Speaker 1: I didn't even throw that in there.
Speaker 2: It was reloaded.
Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another weekly review episode
of Geek First Podcast. I am one of your hosts,
the guitar Kirklin Patzer.
Speaker 2: I am the Eli taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we got the last of us
season two penultimate episode, if I'm not mistaken, And before
we get into the juice of what is this show
just a couple of plugs to shout out and or
is all finished completely which is sad, But go check
out those reviews. Those are on the feed. I feel
like we have a movie review out, but it's it's
probably been a while because I think What Thunderbolts was
the last review that we did right on the main feed. Wow,
it's a little while ago. But we got Mission Impossible
eight coming out this week, which I'm super excited for.
We got our Michigan Impossible retros that are on the
Patreon feeds right now. So go check out Patreon where
you get everything early, ad free exclusive. Where's our little
banner there it is? Yeah, we got different tiers on there,
and our highest tier, which is the number one supporters
of the podcast. We got our Patreon producers Aaron Brayden,
April of Darkness, Jack Grant, Sam Super Bad, Mike, The Good,
God Loves Me sixty nine, Jeremy Renner, Charlie Randell, Cocktail Clay. Wow,
it's getting longer to say. I almost have to take
a breath as we're going, which is fantastic. So shouts
out to each and every one of you for sporting
the show. And yeah, there's probably a couple other things.
Shout out. I got side quests always.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I think Travis and Dylan are gonna be talking about
Doomed Dark Ages this week, so if you're interested in that,
go check that out. And I know we got a
juicy weekly geek that's brewing right now. You and me,
Taylor are gonna be tackling that at some point this week.
So yeah, lots of good stuff. Keep your eyes on
the feeds. Without further ado, let's get into it. So
taytor Field, you were not with me. You know, we're
just talking half cast. I'm the only remaining member that's
been on every single week, so I feel like that
doesn't often happen where there's just one person that's on
there for a review. It's usually like one person might
have to miss an episode two, but this has been
quite the rotation. And thank you for joining me this week.
What did you think quick thoughts from last week? Because
you were on two weeks ago, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I'm like alternating weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. And then Travis is like to
to miss to too, you know, he does odd And
then I think we're still waiting for Dylan to join
one of this week's We'll see if he catches up
for the finale next week. But yeah, what did you
think of last week's episode? And yeah, just lead that
into your this week's spoiler free of course, and we'll
get spoiler.
Speaker 2: Free spoiler free. Yeah, last week's episode was really, really good.
I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it had lots of moments
that I was just kind of like biting down on
my tongue, biting down on my gritting my teeth, biting
my gums, just thinking this is just like gums biting
the gums. Yeah, this is just some chaotic shit going
on here. But it's just it was getting more into
the mess of Ellie's revenge to go and get justification
for vindication or whatever you want. To call on Joel's death,
and so she's out there with with her lady friend.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I didn't get to speak to this last week obviously
because I wasn't here, but I'm glad to speak to
it now. I'm sure lots of people are probably riding
and freaking out. I've seen a couple of people post
about how you know her friend is pregnant, and Ellie
was like, I'm gonna be a dad and people are
just pissed off about this, and you know what, like
it doesn't matter. But it really doesn't matter in the
fucking apocalypse because there's no how does it matter? Like
humanity is like almost at an end endgame here, the
social construct of things. Who gives a flying fuck? I mean,
who gives a fuck about it now? But I just
wanted to reiterate it, like it doesn't matter. I mean,
if you're pissed off, it's the apocalypse. I mean, do
you think the zombies the clickers give a flying fuck
about it? No, so you shuck either. So there's my
there's my defense. That's the case. The scene of them
though that. I also wanted to highlight her friend tag
and alonga thank you, thank you, I stressing out there.
I'm very very I'm very stressed out for Dina to
be there, especially now that she is pregnant, and for
her to be going along and doing this thing with
Ellie just to she's made her case and point that
she is doing this not just for Ellie. She's going
with Ellie to help Ellie get that revenge, but she's
also doing it for herself to get along with Ellie
being a very important friend to her. So it just
stresses me out because I don't want her to die
because of Ellie's pain and revenge and all that. And
I really thought something was going to happen. Again, I
haven't played the games, so this is all in charge
of territory for me. I really thought something was going
to happen when they went into that building that they
weren't supposed to go into and there was just the
one smart clicker and then it's just a whole bunch.
And I was on the cusp of brick shitting because
when they were all like up on the crates and
I was like, oh, there's like four or five of
these fuckers, they turned around there's like another five. Holy fuck,
this is terrifying. And then not Seth. I never I
want to call him Seth. What's his name? He shows
up and saves them?
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2: I always want to call him Seth.
Speaker 1: You know he I guess he's got an injury, so
he's not that good out there. But yeah, what did
you say he used to be an officer.
Speaker 2: He used to be an officer. Yeah, yeah, you can't spell.
I used to be an officer. And he likes Lego's
big fan of Lego bricks. But we'll talk about that later. Yeah.
