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<v Speaker 1>Hey everybody, and welcome to life as a gamble. My

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<v Speaker 1>guest today is a self described podcast slut. He is

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer and comedian and welcome to life as a gamble.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles Starr, thank you so much for having me on.

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<v Speaker 1>So first of all, I didn't know of you at

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<v Speaker 1>all until I heard you on David Hill's podcast American

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<v Speaker 1>Gambler book Club, which I highly recommend to people who

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<v Speaker 1>still read books. I know there are some of us

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<v Speaker 1>out there that still do that, sure, But the thing

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<v Speaker 1>that caught my attention was you are trying to do

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<v Speaker 1>as a guest. You are trying to do fifty three

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts in fifty two weeks, and that doesn't count podcast

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<v Speaker 1>that you produce yourself. So is this on a bet

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<v Speaker 1>or how did this happen? What is it? What happened there?

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<v Speaker 2>It is on a bet, but a bet on the

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<v Speaker 2>level of trading places you know like there, And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not a bet, it is more it is more me

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<v Speaker 2>being kind of a jerk for laughs. What happened was

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not going to shy away from promoting my colleague,

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<v Speaker 2>but Josh Berman, who has two of his own podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>decided around December of last year, Christmasy said, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to promote my own stuff and to promote my own

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and to you know, kind of put my marker

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<v Speaker 2>down on forcing me to do that. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>get on fifty two podcasts. I want to average a

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<v Speaker 2>podcast a week in twenty twenty six. And I saw

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<v Speaker 2>that and I just as a joke, but it's only

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<v Speaker 2>sort of joking on the square because I also very

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<v Speaker 2>much meant it, said I all I want is to

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<v Speaker 2>be on one more podcast than Josh and so and

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<v Speaker 2>so that established the challenge is now he wants to

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<v Speaker 2>do fifty two, and so I said, okay, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to do fifty and if he beats it, I still

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<v Speaker 2>have to beat him by one. So you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>are just we are now in an arms race.

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<v Speaker 1>And did to start it as of January first.

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<v Speaker 2>As of January first, Yeah, calendar calendar year twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>And we are now nearing the end of July. And

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<v Speaker 1>where do you guys stand.

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<v Speaker 2>At the end of July? In released podcasts, he is

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<v Speaker 2>winning thirty four to thirty three. But including this recording,

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<v Speaker 2>I have an undisclosed number in the can awaiting release

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<v Speaker 2>from people who who have the podcasts and have to

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<v Speaker 2>edit them. I am comfortable with my position. I also

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<v Speaker 2>have a very busy week because I have no self

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<v Speaker 2>control and oh, the next few days are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be a combination thrill ride nightmare as everything revolves around

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<v Speaker 2>me being back in front of my computer. Another podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>So in addition to all of that, you have two

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<v Speaker 1>of your own podcasts that you do so and what

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<v Speaker 1>are those two?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, I do have two, though only one of

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<v Speaker 2>them is currently running. The one that's currently running is

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<v Speaker 2>called No Homework, which I do with two of my

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<v Speaker 2>friends who I have met in real life but I

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<v Speaker 2>know through social media and shared interest in sports and

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<v Speaker 2>left wing politics basically. And that one is called No Homework,

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<v Speaker 2>and we don't really have We say it's about hardly

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<v Speaker 2>bad jobs and hardly working, but we don't really stick

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<v Speaker 2>to that theme at all. It's like in any other

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<v Speaker 2>podcast about three white guys and then and then we

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<v Speaker 2>have and then we have guests on from time to time,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a lot of fun. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of fun. The second one we only do during

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<v Speaker 2>football season, and that is City Sat Country Saint, which

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<v Speaker 2>I do with one of my colleagues from no homework

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<v Speaker 2>because he is also, like me, a New Orleans Saints fan,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that's a football season, so that one's coming up,

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<v Speaker 2>but we don't do it for the preseason games. Like

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<v Speaker 2>we'll do one pre season preview episode. We did a

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<v Speaker 2>draft episode if you know are if you know a

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<v Speaker 2>ref Hassan who you know has a great football newsletter

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<v Speaker 2>called Wide Left and a vikings podcast and another like

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<v Speaker 2>goofy football podcast is his vikings podcast is I'm promoting

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<v Speaker 2>everyone else's stuff. It's no Norse something but now I'm forgetting.

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<v Speaker 2>And he's got one called sixty Minute Drill, which he doesn't.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's like a great football writer and think talker

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff. So we had him do a draft analysis

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<v Speaker 2>of the Saints drass and so that's our only off season.

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<v Speaker 2>And then in the past I've had three other like

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<v Speaker 2>podcast experience, like things that you know I did for

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<v Speaker 2>a while that were kind of.

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<v Speaker 1>Law comedy thing law comedy, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because we're all like those podcasts were all lawyers. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>those podcasts were I'm also a lawyer. We you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we would take the law seriously, uh society and ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>a lot less. So it was a very kind of

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<v Speaker 2>jaded that the way the world is failing us.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So your background is you went to law school,

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<v Speaker 1>you were a lawyer with a big firm, and you

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<v Speaker 1>gave that all up to do stand up comedy.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean I really

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<v Speaker 2>I graduated in ninety eight from law school, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just went path of least resistance. You know. I went

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<v Speaker 2>to a good law school, which makes it really easy,

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<v Speaker 2>and I went to a good law school in New

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<v Speaker 2>York City, which makes it really easy to get a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good job in New York without necessarily blowing the

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<v Speaker 2>doors off your law school grades. And so I, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I fell into it. I didn't really want to do it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I had a lot of loans, and I stuck

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<v Speaker 2>it out for six years. You know. I had one

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<v Speaker 2>firm that I didn't like working for, one firm that

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't really like being a lawyer, but I like

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<v Speaker 2>the people for four years and then that firm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of collapsed when you know, the gods on Olympus couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>get along anymore, and it fractured into a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>different pieces, and the you know, the peons below just

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<v Speaker 2>followed one of the partners and then the guy who

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<v Speaker 2>I stuck with went to another really really big firm,

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<v Speaker 2>and so after a year of that, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I would rather do anything of them. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I had always wanted to be a comic, so I

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<v Speaker 2>just quit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I used to work in the film business, and

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<v Speaker 1>it seemed like every time I turned around, the guy

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<v Speaker 1>running to get coffee was a lawyer who who had

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<v Speaker 1>given up law. And you know, those people very quickly

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<v Speaker 1>rose through the ranks and became producers and things. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, one friend said to me, I really loved

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<v Speaker 1>law school, and then once I got out, I realized

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<v Speaker 1>I hated practicing law.

