Speaker 1: Yeah, you're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and
now it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.
Speaker 2: Good evening, good morning, and welcome wherever you are. This
is the Hepanmo Show on Harpanwo Radio and the Paranormal
Peep Show on the UK Paranormal Radio Network. My name
is Ben Emlyn Jones and I'm joined by I'm co
hosting this, but I'm also introducing it Neil Ward, who
you're familiar with. Hello Neil, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: Hello Ben, Hello Heipano viewers, and hello Paranormal UK Radio
Network viewers or listeners and yet and I'm Neil from
the Paranormal Peep Show and we've obviously discussed with you
Ben as a guest on our show, so it's about
time I thought i'd come and reguest the game once
on yours.
Speaker 2: Oh it's Rudy. You're always welcome, Neil. And you know what,
we have a very interesting gentleman to speak to today.
It is a Stephen Sacilarios and he's going to tell
us all about himself and what he does. So Steven, welcome,
How are you very good?
Speaker 4: Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 2: Thank You're very very welcome to beg was just perhaps
you could introduce yourself and the kind of things you do,
and be ray intering to hear from you.
Speaker 4: Well, my interest is kind of twofold, but for our
purposes it's reincarnation. And I have a master's in counseling.
First of all, I've studied Eastern mysticism for something over
fifty years, so those are my qualifications. And I produced
a documentary on reincarnation called In Another Life Reincarnation in
America that was released in two thousand and three and
it's still being distributed to universities. So in I released
that in two thousand and three, and a couple of
years later I ran across what I thought might be
a past life of my own, and this was a
nineteenth century American writer named Matthew Franklin. Whittier looks almost
exactly like me. But when I looked at the picture,
I just kind of stumbled on his engraving online and
looking into the eyes, I said, I'm looking at myself.
It was a very strong experience, a recognition. So you know,
for a while I got some information on him. There's
one biography He's astute thesis, and some literature. His brother
was famous John Greenleaf Whitti or the Quaker poet, so
I could get a little information from there. But Matthew
was the little brother, and he's really given short shrift
in that biography. He's really looked down on as kind
of the black sheep of the Whittier family. And I
didn't feel that was right, so I started researching it.
In two thousand and nine, I said, I'm going to
start using all the things, all the methods that I
learned when I was producing my documentary. I'm going to
combine them all and I'm going to use them to
research my own case as rigorously as I can. And
I did, and what I found was that not only
was I able to prove that that was myself in
the past life, which I can talk about my methods
for that, but I also found that he had quite
a literary legacy was forgotten and buried in the historical
record because he'd published everything anonymously. He'd hit himself and
all kinds of people had falsely claimed his work and
plagiarized his work, and scholars also had said, well, I
don't know, this is a really good piece of work.
I don't know who belonged to But let's assign it
to this guy. You know. They're very sloppy with that,
which very much surprised me. But if one scholar somewhere
on very fragile basis decides that that was you know,
so and So's work, then everybody, once it's in print,
everybody signs off on that, and they all believe that
that's absolute fact and you can't question it, you know.
So anyway, I found this legacy, excuse me, there was
really quite remarkable, and some of these pieces were plagiarized
by famous authors. So that's where I lose everybody. Everybody
assumes I have to be a fruitcake because I claimed
that in a past life, I woul the one that
wrote these famous pieces. So that makes me somewhat controversial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. Now on the subject of reincarnation is
that it's this is an extraordinary claim, but it does
seem to have some lot to back up. In many
many cases, this is the idea that we as people,
even though we are ourselves and we have our own
personalities and our own our own identity, that at some
point in the past, some part of us, the soul
or the consciousness or whatever actually lived as another person.
In some cases it is actually in the past. Other
people have memories of existences in other worlds of the universes,
even as other beings. But it's an incredible amount of
evidence there is for this. It's extraordinary, you know, memories
and things like that. But so I'd like to come
on to how you came to this conclusion and how
you work this out. But first of all, Neil, do
you want to say anything. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 3: When we scheduled this original interview, I mean this backtracking
slightly here. When we scheduled this original interview with Stephen,
it was going to be for maybe a month or
two down the road, and we were going to have
another lady talking about her poltergeist experiences from a long
time ago, and she wanted to be anonymous, but literally
dialogue over email to sort of arrange dates and things
is suddenly kicked off again for her, and she said,
I can't go through with this simply because talking about
it is setting off all this poltergeist activity. So it's
interesting just from that point, I owned that it's almost
like someone or something doesn't want her to proceed and
is trying to control her, which I thought was interesting,
But we can come more back to the Psidekicks stuff
and maybe the mediumship things later on. I know that
in previous interviews with Steven we discussed about kind of
the techniques and things. Steve, and also that you believe
that Matthew Whittier the life that you had, you're in
communication with his partner and still around that hasn't ring.
Calne is yourself and can you tell us a bit
about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I consider her my spirit wife, and we first
connected in March twenty ten, March ten, twenty ten, and
that was through a psychic medium. I actually hired two
that year. But I wrote to this lady whom I'd
had readings with before, and I told her very little
about it, just that there was a past life I
wanted to look into. And I don't even think I
told her that much. I just said I wanted a reading,
and she wrote back and said, no, I won't read you.
And she said the reason is that there's an attached spirit.
And she says looking at you is like looking at
an image and a funhouse mayor all distorted. So that's
you know, Well, what was happening was I was so
much immersed in my past life that there's actually two
I'm really living two lifetimes in the same time, and
that created that effect, apparently. So I explained to her
a little more. I didn't want to tell her too much,
you know, so I explained her a little more that
I had this past life that I had identified, and
I thought that my past life wife was trying to
contact me. And she said, oh, okay, now I understand
what's going on. She saw what these things were being
caused by. So she said, okay, I'll read you. And
then that was the reading. It was like two o'clock
on the March tenth, and the first thing she said
is that I almost called you an hour earlier because
I was getting bombarded with images as whole for the
last hour, you know, which tells me that Abby really
wanted to talk to me, you know. So then we
proceeded with the reading, and I took notes in real time.
I wasn't recorded, but I took notes and learned quite
a bit about Abbie. And I also found out many
years later that a lot of the stuff she said
was accurate, made a lot of hits, which I didn't
know were hits because I hadn't delved into the history yet,
but as I did, I was able to prove i
don't know, maybe some ten points or something that she
talked about historical things about Abby as a person and
so forth. So that was our first contact. And then
I had another reading, I think it was in December
of that same year, and more hits. Then learned more
about Abby, so I started trying to connect with her,
you know, and at some point we married, you know.
I mean, all I did was I went out to
the beach at night and I put on a ring
like here, and presumably she put one on, and we
were married. So our anniversary is coming up, our fifteenth
anniversary is coming up very soon on the tenth. And
she taught me a couple different methods of communication, and
one was sort of like dowsing. You know. I would
hold my hand up and hold it limp and then
like my ring finger, that finger would go down and
I would try very hard not to do it myself.