So I just think when when Jesse showed up and
he showed up with Tommy, but we didn't see Tommy yet,
but you know, Tommy is there and they basically saved them.
That was pretty good. And man, the the sequence of
just the the breathable spores and the spores that can
kind of just go around like they're in the air now,
that just gave me the heb gbs. And just seeing
like Buddy on the wall exhaling like some bad asthma,
just putting this shit out there. That's not what you want.
That's that's a rough day. I'm wondering if they're like
totally infected, like well, I know they're infected, but like
are they cognitively aware of what's going on? They just
sitting there exhaling, thinking like how did I get into
this position? Let me tell you kind of a scenario.
Speaker 1: I take it like a part of the ship, part
of the crew type situation. You know, they're definitely not
fully there, but they can just pop out and tell
a story.
Speaker 2: What's the lesser of two evils in that case? Part
of the ship or.
Speaker 1: I would say part of the ship is better than
this because you have a chance of being freed, right,
and like people can visit you. You know, people aren't
coming down here and chat with you in the in
the cellars of where the quarterceps are. I guess Elie's
the only one that could do that. But no, I
would take part of the ship up, part of the crew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would too. But yeah, getting into this episode,
it it was packed with the feels. And I watched
it with Madison. She her heart just terrors because there's
just you feel for some of these characters, one character
in particular that we'll talk about, and yeah, it's just
it's it's sad and it's heavy, and they do a
really good job at just selling that emotion to the viewer,
and there's there's so many things, and one actor in particular,
he's just if he was already top tier, top ten
before and now I mean he's just like reaffirms that
goes into like the top crescendo tier. I don't know,
he's just he's amazing. He's an amazing actor, not seth uh.
Speaker 1: But you got from the matrix, right, is that you're
talking about the witch guy? Oh, I'll pull his name up.
I can't remember his name. You keep going, oh, I'm curious.
Speaker 2: Now, oh, I know exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like Cipher. Yeah, yeah, it is Cipher, Joe Pantaliano.
There you go.
Speaker 2: Ignorance is Bliss. Yeah, yeah, so I'm I'm I thought
that guy.
Speaker 1: We're not talking about that. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: This is a really really good episode. It was really good,
really grounding, and yeah, it's just it was a calm
before the storm. Even though there was a lot of
emotion packed into it, and even though it covers a
lot of ground, it doesn't feel rushed, and I feel
like it really does its job to help us understand
the dynamics and a lot more context to fill that
backstory that we were maybe missing when we got into
like episode one, and I think if people watched that
first episode and then episode two and how things kind
of escalated, and people might think, oh, I was kind
of missing a little bit of stuff. Get to this
episode and you're going to have a lot more information
filled out, and I think it'll be a lot more
It puts a positive sp on this season in a
immense way. So well done.
Speaker 1: Nice, Yeah, well done. Yeah. I mean this week, we
knew it was gonna be a flash back episode, just
with how last week ended, and I was looking forward
to the flashback. I was a little bit like, I
feel like unsettled too strong a word, but I was perturbed,
but maybe that it was coming in the penultimate just
just because it's like, oh wow, like we're wrapping up
the season here, and this is a lot of stuff
I was looking forward to. And at the time, I
was really thinking I personally would have wanted it like
sprinkled throughout the whole season, just so that we would
get a little bit more Paidro inclusion, because he's just fantastic,
especially in Yeah, he's just fantastic in general, but also
as Joel Miller. I just really like that performance. And
then to see him working with like across Bella. I
think those two are just fantastic. So it makes sense
that we just get into one episode knowing that Travis
and I were talking last week how supposedly he gets
paid per episode, like that's how they do it, so
that'd be an expensive sprinkling throughout if he's just here
for four or five minutes per week. So it makes
sense why we get it, And after watching it, I
actually really like the way that it's done now, so
I definitely am eating my words there. I think this
was a really really good way and probably the best
way to do it, honestly. The flashback sequence because you know,
minor spoilers already said this is a flashback episode, but
this is like very heavy emotional also, you know you're
kind of talking about that. Also, like this one hits
in the feels I think pretty much throughout, and it
has a big reveal that I kind of knew what
the reveal was, but to just finally get it on screen,
it was super super just emotional and heavy and great
performances between Pedro and Bella. I just think they both
honestly like both of them, like fifty percent. I don't
think there was really one better than the other. I
think they both brought it and they kind of had
to just because it's such a yeah, an impactful, emotional
I'll say it, I guess minor spoiler like last time,
these two are like talking to each other. It's of
course it's flashback, but like still, it's just really really
heavy one with what we got now, and I like
that it does come in the penultimate obviously, you know,
I would love to have more episodes so to say,
it comes here and we still have quite a few
episodes left in the season. But I am happy with
where it happened, just because the big event happens in
episode two, which I was really just torn on for
so many different reasons. But you get like multiple episodes
to kind of just stew on it, and then here
we kind of jump back in. And I think if
this would have happened closer to that episode too, like
let's say if this was episode three when you get
all this flashback, obviously it still would have been really
emotional and heavy, but it just wouldn't have hit the
same way because we had so much time to kind
of stew on it. That's at least my take on it.
