Speaker 1: What a strange week this is becoming, and one that
Speaker 1: needs to be considered. I'm preparing to tour with the
Speaker 1: last tour group of the year earth Asients Mexico, the
Speaker 1: Sacred Mexican Temple Tour. That's going to be the eighth
Speaker 1: through the fifteenth of November, and I'm going to get
Speaker 1: on a plane. The other issue is I have a
Speaker 1: apartment that is being updated and they're rebuilding the kitchen
Speaker 1: and the bathroom and the floors and the rugs and everything.
Speaker 1: And so I'm packing right now and I didn't realize
Speaker 1: I had so much. I'll just say it crap. And
Speaker 1: I'm giving this stuff, all this stuff away, And you know,
Speaker 1: it's very freeing when you pack up and you start
Speaker 1: throwing stuff away. And of course you can imagine that
Speaker 1: I have literally bookshelves of books and magazines and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, because I'm always on the go looking for
Speaker 1: the newest author's newest material, and publishers just dailyg me.
Speaker 1: Each week I get between three and five books, so
Speaker 1: I try to keep some and I give a lot away. Luckily,
Speaker 1: I have a friend that is at the local college
Speaker 1: and he's giving them away to students and selling some
Speaker 1: and so. But you know, when you move, you really
Speaker 1: got to figure out what you want to keep, what
Speaker 1: you don't want to keep. And this has been the
Speaker 1: issue for the last couple of weeks, is just getting
Speaker 1: rid of stuff. And I'll tell you it's freeing. It
Speaker 1: is very freeing. Hey, welcome to Earth Ancients. This is Cliff,
Speaker 1: your host. I hope you're doing well today, and I
Speaker 1: am again on the move. I'm excited about this trip
Speaker 1: to Mexico because I'm writing about Mexican culture, I should
Speaker 1: say Maya in the culture. And this is a real
Speaker 1: fabulous topic for me because this book is allowing me
Speaker 1: to express years of energy work that I've been doing.
Speaker 1: I trained as a reiki teacher. Actually I was a
Speaker 1: practitioner for about five years and became a teacher later.
Speaker 1: Although I don't teach anymore, my ex wife does. We
Speaker 1: both had a business. And when you use reiki, you're
Speaker 1: actually amplifying this natural energy field that we all have
Speaker 1: known as the universal life force. Energy. Now, the Maya
Speaker 1: call it something else, the Chinese call it something else,
Speaker 1: the Tibetans call it energy fields. And one of the
Speaker 1: great activity that I like doing when I'm down in
Speaker 1: the Yucatan is taking my compass and placing it on
Speaker 1: the base of pyramids, temples and buildings that I get
Speaker 1: a little hit on. And when that when that activity
Speaker 1: hits the body of the compass, it begins spinning and
Speaker 1: then I then I can tell people, hey, sit here,
Speaker 1: if you're interested in meditating, get a sense and what
Speaker 1: we are now understanding. And I got to tell you this.
Speaker 1: Most archaeologists just think I'm nuts. But if you are
Speaker 1: at all familiar with the shaman and the history of
Speaker 1: the Maya, there is a period there's a science involved
Speaker 1: in the creation of these pyramids. They do do not
Speaker 1: lay out their cities randomly. Typically it's a sensitive known
Speaker 1: as a shaman or otherwise known as a daykeeper, the
Speaker 1: calendar ocole or the calendar calendar readers and creators. These
Speaker 1: guys place their cities, their temples and pyramids over lay
Speaker 1: lines which are tollric field energy centers. And so when
Speaker 1: we go down to Yucatan, we're looking at the pyramids
Speaker 1: and we're wanting to know if they're active. I know
Speaker 1: there's a handful of that are active, but there's new
Speaker 1: areas that are being discovered constantly. And when you go
Speaker 1: to these new areas. It's important to bring a compass
Speaker 1: so you can you can check on the energy field.
Speaker 1: Some people who have resources can purchase a filled analyzer
Speaker 1: which you can adjust to geomagnetic energy fields. And we
Speaker 1: see this in England when we go to the stone circles.
Speaker 1: You can testament the Stonehenge, Avebury or any of the
Speaker 1: typical stone circle sites and you typically are going to
Speaker 1: pick up a hell of a lot of energy. Now,
Speaker 1: there's a funny story that I tell when I first
Speaker 1: went down to Chichiita at the invitation of an elder
Speaker 1: named Humbat's men who wanted to show me the city.
Speaker 1: It's a long story. I won't get into the details,
Speaker 1: but I had a girlfriend with me in those days,
Speaker 1: and this is nineteen ninety six. In those days, you
Speaker 1: could climb the pyramids. You could climb El Castillo at
Speaker 1: chichen Itza. So we're getting a tour and he says,
Speaker 1: climb the pyramid and sit up there at the top
Speaker 1: for you know, a little bit of time and just
Speaker 1: kind of take it all in. Well, we climbed to
Speaker 1: the top, which is very our challenging because it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost at a forty five degree angle. The stairs
Speaker 1: are small. What they do for you is they give
Speaker 1: you or there is a chain that's attached to the
Speaker 1: top end of the bottom that you used to go
Speaker 1: up and down in those days. That was the key.
Speaker 1: If you don't have that, you're in serious trouble going
Speaker 1: down because it's really steep and it's it's it's treacherous
Speaker 1: scary actually. Anyhow, so my girlfriend and I get to
Speaker 1: the top and we're sitting and looking and after about
Speaker 1: ten minutes, we're hit with this wave and it's a
Speaker 1: wave of energy and I've never felt anything like it,
Speaker 1: but I was. I was stunned and I was disorientated.
Speaker 1: It was very, very odd. We both took another twenty
Speaker 1: minutes maybe I think it might have even been thirty
Speaker 1: minutes to kind of reorientate ourselves, and we climbed back
Speaker 1: down the pyramid. Now that's not the end of the story.
Speaker 1: Were we both were asking whom boughts this mayan elder,
Speaker 1: what we are experiencing, and he told us that we
Speaker 1: had experienced one of the pulsating this energy and there's
Speaker 1: certain times of the day where it's higher than lower.
Speaker 1: So I didn't think anything of it. That night. I
Speaker 1: had a tremendous number of odd dreams. But what happened
Speaker 1: to my girlfriend was she started administrating. She started having
Speaker 1: she had her period and it was not normal. We
Speaker 1: had to go run against some pads and and take
Speaker 1: care of her. But it affected her on a physical level.
Speaker 1: And what they have discovered is that these energy fields
Speaker 1: are biocentric. They're designed to enhance the body, to heal
Speaker 1: the body, to open these energy centers that are are
Speaker 1: around the body. You cannot climb the pyramids anymore, but
Speaker 1: there are certain areas where you can. We will be
Speaker 1: definitely climbing ek Balam, which is close to chichen itza
Speaker 1: smaller site, because that's that pyramids available. But the pyramid
Speaker 1: at Ushmahl is not available anymore. Cha No, So if
Speaker 1: and when you get a chance to go to these pyramids,
Speaker 1: if you don't have a compass, then just see if
Speaker 1: you can climb them. Because this is extremely important. I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk a little bit about this energy field
Speaker 1: to the group, and I'm sure I'll get some pushback
Speaker 1: from the archaeologists that are in the group, but hey,
Speaker 1: you've got to be open to this because this is
Speaker 1: a science and a physics that is slowly making itself
Speaker 1: aware to us. I speak of John Burke. John Burke
Speaker 1: was in Chi in Guatemala at tical tested a number
Speaker 1: of pyramids that were newer tested the old ones, and
Speaker 1: the old ones are really charged and pushing out lots
Speaker 1: of energy and other places too. So this is important.
Speaker 1: This is very very important to talk about to get
Speaker 1: clarification on. And we have a couple of people that
Speaker 1: are coming up before the end of the year that
Speaker 1: are scientists that can confirm the temples that are sitting
Speaker 1: on these unusual lay lines or energy fields, and how
Speaker 1: and how they are making themselves known as not only
Speaker 1: healing spots for the locals, but they're being identified by
Speaker 1: these scientists for people in the general public to go
Speaker 1: and visit, kind of like Lords in France, where you
Speaker 1: go and you bathe in the water. That water has
Speaker 1: been charged. These temples are charged and they charge you.
Speaker 1: And this is why it's really important, and this is
Speaker 1: what I write about in this book the Maya controversy,
Speaker 1: because the Maya were energy scientists and they had a
Speaker 1: different science and physics that we just don't understand. So
Speaker 1: I'm looking again, I'm looking forward to this tour and
Speaker 1: it's going to be a blast, and I'll report back
Speaker 1: to you with photographs and views and other comprehensive data
Speaker 1: on the Maya, all things of Maya. And by the way,
Speaker 1: Ed Barnhardt, if you haven't seen it, is on at
Speaker 1: least one episode of Ancient Apocalypse too, and he's giving
Speaker 1: Graham the overview of the Maya. He doesn't get into energy.
