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Speaker 1: What is going on at Skinwalker Ranch.

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Speaker 2: As soon as you pass the gates, you get this

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feeling that they're like, there's something there, there's something not normal.

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You're entering a place that has this entity there.

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Speaker 3: Something is there, batteries draining, drones dropping, equipment going dead.

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Speaker 1: But when everybody leaves, nothing happens.

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Speaker 2: It's when you introduce people into the property. It's when

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you start seeing all the crazy things going on.

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Speaker 1: Some say it goes further than that.

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Speaker 2: The people that feel that have been you know, basically

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their consciencens abducted have much more profound experiences than people

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that say that they were physically abducted.

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Speaker 3: So he built a sensor network, put it in people's homes,

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and what came back changed everything.

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Speaker 2: These people claim to have experiences during those periods of

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anomalist signal, upload pictures of you know, their anatomy that

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has like rashes and lesions and bloody noses and all

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sorts of things that happen to them.

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Speaker 3: Tonight, the physicists who study we need Skinwalker Ranch and

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the science behind what's really going on. Let's find out. Hey, everybody,

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welcome to the Good Trouble Show. I'm Matt Ford, So

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tonight we're going somewhere most shows won't go. And on

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our show here we've talked a lot about UAP, about

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disclosure and what the government knows and isn't telling us,

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plus all the stuff going on with UAP and Congress.

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But what about the people who are actually experiencing this stuff,

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the ones who see something, feel something, and then wake

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up with injuries they can't explain.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is a physicist.

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Speaker 3: And mechanical engineer who studied under doctor how put Off

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and was assigned to Skinwalker Ranch to investigate medical injuries

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linked to anomalist phenomena on the property. Since then, he's

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built a first of its kind global sensor network that

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is measuring what actually happens to people and their environment

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during these crazy anomalous experiences, all in real time, all

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from inside their homes. Please welcome to the show, doctor

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Jim Sigala. Doctor Sagala, how are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: I'm very good and I'm glad to be here on

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your show to talk to your audience.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you here.

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Speaker 3: Do you prefer doctor Sagala or Jim or or what

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should I call you?

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Speaker 2: I prefer Jim just keep casual.

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Speaker 3: Okay, cool, awesome, very good. Well, super super happy to

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meet you. So glad you're here. So you were a

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mechanical engineer. You had a really great career. What made

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you tell your wife, you know what, I'm going to

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go back to school and become a physicist.

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Speaker 2: Well, when I first went to graduate school, you know,

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I got a master's in mechanical engineering. I always looked

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at those guys that were like getting their pH ds

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as Wow, that's and being scientists. I said, I was

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really jealous. But then you know, life gets in the way.

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You have kids and you have to, you know, get

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a real job. You can't do all the fun things.

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So but I always said I was going to go back.

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And when my kids graduated high school, or the day

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they graduated high school, I made the announcement on going

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back to school to get a PhD. And at that

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point I said I was going to go get a

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PhD or in engineering. But as I took courses and

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I was taking taking electors and physics and things like that,

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I just fell in love with it and just started

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I said I'm switching over. So I switched over to physics.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So was it everything you kind of expected it

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to be. Was it?

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Speaker 3: You know when you when you went into it, did

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you immediately know that's where your focus would be?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And no. I mean as an engineer, my whole

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family was built of all engineers. I mean so and

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engineers are very pragmatic, they're very practical. Everything's a bolt

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and nut. Physicists are very They think in a whole

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different way. It's like it esoteric and it's like, oh,

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we're going to imagine some forces and we're going to

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imagine this. So thinking as an engineer and then tran

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for into thinking like a physicist was a big stretch

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for me, and it took a little while. I mean

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when I was with students that were pure physicists, you know,

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right from the beginning you can tell that they had

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a better grasp of the esoteric type of things that

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you learned in like quantum mechanics and things like that.

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But I eventually got got the hang of it.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of engineer are you?

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Speaker 2: Mechanical so it's all like machinery and you know, stress

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and all that kind of you know, building things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually a doubt electrical engineering technology major.

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Speaker 1: Nice I found that uh.

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Speaker 3: Being an engineer requires you to actually understand and be

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you know, pretty pretty good at math, and which is

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not me. So I, uh, yeah, I ended up dropping

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out of that. But but I do have a love

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for engineering and and like I love machining. I've got

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a cee and see in my garage, and you know,

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I love all love all things nice mechanical. I'm a

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total geek when it comes to that sort of sort

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of stuff. Now I understand, I understand you ended up

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studying with doctor Howe put Off, and this is the

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guy who you have studied remote viewing and advised bigelow

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on kind of the weird stuff going on there.

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Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that here in a bit.

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Speaker 3: What what did he teach you in terms of studying

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what in many ways is the unstudiable as far as

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I know, but maybe maybe it'll surprise me later with

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this move past thing.

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Speaker 2: So when you work with somebody like how you So

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when you go to school, you learn how to do physics,

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you learn how to do science, but you don't know

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how to really form scientific things. How teaches you that.

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I mean you go out in the field and it's

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more of like a like an internship. Then that's what

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I got originally. And you work with him and you

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find out the wrong way to do things and you

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find the right way to do things, and he's a

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coach that helps you to understand how things are going.

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You know how to take data, how to take statistics,

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how to get it right, and how to publish, and

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how to how to make it so that the community,

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the scientific community will accept what you're doing. And that's

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so so important. A lot of people come out of

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school and they go right into it and find out

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that they're you know, they're just not very good grounded

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scientists because they really don't know how to make that

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discovery and make it believable by the whole community.

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Speaker 3: And were you sort of surprised, like how much of

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a change was it for you before you really started

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interfacing with doctor Putoff versus after was it? Did he like,

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you know, completely open a new world or had you

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experienced anything anomalous beforehand before Skinwalker Ranch?

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Speaker 2: So for that type, So when I first started there,

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this was back in twenty ten ish, I was working

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on quantum mechanical experiments and doing things like that, so

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you know, I was it was being involved in some

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of the you know, you know, fringy type of things,

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but not not the WU type of things. But then

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Bigelow brought back all this data from Skinwalker that was

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in the era when Bigelow was and how Putov was

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his science advisor, so a lot of the data came

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back to his organization in Texas. And I started looking

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at that and started thinking, like somebody investigating a phenomena

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that you can't you know, measure and feel and see.

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It's some unknown phenomena that I started investigating. And that's

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when I started to realize that this stuff is is there,

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It's true, it's making it's making differences in people's life,

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it's making different differences in the in the environment. And

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that's when I started to basically fell in love with

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that subject.

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Speaker 3: And let's let's talk about Skinwalker Ranch. I'm actually a huge, huge,

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huge fan of the show. How did you become involved

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in that?

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Speaker 2: So when Bigelow sold the property, he you know, talked

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to How and How was very supportive and he was

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looking for somebody to actually get it, and he How

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knew Brandon Pugel. He also knew him from some other

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things that they had done, you know, called a brand

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and say, you know, would you like to buy this

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piece of property? And they, you know, they they got

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together and they bought the property. And then Hal stayed

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on as science advisor to Brandon for you know, the

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first incarnation of his ownership. And then when Brandon said, look,

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you know, I don't have anybody to do science, to

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do investigations, he said, well, you know, we've got We've

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got a guy here that you know, has all this ability,

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has done a lot of things. They were they were

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at that time looking at so what I worked with

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how on Skinwalker Ranch stuff? Who was always on medical events,

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medical events that happened where people got significantly hurt. And

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when Brandon took over with the property, he was starting

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to see people getting hurt. So he went to Hell

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and said, you know, what do you what do you got?

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You know, can you give me a scientist that I

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could work with that will help me understand what the

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heck's going on my property? And I in myself and

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another scientist was basically assigned to Skinwalker Ranch to help

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them figure things out, you know, on an ongoing basis.

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Speaker 3: When you were first assigned to this, were you kind

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of skeptical of what was going on in terms of

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the physical injuries. You know, what did you sort of

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think that you were walking into before he actually showed

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up on showed up on the ranch.

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Speaker 2: So I never physically went there while I was looking

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at the data from Bigelow. But from Bigelow's data, it

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was apparent there was something going on because he had,

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you know, he was very stringent with his scientific investigation.

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He had people walking the property every day and taking

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seismographic and taking much a magnetic spectrum all over the property.

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So I was seeing anomalies happening well before I even

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got to the ranch. But when I got to the ranch,

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I was allowed to do instrumentation and you know, interview

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people that I were having medical events, and you just

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like a lot of things started to click and make

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a lot of sense to say, well, you know, phenomena

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that happens over here, you know it could be caused

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by something that's happening over here. So you start piecing

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it together in your mind.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's let's go to the first day that

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you walk on to Skinwalker Ranch.

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Speaker 1: Walk me through that.

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Speaker 3: What did you feel, what did you measure, and what

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was the first sort of anomaloust thing you experienced there.

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Speaker 2: So there was a point of time when, you know,

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we did go and investigate. There was an injury that

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occurred on the ranch that myself in a medical doctor,

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went to investigate. You know, we actually went to the hospital,

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looked at their medical records, did all that kind of stuff.

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But when you get to the property, as soon as

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you pass the gates, you get this feeling that they're like,

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there's something there. There's something not normal. You know, I

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wouldn't say normal, there's something that you're passing out. You're

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going over a threshold where you know, you're basically entering

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a place that has this entity there. Something is there

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and you could feel it and sense it. So as

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soon as you cross the gate, that's that's the first

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thing you feel. And as you get more and more

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in there and you start walking around and looking at

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the places and being shown different areas, you start seeing this.

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You know, there is something very strange. And I was

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looking over your shoulder, like, what the heck's going on

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over there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually I don't know. If I don't know,

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we we'll see. But if Brandon ever invites me there,

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I would really have to kind of, you know, really

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kind of think about whether that's I would feel safe

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going there. But this twenty seventeen injury that kind of

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started all of this without like breaking confidentiality, of course,

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sure what exactly was this injury?

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Speaker 2: So it was reported back to the medical doctor that

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this person suffered some type of lesion in the back

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of the head, some injury that they felt that was

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not caused by some natural thing like there was no

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trauma involved or anything like that. And the medical doctor

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actually came to the conclusion that whatever it was was happening,

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something had entered his body to do this, to make

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this injury happen. So we went there and we looked

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around with for possibilities, wrote a report. This is all

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funded by a Halputos pod, So this has nothing to

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do with Brandon. This is all to do with how

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Putov funded the whole investigation. Wrote the report for our

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the sponsor, and you know, the conclusion was that there

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was some type of locromagnetic energy that was present on

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the property during the time that the person might have

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been there, But later found out that the person was

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actually not on the property when that when he had

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gotten hurt, he was, you know, off traveling someplace el

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So you know, that was the kind of a not

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so much so letdown, but it was more of a okay,

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that's a data point, you know, that's that's interesting. But

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that was the impetus to say, okay, well this is

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a neat little area. You know, Skinwalker is a great

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great I used to call it, you know, one of

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the one of the best scientific laboratories because it's very

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contained and a lot of things happened. But come to

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find out that the entire YU went to base and

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it is just chocked full of the exact same type

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of things. So even though it doesn't really happen too

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often on Skinwalker, it happens a lot out in the

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You went to basins, So that's when I kind of

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turned out and said, look, you know, let's look around

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and see what else is going on here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly seems that that the whatever's happening there

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is quite quite extensive off the ranch with the people

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that I've spoken with as well. So did you actually

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ever like stay on the ranch, did you sleep there

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or were you stay at the hotel not hanging out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, Yeah, we were Invernal, which is probably

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twenty thirty miles away. You know, I knew people that

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slept there, and you know, they always reported some weird

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things going on, and there was some instrumentation that was

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placed there that actually showed that there was some weird

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things happening during the evening when they say things were happening.

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So you know, it was very apparent that there was

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some phenomena on the property that was causing people to

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have these very profound experiences.

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Speaker 3: Now on the TV show, which again I freaking it's

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the only reality show.

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Speaker 1: That I watch.

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Speaker 2: Actually I was only on first season, so.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, So.

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Speaker 3: They talk about this or doctor Travis Taylor talks about

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this one point six gigahertz signal being detected repeatedly.

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Speaker 1: Did you observe that signal.

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Speaker 3: During your time and can you explain, you know, or

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have any hypotheses as far as what this one point

283
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six gigahertz energy seems to be.

284
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Speaker 2: So I did not there in that time. It was

285
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really discovered I think, well like a couple of years

286
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later and on that property. So but we I did

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sense that type of frequency in other areas of EU

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at debase, and so it's it is it is in

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the way. So you have to realize that underneath that

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whole area, it's just full of caverns and electromagnetic energy. Yeah,

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electromagnetic energy low. Some might some are filled with water,

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some are empty, But there's a lot of caverns under

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the whole thing. So even though it's like all this

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desert and mountainous area underneath is like this, This whole

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ecosystem has got like tons of things under there, and

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electromagnetic energy, no matter where it emanates from, will travel

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down there, down those caverns and end up places that

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you would never think of. So it's probably what my

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speculator is. And we found this, you know, when I

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was on Black Bog Ranch. In fact, I spend a

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lot of time on blink Frog Ranch. We measured that

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particular frequency, not so much in that band, but we

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measured things close to that band, And I just speculate

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that there's a lot of oil drilling going on and

305
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they communicate in that frequency range, and there's a lot

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of other things going on, you know, in that area

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that might just attribute to that frequency and it travels long,

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long distances, and.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that frequency is used in oil drilling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they communicate with the heads and you know,

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you know, they put these these drill heads out and

312
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they go cruising through the surface and they're go horizontal

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and they're communicating with it. So those communications are you know,

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high energy microwaves that are you know, try through the earth.