So yeah, I think there's a really really stalar episode.
It's mostly just character stuff which is really really well done.
They go to some really beautiful places and but yeah,
like throughout is just a really sad our episode and
definitely I feel like a lot more caught up I
think with everything going forward, Like I don't feel too
head scratching on certain characters. I don't want to say motivations,
but just kind of what their thoughts are. But yeah, no,
I think this is really really good and kind of sad.
It's coming to an end so quickly here just because
it is so top tier of a show. It's really
really well made. But yeah, no, it's I think I'll
leave it there for spoiler free. If you have anything
else you want to mention forever.
Speaker 2: Older piece, I'm holding that piece.
Speaker 1: All right. We're gonna hold our pieces and we'll be
right back to break down this episode spoilers. We're right back,
all right, We're back. Anywhere you want to jump to. First,
my guest is all that you.
Speaker 2: Let me pick, Let me pick. I want I want
to highlight how they chose to focus on like time
jumping and we covered four years. I want to say,
but each year, specifically, the date of each year time
jump was the birthday. I really liked this because it
it shows the great happy times and then it just
takes those feels and it cuts them up and puts
them back in your chest when things go sideways. I
really like that, especially when they come off of just
this crazy sequence of just the space shuttle and all that,
which was just that was so beautiful and so.
Speaker 1: Fun Jurassic Park Park.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was amazing, and it just totally goes
kerfuffle when yeah, it catches her in her in her
room doing all that funky stuff, the drugs and the
tattoos and all the craziness, and so then you see, okay,
this is when he's helping her move into the garage,
and it just spirals out after that. I wasn't expecting
a two year time jump, and I wasn't even really
sure how many years they were living in this colony
four in Jackson, So now we know. I think it
was like five now at least around there, because she was.
Speaker 1: Fourteen in the season one and then she was nineteen,
So five years jump. I think they actually say that
in this first episode of the season if I remember correctly.
I can't think it says five years later.
Speaker 2: I'll secure word for it.
Speaker 1: I just have that in my mind because everything does
a five year jump. Now I'll start old.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, I can see it now. Yes, there was
five years later. Yeah, because it was when the fireflies
were talking, I was like five years later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's this adds so much context to what
we were missing from that New Year's episode where it's Okay,
the relationship is really rocky, what's going on here? And
I mean people can probably counter and have problems with
the way that they're telling the story and how they
choose to do it, but I do like it. I
like that we were kind of kept on edge about wondering, Okay,
what's really going then we lost Joel and how we're revisiting.
And I'm not always I'm not always been a big
fan of the flashback episode. After the fact, I kind
of like because that we know he's the fact that
he is dead though, it changes that dynamic for me
in this sense with the flashback because Okay, he's dead,
these scenes carry that much more weight and they they
really hit home a lot more, especially because he's dead.
So when you get to the the end of it
where she is now back in Seattle and she's gonna
be kicking ass and killing Abby's, yeah, you can just
you can really feel like the passion behind her, especially
because in one of those moments she was choosing to
want to forgive Joel for what he had done, and
it seemed like, okay, they could have they could have
turned things around. But anyways, I kind of I spread
spread out my wings a little too much the birthdays
and all that flashbacks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you. I think it's
a good just kind of checkpoint to have for every
year jump, just checking in on her birthday because it's
it's it's an event for like, no matter what's going on,
it would make sense why Ellie and Joel are together
on that event, especially starting at the beginning when it's
it's just right off of essentially season one, like one
year later, so they're still really close and no like
stewing hatred, And I liked how just sprinkled throughout the
year jumps. You know, we got a two year jump
in between there, but it just it makes sense, I think,
like the am I trying to say this, like the
way that it's it's eating away at Ellie, just like
the question that maybe she thought she could just kind
of look past, but then it's just always kind of
nagging her, and it's something where like she I think
she always believes that she knew like that was the case,
but then she's kind of lying to herself. And then
just the more time she has to do on it,
the more it's, the more she analyzes it, the more
it doesn't make sense, right, like the way that Joel
kind of phrased it with the raiders and everything, just
how everything went down at the end of season one,
and that's something that in the episode two event, I
felt like I was really just I was I wasn't
expecting to lose Joel that early, and then I just
didn't understand like the hatred towards like Joel from Ellie's perspective,
So it was a lot of just head scratching and confusion.