Speaker 1: That's not Ed's thing, but he's at Polanki and Polanki
Speaker 1: has a couple of pyramids that have wonderful energy energy
Speaker 1: fields to experience, so check that out. My guest today
Speaker 1: is doctor Heather Land. We haven't had Heather on for
Speaker 1: Jesus a couple of years. She is talking about the
Speaker 1: the Templar Knights of Europe and what we're gonna focus
Speaker 1: on today is a symbology that they used, that they enhanced,
Speaker 1: that they were seeking and it's known as the Baphomet,
Speaker 1: and we are gonna learn about the symbology of it.
Speaker 1: We're going to learn how they captured it, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna learn how they used it and were very secretive
Speaker 1: of it because they lived in a time that was barbaric.
Speaker 1: And today you're gonna learn just how important this is
Speaker 1: and why it's being revived. So today's program is Baphamet Revealed,
Speaker 1: and my guest is doctor Heather Lynn. It's great to
Speaker 1: have Heather Lin, doctor Heather Lyn on the program. And
Speaker 1: she is writing Like the Wildfire and has a new
Speaker 1: book that she is releasing called Baphamet Revealed. It's a
Speaker 1: new book, and I wanted to have her on the
Speaker 1: program because it's been a while and Heather's very active,
Speaker 1: as many of you know. And this new book deals
Speaker 1: with a great subject, one that I really appreciate, which
Speaker 1: is the Templar Knights, but not just the Templar Knights
Speaker 1: as a general point of view, but some of their beliefs,
Speaker 1: perhaps their practices, sacred practices. And this is what makes
Speaker 1: us new books so fascinating, is that Heather has taken
Speaker 1: a deep dive and is looking at it from a
Speaker 1: number of different esoteric angles, which I appreciate. So Heather,
Speaker 1: welcome to I should say, welcome back to Earth Ancients.
Speaker 2: How you doing, I'm will How are you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing great?
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about this book. What was your inspiration?
Speaker 1: I mean you you reference this French Catholic priest named Levy.
Speaker 1: But was was that the were you reading and Levee
Speaker 1: came up in some in some passages or was it
Speaker 1: more that you wanted to take a deep dive into
Speaker 1: this esoteric subject and how the Templar Knights applied this.
Speaker 3: Well, it does seem a little unusual of a subject, probably,
Speaker 3: And a lot of people have asked me, how have
Speaker 3: you gone from writing on a Naki material and all
Speaker 3: of this stuff to a cult or something as scary
Speaker 3: as a baphomet? And that's an interesting story, uh, But
Speaker 3: it kind of has to do more with the fact
Speaker 3: that over time, as I've been researching some of the
Speaker 3: more esoteric or even religious ideas of ancient people, there
Speaker 3: are some constant themes. And what I try to do
Speaker 3: is look at the whole situation as a phenomena as
Speaker 3: opposed to getting too wrapped up in the say, mask
Speaker 3: of the situation. So, like Joseph Campbell referenced the hero
Speaker 3: with a thousand faces, we do get these phenomenas that
Speaker 3: we as individuals, over time and different cultures, we put
Speaker 3: different names to different masks, so to speak, different icons
Speaker 3: and symbols, and then sometimes we just get those confused
Speaker 3: with one another, and we don't see the actual underlying truth.
Speaker 3: And so, for instance, when I'm researching something like say aliens,
Speaker 3: I find that often I'm also researching angels, demons, gin
Speaker 3: and a whole host of other creatures, so to speak.
Speaker 3: So rather than look at those things individually alone, I
Speaker 3: try to look at the underlying phenomenology of the experience
Speaker 3: that people are having. And you kind of see that,
Speaker 3: you know, this is kind of the same, or at
Speaker 3: least there's a lot of similarities between these experiences. And
Speaker 3: one religion may call it one thing, one culture may
Speaker 3: call it another. But you just see this over and
Speaker 3: over again. And so I had a natural progression, so
Speaker 3: to speak, into looking more into the metaphysical side of
Speaker 3: the cultural materials that we look at. And so I
Speaker 3: tend to study cognitive archaeology anyway, and so it just
Speaker 3: seemed like a fit. So looking at the symbols, I
Speaker 3: just I started saying, Wow, I see these things coming
Speaker 3: up again, not the symbols per se, but the underlying messaging,
Speaker 3: the things like the positions of the symbols, how they're.
Speaker 2: Being used, the memes, so to speak.
Speaker 3: The and I mean that in like the Richard Dawkins
Speaker 3: sense not the comical memes, but the mimetics of it,
Speaker 3: and I start looking and saying, you know, these have commonalities.
Speaker 3: And then it just so happened that I saw a
Speaker 3: news article about parents being very upset because in Target
Speaker 3: they were selling T shirts with like cute little baphomets
Speaker 3: on it. And I say cute because they were neat
Speaker 3: nice cartoon drawings of this usually spooky creature that some
Speaker 3: call it a demon or an evil deity, and they
Speaker 3: were very upset about it, and I thought, oh, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's interesting story, isn't it. Why would they put that
Speaker 3: on children's clothes? But you know whatever, they're being edgy.
Speaker 3: But then why is that considered edgy? Well, probably because
Speaker 3: of its connotation with Satanism, because the Church of Satan
Speaker 3: uses Baha met as it's kind of logo in a
Speaker 3: lot of ways. They use a sigil it's based off
Speaker 3: of Bapphamet. And then the question is, well, why is
Speaker 3: it Satanic?
Speaker 2: And what's what is going on here?
Speaker 3: And you see it kind of creeping up in all
Speaker 3: of these different, even contemporary contexts, and I just got
Speaker 3: curious about it, but I kind of put it aside
Speaker 3: and as I research more, I see, if anyone remembers
Speaker 3: my book Evil Archaeology, the cover of that has Pazuzu
Speaker 3: on it, which is a Mesopotamian demon of the southwest wind,
Speaker 3: and he is standing in the position that you find
Speaker 3: on the in the amulets, where he has one hand
Speaker 3: up in one hand pointing down, and a very recognizable sense,
Speaker 3: you know, a gesture that basically looks like what Baphomet's doing.
Speaker 3: You also see this in some paintings of like the
Speaker 3: Apotheosis of George Washington. You see even Jesus doing this.
Speaker 3: So you start to think, well, what is going on here?
Speaker 3: What do all these things have in common? And it
Speaker 3: just naturally led me to this figure over and over again,
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, it's very controversial. People are very
Speaker 3: upset about it, and so of course naturally I'm drawn
Speaker 3: to controversial and upsetting things. And I thought, well, the
Speaker 3: best thing we can do to tackle fear is to
Speaker 3: understand it. And so that's sort of the purpose of
Speaker 3: the book. It's not to be a promotion of the symbol,
Speaker 3: it's not to denigrate the symbol. It's just simply a
Speaker 3: historiography of looking at this controversial symbol, trying to find
Speaker 3: where did it begin and what does it represent and
Speaker 3: why has it had this seemingly long life and what
Speaker 3: can we learn from that. So hopefully it's more of
Speaker 3: an introduction, so it's not the biggest book. There's many
Speaker 3: other books on the topic that go on a deep,
Speaker 3: deep dive that's meant for people who are very much
Speaker 3: involved in sagnosticism or otherwise. That is not this book.
Speaker 3: This book is if you have no idea what Baphamet is,
Speaker 3: this is to introduce you to the idea in a
Speaker 3: hopefully objective and open way.
Speaker 1: Before we talk about the Templars, let's describe Baphamet as
Speaker 1: a symbol. It's a goat's head with a human's body.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that's described and you don't
Speaker 1: see it, it's a hermaphrodite, which is male and female genitalia.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure was it Alfis Levi that designed
Speaker 1: and assigned the hermaphrodite identity to this figure.
Speaker 3: Yes, essentially that is where the symbol gets its imagery
Speaker 3: and iconography. So, as you mentioned, it starts with the
Speaker 3: story of the Templars and the first mentions that we
Speaker 3: have of it go all the way back to the
Speaker 3: Templar trials, and so this was one of the things
Speaker 3: that was brought up in the transcripts of the trials,
Speaker 3: that the templars were being accused of worshiping this idol,
Speaker 3: and the idol was called Baphomet, and so from that
Speaker 3: point it's you know, you could look at the bafa
Speaker 3: Met we see now and say, well, that's what they
Speaker 3: were worshiping, But you have to remember then that image
Speaker 3: that we know as Bahamet wasn't the image that the
Speaker 3: templars had. And so when you read the transcripts of
Speaker 3: the trials, you find they had a description of what
Speaker 3: it was that the templars were worshiping, actually many descriptions,
Speaker 3: and they were very different than say, a goat headed
Speaker 3: androgynous being. One of those was a floating head with
Speaker 3: a beard, so something just very strange and different. Another
Speaker 3: accusation was that they were worshiping a cat. So they
Speaker 3: couldn't really get the story completely correct because some of
Speaker 3: the time complers admitted to worshiping one deity and others didn't,
Speaker 3: and there was a lot of miscommunication because they were
Speaker 3: being tortured, of course, and so it's really hard to
Speaker 3: know what was an actual confession what was not. But
Speaker 3: if you look at what they were accused of, they
Speaker 3: were accused of heresy and they were accused of worshiping
Speaker 3: this idol. So the question is what is this idol?
