1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:00,480 Speaker 1: C. S. 2 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 2: Lewis in his Narnia series. 3 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:05,879 Speaker 3: He has this image that in fact, the great lion 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,720 Aslan sang the world into being. And this is the 5 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:12,039 analogy that I want you to maintain in your mind. 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,080 As we go through the days of Creation, you will 7 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,199 see that all of the discussion about creation in Genesis 8 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,960 one and two is really something like variations on a theme. 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,399 God presents a theme at the outset and then plays 10 00:00:28,399 --> 00:00:31,239 with that theme all through the description of creation and 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,399 gives us variation on the first pattern that he established 12 00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:39,439 at the beginning. Now, of course, unlike our musical experiences, 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,159 that theme is not just. 14 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,119 Speaker 2: A theme, It is the theme. It is the pattern. 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 3: Right, He's describing the very pattern of the cosmos itself, 16 00:00:49,679 --> 00:00:53,240 and as he goes through the days, you will see 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,280 how that pattern is repeated and is played with. 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,159 Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Pechel, Welcome to the symbolic world. 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 4: What you're about to see is a concert slash speaking 20 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:29,959 event that I did at Saint Michael's Anglican Church in Charleston, 21 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,959 South Carolina. It was an event that was organized by 22 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,719 my friend Matthew Wilkinson, who runs the Pursuit of Beauty podcast. 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,840 You might have seen me on that podcast. He's been 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,000 doing a great job and he's an old friend of mine. 25 00:01:43,159 --> 00:01:45,760 It was a wonderful event where I would explain the 26 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:49,640 symbolism in Genesis and then the choirs would sing different 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,519 pieces of music. It was of course Saint Michael's choir itself, 28 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,280 but also the choir from Holy Ascension in Charleston, a 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,239 Paris that I love very much, and so it was 30 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:03,040 a wonderful time and a wonderful surprise to be able 31 00:02:03,079 --> 00:02:05,200 to do an event like that, and I think you'll 32 00:02:05,319 --> 00:02:06,200 enjoy it very much. 33 00:02:06,319 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 5: Good evening, and welcome to you Saint Michael's Church, on 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,479 the Reverend al Zatic director here and on behalf of 35 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,840 our entire music ministry and our director Matthew Wilkinson. Welcome 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,639 to Saint Michael's on a Sunday night. We are so 37 00:02:20,039 --> 00:02:23,080 glad that you are here. Thank you for coming to 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,719 this extended meditation upon the seven Days of Creation. 39 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: This entire concert series is. 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,759 Speaker 5: A way to engage our collective community beyond our walls 41 00:02:33,759 --> 00:02:37,319 with the beauty not only intrinsic to the gospel and 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,960 the arts, but ultimately to the gospel itself, the Gospel 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,319 of Jesus Christ and so I'd like to thank. 44 00:02:44,159 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: The acchoirs from St. 45 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:49,039 Speaker 5: Michael's Church tonight, along with our friends from the Holy 46 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,879 Ascension Orthodox Church and their director Olivia Reman. Our format 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,360 tonight includes teaching from the spoken word and the best 48 00:02:58,439 --> 00:03:03,240 of classical hymnity. Our guest Jonathan Pagot upstairs here will 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,199 read from Genesis through each of the days of Creation 50 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,719 and then respond to the scripture with symbolic insights and interpretation, 51 00:03:13,199 --> 00:03:18,159 followed by choral and instrumental music. All the proceeds from 52 00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:21,159 tonight's concert will do offset the cost of the concert 53 00:03:21,439 --> 00:03:25,599 and go to furthering this particular concert series, including our 54 00:03:25,759 --> 00:03:29,319 next concert, which will be the annual Saint Michael's Christmas 55 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:32,439 Tide Concert on Sunday, December twenty first. 56 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: At the very same. 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,159 Speaker 5: Time, we extend a special gratitude to Bill and Phyllis 58 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:44,000 Johnson for their incredible generosity and helping catalyze this concert 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,719 series and making it all possible. 60 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:47,879 Speaker 2: So thanks be to God. 61 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 5: Immediately following this concert, please join us for coffee, tea 62 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,280 and treats in the narthex for reflection and conversation about 63 00:03:57,319 --> 00:03:59,759 what we've heard this evening. You know, we never learned 64 00:03:59,759 --> 00:04:03,199 from our experience. We only learned from the reflection of 65 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,360 that experience. So join us in the Narthex tonight right 66 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,360 after this concert. Now, let me introduce to you our 67 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:11,280 guest speaker this evening. 68 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: His name is Jonathan Pagot. 69 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:18,439 Speaker 5: Jonathan is a world renowned iron carver, a main contributor 70 00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:22,439 to the Orthodox Arts Journal, where he has written extensively 71 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:28,519 on Scripture, art and symbolism, and is probably best known 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,399 for his online community and podcast, The Symbolic World, where 73 00:04:33,399 --> 00:04:35,839 he and colleagues break down all of the patterns that 74 00:04:35,879 --> 00:04:40,360 make up our experience of the world. Jonathan also provides 75 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:46,319 incisive cultural critiquing of movies and stories and grounds these 76 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:50,680 symbolic patterns within the Holy Scripture and of course, the 77 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,519 Church Fathers. 78 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: Jonathan also established the Symbolic. 79 00:04:54,079 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 5: World Press, which is currently producing a series of fairy 80 00:04:57,399 --> 00:05:01,240 tales for kids and for adult alike, and he offers 81 00:05:01,319 --> 00:05:06,680 classes on his website with renowned experts on Dante, Boethius, C. S. 82 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: Lewis, and more. 83 00:05:08,639 --> 00:05:13,399 Speaker 5: So please join me in welcoming Jonathan Pajo Jonathan Above. 84 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 6: Min I tell you what the con. 85 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 7: It is. 86 00:05:21,639 --> 00:05:24,199 Speaker 3: It is truly a joy to be here. Some of 87 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,519 you know this, and some of you don't. Charleston is 88 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,279 one of my favorite places in the world. I absolutely 89 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,839 love to come here, and I look for reasons and 90 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:34,959 opportunities to come here. So when my friend Matt Wilkinson 91 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,160 suggested that I come and speak to you about creation, 92 00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:43,879 it was impossible to say no. In the beginning, God 93 00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:46,920 created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was 94 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,759 without form and void, and darkness was upon the face 95 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:53,759 of the deep, and the spirit of God moved upon 96 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,800 the face of the waters. And the earth was without 97 00:05:56,879 --> 00:06:00,839 form and void, and darkness was on the face of 98 00:06:00,879 --> 00:06:03,759 the deep, and the spirit of God moved upon the 99 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:04,759 face of the waters. 100 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: And God said, let there be light. And there was light. 101 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: And God saw the light that it was good. And 102 00:06:13,319 --> 00:06:16,759 God divided the light from the darkness. And God called 103 00:06:16,759 --> 00:06:20,800 the light day, and the darkness he called night. And 104 00:06:20,879 --> 00:06:26,000 the evening and the morning were the first day. C. S. 105 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:30,160 Lewis in his Narnia series, he has this image that 106 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,000 in fact, the great lion Aslan sang the world into being. 