Whereas I feel like now I totally understand and the
way that it was laid out in this episode, her
feelings back in that episode two or I guess before
that episode one, it makes sense now, So I think
this is like perfect result that you kind of wanted
from this flashback, So I think they definitely did a
good job. And to contain it just in one episode,
I think is another thumbs up, because like there's a
lot of filling in in this episode and I'm glad
I'm not like, well, they still didn't answer this, you know,
towards those two characters. So I think they rounded out
the kind of the loose threads around Joel and Ellie,
which which was important and that's really what this episode
was for, and I definitely think they achieved that. But yeah, no,
I think it was really well done. Obviously, just like
all the scenes of them together and just like enjoying
each other's company, like especially in the first flashback, like
I was joking when they go to Jurassic Park and
like that's just so like wholesome. And of course I'm
just thinking about how Joel's brutally murdered and she that's
how she saw him, and then up until this point,
I'm just thinking how like they never actually got to
say like a final goodbye, because that's how it was
revealed in that episode two. So I'm just like basically
choking up and all these like really heartfelt moments and
then I'm just gonna skip ahead here because I'm thinking
about it right now, but to the point that it
gets to not really modern day, but the most modern
of the flashbacks, when it is like the New Year's party,
and then you know Seth's being Seth's being Seth. And
then it gets to that moment when they see each
other in the snow and they don't say anything, and
I'm like, ah, and they never get to see each other,
and then she fucking takes a couple steps up on
the deck and they actually reveal that there's more to
that scene, and that was like a like a holy shit,
gasp moment, Like I was totally uh surprised by that.
I thought that was really really well done of just
revealing to us that there was more to that sequence,
and they did kinda talk about it, and obviously it's
not like a Kumbaya moment like I'm sorry for all
the things she's still really mad at him. But I
think the line that really hit me hard was when
she's like, but I can try to, like showing that
she's not fully or Joel's not fully dead to her.
I just thought that was like such a gut punch
because it's already super emotional, just knowing everything that we know,
but knowing that, like deep down her heart she knew that,
like they are still somewhat of a father daughter you know, dynamic.
And yeah, that was just that one like really got
to me. So I think that part of the episode
was my favorite. Uh, just kind of letting us, yeah,
just feeling us in that there was a little bit
more to that, and I am a little bit happier
knowing that Jewel died at least being able to like
tell her the truth. And of course they're both just
totally selling the sequence, both Bella and ud Joel Pedro
and Bella are just getting super emotional and just yeah, no,
that was like chef's kiss type of scene for me.
But pretty much all the flashbacks it was. It was
tough too because just them adventuring together, and every time
Joel's like, oh, like we should do this more often,
I'm like, man, like I just missed that dynamic of
season one when like it was always those two together.
So yeah, I was just eating all that up. But yeah,
I covered a lot there, pretty much every flashback there,
but mostly just the sequence. Yeah, when Joel's like fixing
the guitar, drinking his coffee and they chat the in
how that work out for you? Were you surprised? So
we got a little bit more there, did you think
we were?
Speaker 2: I was very surprised. I was not expecting that, but
I loved it. Joel is such a handyman. I would
love to feel like if I owned a home, I'd
love to call him up to come and work on
my property. He's so good kutting out bones and making
guitars and all that. Yeah, this this setting and the
application here of just establishing okay, this is him taking
into this father role quite well, and Ellie just taken
in the fact that I'm your daughter kind of a thing.
And it really really works. And it was really heartwarming
to see their relationship kind of unfolding here. And yeah,
I really like that and how it escalates from that
and you start to see the the year's kick in
and things change. I was not expecting us to get
Joel's perspective when we got up to the New Year's
party and he drops Seth and whatnot. Yeah, like I
I just think it's it's it has a lot of
weight after everything that we've seen on top of these
flashbacks now, adding a little bit more context to get
to that point he had already mentioned, where she says like,
I can never forgive you this, but I want to try.
It's just heavy, and I'm sad that that got taken
away from us. We never get to but maybe these
flashbacks are her way of processing it. And when she
kills Abby, that's gonna be her like, Joel, I forgive
you because she feels her purpose was taken away. She
felt her purpose was to die so that she could
save humanity. But man, Pedro Pascal, fuck, he's good when
he's this, like I love you in a way that
you just you can't understand. I'm like, oh my god,
I love you too, Pedro. He's just doing such a
good job. And man, oh man, oh man, especially when
he was in the astronaut ship and he's with La
and he's like, did I do good? And she's like yeah,
and he like looks back up and you just see
like a little tear coming out the side of his
eye and his eyes getting watery. I'm like it, Fuck,
this man is incredible. God damn. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then we got uh, speaking of backs, we
got a young Joel and young Tommy with their papa,
the Swordsman. I wasn't expecting to see him the MCU
Swordsman coming in here. And yeah, I did like this
pretty much just because of how it led to that
line at the end, like when he's on the porch
and just saying, I'm in a paraphrase lin because I'm
gonna not remember it properly, but essentially just like if
you ever have kids your own, I hope you do
better than how I did. So it was just like
a powerful full circle moment of like especially when his
dad's telling him the story of like how terrible his
dad was, and then it's just like this circle of
you know, Pedro's dad was like abusive, probably an alcoholic,
and then I mean, Joel never abused Ellie. I don't
think so, so I guess he is doing better. And
then we'll see. We'll see if Ellie ever gets to
be the papa to uh Dina's child. I don't know
if that happens or not. We'll see.
