WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.120 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:07.160 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to begin taking 3 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.880 a look at the Bill Gates transcript, and we're going 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.800 to pick up right at the start with Bill Gates 5 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:20.120 giving his opening statement after he was sworn in. Mister Gates, 6 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:24.640 mister chairman, ranking member members of the Committee, thank you 7 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:28.000 for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm here 8 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.320 to answer your questions about my interactions with Jeffrey Epstein 9 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.840 and to help contribute to the Committee's important work. I 10 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:38.600 support the release of all the Epstein files and sincerely 11 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.759 hope that, through your efforts and those of others advocating 12 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:46.560 on their behalf, the survivors of Epstein's crimes, Epstein's crimes 13 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:50.399 can get the justice that they deserve. At the outset, 14 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.520 I want to state very clearly, I never witnessed, nor 15 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:57.759 had any indication that Epstein was engaged in ongoing criminal conduct. 16 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:01.520 I never went to his island or his Florida home. 17 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.040 I have never victimized anyone. While he may have sought 18 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:09.000 the foster a personal relationship, I was never interested in 19 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:13.040 that and never reciprocated. I was introduced to Epstein in 20 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.640 twenty eleven, through people I trusted in my professional and 21 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.239 philanthropic work, Epstein claimed that he could raise billions of 22 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:24.480 dollars for global health from people for whom he provided 23 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:28.439 tax and estate services. I recall being aware that Epstein 24 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.760 had faced prior to legal issues, but I did not 25 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:33.719 fully understand the extent of the crimes that he committed. 26 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.319 I accepted the introduction without applying the scrutiny I should have. 27 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.280 For almost two decades, my full time focus has been 28 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:46.239 global health and education. I've been guided by the belief 29 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.519 that all lives have equal value, and every child should 30 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.879 have the chance to live a healthy life, no matter 31 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.359 where they were born. I have committed all my resources 32 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:58.079 and my time to this effort, but my wealth alone 33 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:01.680 cannot fill the enormous funding gap that remains. This is 34 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:05.400 why trying to encourage others of significant means to invest 35 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.879 in global health has become such an important element of 36 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.159 my work. My interactions with Epstein began with a limited 37 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:16.840 number of preliminary meetings, three in twenty eleven and two 38 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:20.080 in twenty twelve, during which I talked about my goals 39 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:24.759 of my work. We began more extensive conversations in twenty 40 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:29.960 thirteen and twenty fourteen. The discussions focused on identifying potential 41 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.319 giving structures such as donor advice funds and how to 42 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:38.479 enroll individuals he claimed more interested in making significant contributions. 43 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:41.240 I made it clear to Epstein from the outset that 44 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.319 he would never play a role in any of the 45 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:49.039 work or receive any compensation. In twenty fourteen, after Epstein 46 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.479 brought together a group he described as potential donors, I 47 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:56.199 realized that our prior discussions, which should have translated into 48 00:02:56.280 --> 00:03:00.319 meaningful philanthropic support, were a dead end. It was clear 49 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.560 that no one in the group was interested enough to 50 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:06.000 move forward. At that point, I concluded Epstein would never 51 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:09.639 deliver on his promises. I told him we would go 52 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:13.400 no further and stop communicating or meeting with them. No 53 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.719 vehicle for charitable giving was ever created, and no funds 54 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:21.360 were ever raised. Our interactions ended in December of twenty fourteen, 55 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.280 four years before new reports in the press and unsealed 56 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.919 court documents shed additional light on the extent of his crimes. 57 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:32.479 It was during the same time period that an employee 58 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:35.639 was in the process of transitioning out of my private office. 59 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:39.599 This employee engaged Epstein to negotiate and advise them on 60 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.759 the terms of the separation. I did not ask, nor 61 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:45.400 did I want or need Epstein to be involved in 62 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.080 this matter. His involvement resulted in email exchanges, calls, and 63 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.360 meetings with members of my team and me. However, the 64 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.000 agreement we ultimately reached was not any different from what 65 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.879 was previously agreed upon months in advance of Epstein in 66 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.479 axserting himself. It was after this that I learned Epstein 67 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.240 had become aware of sensitive information about my personal life, 68 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:11.319 including the fact that I had been unfaithful in my marriage. 