Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What? What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Howdi folks? Your host double j back here, host of
Speaker 1: Operation GCD not the Vice President for another Fridays with
Speaker 1: my co host Nick from the Occult Rejects. Nick Kay doing, sir?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 4: I wait?
Speaker 1: Doing well? Doing well? Excited for another Fridays with our
Speaker 1: guests here, Hearty Love, host of the Unfiltered podcast. How
Speaker 1: you doing, Heidie, I'm good.
Speaker 4: Other than this voice, you know how it is that Yeah, joined.
Speaker 1: Us here for a Fridays. I'm definitely excited, as you know,
Speaker 1: as a former Mormon myself for the first twenty years
Speaker 1: of my life, I'm excited to talk Mormon stuff. And
Speaker 1: as I point out to you, like I got a
Speaker 1: lot of Mormon stuff going on in my family tree too,
Speaker 1: So that's some some something I want to talk about
Speaker 1: regarding the origin story or the the uh the church's
Speaker 1: official story of the origin story of the Mormon Church,
Speaker 1: which I have a good I've uh kind of collected
Speaker 1: a large volume of, you know, circumstantial evidence that claims
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. So definitely excited to talk to you about that.
Speaker 1: But uh, at the Unfiltered Rise is that that's kind
Speaker 1: of your main that's your wheelhouse, right, parabolittics and Mormon biz, right, yep.
Speaker 2: I love anything that gets down the rabbit hole and
Speaker 2: gets me lost. Unfiltered Rise everywhere podcasts are served. I
Speaker 2: definitely am all about the JFK right now, not just
Speaker 2: I could care less really who pulled the trigger? I
Speaker 2: just want the background, right, right, and so yeah, all
Speaker 2: that stuff, and of course Mormons, because they're always involved,
Speaker 2: They're everywhere, They're everywhere.
Speaker 1: Nick, I'm obviously partial, but I I thoroughly enjoyed the
Speaker 1: series we've recently done here with with Heidie on the
Speaker 1: Occult Rejects. Regarding all this more politics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is some deep stuff.
Speaker 5: I mean really taking her series in Justin's series, I
Speaker 5: I should tell you right there, something severely wrong. It's
Speaker 5: the situation, right, it's not through yah.
Speaker 2: Oh boys, a religion relative well, go ahead, and Nichols said,
Speaker 2: it's not a religion.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's so well, I mean it's something orright,
Speaker 1: it's an ancient alien cargo cult.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So the one thing that I find fascinating with all
Speaker 1: these topics from the nineteen sixties and seventies surrounding Howard
Speaker 1: Hughes permadex JFK ll RFK stuff. All this stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: seems relevant still today given the characters involved.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh for sure, Roy cones all over that. And
Speaker 2: then we get that who does that go to? Not
Speaker 2: the vice president but the president?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, kidding, weird.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about that picture you share, what
Speaker 1: you shared on that last show. We were talking Cone
Speaker 1: when he's got done. I think it's Roy's fifty second
Speaker 1: birthday at Studio fifty four.
Speaker 4: Yes, people said that's fake. It's true. You guys can
Speaker 4: look that up. It's real.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: He dressed up for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, that's I'm familiar with that. That whole party,
Speaker 1: that's the Studio fifty four party for his birthday. I
Speaker 1: mean it's a in studying Roy Cone because David Burka
Speaker 1: once claims he was a member of the process, so
Speaker 1: you know, in an assignment memorandum in the nineties, you know,
Speaker 1: so you know that obviously I was interested in coming beforehand.
Speaker 1: That that you know, takes up a few notches from
Speaker 1: perm index to the Son of Sam, you know, apparatus
Speaker 1: in the seventies to the Lord knows what else in
Speaker 1: that in that scene that he was involved in. You know, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pooh harch comes up, and who's pooh Harrich like
Speaker 2: attached with this whole thing with the other guy that
Speaker 2: kept Bryant and then Bryant's attached with the Boston strangler.
Speaker 4: I just say, it's everybody, right, all of them.
Speaker 1: Who do you think who do you think replaced Roy
Speaker 1: Cone in the network? Right? He died back in ninety six,
Speaker 1: right of aids. He obviously someone replaced him in the
Speaker 1: you know that that that scene or that Colt scene
Speaker 1: or the gay underground Mafius scene, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, or this wetwork guy. See, I mean he
Speaker 1: was connected to everything. He was the legal counsel for
Speaker 1: the McCarthy hearings.
Speaker 2: That's right, dirty deeds done, dirt cheap, He's all over that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's everywhere, man.
Speaker 2: And you know it could be somebody that is religious, right,
Speaker 2: because he did have a huge religious background, despite not
Speaker 2: being religious himself. Right, they owned a bank, They had
Speaker 2: a Jewish background.
Speaker 1: So yeah, what about Roger Stone? You think that's introduced
Speaker 1: Donald and Roy Cone? Right, was Roger Stone?
Speaker 4: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: That's that's why they met.
Speaker 4: What do you think, Nick, you.
Speaker 2: Think replaced the old the old cone where he knows
Speaker 2: where all the bodies are.
Speaker 3: I don't know even guess who could be doing that.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of the spiag the Mob, and not not
Speaker 1: too far separated from all this cult business, there's a
Speaker 1: fella in Hollywood called Norby Waltters. He did something for
Speaker 1: like fifty years called the Best Dress whatever the Emmys
Speaker 1: or name whatever, god forsaken a word show they do there.
Speaker 1: But this it was big and popularizing fashion and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. You know, he was he was the go
Speaker 1: to guy. Well, when he passed, he passed the torch
Speaker 1: on to Roger Stone, which I find interesting because Norby
Speaker 1: Walters was deeply connected to the Mob. In fact, he
Speaker 1: did my long old Michael franchisee the guy who's the
Speaker 1: underboss to the the c Columbo crime family, and I
Speaker 1: say the under or Sunny Francheese would do such weird
Speaker 1: things as financing the film Deep Throat in nineteen seventies
Speaker 1: through the first Philography, which which premiered that he processed
Speaker 1: Church Theater in West Hollywood, so a lot. It's not
Speaker 1: that far off from all these weird activities, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, just new players all the time. Yeah, they just
Speaker 2: get new bodies in there, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Roger Stone seems uniquely like sitting in a weird
Speaker 1: position politically, kind of you know, underworldly, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, the underground.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a whole nother world that we don't
Speaker 2: always get to see, but it's definitely there. It doesn't
Speaker 2: go away. I find it interesting. I wonder where Jared
Speaker 2: Birchall plays into all this.
Speaker 4: You know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: He must financier financial advisor that doesn't deserve to have
Speaker 2: that position by schooling. He is Mormon, and he is
Speaker 2: Elon Musk's financial advisor. I do wonder, yes, sir, yes, sir, Wow,
Speaker 2: that they met at the boring company digging holes together,
Speaker 2: kind of like our friend Joseph.
Speaker 1: Yeah, scout right.
Speaker 4: Oh he's a good boy.
Speaker 2: I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. He served an overseas mission probably.
Speaker 1: Like a good Mormon. Got to get that eagle scout
Speaker 1: right there.
Speaker 2: It is there, it is, Yep, you gotta do itsman's
Speaker 2: an eagle scout.
Speaker 1: So what's his relations to Frank William Gay the guy
Speaker 1: we've been talking about with Hughes.
Speaker 2: Gay is not not a part of him. But I
Speaker 2: do know the Gay Dynasty lives on. The Gay Dynasty
Speaker 2: lives on.
Speaker 1: I asked that because, yeah, I didn't really know a
Speaker 1: lot about the guy. I learned a lot from you
Speaker 1: in that series. Hey, but I'm scrolling through here at
Speaker 1: the bottom of this Jared Birchall Wikipedia entryue you know
Speaker 1: the source of all information on the interwebs, He says here.
Speaker 1: See also Frank William Gay, an LDS member who was
Speaker 1: a corporate Are they just making a relative comparison? You
Speaker 1: think he's he's he is the Elon musk Is Gay
Speaker 1: was the Hughes.
Speaker 2: I don't know that out. Yeah, I do know that
Speaker 2: he did get the position very much like he did
Speaker 2: because he was just I couldn't know.
Speaker 3: You typed it too much.
Speaker 4: I am the worst. It's good.
Speaker 2: It's mostly the boys to me. Yeah. Uh, I sometimes
Speaker 2: get myself in trouble, but that's okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that he was just an errand boy, you know,
Speaker 2: for Hughes, and then ended up basically running his whole fortune.
Speaker 2: So dun't at all you know.
Speaker 1: What's sounding a good eagle scout like this Jared Birshall guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know much about him, So what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Where he came out of nowhere? Huh? He did?
Speaker 4: He They worked at the boring company together, he doesn't.
Speaker 2: All I know is he's unqualified to run the position
Speaker 2: that he's in, and that he's an LDS guy, very LDS.
Speaker 4: You should look at his picture.
Speaker 2: He looks like he just stepped off the freaking Mormon magazines.
Speaker 2: R us. It's great. Yes, Yet he's white and delightsome, definitely.
Speaker 1: And also like a good Mormon. He likes to do,
Speaker 1: he likes to dig for treasures.
Speaker 2: It sounds white and delights them. Look at that smile,
Speaker 2: just worthy. Look at that guy.
Speaker 4: You never know.
Speaker 2: They're the nicest people, don't you know?
Speaker 1: They look like an interesting combo. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: see these two fitting in well together. So it does
Speaker 1: seem like Ivan Gay's relationship to Hughes. I can definitely
Speaker 1: see that with this guy, right, because gay relationship is
Speaker 1: that what the gay like the William Gay two men?
Speaker 2: Right? Smart, Okay, I'll stop it.
Speaker 1: It just seems like he's long been a front man, right.
Speaker 4: Oh, definitely definitely.
Speaker 2: I mean he's everybody's like, he's the smartest person ever.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, he didn't discover any of that stuff, so.
Speaker 1: No, he's never he's never.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Well, he he did help invent the credit card systems
Speaker 1: to pay for pornography in the nineties with his brother.
Speaker 1: That was the original X company.
Speaker 2: Well that's the only thing, because he didn't invent any
Speaker 2: of the restless stuff. He says he did so it.
Speaker 1: Would later become PayPal once Peter tel and the CIA
Speaker 1: can in with some.
Speaker 2: Money, right exactly. The CIA is always there to back.
Speaker 2: They are little buddies of the LDS because I think
Speaker 2: this is what it is. The LDS has three letters
Speaker 2: and C I, a FBI.
Speaker 4: It fits in.
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, there.
Speaker 1: Isn't it.
Speaker 2: I mean, right, look what money can buy not nearly enough.
Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, poor Elon. And these are the people
Speaker 2: that want to clone themselves, y'all. They want to run
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody needs that hairline, Oh my gosh, not even Elon.
Speaker 1: Clearly he did. He didn't like it either.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's frightening on both ends, honestly, like the
Speaker 2: other guy's teeth.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But despite despite.
Speaker 4: The looks, we all have our weird little whatever about us.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, I don't know that I would
Speaker 2: clone myself a whole bunch if if there were issues, right,
Speaker 2: and you weren't smart as everybody thought you were, but
Speaker 2: who knows. Stranger things have happen. And I did find
Speaker 2: a strange rabbit hole that I might want to go
Speaker 2: down before we do the MLK one because I found
Speaker 2: a weird thing about Howard.
Speaker 4: He's in time.
Speaker 2: Travel, y'all hear about that?
Speaker 4: No, well, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna be deep diving that before I go
Speaker 2: too far into it. But I'm sure the Mormons pop up,
Speaker 2: because you know how the Mormons love space, and there
Speaker 2: was some weird stories that I've heard, so yeah, we'll
Speaker 2: be we'll be doing that one too. And Martin Luther
Speaker 2: King of course, like but they're they're involved in all
Speaker 2: of it all the time. And people are always like,
Speaker 2: it's the Catholics, it's the Jews, it's the this, it's
Speaker 2: the that, and I'm like, it's all of them.
Speaker 4: It's all of them, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: You know, only do find interesting. I do not saying
Speaker 5: that we have to get into this this idea, this
Speaker 5: theory of mine. But I do think it is something
Speaker 5: that JJ has even noticed. If you want to start
Speaker 5: taking certain conspiracies out there that are kind of like
Speaker 5: hugely believed and so throwing them into people's ideas of
Speaker 5: what they think their their version of Christianity is, you
Speaker 5: actually have a lot of people conspiracy theorists podcasts. In
Speaker 5: my opinion, they are actually a lot more aligned with Mormonism.
Speaker 3: Than they think.
Speaker 4: Oh well, I mean, you know it.
Speaker 5: Oh sound controversial to saying right now, but I do
Speaker 5: think if you including certain certain conspiracy theory ideas, you're
Speaker 5: actually going towards scientology and Mormonism.
Speaker 1: Yep, well they're very nat Scotty's right in that in
Speaker 1: that respect. You know, el Ron Hubbard and his prison planet,
Speaker 1: you know, like Alex Jones, like the copy with prison
Speaker 1: planet dot com.
Speaker 2: We have a prison planet. It's outer darkness. It's the
Speaker 2: same difference, right, I'm going there.
Speaker 4: Apparently that's what they tell me.
Speaker 1: There's really no hell. There's really no hell in Mormonism.
Speaker 1: Is there just lower levels of heaven?
Speaker 2: I mean outer darkness is the absence of anything, including
Speaker 2: your connection with gods. So I guess that would be
Speaker 2: your own personal hell. But that's very eight here, that's
Speaker 2: very Steiner.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought I thought it was just like, uh,
Speaker 1: you had like like heaven, and you had like a
Speaker 1: little bit a shittier version of heaven and then a
Speaker 1: slightly shittier version of heaven than that.
