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No purchase necessary void We're prohibited by Law 23 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.159 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply See website Ford. 24 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.200 Lot Talk Radian. 25 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.719 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 26 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.840 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.000 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK. 28 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.719 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 29 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.920 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 30 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.439 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 31 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.840 Good Evening. Dayton Leroy Rogers was known in Portland, Oregon, 32 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:58.840 as a respected businessman and devoted husband and father. But 33 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:02.280 at night he abduct did women, forced them into sadistic 34 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:07.079 bondage games, and thrilled in their pain, terror, and mutilation. 35 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.080 His murderous spree was stopped only after in plain View, 36 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:14.280 he slashed to death his final victim, and when a 37 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.520 hunter accidentally stumbled onto the burial grounds of seven other 38 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:20.680 women Rogers had killed one by one in the depths 39 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:24.080 of the Malaala Forest, police realized that they were dealing 40 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.639 with a serial killer whose blood lust knew no bounds. 41 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.759 This is the shocking true story of the horrifying crimes, capture, 42 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:38.520 and conviction of Dayton Leroy Rogers, Oregon's mild mannered businessman 43 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:43.039 by day, vicious serial killer by night. The book that 44 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.599 we're profiling the seating is blood Lust, Portrait of a 45 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.120 Serial sex Killer, with my special guest, journalist and author 46 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.039 Gary C. King. Welcome back to the program, and thank 47 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.680 you for agreeing to this interview. Gary C. King. 48 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.360 Thanks Dan, it's good to be I like your show 49 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:01.759 a lot. 50 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:04.759 Well, it's great to have you back. So that works 51 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:10.879 out good for everyone, including our esteemed audience. So now, 52 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.080 as we spoke before just before the program, here, this 53 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.840 is a book that came out twenty years ago. So 54 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:25.039 tell us now, this true crime classic Bloodlust. Tell us exactly, 55 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:29.080 without giving anything really too much away, how it came 56 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:31.560 to be that you wrote this book Bloodlust? Was it 57 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:34.680 your idea, the publisher's idea? How did you come to this? 58 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:36.919 How did it come to your attention? Tells us a 59 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.120 little bit about how you came to write Bloodlust. 60 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:44.520 Well, at that time in my writing career, I was 61 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:48.479 still writing for the detective magazines and I wanted very 62 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:53.560 much to break out from that and explore books. This 63 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.280 was my first book, and well therefore it was my 64 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.240 choice to write about this particular case. There were a 65 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:06.000 lot of women at the time going missing, and you know, 66 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.240 there was a true mystery going on, was what was 67 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:14.479 happening to Portland's prostitutes. They were just disappearing. And I thought, well, 68 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:17.519 this looks like a really good possibility, because it sure 69 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.040 seems like there's a serial killer at work here, and 70 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:23.920 so I followed it. I just followed the story for 71 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:29.839 a long time, and as time went on, the case, 72 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:33.160 of course, became more and more interesting as the cops, 73 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:36.120 in fact, you know, determined that there was a serial 74 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:41.000 killer and they began developing the case. But it turned 75 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.240 out that it was It was my idea, was my 76 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:49.000 choice to write about it, and I had lots of 77 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.720 cooperation from the cops in this case, which we can 78 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:56.120 get into and I can tell you about if you're interested. Absolutely, 79 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:02.680 But that's how it got started. And then came the 80 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:07.439 famous one hundred and sixty page proposal. I never had 81 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.519 written a book proposal before in the book proposal after. 82 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:16.319 The book, but yeah, proction. 83 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:21.600 And Michael Hamilton, then at that time at Penguin Books, 84 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:26.519 decided she wanted it for their new American Library imprint, 85 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.360 and so she snapped it up and I worked with 86 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.040 her for the next six months or so in developing 87 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:34.560 the rest of it into a book. 88 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.800 And she went on to Kensington Press and that's more 89 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:42.439 on the story. 90 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.319 Yeah, yeah, she is. She's actually been over there for 91 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.480 years now. Yeah, I'm very happy there with her True 92 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:51.160 Crime division. 