69 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:15.439 These affairs had nothing to do with my interactions with Epstein, 70 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.240 but they were painful for my family. As the public 71 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:21.480 can now see based on what has been released in 72 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.639 the files, Epstein was working to use information about my infidelities, 73 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.439 in addition to many lives that he layered on top 74 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.000 to pressure me to re engage with them. He was 75 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.040 unsuccessful in this effort, but it shows some of the 76 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.720 ways he tried to leverage his interactions with me to 77 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.160 further his agenda. I should have never met with Epstein 78 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:43.560 in the first place. Based on what I know now, 79 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.680 I understand that even if he had delivered the donors 80 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.759 he promised, I would not have justified associating with them. 81 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:52.360 I see now that he sought to build an image 82 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:57.160 of legitimacy around himself, using connections to reputable and powerful 83 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:01.759 people to deflect scrutiny and attempt to rehabilitate his reputation. 84 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.360 I was so focused on the possibility of raising funds 85 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:09.079 for global health that I allowed that goal to override 86 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.920 my better judgment. That is a sobering realization, and it 87 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.800 has reinforced for me the importance of being more attentive 88 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:20.160 to how access and reputation can be manipulated by people 89 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:23.240 acting in bad faith. In the work that I do, 90 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.319 reputation is the basis for developing partnerships that save lives. 91 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.360 Meeting with Epstein was a grave error in judgment, and 92 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:35.959 it put this work at risk. His behavior antithetical to 93 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.879 all my efforts to contribute to a world where everyone 94 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.839 has a chance to live a healthy and productive life. 95 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.279 If the time I spent with Epstein lent them credibility, 96 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:49.720 I am deeply sorry. I've learned a significant lesson and 97 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.959 am now far more careful about who I engage with. 98 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:57.040 Even in a limited capacity. I look forward to answering 99 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.399 all your questions about my interaction with Epstein and the 100 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.639 topics identified in the Chairman's invitation to appear today. The 101 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.720 committee's work is essential. It's my sincere hope that those 102 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:12.920 harm by Epstein's crimes will receive the justice that they deserve. 103 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.000 Thank you, mister Spector. Thank you, mister Gates. We've had 104 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.920 a couple of extra members join, starting with the majority, 105 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.800 Can you please introduce yourself for the record, Lauren Bobert, 106 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:30.240 Eric Burlison, Congressman Steve Lynch, eighth Congressional District of Massachusetts. 107 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.480 Mister Spector, thank you. The time reads ten fifteen, and 108 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:40.079 the Majority's time will begin now. Mister Spector, still asking 109 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.240 the questions, mister Gates, I want to thank you again 110 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.920 for coming here voluntarily to answer our questions today. I 111 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:49.839 want to start by very very briefly discussing your background. 112 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:52.279 I know, of course, you've had a very long and 113 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:55.800 very very successful career. Can you provide the committee with 114 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.199 a brief summary of your career up until now? Answer? Yeah. 115 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.439 I was born in nineteen fifty five. I went to 116 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:06.079 high school in Seattle, graduated, I attended Harvard College for 117 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.839 a few years, but did not complete a degree. I 118 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.600 founded Microsoft in seventy five. I stayed as CEO of 119 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.079 Microsoft through the year two thousand. I stayed as Chief 120 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:19.240 Technical Advisor through two thousand and eight, so two thousand 121 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.000 and eight, and in my full time work at Microsoft, 122 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.959 overlapping that, I created the Gates Foundation in the year 123 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:28.360 of two thousand, so I gave a substantial gift of 124 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.399 Microsoft stock in the year of two thousand and so 125 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.199 between two thousand and two thousand and eight, I was 126 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.279 a full time Microsoft, part time Gates Foundation. Two thousand 127 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.920 and eight, I ceased my full time work at Microsoft 128 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.959 and began full time as chairman of the Gates Foundation. 129 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.040 And since two thousand and eight that's been my primary effort. 