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<v Speaker 2>That's very much me. Ye, that's very much me. And

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<v Speaker 2>I will say the film industry, I think, is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people who are either on their way too

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<v Speaker 2>or on their way from law school. Because the other

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<v Speaker 2>thing that law schools are full of is people whose

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<v Speaker 2>creative dreams didn't quite work out. Like it is in

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people who have a way with

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<v Speaker 2>words really see like the law as a kind of

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<v Speaker 2>different application of that skill. You know, they think about

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<v Speaker 2>brief writing, they think about persuasive argument, and so you

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<v Speaker 2>see a lot of people in law school who are

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<v Speaker 2>going who start in their you know, mid to late

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<v Speaker 2>twenties instead of just out of college, who want it

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<v Speaker 2>to be writers and hope to be one day again,

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<v Speaker 2>but also kind of want a larger apartment, and so

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<v Speaker 2>the law school is their path to comfort.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. They have really valuable skills in the film industry too,

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<v Speaker 1>and any of them become agents and were uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>or producers as I said, Yeah, some of them have

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<v Speaker 1>aspirations to be writers. But you know that writers don't

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<v Speaker 1>make any money unless you know, it's kind of like uh,

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<v Speaker 1>as I said on my last episode, it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a lottery job.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You either make a lot of money or you starve.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's right. I think I think that's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And I and I decided that after six years of

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<v Speaker 2>being an attorney, when I was miserable, gaining weight, just

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<v Speaker 2>in really bad mood, I thought that I had fuck

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<v Speaker 2>you money and could just walk away. And I had

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<v Speaker 2>a very bad idea of us because I I was

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<v Speaker 2>just I burned through cash so fair. I had just

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<v Speaker 2>bought an apartment, you know, like I just didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>like how quick it goes through your fingers when you

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<v Speaker 2>have any kind of expenses and so I went back

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<v Speaker 2>to the law very quickly, really, but in a temp

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<v Speaker 2>like I basically worked as a temp for the next

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<v Speaker 2>ten years. But you know, it's better than it's not

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, the typing pool kind of temp. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you're getting paid, You're getting paid better than that, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So like by American standards, I'm not going to complain

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<v Speaker 2>about what I was making, but by lawyer standards, I

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<v Speaker 2>was a peasant.

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<v Speaker 1>Right And New York City is a very expensive place

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<v Speaker 1>to live too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean I had, like I felt like

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<v Speaker 2>I was sharing my brother and I bought an apartment together.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the apartment I owned, And so I had,

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<v Speaker 2>like with any kind of job, I had, like an

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<v Speaker 2>affordable enough lifestyle. Really I couldn't not work. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean back then as a temp, you know, working

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of overtime that they make you work, I

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<v Speaker 2>was still you know, making somewhere between sixty which is

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<v Speaker 2>not you know, living high on the hog. But I

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<v Speaker 2>could afford my apartment, and so it's like nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>complain about. And so I don't, you know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>it was just less than I could have made if

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be miserable. My ah life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what happened? What was the comedy plan? Was

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<v Speaker 1>it the late nights open mics?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it was. It was very much just doing

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<v Speaker 2>it without a net, like feeling like I was funny.

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<v Speaker 2>I was thirty three at that point, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I have enough of a voice that

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<v Speaker 2>I can find my way through. And you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>worked a little. I never made any money at it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I know, like I said, I had a job,

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<v Speaker 2>Like there was a It was just a weird confluence

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<v Speaker 2>of things because I started doing comedy literally, like I

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<v Speaker 2>quit my job and in that week I met the

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<v Speaker 2>woman who would become my wife and remain so somehow

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<v Speaker 2>and uh and also did my first open mic, right

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<v Speaker 2>and so you know, so now I've like I have

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<v Speaker 2>a job, and I have this uh passion project, and

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<v Speaker 2>I have a girlfriend for the first time really and forever,

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<v Speaker 2>if you know, you want to get technical, maybe even ever.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it was like I had a lot going

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<v Speaker 2>on at that point, and so I I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I made it to the second step really quickly, but

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<v Speaker 2>the third step is the one. And so I never

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<v Speaker 2>I had like enough highs in my comedy life to

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<v Speaker 2>like like it. You know, look back, I still do

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<v Speaker 2>it every once in a while. But it was a blast.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like a real blast to have a second

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<v Speaker 2>thing to do, you know when I was, uh, because

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<v Speaker 2>I really hated that job. I really hated that job,

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<v Speaker 2>which which being a temp, being a temp attorney. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you're just you know, like your job is doing like

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<v Speaker 2>reviewing documents for discovery and litigation. So you're just like

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<v Speaker 2>a drone checking boxes on a computer. Relevant, not relevant,

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<v Speaker 2>privileged not privileged. It meets one of the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>thirty k specific criteria that the attorneys care about. It's

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<v Speaker 2>really mindless stuff, you know, at and they want you

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<v Speaker 2>to do it at volume, and so it's I it's

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<v Speaker 2>really really rough going and so that you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>able to go out and open mics, it's like the

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<v Speaker 2>only thing that comes.