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And one thing that people don't realize that when you

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take a lectromagnetic beam and you send it through the Earth,

317
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it will actually change frequency as it goes through different materials.

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So what started off is maybe two two gigahertz might

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after it went through some material end up to be

320
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one point six. So it fools you sometimes because what

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they call they call these things wave guides, and wave

322
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guides are something that people use all the time. And

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then but you can do frequency changes. You can see

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that these harmonics, like I'm sure you've seen. It's like

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when when somebody strums like a guitar, you hear you

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don't hear a perfect signal. You hear a signal plus

327
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a little bit of side band, so it sounds kind

328
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of fuzzy. And those are those are harmonics. And then

329
00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:46,960
so when you get these oil drills that are that

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are paying and they're doing all sorts of stuff, we

331
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might be hearing harmonics that are not the true signal,

332
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,240
but something that's related to that signal. So I'm not

333
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,360
saying that it's not Yeah, it's very possible that it's

334
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some other thing, but when they get consistent and they

335
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,119
repeatable things, then you have to question whether or not

336
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this is something that may not be natural, but it's

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00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:11,599
something that might be human generated.

338
00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 3: Now on the in the book skin Walker's at the Pentagon,

339
00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:19,279
the os App report documented things like a camera is

340
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,039
having their wires physically ripped out. As I understand it,

341
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,920
like other cameras that were maybe aimed at the camera

342
00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:29,160
that had it so wires ripped out, didn't record anything.

343
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,119
Did you experience any kind of equipment sabotage you can't

344
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,759
talk this morning sabotage or anything that just completely was bizarre.

345
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely So. It was like actually during the

346
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,119
filming because I was you know, during the first season,

347
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,440
they had a lot of cameras, there, a lot of electronics,

348
00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:51,599
and constantly batteries were being drained and this wone work.

349
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,480
Drones won't fly, and it's like it's kind of funny

350
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,599
because you're out in the middle of nowhere, literally in

351
00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:00,359
the middle of nowhere, so there's no big industrial thing.

352
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,160
It's you know, basically you can see oil wells, you know,

353
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,640
being all over you know, and on the horizon, but

354
00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:08,480
right there there's nothing said what the heck is causing

355
00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:11,880
all this crazy things to happen. So when you know,

356
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,319
people say, is there's some strange phenomena there that I

357
00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:19,240
don't know, it's it's basically, it's it's interfacing with the

358
00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:21,319
equipment and making the equipment not functional.

359
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 3: And what's crazy too, is like I think it's like

360
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:27,960
one thing if there's some kind of electronic jamming, but

361
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,599
for like things to be physically disconnected, I mean.

362
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,759
Speaker 2: That's that's strange. Yeah, I've never seen I haven't seen

363
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:39,640
things like that, but I've seen electronic which heavily relies

364
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,400
on lecromagnetic and and a lot of gamma particles. So

365
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:45,480
you get when when things are going on and you

366
00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:48,079
get a lot of high energy things in the environment,

367
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,400
you get a lot of gamma ray showers, you know,

368
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,279
doing things just decaying, and you get these crazy particles

369
00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:56,759
that come out, and then that gets into the electronics,

370
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and electronics of course it's gonna you know, they're gonna reset,

371
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,200
they're gonna batteries are going to drain, they're going to

372
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,920
do all sorts of crazy things. So we measured quite

373
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,279
a bit of a gamma rate in our high energy particles,

374
00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:11,000
well above the microwave range out in that area and

375
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:13,000
all over the all over the basin.

376
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Speaker 3: One of the things that I've noticed on the show,

377
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:17,079
at least as far as how they tell the story,

378
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,240
is like right before, right when the test is to begin,

379
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,000
like they set all the equipment up.

380
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure they test and whatnot.

381
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Speaker 3: Then when they go to actually run the test, it's

382
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,799
as if the phenomenon knows and it actively starts interfering

383
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,720
with the equipment at that moment in time. Did you

384
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:40,200
see any kind of correlation with that, like like you

385
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,279
almost felt like the phenomenon was you know.

386
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,519
Speaker 1: Like you guys were actively being watched.

387
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you get that, like I said, you get

388
00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:51,240
that feeling that you're when you're in that in that environment,

389
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,400
that there is something on the outside that's intervening into

390
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,039
what you're doing. And you know so, and Bigelow was so.

391
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,400
And that's one of the reasons Bige sold his properties

392
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,720
because he just got so frustrated with it that he

393
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:06,160
would set up an experiment, spend you know, lots of

394
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,440
time and personnel and getting things set up, and then

395
00:20:09,519 --> 00:20:12,240
when he would run the experiment, nothing would happen there.

396
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,240
But you know, one hundred yards over here where nobody's looking,

397
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,519
some crazy thing would happen. You know, one of the

398
00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:20,680
pieces of equipment would break down or or you know,

399
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,440
one of his big caterpillars would would stop working or

400
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,319
something like that. So and that's fairly typical, and that

401
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,119
happens a lot. I mean, so a lot of equipment happened,

402
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,240
a lot of equipment problems. So we have people in

403
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:35,680
our in our study throughout the unit to base and

404
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,400
that constantly complained that they're always changing the every you know,

405
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,960
every year they have to change their TV out, every year,

406
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,359
they have to get a new washer dryer. So it's like,

407
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,759
for some reason, whatever is going on here, and we're

408
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:49,839
you know, we're hoping to measure a lot of these

409
00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:52,000
things that we have measured it that we can get

410
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,200
to the bottom of what is causing these these things

411
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,119
that affect people, and it affects physically equipment and dogs

412
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920
go barking and and things. You know, things are physically

413
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,960
changing in your tests.

414
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 3: When when you were there, did like what what kind

415
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,480
of sort of anomalies would you see in terms of

416
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,279
and again I'm not like a scientist, I you know,

417
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:14,880
barely barely.

418
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: Barely graduated college.

419
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,039
Speaker 3: Uh, but in terms of like data points that would

420
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:23,720
be completely off the sort of baseline. Would you see

421
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,480
things like r F energy spike or whatnot during these

422
00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:31,200
experience experiments? Or what were the sort of things signal

423
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,759
wise that you would record that seemed to indicate that

424
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:37,880
there was some kind of sort of active interference going on.

425
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,839
Speaker 2: So one of the interesting things that happens in that area,

426
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,960
especially you know in the higher arnument to base and

427
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:48,440
up and more towards the canyon, we were experiencing a

428
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,039
lot of gyroscopic So if you look at the actual

429
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:55,279
you know what we what we live in, our our

430
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,119
you know space time. You know, there's a lot of

431
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,880
energy that's holding us together. But it when you have

432
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,400
something high energy that enters it, it has a tendency

433
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,400
to shake a little bit and wiggle and turn a

434
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,640
little bit. So there's a sensor called a gyroscope. A gyroscope,

435
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,519
you know, a gyroscope that basically measures how much this

436
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:18,799
metric is twisting that seems to be the one that

437
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,680
gets pinned a lot and it creates an anomaly, and

438
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,480
it's also one of the things that you can't fake.

439
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:28,319
There's no way on earth that you're going to change

440
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:31,319
You're going to go and wiggle this thing without changing

441
00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:34,319
anything else. So that was one of the indications that

442
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,559
we started to see a lot of gyroscopic motion, meaning

443
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:40,920
that something entered the atmosphere or something entered the environment

444
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,960
that was very energetic and actually turned a little bit

445
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:47,240
and it's a very slight thing. It's like, you know,

446
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,200
microns of twisting that caused this sensor to have these

447
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,880
anomalous blips. And I can actually show you a few

448
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,480
of these that are pretty profound sometimes. But then you

449
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,599
know the typical gamma so you get these gamma ray

450
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:06,640
showers that come in unexplained and you basically we measure

451
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,680
those during times when people say that they've had some

452
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,200
very strange experience, like they would have this, you know,

453
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,519
the point where they kind of lose a little conscious

454
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:17,599
of they go, you know, slight catatonia just for a second,

455
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:19,680
and then when you look at the DATI, you say,

456
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,880
wait a minute, exactly when you told me that, you know,

457
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,000
I saw this big gamma ray spike, so that's probably

458
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,559
what your brain was doing, was trying to contend with

459
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:30,000
the energy coming in there.

460
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Speaker 3: Before we get back to our interview, real quick, if

461
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,880
you're not subscribed, hit that button, ring the bell, leave

462
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,559
a comment, give us a thumbs up. I know it

463
00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:43,240
sounds like a lot, but here's why it matters. YouTube

464
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,519
sees all of that and basically says to itself, Hey,

465
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,039
maybe we should recommend this Good Trouble Show to people

466
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:51,279
who don't know that.

467
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,319
Speaker 1: It actually exists yet. That's how this works.

468
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 3: Also, find us on all the major podcast platforms if

469
00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,559
you would like to.

470
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: Listen to us on the go.

471
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,759
Speaker 3: And the last thing, I promise we have no sponsors

472
00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:06,119
on this show, like zero.

473
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: We are kept alive entirely by people like you.

474
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 3: So if you want to help pay the studio rent,

475
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:16,400
we are on Patreon at www dot patreon dot com.

476
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,480
Forward slash the Good Trouble Show, And of course you

477
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,480
can always support us right here on YouTube through memberships

478
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,359
or super things. Means the world to us. So let's

479
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,400
get back to the interview with doctor Jim Sigala. So

480
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:31,920
what is your personal theory, Like, do you think that

481
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,920
there's something physical buried under Skinwalker Ranch, Like based on

482
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,599
maybe your sensor data or your your anything that you saw,

483
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,119
what is your personal opinion as far as what may

484
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,960
be going on there, Like, do you think there's a

485
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:51,519
craft buried under Skinwalker Ranch, under the mesa underground command

486
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:55,200
post that maybe has US personnel in it, any any

487
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:55,960
kind of theories.

488
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: Well, the big theory that I've always established is that

489
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,559
there is an energy on the property and you know,

490
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,720
again all over the place, and it interacts with not

491
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,079
the property, interacts with the people on the property. So

492
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,359
you can leave that that and it's happened, and you know,

493
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,960
basically that property gets left for eleven months and then

494
00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:23,160
you know, everybody descends on it to make a show

495
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,519
for one month or two months oft of the year.

496
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,400
During the off time, very little happens. There's nothing that's

497
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,400
going on. It's when you introduce people into the property.

498
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,400
It's when you start seeing all the crazy things going

499
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,680
on in there, and the scientifically relevant type of phenomena

500
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:42,599
that you can actually draw conclusions off of happen when

501
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,200
there's somebody on the property, and the better the person

502
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,559
is at actually experiencing these things and they're attuned to it,

503
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:53,160
and it's, you know, something Gary Nolan has worked a

504
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,920
lot on the bigger the anomalies are, or they're more

505
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
profound the anomalies are. So one of the conclusions, it's

506
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,759
not a concludion you can ever really conclude anything, is

507
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:05,960
that you have to intermix the people into it. And

508
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,240
I think that's what this phenomenon is, interacting with the people.

509
00:26:09,839 --> 00:26:13,720
The property is a conduit or a place that has

510
00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:17,759
a higher energy value or a lower energy value, depending on,

511
00:26:17,839 --> 00:26:20,400
you know what, the type of energy you're looking at.

512
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,599
But for the most part, when you introduce people, that's

513
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,920
when the stuff happened.

514
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 3: So in a way, it's like the people kind of

515
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,400
act really sort of as antennas, and certain people, certain

516
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,440
people's antennas, seem to be more attuned to picking up

517
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,559
whatever this stuff is.

518
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you think about it, this phenomena, why would

519
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:41,799
the phenomena want to go to a place where there's nothing,

520
00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:44,279
you know, sentient objects are I think one of the

521
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:49,000
more interesting things to investigate. If they were interacting with

522
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,119
something and there's nothing on the property, that kind of

523
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,640
sounds a little boring to you know, to do. We

524
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,200
wouldn't do that we wouldn't go in the middle of

525
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,920
desert and set up to look at a barren place.

526
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:03,559
You would wait to have some trees or whatever. So

527
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,839
youet to think that they are basically interacting with us,

528
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,759
and that we are the ones that are actually the

529
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,640
reason that this phenomenon has gained some insight into what

530
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,680
we're doing and what's going on the property.

531
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 3: Speaking as someone that's worked on reality TV, I'm again

532
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:21,960
not a big fan of it, but I know in

533
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:23,920
some of the reality shows that I've worked on in

534
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,039
my professional career in television, a lot of what you

535
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,599
end up seeing in the end, as far as what

536
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,839
the audience sees, is really kind of pretty heavily produced.