107 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,319 And this is the analogy that I want you to 108 00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:40,439 maintain in your mind. As we go through the days 109 00:06:40,439 --> 00:06:44,639 of creation. You will see that all of the discussion 110 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,360 about creation in Genesis one and two is really something 111 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,600 like variations on a theme. God presents a theme at 112 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,879 the outset and then plays with that theme all through 113 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:00,680 the description of creation and gives us variation on the 114 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,639 first pattern that He established at the beginning. Now, of course, 115 00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:08,480 unlike our musical experiences, that theme is not just. 116 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:11,439 Speaker 2: A theme, It is the theme. It is the pattern. 117 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,199 Speaker 3: Right, He's describing the very pattern of the cosmos itself, 118 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,560 and as he goes through the days, you will see 119 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,000 how that pattern. 120 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: Is repeated and is played with. 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,079 Speaker 3: A good way of thinking about this when you look 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,519 at the image that God describes. The first terms of 123 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,720 the pattern are three. In the beginning, God created the 124 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:40,720 heaven and the earth. So you have three patterns. You 125 00:07:40,759 --> 00:07:44,319 have God, you have Heaven, you have earth, and you 126 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:45,879 have the idea that it is. 127 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: In the beginning. 128 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:49,439 Speaker 3: One of the ways to translate in the beginning is 129 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,560 in the arch or in the head. Another way of 130 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,920 thinking about it in the principle is another good way 131 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:00,160 of describing what it is that we're talking about. And 132 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:04,800 if we understand a principle right as something like an 133 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,399 invisible pattern or an invisible prince, let's say impetus that 134 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,240 then yields motion. This is really the way to understand it. 135 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,160 So God traces these two opposites. And what I want 136 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:19,879 you to imagine in your mind, just to give you 137 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,639 an image in the relationship to what we're doing, is 138 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,160 to think of something like a string that is pulled 139 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:29,120 across the surface of the waters. So you have above 140 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,360 and you have below, and there's this taut string that 141 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,639 is pulled on the surface of the deep. And you 142 00:08:35,759 --> 00:08:39,279 already have repeated if you want to hear, you already 143 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,000 have repeated the pattern. So God says heaven Earth. Then 144 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:49,240 he says spirit void. So he's doing this moving up 145 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,320 and down, showing you what's above and what's below. 146 00:08:53,639 --> 00:08:56,759 Speaker 2: And then God says, let there be light. 147 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: And a good way of thinking about is to really 148 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,720 imagine the light like a hand that comes down and 149 00:09:02,759 --> 00:09:07,360 plucks the string. And then things start to move up 150 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:10,759 and down right and start to dance from heaven to earth, 151 00:09:10,799 --> 00:09:14,399 from Earth to heaven, and there's this exchange that happens 152 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,000 between what is above and what is below, and the 153 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,399 musicality of it is a good way of understanding. It's 154 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:24,840 a rhythm, right, It's a it's a poem, it's in verse. 155 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,639 Speaker 2: It has a structure to it, right, It. 156 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: Is a beautiful dance that is being started at the 157 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:39,279 beginning of creation. And so God then again does it again. 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,120 He says, God calls the light, day, calls it darkness, night, 159 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:48,799 and the evening and the morning was the first day. 160 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:52,279 And so he does it three times in the verse. 161 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,159 If you've noticed it more, I think it's four. So 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,480 he says heaven and earth. Read then he says spirit 163 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,519 and void, right, light and dark and day and night. 164 00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:09,120 So these two opposites that are now going to start 165 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:13,159 to play with each other. And you could realize that 166 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:17,840 ultimately all of this is the same. It's all about 167 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:21,080 the relationship between heaven and earth. And you can almost, 168 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,120 like I said, imagine or imagine it again like a 169 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,840 like a like a stone that falls into a puddle, 170 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:28,919 and then things start to move back and forth, and 171 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,840 these concentric rings start to flow out into the waters, 172 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:41,759 and it gives us this beautiful, meaningful pattern. And so 173 00:10:41,799 --> 00:10:43,480 what we're going to see in the rest of the 174 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,960 days is we're going to see. 175 00:10:45,799 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: That play out. And one of the. 176 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,519 Speaker 3: Problems with a principle and one of the problems with 177 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,240 a pattern is that often it appears very small. Think 178 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:57,519 of a seed is a good way of thinking about it, 179 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,399 something that you don't totally understand what it is yet, 180 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:02,799 because when you see a seed, you're like, what's this 181 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:03,360 little dot? 182 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: I don't know what this is. 183 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 3: It's just the point, right, just this one little, uh 184 00:11:08,639 --> 00:11:13,039 little place. And it's only when it starts to develop 185 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,960 itself and then it starts to take root and starts 186 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,080 to gather the earth in itself, and then it starts 187 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,960 to play itself out, it starts to reveal what it 188 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,639 is really. And that's what I think you see in 189 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,000 this in this first verse. You know when God says 190 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,879 heaven and earth, spirit and void, what is he talking about? 191 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,519 I don't know what that is. 192 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: I don't know what that means. 193 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,799 Speaker 3: And it's only as we move forward that we're going 194 00:11:39,360 --> 00:12:02,399 to see its song. 195 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: Its sons, so so. 196 00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:07,799 Speaker 6: U S speak, so speak. 197 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 7: So as not sit. 198 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:31,759 Speaker 8: Side, said s. 199 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:36,039 Speaker 2: S. 200 00:13:36,720 --> 00:14:32,759 Speaker 9: S S speaks. 201 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:32,679 Speaker 10: Schools So. 202 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 11: Greeting's friends, cosmographers, fellow symbolists. This is Joshua from Eighth 203 00:15:25,919 --> 00:15:28,879 Day Books, inviting you to join me and studying a 204 00:15:29,039 --> 00:15:34,039 remarkable cosmic coincidence. Why is it that writers, philosophers, and 205 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,120 prophets from many times and places have all told us 206 00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:42,919 that contemplating the night sky makes our own souls similarly 207 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,639 more beautiful and more ordered. Hebrew and Hindu, Greek and Chinese. 