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Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, the Roman soldier walked out

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of the wall holding a trumpet, totally solid, but you

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could only see him from the knee up until he

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reached the level of the Roman road, and then he

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could see all of him. I lived in a haunted

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property in a place called sax Mondon, which was part

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of it the seventeenth century, and the douve was pulled

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off me twice. In the ninth and I think it

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was in the fifties a couple claimed to have witnessed

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the time slip of a battle between Romans and Celts

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by the modern buildings faded away and they saw a

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woman in Victorian Edwardian clothing standing at the top of

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the stairs, looking really angry. And she looked at them,

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so it wasn't a recording. She interacted with him and

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she looked furious, and it's because they were ripping old furnishings.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now

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it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, welcome to the Paranormal Peep Show and the Paranormal

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UK Radio Network.

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Speaker 1: And I'm here by myself, but don't worry, we do

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have a guest with us this month, and it's John West.

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And John is a prolific writer, author film star as well,

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maybe I'll say that. And also Style called the articles

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for the Psychic News magazine. Welcome John, How are you hello.

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I've never been called a film star before, so I

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appreciate that. Well. I think it's about time you did

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tell us a bit about your film work, as we're

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on the topic of that. First of all, Yeah, the

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latest stuff. I played Bellasconi, the Italian Prime Minister, in

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a drama documentary about football so apparent he was giving

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back and as the footballers, so I just played him.

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I was in a film called Boudica. I played a

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Roman soldier who ends up ordering Boudica to be killed.

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I'm the one that orders it to be speared with

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this massive ballista. So I killed Budica. And I've done

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films with Chap called Jason Figuis, the director I worked with.

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I was in a film The Ghost of Winifred Meeks.

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I played the landlord. I turn up at the beginning

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and the end, and that was filmed entirely in Suffolk.

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It's very much a slow burn film. Say it's Mr

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James if you want loads of murders, it's probably not

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for you, but it is available to watch your three

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on Amazon now when it's about three different people to

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put it on there. And the woman that played the ghost,

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it was alvery good. She'd never done acting before. Was

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my girlfriend at the time, Julie Abbotts. So well she's

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not your girlfriend now, so I shouldn't have dated a

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ghos should I obviously doesn't work well, is that when

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you because you're fading in and out a bit part.

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You know, they pay half break good though, very she's

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very good as the ghost, so I'll give her a due, right,

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And and I thought that when you list on anything

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that you do acting, I've done extra work what they

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call I mean, they don't call it extra work now.

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They call it background scenic artist or something, don't they essays?

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Or yeah, background artists? Yeah? Yeah? So so did you

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start off doing that and then move into speaking roles

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or yeah? I mean I still do a bit of that.

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I mean, obviously I was one of the leads in

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Goes to Winnifred Meeks and I'm going to be playing

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Professor Parking in an adaptation of the m R. James Wilson,

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I'll come to you me, lad, But I mean the

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other people who played it's a bit daunting because John

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Hurt played him and Sir Michael Horden. So I'm in

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good company. But I hope I'm as good as them,

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but who knows. But yeah, so that's coming up. But

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I've done some essays stuff as well. I mean the

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Buddhica thing was there wasn't any lines apart from fire

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and I killed her. Yes, enjoyable. I love it so

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but yeah, I'm looking forward to the m R James one.

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I'll probably be next year now, but I have actually

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was promoted. I was going to play the ghost, and

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they Jason Figures is doing the adaptation, wants me to

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play Professor Parking. He finds his whistle and and wisely

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blows it and summons up a ghost. Right. Is there

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a lot of lines to say in that one? Yeah?

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Probably they might have some overdubs as well or whatever

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you call them, so, but yeah, to be few lines

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than that, I don't know, actually no exactly how he's

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going to write it, but I'm sure it'll be fair

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and I'll just have to learn me lines. Yeah, I was.

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I mean when I did school plays. I always had

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trouble remembering my lines, and this is why since then

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i've anything to do with film or TV. I've tenants

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work in the background on the sound or vision or

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something like that on the technical side of things, even

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doing artwork. I've done artwork for theaters because I do

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artwork and stuff for I'm much more of the creative

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type rather than the performance type. But having said that,

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I've been in rock bands and things like that, but

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a different, different kettle of fish. I suppose a different

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sort of performance. But we do have a thing in

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common as well, which is interesting, the paranormal. And you've

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written some boards, some books. So yeah, I've written True

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Tales of the paranorm, which I will. I'll show you

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a copy of mine and you can show me all.

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Hang on second, I beg your pardon. I'll get my

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book now. Then, okay, it's like Star Trek, I like

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your T shirt. I've got a ghost one. Yeah, so

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that's true Tales are the Paranormal. That started off life

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as a book called Encounters with Fairies, Ghosts and Spirits,

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but the publisher decided to change the name, so we

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went with Umblishers. I don't know. Yeah, I know. They

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have all these ideas, don't they. So yeah, some of

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them are good, some of them. They had a book

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parked in their inboxes. It were called True Tails of

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the Paranormal, but they had no one to write it.

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And then my manuscript arrived at the time and it

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kind of dovetailed neatly into their projects. So with a

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few changes, that's how that book came about. Basically. So,

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how did you get involved in ghosts and the paranormal?

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Well that was me mum's fault. She was fascinated with

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ghosts and she had loads of paperbacks that I had

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to look at when I was a kid, and I

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was fascinated by the covers, wispy, attractive Victorian ladies, phantom monks.

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There was one of giant spiders on the front, which

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was probably the ash Tree, you know, m R. Jones.

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And I was hooked. And then my dad he bought

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me some books on ghosts. That one Mysteries of the Unknown,

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which was fascinating. It's recently been reprinted as well, and

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also that one Haunted Houses and ghosts and specters, and

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that really really fueled me interest, and my dad got

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me books on by Peter Underworld Andrew Green. But the

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catalyst was me mum with her books and then it

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led from there. But yeah, me parents basically. And I

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grew up watching the ghost Stories for Christmas on BBC,

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the Mr Jones adaptations, and it was a Dickens one.

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And yeah, I've loved it ever since, and I never

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before I'd ended up making chevy living out of it.

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But now rite for Psychic News magazine. I've got three

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books out in ghosts. This is the latest one, Ladies

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and Gentlemen Britain's Haunted Land. Wow. I like the cover. Yes,

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dream man type of figure, isn't it. That's it. Jason

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Figures designed that is a very good designer and actually

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in the top forty best selling books on the paranormal.

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I'm the only author with two books that White Night Something,

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isn't it? So? Have you been one of these type

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of people that goes out on ghost hunts where people

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do these own all night vigils with you know, sort

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of ghost detector machines and things like that. I've been

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on the odd one, but I tend to do my

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investigations on my own, and I'm not really one for

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using this equipment because half of the time you don't

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know if what it's picking up is actually genuine paranormal

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activity or just something else. So I've visited tons of

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locations on the own. I've experienced the odd thing. I

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went to Bally Church and you know, suddenly had this

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feeling of intense fear in a certain area, and then

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when I walked, I was going up the church path

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and then I've sort of walked out of it like

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it was a zone of feeling, and I walked back

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into it and felt really scared. I lived in a

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haunted property in a place called Saxmundon, which was part

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of it was seventeenth century, and the douvet was pulled

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off me twice in the night, which is a bit scary.

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But then the activity decreased because I haven't found with

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when you move into a haunted location, when I've interviewed

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people about it, the activity sort of increases, and then

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it's sort of, you know, decreases, as if the spirits

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have got used to you. But I have been on

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the odds ghost hunt. But you know, without naming them,

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nothing really happened. They blamed things happened, But I must

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admit I was a little bit, well, I wasn't impressed. Sure, yeah,

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I've been one to avoid the ghost hunt simply because

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of the fact that you know, you're going out and

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the pea and rain or and the cold, and it's like,

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I'm pretty convinced there's ghosts. I don't really necessarily have

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to go out to a graveyard to see them. And

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my argument is always, I think the spirits have long

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gone from my grave. You might see something like a

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ghostly activity, not necessarily a spirit, but of a ghost.

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And that's an important definition I think. I mean, what

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would you say. I mean, I kind of cover it

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in my book as a definition of a spirit is

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a person like our souls, that when they end this life,

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they go on to a spirit world of some kind

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of new existence and they're in their next transition of life,

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a next phase of life. But ghosts, I explain, based

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upon the siting, certainly seem to be I mean, some

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people talk about a stone tape theory, which is a

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kind of an idea recording on the atmosphere that's picked

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up by sensitive people. Others have said that they're psychic

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impressions that are picked up by sensitives, mediums, psychics that

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kind of thing, and they might be tapping into a

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reservoir of history again a similar thing to a recording,

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and other people think they're viewing time slips or something.