Speaker 2: No, that that is true, and then they're for apostates
Speaker 2: and murderers. So I go with the murderers because that's
Speaker 2: how bad I am.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I.
Speaker 1: See what you're saying. Yeah, this is like the tone
Speaker 1: scale of scientology where all journalists, you know, investigators and
Speaker 1: homosexuals are all like the bottom of the level tone
Speaker 1: scale zero or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's what it is.
Speaker 1: It's basically their hell is is there. That's the scientologist
Speaker 1: version of hell. When they don't have a heaven and hell,
Speaker 1: they put you in like a living hell situation because
Speaker 1: they'll those are the people they hate the world in
Speaker 1: the world. The most psychiatrists would follow in that category.
Speaker 2: I definitely know Mormons say like, if you're an alcoholic,
Speaker 2: then you'll be in the lower level and you will
Speaker 2: want to drink and you'll have a drink and you
Speaker 2: won't be able to drink, like you'll just be like, ah, you.
Speaker 1: Know, thanks must. I must have tapped out in Sunday
Speaker 1: school on this this lesson playing, because I don't recall
Speaker 1: this at all. Heidi, Yeah, this sounds fun.
Speaker 2: Did you remember the Do you remember the video where
Speaker 2: they were building the Salt Lake Temple and the rocks
Speaker 2: were flying without any like anybody doing anything. They were
Speaker 2: magically appearing to the temple and it made the boying sound.
Speaker 4: That's very cool, very naustic. I've got to find that one.
Speaker 2: If anybody knows that cartoon, please send it to me
Speaker 2: or tell me the name, because it was weird. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was weird.
Speaker 1: Well, when you talk about all this Mormon parapolitics and
Speaker 1: all their weird magical stuff, I'm definitely into the weird
Speaker 1: magical stuff. And I think there's a lot more of
Speaker 1: that at the origins than we even understand today, because
Speaker 1: I think their origin story is dubious as can be.
Speaker 1: And when you're talking all this parapolitics stuff today, I
Speaker 1: would say, what the more important factor is the Society
Speaker 1: of the Cincinnati. That's the secret society that started America.
Speaker 1: Why George Washington and his officers and the descendants of
Speaker 1: which are all members today. And I would say they've
Speaker 1: been feuding internally since around oh Serraca eighteen oh three
Speaker 1: when Aaron Burr murdered the President General of the Society,
Speaker 1: Alexander Hamilton, and try to take over America. But that's
Speaker 1: only one example. But you know, other examples are when
Speaker 1: hereditary members I become running for president or become president.
Speaker 1: There's an element of the society that does not like that.
Speaker 1: I think oftentimes it's considered just on freemasonry because folks
Speaker 1: don't understand the societies. For example, Joseph Smith, the founder
Speaker 1: of the Mormon Church, his grandfather was a captain in
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War, right, Hetty.
Speaker 2: Yes he was captain Samuel Smith. Yes, he was a
Speaker 2: part of the Boston Tea Party.
Speaker 1: So if it wasn't Joseph, it was one of his
Speaker 1: brothers that would have been a member, the hereditary member. Right,
Speaker 1: So what it seems to be, I assume it was Joseph.
Speaker 1: When it seems to be when he is running for president,
Speaker 1: that's just too much. There's an element of the society
Speaker 1: that doesn't like this. Others other examples would be William
Speaker 1: Henry Harrison, Abraham Lincoln. They're like, no, this guy's gotta go.
Speaker 1: Whatever this hereditary member becoming the president is because as
Speaker 1: a president, you remember, but for some reason they don't
Speaker 1: seem like hereditary members becoming president for some reason.
Speaker 2: Maybe they don't like the divine, divine right to rule,
Speaker 2: maybe they don't like that.
Speaker 1: Well, there's probably there's probably a bit of the we
Speaker 1: don't want the whole America to be Mormon, because that
Speaker 1: was obviously Justph Smith's planned there too when he was
Speaker 1: running for president, right.
Speaker 2: Exactly, you got murdered. How quick was that after he
Speaker 2: started running to j J.
Speaker 4: Was pretty damn quick.
Speaker 1: They weren't wasting any time with it, right, They were like,
Speaker 1: this guy's gotta go. So, as you know, the Mormon
Speaker 1: church story has been brought in a question before, right
Speaker 1: the origins.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there was.
Speaker 1: A book written what in the sixties about the whole
Speaker 1: salamander business or I'm sorry it was about it was
Speaker 1: questioning the magic aspects to it. I think it was
Speaker 1: the stone see your stone, right.
Speaker 5: It was, Yeah, there's something with salamanders. You're right on that.
Speaker 1: That wasn't until the eighties. I don't think that this
Speaker 1: is the sixties was just the sixties, was a seer stone.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, it was. Why can't I remember his name?
Speaker 2: I have the book. It's the Magic one with the
Speaker 2: folk magic. He brings out the folk magic and I
Speaker 2: can't remember his name right now. But but he did
Speaker 2: get excommunicated for that.
Speaker 1: And also husband and wife. Right.
Speaker 2: Uh, well, I think he might have started that way,
Speaker 2: but he was gay. Later it came out that he
Speaker 2: was gay.
Speaker 1: But maybe we're talking to different people. Are you talking?
Speaker 1: Is his name gay? Is Wayne?
Speaker 4: No? No, it's not. I'll google my name, you google.
Speaker 2: Yours, Okay, Okay, I'm like, the magic worldview is the
Speaker 2: one I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Oh, what's that one about?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Magic? Yeah, the magic of the Mormon Church. It's quite
Speaker 4: it's a good one.
Speaker 2: You should if you have not read that, you've got
Speaker 2: to read that by D.
Speaker 4: Michael Quinn.
Speaker 1: Okay, I will definitely read that. I was talking about
Speaker 1: Mormonism shadow or reality by the Tanners.
Speaker 4: Oh oh, Sandra Tanner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well Sandra and her husband Gerald.
Speaker 4: Okay, they are not gay. I'm sorry, Well, they might be.
Speaker 1: I don't know them to be, like, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I was talking about somebody else, but it does.
Speaker 1: They could also be from the gay family. Then they
Speaker 1: could be gay gay you never.
Speaker 2: Know double gaye Oh, guys, like this is like decisions
Speaker 2: where you have the good good bad, bad bad good.
Speaker 3: We have gay straight gay gay everybody.
Speaker 1: We're kidding. So this book went over many subjects and
Speaker 1: says of a critical view, including the Book of Mormon,
Speaker 1: the scriptures, Joseph Smith's life, alleged false prophecies, the missionary system,
Speaker 1: controversial historical incidents and subjects such as the Mountain Meadows massacre, wealth,
Speaker 1: the priesthood band, polygamy, and many doctrines and practices. So
Speaker 1: in that book was the first time I ever discovered
Speaker 1: any ceremonial magic stuff that anyone actually put in print
Speaker 1: or talked about because I had questions. No one liked
Speaker 1: my questions about the aliens, and no one liked the
Speaker 1: questions about the magic. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, you wanted to know about Xenu before
Speaker 2: you got to there for sure. That good questions You
Speaker 2: can't have skip, you can't have questions.
Speaker 1: I had questions when they wanted tithing from me from
Speaker 1: my referee and umpiring you know, fees from like fourteen
Speaker 1: and fifteen years old. Someone narked me out to the bishop.
Speaker 1: They wanted some tithing. I'm like, let me see some books.
Speaker 1: You guys got lot more money than I do. Bud,
Speaker 1: where's all this money going?
Speaker 4: You said that, I'm fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me see some books. Here you can see
Speaker 1: something like, oh my gosh, you can't say that.
Speaker 3: Where did you get that from?
Speaker 1: To be fair about my financial intricacies of level life,
Speaker 1: I I was. I was managing the US Air Force
Speaker 1: Military Police budget by the age of twenty nine, you know,
Speaker 1: at headquarters in DC. So it's kind of just been
Speaker 1: my thing with money and numbers. But yeah, the Mormons
Speaker 1: don't like you asking questions like that.
Speaker 4: I would assume they did not like that.
Speaker 2: And plus, don't you know, JJ, you have to go
Speaker 2: to the temple to ask the questions. In the temple
Speaker 2: room where you're busy, then you can never ask the questions.
Speaker 4: That's how that works.
Speaker 1: I can't believe they ever let me in a temple.
Speaker 1: I went to the DC Temple twice. I went to
Speaker 1: Chicago Temple twice.
Speaker 2: I heard the d C temples. Some shit, it's fancy.
Speaker 2: They got the president. They got a president office up
Speaker 2: in that you know that.
Speaker 1: It's really fancy. No, like they have a lot of
Speaker 1: work going on there.
Speaker 2: If you ask me, they have a full presidential room,
Speaker 2: mocking a presidential over oval office because someday.
Speaker 4: The church is going to rule America from there.
Speaker 1: And I'm not playing that sounds like the stuff scientology does.
Speaker 1: L Ron Hubbard's got a room in office and every Scientology,
Speaker 1: like I don't have every building, but you know, numerous
Speaker 1: buildings and numerous continents, right, because when he reincarnates, he's
Speaker 1: got to have all of his old shit, including his
Speaker 1: old smokes, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, See what's.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure jose Just Smith's got some stuff like that, right,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe bring it me on, right, it's.
Speaker 2: Probably all all the knowledge is in the canes, that's
Speaker 2: my guess. The dead people canes with the hair.
Speaker 1: So what was the name of this book again?
Speaker 2: You were describing Hotty Oh Magic Worldview by D Michael Quinn. Yes,
Speaker 2: that is quite and actually it's it's actually better because
Speaker 2: of the fact that he wrote it while he was
Speaker 2: an active member for the church. And then they were like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if they didn't proofread it, like they
Speaker 2: were like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 4: You're out?
Speaker 1: And so yeah, wait a second, so this was like
Speaker 1: an officially it started out as an officially sation book.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is just funny. What do you like?
Speaker 2: Troll them right, big time crazy. And then so everybody
Speaker 2: got a hold of this that I know of. And
Speaker 2: then I mean they didn't go solemonic magic, which is
Speaker 2: the truth.
Speaker 4: They made it nicer. They were like, it's folk magic.
Speaker 1: It's just okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They made it sound all like nice,
Speaker 2: but it no, it's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean there's been other books written since then, right,
Speaker 1: because I guess Peter Lavenda wrote Hayes after nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 4: Fantastic.
Speaker 2: Levenda did a great job. Yes, so he did.
Speaker 1: Which one? Which one do you do? What's comparatively speaking here, Hettie?
Speaker 1: What do we talk? I mean, I'm going to read
Speaker 1: this book anyway, And I enjoyed Lavenda's take. But comparatively
Speaker 1: speaking talking here.
Speaker 4: I mean he's the Mormons, so yeah, he has an
Speaker 4: upper hand. It's very good, but.
Speaker 1: They give it a very similar similar approach as far
Speaker 1: as the he.
Speaker 2: Let it out, Yeah, oh, he let it out. I
Speaker 2: was shocked when I read it. I was like, is
Speaker 2: this for real?
Speaker 3: Like what?
Speaker 2: And and the only thing they did is say, like, no,
Speaker 2: it's just folk magic.
Speaker 6: Everybody did it back then, don't you know. And I
Speaker 6: was like, it kind of looks like Solomon it was.
Speaker 6: It was a wicked phase they went through, That's all
Speaker 6: it was. Yeah, it was a wicked phase. We wasn't
Speaker 6: weird clothes and makeup. Yeah, a couple of years we're
Speaker 6: over it.
Speaker 1: I mean to a certain extent. There was Vermont at
Speaker 1: that time when he was grown up, was a was
Speaker 1: a hotbed of magical activities. You can call it folk
Speaker 1: magic or whatever you want. Today today said's a giant
Speaker 1: Dick statue.
Speaker 2: Do you know about this statue? Did you see did
Speaker 2: you see the stone? Oh it's not in Washington, d C?
Speaker 2: Never mind the one in Washington, d C. Has everybody
Speaker 2: sent the one? Yeah, you know everybody every state sent
Speaker 2: a block? Did you see the one Utah sent? It's amazing,
Speaker 2: I got it, the Washington Monument. Is that what we're
Speaker 2: talking about? So I think I believe that's true. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure that's right off the top of my mind.
Speaker 2: But it's one of I'm almost certain. And everybody every
Speaker 2: state sent a block for a stone for it, and
Speaker 2: and Utah hadn't become Utah yet, so they sent one
Speaker 2: that said desert and they've got the all Seeing Eye
Speaker 2: on it. It's the best you've ever seen. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's awesome. I'm gonna get a picture that story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's weird.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's it's the Washington Monument. Really, that's interesting.
Speaker 4: It's very fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think here's a Salt Lake City fun
Speaker 1: fact that George Washington. There's I don't understand the ends
Speaker 1: and the apts or what have you, but there's a
Speaker 1: whole lodge system within Freemasonry called the George Washington Lodges.
Speaker 1: Oh and one of them, there's only like thirteen of them,
Speaker 1: and one of them is Salt Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 2: Of course, you guys know they had a Paracelsian museum
Speaker 2: here for a while.
Speaker 4: Like a long while. Really damn, yeah they did, Yes,
Speaker 4: they did see it here. It is.
Speaker 2: We're the worst, Sorry, no, but yeah, no, they really did,
Speaker 2: and it stayed here for a long time.