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<v Speaker 1>And what happened, I mean, eventually after ten years you

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<v Speaker 1>quit that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what happened? What happened really is I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>did it pretty you know, pretty hard, but not as

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<v Speaker 2>hard maybe as I could have when you look back

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<v Speaker 2>at it. But I was doing a bunch of shows

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<v Speaker 2>a week, and I got a couple of festivals, and

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<v Speaker 2>I you know, performed around the city and made a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of bucks here and there, but very little. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I had a kid, you know, I had

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<v Speaker 2>a kid, you know, a few like four years in

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<v Speaker 2>and so I took a break and then I went

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<v Speaker 2>back to it. But once you're married with a kid

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<v Speaker 2>and you have a day job, how much can you

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<v Speaker 2>really do? Right, Like, if you are if you have

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<v Speaker 2>like this day job and you're really, really really trying

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<v Speaker 2>to do like you know, ten eleven mics week where

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<v Speaker 2>you're getting up constantly, constantly, constantly meeting people, going to

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<v Speaker 2>shows that you're not even on, Like your whole life

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<v Speaker 2>just is soundtracked by cats in the cradle, right, Like

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<v Speaker 2>when am I ever going to see that kid? When

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<v Speaker 2>is my wife ever going to get a break from,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the less desirable aspect of motherhood, right, So,

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<v Speaker 2>like that just sort of slows it down naturally if

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<v Speaker 2>you're not close enough to lift off. And I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>remotely close to, you know, achieving any kind of career

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<v Speaker 2>liftoff which would make it worth the sacrifice of my

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<v Speaker 2>entire family life, and so it just kind of fizzled

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<v Speaker 2>out and led to I think prolonged depression because of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you know, Twitter as a place to tell

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<v Speaker 2>jokes at the time time, and then podcasts became the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of lifeline where you sort of re establish your

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<v Speaker 2>creative self because I was back telling jokes again, like

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<v Speaker 2>all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, actually that's kind of exactly. What happened to

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<v Speaker 1>me with podcasting was, you know, I had stopped working

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<v Speaker 1>in the film industry and I had written a book

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<v Speaker 1>that was a collection of interviews, and you make no money,

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<v Speaker 1>you know about it's about like being a comedian, they

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<v Speaker 1>pay about equally. And I realized, well, podcasting is just

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<v Speaker 1>interviewing people without all the work, without all the editing

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<v Speaker 1>of the manuscript for you know, hundreds of hours and

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<v Speaker 1>all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, it became

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<v Speaker 1>a creative outlet.

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<v Speaker 3>And and I know it's point though, I gotta say,

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<v Speaker 3>I envy making a career out of gaming, like I'm

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<v Speaker 3>making a career out.

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<v Speaker 2>Of you know, the green felt. I mean that's pretty nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well yeah, but but it is work, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah. I guess at

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<v Speaker 2>a certain point it stops being fun and then it's like, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>No, still fun. Really, I mean the part that's fun

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<v Speaker 1>is is you know, I've always said if I had

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<v Speaker 1>to play alone, I wouldn't play right. I've always had teammates, partners,

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<v Speaker 1>and and that's where the fun comes in, you know stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean I definitely prefer live poker to

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<v Speaker 2>to online. I couldn't. It was like real, that was

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<v Speaker 2>that really an't go.

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<v Speaker 1>For Yeah, And you know, I had a foray into

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<v Speaker 1>sports betting for a couple of years, and that's that

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<v Speaker 1>felt like an accounting job. Really. It was just hours

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<v Speaker 1>of time, had spreadsheets keeping track of all the bets

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, yeah, you have all these different people

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<v Speaker 1>you're working with and they all have a different deal,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, it was a nice Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I was. I was corrected onto the straight and

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<v Speaker 2>narrow on sports betting very young because I was a

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<v Speaker 2>sophomore in high school and one of my one of

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<v Speaker 2>the kids in my homeroom from the Bronx definitely had

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<v Speaker 2>either a bookie in the family or whatever. But he

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<v Speaker 2>brought betting slips to school. And it wasn't the slips

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<v Speaker 2>that got me. It was the You'll remember the year

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<v Speaker 2>because for some reason, I'm drawing a blank on it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think it was the eighty five playoffs I

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<v Speaker 2>gave him three to one on the Cardinals coming back

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<v Speaker 2>from three to one down against the Astros and lost,

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<v Speaker 2>and then and double or nothing on the Cardinals coming

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<v Speaker 2>back from three to one down against the Blue Jays

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<v Speaker 2>and then lost again.

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<v Speaker 1>And now, how are you giving him three to one when.

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<v Speaker 2>You're there because I was taking the winning team. I

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<v Speaker 2>was taking the team that was up three to one.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh oh oh oh, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I'm not dumb, but I was like, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>three to one are pretty good odds for like winning

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<v Speaker 2>one of the next three games, in my opinion, But

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<v Speaker 2>I by busted both times. And it's not like I

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00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.480
<v Speaker 2>grew up poor, but all that money wasn't mine. So

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00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.359
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, I owe this kid in my

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00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.160
<v Speaker 2>homeroom sixty bucks and I'm like, what the fuck did

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<v Speaker 2>that happen? And so I was out of the sports

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<v Speaker 2>betting game real quick. I'm like, I am not built

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<v Speaker 2>for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, it sounds like you had way the best

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<v Speaker 1>of it.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean, I think, as they say, the

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<v Speaker 2>Sklansky dollars were in my favor, but I became I

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<v Speaker 2>think more converse.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah. Get to get into the

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<v Speaker 1>gambling business. You have to get over that. Yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>need to learn to deal with with risk and with fluctuations.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've made it back, and like, I like, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing. I play poker now, but I would like

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<v Speaker 2>sports betting. I'm like, I know, I know nothing. I know,

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<v Speaker 2>I know nothing compared to the people make a living

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<v Speaker 2>at this. I'm just someone who wants to watch the game.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so at some point you got rid of the

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<v Speaker 1>temp job, and what happened then?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh? Well what happened? Well, first of all, the temp

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<v Speaker 2>job became a permanent job. Like one of those firms

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<v Speaker 2>that I worked as temp for a while hired me.

