WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.480 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:08.359 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcast. Hey, hey, apes, Hey, 3 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:09.880 you see that snickers over there? 4 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:11.480 No one's looking. 5 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:13.759 You should just take it. 6 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:19.039 No, don't listen to him, my son, that would be stealing. 7 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:20.559 And stealing is. 8 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:24.679 A sin, Sinchman, it's a freaking snick as may you 9 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:25.839 deserve to have it? 10 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:27.640 Sinning really satisfies you. 11 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:29.280 Repent my child. 12 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:33.640 Virtue is the only real snack with saving for that 13 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:37.799 candy body is merely a gateway to Nukeet dumas. 14 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:43.280 Has this ever happened to you? 15 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:45.560 Listening to the devil on one shoulder and an angel 16 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:47.439 on the other, and you're not sure what to think? 17 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:48.920 Then we're here to help. 18 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.399 I'm Pete Wright and. 19 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:53.159 I'm Tommy Mess and this season on all the Feelings, 20 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.840 we're examining the seven deadly sins. 21 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:57.799 You note, the fun ones. 22 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:59.880 And the seven heavenly virtues. 23 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:03.759 Are also a thing. Through personal stories, historical oddities, and 24 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:06.239 way too much embarrassment, we take you on a thrilling 25 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.760 journey through all the goods and the bads you hear 26 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:10.000 about in church. 27 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:13.159 But without all that pesky church stuff. So Come join 28 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:15.719 us for All the Feelings Season nine, a sometimes funny 29 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:17.040 podcast about being human. 30 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:19.719 All the sins, all the virtues. 31 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:21.879 All in one place. Go to All the Feelings dot 32 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:24.560 fun to learn more or subscribe to All the Feelings 33 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:26.519 wherever you get your podcasts. 34 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:27.959 Game over. 35 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.799 Horror movies get a bad rap. They're cheap thrills, mindless 36 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.239 scre not cinema blah blah blah. 37 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.799 But we here it sitting in the dark no better. 38 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:43.840 We know that horror is more than just jump scares 39 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.239 and chainsaws. It's a reflection of our deepest fears. Our 40 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.959 anxieties are okay, and there's a lot of jump scares 41 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:51.519 and chade sauce. 42 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.680 Join us, Pete right, Tommy Met's the third, Kyle Wilson 43 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.400 and Kenan ds as we cut into the dark heart 44 00:01:58.439 --> 00:01:59.719 of horror cinema. 45 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.000 Every episode we explore a different facet of the genre, 46 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:06.920 from survival horror to home invasions, from zombies to birds. 47 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.280 We tickle the tropes, analyze the angles, and sharpen our 48 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:10.879 own access. 49 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:13.439 Along the way, we'll introduce you to the classics that 50 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:17.159 shaped the genre than the modern masterpieces that are pushing 51 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.840 the boundaries of terror Sitting in the. 52 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:23.080 Dark is your guide to navigating the terrifying. 53 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:27.400 Thrilling, and sometimes hilariously bad world of horror movies. 54 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.560 We'll help you understand why we love to be scared 55 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:35.439 and maybe even convert you into a horror fan yourself. 56 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:40.919 So turn off the lights, close the basement door, enjoina. 57 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:58.159 In, Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. 58 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.879 One thing we like to talk about is the idea 59 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.680 of consequences that you know, it's great to see the 60 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:07.840 fight scenes, but sometimes when we see people get wounded, 61 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.520 we see people go through really traumatic stuff and they're 62 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.039 sad for an episode, but then everything goes back to normal. 63 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.280 It doesn't actually feel that realistic. Well Star Trek DS 64 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:20.800 nine in one of the best episodes, well regarded within 65 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:22.879 DS nine and by many people thought of in the 66 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.680 top ten of all Star Trek episodes. In the episode 67 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:30.240 Only a Paper Moon Season seven, episode ten, they actually 68 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:34.400 really explore in some beautiful ways the effects of trauma, 69 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.280 the effects of amputation, the effects of coming to terms 70 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.360 with life after war and after a catastrophic injury. And 71 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:45.000 we're talking about that here with my co host Riky Hayashi, 72 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:47.960 and for folks, who aren't DS nine fans or just 73 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.080 saw this episode many years ago. Don't worry, we'll be 74 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.400 giving you a quick summary, but just jumping right in, Wreaky, 75 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:57.719 this was an episode you had originally suggested. Tell us 76 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.000 a little bit about why you want to talk about 77 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:00.560 this episode. 78 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:01.800 Any chance to. 79 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:02.840 Talk about Star Trek. 80 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.800 Yeah, is excellent for me if you listen to our 81 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:13.080 episode on section thirty one the movie. Even though I 82 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.840 hadn't personally watched the movie, I had just like the 83 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:19.319 background information Star Trek, Like I just I know it 84 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.680 all and so like I sometimes come off that way, 85 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.600 I know as a know it all, like when I 86 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:27.160 recite like episode. 