208 00:15:48,039 --> 00:15:52,000 They've all told us that looking up is the same 209 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,440 as looking in, and that we are as much citizens 210 00:15:55,519 --> 00:16:00,480 of the sky as we are of earth. We will 211 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,039 be looking at Pythagorea and folk tales, biblical wisdom, literature, 212 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:08,600 and contemporary novelists to ask these questions. It'll be a 213 00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:13,360 challenging course, but not technical. I teach medieval philosophy and 214 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,080 Renaissance literature, and I'm condensing a year's worth of information 215 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,840 into a few wonder filled hours. Please join me for 216 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,039 some Plato, some poetry, and some practical skygazing, all to 217 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:28,919 help us pursue the art of imitating Heaven. See you 218 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:29,919 very soon. 219 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: So when you read the First Day and you pay attention, 220 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:43,919 you realize that. 221 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: In the way that the world is being described, we're 222 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,360 really using deep, deep. 223 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,639 Speaker 3: Analogies, because in some ways what is being described on 224 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,679 Day one is something that doesn't completely exist yet, at 225 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:59,480 least not the way that we think things exist with mass, 226 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:06,359 body and form, I've never experienced an absolute void. I'm 227 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,680 sure you have never experienced an absolute void either. We 228 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,920 experience relative voids. We experience as places where meaning breaks down. 229 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,559 We experience as places where particularity seems to be screaming 230 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,720 in a way that is making the unity of something questionable. 231 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 2: We experience a moment when things cease to make sense 232 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,759 and are a puzzle and our confusion. 233 00:17:28,279 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 3: So we never can experience the great metaphysical void that 234 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,359 is described in Genesis in the first verse of Genesis, 235 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,200 but we do experience a relative version of that of 236 00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:40,759 that reality. 237 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,839 Speaker 2: And it's the same with meaning. 238 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: We never experience pure meaning, or rarely, maybe the saints 239 00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:51,799 experience the pure light, but in general we experience a 240 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,480 mitigated light. We experience a light that is refracted in 241 00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:59,480 all the things around us. We experience meaning in their examples. 242 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,599 And so the pure spirit that is hovering above the 243 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,839 waters and the light, the divine light that comes down, 244 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,039 as well as the void that is below, are in 245 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,039 some ways beyond the creation that we can deal with 246 00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:16,440 in everyday life, but they are nonetheless the pattern. They 247 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,440 are that first string of the bow right, that first 248 00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:23,440 beginning of the great dance, or the vibration of the 249 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:24,319 musical pattern. 250 00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:28,279 Speaker 2: So really that's the way to kind of understand Day 251 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,240 two and so, and God said, let there. 252 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: Be a fearament in the midst of the waters, and 253 00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:37,880 let it divide the waters from the waters. And God 254 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,880 made the fearmament and divided the waters which were under 255 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,680 the fuarament from the waters which were above the fearmament. 256 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:47,480 And it was so, and God called the fear moment heaven, 257 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:50,359 and the evening and the morning were the second day. 258 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:55,279 That is a very strange description for modern people to 259 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,759 understand what exactly is going on. And I think that 260 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:02,680 us as modern people, the best way of understanding what 261 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,680 is happening is that God is putting in the earth, 262 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:12,640 would say, another version of the world, a smaller one, 263 00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:16,119 a more particular one, one that is closer to our 264 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,160 capacity to experience it. So, notice that God is repeating 265 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,160 the pattern from the beginning again. And so he told 266 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,960 us that the waters are the earth, and then in 267 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,559 those waters he creates a new heaven. And then he 268 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,480 creates a new Earth inside the waters. And he separates 269 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,839 the waters from themselves in order to represent or to 270 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:44,079 recast the pattern that was at the beginning, but a 271 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,119 pattern which is so far from us and so pure 272 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,720 that you know, we don't have access to it. So 273 00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:55,039 we can understand that this second division, right, this division 274 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,599 the fear Moment and the Earth, is much closer. It's 275 00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:02,880 already a particularization of this great duality. And it is 276 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:08,079 now in this second heaven and second Earth that the 277 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,160 things that we now recognize as being meaningful, the things 278 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,160 that we recognize as having purpose, the things we recognize 279 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,599 also as being puzzling and confusing, will appear in this 280 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:22,759 second division, in the second division of the heaven and 281 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:23,160 the Earth. 282 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: But like I said, this is going to continue. 283 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:30,599 Speaker 3: Every single day you will see will repeat again this 284 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:34,920 pattern of division and this pattern of relationship between that 285 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:41,519 division and between the opposites. So for centuries now there 286 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,480 have been some pesky anthropologists and pesky theologians who have 287 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:53,240 told us that this story is either an ancient myth 288 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,319 that is using all the myths of the that is, 289 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,160 using the myths of the other cultures, that it is, 290 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,039 you know, just another gloss on the ancient mythical prototype, 291 00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:04,319 and therefore we shouldn't take. 292 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 2: It too seriously. 293 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: You'd see it as just something that is very old 294 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:10,319 and dusty, and the other, on other hand, we have 295 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,480 people that have told us, no, what's described here is 296 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,960 scientifically exactly what has happened in that at the. 297 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: Beginning of time. In those two groups, they strangely stand against. 298 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 3: Each other, one desperately holding on to the importance of 299 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,480 the text but sadly trying to issue the meaning from it, 300 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,799 and the other seeing all these meanings in it but relativizing. 301 00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:36,759 Speaker 2: The importance of the text. 302 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,079 Speaker 3: And I think that this text is one of the 303 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,279 most powerful stories that have ever been written, because they're true. 304 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,519 Speaker 2: Until now. You know, I have used very lofty. 305 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,519 Speaker 3: Images and very kind of metaphysical looking images, and people 306 00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:59,119 will say we have, But the Hebrews, Jonathan, they were 307 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,279 practical people. There were people that lived, you know, they 308 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:04,920 were not philosophers in the way that we think of them. 309 00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,759 And that is absolutely true. And it is now in 310 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,160 day three and in day four that you are going 311 00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:18,240 to start to see how real and how practical this is. 312 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,960 And at the same time you are going to see 313 00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:24,519 how inevitable that first. 