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But I mean, one of my favorite ghost stories is

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the the one of York, which is Harry Martindale, which

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was the plumber. I've written about it, which is well,

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I mean, you can tell us, because you're the geest,

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So I'll let you tell us. Do you just want

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of fresh people who Harry Martindale was and what his

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story was, and then maybe you could explain what you

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think are goosts and what your take on Curtly. Well,

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I'll just give you a little bit of background. This

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happened in York. Now York was a Roman foundation. It

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was a Roman fortress of the ninth Legion and then

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the sixth Legion, and it was also a colonia, which

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is basically a civilian settlement. Roman citizens lived there. There

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was only three known in Britain and that was one

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of them. And so at the end of the Roman period,

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Roman rule collapsed and then the sixth Legion pulled out,

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and then it became a Viking city, medieval city, and

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it's a major tourist attraction today. I mean, I'm going

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up there later this year to film a TV part.

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I'll tell you about that later, but anyway, nineteen fifty three,

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Harry Martin Dell was an apprentice plumber and he was

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working in the cellars of the Treasurer's House, which I've

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been him, which is a big medieval building near the Minster,

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and it was actually built in the Roman Fortress. A

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part of it was built over a Roman road, an

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internal road in the fortress called the Via Decamana, And

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he didn't notice, but the archaeologist has excavated a section

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of the road in the cellar and it exposed it

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that he was working down there on some plumbing. First day,

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nothing happened. Second day, he was tapping away on the

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walls and he heard a trumpet blast and he didn't

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really think anything of it. He thought it's probably someone upstairs,

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because the Treasurer's House is over to the public, is

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now owned by the National Trust. But he carried on working,

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and then that he was on a ladder at the

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time as well, because he was up near the ceiling,

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and all of a sudden, the Roman soldier walked out

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of the wall holding a trumpet, totally solid, so you

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could only see him from the knee up until he

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reached the level of the Roman road, and then he

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could see all of them. Well, needs to say it

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was very surprised at this, and even more surprised when

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after this Roman soldier with a trumpet was a Roman

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soldier and a horse. Nothing like the sort of stallions

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that you see in the Hollywood movies, you know, Russell

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Crowe riding them or Charlton Heston. It was like amst

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like a shire horse, you know, with you know, hairy's

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feet and you know, very stocky and a lot smaller

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than for the modern horses. And then this went through again,

236
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,039
totally solid, and it's followed by twenty Roman soldiers marching

237
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,799
a double file, and again couldn't see him from below

238
00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:44,240
the knee until they reached the hole. He could hear

239
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,799
the murmuring. Obviously he couldn't understand what they were saying.

240
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,000
He fell off the ladder. He was that scared, and

241
00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:50,919
he crawled into the corner because he thought, God, what

242
00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:54,399
apps if they see me? But they never showed. They

243
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,440
didn't seem to be aware of him. Shall we say,

244
00:13:57,159 --> 00:13:59,639
But the thing that struck him was they were nothing

245
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,679
like the Roman soldiers depicted in films and books at

246
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,159
the time. They were all square jawed in the films,

247
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,120
rectangular shields, clean shaven, immaculate, wearing red uniforms. These were

248
00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:14,200
total opposite. They were unshaven, they were very short, they

249
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,360
didn't look anything like charlton Eston for a start, and

250
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,200
they had oval shields, and they had green uniforms and

251
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:27,519
he's short looking daggers swords. And he couldn't understand this

252
00:14:27,559 --> 00:14:29,879
because he'd been brought up with this, you know, the history,

253
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,879
that they didn't look like Romans as he imagined them,

254
00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:35,279
which would suggest that if he was going to fake it,

255
00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:38,600
he would have described, you know the ones I've just described,

256
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,360
you know, red uniforms and that. But anyway, these Roman

257
00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:45,200
soldiers carried on walking, went through the other wall and vanished.

258
00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:48,039
So he legged it out of the cellar and he

259
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,639
bumped into the chap who was running the treasurer's house,

260
00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:53,200
and the chap said to him, oh, by the look

261
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,960
of you, you've seen the Roman ghosts. And Harry Martindale

262
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,600
apparently swore him and said, why didn't you tell me

263
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,120
they were there? I'd never have gone, well, he was set,

264
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,759
that's shaken that he left a job, and it's actually

265
00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:07,639
records that he went to see his doctor and got

266
00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:11,919
signed off. And he kept quiet about it until the seventies,

267
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,039
and then he became a york Minster policeman because the

268
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,200
york Minster has its own police force and because in

269
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,600
the nineteenth century someone tried to burn it down, so

270
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,759
after that they brought in their own police and they

271
00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:27,399
still exist to this day. And he told someone about

272
00:15:27,399 --> 00:15:30,360
this experience and said, because don't tell anyone, because this

273
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,080
person did went to the press, presumably made some money

274
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,000
out of it, and because it hit the international news,

275
00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:40,000
and he was interviewed about it and he said, yes,

276
00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:42,360
I did see these soldiers. I'm not going to deny it.

277
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:45,879
And he was interviewed by archaeologist who tried to throw

278
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,279
him about what he'd seen, and he stuck to his story. No,

279
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,559
they had oval shields, they were short, you know, he

280
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:56,159
didn't hadn't shaved. They were green tunics. And it turned

281
00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,000
out that that was actually accurate. In the later Roman period,

282
00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:03,799
the Roman army had changed their uniforms and did have

283
00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:08,279
different colored tunics and oval shields or the other periods

284
00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:11,320
they were auxiliary soldiers who weren't Roman citizens, but again

285
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,200
had their own uniform because the Romans recruited them from

286
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,240
the lands that they conquered. So and then it turned

287
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,639
out it was a lady called Joan Mowson. She came

288
00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:24,360
forward she'd seen the Roman soldier ghosts in the nineteen fifties.

289
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:28,039
In nineteen fifty seven, I believe, and her dogs had

290
00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:30,600
seen them as well, and reacted really badly again in

291
00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:33,440
the cellar, and a daughter had often heard a trumpet

292
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,679
being blown and didn't really think anything of it. Say

293
00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:40,919
it hit the headlines. It became one of is now

294
00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:44,200
one of the most famous ghost stories ever. The cellar

295
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:46,120
was open to the public and I went down. I

296
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,519
must admit I didn't experience anything. I did see the

297
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,480
Roman road and I was hoping, please Roman soldiers appear,

298
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:55,399
but they didn't, and that they've never been seen since

299
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,039
I believe the fifties. I haven't managed to find anyone

300
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,720
who's claimed to have seen them since then. As the

301
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,359
odd medium. Psychic mediums claimed the picked up images of them,

302
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,839
but obviously that's in there on mind's eye, and you

303
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,519
don't know whether that's they're expecting to see him, so

304
00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:12,880
they imagine them. But the thing is the seller was

305
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,359
altered later on. And I've sound with some hauntings that

306
00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:19,759
when you alter a building, you do building work, it

307
00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:22,799
can almost well a raise a haunting, shall we say.

308
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,400
And although the ceiling was changed and that wasn't part

309
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,000
of the Roman road, perhaps was the ceiling constructed out

310
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:34,440
of Roman stones? And my theory is that they weren't

311
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,720
actually ghosts, that somehow he activated a recording and it

312
00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:43,039
replayed for him. And whether it was the intense emotions.

313
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,440
Was it like the last Roman soldiers leaving the fortress

314
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,119
at York after the Romans had been there for three

315
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,759
hundred and fifty years, and were they feeling depressed anxious?

316
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,440
They were leaving their loved ones. They'd been ordered because

317
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,319
they had families there and they were going to the

318
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,960
continent to an uncertain future. That is my theory. I

319
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,359
don't believe they were conscious entities. I believe they were

320
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,960
literally just a recording that Arie Martindale activated. I should

321
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,920
also point out in the twenties a Roman soldier was

322
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,400
seen in Treasurer's house when he was still a private property.

323
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,319
There was a fancy dress party and this lady went

324
00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:20,000
off for a wander, having a look round, and she

325
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,119
was shocked to see a Roman soldier who barred away.

326
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,680
Now this seemed to interact with her, so you know

327
00:18:25,759 --> 00:18:29,440
that's different to the other haunting I've just described. But

328
00:18:29,559 --> 00:18:31,559
she went back to the owner complain and said it

329
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:33,880
was that rude person dressed as a Roman soldier. I

330
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,799
bet you no one'm going to say there was no

331
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:39,799
one at the fancy dress like a Roman. So yeah,

332
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,640
so that's a really famous story. But her other Roman

333
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,079
soldier ghosts in York, the Roman Baths, which I'm hoping

334
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,640
to film in for this TV pilot, that's supposedly haunted

335
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,200
by a Roman soldier, and I think it was in

336
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,319
the fifties. A couple claims to have witnessed a time

337
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,440
slip of a battle between Romans and Celts, like the

338
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,359
modern buildings faded away and it was like before the

339
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,200
fortress had been built. Obviously, you know there might be

340
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,160
some Roman soldiers still around. But anyway, that's my take

341
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,319
on what it what it possibly could be. I think

342
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:20,640
it was a recording. That's interesting, very interesting explanation. Now,

343
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:28,720
the accounts I read said that Harry Martindale saw the Romans.

