1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,400
Speaker 1: What is up, fella, Siko's I Am Dana Valley coming

2
00:00:08,439 --> 00:00:12,199
at you with a mega crossover episode of Hardwood Knox

3
00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:16,920
Times the NBA Podcast. We have the certified fantabulous mister

4
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,600
Grant Hughes. We have the equally certified fantabulous mister Mort Gentsen.

5
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,800
We're here to talk about absolutely nothing because nothing's happened

6
00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:26,440
over the NBA in the past couple of days. But

7
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,760
we've both both our shows have done Luka Doncic, Lakers

8
00:00:29,839 --> 00:00:32,799
Mavericks content already. We're here to talk Zach Lavine to

9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,240
the Kings, Deanon Fox to the Spurs, and contracts that

10
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,679
other teams did not want to the bulls. Uh guests

11
00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:42,039
first or more, how are you doing before we dive

12
00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:43,640
into this, Well, I'm.

13
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,759
Speaker 2: Doing I'm doing a little bit better after Paris, I

14
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,759
got hit hard and now the whole family's down for

15
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,920
the count. But it's it's Uh. Look, when you get

16
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,679
hit with a Luca Dantage train out of nowhere, which

17
00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,600
is followed up by d'aron Fox, sac Lavine and everything,

18
00:00:58,159 --> 00:01:00,799
your entire health is like, Okay, fuck it, Let's get

19
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,320
back on track because we need to be rolling with

20
00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:07,159
this one. So thank you to the NBA for forcing

21
00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:10,120
me into a sixteen hour work day yesterday. It got

22
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,400
all the juices flowing in all the right ways.

23
00:01:13,159 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: I felt the same way, except then I'll sit back

24
00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:17,000
and remember being like I could be doing something that's

25
00:01:17,159 --> 00:01:19,599
actually difficult or matters in life, and then I feel

26
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,879
less bad, like I'm not doing manual labor for eighteen hours. Grant,

27
00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:26,319
you were doing manual labor, I believe, how are you doing?

28
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,879
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to decide if I need to get

29
00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:32,959
out my old Kevin Durant Warriors jersey or buy lebron one.

30
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,040
What are the customers cost? I don't know. It sounds

31
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,400
like you should get both, see right, is that mathematically possible?

32
00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:45,599
We'll see. Yeah, No, I'm doing well. This is I'm

33
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,120
excited to talk about this trade because it might make

34
00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:50,840
more sense than the one we've all spent a lot

35
00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:53,120
of time trying to parse and coming to know logical

36
00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:54,280
conclusions about.

37
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,319
Speaker 1: So I will begin with the details, and then let's

38
00:01:58,359 --> 00:01:59,000
go alphabetically.

39
00:01:59,000 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 3: Here.

40
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 1: We'll start with the bulls for the full trade details,

41
00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:03,719
though for anyone who's potentially living under a rock and

42
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,959
has not seen them yet, but in the three team trade.

43
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,439
The Chicago Bulls are receiving Zach Collins, Kevin Herder, Trey Jones,

44
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,479
and their own twenty twenty five first round pick. It

45
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,719
was owed to San Antonio with top ten protection and

46
00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:18,080
then top eight for the following two years. They just

47
00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:22,000
now got it back outright. The Kings receive City Sosoco,

48
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,560
Zach Lavine, Charlott's twenty twenty five first but it's actually

49
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,879
going to be two seconds in twenty twenty six. In

50
00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:31,159
twenty twenty seven, they will get Chicago's second round pick

51
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,919
this year, san Antonio's twenty twenty seven first round pick unprotected,

52
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,120
Denver's twenty twenty eight second round pick with top thirty

53
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,360
three protection that comes from San Antonio, a twenty twenty

54
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,680
eight second round pick its own that came via Chicago,

55
00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:47,680
and then they get Minnesota's twenty thirty one first round

56
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,919
pick from San Antonio. The Spurs received Aaron Fox and

57
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,639
the big name we all want to talk about, Jordan McLaughlin.

58
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,960
Mort I will start with you from this is just

59
00:02:58,159 --> 00:03:00,000
a lot happening. I found it funny that the King's

60
00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:01,840
thought maybe they could sneak in some business under the

61
00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,759
LUKA Doncic to the Lakers wave, But what did you

62
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,479
make of this for Chicago specifically?

63
00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,039
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, they didn't get a whole lot back,

64
00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:15,560
and I'm still flabbergasted at where Levine's value ended up being,

65
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,919
because he is genuinely good. I think the NBA atmosphere,

66
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,879
the NBA's sphere at large, has just grown way too

67
00:03:21,879 --> 00:03:25,719
negative about him. So I'm sort of like in that

68
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,439
place where I'm understanding of the fact that the Bulls

69
00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:30,840
just didn't have a lot of maneuverability with him, like

70
00:03:31,039 --> 00:03:33,080
that's just how the market kind of shugged out. But

71
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,840
at the same time, I'm looking at Sack Lavine, you know,

72
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,680
one of the arguably the second best shooting guard in

73
00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:43,840
Bull's history, one of the most efficient, high scoring guards

74
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520
over the past what seven years, who went for a

75
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,759
bag of peanuts, And you just that's unacceptable. And you

76
00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:51,520
can sit there and say, well, the market shuck out

77
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,960
the way it did, I don't care. If you are

78
00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:56,319
a front office. It's your job to get bang for

79
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,800
the buck in whatever capacity you need to do so.

80
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,400
So I gave them a D minus over at Jahoo Sports.

81
00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:05,840
I think what they got back was just a bunch

82
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,120
of bs, and I have this thing for you. This

83
00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:14,800
is courtesy of Eliash Schuster, who basically collected everything over

84
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,399
the past couple of years, and he said here, the

85
00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:20,000
Bulls have traded Demarta Rosen, Saclovine and Alex Carusoe, four,

86
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,000
Josh Gitty, Kevin Herder, Zack Collins, Trey Jones, Chris Duarte

87
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,399
two second round picks and writes to their own twenty

88
00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:32,199
twenty five first round draft pick back. That means not

89
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,079
a single, not a single additional first round draft pick

90
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:42,759
was acquired for Demarta Rosen, Saclovine and Alex Caruso. It's malpractice,

91
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,319
but that's just part of the norm for the Bulls.

92
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,879
I mean, it's I understand that they're trying to save money.

93
00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:51,519
I think and get worse like, oh, we'll play the lottery,

94
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,839
but then go full out, like if you if that's

95
00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:57,360
your plan, then it's again, it's unacceptable you didn't get

96
00:04:57,399 --> 00:05:00,680
more for Alex Crusoe back in the day. Unacceptable that

97
00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:04,079
you can't squeeze out more assets when you have a

98
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,800
beneficial situation. It's like, Dan, you've died and talked about

99
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,839
this before. Kobe White should be traded right now. Because

100
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,519
his trade value is only going to decline moving further.

101
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,279
I mean, look, right now, his value before the trade

102
00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:18,240
online is going to be higher than this summer because

103
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,920
teams trading for him or even Iodo Sumo as well,

104
00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:25,360
will have two playoff rounds or two playoff years instead

105
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,720
of one. So I'm hoping they're not done. I'm hoping

106
00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:32,480
that they somehow salvage this by trading Kobe White Iodo

107
00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:35,959
Sumo for a ton of draft equity because they need to.

108
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,639
I understand going all in for Cooper Flag. Sure, that's

109
00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:42,879
still gamble, like you need to have more bites at

110
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:43,279
the apple.

111
00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 1: How you feeling, mister Hughes.

112
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mostly agree. I just wonder, so would would

113
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,160
you guys agree that that bull's own twenty five first

114
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,759
that came back is the quote unquote crown jewel of

115
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,319
the return here. I mean unless you consider just not

116
00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:01,399
paying Zach Lavine to be the main driver of this,

117
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,639
which fine, congratulations, you took on thirty six million in

118
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,920
salary next year in the contracts you took back to

119
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,399
so that's ten million there.

120
00:06:08,759 --> 00:06:10,959
Speaker 1: They're going to get a trade exception from Kevin Hurt.

121
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, the trade maybe that's the crown jewel. In

122
00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:17,199
keeping with what mort said and what we've discussed plenty,

123
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,079
Dan is like, yeah, this, this can't just be the

124
00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:23,120
Bulls plans going into this deadline. Should not, and better

125
00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:26,319
not just be move Levine, especially if the goal is

126
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,800
to maximize the value of this first round or you

127
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,319
got back because the protections on it were such that

128
00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:33,560
had you just traded, you don't even need to trade

129
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,600
Levine right now, is my point. Trade Kobe White, trade Vucevic.

130
00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:40,800
Levine gets a you know, back soreness, and you tank

131
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,000
hard enough to maximize the value of the pick that's

132
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,920
got top ten protection that you're keeping. Anyway you readdress

133
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,040
trading Levine in the off season or down the road.

134
00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:50,639
I think the only way the Bulls can defend this

135
00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:53,319
is to say that Levine's value was not going to

136
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,920
get higher than it is right now. I don't agree

137
00:06:55,959 --> 00:06:58,920
with that. I just think that there's and if and

138
00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:01,279
if that is true, then I still think you just

139
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,720
it just doesn't justify what they got back. So I

140
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,879
don't know what letter grade i'd give it. It's certainly

141
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,319
a below average one. I just I don't I can't

142
00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:14,199
get past the idea that this pick is what the

143
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:16,920
bulls seem to want, and there was a way for

144
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,519
them to essentially keep it, perhaps indefinitely, if you really

145
00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:22,920
wanted to steer into the skid for multiple years, which

146
00:07:22,959 --> 00:07:26,079
is what they should do anyway. So I don't love it.

147
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,399
I guess it's just it came down to we can

148
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,920
loop ourselves into this trade that just seems inevitable between

149
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,120
Sacramento and San Antonio, and San Antonio has our pick

150
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,240
and we want it. What do you think, though, Dan,

151
00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:44,480
about like the idea that the the what you've protected

152
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,079
yourself from is conveying the number eleven pick, you know,

153
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,199
or something like that if you're the bulls, like that

154
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,399
just doesn't seem like enough motivation to me.

