1 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:26,399 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show that You 2 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,280 Can't Be Serious Podcast. We are here today with a 3 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,000 very special episode. It is Indiana Jones and the Ten 4 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:38,119 Commandments of a proper sequel. 5 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,359 Speaker 2: We have with us today our good buddy from the 6 00:00:40,439 --> 00:00:43,039 film by podcast, Jeff Johnson. Jeff, how you doing, man. 7 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 3: Hiy, I'm doing great, guys. Thank you for having me 8 00:00:46,359 --> 00:00:47,719 over to have this conversation. 9 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: Actually, I should have referred to you correctly. I'm sorry 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,439 I didn't interduce you properly. This is Cincinnati, Jeff Johnson. 11 00:00:56,359 --> 00:00:59,359 To my right here is Arkansas d Graves. 12 00:00:59,439 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: Have you heard of me? 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: Not Arkansas, Dave Rubah, Arkansas Di Graves. And then I, 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,079 of course am Oklahoma Jason Colden. 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: I don't think anything sounds as good as Indiana. 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,079 Speaker 3: No, it doesn't. You can't beat you can't beat that one. 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Although Cincinnati is pretty cool. Cincinnati is be pretty cool. 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,599 Speaker 3: Came down Cincinnati, Johnson, I could go with that. 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,519 Speaker 1: Well, guys, we are here today because there has been 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,959 a recent release of yet another Indiana Jones sequel called 21 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:33,400 Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, and up until 22 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,400 two days ago, for me, the Indiana Jones series was 23 00:01:37,599 --> 00:01:41,359 just a trilogy, that is it. I had seen approximately 24 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:44,879 nine and a half minutes of the Kingdom of the 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,959 Crystal Skull, and I turned it off about ten years 26 00:01:47,959 --> 00:01:51,799 ago or so and have not ventured to see it again. 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,159 But I was forced to buy my wife, and I endured. 28 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:57,439 I endured every bit of it. I paused it to 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,719 see how long it took me before I would have 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,640 normal turned it off. Disney doesn't give you a time stamp, 31 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:04,359 but I can tell you it was before they went 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,280 into the warehouse. 33 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: That's not very long into the movie. 34 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 3: I mean that's. 35 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:12,759 Speaker 1: That's yeah, that is better after that brief So we incepted, 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,439 if you will, if you'll let me verbis that word. 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,319 We incepted this particular episode because Jeff just saw the 38 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,919 most recent movie, Dial of Destiny and engaged mister Colvin 39 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,520 over here in a It's Oklahoma. 40 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,159 Speaker 2: I like Oklahoma. 41 00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: You call him Doctor Paulmdall engaged him in a conversation 42 00:02:35,599 --> 00:02:39,719 about all of the various shortcomings of the newest movie. 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,680 And it was upon that that the realization happened that 44 00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:47,319 we needed to have a list of what you do, 45 00:02:47,319 --> 00:02:50,240 do not do in order to have a good Indiana 46 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:51,199 Jones sequel. 47 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: That's right. Jeff and I were talking. We were like, Okay, 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,039 it doesn't have this, it doesn't have this. It needed this, 49 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,199 it needed that. What the heck are they thinking? We 50 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,960 can see it plain as day. Why can't they figure 51 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,280 this out? It has since been thirty four years since 52 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:11,719 we've had a good Indiana Jones movie, That's absolutely true. 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,520 We started talking about the shortcomings of the Disney era 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,360 Indiana Jones films, and then we start talking about the 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,080 original trilogy and what it got right, we start talking 56 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,360 about like, well, what would it take to make a 57 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:26,439 proper sequel to Indiana Jones. So we're going to start 58 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:28,599 this off. This is actually going to be the Ten 59 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,039 Commandments of an Indiana Jones movie. You either have to 60 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,080 have or can't have these ten items that we have here, right, that's. 61 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: All short at just one point is guilty of breaking 62 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:42,520 all of them there, It is right there. As long 63 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,840 as we're telling the ten Commandments here, might as well 64 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:45,639 keep it biblical. 65 00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:46,759 Speaker 2: He clearly has been. 66 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:50,159 Speaker 3: A Sunday school. Didn't you guys go to Sunday School? 67 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: So the Ten Commandments, which we are about to start. 68 00:03:54,599 --> 00:03:56,919 Before we get going, it's important to Note that both 69 00:03:57,039 --> 00:04:01,719 Jason and Jeff, that is, Cincinnati and Oklahoma, have seen 70 00:04:01,759 --> 00:04:05,039 the most recent Indiana Jones movie. I have not. I 71 00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:08,520 do not know after hearing their impressions whether I'm inclined 72 00:04:08,599 --> 00:04:11,000 to do so. We will do our best to keep 73 00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:16,040 this spoiler free, but something may slipped out of passion. 74 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 2: Cincinnati, Jeff Johnson, are you ready? 75 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:23,519 Speaker 3: I am ready? Let's do this. 76 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:26,519 Speaker 2: Arkansas, D. Graves are you ready? 77 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:28,519 Speaker 1: Fortune and Glory, Kid, Fortune and Glory. 78 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: We know what a careful fellow you guys are, so 79 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:40,319 let's dive in, starting with commandment number one one, thou 80 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:47,199 shalt always have the proper Indiana Jones uniform that includes 81 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,360 a fedora, a leather jacket, a bull whip, and a gun. 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,879 Speaker 3: Pretty simple. One more item though, okay with you? This 83 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,000 is an item that he's going to have more so 84 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,839 than the leather jacket. Cases talk about his shoulder bag, 85 00:05:02,079 --> 00:05:05,360 his purse, Yeah, yeah, his satchel. It's you know, actually 86 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,199 it's actually a Mark seven British gas mask bag. That's 87 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,759 not era appropriate because it's a mid forties, early to 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,759 mid forties and obviously indi'es galivanting around in nineteen thirty 89 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:17,879 four thirty five, thirty six. But yeah, he's got to 90 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,680 have the shoulder bag to put all his true his 91 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:24,160 idols in stones and what hags of sand and all that. Yeah, 92 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,680 his bags of sand, its crosses of Coronado. 93 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:32,439 Speaker 1: So just I saw this today. Apparently when mel Brooks 94 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,800 went to George Lucas to say, Hey, I want to 95 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,639 do a parody of the Star Wars trilogy, and you know, 96 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:39,360 my I'm going to have a guy who's kind of 97 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,519 a Han Solo character. George Lucas said, I will let 98 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,279 you do the parody without complaint, but you cannot dress 99 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:50,240 him like Han Solo. You can't give him that standard 100 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:53,439 on Solo garb. And so what he did instead was 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,759 to dress him like Indiana Jones. Nice, no fedora, but 102 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,279 he did have the leather jacket, the padre, the pants, 103 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,639 but fedora, leather jacket, bull whipping gun. I think we're 104 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,720 all of the features that Fielberg and Lucas discussed whenever 105 00:06:10,759 --> 00:06:14,240 they were building sand castles and Hawaii coming up with 106 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,040 the idea for this movie in the first place. 107 00:06:16,399 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely necessary. Gotta have all those now. Then quick question, Jeff, Yes, 108 00:06:23,519 --> 00:06:31,560 does Indiana Jones carry a gun in the Dial of Destiny. 109 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,120 The fact that you have to think about it, yeah, 110 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:36,000 says it all right. 111 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: I honestly don't recall him carrying one. 112 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:43,319 Speaker 2: I don't think he does. I don't think he's spoilers. 113 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,680 He steals a gun and he and he shoots a guy, 114 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,319 but he used it that guy's own gun against him. 115 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,519 I don't think he carried a gun the entire movie. 116 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 3: No, I don't. I don't recall him ever having one 117 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:56,079 in the movie, now that you think about. 118 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,399 Speaker 2: It, Okay, Now, then does he wearries fedora? 119 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 3: He does? He does indeed have the fedora. 