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<v Speaker 2>And I kept trying to I didn't really keep trying

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<v Speaker 2>to do stand up. I did try to get a

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<v Speaker 2>few writing jobs, and I came very close to like

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<v Speaker 2>political comedy shows like Late Night Political many shows. I

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00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:05.960
<v Speaker 2>was submitting writing packets, like. I never wrote anything sitcom structured,

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<v Speaker 2>like I think Elizabeth like writes for that kind of show, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Am I wrong about that?

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<v Speaker 1>She's writing for a drama we're talking about, okay, Michael, Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Who's last my last episode?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So I never wrote anything like that because I've

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<v Speaker 2>never written anything script structured. But I could write monologue jokes,

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<v Speaker 2>I could write sketches, you know, in this in the

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<v Speaker 2>vein of John Stewart and John Oliver, you know. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I would submit packets to those shows, and I

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<v Speaker 2>made it past the first round a bunch of times,

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<v Speaker 2>and I made it past the second round, and so

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<v Speaker 2>it it was like very, uh, very rough to keep

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<v Speaker 2>getting to keep getting close without actually closing the deal.

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<v Speaker 2>And uh and then I kind of just gave up

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<v Speaker 2>for a while and just did my job. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Twitter was really at that point, literally the only kind

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<v Speaker 2>of lifeline was telling Joe, building a small following and

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of thing, until I started doing podcast stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like ten years ago when I started

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<v Speaker 2>guesting on a friends podcast as his like courts guy.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it was like a comedy news podcast. And

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<v Speaker 2>then he would have me on every few episodes to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about what was going on in the courts. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's like also left wing politics, and so he was

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<v Speaker 2>like well versed in the politics of it, but not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily the nuance of court opinions. He's not keeping up

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<v Speaker 2>with like appellate decisions. So we would have stuff to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about in that regard, and that was my friend

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<v Speaker 2>Jeb Lund who's podcast This Week in Atrocity, and that

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<v Speaker 2>became my first legal podcast because my appearances on that

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<v Speaker 2>inspired some of me and some of my friends to

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<v Speaker 2>start our own thing, which at the time was called

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<v Speaker 2>Mike Dicta, which is a meaningless football pun and a

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<v Speaker 2>really stupid lead, and so we did that. We did

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty episodes of that, and it was like, really

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<v Speaker 2>for a podcast that came out of nowhere, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>by a bunch of nobodies, pretty popular for a little while,

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<v Speaker 2>but then, you know, personality clash is largely my fault,

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<v Speaker 2>but it fell apart.

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<v Speaker 1>And.

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<v Speaker 2>So then there were just a few more years in

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<v Speaker 2>the woods until I started doing a lab series which

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<v Speaker 2>was again but that was more legal culture than you know,

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<v Speaker 2>case by case analysis, and that just stood for all

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<v Speaker 2>lawyers or best there. It's in the acab sense, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>And so that was really fun and I joined those guys,

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<v Speaker 2>which were some of the same people Dick. I rejoined

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<v Speaker 2>them for a while. I had my own thing for

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit called Hostile Witness, and you know, some

385
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<v Speaker 2>of that, I like, some of that is the best

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<v Speaker 2>work I've ever done. Those podcasts because they were very

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<v Speaker 2>They were very funny while being thoughtful and serious and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, serious about the law, serious about the social

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<v Speaker 2>impact of the law, but a bunch of funny people

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00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.720
<v Speaker 2>telling funny jokes throughout it. And you know, and then

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00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.200
<v Speaker 2>when I on Hostile Witness, I did you know, after

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<v Speaker 2>the first trans rights case, when Gorsa shocked the world

393
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 2>by coming down on the side of transgenderism being covered

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00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:05.799
<v Speaker 2>by title set Wait, I always title nine being covered

395
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.880
<v Speaker 2>by title Well, now I'm forgetting whichever it is it's

396
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:11.480
<v Speaker 2>the gender, because now I'm forgetting if it's just one

397
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:14.200
<v Speaker 2>is employment and one is school, I think that's what

398
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.160
<v Speaker 2>it is, that nine is education and seven is employed,

399
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:25.680
<v Speaker 2>but gender discrimination in employment was covered transgenderism. And uh.

400
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:30.079
<v Speaker 2>And so I did an interview with two legal scholars

401
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.720
<v Speaker 2>where we just spent an hour talking about that case

402
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and its impact and really how I thought Gorsuch was

403
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 2>leaving himself a back door to eventually change his mind

404
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:47.400
<v Speaker 2>and screw all the trans people all over again, which

405
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.200
<v Speaker 2>he then did this past year. So, you know, so

406
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.319
<v Speaker 2>some real good I thought, some real good, thoughtful work

407
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.200
<v Speaker 2>in addition to the you know, hours an hour of

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<v Speaker 2>jokes field.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you ever you know, a popular topic for us

410
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.880
<v Speaker 1>in the gambling world is civil asset forfeiture. Did you

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00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>ever cover that?

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00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 2>We talked about it. We talked about it a little.

413
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.640
<v Speaker 2>I had. I wrote about it for my friend. My

414
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:22.960
<v Speaker 2>friend Luke O'Neill has a newsletter, and I wrote about

415
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.079
<v Speaker 2>a pretty horrible civil asset forfeiture case out of the

416
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Ninth Circuit. Oh wait, no, that was a qualified immunity

417
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.160
<v Speaker 2>kit because it was the cop I mean, it failed.

418
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.839
<v Speaker 2>It feels like civil forfeiture because it was literally cop

419
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 2>stealing evidence from the result of a raid, Like they

420
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.640
<v Speaker 2>just stole the guy's coin collection. And the Ninth Circuit

421
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 2>found that that was covered by qualified immunity because apparently,

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00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:55.519
<v Speaker 2>uh that they couldn't do that was not already established

423
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.799
<v Speaker 2>in the law. But I've I mean, I've read and

424
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.599
<v Speaker 2>talked about civil civil asset forfiture. I don't know that

425
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I've ever actually done a podcast on it. But yeah,

426
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>you're people who drive around with a lot of cash,

427
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee. Yeah, that seems like something that would come

428
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:10.039
<v Speaker 2>up a lot.

