Speaker 1: What is up, fella, Siko's I Am Dana Valley coming
at you with a mega crossover episode of Hardwood Knox
Times the NBA Podcast. We have the certified fantabulous mister
Grant Hughes. We have the equally certified fantabulous mister Mort Gentsen.
We're here to talk about absolutely nothing because nothing's happened
over the NBA in the past couple of days. But
we've both both our shows have done Luka Doncic, Lakers
Mavericks content already. We're here to talk Zach Lavine to
the Kings, Deanon Fox to the Spurs, and contracts that
other teams did not want to the bulls. Uh guests
first or more, how are you doing before we dive
into this, Well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Doing I'm doing a little bit better after Paris, I
got hit hard and now the whole family's down for
the count. But it's it's Uh. Look, when you get
hit with a Luca Dantage train out of nowhere, which
is followed up by d'aron Fox, sac Lavine and everything,
your entire health is like, Okay, fuck it, Let's get
back on track because we need to be rolling with
this one. So thank you to the NBA for forcing
me into a sixteen hour work day yesterday. It got
all the juices flowing in all the right ways.
Speaker 1: I felt the same way, except then I'll sit back
and remember being like I could be doing something that's
actually difficult or matters in life, and then I feel
less bad, like I'm not doing manual labor for eighteen hours. Grant,
you were doing manual labor, I believe, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to decide if I need to get
out my old Kevin Durant Warriors jersey or buy lebron one.
What are the customers cost? I don't know. It sounds
like you should get both, see right, is that mathematically possible?
We'll see. Yeah, No, I'm doing well. This is I'm
excited to talk about this trade because it might make
more sense than the one we've all spent a lot
of time trying to parse and coming to know logical
conclusions about.
Speaker 1: So I will begin with the details, and then let's
go alphabetically.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 1: We'll start with the bulls for the full trade details,
though for anyone who's potentially living under a rock and
has not seen them yet, but in the three team trade.
The Chicago Bulls are receiving Zach Collins, Kevin Herder, Trey Jones,
and their own twenty twenty five first round pick. It
was owed to San Antonio with top ten protection and
then top eight for the following two years. They just
now got it back outright. The Kings receive City Sosoco,
Zach Lavine, Charlott's twenty twenty five first but it's actually
going to be two seconds in twenty twenty six. In
twenty twenty seven, they will get Chicago's second round pick
this year, san Antonio's twenty twenty seven first round pick unprotected,
Denver's twenty twenty eight second round pick with top thirty
three protection that comes from San Antonio, a twenty twenty
eight second round pick its own that came via Chicago,
and then they get Minnesota's twenty thirty one first round
pick from San Antonio. The Spurs received Aaron Fox and
the big name we all want to talk about, Jordan McLaughlin.
Mort I will start with you from this is just
a lot happening. I found it funny that the King's
thought maybe they could sneak in some business under the
LUKA Doncic to the Lakers wave, But what did you
make of this for Chicago specifically?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, they didn't get a whole lot back,
and I'm still flabbergasted at where Levine's value ended up being,
because he is genuinely good. I think the NBA atmosphere,
the NBA's sphere at large, has just grown way too
negative about him. So I'm sort of like in that
place where I'm understanding of the fact that the Bulls
just didn't have a lot of maneuverability with him, like
that's just how the market kind of shugged out. But
at the same time, I'm looking at Sack Lavine, you know,
one of the arguably the second best shooting guard in
Bull's history, one of the most efficient, high scoring guards
over the past what seven years, who went for a
bag of peanuts, And you just that's unacceptable. And you
can sit there and say, well, the market shuck out
the way it did, I don't care. If you are
a front office. It's your job to get bang for
the buck in whatever capacity you need to do so.
So I gave them a D minus over at Jahoo Sports.
I think what they got back was just a bunch
of bs, and I have this thing for you. This
is courtesy of Eliash Schuster, who basically collected everything over
the past couple of years, and he said here, the
Bulls have traded Demarta Rosen, Saclovine and Alex Carusoe, four,
Josh Gitty, Kevin Herder, Zack Collins, Trey Jones, Chris Duarte
two second round picks and writes to their own twenty
twenty five first round draft pick back. That means not
a single, not a single additional first round draft pick
was acquired for Demarta Rosen, Saclovine and Alex Caruso. It's malpractice,
but that's just part of the norm for the Bulls.
I mean, it's I understand that they're trying to save money.
I think and get worse like, oh, we'll play the lottery,
but then go full out, like if you if that's
your plan, then it's again, it's unacceptable you didn't get
more for Alex Crusoe back in the day. Unacceptable that
you can't squeeze out more assets when you have a
beneficial situation. It's like, Dan, you've died and talked about
this before. Kobe White should be traded right now. Because
his trade value is only going to decline moving further.
I mean, look, right now, his value before the trade
online is going to be higher than this summer because
teams trading for him or even Iodo Sumo as well,
will have two playoff rounds or two playoff years instead
of one. So I'm hoping they're not done. I'm hoping
that they somehow salvage this by trading Kobe White Iodo
Sumo for a ton of draft equity because they need to.
I understand going all in for Cooper Flag. Sure, that's
still gamble, like you need to have more bites at
the apple.
Speaker 1: How you feeling, mister Hughes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mostly agree. I just wonder, so would would
you guys agree that that bull's own twenty five first
that came back is the quote unquote crown jewel of
the return here. I mean unless you consider just not
paying Zach Lavine to be the main driver of this,
which fine, congratulations, you took on thirty six million in
salary next year in the contracts you took back to
so that's ten million there.
Speaker 1: They're going to get a trade exception from Kevin Hurt.
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, the trade maybe that's the crown jewel. In
keeping with what mort said and what we've discussed plenty,
Dan is like, yeah, this, this can't just be the
Bulls plans going into this deadline. Should not, and better
not just be move Levine, especially if the goal is
to maximize the value of this first round or you
got back because the protections on it were such that
had you just traded, you don't even need to trade
Levine right now, is my point. Trade Kobe White, trade Vucevic.
Levine gets a you know, back soreness, and you tank
hard enough to maximize the value of the pick that's
got top ten protection that you're keeping. Anyway you readdress
trading Levine in the off season or down the road.
I think the only way the Bulls can defend this
is to say that Levine's value was not going to
get higher than it is right now. I don't agree
with that. I just think that there's and if and
if that is true, then I still think you just
it just doesn't justify what they got back. So I
don't know what letter grade i'd give it. It's certainly
a below average one. I just I don't I can't
get past the idea that this pick is what the
bulls seem to want, and there was a way for
them to essentially keep it, perhaps indefinitely, if you really
wanted to steer into the skid for multiple years, which
is what they should do anyway. So I don't love it.
I guess it's just it came down to we can
loop ourselves into this trade that just seems inevitable between
Sacramento and San Antonio, and San Antonio has our pick
and we want it. What do you think, though, Dan,
about like the idea that the the what you've protected
yourself from is conveying the number eleven pick, you know,
or something like that if you're the bulls, like that
just doesn't seem like enough motivation to me.