Speaker 4: It's very strange. They actually say there's some.
Speaker 2: Alchemical like literal laboratories if you know how to follow
Speaker 2: the signs, So we should bring Nick here and all
Speaker 2: of us go on, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 3: Bring the drone.
Speaker 5: I've said before, even just with my drone, I of
Speaker 5: court stuff where it's like there's like geometry, there is
Speaker 5: something going on here with the way stuff is built.
Speaker 4: In part leads straight to like a weird al chemical.
Speaker 3: Definitely things like yeah, I've I've literally I I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think. I hope to God I saved it.
Speaker 5: But there was like a time where I was even
Speaker 5: going through like some Grim War or something and like
Speaker 5: literally found I think the design that is over by
Speaker 5: new Haven greens Park. It almost looks like a unicersal hextagram,
Speaker 5: but it's like off centered, it's not exact, and you
Speaker 5: could definitely tell it's off. And I found like that
Speaker 5: same symbol in the Grim War, and I was like
Speaker 5: what the fuck?
Speaker 4: You're like what?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I was like, I wouldn't have known that
Speaker 5: unless I threw it, sent my drone up and saw
Speaker 5: it myself.
Speaker 2: Well, how about the priesthood symbol being the sign of Mammon?
Speaker 4: You guys like.
Speaker 2: That, what's the sign of what's this the schedule of Mammon?
Speaker 2: It looks exactly like the priesthood symbol. It's pretty awesome,
Speaker 2: the sigil of Mammon. Yeah, Google that up. It's missing
Speaker 2: the internals, but the external of the whole set up
Speaker 2: geometry wise is exact. And then they just took out
Speaker 2: the middle. But I bet it's there, and I bet
Speaker 2: they hit it, which.
Speaker 1: We talking about. Yeah, they stood me pretty good there.
Speaker 1: I had to get up at five o'clock in the
Speaker 1: morning for seminary, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: They yeah, for sure, mon yep did the whole four years.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so this this is exactly the sign of
Speaker 2: the Melkezedic priesthood, without the center, without the symbols in
Speaker 2: the center. But the geometrical signs are exact. If you
Speaker 2: pull up the Melkezdic the Melkezdic and bring us up
Speaker 2: in comparison here, it's pretty fun. I've been playing with
Speaker 2: it quite a bit. I'm like, they're not hiding everything.
Speaker 2: Well they might be now who knows whatever.
Speaker 1: Things Oh jeez, this is it right here though.
Speaker 2: That's the same image, yep, except not it does not
Speaker 2: scary part in the middle.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 4: That reminds me of like a ladder. Actually, look at
Speaker 4: how this looks like a beehive.
Speaker 5: Though, yeah yeah, or to me it even does look
Speaker 5: like a like very like almost because I just finished
Speaker 5: doing the notes and finally is I'm going to do
Speaker 5: it solo recording recording Robert Floyd finally on the Occult Rejects,
Speaker 5: and he does have a few, uh a few like
Speaker 5: images where there is like a ladder is going up
Speaker 5: to like the clouds in the sun, where like an
Speaker 5: old seeing eye, and not that it's angled the same way,
Speaker 5: but it does kind of look look like that. It
Speaker 5: does even possibly look like that a ladder extending to
Speaker 5: the heavens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't have this in the center, of course,
Speaker 2: because we can't be that outward. But the actual symbols,
Speaker 2: the two squares, the stepping stacking stones.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it has that for sure. And also remember we're.
Speaker 1: There, yep, yeah, I see you're I see you're saying
Speaker 1: it is the general outline, isn't it. Yep.
Speaker 2: They can't put the middle. There's no way they're going
Speaker 2: to put the middle.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's what you gotta learn that they got.
Speaker 1: They give you the middle later, right, they feel they
Speaker 1: gave you the down hole after you join exactly.
Speaker 2: They're not going to put that out there for everyone
Speaker 2: to see. But the shape, as soon as I seen it,
Speaker 2: I was like oh okay, and we do have the
Speaker 2: law of prosperity as Mormons, right, what do they teach us.
Speaker 4: So interesting? They are one of the prosperous?
Speaker 1: Or is that the Vulcans?
Speaker 2: They want you to aliens, different alien stuff. They want
Speaker 2: you to go forward and be prosperous, make money.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, that's how they got out West, right, go
Speaker 1: for and be prosperous.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Why does symbol appears ten thousand times in the San
Speaker 1: Diego Temple?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 1: Why does it? What does that symbol appear ten thousand times?
Speaker 1: Does it?
Speaker 4: Why does it? Indeed?
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's very interesting, right does it? You
Speaker 2: start going through it, it's so much fun. It's just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it even looks like watch.
Speaker 1: When they put erected on the on the Dick statues,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it.
Speaker 4: Even looks like chocolate are they're erected?
Speaker 1: What we're saying, Nick, what is this symbol to you? Nick?
Speaker 1: Look at all this look at all this business. It's everywhere.
Speaker 5: When I first start, I don't know why, I don't
Speaker 5: think it does. But I did think of like the chakras,
Speaker 5: But I don't think that doesn't match.
Speaker 1: Actually, it is literally ever, at least the San Diego Temple.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's all.
Speaker 4: Over the place.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 4: It's weird, like why like why? But it's just for.
Speaker 2: You know, for people that say they don't believe in
Speaker 2: astrology or symbols or don't do any of that. It's
Speaker 2: kind of strange.
Speaker 1: They don't believe in magic.
Speaker 2: Well maybe, but maybe Undergred the magic, right Brigham was like,
Speaker 2: shut that up, shut up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So so this this was just our grandfather, right,
Speaker 1: Captain is like you said, is Achel Smith? Yep? Like
Speaker 1: I said, you'd have been an original member of the
Speaker 1: Society of Cincinnati in the Massachusetts chapter.
Speaker 2: It's funny that they spelled it that way because anywhere
Speaker 2: else that I've seen it spelled it's as a e L,
Speaker 2: like Aziel.
Speaker 1: Well, what what's this? What's this spelling?
Speaker 2: Do?
Speaker 1: What's that one about?
Speaker 2: I just think it looks less like Azazel. I think
Speaker 2: they might have tried to make it look better.
Speaker 4: Who knows.
Speaker 1: But it's a biblical name though, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, it was King David's youngest son.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting that it's also really similar to a
Speaker 2: fallen angel.
Speaker 1: Well, that is curious.
Speaker 4: That is curious. Indeed, but yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1: The Smith would migrate to Sharon, Vermont there in the
Speaker 1: southern part of Vermont, uh his father Azazel's son there,
Speaker 1: and then in eighteen thirty over there over by the
Speaker 1: Finger Lakes of York. As the story goes right, Joseph
Speaker 1: Smith would would would create what would be known as
Speaker 1: the Mormon Church. Is that correct? So that is April sixth,
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty in Fayette, New York. So I find I've
Speaker 1: always found I found these details interesting in studying the
Speaker 1: Society and more and early Mormon stuff because obviously Joseph's
Speaker 1: family being of the Society lineage there with his grandfather
Speaker 1: and his father and his brother's all being involved in
Speaker 1: the early Mormon Church. So somebody's a member of the
Speaker 1: society there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: You know who it.
Speaker 2: Probably was was Uncle Johnny that was the first professor
Speaker 2: of Dartmouth.
Speaker 1: It could have been him, sure, sure it was my guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you have this Society family going to Fayette, New York,
Speaker 1: which is a Society founded town named after General Lafayette,
Speaker 1: the French leader of the Society. Previously that was named Washington,
Speaker 1: New York because it was named after George Washington, the
Speaker 1: American leader of the Society. So obviously this don't I
Speaker 1: don't have any records there's a mound here where Joseph
Speaker 1: Smith started this, because once again, the Mormons aren't going
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, yeah, we started this on a
Speaker 1: mound right here. They deal with enough mound stuff, considering
Speaker 1: the hillcomor story right right, right. So what's always been
Speaker 1: curious to me is so they call it the Church
Speaker 1: of Christ, right, what's that about?
Speaker 2: Well, so his uncle Johnny at Dartmouth had a church
Speaker 2: named the Church of Christ before Joseph was ever a thing,
Speaker 2: and it had, curiously many of the teachings, and they
Speaker 2: were very Campbell lite in nature. But also I think
Speaker 2: that Joseph took it a step further. You're mentioning a
Speaker 2: lot of French influence, and I do believe that Luman
Speaker 2: Walters possibly influenced Joseph Smith with Martinism.
Speaker 4: And I think he took it to the full level
Speaker 4: with magic, that's my guess.
Speaker 1: Oh, with the French Society, so the Society Cincinnati was
Speaker 1: one chapter for the original thirteen colonies, and the French
Speaker 1: had a chapter. But the French may as well have
Speaker 1: just been over here too, because France kicked him out
Speaker 1: of there in seventeen ninety two and they weren't allowed
Speaker 1: back handle nineteen twenty five. So all those French, yeah,
Speaker 1: all those French guys, I mean, Napoleon was a French
Speaker 1: side of the Society of Cincinnati. So he when he
Speaker 1: took over, he let out the ones, the generals that
Speaker 1: hadn't been guillotine, like General Lafayette, and they were all
Speaker 1: they all lived in exile and whatnot. But yeah, the French,
Speaker 1: the king they put in charge of her, he was
Speaker 1: also a member of the Society of Cincinnati. He was
Speaker 1: a turncoat on the rest of his buddies there. He
Speaker 1: King Louis the Philippe, the second he you know, he
Speaker 1: was the one who apparently wanted to kill all his
Speaker 1: buds and put him in jail. But yeah, when Napoleon
Speaker 1: took over, he was letting folks out and whatnot. But
Speaker 1: everyone lived over here in exile, even Napoleon and his well,
Speaker 1: Napoleon's brother. Some arguments have been made that Napoleon lived
Speaker 1: here in exile as well.
Speaker 2: Very curious, you know, with the story that Joseph Smith
Speaker 2: claims to be a Merivigian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these all yeah, both sides. These these French folks
Speaker 1: are all of the same bloodlines, right right, same stuff.
Speaker 1: All these society all these society families are right, so
Speaker 1: they all come from the same place.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: In fact, one of the one of the characters I
Speaker 1: wanted to discuss here was he was a He's a
Speaker 1: forefather to so many people, including basically anyone who's a
Speaker 1: Mormon leader. Right and uh And I believe you said
Speaker 1: this was a forefather to you, right right?
Speaker 4: HOTEI that I was gonna check, and I didn't.
Speaker 2: So I am Campbell's, I am Morgan's, I am Taylor.
Speaker 4: Uh. And I think those are the main three main Okay.
Speaker 1: Well, as far as the early leaders go, he's the
Speaker 1: forefather to Joseph Smith, Hiram, Wilfrid Woodruff, Oliver Calgary, Harley, P. Pratt,
Speaker 1: Norson Pratt. Okay, this is John Lothrop. He was the
Speaker 1: early clergyman there in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. But as
Speaker 1: you can see, he's the forefather to fillmore Garfield, Grant Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: both Bushes, Benedict Arnold, oh wow, the Ellis brothers, Ezra
Speaker 1: Taff Benson of course, will Bill Hiccock, George, the Romney Boys,
Speaker 1: the Huntsmans. You were talking about the Huntsmons before, m
Speaker 1: very wealthy billionaire Mormon family who invented styrofoam am.
Speaker 2: I correct, I did not know this one. I know
Speaker 2: they invented television, which is fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1: John Huntsmon's dad had like the exclusive contract with McDonald's
Speaker 1: for all styrofoam products years ago. Weird they made that
Speaker 1: big McDonald's money, McDonald tyrophone money.
Speaker 4: Oh why does that not surprise me?
Speaker 1: Chemical company? Right, I don't know if they invented it,
Speaker 1: but they definitely were making a lot of money from it, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean Clint Eastwood, Kevin Bak and Jake
Speaker 1: Jill and old Jeffrey Dahmer. Right, So if you if
Speaker 1: you're descended from this dude, you're distant cousins with Jeffrey Downes.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's all good.
Speaker 1: I'm in that same boat. So you'll see Ulyssi's as
Speaker 1: grain on there. That's through his uh, his great grandmother,
Speaker 1: the Huntington that's also one of my fore mothers.
Speaker 4: Oh, I am related to Huntington, I know that for sure.
Speaker 1: So the Huntington's are from are from Lothrop there, the Loathsop.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. He spawned so many people in this country.
Speaker 1: It's not he's not the only one of that era,
Speaker 1: but he's one of the major ones of that area
Speaker 1: right where you see all these descendants from. But one
Speaker 1: of his.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they spread it around rights.
Speaker 1: One of his descendants through they well, they definitely do that. Especially.
Speaker 1: You know why there's still some huge families today is
Speaker 1: it hasn't really changed, I guess right.
Speaker 4: Nope.
Speaker 1: So one of Lothrop's descendants there was this fella, Elias Buell.
Speaker 1: This is my forefather, who was the son of Martha Huntington.
Speaker 1: He'd been the great great uncle of Ulysses S. Grant.
Speaker 1: He uh was a major in the revolution out of
Speaker 1: the Connecticut militia there and uh he would his his
Speaker 1: unit would serve as a security essentially security force or
Speaker 1: you know there was no service back then, but a
Speaker 1: security force for General Washington there in New York City.