93 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:59.079 Absolutely. Now, tell us a little bit about I thought 94 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.160 this a very fascinating to to put in perspective. Very 95 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:05.759 much like Canada, the US is even more known for 96 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.000 it seems to be one of the coasts. Even more 97 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.720 evidence of serial killers in on the West coast for 98 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:23.079 some reason. And Oregon and that area Portland, Washington. Anyway, 99 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:24.839 tell us a little bit about the history of some 100 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:29.079 of the famous and not so famous serial killers from 101 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:32.160 this area. Tell us about Brudos and up to the 102 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:34.879 Green River Killer, which I thought was very interesting. 103 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:41.079 Yeah, we know that the Pacific Northwest, particularly the Seattle area, 104 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.800 it was the stomping grounds of Ted Bundy and that 105 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:47.879 went on for a long time. And of course there 106 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:55.040 was Jerome Brudos. He operated out of Oregon and was 107 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.600 not as as big or well known as some of 108 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.199 the other serial killers, but just as vicious and savage 109 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.199 as as they were. He liked, you know, collect trophies 110 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:09.279 like breasts and feet and things like that. But he uh, 111 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:12.839 he he was, you know, fairly big in the news, 112 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.199 uh when when these things were coming out. But uh, 113 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.560 but then we've got you know, people like Wesley Alan 114 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:22.240 Dodd came from that area. He was headline news for ages. 115 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:24.600 Uh you know, child killer, pedophile. 116 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:25.639 Yeah. 117 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:29.279 And then uh the I five killer, Randall Woodfield, probably 118 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:35.000 less well known, but uh nonetheless an interesting, interesting character 119 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:36.240 from from that area. 120 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:37.040 Then. 121 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.000 Uh, in the mystery the Green River Killer, you know 122 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.680 that went on for good how many decades it seemed 123 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.000 like before uh where they found Gary Ridgeway. 124 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.480 Yeah. I found it interesting in your book is that 125 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:54.800 obviously if people had bought the book twenty years ago, 126 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.560 they would have The Green River Killer was not identified 127 00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:58.160 at that time. 128 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.800 That's true. Yeah, I allude to him a few times 129 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.959 in the opening passages because he was still out there 130 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.800 operating at the time, and there were times when people 131 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:14.120 thought that Rogers may have been somehow linked to that case. 132 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.199 But you know, of course that history turned out not 133 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:18.319 to be the situation. 134 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.720 Now in the subject of this story, or the location 135 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.759 of this story is Portland, Oregon, and we have this 136 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:32.799 you paint again very vivid portrayal of this area and 137 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:37.279 the people that inhabit it, this eighty second Avenue, and 138 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.759 you get the rationale why these people would operate not downtown, 139 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.279 but more so in this area. And then you introduced 140 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:50.679 the character Tracy Baxter. Tell us about Portland, Oregon at 141 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:55.240 that time in the late eighties and this area and 142 00:08:55.519 --> 00:09:00.440 specifically and take us back and paint a portrait of 143 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:04.960 this very different slice of life at that time. 144 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.360 Well, as you know, in any any major city, there 145 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.679 there's always going to be pockets of prostitution in a 146 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:19.480 particular area. And in Portland, for instance, Northeast Union Avenue 147 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:25.039 was well known for prostitution, and in fact, it was 148 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:27.919 so well known that the residents they're often referred to 149 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:32.240 it as prostitute Row. But it wasn't the only area. 150 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:38.159 You know, there were parts of Southeast Union Avenue, you know, 151 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.840 going all the way out to the Milwaukee, Oregon area, 152 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.440 and of course eighty second Avenue, perhaps because of its 153 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.480 proximity to the airport. I don't know for sure that 154 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.360 it seems reasonable because it's a busy boulevard, you know, 155 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:56.919 plenty of opportunity for hookers and john's to do their work, 156 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:02.039 make their connections. But but those were the main areas 157 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.600 at that time. I've been away from there for quite 158 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:06.080 a wile, so I don't know what's going on with 159 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:11.759 there right now. But eighty second Avenue Southeast, eighty second 160 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.039 Avenue was probably just as popular for prostitution and john 161 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.279 activity as was Northeast Portland. 162 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.519 Now you introduced this very crucial character in this story, 163 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:30.159 and the amazing access you have to this story is 164 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:34.679 really the gift of this book because it explains how 165 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:40.639 on earth this could actually happen, because without this information 166 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:44.600 you have a lot more questions than answers, and this 167 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.960 is really takes you to the heart of the matter. Now, 168 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:56.679 you introduced this Tracy Baxter, barely sixteen, young, batite, good looking, 169 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.200 in fit with a boy friend that you know is 170 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.559 her pimp slash boyfriend. Introduced Tracy Baxter and and her 171 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:12.759 pimp boyfriend and sort of the rationale for what she's 172 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.600 doing at this time in her life. 173 