It's very tricky in terms of your subconscious mind influencing
what you're doing, but I could get it was like
yes no, and a prompt or and a maybe, you know.
That was all we had. But you can play twenty
questions with that. You can say is it this, or
is it this? Or is it this? Prompt? Okay, it's that,
And now that I know that's what you're telling me,
then how about this and this? And you can dig
down into, you know, what she's trying to tell me.
And I also use the prompts for things like movies,
Like I would go to the library or to the
store and or online and I would say, how about
this one? How about this one? And then I get
a prompt, so then I'd go ahead and rent that movie.
And it would typically the first ten or so times
we did that, it would tell us tell me something
about our relationship, you know. So she was kind of
catching me up to speed, you know, about who we
were as a couple. And then she taught me telepathy.
It's just exactly like what many other people have described.
People in the astra world are in a much much
higher vibration and when they communicate with you, what you
get is a burst. You know, it's a burst of
information that contains like a whole paragraph's worth of information.
If you were to write it out, it might take you,
you know, a minute or two, but you get it
just like that. So you guys are probably familiar with
that too. And what she told me was, it's the
opposite of the scientific usual skeptical method, where you don't
believe anything until it's proved. She says, this is the opposite.
She says, you believe it at the outset, and you
practice and gradually you get better. But it requires the
belief to start practicing, right, So that was kind of
opposite the way I normally think about things, Neil. I'm
sure you're a medium familiar with this, but gradually it's
gotten better, you know, to where. Now what I do
is I sit down on a fast typeist. So I
sit down and I just type, and she says, you
have to get rolling, you have to get started to
overcome the inertia kind of So I get started typing
just anything I'm thinking of, and then she starts prompting me,
and I just kind of turn over. Once I get rolling,
I turn it over to her and I just go
prompt to prompt, to prompt to prompt. And when I
get to the end of it, I say, no, I
didn't write that, because she'll give me insights that I've
never had before, you know, things I wouldn't have thought
of things from a different perspective or whatever. So and
you know, she's been able to prove her existence to me,
especially the first year or so. She did all kinds
of things to prove that it was real because she
she knew that if I was going to make a commitment,
you know, it better be real, you know, because I
didn't want to get into into no man's land where
I was getting emotionally invested and I was getting involved,
and yet I didn't know if it was real or not.
So she, you know, threw everything at me to make
sure I understood that it was real. And then what she
told me if I continued to question, I think I
did it through divination, through one of Roomy's roomies. Must
no be. But what she basically told me was I've
given you enough. Now if you continue to question that hypocrisy,
you know, he's very boring, you know, she says that
you know now you've got enough, you know, to make
up your mind. And if you make up your mind.
And the other thing she told me was if you
make up your mind now, that goes for six months
from now and six years from now. The time so
this thing where you know, I'm convinced now, but three
hours from now, I'm starting a doubt. Or I'm convinced now,
but three weeks from now, I'm starting to doubt, and
I need another sign and another sign Jesus. That's that's nonsense.
What you do is if it's true now, it's true
three weeks from now and six months from now. And
that's a matter of personal integrity. You know, you make
the decision. You know, I'm convinced now, Okay, it's true,
and then that has to carry you know.
Speaker 5: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: Once proved, I say, once it's proved, has proved, and
then it's the point is to keep asking for everything
to be reiterated over and over again. It's like raising
the bar or the fallacy the falac. You're not raising
the bar, but this is I've never come across a
case like this, Sir Steven Allen, because I'm interested in
past life memories and things like that, I've been looking
into it an awful lot. I know that there's many
people who have them. Most commonly, young children have these memories.
Very often they lose them as they get older. But
to summarize, you were had a past life in which
you married somebody, a woman, and you both passed away
in that life. You have now come back, but you
maintain a form of marriage or relationship with the spirits
of this woman. Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. Basically. I mean the thing that I
would adjust in all of this is that we're all
a spirit, you know, none of us are a body.
We're just happy to be in one, you know. But
death is just death is just dropping the outer covering,
you know. So the spirit remains the same all the
way through through the incarnation and during the period on
the other side and then back into a It's the
same person all the way through. So you know, she
just happens to be a person like me who just
doesn't happen to have a physical party right now.
Speaker 3: So when you mentioned about the various techniques, and you know,
you get all the data come through almost like a
data stream of information coming through that, and I can
kind of relate to that a little bit. And also
the the other thing you said, which was you know,
you started to doubt things after you've said you know,
you've had to read in or where he started out
three hours later, and and that's a common thing. It's
not just yourself. I've heard and read accounts of people
who have gone to physical seances where they've they've witnessed
incredible things, and then you know, three hours down the
road on their way home, they just started, well, hang on,
could what was really speaking to my father? Or was
it some sort of puppet or was it some man
dressed up?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: And and they convinced themselves by the next day that
it was a whole false thing, you know, And lots
of people have lost out on that because there's no
one there to kind of explain to know you really
did have that experience.
Speaker 2: So I can understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 3: And I think that you know, with today's technology, I've
now gone to seiances and things and readings, and I
recalled these things because that way, there's nothing in your
mind that can make the stuff up. You've got the
evidence on that recording in some way, shape or for
It's more difficult in a saliance where they're swishing out
the lights and that kind of thing, but certainly, when
you have a really good psychic reading with someone, you
know that you've got the evidence, and you know, I've
had some astounding readings from people that couldn't have possibly
known me or my family, you know. So yeah, over
to you Ben anyway.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean this is this is a fascinating,
fascinating going I mean it's so yeah, I don't doubt
I mean, I know these things have a reality. Although,
as I said earlier, what I normally find is that
it's usually children, preschool children usually just when they learn
to speak, they start describing past lives, they start describing living,
alternative lives and things like that, and then as they
grow older these goes away. Jason Leniner is a good
example of this. He actually he believed he was someone
in the past. He said he was a man called
I thought the name lived. It was a pilot in
World War Two, somebody Hustant, somebody Huston. And they found
out that James Houston that's it, James leninjar Yeah, sorry,
his name is James Nay. That's what he calls himself,
James the third because he said that his father was
called James Well and through a lot of inquiries, his
parents made inquiries. A lot of parents don't do this.
They dismissed these as ravings, juvenile ravings, and usually the
child gets over it after like a few years, and
indeed today James has has lost these memories. But during
the time that his parents were investigating this, there's absolutely
no doubt that these memories were accurate. Beyond what a
child would know. He had knowledge that only the original
James Huston would have known the workings of World War
two aircraft, things like that. In your case, Stephen, i'm
your clearium and mature man. When when did these feelings
or thoughts begin for you?
Speaker 4: Well, I did have some childhood memories. Actually. Matthew Franklin
Whittiers lived a lot of his life in Maine on
the East Coast, northern east coast of the United States.