Speaker 1: And Buell's kids would inter marry with his general his
Speaker 1: boss's kids Jesse Root, who was the general charge of
Speaker 1: the Connecticut chapter of the Society of Cincinnati. So this
Speaker 1: dude was connected in those regards, but through through John
Speaker 1: Lothrop there he's he's only he's not that distantly related
Speaker 1: from Joseph Smith. Right, he's second cousins I think, three
Speaker 1: times removed or third cousins twice removed. One of the
Speaker 1: I think that's what it was, one of those two
Speaker 1: I did. I did the genealogy theology. Forget the precise ones.
Speaker 1: I've look that up here as i'm hmmer hammer. But
Speaker 1: I would say this dude was in the no giving
Speaker 1: all these other society Cincinnati relations, you know, giving it
Speaker 1: this dude's connections. But when he dies in eighteen twenty six,
Speaker 1: I g it's eighteen twenty six. He was. He lived
Speaker 1: from seventeen thirty seven till well, this is tell me here,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you die here, buddy, eighteen twenty four in Albany,
Speaker 1: New York. So by way of Vermont. So he settled
Speaker 1: to town in Vermont called Huntington, Vermont. You know, there's
Speaker 1: disputes on how the namesake of it, but he's the
Speaker 1: guy who had the land grants following the revolution, and
Speaker 1: it's named after his mother. So in my opinion, anyhow,
Speaker 1: he ends up dying in Albany. But on his last
Speaker 1: Will and Testament. Now I don't know when this was
Speaker 1: written on there. It could have been scribbled in there
Speaker 1: later afterwards, who knows. But on his last Will and
Speaker 1: Testament again he dies in Albany, last Will and Testament,
Speaker 1: he says, don't let the Mormons baptize me for the dead.
Speaker 1: Good idea, right, But if Joseph Smith is inventing the
Speaker 1: Mormon Church in eighteen thirty as the Church of Christ,
Speaker 1: right or just west of Albany in a couple of hours, right,
Speaker 1: also migrating for Vermont, just like Buell, and also family
Speaker 1: of Bule, So those migrations were similar time frame as well.
Speaker 1: The you know, how does Elis Buell you know want
Speaker 1: to not get back? You know what's he saying? No,
Speaker 1: no necromancy there, Mormon folk, you know eighteen twenty four?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I am years hm hmm. So who who's who's
Speaker 4: doing what?
Speaker 3: Where?
Speaker 4: How?
Speaker 1: Right? Well? Yeah? What you know what? You know, what
Speaker 1: is this origin story of the Mormon Church? Right? So
Speaker 1: what what's the official narrative their? Heidi? You just many
Speaker 1: folks with the the eighteen thirty version.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the one of four at least four
Speaker 2: that we know of about you were.
Speaker 1: Saying his uncle had a Church of Christ earlier, but
Speaker 1: then Joseph searched this Church of Christ. So was there
Speaker 1: any connections there?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do believe so.
Speaker 2: So it's the Dartmouth College connection, which nobody wants to
Speaker 2: talk about really, and that's that. You know, people say
Speaker 2: it's a blip that hybrid went there to the Indian School,
Speaker 2: and I was always like, why is he at an
Speaker 2: Indian school? Like it never quite made sense to me,
Speaker 2: And then I started lo king and you know, Nathaniel
Speaker 2: Smith is actually the doctor that saved Joseph's legg and
Speaker 2: Lucy Macsmith's book, which, by the way, Brigham tried to
Speaker 2: burn out of existence. She states that doctor Nathan came
Speaker 2: and saved his leg, and everybody was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: why doesn't he have a last name? Well he doesn't
Speaker 2: because it's her own. Do you think you would forget
Speaker 2: your own last name? That seems rather strange. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: so you know that's who she calls on is uncle
Speaker 2: Johnny Smith and Nathan Smith. Well I figured out probably
Speaker 2: why number one, Johnny Smith's whole background goes clear into
Speaker 2: a good basis for a lot of theology, but also
Speaker 2: the Indian College at Dartmouth was to train them to
Speaker 2: be basically priests to these Native Americans, so almost a
Speaker 2: Jesuit school really, and he went there, not for a block,
Speaker 2: he went for four years and he was almost done
Speaker 2: when there was a huge problem.
Speaker 4: Remember I said Nathan was a doctor.
Speaker 2: Well, back then, bodies are kind of hard to come by,
Speaker 2: you know, you're trying to teach people medical things, and
Speaker 2: so they were known as grave diggers. And you know,
Speaker 2: it was really weird to think that I know some
Speaker 2: other people that were diggers and never found any gold.
Speaker 2: But maybe they sustained themselves another way. They did sleep
Speaker 2: by Alvin's body for five weeks and ran in the
Speaker 2: paper that they would be there, and so that makes
Speaker 2: a lot more sense now, maybe wondering if they made
Speaker 2: their money a different way. They did run him out
Speaker 2: of town, and he ran and started another college, a
Speaker 2: medical school, and this is Nathaniel Smith and runs over
Speaker 2: to Yale.
Speaker 1: Funny enough, it is an interesting dynamic in the background
Speaker 1: of this whole family because he's not certainly not a
Speaker 1: poor farm boy, right.
Speaker 2: No, And these are cut and people want to say, well,
Speaker 2: this is irrelevant because they're cousins of his grandpa are
Speaker 2: or something. But I'm sorry, they're from the same area.
Speaker 2: The uncle Johnny lived like five miles away and the
Speaker 2: other one lived like thirty miles away. It's it's really
Speaker 2: not like for where they grew up all in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: We get back to you know, inquisition land for this one.
Speaker 1: Well, in comparative analysis, though, the taf family would do
Speaker 1: the same thing, right. One would go to you know,
Speaker 1: the north the Northern mount to Vermont kind of regions,
Speaker 1: one wing one another wing would go to start Yale.
Speaker 1: One would be prominent Mormons on another wing. Yep, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: starting the skull and bones, not Yale, not you know,
Speaker 1: let's start the skull and bones.
Speaker 4: Skull and bones.
Speaker 2: Well, and then what do they do once we come
Speaker 2: out here? Yeah, they come and sanction chapter here. Has
Speaker 2: that ever been done before since? Not to my knowledge.
Speaker 4: So it's because it's their family.
Speaker 1: So so in eighteen twenty four, Joseph is what eighteen
Speaker 1: years old?
Speaker 4: Oh boy, don't make me math, no, let.
Speaker 1: Me look it up. Now. I think he's I think
Speaker 1: he's I think he's twenty years old because he had
Speaker 1: his first he had his first apparent Angel Morona. I
Speaker 1: came the first time right when he.
Speaker 2: Was sixteen fourteen, they say, fourteen.
Speaker 1: Holy smokes, he's he's a he's an under chira overachiever.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, over achiever. Yeah, look at him, go Urgent Scrier.
Speaker 1: So that's in Sharon, Vermont, right. I'm just the whole
Speaker 1: journey of these folks take is interesting really if you
Speaker 1: look at it logistically, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: he's born over here in Sharon, Vermont. Like I said, Uh,
Speaker 1: Elias Buelle would be right up over here, just north
Speaker 1: of there, and they'd migrate over the same pathway over
Speaker 1: through Albany, New York. Right, I mean these are the
Speaker 1: old pathways that they just built new roads on. There's
Speaker 1: you know, we're not we're not inventing new pathways and
Speaker 1: new roads really over in this country. The old the
Speaker 1: old foot paths so across America from the Natives became
Speaker 1: the old stage coach passed and they became the interstate
Speaker 1: highway system. So nothing new here. But they traveled a
Speaker 1: great distance, right, I mean from Sharon, Vermont, A Fayett,
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking almost two hundred and eighty miles
Speaker 1: or so, and then another you know, sixty or so
Speaker 1: to fifty five to the Hill Kimora, you know, the
Speaker 1: Promised Land.
Speaker 2: They did say that they were kind of trying to
Speaker 2: get away from this scandal about the grave digging, and
Speaker 2: she owed some people some money. They really gloss over this.
Speaker 2: You have to look hard for this information about this
Speaker 2: time frame, because they make it seem like he was
Speaker 2: born and then they moved and nobody knows why, and
Speaker 2: that's all and there's this big, huge missing time piece.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I often wonder if his cousin Elia's Buell
Speaker 1: there didn't travel with the whole Mormon crowd out of Vermont.
Speaker 1: You know, like I said, the town he lived in
Speaker 1: the Mormon side of the Taff family there, they all
Speaker 1: settle in up there. So if you go to that
Speaker 1: town hind to Vermont, it's all Buells descendants and everyone
Speaker 1: else in there's Taffs, and there's some intermarrying between the
Speaker 1: two in the town graveyard. So you know, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. This early Mormon migration out of Vermont seems
Speaker 1: to me maybe more connected and earlier than we're told,
Speaker 1: and in a different storyline than we're told. And probably
Speaker 1: far more magical than we're told.
Speaker 4: Right, Oh, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned the Campbell Lights and relative to Joseph's
Speaker 1: uncle there, Yes, what's the story? What's the story there?
Speaker 1: Because Sidney Sidney Rigdon was a Cambelite minister, was he not?
Speaker 1: He was?
Speaker 2: And he was also his cousin, Yeah, wasn't he wasn't
Speaker 2: Sydney Rigdon his cousin, I remember directly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 1: To the Bratt boys and uh and uh Caldrey.
Speaker 4: Caldrey is the one I'm thinking of taking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Caldre I think, yeah, those were those were witnesses, right,
Speaker 1: his first witnesses of the Golden the Golden blades.
Speaker 4: Right, Yep.
Speaker 1: He recruits, he recruits rigged in over there. Strangely enough,
Speaker 1: this is how the story again, this is how the
Speaker 1: story goes. He recruits rigged in somewhere, maybe in around Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: it seems.
Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, Sinny's interesting.
Speaker 1: Am I back that?
Speaker 2: I make it, You're back, You're back.
Speaker 1: I'm back. So I guess ri Rigdon was the minister
Speaker 1: of a Campbelhite church. They swopped him up in around Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: I think as the legend goes, and and then these
Speaker 1: were the earlier these This is most of the congregation
Speaker 1: of Joseph Smith's early Church of Christ was Sidney Rigden's
Speaker 1: entire congregation, is my understanding.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And who were these Campbelllightes because they would later spawn
Speaker 1: the Seventh day Adventists, to the Jehovah's Witnesses and a
Speaker 1: bunch of other apocalyptic shenanigans.
Speaker 4: Right, yep, they do well.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always like, hey, the world's going to end,
Speaker 1: and when it doesn't end, and then like a contingent
Speaker 1: of those folks break off and they they all agree
Speaker 1: on a new date in a new leader. It's going
Speaker 1: to end in this date, you know. And then when
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen, you know, rinsewa, wash and repeat. There
Speaker 1: it just keeps going. I guess right, m.
Speaker 2: Well, we have to have a new date. We can't
Speaker 2: just end things. We're just a little off the change
Speaker 2: the calendar at.
Speaker 3: Least twenty years, so you can milk people pretty long.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Fast forward to the nineties and the interweb connection
Speaker 1: or interweb ear you get you know, the Purple Road,
Speaker 1: Black Nike, you know, Hell's or Heaven's Gate, say Hell's Gate,
Speaker 1: Heavens Gate cult trying to catch a right on a comet,
Speaker 1: on Hanley's comet, you know, I mean, I mean it's
Speaker 1: the same theology from these candle lights, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Sidney rigged is interesting. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: dark theories around Sydney riggedon later and so it gets weird,
Speaker 2: we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's kind of a shadowy character. I've always
Speaker 1: thought the same thing, Heidi, because he's again you know,
Speaker 1: they pick him up later on the trip, right, you know,
Speaker 1: as they're always escaping all these towns for their hoodlum activities,
Speaker 1: it seems right, that's josephin gang trying to swindle folks
Speaker 1: out of something, and you know, left and right, so
Speaker 1: it seems like they're alway getting run out of folks.
Speaker 1: They picked this guy up along the way and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can have my entire congregation. Like what's that about?
Speaker 2: Well, what's it about when you've got all these like
Speaker 2: kings and Queen's kids and like later down the road,
Speaker 2: maybe not their direct kids. You know, they got swindled
Speaker 2: here too. What are they promising everyone?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: So we went to school with at the same school
Speaker 2: with Hiram, right this.
Speaker 1: So you're familiar with this character. M h nice. So
Speaker 1: as the story goes, he goes from Church of Christ,
Speaker 1: picks up Sygney Rigdon, and then somewhere around what eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty two, maybe they're they're calling it, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the you know LDS, the Church of Jesus Christ, the
Speaker 1: latterday Saints.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: So when did the Book of Warmer get written? Oh boy,
Speaker 1: you know, and when did anyone see that wasn't named
Speaker 1: Joseph or his cousins or brothers.
Speaker 2: Well, I do know this, they only saw it with
Speaker 2: their spiritual eyes, and.
Speaker 4: Then anybody later they were like kicked out. You know.
Speaker 2: Everybody that actually said they saw it was excommunicated at
Speaker 2: some point.
Speaker 3: So eighteen thirty eighteen thirty was the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's right there when he's kicking it off
Speaker 1: in fe in New York. Then as the story goes,
Speaker 1: so I wonder whoever, you know, as you're saying, no
Speaker 1: one got to see the Golden plates, but I wonder
Speaker 1: when day let folks see the actual Book of Mormon,
Speaker 1: because I want to. I really question that storyline because
Speaker 1: they don't pick up Sidney Sidney rigged until some time
Speaker 1: later after eighteen thirty. And what's the story on Solomon
Speaker 1: Spaulding because this character runs in my opinion, this manuscript
Speaker 1: he wrote serves as the basis of the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 2: Well, and he also went to school with Highrum at
Speaker 2: the Dartmouth Indian College. So and their doctor there, Nathaniel,
Speaker 2: you know the Chases, you know, the whole chase people
Speaker 2: like that talked about him being magical and the affidavits
Speaker 2: and everything we bring forth.