130 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.560 I still give some advice to Microsoft. I have some 131 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:55.199 energy innovation work under the term Breakthrough Energy, but my 132 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.720 full time work is the work of the Gates Foundation, 133 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:03.639 which involves areas like education, global health, agriculture, financial services, 134 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:07.040 and so that's my primary work today. I turned seventy 135 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:10.519 last year. Question thank you, And to be clear, do 136 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.399 you hold any official position at any of your other 137 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.759 Do you currently hold any positions at any of your 138 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:21.040 other ventures besides the Gates Foundation. Answer. Yeah, I have 139 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:24.399 some title with Breakthrough Energy. I'm not sure what that is. 140 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.399 I have an entity called Gates Ventures that is my 141 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:31.120 private office, and I have a group that manages investments 142 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.120 on my behalf and the foundation's trust behalf called Cascade. 143 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.559 So I think that's all of my official roles. Question. 144 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.000 Thank you, and we'll get to more, of course, into 145 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.159 your interactions with mister Epstein a little bit later. But 146 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.799 just to be clear for the record, your opening statement 147 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.480 indicated that your relationship with them, your interactions with them, 148 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.799 occurred between twenty eleven and twenty fourteen, late twenty fourteen. 149 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.480 Is that right answer? That's right question. So for the 150 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.320 entire day of that time, your primary role was at 151 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:05.879 the Gates Foundation. Is that right answer? Yeah? I mean 152 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:07.679 I was doing the whole mix of things I do, 153 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.399 but yes, at all times since two thousand and eight, 154 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.120 that's been my primary role. Question and you were not. 155 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:16.440 You didn't have a formal job at Microsoft during that 156 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.840 time that you knew, mister Epstein. Is that right answer? 157 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:23.519 No question, And at this point philanthropy is your full 158 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.600 time endeavor? Is that right answer? That's right? For some 159 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.840 of the energy innovation work, I use private investment vehicles, 160 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.960 and even the foundation itself often uses investments as part 161 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.159 of its overall strategy. But the work, the aim of 162 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.360 the work is philanthropic. Question. Thank you, and again, we'll 163 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:43.480 get deeper into this a little bit later, but I 164 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.759 just want to do a high level lynch. We can 165 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.240 hear the question, we can hear the answer, we can't 166 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.200 hear the questions at all. Thank you, mister Emmer. We've 167 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.399 had another member join. Can they please announce themselves for 168 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:03.080 the record. William Timmins, South Carolina fourth Congressitional District. Question, 169 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.039 mister Gates, when did you first meet mister Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? 170 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.440 It was January twenty eleven that I had dinner with them. 171 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.519 Question and was that at mister Epstein's home? Answer? His 172 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:17.759 home in New York. Yes. Question, can you describe the 173 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:22.039 circumstances that led you to attending that dinner? Answer? Doctor Nikolicch, 174 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.639 who worked for me, said that since I was out 175 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:26.879 in New York, I might be interested in having dinner 176 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.360 with them, and so that got scheduled. Question He said 177 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.759 you might be interested in it. Did he say why 178 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.960 you might be interested in it. Answer, he probably gave 179 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.519 me a brief description that about Epstein. Question do you 180 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:43.519 recall what that description entailed? Answer? No, I don't. Question 181 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.159 What did you discuss in your first interaction with mister Epstein? Answer? 182 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.399 You know, it was a dinner that I would have 183 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:53.120 talked about what I was doing. He would have mentioned 184 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.519 a number of scientists and people that he spent time 185 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.399 talking to. You know, it was kind of an introductory dinner, 186 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:01.960 and I don't remember all the specific question, so he 187 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:03.919 was sort of giving you an outline of the powerful 188 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.879 people that he knew. Is that what you mean by 189 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:10.480 that answer? More intellectual you know, professors or science people, 190 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:13.279 as well as some business leaders. I don't know if 191 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.600 it was that night or some other time, but he 192 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.320 did talk about that he provided advice to lots of billionaires. 193 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.759 Question do you recall any specific names that he mentioned 194 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:27.519 to you? Answer not at the time. You know, he 195 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.960 talked about Wall Street billionaires, he talked about Middle East billionaires. 