314 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: Description I gave you. 315 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 3: If you've been questioning me until now, and you've been 316 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,200 thinking that I'm glossing this text by talking about heaven 317 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,480 and Earth. It's in day three and in day four 318 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,599 that you really see how it plays out. So day 319 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,599 three and God said, let the waters under the heaven 320 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,440 be gathered together into one place, and let the dry 321 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:51,640 land appear. And it was so, and God called the 322 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,960 dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters 323 00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,960 called the sea. And God saw that it was good. 324 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:06,160 Now you notice, right, God is doing it again. He's 325 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,839 separating two aspects of the world, separating Earth from the sea. 326 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,240 What's the difference between the Earth and the sea. It's 327 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,000 very simply. Earth is higher than the sea. 328 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 2: It just is. It has to be. 329 00:23:23,079 --> 00:23:25,079 Speaker 3: There's no other way. The Earth has to be above 330 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:27,720 the sea, sea has to be below it. It's just 331 00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:31,359 how it works. And so he is separating the land 332 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,960 and the sea. And now the land will become heaven 333 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:39,720 or the sea will become an image of heaven or 334 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:44,359 that which is below. Right, it repeats that duality. This 335 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:48,119 is where you start to see that the descriptions they're 336 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,440 not the reductionist descriptions of modern science and kind of 337 00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:58,160 alienated cosmological descriptions of satellite floating and quasars and all 338 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:58,759 of that stuff. 339 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: Nonetheless very real. It is. 340 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 3: If you do not, if you're not able to distinguish 341 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:11,960 the difference of level between earth and sea, you will 342 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,119 die called drowning. 343 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: Right, It's quite simple. 344 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 3: And there is a reality to the earth and to 345 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,640 the possibility of the Earth of gathering itself into these 346 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,519 places that in our experience connect Heaven and Earth together. 347 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: So think of it as a fractal. 348 00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:34,599 Speaker 3: You have now the heaven above you have the Earth, 349 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,799 and that's a duality, and then the earth plays the 350 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,119 role of Heaven towards the sea. 351 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,759 Speaker 2: And that type of opposition will continue. 352 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 3: But if you want, honestly, if you want to have 353 00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:49,960 a little experience of heaven, you can go up a mountain. 354 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,839 It actually works because one of the things that happens 355 00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:56,000 when you're at the bottom of a mountain is that 356 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,960 everything is very particular, everything is very granular. You can 357 00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:03,960 start even by putting your face on the ground. If 358 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,839 you want, lie down on the ground and look around. 359 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,440 You see what you see. 360 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 2: Maybe you'll see a bug or two, maybe a few 361 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,599 blades of grass. But what happens when you go up. 362 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 3: When you go up, all of a sudden, that granularity 363 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,359 starts to fuse together. And then you start to see 364 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,400 things come together into patterns, You start to notice things, 365 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000 things start to coalesce. If you go up a mountain, 366 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:31,880 by the time you're up at the top of the mountain, 367 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:36,000 you have the sense that you can see the entire cosmos. 368 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,279 Speaker 2: Because it's all around you. You have this vision. 369 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,279 Speaker 3: You can gather the entire earth and your experience at 370 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,480 that time. It's not the entire earth, relatively the earth, 371 00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:48,319 and you can gather it into one experience. You can 372 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,559 make sense of the entire landscape that stands, that lays 373 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:54,039 itself out around you. Right. 374 00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:55,799 Speaker 2: That's why we love going up. 375 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: That's why we enjoy going up mountains and going up hills, 376 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,720 to have that little experience of things coming together and 377 00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:06,880 all of a sudden seeing seeing creation lay itself out 378 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,799 in its fullness. And like I said, it's very practical 379 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,000 and it's very, very very real. My brother once came 380 00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:15,880 up with this analogy, which is very simple. 381 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 2: One. 382 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 3: We're all standing in a room together and there's one 383 00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:23,960 person who steps up on a chair. That person will 384 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,000 immediately command authority necessarily because he can see everyone. Everybody 385 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,960 can see him. But I can't see everybody around. I 386 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,759 can just see the person next to me. So just 387 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,680 this vision of standing up on a chair is a 388 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:40,880 little glimpse of what it is that Heaven is talking about. 389 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,720 It is this idea of a little, very small one 390 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,119 of what we mean when we say that Christ is 391 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,519 the head and the Church is the body. It's a 392 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,119 little glimpse of why we have this image of God 393 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,680 going revealing himself and giving law at the top of 394 00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:02,680 a mountain. Because law, what's law. They have thought about 395 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,359 what laws. Law is a pattern of behavior. 396 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,039 Speaker 2: That's what law is. 397 00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:13,279 Speaker 3: So it's a way to organize behavior coherently. And that 398 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,799 is really what Heaven is all the time. And what 399 00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,000 does God give Moses at the top of the mountain? 400 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,559 Speaker 2: Gives us two things, gives them two things. He gives 401 00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,920 them the law, and he gives them a pattern for 402 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:23,440 a building. 403 00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: I think that's kind of odd that that's what God 404 00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:28,000 would give Moses at the top of the mountain. 405 00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: But no, that's exactly what it is. 406 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:34,079 Speaker 3: He gives him this pattern, and then they, the Israelites, 407 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:38,640 will gather the earth together and make this building in 408 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,240 the image of the pattern that is above. 409 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,319 Speaker 2: Now, this is where this is. 410 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 3: Going to start to make sense, because the next part 411 00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,200 of this day is the strangest for modern people. 412 00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: I think in the entire layout of the creation aready. 