344
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:30,480
Like you say, he saw them the stubble on and

345
00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:35,759
things like that. He also heard them speaking as well, murmuring, yeah,

346
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:40,559
he couldn't understand what they were saying. And then the

347
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,400
lady you mentioned five years later in nineteen fifty seven,

348
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,599
who I think she was like the housekeeper or something

349
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,440
like that, looking after lived there. She lived there, and

350
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,319
she was checking all the rooms at night, and the

351
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,519
dogs were barking, so she she looked down the cellar,

352
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,599
and although she saw the Romans, the description she gave

353
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,160
was slightly different from the original sight of Harry Martinew

354
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,720
because she said, I think Harry Mantdale cited one or

355
00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:11,400
two horses, but most of them were on foot. But

356
00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:13,559
these other ones, there was loads of them coming in

357
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:17,079
on horses or something, and they appeared to be asleep

358
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,319
on the horses, as if the horses were marching them home.

359
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,880
And they were so knackered, these poor Roman soldiers, that

360
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,839
they just fell asleep on the horses. So you know,

361
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,519
I'm wondering was it a recording, because I'm assuming that

362
00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:36,400
if you watch a recording, you'll see the same recording replayed,

363
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,519
unless of course it's a different episode as such that

364
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,200
is a recording or it just stopped before these other soldiers.

365
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:51,039
He could be. My theory was is that because there's

366
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:53,920
a lot of people talk about the stone tape theory

367
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,960
and it came to light to me not that long

368
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,839
ago that it was actually like an invention. Whether it's

369
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,839
inspired by real research, I can't say for sure, but

370
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,480
the invention of the stone tape theory came about because

371
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:13,559
it was featured in something called Play for Today or

372
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,039
something like that. I remember it as a kid. Yeah,

373
00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:21,160
it was really paranormal subject within a TV play sort

374
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,640
of thing of ghost researchers, which the idea was that

375
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,839
the atmosphere or a castle or something will record ghosts

376
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,599
that are replayed at a later date. And lots of

377
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,640
people have launched onto that not realizing the origin of

378
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,839
where it's come from that particular thing. And so now

379
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,279
they kind of apply the stone tape theory to lots

380
00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:43,920
of sightings of ghosts and things. But I actually wonder

381
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,799
if the Roman ghosts of York were Harry Martindale who

382
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:51,319
saw his I think it was like in the November

383
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,519
of nineteen fifty three and the Laby February Sorry, and

384
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:01,240
then it was the lady later on in nineteen fifty seven,

385
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:05,400
she saws hers in November or the winter months anyway,

386
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,440
and they both describing them having mud splatters. Yeah, they

387
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,720
were both done in the winter months, the sightings by

388
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:17,960
Harry Martindale and the caretaker lady, and they were covered

389
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,319
in mud each time the Romans were which suggested me

390
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,359
that they were in their winter time of whenever those

391
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,200
actions were recorded or featured, if you like, in some way.

392
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,119
And so I wondered if they were looking back at

393
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,759
a kind of simultaneous time that was occurring back in

394
00:22:35,759 --> 00:22:40,240
those winter days of that Roman Britain back then. I

395
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,440
if Harry Martindale's ceases on November the one, nineteen fifty seven,

396
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,960
it's November the first one hundred AD, back in those

397
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,319
Roman times, and he's seeing on the same day, probably

398
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:54,279
about the same time, and they're literally looking through a

399
00:22:54,279 --> 00:23:01,079
window across time there. And if it was a summer's

400
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,559
day that Harry Martindale happened to be working in the

401
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,839
Chancellor's house, he might have seen less muddied Roman soldiers

402
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,279
who were in a sort of summertime a tie with

403
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,880
no mud on them, because it wouldn't be wet on

404
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,319
the ground that was just my theory or something like that.

405
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,079
I mean, there are various theories about it. I mean,

406
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,039
some people believe they were real ghosts, they were spirits,

407
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:27,519
time slits, the stone tape theory. Some people have said

408
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:30,000
he made it up and the other woman latched onto

409
00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:33,119
it for the notoriety. So I mean, but it always

410
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,839
stuck through his story and I never met him. Sadly

411
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,200
he passed away a few years ago, but I did

412
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:40,839
meet someone who'd spoken with him, and he said, look,

413
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,000
the guy was on the level, you know, you know,

414
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,519
why would he lie? You know? He never you know,

415
00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:48,279
he never made a fortune out of that. He didn't

416
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:50,759
write a book about it. Yeah, I mean for years

417
00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:53,839
he wouldn't even appear on programs but talk about it.

418
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,160
So it wasn't as if he wanted the fame. So

419
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,640
but yeah, well we'll never really know. I mean, as

420
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,880
I said, the ghosts haven't been seen for years. I

421
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,559
was told an academic apparently seen him in the forties,

422
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:09,559
but I've never been able to find out who that

423
00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:12,880
was what they exactly saw, So that could be just

424
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,079
a rumor. But certainly, apart from people claiming that they've

425
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,839
had a sense of Roman soldiers down there. I mean,

426
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,759
I actually asked someone in the treasurer's house has anything

427
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,240
being seen, and she said, look, she said, I've been

428
00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:26,200
in that cellar loads of times. She said, I've never

429
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:31,000
experienced anything, you know, in winter, summer, spring, autumn. So

430
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,119
perhaps it's as you know, fizzled out, or you know,

431
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,640
if it was a time slip, the windows closed forever,

432
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,960
who knows. Yeah, yeah, I mean you mentioned that they've

433
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,319
done building works and things since that time, and I

434
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,359
actually wonder they have if a bit like feng Schway

435
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,559
type of thing where you move furniture around the house

436
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:52,519
to let the energy flow, a similar things happened in

437
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:57,599
this building, and the building was acting almost like an

438
00:24:57,759 --> 00:25:02,119
amplifier assaults to amplify these signals in some way, and

439
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,319
once building works happened, it's kind of decreased that ability

440
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,200
for it to function. And the same way that people

441
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,960
talk about poltergeists, when they a lot of people move

442
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,519
into a house, they start to stir up trouble once

443
00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:19,920
they start ripping out things and decorating things, and that's

444
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,279
when the activity starts to appear. It often happens. I

445
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,519
spoke to a lady in Saxmondon because I used to

446
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,880
live in Saxmondon place in Suffolk and they were doing

447
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,079
up their house and I think there's like Victorian there

448
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,079
might have been a bit that went back earlier than that.

449
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,079
And they saw a woman in Victorian ed Wardian clothing

450
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,359
standing at the top of the stairs looking really angry,

451
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:45,079
and she looked at them, so it wasn't a recording.

452
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:48,640
She interacted with them and she looked furious, and it's

453
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,680
because they were ripping old furnishings that were from the

454
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:58,119
Victorian period. So for some reason, you know, that spirit

455
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,079
had been hanging around and didn't want those showing. So

456
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,640
that was that definitely wasn't like a stone tape or

457
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,599
even a time slip, because you know, she interacted with them,

458
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,119
so it wasn't and unless it was a time slip,

459
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,880
and she so knew the hell are these people in

460
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,920
my house? But she was conscious of them and they

461
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,000
were conscious of her, so that obviously wasn't a recording.

462
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,799
But she sold the place and she said, oh, you know,

463
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,920
never name it, she said, because if the people buy

464
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,440
it to find out it's haunted. And I was never

465
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,720
able to speak to the people who moved in because

466
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,839
he how could you actually ask him? You know, by

467
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,480
the way, I you've seen the old Victorian, a red

468
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,559
Wardian lady on the stairs, just as they've got young

469
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,200
kids as well. Oh god, I yet quiet about that. Yeah,

470
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:43,799
it's interesting. She mentioned ed Wardian lady because one of

471
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:46,000
the people that's involved in our channel that runs a

472
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:51,160
paranormal UK radio network which we're part of, called Irene

473
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,599
Ann Block. She said that she was looking around a

474
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,680
house with her son who is intending to buy it,

475
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,599
and so she decided to walk up the top stairs

476
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:02,440
and went into the very attic room at the very

477
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,640
top and she came face to face with a Victorian

478
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,559
maid who looked really shocked at seeing her, and she

479
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,359
went like that, and obviously Irene went like that, and

480
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,160
then this lady in Victorian maids dress sort of just

481
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,720
faded out. So again there was an interaction, and it's

482
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,559
almost like two times a visiting each other almost on

483
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,680
a physical but temporary basis or something. Or perhaps that

484
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:29,640
Victorian maid went and told her mistress, my god, I've

485
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,559
just seen the ghost upstairs where a woman wearing really

486
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:35,640
odd clothing. Yeah, so then she probably got the factory

487
00:27:35,759 --> 00:27:39,240
or something. You've been drinking on the job. Yeah, they might.