120 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,639 Speaker 2: Does he wear his leather jacket? 121 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: He does have the leather jacket. 122 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,399 Speaker 2: Okay. Does he use the bullwhep? 123 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,279 Speaker 3: He And this is no spoiler because you've seen it 124 00:07:12,279 --> 00:07:14,959 in the trailer. He's he's menacing with the bullwhip. He 125 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,759 you know in the in the Cairo market scene, but 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,000 uh a Morocco scene. But uh, I think that's all 127 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,120 he does with it. If if cracks it a couple 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600 of times, cracks it a few times, you know, get back. Yeah, 129 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,240 I'm our god, I'm our godfather. Yeah. I think that's 130 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,000 the only time you even see him use the whip. 131 00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: I agree, with you. So he really didn't use his gun, 132 00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:36,439 and he really didn't use his bullwhip. So I think 133 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,079 the caveat we should add is that he has to 134 00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:40,040 use these items. 135 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: Right, well, yeah, I mean I think every every film, 136 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:48,279 the first four films, he makes significant use of his accessories, 137 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:49,120 you know, of his. 138 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: Tour, a comedical effect when he tries to use it 139 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:52,240 but can't. 140 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,319 Speaker 2: That's right, that would be I would be good. 141 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,879 Speaker 1: Within the bridge on the rope Bridge at Temple of Doom. 142 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,439 Speaker 2: That's right. Okay, quick question. I don't want to detail 143 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,519 the whole podcast here, but is Harrison Ford mandatory to 144 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:06,959 have an Indiana Jones movie? 145 00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:11,519 Speaker 3: This is a tough question because here's where I'm at 146 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,439 with it. We have fallen in love when you talk 147 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,879 about iconic heroes, and on the silver screen, we're talking Superman, 148 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:24,199 James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Batman. We're in love with these characters. 149 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:28,480 But we've had forty to fifty years to see different 150 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,160 iterations of them. Right. There has always been you know, 151 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:34,799 when someone signs up to play a superhero role, you know, okay, 152 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,720 well we're gonna have them for a good five ten 153 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:39,600 years maybe hopefully, and then someone's they're going to pass 154 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:42,799 the torch. Same thing with James Bond, the thing with Indy. 155 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,320 We've only had Harrison Ford, you know, this entire time. 156 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,879 So where the generations have had an opportunity to move 157 00:08:50,919 --> 00:08:54,639 on with new actors for their beloved characters, the original 158 00:08:54,639 --> 00:08:57,399 generation for Indiana Jones and the current generation for India 159 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,399 Jones and everyone in between, we haven't had that. Ford 160 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,639 is Indiana Jones. So it's a tricky thing to answer, 161 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,600 but in my heart of hearts, I have to say, 162 00:09:06,639 --> 00:09:09,759 he showed us the way, but the character should not 163 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,480 die with him. Give it five years, give it ten years, 164 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:14,639 give it, give us a break, you know, let us 165 00:09:14,759 --> 00:09:20,240 miss the character and process the end of Harrison Ford's run. 166 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:21,039 That's what I would say. 167 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,399 Speaker 1: You guys watched the Indiana Jones chronicles, the Young Indiana 168 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:25,159 Jones chronicles. 169 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: I've seen, yep, some of them. 170 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: Yes, So no Harrison Ford. There, you had Sean Patrick 171 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,080 Flannery as Indiana Jones, as Young Indiana Jones and those 172 00:09:34,519 --> 00:09:36,519 and so I don't know, I haven't seen those movies. 173 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,360 I don't know if that's worthy, but I think as 174 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,360 far as Harrison Ford is concerned, it has to be 175 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Harrison Ford. He's like, nobody else can be Indiana Jones 176 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,759 as long as I'm alive, and so as far as 177 00:09:47,759 --> 00:09:49,120 he's concerned, that's the way it is. 178 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 3: Now. 179 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: If you look at that's not his call to make. 180 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:54,799 Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, if you look at James Bond, 181 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,279 which this was was the inspiration kind of behind this 182 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,279 whole character. Obviously you've up multiple actor changes throughout its history. 183 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,480 Can you do it? Yeah, I think you could do 184 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,240 it if you've got the right guy. But I think 185 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,360 it needs to be an entirely new thing. It's just, 186 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,320 you know, we're starting back over it. It has to 187 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,720 be a reboot, and that's that's where I think that goes. 188 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: I think what you touched on right there, the model 189 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,559 franchise for Indiana Jones movies is the James Bond franchise. 190 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:25,360 What if Sean Connery had held onto that for forty. 191 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 3: Years, it wouldn't be believable. 192 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: It wouldn't be believable. We would have missed out on 193 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,440 a ton of movies and it would have held that 194 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:34,440 character back. So thank you, Harrison Ford. You have given 195 00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:36,759 us one of the most iconic characters of all time. 196 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:38,440 Try to pass the torch. 197 00:10:38,759 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 3: Let's go, thank you for your service. Let's let's see 198 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:42,799 the next generation. 199 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm not ready to kick him off the boat yet. 200 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:48,279 Speaker 2: But wait till you see him in action. 201 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:53,919 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I would say action is a strong word there, Jason. 202 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,679 You know, wait till you see him in the new film. 203 00:10:57,759 --> 00:10:59,639 That's what I would. I think that's a better way 204 00:10:59,639 --> 00:10:59,879 to say. 205 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: In Crystal Skull, he was what sixty five or so, yep, 206 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,799 and still capable of doing a lot of his stunts 207 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:12,720 in action and throwing punches. In this one he looked old. 208 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 3: You know, say what you yeah, say what you about 209 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,360 Crystal Skull. But at least in that film, we had 210 00:11:19,399 --> 00:11:23,840 Indiana Jones running around, Indiana jonesing. He was. He was 211 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:26,480 cracking the whip, he was punching guys out, he was running, 212 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:33,320 he was, he was Indiana Jones. Still the second commandment too, 213 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:37,720 thou shalt not over complicate thy my guffin. So look, 214 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,279 here's the deal. The key to all these films, these 215 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,320 these these amazing movies, is what's motivating him. What is 216 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,320 he going after? It should have historical significance, It should 217 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:49,960 border on the supernatural, and it above and beyond. It 218 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,759 should be. It should be mysterious, right, it should provoke wonder. 219 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,159 Speaker 2: I guess what we've had so far as the Ark 220 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,440 of the Covenant really in Raiders, you also have kind 221 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,159 of the miss sterious the head piece to the staff 222 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,320 of Raw you know, you have that, you do Egyptian stuff, 223 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,840 that's a lot of fun. You have the shunkarstones from 224 00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:11,799 Temple of Doom. They have mysterious properties. 225 00:12:12,279 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 226 00:12:13,039 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: You have the Holy Grail, the Cup of Christ from 227 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,679 the third one, and then. 228 00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 3: We move into. 229 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,519 Speaker 2: Crystal skulls and UFOs and that type of thing. 230 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that Lucas you know, he was kind 231 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,919 of compelled to say, hey, this is Indian the fifties 232 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:35,240 and what was what was the fifties all about? The 233 00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:38,399 sci fi rage had started, right, UFOs and men from 234 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:40,840 Mars and that, you know, whereas the original trilogy in 235 00:12:40,879 --> 00:12:43,799 the thirties it was all about those original serials, you know, 236 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:47,200 and movies like Treasures Sarah Madre with Humpri Bogart. Now 237 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,639 we're in the fifties, so I understand why he went 238 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:51,720 where he went, but it doesn't mean that it worked. 