Speaker 2: Did you think that Joel's dad was gonna like pull
a grandpa on him? Because when he's like, yeah, beat
the ship up, got out of got out of the car,
and he broke my job. Blood was everywhere, and it
was quiet. I'm thinking, Oh, what's he gonna do to Joel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was expecting something like that to happen, So
I guess credit to that father because he didn't end
up doing it. I found it funny how I mean,
it is the eighties, you know, so times were different.
But he just like crushes this Budweiser with his son.
It's like, I gotta get back on shift break.
Speaker 2: He's a cop by the way, Yeah, just.
Speaker 1: Crushing this beard going back out there, and like, yeah,
that's probably how it was back in the eighties early
eighties Texas sheriff there. But no, I think that was
I don't know. It definitely not the best scene out
of the bunch in this episode, but I still think
it did a good enough job. It just kind of
adding a little bit of extra substance to the character
of Joel, and then really it just it just amplified.
I think that line at the end when he's because
Joel just you know, he's seeing that side of his
own father, and then he obviously knows that he's not
a perfect individual, and then he's just trying to be
the best that he can for Ellie and then just
how it ends, obviously not how he would have wanted
to go, but because he is a very flawed character, right,
and I think he makes a lot of not the
best decisions, but he makes the best decisions to what
he thinks is not necessarily right, but like I guess,
I guess it is the right thing to do in
a survival setting. I guess we can just kind of
transition to the Eugene sequence with Cipher. I chuckle so
hard just just seeing him there, and like we probably
got him in a trailer, Like I probably knew this
actor was gonna be in this show, but I feel
like it's just this big Eugene thing that's been thrown
around throughout this whole Season's like, when are we gonna
fucking see Eugene. And then as soon as they're on
patrol and then they talk about Adam and Eugene, I'm like,
oh my god, Eugene is just You're done Norman, like
like you're out Norman, Like he is so done in
the sequence, and then they go and find him and
it's just Cipher there, and I just think of the
Matrix and I'm just chockolate to myself, But yeah, Eugene
got got bit on the ribs and pretty dark handling
of the situation. It's not really how I thought it was.
I thought it was just because like the way that
it was talked about, I thought, you, I thought Eugene
got bit maybe like around the town and then everyone
just like knew that he was infected, and then like
every like it was just like a more collaborative effort
amongst the town, like a council decision, like Kate, we
gotta just end Eugene here. Because when Catherine O'Hara talks
about that event in episode I think it's episode one,
she's like, yeah, I know you had to do it,
Like it just seemed like it was a lot more
clear of a situation, whereas this it's a lot more
I feel like nefarious or sinister is too extreme of
a word is to use, but it is kind of
like there's some lies in there, and then uh, of
course Ellie just drops the big bomb to to her there.
But yeah, what do you think about the Eugene reveal here?
And is Joel on the right are you signing with
Ellie here? You are you ratting him out right in
front of the widow. I think that's a pretty bold
move to play. Obviously, Ellie was very emotional in that moment,
so to an extent I understand, but still fuck Ellie, like,
come on, I'm like, you just pain to this grieving
widow here. But again, she is emotional, she's only what
was she nineteen? I think in that sequence nineteen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, first patrol. Everything that happened with Eugene, it's it's
very unfortunate, and I Joel, there's there are rules in place,
like bringing him back was not the right idea, and
that's I'm assuming that's based on the rules that are
established by Jackson and the council and everything like that.
So it's a tricky situation. But I don't think Joel
handled it the right way by any means. I don't
think that, you know, he definitely, I feel like he
died it was in peace. I feel like that scene
definitely sold me that he was able to see her
and see his wife and pass in peace. But it
could have he could have had actual, real satisfaction by
seeing his wife in person. I guess too, like it
could have gone a different way. I feel kind of
on the side with Ellie and that's it's a conflict
of interests. I'm no expert. When you're in these situations
in the Apocalypse and you got zombies and corterceps and
clickers all that kind of stuff, you have to be
careful because it's your humanity that will cost you lives.
It'll cost you could cost you your own life. Whe
they're not you're saving just regular other people and they
they're raiders or something, or you're saving someone who's bit
I don't know. You got to be very careful. Joel was.
He's changed a lot, as we've seen through the birthdays
and everything, and I think it kind of helps remind you, Okay,
he's really changing. He's not like that guy that he
was before, where he was pretty, you know, cold blooded
killer kind of a thing before he met Ellie back
in season one. So here he is now, and then
we're reminded that deep down he is still that broken character.
Deep down, he's still that Jole that we knew and
we're familiar with from that first season. Even after we've
had all these scenes of him warming up to Ellie
and doing all these very sweet special moments and things
for her birthdays, he still is a part of that
old self deep down inside of him. So it adds
a lot more to again the line that we were
talking about, when you have your own, just do a
little bit better than I did. It just it knocks
out of the park. So these all these different scenes,
they all just build up to that climactic moment there
with with Ellie when he says that, and it just
adds a lot more cushion behind it, to a lot
more ammunition. But yeah, I do feel bad for you, Jim.