And one of the most beautiful things up there is
the coast, the sea coast. There's rocks and the sea
comes pounding in on the rocks. It's really beautiful. I was.
I lived up there for six years, and Matthew Franklin
Whittier and his writings talks about how beautiful it was.
But as a little boy, I remember saying, I want
to see the rocky coast of Maine. But I didn't
know what Maine was. I'd never seen a rocky coast,
and I didn't even know what the state of Maine was,
and yet I remember that was a theme for me.
I want to see the rocky coast of Maine. So
that was just one example. I think there were some others.
But I also, as a little boy, was longing for
my soulmates. So Abby, Matthew's wife, was his soulmate, not
just his wife, And I remember longing for I was
a little boy, and I was lying in the backseat
of the car fantasizing for, like, you know, an hour
of being with my soulmate, you know, so that I've
been looking for her for a long time from little
But I'm trying to remember some of the other things,
I mean, and there are some other ones there slipping
my mind right now. But even as a little boy,
I had memories of this lifetime. One of the things
that I have determined, which is outrageous, is that Matthew
was the real author of the poem The Raven that
everybody thinks was written by Edgar Allan Poe. Oh well,
it's never will that one, that one yeah, I wrote
with Yeah, I wrote that for Abby's you know. I
mean that was written after Abby's death, about nine months
after her death. But when I was in grade school,
I think it's sixth grade, and they had us read
that poem. I couldn't read it. I started reading it,
and the feelings of grief for a soulmate just overwhelmed me.
I was maybe twelve years old something like that, you know.
And I mean, when I think about it, I don't
think too many boys of that age have that reaction
to that poem. They probably think of it as science
fiction or you know, it's cool, it's about a raven.
You know, it's about a big crow or something, you know,
But they don't have such overwhelming grief for a soulmate
that they can't finish reading the poem, you know. So
that's another childhood example.
Speaker 2: I would say that's interesting because the poem is about grief.
It's about grief and bereavement and things like that and
the possibility of the art of life and things like that.
It's I see. Did so did you eventually get to
the Rocky Coast of Maine?
Speaker 4: I did? Did you?
Speaker 2: What did you feel to because Matthew lived there. What
did you feel when you actually saw it for the
first time?
Speaker 4: Oh, I went. I went to Portland, Maine specifically because
he had lived there, and I wanted to continue my
research there and go to the places that he had
been and see what kind of reactions I got. You know, well,
I mean what I what I got a lot of
was emotions, not so much tangible cognitive memories. And in
order to get flashbacks where you get the full cognitive memory,
I think I decided that you have. First off, it
has to be exactly like it was. But secondly, there
has to be a strong emotional component. So if you
have those two things, you might get a flashback. Not guaranteed,
but you might get one. So I went to places
that were exactly as they were, but they didn't have
real strong emotion attached to them. I'm talking about, you know,
very strong. And I went to places that should have
had strong emotion, like Abby's grave and Matthew's grave and
things like that, but they weren't. They were, you know, different,
you know, it wasn't what I experienced when in that
past life. So the two things didn't come together. The
only time they really came together was when I got
inside Matthew's childhood home, which is the Wittier Farmhouse. It's
kept as a museum and it's kept as much as possible,
exactly the way it was. And on the outside it's
different because they you know, it was just an old
farmhouse without paint or anything, kind of sagging and whatever
from the seventeen hundreds that they fixed it all up.
They completely rebuilt it and they you know, painted it
and everything on the outside. So I when I first
learned about Matthew, I was kind of disappointed. I said,
I don't feel anything. I was very honest. I was
always careful to be strictly honest about these things, and
I said, I want to feel something. I should be
feeling something, but I'm not not getting anything out of
the outside pictures of this house. And even when I
got there, there was very little that triggered memories for
me on the outside. But I didn't realize that they
had spruced it all up. See. So that's how precise
this thing is. The Only thing I remembered was there's
a stream that runs in front of the house, and
right now you can look at it over a guardrail,
you know, on a road, and there was a rock
jutting out, and I said, when I was a boy,
I squatted down on that rock and sailed leaf boats
on that came to me, but I have no way
to prove that. See, that's the problem with past life memory.
If you want to prove it, not only do you
have to get the accurate memory, but you have to
have some way to verify. Well, that's not in the
historical records anywhere. Besides, it's so generic. You know, every
little boy with a stream has sailed a leafboat, right,
So it's useless for research. But then I got inside
the house and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
Boy did I know that place. But they had a
very nice caretaker and I was the only person there,
so he wanted to sit down and have a long conversation.
So I had to maintain I'm having all these strong feelings,
you know, past life flashbacks. This whole thing's so familiar,
but I couldn't tune into it because I had to
maintain to have this conversation. So after about after about
ten minutes, it kind of faded and I wasn't able
to get it back. But I did have one memory,
and it's a memory I can't verify because it's not
anywhere in the historical records. So if you have to
get something that's very specific, you remember it, and then
before you could ever research it later on you find, oh,
there's a record of it. He talks about or somebody
talks about it. That's the only way to verify these things.
But what it was is they have this nearro little
staircase and it's got three steps up in a landing
and then it goes up to the right, I think,
and it's oh, maybe six feet away from the entrance
to the house. And I had a real quick I
saw it in a postcard and it hit me, I said,
I had a really strong memory of when I was
a boy. Apparently, like Matthew was six foot two, so
maybe he was twelve years old or eleven, and he
was already pretty tall boy. He would run at full speed,
put his hand on the banister and swing around and
land on that, you know, land on that landing with
his boost wop like that, you know, as a as
a joke, you know, and his parents would be all upset,
and everybody say, don't do that. You know, Well, now
I look back, and the reason they did that is
I was the only able bodied son who could do
the farm work, and they didn't want me to get
hurt or they wouldn't have anybody to work under farms,
so that I think was why they were so upset.
I didn't know any of that at the time. I
just had this memory of being very mischievous and running
putting there's like a post there's I put my hand
on the bus, swing around, pushed myself up and land
on that landing, you know. And when I got there,
I still had the same memory, you know, I said, yeah,
I used to do that, but can't verify it. See
so most of the things in Portland, like there's a
church called the First Parish Church downtown's the only thing left.
Basically that was the way it was when you know,
I was there. We're talking eighteen thirty eight, eighteen thirty nine,
eighteen forty. I was driving around downtown in the street
dead ends right at that church, and I looked up
and I said, man, I know that. You know, instantly
I knew it, recognized it, And I said, the only
thing is, it's not supposed to be crowded in by
these tall buildings like this. It's supposed to have some
space around it. You know. It felt weird for it
to be crammed in like that because it was the
tallest thing around at the time. So I take that
as a genuine past life memory. But again there's no
way to prove that, you know.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's the thing about the I suppose if
someone from the past did visit, they would they may
think that because a lot of these buildings will be
much newer than the church, and they'll have been built
since and they didn't exist in the past.