239 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: What do you think about the Numcguffin? 240 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,919 Speaker 3: I think it was a great idea lousy execution. 241 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:01,639 Speaker 2: Okay, you know you and I were talking. They name 242 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,240 it about three different things. 243 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was scratching my head because I was like, wait, 244 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,559 I thought we were going after the Dial of Destiny. 245 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,759 Oh we're not. We're going after Jason. I actually can't 246 00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:15,320 even remember all the names that they use, but it's 247 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,320 like it's record on Carrosa or something like that. Yeah, 248 00:13:19,039 --> 00:13:23,639 the anti Thria or yeah, I don't know, it's it's 249 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,679 I do recall them talking about like like I didn't 250 00:13:26,759 --> 00:13:29,799 at least three different names. Yeah, so I was like, wait, 251 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,480 are we going after three different things? Or oh, it's 252 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,000 the same thing. It's just but you know, it's like 253 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,879 if you say Grail, we know that it's the Holy 254 00:13:36,919 --> 00:13:38,799 Grail or the Cup of Christ. You can say that 255 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:41,480 because it's it makes sense, you know, the Arc or 256 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,159 the Ark of the Covenant. But something weird like this, 257 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,360 you don't want to give it multiple names. I think 258 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:48,799 for me that was as a viewer, that was confusing 259 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:50,360 and kind of pointless. 260 00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: Okay, And just to double down on what you said, 261 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,200 the Second Commandment, Indiana Jones at his heart is a 262 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,639 treasure hunter slash grave robber slash archaeologist. 263 00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:05,519 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I could. I could do abug grave robber. 264 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,960 You know you sound like chatter lull there at Pancott, 265 00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:13,360 But it was his misunderstanding equities. 266 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: There it is, yes, there, it is there. It is 267 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:17,320 all right. 268 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 3: We are two. 269 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:25,759 Speaker 1: Commandment number three three thou shalt tell stories of action adventure, 270 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:31,759 never science fiction, which according to you guys, also includes 271 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,320 time travel. And I have to agree that can't be 272 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:38,480 your central issue. And this goes back to our kind 273 00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:41,679 of key point about Commandment number two. It needs to 274 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,399 have historical significance. This needs to be a real historical thing. 275 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:50,519 And from what I gathered, the Dial of Destiny is 276 00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:53,159 not an actual, real historical thing. It's just something they 277 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,879 kind of made up. And there it's so many lost 278 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,960 treasures out there that you have the opportunity to do 279 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,399 something with. Why make something up like this? 280 00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:05,519 Speaker 3: I know it's based off of an actual thing that 281 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:08,720 was found, which people now nowadays are saying this is 282 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:10,519 this is kind of like the workings of like the 283 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:13,039 very first computer, and that people in each and Greece 284 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:17,080 shouldn't have had the precision gears that it had. That's 285 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,200 about as far as it goes in reality and then 286 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,159 the rest, you know, the whole time travel angle has 287 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,039 been added to it. 288 00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:28,919 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole basis of the original idea Raiders 289 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:33,120 have lost arc Grail. All of it is that India 290 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,799 is a doubter. He is a doubter in the supernatural. 291 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,039 His character arc for each of those movies is to 292 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,519 move from doubter to believer. That's the whole point. That's 293 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:46,440 what that's what we are here to see. And so 294 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,639 if your mcguffin is a scientific instrument, it doesn't have 295 00:15:50,679 --> 00:15:55,200 any magical unexplainable by science powers, Well, what's the big 296 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,919 deal in him coming to believe in this thing? There's 297 00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:00,000 not one. It doesn't make any sense. It's kind of 298 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:02,200 it's the same way I feel about Kingdom of the 299 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:08,279 Crystal Skull. They've taken something and given it like historical significance, 300 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,799 but it's based completely in science and not at all 301 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,919 in the belief beyond our current realm. 302 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: Now now you can actually see it on his face 303 00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:21,440 when he goes to the map room in Raiders and 304 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:24,000 he's got the headpiece of Steph of raw at the 305 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,000 right time of day with the sunlight coming through, and 306 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,639 you get that swell of music from John Williams, and 307 00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:33,679 it blows up that spot where the Well of Souls 308 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:35,960 is and you see the look on Harrison Port's face 309 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,320 or Indian A Jones's face, and all of a sudden, 310 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:40,480 he's like, oh my gosh, this is really happening. Like 311 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,200 God is speaking through this crystal. 312 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: Of the chorus of oz behind. 313 00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: It's amazing. 314 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,519 Speaker 3: Right, he becomes a true believer. 315 00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: Hey, you know, before we go any further, is it 316 00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:59,080 fair for us to compare any movie to Raiders? 317 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: I I still maintain that the third movie, that Last Crusade, 318 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,400 is arguably better than Raiders. I love Raiders. I mean 319 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,119 I hold it in the highest regard, but I think 320 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,960 that Last Crusade is equally as good, if not in 321 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,359 some respects better. I know some people think Temple of 322 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,599 Doom is better, but the formula that they followed in 323 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,440 each of those movies is beautiful, and I think they 324 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,599 do it. I think they top themselves by bringing Henry 325 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,359 Jones Sr. Into the mix, who just happens to be 326 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,240 a former James Bond guy. I mean, it's just it's too. 327 00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:39,559 Speaker 2: Perfect, So desays yes, Jeff, what do you think. 328 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,319 Speaker 3: I say Raiders is a perfect film. I could imagine 329 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,079 changing a single frame of that. So is it fair? No? 330 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:56,519 Do we have to do it? Yeah? The fourth Commandment four, 331 00:17:57,519 --> 00:18:02,519 thou shalt not take thy heroes name in vain. His 332 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,880 name is Indiana Jones, doctor Jones to his colleagues, Indy 333 00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:13,240 to his friends, it's not Henry. And and Tod's point 334 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,960 talking about Last Crusade, I don't recall a single moment 335 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,480 where his father calls him Henry. He calls him Junior 336 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,519 through the whole movie, which is acceptable if you're Sean 337 00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:25,119 Connery's character, even Henry Jones Senr. The one time he 338 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,880 references his name, he says, Indiana, let it go. 339 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:30,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. 340 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not Henry. It bothered me in Crystal Skull 341 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,160 when when Oxley kept calling him that it's not Henry 342 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,839 and it's definitely not jonesy. I cannot stand that. Jason, 343 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,559 we were talking about Crystal Skull earlier, about the Mac character. 344 00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:50,279 My take was cut him out of the movie completely. 345 00:18:50,319 --> 00:18:54,319 He's a pointless character. He's not likable. He's not unlikable 346 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,480 enough to register, you know, like ah, that that's an 347 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,079 awful guy. He's a pointless character. He bothers me. Ray 348 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,599 Winstone is a great actor, but every time he says 349 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,279 Jonesy in that movie, I WinCE. And you better believe 350 00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:10,359 I was wincing hard when someone when Helena Shaw was 351 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:11,400 using it in the New One. 352 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:17,279 Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, don't ever ever call him. 353 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,599 Speaker 1: Henry, call him doctor Jones, doll. 354 00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 2: It's really not that hard. Don't call him Henry. It's Indiana. 