155
00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:54,759
Speaker 1: I think it rings hollow, and I struggle with how

156
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,279
to evaluate it against their past decisions. I think what

157
00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:01,000
more brought up about the Caruso trade that if you

158
00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:02,639
were going to go this route that you did with

159
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,199
Zach Levine, why weren't picks a priority in the Caruso

160
00:08:06,279 --> 00:08:09,079
trade then? And I think that's a fair criticism. I

161
00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:10,759
actually had a grade this trade too, and I gave

162
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,519
them a C minus. And I actually had read morrets

163
00:08:12,519 --> 00:08:14,839
it's always a little bit lower. The thing that I

164
00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:17,439
wonder if we're discounting of the two things, would be,

165
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,519
like you mentioned it, Grant, because there were out years

166
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,160
on those protections, like they are just now unencumbered when

167
00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:25,319
it comes to their own first round picks. There's value

168
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,000
in that because you could you could theoretically be bad,

169
00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:30,560
but if you're like the fifth worst team in the league,

170
00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:33,320
there's a chance that you still lose that It's it's minute,

171
00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:34,919
but like there's a chance that you would still lose

172
00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:38,279
that pick. And the other thing, which this might speak

173
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,279
to the low baseline against against which I judge this

174
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,639
front office. It it does seem to me that they're

175
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,399
going to do something. You don't make this trade and

176
00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:48,639
then do nothing else. Now do I think they'll trade

177
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,000
Kobe White? Nothing will surprise me anymore after Luka Doncics

178
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,879
was traded, so but I don't expect them to trade

179
00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:57,799
Kobe White. It does like make me think, though, okay,

180
00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:00,000
like they're gonna get rid of not just guys because

181
00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:02,360
they're helping them win, but they're not just gonna hold

182
00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:04,799
on to guys and try and chase that ten seed

183
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,480
and not think beyond this year and go year by year.

184
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,840
So it's fair I think critic them for their past mistakes.

185
00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:14,879
I don't. I actually was a little bit surprised that

186
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,600
Zaqualvine couldn't get you more in a vacuum. But I

187
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,720
mean when we have the Mavericks wondering whether they think

188
00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:23,200
Lukadanci is worth paying moving forward, it makes me wonder, Okay, well,

189
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,919
how our team's viewing the final two years and ninety

190
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,799
five million or whatever it is left on zach Lavine's deal.

191
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,080
So I don't think this was a good return, but

192
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,080
I think you can argue it was. Even if it

193
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,039
wasn't a necessary return, it it is at least semi

194
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,440
encouraging that it seems like this team might actually be

195
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,840
for once prioritizing the bigger picture.

196
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 3: I agree that that is the macro defense you can

197
00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:45,840
make for the Bulls is they can stand up to

198
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,000
critics like us and say you've been telling us to

199
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,799
sell forever, like can choose the direction we did it.

200
00:09:50,879 --> 00:09:52,720
I know you don't like how we did it, but

201
00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:54,600
we did it right like that. I think if you're

202
00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,320
gonna be defensive on the Bulls, behalf. That's a reasonable

203
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,240
case to make. And then I know, we don't like

204
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,279
the argument, but the market just was what it was

205
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,440
and this is the best you could do, and you know,

206
00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:06,440
sorry that it wasn't more favorable.

207
00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:11,399
Speaker 2: So Greg, you said something along the lines that the

208
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,559
Bulls were the team that wanted to just like loop

209
00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:18,080
themselves into this deal. I'm kind of thinking, because the

210
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,840
Kings and the Spurs have dealt with Chicago in recent

211
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,240
years and I've done so pretty effectively, I'm wondering if

212
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,360
they wanted to loop them in to just face the

213
00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:27,919
fuck out of.

214
00:10:27,919 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 3: Them that I saw somebody tweeted something to the effect of,

215
00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:34,039
like the Spurs saw the two suckers at the table

216
00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:36,799
and just keep making bets with them, Like that's really

217
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,840
what san Antonio is, just a predatory trade partner at

218
00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:43,480
this point. And like, I mean, considering how things have

219
00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:45,519
turned out when you'd make trades with the Kings and

220
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,639
the Bulls, like not the worst strategy.

221
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 2: Right, No. And the thing is, I've actually heard this before,

222
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,120
like I've never had it like confirmed from multiple sources,

223
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,000
but I have heard that the Bulls, among many teams,

224
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,360
are like one of the first calls just like that's

225
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,559
that's the team you kind of throw shit up against

226
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,759
the wall and just like, hey, our torres, my bestest friend,

227
00:11:08,159 --> 00:11:10,679
would you like to listen to this trade offer that

228
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,399
just is brings somethings off my head? And because there's

229
00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:16,360
like a non serio chance, he just says, sure, I'll go,

230
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,600
I'll do it. I'll just I'll call my owner first,

231
00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:21,799
Like it's just man that franchise. I feel so bad

232
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,879
for Bulls fans truly, I do, Like I understand why

233
00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,039
the apathy level is so high right now. I was

234
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,840
I was just scrolling through Twitter last night when this

235
00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:34,960
whole thing went through. There's like no reaction. There's just

236
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,159
like no cecle Bean had been there for seven year

237
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,759
people and like people loved him. They were like, yeah,

238
00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:43,440
all right, that happened. It's just like the most saddest

239
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,039
crowd ever, Like something good has to fall Chicago's way soon,

240
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,200
just for the fan base, not for the organization because

241
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,840
screw them, but for the fans. They deserve something now.

242
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 1: Is well, you're in impressions of this trade change it

243
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,799
all more if the Bulls do absolutely nothing before the

244
00:11:59,799 --> 00:12:01,559
death line versus if they like does it change it

245
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,200
all based on what they could still do with the

246
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,679
deadline whether it's move Kobe White, move Vouch, and we

247
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,519
probably shouldn't spend too much time on it because they

248
00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,600
might be moved by the time we're done recording this.

249
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 2: Right, Yes and no. So I I never subscribe to

250
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,320
the idea that you make a move that's bad and

251
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,000
then you follow it up with a good one and

252
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,360
then we, like in the aggregate, have to like say,

253
00:12:21,399 --> 00:12:23,879
oh this is great. Like no, Like you also have

254
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,799
to nail the individual moves, like if if you're losing

255
00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:29,320
one and then win another one, that's just one one.

256
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,200
It's not like two. Oh, it's like that's you split it.

257
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,159
So this particular trade that's not going to change my mind,

258
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,759
like they should have gotten more back. I do think

259
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,679
this point Savouch though getting moved because Jalen Smith is there, now,

260
00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:46,000
Sack Collins is there. I don't think they're going to

261
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,879
run with three centers for the rest of the year.

262
00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:52,279
Apparently Golden State has just asked for everyone who's like

263
00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:55,799
falls within the circle of star adjacent. I don't even

264
00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:57,639
want to call Booch that, but I think if you

265
00:12:57,759 --> 00:13:00,519
squint a little bit and look at the percentage this year,

266
00:13:00,519 --> 00:13:03,759
even though they're dropping, let's not talk about that. You know,

267
00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:06,080
you might be able to talk your way into that,

268
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,000
but like, what's what's the upside there? An inspiring contract

269
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,480
perhaps and a couple of second rounders, Like, Okay, is

270
00:13:14,519 --> 00:13:19,600
that going to make any necessary needle moves for the future.

271
00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:20,639
I don't think so.

272
00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:24,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think downward adjust your expectations, right, if this

273
00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:27,840
is what you're getting for Levine then and you can

274
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,399
if you can move Vucevic, I think again, trying to

275
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,840
keep expectations like relative to the deals that have happened,

276
00:13:32,879 --> 00:13:35,080
even though the Dauntach thing I think needs to be

277
00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:38,440
a separate class of deal. We don't draw any conclusions

278
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,519
about league wide trends from that deal. I think that's

279
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,759
a one off. But I think if you can move

280
00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:48,720
Vucevic for say the Warriors mostly expiring cobble together salaries

281
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:53,159
and a second I mean, that doesn't seem bad. It's

282
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,399
not an objectively good move, but relative to what you've

283
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,320
just gotten for Levine, maybe that's the best you can

284
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:57,720
hope for.

285
00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:00,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that there might be value and

286
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,159
Vooch would fall into this because he's the mid end

287
00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:04,720
contract that's on the books for like twenty something million

288
00:14:04,759 --> 00:14:07,279
dollars and my first instinct of this trade was they

289
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:10,919
think back both Kevin Herder and Zach Collins. But unless like,

290
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,039
we know what free agency is now, and we know

291
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,639
how trades work, even when they're lopsided, like very rarely,

292
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,159
like you need money to go out to do something,

293
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,720
and so with one year left you get out from

294
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,720
the final year of Zach Lavine's deal. I don't know

295
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,360
if this tront off is things in those terms. So

296
00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:25,279
now we have a bunch of these like if a

297
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,960
team this offseason, when more teams presumably will be looking

298
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,399
to do stuff, you now have all this different type

299
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,600
of salary matching fodder or ballast to then enter the

300
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,600
market to become a dumping ground or like maybe snake

301
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:38,720
in and get an opportunity for a player that another

302
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,759
team doesn't want. I don't know if they're thinking in

303
00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:42,440
those terms, but that would be the only logic I

304
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,919
could see behind keeping vouch into Oh, you.

305
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 2: Are giving them way too much credit. You're giving just

306
00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:51,240
the fact of like, oh, taking back players with long

307
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,559
term contracts for compensation of draft picks. Is that allowed?

308
00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:57,720
It's going to be their response. I mean, you're you're

309
00:14:57,799 --> 00:15:01,799
talking they just didn't well I mean, did they really like,

310
00:15:01,879 --> 00:15:04,600
did they really was that their intent? Or were they

311
00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:07,879
just like looking at a bunch of offers and just go, well,

312
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,519
we feel this is the best. Look. I just don't

313
00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:16,799
have any faith whatsoever in this front office doing anything

314
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,759
of significant value. Like, honestly, I'm at that point where

315
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,759
if the Bulls have decided now to fully enter into

316
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,759
a rebuild, I think now's the time to switch front

317
00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,000
office because do I trust this current administration to actually

318
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,039
succeed in building up a new version of the Bulls?