Speaker 3: And there are a lot of theories and a lot
Speaker 3: of ideas, and one of the most popular has been
Speaker 3: this charge that they were in the Middle East for
Speaker 3: so long that they started to assimilate a bit or
Speaker 3: at least have exposure to different forms of Islamic mysticism
Speaker 3: and gnosticism, and what they started to do was syncretize
Speaker 3: Christianity with Islam more so bend in a gnostic or
Speaker 3: mystic sort of sense. And they were caught or overheard
Speaker 3: worshiping Mohammed, and so the idea of Bahamet being a
Speaker 3: mistranslation of a word that was overheard of them worshiping Mahammet.
Speaker 3: That is where it's believed that Bahamet comes from. But
Speaker 3: that's not the only idea. Some of it has to
Speaker 3: do more with understanding Sophia in gnosticism and the relationship
Speaker 3: with Bahamet and that so it's it's really murky, and
Speaker 3: a lot of people have made a lot of suggestions,
Speaker 3: and none of them weren't actually from a primary source.
Speaker 3: The only real primary source that we have or the
Speaker 3: accusations in the Templar trial transcripts, which are available actually
Speaker 3: online to read, which.
Speaker 1: Is I can't believe that there's actual transcripts of these
Speaker 1: trials because they're terrible. Let's talk a little bit. Let's
Speaker 1: give a little highlight on the Templar Knights. One of
Speaker 1: the things that people don't realize is that they became
Speaker 1: financial wizards and grew very wealthy and powerful, and they
Speaker 1: were loaning money. And I guess one of the big
Speaker 1: problem areas was that they loaned King Philip the fourth
Speaker 1: of France a ton of money and he became very
Speaker 1: indebted and he decided, rather than pay them back, that
Speaker 1: he was going to go out and basically crush them.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that period of tasks, like
Speaker 1: it's like a thousand a d right ron.
Speaker 3: The Templars were founded in eleven nineteen, so this had
Speaker 3: been and so they had a while to sort of
Speaker 3: build this wealth and build this reputation. And they were
Speaker 3: initially employed to help protect travelers and pilgrims that would
Speaker 3: go to the Middle East, and in this as well,
Speaker 3: they had adversaries. Those adversaries were who were known as
Speaker 3: the Assassins. It's where we get the word assass and
Speaker 3: these were sort of there were a group of Muslim Assassins,
Speaker 3: people who were practicing a different form of mysticism as well.
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, they were using Hashish since the etymology of
Speaker 3: the name Assassins, and they were kind of enemies of
Speaker 3: the templars because they were not happy with the templars
Speaker 3: being there. They were the ones also attacking some pilgrims.
Speaker 3: But the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and
Speaker 3: so they did end up forming somewhat of an alliance,
Speaker 3: it's believed, and so this became another thing that allowed
Speaker 3: them to have this big control and power over the region.
Speaker 3: And as you said, they started having a lot of money.
Speaker 3: They were you could consider them some of the first
Speaker 3: banking elite, and so they did hold the purse strings
Speaker 3: and they loaned money to king, they loaned money to
Speaker 3: the church back. The church wanted to get rid of
Speaker 3: them so bad, but they had the money.
Speaker 2: So it is believed that.
Speaker 3: They weren't worshiping Baphamet at all, but that this was
Speaker 3: just some sort of ploy to get them to be
Speaker 3: guilty to something so they have the justification to condemn
Speaker 3: them for at least even treason, so that they could
Speaker 3: be killed and dispensed with. But they they this would
Speaker 3: That happened in thirteen oh seven, So we're talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, a long time of the Templar reality being
Speaker 3: that they were gaining power and gaining wealth and gaining
Speaker 3: influence even though they were supposed to be very impoverished.
Speaker 3: Their their symbol had two templars riding a horse to
Speaker 3: suggest that they were just ease.
Speaker 1: Like a vow of poverty is almost what they were
Speaker 1: trying to show people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they had this valve of poverty, but everybody
Speaker 3: kind of knew that they were extraordinarily wealthy. And they reigned,
Speaker 3: so to speak, and in secrecy for a long time,
Speaker 3: and it was enough time that they gained their own
Speaker 3: sense of spirituality through religious syncretism, and they posed a
Speaker 3: huge threat to the order of the Catholic Church, and
Speaker 3: the politics at the time.
Speaker 1: Talk a bit about because these are unique individuals. They're
Speaker 1: warrior monks, which is just so out of character because
Speaker 1: you think of a monk as someone who doesn't who
Speaker 1: abhors violence and killing in war. But these guys were
Speaker 1: highly trained soldiers and warriors. But what I want more
Speaker 1: information on in what you uncovered is how did they
Speaker 1: switch into the esoteric studies, these sacred studies that everyone's
Speaker 1: curious about and thousands of books have been written on
Speaker 1: this bent towards the occult.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good question, because I don't know
Speaker 3: that there's a clear line of evolution, if you want
Speaker 3: to call it that. But they they started out being
Speaker 3: definitely trained as warriors. They were looked at as potentially
Speaker 3: martyrs if necessary, very very violent. It was a military order.
Speaker 3: But over time the need for the military aspect of
Speaker 3: it sort of declined, you know, considering this was like
Speaker 3: over the course of almost two hundred years and in
Speaker 3: some cases two hundred years, the original need that they
Speaker 3: thought they had to go into Jerusalem and you know,
Speaker 3: fight and do all of this. Once they actually reached
Speaker 3: their destination, then the then the rest of it was like,
Speaker 3: and now what do we do? And so there was
Speaker 3: this great fervor in the beginning to get recruits to
Speaker 3: go on on these crusades into the Middle East and
Speaker 3: to take up the sword and to go out there
Speaker 3: and fight, and it was a very harrowing and heroic
Speaker 3: adventure in their minds. And it was because think of
Speaker 3: the travel, think of the immense dangers that they faced.
Speaker 3: So they had that push, they got through it, and
Speaker 3: then they started to have to figure out what's the
Speaker 3: next step, and so kind of like I would kind
Speaker 3: of look at it more like what happened with the Freemasons,
Speaker 3: generally speaking. When the Freemasons start out as a Masonic guild,
Speaker 3: so workers coming together in the time where many people
Speaker 3: were developing guilds. It was a very practical thing, learning
Speaker 3: new skills, keeping trade secrets so that you would have power,
Speaker 3: so that you would be able to negotiate different things,
Speaker 3: and very practical in its goals. But over time, when
Speaker 3: that need maybe isn't so much, but for various socioeconomic
Speaker 3: reasons or however, the organization doesn't just cease to exist
Speaker 3: and Freemasonry it switched it's focus to speculative freemasonry, and
Speaker 3: so you have this more of a brotherhood, a philosophy angle,
Speaker 3: a political angle in some cases. So they continue to
Speaker 3: be a guild, but they go into this more spiritual mindset.
Speaker 3: So I think that that may have been akin to
Speaker 3: what was going on with the templars. And initially they
Speaker 3: had this very utilitarian, very practical, a very romantic in
Speaker 3: their mind's view of what they were going to do
Speaker 3: that required military prowess, and they went over time and
Speaker 3: accomplished that, and then what and so being exposed to
Speaker 3: all of the new ideas where they were located and
Speaker 3: the new people, that was very I mean that happens often.
Speaker 3: You could see that in Sumer. You could see that
Speaker 3: in any situation where there's an influx of new people
Speaker 3: and their ideas kind of merged together and syncretize. And
Speaker 3: so I think it was a natural progression, shall we say.
Speaker 1: You say that their interest in esoteric topics and power
Speaker 1: symbols like say the Cup of Christ, which is featured
Speaker 1: in a number of movies, is a true description of
Speaker 1: their desires to gain some sacred spiritual power through these artifacts.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to speculate a lot here, and what
Speaker 3: I'm going to say about that is that I think
Speaker 3: like the very beginning of their mission and they being
Speaker 3: like they're not a monolith. I mean, again, this happened
Speaker 3: over a long period, but I think generally speaking, the
Speaker 3: initial draw is to do something very practical, something say
Speaker 3: taking over conquest and area whatever power.
Speaker 2: In the physical form.
Speaker 3: But then over time, once that power has maybe been realized,
Speaker 3: then there's this inclination to go to the next level,
Speaker 3: shall we say, so, I think it's definitely a power move.
Speaker 3: It's looking for more power. If you think of it
Speaker 3: like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you can consider that once
Speaker 3: they have secure all of the basic fundamental material needs
Speaker 3: through the conquest, through whatever it is that they were doing,
Speaker 3: now what you know they're looking for meaning self actualization,
Speaker 3: They're looking for something else. It becomes transcendent and more
Speaker 3: spiritual in nature. So I think that in this case,
Speaker 3: in particular with the templars looking for artifacts, I think
Speaker 3: some may have gone out looking for the specific artifact
Speaker 3: thinking it may have a magical power, but definitely looking
Speaker 3: for the artifact itself.