Speaker 4: It was consistent. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: I suppose a skeptic would say, that's something you can
like surmise. However, so I know that some people in
your position have come up with very very obscure anecdotes
related to their past life which later on are uncovered
and unknown. But then they are uncovered by a dedicated historian, which.
Speaker 4: I had to be. I had to be my own historian.
Speaker 2: Which because these are things that were not would not
be known to the person who's making the claim, which
is to show what these are. The case I'm find
most interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's what I was able to do. That
not when I went to Portland, but I was able
to do that before. And I would say three, four
or five times. I had a lot of memories, but
three or four or five of them were verified to
that extent, which to me is enough enough to show
that I'm dealing with a real case.
Speaker 3: Did you ever come to any sort of reason of
why you incarnated into this life now and not stand
the spirit world with your beloved.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think when Matthew died, he
became earthbound for a while. I can't prove that, but
I think so. And it was because of revenge, because
he felt betrayed. Because when you're out of your body,
you can read over other people's minds. You can see
their motives and their intent, and you can read their minds.
And he found that a lot of people around him
that he had trusted were actually betraying him. His third
wife at the time, and his brother, his famous brother,
and other people in different ways. I don't mean that
we're necessarily taking money from him, but they were not
who they seemed to be, you know, and he stuck
around to get revenge instead of letting go of it.
So that's that's an important lesson for everybody. You know,
when you when you die, you got to leave it,
whatever it is, leave it and move on, because if
you continue to engage and try to you know, try
to get revenge, you will get stuck, you know. So
that was one reason, I think. And as far as reincarnating,
I think I had an awful lot of karma to
burn off. And Abby said, you know, I'm going to
sit this one out. And not only is she going
to sit it out, but she's my she's my guide now,
you know, so she wings died there. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I had a lot of stuff to go through. But thirdly,
I think that I incarnated to try to reclaim their
literary legacy which had been lost and I think was
quite significant. And this includes not only the Raven but
a Christmas Carol. I believe that Abbey.
Speaker 2: And I'll say, I remember telling me this an email.
Speaker 4: Yes, me, Yeah, And I was born on Christmas, so
I think it was kind of a sign. I said, Okay,
I'm going to come in and I'm going to get
born right on Christmas Day. And that's kind of a
sign to me. You know. So I can't prove that either,
but I can prove that Charles Dickens didn't write a
Christmas Carol, and I can prove to a pretty high
standard that Matthew and Abbey were the original authors.
Speaker 2: Goodness I mean a lot of righteous these ghostwriters. This
is this is a lot of them have ghost writers.
I didn't notice you see the ghostwriters. Well if I say,
you know an attribution which the ghostwriter has, and Mathew's
never had this attribution, He's never had this attribution.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well the ghost Matthew did do ghost writing, and
there are a few novellas that I found. He sold
to people, you know, and let them use their name.
In this case, Matthew and Abby wrote it together. Abby died.
Matthew met Charles Dickens in Boston when he came over
and gave him the manuscript, and then Dickens took it
and reworked it into a ghost story, which it wasn't
see Originally, A Christmas Carol was a spiritualist redemption novel.
All of the elements were supposed to be real, all
the supernatural elements, the spirits, and Marley is an earthbound spirit.
I mean, if you look at that story carefully, what
you'll see is the earthbound spirit is Marley. The three
spirits that visit were originally spirit guides. Then there's the
teaching that a higher spirit has a higher rate of vibration,
that if you touch them, you may levitate. There's astral travel.
There's karma. I wear the chains I forged in life.
That's the principle of karma. There's a life review. There's
all of these elements of authentic occultism, and a Christmas
Carol the Charles Dickens didn't know anything about, and he
never put in any of his other stories. It couldn't
have come from him. All that came from Abbey Poyan
with your Matthew's wife. All of the occult elements originally
came from abbey, and they were intended to be real.
Speaker 3: Well was the original manuscript called that he then gave
over to Charles Dickens.
Speaker 4: I don't know, because I don't have it, but I
would guess it was called a Christmas Carol. And one
of the reasons is that they used a story apparently
that they had written way back in the early eighteen
thirties that's very similar. They used that story almost as
a template to start a Christmas Carol. If you compare
the two, you'll see where they drew elements out of it.
And that's called the New Year's Bells, And that was
about New Year's so and Abby and Matthew together also
wrote a story about Thanksgiving which was claimed by another author.
That's called the Let's see Chanticleer's Thanksgiving Story of the
Peabody Family. So that was primarily Abby's story. So they
were writing holiday stories, so I would guess the Christmas
Carol was the original title. Abby was a musician as
well as being a poet, and it would have been
her idea to call the chapter staves. And the reason
I believe that is, first of all, as I said,
she was a musical prodigy as well as being a
literary prodigy. She was an excellent musician. She played harp
and piano and had a fine singing voice. All of
this I found in the historical record. So a stave
is a musical phrase, but a stave is also can
be a rung on a ladder. And this so this
had a double meeting, and it was each chapter was
a rung on the ladder, because they conceived of this
story as walking each reader vicariously through Ebenezer Scroogeous conversion,
so that the end of it was a vicarious conversion
for every reader. That was the idea they really wanted
to change. They wanted to uplift humanities. They have vast
numbers of people read this, and each one vicariously go
through Scrooge's experience, and so each stave was was a
rung on a ladder to the conversion experience that they
were trying to get each reader too. And Charles Dickens
never understood this at all. He never understood that there
was a double meaning to the chapters being called staves.
He just kept the title and he kept that convention
without knowing what it meant.
Speaker 2: This is extraordinary because of course, I think I don't
know anyone who has not heard the story Christmas Carol.
There's so many movie adaptations. So even if you read
the book, it's there for you, and everyone knows the story,
it's you see it every Christmas. But so did Matthew,
And so Matthew gave them manuscript to Charles Dickens. Did
did Dickens then pay him and say, you go, Matthew,
this is a good bit of ghostwriting you're doing for me,
and here's your here's your fee. Well, then I'll just
say did you just say, well, I'll publish it in
my under my own name and tend his mine. That
would be the definition of plagiarisms.
Speaker 4: We don't know. I do know that Matthew wrote Dickens
a letter and that Dickens received it because his secretary
sent out a canned acknowledgment to Matthew, apparently to a
whole bunch of people, you know, and it probably just
said thank you for the letter. And then Dickens would
sign all of these things and the secretary would send
them out. So we know that Matthew wrote him. I
know that Matthew was a fan of Dickens. I also
know that Matthew was writing in that style before Dickens
ever published anything. But so when I put everything I
know together, my guess is that Matthew, who was a
social activist and a philanthropist social activist long before Dickens ever,
was he saw Dickens as a social activist, as a
fellow activist, and Dickens wasn't in my opinion, there was
just pr it was just public relations, and Dickens wasn't
sincere about it. But Matthew was deeply sincere about his
social activism, and so he would have believed that Dickens
was authentic in that regard, and he would he knew
that he and Abbey had planned to had hoped to
have vast numbers of people read this so they could
elevate humanity see. And the only way he could see
to do that now that Abby had passed on, was
to trick Dickens essentially into publishing this story. That was
his idea, see. So he handed it over to Dickens.
