Speaker 1: Hallucinogenic drugs, hypnosis, electric shocks to the brain, some of
Speaker 1: the methods used in secret CIA mind control experiments.
Speaker 2: There are many theories as to what the shining is
Speaker 2: really about, from the faking of the moon landing to
Speaker 2: Native American genocide and the Holocaust.
Speaker 3: Now, if he did fake the apology in that thing,
Speaker 3: then he probably has really deep connections into the intelligence world.
Speaker 3: Why are there these gigantic continuity airors in this movie?
Speaker 4: The occulted meaning has to be comprehensible. It's just hidden,
Speaker 4: usually in a very systematic way, so that it could
Speaker 4: be understood by someone coming along later on who knows
Speaker 4: what the real meaning is supposed to be.
Speaker 2: We believe that there's something even more sinister lurking beneath
Speaker 2: the surface of this Master Hotel.
Speaker 3: So Lookout Mountain Hotel looked a lot like the Overlook Hotel.
Speaker 5: You realize that there's no such thing as coincidive season like.
Speaker 2: That as Lookout Mountain studios ran by the Air Force
Speaker 2: and told the story of nuclear weapons testing by the
Speaker 2: United States of the.
Speaker 6: Army Navan Air Force.
Speaker 7: The Air Force was.
Speaker 8: Known to be the most.
Speaker 6: Excited, the most turned on by MK Ultra and its prospects.
Speaker 5: Reportedly, there were more films made at Lookout Mounted than
Speaker 5: at all the other film studios in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: We really don't know that these famous film directors were
Speaker 3: being recruited for what project or whatever was it?
Speaker 5: The mood Landing.
Speaker 2: The CIA's MK Ultra programs were admitted to the public
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five, five years before the release of
Speaker 2: The Shining.
Speaker 5: These experiments were done without the informed consent of the patients.
Speaker 6: Look at some UFO cases and the things that are
Speaker 6: reported tells me that MK ultra is likely being applied.
Speaker 9: In my MK ultra mind control experience, I was taken
Speaker 9: to various military, NASA and DARPA installations for sophisticated mind
Speaker 9: control programming.
Speaker 5: Woke Disney, Marilyn Monroe, James Stewart, Carry Grant, Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 5: Nobody really knows what they were doing.
Speaker 9: Up there, as well as high ranking military and Department
Speaker 9: of Defense personnel.
Speaker 3: But people don't realize is that many of the people
Speaker 3: that worked with Kubrick also worked with Kennedy. This is
Speaker 3: actually the smoking gun proving that Kubrick was working.
Speaker 7: With the government.
Speaker 5: These were all CIA sponsored experiments. I said I'm not
Speaker 5: gonna hurt you. I'm just gonna bash your brains. And
Speaker 5: I'm putting little symbolic critic clues and Easter eggs pertaining
Speaker 5: to the fact that they're still doing it.
Speaker 2: These clues include a hidden swastika in the background of
Speaker 2: the boardroom.
Speaker 9: What was the set up? What it was being told?
Speaker 9: And realized that it was a lie all along?
Speaker 5: But right there in the narrative, in the dialogue, they're
Speaker 5: telling you that this was a very real program coming
Speaker 5: out of those nice folks at the CIA.
Speaker 8: Here's Johnny, So, welcome back to Good Vibrations, and my
Speaker 8: guests today are the guys behind a documentary film which
Speaker 8: has been doing the rounds on Amazon Prime for a
Speaker 8: few days now.
Speaker 5: Some listeners or viewers may have seen it already. One
Speaker 5: of my guests I've spoken to before many many years ago,
Speaker 5: and the other one is the first time on Good Vibrations.
Speaker 5: So it's Jay Widner and Ryder Lee. Who are the
Speaker 5: individuals behind the documentary A clockwork Shining gents.
Speaker 7: Welcome, Hey, thanks for having us, cool, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2: Mark really appreciate her brother.
Speaker 5: No worries. So what are your official job titles on
Speaker 5: this documentary, one of you is executive producer and the
Speaker 5: other one is the main producer and director. Is that right?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 3: I wrote and produced and writer, directed and edited it.
Speaker 3: We have kind of the roles that we figured out
Speaker 3: when we did our last film, JFKX, and.
Speaker 7: It works out.
Speaker 3: He's a really good director, a really good editor, and
Speaker 3: I'm the kind of guy that likes to write in
Speaker 3: a quiet room and figure everything out before we start shooting.
Speaker 7: So it worked out really well.
Speaker 5: Sure, So did you reach out to Jay Ryder having
Speaker 5: seen is Kubrick's Odyssey? Is that the way this worked?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the way that it worked. I had watched
Speaker 2: a lot of Jay's films. He's been producing movies for
Speaker 2: a really long time, and I was bringing him on
Speaker 2: my show to do an interview, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: watch his content that he had done before. And I
Speaker 2: was just rewatching The Shining over and over and over
Speaker 2: again to prepare for this interview with Jay. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: is there anything that I'm going to be able to
Speaker 2: find in this movie that people have never seen before?
Speaker 2: And I'd found a few things, and I'm presenting this
Speaker 2: to Jay on our show together. He was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense. And then a few
Speaker 2: months later I hit him up and I was like, Jay,
Speaker 2: we need to make a documentary about this, because I
Speaker 2: don't think anyone has ever seen the things that I'm
Speaker 2: seeing in this movie in the theory that I have.
Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah, we should, and I was
Speaker 2: like cool. And then we actually decided to do another
Speaker 2: movie before this movie, which I'm really glad that we
Speaker 2: did because I was able to cut my teeth on
Speaker 2: that film, which is also up on Amazon Prime Free
Speaker 2: v jfk X, and that's kind of how it went.
Speaker 2: And I'm really happy that we did that first film
Speaker 2: before this one because this one is really a passion
Speaker 2: project and it's There's been several people that have watched
Speaker 2: this so far and they're like, they're kind of mind
Speaker 2: blown by how much information is in it. And Mark,
Speaker 2: you've seen it so far, what did you think of it?
Speaker 2: Did you like it? Well, you're in it.
Speaker 5: Right right, Yeah, it's amazing. It's I really love the
Speaker 5: final cut, And as you say, there's so much information
Speaker 5: in it, and what people are going to find interesting
Speaker 5: is that there's information that's never previously been presented. So
Speaker 5: I would say maybe you agree with me that Stanley
Speaker 5: Kubrick is the most analyzed film director in movie history,
Speaker 5: and I would say that of his films, The Shining
Speaker 5: is the most analyzed film. So you can go on
Speaker 5: YouTube and you could be there for hours just trawling
Speaker 5: through all these videos that people are uploaded with what
Speaker 5: they consider to be their decode of what's in The Shining,
Speaker 5: and it's just incredible that over four decades on, there's
Speaker 5: still information that's never been presented before which appears to
Speaker 5: be lurking beneath the surface narrative. So that's what your
Speaker 5: film is all about, and you believe that you've found
Speaker 5: a narrative that nobody else has commented on before. I
Speaker 5: loved your line in it Rider where you say The
Speaker 5: Shining is considered one of the greatest horror movies of
Speaker 5: all time, but is it really a horror movie? And
Speaker 5: I think that's the key to what you consider to
Speaker 5: be the decode that you've taken away from this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would like to get J's opinion on
Speaker 2: this as well, because I had one percent I think
Speaker 2: the video would agree with me in this statement and
Speaker 2: saying that if The Shining was released today in today's time,
Speaker 2: it would not be considered a horror film. It would
Speaker 2: be more of a psychological thriller because really nothing happens
Speaker 2: in this entire movie until the last thirty minutes of
Speaker 2: the movie.
Speaker 5: One person dies in the entire film.
Speaker 7: That's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking about that the other day.
Speaker 3: So Kubrick's got this a horror movie that he's making,
Speaker 3: and he realizes after reading the book that nobody dies
Speaker 3: in the book, and so he had to solve that problem.
Speaker 3: And I think he solved it by having an hour
Speaker 3: and being killed. But you think about it, Jack doesn't
Speaker 3: kill anybody in the book.
Speaker 7: They're Shining.
Speaker 5: It's weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's one of those movies that's kind of like,
Speaker 2: what is really going on here? And I think that's
Speaker 2: been the whole thing about this movie since the very beginning.