319
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,919
Hell no, absolutely not. This is a team that couldn't

320
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:43,120
even squeeze as second out of Oka see for Alex Caruso.

321
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:46,919
I'm sorry, but I keep going back to that because

322
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,080
that was the smoking gun for me. Like I've always

323
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,919
known they were bad negotiators. I've always heard the noise,

324
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,799
but like the fact that they pulled that, it's just

325
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,159
like it's egregious and now again it's like you're taking

326
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,159
on long term money, you're only getting your own pickback.

327
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,360
Like again, no additional first rounders for.

328
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,519
Speaker 3: Second part of this deal too.

329
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:08,879
Speaker 2: Look, and that's the thing so many people don't know.

330
00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:13,240
John Paxton is still part of the organization he's like

331
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:16,679
an advisor and whatnot. Years ago, many years ago, he

332
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,399
was out basically saying a second rounder, like the inclusion

333
00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:20,960
of the second rounder is never going to change my

334
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,879
mind on the trade. Like, if that's what it takes

335
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,000
for us to get a trade done, we'll give that

336
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,440
bad boy up. Like okay, fine, that shows me how

337
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,320
you look at draft picks, Like that's it's candy. You'll

338
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,279
throw it that way. It's not important to you. This

339
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,320
new front office reeks of the same. It's Garpex two

340
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,960
point zero. So like we can sit here and go, oh,

341
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:44,519
what are Chicago's long term plans? And I'm just like,

342
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,960
in two years, you're gonna be right back where we

343
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:50,039
are right now. It doesn't matter what their long term

344
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,039
plans are. It really doesn't matter.

345
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,639
Speaker 1: I guess I don't disagree with it. I'm sorry, I

346
00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:56,440
don't disagree with anything you're saying. But do we and

347
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,200
I mean, this is the two of you. But like

348
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,720
without Cruiser, we knew the market for him was different

349
00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:04,000
than the return that they got with Levine. The reporting

350
00:17:04,039 --> 00:17:06,119
has just always been that they weren't like people wanted

351
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,839
you have to attach something to get rid of him,

352
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,559
And so I guess I would be more inclined to really, like,

353
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,720
because I'm about to hammer the kings when we get

354
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,480
to them, I'd be really inclined to hammer the bulls

355
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,400
if I thought that there was an alternative outcome here

356
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,440
for them. And I guess just because if we if

357
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,839
we rewinded, let's say, two off seasons ago before he

358
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,160
got injured last year, are we sure that like the

359
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,400
market for him would have been a lot better. I

360
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,319
guess maybe I'm just curious as to, like, if we're

361
00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:33,880
gonna hammer them for this specific return, Like, what do

362
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,160
we think the all like with Alex Caruso, just like

363
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,039
we knew there would have been.

364
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 3: A pit of packers.

365
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,599
Speaker 1: I had at least a pick, if not too and

366
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,880
we knew at some point they were multiple first round

367
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,279
pick on the table. I struggled to see the teams

368
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:47,000
we wanted to trade for Zack Lavine, by and large,

369
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,880
were never going to trade for zach Lavine.

370
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:52,039
Speaker 2: No, But then then Grant kind of nailed it. He said,

371
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,720
you know, then you could flip Kobe White. I'd assume

372
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,160
with those guys like you could lead the tank with

373
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,960
sag and charge, and it's always easier to make trades

374
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,240
in the off season as opposed to in season, and

375
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,319
come the off season, you have one full year of

376
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,880
Saclovine's salary. The conversation level off, so like his deal

377
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,799
is shortened by a year. At that point in time,

378
00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:17,240
at least try it. There was no rush to get

379
00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:20,039
out of Saclovine. That's the kind of a I think

380
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,119
Grant just nailed it here. There was no rush for

381
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,839
them to say, oh, like, we're winning too much because

382
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:27,039
of Zack Lavine, Like, no, you're you're doing pretty awful

383
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,680
just with him in the lineup as well, because you can't,

384
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,279
you know, can't construct a proper roster. That what they

385
00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:35,720
should have done. It was the zactly like move off

386
00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:38,240
of Kobe, move off of Iowa. While they have value

387
00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:40,880
and great value because their contracts are like chef's kiss,

388
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,599
it's they're perfect, especially for competing teams that are, you know,

389
00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:48,000
a little bit rich at this point. You could have

390
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:49,920
given up so much, or you could have you're gonna

391
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,279
have taken so many draft assets in in that regard

392
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:54,359
and then just rolled with Sack for the rest of

393
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,079
the year. They would have been bad regardless. Go into

394
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,480
twenty twenty five off season, where everyone is a little

395
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,480
bit mellow. Everyone's like, oh, okay, we can actually do

396
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:03,319
five for one deals, four for one deals, if that's

397
00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:05,839
what we want to do, like kick the can down

398
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,359
the road, Sack like instead of panic trade him, you know,

399
00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:12,759
on in a deadline, it's it's they have no ambision.

400
00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:16,039
Speaker 3: Grab what you were going to say something for and Dripple,

401
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,079
I was just going to say, like, well, as More

402
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,079
was talking, I wondered like, could I could you just

403
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,359
offer Kobe White to the Spurs for that twenty five

404
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,839
first back? Like I don't know, maybe maybe that if

405
00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:28,319
you wanted to just kind of simplify this whole process,

406
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,079
maybe that could have been the way. And then you

407
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,680
all right, I love you so much.

408
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,799
Speaker 2: I love you so much because I've been pitching that

409
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,759
for what a year now. Yeah.

410
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just going to say, like, I totally

411
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:43,119
agree that you know, this organization, this front office, and

412
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,440
and you mentioned Garpak's two point zero, so really two

413
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,160
front offices have kind of established what their priorities are.

414
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,960
And that just makes me think we need to kick

415
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,400
the blame up the org chart to ownership because that's

416
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,599
the constant and if and if the argument I think

417
00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:58,480
and it's it's a fair one is that this sort

418
00:19:58,519 --> 00:20:02,279
of behavior has defined the Bulls for you know, what

419
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,920
amounts to more than one managerial or you know, front

420
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,240
office tenure than its ownership, and then that's bleaker because

421
00:20:09,319 --> 00:20:12,279
there's that's way less likely to change than the front office.

422
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:14,400
That's all. I just wanted to rain even harder on

423
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:16,640
any kind of Bulls parade that might or might not

424
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:17,200
be happening.

425
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's totally fair. I am one of the

426
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,720
first ones to bring that up as well. It's it's

427
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,839
it's so depressing because this is a team that's going

428
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,319
to go into like inheritance. It's going to go down

429
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,960
to kids like Bulls fans already know the name of

430
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,960
like Jerry Reinstor's grandchild, Joey, which like, oh yeah, he's

431
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,160
gonna take that. That's that's where we are. And apparently

432
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,240
I read somewhere, I think about a year ago or

433
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,519
something like that that the ownership group's primary source of

434
00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:49,279
income now is not outside of the Bulls, it is

435
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:53,000
the Bulls. So that means there's less incentive to move

436
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:55,480
off of that because they're still printing money off of

437
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,480
the Bulls brand. They're printing money, and you'll you'll go

438
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,359
every anywhere, like even in Europe wherever there's like I

439
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,480
just came back from Paris, for example, it should have

440
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,640
been loaded with Wemby jerseys, and of course it was.

441
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,279
But like the second team in like the whole city

442
00:21:09,319 --> 00:21:13,759
picture without a shadow hood out, bulls gear, bulls gear everywhere,

443
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:18,000
bulls caps, bulls jerseys, you know. And I say, also

444
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:20,480
this like Air Jordan brand because that still has the

445
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,839
thing over here. They're printing money, so that ownership group

446
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,240
is not going to sell unless someone comes in, you know,

447
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:29,680
with one of those you know, now you have mine

448
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,039
attention kind of offers.

449
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: Are we ready to move on to the Sacramento Kings.

450
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 3: I'm ready for you to go in.

451
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna start. You're gonna start with you Grant,

452
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,880
because the Sacramento Kings are your team, as we've a

453
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,000
stackised multiple times. This podcast just a review for anyone

454
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,400
who might be skipping around. So in to Sacramento. We

455
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,200
have CD Soisoco, Zach Lavine, Charlotte's twenty twenty five first

456
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,079
which will be two seconds, Chicago's twenty twenty five second,

457
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,519
San Antonio's twenty twenty seven first Denver's twenty twenty eight

458
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,000
second top thirty three protection their own twenty twenty eight

459
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,400
second round pick a Chicago initially at that, and then

460
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,200
Minnesota is twenty thirty one first round pick, and then

461
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,599
they are sending out dearon Fox and Jordan McLoughlin, Grant.

462
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,960
Your reaction when we were texting about this trade when

463
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,359
it first went down was just maybe you were just

464
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,720
so you held everything to the Luca Doncs, to the

465
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:18,799
Lakers bar, and so maybe you were just you've seen

466
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:20,240
nonplussed about this one, though.

467
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:23,279
Speaker 3: I think that's a factor for sure. I don't know

468
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,079
how to like recalibrate my expectations for trades anymore, I think,

469
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,279
so I don't, So let's start with this Zach. I

470
00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:33,680
think I agree with more than Zach Lavine. The needle

471
00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:36,119
went way too far toward the negative on Zack Lavine.

472
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,559
I think Zach Lavine is a really, really good offensive

473
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:42,319
player who makes sense for a lot of teams, and

474
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,160
I think his value had sunk too low. I think

475
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,279
he is the exact wrong kind of player for the

476
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,680
Kings to be targeting just because one like, congrats you've

477
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,119
reassembled the DeRozan Levine tandem that got you tenth in

478
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,839
the East for several years in a row, and now

479
00:22:56,839 --> 00:22:59,920
you're like, it's it's too perfect that that was thought

480
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,319
to be a good idea by the Kings, who just

481
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,039
continue to build rosters that seem like fantasy rosters. I guess.