413 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 3: So when God said, let the earth bring forth the 414 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:05,519 herb yielding seed and the fruit, tree yielding fruit after 415 00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:08,799 its kind, whose seed is in itself upon the earth, 416 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,559 and it was so, And the earth brought forth grass 417 00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:17,200 and herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree 418 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:20,880 yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself after his kind. 419 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,519 And God saw that it was good. And the evening 420 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,799 and the morning were the third day. Now, why, for 421 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,480 goodness sake is God creating grass before he created the sun. 422 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:37,039 I'm sure you've heard people who have attacked the creationists 423 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,400 on this front. 424 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,359 Speaker 2: It's a very odd thing. Why would God create grass 425 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,200 before he's created that. 426 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 3: So the only way to understand it is to understand 427 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,799 this play between above and below, between heaven and earth. 428 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:57,079 So in this version of the duality, God starts below 429 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,319 and he creates this multiplicity. And it's super interesting because 430 00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:07,279 we always have this idea that God creates everything. That's 431 00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:11,400 not how the text describes creation. It says he tells 432 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:18,400 the earth bring forth. He's saying, bring forth something on 433 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:23,160 the ground which has being, But will also have in 434 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:25,160 it the pattern. 435 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: So it can continue, so it can reproduce itself. Because 436 00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:32,200 it's an odd phrasing. He says, make herbs with seed 437 00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:35,039 inside and the seed of it to make it of 438 00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:37,480 its kind. What's going on, That's exactly what God is doing. 439 00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 3: God is asking the earth to create variability. Think about 440 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,599 it that way, multiplicity. He's saying, create this, generate this 441 00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:52,039 multiplicity in the constraint that I'm giving, which is this 442 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,559 herb that has seed in it. 443 00:29:54,039 --> 00:29:56,359 Speaker 2: And for it to be good, that's what it has 444 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,720 to have. It has to have seed in it. 445 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 3: It has to have its own pattern inside so that 446 00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:05,720 it can continue this great dance at its own level, 447 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,119 so it can continue to produce. The seed that falls 448 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,400 from above down into the earth, enters the earth, generates 449 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,640 a tree, the tree goes up, the seed falls back, 450 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,680 and you have this beautiful dance of the relationship between 451 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,319 heaven and earth, very practically and actually how plants function. 452 00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:28,079 But also because of what a seed is. There's a seed, 453 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,920 like I said at the beginning, is something like the law. 454 00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:33,920 A seed is something like a pattern without a body 455 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,400 that will find body in the earth. 456 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 8: As said I. 457 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 6: No ic, I see. 458 00:31:26,440 --> 00:32:06,799 Speaker 7: As says, that's say not my soul. 459 00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 12: Sory Wna. 460 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 9: Wanted to bother to decide to. 461 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 7: Mo still now to matures, and. 462 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 8: I'm amama to be. 463 00:32:58,079 --> 00:32:58,119 Speaker 7: On. 464 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,359 Speaker 3: Let there be lights the firmament of the heavens, to 465 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,160 divide the day from the night, and let them be 466 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:45,160 for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 467 00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:47,839 and let them be for lights in the firmament of 468 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,960 the heavens, to give light upon the earth. And it 469 00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:55,359 was so God made great, two great lights, the greater 470 00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,160 light to rule the day and the lesser light to 471 00:33:58,359 --> 00:33:59,039 rule the knight. 472 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,039 Speaker 2: He may the stars also. 473 00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 3: God set them in the fearment of the heavens to 474 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,639 give light on the earth and to rule over the 475 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,679 day and over the night, and to divide the light 476 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,360 from the darkness. And God saw that it was good, 477 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,159 and the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 478 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:29,119 So again, for the last few hundred years, we have 479 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,199 been told that these things we see up in the skies, 480 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,559 they're you know, balls of flaming gas. They're dead rocks 481 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,400 that reflect the light. That the idea of astrology is 482 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,719 completely stupid and super fit and superstitious and ridiculous. I 483 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,119 would like you to reconsider that. I'm not saying go 484 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,519 check your horse, go tomorrow, that is ridiculous. 485 00:34:56,119 --> 00:34:57,199 Speaker 2: But notice what's happening. 486 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,079 Speaker 3: So God the day before and he creates this multiplicity 487 00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:06,119 on the earth, right, this multiplicity in the darkness, that 488 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,880 all has its seed. It's almost like it's just bursting, right, 489 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,360 It's like this potential that he's here on the ground. 490 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:13,599 Speaker 2: And then the God goes up. 491 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 3: Then he starts the same pattern reflecting the earth up 492 00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:19,519 into the heavens. 493 00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 2: Have you ever thought that the stars in the heavens 494 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:23,880 are like the grass of the field. 495 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,199 Speaker 3: Have you ever had that intuition that the infinite number 496 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,119 of points of light in the heavens are like this 497 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,760 explosion of glory? Right, this multiplicity that is all up 498 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,360 there in the heavens. But what's the difference between the 499 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,679 one we see up there the one we see below. 500 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,840 The one we see below is dark? It is naturally 501 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,880 in the darkness. I always tell people to remember that, 502 00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,880 Like if you dig a hole and go inside and 503 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,840 cover yourself, and you'll notice there's a little light there. 504 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 2: Now up above of God sets a clock. Basically, what 505 00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:05,760 he's doing, he's setting a great. 506 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 3: Quantity of lights that are above in the heavens, and 507 00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:15,280 that move in a regular fashion, and they rule over 508 00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:20,480 the earth, and they rule over the seasons, they rule 509 00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:23,039 over the days, they rule over the nights, and so 510 00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:26,480 you don't have to you don't have to go very 511 00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:31,519 far to realize that they're providing the pattern. If they're 512 00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:34,599 the stars in the heavens, the sun and the moon, 513 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,400 they are providing the regularity of the pattern what happens 514 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,039 down here. It's not that it's completely unpatterned, obviously, like 515 00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:44,199 I said, all of these things are mitigated. 