Speaker 2: People are just puzzled by all of the continuity errors
Speaker 2: that's in the movie, which we point out all of
Speaker 2: the ones that I know about within the movie at
Speaker 2: Clockwork Shining. There's several of them, and people have been,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of racking their brain, like why are
Speaker 2: there are so many continuity errors in this movie? Because
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick is a perfectionist, you know, he made sure
Speaker 2: that everything was right. And this movie has probably the
Speaker 2: most continuity errors out of any movie ever, and there's
Speaker 2: several of them. The sticker disappearing on Danny's door, the
Speaker 2: carpet changing in the hallway when Danny stands up before
Speaker 2: he goes in the room two thirty seven, the chair
Speaker 2: disappearing behind Jack, light switches that will just disappear in
Speaker 2: one shot and then later on they'll be there or
Speaker 2: vice versa. And one of the ones that I kind
Speaker 2: of forgot about, which is really interesting, is because the
Speaker 2: external shots of the hotel and the overlook hotel within
Speaker 2: the Shining where some of them were shot at Timberline
Speaker 2: Lodge in Oregon, and those first establishing shots of the hotel,
Speaker 2: there's you don't see a maze in the background. There's
Speaker 2: not a maze in behind the hotel, but then later
Speaker 2: on there is a maze. So it's like all these
Speaker 2: things are happening. And we don't really precisely say in
Speaker 2: this movie, this documentary that we made, why these continuity
Speaker 2: errors are there, but we kind of give you a
Speaker 2: reason throughout the movie that they're that you kind of
Speaker 2: have to put two and two together, and it's more
Speaker 2: like Stanley Kubrick is trying to see if he can
Speaker 2: get the audience to also question their reality as they're
Speaker 2: watching the movie, just as he's, just as Jack Torrents
Speaker 2: within the Shining is also starting to question his reality
Speaker 2: and slowly go into delusions. So that's kind of like
Speaker 2: a subtext thing that's not really stated in the movie,
Speaker 2: but something that the audience kind of has to figure
Speaker 2: out on their own.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had a long talk with Stanley's top assistant in
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, and we were at a conference together, and
Speaker 3: he wasn't too happy with me, but he was gracious
Speaker 3: enough to answer some of my questions, and he basically
Speaker 3: said to me that Stanley just got lazy and all
Speaker 3: those continuity AARs were just Stanley being lazy and going,
Speaker 3: come on, man, I mean really, and he really was
Speaker 3: saying that, and I couldn't believe it. He was also
Speaker 3: the one that told me that because Stanley had had
Speaker 3: him go look at all these hotels around America and
Speaker 3: take pictures and send them back to Stanley. And when
Speaker 3: he got to the Timberline Hotel, because he didn't know
Speaker 3: what he was looking for, only Stanley knew what he
Speaker 3: was looking for. When he got to the Timberline Hotel
Speaker 3: and sent the polaroids back. Stanley immediately called him up
Speaker 3: and said, that's it, You're done.
Speaker 7: Come home.
Speaker 3: So as soon as he saw the Timberline Hotel, he
Speaker 3: knew he had his hotel. And as we pointed out
Speaker 3: in the movie, the Timberline Hotel looks a lot like
Speaker 3: the Lookout Mountain Hotel that was there before the Lookout
Speaker 3: Mountain studios were put in in Laurel Canon.
Speaker 2: Right, this is another thing that's really interesting too, j
Speaker 2: Sorry sorry, Mark, and Stephen King's sequel to The Shining
Speaker 2: Doctor Sleep because the look Our Mountain Hotel burnt to
Speaker 2: the ground in the early nineties, and Stephen King's sequel
Speaker 2: to the book The Shining and also the sequel to
Speaker 2: the movie The Shining Doctor Sleep, the Overlook Hotel burns
Speaker 2: of the ground, something that we didn't have in our movie.
Speaker 2: That's kind of a new thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was the original ending of
Speaker 3: The Shining the book was the Overlook burns out.
Speaker 5: Right, So they got there with Doctor Sleep. This is
Speaker 5: part of the complexity of Stanley, so he will encode
Speaker 5: all these hidden layers to his movies, and then he
Speaker 5: puts them out there, and there's a surface narrative that
Speaker 5: the masses take away from it. They think, oh, the
Speaker 5: Shining is a movie about a guy that goes a
Speaker 5: bit crazy due to the solitude of this place, and
Speaker 5: he gets cabin fever and tries to kill his family.
Speaker 5: And Stanley knows there's so much more to it, and
Speaker 5: he's wondering who's going to decode all this stuff, if anyone,
Speaker 5: And actually he went to his grave without many of
Speaker 5: these decodes becoming public, So he never got the satisfaction
Speaker 5: of knowing that somebody got it, somebody spotted what he'd
Speaker 5: put in there, which I don't think many people would
Speaker 5: be happy doing that. They would want to know that
Speaker 5: people understood the genius of what they'd put into their narrative.
Speaker 3: Well, the closest thing I ever got to channeling was
Speaker 3: i'd just gotten back from France in nineteen ninety nine
Speaker 3: doing research for the book I was writing, and because
Speaker 3: I was so busy in France, I didn't know that
Speaker 3: Stanley had die. This was in March of nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 3: and so when I got back to America, I saw
Speaker 3: that he of course he was one of my heroes,
Speaker 3: and I was crestfallen and I it was a Saturday
Speaker 3: after I got back, and I was sitting on my
Speaker 3: couch at a snowstorm going and my wife came out
Speaker 3: and she said, what are you doing? And I immediately
Speaker 3: began channeling the fact that two thousand and one was
Speaker 3: about Alchemedy actually.
Speaker 7: The moon landing. I suddenly figured it all out.
Speaker 3: Within five days of Stanley's death, I had my first
Speaker 3: two Kubrick's Odyssey movies basically channeled to me. I swear
Speaker 3: to the god to this day, I think Cubrick's spirit
Speaker 3: was running around the world trying to find somebody who
Speaker 3: understood both alchemy and filmmaking so he could tell them
Speaker 3: about what he was really putting.
Speaker 7: In his movies.
Speaker 3: And ever since then, I've been on this quest for
Speaker 3: twenty five years now, trying to figure out all of
Speaker 3: Kubrick's movies. But I really do believe that we figured
Speaker 3: out what the Shining is really about. And Curate didn't
Speaker 3: believe in the supernatural. He was a complete atheist. He
Speaker 3: didn't believe in ghosts or anything, so it had to
Speaker 3: have been kind of hard for him to make a
Speaker 3: movie about ghosts, and I think he just chucked it
Speaker 3: and so forget it.
Speaker 7: Where'd you kind of make a movie?
Speaker 3: I have so many layers in it that it'll take
Speaker 3: one hundred years to figure out.
Speaker 5: Well, this is the thing I wanted to ask about.
Speaker 5: So we'll get into what you propose with the work
Speaker 5: shining shortly. But there are many other decodes that people
Speaker 5: could take away from this film. These were discussed in
Speaker 5: Room two three seven. Jay, you were a part of
Speaker 5: that documentary two and you advanced the idea that Stanley
Speaker 5: was basically confessing to having faked the moon landings. There
Speaker 5: was a theory in there that it was about the
Speaker 5: genocide of the Native Americans. So now that you believe
Speaker 5: you found this new meaning to it, do you think
Speaker 5: all those other interpretations are still there as well? So
Speaker 5: there's multiple layers to it. It's not just one hidden meaning.
Speaker 5: There are many that will put into this.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, In fact, I think, as I told Rodney Asher
Speaker 3: the Maker three Room two thirty seven, I think all
Speaker 3: of those theories you presented are correct. I believe it
Speaker 3: is about the Holocaust. I do believe it is about
Speaker 3: the tilling of the Native Americans. I believe it is
Speaker 3: about the moon landing, and it's also and if you
Speaker 3: think about that, all those things kind of work together.
Speaker 3: So it's about America. The overlook is America. He even
Speaker 3: says that one time Shelley Duval says, let's go make
Speaker 3: America clean again, right, joking to Danny as they're going
Speaker 3: to the maze. So I think it's all those and
Speaker 3: I think that they all work into our theory on
Speaker 3: the clockwork shining. I think that they all work together.
Speaker 3: I think Kubrick was trying to tell us many things.
Speaker 3: And of course, if it's the moon landing, then that's
Speaker 3: Operation paper Clip. If it's Operation paper Clip, then that's
Speaker 3: the Holocaust, So naturally he would want to get that in.
Speaker 3: And if it's also about the conquering the world, then
Speaker 3: yesterday that Americans are going to come in and be
Speaker 3: part of it. As he said, this is native American
Speaker 3: barrier ill ground in the movie. And so it's all
Speaker 3: of those things, but mostly it's about the Young k
Speaker 3: Ultra program, right.
Speaker 5: And you say in the film that Stanley was given
Speaker 5: this film to make by Warner Brothers. So they said,
Speaker 5: here's the Stephen King book. We want you to make
Speaker 5: a movie, and you also observe that Stanley was doing
Speaker 5: rewrites through the film, through the filming, the making of
Speaker 5: the film, it's like he was getting bored with the
Speaker 5: official narrative and thinking of what he could put into
Speaker 5: it to spice it up a bit and have a
Speaker 5: bit of fun and put all these hidden elements in.