I just wanted to see his wife pulls out a
gun with no ammo. I mean even I saw that
thing was not loaded. But he's just he's in disarray.
He got a nasty rib shot. Yeah, it's it's just
it's freaky. I feel like they're very lax walking through
the woods, especially when you see a horse with a
dead body dragon off the side.
Speaker 1: It's like, man, this is oh Elli and Joel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like you'd want to get to like
high ground or something. And I guess they I only
saw two clickers, so I guess maybe they were just
caught really off guard when they were down there. But yeah,
I don't know, I don't know. It sucks that him
going about lying and I'm just rambling at this point,
but in closing him lying to Gail and saying those
things like even my job dropped. How he said those
things like he did it himself. He wished you the best,
you know, Tata man, this is just some this is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like they like take the bag off.
It's like you shot himself? Why did you shoot himself
six times? You know? No, it didn't go that way.
I mean, like what do you do in that situation though? Right,
Like like Keelleen, she lost her hus been. If you
tell her the truth, it's obviously gonna make it way worse,
like at the end of the day, the results the same.
I I don't know. I think it's I guess it's
a moral moral dilemma question there of like what's what's
more right. I definitely think there's rules in place for
a reason, you know, for the safety of Jackson, because
worst case scenario, they get this guy to Jackson, and
as you're already laid out, the weakest link amongst this
is just like the human connection, the human emotion of
like maybe Gail really really doesn't want, you know, to
accept the fact that her her husband is a death
sentence here, and she I don't know, gets close to him.
He turns she but he bites her, so another person
tries to save her, like like it could just chain
that way in domino effect and really be like a
worse event than it is. So I totally understand the
rule that is in place, like it it is better
for safety wise to just end him. Right then Joel
lies straight up to Ellie, which is a big no no,
especially just like abusing her trust like that. It's something
that she's already kind of questioning because the whole firefly thing.
So yeah, I think that by the time, like Ellie
rats him out in front of Gail, I think it's
pretty fucked up. But at the same time, I understand
why she does it because Joel just like lied to
her the exact same way that he lied to Ellie,
and Ellie's understanding now that it's it's not the first
time that's happened to a very big lie. So I
think for like just as a show sake, Like I
thought that was a really well played sequence. I think,
although personally I would have handled it differently, I think
just for drama's sake, for entertainment wise, it was handled
really well. But yeah, I then getting back to like
the actual decision for Joel, I think it's kind of
nice that, you know, he brings this guy to like
you kind of good fellows him. Hey, it's like you're
gonna be a maid man, you know, I'm gonna take
you to Gail Enters the room. He's like, oh fuck,
just shot in the head. In that moment, like I
feel like I would almost just want to not have
a big lead up, like just take me to a
nice view and then just like put a bullet in
my head. And it's just like that. It's really quickly.
I don't have time to like really understand the situation
of just begging, you know, to go see Gail, and
it's just like a ripping off the bandit.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, as soon as you see the beautiful sunrise,
Like fuck, like we're all Eugene in that moment.
Speaker 1: We're yeah, no, it is tough. I think the lie
is what makes it so bad, especially the lied to
Ellie and everything. And then yeah, he's like just lining
straight up to the grieving Gale in that moment. So
at the end of the day, it's a lose lose situation, like,
there's no like great way to go about it. But yeah,
I understand. I think the hatred from Gail towards Joel,
especially realizing that it was like just lying right to
her face right then and there and then. But yeah,
it's it's a powerful sequence.
Speaker 2: The tricky thing is that Joel's like, oh, you know,
he did himself. And you know, if you do it yourself,
I think you're shooting yourself a certain way. But if
she's like, I want to see I want to see him.
Speaker 1: Look, is there a bullet hole in the back of
his head to get the gun in the back of
the head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. And I imagine she would have seen
it at some point. Maybe not, maybe she doesn't want
to see. But I digress. It's like another ad break
here and then we'll we'll jump back into it. All right,
we are now back. There's something else I had on
that little goodbye sequence. I don't know. Do you have
anything on the execution of Eugene?
Speaker 2: Oh? Hm, no, I think we covered it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, moving on? What else do we get here?
We already talked about the ending, just the filling and
the Cracks flashback there, Gail, we already talked about. I
feel like we covered a lot already, just because we're
kind of jumping around a lot of flashbacks in this
episode in particular. Oh geez, yeah, we got uh what's
his name, Seth's Legos, Yes, Seth Legos got revealed Pedro.
He got some coffee, you know, like the night before
he died. So that's kind of nice. He's big coffee drinkers.
Coffee drinking myself. I can respect that. What do you
think you traded for it? He said, you you know
you'd be What does he say to Ellie? It's like,
you don't want to know what I had to trade
to get.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, yeah, I'm a very fertile man.