Speaker 1: I think it rings hollow, and I struggle with how
to evaluate it against their past decisions. I think what
more brought up about the Caruso trade that if you
were going to go this route that you did with
Zach Levine, why weren't picks a priority in the Caruso
trade then? And I think that's a fair criticism. I
actually had a grade this trade too, and I gave
them a C minus. And I actually had read morrets
it's always a little bit lower. The thing that I
wonder if we're discounting of the two things, would be,
like you mentioned it, Grant, because there were out years
on those protections, like they are just now unencumbered when
it comes to their own first round picks. There's value
in that because you could you could theoretically be bad,
but if you're like the fifth worst team in the league,
there's a chance that you still lose that It's it's minute,
but like there's a chance that you would still lose
that pick. And the other thing, which this might speak
to the low baseline against against which I judge this
front office. It it does seem to me that they're
going to do something. You don't make this trade and
then do nothing else. Now do I think they'll trade
Kobe White? Nothing will surprise me anymore after Luka Doncics
was traded, so but I don't expect them to trade
Kobe White. It does like make me think, though, okay,
like they're gonna get rid of not just guys because
they're helping them win, but they're not just gonna hold
on to guys and try and chase that ten seed
and not think beyond this year and go year by year.
So it's fair I think critic them for their past mistakes.
I don't. I actually was a little bit surprised that
Zaqualvine couldn't get you more in a vacuum. But I
mean when we have the Mavericks wondering whether they think
Lukadanci is worth paying moving forward, it makes me wonder, Okay, well,
how our team's viewing the final two years and ninety
five million or whatever it is left on zach Lavine's deal.
So I don't think this was a good return, but
I think you can argue it was. Even if it
wasn't a necessary return, it it is at least semi
encouraging that it seems like this team might actually be
for once prioritizing the bigger picture.
Speaker 3: I agree that that is the macro defense you can
make for the Bulls is they can stand up to
critics like us and say you've been telling us to
sell forever, like can choose the direction we did it.
I know you don't like how we did it, but
we did it right like that. I think if you're
gonna be defensive on the Bulls, behalf. That's a reasonable
case to make. And then I know, we don't like
the argument, but the market just was what it was
and this is the best you could do, and you know,
sorry that it wasn't more favorable.
Speaker 2: So Greg, you said something along the lines that the
Bulls were the team that wanted to just like loop
themselves into this deal. I'm kind of thinking, because the
Kings and the Spurs have dealt with Chicago in recent
years and I've done so pretty effectively, I'm wondering if
they wanted to loop them in to just face the
fuck out of.
Speaker 3: Them that I saw somebody tweeted something to the effect of,
like the Spurs saw the two suckers at the table
and just keep making bets with them, Like that's really
what san Antonio is, just a predatory trade partner at
this point. And like, I mean, considering how things have
turned out when you'd make trades with the Kings and
the Bulls, like not the worst strategy.
Speaker 2: Right, No. And the thing is, I've actually heard this before,
like I've never had it like confirmed from multiple sources,
but I have heard that the Bulls, among many teams,
are like one of the first calls just like that's
that's the team you kind of throw shit up against
the wall and just like, hey, our torres, my bestest friend,
would you like to listen to this trade offer that
just is brings somethings off my head? And because there's
like a non serio chance, he just says, sure, I'll go,
I'll do it. I'll just I'll call my owner first,
Like it's just man that franchise. I feel so bad
for Bulls fans truly, I do, Like I understand why
the apathy level is so high right now. I was
I was just scrolling through Twitter last night when this
whole thing went through. There's like no reaction. There's just
like no cecle Bean had been there for seven year
people and like people loved him. They were like, yeah,
all right, that happened. It's just like the most saddest
crowd ever, Like something good has to fall Chicago's way soon,
just for the fan base, not for the organization because
screw them, but for the fans. They deserve something now.
Speaker 1: Is well, you're in impressions of this trade change it
all more if the Bulls do absolutely nothing before the
death line versus if they like does it change it
all based on what they could still do with the
deadline whether it's move Kobe White, move Vouch, and we
probably shouldn't spend too much time on it because they
might be moved by the time we're done recording this.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes and no. So I I never subscribe to
the idea that you make a move that's bad and
then you follow it up with a good one and
then we, like in the aggregate, have to like say,
oh this is great. Like no, Like you also have
to nail the individual moves, like if if you're losing
one and then win another one, that's just one one.
It's not like two. Oh, it's like that's you split it.
So this particular trade that's not going to change my mind,
like they should have gotten more back. I do think
this point Savouch though getting moved because Jalen Smith is there, now,
Sack Collins is there. I don't think they're going to
run with three centers for the rest of the year.
Apparently Golden State has just asked for everyone who's like
falls within the circle of star adjacent. I don't even
want to call Booch that, but I think if you
squint a little bit and look at the percentage this year,
even though they're dropping, let's not talk about that. You know,
you might be able to talk your way into that,
but like, what's what's the upside there? An inspiring contract
perhaps and a couple of second rounders, Like, Okay, is
that going to make any necessary needle moves for the future.
I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think downward adjust your expectations, right, if this
is what you're getting for Levine then and you can
if you can move Vucevic, I think again, trying to
keep expectations like relative to the deals that have happened,
even though the Dauntach thing I think needs to be
a separate class of deal. We don't draw any conclusions
about league wide trends from that deal. I think that's
a one off. But I think if you can move
Vucevic for say the Warriors mostly expiring cobble together salaries
and a second I mean, that doesn't seem bad. It's
not an objectively good move, but relative to what you've
just gotten for Levine, maybe that's the best you can
hope for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that there might be value and
Vooch would fall into this because he's the mid end
contract that's on the books for like twenty something million
dollars and my first instinct of this trade was they
think back both Kevin Herder and Zach Collins. But unless like,
we know what free agency is now, and we know
how trades work, even when they're lopsided, like very rarely,
like you need money to go out to do something,
and so with one year left you get out from
the final year of Zach Lavine's deal. I don't know
if this tront off is things in those terms. So
now we have a bunch of these like if a
team this offseason, when more teams presumably will be looking
to do stuff, you now have all this different type
of salary matching fodder or ballast to then enter the
market to become a dumping ground or like maybe snake
in and get an opportunity for a player that another
team doesn't want. I don't know if they're thinking in
those terms, but that would be the only logic I
could see behind keeping vouch into Oh, you.
Speaker 2: Are giving them way too much credit. You're giving just
the fact of like, oh, taking back players with long
term contracts for compensation of draft picks. Is that allowed?
It's going to be their response. I mean, you're you're
talking they just didn't well I mean, did they really like,
did they really was that their intent? Or were they
just like looking at a bunch of offers and just go, well,
we feel this is the best. Look. I just don't
have any faith whatsoever in this front office doing anything
of significant value. Like, honestly, I'm at that point where
if the Bulls have decided now to fully enter into
a rebuild, I think now's the time to switch front
office because do I trust this current administration to actually
succeed in building up a new version of the Bulls?