Speaker 5: So that seemed to have been an ongoing process through
Speaker 5: the production.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's an interview with Dianne Johnson, the screenwriter with Stanley
Speaker 3: on The Shining and she expresses her a great disappointment
Speaker 3: that Stanley cut a crucial scene out of the movie,
Speaker 3: and that's a scene where apparently Jack, which is from
Speaker 3: the book where Jack finds a scrap book down in
Speaker 3: the basement of the Overlook, and the scrap book in
Speaker 3: the book was all these mob ties and crimes and
Speaker 3: everything that we're in the scrap book, and it seem
Speaker 3: strange that he would cut that out since it's such
Speaker 3: a crucial part of the movie. But if he's really
Speaker 3: trying to tell you about the MK Ultra programs, then yeah,
Speaker 3: he's gonna toss it.
Speaker 2: He doesn't care, right, And there's evidence of that with
Speaker 2: the interaction between Grady and Jack in the bathroom after
Speaker 2: Grady has spilled the alcohol on Jack, the dialogue between them,
Speaker 2: because Jack is basically like, haven't I seen you somewhere before?
Speaker 2: But we don't see him seeing any pictures of Grady
Speaker 2: in the hotel. He's not on any of the walls
Speaker 2: and pictures in the hotel, So it makes sense that
Speaker 2: that scene was there where he finds the scrap book.
Speaker 2: He sees that, you know, the newspaper articles of Grady
Speaker 2: killing his two daughters and his wife previously at the hotel,
Speaker 2: and the nesting was just cut out, but there's still
Speaker 2: remnants of that between the conversation of Jack and Grady
Speaker 2: in the bathroom.
Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, right, just give us an overview then, of
Speaker 5: what you feel is the main idea that's being communicated
Speaker 5: in the shining beneath the surface narrative.
Speaker 2: Well, there are several things that I found that nobody
Speaker 2: else has ever seen. There's a when before Grady spills
Speaker 2: alcohol and Jack in the gold room, there's a lady
Speaker 2: that walks past that has a handprint on her ass. Now,
Speaker 2: some people can say that this handprint is somehow a
Speaker 2: part of the dress, but either way, it's still a
Speaker 2: handprint on her ass. Regardless if it's a part of
Speaker 2: the dress or if it's an actual real handprint, it's
Speaker 2: still conveying the same thing. And then in the Gold Room,
Speaker 2: also when Allman is giving a tour to Wendy and Jack,
Speaker 2: there's a swastika that's in the background of the Gold
Speaker 2: Room into the wall. And I'm the first person to
Speaker 2: ever have seen that, And the only reason that I
Speaker 2: was able to see it is because I've seen The
Speaker 2: Shining on the big screen. One of the theaters near
Speaker 2: me last year during Halloween was showing the Shining doing
Speaker 2: a reshowing of the Shining, and I went and seen
Speaker 2: it on the big screen and I was like, holy shit.
Speaker 2: I immediately called Jay after that. I was like, how's
Speaker 2: that swastika in the background of the Gold Room? Which
Speaker 2: really ties in with you know, Project paper Clip this
Speaker 2: and what other people have seen that have pointed out.
Speaker 2: At the end of the movie, when the picture on
Speaker 2: the wall fades to the far away picture faced to
Speaker 2: a close up picture of Jack for a split second,
Speaker 2: you can see a Hitler mustache on Jack's face. That's
Speaker 2: not something that we've seen, that's something that other people
Speaker 2: have pointed out. Through in the movie, but it all
Speaker 2: ties together, and then you have the first time that
Speaker 2: we meet Wendy and Danny in the movie, Wendy is
Speaker 2: reading the book by J. D. Salinger, Catcher in the Rye,
Speaker 2: which I don't think very many people have pointed out,
Speaker 2: and many have theorized and put together that Catcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye is a MK Ultramanchurian candidate style trigger for assassins.
Speaker 2: And what does Jack do throughout the entire movie. He
Speaker 2: is trying to kill his family. And then you have
Speaker 2: the psychic driving aspect as well. You know, Jack is
Speaker 2: supposedly writing this book for you know, and Wendy comes
Speaker 2: in and sees that he's not really writing a book.
Speaker 2: He's writing the same sentence over and over and over.
Speaker 2: And then you have the same the real life example
Speaker 2: of that with sir Han Sirhan which was said to
Speaker 2: have assassinated RFK in nineteen sixty eight. So and so
Speaker 2: Jack is doing his own interpretation of psychic drive within
Speaker 2: the movie as well. There's many things with Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 2: that tie over into real life, like real life is
Speaker 2: mimicking art, or art is mimicking real life. Like we
Speaker 2: talk about Sue Lyon in the movie which Lolita was
Speaker 2: basically about pedophilia, and that was actually happening to the
Speaker 2: real life actress by Stanley Kubrick's producer was essentially raping her,
Speaker 2: which is the lead actress. She was thirteen years old
Speaker 2: at the time he was in his thirties. Then you
Speaker 2: have like Shelley Duvall, it's the same thing. And then
Speaker 2: with a clockwork orange, even in the UK and in
Speaker 2: some other countries, like crime was getting really out of hand,
Speaker 2: there was murders that was attributed to people watching a
Speaker 2: clockwork Orange, which then it was banned. So there's so
Speaker 2: many things with Stanley Kubrick that tie over into real
Speaker 2: life scenarios that is really mind blowing to me. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's either reality imitating art or art imitating reality.
Speaker 3: Well, the writer Robert Temple is my good friend. He
Speaker 3: was hanging out with Stanley on the set of two
Speaker 3: thousand and one Space honestly when he was a young man,
Speaker 3: and he told me that he went over to Stanley's
Speaker 3: house and Stanley had this big, huge library and he
Speaker 3: said he was obsessed with Nazi memorabilia. Who's all over
Speaker 3: his whole place who collecting it. He was reading Nazi
Speaker 3: scientific papers. He told his screenwriter, who wrote the screenplay
Speaker 3: with him on Eyes White Shut. He wrote a book
Speaker 3: called Eyes White Open about his time with Stanley, and
Speaker 3: he said Stanley would look at him and he was Jewish,
Speaker 3: by the way, and so was Stanley, and Stanley would
Speaker 3: look at him and say, Hitler never said one thing
Speaker 3: that wasn't true, right, And it caused a big scandal
Speaker 3: believing when this book came out, because he's certainly saying
Speaker 3: that Stanley was like favor of the Nazis. So I
Speaker 3: have two sources as say that Stanley was obsessed with
Speaker 3: the Germans. And then when Ryder found the swastika on
Speaker 3: the wall in the Gold Room, I was like, Yeap,
Speaker 3: doesn't surprise.
Speaker 7: Me one bit, right.
Speaker 5: So we're talking about mk ultra coming out of those
Speaker 5: nice folks at the CIA, and a big part of
Speaker 5: what they were doing in those experiments involved LSD and
Speaker 5: that's a big part of the narrative of the Shining,
Speaker 5: according to how you've decoded it, and it's the key
Speaker 5: to so much. So Ryder, you've made the comment that
Speaker 5: there are no ghosts in this film. People think it's
Speaker 5: a horror movie, but there are no ghosts, and in
Speaker 5: your view, the characters of Lloyd the barman and Grady,
Speaker 5: the guy that cleans Jack up in the bathroom who's
Speaker 5: supposed to be the reincarnation of the original caretaker, according
Speaker 5: to the surface narrative, aren't actually ghosts. They're characters that
Speaker 5: have been planted in the hotel as part of the
Speaker 5: experimentation that's being conducted on Jack. Right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, have you seen the movie Shutter Island with Leonardo DiCaprio,
Speaker 2: where they basically it's about this detective that's going to
Speaker 2: the psychiatric hospital to investigate a murder. And at the
Speaker 2: end of the movie spoiler alert for Shutter Island. I'm
Speaker 2: sure people have already seen it. If you haven't seen,
Speaker 2: it's a fantastic movie. But at the end, it turns
Speaker 2: out that all these people are like LARPing. They're LARPing
Speaker 2: this whole scenario for Leonardo DiCaprio's character, and that's what
Speaker 2: we believe is going on within the shining. All the
Speaker 2: people that are perceived to be ghost are really actors
Speaker 2: playing a role within the movie to try and convince
Speaker 2: Jack to kill his family. It's an experiment That's pretty
Speaker 2: much what Allman tells Jack from the very beginning of
Speaker 2: the movie, between the dialogue with Bill Watson and uh
Speaker 2: Almen and Jack in the beginning. And that's one of
Speaker 2: the things that people, you know, think that is really
Speaker 2: boring about the movie because it's just ten minutes of
Speaker 2: the just like straight dialogue of them talking. But almend
Speaker 2: reveals the entire plot of the movie to Jack in
Speaker 2: that set down with him. It's so interesting, and I
Speaker 2: don't think very many people actually, you know, look at
Speaker 2: that and analyze that part. But pretty much Almond is like, hey,
Speaker 2: this isn't a physically demanding job. This is this is
Speaker 2: a psychological job. And then later on, when Wendy has
Speaker 2: confronted Jack after he's getting his psychic driving, he becomes
Speaker 2: triggered and he decides to do you know, violence against
Speaker 2: his uh against Windy and his family. And in that
Speaker 2: dialogue between him and Wendy there he's talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: how do you you know my responsibilities to my employers,
Speaker 2: Like you have any idea what a contract is, you know,
Speaker 2: So it's like it's almost like he knows that he's
Speaker 2: involved in some sort of psychological operation up at the
Speaker 2: overlook and he's, uh, he's trying to convey that to
Speaker 2: Wendy and Danny, but they don't really understand exactly what's
Speaker 2: going on. And then you have Lloyd the bartender as well,
Speaker 2: which you talk about in the movie Mark with Frank
Speaker 2: Olsen and Sydney Gottlieb spiking the drink of Frank Olsen
Speaker 2: and then him later later, you know, committing suicide by
Speaker 2: jumping out of what story eleventh story or twelve story
Speaker 2: or thirteen story or something like that in a hotel room.