488
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,880
They might explain these these UFOs that people wonder if

489
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
their visitors from the future or something, you know, or

490
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:49,319
Rendellsham Forest which is near me. Some people claim that

491
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,759
they're people from the future, not aliens. So yeah, it's

492
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,279
it's a there's different explanations for all these these things.

493
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,200
I can't I don't think you can basically say the

494
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:03,039
ghosts are one particular thing. I think this goes so

495
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,240
many things. It's like poltergeists. So there's different explanations for

496
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:11,000
different hauntings. You can't put them all into one one

497
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,680
box show. We say and say this is what they are,

498
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:18,079
and we're going to label them now the day's the

499
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:24,200
best day made life. Listen to the Normal UK readio Network.

500
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:28,599
Speaker 4: Join Andrew o'leil every month on the Paranor peep Show,

501
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:31,960
part of the Paranormal UK Radio Network for fun that

502
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,079
frolics and lots of information about weird stuff UFOs, ghosts

503
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,920
and things that go bump in the night and everything

504
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,119
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information.

505
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,039
Speaker 1: Right Welcome back to Part two of the Paranormal Peep

506
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:52,079
Show on the Paranormal UK Radio Network and I'm here

507
00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,359
with John West and we're talking about Roman ghosts, poltergeist

508
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,119
and all other kinds of paranormal phenomena. So we're just

509
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,480
talking a little bit there in part one about the

510
00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:07,160
poltergeist activity. Do any of these Roman ghosts appear to

511
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:10,920
engage with the viewers in some way on a kind

512
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,319
of level that a poltergeist make or do they appear

513
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,200
just to be neutral observations that they're going about their

514
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:21,039
daily tasks as they would have done. Yes, I've never

515
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:25,640
come across anywhere the Romans have interacted these ghosts with

516
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,640
the observers. So again, is it a time slip or

517
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,319
just a recording? So I mean, for instance, there's a

518
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,039
case on Hadrian's War where people have claimed to have

519
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:41,400
seen a Roman soldier standing literally about ten feet in

520
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,960
the air, presumably on the line of the Roman War,

521
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,240
which has since vanished near Hounstead's Roman Thought. And also

522
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:50,680
bird Oswald, Roman Fat which is to the west of

523
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,119
there in Cumbria, is also apparently haunted by a Roman soldier.

524
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,960
People have claimed to have seen it in the old

525
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,119
farm buildings which is now a museum, but again it

526
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,480
never interacts with anyone, so it doesn't appear to be

527
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:07,480
aware of them. So again, is it a recording a

528
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,000
time slip? So I've never met any Romans yet that

529
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,160
have actually spoken to me seen them like that. I'll

530
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,160
come back to that point of the Roman on the

531
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,200
invisible Wall in a second. It just reminded me about

532
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,000
a year ago speaking to a lady here in Dorset

533
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:27,720
who said that her husband and her daughter were coming

534
00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:30,400
to pick her up from the local hospital, and as

535
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880
they drove around the road to come pick them up,

536
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,519
she said she he nearly ran into about ten romans

537
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:42,119
crossing the road. But like Harry Martindale, these romans appeared

538
00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:44,759
to be nothing from the feet down, sorry, from the

539
00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:47,480
knees down, they appear to have no legs. But he

540
00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:49,359
put on the brakes automatically as you would do when

541
00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:51,079
you see a load of people walking in front of you,

542
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,640
and realized they must have been ghosts. Fortunately because his

543
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,680
wife was a spiritualist and she's into mediumship, and he

544
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,440
kind of understood what was happening. But it wasn't just

545
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:04,240
him that saw it, as his daughter as well. And

546
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,559
I think the husband's passed on. But I did ask

547
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:09,240
the lady if I could get an interview with the

548
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:11,200
door and she said, oh no, she won't give interviews,

549
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,880
So unfortunately I'm stuck with just her sort of third

550
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,680
hand information. But interesting as it seems, and I did

551
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,440
look into it, and there have been a few Roman

552
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:23,960
kind of faults and constructions in the area, so maybe

553
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,440
they were associated with that, but they obviously were not

554
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,799
aware of any vehicles, certainly from the twentieth century or

555
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:35,240
twenty first century, about to drive into them. So getting

556
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:38,559
back to the Roman soldier on top of Hadrian's wall,

557
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,839
it's interesting that the wall section that he would have

558
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,799
been appearing on from his time was not visible anymore

559
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:51,519
because fallen down, and yet the Roman soldier still appears

560
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:54,279
to be standing on it, and so you think, well,

561
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:56,519
maybe that's because he's a living being or was a

562
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,039
living being where the stone wall was. But then you've

563
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:03,319
got to think about, well, hang on, he's wearing presumably

564
00:32:03,559 --> 00:32:06,759
armor and clothes or some sort. You know, they're not living.

565
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,200
So it makes you wonder what part of the ghost

566
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:15,079
or something is created for the effect to happen. I mean,

567
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:18,599
we talk about ghostly carriages and ghostly horses. I mean,

568
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:21,920
we've had the horses with Harry Martindale. But how far

569
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,200
does the ghost phenomenal stretch does it go into objects?

570
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:28,519
Can you get ghostly carriages and things like that? It's

571
00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:34,279
like phantom ships have been seen, so yeah, and ghostly cars.

572
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:37,079
There was one on the Isle of Sky that was

573
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:40,319
seen before an accident involving a car that matched the

574
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,680
description of the car that they've seen, So that was

575
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:46,000
like a ghost before something happened, but they never know

576
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:48,599
there was never anyone seen in the car. So yeah,

577
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,480
I mean, as I said, there's verious. I think there's

578
00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:53,559
various explanations for what's happening with ghosts, is not just

579
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,039
one explanation that fits all. And talking about the Roman

580
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:01,200
soldiers as well as Saint Albans, which in Roman times

581
00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:05,759
was called Virolanium is actually sacked by Boudica during the

582
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:09,400
rebellion in AD sixty sixty one when she burnt the

583
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,640
town to the ground and massacred the inhabitants. That's also

584
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,799
haunted by Romans. The Roman Theater, which you can visit,

585
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,240
people have claimed to have seen on what was the

586
00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:30,440
stage area of Roman soldiers Roman dignitaries. So a woman

587
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:32,680
claimed to have seen that. She claimed to have seen someone

588
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:37,119
dressed like a Roman senator or a magistrate in his finery.

589
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:41,000
And also there's the foundations of I think it's the

590
00:33:41,079 --> 00:33:45,359
London Gate. There's a stretch of wall Roman wall in

591
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:49,160
the old Park area which you can actually visit. And

592
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,519
this one actually is different to what we talked about before.

593
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,799
This is the only one. It's just came back into

594
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:59,400
my mind where the Roman seemed to interact with the

595
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,839
observer he was with I think he was an academic.

596
00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:05,519
I can't remember his name offhand, but he was with

597
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:07,359
some friends and they were looking at the ruins of

598
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,719
the gate and literally is only the foundations. There's nothing

599
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,880
there that's impressive. You know, you haven't got liking when

600
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,559
you go abroad and you see the massive towers still standing,

601
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,360
literally just the flint foundations. And he was described as

602
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,320
going into a trance by his friends, and he blamed

603
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,280
to have seen a Roman charioteer coming out of the gate,

604
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:35,360
and the horses seemed to observe him and reacted badly

605
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,679
and refused to move forward, and the Roman charoitier didn't

606
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,119
see him, but kept whipping them to get them to

607
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,760
go forward, and was shouting something. He couldn't understand what

608
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,840
he was saying, you know, to get the animals to

609
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,239
move forward, but they could see him and wouldn't go forward,

610
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,840
and then bumped they vanished. So was that literally a

611
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,480
time slip that those horses they saw this what they

612
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,840
were you know, some strange figure in front of them,

613
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,559
are clearly terrified them and a lot of people believes

614
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:08,639
horses are psychic. But the charity couldn't see them, couldn't

615
00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:12,000
see him, and then it went back to normal and

616
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,039
that was it. But that's that's the only time I've

617
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:16,840
ever heard of anything being seen on the side of

618
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,320
the gate. But again the fear for a few people

619
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,239
who claimed to have seen things there. So it might

620
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,960
be worth you know, if you're ever in that area

621
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:25,639
or your listeners were in Saint Albans, prop along there

622
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:28,119
and see if you spy remember going there. I mean

623
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:30,159
I've been in St Albans since, but I remember going

624
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:35,000
around the ancient parts of Viverolanium or Saint Albans on

625
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,880
school trips because I didn't live that far away. I

626
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,639
lived in chaff and Saint Peter in Buckinghamshire, so it

627
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:45,079
would have been about forty miles up for the one

628
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:47,920
or something like that to get to it, i'd imagine.