Hell no, absolutely not. This is a team that couldn't
even squeeze as second out of Oka see for Alex Caruso.
I'm sorry, but I keep going back to that because
that was the smoking gun for me. Like I've always
known they were bad negotiators. I've always heard the noise,
but like the fact that they pulled that, it's just
like it's egregious and now again it's like you're taking
on long term money, you're only getting your own pickback.
Like again, no additional first rounders for.
Speaker 3: Second part of this deal too.
Speaker 2: Look, and that's the thing so many people don't know.
John Paxton is still part of the organization he's like
an advisor and whatnot. Years ago, many years ago, he
was out basically saying a second rounder, like the inclusion
of the second rounder is never going to change my
mind on the trade. Like, if that's what it takes
for us to get a trade done, we'll give that
bad boy up. Like okay, fine, that shows me how
you look at draft picks, Like that's it's candy. You'll
throw it that way. It's not important to you. This
new front office reeks of the same. It's Garpex two
point zero. So like we can sit here and go, oh,
what are Chicago's long term plans? And I'm just like,
in two years, you're gonna be right back where we
are right now. It doesn't matter what their long term
plans are. It really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't disagree with it. I'm sorry, I
don't disagree with anything you're saying. But do we and
I mean, this is the two of you. But like
without Cruiser, we knew the market for him was different
than the return that they got with Levine. The reporting
has just always been that they weren't like people wanted
you have to attach something to get rid of him,
And so I guess I would be more inclined to really, like,
because I'm about to hammer the kings when we get
to them, I'd be really inclined to hammer the bulls
if I thought that there was an alternative outcome here
for them. And I guess just because if we if
we rewinded, let's say, two off seasons ago before he
got injured last year, are we sure that like the
market for him would have been a lot better. I
guess maybe I'm just curious as to, like, if we're
gonna hammer them for this specific return, Like, what do
we think the all like with Alex Caruso, just like
we knew there would have been.
Speaker 3: A pit of packers.
Speaker 1: I had at least a pick, if not too and
we knew at some point they were multiple first round
pick on the table. I struggled to see the teams
we wanted to trade for Zack Lavine, by and large,
were never going to trade for zach Lavine.
Speaker 2: No, But then then Grant kind of nailed it. He said,
you know, then you could flip Kobe White. I'd assume
with those guys like you could lead the tank with
sag and charge, and it's always easier to make trades
in the off season as opposed to in season, and
come the off season, you have one full year of
Saclovine's salary. The conversation level off, so like his deal
is shortened by a year. At that point in time,
at least try it. There was no rush to get
out of Saclovine. That's the kind of a I think
Grant just nailed it here. There was no rush for
them to say, oh, like, we're winning too much because
of Zack Lavine, Like, no, you're you're doing pretty awful
just with him in the lineup as well, because you can't,
you know, can't construct a proper roster. That what they
should have done. It was the zactly like move off
of Kobe, move off of Iowa. While they have value
and great value because their contracts are like chef's kiss,
it's they're perfect, especially for competing teams that are, you know,
a little bit rich at this point. You could have
given up so much, or you could have you're gonna
have taken so many draft assets in in that regard
and then just rolled with Sack for the rest of
the year. They would have been bad regardless. Go into
twenty twenty five off season, where everyone is a little
bit mellow. Everyone's like, oh, okay, we can actually do
five for one deals, four for one deals, if that's
what we want to do, like kick the can down
the road, Sack like instead of panic trade him, you know,
on in a deadline, it's it's they have no ambision.
Speaker 3: Grab what you were going to say something for and Dripple,
I was just going to say, like, well, as More
was talking, I wondered like, could I could you just
offer Kobe White to the Spurs for that twenty five
first back? Like I don't know, maybe maybe that if
you wanted to just kind of simplify this whole process,
maybe that could have been the way. And then you
all right, I love you so much.
Speaker 2: I love you so much because I've been pitching that
for what a year now. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just going to say, like, I totally
agree that you know, this organization, this front office, and
and you mentioned Garpak's two point zero, so really two
front offices have kind of established what their priorities are.
And that just makes me think we need to kick
the blame up the org chart to ownership because that's
the constant and if and if the argument I think
and it's it's a fair one is that this sort
of behavior has defined the Bulls for you know, what
amounts to more than one managerial or you know, front
office tenure than its ownership, and then that's bleaker because
there's that's way less likely to change than the front office.
That's all. I just wanted to rain even harder on
any kind of Bulls parade that might or might not
be happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's totally fair. I am one of the
first ones to bring that up as well. It's it's
it's so depressing because this is a team that's going
to go into like inheritance. It's going to go down
to kids like Bulls fans already know the name of
like Jerry Reinstor's grandchild, Joey, which like, oh yeah, he's
gonna take that. That's that's where we are. And apparently
I read somewhere, I think about a year ago or
something like that that the ownership group's primary source of
income now is not outside of the Bulls, it is
the Bulls. So that means there's less incentive to move
off of that because they're still printing money off of
the Bulls brand. They're printing money, and you'll you'll go
every anywhere, like even in Europe wherever there's like I
just came back from Paris, for example, it should have
been loaded with Wemby jerseys, and of course it was.
But like the second team in like the whole city
picture without a shadow hood out, bulls gear, bulls gear everywhere,
bulls caps, bulls jerseys, you know. And I say, also
this like Air Jordan brand because that still has the
thing over here. They're printing money, so that ownership group
is not going to sell unless someone comes in, you know,
with one of those you know, now you have mine
attention kind of offers.
Speaker 1: Are we ready to move on to the Sacramento Kings.
Speaker 3: I'm ready for you to go in.
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna start. You're gonna start with you Grant,
because the Sacramento Kings are your team, as we've a
stackised multiple times. This podcast just a review for anyone
who might be skipping around. So in to Sacramento. We
have CD Soisoco, Zach Lavine, Charlotte's twenty twenty five first
which will be two seconds, Chicago's twenty twenty five second,
San Antonio's twenty twenty seven first Denver's twenty twenty eight
second top thirty three protection their own twenty twenty eight
second round pick a Chicago initially at that, and then
Minnesota is twenty thirty one first round pick, and then
they are sending out dearon Fox and Jordan McLoughlin, Grant.
Your reaction when we were texting about this trade when
it first went down was just maybe you were just
so you held everything to the Luca Doncs, to the
Lakers bar, and so maybe you were just you've seen
nonplussed about this one, though.
Speaker 3: I think that's a factor for sure. I don't know
how to like recalibrate my expectations for trades anymore, I think,
so I don't, So let's start with this Zach. I
think I agree with more than Zach Lavine. The needle
went way too far toward the negative on Zack Lavine.
I think Zach Lavine is a really, really good offensive
player who makes sense for a lot of teams, and
I think his value had sunk too low. I think
he is the exact wrong kind of player for the
Kings to be targeting just because one like, congrats you've
reassembled the DeRozan Levine tandem that got you tenth in
the East for several years in a row, and now
you're like, it's it's too perfect that that was thought
to be a good idea by the Kings, who just
continue to build rosters that seem like fantasy rosters. I guess.