196 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:34.320 He made it sound very extensive. Question did you get 197 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.279 the sense that he was offering you some kind of service? Answer? No. 198 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.080 Question Why do you think he was telling you about 199 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:43.159 the people that he worked with? Answer? Maybe for me 200 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:44.919 to have a good impression of them. You know, at 201 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.000 some point, I don't think that first night, the idea 202 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.240 that some of those people might give money to Global 203 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.360 Health came up. Question I know you said you don't 204 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:57.000 recall exactly the description that doctor Nikolach gave you about 205 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:00.320 mister Epstein. But do you recall, if anything, you knew 206 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:02.639 about mister Epstein in general before you met him the 207 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:05.440 first time? Answer? I was aware that he had a 208 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:09.960 criminal conviction. Question how were you aware of that? Answer? 209 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.240 I'm not sure either I looked it up or somebody 210 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:16.159 told me. Question did doctor Nikolicche tell you that? Answer? 211 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.840 I'm not sure. Question do you recall knowing at the 212 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.600 time what the criminal conviction was for? Answer? I knew 213 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.679 that it had to do with the sexual nature, But no, 214 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.360 I don't think I knew dug into the specifics, although 215 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.919 I probably should have. Question would you normally look into 216 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.200 people's backgrounds before you meet with them? Was this an 217 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.480 uncommon way of handling it? Answer? I don't have a 218 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:42.440 formal process for people I meet. Question did you ask 219 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.559 mister Epstein about the conviction at any time? Answer? I 220 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.039 did not bring it up during the dinner. Answer and 221 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.240 he didn't bring it up either. Answer no, question, did 222 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.480 anyone ever raise concerns to you about mister Epstein with 223 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.120 regard to that conviction or anything else in twenty eleven? 224 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:01.440 Answer well, throughout the time I spent with Epstein, the 225 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:05.240 concern about his reputation was voiced by me and other people. 226 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.559 So there was an awareness that he had a bad 227 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:12.039 reputation stemming from his criminal conviction. Question, and you're saying 228 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:15.320 that you were aware of these concerns early on. Were 229 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:19.159 you describing conversations that occurred later in your relationship with 230 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:23.639 mister Epstein. Answer I'd say both. Question, So you were 231 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.519 aware that he had a bad reputation and he had 232 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:28.720 some sort of sex related conviction at the time you 233 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:34.320 first entered into contact with him. Answer that's right. All right, folks, 234 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:36.039 We're going to wrap up right here, and in the 235 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.080 next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick 236 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.080 up where we left off. All the information that goes 237 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.720 with this episode can be found in the description box. 238 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.279 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 239 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:51.679 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up 240 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:55.080 where he left off with Bill Gates and the transcript 241 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.639 from his interview with Congress. Question what were your first 242 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.480 impress of mister Ebstein? Answer, Well, he talked about a 243 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.039 lot of scientists that he would talk to, were business 244 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.759 leaders he would talk to, and he made that sound 245 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.879 fairly extensive, you know, across a wide range of topics, 246 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.480 somebody who focuses time on a large number of subjects 247 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.039 and new people who were deeply engaged in those areas. Questions, 248 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.840 So he made a good impression. Answer, you know, he's 249 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.399 kind of a unique person. You know, based on the 250 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.759 limited knowledge I have had at the time, it was 251 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:30.879 kind of a unique thing to have this large house 252 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.960 in Manhattan and to mention quite a wide range of 253 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.480 people from both business and academic areas. I would say, 254 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.879 you know, I thought that was unusual. Question who else 255 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.000 was with you at this first dinner you had with 256 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.879 mister Epstein in twenty eleven? Answer for dinner itself, just 257 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.960 doctor Nikolich? Question were other people traveling with you for that? 258 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.159 Is that what you meant? Answer? No questions who at 259 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:57.639 the dinner you were with doctor Nikolich, mister Ebstein and 260 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.879 nobody else was at the dinner? Is that right? Answer? 261 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.399 That's right? Question? And did you understand his job or 262 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.480 career to be when you met with him. Answer, I'm 263 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.320 not sure if it was at night, but over time 264 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.799 he suggested that he provided tax advice and advice on wills, 265 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.559 and a wide variety of people, both from Wall Street, 266 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.120 from the Middle East. You know that he was in 267 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.519 a position of trust with a number of wealthy people. 