482
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:11,400
So I like zach Lavine the player. I think that

483
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:15,319
if this were another team getting him for this package,

484
00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:17,640
I'd feel better about it. I just don't love the fit.

485
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:21,000
I guess it's possible since I just made the argument

486
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,039
that if you hold on to zach Lavine as the Bulls,

487
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:25,839
his value increases, and so it follows that the Kings

488
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,559
may be able to flip him for something doesn't feel

489
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:30,880
like a player they added to flip, because if they

490
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720
were interested in flipping for draft assets, there are other

491
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:35,799
constructions you could get into with the Spurs where you

492
00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:39,160
bring back rebuild D type pieces. That does not seem

493
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,640
to have been the impetus here. So I don't like

494
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,279
any of the picks. You know, we've gone over at

495
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:48,160
the twenty thirty one Minnesota first, I suppose is the best,

496
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,400
but there's almost no chance this front office is here

497
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,960
to enjoy whatever that becomes. So you know, I guess

498
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,240
in some ways you could credit them for being taking

499
00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,240
a long view, like that's a good asset to have.

500
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,480
Great that Charlotte first is as fake of a first

501
00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:06,519
as has ever existed, and the Spurs first, if things

502
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:10,000
don't go totally sideways, is in the mid to late twenties.

503
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,480
So I just you got off Kevin. Let's say the

504
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,599
positives you got off Kevin Herder's money. You didn't have

505
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,640
to take back Zach Collins, which is nice. You would

506
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,799
maybe have seen that as a possibility. Somehow, I'm just

507
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,920
unmoved by it. I think it's okay. I think this

508
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,720
there's clearly more moves to be made by the Kings now,

509
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,039
who don't have point guards unless you think Devin Carter's

510
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:36,400
really ready and Malik Munk can do that. I think ultimately,

511
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:39,200
and we've talked about this a little, if this was

512
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,400
the best you could do for Daron Fox, you wait

513
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,440
until the offseason again, And that's such a it's a

514
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,599
crutch of an argument to make because we don't know

515
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,720
what was better that might have been out there in

516
00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:53,160
a couple months or a few months. I'm just I'm

517
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,000
not persuaded that this was the best you were ever

518
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,200
gonna do when trading Daron Fox. I guess that's where

519
00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:59,680
i'd leave it.

520
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna be interested to get more thoughts in

521
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,400
a second, because we diverged a lot on this one.

522
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,319
I think this is despicable business by Sacramento.

523
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,759
Speaker 3: Here, what specifically do you do you not like about

524
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,200
it the worst aspect.

525
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: Well, it's a continuation of what they've been doing where

526
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:17,759
let's so let's forget about the part where the dearon

527
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:21,079
Fox situation was probably salvageable, Like this is years of

528
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,880
built up Like you screwed up the way the Mike

529
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,000
Brown situation was handled. You didn't deflect blame from him

530
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,039
enough with that was pretty bad. Now, what has been

531
00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:31,799
our biggest complaints with this roster over and over again

532
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,440
is that they have ignored the biggest needs for years,

533
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,880
which was getting at least another wing type of player

534
00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:40,920
and a change up like reserve big or maybe even

535
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,319
someone upfront who could play next to the bonus. Now

536
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,359
you go through a trade and you what you did

537
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,319
is what you did over the offseason where you addressed

538
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,920
preserving or maybe upgrading the status quo of your strengths

539
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,160
on offense and I think that Zaclovine is a floorce

540
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,480
basically upgrade over Dearon Fox. He's a better off the

541
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:00,160
dribble three point shooter. He's gonna give you the same,

542
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,400
if not more, rim pressure, and he's the better off

543
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,119
ball shooter as well. At the same time, there's a

544
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,440
playmaking deficit here, and for anyone I did acknowledge this,

545
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,960
like Okay, you have the bonus and Monk and even Levine,

546
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,000
uh and DeRozan as well to bridge that gap. So

547
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,079
Bonis and DeMar Derozen have been two of the easiest

548
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:22,079
players to gain plan around in the postseason when they've

549
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,000
entered the playoffs. You've now added Malik monk Is. He's

550
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:28,240
really good. I don't view him as just like Okay,

551
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:30,880
he's gonna go up against other team's best lineups, break

552
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,480
down the defense and set everybody up. Darn Fox is

553
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,319
the we know Zach Levine's not that guy. He's like

554
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,799
a tertiary type playmaker, which is fine. You've now as

555
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:41,480
big of complaints we have as Darren Fox is inconsistency,

556
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,960
You are worse on defense, like the lifts for Keyon

557
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,160
Ellis and Keegan Murray just got a lot heavier, and

558
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,079
you could say, all right, Devin Carter's now in the

559
00:26:50,079 --> 00:26:53,559
pipeline and playing awesome. You don't like you're still looking

560
00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:55,720
at all, right, well, where's the wing, where's the different

561
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,559
type of reserve bigs? And are you confident that lineups

562
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,000
with de Rosen and Levine and even Monk if they're

563
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,400
gonna play them together, Like, are you confident in what

564
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,279
you're gonna have behind them, which is going to be

565
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,720
Keegan Murray? And that's basically it, because that's not what

566
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:10,559
the bonus does. You got Grantar He said this, you

567
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:12,960
have maybe one premium asset out of this deal, and

568
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,000
that's only because what Anthony Edwards leave Minnesota like that

569
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,200
was the lottery ticket kind of on Minnesota's pick. And

570
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:21,279
maybe they'll age out and go through years of turmoil

571
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,920
or whatever. But you couldn't even get I think this

572
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:25,680
was the big mark for me. You couldn't even get

573
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,720
San Antonio's twenty twenty five first. You got their twenty

574
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,240
twenty seven first, Like that twenty twenty five first, even

575
00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:33,839
after this trade could theoretically still be a lottery pick,

576
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,839
and you couldn't get that. The only thing I recognize

577
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,319
is Daron Fox wanted to go to San Antonio, maybe

578
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:43,759
the market wasn't as expansive for his services. But to

579
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,240
Grant's point, then you just wait for the offseason, and

580
00:27:46,279 --> 00:27:49,160
I bet like something similar is on the table from

581
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400
San Antonio. If not, maybe there are more teams willing

582
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,799
to roll the dice on dearon Fox, who, by the way,

583
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,839
never came close to giving off like Jimmy Butler withholding

584
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160
services vibes or telling other teams he wouldn't sign with

585
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,039
them outright. And so if you're a Kings fan, I

586
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,759
feel bad for you, and I would be wildly disenchanted

587
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:09,799
with this franchise because even if what you've done is

588
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,079
kind of treadwater for the regular season, I don't know

589
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,119
how you look at this roster as currently constructed and

590
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,279
think that it's better fit for the postseason. And finally,

591
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,319
the fact that this front office was allowed to make

592
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,920
this move when they are responsible for bumbling the darn

593
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,119
Fox situation and repeatedly ignoring or failing to address or

594
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,359
touting their almost acquisitions of all these players who would

595
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,839
have helped them is just it's a farce to me.

596
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:38,640
And so the return on balance given the circumstances probably

597
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,519
isn't terrible, but you've just now missed on way too

598
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:45,240
many fronts over the past more than a year. But

599
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:47,599
even just kind of like isolating it to this season,

600
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,279
just everything from the start of the demise with Mike

601
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:52,839
Brown and his extension to the way this darn Fox

602
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,799
situation was handled, to the negotiation. None of the Spurs

603
00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:57,839
is young player, Like you couldn't get a Kelvin Johnson

604
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,119
out of this. No, Like okay, Steph Castle off limits,

605
00:29:01,119 --> 00:29:03,799
Like you don't even get a flyer on like Malachlive

606
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,000
Randam or Blake Wesley. Maybe you didn't want that, like

607
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:10,680
Jeremy Sohan, Like I just just a complete failure organizationally

608
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:11,640
on this part on there.

609
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to step on what I imagine if

610
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,680
more you're a little less rough on the Kings here

611
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:20,359
on some of the points you might want to make.

612
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,119
But just to argue against myself a little bit, I

613
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:29,440
do wonder if we are giving enough weight to the Spurs,

614
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:34,000
just like incomprehensible amount of leverage here where they can

615
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,480
set the price, tell the Kings we're gonna sign him

616
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,599
when he leaves, So take this now, or this is

617
00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:42,960
all you're gonna get now. The Kings probably still should

618
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,240
have called that bluff, I think, and wait until the

619
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,720
off season. But that's the best way for me to

620
00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:50,519
rationalize this from Sacramento's perspective. I don't know if I

621
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:53,079
agree with that. I think maybe you do call that

622
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:56,000
bluff and the offer does get better, But I imagine that

623
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,200
that's a component of this from the Spurs side. More,

624
00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:00,640
go ahead, sorry, step on it.

625
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:02,759
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, that's fine, because I think the leverageman

626
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:06,400
is totally fair. It's one that I've been clamoring on

627
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:09,720
like it for a while now, since the news broke

628
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:12,720
that he wanted to go there. I gave the trade

629
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,279
an a for the Kings, and I did so because

630
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,039
while I agree with you Dan in terms of, oh,

631
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:20,200
they probably should have kept him, they probably should have

632
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,119
rolled it into the offseason and whatnot, That's not how

633
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,440
I can approach a trade like I'm going to grade

634
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,000
what actually like the return and only the return. Like Saclavien. Again,

635
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,680
I've been saying this, I think he's grotesquely underraider. I've

636
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,039
actually wanted him on the Kings for a year and

637
00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:38,559
a half now. Now. Granted I wanted to pare him

638
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,839
with Fox and some bonus. I didn't want him to

639
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,799
be paired up with the Marta Rosen. So this is

640
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,319
like one of those situations where okay, like we can

641
00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:48,880
talk about the fit, but I do think that in

642
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,720
a sped up offense and actually having a Levine to

643
00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:55,160
be installed next to a is a bonus, an elite

644
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,880
playmaker or just like borderline e lead, whatever it is.

645
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,599
I don't think Lavine has ever played with a playmaker

646
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,559
like this. We can argue Lonzo, but it was like

647
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:07,200
a thirty five games sample when he was healthy and

648
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,839
then you know, miss two and a half years, so

649
00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:12,680
I don't think that really counts now Levine, who's for

650
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,559
three years, we're one of the best off ball players

651
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:17,880
in the league, not just spotting up but also like cutting.