So I like zach Lavine the player. I think that
if this were another team getting him for this package,
I'd feel better about it. I just don't love the fit.
I guess it's possible since I just made the argument
that if you hold on to zach Lavine as the Bulls,
his value increases, and so it follows that the Kings
may be able to flip him for something doesn't feel
like a player they added to flip, because if they
were interested in flipping for draft assets, there are other
constructions you could get into with the Spurs where you
bring back rebuild D type pieces. That does not seem
to have been the impetus here. So I don't like
any of the picks. You know, we've gone over at
the twenty thirty one Minnesota first, I suppose is the best,
but there's almost no chance this front office is here
to enjoy whatever that becomes. So you know, I guess
in some ways you could credit them for being taking
a long view, like that's a good asset to have.
Great that Charlotte first is as fake of a first
as has ever existed, and the Spurs first, if things
don't go totally sideways, is in the mid to late twenties.
So I just you got off Kevin. Let's say the
positives you got off Kevin Herder's money. You didn't have
to take back Zach Collins, which is nice. You would
maybe have seen that as a possibility. Somehow, I'm just
unmoved by it. I think it's okay. I think this
there's clearly more moves to be made by the Kings now,
who don't have point guards unless you think Devin Carter's
really ready and Malik Munk can do that. I think ultimately,
and we've talked about this a little, if this was
the best you could do for Daron Fox, you wait
until the offseason again, And that's such a it's a
crutch of an argument to make because we don't know
what was better that might have been out there in
a couple months or a few months. I'm just I'm
not persuaded that this was the best you were ever
gonna do when trading Daron Fox. I guess that's where
i'd leave it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna be interested to get more thoughts in
a second, because we diverged a lot on this one.
I think this is despicable business by Sacramento.
Speaker 3: Here, what specifically do you do you not like about
it the worst aspect.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a continuation of what they've been doing where
let's so let's forget about the part where the dearon
Fox situation was probably salvageable, Like this is years of
built up Like you screwed up the way the Mike
Brown situation was handled. You didn't deflect blame from him
enough with that was pretty bad. Now, what has been
our biggest complaints with this roster over and over again
is that they have ignored the biggest needs for years,
which was getting at least another wing type of player
and a change up like reserve big or maybe even
someone upfront who could play next to the bonus. Now
you go through a trade and you what you did
is what you did over the offseason where you addressed
preserving or maybe upgrading the status quo of your strengths
on offense and I think that Zaclovine is a floorce
basically upgrade over Dearon Fox. He's a better off the
dribble three point shooter. He's gonna give you the same,
if not more, rim pressure, and he's the better off
ball shooter as well. At the same time, there's a
playmaking deficit here, and for anyone I did acknowledge this,
like Okay, you have the bonus and Monk and even Levine,
uh and DeRozan as well to bridge that gap. So
Bonis and DeMar Derozen have been two of the easiest
players to gain plan around in the postseason when they've
entered the playoffs. You've now added Malik monk Is. He's
really good. I don't view him as just like Okay,
he's gonna go up against other team's best lineups, break
down the defense and set everybody up. Darn Fox is
the we know Zach Levine's not that guy. He's like
a tertiary type playmaker, which is fine. You've now as
big of complaints we have as Darren Fox is inconsistency,
You are worse on defense, like the lifts for Keyon
Ellis and Keegan Murray just got a lot heavier, and
you could say, all right, Devin Carter's now in the
pipeline and playing awesome. You don't like you're still looking
at all, right, well, where's the wing, where's the different
type of reserve bigs? And are you confident that lineups
with de Rosen and Levine and even Monk if they're
gonna play them together, Like, are you confident in what
you're gonna have behind them, which is going to be
Keegan Murray? And that's basically it, because that's not what
the bonus does. You got Grantar He said this, you
have maybe one premium asset out of this deal, and
that's only because what Anthony Edwards leave Minnesota like that
was the lottery ticket kind of on Minnesota's pick. And
maybe they'll age out and go through years of turmoil
or whatever. But you couldn't even get I think this
was the big mark for me. You couldn't even get
San Antonio's twenty twenty five first. You got their twenty
twenty seven first, Like that twenty twenty five first, even
after this trade could theoretically still be a lottery pick,
and you couldn't get that. The only thing I recognize
is Daron Fox wanted to go to San Antonio, maybe
the market wasn't as expansive for his services. But to
Grant's point, then you just wait for the offseason, and
I bet like something similar is on the table from
San Antonio. If not, maybe there are more teams willing
to roll the dice on dearon Fox, who, by the way,
never came close to giving off like Jimmy Butler withholding
services vibes or telling other teams he wouldn't sign with
them outright. And so if you're a Kings fan, I
feel bad for you, and I would be wildly disenchanted
with this franchise because even if what you've done is
kind of treadwater for the regular season, I don't know
how you look at this roster as currently constructed and
think that it's better fit for the postseason. And finally,
the fact that this front office was allowed to make
this move when they are responsible for bumbling the darn
Fox situation and repeatedly ignoring or failing to address or
touting their almost acquisitions of all these players who would
have helped them is just it's a farce to me.
And so the return on balance given the circumstances probably
isn't terrible, but you've just now missed on way too
many fronts over the past more than a year. But
even just kind of like isolating it to this season,
just everything from the start of the demise with Mike
Brown and his extension to the way this darn Fox
situation was handled, to the negotiation. None of the Spurs
is young player, Like you couldn't get a Kelvin Johnson
out of this. No, Like okay, Steph Castle off limits,
Like you don't even get a flyer on like Malachlive
Randam or Blake Wesley. Maybe you didn't want that, like
Jeremy Sohan, Like I just just a complete failure organizationally
on this part on there.
Speaker 3: I don't want to step on what I imagine if
more you're a little less rough on the Kings here
on some of the points you might want to make.
But just to argue against myself a little bit, I
do wonder if we are giving enough weight to the Spurs,
just like incomprehensible amount of leverage here where they can
set the price, tell the Kings we're gonna sign him
when he leaves, So take this now, or this is
all you're gonna get now. The Kings probably still should
have called that bluff, I think, and wait until the
off season. But that's the best way for me to
rationalize this from Sacramento's perspective. I don't know if I
agree with that. I think maybe you do call that
bluff and the offer does get better, But I imagine that
that's a component of this from the Spurs side. More,
go ahead, sorry, step on it.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, that's fine, because I think the leverageman
is totally fair. It's one that I've been clamoring on
like it for a while now, since the news broke
that he wanted to go there. I gave the trade
an a for the Kings, and I did so because
while I agree with you Dan in terms of, oh,
they probably should have kept him, they probably should have
rolled it into the offseason and whatnot, That's not how
I can approach a trade like I'm going to grade
what actually like the return and only the return. Like Saclavien. Again,
I've been saying this, I think he's grotesquely underraider. I've
actually wanted him on the Kings for a year and
a half now. Now. Granted I wanted to pare him
with Fox and some bonus. I didn't want him to
be paired up with the Marta Rosen. So this is
like one of those situations where okay, like we can
talk about the fit, but I do think that in
a sped up offense and actually having a Levine to
be installed next to a is a bonus, an elite
playmaker or just like borderline e lead, whatever it is.