Speaker 2: And the CIA has been known to spike, you know,
Speaker 2: alcoholic drinks or any kind of drinks with some sort
Speaker 2: of hallucinogenic substance. And it's one thing to be to
Speaker 2: knowingly take some kind of hallucinogenic because then you're going
Speaker 2: to expect to feel the effects of that hallucinogenic. You're
Speaker 2: gonna expect to feel that mind within you. But when
Speaker 2: you're unknowingly dosed with some sort of hallucinogeny, you're gonna
Speaker 2: think that you're out of your mind and that you're crazy.
Speaker 2: And the first thing that Jack Jack doesn't experience anything
Speaker 2: strange until he takes that first alcoholic drink from Lloyd
Speaker 2: the bartender. When Wendy walks into the gold room, it
Speaker 2: was like Danny was attacked by a lady in one
Speaker 2: of the empty rooms upstairs, and then he goes up
Speaker 2: there and then he sees the lady, the very attractive
Speaker 2: lady turned into an elderly woman. And room two thirty
Speaker 2: seven is very psychedelic. It's got this uh, it's unlike
Speaker 2: anything else that we see within the shining, any of
Speaker 2: the exterior things. Things are purple, they're very vibrant. It's
Speaker 2: almost like a psychedelic trip. As soon as Jack walks
Speaker 2: in there, then he sees the old lady, the attractive
Speaker 2: lady turns into an old woman. And then later whenever
Speaker 2: he goes up into the room to me back up
Speaker 2: with Wendy, Wendy asked him, did you see anything in
Speaker 2: room two thirty seven. He said, no, I didn't see
Speaker 2: a goddamn thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's on acid, that's what it is. And
Speaker 3: Ryder did a great cut to the very first shot
Speaker 3: or when he enters room two thirty seven. You get
Speaker 3: the vibrant purple and greens that are everywhere, and.
Speaker 7: It feels like, you know, you're on acid.
Speaker 5: So we're saying that Lloyd and Grady are not ghosts,
Speaker 5: they're real people. What about the twins that Danny experiences,
Speaker 5: the twin girls and the old hag in the in
Speaker 5: room to two thirty seven, you've said, is the actual
Speaker 5: woman who presumably is real, who in Jack's altered state,
Speaker 5: turns into this hideous old woman. And then at the
Speaker 5: end of the movie you've got Wendy experiencing skeletons and
Speaker 5: this guy with a cut in his head and stuff.
Speaker 5: So are they straight hallucinations in your view?
Speaker 3: No, they're actors. They're all actors. Everybody's an actor.
Speaker 5: Including the girls that are all chopped up in the
Speaker 5: hallway there.
Speaker 3: Uh, well, that could be u set up of some kind,
Speaker 3: you know, a stage set up of some kind. But
Speaker 3: once you understand that everybody's an actor, it becomes really
Speaker 3: easy to understand. And that's exactly what Kubrick would do.
Speaker 3: And so the old what we're saying is that the
Speaker 3: overlook purpose is to do these MK ultra operations in
Speaker 3: the winter, and that they bring up a group of people.
Speaker 3: They hide out in the rooms and they come out
Speaker 3: when they're supposed to. They're probably they're being watched and
Speaker 3: everything and this is all by the way given away
Speaker 3: in the ending of the Shining that Kubrick cut out.
Speaker 7: In the ending of the Shining, Wendy is in her.
Speaker 3: Bed and ohmen, the hotel manager comes in to see her.
Speaker 3: It tells her there's no evidence at the hotel for
Speaker 3: anything you're saying, right, why because they cleaned it up.
Speaker 3: They cleaned up the evidence. So that's what you do
Speaker 3: after your mkolture operation. And then he says, why don't
Speaker 3: you and Danny come stay at my house on the beach.
Speaker 7: In out La, right? And why would he do that?
Speaker 3: And the answer is because you want to keep an
Speaker 3: eye on your subjects for a couple of months after
Speaker 3: the experimentation to see what happens with him, right the
Speaker 3: aftermath of the experiment. And I believe that he cut
Speaker 3: that ending out because he realized it was given the
Speaker 3: whole ball of axe.
Speaker 7: Away and he didn't want to do that, right yea.
Speaker 7: And he throws the ball, the tennis ball to Danny.
Speaker 3: How would he know that Danny had an interaction with
Speaker 3: the tennis ball in the hallway in front of Room
Speaker 3: thirty seven. He wouldn't he know way that he would
Speaker 3: know that? So what is he doing giving him the ball? Well,
Speaker 3: he's obviously he was watching Danny.
Speaker 5: She wish we could see that footage.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean two. That's one of the most
Speaker 2: infamous pieces of walls ever. Many people have claimed to
Speaker 2: have had the director of Toy Story as well. People
Speaker 2: have said that he has the lost footage. But I
Speaker 2: think one of the things within the movie that kind
Speaker 2: of explains what's going on with Danny is the when
Speaker 2: Walter Bosley, the AFOSI Special Agent of the Air Force,
Speaker 2: talks about, you know this LSD aerosol that has been
Speaker 2: known to be sprayed on entire groups of unsuspecting people.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that the CIA had like a party
Speaker 2: at one point where they were just spraying LSD aerosol
Speaker 2: into the house of the apartment of this where all
Speaker 2: these people were having a party, and these people would
Speaker 2: just kind of go out of their minds. So it's
Speaker 2: kind of implied throughout a movie that is possible that
Speaker 2: Room two thirty seven is just getting hit with some
Speaker 2: sort of LSD aerosol, and maybe when Danny goes into
Speaker 2: Room two thirty seven, he gets hit with that LSD
Speaker 2: aerosol and that's how he experiences the twins in the hallway,
Speaker 2: and that might be an explanation for that. But Danny
Speaker 2: is also very you know, psychic, He's a psychic boy
Speaker 2: as well. And then when you think.
Speaker 7: Of like the.
Speaker 2: You know, hollerin and you know them having this psychic
Speaker 2: connection to each other and the trauma that they've really faced,
Speaker 2: because you bring it up in the documentary, Mark, the
Speaker 2: trauma is the key to unlocking these abilities and Windy.
Speaker 2: Throughout the movie. That's how Windy gets to see some
Speaker 2: of the things that are happening at the overlook is
Speaker 2: due to the trauma and the mind fracturing from the
Speaker 2: MK ultra programs that she's being suscepted to throughout the movie,
Speaker 2: because it's even implied in the storage room when Jack
Speaker 2: is in there between the conversation that he's having with Grady,
Speaker 2: which great, he is outside of the door and he's
Speaker 2: you know, talking to Jack, He's like, you know, Wendy
Speaker 2: is much more you know, stronger mentally than we had suspected.
Speaker 2: So how do we basically, how do we break her
Speaker 2: down to you know, get her on this level to
Speaker 2: where her mind can be completely taken over by these experiments?
Speaker 5: Right, you mentioned the character Bill Watson earlier. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 5: you mentioned the character Bill Watson who's in the interview
Speaker 5: with Almon and Jack when he's first arriving at the hotel.
Speaker 5: And there's no ostensible reason for this character to be
Speaker 5: in the film, So it's almost as if they paid
Speaker 5: an actor to do nothing, because he says virtually nothing.