Speaker 1: Oh, I guess. Like the space sequence, I thought that
was pretty pretty fun and touching. And I think Bella
does such a good job at just like looking like
a genuinely uh just happy and surprised like child in
that in that moment, because I think I think this
is her fifteenth birthday for this. Yeah, Like she sees
the dinosaur Land and just every it just seems like
everything that Pedro is like or not Paigro Joel is
like giving to her as a as a gift in
that moment is just like toppying the thing after it.
And I think that's something that they do a really
good job in season one. And I'm playing the first
game right now and just getting a little bit of
experience through like the younger Ellie, and I like, that's
a that's a big trait that she has. It's just
being a child that like grew up in this apocalypse.
Every time she sees something that's like new to her,
she is just so like joyful and youthful and innocent
in those sequences. And to get flashbacks to this, even
though it is in season two, you know, she's a
very fucked up individual. I don't think she'll ever quite
be this innocent again, just just for how far she's
gone in the the vicious nature sure of her, you know,
path the revenge for Abby and Folk. But it was
a nice little just glimpse of, Oh, this would be
nice if they could have just been happy together. Obviously
the show would be a lot less entertaining. But uh, well,
we wouldn't even have a show if they just were
happy for the rest of their days. But yeah, no,
I like how they're able to capture that though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did that with one scene in season one,
and I like those momentes where Ellie's just mystified by
seeing these different things from the world before, like season
one when they were walking and they just see a
down airplane and Ellie's just like flabbergas, like, oh these
things flew. Oh my gosh, I wish I could have
seen that or something. And yeah, it's those things that
remind you like, oh, you kind of do take it
for granted, like we've been on planes multiple times, but
the world just ends. It's like that's it. No more planes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. The other thing I was gonna ask you
about because it's been a big question I think since
last season and something I never fully understood at the
start of the season was like just Ellie's hatred towards Pedro.
Obviously in this in this episode we get a lot
of fill in the gaps and why that is. But
the big question on like I'm thinking of tomb right
er now, you know, one life to save a million
or a billion, whatever whatever the ratio is that he
used in that movie. But just yeah, the whole idea
of like Joel saving Ellie and then that probably fucks
over humanity because they probably could have got a cure
out of her. I'm convinced. I was talking to Shay
about this bulb watch it. I'm like, there's no guarantee
that that cure actually would have worked, like like you know,
people could keep saying that and like the doctor like
he was really a doctor could have made the cure.
It's like, at the end of the day, even if
it was modern time, and like you know, we live
in a day where modern medicine, they think they have
a vaccine that's like ninety nine percent, and it's not
always it's not always the case, especially prototype one. I'm
convinced that there's no guaranteed way that they for sure
would have had a cure, and they could have just
killed l and then had no cure, and then we
would have had no cure and no ELI anymore. So
that argument I'm I'm not fully convinced on. I'm probably
the minority there, but uh yeah, I think there's for
sure no guarantee chance that they would have got a
cure first try, especially because there's so many factors at
play here. But I guess I put you in that situation, Taylor.
Let's say say your daughter gets kidnapped by by these
people that are going to make a vaccine to save
the human race from these these clickers, and are you
are you? Are you taking that risk even though like
I just stated, like, there's no guarantee chance that it
could me work. If it's you pop off on that doctor,
if it's.
Speaker 2: My blood daughter, I'm not doing it. Not chance I
had had shot. Oh yeah, yeah, he killed him as
he did himself. That's what I'll say, five shots to
the dick.
Speaker 1: You did it himself.
Speaker 2: In the context of Ellie, though, I've kind of I.
Speaker 1: Guess, yeah, it's different because it's like adoptive daughter, right,
even though yeah.
Speaker 2: It's adopted daughter. But if he he knew what was
he knew the context of what was gonna go down,
he knew that they would carver up. He shouldn't have
He shouldn't have brought her there, just brought her there
just to kill everyone else and take her back out.
He made bad decisions on top of more bad decisions.
So in my opinion, to kill her to create a
potential cure that might work out, I mean, then humanity
is saved off of killing someone. And you do see
here now that she was willingly wanting that, But Joel
didn't know that at the time. I mean, if it
would have been a very different conversation had this taken
place back then, and Joel would have been like, Okay,
this is what she wants that, I'm just gonna I'm
gonna let that be because he loves her and he
respects her and he wants to you know, he puts
keeping her safe priority number one because he loves her.
But when it comes to developing like a cure, I mean,
in real life, I know that there was what is
the woman's name. There's a woman I want to say, Henrietta,
I think, and they they got her blood, and I
believe that her blood was something that could reproduce on
its own, like an immortal cell or something like that.
And maybe Jesus I'm butchering how I'm explaining this, her
cells are very unique and it led to them creating
several cures for diseases and treatments for like COVID nineteen
and polio and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Speaker 1: What did they murder her?
