WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.960 Do you know what real power is? It's knowing you're 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.719 on the same rate for energy all day, every day 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.640 with a smart all day plan from board Gosh Energy, 4 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:11.000 save up to eight hundred and eighty euro on dual 5 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.519 fuel plus get a two hundred and thirty five You're 6 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.440 a welcome bonus switch today at Boardgosh Energy dot ie 7 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.519 Board Gosh Energy. Know your power. 8 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:22.719 Estimation Anuel Biller twenty six hundred and twenty nine. Your 9 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:25.239 new customers only thirst of percentis Kentov Smart all day 10 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:28.280 electricity unirates in twenty nine percent of gas. See pocosh 11 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:29.800 Energy dot E for full teesncies. 12 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:32.520 Oh hey, it's that thing in the backyard that you 13 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:34.600 meant to do something with but now it got rained 14 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.759 on it's ali ward. This is Ologies. This is a 15 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.880 show that is seldom about dogs, except for now. As 16 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:43.399 this is a bit of a companion episode to last 17 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:47.240 week's at No Sinology episode about dogs being your companions, 18 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:50.359 How Wolves Went to Dogs. So this week we are 19 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.520 following up with a wonderful new guest on how science 20 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:57.399 and conservation partners with dogs to do the work that 21 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:01.600 we cannot. So yes, dogs can not only smell narcotics 22 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:03.679 in a duffel bag. They can also let us know 23 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:05.920 how plants and animals are faring in the wild. So 24 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:08.239 this guest shot or shot by tagging me in some 25 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.120 excellent videos about her working conservation and look where we 26 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:13.040 are now we've got a whole episode. So as a 27 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.040 second year PhD student at Oregon State University, they travel 28 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:20.799 the world studying wolves on islands in Alaska, jungle cats 29 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:23.120 and so much more. And as a founder of a 30 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:27.840 nonprofit group called Canine Conservationists, this ologist coined the term 31 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:33.239 eco odorology, which can involve dogs detecting little plants, mold 32 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:39.400 invasive species. They detect bat and bird fatalities on wind farms, 33 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:45.120 invasive zebra muscles, carnivore populations, cheetahs, and Kenya bobcats in 34 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:48.760 the foothills, and they're trained to find so much more. 35 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:50.599 So this episode is a bit of a treat because 36 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:52.840 we recorded it in two parts. First, I headed to 37 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.439 a trailhead in LA's Griffith Park on an absolute scorcher 38 00:01:57.599 --> 00:01:58.040 so hot, and. 39 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:00.560 We're kind of moving back on down ably gonna let 40 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:02.920 him just keep this ball, uh huh, and let him 41 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:07.120 We call this quiet quitting where he can now go 42 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:08.879 hang out in the shade, do whatever he needs to do. 43 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.479 It was over one hundred degrees that day, and I 44 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:16.000 was able to meet conservation dog Barley as we sniffed 45 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.599 our way up dusty paths and hung out in a 46 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:22.960 cedar grove looking for evidence of coyotes and bobcats. I'm 47 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:26.000 also I'm panting here and there so was Barley, but 48 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.639 Barley didn't have a mic, and I'm sweating everywhere, But 49 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.840 we get into it. Then we followed up with a 50 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:35.159 traditional studio episode where I was as composed as a 51 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:37.719 person can be when they're talking about puppies. But first 52 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:39.719 quick thanks to patrons who make the show possible. You 53 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:41.360 can be one of them by hitting up Patreon dot 54 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:44.240 com slash ologies, where you can ask the ologist questions 55 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:47.080 before we record, and we chime in every week with 56 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:49.639 discussion threads over there. Also thank you to everyone in 57 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.479 ologies merch, which you can get from ologiesmarch dot com, 58 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.240 and to everyone who, for no dollars supports us just 59 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.800 by leaving reviews so more people can find the show. 60 00:02:58.159 --> 00:02:59.800 I read them all, and this week I will read 61 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.439 you one from someone who wrote I'm a Rhiannon too, 62 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.080 but I do not study deer. Thank you so much 63 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.919 for making this podcast when the world really needed it. Rhiannon, 64 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.039 What is Rihanna talking about? We're going to clear that 65 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.120 out late in the episode if you don't know, but 66 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.919 for now, sit and stay for an entire episode on 67 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.719 how dogs happily do our dirty work of sniffing for 68 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:23.439 a wild animal poop rescue, dogs do a dog jobs, 69 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:27.680 what rewards work when training dogs on a boat, dogs 70 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:30.719 in the jungle, wolves in the sea, Why noses are wet, 71 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.000 how garbage your sense of smell is, and how you 72 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:36.680 can get into this field and out into the field 73 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.680 working with your best bud with conservation biologist dog Trader, 74 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:44.520 knine advocate and eco odorologist Kayla Fratt. 