429
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>The police in many places have just literally become highway robbers.

430
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, yeah, what is the place that I

431
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:23.079
<v Speaker 2>think of the most is there's a place in Texas

432
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.759
<v Speaker 2>that has become famous for that in a real like

433
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 2>real Rosco peak coal Traine shit where they just sort

434
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of pull you over and pretext to search your car

435
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.519
<v Speaker 2>and if you've got too much cash on hand, they

436
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.480
<v Speaker 2>just sees it and make you prove that it's not

437
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 2>drug money exactly.

438
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:43.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And we literally had a guy on our show

439
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:49.000
<v Speaker 1>who was pulled over and the reason was because he

440
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.440
<v Speaker 1>was driving the speed limit. Yeah, and that was suspicious

441
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:58.079
<v Speaker 1>to nobody drives exactly the speed limit, right exactly. That

442
00:27:58.200 --> 00:27:59.599
<v Speaker 1>was their Uh.

443
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.240
<v Speaker 2>That's you know, you read enough cases and you see

444
00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 2>that probable cause is itself a dog's breakfast of cop nons.

445
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:13.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, like if you read cases about like profiling

446
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:18.680
<v Speaker 2>drug couriers, like the excuses that law enforcement agencies give.

447
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:20.920
<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, they're walking too fast, or they're walking

448
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 2>too slow, or they're walking too normal, or they look

449
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:27.119
<v Speaker 2>too nervous, or they look too calm, like everything that

450
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 2>you could do. And you what you eventually figure out

451
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 2>is either they know you are doing it through whatever means,

452
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:39.039
<v Speaker 2>but they have to figure out a pretext to stop

453
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.640
<v Speaker 2>you as an individual, or you are just the guy

454
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:46.480
<v Speaker 2>whose number came up that day, and then they retcon

455
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:49.079
<v Speaker 2>of reason to have stopped you in the first place

456
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:53.519
<v Speaker 2>if they hit the jackpot and you have something incriminating

457
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:58.119
<v Speaker 2>or a plausibly incriminating on you. So if you're wondering

458
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:05.519
<v Speaker 2>why all of my podcasts or left, that feeds into

459
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:06.079
<v Speaker 2>it a lot.

460
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Have you Have you ever listened to The Moth?

461
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Sure? Sure?

462
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, because you know what this reminds me of. I'm

463
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>a big fan of The Moth, and I have participated

464
00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:25.839
<v Speaker 1>in many, many story slams. But I remember a particular

465
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>story about a lawyer in Michigan who had a case

466
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.000
<v Speaker 1>that went all the way to the Supreme Court, basically

467
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:39.680
<v Speaker 1>defending a guy who, uh, he was somewhere in public

468
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:42.319
<v Speaker 1>I forget where, at a picnic or something where there

469
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.720
<v Speaker 1>were a lot of people around, families with children, and

470
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 1>something happened and the guy just lost his ship and

471
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 1>started yelling fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, and the

472
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:59.559
<v Speaker 1>police arrested him for some weird, some weird archaic law

473
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:04.039
<v Speaker 1>about you know, using foul language. Yeah, the ladies or

474
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 1>something like them. Anyway, it was it was a great story.

475
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.920
<v Speaker 1>What was the weirdest case you ever came across.

476
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Well along these lines. The one that I'm thinking of was,

477
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.079
<v Speaker 2>I believe there are two I'm going to give you.

478
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>One is like this and one is a very bad maraice.

479
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm talking to a non legal audience, so you

480
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>may not have heard the second one. The first one

481
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:39.039
<v Speaker 2>was in North Carolina case where a guy is driving

482
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:43.279
<v Speaker 2>down the road and he sees a cop giving someone

483
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.759
<v Speaker 2>a ticket, and he and I'm not going to remember

484
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 2>this perfectly, but this is roughly what it was. He

485
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:54.279
<v Speaker 2>gives from the passenger seat. He gives the cop the fingers.

486
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.680
<v Speaker 2>He drives, as you know, his wife drives by, and

487
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:01.599
<v Speaker 2>the cop, all pissed off, gets in his car and

488
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:06.799
<v Speaker 2>chases him down. And first and like, the reason they

489
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 2>were kept arresting it arrested him kept changing because at

490
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:13.960
<v Speaker 2>a certain point he's now suing to he's like either

491
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 2>trying to exclude certain evidence, or he's trying to get

492
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the case dismissed, or he's bringing a civil suit. Like

493
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:24.160
<v Speaker 2>it's all very fuzzy now. But the cop first like

494
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.559
<v Speaker 2>tries to pull them over for some kind of endangerment,

495
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Speaker 2>and then he try pulls him over for some kind

496
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:34.680
<v Speaker 2>of public you know, obscenity and like it's all nonsense,

497
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:41.359
<v Speaker 2>And it took multiple rounds of appellate litigation before the

498
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.640
<v Speaker 2>North Carolina Court finally, like Supreme Court through it, but

499
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.240
<v Speaker 2>the lower courts had let it stand on the complete

500
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:54.039
<v Speaker 2>pretext of what the police had. The second one is

501
00:31:54.279 --> 00:32:00.559
<v Speaker 2>infamous in cop circle, I'm sorry. In law circle, guy

502
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Speaker 2>in Louisiana gets arrested. And you know the basics of Miranda, right,

503
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.839
<v Speaker 2>if you ask for a lawyer, they have to stop

504
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:13.720
<v Speaker 2>questioning you. Their exceptions in the Supreme Court keeps creating

505
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:17.720
<v Speaker 2>more exceptions, but the basics are, if you ask for

506
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:21.480
<v Speaker 2>a lawyer, they have to stop questioning you until you

507
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:26.599
<v Speaker 2>have been provided count. And this guy is being questioned

508
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and he goes, I need a lawyer dog and the

509
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.839
<v Speaker 2>cops say, well, you know maybe, and then they go

510
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.119
<v Speaker 2>back to questioning it. And in writing the opinion, and

511
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.559
<v Speaker 2>this was like a secondary opinion, It wasn't the main opinion,