652
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,519
He's going to have a field day playing off as

653
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:24,160
a bonus, So like if you want to be competitive,

654
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:27,359
and clearly the Kings are not looking to take a

655
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,839
major step back by doing this, Otherwise they would have

656
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:32,279
taken on Levine, so I have to grade it through

657
00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:38,559
that perspective. Now, should they have gone into different direction, Yes, absolutely,

658
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,759
because if you're training away to Aaron Fox, you should

659
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:43,680
have basically said, look, that's not just the franchise, but

660
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,799
that's a pretty good segue for us to go into

661
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,640
rebuilding process. But that's not what they wanted to do.

662
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,240
So I have to grade them on what they are

663
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:55,240
trying to do. And they got a spacing, a volume

664
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:58,720
spacer in there, which they've lacked for a long while now.

665
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Who can play off of elite playmakers, who can play

666
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,480
off ball? Who isn't going to you know, take over

667
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:07,680
processions again and again and again. And yes, I understand

668
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,480
that the draft picks aren't necessarily great. I get that.

669
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,240
I will say that the thirty one Minnesota and grant

670
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:16,160
you mention it, I dig that that's going to be

671
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,799
a genuine trade asset in my opinion, because I have

672
00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:24,079
a hard time seeing Minnesota basically keeping Anthony David. Wow,

673
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
we're training Anthony Davis once again, Anthony Edwards at this rate.

674
00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:32,839
So I think given the ledge that San Antonio held here,

675
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,519
given the situation that they were in, and I can't

676
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:39,039
I can't sit here and say that all wasn't really

677
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:41,440
that bad behind the scenes, I don't think. So I

678
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,200
have no idea, like we have no idea, what the

679
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,599
hell went on. We have no idea if Darren Fox

680
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:50,319
and Monti McNair got into a fist fight, we have

681
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,359
no idea what happened behind the state, behind the scenes.

682
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:56,880
The fact that this all materialized so quickly makes me

683
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,519
believe that there's something behind it that we are not

684
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:03,759
privy too yet. So I think given all that context,

685
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,319
they did pretty well. And they also got off Kevin

686
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:11,240
hrders deel like. I don't think that's nothing either. Would

687
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,880
I wanted more if I'm the Kings, yes, of course

688
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200
I would. But if this is what the market basically

689
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,839
maximized me on right now, and I wanted to make

690
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,200
a deal right now, I can't hate the return. I

691
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:22,680
just can't.

692
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,119
Speaker 1: Okayank you and genuine question, I'm not even trying to

693
00:33:25,119 --> 00:33:28,440
be an asshole here. Why is that different from the

694
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,519
way we would be evaluating what the Bulls did with

695
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:33,119
zach Lavine right now? Because you feel like you're emphasized

696
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,359
like we have to exist in the present, so we

697
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,599
can't critics like be too critical for the Bulls of

698
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,079
their past mistakes or the Kings for their past mistakes.

699
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,039
Like the Bulls, it was look at all this stuff

700
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:44,759
that they've done that's bad, Like we have to hammer

701
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:46,759
them for the way that they handle the zac lavine trade.

702
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:49,559
Speaker 2: Well, so so you're arguing that because the Kings have

703
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:52,720
a poor track record, why would you.

704
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: Trust this front office? I mean, Chicago's not over Chicago's

705
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,079
front office, But like they've decided that, oh it didn't

706
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:01,240
work with Levine and to rose in and a defensive

707
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,839
liability at center, but maybe it works here.

708
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: Totally fair question. I think what lends me some credence

709
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,800
to this in is the fact that they actually did

710
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,760
pretty well a couple of years back and actually looked

711
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,599
like they were heading towards some kind of identity. But

712
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,559
I do agree with you because Kings fans and rightfully

713
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,039
so we're asking the question, should this Rondovs be the

714
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:23,719
one handling a rebuild? But they're not going to enter

715
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,320
a rebuild from what we're seeing right now, like otherwise

716
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,039
you are not training for cyclovine. So I'm basically saying, oh, look,

717
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,800
given the context of the situation, let them go into that,

718
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,800
see where it shakes out. And look this again, Grays

719
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,840
are always fluid, right, Like I'm giving them a name

720
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,079
based on the situation because I think they were backed

721
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,159
into a corner here. I think, like the Aaron Fox

722
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,159
is also represented by Clutch, and we know that when

723
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,320
Clutch wants something, they usually get it. I think this

724
00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:50,719
is one of those deals that are so difficult to

725
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,039
maneuver and for them to actually get a player in

726
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:56,760
return who I think is also a caliber player as

727
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,480
well as can we say two and a half first

728
00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:01,159
rounders because of that Charlotte one.

729
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: Perhaps, yeah, maybe you get a lot of like the

730
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,960
Charlotte seconds could be pretty good and like so that

731
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:08,599
they probably got, like they got some intriguing seconds.

732
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,079
Speaker 2: Yes, well, they actually did pretty well in replenishing their

733
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:15,760
draft cupboard. Is kind of my point here. So I'm

734
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,360
just not left with this bad taste in my mouth

735
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,960
because I'm very much assuming that they were their backs

736
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,679
were up against the wall. But I do think you

737
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,599
raise a very good point because if it comes to

738
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:31,039
the Kings having to like face facts and say, all right,

739
00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:34,880
we have to enter rebuild, should they trust Monty McNair

740
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,639
and everyone there to conduct that.

741
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:40,519
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, it's clear you are you both

742
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:42,320
already said this, but it's made even more clear by

743
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,119
the return on this trade that they have no plans

744
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,440
to do that they couldn't even get And maybe I

745
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,360
mean this is the Spurs being smart. The kids couldn't

746
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,199
even get their own pick swap back. Like, how honestly,

747
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,960
if I'm if san Antonio would have put that on

748
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,559
the table, how much of that grant would it have

749
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:57,360
been worth? Like what would you have been allowed to

750
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,280
have been taken out of this trade of san Antonio

751
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,760
put the twenty thirty swap, Like you can have the

752
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,519
rights back to your twenty thirty pick on the table.

753
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what i'd say in a specific

754
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,400
answer to that, but that I'd rather have that than

755
00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:13,800
would you rather have that than both the san Antonio

756
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,920
first and the Minnesota and the and certainly I'd give

757
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,039
me that over the Charlotte quote unquote first and the

758
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,719
san Antonio first. I think, although that's another one that's

759
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,880
so far off, kind of like the twenty thirty one

760
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,119
Minnesota pick, where Minie McNair's got to be thinking like

761
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:31,039
that's somebody else is gonna be the one that sees

762
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:34,760
that pick get made. But yeah, I don't know, I

763
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:39,199
really I think you YouTube being so far apart on it.

764
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,440
I feel like I'm falling somewhere in the middle, where

765
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,760
I think the key arguments are the leverage san Antonio

766
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,360
had and the King's right or wrong deciding we're not rebuilding,

767
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,039
we want to star in here and we're going to

768
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:54,880
try to make the best of it. I guess I

769
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,000
think that's probably the wrong choice, but it's the one

770
00:36:57,039 --> 00:36:59,000
they made, and in light of that, I guess this

771
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:03,199
package becomes more defensible. And like I think, I don't know,

772
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,920
it's again, it's so easy to say, wait until the

773
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,440
off season. Can't you imagine though, that, Like, you know,

774
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:12,199
if you do that, the rest of this season is done,

775
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,920
because you're gonna have Dearn Fox playing with a foot

776
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,599
out the door or not playing, and then you have to,

777
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,760
you know what I mean, Like it just maybe it's

778
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,039
worth something to turn the second half of this season

779
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:26,039
if you're the Kings into into a product that fans

780
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:28,400
will care about as opposed to one that you know,

781
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,079
just I don't, I don't know. I'm just trying to

782
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:33,800
kind of justify me falling in between you two guys.

783
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: Would if you had gone, let's say, the route of

784
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,400
not of just holding him to the off season, even

785
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,199
if you wanted to go the direction of still being competitive.

786
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,559
Do you think it there would have been more value

787
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:46,639
though in Okay, now we're keeping our twenty twenty five

788
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:48,880
first round or that's ode to Atlanta, where this probably

789
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,559
makes it more likely that it conveys, Like so we're

790
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:53,559
gonna up the value that pick and then we'll either

791
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:55,440
get a player in here or that sweetens a different

792
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,000
type of move we're looking to make.

793
00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:57,159
Speaker 3: It.

794
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: Just I don't know if they would have gotten something

795
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,440
that made me feel like san Antonio conceded, like in

796
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,440
the negotiation, like if you would have gotten the Smotpack,

797
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,559
if you have gotten even a young one of their youngsters.

798
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,639
I don't think Miselle or Steph Cassel was ever realistic,

799
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:14,280
but you could have gotten Julian Champenny. I might have

800
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,440
felt like a little bit better about this deal. And

801
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:20,679
I wanted to talk about this with the Spurs. I'll

802
00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:23,320
throw it to you, Grant, but I do think it's

803
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,760
Germaine to the Kings. How do you view it against Okay, well,

804
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,320
Daron Fox, let's just sit like paying him moving forward

805
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,559
and like the bare minimum. Let's say I don't think

806
00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:34,519
he was gonna get it supermax. Just I don't think

807
00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:36,760
he was gonna make all NBA, especially with everything that happened,

808
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,039
but just looking at it through the context of Okay,

809
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,639
a four year, two hundred and twenty eight point six

810
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:45,360
million dollar extension does that again? I want to ask

811
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,280
that same question with san Antonio, but with regards to Sacramento,

812
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:50,719
was that like part of the calculus here? Like O

813
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,039
re entirely sure if they were the ones that initiated

814
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:56,360
these talks as reported, like, do you think that's part

815
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,079
of the calculus of maybe they didn't want to pay

816
00:38:58,119 --> 00:38:59,039
Daron Fox like.