Speaker 2: She y Joe went in there. It was too late,
got to her first shot herself. Yeah. Yeah, but I
think when you look at that as an example, then people,
these scientists and the show probably looked at it like, yeah,
if we just we cut her up, we take everything,
then we're we have to if we're killing her and
taking everything, we have to have a way of developing
a cure because we've got access to everything and not
just like a little bit. Yeah. I don't know if
that answers your question. I'd be reluctant to sacrifice anyone though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's tough. It's tough, right. I guess the
argument is you gotta crack a couple of eggs to
make an omelet, and I guess the same thing with
the cure. I mean, it's a great dilemma I think
for just the overall story, because it's it is like
at the end of the day, if you're looking at it,
it's just like analytics, it's like, Okay, well, it's probably
worth it to just sacrifice Ellie, especially if she's willing,
like like that's her purpose and it's a big heavy
thing that she just has to carry for the rest
of her life. Now knowing that that, like because of
this person who didn't even ask for my opinion. This
is where we are now. We're living in this shitty
existence of just the infected everywhere, and it just needs
to be getting worse and worse as the years go on.
But I think they do such a great job, especially
in that scene on the porch when he's like telling
her that on like it's like, yeah, I guess at
the end of the day, maybe could have got her
opinion on that instead of playing so like in the
shadows and the tricks and the lies and all that.
But it's something that he's giving up, right, Like it's
not just she's losing her life, he's losing this daughter
like character that he already lost his daughter before. And
then they went through all this bonding together all throughout
season one to lead up to that moment, so that
he's just handing her off and I think, I'm with you.
I don't think I could have. Well, I know I
couldn't have. I think I'd be too selfish and weak,
like Joel is here, and just the way that page's selling,
like the emotion and that scene, it's a conversation never
wanted to think he would have to have with her.
And I liked how in this episode, it's explained how
like it took years to even bring that up from Ellie,
and then obviously it's something that he never would have
wanted to bring up or have to talk about again,
because it is a really hard thing that he has
to live with for the rest of his life, right
like he had murdered all these innocent people that were
trying to make the world a better place. But yeah, no,
I think it's they just did a great job I
think filling in the gaps on this whole event because
we we've already got Abby's flashback from I think it
was an episode two. Was it an episode two Abby splashback?
When we when we see her like seeing her dad
or like talking to herself in the hallway, you don't
want to go in there because it.
Speaker 2: Was before they killed Joel Off, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's episode two. So I like where we
are now. I just feel a lot more in the
know of of of all the stuff that's been something happened.
But yeah, no, that really powerful scene though, I liked
it a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can tell you one thing though, If Seth
was the one that was asked to escort Ellie to
that hospital. Oh he was turning around for.
Speaker 1: Sure, family place. I just chuckled so hard as soon
as we saw Seth again, He's just so like it's
family place. Just shuts out this up. I mean, I
really don't have much else to say, although the beautiful
scene of Eugene looking off in the distance, I'm like, man,
this is some pretty bad green screen here for a
show I never think so, yeah, I know, that's exactly
what I thought of looking at my son's I was
waiting to see odin there waiting for them, But yeah,
it was just for a show with like it looks
phenomenal from start to finish, and that scene is just like, okay, yeah,
it's a little little green screeny here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But whatever.
Speaker 2: Last thing I have on my notes is we got
to see how Ellie got her burned up arm. She
just wanted to wear short sleeved shirts again, so her
bite on her wrist, she just was like fucking and
just nuked it. So there you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was flame. And then kind of a little
more explaining explanation on her tattoo and the whole moth thing. YEA, yeah,
I don't know. Were you like satisfied by that explanation.
It's just like dreams, moths symbolism. And then like Joel
asked Gail a little bit more about it death and
then yeah, I don't know. It was kind of a weird,
weird linking there. Maybe people that played the games, it's
it works a little bit more for them, but for
me it was a little bit of a jump.
Speaker 2: It's I didn't need necessarily, like the context and the
stuff filled in. That was a few minutes of a
scene that could have been without mes. That's just worths
something else. But I mean, it's it is what it is.
It's not like on the noses like, uh, who are
your people? I'm alone? Oh, han Solow, Like, it's not
on the nose like that. Kind of like an origin moment.
So we don't know where this is going to lead
to with the moths, but they they made a point
of making it bigger than than it was, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think we covered everything I
wanted to talk about. Any last Oh Joel singing the
Little Pearl Jam song, I thought that was really nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm shout outs because that's the song Elie was
trying to sing last weeks she's like fuck this and
she couldn't do it. So that's a good call back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely good emotional tie there. So yeah, there's nothing else.
We're gonna end it here. We got our big finale
next week, which I think Travis will be there. I'm
low chance on Dylan showing up for the finale like Gandalf,
you know, looking to the East on the seventh Day,
but we'll be here nonetheless, wrap up this season and
yeah tell that it should be a good time. So
thanks for joining me, Taylor, and we'll see you next time.
Bye bye bye,