355 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:34,559 He likes Indiana. Commandment number five five thou shalt always 356 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:41,000 use the acquisition of knowledge as the final superpower of 357 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:45,079 Indiana Jones. Now, then this is a little bit complex, 358 00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:47,200 so I want to just state my case on this one. 359 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:47,559 Speaker 1: Okay. 360 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:52,599 Speaker 2: So Indy and Belloc are basically identical in Raiders of 361 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:54,480 the Lost Ark. They're both smart. 362 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: We reflection, that's it. 363 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: It would only take us a nudge to push him 364 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,839 into the But basically, they're smart, they're capable, they're respected, 365 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,039 they know what they're doing, they know what they're going after, 366 00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:08,079 they know how to do it. What's the difference, Andy 367 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,839 tells Marion, shut your eyes, Marian, don't look at it. 368 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,119 He has become a believer, and therefore that acquisition, that 369 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:19,000 belief is what gives him the edge over his enemies. 370 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,119 It also happens when he is choosing the cup of 371 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,640 a Carpenter in the Last Crusade. Now, then Donovan completely 372 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:30,960 arbitrarily just picks one and does the completely stupid thing. 373 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,559 And just what do you think, Elsa, which one is? Okay? 374 00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:33,839 Speaker 3: This one? 375 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,039 Speaker 2: Yeah sounds good, let's drink. 376 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: He chose. He chose. 377 00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,559 Speaker 2: But he uses his brains to choose the cup of 378 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:50,079 a Carpenter. Obviously it's not gonna be jewel and crustard. 379 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,519 It's just gonna be a wooden cup. So using his 380 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,720 brains as his final superpower is a must for the 381 00:20:58,759 --> 00:20:59,759 Indiana Jones character. 382 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: I agree. 383 00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: So you didn't like it when they just decided to 384 00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:06,440 run away at the end of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, 385 00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,920 like that was the solution. All these aliens are come 386 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,519 to life run away. 387 00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one thing I want to bring up spoiler free. 388 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,359 There is a puzzle that is not solved by Indiana 389 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,880 Jones in the Dial of Destiny that I wanted to 390 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,480 stand up and throw my coke at the screen. 391 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Thank goodness. 392 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,240 This in the new one, Thank goodness, the sidekick doesn't 393 00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:37,759 have to solve the puzzles, because are you know, the 394 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:40,200 the new the new hero was there to take care 395 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:40,799 of that for us. 396 00:21:40,839 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: And you know, sad, very sad betrayal, betrayal, well, especially. 397 00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:49,759 Speaker 3: When Indy's just sitting there like, uh, tell tell me more, 398 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,920 you know, I'm at your feet A wise one. Yeah, 399 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:03,039 man Command number six six thou shalt not bear false 400 00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:07,000 witness with CGI. Okay, so you guys have heard me 401 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:11,079 complain about CGI before. Jason I recently did a recording 402 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,400 of an episode where we did the worst sequels of 403 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,400 the eighties. And not to give away anything, but caddy 404 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,400 Shack two did come up, and Jason talked about his 405 00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:30,240 reaction to the new round hog gopher thing in Caddyshack 406 00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:34,400 two and is absolute disdain for it. And I will 407 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,920 say right now, Spike in the Football, bad practical effect 408 00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:45,039 gopher from Caddyshack two is still much better than CGI. 409 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Round hogs from the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. 410 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:49,519 Speaker 3: Wow. 411 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 2: Spike in the Football, Wow, that's big time right there. 412 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 3: I don't I don't know that I can disagree with him. 413 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,880 The gophers in Crystal Skull are so card too. 414 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: It's ludicrous. 415 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 3: It's one thing that they look cartoony, but the fact 416 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,440 that they act like Disney animated characters, you know, with 417 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,799 their whole curious, quizzical nature and silliness. I couldn't stand it. 418 00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, absolutely unnecessary. Number one, I get what 419 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,039 you're trying to do with the groundhog hole at the 420 00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:24,519 beginning in the shape of the mountain, but number one, 421 00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,440 I thought it was offensive. I just was just like, really, 422 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,319 unless you are coming out and saying, hey, guys, for 423 00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:34,920 our fourth Indiana Jones, we are going to make fun 424 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,279 of ourselves. Unless you come out and say that like 425 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:40,240 they did with like lethal weapon for or whatever, then 426 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,759 doing stuff like that is just like spitting in the 427 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:43,559 face of your fans. 428 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I could drive thirty minutes down the road to 429 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,160 the Oklahoma City Zoo, I get you some footage of gophers, 430 00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:53,599 real groundhogs, real groundhogs, and it would look totally fine. 431 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean again, you know, we've always started these 432 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,599 movies with a transition from the paramount logo to an 433 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,000 actual mountain, and I thought that was when I first 434 00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:05,680 saw it. I was like, Oh, that's that's that's cool, 435 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,200 that's brilliant, right, you could have just had an actual 436 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,480 roundhaul come out of that thing at that point, but 437 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,880 you didn't. You had a cartoon pop out and say hello, sough. 438 00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:18,799 You almost wonder do we start off with such a 439 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,119 ludicrous CGI effect just so the rest of what you 440 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,079 saw you're like, okay, well it was at least it 441 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,799 wasn't the gopher. You know, it's not that bad. I 442 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,559 don't know. Maybe they are like setting trying to set. 443 00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: A gopher to to burst out and go to bit. 444 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 445 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: By the way, go check out our podcast with Dayton 446 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,440 Johnson on the Docking Base seventy seven podcast where we 447 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,160 talk about who framed Roger Rabbit. 448 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: So I was talking to Def Dave about this before 449 00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:54,519 we started. It's not just the overuse of CGI, it's 450 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:58,200 the lack of practical effects. Oh thing about raiders that 451 00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:02,039 made it so great and Timple and last crusade Erison 452 00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:05,920 Ford is dirty, he's gritty, he's scraped up, he's bruised, 453 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,880 he's broken. He gets thrown out of a windshield, he 454 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,519 falls over the front of a truck, he goes underneath 455 00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:15,960 the truck. You see a guy being drug by a truck. 