He may have said do with it as you will,
But I look at that as Matthew being fooled, because
Dickens wasn't sincere about the very thing that Matthew admired
the most. See. So it was to me it was
like taking candy from a baby. Especially Matthew was in grief,
you know, so when you're in grief you do things
you know that you might not have done if your
head was clear. Right. So he handed it over to Dickens,
being fooled as to who Dickens really was, and in
grief he probably said something like, you know, do with
it as you see fit. So I think that Matthew
was pleased when Dickens published it in the sense that
he had pulled off this plan. But later on I
think he got maybe he didn't even really read it
at first, but he realized that Dickens had really dumbed
it down severely. He'd secularized it and kind of sensationalized
it and commercialized it to the extent that it was
kind of a mixed bag as to whether it was
a good thing or not. But the spiritual power in
that and the authentic occult teachings that are still in
there are powerful enough to have had a pretty strong
impact even so.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's definitely no doubt about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We saw the film, the film adaptation that was done
in nineteen seventy one, I think on nineteen seventy with
Albert Finney playing Scrooge. We saw Max or Aazon Prime
just around the Christmas time case we were watching Christmas movies,
and it is a great movie and it was of course,
it wasn't always PC stuff now you know, I had
I mean, there was songs. I don't like musicals, but
we kind of endured that. But generally it was a
good story and I kind of really felt that it
upheld a lot of kind of spiritualist principles and things,
but you didn't kind of realize it until afterwards when
you analyze it. And it was a really, really good story,
and it's it's a shame that that story was was
kind of stolen from you. I know that he handed
out over to him, but it's like he got no
credit whatsoever for it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and later on if he had been so inclined,
nobody would have believed him anyway. So yeah, kind of yah.
Speaker 2: So did you feel would you like to in a
sense redeem the identity or the memory of of your
of Matthew and say, well, this was you know, maybe
give him credit to to to to give him credit
for what he'd done. Would you like that?
Speaker 4: Do you think? Yeah? I think that's going back to
why I incarnated. I think that was a big part
of why native. And there's another consideration, and that is
that I mean I have a masters and counseling, as
I mentioned, and I can make a strong case that
Charles Dickens was actually a sociopath psychopath. You know it.
It was all faith, you know, everything and everything that
looks like compassion and concern for the poor and the
whole and religion, all of it was borrowed from other people.
That was part of what he because he didn't just
plagiarize for Matthew. He stole from a whole bunch of people,
and so he knew to steal from people who had
those human qualities, and then he would sensationalize it. And
the combination was very, very popular because I think people
in Victorian times they knew they were supposed to be
reading moral literature, but a lot of people really wanted
you know, that grit, you know, and grime and the
you know, murder and you know, all the horrible things.
They wanted to read about that stuff, but they wanted
to have their conscience clear so that they could say, oh,
I'm reading moral fiction. So Dickens supplied that market because
he took the stories that were from moral writers, but
then he jazzed them up and put you know, spice
in them and sensationalized them so that people would would
want to read them, and they still felt like it
was okay to read them. See. So it was a
formula for financial success for him. But the point that
I was getting to was that Dickens is now being
revealed as a scoundrel by academics, you know. And it
started with the affair that they discovered he had with
an eighteen year old actress, and then they went further
into it and found that he was really quite cruel
to his wife and even tried to have her put
it in an insane asylum when she was quite saying. Yeah. So,
I mean it gets worse and worse, and it's going
to get a lot worse. There was a book published
Halloween before last called The Life and Lies of Charles
Dickens by Helena Kelly, and it goes beyond his relationship
with women, because what scholars have tried to do is say, okay,
he wasn't so good with women. But they kind of
tried to corral it. They tried to create a firewall
between Dickens's life, you know, between that part of Dickens's
life and the rest of it. They said, oh, well,
he was a wonderful human being, except he just wasn't
good with women. See So, but it's not working because
people like Helena Kelly are saying he wasn't such a
good person over here and over here and over here.
Also see like he may have spent an awful lot
of time with prostitutes for example, you know, and may
have gotten syphilis and may have you know. So I
mean it goes on like that. So I think it
gets even worse myself. And I've written a lengthy paper
making this case from a historical record, as well as
making the case that Matthew and Abbey were the original authors.
But I think even if my research is ignored, these
other people are gradually going to expose him. So now
the problem is, and supposedly he wrote this within six
weeks when he was in debt, when he needed almost
in debt, and he desperately needed money, he wrote a
Christmas Carol in six weeks. Well he didn't do that.
He revised it within six weeks to make quick cash
because he was almost in debt. See, which makes a
lot more logical sense.
Speaker 2: When yeah, yeah, some you can't write. I mean you,
I know, he was very he was very prolific, and
he's allegedly very very a bit of a workaholic. But
six weeks you can't. You cannot out at six.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah see, so he didn't. So but the thing is,
as long as people believe he was the author, then
they're going to have to say that this guy that
was cruel to his wife and tried to have her
put in a saint asylum and had this affair. Dickens
even ordered basically told his wife, you have to go
and meet with my, uh my new sexual partner. She
had to go and meet with this young actress because
Dickens told her to do it, just because he was mean.
Speaker 2: That sounds one of his own villains to feel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, that's the thing. He's not a nice guy.
You know. Well, when when this comes out and the
people still believe that he wrote a Christmas Carol, there's
going to be a lot of confusion, and I think
a lot of moral confusion, because the Christmas Carol is
obviously an inspired work. But if this scoundrel could dash
off this thing in six weeks for quick cash, then
it wasn't. There's no such thing as inspired work. See
then it's just then anybody that's good enough as a
writer can fake it. And I think that creates a
certain moral confusion that's going to be a real problem
in the future. So I feel like I'm trying to
head that off at the pass. I'm trying to get
my idea out there that Dickens was not really the
author before he gets really thoroughly exposed.
Speaker 3: He wasn't Jack a ripper By, and he stretched the imagination later,
he wasn't yet I think he drove.
Speaker 4: His sister a lot of suicide by either raping her
or seducing her. Yeah, when he got married Catherine Hogarth's
younger sister, Mary came to live with them, and then
all of a sudden she developed some mysterious illness and
dies in his arms. And then he was an actor,
so it was but actors in that day overacted, you know,
So he kicked it into overdrive and overacted his horrible
platonic grief and love for this girl, which he really
hadn't expressed before. And he had to have like a
lock of her hair put in a you know, in
a ring, and he never would take the ring off,
and even to wash his hands hardly, and he would.