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.440 And your question is, well, just. 174 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:25.519 To just tell us about the what she was doing 175 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.080 at this age, at this age doing this. I mean, 176 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.080 obviously you explained how the boyfriend explains that we need 177 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.759 some money, honey, and so, but that's how you introduce 178 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.559 the character of. 179 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:44.080 The typical, typical teenager, you know, skipping school or not 180 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:50.000 going to school, or whatever the case may be. The 181 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.919 the situation was simply that, you know, she needed money 182 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:54.840 and this was a quick way for her to turn 183 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:58.440 a buck. And a lot of other girls got into 184 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.039 the same situation as Tracy, which is not her real name, 185 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:10.480 but it's just the youthful age of the girls seemed 186 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.120 to be a recurring pattern. Rogers seemed to like them 187 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:16.679 young when he could get them, you know, at that 188 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.679 age that oftentimes he had to settle, you know for 189 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:25.759 older women, the more mature prostitutes, but most of them 190 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:29.960 were supporting drug habits. Many of them were supporting the 191 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:35.600 drug habits of their pimps slash boyfriends. And that was 192 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:39.799 a recurring theme over and over. It was just life 193 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:42.840 on the streets of Portland or any other major city 194 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.519 for that matter, where you have this kind of activity, 195 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:53.159 and it makes people like Tracy, you know, a perfect 196 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.559 right victim for people like Rogers. I mean, they're out there, 197 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.480 they're in the open, they're taking risks that they probably 198 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.720 know that they shouldn't be taking. And of course people 199 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:09.519 like Dayton Rogers, you know, knew this so easy victim 200 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.519 for someone like Rogers. 201 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:18.799 What I found very interesting was this the pimp the boyfriend, 202 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.039 and her mission was to go out on the streets 203 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.799 and make enough money, she said, for a couple of 204 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:30.799 days worth of motel food, crack, cocaine and alcohol, and so, 205 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.120 you know, four or five hundred dollars. And so you 206 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:38.000 even described basically around the FETI was sixteen. Because she 207 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.759 was good looking, sometimes she would make eighty dollars. But 208 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:45.840 on this particular night that she's hitchhiking, it's raining. Now 209 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:48.399 what I found most interesting is that she had been 210 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:54.799 warned about, you know, this blue She had a description 211 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:57.759 of the vehicle of a guy that maybe you can 212 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:02.399 tell us what that description was that warning. And then 213 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.639 also what I found interesting was that you point out 214 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.000 that maybe the reason why, or the reason why the 215 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.799 boyfriend said that they should go to eighty second Avenue 216 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:14.480 was because the real freaks, the anima guys, the thestality guys, 217 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:19.679 the the torture guys. I couldn't believe this, were actually 218 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:24.559 more known to be those kinds of clients downtown. Tell 219 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:26.679 us a little bit more about about this. 220 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:34.080 Well, you know, naturally, they they couldn't see more than 221 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.600 two or three days into their futures, and that it 222 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.919 counts for a lot of their thinking. They're mainly just 223 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.200 thinking about getting by for the next day or two, 224 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:49.720 and it includes their their drug and alcohol habits. But 225 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:56.360 that you're right, there were certain areas where certain types 226 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.600 of johns, for lack of a better word, you know, 227 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.080 they would frequent And while I may not know them 228 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.879 off the top of my head, my research into the 229 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:11.840 book showed me that many of the prostitutes working the 230 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:16.519 various areas knew at least a little bit about the 231 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.440 kinds of guys who frequented a certain area, such as 232 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.279 the you know, the enema freak or the bondage freak, 233 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:28.000 or the violent ones. And at this particular time, and 234 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.240 I think this is what you might have been referring to, 235 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:35.159 as there were warnings out to the girls among themselves 236 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.639 and you know, among others, just people on the street 237 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.200 to watch out for this man named Steve the Gambler, 238 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:47.600 and he'd drove a you know, little blue Nissan pickup 239 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.840 and he had been known to be violent with his 240 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.360 with his dates, and so the warnings were out there 241 00:15:55.799 --> 00:16:00.600 that yet people the women that they kept taking chances 242 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:05.159 suppose out of desperation. I mean, you and I. It's 243 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.440 harder for us to fathom what would drive people to 244 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.200 go to these lengths or to take such risks. But 245 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.080 you know, it's well documented the fact that they do, 246 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.279 and it's sad. 247 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.480 What I found fascinating was that they had give a 248 