75 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:07.120 Farley's in this chair right here, and Niffler is probably 76 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.360 going to settle a dog, but that's like just right 77 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:11.960 on the other side of the table. Sometimes they're like 78 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.280 under my feed. My name is Kayla Fratt. She her 79 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.160 and I am studying the movement and diet and a 80 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:22.519 bunch of other interesting questions of the Alexander Archipelago wolf 81 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:26.120 using scat collection through the detection dogs and then also 82 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.240 looking at some behavioral characteristics with the detection dogs as 83 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.439 far as like learning and efficacy and whatnot. 84 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.480 You're collecting data on the wolf in this series of islands, 85 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:40.279 but you're also collecting data on how the domesticated wolves 86 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.920 are learning that right, domesticated wolves being dogs. You can 87 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.639 see last week's at No Sinology episode which is all 88 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:48.040 about that. 89 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.360 Yeah, So as far as the wolves go, we're basically 90 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:55.439 working with poop. So the dogs will locate little piles 91 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.879 of poop or sometimes big piles of poop. We take 92 00:04:57.920 --> 00:04:59.560 those home, we take them back to the lab, and 93 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.360 then we do a process called DNA metabar coding where 94 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.360 we pull out all of the little strands of DNA 95 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:06.360 and we run those against a database and then figure 96 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.639 out what is in that fegal sample and kind of 97 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:09.399 aut what levels. 98 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:11.959 On a more detailed level, though, we. 99 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.199 Can also do a process called genotyping, which tells us 100 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.480 who the wolf is, you know, the individual ide their sex, 101 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.800 and over the course of years, then that can tell 102 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:21.920 us maybe how old that wolf is or if that 103 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.720 wolf is ultimately harvested, and then we can kind of 104 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.439 match that DNA back then we can know maybe how 105 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:30.160 old that wolf was at the time that it died. 106 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:32.160 And then on the dog side of things, I'm keeping 107 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.920 track of all sorts of things, as far as how 108 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:37.199 far the dog is away from the scat when it 109 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.839 first catches the odor, how the dog actually moves to 110 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.399 the scat, and whether or not the dog reports with 111 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.360 what we call a trained final response, which is that 112 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.680 they're supposed to lie down with that scat, or if 113 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.240 they kind of stand there and are a little bit 114 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:53.439 wishy washy about that identification, which sometimes can be fatigue 115 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:55.600 or vegetation related, like you can imagine if there's a 116 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.079 big pointy rock or like a thorny thing there, they 117 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.360 might choose not to lie down, But sometimes it also 118 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.399 can indicate that they're not as certain about that id. 119 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.920 So when a trained dog smells something that it's been 120 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.360 told to look for, it will lie down kind of 121 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.199 sphinx like with the specimen between his two front paws. 122 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:13.839 So he just laid down. 123 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:19.040 Ye I think we've got Oh are you serious not 124 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.800 to be working yet? Good? Wow? 125 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:26.399 A bobcat poop right there, just sitting on an embankment 126 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:29.480 sort of, and so he just got rewarded with the ball. 127 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.199 But in rocky terrain, of course they're gonna wing it, 128 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:36.879 and Kayla is not only studying the ecology of the 129 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.240 wild animals, but also how the canine eco odorologists are 130 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:42.000 doing their jobs. 131 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:43.959 And then I'm doing a lot of data collection on 132 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.120 the training side of things, so actually getting the dogs 133 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.639 ready and how we use them in the field and 134 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:51.399 how that affects the results long term. Lots of data, 135 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:52.759 lots of data. 136 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:57.399 So back to the undomesticated actual wolves. When you say harvested, 137 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:00.879 what exactly does that mean? Does that mean that they 138 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.879 are cold or does that mean that they've been poached? 