 1>is your organization locally because I know Braver Angels is nationwide?

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<v Speaker 1>So is your organization local or is it also nationwide?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we actually said we are launching on July twenth.

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<v Speaker 4>We're helping our launch event here where we're having an

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<v Speaker 4>astronaut speak on stability in the space station, and we

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<v Speaker 4>really want to reach out to our local community. But

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<v Speaker 4>we're part of a nationwide initiative called jex Stivility, and

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<v Speaker 4>we were actually part of planning two nationwide conferences. So

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<v Speaker 4>all those events can be found on our website for

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<v Speaker 4>people who are interested.

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<v Speaker 2>Now let me ask this question.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know if your better positioned, Sandra, or

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<v Speaker 1>if you can address this LORI. It's easy to be

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<v Speaker 1>magnanimous when you've just won, right, it's easy to say

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<v Speaker 1>we need to elevate the dialogue when your team is

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<v Speaker 1>in charge. Did you find a consistent number of people

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<v Speaker 1>on the right, And Sandra, gus will direct this question

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<v Speaker 1>to you during the Biden administration when they were not

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<v Speaker 1>in charge, when it was far more tempting to drop

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<v Speaker 1>back into those sort of, you know, vitriolic positions. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering because you said there was a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a pullback after the election. Is that a natural

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<v Speaker 1>ebb and flow? Do you think or can we get

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<v Speaker 1>to a point that everybody, regardless of who's in charge,

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<v Speaker 1>is pursuing these same goals.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think I'll answer that tangentially US. Forty nine

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<v Speaker 3>percent of the citizenry in Colorado is unaffiliated. And so

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<v Speaker 3>the interesting phenomenon that I've seen for our Braver Angels

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<v Speaker 3>initiatives is that those unaffiliated come to them because they're nonpartisan.

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<v Speaker 3>So we're having a debate on gun laws in July

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<v Speaker 3>and a debate on religion in August, and they know

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<v Speaker 3>that's nonpartisan, so they'll come to the event. They'll hear

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<v Speaker 3>the speakers who may be partisan, but you have all

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<v Speaker 3>of the people in the room. So it's for the

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<v Speaker 3>left and the right. It is about who's in charge

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<v Speaker 3>as far as the willingness to engage. But it should

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<v Speaker 3>be a math problem that everybody wants to talk to

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<v Speaker 3>those people who are not speaking up, not being heard,

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<v Speaker 3>to find out what they think. And I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>anybody is just fully on board with whatever platform a

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<v Speaker 3>party has put out there. We all have radical ideas.

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<v Speaker 3>We might be what do you call yourself a concerned libreservative.

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<v Speaker 1>I got myself a liberservative for the last time I

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<v Speaker 1>said I'm a libertarian. But there are certain things where

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<v Speaker 1>I have gotten more conservative over the years after seeing

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<v Speaker 1>the outcome of some of the truly libertarian positions I

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<v Speaker 1>have definitely shifted on some of my positions, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think I think there's a lot more people like me

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<v Speaker 1>right who may be a liberal liberal know so then

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<v Speaker 1>are just kind of a little bit squishy depending on

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<v Speaker 1>which issue you're talking about right.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's kind of where I've landed, is that we

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<v Speaker 3>use left and right so that we can actually categorize

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<v Speaker 3>our stereotype people who we think are different from us right.

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<v Speaker 3>And so if you suspend that, you simply come in

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<v Speaker 3>and say, well, what do you think about us and such?

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<v Speaker 3>Then you find you find alignment almost immediately, and from

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<v Speaker 3>there you can proceed to how you differ. So I've

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<v Speaker 3>got something on my Facebook page, my personal page, about

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<v Speaker 3>what happened about the bombing, and I've got people from

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<v Speaker 3>all different political perspectives on there and they're having a conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>And I look at that and I think, Okay, we

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<v Speaker 3>need more of that, please, because it's civil. It's very definite,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's still very civil.

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<v Speaker 1>Laurie, tell me about your event coming up. You've got

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<v Speaker 1>an astronaut coming to talk about civility. And when I

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<v Speaker 1>first saw this, I was like, it didn't even occur

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<v Speaker 1>to me that if you're going to be on the

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<v Speaker 1>space station for six months, you better be able to

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<v Speaker 1>get along with everybody because talk about close quarters.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you get this guy right?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it's someone that we know from the community, and

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<v Speaker 4>he was on the International Space Station and had this

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<v Speaker 4>you know, spoiler alert. He had this amazing interaction with

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<v Speaker 4>the Russians over coffee, and so he tells his story,

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<v Speaker 4>and the point is that as human beings, we have

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<v Speaker 4>more in common than in contrast. You know, one of

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<v Speaker 4>our heroes is a man named Daryl Davis. He's a

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<v Speaker 4>black man who made friends with a Grand Wizard of

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<v Speaker 4>the Ku Klux Klan and through that friendship.

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<v Speaker 3>The Grand Wizard gave up his position.

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<v Speaker 4>To date, Darryl has collected over two hundred robes, medallions,

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<v Speaker 4>and hoods of people who have changed their mind because

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<v Speaker 4>of friendship. So we really believe that it all starts

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<v Speaker 4>with relationship. And no matter what side of the aisle

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<v Speaker 4>you're on, people are craving that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I understand your question.