Speaker 4: Well, he marries the Chase girl, the doctor does, so.
Speaker 1: I mean just saying, yeah, so he's an interesting character, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Regdan gets baptized in September of eighteen thirty. They're in
Speaker 1: New Yorkertland.
Speaker 4: They're all together, That's what I'm saying for sure.
Speaker 1: And well, so Regdan comes from Pittsburgh on his way
Speaker 1: up to Kurland to meet the Mormons. And this dude's
Speaker 1: from Pittsburgh, was living in Pittsburgh. Died in the Washington County, right,
Speaker 1: this is where he died. That's where did was living.
Speaker 1: And he wrote this thing called are you familiar with
Speaker 1: this narrative? He wrote this thing called the Manuscript Story
Speaker 1: of County ott Creek, an unpublished historical romance about the
Speaker 1: law civilization of mound builders of North America.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they said they just found it, and you
Speaker 2: know whatever. But they knew these people. It's not like
Speaker 2: they didn't know these people. It's a lie.
Speaker 1: Oh, they absolutely knew each other, right, they.
Speaker 4: Went to school together.
Speaker 1: So what do you what are your thoughts on this
Speaker 1: manuscript serving is the basis for the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 2: I think whatever they used to fill in the holes
Speaker 2: between the magic that they performed, they used. I think
Speaker 2: that they they were you know oftentimes and I know
Speaker 2: Nick can attest to this, like when you're reading something
Speaker 2: that is a magical working, it doesn't have to be
Speaker 2: a magical looking works, like the people that know the
Speaker 2: magic will see it there. And that is exactly what
Speaker 2: I think it is. And I think this was the
Speaker 2: cover story, like possible, right.
Speaker 1: This is the Warring Natives, Yeah, this is this is
Speaker 1: this is where that all that narrative cup It's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great way to look at the filler because
Speaker 1: this is literally the same tale. And again you as
Speaker 1: you point out, they know the Smith's boys and Hiram
Speaker 1: was just as involved in all this stuff as his
Speaker 1: brother Joseph.
Speaker 2: Absolutely he was the he was the one that was
Speaker 2: almost a priest. So he's like nearly a Jesuit. I
Speaker 2: mean he knew some things. And Uncle Johnny there the uncle.
Speaker 2: He was like a master over languages. He knew like
Speaker 2: thirty different languages. I think they said like it was crazy,
Speaker 2: and and they just skip over him, like where what
Speaker 2: the hell happened there? Like if they never had any interaction,
Speaker 2: that's fine, But where Hiram is literally learning underneath him?
Speaker 2: And what is Hiram doing? And this is when Joseph's
Speaker 2: sick and hurt.
Speaker 4: What would you bring home.
Speaker 2: For your brother? What did you bring home for your brother?
Speaker 4: You know, a book? Maybe he owned the local bookstore.
Speaker 1: Some magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they said that this got a knic Khan disappeared
Speaker 2: when they left town.
Speaker 1: So from oh, well they never did. They never left
Speaker 1: town in any good fashion, did they anywhere they lived?
Speaker 1: Did they.
Speaker 2: Noop? And they owed they had a reputation yep.
Speaker 1: So the other filler I would say for the Book
Speaker 1: of Mormon comes from this book and back to the
Speaker 1: Society of Cincinnati. This is a founding father, Elias Budenow,
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called A Star in the West,
Speaker 1: a humble attempt to discover the long lost ten Tribes
Speaker 1: of Israel preparatory to the return to the beloff City
Speaker 1: of Jerusalem. So basically the philosophical and theological basis for
Speaker 1: the Mormon as you put the filler parts of the
Speaker 1: Mormon Mormon you know system. And back to the Society
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati again, this guy was a member O G member,
Speaker 1: founding father.
Speaker 2: The Society of Cincinnati. Did they practice magic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suspect that's one, you know, I suspect that's
Speaker 1: one of their big secrets. So I've done actually my
Speaker 1: attempt at trying to understand not so much whatever their
Speaker 1: their theology is, but just pointing out the other obvious
Speaker 1: occult you know, patterns of of their their headquarters building
Speaker 1: and stuff, and you know, the the the tour, taking
Speaker 1: the tour, seeing all their tapestries and whatnot. Myself and Recluse,
Speaker 1: the host of the Farm podcast, we did a tour
Speaker 1: and we we did our occult and or tour of
Speaker 1: the Society Cincinnati headquarters. So they're an interesting bunch. They're
Speaker 1: an interesting bunch.
Speaker 4: Do you think they're Martinists?
Speaker 1: I think they've matched together a number of theologies of
Speaker 1: an occult fashion in which to make their own so
Speaker 1: seemingly based upon their own you know, imagery and iconography
Speaker 1: across their situations. They seem to venerate Diana the Hunting
Speaker 1: Galley because.
Speaker 2: The French, you know, the French name. I just was like,
Speaker 2: this makes so much more sense because you know the
Speaker 2: Martinists and France.
Speaker 1: Well there's there. I don't know a lot about it,
Speaker 1: so you told me about some of that stuff, so
Speaker 1: I'll have to look more into how deep it is
Speaker 1: in the French side specifically, that's where, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's where it mostly was like circulated around.
Speaker 4: Does Lumen Walters come up in this group? Is he
Speaker 4: a part of this society by chance?
Speaker 1: I don't know that name.
Speaker 4: Oh, Lumen Walters is fantastic.
Speaker 1: Well, they also venerate Hecate, which is to me a
Speaker 1: very dark goddess for goddess right, lumin like luminescent, like.
Speaker 4: Light bearer, lumen.
Speaker 2: If you put in the like little encyclopedia look up
Speaker 2: there with media and.
Speaker 1: Walter, Joseph Smith mentor Okay, yep.
Speaker 2: He was an occultist and yeah, all those things super fun.
Speaker 1: What did he do? He's from Letchfield.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, I think he might be a little key
Speaker 2: for you. He came back from France. Uh, dark and godless.
Speaker 4: That's what they said. And he was a doctor, supposed
Speaker 4: a doctor.
Speaker 1: What was he doing in France?
Speaker 4: He was traveling because he's a supposed doctor.
Speaker 1: Was it? Okay? It wasn't like it wasn't a government
Speaker 1: or a freemason.
Speaker 2: Tagers so well, so they say, right, it's very vague,
Speaker 2: but all of a sudden it pops up and they
Speaker 2: run him out of town because he's a godless, occultist,
Speaker 2: fortune teller, bad guy. It's very interesting. I think he's
Speaker 2: the Martinist connection for Joseph. And if you know he'd
Speaker 2: just been in France, it makes complete sense.
Speaker 1: Well, it looks like maybe Brigham too. He was Brigham
Speaker 1: Young's fortune teller. This is this real stories, This is real, and.
Speaker 4: They want this buried.
Speaker 2: They you don't hear shit about Lumen Walters anywhere.
Speaker 1: So yep, yeah, I have to do some genealogy one
Speaker 1: get back to you. He sounds like an character worthy
Speaker 1: of being from somewhere where he came. This boy came
Speaker 1: from somewhere and you know that the origins these blue
Speaker 1: blood kind of society folks, right, the joke.
Speaker 2: Book, the Book of Puki p u k e I
Speaker 2: that they did on the Mormons, you know, do you
Speaker 2: know this story? So? Okay, So Joseph took the book
Speaker 2: to get it printed, and the printer knew the family,
Speaker 2: and he was like, would you look at this ship
Speaker 2: right here? Like I mean serious, This guy was having
Speaker 2: a fit, and he was like, so he thought it
Speaker 2: was hysterical. So he made his own book and it
Speaker 2: was like a joke book on Joseph Smith. And so
Speaker 2: it's called the Book of p U k e I Pukai.
Speaker 2: And so he makes fun of Lumen Walters in it
Speaker 2: as well, and so Luman pops up all over the
Speaker 2: place and he's like, once I talked to my magician
Speaker 2: in it till me. He's like a total dick the printer.
Speaker 2: And so after this, Joseph was like, that's enough. This
Speaker 2: is serious. This is serious church business, sir. So he
Speaker 2: went and got his little his little copyright so that
Speaker 2: nobody could make fun of him anymore.
Speaker 4: I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1: That's a very power move right there.
Speaker 4: Yep, gotta do it.
Speaker 1: So it's so what So from eighteen twenty three to
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty seven. I guess we skipped over this. This
Speaker 1: is when Joseph got a got real MOUNDI like in life,
Speaker 1: and had these meetings with the Moroni at Angel Moroni
Speaker 1: from eighteen twenty three to eighteen twenty seven, various instances
Speaker 1: and the Hill Kimora. This is the holy this is
Speaker 1: the mecha side of the Mormons right today.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he had to do that on the Fall
Speaker 2: Equinox too, when spirits can come through for Martinists. I
Speaker 2: think I dare say it took him that long to
Speaker 2: get the things he got because he was perfecting, like
Speaker 2: because you know all the things you have to perfect
Speaker 2: before you can break through to your HGA.
Speaker 4: That's just my guess. I'm just saying.
Speaker 1: But that's what I was going to ask you. So
Speaker 1: this is a very crawly like ritual. It was my
Speaker 1: understanding from what you were describing before, right.
Speaker 2: That's honestly. Honestly, the more I study, I never thought
Speaker 2: it would go in this direction, but it did, and
Speaker 2: I was as shocked as anybody.
Speaker 1: But with D.
Speaker 2: Michael Quinn's work and then the stuff about Lumen Walters
Speaker 2: and then I deep dove Martinism on a tangent. I
Speaker 2: wasn't even trying to study about Mormons like at all,
Speaker 2: and boom like all this stuff, and I just was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is this is not regular Masonry we're talking about here,
Speaker 2: because if it was just the Scottish Rite, it would
Speaker 2: be very early on at this time for it to
Speaker 2: travel clear here and to be organized.
Speaker 4: Right, think of this, like, no, they're not about that.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying this is this is some network to
Speaker 1: the society Cincinnati, right, whatever, this is cool? I think
Speaker 1: so well, many of these men are Freemasons, as as
Speaker 1: a demonstrated they're all society man.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4: I think you're hitting the nail on the head.
Speaker 2: And this is like goes into even more so why
Speaker 2: they're so involved in secret societies to this day, right.
Speaker 1: Big time, big time, And again I can droll correlations
Speaker 1: all modern day parapolitics in the society of Cincinnati, including
Speaker 1: you know, I mean just again and basically anything, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, including let's just go
Speaker 1: with this one. So both the guys who took shots
Speaker 1: at Trump, right, Ruth and and uh, what's the what's
Speaker 1: the other fella's name? What's this what's the weird looking
Speaker 1: fellow in Pennsylvania, real squirrely looking.
Speaker 2: Guy, the one that worked for Black Nick you know
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3: Who uh talk about?
Speaker 1: No, No, that's Trump shooter in Pennsylvania, the Butler Rally guy.
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name anyhow. Anyhow, they're both paternal
Speaker 1: descendants from members. I don't know if their members, but
Speaker 1: they're both paternal descendants of original members of the Society
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati. So going back to their paternal line, you'll
Speaker 1: find a Lieutenant Ruth, and you'll find a colonel you know,
Speaker 1: squarely looking fellow in Pennsylvania and in Washington, Pennsylvania, right
Speaker 1: right where Solomon spauld and the Book of Mormon seems
Speaker 1: to respawn, same county, same time frame, right, those are
Speaker 1: the guys that settled that that area. That's the first
Speaker 1: free city in America, Washington, Washington, Pennsylvania there in Washington County,
Speaker 1: first free city in America settled seventeen eighty three by
Speaker 1: Clan Vance. Just saying Clan Vance is everywhere. That's That's
Speaker 1: what I like to say.
Speaker 4: He's not the president either, define.
Speaker 1: So it is weird though it does seem again like
Speaker 1: we can I'm sure you've seen in a lot of
Speaker 1: your studies, like relative to the Howard Hughes situation and
Speaker 1: the stuff we've talked about on our on our Occult
Speaker 1: Reject series there with the Mormon stuff, like these are
Speaker 1: the folks you're talking about? Are the Mormon pioneering families, right,
Speaker 1: that are involved in these these activities out west and
Speaker 1: controlling kind of the power in politics out there, right,
Speaker 1: this gay fa for example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes so much more sense when you're talking
Speaker 2: about a group or a society because I could never
Speaker 2: figure out why the hell all these blue bloods were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: let's just go to Utah, like from England or mine
Speaker 2: were in South Africa or yeah, South Africa at the time.
Speaker 4: But I was like, why would they come here? Why
Speaker 4: would they come here?
Speaker 3: Like what?
Speaker 2: But it makes more sense if that this was like
Speaker 2: a decision made by a society, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again they're they're Freemasons, where they also have
Speaker 1: other stuff. Again, this was this was kind of some
Speaker 1: of their philosophies, as published by one of their early
Speaker 1: members and a founding father of America, Elves Boodino. This
Speaker 1: is what the Mormons adapted to their lost tribes you know, philosophies.
Speaker 1: So they did take the magical stuff from Freemasonry, right
Speaker 1: and wrap that up into Mormonism and other magical stuff
Speaker 1: as well as as you're pointing out with these these
Speaker 1: you know, Holy Guardian Angel things. So what what do
Speaker 1: you think is the what are the what are the
Speaker 1: biggest comparisons between Crowley's holding Holy Guardian Angel you know
Speaker 1: ritual and Joseph Smiths here? What what are we talking here?