139 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.480 Yeah, so these wolves are primarily in the Tongas National 140 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.680 Forest where there is hunting and trapping allowed for these wolves. 141 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:13.040 They're not in like a national park or somewhere where 142 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.319 they're protected. So yeah, currently mostly hunting and trapping and 143 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:16.920 it is legal. 144 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:19.319 It is permitted when you're coming up with a training 145 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.399 plan for the eco odorological aspects of it. Like, what 146 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.160 are we talking in terms of old factory acumen when 147 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.519 we're talking about dogs, what are they smelling that we aren't. 148 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.839 So many things. We are basically noseblind as far as 149 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.319 like mammals go. Compared to dogs. We are like you know, 150 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.120 the salamanders that can kind of sense light and dark. 151 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.480 I can't actually see that is like the difference in 152 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.519 degree between our old faction and their old faction. 153 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:52.240 Wow. 154 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.480 So as far as then training goes, what we generally 155 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.079 are starting with is getting a lot of samples of 156 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.120 our target odor. And the reason we want a lot 157 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.959 is because there can be variations in odor depending on 158 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:07.480 what that animal was eating, its reproductive status, if it's 159 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:10.920 particularly stressed that day, if it's on antibiotics, you know, 160 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.720 when we're talking zoo samples, that's a big factor. So 161 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.279 we want to make sure that we give the dogs 162 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:17.879 enough samples that they know that they're not just looking 163 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:22.439 for a lactating female brown bear who's eating salmon and 164 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.040 is on antibiotics, but we're actually looking for black bears 165 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.079 in general. Wow. And then we're doing all sorts of 166 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:31.279 careful handling with those samples to make sure that we 167 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:34.919 don't get those samples covered in our own sweat, the 168 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:38.159 scent of plastic if they've been stored in like plastic bags. 169 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:40.159 You know, if you put that scat sample down on 170 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.919 the surface and then pick it back up, is it 171 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.320 picking up odor from something like that? Are you storing 172 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:48.200 it in your freezer next to your other biological samples 173 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.399 within they're cross contaminating. And then then once we've got 174 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:53.600 all those samples and we've kind of got them prepared appropriately, 175 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.639 then we can start introducing the dogs to those. 176 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.960 Okay, but how long does that take? Like years? Or 177 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:02.360 are dogs sense of smell so good that they just 178 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.480 learn in an instant. 179 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.960 With the more experienced dogs that we have at this point, 180 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.679 that process often goes pretty quickly. For like just a 181 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.120 scat sample of a given species, that might just take 182 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:15.639 a couple weeks of training. But then when you're looking 183 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:21.080 at some ecoodology dogs, we'll work with things like pathogens 184 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:25.679 or fung gui or identifying specific insects nests. Once you 185 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.879 get into kind of those areas, then that training can 186 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:29.679 take quite a bit longer because it's what we would 187 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.120 call like a lower odor profile, so it's just less stinky, 188 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.279 or it's really really specific. If you're thinking about the difference, 189 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:37.600 you know, if I want a dog to find elk poop, 190 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.440 that's pretty straightforward. But if I want the dog to 191 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:43.200 tell me the difference between an elk with chronic wasting 192 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.840 disease and an elk without chronic wasting disease. Now we're 193 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:48.279 starting to get to the point where the dog is 194 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:53.399 trying to identify a really really small, small signal among 195 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.240 like the entire odor profile of an elk scat. There's 196 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:58.000 just a little bit in there that tells us whether 197 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:00.399 or not it's chronic wasting disease. And that's there's a 198 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.799 project out of the pen VAT working dogs that are 199 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:07.159 working on that. It's extremely challenging but very very cool work. 200 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.600 On our website, we're going to link more research on 201 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.799 that from Penn University's Vet department on chronic wasting disease 202 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.200 having been detected in the Hog Heaven Reserve in Montana 203 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:20.159 as well as in Michigan. A not at all alarming 204 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:25.120 headline read researchers worn zombie deer disease could spread to humans. 