537
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,599
Did any of that sort of thing happen on that

538
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,519
particular show or what you saw on camera was pretty

539
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:46,759
much what you would regularly what you would see if

540
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:47,680
you weren't on camera.

541
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,319
Speaker 2: Well, that's a really good question, and I don't want

542
00:27:50,319 --> 00:27:53,759
to step on their toes or you know anyway, But

543
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:58,079
one of the reasons that I left was because it

544
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,359
was a lot of drama. It was a lot of sure,

545
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:02,839
you know, you know, that's what if you think it

546
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,920
is a reality show, and that's what they want, So

547
00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:09,079
it was it was very difficult to do the science

548
00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:11,240
stuff there. That we would do an experiment and then

549
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,079
that was it. You know, they would just basically say, well,

550
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,759
we just wanted to film the experiment and then we

551
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:17,720
don't really want to do anything with it. So it

552
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:19,880
kind of got a little disheartening. That's why I said,

553
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,680
you know, that's not a really cool place to do it.

554
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,279
And that's why I said, I want to go look

555
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:27,599
to other places. So you know, TV's TV, Yeah, Hollywood, Hollywood,

556
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,160
So they're gonna they're gonna make it entertainable for that thing.

557
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,640
One of the things I don't you know, I don't know.

558
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,480
If I was on a show Blink Frog Ranch, that's

559
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,160
a different that's a different venue. That is more of

560
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,920
a discovery show where they're actually looking for something and

561
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,880
it's more scientific, and they don't do those kind of things.

562
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,799
They don't care about drama. They really care about discovery

563
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,720
and they care about things like that. So that's a

564
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:52,480
little different.

565
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: Gotcha.

566
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,559
Speaker 3: Okay, So so you leave after season one, what happens

567
00:28:57,559 --> 00:28:57,960
after that?

568
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,799
Speaker 1: What's what's the sort of next thing you move on to.

569
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: Well, so that was interesting. So when I did leave

570
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,400
all the people that I interfaced with in you at

571
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,319
the base and contacted me. It said, you know, we

572
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,720
need your expertise to help us, because they were actually

573
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:14,599
involved in some of the work that I was doing

574
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:18,160
during that time. You know, we were interfacing with these

575
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,799
people talking to them, and I got reached out by literally,

576
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,079
you know, like fifty people and said, you know, where

577
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:27,359
the held you go, you have to help us. We

578
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,880
started to feel a little better about all the crazy

579
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,119
things happening in our life since you were there helping

580
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,599
us trying to understand it. So that's when I kicked

581
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,839
off the first study through you know, funding from how

582
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:40,960
where we said, okay, you're going to you're going to

583
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,079
you know, log all these things. You're going to have

584
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:46,519
an instrument that that kind of looks at your environment

585
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,000
and records, and we're going to try to understand what's

586
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,880
going on when it goes on, what you're feeling, how

587
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,960
does it go away, how does it come in. So

588
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,240
that was the first study that we kicked off back

589
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:57,799
you know, back in twenty nineteen.

590
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,519
Speaker 1: And this is the moopas system.

591
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,319
Speaker 2: Correct, this was the first incarnation. It wasn't called that

592
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,160
at that time, but this is the first incarnation of

593
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,799
that whole study funded by how and basically the idea

594
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:13,240
is to understand what the what are these people experiencing

595
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,799
and why are they having these profound experiences. Most of

596
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:19,480
the people that were contacted, that contacted us had medical

597
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:21,960
evidence that something happened to them. You know, they would

598
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,440
have some lesions, they would have, you know, something some

599
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,160
subcutaneous objects in their in their bodies that they had

600
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,279
medical reports that showed it. Or they would have things

601
00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:35,359
that were very strange in their brain, you know, some

602
00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:39,359
traumatic brain brain injury that they couldn't explain. It wasn't

603
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,880
trauma based, but it was sure enough. There. We're going

604
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,799
to talk about some other stuff, like the Havana syndrome,

605
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,480
stuff that is very very similar to the things that

606
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:50,480
were going on in the Basin at that time, which

607
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:53,480
was a you know, a big question markets and what

608
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:56,079
the heck's going on here if people in Havana are

609
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:57,559
having similar things going on.

610
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: So, and before we kind of dig into some of

611
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,599
your presentations, which you have some amazing stuff there, just

612
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:07,559
in kind of a general overall sense, what are these

613
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:13,480
detectors listening for recording? Is it radiation, magnetic fields, heat,

614
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,759
you know, what are what would be some of the

615
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:18,559
things that you would want to collect on.

616
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,079
Speaker 2: Well, there's two sides of that. One is we want

617
00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:23,440
to know what are the things that are in the

618
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:28,039
environment that change when something energetic comes in and then

619
00:31:28,119 --> 00:31:30,079
what are the thin Then second question and what are

620
00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:32,000
the things in the environment. What are the values in

621
00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:35,799
the environment that could affect our physiology and make us

622
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:39,960
have these profound experiences like go into a catatonic shock

623
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:42,759
or have an experience or see a craft or something

624
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,440
like that. So you get you know, the cast of

625
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,759
characters would then be, you know, gamma rayse looks a

626
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,599
magnetic energy, your im you your acceleration vech, your magnetic vector,

627
00:31:54,079 --> 00:31:58,680
gravity vector, your gyroscoptic vector. In ProSound is a big

628
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,240
eie so when when big things come in your area,

629
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:03,319
you get these infra sounds that travel over the earth

630
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,039
of any kind of indicators like that. Initially we didn't

631
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:10,920
do any biometrics, but now we're getting into the biometrics

632
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,200
where we're actually looking at tremors and heart rate and

633
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:18,160
blood pressures and watching that spike while people are having

634
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,559
these experiences. But that's that's the first thing.

635
00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:23,599
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, right, no, no, please don't catch off.

636
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: Well, that was the first you know, the first thing

637
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,559
we did is that looked and we said, well, let's

638
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,519
let's figure out what we want to do. Put it

639
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:31,720
all in there, figure out which are very important ones.

640
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,799
So that's what we kind of did.

641
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: And as I understand that during that first phase of

642
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,200
the study, participants didn't know what you were measuring, and

643
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,519
you didn't know what they experienced until you sort of

644
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:45,720
correlated the data later.

645
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,079
Speaker 1: Is that doing right?

646
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: So they they never well, some of like one or

647
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,559
two of them did, but most of them. There was

648
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:55,599
thirty six participants that came in and out, and we

649
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,880
didn't really have thirty six. We had more than that,

650
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,359
but we like some of them weren't very good, and

651
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,039
then we swapped them out. We had maybe fifty. Anyway,

652
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,599
those people wouldn't really see their data. What they would

653
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:11,119
do is that every day they would go and they

654
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,200
would journal, they would put in their narratives like you

655
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,920
know today I had this at four o'clock. You know,

656
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,599
I felt like, you know, somebody was watching me, blah

657
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:18,640
blah blah. And then what we would do is then

658
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,920
take that data because we were getting all the data

659
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,920
real time and then we would store it up in

660
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,400
the cloud and then we would take their narratives and

661
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,200
then we would match it with what was ever going

662
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,599
on in their environment, so like if they had to

663
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,720
watch or something like that, or they had a device,

664
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,480
and then we would see correlations. And we had some

665
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,960
rules that that we didn't really have any good We

666
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,480
wouldn't accept a data point unlessen you know, fill into

667
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:45,920
some metric, and so we had some rules established on

668
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,680
what constitutes a really good data point. Then we would

669
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,240
then filter all the other ones out. And it turned

670
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,799
out that over the three years that we ran the

671
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:59,039
study with thirty six people, we only got out of

672
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,519
the thousands than thousands of possible points, we only kept

673
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:05,319
three hundred of them. Okay, so which is not a lot.

674
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400
I mean, that's that's pretty small percentage. But those were

675
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,199
good points that we collected. So they wouldn't know that.

676
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,400
But we would then go back after the fact, like

677
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,000
maybe a few days later or some even a week later,

678
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,159
and we would tell them, during this time, you had

679
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,559
this experience and you had this so this is this

680
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,320
is a methodology. That's it's a reinforcement thing to keep

681
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,639
people interested in but not skew them. That important thing

682
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,519
was never to skew their data or put their personal

683
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:36,920
knowledge into the experiment, which would be you know, of

684
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,239
course you want to do double blogs and things like that.

685
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,679
Speaker 3: And was this device using kind of like commercial off

686
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,719
the shelf technology or or was it sort of purpose

687
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,000
built for these sort of observations.

688
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: Well, it was just constructed of these little sensors that

689
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,679
you can buy. They call mems sensors. They're very very

690
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,679
tiny little sensors that basically are these micro micro mechanical devices.

691
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,480
Within these are integrated chips that you that are like

692
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:06,719
the gyroscopic and all those little sensors, their tiny little

693
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,360
little devices, and then we packaged all that into one

694
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,039
little thing that people could put on their on their

695
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,519
table or you know, even in the watch. And so

696
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:18,920
it was off the shelf, but we packaged it and

697
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,239
made it nice and clean for people to put in

698
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:21,880
their environment.

699
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 3: At the end of the study, were you able to

700
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:30,480
correlate certain signals with a particular experience, Like if somebody

701
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:33,280
claimed they were abducted, that they would have a certain

702
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:37,039
set of signals that would be outliers, versus if they

703
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,280
somebody said they saw an orb Was there any sort

704
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,719
of pattern that you could sort of determine based on

705
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,760
what the person was experiencing.

706
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in fact, I could show you the actual

707
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,039
report if that keeps online, and I can show you

708
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:57,320
where it is. But we established that we were able

709
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,280
to We came to a statistical success of four point

710
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,679
five sigma, which means that if somebody else report, So

711
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,039
if somebody else did the experiment with completely different people

712
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:12,880
different they would come up within you zero point four

713
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,320
to five sigma of what we came up with. And

714
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,320
we were able to predict the remember the three hundred

715
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,199
that I talked about, those those data points, We were

716
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,320
able to predict those data points within some statistical accuracy.

717
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,039
And like I said, that was just a major accomplishment

718
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:32,480
to be able to get. Now, it's not great. Four

719
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,199
point five is not great. We were really wanted five.

720
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,559
Five is like the golden statistical mean, but we did.

721
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,519
We only had thirty six people. So now what we're

722
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,719
doing is we're increased that up to ten thousand people

723
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:48,039
and now we hope to push it well past the

724
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:51,320
five sigma. So five sigma is like the accepted scientific

725
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,320
standard that when you publish with a five sigma result,

726
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,280
you get passed through the review process.

727
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,519
Speaker 3: Now time of the study, which is currently what's going on.

728
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,199
How that came about? I think that story is pretty interesting.

729
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:05,920
Tell us about that.

730
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: So it was, yeah, actually it was kind of interesting.

731
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,119
So I I after three years, I sent an email

732
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:16,760
to everybody and said, you know, guy, this is great.

733
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,079
I have all this information, I wrote my report everything,

734
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,119
you know, I got this result. Thank you so much.

735
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,719
And it went away. So and I said, you know,

736
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,400
you can keep the equipment, you can do whatever you want.

737
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,400
I don't, you know, never want it back. And then

738
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,119
I started getting phone calls from people. This is you

739
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:34,360
know this, this this stuff changed my life. I now

740
00:37:34,559 --> 00:37:38,599
can deal with what's going on in my life because

741
00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:42,239
I had this. I had this bility to give my

742
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,440
narratives and in journal and have this device and see

743
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,760
these things and know somebody was watching over me that

744
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,119
you know, crazy things weren't going to happen. So these

745
00:37:51,159 --> 00:37:53,679
start people started to ask me, said what the hell

746
00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:57,079
you're doing? You can't just stop. So after a while

747
00:37:57,119 --> 00:37:59,840
and then there was a group of people in there,

748
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,000
a group of people that represented a bunch of experiencers

749
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,199
that contacted me and said, you know what can we

750
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,760
do to help you become a you know, to kick

751
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,320
off the next phase of your study. So you know,

752
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,400
I'm not going to say that I was brought into

753
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,440
this kicking and screaming, but I was like the I

754
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,519
thought we ended it. I thought he wrote a report,

755
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:23,760
and I submitted the report. But then you know, they said,

756
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,159
we want we want you to continue this thing. And

757
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:28,679
one of the people that were in the original study

758
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,599
came to me and said, look, if you do kick

759
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:34,199
off another study, we want to fund it. So they said,

760
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,480
we're going to pay for whatever devices that people would

761
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:40,840
need to join your study. So now the phase two,

762
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,159
I said, okay, So we kicked off phase two. We

763
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,920
redesigned everything to make it a little bit more easy

764
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,880
for people to use, and have made it much cheaper,

765
00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:54,159
got somebody to fund it, to actually pay for the

766
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:58,440
devices when people want to, you know, take them. And

767
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,320
so now we've got the queer. I have to ask

768
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:04,960
my wife, who soon handled all that. I think we're approaching.