512
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.319
<v Speaker 2>but it was important enough that this one judge put

513
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.759
<v Speaker 2>it in writing, is that he said it was ambiguous

514
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:55.480
<v Speaker 2>as to whether he was asking for a lawyer Comma

515
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:02.440
<v Speaker 2>dog referring to the officer or a canine attorney. And

516
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 2>if you are going that far. Judge actually put that

517
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:12.119
<v Speaker 2>in writing. This is an appellate judge in Louisiana put

518
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>it in writing to defend the post the actions of

519
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.359
<v Speaker 2>the police by saying it wasn't a sufficiently clear statement

520
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:25.119
<v Speaker 2>of interest in it in an attorney because it had

521
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>a linguistic ambiguity, And it's a linguistic ambiguity that only

522
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:37.680
<v Speaker 2>exists if you are trying to excuse police misconda. Wow, yeah, yeah,

523
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's literally I shot the clerk from my

524
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>cousin Vinnie, where I swhear a statement phrased as a question.

525
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.599
<v Speaker 2>If you just change the punctuation because the question mark

526
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:53.440
<v Speaker 2>comes in tone, not in grammar, then it becomes a confession. Right,

527
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.359
<v Speaker 2>I shot the clerk. I shot the clerk right now,

528
00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 2>it's now it's a quo. Now you change a question

529
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.880
<v Speaker 2>mark to a period in the transcript and it's a confession.

530
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Right Yeah.

531
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:08.639
<v Speaker 2>But nonsense. And that's what lawyer dog is. So that

532
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:10.119
<v Speaker 2>one is pretty infant.

533
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:17.960
<v Speaker 1>So what about what is the most realistic lawyer show

534
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:23.039
<v Speaker 1>in television? And what is the most ridiculous lawyer show?

535
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean, willing to go back, however far back you want.

536
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:33.159
<v Speaker 2>To go, I watched twenty minutes of suits and was like,

537
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I can ever watch this? Yeah, and so I don't

538
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:40.599
<v Speaker 2>know anything ridiculous. I don't know if that gets less ridiculous,

539
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.320
<v Speaker 2>but I just know that the first thing that I

540
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:48.400
<v Speaker 2>learned was that one guy was faking his law degree,

541
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:52.119
<v Speaker 2>and then there was some interaction that I thought was ridiculous,

542
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and then there was that one actor who had like

543
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the something about Mary Choppers, and I'm like, I'm out,

544
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:04.079
<v Speaker 2>and I'm thinking, I'm trying to think of they don't

545
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.880
<v Speaker 2>really have realistic law shows because any kind of realistic

546
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 2>law show is too boring to put on television. You know,

547
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:17.960
<v Speaker 2>it's all backroom stuff and there's nothing that approaches the complete,

548
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:23.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, urge in miasma of what actual courtroom testimony

549
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:27.679
<v Speaker 2>looks like. You know, you're going through paper documents. There's

550
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:33.039
<v Speaker 2>no dramatic confrontations, none of it's real. I guess Absence

551
00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:38.559
<v Speaker 2>of Malice as a movie was an interesting It hasn't

552
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:40.440
<v Speaker 2>been a long time since I've seen it. But that's

553
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.840
<v Speaker 2>like Paul Newman and Sally Field. I thinkspoon very young

554
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.519
<v Speaker 2>and then no, no, no, no, no. Reese Witherspoon's parents probably

555
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:54.159
<v Speaker 2>hadn't met yet. This is absence of malice is like

556
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.119
<v Speaker 2>a prime Paul Newman and prime Sally Field. This is

557
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 2>like a movie from like seventies where where Paul Newman

558
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:08.440
<v Speaker 2>is some kind of uh It's like a combination courtroom

559
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:15.400
<v Speaker 2>drama and newspaper like journalism criticism, where he is this

560
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.800
<v Speaker 2>guy who I guess is being falsely charged in the press,

561
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:24.360
<v Speaker 2>but he's also being like all of this reporting is

562
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.000
<v Speaker 2>being done, but because he's a public figure, you know,

563
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.599
<v Speaker 2>under the New York Times, he Sullivan standard. An absence

564
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.360
<v Speaker 2>of malice means that a falsehood printed about a person

565
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 2>doesn't give grounds for a libel suit, you know, And

566
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.199
<v Speaker 2>I remember that. It's been a while, but I remember

567
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 2>that being a little closer, you know, like Law and

568
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.280
<v Speaker 2>Order is. You know, I do believe that the DA

569
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:56.559
<v Speaker 2>commits constitutional violations every week. But the ones you know

570
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:59.480
<v Speaker 2>that go on in that show sometimes they you know,

571
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:03.599
<v Speaker 2>they make the judges bend to the will of the plot,

572
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, like they don't really they don't really craft

573
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 2>the arguments in applausible way in either direction both times.

574
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:20.199
<v Speaker 2>And so even though I'm addicted to it, yeah, I

575
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.639
<v Speaker 2>have a real love hate relationship with Law and Order,

576
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 2>it's like one of those shows where it's like the

577
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.599
<v Speaker 2>it's like the Sopranos, where I don't really like the

578
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:34.559
<v Speaker 2>District Attorney's office and I don't you shouldn't like Tony Soprano.

579
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:38.199
<v Speaker 2>But the way they make Tony Soprano likable is his

580
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.280
<v Speaker 2>agonists are always worse people than he is, right, Like,

581
00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a lot easier to root for Tony Soprano when

582
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:51.159
<v Speaker 2>the alternative is Ralph sifarero right, so they kind of

583
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.519
<v Speaker 2>like they you end up being taken down this garden

584
00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 2>path of rooting for this obvious monster because of the

585
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:02.559
<v Speaker 2>structure of the show in the career.

586
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, did you ever watch Boston Legal?

587
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.679
<v Speaker 2>A little bit but a long time ago? Like I

588
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:11.599
<v Speaker 2>feel like I saw no, you know what, I never

589
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>saw Boston Legal. I was confusing it mad with Alan McBeal.