516 00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: But it's a lot messier down here. 517 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 3: The patterns that are here, they're harder to discern, right, 518 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,360 You almost need some insight from above to be able 519 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,599 to kind of see what's going on down here. But 520 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,079 the clock up here that is regular, So you know, 521 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,440 windspring is if on that day it's hotter than it 522 00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:05,679 usually is, you know, when winter is. 523 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,079 Speaker 2: Even if there's some weird. 524 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 3: Weather phenomena or something that happens that doesn't seem to 525 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,679 be in tune with what it is that the stars 526 00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:18,079 are saying, this is the clock. Notice then again, how God, 527 00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:23,440 even in the heavens on the earth, he says, the 528 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,360 grass and the seed, so he separates right. Even in 529 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,039 the earth he does the separation. Now he does the 530 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,960 same in the heavens. So he says, there are two 531 00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:36,000 great lights. There is the Sun, there is the moon. 532 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,639 The Sun is a pure light, the moon is a 533 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:44,400 mitigated light. If the moon is a changing light moves 534 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,079 from waxes in wangs right from dark to light. And 535 00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:52,880 so it does become exactly this image of heaven and earth. 536 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960 But now in the heavens themselves, this duality is set 537 00:37:56,039 --> 00:38:00,280 up as the pure light and the reflective light are 538 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,960 the pure light and the mitigated changing light. 539 00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:06,679 Speaker 2: And so you can see that. 540 00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 3: It's the only reason why God would create grass before 541 00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:14,239 it creates light, is simply to remind us of the 542 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,280 meaning of these things, simply to help us understand how 543 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,559 we experience them in the world, how we experience grass, 544 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:23,119 how we experience the dirt and the roots and all 545 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:25,920 of that, and how we experience these lights in the heaven. 546 00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 2: But the giant clock that directs our days and our 547 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:30,320 nights day five. 548 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,199 Speaker 3: And God said, let the waters bring forth abundantly the 549 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,559 moving creature that hath life and foul, that may fly 550 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,599 above the earth in the open fearament of heaven, and 551 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,360 God created great whales and every living creature that moveth 552 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,199 which the waters brought forth abundantly after their kind, and 553 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,760 every wing fowl after its kind. 554 00:38:54,639 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 2: After his kind. 555 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,119 Speaker 3: And God saw that it was good, and God blessed them, saying, 556 00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:03,039 be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the sea, 557 00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:07,400 and let foul multiply in the earth. And the evening 558 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,079 and the morning were fifth day. So hopefully at this 559 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,760 point you've entered into the dance. Hopefully at this point 560 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,559 you've now started to move your hips to the rhythm 561 00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:24,920 of this story, and you're starting to see this beautiful 562 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,159 swaying that is part of the general pattern that God 563 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:35,559 is setting forth. Now, God creates beings that have motion. 564 00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:42,280 They create beings that are closer to his image, not 565 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,000 yet in his but closer to his image. They are 566 00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:50,880 not locked to the earth like the grass, They're not 567 00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:55,960 locked up in the heavens, but rather they move freely. 568 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 2: But again, on the same day, what does he do. 569 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 3: It starts by making the fish below and the birds above. 570 00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:10,360 It starts by creating what is down there and what 571 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:10,920 is above. 572 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 2: And they say whales. 573 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 7: I hate that. 574 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,639 Speaker 2: They say whales, not whales. We all know what it is. 575 00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,280 It's monsters. We know that's what God creates on that day. 576 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:24,599 Speaker 3: God creates the monsters on that day because the monsters 577 00:40:24,679 --> 00:40:28,719 are closer to the earth, right, because monsters are the 578 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,199 things that you don't know what they are, right. They're 579 00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:35,920 the lurking chaos that can come and ivar you. They're 580 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,199 different from the other animals because most of the other 581 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,320 animals were able to rule over. Those are harder to 582 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,559 rule over because they kind of come up and swallow. 583 00:40:44,599 --> 00:40:47,079 You have a powerful example of that in the story 584 00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:50,800 of Jonah. But you can see clearly that God is 585 00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:55,639 continuing his beautiful pattern. And what we're going to see 586 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,960 is we're going to start to feel again that this 587 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,559 is getting closer. It's almost as if Heaven and Earth 588 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:07,519 are in a romantic relationship. It's as if it's the 589 00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:10,079 song of songs here and there is a call and 590 00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:13,280 a response, and there is a action from below and 591 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,159 an action from above. And what we're going to start 592 00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:18,960 to see is that this is coming closer, closer towards 593 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,320 a union of that first separation that God established at 594 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,239 the outset. And again you can see that just like 595 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,039 God said to the plants, he sang similar things to 596 00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:32,800 the You notice he said again, he said, it's the 597 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,920 waters that produce these The waters produce them. But he 598 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,000 asks one thing that they be produced in their kind, 599 00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,679 that they have the seed inside them, just like what 600 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,559 he said about the plants, that they are coherent beings 601 00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:52,719 that are capable of reproducing their pattern over a time. 602 00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:55,760 That's what he means when he says he wants beings 603 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,880 of their kind. He doesn't want just a chaotic jumble 604 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,039 of things that are always changed. He wants there to 605 00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:03,440 be order in the creation. 606 00:42:09,280 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 10: Louise suss. 607 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 9: Song no. 608 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 10: So so yeah so. 609 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 7: Sun who sat. 610 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 12: So in the. 611 00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:22,679 Speaker 7: Song, So. 612 00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:34,280 Speaker 10: Let's s. 613 00:44:35,920 --> 00:45:52,599 Speaker 2: Some fus so. 614 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,320 Speaker 3: As the days progress and as the pattern starts to 615 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,840 become more explicit and more visible, but you realize is 616 00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:03,840 that what is being described is really the pattern of 617 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,400 the world. It really is the pattern of reality. But 618 00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:11,000 it is the pattern of reality in meaning. That's maybe 619 00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:14,199 the easiest way for us to understand that today. It's 620 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,800 the way that things are meaningful. It's the way that 621 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,920 things have purpose. It's the way that things are recognized 622 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,360 as having relationships with each other. And when we look 623 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,719 at there are mythical description of the origin of the cosmos. 