I don't think Lavine has ever played with a playmaker
like this. We can argue Lonzo, but it was like
a thirty five games sample when he was healthy and
then you know, miss two and a half years, so
I don't think that really counts now Levine, who's for
three years, we're one of the best off ball players
in the league, not just spotting up but also like cutting.
He's going to have a field day playing off as
a bonus, So like if you want to be competitive,
and clearly the Kings are not looking to take a
major step back by doing this, Otherwise they would have
taken on Levine, so I have to grade it through
that perspective. Now, should they have gone into different direction, Yes, absolutely,
because if you're training away to Aaron Fox, you should
have basically said, look, that's not just the franchise, but
that's a pretty good segue for us to go into
rebuilding process. But that's not what they wanted to do.
So I have to grade them on what they are
trying to do. And they got a spacing, a volume
spacer in there, which they've lacked for a long while now.
Who can play off of elite playmakers, who can play
off ball? Who isn't going to you know, take over
processions again and again and again. And yes, I understand
that the draft picks aren't necessarily great. I get that.
I will say that the thirty one Minnesota and grant
you mention it, I dig that that's going to be
a genuine trade asset in my opinion, because I have
a hard time seeing Minnesota basically keeping Anthony David. Wow,
we're training Anthony Davis once again, Anthony Edwards at this rate.
So I think given the ledge that San Antonio held here,
given the situation that they were in, and I can't
I can't sit here and say that all wasn't really
that bad behind the scenes, I don't think. So I
have no idea, like we have no idea, what the
hell went on. We have no idea if Darren Fox
and Monti McNair got into a fist fight, we have
no idea what happened behind the state, behind the scenes.
The fact that this all materialized so quickly makes me
believe that there's something behind it that we are not
privy too yet. So I think given all that context,
they did pretty well. And they also got off Kevin
hrders deel like. I don't think that's nothing either. Would
I wanted more if I'm the Kings, yes, of course
I would. But if this is what the market basically
maximized me on right now, and I wanted to make
a deal right now, I can't hate the return. I
just can't.
Speaker 1: Okayank you and genuine question, I'm not even trying to
be an asshole here. Why is that different from the
way we would be evaluating what the Bulls did with
zach Lavine right now? Because you feel like you're emphasized
like we have to exist in the present, so we
can't critics like be too critical for the Bulls of
their past mistakes or the Kings for their past mistakes.
Like the Bulls, it was look at all this stuff
that they've done that's bad, Like we have to hammer
them for the way that they handle the zac lavine trade.
Speaker 2: Well, so so you're arguing that because the Kings have
a poor track record, why would you.
Speaker 1: Trust this front office? I mean, Chicago's not over Chicago's
front office, But like they've decided that, oh it didn't
work with Levine and to rose in and a defensive
liability at center, but maybe it works here.
Speaker 2: Totally fair question. I think what lends me some credence
to this in is the fact that they actually did
pretty well a couple of years back and actually looked
like they were heading towards some kind of identity. But
I do agree with you because Kings fans and rightfully
so we're asking the question, should this Rondovs be the
one handling a rebuild? But they're not going to enter
a rebuild from what we're seeing right now, like otherwise
you are not training for cyclovine. So I'm basically saying, oh, look,
given the context of the situation, let them go into that,
see where it shakes out. And look this again, Grays
are always fluid, right, Like I'm giving them a name
based on the situation because I think they were backed
into a corner here. I think, like the Aaron Fox
is also represented by Clutch, and we know that when
Clutch wants something, they usually get it. I think this
is one of those deals that are so difficult to
maneuver and for them to actually get a player in
return who I think is also a caliber player as
well as can we say two and a half first
rounders because of that Charlotte one.
Speaker 1: Perhaps, yeah, maybe you get a lot of like the
Charlotte seconds could be pretty good and like so that
they probably got, like they got some intriguing seconds.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, they actually did pretty well in replenishing their
draft cupboard. Is kind of my point here. So I'm
just not left with this bad taste in my mouth
because I'm very much assuming that they were their backs
were up against the wall. But I do think you
raise a very good point because if it comes to
the Kings having to like face facts and say, all right,
we have to enter rebuild, should they trust Monty McNair
and everyone there to conduct that.
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, it's clear you are you both
already said this, but it's made even more clear by
the return on this trade that they have no plans
to do that they couldn't even get And maybe I
mean this is the Spurs being smart. The kids couldn't
even get their own pick swap back. Like, how honestly,
if I'm if san Antonio would have put that on
the table, how much of that grant would it have
been worth? Like what would you have been allowed to
have been taken out of this trade of san Antonio
put the twenty thirty swap, Like you can have the
rights back to your twenty thirty pick on the table.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what i'd say in a specific
answer to that, but that I'd rather have that than
would you rather have that than both the san Antonio
first and the Minnesota and the and certainly I'd give
me that over the Charlotte quote unquote first and the
san Antonio first. I think, although that's another one that's
so far off, kind of like the twenty thirty one
Minnesota pick, where Minie McNair's got to be thinking like
that's somebody else is gonna be the one that sees
that pick get made. But yeah, I don't know, I
really I think you YouTube being so far apart on it.
I feel like I'm falling somewhere in the middle, where
I think the key arguments are the leverage san Antonio
had and the King's right or wrong deciding we're not rebuilding,
we want to star in here and we're going to
try to make the best of it. I guess I
think that's probably the wrong choice, but it's the one
they made, and in light of that, I guess this
package becomes more defensible. And like I think, I don't know,
it's again, it's so easy to say, wait until the
off season. Can't you imagine though, that, Like, you know,
if you do that, the rest of this season is done,
because you're gonna have Dearn Fox playing with a foot
out the door or not playing, and then you have to,
you know what I mean, Like it just maybe it's
worth something to turn the second half of this season
if you're the Kings into into a product that fans
will care about as opposed to one that you know,
just I don't, I don't know. I'm just trying to
kind of justify me falling in between you two guys.
Speaker 1: Would if you had gone, let's say, the route of
not of just holding him to the off season, even
if you wanted to go the direction of still being competitive.
Do you think it there would have been more value
though in Okay, now we're keeping our twenty twenty five
first round or that's ode to Atlanta, where this probably
makes it more likely that it conveys, Like so we're
gonna up the value that pick and then we'll either
get a player in here or that sweetens a different
type of move we're looking to make.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: Just I don't know if they would have gotten something
that made me feel like san Antonio conceded, like in
the negotiation, like if you would have gotten the Smotpack,
if you have gotten even a young one of their youngsters.