205 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.279 And if you're like, what is a preon? Why does 206 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:32.240 it sound like a computer part, Well, it's a misfolded protein. 207 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:34.600 And we talk more about proteins and how they fold 208 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:38.399 with doctor Raven Baxter aka Raven the Science Maven in 209 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.559 her episode on Molecular Biology, and we also address it 210 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:46.240 in the two part Servitology episode All about Deer with 211 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.480 not one but two Rhannon's who Study Deer. Speaking of 212 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:53.360 other episodes, last week's Ethnosynology episode with David E and 213 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:58.279 How discussed how dogs are a biotechnology which not only 214 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:02.879 could outsmell a machine, but could also probably chew it 215 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.799 up and leave it for dead. Are dogs better at 216 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.840 that than machines? Or are they quicker or are they 217 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.519 more portable? What's the benefit to using a little cutie 218 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:16.399 babies that love working as opposed to a sample a 219 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:17.840 machine in the field. 220 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:20.519 So one of my mentors, Simon goad Bois, who's out 221 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:25.039 of dal Housie University, he thinks that in all likelihood, 222 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.399 in our lifetimes we're going to see machines taking over 223 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.440 things like medical detection. So you know, you hear sometimes 224 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.360 about the cancer sniffing dogs or dogs that are able 225 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:35.559 to sniff PTSD those sorts of things. There's a pretty 226 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:39.320 good chance that we're going to see devices that can 227 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.919 do that in our lifetimes. But that's partially because you're 228 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:44.679 taking a sample. Maybe you've got like a you can 229 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.120 imagine a device that you breathe into, like a breathalyzer. 230 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.200 Basically that would be pretty easy to actually create the 231 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.799 device that can do the old faction and everything else. 232 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.240 But when we're talking like our work in Alaska, you know, 233 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.840 Barley was covering sixteen eighteen kilometers, which I don't know 234 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:02.919 what that is in miles, like ten or twelve miles 235 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:06.799 maybe in a day. If we had a device that 236 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:08.600 was going to do that, one of us would probably 237 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.159 have to be carrying it. I know they've piloted some 238 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:14.240 that are like wheeled, but we're not working on terrain 239 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.600 that you could wheel something around. There also was a 240 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:18.919 really interesting study done by the Department of Defense a 241 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:21.519 while ago where they had one of these like old 242 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.240 factometers on wheels and they compared it to a dog, 243 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:27.960 and it was just a lot slower because basically dogs 244 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.360 are a lot more efficient at searching an area, and 245 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:34.080 maybe with appropriate training, the human who was manning that 246 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:36.720 machine could have gotten better at it. But it's just 247 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:38.960 not likely to be something we see in our lifetimes. 248 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:40.960 And also, you know, so I don't want to carry 249 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:41.840 something like that. 250 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:47.320 So heavy, expensive, not delicate enough in their abilities, and 251 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.360 also they don't exist now eco odorology dogs, they're not 252 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.399 going to be phased out anytime soon. Also, machines can't 253 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.240 hang in the field like Barley or Niffler or Ellie 254 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.039 Suki Scottie or Alie. 255 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.440 A lot of those those instruments are not going to 256 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.399 be waterproof. They're not going to be mudproof. You know, 257 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.960 They're not gonna be something that you can like drop 258 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.759 and pick up in the mud and like keep going. 259 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.360 Versus the dogs, like, there are problems, you know. They 260 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.360 the dogs get ticks, the dogs can get sick, the 261 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.279 dogs can get injured, But a machine could also get injured, 262 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:21.279 I suppose, oh, if you think about it that way. 263 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.639 But they're overall just a little bit heartier than like 264 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:24.639 most machines are. 265 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:28.320 If there's ever a Boston Dynamics dog that has an 266 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.480 eco odorological device, again, that's not going to be our lifetime. 267 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:35.240 It's also going to be much creepier and expensive, I imagine. 268 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.279 Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean I can imagine a couple upsides. 