87 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:27.759 Titles and stuff. 88 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.839 That's just like it is my most nerdy passion. Like 89 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:35.439 I think I like Star Wars the franchise better, but 90 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.040 Star Trek is where I love to get into, just 91 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:39.720 like the fandom of it. 92 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:40.920 Yeah, I can see that. 93 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.319 No, that totally makes sense, And yeah, I love Star Trek. 94 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.279 I think I've said before. I know I've said before 95 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.839 many times that my mother showing me Star Trek and 96 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:54.279 asking me ethical questions about it as a kid was 97 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:57.160 really the birthplace of this podcast, as well as so 98 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.839 many of my sort of issues in interests and love 99 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.800 when it comes to how all this plays out. And 100 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:05.680 so let me give kind of a brief summary of 101 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.120 this episode. So this is set in the last season 102 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.360 of d S nine. Forgive spoilers for a twenty year 103 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.160 old show at thirty year or show. At this point, 104 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.759 we are deep into the Dominion War and one of 105 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.439 the characters who has gone off to war is Nog. 106 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.120 Nog is a Ferengi. He is the son of Ram, 107 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.240 who is the brother of Cork, the person who runs 108 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.959 the casino and restaurant and all that and bar at 109 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.839 d S nine. Now, Who's a character was originally introduced 110 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.160 to us as a haha, look at how sexist and 111 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.959 terrible and awful Farrangie men are, and has gone through 112 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.000 an incredible evolution to the point where he became a 113 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.600 member of starfleet and a member of the military and 114 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:53.279 went off to war and has now come back to war, 115 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:58.120 come back from the war badly injured. He had lost 116 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:03.279 a leg and has now a prosthetic leg, a bioprosthetic leg, 117 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:05.519 but still a story that I is a person who 118 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.480 lost my leg amputated very much relate to and I'll 119 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.839 get to that, and everyone around him is ready to 120 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.480 just sort of like celebrate the hero and move on, 121 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.040 and he's not. He is still in a place of 122 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.279 deep trauma about all of this, and he winds up 123 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:22.879 finding that the only place he feels safe and comfortable 124 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:28.360 is the Holideck, and specifically a Holidec program that's been 125 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.240 running called where it's basically about the golden age of Vegas, 126 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.600 the kind of days of like Frankie Sinatra and all 127 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.920 the crooners, the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, and they've invented 128 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.319 a character who's very much part of that brat pack 129 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.560 era called Vic Fontaine, and Nog basically spends a lot 130 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.920 of his time with Vic, working with him, like helping 131 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.199 him to rebuild his casino, and there's a lot of 132 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.319 debate about like is this good for him or bad 133 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.560 for him? And you know, eventually it shows that like, yes, 134 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.360 actually this is very healing for him and helped with 135 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.000 his trauma until it gets to a point where he's 136 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:05.720 kind of stuck there and it's gone from being helping 137 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:07.480 to enabling, and. 138 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:10.920 Vic vad and himself is the one. 139 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.240 Who kind of helps to push Nog back out into 140 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:17.720 the world and goes out into the world. And while 141 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.639 the idea that PTSD is all solved in one episode 142 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.199 is kind of ridiculous, it is still one of the 143 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.920 only real treatments of this that I've seen, especially in 144 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.079 a show that isn't thought of as like super dark 145 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.240 and gritty, but you know, more like a Star Trek show. 146 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:35.040 And so, yeah, there's just a lot to talk about. 147 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:36.800 But is that Riki? Did I cover a motion of 148 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:38.480 the major plot points. We'll get into more of the 149 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:39.800 details as we go on, for sure. 150 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:43.480 Yeah, I'll just go over you mentioned it was season 151 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:48.240 seven h SO ten. The story is by David Mack 152 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:52.519 and John Jay Ordover. The teleplay I meaning kind of 153 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.079 like the final script was by Ronald D. Moore, who 154 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:58.279 is like the architect of Deep Space nine in a 155 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.439 lot of ways, and as directed by Anson Williams. The 156 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:06.959 previous episode right where you mentioned Nog was injured, is 157 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:10.360 also one of the best in Deep Space nine, dealing 158 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:13.839 with like the realities of war, the siege of Ar 159 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.319 five five eight. We see Nog go from kind of 160 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.680 wide eyed and excited to then like being scared, and 161 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.800 then finally like in the end, just injured and broken 162 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:32.879 and in that moment, I believe when he's like waiting 163 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:34.960 for surgery or something like that, like he's on a 164 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.759 surgical bed or something, he's listening to Vic Fontaine's music. 