629
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,960
So if there's plenty of Roman ghosts appearing in Britain,

630
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,519
do we get incidents of Roman ghosts appearing in Italy

631
00:35:56,639 --> 00:36:00,679
predominantly Rome? Well, I've heard of I Was where people

632
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:04,960
have claimed to have seen Roman soldiers, Hadrian's Villa, people

633
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:09,039
have claimed to have seen seen figures there. So I mean,

634
00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:12,159
you've got to remember that the Roman culture was around

635
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:14,719
for centuries. I mean, they occupied Britain for over three

636
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,000
hundred and fifty years, and a lot of Western European

637
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:21,400
civilization is based on Rome and Greece because the Romans

638
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,519
took a lot from Greece, the architecture, things like that,

639
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:27,440
the gods or that they renamed them. So you know,

640
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:29,280
they were around for a long time and they have

641
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:33,920
influenced us. So yeah, I've mainly studied sort of the

642
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,960
British societings, but I am aware that people have claimed

643
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,480
to have seen Romans abroad, you know, across what was

644
00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:44,480
the Empire. Yeah, yeah, so so really there's there seems

645
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,639
to be a predominance of Roman goes simply because they

646
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:51,320
were a large kind of like you say, empire at

647
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,400
the time. Is only kind of like research done into it.

648
00:36:57,519 --> 00:36:59,960
I think where people have classified the amount of Roman

649
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:05,559
ghost seen against say medieval ghosts or seventeenth century Highwayman

650
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:08,119
ghosts or anything like that. I mean, does there seem

651
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:12,159
to be a predominance of people always citing Roman ghosts

652
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:15,519
against other types? Do you think, Well, the ones I've

653
00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:18,719
come across, it seems to be the later periods of

654
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,800
more ghosts than the Roman period. I mean, for instance,

655
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,480
there's very few cases of people claiming to have seen

656
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,119
ghosts from the pre Roman period prehistoric men. There was

657
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:30,719
a case I can't remem where it was now, but

658
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,199
an archaeologist saw a ghost of a Bronze Age horseman

659
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:37,400
that vanished near a burial mound. That's one of the

660
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,400
earliest ghosts in Britain. People can look it up. I

661
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,840
can't remember where it was exactly, somewhere down south southwest,

662
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,960
I believe. But yeah, there doesn't seem to be as

663
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,119
many Roman soldiers haunting sight, shall we say, as phantom

664
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:54,079
monks or Victorian ladies or English Civil War soldiers hanging

665
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,719
around Marston Moore and Naseby. So again, is it because

666
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:02,280
after a while the haunting literally wears itself out. It's

667
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,880
like an old video recording he doesn't play anymore. I mean,

668
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,760
for instance, there was a chat called Elliot O'Donnell, very

669
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,880
famous ghost writer of his day. A lot of his

670
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,280
books are out now again because they're out of copyright

671
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,559
and get on Amazon. And he was an irishman. Oh

672
00:38:18,639 --> 00:38:20,079
he had some English blood in him. I think his

673
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:23,239
mother was English. But he came up with a theory

674
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,679
long before the Stone Tape that a lot of these

675
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,519
ghosts were just recordings and over a period of time

676
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,920
they would literally just fade away. Because he interviewed people

677
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,760
in the East End of London who were around at

678
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,760
the time of the Jack Ripper murders, and he picked

679
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,880
up loads of stories about this murder sits being haunted.

680
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:46,199
But then he said that some of them years later,

681
00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:49,159
the haunting just stopped. It was like it lasted twenty

682
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,360
thirty years and then it sort of faded away. So

683
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,360
he had a theory at certain hauntings were only around

684
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,599
for a few decades and then boom they were gone.

685
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,960
So he was ahead of his time with that one.

686
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:03,440
He's worth checking out, is so Donald Is. Some people

687
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,840
accused him of exaggerating stuff and perhaps he did to

688
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,639
sell books like Harry Price did. But I mean it's

689
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,920
very interesting character and you know, everyone should read his books.

690
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,840
I mean, could that be partly to do with the

691
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,920
social kind of climate that changes over a period of

692
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,880
thirty years. People maybe don't want to be seen as

693
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,000
foolish if they're reporting seeing ghosts. I mean I kind

694
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,199
of met many interesting people that told me some fascinating

695
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,840
stories of paranormal encounters that they wouldn't openly tell to

696
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,559
other pot And it could be that over that thirty period,

697
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:42,280
thirtyear period, although these ripper murders or whatever ghosts are

698
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,000
fading away, maybe they're still are sighted, but people just

699
00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:48,719
don't want to appear to be silly. And that goes

700
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,920
with the kind of social changes of attitudes and things

701
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,800
as time progress, this kind of thing, you know, well,

702
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,920
I mean it could well be because Elliott o'donald grew

703
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,039
up at the time and when spiritualism with it in

704
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:03,239
its heyday, and then after the First World War, when

705
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,719
you know, people were desperate to contact loved ones that

706
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,800
have been lost in that terrible war. So that could

707
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,360
could be a valid point. And also the East End

708
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,199
has been transformed so much since the days of Jack

709
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,800
the Ripper. That's hardly any side that hasn't been touched.

710
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,239
I mean, mita Square. The original cobbles are ripped up

711
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,840
years ago. It's unrecognizable apart from they kept the shape

712
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,840
of the square, you know, there's nothing from apart from

713
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,320
one building at the side. I think it's still Victorian.

714
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,280
It's been totally transformed and I think the last sight

715
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,400
in there. Peter Underwood wrote about it and Haunted London.

716
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,039
It was in the early seventies and a couple saw

717
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:44,760
a figure of a woman lying on the ground in

718
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,480
the what they needs to call Ripper's Corner where he

719
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:51,079
murdered Katherine Edos and they were going to go over

720
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,639
to see, you know, if she was okay, because she

721
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,199
looked like a real person. And then a load of

722
00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:57,920
youths came into the square and they got a bit

723
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,159
worried and backed off, and the youth started playing the

724
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:03,159
area where this woman had been lame and she's gone.

725
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,840
So and for instance, Mary Kelly was regarded as Jack

726
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,199
the Ripper's last official victim in London where she lived.

727
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,079
Miller's Court was supposed to be haunted and it's supposed

728
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:16,719
to be a bloody handprint on the wall that they

729
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,800
couldn't remove because Miller's Court was demolished. So most of

730
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,320
the Ripper sites had been transformed because I think the council,

731
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,960
especially in the sixties and seventies, just didn't like people

732
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:30,440
going there and wanted to basically eradicate anything to do

733
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:32,840
with Jack the Ripper because they thought it was importos.

734
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,920
So I know you still get Ripper walks now, but

735
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,360
obviously the atmosphere has gone. There's very few Victorian buildings

736
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,000
left once you go off the main streets. Shall we say?

737
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,199
That leads me to wonder about because I mean, my

738
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,519
wife and I have been recently watching on Netflix documentary

739
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:54,000
Is and also dramatization of Fred and Rose West, which

740
00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:57,960
is more relation. Yeah, Hope's not Hope not. You never know,

741
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,360
but I mean that obviously happened about ninety well, it

742
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,239
was discovered in about nineteen ninety four. I think that

743
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,960
for those that don't know that this builder who lived

744
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,840
at twenty five Cromwell Avenue, I think it was in

745
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:18,000
Gloucestershire along with his wife for being respons responsible about

746
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:20,760
I don't know, it's like twenty your deaths of young

747
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,239
girls over a period of maybe from the seventies right

748
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,480
through to the mid nineties, a long more, I believe,

749
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,079
possibly more. Yeah, some are buried in his basement, some

750
00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:32,920
were buried out in the garden, and then there was

751
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,039
you know, he'd obviously run out of room and he

752
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,559
was burying him up in the woodlands and by trees

753
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:39,480
and things like that. But like you said, there could

754
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:43,880
be more. Now. Back in the mid nineties, my friend said,

755
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,559
let's go there. Let's go there. So we went off

756
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:50,119
to Gloucestershire and went into a state agent. And in

757
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:51,480
those days you had to get a map off and

758
00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:53,079
a state agent at the local area to try and

759
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:55,239
find your way around. And we went there and there

760
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,400
was a policeman outside the building, and there was a

761
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,079
few Japanese tourists and some flowers being laid to rest on,

762
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,760
you know, by the gate or something. But then some

763
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,800
time after that and the whole house have been knocked down,

764
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:12,960
which I can understand that in a way because a

765
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,840
it probably way you might get people that want to

766
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,920
buy it. But maybe just for the kind of novelty

767
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:25,400
of owning a house of such destruction. I suppose you

768
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,639
know a very rich person, but would anyone want to

769
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:31,880
move back into that house, knowing the case of what's

770
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,079
happened there, and I suspect, you know, I do wonder

771
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:39,599
if they knock the house down to kind of a

772
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:41,519
avoid that kind of thing, but also there might be

773
00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:43,960
a deeper level there where they're actually wanting to avoid

774
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,960
things like hauntings. Someone might advise the local council or

775
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,639
the police or someone to say, knock it down because

776
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:52,440
you're going to end up with hauntings in the air

777
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,119
or something like that, because they removed all the bodies.