269 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.399 Like the biggest thing I complain about now that I'm 270 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.039 a PhD student is trying to manage the energy level 271 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.000 and the ongoing training of the dogs when I'm not 272 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.039 in the field and kind of constantly needing to Like, 273 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:51.399 you know, I was up at six point thirty this 274 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:52.799 morning and took the dogs for a run in the 275 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.120 rain in Oregon, and like that was kind of miserable, 276 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:56.639 and it would be nice to have something that I 277 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.960 could just take the batteries out of and then take 278 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.039 out again before the field sees it. But also then 279 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.639 I wouldn't get to live with my dogs, so I 280 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.759 wouldn't actually trade them for something like that. But occasionally, 281 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:08.600 you know, the dogs do require a lot of year 282 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:09.399 round maintenance. 283 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.120 Do they tend to be rescues or do you need 284 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:14.720 a specific breed? 285 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.960 It varies a little bit depending on which organization you're 286 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.919 talking to. So like within Canine Conservationists, four of our 287 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:22.799 five dogs are rescues, and. 288 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.519 Kayla says that's within their core group, but when they 289 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:30.159 hire contractors, about ninety percent of those working dogs are 290 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.000 rescues as well. Some groups prefer to have the family 291 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.440 line medical history of a breeder dog, but Kayla says 292 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:42.559 Canine Conservationists actually prefer rescues because they're older and they're 293 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:45.440 ready to train, as opposed to what she calls the 294 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:51.120 floppy sloppy puppy. Years now, most military and government worker dogs, however, 295 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.960 are from breeders, and part of that it's just because 296 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.480 they have the budget. I looked up what that budget 297 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.759 is and found that around LA, the current price for 298 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:05.279 a police dog is approximately twelve thousand dollars just to 299 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.720 get the dog, not including the training, which runs about 300 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:14.080 thirteen thousand dollars, but then maintenance, training, equipment, supplies, and 301 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.639 vet care. That's the guacamole of the dog budget that's 302 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.799 going to run you extra. How much harder is it 303 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.720 to sniff out chronic wasting disease and elk or a 304 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:29.399 wolf that has the flu than finding cocaine in luggage? 305 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:35.120 Ooh, my gut. Reaction is finding cocaine and luggage is 306 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:38.759 hard because people are actively trying to conceal it from 307 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.720 the dogs. And some people are smart about that, a 308 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.240 lot of them do, I understanding it or not. But 309 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.000 that is something that we don't have to deal with 310 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.679 in the conservation dog world. We don't have to deal with, 311 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:55.919 you know, samples generally that have been like wrapped in 312 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.320 a bunch of plastic and then dipped in gasoline and 313 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:00.600 then buried in coffee grounds or something thing like that, 314 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:04.080 you know, which is what sometimes is done with trafficking, 315 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.120 Uh wow, to fool the dogs. I think you know, 316 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.120 if you had just plain samples out. The chronic wasting 317 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.399 disease is probably harder. But the problem with cocaine is 318 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:14.120 that it's concealed. 319 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.519 Whenever there's like a dog at the airport, I'm always afraid, like, 320 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:22.320 what if someone brushed up against me with drugs or something. Yeah, 321 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.759 everyone's like, oh, this is so cute, that's so weird. 322 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:31.919 But what other industries use ecoorderology other than conservation and 323 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.759 trafficking and law enforcement? What other applications are there for 324 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.720 dogs who are really really good at their noses. 325 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:42.759 Yeah, so you know, if we're talking ecotology, that probably 326 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.960 is primarily the conservation ecology those sorts of things because 327 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.559 it is ego. But then we also can get into 328 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.320 a lot of it then goes into law enforcement. So yeah, 329 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.120 we've got the drug dogs. A lot of us know 330 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.759 about those. There also are quite a few firearms detection dogs. 331 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.799 Primarily this is a little bleak in US schools. There's 332 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.799 kind of an increasing push for dogs that can find 333 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.119 firearms in schools. I don't love that that is a 334 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.559 place that we're at, but it is an industry that exists. 