165 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:41.000 I think is the. 166 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:45.039 Connection to why he ends up retreating into the hollow 167 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:49.039 suite world of the Las Vegas Casino. 168 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:51.840 Yeah, very much so. 169 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.399 And let me just talk about the character of Nog 170 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.960 himself for a minute, because I think the fact that 171 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.320 it is Nog who goes through all this is very 172 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.960 important because, as I said, Nag was a really presented 173 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.799 as comic relief and as a reminder that the Ferengi 174 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.519 are different and weird and bad and frankly, it's not 175 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:12.879 my or I think a lot of people's favorite part 176 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.600 of episode of the early parts of d S nine 177 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.720 because you know, in a TV tactic that star Trek 178 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.000 was by no means unique in that was done all 179 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:24.720 the time. There's a lot of like, we're going to 180 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.200 have a character be super sexist and super awful, but 181 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.360 don't worry about it because we're doing it to mock him. 182 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.519 And and but yeah, he is the Fngi traditional Ferengi male. 183 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:38.200 If you don't know, there are species that believes that 184 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:39.919 like men are the only ones out in socith they're 185 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.759 very much kind of like supposed to be like nineteenth 186 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:46.440 century robber barons of American capitalism, but taken to an 187 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:49.600 anthic stream. So women are supposed to stay home and 188 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:51.879 never go out in public and never talk to anyone. 189 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:53.879 Uh, they're you. 190 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.960 Know, aren't allowed to wear clothes clothes exactly. 191 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.759 And and he's just really part of the show is 192 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.679 but the Frangie having to live in community with everyone else. 193 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.000 It's about everyone living in community with everyone else. And 194 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.720 he responds really badly to it. And over the years 195 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.759 they've given him more and more to do and allowed 196 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:15.200 him to become part of Starfleet and that he kind 197 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.639 of wanted to go into Starfleet Command. He's the first Fengi. 198 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:18.840 To do so. 199 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.159 I would say Star Trek loves the first. So we've 200 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:24.799 had so many characters who were the first of their 201 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.399 race to do warfing, which is definitely pretty good. Yeah, Wharf, 202 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.159 I think the Trill was like one of the first 203 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:36.639 Trills to go into Star Trek, you know, I think 204 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:37.720 Balana from Beijor. 205 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:40.159 We had a lot of these kind of things, and 206 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:41.679 he gets that kind of arc. 207 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.279 But he's always still It's always still a little o 208 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:46.840 haha this, you know, among other things. Nog is a 209 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.919 very short character. He's played by Aaron Eisenberg, who has 210 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.039 sadly passed away. But it was a very good actor, 211 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.559 especially in this issue in this episode, and he was 212 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.919 someone who had kidney problems as a teenager and that 213 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.600 stopped his growth at five foot so. 214 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.200 But he really makes that an important part of the character. 215 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.000 And in this. 216 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:11.799 I think the fact that it was Nag means so 217 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:15.679 much because part of the issue I think that happens 218 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:19.759 is that by joining Starfleet, remember everyone around him had said, 219 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:23.039 don't do this, this is a wrong idea, this is terrible, 220 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:27.399 And I think that definitely adds to the feelings he's 221 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:31.080 going through, because you know, when you're the person who 222 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.639 says I can do something that everyone else says you 223 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:36.879 shouldn't do, and you can't do, and then you wind 224 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.600 up doing it and something terrible happens, that only adds, 225 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:42.320 I think, in a lot of ways to the trauma 226 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:43.919 of it and the feeling of like, did I make 227 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:44.960 a terrible mistake? 228 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.720 And why you know the world wasn't as safe for 229 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:49.679 me as I thought it was. 230 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:52.039 Because I think, as you kind of mentioned, he's kind 231 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.519 of wide eyed and innocent, and he says that he 232 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.600 definitely has a sense of like, I'm watching this trauma 233 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:59.159 happening to other people, but I had that kind of 234 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.759 like young person invincibility feeling like that it could never 235 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:04.399 happen to me. And I think the fact that it's 236 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:07.120 him and that he's a Ferengi and they's so out 237 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:10.200 of his element means a lot in terms of why 238 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.039 he then after this accident, after this war wound, needs 239 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:15.399 to kind of go back and do kind of the 240 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:17.600 cocoon of his own making of like this is my 241 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:18.200 safe place. 