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<v Speaker 2>For Sandra, there could be.

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<v Speaker 4>A ping, you know, based on who's in charge, but

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's just a general We're tired of this.

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<v Speaker 4>Good people who really want to be civil. They want

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<v Speaker 4>to treat people respectfully. So we're starting to see the

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<v Speaker 4>needle shift and there's kind of momentum going, kind of

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<v Speaker 4>a movement towards back towards We call it reclaiming civility

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<v Speaker 4>because there's been evan flow all through history from the

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<v Speaker 4>very beginning. We want to reclaim that civility that wants

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<v Speaker 4>was there.

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<v Speaker 1>I think people are just exhausted, you know, it is.

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<v Speaker 1>I have one of my dear friends is a left

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<v Speaker 1>wing Democrat, and we've been friends since childhood. And when

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<v Speaker 1>I say dear friends, like she's my ride or die

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<v Speaker 1>on many many issues, right, But we have always been

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<v Speaker 1>able to have respectful conversations about politics because we have

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<v Speaker 1>a foundation of genuine love for each other, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a deep and abiding love there. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, the way she consumes politics and news, it

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<v Speaker 1>is perpetually upsetting to her. And I think she's representative

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot of people who are every day it's whiplash,

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<v Speaker 1>it's every day.

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<v Speaker 2>What's happening?

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<v Speaker 3>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>Every day? What do I have to worry about?

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<v Speaker 1>And I love the fact that you are just focusing

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<v Speaker 1>on the human connections because that those underpinnings. That human

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<v Speaker 1>connection that I have with her is the thing that

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<v Speaker 1>has kept our friendship going for fifty years now, because

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<v Speaker 1>we're first and foremost, we are deep and abiding friends.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love to think that we're going to get

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<v Speaker 1>back to a point where you're going to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to disagree with a family member or disagree with a

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<v Speaker 1>friend without feeling like you have to excommunicate them out

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<v Speaker 1>of your life, which I When I hear of people

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<v Speaker 1>being removed from other people's lives because of politics, I

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<v Speaker 1>find that heartbreaking because there's nothing more hollow than politics

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<v Speaker 1>as a reason to remove someone from your life. It

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<v Speaker 1>really is in my view anyway. So I'll let you guys, Sandra,

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<v Speaker 1>You guys have some events coming up. I did put

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<v Speaker 1>a link to both websites on the blog today. So

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<v Speaker 1>can people join? How do they join your organization? Sandra,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll start with you, all right.

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<v Speaker 3>You can join Braver Angels simply by going to braver

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<v Speaker 3>Angels dot org. It's twelve dollars a year and we

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<v Speaker 3>offer free workshops, free debates, etc. Our local alliance is

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<v Speaker 3>the Colorado Southern Front Range Alliance, which is based out

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<v Speaker 3>of Douglas County, but it goes all the way down

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<v Speaker 3>to puebloam Beyond. We partnered with Reclaiming Civility to host

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<v Speaker 3>two more events. We'll have one on the third Saturday

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<v Speaker 3>of July. We'll have Skills for Disagreeing Better workshop in

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<v Speaker 3>the morning from nine to noon in Colorado Springs, and

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<v Speaker 3>then we'll have a debate where the stopic is Colorado's

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<v Speaker 3>gun laws unfairly in French on personal freedoms for two hours.

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<v Speaker 3>We are looking for speakers pro and con whether those

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<v Speaker 3>gun rights in French gun control laws in French. And

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<v Speaker 3>then on August sixteenth, we will have an apolitical Skills

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<v Speaker 3>workshop where we drill down on lap skills, which is listening, acknowledge,

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<v Speaker 3>pivot and perspective. And in the afternoon the debate is

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<v Speaker 3>the First Amendment correctly prioritizes freedom of religion over freedom

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<v Speaker 3>from religion. And again we are looking for speakers. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a community debate, so we start with four speakers and

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<v Speaker 3>then everybody can engage. So you can find that on

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<v Speaker 3>cos turnewurl dot com, slash Civil twenty five or on

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<v Speaker 3>Reclaiming Civility dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, and Laurie, how can people do in reclaiming

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<v Speaker 1>civility right, so just go to www.

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<v Speaker 4>Dot Reclaiming civility dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>You can also register for.

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<v Speaker 4>The Braver Angels events their sability on the space station.

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<v Speaker 4>The registration link is there on July tenth, or if

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<v Speaker 4>you're interested, if you have a small business or you're

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<v Speaker 4>a manager, or a nonprofit or any kind of group

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<v Speaker 4>that you would like us to come and give a workshop,

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<v Speaker 4>you can reach.

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<v Speaker 3>Out to us that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Laurie Leander and Sarah excuse me, Sandra Brown Red, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for making time and thank you for.

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<v Speaker 2>What you're doing. I wish you all the success in

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<v Speaker 2>the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And please let me know if I can support your

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<v Speaker 1>organizations in the future. By just letting people know what's

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<v Speaker 1>coming up, I think my audience would very much enjoy those.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you man.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you