817
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,039
Speaker 3: That, they being the Kings, didn't want to pay him

818
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:08,960
like that. I it's hard for me to imagine given

819
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,239
the Kings kind of emphasis on winning now and just

820
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,480
general willingness to overpay players that are good not great.

821
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,880
If we're going to cite the Sabonis example, uh, and

822
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,079
we're gonna cite the kinds of players they pursue and prioritize,

823
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:28,880
they love good not great. Fox is probably closer to

824
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,960
great than good, but he's on that spectrum somewhere in

825
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,079
between the two. I don't think. I don't think that

826
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:36,840
was gonna be a concern for the Kings and the Supermax.

827
00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:41,360
Maybe maybe, but I kind of doubt that too, I

828
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,760
actually think so. I hope that answers your question. I

829
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,360
actually think we've got to talk about the Spurs side

830
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,599
of this now, which which brings part of that same

831
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,000
consideration like into the picture, because depending on what san

832
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:57,480
Antonio does, you could view Fox as a guy that

833
00:39:57,519 --> 00:39:59,400
they will pay for for two twenty nine and he's

834
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,679
their second best player of the first phase of the

835
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:04,239
Wemby era, and is that good enough is a fair question.

836
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:08,039
Or maybe he's a guy that you don't view as

837
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:10,960
san Antonio as the second play, as the second guy.

838
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,719
Maybe he's a stop gap until you find a better second.

839
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,639
Maybe they envision him being the third option, and is

840
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:19,000
that worth four for two twenty nine. I think the

841
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:21,679
Spur side of this is really interesting just because they,

842
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,320
out of all these teams, are the ones that have

843
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,719
the blanket slate, that have the most options that are

844
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,519
hardest to gauge in terms of a timeline. So I

845
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:31,760
don't know more. Maybe you have thoughts on do you

846
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,800
view Fox. Let's just keep it simple to start and

847
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,079
take it where you want. Is Fox the Wemby running

848
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,400
mate that they were right to view in that way?

849
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,880
Or is he something less than that?

850
00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: I actually consider him less than that, or rather, let

851
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,760
me rephrase what was reported initially as oh, the spur

852
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,639
should go all in on tieron Fox. That was then

853
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:57,519
I geology that I disagreed with because I don't think

854
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,199
it's it's necessarily as clean a fit as a lot

855
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,280
of people make it out ass you know, in my

856
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,320
personal opinion, I think you need tops to my spacing

857
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,480
around Wemby, and you can't cheat off of Fox occasionally,

858
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:12,880
especially as a shooter, because you know, you had that

859
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,519
one spike and then it's down to like thirty two

860
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,400
forty three percent again from the outside. So the offensive

861
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,960
fit is I think it's a little bit muddy. The

862
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,280
defensive fitna By immediately, like just immediately, because he's such

863
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,360
a blur and he's got long arms, athletic as.

864
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: Hell, made sorry with anyone nearly as talented as Steph

865
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,119
Castle is on that end of the floor right now,

866
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,440
like it, you know, positionally, No, I.

867
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: Mean Davion Mitchell is a very different type of defender. Yeah,

868
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,639
like yeah, he's already a one position defender to Castle

869
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,159
might be a three position defender.

870
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, no, it's fair. I it's a really good question. Actually,

871
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,320
I hadn't. I hadn't considered yet that like that's gonna

872
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,519
be I think I think the Spurs are well on

873
00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:58,880
their way to building one of the most ridiculous defenses

874
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,079
in the NBA, honestly, especially when so Hank gets right

875
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:04,840
like he's been in and out of the lineup all year,

876
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,960
Like imagine when he goes into year four next year

877
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,360
with all that data under him. Well, all right, I

878
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,519
don't know if Fox is that guy, but I think

879
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,320
he's good enough to have some level of staying power,

880
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,480
and the fact that he's not going to be on

881
00:42:18,519 --> 00:42:20,719
a forty five percent max is going to make it easier.

882
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,039
Spurs still have and this is ridiculous to think about

883
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:26,119
that they still have two years left on Wempy's rookie deal,

884
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,360
so they have time to figure this thing out. They

885
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,280
have so much flexibility. I mean, have we just fully

886
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,519
leaned into this burst now? Because I just want to

887
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:35,119
go there.

888
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,119
Speaker 1: Well I I, oh, yeah, we fully leaned in this burst, So.

889
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: Go ahead, all right, all right? Cool? Because can we

890
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,239
just talk about how they cooked last night? Can we

891
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,519
talk about how you know, they made James Harden look like,

892
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,199
you know, flipping burgers when he was in Houston, like, oh,

893
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,920
I'm a chef. Yeah, no, No, the Spurs cooked, they cooked.

894
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,639
This was a ridiculous They didn't give up the Hawks pick.

895
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,880
I was very verbal about that on Blue Sky when

896
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,840
everyone's like, oh, like that pig has to be given up,

897
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,840
Like not after the Jaalen Johnson injury. No way were

898
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,639
they going to look at that and go, yeah, that's movable. No, no,

899
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,079
not without severe protections that that wasn't in the fold.

900
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,639
They didn't get off Stephan Stephan Castle. They even kept

901
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,320
Julian Champagne. As you pointed out, Dan Player, who I

902
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:20,679
think I.

903
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: Think he was the most important player to protect in

904
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:23,400
this right right.

905
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,679
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, especially when they didn't have Lindy Waters to

906
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:32,559
protect right right, Ran Like that's yeah.

907
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:32,039
Speaker 3: But like.

908
00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:35,599
Speaker 2: God, that that's an A plus to me. That's just

909
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:40,159
a straight a plus. They understood how to work that

910
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:45,000
leverage they got. They got their guy in for a

911
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:48,079
really good price point to the point where they shouldn't

912
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:50,159
feel bad if that fit doesn't work out and they

913
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:53,360
can flip him later on. There's just nothing I hate

914
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,599
about what the Spurs got back here and what they

915
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:58,719
gave up complete ownership of that entire drink.

916
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:02,079
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I gave them uh an a.

917
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:03,960
I think it was an a orna minus when I

918
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,039
degrade it. But if I was to like map out

919
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,440
the downsides for them, just to play Devil's advocate here,

920
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,599
I actually think Daron Fox is undervalued as a shooter,

921
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,320
Like he still shoot twelve floaters this season. He's hitting

922
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,199
over I mean this was you know, ever since like

923
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:17,880
the news came out, he's been wonky, but he was.

924
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,159
He's still over thirty five percent on step back threes,

925
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:23,440
over forty six percent on pull up twos. The downsides

926
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,079
for me, and we didn't get too much of it.

927
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:26,800
I guess into the contract other than the terms, like

928
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,320
his contract is going to start his age twenty nine season,

929
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,320
and so you figure, like, let's just throw all four

930
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,840
years on there. So twenty nine, thirty, thirty one, thirty two.

931
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,800
That feels about right. But for someone who still is

932
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,119
pretty reliant on athleticism, I'd be curious what that looks like.

933
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:43,960
I think even if the final year is bad, the

934
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,599
spurs are just they'll be fine. But I do question,

935
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,119
like grant adding into and I didn't have time to

936
00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:51,920
write about this because I wasn't thinking I was thinking

937
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,960
about it, but I just I haven't like crystallized any

938
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,159
thoughts on it. Does getting him threaten to marginalize one

939
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,639
or both of the like Steph Castle, Jeremy Sohan and

940
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,639
I gravitate towards the ladder specifically, I know he's not

941
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:07,639
doing necessarily a ton on the ball, but we're already

942
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:10,239
talking about spacing concerns. And now if you add in

943
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,320
someone you view as I'm assuming they want to Hearon

944
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,679
Fox around for like a couple of years, that is

945
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,000
going to like shift the like. Maybe maybe not the

946
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:21,079
type of role so Han needs to play, but maybe

947
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:22,719
the space he's working with, or just the number of

948
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,199
touches he's even gonna get.

949
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,119
Speaker 3: I think that's a possibility. I also think that so

950
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,519
Han is not the type of player that you're concerned

951
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:34,639
about marginalizing when you have the opportunity to get someone

952
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,320
like Fox like Sohn's a good example of I think

953
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,559
what's a bigger issue with the Spurs where because of

954
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:45,880
when Bin Yama's ability, we think to space as a

955
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,880
center and basically take nothing off the table. You can

956
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,079
afford to have a Sohan out there who does a

957
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:56,119
few things exceptionally well but has severe limitations, and is

958
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:59,280
that the way to go right? Can you have sort

959
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,880
of specialists it's like him because you have Wemby? Or

960
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,039
is that aiming low? And you shouldn't make any concessions

961
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:07,199
like that you have Wemby And just because you can

962
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,800
have Sohn in a major role doesn't mean you should.

963
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,480
You should still be trying to get guys that do

964
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:13,760
what so Hand does plus more. Like, I think it's

965
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,559
just a question of how ambitious you want to be

966
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,599
building around Wemby, And my inclination would be you ought

967
00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:21,159
to be as ambitious as humanly possible because this is

968
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,639
this guy is just is going to allow you to

969
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:28,119
make mistakes and take big swings if you wanna and

970
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:32,480
cover for those. So I guess yeah, I think you're right. Like,

971
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:34,519
it does stand a reason that so Han will be

972
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:37,079
marginalized somewhat, and maybe Castle doesn't get the on ball

973
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:39,840
reps you'd want if you want him to grow into

974
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,840
the type of player he's going to be. I think

975
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,960
with Castle specifically, I just don't know what he's going

976
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,079
to be yet. I love him as a prospect. Another

977
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:50,119
guy with glaring limitations that matter more because he's a

978
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:53,599
guard the shooting I'm talking about. I just think if

979
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:55,559
he is what you think he is as the Spurs,

980
00:46:56,199 --> 00:46:59,039
then you should probably trust him to figure it out right,

981
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:01,719
and you would hope that if he is who you

982
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,679
think he is, he's undeniably good. And the idea of

983
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,000
worrying about how he fits with someone like Fox this

984
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:11,159
early is just not something you should be thinking about,

985
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,760
you know what I mean. Like, if you think he's fragile,

986
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,599
or you think like, oh, this might stun his growth,

987
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,320
then you're kind of admitting he's not the level of

988
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,960
prospect you believe him. You're saying you think he is

989
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,199
as the Spurs, and I.