Speaker 4: Oh? They're very paralleled, at least I felt, Nick. How
Speaker 4: do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 5: No, Well, when you kind of mentioned it that other
Speaker 5: time on the show, I don't know why I never clicked,
Speaker 5: but uh, I do think Brona would make sense of
Speaker 5: it was probably Joseph Smith's h GA, Right, there's something
Speaker 5: that in a sense, Yes, that's what I believe. That's
Speaker 5: that I could see that.
Speaker 2: You know, I think he took him a long time
Speaker 2: because you have to perfect the rituals and he was
Speaker 2: learning it kind of on more so on his own
Speaker 2: at this point.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but right, so the story goes it's eighteen
Speaker 1: twenty three to eighteen twenty seven. However, you know a
Speaker 1: couple hundred miles back there on the journey east when
Speaker 1: they just came from a lot you know, a loal.
Speaker 1: The Society Cincinnati connected dude as well to George Washington,
Speaker 1: to the you know, the head of the or the
Speaker 1: Connecticut chapter. You know, he's connected everywhere. He's cousins with
Speaker 1: Joseph and Gang, right, you know, not that distant of
Speaker 1: a cousin, that is. You know, he's migrating west at
Speaker 1: the same time with these folks. And he dies in
Speaker 1: Albany and he's saying, don't let them baptize me for
Speaker 1: the dead. So you know, you know, this is a
Speaker 1: couple hundred miles away, you know, a couple of years later, really,
Speaker 1: you know, because the first, the first meeting he had,
Speaker 1: he didn't get any kind of Book of Mormon or
Speaker 1: anything from that. Right, that didn't go well for it,
Speaker 1: did he?
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, definitely not well. I mean he was
Speaker 2: making such good friends with everyone.
Speaker 1: So I really questioned this timeline, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I really questioned this timeline, given the Society Cincinnati all
Speaker 1: around this business. Again, they found it in Faette, New
Speaker 1: York there which is again another society town, and right
Speaker 1: nearby to Faette, New York, you know, just to give
Speaker 1: you an example of how deep it was in society
Speaker 1: territory Cincinnatis, New York right nearby, that's next door they
Speaker 1: have that. So we're talking to heavy society territory. This
Speaker 1: is erupting from again Washington, PA. Where Riggedin is coming
Speaker 1: from and where that saw him, the Spaulding fella comes from,
Speaker 1: you know, heavy society country. Crooks, Matthew Crooks, Colonel Crooks.
Speaker 1: That was a fella's name. He he he was a
Speaker 1: society member out of Pennsylvania. That was a settled one
Speaker 1: of the early settlers there in Washington, PA. His younger
Speaker 1: brother would be uh, would be one of the early
Speaker 1: settlers of Cincinnati, you know headquarters.
Speaker 2: Basically, I think the reason why they so often pull
Speaker 2: apart from you know, why would you hide the fact
Speaker 2: that your grandpa, you know, started helped start the Boston
Speaker 2: Tea Party. Why would you hide the fact that he
Speaker 2: was Captain Samuel Smith. Why would you hide the fact
Speaker 2: that all of these things like this is not taught
Speaker 2: to us where we're proud to be very patriotic as
Speaker 2: LDS people.
Speaker 4: Why would they hide that? Right? But it's all.
Speaker 2: Because it connects back to where Massachusetts and what does
Speaker 2: that connect to Well, you know, he was also famous
Speaker 2: for being involved in the inquisition, and if you are
Speaker 2: practicing magic, what's the best way to do anything to
Speaker 2: deflect off yourself blame someone else. He had someone hung,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean he literally testified against her, and
Speaker 2: so you know, when you're talking about all of this stuff,
Speaker 2: it makes a lot more sense, like, oh, that's why
Speaker 2: they don't want to bring that up.
Speaker 4: Let's not bring that up.
Speaker 1: Well, Heidi, what you're describing to me, I kind of
Speaker 1: view as these same families within the society feuding amongst
Speaker 1: themselves prior to the Aaron Burr assassination of Alexander Hamilt's
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, this is a this
Speaker 1: is a long you know what I'm saying, These are
Speaker 1: long standing family feuds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's wild and they you know, obviously there's some of
Speaker 1: the anti Masonic stuff caused the Mormonisms to go underground,
Speaker 1: where their their practices to go underground to create Mormonism.
Speaker 1: I do think that was part of it.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, you guys do know he married we'll spiritually
Speaker 2: married Morgan's widow.
Speaker 1: That's what I was. I'm glad you said that that's
Speaker 1: what I was going to bring up next marriage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, well.
Speaker 1: Captain William Morgan. He would have been a member of
Speaker 1: the New York chapter of the Society of Cincinnati. So
Speaker 1: once again we're talking society business, not just freemasonry, although
Speaker 1: that is what he got. He got in trouble for
Speaker 1: right though, printing of the phil sonic stuff.
Speaker 2: Not just plural marriage polyandre. He was hitting up other
Speaker 2: people's wives. They were already married.
Speaker 1: So so what's the official stands from from the from
Speaker 1: the mother ship in Salt Lake City today, digjo, So Smith,
Speaker 1: you have more than one? They say, yes, he did, right,
Speaker 1: But it was like he needed to God said so right.
Speaker 2: Until I was fifteen, he never did it. He never did.
Speaker 2: He never did that.
Speaker 1: They chase their right.
Speaker 2: I was like, what the hell is happening? And where
Speaker 2: did this hat come from? I thought South Park was
Speaker 2: a lie, and then that's what happened to me.
Speaker 4: They told me not to watch that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so they officially recognized Joseph had a some
Speaker 1: plural marriages, right and polyandre. Yes he was. They don't
Speaker 1: go into they don't. They don't go into the number,
Speaker 1: do they. There's not they don't quantify this, do they?
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't think they want to play with that. No, right, No,
Speaker 2: I think they just you know, they hit it forever.
Speaker 1: I mean, and officially, he's got no extra kids outside
Speaker 1: of his his officially you know, official children within the marriage, right,
Speaker 1: No bastard children.
Speaker 2: Well, let's remember about who takes the blood samples. Right,
Speaker 2: let's remember Oh wait, ancestry right where?
Speaker 3: Who?
Speaker 2: Oh they don't own that. But where do they get
Speaker 2: their information? FamilySearch dot org? And how many labs does
Speaker 2: the LDS church own? Almost all of them?
Speaker 4: So good luck.
Speaker 1: They don't know anymore. But they definitely had an interested
Speaker 1: in the past.
Speaker 4: He's the rootie.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just saw that. I was like, oh, whoa,
Speaker 5: I haven't seen him in a while. I just show
Speaker 5: that down there.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked to him today. I popped in on
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 1: Oh, man, bastard kids. There you go. See. Yep, he
Speaker 1: was on the had to have a lot of bastard kids.
Speaker 1: Can we agree on this, right? Like this dude like
Speaker 1: seventy wives. There's no way he's not popping out extra kids.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so funny. He missed our gay talk already.
Speaker 2: He missed it. Yeah, yeah, well, you have to do
Speaker 2: those things because if you don't, you can't hold it
Speaker 2: over anyone's head.
Speaker 1: Right. So it's my understanding that even though this was
Speaker 1: a common practice of polygamy there, right, it was on
Speaker 1: amongst the upper echelon, right, even going into Navu. So
Speaker 1: from from uh from Batavia there near the hill Kamora,
Speaker 1: to Kirtland to Independence, Missouri, to Nave, Illinois, now Villa, Illinois.
Speaker 1: Apparently it is when shit came, shit came to the
Speaker 1: surface that Joseph was begging everybody's wife. But that was
Speaker 1: because the mayor of he kicked out the mayor of Navo.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how boy's name, but he kicked out
Speaker 1: old boy and the boys like, well, that's it. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna tell everybody, we've just been even begging everybody's wife.
Speaker 1: And he was doing it with him, right, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know at the same time, but you know
Speaker 1: it was practicing. He was he was the general of
Speaker 1: the militia, right, and the mayor of Navu, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was him Joseph and like you know, some others.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the whole town, right, It wasn't a
Speaker 1: widespread practice.
Speaker 4: And and why would we even do that? Right, Like Nick,
Speaker 4: why would we even do that?
Speaker 2: But but then you bring the magic into it, and
Speaker 2: then you're like sex magic right right, right, right.
Speaker 1: Exactly, And I think bring him young, try to kind
Speaker 1: of whitewash all the sex magic aspects of it and
Speaker 1: try to make it a little bit more socialized with
Speaker 1: the plural marriages.
Speaker 2: Right, let me explain about Brigham. He was an underperformer.
Speaker 2: Brigham Young had fifty five wives and fifty seven children.
Speaker 2: That is not going forth and pro creating Brigham. That
Speaker 2: has hit it and quit it town.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is yeah, he should have had like two
Speaker 3: hundred kids in their eyes.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, Okay, so my brother in law four Super
Speaker 1: Bowls and some MVPs. I mean that dude, that dude
Speaker 1: can throw football. I mean he's he's got some talented offspring.
Speaker 2: My my brother in law is Warren Jeff's nephew, and
Speaker 2: he grew up in a family with three. He is
Speaker 2: Warren Jeff's nephew. My brother in law is Warren jesfs
Speaker 2: nephew and nikes. So yeah, so but he's a nice guy.
Speaker 2: He's out, he's out clearly, but he grew up with
Speaker 2: three moms over thirty kids, just those three moms.
Speaker 4: So you're not performing Brigham like.
Speaker 1: Right, but he made more of a widespread practice when
Speaker 1: Brigham's version of Mormon. So I view these things as
Speaker 1: Joseph Smith's version. Then you got Brigham Young's version, which
Speaker 1: became the major version. Right my back? Does that cut
Speaker 1: out of my back?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: You never went anyway. You're here here just like the
Speaker 3: last time.
Speaker 1: Is this for life?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean this is this for life with these
Speaker 1: Mormons procreating like fucking rabbits. So it seems like the
Speaker 1: Brigham Young version he made the the you know, more
Speaker 1: of the God made us all do this plagamy stuff
Speaker 1: right where j just was like, we're doing this inner
Speaker 1: circle sex magic stuff. We're gonna keep it real tight.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was by the tip of a sword. Boy,
Speaker 2: where have I heard that before? Hmm?
Speaker 4: Let me ask John D. Wait, what did John D say?
Speaker 2: If anybody talks to you about talking to angels and
Speaker 2: goes after your wife, you should be afraid. Quote from that's.
Speaker 1: A good point, solid solid advice. I the solid advice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. They had to take this underground.
Speaker 1: When when when Joseph Smith gets gets marked there in
Speaker 1: the car of the Illinois in prison, you know. And
Speaker 1: this is how Mormon I am. I've been to that
Speaker 1: place more than once. I've been my former mentor in
Speaker 1: the Mormon Church. He was actually the whatever, the district
Speaker 1: manager for the Hillcamora. I don't know what, I forget
Speaker 1: the names of these these positions. Yeah, regional director if
Speaker 1: you will. So I've been to these places more than once.
Speaker 1: You know, that's how Mormon I used to be. But yes,
Speaker 1: the uh now, h will andoy's an experience. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a real it's a real interesting experience.
Speaker 1: I do recommend going to Yeah, yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting you know, they've captain at Waysburg like
Speaker 1: you know, kind of colonial times, right, mm hmm yep.
Speaker 1: When when he gets marked there and the rest of
Speaker 1: his family, you know, who didn't get marked with him
Speaker 1: gets marked Shirley Letter, after his brother, his other brother,
Speaker 1: his nephew, et cetera. You know, there's a real real
Speaker 1: diversion with the church. Obviously, his one son, his other
Speaker 1: son takes takes the church. Joseph Smith, the third right,
Speaker 1: he takes the church. They become the Reorganized Church. But
Speaker 1: he was all but folded today, I believe, right.
Speaker 2: It is well, and then nobody ever talks about what
Speaker 2: happened to the youngest son, which is you know what
Speaker 2: happened to the youngest son?
Speaker 4: Right, Anyway, it's sad he ends up in.
Speaker 1: What Happened to the Youngest Son.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he ends up institutionalized for most of his life.
Speaker 2: They basically make him. Yeah, it's pretty sad. Actually they
Speaker 2: gave the Kennedy experience, right with the Kennedy and he was.
Speaker 4: He was gay, I guess, and so it was a
Speaker 4: whole thing. It was sad. It was They actually called
Speaker 4: him like the sacrifice, like the sacrificial one.
Speaker 1: Makes you wonder if he wasn't daddled as a child
Speaker 1: in some sort of weird sex magic ritual. Right, well, I.
Speaker 2: Think he might have escaped it, but only because he
Speaker 2: was born after after they were gone. So Emma had
Speaker 2: took an off and she was pregnant and they were
Speaker 2: already going to Utah.
Speaker 4: Uh So yeah, it was sad, sad, So that sad.
Speaker 1: So she went to Utah and her son went to Missouri. Huh.
Speaker 2: And so yeah it gets weird, yep. And then you know,
Speaker 2: the whole way that they took over, you know, the
Speaker 2: whole way Brigham got in.
Speaker 4: Did you hear that story?
Speaker 1: Uh no, please tell me, Okay, I don't recall at
Speaker 1: least you know, how did everybody young father wanted yeah championship.
Speaker 2: Well, it was because somebody had a bad day and
Speaker 2: everybody thought it would be rigged in.
Speaker 4: And he kind of was sick that day, and so
Speaker 4: he didn't perform well.