456 00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:18,839 I remember that was on That's incredible. I mean it 457 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,119 was a big deal in these hard, practical stunts. When 458 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,920 Indy jumps from a tuck tuck to another tuck tuck 459 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,359 in dial A Destiny, you see it in the trailer, 460 00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:30,480 Indy can barely get out of bed. Are you telling 461 00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:32,839 me that he makes that acrobatic leap? 462 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: And let's talk about the CGI there too, because and 463 00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,079 this is you you see this in the trailer. It's 464 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:40,240 not so much that he jumps from one. It's it 465 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,759 almost looks like someone's throwing a rag doll from one 466 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:45,319 to the other. It's like he kind of like does 467 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:50,559 like a lateral sway. Yeah, yeah, it's uh. I didn't 468 00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,519 buy for one second. And the CGI in the new 469 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:57,039 one is more egregious than Crystal Skull in my opinion, 470 00:25:57,079 --> 00:26:00,839 because we get how many pointless chasing that are just 471 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,240 a CGI blurry mess that that going far too long 472 00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:07,200 and are boring, boring should never be used in an 473 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,039 Indiana Jones film. 474 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. In fact, Dave just text me 475 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:12,680 and said it has to be fun. So like one 476 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,400 of his commandments is that it's gotta be fun. Before 477 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,519 I'm accused of talking out of both sides of my mouth, 478 00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:19,640 I want to I want to pose this to you guys. 479 00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:24,279 So you guys watch The Mandalorian. Oh yeah, okay, the 480 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,839 last episode of season two, I believe, I can't remember exactly, 481 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,799 A beloved character shows up in The Mandalorian and they 482 00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:36,559 deage him with computer graphics. And I was doing backflips 483 00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:38,160 because I thought it was freaking awesome. 484 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,519 Speaker 1: You didn't like it, did not? 485 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: Okay? 486 00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: Wow? I love it? 487 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:44,759 Speaker 2: Cgi So do we think that this worked? The d 488 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,319 aging of Harrison Ford? Did this work in Dialodestiny? 489 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 3: So here's where I'm at with it. It's it's a 490 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,400 magic trick. Okay, you do a slighter hand, I don't 491 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,000 catch it, and I'm mystified, right, But if you slow 492 00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:01,960 it down and you give me a chance to really 493 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,359 look hard, really look close, then I can start to 494 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,759 find some flaws. I love the opening sequence, Jason, we 495 00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:09,279 talked about. I love the opening sequence of Dialodestiny. I 496 00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:12,319 thought it was a fantastic throwback to the last Crusade 497 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,079 era for Indiana Jones. But it maybe went on a 498 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,039 little too long. And the longer it went, the more 499 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,880 you could start to see, like, well, wait, the eyes 500 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,359 are kind of weird, you know, like that what they 501 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,319 call the dead eye when anytime they d age someone, 502 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:27,000 there's always that that thing where they can't just capture 503 00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:31,920 the eyes right, right, And that's a minor thing. But 504 00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:37,119 the real problem for me was just hearing Harrison Ford's craggy, grumpy, 505 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,319 eighty year old voice coming out coming out of a 506 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,720 forty year old Harrison Ford. And I didn't understand why 507 00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:44,480 they didn't digitally clean that up, you know, much of 508 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,000 the way they did with Val Kilmer in Maverick. 509 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: You and I talked about that the other night. Yeah, 510 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,599 and it's the voice does not match, the face doesn't 511 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,519 match what we're seeing, and you got to gravelly old Harrison, 512 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,720 but you pointed it out. They did that and Top 513 00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:02,440 done average where they cleaned up Valcimra's voice and they 514 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,480 computer generated it based on all of his other movies 515 00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:06,079 and stuff like that. 516 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, so how do you there 517 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:14,359 is a just a treasure trove of material for Harrison Ford. 518 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,039 I mean you think about everything that that they could 519 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:19,079 have got they could have pulled from. Truthfully, he wouldn't 520 00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,000 even have to utter the dialogue. They could have just 521 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,240 made a sound board based off what he said before. 522 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:26,400 Similar what they did with Valcolmer, you know, but the 523 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,920 fact that they didn't, I felt that that was lazy honestly, 524 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,519 not that it's CGI, but it's you know, it's part 525 00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:33,559 of that computer generated effect. 526 00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think your magic trick analogy captures it perfectly. 527 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,680 If if I can tell, like if I can see 528 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,799 what the what the sleight of hand is, then you 529 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,839 haven't done a good job with it. And with a 530 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,000 movie of this magnitude, with this much funding, you should 531 00:28:50,119 --> 00:28:50,559 fool me. 532 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: Yes, And if. 533 00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: Your groundhogs look like cartoons and your de aging looks 534 00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:02,680 like a computer filter on an Instagram, you didn't do 535 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,000 it right. And it's so easy to fix because half 536 00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:09,079 of Indiana's face is always in the shadow, Like I mean, 537 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,799 just darken it, darken the place where he is, put 538 00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:14,960 those shadows around. That's I mean. I said the same 539 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,799 thing with the beloved character and the Mandalorian. If he'd 540 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,000 kept his hood on have been great. You never would 541 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,839 have had worried about. But it's like they want to 542 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480 show off. And then when they show off, it's like 543 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:28,359 it's like your five year old showing off their artwork. 544 00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,680 You're like, didn't I do great? Doesn't looking exactly like 545 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,079 a bear. 546 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: Oh sure, I quote Marcus Brody, they're meddling with powers. 547 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,440 They cannot understand. 548 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: Commendment number seven seven thou shalt not believe in thy 549 00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:53,400 perfect hero. All right, So on this one, I want 550 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,920 to make sure that we understand Indiana Jones. He makes mistakes. 551 00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:00,440 He's not perfect, he's not a superhero. He gets hurt, 552 00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:04,599 he gets scraped and scratched and bruised. The scene in 553 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,319 Raiders where after he's been drugged by the truck, he's 554 00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:10,160 been punched by every German known de man, and then 555 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,920 Marian's trying to nurse him a little bit and he 556 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,319 can barely get his shirt off. That's great. We want 557 00:30:16,319 --> 00:30:19,359 our heroes to be just like us. He gets shot 558 00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,000 and Raiders are lost dark, It skims, it goes in 559 00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:24,279 and out of his shoulder. You can just see the 560 00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:26,359 pain on his face. This is killing me. That guy's 561 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:28,079 punching him in the already dying, right. 562 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, think about Raiders, and I don't want to 563 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,279 get a soft track. But when he's fighting the German 564 00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:37,119 mechanic and that guy levels him just the way Harrison 565 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,000 Ford wobbles his knees as he drops, like I felt 566 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:43,079 that punch and if you've ever been hitting the face, 567 00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:46,359 you know you know what that what that feels like, 568 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,000 and you know what your body does, how your body reacts. 569 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:51,599 Marian trying to help him with his shirt off, and 570 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,640 he's like, ah, oh you believe it. 571 00:30:57,319 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, never been shot out before. This happens to me 572 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,359 all the You call this archaeology. So this, I mean, 573 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,559 I had already given up on the movie well in 574 00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:10,559 advance of the scene. But this is really to your point. 575 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,279 The place that you lose him as a normal human 576 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:17,960 being happens in the crystal skull. Whenever he goes into 577 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,720 the refrigerator, he is blasted out by an atomic blast. 578 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,640 He lands in the refrigerator. I have no idea why 579 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,480 it's the only thing that gets blasted out of the 580 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,119 fake town is the refrigerator by itself, but that's what happens. 581 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,039 And then it shows you him looking at the mushroom cloud. 