990
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: Don't think they think that whatsoever. They have thrown him

991
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,639
into the wall several times this year and he's done

992
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:32,039
pretty well. The vibe that I got covering this team

993
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:33,880
over the course of a week in Paris as well,

994
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,000
and I asked around about Castle, is just they love him, They.

995
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 3: Love trust him to become whatever he's going to become,

996
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,239
and don't worry about Fox maybe getting in the way.

997
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,519
Maybe Fox facilitates him becoming the best version of himself.

998
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:50,320
I don't know. It's just the Spurs and Castle and

999
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,639
Wimby are so early in their developmental processes that it's like,

1000
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,840
you know, fit, you got to care about fit to

1001
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,639
some extent. But because I think we're sort of in agreement,

1002
00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:03,079
that is not the final piece, you know, or anything

1003
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:05,000
like that. You can just kind of see what this

1004
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,159
looks like and if you don't love it, well then

1005
00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:09,280
you're not. You didn't give up much to take the

1006
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,000
trial run with Fox, right, and.

1007
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: Cassel isn't necessarily a point guard either. Again, what I

1008
00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:15,400
sort of learn.

1009
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: How to shoot. If you want him to play next

1010
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,400
to Fox probably on someone.

1011
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:20,519
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's like that's a skill based thing.

1012
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,199
But I do think, you know, moving forward, the fact

1013
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,280
that he so fluid positionally just allows them to use

1014
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,119
him in whatever capacity. Like, I don't think they're necessarily

1015
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:32,960
married to starting him just out of necessity or anything.

1016
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,360
Like he's twenty years old. I wouldn't be surprised he

1017
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,760
spends the rest of this year and all next year

1018
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,119
like going in and out of the starting lineup trying

1019
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:43,480
to figure out what is the right way to utilize him.

1020
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:46,800
Because yeah, like I just agree, I agree that they're

1021
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,960
I don't think they're looking at him like, oh, like

1022
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:51,960
the presence of tier Fox is gonna mug it up,

1023
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,800
like he's gonna get minutes because Chris Paul is not

1024
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,000
gonna be around for it there either, And like trade

1025
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:58,320
Jones just got traded, so like there are gonna be

1026
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,519
plenty of minutes available at those guard spots regardless, Like

1027
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,360
that's not something that I would be concerned about, and

1028
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,920
I'm I doubt very much the Spurs R two. What

1029
00:49:09,039 --> 00:49:11,199
a home run that they didn't have to give him up?

1030
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,559
Speaker 1: Do you more? What I also do financialing about the

1031
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:15,719
trade though, is the timing, because I do I look

1032
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,440
at the cost, and I think even if you view

1033
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,159
this as they had to give up more than three

1034
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:22,159
first round picks, like in net you kind of mapped

1035
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:24,679
out what they still have. If we like kind of

1036
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:27,639
go through the like through two thousand and thirty draft,

1037
00:49:27,679 --> 00:49:29,840
there's a chance that in every year, but in twenty

1038
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,239
twenty nine they can really talk about into saying, well,

1039
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,920
we might have the rights to a pick that could

1040
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,880
be a lottery pick just because this year might be

1041
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,880
their own in Atlanta's they could swap with Atlanta in

1042
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,280
twenty six, they have Atlanta's in twenty seven, even though

1043
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,679
they don't have their own they can Boston in twenty

1044
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,960
twenty eight as a swap with top one protection. Is

1045
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,400
just sort of like eh, but then you also have

1046
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,679
like the two thousand and thirty rights as well, So

1047
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,559
like just looking at the cost, it makes so much sense.

1048
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:56,159
But the timing of Okay, well, they're clearly not contending

1049
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,800
this season, and maybe they kind of back their way

1050
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,440
or not back their way, but get into the play

1051
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,440
in But I wouldn't expect them. Maybe they win it,

1052
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,760
I wouldn't expect them to. I mean, I guess, as

1053
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,000
Grant like to say, all things are possible through Wemby,

1054
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:10,599
so we shouldn't put a ceiling on it. But do

1055
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,039
you think it what is the timing of this trade?

1056
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:14,559
Say to you, is it more like, oh, they're gonna

1057
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,199
start really not be reckless, but like they viewed next

1058
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,599
year as a time to go for it, or do

1059
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:21,119
you think that there could be another move for them

1060
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:23,840
at the deadline? And then also what is still when

1061
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,639
you're looking at this team We've yet to see them play,

1062
00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:28,280
of course, but as currently constructed, what do you identify

1063
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,679
is still like okay, well, what's like maybe the biggest

1064
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,519
need or two that they still need to address to

1065
00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:34,280
optimize what's what's in place.

1066
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:37,599
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they're open minded towards everything this year.

1067
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:40,679
So again they one just for they won just twenty

1068
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,159
two games last year, so we have to remember that already.

1069
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,119
By now, they're looking pretty good in terms of the turnaround,

1070
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:48,280
Like everything from here is just cream. They're playing with

1071
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,920
no pressure whatsoever because everyone was like, oh, yeah, they

1072
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,920
were one of the worst teams last year, and now

1073
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,559
it's they're playing with house money. The fact that they

1074
00:50:56,559 --> 00:50:58,440
get Fox, and yes, it does come with a certain

1075
00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:03,320
level of expectation, but not like immediate teams and players

1076
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,840
and fans and all everyone kind of knows. Now, Oh,

1077
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,440
it takes some time for a player of that magtitude

1078
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:10,559
to get acclimated and like get into the flow of things.

1079
00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:13,920
But like the Spurs, ask you guys out loud, lining,

1080
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:18,280
I mean, Wemby is so incredibly easy to play with.

1081
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:23,159
Is also my read on everything I've been hearing and

1082
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,119
the players I've talked to is just he's like he's

1083
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:28,880
the new pluck and play. Remember how Kevin Durant is

1084
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,320
like the prototypical pluck and play guys, So easy to

1085
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,639
play with that's Wemby now because of the catch and

1086
00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:37,559
shout ability from like thirty five feet out. So for

1087
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,199
Fox to come in, I'm guessing he's gonna have an

1088
00:51:40,199 --> 00:51:42,679
easier transition than most make it out as. And if

1089
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,480
they suddenly make a push and they get into the playoffs,

1090
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:48,760
are we gonna sit here with a straight face and

1091
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,440
say they could win a first round matchup and like

1092
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:53,679
go into the second Like, I'm just not gonna put

1093
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:55,400
a ceiling on it. Like in terms of the follow

1094
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,199
up trade, I think they're open minded, but I think

1095
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,239
they're very, very aware that there are certain peace says

1096
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,239
they're not going to want to pivot off off, like

1097
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,239
especially Castle and the Hawks picks, which I think they

1098
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,800
are loving this situation they are in. And that's not

1099
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:10,920
you know, trying to trash Genial and Johnson for going down.

1100
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,159
That's obviously super disappointing for everyone involved. But like for

1101
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,719
the Spurs, I could understand why they would be, oh

1102
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,960
that that pick just got way more juicy. So they

1103
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,800
have no pressure. Everyone's kind of expecting them to go

1104
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,480
all in this summer, so they're just sitting there. Yeah,

1105
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:29,480
we made one move. Now we'll see how far we go.

1106
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,719
I don't think they have any plans mapped out, Dan whatsoever.

1107
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: Grant you have anything to add, even and just if

1108
00:52:35,039 --> 00:52:36,559
you had to pick, we've talked about it. But I'm

1109
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:40,400
just wondering since the Fox trade, obviously because you're impressure,

1110
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,239
like what this team still needs? Changed it all.

1111
00:52:43,079 --> 00:52:45,199
Speaker 3: I don't know that it's changed a ton. I do

1112
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,280
agree that it's just kind of a let's figure out

1113
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,800
what this looks like and we'll adjust as we go forward.

1114
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,760
What I would add is I think we need to

1115
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,880
give at least a little bit of thought to the

1116
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,000
possibility that while the out years of whatever deal Fox

1117
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:03,679
signs might be painful because of the athleticism concerns and

1118
00:53:03,679 --> 00:53:06,599
all that stuff, we need to consider the fact that

1119
00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:09,360
he might be better than he's ever been right now

1120
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,800
in this new environment. He's never played with a spacing big.

1121
00:53:13,199 --> 00:53:16,159
He's never played with like, look at the wings he's

1122
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:18,320
got around him now, even if I mean Harrison Barnes,

1123
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,920
old buddy, But yeah, Kelden Johnson, you've got Devin Bissel there.

1124
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,639
I think there's a chance that Fox in a spaced

1125
00:53:24,679 --> 00:53:29,159
floor is just like a nightmare, you know, until he

1126
00:53:29,199 --> 00:53:31,760
loses that step, which who knows when that might come.

1127
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,119
It's not going to be this year or next. I

1128
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,280
mean there's a change that we agree this trade looks

1129
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,159
great for the Spurs. That could look better, like if

1130
00:53:38,199 --> 00:53:39,960
down the stretch of the season we see a version

1131
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,480
of Fox that we never really got to see because

1132
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,199
he had some bonus just kind of in the middle

1133
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:47,880
of the floor and you know, helpful in the handoff game.

1134
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,719
But Fox with Fox with no center in the middle

1135
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,039
of the lane is an interesting thing to think about offensively?

1136
00:53:54,679 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 2: Can I ask you guys something?

1137
00:53:56,159 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead.

1138
00:53:57,159 --> 00:54:01,159
Speaker 2: Kelden Johnson's contract right now million this year, seventeen and

1139
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:03,599
a half million next year, so it's declining and then

1140
00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:06,519
just staying in seventeen and a half. I know he's

1141
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:11,760
not like, you know, a for all teams to certify starter,

1142
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,960
but like for that compensation level, he should be an

1143
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:19,159
asset in some ways, He's probably the one guy I'm

1144
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:21,719
looking at. It's like, if they make a follow up

1145
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,880
trade before the deadline, he's the guy. Is there a

1146
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,159
trade that makes sense for him for you guys, like

1147
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,880
one that just pops with given the fact that he's

1148
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,400
got the nineteen outgoing.