335 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.799 And then explosives detection dogs. I have a couple acquaintances 336 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.759 who trained dogs to do, like they check stadiums before 337 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.200 like the Super Bowl, those sorts of things, and then 338 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.799 a lot of you know, missing persons dogs, dogs that 339 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:28.119 maybe trail suspects, human remains detection dogs will also look 340 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.119 for again missing people. And then there's live Find disaster 341 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:33.359 search and rescue dogs. So we're recording. I guess it's 342 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.039 been a while since Helene at this point. 343 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.680 And Helene was a category for hurricane that hit the 344 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.759 southeast United States in September twenty twenty four with two 345 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.119 hundred and nineteen people killed and nearly thirty missing. 346 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:48.920 Still, you know, if we think of Helene, I know 347 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.799 that it was a huge mobilization of live find disaster 348 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.039 search and rescue dogs that were getting sent out to 349 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.799 then try to find people who were in the floodwaters. 350 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.000 And we're still alive and needing to be prioritized for rescue. 351 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.319 Why is it important for you to get the word out? 352 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.000 Why are you so passionate about this? 353 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.720 Oh, that's such a good question. I mean because I 354 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.200 love it, Like I just love getting to talk about it. 355 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.599 I think I have the coolest job in the world, 356 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:15.920 and I like to get to tell other people about it, 357 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.759 and I like how happy it makes people. It's nice 358 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:21.599 to have something to do with conservation and the environment 359 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.519 that makes people feel good. I also think that there's 360 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.480 a lot of applications for conservation detection dogs that haven't 361 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.319 been explored fully yet. The more people who are aware 362 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.440 of it and are getting involved, the more likely we 363 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.839 are to connect be able to continue moving this industry 364 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.519 forward in a really responsible and thoughtful and evidence based way. 365 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.440 You know, it's interesting. I've interviewed to a lot of 366 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.400 people who are wildlife collegists and they say that they 367 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.000 wanted to start in veterinary medicine because they love dogs. 368 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.079 But then veterinary medicine is a really difficult field emotionally 369 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:54.359 as well. It's really hard to get into vet school. 370 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.359 And it's interesting that you work in conservation but you 371 00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.759 also get to work with dogs as you're in the 372 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:00.400 film field. 373 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.400 Absolutely, I mean that is one of the other things 374 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.880 that I always really have loved about this field is that, 375 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.480 you know, when I was a little girl, I was 376 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.039 obsessed with Jane Goodall, and I you know, I'd watch 377 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.119 all these documentaries of her interacting with the primates, and 378 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.680 you know, her like handing that banana to David Graybeard. 379 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:21.440 It was the first time that a chimpanzee reached out 380 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.720 to make contact with me, and I. 381 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.759 Was just like, oh my god, this is what biology is, 382 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:26.720 this is what I want to do. And I was 383 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.400 watching Steve Irwin and you know, like that's what I 384 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.240 wanted to do. And then the further I got into 385 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.920 my career and realized, like a lot of times we're 386 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.000 not actually interacting with these animals at all. We're not 387 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.759 touching them, we're not playing with them. And to some 388 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.200 of that, I think there's a huge ethical benefit to that. 389 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.200 I think that is a good thing, but emotionally it 390 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.079 was disappointing. So having this domestic animal that I do 391 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.640 get to sleep in my bed and I get to 392 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:51.839 you know, feed the little chicken nuggets and told how 393 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.920 cute he is, you know, and even just like checking 394 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:56.480 them for ticks at the end of a field day, 395 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.759 and like having time to like groom them and hang 396 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.480 out together and just have that emotional bond. It genuinely 397 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.359 is so nice and it's so meaningful, and I don't 398 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.720 think it should be trivialized as just a silly emotional 399 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:12.960 thing that we want, Like I think loving animals is 400 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.359 such an important driver for so many of us, and 401 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:18.200