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.679 good description of the vehicle pretty well, because when Tracy 249 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:32.720 actually did see it, she at least recognized that memory 250 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:35.000 of Okay, here's the description of that vehicle from this 251 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.679 kind of guy, and then the description of the guy. 252 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.639 But didn't anybody give her a physical description of the guy. 253 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.399 I thought that was odd. 254 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:49.000 There weren't the physical descriptions that were going around in 255 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:52.240 the early days, which would have included when Tracy had 256 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:57.200 her encounter with Rogers. They were very limited descriptions. They 257 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.960 were very vague, very general. They knew they were looking 258 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.480 for a you know, a white guy, seemed you know, reasonable, 259 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:13.119 seemed to have manners, soft spoken sort of individual. But 260 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.119 that's about all they really had to go on. You know, blondish, 261 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.359 brown hair, the sort of thing. Now, if somebody had 262 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.200 come out, come forward and said, hey, he kind of 263 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.799 looked a little bit like John Ritter, you know, that 264 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.960 would have helped mentally, you know, especially at that stage 265 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:32.319 of Dayton's life, because there is a resemblance there, but 266 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.359 nobody did that. 267 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:38.880 Unfortunately, there was one particular other than well i'll give 268 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.119 i'll give it away bondage, but there was one other 269 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:46.720 particular fetish that there was quite unique that it becomes 270 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.720 important a little bit later. 271 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:51.200 Yeah. 272 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:51.880 That was the feet. 273 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:57.480 The feet, Oh yeah, the feet, yeah, paramount, I mean, 274 00:17:57.759 --> 00:17:59.839 it was always the feet with him. 275 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.000 Yeah. 276 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:02.680 I don't know how much you want to get into 277 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:03.279 that here, but. 278 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:06.240 Well we will eventually. 279 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.079 Yeah, was just unbelievable. 280 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.839 But what I found interesting was that she was this 281 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.519 tracy though at sixteen years old, was actually warned that 282 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.880 he sometimes liked to get violently, like you said, but 283 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.079 he also like knives and off and cut his dates. 284 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.759 And when we're talking about desperate even I am kind 285 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.000 of shocked at this that really people were warned like 286 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.559 that and still took a chance. I mean, even I'm sorry. 287 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.359 Yeah me too, But I think it really boils down 288 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.680 to this, it'll never happen to me syndrome. This sort 289 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.880 of thing. Now, they know it's out there, they hear 290 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:48.759 about it, they see it, but it's not going to 291 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.000 happen to me. It happened to the other person. You know, 292 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:54.240 I really believe that there was a major part of it. 293 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.359 Yeah, and you explain that too. Now, now, tell us 294 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:04.920 about go back to the this amazing event with Tracy hitchhiking. 295 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.519 It's it's March, it's a little bit cold, it's it's rainy. 296 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:13.279 She's dressed real scantily, so she's not got too much clothing, 297 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.000 and she wants she's just been out for ten minutes 298 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.519 or so, and she has sort of a mindset. Take 299 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.720 us back where you take the reader to what she's 300 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.319 doing and what happens that evening. 301 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.039 Well, she's out, you know, exposed to the march weather 302 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.599 for one thing, and in the Pacific Northwest that's not 303 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.519 you know, very very nice weather. And she was out 304 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:44.680 showing her skin and you know the passion paint anklets 305 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:49.440 if I remember correctly, And and she was basically out 306 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.920 showing off her wares to try to attract some business. 307 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:58.119 And the best way she knew how was to dress 308 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.759 that way into you know, act as young as possible 309 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:06.319 and see how many people she could attract, how many 310 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.039 guys you know from the street. Sure, and uh, it 311 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:14.079 was just a typical night for her, probably a pretty 312 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.960 typical night for for Dayton too, as far as that goes. 313 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:24.000 But but uh, anyway, that's what she was doing. She uh, 314 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.599 she was just out work in the streets and and 315 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.599 she liked to hang around the Hamburger joined out there 316 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.200 to Bob's Big Boy restaurant. I don't think there are 317 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:42.680 too many of those around anymore. But uh, anyway, I 318 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.359 don't know how much you want me to get into that. 319 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.160 I mean, I I think that that pretty much covers 320 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:50.240 what she was doing to set up her evening. She 321 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.640 she just wanted to make sure that they had the money, 322 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.240 her and her boyfriend, you know, to to take care 323 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:58.720 of their drugs and alcohol in the room for a while, 324 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:04.079 and and uh, at one point, Steve the Gambler pulled up. 325 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:07.279 In his blue pickup truck. 