Speaker 2: But over time, as.
Speaker 3: Their ideas maybe evolved or changed, given the exposure they
Speaker 3: had to other idea sets, they in my view, got
Speaker 3: a little more esoteric and occult oriented in their quest
Speaker 3: for power. That they saw that it wasn't a materialist
Speaker 3: worldview as they once thought. That it wasn't necessarily the
Speaker 3: cup so to speak. That they were looking for things
Speaker 3: that were more hidden, something that was more symbolic, and
Speaker 3: going more towards that ancient hidden wisdom. And so I
Speaker 3: think they were influenced by the mystics of the time
Speaker 3: and more open to that thinking since they had already
Speaker 3: kind of won in their minds the material sense. So
Speaker 3: it's sort of like the Nazis. They were doing the
Speaker 3: same thing. So they had the onerbe they're looking for
Speaker 3: the spear of destiny? Are they looking for the spear?
Speaker 3: Because it's actually magical perhaps some people. But there is
Speaker 3: something to be said for the illusion of power when
Speaker 3: you get to a point where already having all your needs,
Speaker 3: Matt and you're kind of in an elite position where
Speaker 3: you are looking now at something more transcendent, and whether
Speaker 3: that's a real power or not, I don't know is
Speaker 3: necessarily important to dwell on. I think it's important if
Speaker 3: people in positions of power believe it, because they'll have
Speaker 3: real world consequences. So I always say, you know, people
Speaker 3: will say to me things like, well, who cares if
Speaker 3: like the so called elite are likening aliens, or they're
Speaker 3: trying to do psychedelics to contact the clockwork elves or whatever.
Speaker 2: Who cares, right, I'm like, well, yes, I get it.
Speaker 3: But whether or not these things are real doesn't matter,
Speaker 3: because if people in positions of power who are able
Speaker 3: to make decisions and push policy, they believe these things
Speaker 3: to be real and they use that to inform their decisions,
Speaker 3: then we have a problem.
Speaker 2: Also, if it is real.
Speaker 3: And they maybe have access to information we don't, well
Speaker 3: then we also have a problem. So either way, I
Speaker 3: think it's a problem worth investigation. But with the Templars,
Speaker 3: I think that they were definitely looking for the material
Speaker 3: at first, and then they realized through the introduction of
Speaker 3: some of these perennial philosophies that they encountered through different
Speaker 3: religions and philosophies and thinkers of the time, that they
Speaker 3: were looking for something else. Because remember, in Islam it's
Speaker 3: an Abrahamic faith.
Speaker 2: They have their.
Speaker 3: Own view of Jesus and what happened on the cross,
Speaker 3: and what happened they had in the golden age of Islam.
Speaker 3: They kept all these fantastic records. They have this fount
Speaker 3: of knowledge that was anchored in Western thought enough that
Speaker 3: the Templars could recognize it and so it could look
Speaker 3: something very true to them. Like Platonic writings or something
Speaker 3: like Kabbalah or whatever. It would look very interesting to
Speaker 3: them to think, Wow, this, this resonates somehow, this this
Speaker 3: is I think this could be true.
Speaker 2: So whether or not it's true or.
Speaker 3: Not, I think that just opened them up to the
Speaker 3: possibilities of their quest being something not just spiritual in
Speaker 3: a religious sense, but more metaphysical and more transcendent in
Speaker 3: some sort of greater scheme.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 1: our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
Speaker 1: with my guest today, doctor Heather Lynn, discussing her new
Speaker 1: book bapha Met Revealwil We'll be right back. My guest
Speaker 1: today is doctor Heather Land, who has written a new
Speaker 1: book on the Templar Knights called Baphamet Revealed. And we're
Speaker 1: getting details as to just how this symbology, this energy
Speaker 1: was used by the Knights throughout Europe. It's funny you
Speaker 1: bring up the Nazi and you actually mentioned Heimrich Himmler
Speaker 1: seeking these gifts and these items that are attributed to
Speaker 1: the Templar Knights. Is he looking for documents? Do you
Speaker 1: think or is it true that he is looking for
Speaker 1: the knife of whatever, the spear of Destiny, and these
Speaker 1: other strange objects that are featured in so many strange
Speaker 1: movies that we have today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. I think that Himmler believed
Speaker 3: in the power of these items. I think that some
Speaker 3: people maybe didn't, but they were interested in getting with
Speaker 3: the symbol itself holding onto the spear of Destiny or
Speaker 3: even the Holy Grail, because that could look like, you know,
Speaker 3: now I have this power, and it's just a very
Speaker 3: strong symbolic thing. So it could just be that. But
Speaker 3: Himler himself, he was very very much into the belief
Speaker 3: of of the occult and magic.
Speaker 2: And so on.
Speaker 3: So I think that Himmler really did believe that what
Speaker 3: he was doing would be finding these treasures from the
Speaker 3: templars and being able to maybe harness their power. But
Speaker 3: also I think probably more what they were looking for
Speaker 3: were connections that could be made to legitimize their theories
Speaker 3: about where they came from or where we came from
Speaker 3: all individually as a species. It was, yes, and so
Speaker 3: they were very much interested in this, and they it
Speaker 3: was not just racial science of the day back then,
Speaker 3: where it was like, well, let's you know, measure and
Speaker 3: look at phenotypes and judge, et cetera. There was a
Speaker 3: deep occult underpinning to it because of their adherents and
Speaker 3: interest in ideas that were maybe a little theosophical at
Speaker 3: the time, so like root races, the idea of Atlantis
Speaker 3: and Lemuria and mu in all of these places having
Speaker 3: to be associated with where the Aryan race and this
Speaker 3: came from. So they always had a mystical edge, even
Speaker 3: if all of the Nazis didn't. And that's another important
Speaker 3: thing to point out is that an average person who
Speaker 3: was in say Berlin at the time, and maybe they
Speaker 3: were an part of the Nazi party card carrying member,
Speaker 3: it does not mean that they believed any of this.
Speaker 3: It means that they were believing the outward facing, the exoteric.
Speaker 3: They were believing and having a strong Germany and getting
Speaker 3: rid of all these people, and they were going through
Speaker 3: their own thing and all of the stuff that we
Speaker 3: would consider unfortunate and terrible, but the norm and human behavior,
Speaker 3: things like territory issues or racism or all of this.
Speaker 2: But the people the very very.
Speaker 3: Top, there was a group of individuals Himmler and others
Speaker 3: who were not necessarily motivated by just that, but the
Speaker 3: root of the motivation was deeply a cult and magical,
Speaker 3: and so much so he builds a castle, and he
Speaker 3: associates himself with all of these different nights of the
Speaker 3: round table and just wild things.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So, I usually like to remind people that we're not
Speaker 3: far from that. That if we look at systems of
Speaker 3: power and we think that there may not be individuals
Speaker 3: in there that also hold different, possibly dangerous beliefs, maybe
Speaker 3: magical beliefs, and we're just deluding ourselves. Don't let us
Speaker 3: suit or a uniform or a position of power convince
Speaker 3: you that there aren't elites in positions who are maybe
Speaker 3: trying to find a spear of destiny or the Sumerian
Speaker 3: King's list or tablet of destinies, or who knows what?
Speaker 1: Would you say that the knights were using the Baphomet
Speaker 1: to not only pursue hidden knowledge, but to wield it
Speaker 1: in some way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, so.
Speaker 1: So how would they wield it?
Speaker 3: Well, if they are believing that this is a form
Speaker 3: of wisdom and magic, that they would be able to
Speaker 3: get the hinosis of some sort, and then that would
Speaker 3: give them ultimate power.
Speaker 2: And I think again, if.
Speaker 3: They have already felt as though they had so much
Speaker 3: power in that they had the money. They had control
Speaker 3: over the church in a lot of ways because they
Speaker 3: had the money. Where else do you go. They had
Speaker 3: their adversary, which was you know, the people in the area,
Speaker 3: particularly in the assassins, but they made an alliance with them,
Speaker 3: so over and over you see that they're getting what
Speaker 3: it was that they want. They kept coming into their
Speaker 3: own power. So what's left, right, So what's left is
Speaker 3: that they want now this metaphysical power. They want to transcend,
Speaker 3: They want to become like gods.
Speaker 1: So if I study Eastern philosophy and I meditate and
Speaker 1: yoga and things like that. But if you are wielding
Speaker 1: a sacred esoteric knowledge, are you trying to have of
Speaker 1: power over other people, which is a perverted form of power,
Speaker 1: or are you trying to enhance the human being in
Speaker 1: some capacity so that they are have evolved in some way.
Speaker 3: That's a great question, and that really depends on the
Speaker 3: so called practitioner. And that's where we get ideas of
Speaker 3: say left and right hand path, or this idea of
Speaker 3: being a magician. There's so much discussion in that realm
Speaker 3: already that yes, there's power just as a neutral thing,
Speaker 3: and then there's what do you do when you have
Speaker 3: that power? Do you use it over others or do
Speaker 3: you use it.