Speaker 5: But he's taken a very keen interesting Jack. He's kind
Speaker 5: of looking him up and down in the interview. And
Speaker 5: I don't think this made the final cut of your film,
Speaker 5: but I think your view is that he's a man
Speaker 5: from the CIA and he's there to assess Jack's suitability
Speaker 5: for this experiment. That's what's implied there.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's exactly right, and he's he's probably the people
Speaker 3: in from Denver, one of the people from Denver that
Speaker 3: they keep referring to, which is interesting because a lot
Speaker 3: of people don't realize that the CIA has always had
Speaker 3: a operation command center in Denver. Yes, they're in Langley, Virginia,
Speaker 3: but they also have one in Denver and it's been there.
Speaker 3: It's actually becoming their main office. They're moving from Langley
Speaker 3: to Denver right now. They've been doing it for like
Speaker 3: five years, so somehow you reck knew all.
Speaker 5: This creple in Denver as well.
Speaker 7: Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: Yes, I originally wanted to put some things in there
Speaker 2: about Bill Watson and his likeness to Sidney Gauntlieb, because
Speaker 2: they look very similar. But the issue that I kind
Speaker 2: of ran into was that there's very few photos of
Speaker 2: Sidney Gauntlieb. Hardly find any of him, like one or
Speaker 2: two the two that I have in there. Whenever you're
Speaker 2: talking about Frank Olsen Mark is one of the only
Speaker 2: two that you can really find. There's very little footage
Speaker 2: of him. The only footage that I could find of
Speaker 2: him was after he was playing tennis or something outside
Speaker 2: and then he was trying to get back into the
Speaker 2: building and he was kind of covering his head. So
Speaker 2: but yes, we absolutely believe that Bill Watson because he
Speaker 2: literally says one or two things like the entire movie
Speaker 2: didn't really make any sense for him to even be there,
Speaker 2: so it's like he's like an observer and it's highly
Speaker 2: possible that he was just there at the hotel the
Speaker 2: entire time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actor is actually one of Kubrick's best friends, so
Speaker 3: he grew up with it, so.
Speaker 5: He got an easy job on that movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he show he hired. He hired his friends a lot,
Speaker 3: the Little the Little Short Gladiator and in Spartacus that
Speaker 3: was another friend he grew up with, so he was
Speaker 3: always hiring his friends for little roles.
Speaker 5: What's your view on why the name of Grady changes,
Speaker 5: because early on Allman refers to him as Charles Grady,
Speaker 5: and when he introduces himself to Jack in the bathroom,
Speaker 5: he says he's Delbert Grady. So what do you think
Speaker 5: the first name changed.
Speaker 3: Hmmm, that's a really good question, because he did that
Speaker 3: also in a Clockwork Orange, Alex as a name changed.
Speaker 7: His last name changes in the movie.
Speaker 3: It was originally the author of the of the book
Speaker 3: with Anthony Burry, it was it was his name is
Speaker 3: Alec Burgess, and then it's Alex something else when he's
Speaker 3: in prison. So but in both movies characters' names change,
Speaker 3: and it's.
Speaker 7: Really that's kind of a mystery. I'm not sure, because again.
Speaker 3: Stanley is such an attention to detail that you would
Speaker 3: think there's no way that he could make this mistake.
Speaker 3: So it's just weird that the two mind Control movies
Speaker 3: that he may both have this weird name change, or
Speaker 3: one of the main characters.
Speaker 5: Right, So all these things that researchers have found in
Speaker 5: The Shining, such as your interpretation there, and what many
Speaker 5: other people have observed over the years, presumably Stanley's paymasters,
Speaker 5: the elites would have spotted some of this themselves, because
Speaker 5: you know, these guys are smart and they know stuff
Speaker 5: that regular folk don't. So I wonder if they would
Speaker 5: have been aware of some of these symbolic metaphorical elements
Speaker 5: in this film. But maybe back in nineteen eighty they thought, oh,
Speaker 5: it doesn't matter. People are too dumb, they're too profane,
Speaker 5: too ignorant to know what this stuff means. But they
Speaker 5: hadn't factored in the advent of the Internet and the
Speaker 5: availability to do research through it. So I wonder how
Speaker 5: much stuff they then self spoted but just let slide.
Speaker 7: I think a lot of it they let it slide.
Speaker 3: I think he was given away the game and both
Speaker 3: the clockwork Orange, the Shining full metal jacket, and even
Speaker 3: two thousand and one in Doctor Strangelove.
Speaker 7: So he was always playing fast and loose with the elite.
Speaker 3: Right, taking it all the way to the edge and
Speaker 3: then pulling back before he went all the way, and
Speaker 3: he knew what he was doing. He was probably in
Speaker 3: some ways, how do I say this correctly? To me,
Speaker 3: every movie after Barry Lyndon is some kind of experiment,
Speaker 3: a psychological experiment, and he's using his ability to make
Speaker 3: films to make to do psychological experiments on the audience.
Speaker 7: And I think that he may have.
Speaker 3: Been literally working for the man maybe after Barry Linden,
Speaker 3: that literally they came in and said, you're too valuable
Speaker 3: to just make Hollywood movies. We've got all these experiments
Speaker 3: we want to try, we want you to do it.
Speaker 7: And they just feel like experiments.
Speaker 3: So Shining feels like experiment, eyes wide shut feels like
Speaker 3: an experiment, full metal jacket, this feel there's not regular
Speaker 3: movies at all, And it's just a strangeness about him
Speaker 3: that I cannot describe. But I really do believe that
Speaker 3: he was doing some kind of psychological experiment just because
Speaker 3: he was bored. I believe that Stanley Kubrick got bored
Speaker 3: after Clockwork Orange.
Speaker 7: That's my theory. He got bored.
Speaker 3: He wanted to make a costume drama period piece, and
Speaker 3: he did and he lost his ass on it. He
Speaker 3: lost like ten million dollars on Barry Linden. And so
Speaker 3: then he was at his wits ends what to do,
Speaker 3: and he was studying the MK Ultra things that had
Speaker 3: been announced in nineteen seventy five. And I believe that
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers tried to repeat the success they had with
Speaker 3: The Exorcist by giving a horror novel to type A
Speaker 3: director William Friedkin, and so they gave and by the way,
Speaker 3: Cubrick got offered the Extorcist too, and he turned it
Speaker 3: down and did Barry Lindon instead. And I believe that
Speaker 3: he said, they kind of said nap after the after
Speaker 3: the debacle of Barry Lindon.
Speaker 7: I think it's time for you to do this movie.
Speaker 7: We want an A list.
Speaker 3: Director working with the top horror novel and you're the
Speaker 3: guy who's going to do it. And Kuber's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll do it, and he did it. And then as
Speaker 3: we show in the movie, he gave one script to
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers and said this is what we're doing, and
Speaker 3: then he completely rewrote the script while he was shooting,
Speaker 3: which nobody ever does.
Speaker 2: By the way, never do that.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you have to be you want your
Speaker 3: script locked down solid before you even shoot one frame.
Speaker 7: And but not Cubrick.
Speaker 3: Now he's going to keep rewriting and rewriting and rewriting,
Speaker 3: and nobody knows what's going on. He's changed the story
Speaker 3: so much Warner Brothers came on the set to observe
Speaker 3: what was going on. The guys that I give up.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what's going on here? Right, and
Speaker 3: so over and over and over. You know, Kubrick was
Speaker 3: just fooling him. And at the very end of the
Speaker 3: movie Life in Pictures The Story of Stanley Kubrier, a
Speaker 3: documentary about Stanley, they're interviewing Christiana Kuberic, his wife, and
Speaker 3: she said, uh, what's your He said, what's your fondest
Speaker 3: memory Stanley? And she said, uh, he will, he will
Speaker 3: look he'll he'll be involved in something and then he'll
Speaker 3: look at me and go still fooling them, right, And
Speaker 3: that was one of his main lines that he would
Speaker 3: say to his wife, still fooling them.
Speaker 7: So, you know, he he was a trickster kind of
Speaker 7: in a way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, do you feel he went too far? Ultimately with
Speaker 5: eyes wide shut? And they often.
Speaker 7: Okay, so uh.
Speaker 3: In the late two thousand and one, I wrote my
Speaker 3: essay on alchemical kubric about two thousand and one being
Speaker 3: really a movie about alchemy in the four Stages of Alchemy,
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 7: Got a phone call.
Speaker 3: I first I got an email and said here, my
Speaker 3: phone number wouldn't tell me who he was. I worked
Speaker 3: with Stanley and it wasn't Leon Vitale. Leon Vitale is
Speaker 3: the guy that went searching for the hotels. This is
Speaker 3: another guy American. And I got on the phone with
Speaker 3: him for like two hours, and he said that Warner
Speaker 3: Brothers had come to London to screen Eyes Wide Shot.
Speaker 3: Kubrick and him this guy were in the lobby.