Speaker 2: I guess they had like a little speech, you know,
Speaker 2: and they got up there and did their speech, and
Speaker 2: he didn't do well, but Brigham did extra well.
Speaker 4: But this is weird.
Speaker 2: I dare wonder if if the brothers of Brigham helped
Speaker 2: him out in some ways this day, because they made
Speaker 2: it appear as if Joseph was speaking, and there were
Speaker 2: people in the crowd that completely attested that they saw
Speaker 2: Joseph Smith through Brigham Young that day and that was
Speaker 2: why they knew.
Speaker 1: So, oh, that's a great storyline. I love their necromancy,
Speaker 1: right of course.
Speaker 2: You gotta remember, they love that stuff even they even
Speaker 2: heard it, They even heard the voice. So the one
Speaker 2: thing with Lucy in her book, she kind of did
Speaker 2: a sneaky little thing there with this whole doctor Nathan
Speaker 2: and you know Dartmouth, Well, she just says little things.
Speaker 2: She just says little things like you know. And then
Speaker 2: Hiram went to a school and doctor Nathan came, but
Speaker 2: she forgot his last name even though it's her last name,
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. And she's just playing little game
Speaker 2: with Brigham Young, like pay me some money, bitch, or
Speaker 2: I'm going to burn your ass down, and that's what
Speaker 2: they say it was. And she got her money and
Speaker 2: he helped support her, and she deserved it because let's admit,
Speaker 2: she lost almost half her kids and like her family
Speaker 2: and the brothers and the you know uncles and her.
Speaker 4: Husband, and yeah, I'd be pissed too, I get it.
Speaker 4: A girl charity was there.
Speaker 1: If you bring up a lot of good points regarding
Speaker 1: the turmoil of the immediate aftermath of Joseph Smith getting Mrked.
Speaker 1: You know, he went from gonna he went from telling
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna be president running the biggest army outside of
Speaker 1: the US Army to you know, being friends with Abraham Lincoln,
Speaker 1: for example. I think that's often overlooked. I suspect that
Speaker 1: Society of Cincinnati relationship, you know, for example, Abraham Lincoln's
Speaker 1: law partner represented Joseph Smith in at least one court case,
Speaker 1: and it seems like at least one day Abraham Lincoln
Speaker 1: came to watch that trial at least one day.
Speaker 4: Mmm. Very interesting.
Speaker 1: So he had some he had some good friends there
Speaker 1: networked in. But again Lincoln being society Cincinnati as well
Speaker 1: from his grandfather also named Abe Lincoln. He was a
Speaker 1: member of the Virginia Chapter captain in the Army of
Speaker 1: Washington's Army. But so during this turmoil, we had, you know,
Speaker 1: numerous factions, right, this is one of my favor everts.
Speaker 1: The string guites you familiar?
Speaker 4: Oh yes, oh yes, I'm getting ready to do a
Speaker 4: show about this. Not my show, yeah, not mine. I'm
Speaker 4: having somebody from there from the area.
Speaker 1: Come on. What's your What's what's what are some of
Speaker 1: your favorite aspects of the strain guide factions.
Speaker 2: That I have not I've not deep dove this. I
Speaker 2: just know the basics because he asked me not to
Speaker 2: do that. So he wants to come on and present,
Speaker 2: so I.
Speaker 1: Have to totally my favorite parts? Is this too decided?
Speaker 1: You know, I watched Joseph do it. I'll get to
Speaker 1: do the same thing. So he went up to Wisconsin
Speaker 1: from from Nauvoo there and he started he found himself
Speaker 1: a mound up there in Wisconsin, claimed to have found
Speaker 1: it rich in Wisconsin, well, some sketchy mount sketchy mount,
Speaker 1: he claim. He claims to have found his own version
Speaker 1: of the of the Golden Tablets there, uh in uh
Speaker 1: in a mound there, had his own little angel experience
Speaker 1: with Maron I, and started the strain Guide faction, which
Speaker 1: still exists there today. And there's like a one hundred people.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that's it too bad.
Speaker 1: But he literally followed the same playbook right as Joseph Smith.
Speaker 1: And you know it's like, hey, I got I got
Speaker 1: some some golden plates here.
Speaker 4: You want to do you want to hear from another one?
Speaker 4: I got an angel?
Speaker 1: You know, I got an angel.
Speaker 2: Let's talk some Let's talk some angel stuff people, people.
Speaker 2: There's lots of people talking to spirits, just as Crowley.
Speaker 3: It is interesting a lot of like, oh well, I
Speaker 3: mean going back to angels. I mean, isn't that how?
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 5: Even Islam came about all of them, all of them.
Speaker 5: I mean many things go back to like receiving a
Speaker 5: message from some time that jo.
Speaker 4: Yep, all of them, all.
Speaker 2: Of them so.
Speaker 1: Much like go ahead, go ahead, idie.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, one of my favorite comparisons is
Speaker 2: to say, okay, you know, we start with Don John
Speaker 2: d and he's talking to angels. He thinks it's a
Speaker 2: god thing. And then they're writing things down and then
Speaker 2: it push comes to shove them. They're like sex time,
Speaker 2: sex magic time. And then that's when every one of
Speaker 2: them are like uh oh, and then they do it,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's with all of them, it's it's
Speaker 2: you know, Crowley, what does he do? Same thing.
Speaker 4: He's on his honeymoon.
Speaker 2: There was already sexual magic happening there. I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: some freaky stuff. And he didn't care if it looked
Speaker 2: like an alien because guess why, he wasn't afraid so.
Speaker 4: To talk about freaking like an alien.
Speaker 2: Same thought, yes, and so you know it is what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so yeah, well and on that now with
Speaker 1: the strang guys here, one of the other my other
Speaker 1: fair parts is they follow the Mothership in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: eight and started letting some black folks and join the church.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of them speaking of the white
Speaker 1: nationalists bend of the Mormons and even into the even
Speaker 1: in their offshoot factions that don't comprise a very large population,
Speaker 1: they're still doing that same same nonsense, right, and they're
Speaker 1: still falling in on the same same letter of the
Speaker 1: Mothership essentially.
Speaker 2: And all of this part right, all this old stuff
Speaker 2: about the church, all this is like more magical. But
Speaker 2: then later it becomes a corporation and now they're just
Speaker 2: part of the New World Order and they're all hooked together, period,
Speaker 2: all of them, Like that's why you know, it's just
Speaker 2: a big incorporation now, and they all hail to the
Speaker 2: beast so so period.
Speaker 1: So when it came down to this, all this magic
Speaker 1: stuff in this So that was the sixties, that one
Speaker 1: book with the tainers and folks, that was kind of
Speaker 1: the first anti Mormon book published. Really these folks kind
Speaker 1: of mentioned the magic stuff. But then then the eighties
Speaker 1: come about with Mark Hoffman and there was the Salamander letters.
Speaker 4: Right, Oh, yes, the Salamander letters. I think he was
Speaker 4: set up man, Like.
Speaker 1: I've said, what did the Salamander letter? Mark Faufman, who
Speaker 1: was later convicted of a large scale forgery of a
Speaker 1: lot of old documents that he was forging and selling
Speaker 1: and whatnot. Pretty lucrative effort which he was definitely part
Speaker 1: of a network. I agree he was the fall guy
Speaker 1: and for sure, for sure, But what did this Salamander
Speaker 1: letter allegedly assert regarding Mormon history? As we were describing
Speaker 1: the dbous timeline and nature of Mormons there neckromancy may
Speaker 1: have been started as early as eighteen twenty four, according
Speaker 1: to Joseph's cousin, Major Elias Buel. You know, what are
Speaker 1: we talking here? As far as this magic though, this,
Speaker 1: this is what this letter said, right, was basically an
Speaker 1: eyewitness to this Holy Guardian angel event you were describing
Speaker 1: at the Hill Kamora cr K eighteen twenty you know,
Speaker 1: three to eighteen twenty seven, allegedly. But it wasn't an
Speaker 1: angel though, right this, According to this business, it was
Speaker 1: magic stuff and lizard stuff. Right.
Speaker 4: Well, here's the here's the thing.
Speaker 2: What we know. You know, I think the church pregamed this, honestly,
Speaker 2: And I think Hoffman was so wrapped up in what
Speaker 2: he was getting from the church because he was so
Speaker 2: involved with like, oh, give me more cool books, give.
Speaker 4: Me more cool parchments. He was really into all that,
Speaker 4: and he would trade fake things for real things. And
Speaker 4: we know that or get money.
Speaker 2: But then here's the situation is I know, oh, for
Speaker 2: a fact, there is a true story about Joseph Smith
Speaker 2: and a toad, and that is because of his treasure
Speaker 2: digging court case where you could go look up the
Speaker 2: affid davit for the Chase Chase Willard Chase talks about this.
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of neighbors that went in and talked
Speaker 2: about this, and these are affid davits. This isn't hearsay.
Speaker 2: This is something that really was documented that this happened.
Speaker 2: And so a toad is very witch is familiar. That
Speaker 2: is a more dark side of magic, whereas a salamander.
Speaker 2: The salamander is more it's not forged by the fire.
Speaker 2: We're talking about Rosicrucianism. We're talking about you know, it's
Speaker 2: a better thing. And I think they basically had Mark
Speaker 2: Hoffman rearrange that they put it out because I've never
Speaker 2: seen the church jump on board on something so fast.
Speaker 2: They put it in their enzyme, they distribute it to
Speaker 2: their members, they put that.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. They were talking about
Speaker 1: this from the pulpit right general conference, right, They were like,
Speaker 1: this is legitimate, folks, let's take it down to not
Speaker 1: this is legitimate, this is real.
Speaker 2: Don't be doubting the salamander. And everyone that was magical
Speaker 2: in that room knew what that meant at that time,
Speaker 2: because the salamander is something totally different and represents something
Speaker 2: completely different. And so I think they knew. I think
Speaker 2: they pulled one on old Mark.
Speaker 4: And this is why when Mark.
Speaker 1: Went to you make you make a strong argument. So
Speaker 1: this this letter, the contents of it, at least for
Speaker 1: folks of the interwebs, I'm familiar with it. Yes, the
Speaker 1: contents of the letter implied a magical aspect of Smith's life,
Speaker 1: a controversial subject debated amongst scholars of the Latter Day
Speaker 1: Saying history, the Salamander letter was supposedly written by Martin
Speaker 1: Harris and W. W. Phelps, an early convert in the
Speaker 1: Latter Day Save movement. Now, Martin Harris was allegedly one
Speaker 1: of the apostles right who witnessed the the actual Golden plates,
Speaker 1: right and fundation, one of the three witnesses. Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he lost his farm for it and his wife.
Speaker 1: So this letter is allegedly written by him, though, right,
Speaker 1: saying this is what he'd actually witnessed the set of
Speaker 1: what the church says he witnesses right in that three
Speaker 1: witness situation, this letter actually says what he actually witnesses
Speaker 1: that correct. Yes, if it works to be right, that's
Speaker 1: what be right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So and then I do think what they did to
Speaker 2: him is they had him fix quote unquote fix this
Speaker 2: for them, because this is going to lead to the
Speaker 2: dark history that they've tried to cover up. That they
Speaker 2: are statesmen from Massachusetts, from Topsfield, Massachusetts, involved in the Inquisition,
Speaker 2: Captain Samuel Smith, and you cannot find that in his
Speaker 2: bloodline unless you trace up through Jesse period. And so
Speaker 2: they want to get away from all that ugliness. And
Speaker 2: I think this was going to help them, But I
Speaker 2: also think they knew that he was screwing them, like
Speaker 2: as far as money deals and different things. Now they'll
Speaker 2: say they never had anything to do with this because
Speaker 2: they'll say that it was a private bishop that purchased
Speaker 2: but the church is known for doing this. They gave
Speaker 2: the money to the bishop, the bishop purchased it on
Speaker 2: his own, blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: It's like a whole thing.
Speaker 2: So you know, with Mark, the interesting part is he's
Speaker 2: singing like a canary after he went to prison, and
Speaker 2: then one day he stopped singing.
Speaker 4: Want to know why?
Speaker 2: Because he was in a maximum security area, clearly because
Speaker 2: he was accused of murder, and he laid on the
Speaker 2: floor because supposedly he tried to Killery himself, and he
Speaker 2: took a bunch of medicine that supposedly he had saved up,
Speaker 2: and he laid there for twelve hours. The only problem
Speaker 2: with that is you're in maximum security and they do
Speaker 2: rounds and they check on you, and they have to
Speaker 2: document and all these things. It's a prison, it's not
Speaker 2: a camp. And so he's laying on the cold floor forever.
Speaker 2: And the only thing that happened to poor Mark afterward
Speaker 2: was that his right hand was completely neurologically damaged and
Speaker 2: he will never forge again.
Speaker 1: You tell me, Yeah, that's convenient, right, So, I mean
Speaker 1: the whole offense tale. I think you're pointing out some
Speaker 1: great points. We don't know the whole story. And there
Speaker 1: was a lot of folks that he was certainly the
Speaker 1: patsy for but he got blamed, never saw for bombings, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He never talked again ever, which is why we got
Speaker 2: the Laffardy story. Because the Lafferties are a big part
Speaker 2: of what happened later with changing the temple ceremony. But
Speaker 2: the Lafferties were arrested, And the whole reason why we
Speaker 2: have that story is because they went, Hey, you.