1149
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:35,639
Speaker 1: I so if they were to make another change because

1150
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:37,440
I've I've come around to the fact that like mid

1151
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,199
season acquisitions are just so tough to integrate, and already

1152
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:42,440
made a major one. I'm wondering if you could move him.

1153
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,039
And this is if you went back what was the

1154
00:54:44,159 --> 00:54:46,519
year where he like shot the lights out on threes,

1155
00:54:46,599 --> 00:54:48,920
I probably said some pretty inflammatory things about what he read.

1156
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 3: It's like three years ago now, Yeah.

1157
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,079
Speaker 1: But they kind of need someone who's gonna I would

1158
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:55,880
think to do that. And so I'm just wondering, like,

1159
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:58,679
would you because I don't know how lower I honestly,

1160
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,960
after all these years, even the extension that he signed

1161
00:55:02,039 --> 00:55:04,440
was proof of this, I had no idea what their

1162
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,280
impressions were, and I still don't necessarily have an idea,

1163
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,639
So like, would you consider just as like a name

1164
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:13,480
type to throw out there, like a Duncan Robinson archetype

1165
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:14,159
on this?

1166
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: Oh I love that. I actually love that because they

1167
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,360
got Fox now and because every like they got the

1168
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,559
ducks in a row, like the fact that you can

1169
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:26,719
put in someone who is well, like, I know he's developed,

1170
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,079
but it's fair to call Duncan Robinson primarily one trick

1171
00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:31,639
pony still, right, Like that's.

1172
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:33,199
Speaker 4: Maybe one and a half because we've seen it one

1173
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,880
and a half for Pony, Yeah, like for him to

1174
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,880
come in and just bend defenses that way, for for Wimby,

1175
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,679
for Fox, for Castle, hell yeah, I love that.

1176
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 2: I mean that's a good one.

1177
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,559
Speaker 3: Cam Johnson, like you could you could get there real

1178
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:49,079
easy with Keldon and just throw Now we'll keep Champagne

1179
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:52,480
off the table. But like Blake Lesley gets you there, uh,

1180
00:55:52,519 --> 00:55:54,280
and you got all these picks that you didn't give

1181
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,559
up in this Fox trade to sweeten things like the

1182
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,679
I think the point is the Spurs can basically do

1183
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,840
whatever well you could. You could throw Johnson and Barnes together.

1184
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,119
That's like thirty six million in twenty five twenty six salary.

1185
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:08,760
And if you're not married to Vassell, you can get

1186
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,760
up to Max. Like they can trade for the Max

1187
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,719
guy that Fox maybe isn't you know? They can sign

1188
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,639
the guy depending on what you'd get back for a

1189
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,519
Viscel trade. Now, it's just every option, you know, all

1190
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:21,360
paths are all paths are open right now.

1191
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: I will say I would be fairly surprised if they then, like,

1192
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:28,199
because what is the what's the least valuable pick they

1193
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,199
own now? Right now? It's I guess it's one of

1194
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,199
their own movies, all their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd

1195
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,199
be surprised if they trade another first round pick, is

1196
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:36,639
what I was getting at. But it's sort of like

1197
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,199
they did just trade for Daron Fox and so is

1198
00:56:39,199 --> 00:56:41,639
your Is your own twenty twenty five pick really off

1199
00:56:41,639 --> 00:56:44,119
the table? Might be something that I would wonder about,

1200
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:46,199
But I guess you could say you have Atlanta's like,

1201
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,079
would you prefer to trade your twenty twenty six pick?

1202
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:49,239
You could do something like but that you have a

1203
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:50,840
swap on that, so you probably want to get rid

1204
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,400
of it. But I think you guys are right that

1205
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,039
anything's kind of possible here. Is there anything else on

1206
00:56:57,079 --> 00:57:00,039
this well more anything else about this trade specifically you

1207
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:01,599
want to talk about or is there anything else that's

1208
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,760
happening that you don't think it's going to become too dated?

1209
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,639
Overarching thoughts you want to get off your chest.

1210
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: Before I do. I actually do have a thought, and

1211
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:08,079
people can.

1212
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,079
Speaker 1: Ever going to end right here, grant take a s.

1213
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:15,079
Speaker 2: I do. Some people are gonna laugh at me for

1214
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:18,400
this one because everyone looks at him as a bit

1215
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,400
of a joke, which I think is ridiculous, Like a

1216
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,639
human victory. Cigar Santra Mamo kayless, Really, I think this

1217
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,199
guy is so you you.

1218
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 3: Just wanted to say the name so easily.

1219
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no no. It took me a

1220
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,840
long time, like I couldn't get through that name. But

1221
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,760
then then I met him in La and which was

1222
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,239
super nice to me and my son. I was like, okay,

1223
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:40,039
I got to learn it now.

1224
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:41,599
Speaker 3: He's like, you're the guy that can say my name.

1225
00:57:41,639 --> 00:57:42,239
I've heard about it.

1226
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: I'm the other the one guy.

1227
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:47,079
Speaker 3: No.

1228
00:57:47,159 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 2: But like so they gave up, said Collins in the

1229
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,639
deal obviously, like they don't have a lot of size

1230
00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:55,480
now and like they still have Charles Bassy. Yes, but

1231
00:57:55,639 --> 00:57:58,960
it feels like the door is open for Momo now

1232
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,760
to get more minutes. And I am digging that. I

1233
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,920
think there's a player in there. I think a lot

1234
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,800
of people are going to be surprised if he is

1235
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,000
going to get the minutes at how he produces. The

1236
00:58:09,519 --> 00:58:11,960
on court chemistry he's had over the first two seasons

1237
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:15,920
with Wemby is ridiculous, Like they know where each other

1238
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,480
are at all times. It's like it's wild when you're

1239
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,360
watch it in person as well when you're sitting there

1240
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,159
watching them on the court. I just I want to

1241
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:26,519
get that in because I have a feeling we're going

1242
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,960
to see a second half of the season from Mamo

1243
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,320
that is going to be very, very good, and I

1244
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,599
just wanted to be on the record about it.

1245
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:36,679
Speaker 1: That is, I mean that or unless they're going to

1246
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,960
trade for a backup big I really wanted Robert Williams

1247
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:40,440
on this team, but now they don't really have the

1248
00:58:40,639 --> 00:58:41,000
with trade.

1249
00:58:41,039 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: Don't you Dare, don't you Dare, don't block Mamo. Don't

1250
00:58:44,039 --> 00:58:44,199
do it.

1251
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:46,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to want to now sold on him

1252
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:48,880
as a future star. Grant you got anything else on

1253
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,159
this trade or anything else that's happening around the NBA.

1254
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:54,079
You got your KD and Lebron Warriors. I mean, dust

1255
00:58:54,119 --> 00:58:56,280
off the Kdie Warriors jersey and get that Lebron to

1256
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:57,239
the Warriors jersey.

1257
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,599
Speaker 3: Yep, back, I placed that order on NBA dot Com

1258
00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:03,559
while we were talking. So well, I'm all set. I'm

1259
00:59:03,559 --> 00:59:07,079
all ready for for anything to happen. Yeah, no, nothing

1260
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:10,679
else to add. I'm afraid of dating this by giving

1261
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:12,000
any other trade thoughts.

1262
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:14,159
Speaker 1: I didn't know why did you see this is a

1263
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:17,840
minute to the honest comments like, he was clearly being facetious,

1264
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,119
but he was talking about the double standard of star

1265
00:59:20,199 --> 00:59:22,159
players wanting out versus when franchise you want to get

1266
00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:23,880
rid of them. And then he's like, I want to

1267
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,880
see Luca to the Lakers, I want to see Nicole

1268
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,920
Jokic to the Knicks. And so I went through the

1269
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,280
comment section just to see, like in the br app

1270
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,599
and the amount of people that like, and it was

1271
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:36,559
the video. It wasn't just the transcript, the amount of

1272
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:38,519
people that just like. Even his tone was just like, oh,

1273
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:41,280
he is so gone from a walk they took away

1274
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,920
from that. I'm just like, that was not my takeaway

1275
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,320
at all, but that's what everyone gravitated towards. So I

1276
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,360
found that I just wanted to shout that out because

1277
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,360
I kind of like it when NBA players troll, like

1278
00:59:52,159 --> 00:59:55,360
basically the news cycle, slash the content model. That's all

1279
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,280
I wanted to say.

1280
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 3: That's fair.

1281
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:00,679
Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, no, that's great, that's great. Look, I

1282
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:05,639
just have this rule that whoever owns a blow chop

1283
01:00:05,719 --> 01:00:09,199
bell should never be taken seriously. That's just my takeaway

1284
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:12,119
here ever owns a what a blowchop bell? Have you

1285
01:00:12,159 --> 01:00:12,719
not seen that?

1286
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: Oh? I thought you said low job bell and I

1287
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:17,000
didn't read that.

1288
01:00:17,039 --> 01:00:19,199
Speaker 2: I no, no, no, no, I'm way more dirty than that. Dan,

1289
01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:20,360
you should know. You should know.

1290
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:21,519
Speaker 1: No.

1291
01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:24,199
Speaker 2: But whenever you own something like that, I'm just you're

1292
01:00:24,239 --> 01:00:26,320
always like I'm going to take you like sixty percent

1293
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:27,960
seriously at most, Well.

1294
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,639
Speaker 1: You can get your the NBA podcast branded blowjob bells

1295
01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:33,719
at their store on Mort's only fans link. But actually,

1296
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,000
Grant happy to take us out of you.

1297
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:38,599
Speaker 3: I think we'd better. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching.

1298
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,519
We got our handles on the bottom of the screen here.

1299
01:00:41,559 --> 01:00:44,719
If you're watching, thank you Dan, thank you Mort. Check

1300
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,480
out more five. Well, this is a crossover, so if

1301
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,320
you're listening to this, you know where you're getting it from.

1302
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,559
You know, you know to Paula Hardwood Knock's the same deal.

1303
01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:53,159
Shouts Frank Milikena apologies, Jared Allen