Speaker 2: To empower yourself?
Speaker 3: And so this is why Baphomet as a symbol can
Speaker 3: be so controversial because it can be used and has
Speaker 3: been used to sort of promote this idea of rebellion
Speaker 3: and power over others, but it is also used for
Speaker 3: people to contemplate and to meditate on the idea of
Speaker 3: having control over yourself. So in the in So, you
Speaker 3: mentioned the Eastern philosophy of sort of you know, the
Speaker 3: meditation and going inward and having that sort of coming
Speaker 3: together of the positive and negative finding zen however you
Speaker 3: want to discover it the if you have to excuse me,
Speaker 3: there is a I hear fire trucks and things, so
Speaker 3: maybe you want to edit that out. I was like
Speaker 3: really bad, and I was like, oh my.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Let me.
Speaker 3: So you mentioned Eastern philosophy, and I think that's an
Speaker 3: important thing to consider that that's an act of going
Speaker 3: within yourself and looking for that transformation within. You're using
Speaker 3: will to have the self control, this idea that you
Speaker 3: can control your breathing, you can control your emotions and
Speaker 3: it's all about having power and personal power to control,
Speaker 3: but it's it's looking at how to control you as
Speaker 3: opposed to the environment. But the other way is to say, well,
Speaker 3: I'm going to exert power over this environment and whatnot.
Speaker 3: Baphomet represents those two different paths put into one. And
Speaker 3: so there's the idea of dissolving or something you know,
Speaker 3: being broken up into pieces and then the coagula or
Speaker 3: bringing it back together. So it's like a destruction and
Speaker 3: a reconstruction all put together into one. So the idea
Speaker 3: of the Eastern way of doing things is part of
Speaker 3: it in the argument that the occultists would make, and
Speaker 3: an idea of say a more individualist approach or something
Speaker 3: could be something that would be viewed as a Western perspective.
Speaker 3: So it's all about this unity of opposites coming together
Speaker 3: to be like the left foot right foot marching towards something.
Speaker 3: So that's like both are necessary. That doesn't mean I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that that I necessarily agree with that or
Speaker 3: that that's my personal belief, but it's just to suggest
Speaker 3: that this more open minded approach to the unity of
Speaker 3: opposites or things that look like they're in opposition is
Speaker 3: one of the things that was that Baha Met turned
Speaker 3: into in the eighteen hundreds, We really don't know fully
Speaker 3: what it represented to the Templars, and that's just There
Speaker 3: will be people who say that they do know. A
Speaker 3: lot of those people are looking back and trying to
Speaker 3: decipher what they think, but there is no really great
Speaker 3: first hand any kind of experience, or it all goes
Speaker 3: back to the Templar trial transcripts, and that's the best
Speaker 3: we have. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who
Speaker 3: did a good job with maybe a quality of analysis
Speaker 3: of sorts. But in the end, when we look at
Speaker 3: Bapphamet and we see this one figure that has this
Speaker 3: goat of Mendy's appearance, and it's the unifying of the
Speaker 3: both genders or unifying of the up and the down
Speaker 3: symbol as above so below, and all of these things
Speaker 3: that comes from Levy in the eighteen hundreds, and it
Speaker 3: was during a very important time that he was a
Speaker 3: product of his time period, his environment, so to speak.
Speaker 3: It was a time where people were becoming very politically motivated,
Speaker 3: and it was a time where he himself was trying
Speaker 3: to change and understand the more mystic approaches to religion.
Speaker 3: As you mentioned, he was a Catholic priest, and he
Speaker 3: was very devout, and he believed in mysticism and meditation
Speaker 3: and prayer, and he believed in icons, and he believed
Speaker 3: in imagery and the power of symbols. But he felt
Speaker 3: that the church was getting to be very corrupt and
Speaker 3: it was stymying him. And he also started to get
Speaker 3: wrapped up in political movements like particularly socialism, and that's
Speaker 3: what really moved him, and he thought, wow, you know, Catholicism,
Speaker 3: the word Catholic means unity, and as I see it,
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church is not unified. But what is unified,
Speaker 3: and what could be unified would be the people through socialism.
Speaker 3: So he called socialism. What in in quotations here true Catholicism.
Speaker 3: So to Levy, true Catholicism was socialism. So he felt
Speaker 3: that that in and of itself needed an icon to
Speaker 3: meditate on. And that's where Baphomett comes from. It represents
Speaker 3: a sort of transition from the Catholic Church to the
Speaker 3: Church of socialism. And so it's interesting because we don't
Speaker 3: often think of those types of symbols of as having
Speaker 3: some sort of political orientation or let alone like an
Speaker 3: economic situation. Like it's a like socialism is an economic position.
Speaker 3: So but that's what he was doing. He wanted equal rights,
Speaker 3: he wanted equal rights for women. He wanted all of this,
Speaker 3: and it sounds great, it's like, oh, that's nice, but
Speaker 3: he's he thought that the best way to pursue this
Speaker 3: was through magic. So he wrote a book on magic
Speaker 3: made this image.
Speaker 1: Which is blasphemy in the face of the church. He
Speaker 1: must have used a synonym or a never a different
Speaker 1: name to release the name of this book, or maybe
Speaker 1: he published it after he passed away. He did.
Speaker 2: His name was Alphonse Constant and so he changed it
Speaker 2: to Elphis Levy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he changed the name. He left the church,
Speaker 3: he changed the name. And would you believe that the
Speaker 3: book that he wrote that included bappha met it was
Speaker 3: a ritual magic. It became a certified best seller in
Speaker 3: the year eighteen six. I think it became the best
Speaker 3: seller in eighteen sixty eighteen. Okay, there were two versions
Speaker 3: and they were kind of put together, so there's different
Speaker 3: dates on the different editions, but they around that period.
Speaker 3: It was a best seller, like a mainstream bestseller. Writers, poets,
Speaker 3: bohemian types, at the time were very excited about the
Speaker 3: prospect of leveraging the occult to push political agendas, which
Speaker 3: sounds like very like strange, like we wouldn't necessarily connect
Speaker 3: those two things, but that's what they were doing. And
Speaker 3: they saw this Bapha met Bimbo as a symbol of rebellion,
Speaker 3: as a symbol of rebelling against a giant system and
Speaker 3: doing so in this construct of love and unity. And
Speaker 3: so much so that the Bapha met And this is
Speaker 3: wild because we would look at this creature and go, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a demon. But according to Levy, when you
Speaker 3: look at Bapha Mat, you're looking at the true love
Speaker 3: of God and his creation.
Speaker 1: This is what's so strange. I wanted to stop you
Speaker 1: for a minute. He actually just he the figure on
Speaker 1: your book cover. Is this this goat with this human
Speaker 1: body and other parts? But Levy says, the symbol represents love, unity,
Speaker 1: and spiritual wisdom. How does it turn? How did did
Speaker 1: the church turn it evil? Where did the Catholic Church say?
Speaker 1: This is and this has happened before in the past.
Speaker 1: Because we're looking inward, we're meditating, we're contemplating, that's the
Speaker 1: work of the devil. Is that why the Church turned
Speaker 1: it to the dark side.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that Levy knew that he was taking
Speaker 3: images that were already considered dark by the Church and
Speaker 3: putting them together, and he was doing that maybe the
Speaker 3: troll because he chose the goat of Mendies for the head.
Speaker 3: He chose to put a pentagram on the forehead. Now,
Speaker 3: if you look at the pentagram, it's facing upward, which
Speaker 3: is a different way than say the what would be
Speaker 3: considered demonic. If it's demonic, it's pointing down, it's a reversion.
Speaker 3: If it's pointing up, it's a classical alchemical symbol, meaning
Speaker 3: the wisdom of man, of human beings. So it has
Speaker 3: like the head is at the top with outstretched arms
Speaker 3: and the two legs. It represents man, and so the
Speaker 3: torch on the top represents wisdom, and the feet being
Speaker 3: cloven hoofs it represents the human being in touch with
Speaker 3: the earth. But the wisdom and the horns represent reaching
Speaker 3: this higher wisdom that is usually depicted even in the
Speaker 3: past with Moses, who has horns in some artwork. The
Speaker 3: idea of horns being something that goes all the way
Speaker 3: back to as far as you can look even sumer
Speaker 3: you see the wys, the kings, the gods, they wear bullhorns,
Speaker 3: they wear all sorts of horns. Horns denotes this divine
Speaker 3: ascent and wisdom. So even though it has this look
Speaker 3: to it, the symbology is to say there is a
Speaker 3: unification of opposites. There is the feet of a cloven
Speaker 3: animal that's like very lowly, but all the way at
Speaker 3: the top there's the horns of wisdom in the flame
Speaker 3: of wisdom, and the forehead is representing the third eye
Speaker 3: that is open to the wisdom of humanity. And the
Speaker 3: wings are transcendent because you can fly. It's like angelic.