268 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.240 Question and you said you didn't get the sense he 269 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.720 was offering you any kind of service. So he wasn't 270 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.679 offering you the tax or estate services of any kind. 271 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.000 Answer No, There came a time later when he brought 272 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:35.679 it up, you know he could help on taxes, and 273 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.279 I rather sternly rebuff the effort. Question sure, and we 274 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.440 can get more into that a bit later. So at 275 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.600 this point, meeting him for the first time in twenty eleven, 276 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.279 did you understand him to already be wealthy at that point? Answer? Well, certainly, 277 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.039 you know, just the house alone represented a significant amount 278 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.840 of wealth. I'd never seen. I don't think to this 279 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.480 day I've seen a private house in Manhattan that's quite 280 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.879 that spacious. Yes. Question did you have any idea at 281 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.000 the time how he acquired his money? Answer? No, to 282 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.159 this day I find it a bit confusing question. And 283 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.200 again we'll get a bit deeper into your interactions with 284 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.679 mister Epstein later, but just for now, could you briefly 285 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.960 characterize the nature of the relationship that you had with 286 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.120 mister Epstein between twenty eleven and twenty fourteen. Was he 287 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:27.440 a friend? Was he a business associate? Answer? No, he 288 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:30.039 certainly wasn't a friend. You know, he made an effort 289 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.279 to extend the relationship with various invitations, but you know, eventually, 290 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.799 you know, as I talked about my work in global 291 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.320 health for the Gates Foundation, he suggested that he could 292 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:43.279 raise substantial amounts of money from people that he knew 293 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.159 to help with that endeavor, and he became the primary 294 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.720 focus out in twenty thirteen, twenty eleven, we just had 295 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.559 you know, two dinners, one where it was with Jess 296 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.120 Daily and Larry Summers, one where he was just dropping by. So, 297 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.639 you know, three encounters in twenty eleven, and then over 298 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.879 a year passes, and I see him twice in late 299 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.759 twenty twelve, and then it's I think spring twenty thirteen 300 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.200 where this purported availability of people who then they would 301 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.720 sit and talk about their wills, their taxes that as 302 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.400 part of the process, they would realize they had significant 303 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.279 amount of access money and hopefully they would want to 304 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.720 give that philanthropically, and hopefully they would consider giving that 305 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.880 to global health. So that became the focus in spring 306 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.839 of twenty thirteen. Question, so you said he would give 307 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:36.799 invitations for things. Were these social functions or philanthropic or otherwise? Answer? No, 308 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.440 they weren't social. I mean, there was one time at 309 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.079 the end of a dinner David Blaine came and so 310 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.400 that was a lighter thing. He's a magician. But the 311 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.119 meetings they were always about the world and you know 312 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.640 what was going on. Obviously when somebody like Larry Summers 313 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.720 or Jess Daley is there, they're talking about what they 314 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:56.759 see in the world, what they expect. So it's a 315 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:01.039 wide ranging discussion. Question So did you ever socialized with 316 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.079 Jeffrey Epstein? Answer no, I would not say I was 317 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.599 socializing with him. I was at a dinner where a 318 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.119 wide range of serious topics came up. When he, for example, 319 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.319 invited me to come to his island, that would have 320 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.559 been socializing and I didn't do that. You know, one 321 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.519 time in Paris he asked me to go to a 322 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.759 show and I said that would not be a good idea. 323 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.759 I chose not to do that. Question So he did 324 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.160 invite you to a couple of social functions and you 325 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.480 just rejected him. Answer? He did many things to try 326 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:34.279 to deepen the relationship, including various invitations. Question did you 327 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.960 ever discuss sexual behavior of any kind with Jeffrey Epstein? 