769
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,039
We're approaching the five hundred or the four hundred mark,

770
00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:10,639
I think so, which is a lot more than thirty

771
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:13,679
and being they're all over the world, and that was

772
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,280
another issue that we had with the first study is

773
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,960
that was concentrated in that you went to basin area,

774
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:23,159
But we did have stuff around the United States, but

775
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:25,920
nothing outside of the United States. Now we're all over

776
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,320
the place. They were in Australia, there's there was going

777
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,199
to Puerto Rico. They're all over the place.

778
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:33,079
Speaker 1: I'm curious.

779
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 3: During that first study, so you said like the majority

780
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,559
of the censors were in the Unitah basin.

781
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: Am I saying that right? Unita?

782
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's you went you went to Okay, Yeah.

783
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:50,039
Speaker 3: Anyway, did you find that people that were not in

784
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,440
the you went to basin they had like maybe the

785
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,239
same sort of intensity of signal or or during the

786
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,880
same sort of like a person that saw a ORB

787
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:06,199
in Los Angeles, did they have sort of the same

788
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,159
sort of signatures as someone that saw it in the

789
00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:14,599
Unitah basin? Or was unitad tended to have like higher

790
00:40:14,639 --> 00:40:17,400
numbers if I'm sort of describing that correctly.

791
00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:21,199
Speaker 2: So it is more frequent, I would say more frequent

792
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,559
there the intensity, I would say no, because one of

793
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:27,519
the metrics that we went through or we had, is

794
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,920
that they had to have a certain level of So

795
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,039
we send everything through an ai l M, which basically

796
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,920
gives us the intensity of what they're narrating to us, right,

797
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:41,239
they'll put like a paragraph to describe what it is,

798
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,639
and then we put it through this AI model, which says,

799
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,360
you know, this person had an intensity of you know,

800
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,559
one through or one through ten, and they would give

801
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:52,079
like an eight. And so they all seemed to have

802
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:54,800
and we had a threshold that had to be above

803
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,239
like a I think it was four in order to

804
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,960
even qualify as a point. But most of the people

805
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:04,119
that put these narratives in all had these intensities well

806
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:06,280
into the high you know, eights and things like that.

807
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,280
So when they say that they had an experiment experience

808
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:12,559
and they felt like they went out their body or

809
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:14,760
they saw something they saw in orbit, saw a crap,

810
00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:18,800
they all had the same intensity. And then the signals

811
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,920
were basically the same as well, So the instrumentation would

812
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,039
pick up these signals. They were all basically the pinnacle

813
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:28,559
of it or the height of it were usually the same.

814
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:30,239
So it would get up to twenty two K or

815
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,239
get up to twenty three K, and that might just

816
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,360
be a function of the equipment that's measuring. But what

817
00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:38,920
you find is that you went to basin it was

818
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:41,679
more regular they instead of doing it all, instead of

819
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,280
having an event like once every month or once every

820
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,199
two months, and some of the people you went to

821
00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:48,559
basin would have one like every two weeks or things

822
00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:52,360
like that. So it's just more more regular.

823
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about phase two. You mentioned you

824
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,199
have new equipment and whatnot.

825
00:41:57,519 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: Can you show us some of that and maybe sort

826
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,960
of a yeah, how the signals and everything work?

827
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: All right, So this is the portal that the participants

828
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:10,920
would view and most of it is the historical data.

829
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,639
So you can see I've got three different devices up here,

830
00:42:14,039 --> 00:42:16,360
one at blink Frog Ranch, which is just a device

831
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,039
that's sitting out there in blind Frog Ranch. There's one

832
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:23,360
Hestelin Valley right now. You know, they're deep into their day.

833
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,159
I don't even know it's late. Oh it's in the morning.

834
00:42:26,159 --> 00:42:30,320
Actually that's interesting. And then there's another test device here.

835
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,639
But basically what you see here is what the data

836
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,559
is from these devices that are out in the all

837
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:40,920
over the world, and it's collecting continually collecting data. And

838
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,719
you can see that. You know, as as I go

839
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,800
through my day, these these waveforms change and I can

840
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,840
go through and select all sorts of different things like

841
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,440
I can for my device, I could this is the

842
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,960
Geiger counter that's looking at radiation of gamma rays. This

843
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:04,880
is this is the so this is the magnometer. So

844
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:07,159
this is something that if you look at this, this

845
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,800
is the magnetic field that's around you, and this is

846
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,760
the gyroscopic Now right now, there's really nothing going on.

847
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,239
But you know, if I maybe switched to say, okay,

848
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,719
how's it going for the entire day, you know, this

849
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,599
is the look for the This is the look for

850
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:24,320
the entire day that we're going through. So we'll put

851
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,599
it back to our and then so basically this is

852
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:32,199
what the system is gathering continuously throughout the day. So

853
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,840
for this device, or say a blind Frog ranch will

854
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,920
look at blind Frog Ranch's data and basically what you

855
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:43,440
get here is just like these waveforms that come through. Now,

856
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,159
this is not a very big spike right here. That's

857
00:43:46,199 --> 00:43:50,039
only eleven k. Usually when you have a nominalous events,

858
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:53,000
they're probably up into the twenty two thirty two, you

859
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:55,760
know something, and like you'll see a major device of

860
00:43:56,199 --> 00:43:58,440
but then you might see also a gamma spike of

861
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:00,440
So if you look over here and this is the

862
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:03,559
gamma one of the Gama sensors in the next direction

863
00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:06,599
that's you know, going horizontal and maybe there's a you know,

864
00:44:06,639 --> 00:44:08,920
a big spike there. If we get a big spike

865
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,639
at the same time that we have a spike in

866
00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:14,320
one of the other fields, that's when we consider it

867
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,280
to be a something of very significance and something that

868
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,280
we want to look at. And then of course we

869
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,559
can switch over to some real time stuff and look

870
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:25,280
at it in real time, and then we can see,

871
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,639
you know, what's going on with we can see what's

872
00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:32,800
going on with the data in real time amazing.

873
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 3: And is and clearly there's there's and this stuff is

874
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,239
like it's it's recording twenty four to seven, right.

875
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's streaming back to the cloud. So we

876
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:46,719
use the AZOR, which is Microsoft's cloud, which is all

877
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:51,000
hip A compliant and basically you know, you can't break

878
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,920
into it, so whatever data gets up there is safe.

879
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,960
So a lot of our all of our participants are

880
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:59,880
very worried about you know, their personal data things all

881
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,880
lo like that, so we make sure that everything that

882
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,679
they do is all protected from you know, anybody intrusion

883
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,920
or something like that. And so what we also have,

884
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:12,199
so these are three devices that I'm looking at one

885
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,320
the Hasselton Valley black Frog Ranch, and then a test device.

886
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,320
But we also have a lot of other devices available

887
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,840
for people. So we've got these public devices all throughout

888
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,840
the world. Basically that when you become a when you

889
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,360
become a member of the study, you get to monitor.

890
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,840
And so we got restland forests, We've got this is

891
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,079
a person down in Chile that has a really really

892
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:39,000
amazing things going on. We've got Carla Crusher, which is somebody.

893
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,440
Oh that's the person, you know, Yeah, that's one of

894
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,960
his his his device that he's made public. Very nice

895
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,639
of him. And then we have a bunch of other ones.

896
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:53,039
Thunderstrike Branch was another ranch in uh and you you

897
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:55,559
went to base and that is very very crazy. And

898
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:57,480
then you know, so we have all these and then

899
00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,760
you have what's great is that you also have access

900
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,800
to your own personal devices. So I've got a bunch

901
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,360
of personal devices I can look at, and then I

902
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,280
have other data feeds, so I can look at ADSB,

903
00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:10,320
I can look at satellite trackers, you know, all within

904
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,800
this the confines of this system, you know, I can

905
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:16,920
monitor these things, and you know, I can look at imagery,

906
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,880
so This is imagery coming from the device. These are

907
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,199
spectrums coming from the device, and these are all things

908
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:27,000
that you know, you can look at. So but when

909
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,400
somebody interests is study a lot of this stuff, we

910
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:34,320
don't let them see for another three days. So although

911
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,840
it's it's you know current right now, I'm mine, So

912
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,840
this is my device and I get real time. Somebody

913
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,719
else would come in and not be able to see

914
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,960
this for three days because we want them to not

915
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,800
influence what's going on and say, oh, you know, look

916
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,719
at that. You know, I had an experience and stuff

917
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,280
like that. And then they would come over here into

918
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,280
this area and they would enter like you know, on

919
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:58,679
you know whatever data. I had a strange sensation that

920
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,679
somebody was watching me, and they can upload pictures, I

921
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,000
mean so and then like over here they say, I

922
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:06,519
woke up and there was you know, there was you know,

923
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:09,159
while I was walking outside, I felt lightheaded and then

924
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:11,920
I looked up. And so this is their journal system

925
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,039
that they can go and they can add you know,

926
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:17,719
whatever they want into the system and provide us with

927
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,000
some if you know, some narrative or this is their

928
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:24,679
journaling system that they're allowed to do. So this is

929
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,000
all super private. Nobody has access to this except for them,

930
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,079
and basically even we don't see it. I mean we

931
00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:34,320
don't we don't really look at this data. We have

932
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,159
our AI models look at them that pull out all

933
00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:40,079
the information that we're interested in seeing.

934
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was actually going to be my next question.

935
00:47:43,559 --> 00:47:45,960
I'm looking at this going wow, this is a ton

936
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,880
of a ton of data to process, and was curious,

937
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,400
how how you how you analyze that? I mean, that's

938
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,519
got to be just a bucketload of stuff every day.

939
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,159
Speaker 2: So at one o'clock in the morning, what happened is

940
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,639
that we have if something can't kicks off, a little

941
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:04,960
program or not a big program that kicks off that

942
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:08,800
takes all the data from all three hundred devices and

943
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,440
all the annotations that have been put in throughout the day.

944
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,599
They run it through a model and it looks to

945
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:19,920
see it looks for events that happen. This is just

946
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,159
a sample of this particular device. So like for instance,

947
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,480
there was a you know, there's you know, sudden spike

948
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:28,239
in humidity, and then there is you know, there is

949
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,360
there is things that are created by this this this

950
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,599
device doesn't have anything. This is a test device, so

951
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:37,119
it doesn't really have anything, but these devices get this

952
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,760
these events that happen that are then sent out as

953
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,400
an alert or notification to people, so they don't really

954
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:46,920
have to look at you know, they don't have to

955
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,360
look at this thing constantly. But we have these AI

956
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,719
bots that go in and look for these anomalies. They

957
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,760
try to find a point where like the incident reports

958
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,000
and a narratives match up with some anomalous event that

959
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:03,400
actually create these these notifications that we send out. So

960
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,719
people are basically are going to sit there and then

961
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,320
they can click on the notification and see what the

962
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,719
data looked like, you know, back you know, they don't

963
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,199
get the notification like if something happened right now to somebody,

964
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:15,880
you know, in a couple of days from now, they

965
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,079
would get a notification to say, you know, back two

966
00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:21,199
days ago, this is what happened. Here's the data that happened.

967
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,599
And then it lets them kind of understand what's going on,

968
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:28,239
and it gives them a sense of a powerful sense

969
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,840
of being able to control what's going on because they

970
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,280
can actually see it. Once you can measure something, you

971
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,039
basically get this feeling of control.

972
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: And so when when you left phase, when phase one

973
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,679
ended and you started hearing from these people. I was curious, like,

974
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,719
you know what about this made them sort of feel

975
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:50,880
feel better about what was going on. So essentially, as

976
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,400
I understand it, the fact that they're able to see

977
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,320
data and go okay, yeah, I didn't imagine that something

978
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,719
did obviously right.

979
00:49:58,599 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: If something did happen right, and that's and that's a

980
00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:04,440
that's a way of doing it. I forgot what the

981
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,719
exact name of it is, but that's a psychological thing

982
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,719
that that a lot of interviewers do to reinforce that

983
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,719
to make them really want to really want to be

984
00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:18,119
more explicit with their narratives and be more involved in

985
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:21,760
the system. So these are I'm going to switch screens

986
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,000
on you a little bit. So here is some of

987
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:28,920
the anomalies that happened over the past where you could

988
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,599
see like this is the gyroscope and it made a

989
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,440
very funny thing. But at the same time, somebody put

990
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,639
a narrative and sometimes they sign off and allow me

991
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,480
to actually put the narratives in Like lights flickered, bones glitched,

992
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,599
so something happened, and at the same time we had

993
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:49,880
this crazy reading in the gyroscopic sensor. This is one

994
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:54,360
where we had something happened letromagnetic the microwave radiation sensor.

995
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:56,920
Where we were going along, it looked like just random

996
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,400
noise and all of a sudden, crazy stuff happened. But

997
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:03,159
every time, this red box only occurs when we have

998
00:51:03,199 --> 00:51:06,079
a narrative associated with this data. So when we saw

999
00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:08,400
this data, well you know, I didn't physically see it.

1000
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,119
When the AI model saw this data, it said, oh

1001
00:51:11,119 --> 00:51:13,840
wait a minute, that's crazy. It looks up in the

1002
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,239
narratives and says, is the narrative enough to spark a

1003
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:22,360
data point? And is it within some timeframe of this

1004
00:51:22,639 --> 00:51:25,480
of this event happening. And then it kicks off, says okay,

1005
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,400
this is a valid point, and then it you know,

1006
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,440
it logs it, it sends out these alerts. I want

1007
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,519
to call them alerts notifications. So these are all events

1008
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:37,920
that happened. You know, we've got three hundred of these.