242 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:26.639 Yeah, nog to me like this whole show. You know. 243 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.879 I could go on and on about why I love 244 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.639 Deep Space nine. One of the reasons is the redemption 245 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.440 of the Faringi race. They are introduced in Star Trek 246 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.320 the Next Generation, and like a lot of alien races 247 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.559 in Star Trek, they quickly became a mono culture caricature. 248 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:44.039 Right. 249 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.480 Klingons are all about honor, Romulans are all about treachery. 250 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:52.480 The Faringi are all about profit right, and like they 251 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:57.200 have a society, societal religion almost I guess where they 252 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:00.840 base everything around the rules of acquisition. You may have heard, 253 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:04.000 you know, there's a numbered like two hundred or something, 254 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.480 two hundred and fifty rules of Acquisition that they all 255 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.000 adhere to, and they're like little little Quippi sayings about 256 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:10.919 how to make money. 257 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:12.720 Yeah, it's basically their bible. 258 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:14.159 If you think about how someone will be like well, 259 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:17.120 Luke sixteen forty two says, you know, they do that 260 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:18.080 with the rules of acquisition. 261 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:25.799 And Nog and his father Ram both break away from 262 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:31.720 this profit based mentality. Ram joins the engineering staff. I 263 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.600 mean it becomes an engineer on the station. 264 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:34.120 He said. 265 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.679 You know, Nog joins Starfleet and ultimately becomes a soldier 266 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.360 in this case because they're at war with the Dominion. 267 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:48.559 And that's very important because again, like the not every 268 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:52.120 Feringhi should just be about profit, right, Not every Klingon 269 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.200 should be a warrior in a real, more realistic setting. 270 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.919 And these are shorthands that the show develops so that we, 271 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.440 you know, we have something to lean on. But when 272 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.879 you have the time to develop a character like this, 273 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.639 it's it's really so. 274 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:07.720 So much better. 275 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.399 Well, and that's why, And it's funny. I remember watching 276 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.039 this episode mostly being stuck, struck by the trauma and 277 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.320 the amputation aspects of it all also, and we're gonna 278 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:17.879 get to that. We have a lot to say about that, 279 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.240 but just going a little deeper on this because I 280 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:21.840 really noticed it on this watch through that I did 281 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:26.120 last night. I think, given everything we've just said, it 282 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.720 is so interesting that what Noog does. You know, again, 283 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.679 it's all this fictional world where it doesn't actually matter. 284 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.120 But in the fictional world, they've created the idea that 285 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:40.120 Vic Fontein is struggling with his finances yea, and Nog 286 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:42.519 winds up helping him with that and coming up with 287 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.559 actually all of these profit laiden plans, and Spacilli says 288 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.159 at one point when Vic says like, are you you know, 289 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.919 are you sure you're gonna be good enough to take 290 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.799 over the books? And he says, I'm a frangie, It's 291 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.639 in my blood. And that line hit me so hard 292 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.120 because I do think that is off and a strong 293 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.120 trauma response, especially after you know, trying to leave, like 294 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.399 you know, what your your your family taught you, or 295 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.279 what your culture taught you, and you've gone out into 296 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:13.320 the world and something bad has happened. Often part of 297 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:15.679 the first response can be Okay, let me let me 298 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.559 go back, let me let me go back to where 299 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:18.480 everything was safe. 300 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.919 And you know, it's just they don't. 301 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.120 Lampshade that that I'm taking a small little tidbit and 302 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:27.840 reading a lot into it, But it felt like it 303 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.320 was very intentional to have that little moment of part 304 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.720 of his response to all this is going back to 305 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.799 being a frangie in that kind of a way. And 306 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:38.320 to be clear, he doesn't go back to any of 307 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.679 the sexism or any of awful stuff, but just that 308 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:43.200 idea of like I'm a frangie, im good at profit 309 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.600 becomes a big part of his his like comfort zone. 310 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.440 Yeah, and I found it a good way to utilize 311 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:57.919 that monoculture trait, right. It It is still when you 312 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:01.480 think about it, kind of ridiculous, right, But if you 313 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:05.039 have that upbringing, he at least was like exposed to 314 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.480 enough things. And I think that's what they're saying, is 315 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:12.320 like it's not racially in their blood, Yeah, but that 316 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.559 he grew up in this culture that magnified profit. 317 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.080 To this degree. 318 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.120 So being put in this situation, even though it's nineteen 319 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:26.320 fifties Las Vegas Earth simulation, he understands, you know, the basics. 320 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.360 Of what to do right. 