I don't think Miselle or Steph Cassel was ever realistic,
but you could have gotten Julian Champenny. I might have
felt like a little bit better about this deal. And
I wanted to talk about this with the Spurs. I'll
throw it to you, Grant, but I do think it's
Germaine to the Kings. How do you view it against Okay, well,
Daron Fox, let's just sit like paying him moving forward
and like the bare minimum. Let's say I don't think
he was gonna get it supermax. Just I don't think
he was gonna make all NBA, especially with everything that happened,
but just looking at it through the context of Okay,
a four year, two hundred and twenty eight point six
million dollar extension does that again? I want to ask
that same question with san Antonio, but with regards to Sacramento,
was that like part of the calculus here? Like O
re entirely sure if they were the ones that initiated
these talks as reported, like, do you think that's part
of the calculus of maybe they didn't want to pay
Daron Fox like.
Speaker 3: That, they being the Kings, didn't want to pay him
like that. I it's hard for me to imagine given
the Kings kind of emphasis on winning now and just
general willingness to overpay players that are good not great.
If we're going to cite the Sabonis example, uh, and
we're gonna cite the kinds of players they pursue and prioritize,
they love good not great. Fox is probably closer to
great than good, but he's on that spectrum somewhere in
between the two. I don't think. I don't think that
was gonna be a concern for the Kings and the Supermax.
Maybe maybe, but I kind of doubt that too, I
actually think so. I hope that answers your question. I
actually think we've got to talk about the Spurs side
of this now, which which brings part of that same
consideration like into the picture, because depending on what san
Antonio does, you could view Fox as a guy that
they will pay for for two twenty nine and he's
their second best player of the first phase of the
Wemby era, and is that good enough is a fair question.
Or maybe he's a guy that you don't view as
san Antonio as the second play, as the second guy.
Maybe he's a stop gap until you find a better second.
Maybe they envision him being the third option, and is
that worth four for two twenty nine. I think the
Spur side of this is really interesting just because they,
out of all these teams, are the ones that have
the blanket slate, that have the most options that are
hardest to gauge in terms of a timeline. So I
don't know more. Maybe you have thoughts on do you
view Fox. Let's just keep it simple to start and
take it where you want. Is Fox the Wemby running
mate that they were right to view in that way?
Or is he something less than that?
Speaker 2: I actually consider him less than that, or rather, let
me rephrase what was reported initially as oh, the spur
should go all in on tieron Fox. That was then
I geology that I disagreed with because I don't think
it's it's necessarily as clean a fit as a lot
of people make it out ass you know, in my
personal opinion, I think you need tops to my spacing
around Wemby, and you can't cheat off of Fox occasionally,
especially as a shooter, because you know, you had that
one spike and then it's down to like thirty two
forty three percent again from the outside. So the offensive
fit is I think it's a little bit muddy. The
defensive fitna By immediately, like just immediately, because he's such
a blur and he's got long arms, athletic as.
Speaker 1: Hell, made sorry with anyone nearly as talented as Steph
Castle is on that end of the floor right now,
like it, you know, positionally, No, I.
Speaker 3: Mean Davion Mitchell is a very different type of defender. Yeah,
like yeah, he's already a one position defender to Castle
might be a three position defender.
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, no, it's fair. I it's a really good question. Actually,
I hadn't. I hadn't considered yet that like that's gonna
be I think I think the Spurs are well on
their way to building one of the most ridiculous defenses
in the NBA, honestly, especially when so Hank gets right
like he's been in and out of the lineup all year,
Like imagine when he goes into year four next year
with all that data under him. Well, all right, I
don't know if Fox is that guy, but I think
he's good enough to have some level of staying power,
and the fact that he's not going to be on
a forty five percent max is going to make it easier.
Spurs still have and this is ridiculous to think about
that they still have two years left on Wempy's rookie deal,
so they have time to figure this thing out. They
have so much flexibility. I mean, have we just fully
leaned into this burst now? Because I just want to
go there.
Speaker 1: Well I I, oh, yeah, we fully leaned in this burst, So.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, all right, all right? Cool? Because can we
just talk about how they cooked last night? Can we
talk about how you know, they made James Harden look like,
you know, flipping burgers when he was in Houston, like, oh,
I'm a chef. Yeah, no, No, the Spurs cooked, they cooked.
This was a ridiculous They didn't give up the Hawks pick.
I was very verbal about that on Blue Sky when
everyone's like, oh, like that pig has to be given up,
Like not after the Jaalen Johnson injury. No way were
they going to look at that and go, yeah, that's movable. No, no,
not without severe protections that that wasn't in the fold.
They didn't get off Stephan Stephan Castle. They even kept
Julian Champagne. As you pointed out, Dan Player, who I
think I.
Speaker 1: Think he was the most important player to protect in
this right right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, especially when they didn't have Lindy Waters to
protect right right, Ran Like that's yeah.
Speaker 3: But like.
Speaker 2: God, that that's an A plus to me. That's just
a straight a plus. They understood how to work that
leverage they got. They got their guy in for a
really good price point to the point where they shouldn't
feel bad if that fit doesn't work out and they
can flip him later on. There's just nothing I hate
about what the Spurs got back here and what they
gave up complete ownership of that entire drink.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I gave them uh an a.
I think it was an a orna minus when I
degrade it. But if I was to like map out
the downsides for them, just to play Devil's advocate here,
I actually think Daron Fox is undervalued as a shooter,
Like he still shoot twelve floaters this season. He's hitting
over I mean this was you know, ever since like
the news came out, he's been wonky, but he was.
He's still over thirty five percent on step back threes,
over forty six percent on pull up twos. The downsides
for me, and we didn't get too much of it.
I guess into the contract other than the terms, like
his contract is going to start his age twenty nine season,
and so you figure, like, let's just throw all four
years on there. So twenty nine, thirty, thirty one, thirty two.
That feels about right. But for someone who still is
pretty reliant on athleticism, I'd be curious what that looks like.
I think even if the final year is bad, the
spurs are just they'll be fine. But I do question,
like grant adding into and I didn't have time to
write about this because I wasn't thinking I was thinking
about it, but I just I haven't like crystallized any
thoughts on it. Does getting him threaten to marginalize one
or both of the like Steph Castle, Jeremy Sohan and
I gravitate towards the ladder specifically, I know he's not
doing necessarily a ton on the ball, but we're already
talking about spacing concerns. And now if you add in
someone you view as I'm assuming they want to Hearon
Fox around for like a couple of years, that is
going to like shift the like. Maybe maybe not the
type of role so Han needs to play, but maybe
the space he's working with, or just the number of
touches he's even gonna get.
Speaker 3: I think that's a possibility. I also think that so
Han is not the type of player that you're concerned
about marginalizing when you have the opportunity to get someone
like Fox like Sohn's a good example of I think
what's a bigger issue with the Spurs where because of
when Bin Yama's ability, we think to space as a
center and basically take nothing off the table. You can
afford to have a Sohan out there who does a
few things exceptionally well but has severe limitations, and is
that the way to go right? Can you have sort
of specialists it's like him because you have Wemby? Or
is that aiming low? And you shouldn't make any concessions
like that you have Wemby And just because you can
have Sohn in a major role doesn't mean you should.