1009
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:39,840
These are the good ones, you know, the things that

1010
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,719
really happen. But you could see that there's a spike here,

1011
00:51:43,079 --> 00:51:45,800
and around this time somebody you know, made mention that

1012
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,400
something happened to them. There were some spikes here. My

1013
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,599
wife had a stabbing headache for two minutes. I see.

1014
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,239
So again these are narratives that we were allowed to

1015
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,519
put on here because people signed off and they said,

1016
00:51:57,559 --> 00:51:59,239
yeah you could, you can put these in. But most

1017
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,280
of this stuff is super personal, right like for instance,

1018
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,320
the person said that Orban was created and you know

1019
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,360
there was an orb here. A lot of things kind

1020
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,679
of happened during this time. So you know, this is

1021
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,280
this is sampling that I wanted to show everybody that

1022
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,039
you know, we do collect this crazy data. Look, you know,

1023
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:19,559
this is an enormous spike. You know, how do you

1024
00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:23,559
create that in nature without something anomalous happening. So this

1025
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,719
is the kind of thing that the system's looking for

1026
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,800
and trying to marrying it to what people are saying

1027
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,039
in their narratives. And then it kicks off that point

1028
00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:33,159
and says, okay, yeah, this is a legit point and

1029
00:52:33,199 --> 00:52:35,159
it could be used you know, in our in our

1030
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:39,719
scientific investigation. And then so that's one of them. And

1031
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,719
then we had another situation where we instrumented a property

1032
00:52:45,559 --> 00:52:48,000
in New Hampshire and there was a whole bunch of

1033
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:50,199
people that got involved in this project. So like Gary

1034
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,559
Nolan uh uh, Travis actually got involved with this, David

1035
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:58,800
Shraeber and we actually instrumented this person's property that was

1036
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,440
seeing almost every two or three weeks, they were seeing

1037
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:05,519
these crafts that fly around and you can see these crafts.

1038
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:08,960
They were taking pictures of them. And what we did

1039
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:12,000
is we instrumented it with one of our devices and

1040
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:15,360
we found out that it was this amazing situation that

1041
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,440
happened is that, you know, during one of these episodes

1042
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,039
where they saw something, they you know, they saw something

1043
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,960
with their camera. So camera took a picture of something

1044
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:29,840
on This is in twenty twenty four, okay. And during

1045
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,840
the time that that showed up, that ORB showed up,

1046
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,199
we were getting This is the data that came out

1047
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,119
of there. So this green line was the gamma and

1048
00:53:38,199 --> 00:53:41,480
during that time the gamma spike. Normally the gamma is

1049
00:53:41,519 --> 00:53:44,719
this bottom line here. It just stays there all the time,

1050
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,960
and then all of a sudden, when that ORB showed up,

1051
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,079
it went crazy. And then this is this purple line

1052
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:53,239
here is actually when the ORB was visible on the camera,

1053
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:56,719
but you could see it had this enormous spike. And

1054
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,880
this that's the green line. The blue line is the

1055
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,639
electromagnetic spectrum. Normally, the blue line sits between these two

1056
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,920
red dotted lines and it just sits there and just

1057
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,360
you know, this has wavy lines. But during the time

1058
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,960
when the ORB was present, it went way up and

1059
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,599
it just all this electromagnetic energy. And then this again

1060
00:54:17,639 --> 00:54:20,320
with the man. This is the magnometer, which is basically

1061
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:24,840
the magnetism in the area, like the gravity vector and

1062
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,719
things like that. During the time the ORB was present,

1063
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,039
this thing just spiked and it spiked in the gyroscope

1064
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:33,840
as well. So that was one of the things back

1065
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,920
on the twenty fourth in twenty twenty four. Since then,

1066
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,760
there's been quite a few other ones that have happened

1067
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:43,400
that are probably just as good or maybe even better

1068
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,159
than this. But this is one that we documented and

1069
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:48,960
I'm allowed to actually show this one. The other ones

1070
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:49,719
I'm not allowed to.

1071
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:55,039
Speaker 3: Show sure although, and were they seeing solid craft or

1072
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:57,639
just orbs, Well, that's the thing we don't know.

1073
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: They illuminated in a camp, so whether or not they

1074
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,920
were solid or not, it remains to be understood. But

1075
00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:11,199
we know that they they were emanating electromagnetic energy because

1076
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,480
we read it with a camera. So it was a

1077
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:17,039
dot on a camera and when it appeared, it gave

1078
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,039
off these signals. But it wasn't super bad. I mean,

1079
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:22,199
most people think UFO is going to come screaming by.

1080
00:55:22,199 --> 00:55:27,880
It was slow. It was going maybe you know, maybe

1081
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:30,400
one hundred miles an hours or a time, I mean

1082
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,239
like ten miles an hour. We just went past the property.

1083
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,360
But then again it was way out there, so we

1084
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,639
don't know how fast it was going actually because we

1085
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:41,559
didn't have a depth perception. But it went by the property.

1086
00:55:41,559 --> 00:55:43,840
It probably took about ten minutes to go past the

1087
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,440
entire property, so it was going pretty slow. Yeah, yeah,

1088
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:52,360
So and then of course we looked at ADSB. We said,

1089
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,639
is it an aircraft? Is it a satellite? We went

1090
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:57,719
through all of that stuff and then nothing was reported.

1091
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,280
But we did get these crazy signals when it went

1092
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,440
through when buy the property, but we were never able

1093
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,320
to understand what it physically was.

1094
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 3: Now, the spikes in gamma radiation, is that enough to

1095
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,960
negatively affect a human who would.

1096
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: Be in that area?

1097
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: You know, yes, because I've seen this happen. I've seen

1098
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:21,679
this happen before on devices to get to this level,

1099
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,280
to get up to this level, and that's when people, Now,

1100
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,840
this person didn't report anything, you know, may the whole

1101
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,039
family was inside. This was something that was all done

1102
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:35,079
outside at I think of the middle of the night. Wow, yeah,

1103
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:36,360
this is I guess in the middle of the night.

1104
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:39,920
But I've seen this magnitude of gamma and then people

1105
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,079
would report, you know, going back to this guy, people

1106
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:46,679
would report, I don't have one available, but we do

1107
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,079
have some gamma spikes where people reported that they did

1108
00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:52,559
have an experience. They did, you know, feel that they

1109
00:56:52,599 --> 00:56:54,719
were being watched, or they had this out of body

1110
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,920
or they felt they were abducted or something like that.

1111
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 3: Would any of them with this amplitude have of you know,

1112
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,519
negative effects like overexposure to radiation type stuff.

1113
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:09,039
Speaker 2: So I also they upload, so a lot of the

1114
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:12,960
people so I allow them to when they had incidents

1115
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,599
like that, I allow them to upload pictures and they can.

1116
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:21,800
I've had a lot of people like add in pictures

1117
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,079
of like lesions or rashes that appeared or something that

1118
00:57:27,119 --> 00:57:29,199
happened on their face. So we've got a lot of

1119
00:57:29,239 --> 00:57:32,960
that that happened. And you know, it is very surprising that,

1120
00:57:33,039 --> 00:57:34,880
you know, these people love to put this stuff on there.

1121
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:37,199
We don't know who they are, you know, I know

1122
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,920
who they are, but you know, the audience to people

1123
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,679
that look at this stuff don't know who they are,

1124
00:57:41,719 --> 00:57:45,239
but you know, they're willing to provide the data for

1125
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,280
us to look at and use it in our in

1126
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,320
our system. So it's it's very interesting that these people

1127
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:59,280
claim to have experiences during those periods of anomalist signal,

1128
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:03,360
show upload pictures of you know, their anatomy that has

1129
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,000
like rashes and lesions and you know, bloody noses and

1130
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:10,000
all sorts of things that happened to them. So, yeah,

1131
00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:11,320
absolutely amazing.

1132
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 3: Now I would love to see what this equipment actually

1133
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:14,400
looks like.

1134
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so right now we have two different two different

1135
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,559
pipes of equipment. Right now we have the mupas Mini,

1136
00:58:23,079 --> 00:58:26,400
which is a desktop version. I can actually show you.

1137
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,760
I can show you that one. It's a it's a

1138
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,400
very small device that sits on your you know, basically

1139
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,880
people put them in like their family room or they're

1140
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,679
most visited part of the house where a lot of

1141
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:41,679
the experiences happened and they just sit there and it

1142
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:43,559
just collects data all day long. And you can plug

1143
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:45,400
in a whole bunch of stuff. You could put plug

1144
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,480
in radiation detectors, you can plug in a camera, you know,

1145
00:58:49,559 --> 00:58:51,920
some you can some people put cameras in them. So

1146
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,920
they can get the anomalous things going by and put

1147
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,000
the camera in the window looking up at the stars,

1148
00:58:57,039 --> 00:58:59,960
and you can put in spectrometers and things like that

1149
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,320
into this device. So this is one of the devices

1150
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,280
that we have that we provide to them and they,

1151
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,880
you know, have the ability. And then here's all the sensors.

1152
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:12,320
So there's accelerometers, the magnometers, the gyroscopes, subs, gravity sensors,

1153
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:18,239
the acoustic sensors, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature. We even look

1154
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,960
at bock gases that you know might be making a

1155
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,159
difference GPS. Then we can also have an optional microwave sensor.

1156
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:29,559
And then we you know, it all comes with a

1157
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,559
this this portal, you know that I show you that

1158
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:34,880
you can go online and you know, view your data,

1159
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,360
view the notifications and all that kind of stuff and

1160
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,519
put in your narratives. And then we have another one.

1161
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:47,760
This is our biometric This actually is about a year old.

1162
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,400
We hadn't really it wasn't in the beginning, but we

1163
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:53,320
noticed that people kept saying that, look, you know, when

1164
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,960
the cool thing happened, I'm not home, I'm out in

1165
00:59:56,039 --> 01:00:00,360
my car, I'm in school. So I said, okay, so

1166
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,679
we came up with this Moupas Biometric, which is basically

1167
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,239
a smart watch that we connected to the system. And

1168
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,639
this thing actually does this really cool stuff and it

1169
01:00:11,679 --> 01:00:15,719
has heart rate, it has find most find muscle motion,

1170
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,400
which means it can sense tremors. And this is what

1171
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,280
we used. The tremor sensing is what we use to

1172
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,519
see what the excitement or the nervousness of the person

1173
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:28,639
is when they're having these experiences. Right, if somebody was

1174
01:00:28,679 --> 01:00:32,719
calm and relaxed and everything was cool, that's you know,

1175
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,960
then maybe they're not. But if it's like they're they're

1176
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:38,360
shaking and things like that, that means that this is

1177
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,880
a significant experience that they were you know, really getting into.

1178
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,199
And then you does all the same stuff. Microwave does

1179
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:48,039
a little gamma and has accelerometer and all this other

1180
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:51,559
stuff all built into it and it sits on your

1181
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:54,840
smartphone and then they have the same access to their

1182
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,559
you know, all their data and stuff like that. So

1183
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:00,800
these are the two devices that we we have available

1184
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:06,920
that people have been using. Wow, and then we've got

1185
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:08,960
I think, like I said, I think we're up to

1186
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,199
four hundred. I'd have to check, but I think we're

1187
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:11,800
up to four.

1188
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: Hundred and are you wanting to get to ten thousand?

1189
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:17,039
Speaker 1: And do you think you'll reach that number?

1190
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:21,119
Speaker 2: We're funded to ten thousand, so we have so if

1191
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:23,519
you look at this is a write up that we

1192
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:27,000
provide for everybody to tell them that you know we're funded,

1193
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:29,880
you know you help us, so we need to get up.

1194
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,559
So what we did is about when we first started

1195
01:01:33,559 --> 01:01:36,519
the study, we said what do we need to reach

1196
01:01:36,599 --> 01:01:39,440
the reach the goal of five sigma because right now

1197
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,760
we're four point five segment, which is okay but not great.

1198
01:01:43,719 --> 01:01:45,800
To get to phase two, we said, we want to

1199
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,079
go to five sigma, which is the you know, the

1200
01:01:48,159 --> 01:01:51,239
standard for everything. And we did a calculation. What do

1201
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,639
we need for population, what do we need for statistics,

1202
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,280
what do we need for spread of devices? You know,

1203
01:01:56,519 --> 01:01:59,760
we want to have concentrations and devices, And we figured

1204
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:04,079
out we needed at least ten thousand devices or experiencers

1205
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,239
worldwide to basically get to the point where we have

1206
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,360
the right amount of statistics. So ten thousand is our goal.

1207
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,159
And our sponsor, the person that actually is funding this,

1208
01:02:16,239 --> 01:02:19,360
has said that they would stick with us up to

1209
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:20,119
ten thousand.

1210
01:02:21,519 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: That's a lot.