582 00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:39,400 That's big, like it's not often the distance a thousand miles, 583 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,559 it's huge. He would be dead as he stood, you'd 584 00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,119 be dead as he stood. As it turns out, all 585 00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:48,519 he had to get was a little scrubbing, and he's 586 00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:52,240 perfectly fine. There's no bruises, there's no cuts. He's been 587 00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:56,799 blasted fifty miles in a refrigerator and has no purple 588 00:31:56,839 --> 00:31:59,640 mark on him at all and is relaxing with his 589 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,519 thought at the end of the day. I mean, it's 590 00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:02,480 just absurd. 591 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 3: D If I put you, If I put you inside 592 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,880 of a lead lined refrigerator and I just drop you 593 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,319 ten feet off off a building, how many broken bones 594 00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:15,799 are you getting when that thing pops open? Because yeah, 595 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:17,880 you're right, man, he just he kind of rolls out 596 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,000 and kind of groggy AND's like, you know, gives us 597 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,400 a little Harrison Ford grumpy grel and no problem. 598 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,039 Speaker 2: It was lead lined bad bad, by the way, I'll 599 00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,200 just say the John McClean stories movies have made the 600 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:31,880 same mistake. 601 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,079 Speaker 1: It needs to be fun. I think the Bullet Dune 602 00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:39,599 lost of fun with that dark tone, So you gotta 603 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,359 keep it fun. Thank you, def Dave for your take 604 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,480 on that commandment number eight. 605 00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: Eight. 606 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: Thou shalt not give any sitting exposition these movies because 607 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,279 they have historical significance that has to be explained. I 608 00:32:57,359 --> 00:33:01,359 understand it. Exposition is necessary with this type of movie. 609 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,519 You've got to lay your ground rules. You've got to 610 00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:06,799 lay your history. I get it. But in Kingdom of 611 00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:11,400 the Crystal Skull it happens twice, and both times both 612 00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:14,519 Indie and the character he is speaking to are just 613 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:18,200 sitting at a table, and it's awful. It grinds the 614 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,759 movie to a halt and it drives me nuts. In 615 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,079 Kingdom the Crystal Skull happens whenever they are sitting, just 616 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,319 after he's been scrubbed for his nuclear waist, sitting at 617 00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:30,559 a table, and he mentioned something about the Air Force 618 00:33:30,559 --> 00:33:32,920 incident in forty seven, which sounds like a better story 619 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,000 to me than what they're talking about already. That's great, 620 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:38,960 but he sits. The other guy that he's talking to sits, 621 00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:41,640 he explains something that I still don't understand. 622 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,559 Speaker 3: Having seen the whole movie. 623 00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:47,359 Speaker 1: And then later on he gives exposition to a character 624 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,920 in a diner. In a diner, are you kidding me? What? 625 00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:54,960 You're sitting at a table and nothing is happening except 626 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,440 that you're explaining things that still don't seem to have 627 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,880 a significant impact on the movie. If you're going to 628 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,160 have exposition, it needs to be key to the movie 629 00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:05,680 and it needs to be well explained. And what they 630 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,199 did in Raiders what do they do. They have him 631 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,480 with a blackboard and chalk and he's drawn the lines 632 00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:14,119 from the staff of Raw and he's opening up the 633 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,679 giant book that has the pictures of the lightning coming 634 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,079 out of the Arc of the Covenant. It's beautifully done when. 635 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 3: They do it. 636 00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:24,519 Speaker 1: In the Last Crusade, they're in the library looking around 637 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:29,079 for the clue. Right, X never marks the spot, except 638 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:31,559 that it does in this circumstance. And you've got this 639 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,519 great exposition as things are happening. You can't sit and 640 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,440 stare at another character and give exposition and have it 641 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,199 be a proper Indiana Jones sequel. I'm off my soapbox, 642 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,519 you guys. 643 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,039 Speaker 3: No, you're you're preaching the choir there, because there's more 644 00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:52,039 of that happening in Crystal Skull, where at least they're 645 00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:56,199 in the gravesite and they're kind of walking and talking 646 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,559 and you're in on the adventure. 647 00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: You know. 648 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you. Sitting around uh and just 649 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,559 having a milkshake and talking about it does not work, 650 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,239 not at all. 651 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:07,599 Speaker 1: Yeah. 652 00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: In fact, I think in Last Crusade he's explaining what's 653 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,800 going on to Elsa while they're you know, the Arc 654 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,719 of the Covenant's written on the wall and they've got 655 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,119 rats all around, you got petroleum everywhere, And yeah, the 656 00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:24,480 exposition happens while you are discovering things with Indiana Jones. 657 00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 3: Now the Last Crusade. That's a good moment where two 658 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,599 people are sitting at a table and having a great 659 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:33,440 conversation and it's meaningful to the movie. And I'm talking 660 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,320 about when they're when they're on the blimp and they're 661 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,400 kind of they're kind of hashing out their their family issues, huh, 662 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,079 and having a little bit of fun with it too, 663 00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:43,079 where he's like, you know, she's old enough to be 664 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,760 your ordered to be your grandfather, you know, and you know, 665 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,840 and then you know it starts to get serious for 666 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,599 a second. And then and then Henry Jones Senior I'm 667 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,360 talking about like he gets excited, He like you know, 668 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,440 moves his chair of his saying, look we're this is 669 00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:57,960 how close we are and sharing his diary and like 670 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,239 it's a great father son moment. That that's a good 671 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,119 moment where you can have exposition with just two people 672 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,440 sitting there talking. But other than that, and the first 673 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,320 scene of Raiders, like you're wasting our time and. 674 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,599 Speaker 2: We don't stay there very long. 675 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not wrong if they sit at a table. 676 00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:16,880 I mean you have Bellock and Indy sitting at a 677 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,239 table on the very first episode, and it's awesome. You 678 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,559 want to talk to God? Yeah, because it's emotional, it's 679 00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:27,239 charged up. It's not let me explain a historical story 680 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,480 to you. That's terrible. 681 00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 2: Raiders is a perfect movie. This is I think it's 682 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,920 unfair to compare anything to Raiders because everything they do 683 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:38,880 is so well executed. The whole story just keeps moving, 684 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:45,719 keeps me and keeps moving. Commandment number nine nine, thou 685 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:52,960 shalt remember that Indiana Jones is a lone wolf. And 686 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,679 I told Jeff you and I were talking about this. 687 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,119 I'm like, this is my biggest problem with a certain 688 00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:01,639 movie that I'm trying to remain spoiler. Indiana Jones doesn't 689 00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:04,920 need your freaking help. If some of his friends want 690 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,679 to hang around and help a little bit, that's okay, 691 00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,559 But he's going after the arc. He literally takes on 692 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:14,159 the entire Nazi army pretty much by himself, with a 693 00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:16,440 little bit of help from Salah and a little bit 694 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,679 of help from Marion in the first movie. In the 695 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,800 second movie, he has to. I mean, Willie is an 696 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,880 obstacle the entire time, Shorty, she is around to throw 697 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,880 him his whip every once in a while. You're getting 698 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,280 ready to defend Willie Scott for us. 699 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: That's that's a bold that's a bold statement. I won't 700 00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,400 defend her, but I will say she does technically save 701 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,079 their lives at least once. 702 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 2: Yes, and then she almost gets them killed immediately after that. 703 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 3: You're right, yeah, but no, I get what you're saying though, 704 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,280 Like you know, they're along, you know her in short round, 705 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,119 they're along for the ride and there they help when 706 00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:55,159 they when they can't help. 707 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,639 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe lone Wolf is a bit strong. He does 708 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,559 need his friends, but he's not taking a back seat 709 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:01,559 to anyone. 