Speaker 3: It's this sort of thing. It's the as above so below,
Speaker 3: and the cadusis in the middle too, is showing the
Speaker 3: healing power of the unity of opposite. It's intertwined. You
Speaker 3: have the fact that it is androgenists, so it's both
Speaker 3: male and female, and it's showing the power of both
Speaker 3: of those genders combined into one. So it's like the
Speaker 3: alchemical marriage. It's all of these different symbols put together.
Speaker 3: And I think he pretty much knew that it would
Speaker 3: cause people to look and say, oh, this is blasphemous, right,
Speaker 3: And I think also that's part of it is he
Speaker 3: wanted to have the person who looks at this image
Speaker 3: meditate on it and try to when you see the image,
Speaker 3: don't just go with the fear in the disgust, if
Speaker 3: that's how you're inclined to view it initially, but instead
Speaker 3: sit with that and understand it, face the fear, and
Speaker 3: question it and look at it. Because in that way,
Speaker 3: his view and the view of some that followed him,
Speaker 3: was that if there is this true loving God and
Speaker 3: it's all encompassing, it's like pan theism hence pan even
Speaker 3: in the satyr and representation too, but God would be
Speaker 3: in all and you can't look at these ugly things
Speaker 3: and bad things and not see God in that, and
Speaker 3: that God is loving and forgiving. In the end, when
Speaker 3: we all reach our true potential of unity, there will
Speaker 3: be no division between us, and we will all merge
Speaker 3: into one. We will dissolve together and come together as
Speaker 3: one androgynous hybrid creature that transcends all our definitions.
Speaker 2: And I mean, if you say.
Speaker 3: It, it sounds kind of like a little cuckoo, But
Speaker 3: you can also see how some people would look at
Speaker 3: that and say, that's beautiful, and especially when you look
Speaker 3: at over time the political messaging and things that kind
Speaker 3: of came about, and who then started to use it
Speaker 3: as their moniker. So you see bapha Met come about
Speaker 3: in this time. Then it kind of fizzles out because
Speaker 3: people get busy and do other things and they're not
Speaker 3: so worried about the true Catholicism of Levity and Baphamet.
Speaker 3: But the symbol gets a new life in the nineteen
Speaker 3: sixties when people were kind of thinking the same thing.
Speaker 3: They were like, we need to dissolve, we need to
Speaker 3: start over. We want revolution, free love, we don't want barriers,
Speaker 3: We're just we want to be free. And so there's
Speaker 3: this thing called the occult revival and they look back
Speaker 3: and they.
Speaker 2: Get excited about the occult you start.
Speaker 3: You can see this on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club
Speaker 3: band the cover where you can spot in all the
Speaker 3: different celebrities so to speak. There's Aleister Crowley, and so
Speaker 3: the Beatles were in d Alister Crowley.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of this new.
Speaker 3: Idea of looking at these old ideas, and Bapphamet emerged
Speaker 3: as this amazing symbol of all of these things, and
Speaker 3: of course socialism, and then the Church of Satan gets
Speaker 3: a hold of it and says, hey, this is what
Speaker 3: we're going to have for our logo, and it just
Speaker 3: kind of takes a life of its own. And now
Speaker 3: it's used often to troll people in different situations, but
Speaker 3: under the guise of freedom of speech. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that that isn't even accurate or it's just it's
Speaker 3: just to understand the world that we live in, you
Speaker 3: have to understand that people are using these symbols and
Speaker 3: maybe trying to troll people, maybe trying to you know,
Speaker 3: use it for these other purposes. And I think what's
Speaker 3: interesting to consider is that the symbol in and of
Speaker 3: itself is just a symbol.
Speaker 2: It's just an image and.
Speaker 3: What we bring to it and what we put into
Speaker 3: that and how we believe that's what gives it life.
Speaker 3: And so it is sort of a living object, a
Speaker 3: living symbol, but we have if you don't like it,
Speaker 3: you can choose to not give it that energy. Because
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people have been very upset.
Speaker 3: Even with my book, I had some speaking engagements that
Speaker 3: were canceled because of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, evil archaeology no, Bapha Met.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they there it's such a divisive it's such
Speaker 3: a divisive figure, and so yeah.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's like they think you're a devil worshiper.
Speaker 3: Yes, they definitely think that I'm promoting devil worship through
Speaker 3: this book, as opposed to just saying, okay, look, there
Speaker 3: is the symbol that we see in like rock organized
Speaker 3: like like like rock musicians will use it, edgy things
Speaker 3: will use it. Also, the Knights, templar, the You know,
Speaker 3: it's there's this long history of this enigmatic symbol, and
Speaker 3: to know that it's been associated with what we may
Speaker 3: think is the worst of humanity, like demonic things and
Speaker 3: death and destruction, but it's also been associated with some
Speaker 3: of the best, like the ultimate love of God and
Speaker 3: forgiveness and wisdom. It's like, how can these things all
Speaker 3: coexist in one symbol? And well, I guess the symbol
Speaker 3: speaks for itself because it is the unity of opposites.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guests. Today, Doctor Heather Lynn, discussing her new book Baphamet,
Speaker 1: revealed will rejoin you shortly. My guest today is the
Speaker 1: always interesting doctor Heather Lynn. She's an archaeologist and has
Speaker 1: done filled research in her past. She is presenting a
Speaker 1: new book that she just completed and has published called
Speaker 1: Baphomet Revealed, which is an insight into the Templar Knights
Speaker 1: of Europe. Well, I'm thinking about this right now, and
Speaker 1: of course Levy was the one, and you actually show
Speaker 1: this in your book where he actually illustrated his version
Speaker 1: of Baphomet. Is there a place where we evolve the image,
Speaker 1: perhaps to a new look and presentation.
Speaker 3: That's a really great idea. I don't see nothing like
Speaker 3: that's been done, except for, as I mentioned, you see
Speaker 3: some more commercial.
Speaker 2: Aspects of it.
Speaker 3: So maybe people try to make it look cute like
Speaker 3: a San Rio character and they put it on a
Speaker 3: little kids T shirt.
Speaker 1: But I mean I did a search. I did a
Speaker 1: search on the web, and the bafo met is standard.
Speaker 1: It's this goat with a human body, and it doesn't change.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it hasn't evolved at all.
Speaker 3: No, no, it hasn't, and so maybe it's time to
Speaker 3: believe it. Any artists out there looking to reimagine Baphomet
Speaker 3: that might be an interesting thing to do.
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 3: Uh. Yeah, so maybe maybe that's what we need, something
Speaker 3: a little friendly or something happy.
Speaker 1: Because it just stands for such you know, people have
Speaker 1: such a horrible feel for it. Talk for a minute.
Speaker 1: In the research that you did during these UH trials,
Speaker 1: these UH trials of the Templar Knights, did the Baphomet
Speaker 1: topic come up? Of course, these guys are under serious
Speaker 1: stress uh and perhaps torture.
Speaker 3: Ah.
Speaker 1: This is the only way that you were able to
Speaker 1: find that they were using this sacred occult UH science
Speaker 1: I'll call it. Do they talk about anything that's a
Speaker 1: positive or is it all like? Yeah, I agree, I
Speaker 1: I used this. I was, you know, not praying to
Speaker 1: God and uh, you know, holding the cross, I was
Speaker 1: breaking the cross and I was, you know, and pray
Speaker 1: and studying Baphomet.
Speaker 3: That's that's a good question, because yes, it was. There
Speaker 3: were accusations that they were worshiping the idol, that in
Speaker 3: and of itself was bad because it's idle worship. But
Speaker 3: what they were, yes, and so, but what they were
Speaker 3: doing in those worship sessions that also came into question.
Speaker 3: It was the they were accused of having initiation rights,
Speaker 3: so they had.
Speaker 2: A secret order.
Speaker 3: And this is sometimes where the connection between secret societies
Speaker 3: and templars kind of merge, because it has this idea
Speaker 3: behind it that they had initiations and different degrees of initiation,
Speaker 3: that they had to go for a particular right or
Speaker 3: do a humiliation ritual or who knows what I mean.
Speaker 3: The accusations have been all over the place, but in
Speaker 3: the actual transcripts it does accuse them of having sexual impropriety.
Speaker 2: One of the things was that they were made to
Speaker 2: kiss the.
Speaker 3: The anus we'll say, of the animal, the goat, kissed
Speaker 3: the anus of perhaps the cat, if they were being
Speaker 3: accused of the cat.
Speaker 2: But also, you know, some people were like, sure, that's
Speaker 2: what we did.
Speaker 3: No, we didn't do that, that's not And so the
Speaker 3: other accusation that was a little more plausible if if
Speaker 3: that was that they were accused of having to kiss
Speaker 3: the anus of the person above them in the degree,
Speaker 3: so like showing deference, like showing humiliation.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, where we get this idea of like,
Speaker 2: you know, you can kiss my ass like that.
Speaker 3: That's where this idea comes from, is that is an
Speaker 3: old sort of ritual kind of thing. Whether or not
Speaker 3: they did that is, you know, who's to say they
Speaker 3: did say yes. Some of them said yes, we did that,
Speaker 3: some of them said no, we did not do this.