Speaker 7: While they were watching it.
Speaker 3: Kubrick had taken back up cigarette smoking and he was
Speaker 3: chain smoking, walking back and forth.
Speaker 7: And they're gonna kill me.
Speaker 3: They're like, I hate this film, right, and really nervous
Speaker 3: and everything.
Speaker 7: And then a guy came out. The movie ended, and
Speaker 7: the guy said.
Speaker 3: The guy came out and says, standing, come on in,
Speaker 3: and so Stanley went in and the guy could. The
Speaker 3: guy that was there telling me this didn't get to
Speaker 3: go in, but.
Speaker 7: He heard this huge argument going.
Speaker 3: On with everybody yelling and screaming and Kubrick yelling and screaming.
Speaker 3: And then Kubrick was dead five days later. I don't
Speaker 3: know what happened. I know that you know, he was
Speaker 3: seventy two years old and he was cigarette smoking, so
Speaker 3: that could be. But the thing is is that his assistant,
Speaker 3: his chauffeur, wrote a book about Stanley Kubrick, and he
Speaker 3: said that only he and Stanley had keys to Stanley's
Speaker 3: inner den where he did all of his work.
Speaker 7: And he said when he came back from the funeral,
Speaker 7: he walked.
Speaker 3: Into the Stanley's den and there was like twenty guys
Speaker 3: rifling through Stanley's all of his books and all of his.
Speaker 7: Films and everything.
Speaker 3: They took filmed books, files unloaded like almost like Tesla
Speaker 3: when he died, and they filled a truck up with it.
Speaker 3: They never told this guy who they were and what
Speaker 3: they were doing there. And he said, I was the
Speaker 3: only guy that had a key beside Stanley.
Speaker 7: So how do they even get in?
Speaker 3: And of course I've been told by CIA that we
Speaker 3: could break into any place, you'll never know it. So
Speaker 3: I assumed that they were CIA. And why was the
Speaker 3: CIA be interested in Stanley Kubrick's work after he died,
Speaker 3: And maybe because he was doing other things for them
Speaker 3: that you know, you're not supposed to know about. I mean,
Speaker 3: would you really let a director of the statue of
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 7: Go to waste if you could use him.
Speaker 3: It would seem to me if you'd used him for
Speaker 3: the moon Landing, you're probably gonna use him for other
Speaker 3: things too.
Speaker 5: And apparently there was twenty odd minutes of footage from
Speaker 5: Eyes Wide Shut which never made the final cut. So again,
Speaker 5: nobody's ever going to see that, and we can only
Speaker 5: ever imagine what was in it.
Speaker 3: I was the leader of the lobby to get Warner
Speaker 3: Brothers to release that footage. I had over one hundred
Speaker 3: thousand signatures from Brian to Palm signed it. Quentin Tarantino
Speaker 3: signed it. All these big weeks were signing this petition
Speaker 3: to release the twenty minutes that's been taken out, and
Speaker 3: Water Brothers basically said, no, we're not going to do it,
Speaker 3: So they'll never do it.
Speaker 7: You'll never see it.
Speaker 3: And I believe what was cut out of Eyes White
Speaker 3: Shot was Nicole Kidman going through an MK ultra operation
Speaker 3: and becoming one of their sex kittens.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick were really nice to Stanley Kubrick in this movie.
Speaker 2: I could have put a lot of things in there
Speaker 2: that would not have shown him in the best light.
Speaker 2: But we also know that Kubrick was for sure working
Speaker 2: with the government. We show a document in the movie
Speaker 2: where you know, Kubrick is being sought after by the
Speaker 2: government for some unknown project where you know, Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 2: and four others are being looked at, and Stanley Kubrick is,
Speaker 2: you know, being looked at his most promising for this
Speaker 2: unknown project. And then also at the original credits for
Speaker 2: two thousand and one of Space Odyssey, he thinked many
Speaker 2: military organizations, the Air Force, Lingley, you know, all of
Speaker 2: these intelligence communities, and then later on those were cut out.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty safe to say that Qubreaic, in one
Speaker 2: form or another did have contracts with the government. And
Speaker 2: we also show documents in the movie showing the CIA
Speaker 2: and the military's infiltration into film production like the Transformers
Speaker 2: movie Tomorrow Never Dies and things like that. So they
Speaker 2: have been involved, and it stands the reason that you know,
Speaker 2: Cubic kind of put them in there originally in two
Speaker 2: thousand and one of Space Odyssey, and then someone seen it.
Speaker 2: It was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you
Speaker 2: can't be put in our organization, our military organization, and
Speaker 2: our intelligence community organization, names and the credits of your movie.
Speaker 2: He got to get those things out of there, so
Speaker 2: we cut them out.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's also interesting that the only that when Clockwork Orange
Speaker 3: came out, there was all this gang violence that was
Speaker 3: going on in England and America. And I actually saw
Speaker 3: a bunch of drugs in New York City walking down
Speaker 3: the street one day, dresses exactly like Alex and his drugs.
Speaker 3: And Kubrick pulled a clockwork Orange from England. And first off,
Speaker 3: a director doesn't have that power. A director can't pull
Speaker 3: a film. It's impossible. He's the studio.
Speaker 7: Owns a film.
Speaker 3: He doesn't own the film, And why would the studio
Speaker 3: pull the film from the place where the action is
Speaker 3: all taking place.
Speaker 7: In the film.
Speaker 3: And so my theory is is that there that Stanley
Speaker 3: Kubrick made a clockwork Orange knowing that it was going
Speaker 3: to create imitation crimes, and he was so afraid that
Speaker 3: how powerful the film was because there were a lot
Speaker 3: of incidences at the time, that he pulled the film
Speaker 3: in England so that he would be safe, well he.
Speaker 5: Would look like a good guy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but again, I don't know.
Speaker 3: You know there was something about that film because I
Speaker 3: went to go see Clockwork Orange. I was a baby
Speaker 3: seventeen at the time, and I went to see it
Speaker 3: with a few of my high school friends. And we
Speaker 3: were all just straight students, and you know, we like movies,
Speaker 3: but we weren't like criminals or anything. But after we
Speaker 3: saw a Clockwork Orange, two of the four of my
Speaker 3: friends turned into criminals, started going out and doing violence
Speaker 3: and robbing people and got arrested. And I always thought
Speaker 3: ever since, was a Clockwork Orange that triggered these guys?
Speaker 7: You know what was it? And I'm not alone.
Speaker 3: A lot of people have noticed that the first time
Speaker 3: you hours of a Clockwork Orange, males mostly tend to
Speaker 3: become kind of adoring Alex and his actions. Here's the
Speaker 3: thing about Clockwork Orange.
Speaker 7: You like Alex.
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick took a psychopath and made him likable, and
Speaker 3: that is almost an impossible chore right to do that,
Speaker 3: and he did it. And so you're cheering on Alex
Speaker 3: doing terrible things to people.
Speaker 2: Leading to the demoralization and the destabilization of countries, just
Speaker 2: like Ury Bezmanoff was talking about in the early eighties,
Speaker 2: which we have a clip of Ury bezman Off in
Speaker 2: our movie not talking about that exact thing. But if
Speaker 2: you were to go back and listen to all of
Speaker 2: his interviews in the early eighties, you will see that
Speaker 2: that is the exact same type of thing that they're
Speaker 2: trying to do. I mean, what he was talking about
Speaker 2: back then is exactly what has been happening for decades now.
Speaker 2: The demoralization, the destabilization, the crisis, and then normalization. Those
Speaker 2: are his four steps to subverting an entire country. And
Speaker 2: in the movie we talk about it. We show the
Speaker 2: clip where it's being infiltrated into the school system, because
Speaker 2: Kathie O'Brien is like, we've known about this, you know,
Speaker 2: for a really long time, and it's been infiltrated into
Speaker 2: the school system, and then boom up pops Jury besman
Speaker 2: Off talking about how if we pump Marxist Leninism ideology
Speaker 2: into the soft heads of students, then you know, the
Speaker 2: agenda is going to be complete in eighteen to twenty
Speaker 2: years because those people that were pumping this information into
Speaker 2: now are going to grow up to be the leaders
Speaker 2: and the people that are going to be creating policy
Speaker 2: and in control of education in the future, right.
Speaker 5: I saw a Clockwork Orange in ninety nine, So immediately
Speaker 5: after Stanley had died, that film was re released in
Speaker 5: the UK, so literally the minute he was gone, it
Speaker 5: was back on release in the cinemas. So yeah, and
Speaker 5: I went to see it when I was drunk with
Speaker 5: a friend and we just spent the whole time laughing.
Speaker 5: So I wouldn't do that now, but that was me
Speaker 5: and my irresponsible youth. So Ryder, how did you decide
Speaker 5: who you would include in your film to discuss the shining?