1211
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 3: And because I'm sure you'll have the skeptics and the

1212
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,800
debunkers come back and say, oh, these are solar flares

1213
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:34,559
or somebody's WiFi or maybe a police car going by

1214
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,800
on his radio. Having this number of data points, does

1215
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,960
that solidify or make producing a paper, a peer reviewed

1216
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,199
paper more likely to pass. I would think it would.

1217
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,639
Speaker 2: Well, it is in that we're marrying to the Advantage

1218
01:02:52,679 --> 01:02:54,599
that we have is that we're not just taking the

1219
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:58,039
environmental data, which you see here, so this is just

1220
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:00,719
one piece of the data. What we're doing is we're

1221
01:03:00,719 --> 01:03:05,000
marrying in what these people are actually seeing through the incidents.

1222
01:03:05,039 --> 01:03:08,519
It's through ports. So when you take those together, it's

1223
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:10,360
not if it's a police card they want buy, they

1224
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,599
wouldn't have an experience, they wouldn't be documenting, or you know,

1225
01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:17,039
if it was a solar flare, they wouldn't be documenting

1226
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,920
the things that actually make it. So that data point

1227
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,119
is legit. So we're doing so we're collecting data from

1228
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:28,519
the human and we're collecting data from the environment, and

1229
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:31,400
we're marrying them together in a statistical model, and that's

1230
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:32,880
what makes it a relevant point.

1231
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 3: Now, how does someone apply to be a part of

1232
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,760
this study? And do you have to pay for Uh,

1233
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,400
does a consumer if you want to call them a consumer.

1234
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,079
Speaker 1: Uh, do they have to pay for the device? Like?

1235
01:03:45,119 --> 01:03:46,079
How does all of that work?

1236
01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:48,599
Speaker 2: Yeah? So basically it's all written up in here and

1237
01:03:48,639 --> 01:03:53,039
what you have to do. So we basically ask you to,

1238
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:56,280
you know, to sign up. You sign up, and we

1239
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,599
ask for a one time fee, which is the fee

1240
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:01,039
to make sure that we don't get like hordes of

1241
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:03,840
people coming in. So and then we return that fee

1242
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,880
after they're in, you know, because we got a lot

1243
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,559
of people that come in and they don't you know,

1244
01:04:07,639 --> 01:04:11,119
they don't follow through, and it's like, okay, so we

1245
01:04:11,199 --> 01:04:13,000
just asked for like thirty bucks and then we give

1246
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,519
it back to them. And then we asked them to

1247
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:17,760
take a survey. And their survey is important because if

1248
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,840
we don't we don't know something about them, then we

1249
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,000
really can't understand what's going on with them. So we

1250
01:04:24,039 --> 01:04:25,920
ask them to fill out a survey which gives us

1251
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,800
a little information about them. Then they select one of

1252
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,360
the devices, either a miny or a watch, and then

1253
01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:34,360
basically they you know, they sign an agreement that said

1254
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,719
they won't throw in the garbage, and then we send

1255
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,880
it to them. And then what we do is we

1256
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,679
ask them to contribute a certain amount per month that

1257
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:48,960
we send back to them if they participate regularly. So

1258
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:52,119
we have people that don't pay anything because they're constantly

1259
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:54,480
going on putting in nervous What we want when we

1260
01:04:54,559 --> 01:04:57,239
have somebody come into the study, we want them to

1261
01:04:57,239 --> 01:04:59,599
put in narrative. So if they you know, if they

1262
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:01,880
come in every day and they put in narratives, then

1263
01:05:02,039 --> 01:05:04,119
basically they don't really pay anything and we give them

1264
01:05:04,159 --> 01:05:06,679
the money back for the thirty dollars. But and then

1265
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,000
we also don't charge them for you know, if they

1266
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,039
participate and they're actively putting in narratives and they're participating

1267
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:16,679
in this study, then they're basically it doesn't cost them

1268
01:05:16,679 --> 01:05:23,239
a penny. And then here's if they if anybody's interested,

1269
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,280
here's you know, you could look at the QR and

1270
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,920
you could scan the cure code or go to this

1271
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,840
this site to get to Actually it's this page over

1272
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,639
here that you know that you come to, but this

1273
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:34,920
is the site that we have.

1274
01:05:35,079 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 3: Now, how long do you get to keep this device

1275
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,239
or or how long is phase two going to last?

1276
01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: Let's say I got one tomorrow, how long how long

1277
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:43,760
would I have this thing.

1278
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:48,079
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think that people are going

1279
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:51,039
to get what happened if it happened. The same way

1280
01:05:51,159 --> 01:05:56,000
is that people experiencers don't stop experiencing. They have these

1281
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,400
profound experiences throughout their lives. When once they start, they

1282
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,599
continue to do things things for a very long period

1283
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:05,599
of time. So I would estimate that these people would

1284
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:08,159
not want to give up and stay in the study

1285
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:11,719
because it gives them that sense of control over what's

1286
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,559
going on with them. So I don't really have anything

1287
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:17,960
to say that you know, it's going to end after

1288
01:06:18,039 --> 01:06:20,000
a year or something like that. My goal is to

1289
01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:24,199
get to sigma five point zero sigma. Once I get

1290
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:26,039
to that point, you know, who knows, I would like

1291
01:06:26,119 --> 01:06:28,920
to continue and move on and do other things and

1292
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,960
experiment and do a lot of interpersonal experiments, like have

1293
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:38,079
people like try to see if they can influence other

1294
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:42,440
members and you know, try to make it so they

1295
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,960
can intent on somebody else and change their data without

1296
01:06:46,039 --> 01:06:50,320
their data actually being affected by some environmental signals.

1297
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is really amazing because I think so many

1298
01:06:55,239 --> 01:06:59,480
people were all used to hearing the stories, which most

1299
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:02,320
of which I believe, but to see that there's actually

1300
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:05,840
data scientific data that correlates with it. I think that

1301
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:11,280
is that is really something I'm curious, Like the whole

1302
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,480
alien abduction thing. You'll hear people say, yeah, you know,

1303
01:07:15,559 --> 01:07:18,119
I saw these beings at the foot of my bed,

1304
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,440
floated out of the room, et cetera. And then you'll

1305
01:07:21,559 --> 01:07:24,920
also hear people say that it was more of like

1306
01:07:25,519 --> 01:07:28,199
a dream or they feel that it happened, but it

1307
01:07:28,239 --> 01:07:30,840
was like in a dream state. Have you noticed any

1308
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,440
difference between the two in terms of signals.

1309
01:07:34,519 --> 01:07:37,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we do get that both. You do get

1310
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:39,760
the people that feel they were physically abducted and the

1311
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,639
people that feel that they're conscious was abducted. And I

1312
01:07:43,639 --> 01:07:46,559
think the conscious abducted is prevalent. I mean, I mean,

1313
01:07:46,639 --> 01:07:50,920
like one hundred and one that they're the quantity. So,

1314
01:07:51,239 --> 01:07:53,440
but the people that feel that they're conscious where they

1315
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,960
feel that they go on someplace. So they were brought someplace,

1316
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:00,239
either on a craft or someplace remote, and they acting

1317
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,800
with what was ever there. So they feel that they

1318
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,840
physically left their body. And of course they don't feel

1319
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,679
that they you know, I shouldn't say physically their their

1320
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,960
their consciousness, consciousness left their body. The people that claim

1321
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,199
that they physically were abducted. Those people sometimes don't really

1322
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,720
And what's interesting is that the narratives that you get

1323
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,760
from these people, you could put it through their AI

1324
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,560
models and see exactly you know, you know, did they

1325
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,840
go away, did they did they were they frightened, were

1326
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,439
they anxious? Were they you know, what was their sentiment

1327
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:37,920
at that particular point. And what you find out is

1328
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:41,039
that the people that feel that had been you know,

1329
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:45,880
basically their consciousness abducted have much more profound experiences than

1330
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,680
people that say that they were physically abducted. So you

1331
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,640
tend to believe that, you know, there's a big difference

1332
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,840
between the two of them. But there's a lot of

1333
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,199
problems with physical abduction. You know, how did you get

1334
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:57,680
you know, how did they get you through the walls?

1335
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,119
How do they do all these things? But biousness is

1336
01:09:01,159 --> 01:09:05,079
an intellectual thing that seems to be a lot better

1337
01:09:05,119 --> 01:09:07,880
to understand and rationalize how that could happen.

1338
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 3: So, like you said, I barely passed college, and I

1339
01:09:12,039 --> 01:09:16,479
certainly certainly failed college physics. But this thought came to

1340
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:18,560
me one day, and I'm curious if you think that

1341
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,960
it could this hypothesis could be possible, because I was thinking,

1342
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,840
it's like, okay, you know, you you here in the literature,

1343
01:09:26,239 --> 01:09:29,520
all these people you know, floating you know, through walls

1344
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,720
or through the ceiling, or beings coming through the walls

1345
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:33,479
and whatnot.

1346
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:34,199
Speaker 1: And so I've been.

1347
01:09:34,079 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 3: Thinking it's like, well, how how would that physically happen?

1348
01:09:38,119 --> 01:09:45,479
And I remembered the graphic on the God the documentary

1349
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,319
that just came out having a.

1350
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 2: Sea, Yeah, the one that just said you're to ye

1351
01:09:52,199 --> 01:09:52,560
what we're.

1352
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 3: Both Yeah, the folks at home probably know what we're

1353
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,439
talking about, but this, it was this graphic that showed

1354
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:03,479
this kind of like space time warp bubble around the craft.

1355
01:10:04,079 --> 01:10:08,720
So I thought, okay, well, what if the mechanical way

1356
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:13,600
of them doing this is a craft hovers above a home.

1357
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:18,359
And obviously this craft, would you know, to propel itself,

1358
01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:22,039
has the ability to manipulate space time. What if it

1359
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,119
had the ability to expand that bubble such that it

1360
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,800
encompassed the home or a bedroom or something like that.

1361
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:37,239
Would could that possibly be if somebody's within that time distortion?

1362
01:10:38,359 --> 01:10:41,319
Could that possibly be like how they would get floated

1363
01:10:41,359 --> 01:10:42,279
through a wall or whatever.

1364
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, So when we talk about the gyroscopic sensor

1365
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,279
going off, and we started talking about the gamma rays

1366
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:52,560
going off. If you had this warp bubble or this

1367
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:55,880
metric that was around their ship, did they expand it

1368
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,600
out and encompass the other people? The sensor would then say, Okay,

1369
01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:02,640
something's going on, and so it would pass through the

1370
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,039
sensor and the sensor would do a jiggle. Right, you'd

1371
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:07,680
see this jiggle going on, or you'd see a bunch

1372
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,439
of gamma rays because every time you have something like that,

1373
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,720
something energetic, you have a lot, you have a shower

1374
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,000
of these gamma particles that you would then the sensor

1375
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,880
picks up. So yeah, I think that's probably one of

1376
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:25,439
the better hypotheses is that whatever they're doing, they're actually

1377
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:31,880
enveloping this hole, their environment in this bubble, so it

1378
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,119
appears to them that, you know, time hasn't changed. You know,

1379
01:11:35,159 --> 01:11:38,319
they're just basically living in there in this due time frame.

1380
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:40,680
But then when they return back and they go back

1381
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:44,159
through the bubble, they're back in their normal time. So

1382
01:11:44,319 --> 01:11:47,199
that's very, very possible. And then the question is how

1383
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:51,199
far away is this crap doesn't necessarily I mean wormholes

1384
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,800
of One of the things that I worked with Travis

1385
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,640
with is these you know, is it possible that a

1386
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,960
lot of the phenomenon that we're saying is because there's

1387
01:12:00,119 --> 01:12:03,720
wormholes that are being created by some remote civilization that

1388
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,760
actually ends up looking at us. And that's really just

1389
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,800
a censor. I mean, no matter to passes through, but

1390
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:13,119
a consciousness information could pass through, So you could be

1391
01:12:13,279 --> 01:12:17,520
living your consciousness could be living within that within that wormhole,

1392
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,199
and end up being you know, millions of miles away.

1393
01:12:20,359 --> 01:12:22,159
Speaker 3: So if I do end up going back to college

1394
01:12:22,199 --> 01:12:25,000
and I take physics again, I might actually might actually

1395
01:12:25,039 --> 01:12:25,800
pass this time.

1396
01:12:27,159 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just better maybe FaceTime metric. Yeah, and find

1397
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:32,119
out that it's it's it's a real thing.

1398
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:38,199
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah. The whole thing just boggles

1399
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:38,720
my mind.

1400
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,520
Speaker 3: But speaking of something else that kind of boggles my mind,

1401
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,119
is this whole hitchhiker effect that we hear about. Sure,

1402
01:12:46,279 --> 01:12:48,800
tell us what in your view the hitchhiker effect is.

1403
01:12:49,039 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 1: Do you think it's real?

1404
01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:53,079
Speaker 3: And when did you realize that it was truly a

1405
01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:54,520
recognizable pattern?