328 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.640 Answer no. Question. Did you ever witness Jeffrey Epstein engaging 329 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:47.680 in sexual contact of any kind? Answer no. Question Did 330 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.640 you ever witness Epstein receive a massage from a young 331 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:55.359 woman or a girl? Answer no. Question Whether often young 332 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.960 women or girls at the places where you would meet 333 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.920 with Epstein? Answer no. The only time anyone who I'd 334 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.720 call a girl was around after that first dinner, Eva 335 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.480 Dubin came and she had her daughter with her. Other 336 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.759 than that, there were no young women at any other 337 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.880 times I saw with Epstein. Questions, So none of Epstein's employees, 338 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.599 we understand, were younger women. Did you ever meet any 339 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.240 of those people? Answer? I was not introduced to them, 340 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.359 but you know, like when you go to the New 341 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.119 York thing, I think they opened the door. Jeffrey Mister 342 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.240 Epstein had what appeared to be administrative assistants with them, 343 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.920 and the extent of my contact with them was that, 344 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.079 you know, they were there as I would go into 345 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.240 the meeting. They never attended any meeting that I was in. 346 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:42.400 There were several occasions where mister Ebstein asked me to 347 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:44.799 be photographed with them at the end of the meeting. 348 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.759 I was not introduced to them as part of that. 349 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.960 That was quite brief. One of the admins stayed when 350 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.519 David Blaine did one of his tricks, so she was 351 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.480 standing around then. And there was also a time when 352 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:58.720 I took a flight from Newark to Palm Beach and 353 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.680 Jeffrey had two admins assistance with them who sat in 354 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.880 the front cabin. But so I saw them as I 355 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.680 walked onto the plane, and as I walked off the plane. 356 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.279 So to the other admins that were around, you know, 357 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.599 who appeared to be women, I believe they did not 358 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.640 look to be underage. I think I fully described any 359 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:20.480 contact with women around Epstein. Question thank you, did you 360 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.039 ever engage in sexual contact of any kind in the 361 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:27.200 presence of Jeffrey Epstein? Answer no, question. Did you ever 362 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.680 engage in sexual contact with a person introduced to you 363 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:36.119 by or affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer no question did 364 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:39.640 Jeffrey Epstein or any of his associates ever offer you 365 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.160 a young woman or a girl for the purpose of sex? 366 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:46.599 Answer no question. Did you ever receive a massage that 367 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.359 was arranged by Jeffrey Epstein or any of his staff 368 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:53.480 or associates, answer no question. We already discussed that you 369 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.079 were aware that he had been convicted of his sex crime. 370 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.559 But to be clear, at the time, were you aware 371 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:02.960 that he was a registered sex offender? Answer? I was not. Question. 372 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.680 Do you recall when you first learned that he was 373 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.720 a registered sex offender? Answer? You know it's really twenty eighteen, 374 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.920 one of Miami newspapers described the sort of extensive and 375 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.400 horrific details of what he had done before his two 376 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.920 thousand and eight two thousand and nine conviction. That I 377 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.559 became aware of the extent of his crimes, and I 378 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.640 believe that's when I first knew that he actually registered 379 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.240 as a sex offender. Question. And so you ended your 380 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.759 relationship with mister Epstein in late twenty fourteen, as you've 381 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.160 mentioned today, and you just said that you learned he 382 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.519 was a sex offender and more of the extent of 383 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.799 his crimes in twenty eighteen. To be clear. Did you 384 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.799 have any interaction with mister Apstein after twenty fourteen? Answer 385 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.680 I did not. Question Did you have any communication with 386 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.440 mister Epstein directly or through an intermediary during that time? 387 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.640 Answer yeah, right after twenty fourteen. There was an email 388 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.920 sent to me. After twenty fourteen, he sent me quite 389 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.400 a bit of emails. The majority of emails that he 390 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.200 sent to me actually were after I'd cut off all contact. 391 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.480 Most of those I did not read, but in the 392 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.480 early period there was some that I did read. One 393 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.759 of those sought reimbursement for what he purported was expenses 394 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.519 that he paid with a woman who he became aware 395 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.880 of was a woman who I had an affair with, 396 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.359 and I communicated to my key person, top person at 397 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.559 Gates Ventures, Larry Cohen, that we were never going to 398 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.359 pay anything. And so in that sense, I did have 399 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.000 direct communication or indirect communication with them, and I think 400 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:36.240 that was in the months after I cut off direct contact. Question. Okay, 401 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.400