Speaker 5: So you've kind of got myself featured in there, and
Speaker 5: you two guys, and there's three others as well, So
Speaker 5: how did you decide who you would get to tell
Speaker 5: the story through their narration?
Speaker 2: Well, Walter Bosley because he was an AFSI Air Force
Speaker 2: special agent and he confirmed a lot of the things
Speaker 2: that we were mentioning in our film with the Air Force,
Speaker 2: you know, basically doing MK ultra type technologies, and then
Speaker 2: the Lookout Mountain Air Force base on top of Laurel
Speaker 2: Canyon that we talk about that as a focus of
Speaker 2: the movie. Kathy O'Brien because she's an MK Ultra monarch
Speaker 2: mind control survivor and in the movie, when Danny sees
Speaker 2: the twins, there's a poster on the wall to the left,
Speaker 2: and you know, I wasn't the first person to see
Speaker 2: the poster. I'm just gonna come out and you know,
Speaker 2: say that because I feel like that it's important and
Speaker 2: to be honorable in this work. I wasn't the first
Speaker 2: person to see the poster, but I was the first
Speaker 2: person to decode the poster as an mk ultra style technology.
Speaker 2: Because everybody else on the side said that it was
Speaker 2: a minotaur, or that it was a ski resort, or
Speaker 2: was referring to Monarch Mountain. No one had put two
Speaker 2: and two together and thought, oh well, what about Monarch
Speaker 2: mk ultra mind control? And that's what really triggered me.
Speaker 2: When I seen that, I was like, holy shit. And
Speaker 2: then everything else started clicking afterwards, and then I'm finding
Speaker 2: other things in there, like the Catcher and the rye
Speaker 2: that when he was reading in the beginning, Jack doing
Speaker 2: psyche driving just like sir how Sir Holmes doing, and
Speaker 2: and yourself because Jay knew you. I did, wasn't I
Speaker 2: was familiar with your work. But I'm super happy that
Speaker 2: we got you in the film because I really think
Speaker 2: that it really brings everything together. It would be highly
Speaker 2: lacking if you weren't in their brother and Joe Outwell
Speaker 2: because of the Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Joe Atwell is the expert on the Catcher in
Speaker 3: the Rye. I've had many conversations about the book and
Speaker 3: realized that he had to be the guy that we
Speaker 3: got because he really has a great interpretation of this
Speaker 3: very nasty book.
Speaker 5: I learned a lot about the Catcher in the Rye
Speaker 5: from Joe Atwill's inclusion there.
Speaker 10: Didn't know that stuff, no, And you know, I mean,
Speaker 10: I personally think Catcher the Rye should be banned, and
Speaker 10: now they're making everybody read it in high school.
Speaker 7: And I don't think anybody should be reading this book.
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm not against banning books, so I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do it. But if there was one
Speaker 3: book that I could ban, it would be Catcher in
Speaker 3: the Rye.
Speaker 7: And and it's really not even a very good book.
Speaker 5: But it's mandatory reading in schools and colleges. Go figure
Speaker 5: has been for decades.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I can't figure that one out, except
Speaker 3: that they're part of the mk Ultra program.
Speaker 7: It's like buzz an offset and.
Speaker 5: They want people reading that book.
Speaker 7: I want people to read it. They want people to
Speaker 7: get mired in that stuff.
Speaker 3: And you know, he's really a nasty person. What's his name,
Speaker 3: I can't remember his name anymore, you know, the title
Speaker 3: character of Catcher.
Speaker 5: In the Rye Holden Coolfield Field.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not even a very nice person. He's clearly
Speaker 3: sleeping with his sister who's twelve years old. He says
Speaker 3: it several times in the book, right, that he sleeps
Speaker 3: with in the double bed with her right, And you
Speaker 3: know it's like, okay, you're nineteen and she's twelve. Okay, right,
Speaker 3: And it's like over and over throughout the book. You know,
Speaker 3: he's just this weird stuff goes on. You know, he
Speaker 3: goes into the whole thing about he has a certain
Speaker 3: hat that he puts on and that's his people killing hat,
Speaker 3: and he goes around killing people.
Speaker 7: When he wears that hat, he's like, what what are
Speaker 7: you talking about? Right?
Speaker 3: And then only in the context of freemasonry and secret
Speaker 3: societies can you begin to unravel what's really going on
Speaker 3: and to Catcher in the Rye. And then you find
Speaker 3: out that JD. Salinger was in the Oss precursor to
Speaker 3: the CIA. He was in Germany at the end of
Speaker 3: World War Two, probably debriefing the Nazi scientist for Operation
Speaker 3: paper Clip. You know, all of a sudden, it all
Speaker 3: begins to work together, the Swastika on the Wall and
Speaker 3: Catcher in the Rye and mk Ultra, and it all
Speaker 3: just to be. When we were first discussing this, because
Speaker 3: I'd known about the Catcher in the Rye, I read
Speaker 3: Joe at Little Stuff, and then I realized, my god,
Speaker 3: he first time that you meet Wendy and Danny, she's
Speaker 3: reading Catcher.
Speaker 7: In the Rye.
Speaker 3: My god, you know, she's like it. And it's probably
Speaker 3: Jack's book. He's the writer, so he probably owns that
Speaker 3: book and she's just borrowing it and reading it.
Speaker 7: But still, what's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the Catcher in the Rye is another
Speaker 2: demoralization and another destabilization of the population, and that's a
Speaker 2: big reason why it's mandatory reading. I think the Holden
Speaker 2: Cawfield within the book would be classified as like an
Speaker 2: insul in today's times. That's what he kind of seems
Speaker 2: like to me, is like in soul. He doesn't know
Speaker 2: what's going on in the world. He's trying to find
Speaker 2: his place in the world, and he's you know, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like what a lot of these mass shooters are. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you think, yes, that's exactly right, you know.
Speaker 3: And the two Catcher in the Rye assassinations happened within
Speaker 3: one year of the release of The Shining Uh. John
Speaker 3: Lennon's murder and the tempted assassination of Reagan.
Speaker 5: That really is interesting timing, Yeah.
Speaker 7: Really is. And you think about again, think about clockwork Orange.
Speaker 3: And the the the uh, you know, imitation and criminals
Speaker 3: running around both in England and America, right, and then
Speaker 3: you have two guys that react to you know, that
Speaker 3: are killing two major people, and they both got Catcher
Speaker 3: in the Rye on him. Mark David Chapman shot Lennon
Speaker 3: six times and then sat down on the on this
Speaker 3: little rock bench and it just started reading it. And
Speaker 3: the guy said, you just shot John and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 3: I know. He goes, well, what are you doing? He goes,
Speaker 3: I'm waiting for the cops.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So it's like, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: And then the Corty stood up and said, if you
Speaker 2: want my defense, all you gotta do is Recatcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye. And then it's also said that I actually
Speaker 2: have a book here called The one hundred Most Famous Criminals,
Speaker 2: and it talks about him in there. And so apparently
Speaker 2: a psychologist went to visit him in prison a couple
Speaker 2: of years later, and the psychologist said that he was
Speaker 2: still reading Catcher in the RYE.
Speaker 5: Have you noticed that Mark Chapman and John Hinckley Jr.
Speaker 5: Look very alike as well?
Speaker 7: They do?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: I was getting kind of confused, to be one percent
Speaker 2: honest Mark when I was making the movie, like because
Speaker 2: I had all the images and stuff all like kind
Speaker 2: of scrambled up, and I'm like, looking at.
Speaker 5: Both of them, I'm like, very similar.
Speaker 2: He's the same guy, like, And I had to go
Speaker 2: back and check several times and like look it up
Speaker 2: to make sure I have Whenever we were mentioning Mark
Speaker 2: David Chapman and John Hinckley that I was getting the
Speaker 2: right people when we were talking about them, they look
Speaker 2: almost identical.
Speaker 5: And a young Stephen King looks quite like them as well.
Speaker 3: Mark David Chapman looks like Stephen King when who's like
Speaker 3: twenty years old.
Speaker 7: That's yeah.
Speaker 3: Then there's other things about The Shining we don't mention,
Speaker 3: like one other movie has two of the leads have
Speaker 3: the same name as the person they're playing, Jack Nicholson
Speaker 3: as Jack and Danny as Danny. And then his co
Speaker 3: writer Diane Johnson has the D in the J as
Speaker 3: their initials as Danny and Jack have And you got
Speaker 3: to wonder did Kubrick hire Jack Nicholson because he has.
Speaker 7: The same name as the character. There's something going on here,
Speaker 7: you know, just weird.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so your film has been out on Prime for
Speaker 5: what a couple of weeks now? So what sort of reaction,
Speaker 5: What sort of reactions have you had? What sort of
Speaker 5: comments have people been making? Have there been any surprise
Speaker 5: reactions to it at all?