590
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:17.679
<v Speaker 2>I never I know, No, I didn't watch Boston Legal

591
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.199
<v Speaker 2>because there's any one of those totally ridiculous.

592
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.480
<v Speaker 1>But but it was a very funny show.

593
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:24.360
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, sure, I think there's a lot of that.

594
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:28.239
<v Speaker 2>But in the same it's like my brother in law

595
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 2>is funeral director and he couldn't watch Six Feet Under,

596
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.800
<v Speaker 2>and I bet It's very hard for doctors to watch

597
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.800
<v Speaker 2>hospital shows, you know, because all you do.

598
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Is any movie that has gambling in it, you know, right, Yeah,

599
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.639
<v Speaker 1>they just never get it right.

600
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

601
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean like I supposed to be a news show

602
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 1>like sixty minutes. They just never get it.

603
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Right, right, right, I mean think about the end of

604
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:01.119
<v Speaker 2>the Cincinnati Kid, right, oh yeah, going to an inside

605
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:05.639
<v Speaker 2>straight flush, Like literally the logic of his gambling was

606
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I have enough money to just keep doubling down for infinity.

607
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you know.

608
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Them, Yeah, it's anything like It's like it's called Gellman amnesia,

609
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.199
<v Speaker 2>which is a kind of a it works mostly as

610
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 2>conservative media criticism, but I give them credit for it

611
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:35.840
<v Speaker 2>because I've seen it enough. But Gellman amnesia is if

612
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.880
<v Speaker 2>you see the news media writing about anything that you

613
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:43.400
<v Speaker 2>know about, you know that they have screwed it up, right,

614
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:45.679
<v Speaker 2>you know it in nuance and you're like, I can't

615
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.159
<v Speaker 2>believe that they paid someone to write this. And then

616
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>you turn the page and you read the news and

617
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.159
<v Speaker 2>you go, oh my god, that's horrible, right, because you've

618
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:56.960
<v Speaker 2>already forgotten how they're not experts in that either, and

619
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.000
<v Speaker 2>so you've they're probably somewhat at least a little world

620
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.880
<v Speaker 2>about that too, you know, And so that's usually used

621
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:09.760
<v Speaker 2>to bash the liberal media, but I also think it's

622
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:15.679
<v Speaker 2>generally of anyone kind of getting over their skis about topics.

623
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Enough about Well, this has been great. I have really

624
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:21.079
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed it.

625
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh wait, I wanted.

626
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 1>To ask you. You said you had some travel stories.

627
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I guess, as life is a gamble. There were

628
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.199
<v Speaker 2>two things that I did when I was a kid,

629
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:35.039
<v Speaker 2>which I think is the kind of thing you can

630
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 2>only do when you're in your twenties. The first was

631
00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I was like right out of college, and I was,

632
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:47.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was. I wasn't smart enough to really

633
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:51.960
<v Speaker 2>know how to backpack around Europe, but I could take

634
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.239
<v Speaker 2>luggage to London. And so I was staying in a

635
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:59.199
<v Speaker 2>hostel in London, and I decided I wanted to get

636
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.559
<v Speaker 2>out of the city, but I wanted to travel light.

637
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>When I got out of the city, and I was

638
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.280
<v Speaker 2>staying in a hostel that had like a three day limit,

639
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.400
<v Speaker 2>but I was like, okay, I'm going to be here

640
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:14.400
<v Speaker 2>for three days. I'm going to like go, you know

641
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else in England. I don't even remember where I went.

642
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.280
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe I went to Cambridge. I don't know

643
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.480
<v Speaker 2>I was I'm too old to remember exactly what a

644
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:27.920
<v Speaker 2>trip when I was nineteen was. But so I decided,

645
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:33.320
<v Speaker 2>against every posted thing, to just take my luggage and

646
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:36.599
<v Speaker 2>stick it in the back of their storage room which

647
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:42.320
<v Speaker 2>had like everything I was traveling with, and just roll

648
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:45.239
<v Speaker 2>the dice on being able to get as and it's

649
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 2>always full, Like the time of the year that I

650
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:50.880
<v Speaker 2>was there, it's like always full. And I was like,

651
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I am going to try I'm going to just leave

652
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 2>it there and hope that when I come back to

653
00:41:56.519 --> 00:42:00.280
<v Speaker 2>London in four days that I can stay here for

654
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.320
<v Speaker 2>two days with my bags. And it was there, and

655
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 2>so I went and I just went to the airport

656
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:14.239
<v Speaker 2>after those last two days, after just letting them watch

657
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:19.320
<v Speaker 2>my bags, you know, for for a few days. And

658
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:24.480
<v Speaker 2>the second one was after law school. I really wanted

659
00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to take a trip and I had one thing which

660
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:30.960
<v Speaker 2>was kind of planned, and then the person I was

661
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.519
<v Speaker 2>doing it with couldn't do it, and so it fell through.

662
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.840
<v Speaker 2>And now I'm like a month from starting my job

663
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.559
<v Speaker 2>out of law school and I haven't traveled anywhere, and

664
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, well, and so I decided to fly jump

665
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:48.360
<v Speaker 2>seat on whatever was available, and so this, you know,

666
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:52.920
<v Speaker 2>this is where you are like the meat sack accompanying

667
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.320
<v Speaker 2>some like thing that has to be shipped internationally. But

668
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 2>they need someone to a courier. They need someone to

669
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:05.480
<v Speaker 2>act as Yeah, jump seat is when you're like an

670
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:10.000
<v Speaker 2>extra staff person, like just hopping on your own airline. Yeah,

671
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.679
<v Speaker 2>so courier flight. And so they're like, well, we have

672
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.119
<v Speaker 2>a trip to Hong Kong for two weeks. And I

673
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.360
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, I'll do that, I guess, And I

674
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 2>flew to Hong Kong for two weeks. And I thought

675
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.039
<v Speaker 2>that because it was only recently an English colony that

676
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:39.079
<v Speaker 2>everyone would speak and most of non financial center Hong

677
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Kong was so happy to be rid of the English

678
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 2>that it was like a real drag of two weeks,

679
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.280
<v Speaker 2>because two weeks is a long time to be in

680
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Hong Kong unless you're really wealthy and don't speak any Chinese.