1406
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,119
Speaker 2: Well, you asked the question earlier about you know, my uh,

1407
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,880
if I had any reservations about going on the ranch

1408
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,000
or anything like that, or going in that area and

1409
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,039
stuff like that, and at that point when I was

1410
01:13:05,079 --> 01:13:08,199
first introduced to this, I didn't really think about that

1411
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:11,079
or know about that. But there are a lot of

1412
01:13:11,079 --> 01:13:13,760
people that won't go anywhere near the ranch because they

1413
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,560
don't really feel that they're going to get hurt. They

1414
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,720
feel that they're going to bring something back and their

1415
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:20,680
family is going to get hurt or their friends are

1416
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:25,239
going to get hurt. And it's possible, it's statistically relevant

1417
01:13:25,279 --> 01:13:27,840
that people that do visit these areas, and not just

1418
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:32,279
Skinwalker but the whole area end up having other issues

1419
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,920
back home or wherever they're normally staying, and other people

1420
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,159
start having issues. So it's more than just a casual

1421
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,840
of coincidence that there was, you know, a bunch of people.

1422
01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:48,920
Colin Keller, her and Kick Green and all those scientists.

1423
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:54,159
They've spent time understanding this hitchhiker effect and actually, you know,

1424
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,520
came up with some statistics to say that, in fact,

1425
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,159
it is true that people when people come back, it

1426
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:04,399
is statistically significant that they do sometimes pass on the

1427
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:09,279
phenomena to other people and they start having experiences and

1428
01:14:09,399 --> 01:14:13,199
injuries or illnesses or things like that that are unexplainable.

1429
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 3: I mean, I can understand how a dog is going

1430
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:20,600
to follow you home. But how what is the hypothesis

1431
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:24,439
of how this phenomenon follows somebody home hundreds of miles

1432
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,039
away from the ranch. Is it like a virus that

1433
01:14:27,159 --> 01:14:31,079
spreads What could be the mechanism of how this might work.

1434
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: Well, just think about it in terms of like a connection,

1435
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:40,159
a communication between these people. So they bring it home,

1436
01:14:40,199 --> 01:14:43,319
and then once they're connected to this individual, they say, oh,

1437
01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:46,279
that's an interesting individual too, so they might include that

1438
01:14:46,319 --> 01:14:50,920
person and their communication, and then that person starts interacting

1439
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,000
with that phenomena. So it's like I said, it's the

1440
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:58,399
people that spark the phenomena to start acting in very

1441
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:03,119
anomalous ways. So that's and it doesn't matter where you are.

1442
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:05,439
I mean, we find out not a distance case, because

1443
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:09,279
we've had things happened, you know, across the world where

1444
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,520
you know, somebody over here would have an experience and

1445
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,680
somebody over here would have an experience and they would

1446
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,439
have very similar experiences and at the same exact time.

1447
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,439
We've had a lot of those cases. So it's just

1448
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,520
when they have the experience, it's you know, is the

1449
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:29,000
is this phenomena interfering interacting with them? And then what's

1450
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,920
to say that that it's not skipping to the next

1451
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,840
person that they are interacting with, you know, the person's

1452
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,600
interacting with, so I you know, it's you know, there's

1453
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:39,960
a lot of work done. It says that the hitchhiker

1454
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:43,319
is real enough to say, well, and there's a lot

1455
01:15:43,319 --> 01:15:44,640
of people scared of it, and they said, I'm not

1456
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:46,319
going to go anywhere near those place because I'm worried

1457
01:15:46,319 --> 01:15:47,439
about bringing some home.

1458
01:15:48,079 --> 01:15:50,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can count me in that group.

1459
01:15:50,359 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 3: So, so, does this stuff actually wear off or once

1460
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,039
you're pitch hiked so to speak, is it permanent?

1461
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,079
Speaker 2: According to the people that we've ever talked to, once

1462
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:06,680
they start having these things, it's continuous. They just continue

1463
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,399
to have them throughout their lives. And there's people that are,

1464
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:11,680
you know, in their seventies that say, you know, they

1465
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,479
had their original experience when they were you know, very young,

1466
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,800
you know, in their twenties, and then ever since they've

1467
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:20,079
had these things go. So I've never heard of so

1468
01:16:20,319 --> 01:16:22,520
that's actually not true. So I've heard of a lot

1469
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,560
of people lately, and a lot of people that are

1470
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:27,359
in the study and they use the devices for this,

1471
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:33,560
they learn how to remove this phenomena from them, so

1472
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,960
they actually make it so they can continuate and make

1473
01:16:38,079 --> 01:16:42,760
the because when you know something about the phenomena, it

1474
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,600
tends to go away. It tends to go away. So

1475
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,720
they've learned how to make it go away just by

1476
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,000
being involved in the studies. So, you know, a lot

1477
01:16:51,039 --> 01:16:52,560
of people don't want to have it in their lives.

1478
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,199
They're you know, it's dangerous to them, or they're you know,

1479
01:16:56,319 --> 01:16:58,439
they it's upsetting to them, and they want to get

1480
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:01,720
rid of it. So they join the study and they

1481
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,840
get control, not control of it, but you know, they

1482
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:09,199
kind of have a feel of it, and then from

1483
01:17:09,239 --> 01:17:12,720
that they're allowed to, uh, you know, they slowly make

1484
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:13,239
it go away.

1485
01:17:13,359 --> 01:17:17,399
Speaker 3: You hear like people that have like paranormal stuff or

1486
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,159
Poulter guysed stuff in their house, like if they burn

1487
01:17:20,279 --> 01:17:23,479
sage or doing, you know, do things like that that

1488
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,199
to me, it seems like it wouldn't do anything, but

1489
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:28,399
they claim that it really works. So do you think

1490
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,600
it could be a similar sort of mechanism, Like how

1491
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,840
much does being open to it or inviting it versus

1492
01:17:36,359 --> 01:17:39,119
you saying no, you're not welcome in my home.

1493
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 1: How effectual is that?

1494
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know the exact process. These people use.

1495
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:47,640
But there's some people that are coaching others. We have

1496
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,159
a thing in our in our system where you can

1497
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,600
actually talk to a subject matter expert and somebody that

1498
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,760
can actually go through and help you. So we have

1499
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,439
those like it's like not a consular but it's somebody

1500
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:03,359
that helps you do this and they have methods to

1501
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:08,239
help them help other people deal with these experiences. Again,

1502
01:18:08,319 --> 01:18:10,840
these people, you know, some of these people are traumatized

1503
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,680
by these things. So you know, is it you know,

1504
01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:17,720
I guess you could teach us to teach whatever it

1505
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,279
is to you can control it. Actually, I guess that's

1506
01:18:21,359 --> 01:18:22,359
more of a way to put it.

1507
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,520
Speaker 3: So Jim, I have to ask, have you brought anything home?

1508
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,239
Have you experienced the hitchhiker effect yourself?

1509
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 2: I have not, but you you know, I don't believe

1510
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,039
I have because it's very difficult to actually tell. You

1511
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:38,399
have you raise your eyebrow with certain things? They say, well,

1512
01:18:38,399 --> 01:18:40,199
you know why that person gets sick, and there's not

1513
01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:42,199
a genetic thing in our family or things like that.

1514
01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:45,880
So there are situations where people will pick up these

1515
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:51,159
strange autoimmune diseases that are you know, very prevalent in

1516
01:18:51,239 --> 01:18:57,399
experiencers and no genetic evidence that is prevalent in any family.

1517
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,039
So you know, my personal experience has been that it's

1518
01:19:01,079 --> 01:19:03,439
a little big, it's a question mark there. So I

1519
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:05,399
don't really know if I brought something back, and I

1520
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:07,600
would never admit it to them anyway.

1521
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:13,600
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, we've spoken about the view into basin and

1522
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,039
if you know Skinwalker, Skinwalker hitchhikes people and you have

1523
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:22,600
this at blind Frog Ranch, are there other hot spots

1524
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,119
in the world that maybe people are not as familiar

1525
01:19:25,159 --> 01:19:27,600
with where this sort of stuff is spreading.

1526
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: For lack of a better way of explaining it.

1527
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:34,520
Speaker 2: Well, Hesselden out in Norway is an area that gets

1528
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,800
a lot of off strains things. We've got three or

1529
01:19:38,119 --> 01:19:44,520
devices oh in Norway, yeah, Held Valley. Yeah, so it's

1530
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,479
a it's a big hot spot. It's been for years,

1531
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,680
a lot of things happening. We've got three devices there

1532
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,720
that constantly monitor and we can look at that and

1533
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,319
people can comment on it. And then there's some people

1534
01:19:57,359 --> 01:19:59,800
that are actually in the valley there that actually get it.

1535
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:02,199
So and then there's a lot of other stuff going on.

1536
01:20:02,319 --> 01:20:05,359
Australia is just chalk full of areas that have very

1537
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,800
very strange things going on. So we've got like four

1538
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,119
or five devices in there that record some amazing things.

1539
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,079
So and there's places all over the you know, the

1540
01:20:16,079 --> 01:20:19,319
world that have a lot of hotspots, So just because

1541
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,359
and you know, it's kind of interesting that one of

1542
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:23,359
the reasons that we want to get to ten thousand

1543
01:20:23,359 --> 01:20:27,159
devices because if we can map the world and show

1544
01:20:27,359 --> 01:20:31,000
where the hotspots are and kind of get a like

1545
01:20:31,039 --> 01:20:34,680
a heat map over the world to see where this

1546
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:37,399
experiences are prevalent. I mean, of course you have to

1547
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:39,600
count for populations, and you have to count for weathers

1548
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,239
and things like that, but we you know, one of

1549
01:20:42,319 --> 01:20:44,039
the reasons to get the numbers at high is because

1550
01:20:44,119 --> 01:20:46,840
we want to be able to answer that question where

1551
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:50,239
are the other hotspots and are they concentrated in areas?

1552
01:20:50,279 --> 01:20:52,319
Are they you know, are they remote? Are they in

1553
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:54,760
population areas and things like that. So there's a lot

1554
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,039
of interesting questions that could be answered once you get

1555
01:20:58,039 --> 01:21:00,920
your number of people that high enough.

1556
01:21:01,199 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 1: Okay, we've heard from Gary Nolan.

1557
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,159
Speaker 3: Doctor Gary Nolan has been on our show quite a

1558
01:21:06,199 --> 01:21:10,119
few times, and he's spoken about how people that have

1559
01:21:10,359 --> 01:21:14,520
encountered UAP, either working for the government or not, have

1560
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:19,760
often received sort of like brain injury, and I'm not

1561
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,199
going to even attempt to describe what it is because

1562
01:21:22,199 --> 01:21:24,680
I'll totally butcher the thing. But I want to talk

1563
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,000
about Havana syndrome. And I know this is something you've

1564
01:21:27,039 --> 01:21:31,119
looked into, so US diplomats getting these same sort of

1565
01:21:31,199 --> 01:21:35,920
mysterious brain injuries. You've studied this are UAP brain injuries

1566
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:39,920
and Havana syndrome. Literally the same thing in terms of

1567
01:21:40,079 --> 01:21:43,159
you know, same kind of like signature, symptoms, signals that

1568
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:47,840
you would see in a MRIs or anything distinguishable.

1569
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: Between the two.

1570
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, a fact, there was one of the things going

1571
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:54,720
back when the Havana Center people started going out, so

1572
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,199
they were you know, they were publishing. We didn't get

1573
01:21:57,239 --> 01:21:59,640
all full data at that point, but as data started

1574
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,079
coming up, we started hearing information like the National Academy

1575
01:22:03,119 --> 01:22:06,399
of Sciences published, We had a lot of information available

1576
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,119
to us. We found out that a lot of the

1577
01:22:09,159 --> 01:22:11,720
patients that came in a prevalent amount of the patients

1578
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:15,479
that were diagnosed with this had these accidental breaks. That

1579
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,079
means that your action on the things that interconnect your

1580
01:22:18,119 --> 01:22:22,359
brain would break basically and would start to bleed. You

1581
01:22:22,399 --> 01:22:25,439
get these micro bleeds which show up on a certain MRIs,

1582
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:30,239
and the people that had gotten these MRIs, most of

1583
01:22:30,279 --> 01:22:33,039
the people that were in the that were categorized and

1584
01:22:33,359 --> 01:22:39,119
diagnosed with this had these accidental bleeds acconal bleeds. And

1585
01:22:39,199 --> 01:22:41,279
so we said, oh, that's interesting. So we went back

1586
01:22:41,279 --> 01:22:43,359
to a lot of the people that we were looking

1587
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:47,119
at we had medical information on. We went back and

1588
01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:49,600
looked at their MRIs and churn up a lot of

1589
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:52,960
them had the same acconal bleeds. So and it's like,

1590
01:22:53,079 --> 01:22:56,560
if you think about it, if like a boxer, you know,

1591
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,720
gets hit with a punch, your head in credit trauma,

1592
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:03,279
and then you're because your accents are sitting in water,

1593
01:23:03,359 --> 01:23:07,079
mostly they'll they'll they'll break and bleed. It happens when

1594
01:23:07,119 --> 01:23:10,319
you're hit your head with a car. So normally, accidental

1595
01:23:10,399 --> 01:23:13,520
bleeding is done when you have some trauma to your head,

1596
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:16,079
like a car accident or a boxer or something happens

1597
01:23:16,119 --> 01:23:18,640
to you. But these people didn't, they didn't have anything.