Speaker 3: One Bob gave me a bad review and you don't
Speaker 3: like me, clearly, But everybody else has just given us
Speaker 3: nothing but glorious reviews.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been overwhelmingly positive. And I think people are
Speaker 2: shocked because they are expecting a movie about Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 2: and the Shining, which is the main focus of the movie,
Speaker 2: but it really ties in so many other things, which
Speaker 2: is a big nod to having you Mark in the documentary.
Speaker 2: It's not only about Stanley Kubrick and the Shining, but
Speaker 2: it's about the music industry of the sixties. It's about
Speaker 2: the film industry, it's about MK Ultra, it's about the military,
Speaker 2: it's about all these different topics that are all wrapped
Speaker 2: up into this movie. And I think that that is
Speaker 2: really shocking for a lot of people because some people
Speaker 2: they know a little bit about some of the topics
Speaker 2: that we cover in there, but the way that we
Speaker 2: present it is because I've had several people that have
Speaker 2: hit me up and they've been like that, I've been
Speaker 2: what I would be considered a week for like ten years,
Speaker 2: and I'm still shocked by watching your documentary. So it's
Speaker 2: really a testament to the people that are in the
Speaker 2: documentary and the information that we present.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you did a great job with it. Is it
Speaker 5: ever going to be available on DVD or is it
Speaker 5: exclusive to Prime like Ongoing?
Speaker 3: Well, supposedly our distributor is going to put it out
Speaker 3: on DVD. I don't know that they were going to
Speaker 3: do jk X and they never did it. So I'm
Speaker 3: going to really press this one to have it out
Speaker 3: on DVD. I want permanent, you know, permanent film, and
Speaker 3: you can't get that on streaming.
Speaker 7: So the other thing.
Speaker 3: I'll say before we go here is that I had
Speaker 3: a private showing here in my town with about ten
Speaker 3: people who went to see it, and then I had
Speaker 3: follow up conversation after they saw it, and they were
Speaker 3: all shook up. Every one of them was shook up.
Speaker 3: They're all, oh my God. And then I think what
Speaker 3: we really did, which the most diversive thing we did,
Speaker 3: is we used a pop culture icon, Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece,
Speaker 3: The Shining, to reveal the truth about the MK Ultra programs.
Speaker 3: So people are going to go to see thinking they're
Speaker 3: going to see one movie, and they're actually going to
Speaker 3: come and get the normy kicked out.
Speaker 5: Of them Stanley style.
Speaker 7: Stanley style.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I kind of knew where you were going with
Speaker 5: it when I filmed my parts, but I didn't know
Speaker 5: how it was all going to come together. So when
Speaker 5: I saw it with all the other contributors as well,
Speaker 5: I was also blown away. I was like, well, now
Speaker 5: I see the completion of what you thought you were
Speaker 5: you done covered with this film, so it really all
Speaker 5: comes together in a mind blowing way.
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the things that even shocked me
Speaker 2: when I was watching the movie, because I watched it
Speaker 2: so many times, and I'm sitting there thinking, I'm like,
Speaker 2: holy shit, this is the reason why people can be
Speaker 2: as amazing at whatever it is that they do, and
Speaker 2: they'll never really get anywhere. That's another one of the
Speaker 2: realizations from this movie too, Like you can be the
Speaker 2: best singer in the world, you can be the best
Speaker 2: freaking podcaster in the world, you can be the best musician,
Speaker 2: the best guitar player. But if you don't have the
Speaker 2: right connections and the right people behind you, your family
Speaker 2: isn't involved in the right things, you're not gonna make it.
Speaker 2: And that's a really big realization and one that hit
Speaker 2: me really hard while I was making the movie. Oh shit,
Speaker 2: this is the reason. This is why. So it's a
Speaker 2: I really hope people go out and support it because
Speaker 2: it's independent. We put this thing together all on our own,
Speaker 2: and we know the Hollywood is slowly dying. It's been
Speaker 2: dead for a while now, and this is the new thing,
Speaker 2: is independent filmmakers. And I hope people you can get
Speaker 2: it on You should be able to get it in
Speaker 2: the UK and in the United States, But if you
Speaker 2: can't get it on Amazon Prime, if you're in another
Speaker 2: country that doesn't allow you to get it. It's also
Speaker 2: on Apple TV as well, so if your country allows
Speaker 2: you to get Apple TV, you can watch it on
Speaker 2: there and here. In a couple of months, we should
Speaker 2: be getting it up to where everyone can be able
Speaker 2: to watch it no matter what country they're in. But
Speaker 2: it is on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.
Speaker 5: So, yeah, were you surprised that Amazon took it because
Speaker 5: we're not talking normy material here, We're talking, you know,
Speaker 5: some pretty controversial stuff.
Speaker 2: I was not. I wasn't because I knew. I knew
Speaker 2: that Amazon was. I more surprised that they took JFKX
Speaker 2: to one hundred percent. Be honest, I was more surprised
Speaker 2: with that one than than because it's coded in a
Speaker 2: way that we're not actually outright telling you about these things.
Speaker 2: They're they're hidden within, like Jay was saying, like a
Speaker 2: pop culture icon within Stanley Kubrick and the Shiny So
Speaker 2: it's kind of disguised as a And that's kind of
Speaker 2: what we did with JFKX too, because in JFKX, the
Speaker 2: first forty minutes of the movie, it's just a history
Speaker 2: of the jfk assassination. It doesn't really reveal anything new
Speaker 2: until forty minutes in, and a lot of people say that,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going to talk about really controversial things,
Speaker 2: don't put it in until thirty minutes after on anything,
Speaker 2: because the AI can't doesn't go past thirty minutes. So
Speaker 2: that's a trick, a technique for anybody out there that
Speaker 2: produces content like this or does movies or even YouTube
Speaker 2: videos or podcasts. Try not to bring up anything controversial
Speaker 2: until after thirty minutes in because they won't be able
Speaker 2: to they won't be able to do anything about it.
Speaker 5: That's a good tip, all right, Phyllis, thanks for coming
Speaker 5: on today. Much appreciate it.
Speaker 7: Thank you man for having us really appreciate it. The
Speaker 7: buildings behind me with the headquarters for the World War
Speaker 7: Two Office of Strategic Service.
Speaker 1: It was here that the first halting steps toward mind
Speaker 1: control began.
Speaker 3: The ten years before Stanley Kubrick made The Shining, he
Speaker 3: made another film. There's a film about Micco All the
Speaker 3: Clockwork Goorn.
Speaker 2: The Shining is one movie that has really been put
Speaker 2: through the ringer and one thing that people really don't
Speaker 2: notice that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Speaker 3: All during the shoot, Kubrick is rewriting the movie.
Speaker 2: What we see here is Stanley Cue trying to encode
Speaker 2: a secret meaning into The Shining that he doesn't want
Speaker 2: anyone to know about.
Speaker 3: Kubrick has several references to Freemasonry in his films.
Speaker 2: There's a lady that walks past that has a bloody
Speaker 2: hamprint on her ass.
Speaker 3: The Shining is Kubrick's eleventh film, and there's elevens all
Speaker 3: through the film. Eleven is a special number in occult theology.
Speaker 2: The Shining has been regarded as one of the greatest
Speaker 2: horror films ever made, but is it really a horror film?
Speaker 3: The Shining also is loaded with sexual innuendo.
Speaker 2: The family is isolated up at the overlook, which is
Speaker 2: a perfect opportunity for some sort of CIA experimentation to
Speaker 2: go down up.
Speaker 6: There, using mk ultra methods psycheatrically control, assassin literally assassins.
Speaker 6: Experimental drugs, including LSD were administered to human guinea pigs.
Speaker 3: The patients were never told that their treatment was part
Speaker 3: of a CIA experiment.
Speaker 5: And there was this story which involves him spiking the
Speaker 5: drinks of one of his deputies, this guy, Frank Olsen,
Speaker 5: and he jumped out of a window to his death.
Speaker 9: It's a demonic possession, you know, so it makes someone
Speaker 9: feel like they don't have any control over this etherical
Speaker 9: entity outside themselves, when really it's the people who are
Speaker 9: imposing the trauma that need to be held accountable for
Speaker 9: the actions.
Speaker 4: Stuts.
Speaker 6: We know what happened in the apartment that they had.
Speaker 2: There are many clues that point to the fact that
Speaker 2: this theory of what the Shining is really about is
Speaker 2: the correct theory.
Speaker 3: We think that we're watching a horror movie where ghosts
Speaker 3: are kind of forcing a man to go off and
Speaker 3: kill his family.
Speaker 7: Wade, what are we really watching her?
Speaker 8: Welcome to the Hotel California, Wendy, I'm home.