681
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:00.400
<v Speaker 2>So that was like, that was real mixed. The only

682
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.559
<v Speaker 2>thing I really remember enjoying in Hong Kong, other than

683
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the food, which you know, really cheap food, very good.

684
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Wherever I went, it was like very cool unless they

685
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:13.920
<v Speaker 2>just gave you the white person's menu. Then it was

686
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:18.039
<v Speaker 2>just like ordering kind of place on flat bushet Avenue.

687
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:24.239
<v Speaker 2>But but going to the racetrack was always was like

688
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that's the universal language. It's just going and betting small

689
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:33.840
<v Speaker 2>amounts of money, you know, off of a half assed

690
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:37.599
<v Speaker 2>review of a racing form. And so wherever you are

691
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.519
<v Speaker 2>in the world, that was always a blast.

692
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Well. And also the race tracks in Hong Kong there

693
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:48.079
<v Speaker 1>were only two, and racing is really really popular there

694
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:52.079
<v Speaker 1>and it's exciting at the racetrack there as opposed to it.

695
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, and Chatin was really cool, Like Chatin

696
00:44:57.639 --> 00:44:59.559
<v Speaker 2>is the one that's like outside of the city, like

697
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.719
<v Speaker 2>in the a little north in the suburbs or something,

698
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:09.440
<v Speaker 2>and like it's beautiful and you know the gallery is,

699
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, the place to go and watch for free,

700
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 2>was packed like a subway platform, but you could get

701
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.639
<v Speaker 2>like a seat with an like elevated and looking at

702
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:23.840
<v Speaker 2>it was like three dollars. Yeah, you know, like it

703
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.280
<v Speaker 2>was really like not you know, you're not sitting in

704
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.760
<v Speaker 2>like the polo club or anything, but you are sitting

705
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:35.360
<v Speaker 2>in like a really comfortable seat, you know, with your

706
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:41.159
<v Speaker 2>own like you know, nice bedding window. Back then, it

707
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:44.199
<v Speaker 2>costs like nothing to be like a little comfortable, and

708
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>so it was really I love that play. Yeah.

709
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Hong Kong I really like if I was going

710
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.400
<v Speaker 1>to live in Asia, I think Hong Kong would be it.

711
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:57.400
<v Speaker 1>And as far as the food, I've had better Thai

712
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:02.360
<v Speaker 1>food in Hong Kong than I have in Thailand. So yeah,

713
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the food there is is just tremendous.

714
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.920
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, I developed a minor kanji addiction.

715
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Uh my uh. I always ask my guests their favorite

716
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.239
<v Speaker 1>restaurant Las Vegas that is not in a casino.

717
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:21.039
<v Speaker 2>I can't say that I have a ton of experience,

718
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:26.480
<v Speaker 2>but the time I've only been to I've only been

719
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:29.000
<v Speaker 2>to Las Vegas once, and when I was there, I

720
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.920
<v Speaker 2>went with a friend who took me to a Tokyo

721
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:39.440
<v Speaker 2>style Italian place called Nakamura Yah, which was interesting and fun,

722
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and so that would that that is the only actual

723
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:45.360
<v Speaker 2>recommendation I could give.

724
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have been combination of Japanese and Italian food.

725
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, my my friend, I my friend Aaron Kessler,

726
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:58.639
<v Speaker 2>who some of your listeners may know because he's gaming

727
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:02.920
<v Speaker 2>industry guy. He said, I asked him to remind me

728
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the name of the Italian Japanese fusion play, and he

729
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:11.920
<v Speaker 2>chided me in response that it is not fusion, but

730
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.519
<v Speaker 2>rather Tokyo style Italian, So I don't want to get

731
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:20.480
<v Speaker 2>on his bad side or theirs or theirs right or there.

732
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:26.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, Charles, this is this has been great. I've enjoyed

733
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:29.400
<v Speaker 1>it immensely and I just want to thank you for

734
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:30.239
<v Speaker 1>coming on the show.

735
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much, and to everyone. If you want

736
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.639
<v Speaker 2>to check out the podcast, it's at No homework Dot website.

737
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:42.880
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to help me defeat my horrible foe, Josh,

738
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:46.880
<v Speaker 2>just reach out to me. Just google my n It's

739
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:47.320
<v Speaker 2>super great.

740
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:49.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, I have to say googling your name, it's

741
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.679
<v Speaker 1>it's not as easy to find you as you would think.

742
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:56.719
<v Speaker 1>First of all, I expected, you know, every comedian has

743
00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:02.079
<v Speaker 1>like YouTube videos and Instagram reels, and I don't know

744
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:03.519
<v Speaker 1>either of those. For you.

745
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:06.840
<v Speaker 2>I think I hit all of my stand up because

746
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:11.119
<v Speaker 2>the only stuff that I had was over twenty years old.

747
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:13.760
<v Speaker 2>And I don't need to answer for anything that I

748
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:20.119
<v Speaker 2>said as a child. The Statute of Limitations has expired

749
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:26.840
<v Speaker 2>on my opinions from the early two thousands and and

750
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I get, but you know you spell it with one

751
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 2>R and it directs youat of my social media.

752
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:38.480
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, okay, you're you're no longer on Twitter, right.

753
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:41.719
<v Speaker 2>No, but I am a Blue Sky I am that

754
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:46.400
<v Speaker 2>is my new uh that is my new retirement home.

755
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:52.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah all right, okay, well thanks again and just want

756
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:56.239
<v Speaker 1>to say the listeners you can, I welcome your feedback.

757
00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:59.960
<v Speaker 1>You can always reach me at Life is a Game,

758
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:04.320
<v Speaker 1>humblepodat gmail dot com, or you can still find me

759
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:08.480
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at our WM twenty one. Have a good one,

760
00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:09.239
<v Speaker 1>everybody good.

761
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 2>A free audio post production biophonic dot com