321 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.080 And I think it's also a nice statement again on this, 322 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.759 because I think you're right the monoculture ideas are not 323 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:38.039 very realistic. But also then the idea of I will 324 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.279 reject my monoculture and so my whole culture will be 325 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.559 about the rejection of that. 326 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:45.919 That does happen in the real world. 327 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.440 But it's not often the healthiest perspective, and that I 328 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.240 mean it can be in some ways, to be sure, 329 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.840 but sometimes people find the best sort of path when 330 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.240 they're able to say I'm rejecting all of the repression 331 00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.440 and rejecting all of the things that taught me to 332 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.480 not like mysel or whatever. But I'm also accepting that 333 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.599 there were things about how I grew up or my 334 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.200 culture or my connections that I do love or that 335 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.279 I do relate to outside of everything else that was 336 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:10.880 on top of it. 337 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.160 And I think that that's a part of where he goes. 338 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.559 Yeah, I agree, And now that we're talking about it, 339 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:20.680 I feel like this is actually maybe a representation of 340 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:26.559 diaspora in the real world where you see, like for me, 341 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.240 as an Asian American, like you see how the generation 342 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.759 born or that came, you know, after immigration to America 343 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.640 from Asia. A lot of these people who grew up 344 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:40.559 in the US and that's kind of all they know, 345 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.400 had this moment of like, but I do kind of 346 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:46.319 want to go back and reconnect with my roots. And 347 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.519 that's what he's doing because he's been he grew up 348 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.720 on Deep Space nine among Bajorans and humans and not 349 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:57.519 among f Ringi, right, so since maybe like early teens, 350 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.279 and so he's having this moment of reconnecting with this 351 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.160 culture in a healthy, positive way, as you said, and 352 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.400 not the misogynistic aspects of the culture. 353 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:09.240 Right. 354 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:13.759 So let's talk actually then about the what happens to 355 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.920 him and the trauma, the PTSD and the losing of 356 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.799 his leg. And I will name from the beginning that 357 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:23.680 I have a very biased perspective obviously on this, because 358 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.160 I can relate to what he's going through about halfway 359 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:32.279 in that I did have and that I did lose 360 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.680 my leg to amputation and a lot of the things, 361 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:36.880 and it was very traumatic, and a lot of the 362 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.319 things that he goes through are similar to what I've 363 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:41.319 gone through, But of course I've never been to war. 364 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.519 There's very different circumstances to which how I lost my 365 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:46.799 leg And I would not claim to have like war 366 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:49.599 caused PTSD in any of the same way as but 367 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:51.880 it's certainly something I know quite a lot about and 368 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:53.440 a lot of counseling the folks in that world, and 369 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.160 my own mental stuff is very similar to PTSD. So 370 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.160 just some of the things that I noticed early on 371 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.480 one was just this whole idea of how everyone was 372 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:08.400 unsure of what to say to him, and that there 373 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.200 were things that people were saying, Well, let me ask you, 374 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.359 like what was your response to people like his family 375 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:21.000 and Jake and Jake's girlfriend Kiara trying to sort of 376 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.960 offer him words of help and him rejecting them. 377 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.440 It was painful to watch, and obviously like that's the 378 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.839 point in this episode, But what I really felt was 379 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:42.240 so many of those characters were civilians, right yeah, and 380 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:45.160 I don't I don't recall like if they gave him 381 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.799 if there was like a starfleet like soldier character who 382 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.319 tried to reach out to him, like, did did Chief 383 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.680 O'Brien talk to him? Because that's that's who I would 384 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.599 think of as like a veteran who has seen war 385 00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:58.079 and like. 386 00:19:58.039 --> 00:19:59.880 Has had some trauma over it. 387 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.839 We saw it, and I think Next Generation where he 388 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.200 has like a very racist response to Cardassians because he 389 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:07.359 fought against them. 390 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.480 Yeah, and he does talk to Obrian briefly, but it's 391 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.880 about vic Fontaine and we'll get to. 392 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.200 That of oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 393 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.119 And I'm really glad you picked up on that, because 394 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.200 I do think a lot of the times this is 395 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:23.440 portrayed as everyone around the person is doing their absolute 396 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.079 best and is saying really helpful good things, but the 397 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.920 person with PTSD is being a jerk and rejecting them all. 398 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.720 And I do think everyone is tronging their best. I think, 399 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.839 do you think everyone is trying to help? But I 400 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.000 think what this show portrayed and what I really related 401 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.039