Speaker 3: Some of them said again, no, it was to this cat,
Speaker 3: or it was this whatever. But that's what makes it
Speaker 3: so difficult to know the actual tr truth. We can
Speaker 3: kind of surmise, I think, some general idea that what
Speaker 3: they were being accused of was sexual impropriety, blasphemy and
Speaker 3: heresy as well as yes, you mentioned the spitting on
Speaker 3: a cross, or taking the Lord's name in vain or
Speaker 3: denying Christianity.
Speaker 2: This was something that.
Speaker 3: Carried a little bit more weight, and it is quite
Speaker 3: possible that the Templars did do that and could have
Speaker 3: done that. But it gets a little more complicated when
Speaker 3: it comes to the cultural connections with that idea. So
Speaker 3: if they so, for instance, if they were practicing Islam
Speaker 3: in a mystic sense, there was this notion that in
Speaker 3: that belief set that if you did something sinful, you
Speaker 3: could be forgiven for it if the sin was in
Speaker 3: the name of God, if you were doing it, whether
Speaker 3: it was to honor God or under some sort of duress,
Speaker 3: like you had to do this to survive or keep
Speaker 3: your family alive, and so there was like a loophole
Speaker 3: that said you can sin and do whatever. That was
Speaker 3: a newer idea to those templars. That was just not
Speaker 3: an option in the sort of Christian ethos. So for them,
Speaker 3: if they had been enculturated in such a way that
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, to show their adherence to a transcendent
Speaker 3: God as opposed to the Church as a structure or
Speaker 3: a dogmatic religious system, they could have in theory, done
Speaker 3: those blasphemous things like spit on a cross or whatever
Speaker 3: to show that they were desecrating the symbols of the
Speaker 3: structure and the authority as opposed to the actual God.
Speaker 3: And so there is this little argument that has been
Speaker 3: said in the scholarship that suggests, yeah, and one.
Speaker 1: Thing I wanted to ask you real quickly. Were these
Speaker 1: monks ordained in the sense of the Catholic Church, which
Speaker 1: would make these practices even more damaging to their to
Speaker 1: their faith.
Speaker 3: They they weren't in the in the traditional sense in
Speaker 3: the beginning, uh, because of their call to the crusade.
Speaker 3: It was anybody who felt that they were inspired to
Speaker 3: go out there, pick up a sword and fight.
Speaker 1: Could they were maybe anointed on the on the on
Speaker 1: the battlefield with a quick you know, cross on the
Speaker 1: head or.
Speaker 2: Something pretty much.
Speaker 3: But they were ordained as the order itself, so but
Speaker 3: they were kind of because of their actual geographic distance
Speaker 3: and their own power that they had, they didn't really
Speaker 3: have to do a lot to legitimize their power. They
Speaker 3: were technically as an organization ordained, but if you were
Speaker 3: a member, you would be more concerned with going through
Speaker 3: these rights of initiation. So you were answering to the
Speaker 3: templars themselves.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you. I can't remember the name
Speaker 1: of the lead templar, but a number of these people
Speaker 1: were burned, it burned at the steak because they did
Speaker 1: such blasphemous things to the to the thought of the church,
Speaker 1: to the you know, I mean heresy and idol worship,
Speaker 1: things that are considered evil, and I think there I
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of the of the the head
Speaker 1: of the templars at the time.
Speaker 2: But Jacques de Malay Malay, Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 1: Was three or four of them were burned at the
Speaker 1: cross at the stake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they were, and uh they really.
Speaker 3: You could you could make the argument that it was
Speaker 3: done so to punish them for the heresy and all
Speaker 3: of that. But you know the fact that they had
Speaker 3: all the power that they did and the money that
Speaker 3: they did. It's unclear as to whether or not it
Speaker 3: was just that or maybe just a combination of those things,
Speaker 3: or maybe they went hand in hand and think that,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe they got all of this money so
Speaker 3: that they maybe they got all this money because they
Speaker 3: were doing these so called demonic or evil things.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's the origin of our fear or superstition
Speaker 3: surrounding Friday the thirteenth, because that was the day, October thirteenth,
Speaker 3: thirteen oh seven that they were condemned and put to death.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3: So now it's always a it's a perpetual bad luck
Speaker 3: day because that's when they.
Speaker 1: Were Do we know how much King Philip the fourth
Speaker 1: of France owed them?
Speaker 2: That would sue right off the top of my head.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it is. I think it is,
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: There are estimates, so I think it's a knowable thing,
Speaker 3: but I don't have those numbers.
Speaker 2: Off the top of mind.
Speaker 1: It must have been a lot of money, like it
Speaker 1: was a lot.
Speaker 3: Of money, and maybe even so much that we wouldn't
Speaker 3: know the full number because of the pride involved in
Speaker 3: having to admit that that much was owed. So we
Speaker 3: may never know the actual number because you know, having
Speaker 3: to give up that much power. Well, you see how
Speaker 3: it didn't work out well for the templars.
Speaker 1: Would you say that the bapha met was a regular
Speaker 1: ritualistic practice there was some combination of perhaps meditation followed
Speaker 1: by a short fast followed by some oral tradition that
Speaker 1: made up a practice.
Speaker 3: Quite possibly, Yes, if you think of how they were
Speaker 3: monks and they had a view of an aesthetic life,
Speaker 3: they had an understanding of that sort of lifestyle and commitment.
Speaker 3: So I would imagine intertwined the practice with fasting with
Speaker 3: chance meditation of course, as you mentioned, and so but
Speaker 3: again I would just caution anyone to when they're imagining
Speaker 3: this to separate the elphis Levey version of baham At
Speaker 3: from what it is that they were actually worshiping, because
Speaker 3: we don't really know, and they did.
Speaker 2: It could could have been a floating head for all
Speaker 2: we know.
Speaker 3: It's really it's kind of one of those things where
Speaker 3: I'm almost more curious. And after I wrote this, I
Speaker 3: was a little more curious about finding out and going
Speaker 3: much further back and seeing if there's any way in
Speaker 3: any kind of understanding of what it was that the
Speaker 3: templars themselves could have been worshiping. Why the floating head?
Speaker 3: What is is this just something made up under duress
Speaker 3: or you know, what is it exactly? So there's a
Speaker 3: big leap between what it was they were accused of
Speaker 3: worshiping versus Baha Met as we understand it today, and
Speaker 3: I in the book, I do have a picture of
Speaker 3: an illuminated manuscript where there was the drawing of what
Speaker 3: it was they were worshiping. And yes, it's a strange head,
Speaker 3: but it does have an association with John the Baptist
Speaker 3: and the hit and him losing his head. And so
Speaker 3: some people have suggested to based on Baphomet and the
Speaker 3: Baptist connection, that this idea that they were worshiping ahead
Speaker 3: might carry more weight because they were perhaps following this
Speaker 3: gnostic sect that believed that John the Baptist was a
Speaker 3: primary figure to be worshiped, and so they might have
Speaker 3: been worshiping or doing something like that. But either way,
Speaker 3: what we do know is they were doing something that
Speaker 3: was not considered the dogma of the Catholic Church at
Speaker 3: the time, and so.
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's funny that you talk about that there's
Speaker 1: so much mystery behind the templars, and you know Oak Island,
Speaker 1: and there's the burial of treasures around the world, and
Speaker 1: it's like it's spun into infinity. And yet what you
Speaker 1: have shown us here in this great book is that
Speaker 1: there's a lot more to them, a lot more to
Speaker 1: consider when it comes to these occult practices. And yet
Speaker 1: we really don't know exactly what those practices are, do we?
Speaker 2: No, we really don't. There there are some occult writings.
Speaker 3: I would say it's not a complete loss, because I
Speaker 3: do believe that some people have some documents that may
Speaker 3: give us more clues. But a lot of those documents
Speaker 3: have been carefully guarded. They're in private libraries, they belong
Speaker 3: to secret societies, and so access to getting in there
Speaker 3: is sometimes available, but often limited as well, and it
Speaker 3: depends on who's looking and all of that, sort of
Speaker 3: like the Vatican Archives.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I would bet anything.
Speaker 3: I want to know that if you want to know
Speaker 3: what they were actually worshipping, I would just bet anything
Speaker 3: that the Vatican Archives would have a complete, complete list.
Speaker 1: On Okay, well this is I'm going to pin you
Speaker 1: down a little bit, Heather. I want your interpretation, based
Speaker 1: on this book, what you think they would practice? What
Speaker 1: were they because when I the way you describe it,
Speaker 1: I think it's a form of enlightenment that perhaps they
Speaker 1: were seeking to transcend their level of consciousness, maybe moving
Speaker 1: into another layer or a level where they could gain
Speaker 1: this esosteric knowledge, you know. And it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be magic. Of course, magic is a nice word to use,
Speaker 1: but it's more of a conscious evolution.
Speaker 3: But what do you say if I had to be
Speaker 3: pinned down and said, okay, what is it that you believe?