1598
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:20,600
They were, you know, sitting in their own rooms or

1599
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,600
these people that saw UFOs, they were just you know,

1600
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,960
in their houses or driving in their cars. They didn't

1601
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:28,640
have any trauma. Yet they had the same type of

1602
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:32,840
injuries that the Havanas syndrome people have. So now that's

1603
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:36,000
one of the indicators that there is, you know, Havana syndrome.

1604
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,279
A patient is to look at their MRIs and see

1605
01:23:39,319 --> 01:23:41,479
if they go through this ttis they go through the

1606
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:46,520
special MRI, which shows that they have these microbleeds in there. Unfortunately,

1607
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,119
the microbleeds the blood that comes out of your accents

1608
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:52,640
are so tiny and anticipates it takes about a year

1609
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,800
to dissipate. It's hard to go back to these people

1610
01:23:56,319 --> 01:23:59,760
after a long period of time to see what it is. So,

1611
01:24:00,399 --> 01:24:02,760
you know, that's unfortunate. But that's just the way it is.

1612
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,079
Speaker 3: One thing that I've heard, and I'm just curious your

1613
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:08,439
personal opinion kind of a conspiracy theory. Do you think

1614
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:12,560
that the havana weapon that foreign adversaries could be using

1615
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:17,079
came from reverse engineered UAP technology. Is it something that

1616
01:24:17,399 --> 01:24:20,720
just appeared on the scene all of a sudden, or

1617
01:24:21,119 --> 01:24:23,399
does this like date back to the forties that kind

1618
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:23,680
of thing.

1619
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 2: It could very well. I mean some of the stuff

1620
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:27,880
you think about it to do what it did is

1621
01:24:28,079 --> 01:24:35,760
pretty damn advanced. You don't see the products or you

1622
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:39,039
don't see the technologies that would have come along with

1623
01:24:39,119 --> 01:24:44,039
it appearing. Some of this stuff is just insane that

1624
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:46,399
it would happen. So and to do that big of

1625
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,800
population that much energy, If you go through and figure

1626
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:52,359
out how much energy it actually needs, it's incredible. So

1627
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:54,920
when you look at the National Academy of Science, they

1628
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:58,680
published something back about two years ago and they said

1629
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,760
it was some type of energy device that actually produced

1630
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,199
this thing. But to have that large of a volume,

1631
01:25:04,239 --> 01:25:07,039
it must have been enormous. So how do you do

1632
01:25:07,119 --> 01:25:09,880
that without being detected? Because they said they didn't know

1633
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,920
where it came from, but they know what they knew

1634
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:14,399
what it was, you know, they and then there was

1635
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:19,199
another well well read application from another scientific group that

1636
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:24,000
said basically, yeah, we agree that it's a some electromagnetic

1637
01:25:24,159 --> 01:25:28,359
spike pulse that that came and did this. So, you know,

1638
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,800
is it the government thing? Who knows? If it is?

1639
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:35,159
Why haven't we seen some other things that would relate

1640
01:25:35,239 --> 01:25:38,800
to that technology being available for that type of thing. Usually,

1641
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,359
like when somebody invents something super terrific that's used in weapons,

1642
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:45,880
eventually it matriculates down to the rest of the products

1643
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:47,880
in technologies.

1644
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:52,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's I know a couple of people that

1645
01:25:52,359 --> 01:25:56,159
have been have vanded one one was in national security

1646
01:25:56,159 --> 01:26:00,119
in the first Trump administration, and I also people that

1647
01:26:01,359 --> 01:26:05,000
are used to be in the intelligence world that experienced

1648
01:26:05,039 --> 01:26:08,920
it as as as well. So I mean this what

1649
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,439
you're the work you're doing is is just amazing with

1650
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:14,279
this uh, with this move past?

1651
01:26:14,359 --> 01:26:17,359
Speaker 1: Am I saying it right? Mopass study?

1652
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:22,239
Speaker 3: And again, how can folks go and apply to be

1653
01:26:22,279 --> 01:26:23,199
a part of this study?

1654
01:26:24,199 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have a website that you can go

1655
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:29,960
to that will explain exactly what we have available and

1656
01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:32,279
what the devices are, what you do, you know, how

1657
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:35,119
do you get involved? And you can scan the QR code.

1658
01:26:35,159 --> 01:26:37,680
You can go to this site and basically you can

1659
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,399
come over here and it brings you to this and

1660
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:42,159
you can read all about it. You can look at

1661
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:44,039
the devices, you can click and you can look at

1662
01:26:44,039 --> 01:26:47,319
the Phase one study results. You can see all the

1663
01:26:47,319 --> 01:26:51,640
information that we gathered for Phase one, which is you know,

1664
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,319
public information. Now that it's been it's been out there,

1665
01:26:54,399 --> 01:26:57,880
we have so much information available that you know, how

1666
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,239
we did it, what we did, what are the results,

1667
01:27:00,279 --> 01:27:02,920
and things like that. So you know, if you're interested

1668
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:06,800
in looking at and being involved and understanding what we're

1669
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,880
doing and why we're doing it. You can have a

1670
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:14,239
nice little website here that provides that information so you know, again,

1671
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:18,039
so this is the website, THEURL experience for studies dot

1672
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:20,800
com oopous study two, or you can just scan this

1673
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:24,079
on your phone and it'll actually go right to it.

1674
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:30,119
Speaker 3: The microbleeds are could any of them be related.

1675
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 1: To sort of poor.

1676
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:37,600
Speaker 3: Habits in terms of high blood pressure or high cholesterol

1677
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,920
and also being above say like fifty.

1678
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a medical doctor, but I don't believe.

1679
01:27:47,039 --> 01:27:49,079
So I think that one of the conclusions that the

1680
01:27:49,119 --> 01:27:54,239
microbleed is a trauma based thing. So you're actually shocking

1681
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:59,520
your neurons and they're basically sharing and they're moving apart.

1682
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:03,399
So it's a physical thing that happens. What we did

1683
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,680
show is that you can get that through an electromagnetic

1684
01:28:07,119 --> 01:28:10,560
type of pulse. So electromagnetic pulse can go through your

1685
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:14,039
head and because of the way your your physiology is

1686
01:28:14,079 --> 01:28:17,680
inside your accent, it'll actually would tear it apart. But

1687
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,520
it's not a you know, it's not a health thing.

1688
01:28:22,159 --> 01:28:26,239
It can't really your body can't just simultaneous or spontaneously

1689
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:30,840
you know, share your accents. But it's it's so suspicious

1690
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:36,359
because it's your your accents are splitting and bleeding, and

1691
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,159
the only way to do that is to have a

1692
01:28:38,159 --> 01:28:41,359
physical mechanical force that actually does it. So it's either

1693
01:28:41,399 --> 01:28:45,279
through electromagnetic pulses doing it, or you have some type

1694
01:28:45,319 --> 01:28:47,159
of brain trauma, which is, you know, you get hit

1695
01:28:47,199 --> 01:28:49,720
in the head, or you you know, you have a

1696
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:52,560
car accident where your head hits the airbag or whatever.

1697
01:28:53,039 --> 01:28:55,279
So that's you know, ninety nine point nine percent of

1698
01:28:55,319 --> 01:28:58,199
the people that have this is from head trauma.

1699
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 3: Jim, what needs to happen for universities and mainstream science

1700
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:03,479
to finally take this stuff seriously?

1701
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,239
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly there's a there there.

1702
01:29:05,279 --> 01:29:07,560
Speaker 3: What is the kind of tipping point that you think

1703
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,439
we would need to reach for this not to be

1704
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,199
a taboo subject.

1705
01:29:13,319 --> 01:29:16,399
Speaker 2: Well, I think that publishing a report that shows a

1706
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:19,840
five sigma result would wake everybody up and say, wait

1707
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,600
a minute, all right, see you've got a five Let's

1708
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,119
see if we can go at it another way, another

1709
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:28,840
another bunch of hypotheses and questions. You know, maybe we

1710
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:31,119
can get that published. So but one of the things

1711
01:29:31,119 --> 01:29:34,199
that we're doing is that we're working with two universities now,

1712
01:29:34,239 --> 01:29:36,720
one of the East coast on the West coast, which

1713
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:41,000
are there the archival type of repositories for other type

1714
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:45,600
of data. And what we're allowing is that scientists, the

1715
01:29:46,279 --> 01:29:48,560
rule of scientists out there that want to get involved,

1716
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,079
we're offering the data coming from this study to them,

1717
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:54,359
of course in a very stripped down way that we

1718
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:57,439
don't give out any personal information and let them go

1719
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,520
forward so they can then propose to their people. Look,

1720
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,159
I'm going to get this data from these studies you know,

1721
01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:05,840
millions of people, you know, millions of you know, pieces

1722
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:08,479
of information, and I'm going to go try to answer

1723
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,479
this particular question and to get funding. So we're going

1724
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,359
to say from twofold or say, look, we're going to

1725
01:30:14,399 --> 01:30:17,239
show that it's okay to published here because if we

1726
01:30:17,319 --> 01:30:20,359
get the decent when we get our results, and also

1727
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:22,560
we're going to provide the data that other people could

1728
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:23,279
start producing.

1729
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Well, Jim, thanks for joining us.

1730
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 3: This has really been something else, and congratulations on this

1731
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:33,960
absolutely amazing study. I'm just incredibly excited about about this

1732
01:30:34,079 --> 01:30:35,239
and what is.

1733
01:30:35,159 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: Going to come out of it.

1734
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 3: Do you think that or do you have kind of

1735
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,640
like a kind of time estimate as far as when

1736
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,560
you think this paper would be produced. Is there a

1737
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,760
critical mass? So are you not going to do it

1738
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,920
until you hit that ten thousand? What will be the

1739
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,840
sort of point where you say, okay, let's let's write

1740
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:53,359
this paper.

1741
01:30:54,119 --> 01:30:56,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think the first paper that normally you write

1742
01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:59,159
is the process paper. Basically, what you do is you

1743
01:30:59,279 --> 01:31:01,239
write up this, say this is how I did it,

1744
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,359
and you publish that. So that'll be done very very

1745
01:31:04,399 --> 01:31:06,359
soon because we want other people to do this. We

1746
01:31:06,399 --> 01:31:08,640
don't want to be you know, the worst thing you

1747
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:10,439
can do is publish a paper that the only one

1748
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:11,960
that did it. You want do you want to publish

1749
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,079
a paper and say, look, there's three other groups doing this.

1750
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:16,600
So the first paper that will come out and very

1751
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:19,319
soon will be the published paper that said this is

1752
01:31:19,359 --> 01:31:21,840
how we did it, this is the statistical model, and

1753
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,199
all that kind of stuff. And then once we start

1754
01:31:24,279 --> 01:31:29,439
hitting our milestones of significance in our statistical model, then

1755
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:32,039
we'll start publishing and say okay, here's our result, and

1756
01:31:32,079 --> 01:31:34,119
then we might follow it up with another one says okay,

1757
01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:36,560
here here's another one, and then start following it up.

1758
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:39,399
So I would say that once we hit the thousand mark,

1759
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:42,159
which we're starting to get to pretty quickly. We're going

1760
01:31:42,239 --> 01:31:44,159
to start getting to the point where we can start

1761
01:31:44,239 --> 01:31:47,600
putting this down on paper and publishing and hitting the

1762
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:51,319
journals with some dcent you get some really good Like

1763
01:31:51,319 --> 01:31:54,640
I said, there's these universities are very high level university,

1764
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,479
so we can publish so easily with them.

1765
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 1: Fantastic.

1766
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,199
Speaker 3: So, Jim, how can folks at home, if they're not

1767
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:03,399
going to join the study, how can they at a

1768
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:07,399
bare minimum follow your work? And you know these studies

1769
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:08,520
that are going to come out.

1770
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 2: So we do have our social media, so growth to Facebook,

1771
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:13,520
we have a whole bunch of things like that. We

1772
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,680
have a Reddit channel. If you guys want to go

1773
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,760
on Reddit, there is a place you can go and

1774
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,239
you know, put comments in and listen to other people

1775
01:32:20,279 --> 01:32:24,039
talking and things like that. We're and then you can

1776
01:32:24,079 --> 01:32:27,880
go to the experiencer Reddit group. They're constantly talking about

1777
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:32,359
this stuff. But you know, social media Twitter, Facebook and

1778
01:32:32,399 --> 01:32:35,159
all those things that you could follow us on and

1779
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:37,520
then you know, get involved in the study. There's a

1780
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,640
lot of podcasts out there that we've done and so

1781
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:42,760
we're pretty much all over social media.

1782
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:44,119
Speaker 1: Awesome.

1783
01:32:44,199 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 3: Well, Jim, thanks for joining us, and I look forward

1784
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,479
to hearing having you back on the show to tell

1785
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:50,800
us what you're finding out there.

1786
01:32:51,239 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 2: Yep, that'd be great. Thanks for having me folks.

1787
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,079
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed our conversation with doctor Jim Sigala, you

1788
01:32:57,119 --> 01:33:00,680
will love this episode. Thanks for tuning in and if

1789
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,880
you love our channel, please hit that subscribe button.

1790
01:33:04,119 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: See you next time.