Speaker 4: Want to talk to some Mormons, we'll go.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's talk and Mormon stuff. So one
Speaker 1: of the things I find most interesting those Tener folks
Speaker 1: I was talking about, Heidie. They came out against the
Speaker 1: Salamander Letter. The folks who published this, they were the
Speaker 1: they were the essentially the controlled opposition of the Mothership,
Speaker 1: writing this anti Mormon book in the sixties. Come the eighties,
Speaker 1: they're like, wait a second, we're siding with the Mothership.
Speaker 1: We think this is fake. You know, when it came
Speaker 1: to that point, they were out. They were out against
Speaker 1: the whole time. But eventually the church, you know when
Speaker 1: when they when they declared it a forgery, you know,
Speaker 1: it came about the same way that they're agreeing with
Speaker 1: the Tanners. I mean, wait a second, that doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense.
Speaker 4: Right, Why would they agree with Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Why wouldn't the Tanners be on board for all
Speaker 1: this stuff? This is they already talk about the ceremonial
Speaker 1: magic stuff, right, so I guess exactly this is where
Speaker 1: I got the ideas of that manuscript from Solomon Spaulding
Speaker 1: was from this book in eighteen thirty four called Mormonism Unveiled, right.
Speaker 1: And it also apparently, as you were saying, this is
Speaker 1: what the salamander letters allude to, this elludes this you know,
Speaker 1: a toad, as you were saying, I'm just sorry a
Speaker 1: toad being involved, right, whereas you said, like.
Speaker 4: A toad turned into a man and punched in.
Speaker 1: Yes, And as you were saying, they rolled it out
Speaker 1: of much church, they churched it up, they churched it
Speaker 1: up salt like city fashion and called it a salamander. Right, Yes, Well,
Speaker 1: because back is eighteen four, right, they're talking about this
Speaker 1: stuff in books, right, So people knew about this shit.
Speaker 2: Yep, some people, but remember how many you know didn't
Speaker 2: want to look at anti more in propaganda, I mean,
Speaker 2: so they could cover it up pretty easy.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's what I was getting a look at
Speaker 1: the power of this organization dating back to eighteen thirty four.
Speaker 1: And most folks have never heard of this book. So
Speaker 1: what is this toad punching stuff? Nick? What's that about?
Speaker 1: What's toad fighting about? What does that mean magically speaking?
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not kung fu fighting.
Speaker 3: I mean this is where teenage munitas of turtles came from.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, we get into that weird we get into
Speaker 4: that weird frog think cat.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think there's a lot I think frogs though,
Speaker 5: I mean old joking you side, I do you think
Speaker 5: that can get into some deep symbolism for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1: And it's return of the frogs gay apparently and not
Speaker 1: the gay Mormon family either.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, the dark well, and it's darker like if
Speaker 2: you really know about magic, they would know that the.
Speaker 4: Darker parts are toad.
Speaker 2: Cat, black cat, toad like think of Harry Potter. What
Speaker 2: did they say they could bring, right, Like a rat,
Speaker 2: a toad, or a cat. That's your three options, right
Speaker 2: and an owl? And so it makes sense. And then
Speaker 2: when you're talking about like.
Speaker 1: A much more gentler option, they're friendly option.
Speaker 2: Option, right, Well, they're a Rosicrucian tradition that they're they're
Speaker 2: really symbolic for Rosicrucianism.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yep, they talked. The lizards were talking here, wizards, salamander, Salamander's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to take because of fire.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was just going to say that because of
Speaker 5: the fire symbol, I could see Salomon the making alchemy.
Speaker 2: Yep, that they can withstand, they can withstand the flame,
Speaker 2: and they are more pure, and it's it's it's not
Speaker 2: like witches. And remember what we're trying to stay away from, right,
Speaker 2: Captain Samuel Smith, the witch burner. I think that's what
Speaker 2: they were worried about.
Speaker 1: So they can they can grow their tails back to
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's some sort of magic that.
Speaker 2: Can regenerate that, right with this regeneration, right, absolutely, they
Speaker 2: know what they're doing. They are sending messages all the
Speaker 2: time magically, like have you seen their Hosanna handkerchief thing, Nick?
Speaker 2: You seeing this shit? No? Oh, the handkerchief wave. They
Speaker 2: have a nod to magic. Still, they just don't shove
Speaker 2: it out there for the goyam. They took it underground,
Speaker 2: and they they have these secret societies within the secret
Speaker 2: societies within the secret societies like it's it's it's only
Speaker 2: for the elite. Now, that's that's just how it is.
Speaker 2: I think one hundred percent they still practice this stuff.
Speaker 2: Why the hell do you think that the profit's a
Speaker 2: hundred he's a hundred.
Speaker 1: Right, Like he's got that Mormon magic. I think that
Speaker 1: same Mormon magic that was used to fix Elon's hairline.
Speaker 4: I mean that's beyond that's beyond magic.
Speaker 3: O Moman magic.
Speaker 4: Know, well, maybe maybe it was, yeah, pens Dutch magic.
Speaker 4: There is a whole for the people talking about the handkerchief.
Speaker 2: Go look at their It's called the Hosanna wave and
Speaker 2: they do it and they shake the all of them
Speaker 2: all culty at the same time.
Speaker 4: Hosanna Hosanna.
Speaker 1: Thing.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it's douggie.
Speaker 1: I've heard of the thuggy Colton cali w they do
Speaker 1: the handkerchief stuff.
Speaker 4: It's weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think it sounds like Pittsburgh Steelers terrible
Speaker 1: tale nonsense.
Speaker 4: If you asked me, well, and you know, you can
Speaker 4: put magic into objects.
Speaker 2: It's a talisman, like, let's be real.
Speaker 3: They're just hiding everything.
Speaker 4: They're hiding everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 4: Well, that's my opinion.
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks he was all crazier, he just stole it
Speaker 2: from the one guy or whatever. But I for me,
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I think there has to be more
Speaker 2: to it. And the funniest part is is what's his name,
Speaker 2: The West Memphis three guy. He has a whole episode
Speaker 2: on Joseph Smith and and he's like Joseph Smith's a badass,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my gosh. When I seen that,
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, that's weird. That got weird.
Speaker 3: Oh was he giving him props to being a magician?
Speaker 3: Probably was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cooley talks about him being a moonchild, and you know,
Speaker 2: like all this stuff, he gives nods and he even
Speaker 2: says at the bottom people say that really wasn't about him.
Speaker 2: I'm like it was.
Speaker 3: I've even noticed too. It would makes sense, is that.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 5: I think Echoes a while ago was like pushing out
Speaker 5: T shirts. I had a lot of He's got angel
Speaker 5: sigils on them that were from Planetary Squares and oh no,
Speaker 5: I know, yeah, I know. He's definitely definitely knows what
Speaker 5: the he's talking about. In my opinion, I think he understands.
Speaker 5: But I do know, like he's beaking into the planet
Speaker 5: Edy Squaz himself, and so was Joseph Smith, so maybe
Speaker 5: he you know, he was so.
Speaker 2: He was like on the I watched the whole damn thing,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm going to become a mormine just
Speaker 2: so I can go in there temple.
Speaker 4: This is awesome. I'm like, oh my gosh, they're gonna
Speaker 4: let Damien Les in there.
Speaker 1: Okay, they probably will. Nothing like a convicted child child
Speaker 1: murdering mind.
Speaker 3: He said sorry, I wouldn't have done it. He probably
Speaker 3: will let him in there.
Speaker 2: I'm serious. If he said sorry, yeah, whatever, it's weird.
Speaker 1: Well I think that's I think that's a good note
Speaker 1: to end it here. Damien Echles convicted child daddling, kid murderer,
Speaker 1: ritualistic human sacrifice situation. Yeah, how gott Jesspah Smith.
Speaker 2: Sorry that was me.
Speaker 4: I'm warped.
Speaker 1: I had Heidi, I had great conversation. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: joined us here for Fridays.
Speaker 2: No, I think this is amazing. I think you hit
Speaker 2: on a really big connection with this society because it
Speaker 2: makes more sense of I could never I got just
Speaker 2: certain point and then I'm like, okay, it falls apart,
Speaker 2: like why but why why are these people here? Right?
Speaker 4: Why is this these rich people or these royal people
Speaker 4: or these whatever. I couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2: But if they're all in secret society together, this makes
Speaker 2: complete sense. So I absolutely appreciate that it's it fills
Speaker 2: a big hole. And you know, I think, like you know,
Speaker 2: they're globalists now they don't hide it. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've seen the plans for the new temple on closing,
Speaker 2: they have a United Nations flag display of all the flags,
Speaker 2: and they have it shaped like a big keyhole like.
Speaker 4: The like the Vatican. Looks just like the Vatican, and
Speaker 4: I have been.
Speaker 2: Sayings no comparison, and I'm telling you, guys, I keep
Speaker 2: saying that the Mormons have a key and it's not
Speaker 2: the priesthood keys. So for that, I am definitely going
Speaker 2: to try to keep diving deep into all that. I'm
Speaker 2: sure you guys will help me. And this has been amazing,
Speaker 2: Like every time we chat and then, I've had a
Speaker 2: great time. So thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 1: For sure. Absolutely looking forward to future more Mormon conversation.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend folks go check out the series we
Speaker 1: did on the cult Rejects recently with Mormon business.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so much fun. Thanks again, Nick, sir.
Speaker 1: Great Great Fridays is always what they closing words for
Speaker 1: the folks the interwebs. What's going on with you cal rejects? Perhaps?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I know what I was actually looking at stuff.
Speaker 5: We got Mormon Mafia Part three actually dropping tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I didn't, I didn't drop it, okay, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think we did.
Speaker 5: It like last Saturday, so I had it drop it
Speaker 5: Sday whatever. Yeah, I had to drop it this week. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so we got that coming out tomorrow, so everybody can
Speaker 5: check that out. Magic Park two. Yeah, yeah, this is
Speaker 5: a really good episode too. It's got a lot of
Speaker 5: I mean they all were, but this week this one
Speaker 5: has a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: In it in my opinion. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so definitely check that out. And I see
Speaker 5: Giovanni Serucci in here. Holy shit, I haven't seen him
Speaker 5: in a minute.
Speaker 4: So glad you came to see Johnny past Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, guys, yeah, you got to hit me up. Man.
Speaker 2: There it is, there, it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been on the show before actually years ago,
Speaker 3: years ago.
Speaker 4: Thank you for coming everybody and watching us.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, and we'll definitely be doing more Mormon
Speaker 1: stuff soon, I guess HEII. We got a show of
Speaker 1: the Mormon Process stuff coming out soon.
Speaker 2: Right. Oh yes, the Sunday actually, so it's funny you're
Speaker 2: doing Saturday, I'm doing Sunday.
Speaker 4: So we're all over the place.
Speaker 2: Rejects gone wildne super wild recently Instanian cargo cults with
Speaker 2: the Process stuff.
Speaker 1: When you're talking about the globalist it makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense because, you know, it makes a lot of
Speaker 1: sense to the discussion we have with the Mormons in
Speaker 1: the Process and where they're located today, headquartered out of
Speaker 1: southern Utah, is because a lot of the early process
Speaker 1: OG members and later members or Society Cincinnati families as
Speaker 1: well so well, and it seems to be the connecting principles.
Speaker 4: I think Nick said something or maybe it was you
Speaker 4: on our last one about Saint George. Was it Nick
Speaker 4: or was it you?
Speaker 2: But there's a Saint George Utah, and Saint George was
Speaker 2: a very prominent member of the church.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of funny. Yeah, And this element that
Speaker 1: I then when I talk about these feuding factions within
Speaker 1: the Society of Cincinnati, one side is the Anglo interest
Speaker 1: you know, globalist faction. So we're describing as these globalist
Speaker 1: interests you're talking about with the Mormons. Makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense to me regarding these same groups we're talking about,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they're all well, yeah, they're coming together
Speaker 1: like vultron ancient alien cargo cult style. But you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: they definitely know each other. These folks definitely know each.
Speaker 4: Other, right, Oh yeah, they're all putting their cards on
Speaker 4: We don't know each other, We don't know each other exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, I knew they were putting their cards on the
Speaker 2: table when they let them build down the street from
Speaker 2: the Vatican, let's be honest, And and it was so quiet,
Speaker 2: and the and the.
Speaker 1: Process which is Worldwide Headquarters Music, I'm sorry, Worldwide Museum
Speaker 1: is right down the street there in room. So these
Speaker 1: people all maybe meet for college, maybe maybe they meet
Speaker 1: for lattes down there near Saint Peter's Square. Nick thing
Speaker 1: is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, he's been there.
Speaker 1: He went there last year, right, I.
Speaker 4: Went the year before.
Speaker 1: Yep, Yeah, you've been there too. I'd love to go.
Speaker 1: I love to go check out the vaticaning room. Not
Speaker 1: not necessarily what I would try to go in the
Speaker 1: Process museum. I'm sure they would't let me in there,
Speaker 1: but you know, I try to go in there.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you told me that. After I had left it.
Speaker 3: I was like, I think you texted me, so.
Speaker 1: I sent your message. I was like, yeah, dude, You're
Speaker 1: like oh I just left room.
Speaker 5: Yes, I was, like I even said, I definitely would
Speaker 5: have went because I did actually that I try, right,
Speaker 5: I mean I wish I had more time there, and
Speaker 5: that's I mean I did need more time, but I
Speaker 5: did have time to where I could have made that happen,
Speaker 5: you know for sure.
Speaker 4: So much fun.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, thank you both. Awesome conversation always always
Speaker 1: is great with the we got a full Occult Rejects
Speaker 1: roundtable tonight since Siety's a recent edition to reject, so
Speaker 1: we went full one of col Rejects tonight.
Speaker 4: All right, let's go, all right,