You should still be trying to get guys that do
what so Hand does plus more. Like, I think it's
just a question of how ambitious you want to be
building around Wemby, And my inclination would be you ought
to be as ambitious as humanly possible because this is
this guy is just is going to allow you to
make mistakes and take big swings if you wanna and
cover for those. So I guess yeah, I think you're right. Like,
it does stand a reason that so Han will be
marginalized somewhat, and maybe Castle doesn't get the on ball
reps you'd want if you want him to grow into
the type of player he's going to be. I think
with Castle specifically, I just don't know what he's going
to be yet. I love him as a prospect. Another
guy with glaring limitations that matter more because he's a
guard the shooting I'm talking about. I just think if
he is what you think he is as the Spurs,
then you should probably trust him to figure it out right,
and you would hope that if he is who you
think he is, he's undeniably good. And the idea of
worrying about how he fits with someone like Fox this
early is just not something you should be thinking about,
you know what I mean. Like, if you think he's fragile,
or you think like, oh, this might stun his growth,
then you're kind of admitting he's not the level of
prospect you believe him. You're saying you think he is
as the Spurs, and I.
Speaker 2: Don't think they think that whatsoever. They have thrown him
into the wall several times this year and he's done
pretty well. The vibe that I got covering this team
over the course of a week in Paris as well,
and I asked around about Castle, is just they love him, They.
Speaker 3: Love trust him to become whatever he's going to become,
and don't worry about Fox maybe getting in the way.
Maybe Fox facilitates him becoming the best version of himself.
I don't know. It's just the Spurs and Castle and
Wimby are so early in their developmental processes that it's like,
you know, fit, you got to care about fit to
some extent. But because I think we're sort of in agreement,
that is not the final piece, you know, or anything
like that. You can just kind of see what this
looks like and if you don't love it, well then
you're not. You didn't give up much to take the
trial run with Fox, right, and.
Speaker 2: Cassel isn't necessarily a point guard either. Again, what I
sort of learn.
Speaker 1: How to shoot. If you want him to play next
to Fox probably on someone.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's like that's a skill based thing.
But I do think, you know, moving forward, the fact
that he so fluid positionally just allows them to use
him in whatever capacity. Like, I don't think they're necessarily
married to starting him just out of necessity or anything.
Like he's twenty years old. I wouldn't be surprised he
spends the rest of this year and all next year
like going in and out of the starting lineup trying
to figure out what is the right way to utilize him.
Because yeah, like I just agree, I agree that they're
I don't think they're looking at him like, oh, like
the presence of tier Fox is gonna mug it up,
like he's gonna get minutes because Chris Paul is not
gonna be around for it there either, And like trade
Jones just got traded, so like there are gonna be
plenty of minutes available at those guard spots regardless, Like
that's not something that I would be concerned about, and
I'm I doubt very much the Spurs R two. What
a home run that they didn't have to give him up?
Speaker 1: Do you more? What I also do financialing about the
trade though, is the timing, because I do I look
at the cost, and I think even if you view
this as they had to give up more than three
first round picks, like in net you kind of mapped
out what they still have. If we like kind of
go through the like through two thousand and thirty draft,
there's a chance that in every year, but in twenty
twenty nine they can really talk about into saying, well,
we might have the rights to a pick that could
be a lottery pick just because this year might be
their own in Atlanta's they could swap with Atlanta in
twenty six, they have Atlanta's in twenty seven, even though
they don't have their own they can Boston in twenty
twenty eight as a swap with top one protection. Is
just sort of like eh, but then you also have
like the two thousand and thirty rights as well, So
like just looking at the cost, it makes so much sense.
But the timing of Okay, well, they're clearly not contending
this season, and maybe they kind of back their way
or not back their way, but get into the play
in But I wouldn't expect them. Maybe they win it,
I wouldn't expect them to. I mean, I guess, as
Grant like to say, all things are possible through Wemby,
so we shouldn't put a ceiling on it. But do
you think it what is the timing of this trade?
Say to you, is it more like, oh, they're gonna
start really not be reckless, but like they viewed next
year as a time to go for it, or do
you think that there could be another move for them
at the deadline? And then also what is still when
you're looking at this team We've yet to see them play,
of course, but as currently constructed, what do you identify
is still like okay, well, what's like maybe the biggest
need or two that they still need to address to
optimize what's what's in place.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they're open minded towards everything this year.
So again they one just for they won just twenty
two games last year, so we have to remember that already.
By now, they're looking pretty good in terms of the turnaround,
Like everything from here is just cream. They're playing with
no pressure whatsoever because everyone was like, oh, yeah, they
were one of the worst teams last year, and now
it's they're playing with house money. The fact that they
get Fox, and yes, it does come with a certain
level of expectation, but not like immediate teams and players
and fans and all everyone kind of knows. Now, Oh,
it takes some time for a player of that magtitude
to get acclimated and like get into the flow of things.
But like the Spurs, ask you guys out loud, lining,
I mean, Wemby is so incredibly easy to play with.
Is also my read on everything I've been hearing and
the players I've talked to is just he's like he's
the new pluck and play. Remember how Kevin Durant is
like the prototypical pluck and play guys, So easy to
play with that's Wemby now because of the catch and
shout ability from like thirty five feet out. So for
Fox to come in, I'm guessing he's gonna have an
easier transition than most make it out as. And if
they suddenly make a push and they get into the playoffs,
are we gonna sit here with a straight face and
say they could win a first round matchup and like
go into the second Like, I'm just not gonna put
a ceiling on it. Like in terms of the follow
up trade, I think they're open minded, but I think
they're very, very aware that there are certain peace says
they're not going to want to pivot off off, like
especially Castle and the Hawks picks, which I think they
are loving this situation they are in. And that's not
you know, trying to trash Genial and Johnson for going down.
That's obviously super disappointing for everyone involved. But like for
the Spurs, I could understand why they would be, oh
that that pick just got way more juicy. So they
have no pressure. Everyone's kind of expecting them to go
all in this summer, so they're just sitting there. Yeah,
we made one move. Now we'll see how far we go.
I don't think they have any plans mapped out, Dan whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Grant you have anything to add, even and just if
you had to pick, we've talked about it. But I'm
just wondering since the Fox trade, obviously because you're impressure,
like what this team still needs? Changed it all.
Speaker 3: I don't know that it's changed a ton. I do
agree that it's just kind of a let's figure out
what this looks like and we'll adjust as we go forward.
What I would add is I think we need to
give at least a little bit of thought to the
possibility that while the out years of whatever deal Fox
signs might be painful because of the athleticism concerns and
all that stuff, we need to consider the fact that
he might be better than he's ever been right now
in this new environment. He's never played with a spacing big.
He's never played with like, look at the wings he's
got around him now, even if I mean Harrison Barnes,
old buddy, But yeah, Kelden Johnson, you've got Devin Bissel there.
I think there's a chance that Fox in a spaced
floor is just like a nightmare, you know, until he
loses that step, which who knows when that might come.