778
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,440
But you never know, and certainly with these psychics that

779
00:43:59,519 --> 00:44:02,840
contune into murder situations and things like that, there could

780
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,400
be some sort of really bad energy there that's been

781
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,719
left over. But because of what's happened. I mean, what's

782
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,159
your thoughts on that, well, I do. I've read a

783
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:15,880
couple of books Colin Wilson. Actually, as an aside, I

784
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,280
was involved in a series about Colin Wilson, the writer

785
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,280
and philosophy who did loads of books and goes. He

786
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,880
did a book about the West murders, and I believed

787
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,639
in the council of just wanting to knock the place

788
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,960
down because the locals didn't want it there because they

789
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,519
were tritened in a notoriety that people would be going there,

790
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,960
tourists and stuff. I've never heard that people wanted it

791
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:37,440
knocked down because they were frightening. He was going to

792
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,960
be haunted, but it was just you know, who'd want

793
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,920
to live there. I wouldn't want to live there because of,

794
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:44,440
you know, just the terrible things that went on there.

795
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,519
I mean, you know, they were evil people, and we

796
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:52,039
were rightly, you know, I mean, obviously Fred West hung himself,

797
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,039
but you know, Rose West. Is she still alive. I'm

798
00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:56,800
not sure she's still in im prison I believe. Yeah, well,

799
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,920
let's hope she's never released, because you know, I just

800
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,840
think people like that are pure evil. But yeah, so

801
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:04,840
I've never heard any stories it was demolished for that reason.

802
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,880
I mean, it's happened in the Victorian period. They would

803
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,079
rename streets, they did with a director ripper murder sites.

804
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:14,119
They would not place these down just to basically sort

805
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:17,440
of a raise that aspect, because you know, you'd have

806
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,199
sort of tourists going there. Shall we say he wanted

807
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,679
to sort of see where horrific murder or murders are

808
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,920
being committed. But I'm not aware of anyone's ever claimed

809
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,320
that that area is haunted. I must think that I

810
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,199
haven't really looked into it, you know, it's but yeah,

811
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,719
I can well understand though why locals would want the

812
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,559
house not down. But there again, there are other houses.

813
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:41,760
I think there was Nielsen. Was he called in in London?

814
00:45:42,559 --> 00:45:48,360
That's its Yeah, that's it. He's his house was never

815
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,159
knocked down. And funny enough, well it's not funny actually,

816
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,199
but in the eighties I used to go down. He

817
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,920
worked in a job center in London opposite, almost opposite

818
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:04,639
a book shop called Murder One, Oh God, which which

819
00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:06,400
I needs to go into. I needed to get books

820
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,760
on true crime. It was a very good shop and

821
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,599
you know, they had like novels and things. They had

822
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:13,360
Sherlock Holmes there, stuff on Jack the Ripper. But I

823
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,880
remember walking past there and actually walking past this guy

824
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,480
it's Nielsen, and I often wondered, you know, did he

825
00:46:21,519 --> 00:46:23,559
ever go in that shop and sort of you know,

826
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:26,079
have a rye grinn, you know, knowing that he was

827
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:27,880
doing the things as well, and that one day he

828
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,679
might be in there as a subject. But yeah, so

829
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,400
I actually walked past him once and I actually walked

830
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:39,480
past once as well, the Inswitch strangler who was used

831
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:41,679
to hang around in the town. I worked in its

832
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:43,679
which at the time when those murders were going on.

833
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,079
I can't remember the guy's name now, you know the

834
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:50,320
one I mean, though he not twenty years ago, wasn't it. Yeah, Yeah,

835
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,960
it wasn't Yeah, it was that long ago. But I

836
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,559
remember he used to use the same video shop as me.

837
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:57,719
You know. I used to add this video shop was legit.

838
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,400
It was second and films and stuff, and he was

839
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,800
a customer. And I asked the owner, I said, what

840
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,679
did he ever buy from you? Assuming he was going

841
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,960
to buy slasher films or documentaries about Jack Ripper, And

842
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,239
all he ever bought apparent he was nature documentaries. So

843
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,199
I've actually crossed pass with two serial killers, but fortunately

844
00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:19,559
I never ever spoke to them. Well, I mean that

845
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,400
makes you wonder that we must, you know, in an airport,

846
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,440
in a training station. I mean, obviously someone comes to

847
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,760
their untimely death, you know, and they're followed or whatever

848
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,039
might be, and there are potential killers out there, and

849
00:47:34,519 --> 00:47:39,079
in a sense they're probably creating these psychic fields, if

850
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:42,079
you think about it, they're creating these events that will

851
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:45,360
be viewed as paranormal ghost hauntings or something at some

852
00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:50,239
point later these cold case files where people pick up

853
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,360
on spirits and see through the eyes of the murderer,

854
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,440
that kind of sort of stuff. Have you ever gone

855
00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:58,679
to any seances or work with spiritualists, or gone to

856
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,719
mediums for anything like that. I've met the occasional medium

857
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,079
that's come up with stuff that's quite amazing that they

858
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:09,039
couldn't probably have known. My late aunt Doris used to

859
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:12,519
do the Ouiji board. I wouldn't recommend that, by the way,

860
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,239
because you never know what's coming through, but she was

861
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,159
a little bit addicted to that, and I went once

862
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,320
to a seance. I won't say where it was because

863
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,599
I was very skeptical. It was a science where they

864
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:31,840
moved things and grabbed you and played instruments, and I

865
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,400
was very very skeptical about that, you know, but I

866
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,639
wouldn't say where because obviously some of them might be watching.

867
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,199
But I was not impressed, shall we say so. I've

868
00:48:42,199 --> 00:48:44,559
met some people that have been impressed with, some that

869
00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:48,480
I've not been impressed with. Some are clearly cold reading.

870
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:52,360
You can pick that up quite easily. Others, as I said,

871
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,039
you know, picked up stuff that they couldn't have possibly known.

872
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,320
But I've been to the odd thing, odd seance and stuff,

873
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,000
but some have been impress but others haven't. So but

874
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:03,679
like I said, I don't want to name names and

875
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:06,400
I don't want to get sued. Well, I think you

876
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,079
should be suing them because I mean, I went to

877
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:11,920
a place in I've been to a few places where

878
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,239
they've had terrible, absolutely terrible sunces. And the thing is,

879
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:19,599
I do mediumship myself, so I'm not claiming to be

880
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:21,480
the world's best medium or anything like that, but I

881
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:26,760
do know that the phenomena works. I am not a

882
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,079
physical medium. I'm not going to make instruments fly or

883
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,079
play or anything like that, but I do know the

884
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:38,280
phenomenal works you. I mean, I've done readings on people

885
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,880
where I've been blindfolded, stood in a corner and I

886
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,199
had to have someone confirm a yes or no through

887
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:47,760
an intermediate you. So I never heard even the person's

888
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,639
voice that I was doing a reading on tell me

889
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,880
yes or no. It had to be done through a

890
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,960
second person who was then relaying it back to me,

891
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,239
and I was picking up more psychic information about them

892
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,559
rather than life after death information. So I was picking

893
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:03,679
up like their vehicle and the diet they'd been on,

894
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,559
and they'd had some work done to something or something

895
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:09,800
like that, or been on various things. So I do

896
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,679
know that it works, but I do also know that

897
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,639
there are lots of fakes out there. Definitely not so

898
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,239
much on the mental mediumship side. That's your Clair voice,

899
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,920
that's your Tony Stockwell's your calling fries and people. But

900
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,639
it's more when you're having the more spectacular mediumship demonstrations

901
00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:31,960
where it's called physical mediumship, and that's where, like you claim,

902
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,239
you thought they were trying to do instruments being played

903
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,840
and that kind of thing. Yeah, and I've attended things

904
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:44,159
where drums were being played and a little girl who

905
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,280
was from France was supposedly coming through. She sound like

906
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,440
a voice of the Tweenies. If you remember the tween

907
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:54,159
is the BBC Kids characters. That's what it sounds like.

908
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,920
So I thought it was an old man doing a voice.

909
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,679
You know, it could be the same one because I

910
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,880
went to this particular thing and it was supposed to

911
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,320
be a child and it was so obvious that the

912
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,360
medium was just trying to speak like a child. And

913
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,840
then you know they wouldn't have the lights on for

914
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,480
when the stuff was moving around, which you know, oh

915
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:18,280
that's convenient, But then they could put the lights on

916
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,039
when the door of the cabinet where this person was

917
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,639
placed would sort of push out and then in. And

918
00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:26,960
I was not impressed because I thought, well, look, if

919
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,679
they don't need the if they don't need the lights

920
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,119
on to do if you know that you can have

921
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:33,880
the lights on to do that, why couldn't they have

922
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,559
the lights on when the trumpets playing by itself? And

923
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,679
I just thought, you know, again, I won't name where

924
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:42,760
it is, but I just thought, how can people fall

925
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,840
for this stuff? Well, I wrote about it in my book.