He went on and on and on, and he also
commandeered her grave so nobody else could get near it. Okay,
So I think what was happening because a psychopath has
two different people, the real person and the fake person,
running at the same time, so you see the fake one,
but the other one is always there seeing he has
totally different motives for what he's doing. So I think
what happened is that he either raked her or seduced her,
and she killed herself, probably with arsenic and then he
took cover for himself. He had to do the exact
opposite of you know, he had to put on a
great show of his botonic love. But then he had
to get control of his grave so nobody could exume
it and test her because they did have the ability.
I think it was eighteen thirty seven to test for
arsenic see. So that's what I think went down. And
I mentioned it to a couple people in the Dickens
world who nobody's ever thought of this, which blows my mind.
But here's the thing. Dickens had a certain way of
talking when he was lying. He got theatrical, he got overblown,
he got you know, he put on this show. See,
and he's been caught lying using that kind of language.
When he denied his affair, it's called the Violated Letter,
that's what the scholars call it. And the first thing
he said in it was that his separation from his
wife Catherine was mutual and harmonious, you know, it was amicable,
and it wasn't He put her away, you know, and
literally divided the house up and put her on the
other half of the house, you know, and put her
away and forced her to go meet her replacement and
saw on it. He was quite cruel about it. So
that was all a lie. And then the other part
was about how he saw this young woman that somebody
had said this horrible things about being as pure as
his own daughters or something. In other words, he's way overacted,
and we know it's all a lie. The whole thing
was a lie, you know, So if that was what
he sounds like when he lies. He was used the
same kind of overacting with regard to Mary Hogarth's death.
He used the same kind of overacting when he pretended
to explain how he wrote a Christmas carol. It's a pattern.
And once you see that pattern, and you know, logically, okay,
he was definitely lying here with this kind of language,
and now he's using that kind of language here, and
he's using it here, well, he's probably lying in the
other instances also. It's just logic, you know. So when
that comes out, I mean, the the poop is going
to hit the fan, you know, when that comes down,
I'm trying to think, what what can I say on
a podcast?
Speaker 2: You know, we can say that, we can say you
say that, yeah.
Speaker 4: The ship hits the fan, So the ship is going
to hit the fan, you know. And then, like I said,
the people that are protecting Dickens have created this firewall
and they say, well, everybody has a dark side and
some you know, Victorian men worn't really very good with
women and so on. They're trying to hold the line there.
It's not going to hold. It's already been breached.
Speaker 2: So when it comes to to the reincarnation, do you saying,
do you believe this is the reason you mentioned, this
was the reason you are you? You incarnated as Steven
in today's world?
Speaker 4: One of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, does this have it? Obviously a lot, because I
mean there's different ideas about reincarnation, and some are that
you literally do choose who you are. I mean, Robert
Newton wrote the book Destiny of Souls and Journey of Souls,
these two books which they become best sellers, they become
very famous, where he does describe literally people in the
spirit world picking lives almost as you would choose a
trip from a holiday brochure. And some of these lives
are full of hardship, and some of them because the
soul needs to learn something and they need to to
develop and the hardship, the adversities what gives them strength.
But others are there to to write some wrong, to
to be essentially a healer, to be a healer beyond themselves. Right,
it's a commons is a regular thing. It is a
common occurrence, you think.
Speaker 4: I think so. My interpretation of that is that it's
like college, where you know, a you know, a freshman
might not have too many choices for electives. You know,
they've got the required courses. But once you once you're
a senior, you know, you can choose quite a number
of electives. So I'm guessing as somebody grows spiritually that
they have more choices in terms of what they're going
to reincarnate. But the other thing that came to mind
was about the case of Jenny Coquel, who may be
familiar with. She's in you guys country, and she reincarnated
because in her past life she had lost touch with
her children. She died and her children were scattered about
and she wanted to find her children, which she literally did.
There's pictures of her with one or two of her
past life children, who now, of course are like elderly men,
you know. But she was able to do that and
The Chanti Daviy case is somewhat similar. She came back
to be with her husband, who turned out wasn't faithful
to her, you know, but that was her motivation. So
there are cases where people have some unfinished business, something
overriding thing that they feel they need to come back
to get straight. I don't think it's all that common,
but there are cases like that.
Speaker 3: Did you think it's possible get over a colder?
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible that Charles Dickens.
Speaker 3: I'm sure it would be possible, would actually reincarnate as well,
because I've heard that people can reincarnate from say the
Victorian times, and then they've got unfinished business together in
say the twenty first century. So yourself coming through as Stephen,
Charles Dickens comes through as someone else, you know, and
you might have meetings with them and not realize it,
but you have like bowels or something.
Speaker 4: You know, it's possible. I don't have any indication of that,
you know, as I say here, but it's certainly possible.
Speaker 2: This is the basis of the film. I believe it
was the books for Cloud Outless, which is it's a
brilliant it's a brilliant film about people. The different people
do actually literally literally over a five hundred year period,
from the past into the presence of the future, keep
sharing each other's lives in different roles, in different ways
to especially to help each other or to right wrongs,
things like that. It's a really really good story. That's
I mean, do you mentioned that when you saw a
picture of Matthew you thought I was like looking in
the mirror, he looks like you? Is that regular? So,
for example, does everyone reincarnate as someone similar? Is everyone
the same sex for example? Or can women reincarnate as
men and vice versa? Because I know someone actually who's
a woman who's she's very feminine, she's aterosexual, but she
describes herself as a male soul and she even made
a film about a sort of semi off autobiographical film
about her past life as this this man. What do
you believe about that, Stephen.
Speaker 4: Well, I do know that people switch sexes. My impression
is that you'll go for a number of lifetimes at
one sex and then you'll flip over. And the incarnation
where you flip over can be kind of awkward, because,
like you say, you feel like the previous sex eternally,
you know.
Speaker 2: I mean this person, this person is. She said that
ninety five plus percent of her incarnations a male, but
she is experiencing one of her rare female incarnations of
the mind.
Speaker 4: That makes sense, Yes, that makes sense. I think that
my most recent one was probably female. And I've extrapolated
from my impressions and memories a lot about this person,
but I can't identify her in history, so you know,
it's kind of on hold. But I think that I
was a woman.
Speaker 2: Can people reincarnate in your view as and I know
this is this is an old idea. In fact, it's
it's many thousands of years old. People can actually reincarnate
a different species. They can come back as a different
animal of some kind. Have you ever heard of lot?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's common. My understanding is that it's rare to
go backwards, very rare. It may happen on you know,
rare occasions for some reason or other, but typically, you know,
the soul apparently has has gradually progressed through the evolutionary kingdom,
so once you've reached the human form, you don't really
go back, not calmonly anyway.