710 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,039 Speaker 1: He's first, little second fiddle he got I can go 711 00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,599 along with. I'm like, I'm thinking a lot of situations 712 00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:09,280 where it was important to have those other characters there. 713 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,480 But yeah, he can never be second fiddle. 714 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: He's the guy who sees the X on the on 715 00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:17,920 the floor. Now then the important thing too to remember 716 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,199 with Indiana Jones, you have the Superman and the Clark 717 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,880 Kent here. Okay, you have the Professor Jones who wears 718 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,960 glasses and a and a bow tie. And then you've 719 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,639 got the bare knuckled fedora wearing leather jacket Indiana Jones. 720 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,280 And there's a distinct break between those two versions of 721 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,079 himself that may or may not show up in the 722 00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:39,760 fifth movie. 723 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 3: I don't think he shows up at all. And to 724 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,239 D's point, yes, he can't be second Fiddle, but he's 725 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,039 sure as heck can't be the roadie for the second Fiddle. 726 00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:50,159 And there's there's a lot of moments in the third 727 00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:52,239 one where I feel like he's maybe he's not even 728 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,280 the sidekick. He's he's in the back seat. You know, 729 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,159 he's not even riding shotgun. I have one thought though, Yeah, 730 00:38:57,199 --> 00:38:59,280 but you know about about him like the lone wolf behavior, 731 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,840 because I know Jason, when we talk to you, you know, 732 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,679 you were saying, yeah, he's you prefer to be more 733 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,480 of a bond. Let's think about this though. I think 734 00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:07,840 part of the reason that he needs to always be 735 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,119 on his own at the end of the day, he 736 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,639 needs to be on his own because these movies always 737 00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:16,280 see him betrayed. He's never finding that family unit or 738 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,320 that that person has settled down with because he he's 739 00:39:18,519 --> 00:39:22,039 you know, he's betrayed every time. You know, Raiders opens 740 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,239 and closes with Indie getting betrayed. Soapedo double crosses him 741 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,280 with the in the Hoovito's Cave or whatever. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, 742 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,360 the US government promises, Yeah, the museum gets the arc 743 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,280 and you guys can study it, and then it gets 744 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,639 put away, so that uhh, who can look at it? 745 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 4: D hop Man, top man, top yeah man, Yeah, yeah, 746 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,960 but but Temple of Doom lu Chi double crosses him 747 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,320 on the deal right right to open the movie, Doctor 748 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,400 Elsa Snyder double crosses him. 749 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 3: Mac Mac double cross he macks a double agent, triple 750 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,840 at whatever. I know, I've said my piece about Mac, 751 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,880 but he betrays him and even in the new one, 752 00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,480 and again it's not it's not spoiler because you if 753 00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:11,239 you saw the trailer, you know, Helena Shaw double crosses 754 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,039 him and you know, locks him in with with the 755 00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,159 rogue Cia Nazis that are about to kill him, and 756 00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:20,519 she's like, sorry, yeah, he's always getting betrayed. Who can he. 757 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: Count on himself? 758 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good, Jeff, that's good. By the way, does 759 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,079 anybody have a problem with him Marion Marion marrying Marian. 760 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: If they had done it right, I wouldn't have a 761 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,719 problem with it. Okay. 762 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 3: I feel like the best ending for this, for this 763 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,039 character is the last Crusade galloping off in the sunset. 764 00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:40,679 I don't think we could have got better. I think 765 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,280 if you're going to even try and get close, you're 766 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,760 not going to hit a bulls eye, but you might 767 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,880 hit the board. With him marrying Marian. 768 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean James Bond got married. Yeah, I realized. 769 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,320 I mean, spoiler alert, she dies. But I think that 770 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,719 they could have done something as effective with Marian for sure. 771 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 3: The thing about Marion, think about where we're in introduced 772 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,000 to her. This is a woman that can clearly hold 773 00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:05,599 her own and take care of herself. She has never 774 00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,639 been a damsel distress. Even when she was a damsel distress, 775 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:09,480 you know, it's. 776 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:10,519 Speaker 1: The perfect soil for him. 777 00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 2: She was a child. Yes, it was wrong, and you 778 00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:14,360 know it. 779 00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 3: She come on, she knew what she was doing. Now, 780 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,239 I would have been okay with Marion still going her 781 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,840 separate ways and doing you know, following in Abner's work 782 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,079 and getting in her own adventures. You know, because she 783 00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:27,880 was a strong She's a strong enough character to do that. 784 00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:39,400 Our tenth and Final Commandment ten honor thy composer. So 785 00:41:39,559 --> 00:41:42,360 let's let's talk about this. There are several people that 786 00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:46,239 have been key to the success of these movies. You 787 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,760 gotta have Lucas, you gotta have Spielberg, that's the brain trust. 788 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,719 You have to have Harrison Ford may or may not 789 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,199 depending on how we look at it in the next 790 00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:56,599 ten years. The fourth guy on that list that you 791 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,000 have to have is John Williams and his iconic school 792 00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:03,079 or his beautiful score. Granted, we know this might be 793 00:42:03,159 --> 00:42:05,679 the last score, the Dialadestiny might be the last score 794 00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:08,719 that John Williams does. You know, I think he's planning 795 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,880 on doing a little bit of limited touring. We might 796 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,440 not get another soundtrack from this guy. In my mind, 797 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,679 he's the greatest of all time. Anyone that has to 798 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,079 follow in his footsteps. You got to come correct and 799 00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:20,159 you got to hit those beats. 800 00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:24,039 Speaker 2: Do you think he did a good job in Dialodestiny. 