926
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,480
If it's the same one, I'll say the name myself.

927
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:50,599
I don't mind. I don't mind because they can try

928
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:52,840
and sue me. But then they'll have a problem. They'd

929
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,760
have to prove their claims in court of what they

930
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,639
can do exactly, you see, I don't think they're likely

931
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,840
to do. But it was so I went to a

932
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,400
Christmas tree siance I think, or Christmas Sounds with a

933
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,199
guy called Bill Meadows I think. And he was an

934
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:12,880
Irish guy, Okay, very old Irish guy. Was a Christmas

935
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,199
tree siance taking place in Oxfordshire. I don't blame the

936
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,920
people that ran the place. I don't think they were

937
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,159
fully aware that they were also possibly being defrauded. But

938
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,840
you know, the presence would be thrown out during the darkness,

939
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,639
and it was supposedly from spirit children or something, and

940
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,199
that's what was the other thing that they That's right.

941
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:43,280
They had this French girl supposedly talking against the cabinet,

942
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,920
which was basically a curtain in front of a box,

943
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,760
and you could see what looked like a child's shape

944
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,840
that they could easily make that. I'm sure they're doing

945
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,519
this fake voice and things like that. And in fact,

946
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:57,119
I do remember talking to one guy who said he'd

947
00:52:57,159 --> 00:53:00,079
gone to a siance where this French spirit appeared and

948
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:04,000
they were talking, so he decided to speak back in French.

949
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,039
It' asked some questions in French and they suddenly had

950
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:11,079
to go back to the spirit world. But I bet

951
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:13,480
it reminds me if there's an adaptation of one of

952
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,480
the m R. James when his guy turns up and

953
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:19,760
his chaps possessed by a medieval monk and he starts

954
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,000
to speak Norman French and the monk doesn't know what

955
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:25,880
to say, and it's a we're surprising. You know, you'd

956
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,880
be able to speak that fluently if you forgotten how

957
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,039
to speak that in the Spirit War and the yeah

958
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,119
yeah Treasure Treasure of Abbot Thomas. If people want to

959
00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:36,840
watch it, it's on YouTube. It's very good, good adaptation.

960
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,039
Recommend it. Now you've you also write for Psychic News magazine,

961
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:44,639
which is where I say, do your articles. I do.

962
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:46,800
I'll hold one up for you. I'll just get it.

963
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,159
I was expecting that, so this is an old issue.

964
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:52,000
But I write every month for them, those stories, ones

965
00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:56,920
that have supposedly happened. Oh no, you go, yeah about

966
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,559
psychic dogs. So yeah, every month. The current one, I've

967
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:04,800
got an article on Pluckley in Kent, which is supposed

968
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,119
to be the most haunted village in England, and though

969
00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:10,360
other villages claim that they're the most haunted, but I

970
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,480
don't want to cause a scrap between them. I've been

971
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:16,039
writing for them now god for over ten years. Got

972
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:19,039
three ghostbooks out as I mentioned before, Britain's Haunted Land,

973
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:23,360
Britain's Ghostly Heritage and Britain's Haunted Heritage. And I've got

974
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,239
a book coming out on Poltergeist as well, hopefully this year,

975
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,159
and that's also being turned into a documentary which will

976
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:33,400
be directed by my friend and colleague Jason Figures. And

977
00:54:33,519 --> 00:54:36,559
I'm plugging myself now. I've also co written a documentary

978
00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:38,719
on Jack, the Ripper of a Jack called Mike Harley,

979
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,280
again directed by Jason Figures. We've got the Colin Wilson

980
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,559
series which we're hoping to get streaming and service to

981
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:47,719
take on, and that will cover the paranormal as well.

982
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,960
He's interested in that. So yeah, so I've been doing

983
00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:54,079
quite a lot. So I don't think that's a ghost,

984
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:56,320
by the way, when the light goes and I think

985
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,320
that's just the camera, could be a porter guyst though,

986
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:03,559
what do you think a poltergeist is? I mean, we

987
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,400
hear stories its angry ghosts, that's where the term comes

988
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,159
from in German noisy ghost or something. What do you

989
00:55:09,199 --> 00:55:14,280
think they are? Well, my book, I come to the

990
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,719
conclusion that they might be different things. So, I mean

991
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,480
the old the old theory was that it was psychic

992
00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:25,199
energy from a teenage girl entering puberty and it was

993
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,840
manifesting itself in various ways because they were frustrated because

994
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,880
of the onset of puberty. But I've come across cases

995
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,840
whereas affected boys, women entering the menopause, elderly men. So

996
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:40,320
I think and I used to think it was just

997
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,079
literally perhaps the psychic energy, and Colin Wilson used to

998
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:46,679
think this, but now I've come to the conclusion it's possibly,

999
00:55:48,039 --> 00:55:51,239
well possibly some sort of entity of spirit that latches

1000
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,119
on to this energy and then manifest itself. Now, whether

1001
00:55:56,199 --> 00:56:00,119
it's some sort of evil spirit that doesn't want to

1002
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,840
move on, there's another theory that it's actually that we're

1003
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:08,119
made up of different, different personalities, shall we say, and

1004
00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:10,880
that when we pass on, our higher self goes on

1005
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:16,320
moves on and our lower baser instincts break away and

1006
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,440
become a poltergeist. And that's what they call all this

1007
00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:24,679
mayhem and trouble. There are other theories that it's entities

1008
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:27,119
from another dimension. It's funny I'm talking about this and

1009
00:56:27,159 --> 00:56:30,719
in the screenkeeper in it. They could be just a coincidence.

1010
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:35,000
I hope it is, but entities from another dimension that

1011
00:56:35,079 --> 00:56:38,119
have come into ours. So I think there could be

1012
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:40,719
different explanations. I don't think it's something again you can

1013
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,079
pigeonhole and say, oh, yes, it's the psychic energy of

1014
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,079
a teenage girl. I think there's a lot more to

1015
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:48,920
it than that. But I'm quite psych with the idea

1016
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,159
that perhaps when we pass on the aspects of a personality,

1017
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,320
perhaps break away, as I said, the baser instincts and

1018
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,400
they sort of gradually fizzle out and trade away. But

1019
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,000
it's all one around and latch onto anything where they

1020
00:57:02,039 --> 00:57:04,559
can manifest themselves. How could be totally wrong, It could

1021
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:10,320
be something else, But it's a very interesting subject and

1022
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,559
I don't think we're going to ever get to the bottom.

1023
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,039
They've been talking about it for centuries. They manifest in

1024
00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:19,119
different ways, but I mean there's common kind of things

1025
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:21,239
that seem to connect a lot of them, which is

1026
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:27,440
like throwing of objects, are starting small fires. The stages

1027
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:30,639
they start off with you hear knocks and bangs, scratches,

1028
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,559
you think it's an animal in the wall. Then they

1029
00:57:34,679 --> 00:57:37,559
start to try to communicate, and first it's barks and

1030
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:42,559
growls and it's articulate. They latch onto a focused person.

1031
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:47,079
There's normally one person that they concentrate on. They perhaps

1032
00:57:47,199 --> 00:57:51,320
might speak through them. They start fires, they make allegations

1033
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,800
about things going on in the household, claim to be

1034
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,800
a murder victim, the devil, an angel or whatever. You know.

1035
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,320
They normally take on the go of whatever the person

1036
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,519
expects them to be. I've just written an article on

1037
00:58:04,119 --> 00:58:07,360
Jeff of talking mongoose poltergeist and that claimed to be

1038
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:10,639
an animal. But there again, the family thought originally it

1039
00:58:10,679 --> 00:58:12,440
was an animal, So did it just take on that

1040
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,719
guy as to please them and then eventually it'll fizzle

1041
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,159
out and move on or just you know, fade away.

1042
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,760
But there again there's exceptions to the rule. There's a

1043
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,960
place called Dagworth Hall in Suffolk which Alan Murdy, who's

1044
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:29,679
involved with the poltergeist the documentary that we're doing, came

1045
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:33,760
across and there was poltergeist activity reported in the medieval

1046
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,880
period and it was still being reported in the nineteen sixties.