Speaker 2: That's like in that book The Art of the Art
of Racing and the Rain. I don't know if you've
read that. It's a charming book about it. It's a
family drama where the first person narrator is the family
dog and in the end he dies and comes back
as a human. It's just really good.
Speaker 3: It reminded me actually what you're just saying there, Ben.
And now there was Jane Roberts, the writer from tran
think the El Mira in New York, in the state
of New York. She was a medium in the seventies,
well sixties, seventies and eighties. Died in nineteen eighty four,
I think, aged about fifty three fifty two something like that.
And her husband, Robert Butts, who used to write it
down on the note, she used to channel this entity
or you know, most people call it a spirit guy,
but they called he described himself Seth. That was the
being that she used to channel initially make contacts in
Aluigi board as a previous life called Frank Withers. And
then after about six seven sessions, he said, I would
actually prefer to use my other version of myself, which
is Seth, and he started to speak through Jane what
was in a channeled trance like condition. But during one
of the many, many sessions that they would write and
they were eventually published as books, he actually said that
in a previous lifetime that he'd actually, well, no, it's
actually whilst he was they're as Seth in the spirit world,
if you like. He was also partially incarnated as a
dog on earth, and that would be some time in
the nineteen seventies, and so whilst his consciousness existed over there,
he expressed a tiny portion of his consciousness to share
the body of a dog with a dog consciousness. And
I suppose an analogy might be that if, for instance,
you're you're an observer of a gardener and you go
over to look at a bee on a flower, your
consciousness is project towards the consciousness to be, and maybe
at some subtle thing you're merging to.
Speaker 2: Small point with the bee.
Speaker 3: Maybe I can't say it's absolutely true. It's an analogy,
maybe not a brilliant one, but he was saying that
he projected his consciousness and shared it so he could
get the life experience of what it was like to
be a dog, and obviously it lived to maybe you know,
ten twelve, thirteen, fourteen something and then it eventually died
and they kind of forgot all about it. Many many
years later, they said, oh, you mentioned to us in
one session that you were sharing your consciousness with the dog,
and he goes, yeah, that's that's right. But now the
dog has since died, so you know, that kind of
job has now done thing. So it's just even whilst
he's over there, he's still sending out portions of his
own consciousness to sort of see what life is like
at certain things, whether it's humans or indeed animals. So
I thought I just throws that in. It's an interesting point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, another thing, if I mean, I'll come back to Stephen,
but I just want to mention as a part of
what you're se I'd love to get what Stephen thinks
of this. Dolores Cannon Now, one of the most extraordinary
books I've ever read was The Convoluted Universe, Part two.
Dolores was I met Dolorus. Actually she spoke a probe
one so along with her daughter who was there. She
her technique was very unusual. She would not go into
trance herself, but she was a hypnotized people and put
them into trance and they would then describe alternative lives. Now,
these lives were not necessarily partialized. There were lives almost
It reminds me a little bit of Robert Munroe's Local Three.
You know, the very sometimes very surreal surroundings. And I
never forget. There's one of the sessions she hypnotized a
woman who then when into trance, it began speaking, speaking
in a way she never normally would. So, for example,
this was a woman who's not of she was not
of a high intelligence and education, and tended to speak
in using quite simple language. Yeah, when she was in trance,
she would suddenly start using I would say, speaking in
a way that was above that, above her heard the
level of intelligence and a sophistication that she had as
a person, and would describe like being a robot on
an alien planet and things like that. I mean, I
don't what you think about that, Stephen, I have to know.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know. I've heard of the Lauris canon,
but I don't know very much about her. In a
case like that, I mean, there could be any number
of explanations. I'm trying to remember the name. There was
a psychic in the nineteenth century who did basically the
same thing. He was uneducated, but under hypnosis he suddenly
became quite erudite, you know, and and functioned at a
much higher, you know, academic level than normal. So did
that open up abilities from past lives? Did it open
up certain native capacities in him? Or was there a
spirit that was guiding him. There's a number of different
explanations for something like that, so I wouldn't know which
was which, you know.
Speaker 2: That's truly again, it's unprovable, but it's I thought it's
very very interesting book for an interesting book.
Speaker 4: Contention is, well, there is this proof in it that
if the person really was if it can be shown
that the person really did not have much of an
education and did not function at that level, and all
of a sudden, he does, what are our explanations? Well,
normal explanations. Well, he could have been coached. If you
can prove that he wasn't coached, then there's something supernatural
going on. We don't know what it is, but it's
definitely not normal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll sign the Matthew in his previous life attended sciences,
but he went there with Appy, Is that right?
Speaker 4: No, it was after she passed on.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I know about is that he kept up
a correspondence with the editor of a spiritualist newspaper, and
he acted as the agent for a spiritualist newspaper. And
he was a signer on the eighteen fifty four petition
to the United States Congress by spiritualists. It was like
thirteen thousand signatures or something like that, and he's on there.
But I also know that he was a member of
the Portland Spiritualist Association and that at one point there
was a committee formed from that association. He was an officer.
I know he was an officer in that group. And
there was a committee of maybe six five or six
men that formed to scientifically study physical mediumships. So Matthew
probably wrote the article, but they went to a number
of sciences and they observed phenomena light instruments being played
in the air, you know, without anybody playing them, and
you know, hands touching and so forth. And Matthew wrote
it all up and they all signed it, and he
signed with his real name, which he almost never did.
He signed M. F. Whittier to this. So we know
that in eighteen fifty five he was scientifically investigating physical
mediumship and they made a point that they had investig
they had looked at the whole area carefully and tried
to eliminate any normal explanations and so on.
Speaker 2: For eavement. Actually, bereavement is actually often an inspiration for
things like this. I mean, some people can suddenly develop
an interest for obvious reasons when they lose a loved one.
I mean a good example of this is Bob Bigelow,
a current example. He's now got this BIX, this afterlife
investigation project that he's working on with Leslie Kane, which
when previously they only were interested in UFOs. But all right, yes,
so losing Abby must made him. I suppose it's understandable
you feel comfort from that after losing Abby A few was.
Speaker 4: First of all, she was true with teaching these things,
and early on, when he was in his late teens
and early twenties, he made fun of He ridiculed publicly
in print. You know, he would make fun of astrology
and prescient dreams. I think Abbey was psychic. I think
she really was having prescient dreams, and he would try
to make fun of them as a skeptic. Gradually he
was brought around and he became a follower of Manuel Swedenborg,
and then he got into spiritualism about the time that
he wrote The Raven, which was December of eighteen forty one.
She had died in March. He believed intellectually, but it
wasn't strong enough to withstand grief of losing a soulmate.
So that's why he wrote The Raven. I think what
happened was is that he was up late at night
and he was studying her library. He was reading in
her occult library, and he read a book that had
two things, and one was about animal signs and the
other thing was about manifestations of pursa spirit manifesting, and
he wants it to happen, and he's skeptical and he's
afraid of it. All those things are going on at
the same time because his faith isn't really quite locked in,
so he thinks he hears I mean, the whole introduction
to The Raven was literal. That was autobiography for Matthew.