624 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,000 If you think of the Big Bang, it should be 625 00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:36,400 not that difficult to help us as Christians realize that 626 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,480 it is an insufficient description because it doesn't contain meaning. 627 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,400 It doesn't tell us how to be, or how to live, 628 00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:48,000 or how to be with each other. It doesn't give 629 00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:51,119 any image of what our relationship is to these lights 630 00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:53,360 in the sky, or what our relationship is to these 631 00:46:53,440 --> 00:47:00,239 animals around us. Those descriptions are in this text. That's 632 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,760 why it is a better version. I have nothing against 633 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:04,280 the Big Bang. 634 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 2: It's fine. That's not my first story. It's kind of downstream. 635 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 3: This is my first story, because this story is far 636 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,360 greater and includes much more reality. 637 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,320 Speaker 2: In it than the description that we have in the 638 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,039 scientific process. 639 00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:26,199 Speaker 3: So day six, and God said, let the earth bring 640 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:31,039 forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping thing, 641 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,639 and beast of the earth after his kind. 642 00:47:34,119 --> 00:47:34,679 Speaker 2: And it was so. 643 00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:38,159 Speaker 3: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, 644 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,920 and cattle after their kind, and everything that creepeth upon 645 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,960 the earth after his kind. And God saw that it 646 00:47:46,119 --> 00:47:53,039 was good. Now again God asks to generate multiplicity. God says, 647 00:47:53,199 --> 00:47:57,719 generate these beasts. But here's the constraint. Here's the way 648 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,280 I want you to do it. I want it to 649 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,760 be creatures that are of their kind, creatures that have 650 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,679 a name, right, not yet Adam will do that, but 651 00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:08,440 implicit name, let's. 652 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 2: Say, creatures that have meaning in them. 653 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 3: And this is really where to me, it's one of 654 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,960 my favorite parts of the Creation story because this is 655 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,960 where you really see. The way it's translated is kind 656 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,559 of funny. It makes you wonder, why is it saying 657 00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:21,079 that right? 658 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 2: Because it says. 659 00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 3: It says beasts of the earth, cattle and things that 660 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,880 creep on the ground. 661 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 2: What an odd categorization of animals. 662 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 3: I don't think any biologists today would want to categorize 663 00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:43,559 the plethora of animals into these categories. And I don't 664 00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:45,119 like the way it's translated that well, because the best 665 00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:48,679 way of understanding it is that God creates the wild animals. 666 00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 2: God creates the same animals. 667 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,800 Speaker 3: Then God creates the animals that are creeping below under 668 00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:00,400 the earth about meaning about Heaven and Earth, the same 669 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,440 description as when he creates the monsters and the fish. 670 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:05,599 Speaker 2: And the birds. 671 00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 3: He's showing us that there are animals that you eat, 672 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,280 and there are animals. 673 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:13,360 Speaker 2: That eat you. 674 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 3: Those two are not the same. If you treat them 675 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,280 the same, then you're in serious trouble. So there are 676 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,639 animals over which you rule naturally, that are in some 677 00:49:23,679 --> 00:49:27,559 ways extension of the meaning of humans. These are the 678 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,199 same animals. These are the cattle, These are the sheep. 679 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,159 These are the animals that exist in the kind of 680 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,719 cohabitation with humans. And then there are the animals that 681 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,159 are dangerous for you. So notice it's again a description 682 00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:43,840 of a separation or the relationship between heaven and earth. 683 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,679 Here's these animals that bring chaos. Here are these animals 684 00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:51,840 that participate in order. And here are the animals that 685 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,920 obviously not dead yet, but we are dead, so we 686 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,039 can see what it means. These are the animals that 687 00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,920 can eat all of you at the end, when it's over. 688 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,559 These dark things hiding under the ground, all these creepy 689 00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:08,599 crawlers like vermin, they can eat all of you. 690 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,599 Speaker 2: That's why those are the. 691 00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:16,119 Speaker 3: Categories, because they're categories of meaning. They're not biological categories 692 00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:20,119 the way that modern people do taxonomy. They are categories 693 00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:25,599 of meaning. How humans engage in the world. And God said, 694 00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:29,119 let us make man in our image after our likeness, 695 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,320 and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, 696 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,239 and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, 697 00:50:35,639 --> 00:50:38,440 and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing 698 00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:42,159 that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in 699 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,239 his own image, in the image of God. Created he 700 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,400 him male and female, created he them. And God blessed them. 701 00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:55,519 And God said unto them, be fruitful and multiply, and 702 00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:59,039 replenish the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over 703 00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:00,960 the fish of the sea, the fowl of the air, 704 00:51:01,199 --> 00:51:03,800 and over every living thing that moves upon the earth. 705 00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:07,840 And God said, behold, I have given you every herb 706 00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,519 bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth, 707 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,440 and every tree which is the fruit of a tree 708 00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:17,960 yielding seed. To you it shall be for food for meat. 709 00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:21,320 And to every beasts of the earth, and to every 710 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,079 file of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon 711 00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:26,800 the earth wherein there's life. I have given every green 712 00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:28,039 herb for food. 713 00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:28,679 Speaker 2: And it was so. 714 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,199 Speaker 3: And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, 715 00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:36,400 it was very good. And the evening and the morning 716 00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:41,199 were six day So say Maximuth the Confessor, one of 717 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,559 my favorite theologians, makes a big deal about the difference 718 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,039 I haven't mentioned it until now that God everything that 719 00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:55,159 he creates, he also evaluates. So he says, to the earth, 720 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,440 bring forth, and then God judges. We don't like to 721 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,280 think of it as judging, but that's what God does. 722 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,239 And he says it is good, right, and he notices, 723 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,559 he sees the meaning in it, he sees the purpose. 