It's not going to be this year or next. I
mean there's a change that we agree this trade looks
great for the Spurs. That could look better, like if
down the stretch of the season we see a version
of Fox that we never really got to see because
he had some bonus just kind of in the middle
of the floor and you know, helpful in the handoff game.
But Fox with Fox with no center in the middle
of the lane is an interesting thing to think about offensively?
Speaker 2: Can I ask you guys something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Kelden Johnson's contract right now million this year, seventeen and
a half million next year, so it's declining and then
just staying in seventeen and a half. I know he's
not like, you know, a for all teams to certify starter,
but like for that compensation level, he should be an
asset in some ways, He's probably the one guy I'm
looking at. It's like, if they make a follow up
trade before the deadline, he's the guy. Is there a
trade that makes sense for him for you guys, like
one that just pops with given the fact that he's
got the nineteen outgoing.
Speaker 1: I so if they were to make another change because
I've I've come around to the fact that like mid
season acquisitions are just so tough to integrate, and already
made a major one. I'm wondering if you could move him.
And this is if you went back what was the
year where he like shot the lights out on threes,
I probably said some pretty inflammatory things about what he read.
Speaker 3: It's like three years ago now, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But they kind of need someone who's gonna I would
think to do that. And so I'm just wondering, like,
would you because I don't know how lower I honestly,
after all these years, even the extension that he signed
was proof of this, I had no idea what their
impressions were, and I still don't necessarily have an idea,
So like, would you consider just as like a name
type to throw out there, like a Duncan Robinson archetype
on this?
Speaker 2: Oh I love that. I actually love that because they
got Fox now and because every like they got the
ducks in a row, like the fact that you can
put in someone who is well, like, I know he's developed,
but it's fair to call Duncan Robinson primarily one trick
pony still, right, Like that's.
Speaker 4: Maybe one and a half because we've seen it one
and a half for Pony, Yeah, like for him to
come in and just bend defenses that way, for for Wimby,
for Fox, for Castle, hell yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: I mean that's a good one.
Speaker 3: Cam Johnson, like you could you could get there real
easy with Keldon and just throw Now we'll keep Champagne
off the table. But like Blake Lesley gets you there, uh,
and you got all these picks that you didn't give
up in this Fox trade to sweeten things like the
I think the point is the Spurs can basically do
whatever well you could. You could throw Johnson and Barnes together.
That's like thirty six million in twenty five twenty six salary.
And if you're not married to Vassell, you can get
up to Max. Like they can trade for the Max
guy that Fox maybe isn't you know? They can sign
the guy depending on what you'd get back for a
Viscel trade. Now, it's just every option, you know, all
paths are all paths are open right now.
Speaker 1: I will say I would be fairly surprised if they then, like,
because what is the what's the least valuable pick they
own now? Right now? It's I guess it's one of
their own movies, all their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd
be surprised if they trade another first round pick, is
what I was getting at. But it's sort of like
they did just trade for Daron Fox and so is
your Is your own twenty twenty five pick really off
the table? Might be something that I would wonder about,
But I guess you could say you have Atlanta's like,
would you prefer to trade your twenty twenty six pick?
You could do something like but that you have a
swap on that, so you probably want to get rid
of it. But I think you guys are right that
anything's kind of possible here. Is there anything else on
this well more anything else about this trade specifically you
want to talk about or is there anything else that's
happening that you don't think it's going to become too dated?
Overarching thoughts you want to get off your chest.
Speaker 2: Before I do. I actually do have a thought, and
people can.
Speaker 1: Ever going to end right here, grant take a s.
Speaker 2: I do. Some people are gonna laugh at me for
this one because everyone looks at him as a bit
of a joke, which I think is ridiculous, Like a
human victory. Cigar Santra Mamo kayless, Really, I think this
guy is so you you.
Speaker 3: Just wanted to say the name so easily.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no no. It took me a
long time, like I couldn't get through that name. But
then then I met him in La and which was
super nice to me and my son. I was like, okay,
I got to learn it now.
Speaker 3: He's like, you're the guy that can say my name.
I've heard about it.
Speaker 2: I'm the other the one guy.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: But like so they gave up, said Collins in the
deal obviously, like they don't have a lot of size
now and like they still have Charles Bassy. Yes, but
it feels like the door is open for Momo now
to get more minutes. And I am digging that. I
think there's a player in there. I think a lot
of people are going to be surprised if he is
going to get the minutes at how he produces. The
on court chemistry he's had over the first two seasons
with Wemby is ridiculous, Like they know where each other
are at all times. It's like it's wild when you're
watch it in person as well when you're sitting there
watching them on the court. I just I want to
get that in because I have a feeling we're going
to see a second half of the season from Mamo
that is going to be very, very good, and I
just wanted to be on the record about it.
Speaker 1: That is, I mean that or unless they're going to
trade for a backup big I really wanted Robert Williams
on this team, but now they don't really have the
with trade.
Speaker 2: Don't you Dare, don't you Dare, don't block Mamo. Don't
do it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to want to now sold on him
as a future star. Grant you got anything else on
this trade or anything else that's happening around the NBA.
You got your KD and Lebron Warriors. I mean, dust
off the Kdie Warriors jersey and get that Lebron to
the Warriors jersey.
Speaker 3: Yep, back, I placed that order on NBA dot Com
while we were talking. So well, I'm all set. I'm
all ready for for anything to happen. Yeah, no, nothing
else to add. I'm afraid of dating this by giving
any other trade thoughts.
Speaker 1: I didn't know why did you see this is a
minute to the honest comments like, he was clearly being facetious,
but he was talking about the double standard of star
players wanting out versus when franchise you want to get
rid of them. And then he's like, I want to
see Luca to the Lakers, I want to see Nicole
Jokic to the Knicks. And so I went through the
comment section just to see, like in the br app
and the amount of people that like, and it was
the video. It wasn't just the transcript, the amount of
people that just like. Even his tone was just like, oh,
he is so gone from a walk they took away
from that. I'm just like, that was not my takeaway
at all, but that's what everyone gravitated towards. So I
found that I just wanted to shout that out because
I kind of like it when NBA players troll, like
basically the news cycle, slash the content model. That's all
I wanted to say.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, no, that's great, that's great. Look, I
just have this rule that whoever owns a blow chop
bell should never be taken seriously. That's just my takeaway
here ever owns a what a blowchop bell? Have you
not seen that?
Speaker 1: Oh? I thought you said low job bell and I
didn't read that.
Speaker 2: I no, no, no, no, I'm way more dirty than that. Dan,
you should know. You should know.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: But whenever you own something like that, I'm just you're
always like I'm going to take you like sixty percent
seriously at most, Well.
Speaker 1: You can get your the NBA podcast branded blowjob bells
at their store on Mort's only fans link. But actually,
Grant happy to take us out of you.
Speaker 3: I think we'd better. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching.
We got our handles on the bottom of the screen here.
If you're watching, thank you Dan, thank you Mort. Check
out more five. Well, this is a crossover, so if
you're listening to this, you know where you're getting it from.
You know, you know to Paula Hardwood Knock's the same deal.
Shouts Frank Milikena apologies, Jared Allen