801 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 3: You know, Dave and I talked about this on our 802 00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:31,360 back to the box Office review, and I felt guilty 803 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,039 for saying it was lazy, because at the same time, 804 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,480 you know, a bad John Williams score is a great 805 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,800 film score. You know, at the end of the day, 806 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,800 I feel like he maybe he phoned it in a 807 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,599 little bit. Some of the beats that I feel are 808 00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:47,920 necessary we're missing, whether we're talking dialadestiny or we're talking 809 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,519 ten years down the road. When someone does a new theme, 810 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,559 there's certain things that have to be there. The iconic march, 811 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,519 right the Raiders, what's known as the Raiders March. After Raiders, 812 00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:59,039 it still showed up in every movie and it then 813 00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:01,639 became what's known as endo credits. We got to have it. 814 00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:04,679 There's two other themes that you have to have as well. 815 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,840 One of them would be the I'll call this one 816 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,679 the one the heart theme, because you know in Raiders 817 00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,280 it's called Marion's Theme. R you know, it's that soft, 818 00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,760 slowed down version, and we get we get some of 819 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,280 that a little bit with the flirtatious banter with him 820 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,679 and Willie Scott, when Sean Connery takes out the Nazi 821 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,320 plane with the by using the birds and like, you know, 822 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,920 using his umbrella, and Harrison Ford has that he just 823 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,400 has that great look and just you know, and you 824 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,440 had that soft music, yeah, that soft beat. And then lastly, 825 00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:37,920 I would say there's there's always that ominous theme. Maybe 826 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,599 it's ominous, maybe it's a little bit spooky. And that's 827 00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:41,719 when you're just you're maybe kind of giving us a 828 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,760 little bit of exposition on what this mcguffin can really do. 829 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,679 Speaker 2: You know, you think about Raiders, and again we're comparing 830 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,800 to a perfect movie. But and he has a theme, 831 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,159 Marion has a theme, the head piece to the staff 832 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:54,960 of Raw has a theme. The arc has a theme. 833 00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:57,639 And then when they open the Arc, you got maybe 834 00:43:57,639 --> 00:43:59,840 the most terrifying piece of music I've ever heard. My 835 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,400 Oh yeah, that doesn't even mention whatever they play when 836 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,599 he's chasing down the truck on the horse and getting 837 00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,199 thrown through the windshield, all that, all that thing everybody 838 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,880 was hitting on all cylinders for Raiders, and then this one. 839 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,880 I do we hear the march one time? I think 840 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,239 maybe we heard the march one time. 841 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,199 Speaker 3: I think we briefly heard it in the opening sequel 842 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,800 opening Yep, you know when he's well, I want to 843 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,719 say anything, but yeah, I think you hear a little 844 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,039 bit of it there, and uh, I definitely remember not 845 00:44:28,159 --> 00:44:30,800 hearing it. At the end, I was like, you know what, 846 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,559 give me my Raiders march? So I know that the 847 00:44:33,559 --> 00:44:36,039 movie's over, and then it gave us a different theme, 848 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,079 and I was like, I looked over David, I'm like, well, 849 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,880 they can't even get the ending right, the final credit 850 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,920 music right? Come on? 851 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,039 Speaker 2: You know we talked about it in our when we 852 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:48,199 covered Raiders. There's two themes. So John Williams came to 853 00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:50,880 Steven Spielberg and said, all right, here's this theme d 854 00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:55,320 D D and then there's this other theme dun da 855 00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,679 du and Spielberg's like, love them both, put them together. 856 00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 3: Yep, I want both of them. 857 00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 2: The composer is so important to these movies. 858 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 3: Think about some of your other iconic franchises. This is 859 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,079 a rarity where you have the director and the star 860 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,800 and the composer always coming back together again. Could you 861 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,599 imagine Last Crusade or Temple of Doom with a different composer. 862 00:45:17,679 --> 00:45:18,519 It would have felt wrong. 863 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 2: Any final thoughts, guys. 864 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: You have not convinced me to go see the Dial 865 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:26,199 of Destiny. 866 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 2: I didn't really want this to be a Dial of 867 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,440 Destiny bash fest. But to do the good you have 868 00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:31,760 to talk about the bad too. 869 00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, well you have to talk about the bad, 870 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,320 which is Crystal Skull, and you have to talk about 871 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,239 the ugly, which is Tylo Destiny, the good, the bad, 872 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,480 And I'll tell you right now, my goal was not 873 00:45:42,519 --> 00:45:44,920 to convince you to go see the new one, live 874 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,320 blissfully with the original trilogy and know that that is 875 00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:50,800 that's it, right there, that's it. 876 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,679 Speaker 2: I'm a completionist. I could not not go. 877 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have been I would have been perfectly 878 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,360 happy to end the trilogy writing into the Sunset as 879 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,000 it should have been. 880 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:03,039 Speaker 3: And I stand by what I said. My feelings on 881 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,440 Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are documented, but I'm telling 882 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,000 you Dialodestiny is a far worse movie than Kingdom of 883 00:46:11,039 --> 00:46:13,480 the Crystal Skull. That's where I'm at with it. 884 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:15,199 Speaker 1: And how do you feel? Do you feel that it's 885 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,559 worse than the Crystal Skull. 886 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,599 Speaker 2: I feel like the movie is better, the story was 887 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,719 better than Crystal Skull. But Crystal Skull left the Indiana 888 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,880 Jones character that I love more intact, and so it's 889 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,599 easier for me to swallow Crystal Skull. So there you go. Okay, 890 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,440 quick question before we go, Jeff, can this franchise be saved? 891 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 3: Yes? 892 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,559 Speaker 2: D Can this franchise be saved? 893 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:43,639 Speaker 1: Yes? 894 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,119 Speaker 2: Sounds like it's a tough job. We start over in 895 00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:48,280 ten years, twenty years ten. 896 00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:51,639 Speaker 1: There have been some really bad James Bond movies, it's 897 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,239 and they managed to bring it back and make some 898 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:55,320 of the best I've ever seen. 899 00:46:56,079 --> 00:46:57,760 Speaker 2: All Right, Well, that's gonna wrap it up for us. 900 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,039 I hope you've enjoyed these ten commandments to make a 901 00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:05,239 proper Indiana Jones movie. Jeff, thanks for joining us. 902 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 3: Man, Hey, I appreciate it. Thank you for giving me 903 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,800 a chance to vent a little bit of frustration after 904 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,639 dial Destiny and talk about what could make this a 905 00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:15,400 great franchise. Again. I appreciate that. 906 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,280 Speaker 2: Hey, tell us where we can find you, guys. 907 00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:22,159 Speaker 3: You can find us streaming wherever you get your streaming from, 908 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,199 or you can always check us out at www dot 909 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,039 afilm by podcast dot com. You can check out all 910 00:47:29,079 --> 00:47:32,000 of our episodes. The website's been changed up a little bit, 911 00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:33,760 so now you can go to you just want to 912 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,760 look at eighty six stuff, or back to the box 913 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,000 office stuff or film at forty five stuff. We have 914 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,519 narrowed it down for you so now there's like a 915 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,480 it's much more user friendly. You can find exactly what 916 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,079 you're looking for. But other than that, we are on 917 00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:51,320 social media at a film buy. We always happy to talk, 918 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:56,079 always happy to interact and hear feedback and give thee. 919 00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,880 Speaker 1: That always find Jeff, thanks for coming over. 920 00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:01,320 Speaker 3: Appreciate Dee. 921 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,039 Speaker 2: All Right, guys, we will see you down the road. 922 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:14,079 Follow me, I know the way. 923 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,559 Speaker 1: I mean literally. At some point and when we were 924 00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:22,000 watching The Crystal Skull, she was like, you know, you 925 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,679 don't have to keep watching this if you don't want to. 926 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,239 I was like, really, I don't, really, I've been here 927 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,079 for an hour. I can't quit now. I see this 928 00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:31,880 through to the end.