724 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,039 Speaker 2: He sees that it is good. 725 00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:11,519 Speaker 3: But it is only here that God says that it 726 00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:17,039 is very good, because now heaven and earth have been joined. 727 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,920 Heaven and earth have been brought together in the image 728 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:29,280 of God. And of course here it is intimated, but 729 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,159 it's really in the next chapter. Writ it's in Genesis 730 00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:36,079 two that it's very clear, because in Genesis too there's 731 00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:40,000 a rehashing of the creation of man. And what God does, 732 00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:45,679 if you remember right, he gathers the dust and then 733 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,840 he puts heaven inside, lows his spirit into the dust. 734 00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:57,440 Your thought about what dust is, Dust is one of 735 00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:01,440 the closest things to chaos that we can experience. Dust 736 00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:04,000 is basically a bunch of things that have nothing in 737 00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:09,599 common with each other. They are residues and little bits 738 00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:12,800 of things that don't have any. 739 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,199 Speaker 2: Type of unity. So the earth that he's taking right. 740 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,320 It's the secondary earth. 741 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,679 Speaker 3: But you can see that it's also in a secret way, 742 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,079 or in a hidden way, or in a kind of 743 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,480 analogical way. It's that void that was right there at 744 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,119 the beginning, bringing it up. And now he's putting that spirit, 745 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,199 remember that spirit that was hovering above the waters at 746 00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:34,119 the beginning of the story. 747 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:35,800 Speaker 2: That spirit. 748 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,840 Speaker 3: He puts it inside. And now the human becomes image 749 00:53:42,119 --> 00:53:48,519 of God. And then the pattern repeats. We don't see 750 00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:51,760 it right here, but I mean the pattern repeats, because 751 00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:56,159 then he makes them male and female, and he makes 752 00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:58,519 them again although they are one, although there are this 753 00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:01,280 joining of union in earth, of heaven and earth, they 754 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,719 are also participating in their own dance. They will also 755 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,840 be an image of heaven and earth, and they will 756 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,800 also be the image of a head and a body. 757 00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:15,119 This interplay will continue as humans are fruitful and multiply 758 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,480 on the earth. Not only is God describing the pattern 759 00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,679 of the world that we experience every day, but is 760 00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:27,519 it is the image of Christ Day seven. Thus the 761 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:31,480 heavens and the earth were finished, and all the hosts 762 00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:34,719 of them. And on the seventh day God ended his 763 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,360 work which he had made, and he rested on the 764 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,679 seventh day from all his work which he had made. 765 00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:46,800 God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because that 766 00:54:47,039 --> 00:54:50,199 in it he had rested from all his work which 767 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,039 God created and made. 768 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,320 Speaker 2: The Sabbath is a very mysterious day. 769 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,079 Speaker 3: It's probably one of the hardest things to understand scripture, 770 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,559 especially as Christians. But we have this image of Christ 771 00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:13,239 dying on the Sabbath, we realize that what is this 772 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:14,880 rest that God is talking about? 773 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:19,079 Speaker 2: For me? 774 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,159 Speaker 3: And this is now very much my own speculation or 775 00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:25,639 my own meditations on it. I think the way that 776 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,239 I can see into some of the mysteries of the Sabbath. 777 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,800 Speaker 2: Is that God is also revealing to us that. 778 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,199 Speaker 3: This creation, although it is an image of Him, although 779 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,559 it is a great engagement with him, it's not God. 780 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 2: I mean that is that God is still beyond this. 781 00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:54,320 Speaker 3: God is still has a moment of distancing from creation, 782 00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,760 not because he doesn't love creation, because he loves creation, 783 00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,280 because he is in some ways enabling our freedom, but 784 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,960 also because he wants to remind us that all the 785 00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:10,920 things down here that you know, they're not him. And 786 00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:14,239 so there is a day that is set to the 787 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,920 memory of that reality, which is a day because you know, 788 00:56:19,519 --> 00:56:24,360 now that you understand this, you realize that work is 789 00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:30,639 something like law that is manifesting itself on the earth. Right, 790 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:32,840 you can kind of see it now. So you have 791 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,159 a pattern, a purpose, and then you engage it, right, 792 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,239 and you bring together the things that are earthly, you 793 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:40,000 gather them. 794 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,599 Speaker 2: In that pattern, and you reveal the world. That's what 795 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,159 God is doing. 796 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,159 Speaker 3: That's also what we do when we work, when we 797 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,400 make things, when we imitate God in that way. 798 00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:54,360 Speaker 2: But to always remember that that is insufficient, it's not everything. 799 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,360 That there is a mystery that lies beyond. 800 00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,440 Speaker 3: Right, there is a secret that is before them of 801 00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:03,480 the of the Great bo uh and uh and I 802 00:57:03,559 --> 00:57:05,880 think that that's the mystery that that some of the 803 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,599 saints are able to enter into. So uh So I 804 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:16,400 hope this was this was a little useful play through 805 00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:18,960 the seven days. I hope that it was something that 806 00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:23,199 will help you at least meditate on this in the future. 807 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 2: Uh. This, like I said, it is it is really. 808 00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:27,960 Speaker 3: One of my favorite texts, not just in scripture, but 809 00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:30,559 really I think it's one of the most powerful texts. 810 00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 2: And I really I've also only skimmed it. You know, 811 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:35,519 there's so much more. 812 00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:38,599 Speaker 3: There's so much more power in in that, in that text, 813 00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:42,079 and it's worth at this time especially to not be 814 00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:46,320 ashamed of that story, all right, and to not to 815 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,280 not back down from people who would market, people who 816 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,400 would tell us that it's a ridiculous ancient myth, because 817 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,960 it is the best description of the world and its 818 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,039 structure that has ever been told. 819 00:57:59,320 --> 01:04:24,880 Speaker 13: So thinking, if you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please 820 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,559 go to the Symbolic world dot com website and see 821 01:04:27,679 --> 01:04:29,119 how you can support what we're doing. 822 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,679 Speaker 2: There are multiple subscriber tiers with perks. 823 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,400 Speaker 3: There are apparel and books to purchase, So go to 824 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,320 the Symbolic World dot com and thank you for your support.