He literally experienced everything in that poem up to the
point of the Raven. So he opens the door, he
hears something, he opens the door, there's nothing there. Then
his skepticism kicks in. Just like we talked about he
starts to doubt, and when he doubted, he did what
he used to do, which was to write a parody.
He wrote a satire. That poem is a satire on
the occult teaching of animal signs. So what he does
is he created an animal sign that comes in and
tries to convince him against the reality of life after
death as a as a parody of what he'd just
been reading.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I thought that the raven
was just kind of like speaking cryptically or just the.
Speaker 4: Never you'll never there skepticism.
Speaker 3: So what's your plans now, Stephen, for your future in
the research airs, reincarnation and everything.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm laying low because of the situation, the political
situation in the United States. I don't want to get identified.
I don't want my Social Security polled, and I'm really
not doing much of anything right now. People are reading
my papers. I have like a little bit over fifty
papers posted on academia Edu under my name Stepen cycle areas,
and people are reading those. And what Abby told me
is you lay low, let the papers do the work.
That's what I feel like she's instructed me to do.
So I'm just hiding out for the time being, and
I do occasionally write to professors or authors you know,
or writers directly, and I almost never hear back. It's amazing.
I've written to hundreds and hundreds of people, including scholars,
but thats also reporters and writers. They don't write back.
They pretend that, they pretend that if they ignore me,
I'll go away, you know, But they all know that.
The irony of the thing is they all know because
I've written to each one of them, so every single
one of them knows, but not a single one of
them will write to me. So the papers are hopefully
doing the work because I can see on my stats
on academi Edu, like one paper I've got that doesn't
talk about one of these famous cases, it's got eleven thousand,
six hundred eleven people have seen it papers so far,
and nobody writes, you know. But the one about a
Christmas Carol is over I think it's over two three
thousand now, right, must six, So.
Speaker 3: That that helps people read those papers.
Speaker 2: If they're interested to look.
Speaker 4: Into this, well, they can get to my website which
is www dot i A L dot goldthread dot com
and the information is there as to how to see
the papers, or they can go to academi Edu, which
is just www dot academia dot edu and put in
my name. They may have to join. It won't cost
them anything, but they may have to do a membership.
I'm not sure I.
Speaker 2: Have all my free Yeah, I've read a few papers
on then.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you put my name in there and you'll
get all that stuff. Cool.
Speaker 2: I know we're sort of finishing it, but can you
said something that is concerning. Do you believe there is
essentially political oppression now in the United States against what
you're saying because you have to lie low and things
like that.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm talking about Charles Dickens as a sociopath and
he had the same personality disorder as the current head
of our country. So you know, so when I talk
about what, you know, why do I think Charles Dickens
was a sociopath? Sociopath? And I lay it out, it
could be dangerous, you know, if there's any crossover. So
you know, it's like asking you know, it's like trying
to do an interview with somebody in Russia and they say, well,
you know, uh, you know, it's it's like that here,
it's getting it's getting dangerous. So I don't know. But
I'm on Social Security and I have some savings, but
I'm on Social Security and I really don't want my
monthly income pulled, so and Abby has told me to
lay low for a while. What she told me this
is interesting. She tells me a little bit about the
future sometimes, and I'm I think it's okay with her
because I'm in tune with her now. But what she
told me before the election, the recent election, she said,
it's going to get very bad, but it'll be over
fairly quickly.
Speaker 2: That's what is that, don't know.
Speaker 4: They don't argue with a wife.
Speaker 2: Never argue with a wife, well.
Speaker 3: Wherever they are, Ye, yes, dear, Yeah, get very bad
in the sense.
Speaker 4: But ill she didn't clarify, clarify, and she deliberately didn't clarify,
said she. But I didn't know what it meant because
nothing had happened yet. So she said, it's going to
get very bad, but then it'll be over fairly quickly.
That's all. I know. What you just told me.
Speaker 3: That reminds me of a story that we had from
someone who came on the Paranormal Peep Show a couple
of years ago, and he he told us about his
friend called Dave, who is a bus driver here in
the UK. I think he's probably retired by now, but
this guy, Dave, was very, very psychic, and apparently this
guy would kind of sea spirits and all sorts of things.
And there was one particular time that this guy had
gone to bed and he was trying to get to sleep,
but he kept getting a lunching voice saying, go downstairs,
go downstairs, and he said, oh, please let me sleep.
They said, no, please go downstairs. So this guy would
kind of like cajole into going downstairs into his living room,
and he could see that the door was a jar
and a blue light was coming from it. So he thought, oh,
there must be a street lamp or something like that
coming through the curtains. So he went in there and allegedly,
I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, that this
is the way it was told to me. Allegedly he
went in there and there was three tall beings in
his living room. One was standing up and he probably
reached the celia, and the other two were sitting down.
But they almost looked like almost like like wizards in
robes or something that that was a description, and they
said thank you for coming here. That the spokesman was
standing up and I forget what his name was, now,
thank you for coming here. But we've got so very
important to tell you. They said, things are going to
get very very bad, but you're not to get too
involved with people. Don't worry about people. We know you
care for people, but please don't get too involved. And
they said, things are going to get very very bad
in America. They said, and whatever happens there will reflect
over here kind of thing, you know, the same kind
of problems that happened here. Now, they said, please don't
worry too much about people. So at the time, that
was just before the COVID pandemic, and I kind of thought, well,
maybe it's something to do with that, although it didn't
really resonate really strongly. But now I'm wondering all this
kind of Ukraine thing and all the elections. Maybe the
way it's going now, literally it might actually what you're
saying with Abby's what she's told you reflects what this
guy who was told.
Speaker 4: You is exactly the same thing. To get I have
to get involved the state.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, very interesting. Time will and.
Speaker 2: Time will tell I mean the future is he's never certain.
We can always change, but time will tell you. I
think we're better call it a quiz now. But it's
been interesting, Stephen, Thanks very much. It's been interesting hearing
your story. Yeah, that's a pretty unique story, one I've
never heard before. That's and Neil, thank you very much
as well for for co hosting, which a pleasure you.
Speaker 3: Thanks for inviting me, and thank you Stephen for taking
part in this dual program experience. So it's been on
two shows at once, so you certainly laying low.
Speaker 2: I'll tell my listeners not to tell anyone.
Speaker 4: All right, we.
Speaker 3: Can bank out your face and within this spow your name.
Speaker 4: How about that? Well good, you know what, people just
think I'm a fool, and that is the best protection
ric it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go with a jester identity. I think that's probably
the way to do it. Yeah, you'll be saying all right,
but thank you very much once again, Thank you Ben.
Speaker 5: And that's saying good bye bye. It's mass Ma