Speaker 3: I actually believe what they were doing was cultivating some
Speaker 3: level of consciousness that was based in mysticism, and not
Speaker 3: just any mysticism, but the perennial mysticism that has been
Speaker 3: passed on since before written history, sort of like an
Speaker 3: ancient shamanism, you know, using all those words again back
Speaker 3: to like the mask or the you know, using these
Speaker 3: terms to describe the phenomena. If I say shamanism, it
Speaker 3: may conjure up ideas of somebody in a cave doing X,
Speaker 3: Y and Z, and that's valid. However, what is it
Speaker 3: that they're doing something that is shared beyond all of
Speaker 3: these different belief sets and cultures. It is this desire
Speaker 3: to go inward and to commune with something greater and
Speaker 3: to ascend and transcend your current existence to become one.
Speaker 3: And people can do this through different means. They do
Speaker 3: it through what's called orgiastic behavior, so like drum circles,
Speaker 3: dancing together, partying, feasting. However, they do it through meditation,
Speaker 3: they can do it through taking substances to alter their consciousness.
Speaker 3: There's many different ways. There's holotropic breathing, and there's you
Speaker 3: name it. We've had fasting another great one. But you
Speaker 3: have all of these different techniques that everyone seems to
Speaker 3: have tapped into. And I think that over time people
Speaker 3: have understood that there is a great power to this.
Speaker 3: There is a for lack of a better word, magic
Speaker 3: to it. This is something that Levy talks about himself
Speaker 3: when he talks about the astral light, and this is
Speaker 3: Levee gets a lot of attention for his drawing of Baphomet,
Speaker 3: but what he's really really known for is this idea
Speaker 3: of the astral light, the light within us, and cultivating
Speaker 3: that and understanding it. So this notion that we're light
Speaker 3: beings that were made of light, that we see the light,
Speaker 3: that we're trying to reach this light. It is another
Speaker 3: constant that you see through all of these different belief sets.
Speaker 3: So I think the Templars caught onto this, and they
Speaker 3: did so because there is an element of this in Christianity.
Speaker 3: There's Christian mysticism. It is not a religion void of
Speaker 3: this at all. Jesus was a great teacher. All of
Speaker 3: this stuff was relevant to them. So there is there
Speaker 3: that is a path to transcend, transcending and opening up
Speaker 3: the light and all of this. But I think when
Speaker 3: they encountered other belief sets, they saw the similarities and
Speaker 3: they saw perhaps that when you pull back all of
Speaker 3: the exoteric and you go and you see the beneath layer,
Speaker 3: that it's similar and that there is a magic, there's
Speaker 3: a power there, and it's what is sometimes called the
Speaker 3: perennial philosophy, or it's sometimes you know, the one thing
Speaker 3: that can bring us together again, even with the Baphomet,
Speaker 3: you see this notion of coming together unity. And so
Speaker 3: I happen to think that what they did was they
Speaker 3: stumbled upon this idea that is the underpinning of all religions.
Speaker 3: That's the spiritual component of it. And it can be
Speaker 3: expressed through ideas like gnosticism, or through Kabbalah, or through
Speaker 3: Sufi Islam, or any of this. And that's not to
Speaker 3: say that one religion's better or worse so that they're
Speaker 3: all the same. They're all different and unique. However, I
Speaker 3: think they stumbled upon what it is that brings us
Speaker 3: together as opposed to what tears us apart. And it's
Speaker 3: not something that's relegated to the past. It's something that
Speaker 3: people are currently understanding and looking at through consciousness studies
Speaker 3: and through all of these efforts to transcend the dogma
Speaker 3: and get in touch with that greater ineffable being, whatever
Speaker 3: it may be.
Speaker 2: We can do that by going.
Speaker 3: Within, like you said, through meditation, sometimes using altered substances.
Speaker 3: Some of us can do that by going to a
Speaker 3: church or having a meeting with people like a Quaker meeting,
Speaker 3: I mean, every kind of denomination, everything like that. It's
Speaker 3: not to dilute those practices, but I just think it
Speaker 3: is that they came across this like esoteric and hidden wisdom,
Speaker 3: and it's very powerful, and so it stays secret, and
Speaker 3: then it's sort of like in the UFO disclosure world,
Speaker 3: where it's UFO UFO and then later it's UAP and
Speaker 3: it's like, but what are we talking about? And we
Speaker 3: can change the names all day, but we all know
Speaker 3: we're talking about something, and we kind of know what
Speaker 3: we're talking about.
Speaker 2: So whether we call them.
Speaker 3: Angels, demons, jin aliens, what have you. I think that
Speaker 3: I think the Templars stumbled upon a deeper hidden truth.
Speaker 1: God. I wish somebody would find a treasure trove of
Speaker 1: some of their literature somewhere, so we.
Speaker 2: You know, the hidden I'm working on it. I'm working
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: Well, you got to take a trip to Jerusalem to
Speaker 1: do it, you know. Other than that, maybe find somebody's
Speaker 1: uh antique stash and.
Speaker 2: They here's places, there's places some people.
Speaker 3: I've been contacted before by people who claim they have
Speaker 3: these great, you know, things that had been passed down
Speaker 3: in their family.
Speaker 2: And so there's there are.
Speaker 3: People who feel that they were the inheritors of the
Speaker 3: Templar treasure and wisdom and all of this. And so
Speaker 3: I think that the evidence may be scattered out through
Speaker 3: many different places, including the United States. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of Templar mystery here in the United States as well.
Speaker 1: Amazing the books called Alpha met revealed. My guest today's
Speaker 1: been doctor Heather Lynd. This book just came out a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Right, Yeah, so it's on Amazon
Speaker 1: or any place you get your books.
Speaker 2: Give us your website, doctor Heatherlind dot com. It's dr
Speaker 2: heatherlin dot com.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really easy, and her her website's great, it's
Speaker 1: up to date, and the Heather's got her hands and
Speaker 1: all kinds of great stuff. So hey, much success on this.
Speaker 1: This has been fun and uh, you still leave the
Speaker 1: door open, uh for the mystery of the templars in
Speaker 1: this work. It's even more fascinating. I can see why
Speaker 1: so many people are like, I got to learn more about.
Speaker 2: The templers just cross the surface.
Speaker 1: You did, you did? So hey, real fun and uh
Speaker 1: much success.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: One thing I found was interesting about this Baphamet symbol,
Speaker 1: and you know it is recognized as the symbol of
Speaker 1: the devil or hell or anti Christ. Perhaps if you're
Speaker 1: a religious person, is the symbology that the templars were
Speaker 1: looking at. And also perhaps there is power and we
Speaker 1: didn't get into this with Lynn. As a reiki person,
Speaker 1: we use certain symbols to increase energy, increase power, increase
Speaker 1: healing flow through a body when we're giving a treatment
Speaker 1: or doing a distant treatment, which which is where you
Speaker 1: don't have to have the person in front of you,
Speaker 1: but you can send energy over distances. And if bapha
Speaker 1: met is as ancient as is Linn has found Heather
Speaker 1: has discovered, then perhaps using the symbol brings something out.
Speaker 1: Maybe it can open doorways, maybe it is a And
Speaker 1: we don't talk enough about the occult when we speak
Speaker 1: of the Templar Knights. So I'm just wondering if there's
Speaker 1: other aspects of this that we just are now beginning
Speaker 1: to understand. The templars are fascinating, and you know, people
Speaker 1: like Scott Walter and others that we've had on the
Speaker 1: show really get into the templars big time, and it's
Speaker 1: all typically about treasure Oak Island, the Bury treasure of
Speaker 1: the Templars, the templars landing in the United States, perhaps
Speaker 1: Bury treasure there. I mean, there is buildings, and there's structures,
Speaker 1: and there's stonemasonry that isn't attributed to the templar. So
Speaker 1: there's much much more than just the physical when it
Speaker 1: comes to these guys. And we're always caught up in
Speaker 1: our Internet and our Wi Fi is beating our brains
Speaker 1: and covering us with this energy. But when we don't
Speaker 1: have that, your brain can actually fixate on other things,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think using symbology in the same
Speaker 1: manner that we use it in RANKI can create things,
Speaker 1: can manifest things. And so when we talk about magic,
Speaker 1: and we haven't talked enough about magic in the temples,
Speaker 1: but there could have been spells and other data that
Speaker 1: is al chemical, not just converting silver to gold or
Speaker 1: copper to gold, but perhaps other techniques for manipulating matter.
Speaker 1: And I have to wonder if this is also manipulating humans,
Speaker 1: you know, not so much like voodoo where you put
Speaker 1: pins in them and you control them, that matter, but
Speaker 1: maybe well the classic is love potions, but maybe using
Speaker 1: symbology you could other you could also control other aspects
Speaker 1: of physiology. So something to think about, something to consider. Hey,
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Speaker 1: Patreon dot com Forward Slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's
Speaker 1: it for this program, And when I think my guest today,
Speaker 1: doctor Heather Lynn, and the release of her new book
Speaker 1: Baphomet Revealed, and as always our team of Gail tour,
Speaker 1: Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You
Speaker 1: guys rock, all right, take care of be well, and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you next time.
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