1047
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,119
So again there's a period that somebody's poltergeist are place

1048
00:58:41,199 --> 00:58:45,679
centered and not people centered, and they're linked to lay lines,

1049
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:49,480
earth energies, things like that. And there's also poultergeist that

1050
00:58:49,519 --> 00:58:51,760
seemed to be connected to objects. So I've come across

1051
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,639
cases where there was a wardrobe where poltergeist activity only

1052
00:58:55,639 --> 00:59:00,199
occurred around that or a human skull. So again you

1053
00:59:00,239 --> 00:59:05,920
can't sort of pigeonhole this into into one particular category

1054
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,000
and say, posy guy said this, so it's a it's

1055
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:12,320
a puzzling subject. It's interesting you mentioned the wardrobe though

1056
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,119
the activity center around the wardrobe, because it seems to

1057
00:59:16,159 --> 00:59:21,119
me that's reminiscent of a medium's psychic medium's cabinet developed

1058
00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:25,280
a you know, sciance trance cabinet or physical mediums siance cabinet.

1059
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,159
Because I've in my research, is that a lot of

1060
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:31,519
ghosts that I've kind of well, it tends to be

1061
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:34,239
spirits rather than ghosts. In other words, people that have

1062
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,119
departed this world. They tend to be seen by the

1063
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:40,800
people that I've read about or talked to talk to.

1064
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,880
They tend to be seen in doorways or in window frames.

1065
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,000
And that kind of talied up a little bit once

1066
00:59:50,039 --> 00:59:52,840
I saw this documentary where this guy was in a

1067
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:55,280
one of the most haunted houses in Scotland and he

1068
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,639
was working on his computer and he said he felt

1069
00:59:57,679 --> 01:00:02,000
a presence watching him from the doorway behind him, and

1070
01:00:02,039 --> 01:00:04,960
they called in this sort of paranormal research team and

1071
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,880
they went in where they're little detectors of electromagnetic frequencies

1072
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,039
and stuff like that. They said there's a lot of

1073
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:15,159
electromagnetic energy in this building, but they said it's particularly

1074
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,440
very strong around this doorway, which was the doorway in

1075
01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:22,400
question behind the guy, and that even started making me think, hmm,

1076
01:00:22,599 --> 01:00:26,760
that's interesting. So my theory is, and again it extends

1077
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,239
into it the famish way that you know, don't move

1078
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,840
the building around because it will all disappear, is that

1079
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:37,280
these constructions of doorways help in some way focus the energy,

1080
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,840
rather like a spirit in a sunce cabinet will come

1081
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,760
out and walk about. It helps the energy condense and

1082
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,159
form in some way, whether it becomes a physical person,

1083
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:48,000
it might become a noise or a manifestation of some sort.

1084
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,320
And so you talked about that that cupboard there suggests

1085
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:58,320
that it could could have some kind of sort of connection.

1086
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:03,480
I think are you familiar to all with the Doddleston mystery.

1087
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,960
Oh that one, Yeah, I've heard you have refreshed with

1088
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:12,199
memory because this happened in about nineteen eighty four and

1089
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,559
it was this old cottage in the village of Dondalston.

1090
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:17,519
We're drawing to a close here, we've got about five

1091
01:01:17,519 --> 01:01:22,320
minutes left. It goes to chronicle. See, so it's a

1092
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,360
village in Dalston on the Welsh border, and this teacher

1093
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,760
borrowed an old bb well, so the early BBC micro

1094
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,679
computers at the time I remember now, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1095
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:35,320
the book came out about it, didn't the Yeah, from

1096
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,079
the Trudor period or something. Yeah, the guy from Tudor

1097
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:41,559
Times called Lucas who was communicating through this computer. But

1098
01:01:42,039 --> 01:01:45,800
initially that started off with poltergeist activity, cans of bait

1099
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,440
beans being snacked, now, noises upstairs, that kind of thing.

1100
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,159
But it manifested in a very unique way, which is

1101
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,960
communicating with his computer, which I thought was very interesting.

1102
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,320
And it referred he referred to some sort of strange

1103
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,920
box that he'd been given by someoney so line from

1104
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,400
the years. It's from the future, being from twenty thirty

1105
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,239
five or twenty one thirty five or something like that. Yeah,

1106
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,280
there was a documentary made about it on BBC. I

1107
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,199
think it's on YouTube. Actually, yes, so it is on YouTube. Yes,

1108
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,159
strange but true, or so that's strange but true. I think, yeah,

1109
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,320
that one I read the book called the vertical plane

1110
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,480
very interesting in and the people that are involved in it,

1111
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:25,559
they don't really like to talk about it too much.

1112
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:29,280
They're still around Ken Webster and his partner, but they're

1113
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,840
not out grabbing the limelight, but they still maintain it's true,

1114
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,400
which is interesting. So as we draw for a close, now,

1115
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440
if you wanted to tell us about your books, and

1116
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,320
if people want to contact you via website, how they

1117
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,800
can do that and things. Yes, yeah, it's John Westmedia

1118
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,119
dot com. My book's Britain's Haunted Land, Britain's Ghostly Heritage,

1119
01:02:48,119 --> 01:02:51,519
Britain's Haunted Heritage. You're available from the publisher's website Joam

1120
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:55,920
d Media. They are on Amazon. Psychic News is available

1121
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,880
in most good newsagents, wh Smith's like that, things place

1122
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:05,079
like that. I'm also doing this a TV pilot, The

1123
01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:08,639
Ghost Chronicles, with Jason Figus and an Australian paranormal team.

1124
01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:11,119
I've written the names down as I don't forget Dan Rickard,

1125
01:03:11,159 --> 01:03:14,679
Beat Casalletto and Angelo Accardi, and we're going to York

1126
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,840
to film this. We're going to look into several haunted

1127
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:22,480
locations and it will be premiered by Ghost Flicks TV

1128
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,239
in Germany and hopefully it will be a series leading

1129
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:30,079
on from that. I suggested using York because it's supposed

1130
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:32,400
to be the most haunted city after London to one

1131
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,119
hundred and forty ghosts at the last count, and we

1132
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:39,360
will be going to Marsden Moore, which is outside of York,

1133
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,440
but that's a haunted battlefield, and we were looking at

1134
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,000
the Golden Fleece Pub and hopefully some other haunted locations,

1135
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:48,519
including hopefully the Roman Bath. We can't get into the

1136
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:50,800
Treasurer's house because the seller's closed at the moment because

1137
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,920
of asbestos. We won't be able to investigate that one.

1138
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,320
But so that will be coming out and say they're

1139
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:02,400
Australia's top paranormal team. Angela was involved with an organization

1140
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,360
called Spirit for Australia and Dan and Pete were with

1141
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,039
a Night Watchers paranormal so they're very well respected. And

1142
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:12,760
obviously Jason Figures the director is very well respected. I've

1143
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,519
worked with him before and we're hoping it's going to

1144
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:18,719
be sort of well received. It's not going to be

1145
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,719
like some of these other ghost UNEs in shows where

1146
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,960
we're running around screaming at every bang and using wieze

1147
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:27,320
bars to conjure up god knows what. We didn't really

1148
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,199
want to go down that route. I think it's been

1149
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,480
overdone show. So yes, yeah, okay, that's brilliant. So when's

1150
01:04:33,519 --> 01:04:35,639
the first series of anything going to come on too,

1151
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:39,159
Amazon or Netflix that we can look out for. Well,

1152
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:42,239
the Ghost Chronicles will be filmed in September, so hopefully.

1153
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,119
I mean obviously Joson's got who Edits It? But that

1154
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:47,440
will be premiered on Ghost Flicks and then hopefully on

1155
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,920
other streaming services that ended this year, beginning and next.

1156
01:04:51,679 --> 01:04:54,519
The poltic Ice is going to be director made this year,

1157
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:56,920
so again that will be next year before it's out.

1158
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,800
Same with the Jack the Ripper and the Colin Wilson's

1159
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:04,239
I'm chatting with streamers now, so hopefully these will be

1160
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,039
out the end of this year, beginning, beginning and next.

1161
01:05:07,079 --> 01:05:11,280
I've also written the documentary on Bram Stoker called Father

1162
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,719
of Dracula, which again will be made this year, but

1163
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:15,920
that will be out next year. And that's just about

1164
01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:18,559
his life and how he was inspired to write Dracker

1165
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:22,639
and I look into the folkalur surrounding vampirism and Daker

1166
01:05:22,719 --> 01:05:25,559
Stoker that he's sending the Bram Stoker applied me with

1167
01:05:25,639 --> 01:05:28,000
a lot of material which was a great help. So

1168
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,239
so yeah, I've been keeping busy, but wow, wow, good stuff.

1169
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,400
All right, well, thank you very much indeed for your time,

1170
01:05:34,519 --> 01:05:39,960
John West, Ghost, extraordinary researcher, and all the other things

1171
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,960
you've been watching the Paranormal peep Show and the Paranormal

1172
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:46,840
UK Radio Network, and stay tuned for further programs in

1173
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:51,440
the network and she'll see you next month. Good night, goodbye.

1174
01:06:00,039 --> 01:06:09,559
They do not comped with put nothing and water acted

1175
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:15,400
at basing and contained