326 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:13.279 Yeah. Yeah, and you know, had a likable face. He was, 327 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:18.960 like I said before, he was soft spoken, kind of 328 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.599 mild mannered personality until he you know, worked himself into 329 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:24.759 one of his frenzies. And that was a different matter. 330 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:31.799 But she must have trusted him because she certainly you know, 331 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:37.880 got into the truck with him. And then when she 332 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.200 did that. Of course, it was all downhill until until 333 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.279 she managed to get away. 334 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.519 Now let's not let's not skip over that, because that 335 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.119 tells us a lot about what happened to the people 336 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.039 that didn't get away, because we'll never be able to 337 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.440 tell that story. Yeah, so the thing is with with him. 338 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.880 She what you'd said in the book was that she 339 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.519 noticed the blue truck and it fit the description. But 340 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:08.440 again she's, well, it might not be, she rationalized, because 341 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.000 she needed the money. She didn't want to be out 342 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.519 that long. Again, just not thinking too far ahead. She was. 343 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.880 She was barely sixteen years old, so she got He 344 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:26.680 seemed to be uh normal, good looking, soft spoken, like 345 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.160 you said, he got into the vehicle. How did it? 346 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.759 How did this date proceed? 347 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.519 Well, they wrote along for a while. I think they discussed, 348 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:41.000 you know, the date that at one point, and probably 349 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.759 arrived at the price and and you know, I think 350 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:54.400 his his quietness eventually began to bother her. But you know, nonetheless, 351 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:57.839 you know, she stuck with it for a while. And 352 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.519 again she's not believing that something's you know, bad, you know, 353 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:09.000 is about to happen to her. But then he very 354 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.880 bluntly at you know, at one point told her that 355 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.960 he wanted to see her feet. He wanted to look 356 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.640 at her feet, and you know, she's thinking that it's 357 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.960 a strange request when he, you know, tells her that he, 358 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.480 you know, she needs to take off her shoes and 359 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.400 and but she did, you know, what she was told, 360 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.000 and she was paying attention to him, noticing that he 361 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:34.680 was getting, you know, aroused by by what she was doing. 362 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:39.640 And uh, you know, it was the nature of the business. So, 363 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.079 you know, the day goes on, and you know, he 364 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:50.799 he pushes some his trademark drink of of orange juice 365 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.839 and vodka, you know, typical screwdriver on her cause it's 366 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:56.400 easy to carry, easy to mix, easy to dispose of 367 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.079 because he used the little airline type bo vodka, the 368 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.519 type of orange juice purchased at a like a seven 369 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:13.160 eleven or the other convenience store. And he used the alcohol, 370 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:19.000 I think as much to make himself relax more as 371 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.240 much as he did to to try and loosen up, 372 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:27.480 you know, the girls. But like I said, I don't 373 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.480 know if I should have thought it was his trademark 374 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.519 because that's kind of revealing. But yeah, I've said it. There, 375 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.160 it's done. 376 00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:39.599 Yeah, yeah, you know, now she has her she has 377 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.200 her doubts when first with the vehicle a little bit. 378 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.319 Then then when he talks about the feet, but then 379 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.880 he sort of seems to be he doesn't precede anything violent, 380 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.799 it seems, wants to drink some alcohol. Then he negotiates 381 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.599 with her that he says, listen, I only got forty 382 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.359 bucks and some alcohol. And right away she's not even 383 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.400 used to making that much money. She agrees to it. Now, 384 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.680 what is his idea? And how do they get to Malalla? 385 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.319 So how does it? How does the this date go 386 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.839 that she what happens. 387 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.559 Well, the the southeast part of the city where they're at, 388 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.039 you know, off of the eighty second is is kind 389 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.920 of heading in that direction anyway, you know, towards the 390 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.240 Malala Forest. They're in the vicinity already, right, so they 391 00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.759 just have to drive a few more miles down the 392 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:38.079 road and get off the freeway and there they are, 393 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.599 you know, deep in the in the Malala forests. So 394 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:46.119 that that really didn't take very long. Excuse me, but 395 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:50.839 he had he had kind of a little bit of 396 00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:52.920 a route that, you know, that he liked to use, 397 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.559 and I think it becomes somewhat apparent is as the 398 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.720 reader you know, delves into the book that uh. But uh, anyway, 399 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.839 they drink their vodka and agree on their their date 400 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:13.680 and they they had the Milala Forest road and and 401 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.920