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Speaker 1: What is up? Fellas it goes? I am Damna Valley

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coming at you with the one the only My cert

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of five Fantabulary's co host, mister Grant hues our off

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season look Ahead train rolls onward. We're gonna be focusing

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on the Cleveland Cavaliers in this look at rant before

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we get started. How that go?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to cover the calves here because as they

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were being eliminated, I had some thoughts about them, and

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I'm eager to share them with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's exciting. Let's let's let's not waste any time.

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Then let's dig right into it. Okay, So do you

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need to get those thoughts off before we get into

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their off season vitals?

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Speaker 3: No. I think we'll get to them organically because I

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feel they feel like they might like curtail the discussion

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if I throw them out right now.

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Speaker 2: So let's get through the vitals.

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Speaker 1: So I'll do I'll do the vitals on this one.

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They're five million dollars into the second Apron in part

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because Evan Mobbly won Defensive Player of the Year, so

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his track got bumped up to that thirty percent max.

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That does not include those new deals for Ty Jerome,

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who's an early bird free agent, which basically means they

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can give him one hundred and seventy five percent rays

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off his current salary or one hundred and five percent

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of the league average salary. It'll be one hundred and

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five percent of the league average salary if he sticks

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around because he's just making so little. It also does

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not include Sam Merrill. And I think this is kind

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of a question to start with though. Grant is they

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did duck the tax at the trade deadline while getting

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DeAndre Hunter, which was smart because I think they knew

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that this type of season was coming. But when you

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start to get into okay they've now it's not just

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that they haven't made it out of the second round

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in the past three years. It's that they've won two

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second round games since trading for Donvo Mitchell, which is

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not a lot. They're built in excuses, and I don't

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mean excuses in a derogatory way anyway, like they've been

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dealing with injuries this season included. But when you kind

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of look at this team, do you expect them to

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just be like, well, we're just gonna at least spend

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deep into the second apron for next season.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's the deal, just asn't to illustrate it.

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Speaker 3: What I have, and this from Bobby Marx is that

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if you give tie Jerome for just as an example,

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I'll answer your question, like, four for sixty four is

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about as high as they can go, according to his estimates.

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And if you're adding fourteen million in salary and twenty

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five twenty six all your penalties and stuff, tack another

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eighty million onto that, Like so that's.

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Speaker 2: A lot, just it's a fair amount. I'd say fair

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to middling.

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Speaker 3: So like that's just getting to your question is like, well,

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how far are these guys gonna go with a core

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that like everybody loves and they won sixty four games,

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but it's like two second round wins is still just

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two second round wins. How much more money do you

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dump into this? Or can you spend a little smarter

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and maybe get just as good as results without like

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just without tie Jerome or whatever, like trim and payroll

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a little bit. So I think you are obligable. One,

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you're sort of stuck, like all of the guys that

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make the most money are just not going anywhere. Like

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maybe you consider Jared Allen, but he's a distant fourth

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on the like salary pecking order of Cleveland's top guys.

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But so I think they will continue to be deep

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into the second apron just because, like I think the

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moves you'd make to get meaningful salary reduction are just

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kind of like not realistic and would like anything really

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like salary reducing would make this team way too much

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worse to like to justify it. So yeah, I I

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mean they're in danger of having what they're twenty thirty

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three first frozen, right like if if they don't if

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they're in the second apron again at the end, so

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like they're up against it.

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Speaker 2: It's did the sneak up on you?

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Speaker 3: Because it's like, oh, Phoenix is screwed, and Denver and

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and Milwaukee AND's like all right, Cleveland also has.

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Speaker 1: I'm more so just amazed that it took them this

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long to get here because you look at their it

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just helped that Evan Mobley was on his rookie deal,

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Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland weren't on like Darre's Garten

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still on that first Max deal and he's Darius Garland's

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extension eligible can sign for two years, one hundred and

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twent eight point four million. I would probably offer it,

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but I like, I don't. We normally don't see players

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sign that type of extension because especially when they're his age.

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But I guess that's what I want to ask you

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because this ties into everything. How much do you read

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into this particular postseason when you're trying to figure out

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what to do with this team? Because it's we can say, okay, fine,

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they're gonna be a second Apron team, but is like,

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let's even just say they could lop off Isaacacorro, trade

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him into someone's exception and then just resigned Tyjerome after

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the series that he had against the Pacers. Is that

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something they even want to do? And then it's you know,

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Sam Merrow even like kind of struggling at points in

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that series. So how much do you read into you know,

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what happened in the playoffs and that includes with Darius

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Garland versus no like they were injured again, And how

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much of it if if you lean towards you know,

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last year, you and I were a little bit over

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aggressive with what we were calling for with Cleveland. I

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don't think any of us are gonna be calling for

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that this time, but it does. Yeah, these are small

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sample sizes injuries matter, but it's like that's part of everything.

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Is I think what was also a huge crux of

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their appeal for me is it felt like their depth

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was functional to where it would translate to the playoffs.

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And I think it did at times, but it didn't

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translate like Indiana's depth did as an example. So I'm

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just wondering, if you're running this team or just your

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view of this team, how much, if at all, has

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how the postseason ended influenced you.

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Speaker 3: So this kind of gets into what I was, like,

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my overarching thought is it not a lot because like, look,

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you won sixty four sixty four games, and you lost

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in the second round at least partly because of injury,

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and like maybe who knows, like maybe entirely because of injury,

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just because like Garland was clearly hampered, Mitchell was going

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through it even though he was mostly very productive, mobilely

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had an issue like you can't you can't really tell

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the story of the Cavs season without mentioning key injuries

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to key guys at the worst possible time. Yeah, Like,

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to me, that and that along with like they're sort

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of general like lack of like medium flexibility, Like yeah,

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you can be real flexible if you want to trade

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your stars, but like they're not gonna do that, So

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coupled with their like fairly limited options to change the team,

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I don't view this offseason as like all right, like

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last years as the foil for it, like all right,

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got to make a big change. This doesn't work the

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two bigs and too small, Like we were a long

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way from where we were on Cleveland just a year ago.

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Certainly we are. Maybe the consensus is a long way too,

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So maybe it's anti climactic, but I think you probably

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run this back and with or without the Ti Jeromes

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of the world, because like what this postseason, maybe what

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you can take from this postseason that informs informs your

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decision making is that Ti Jerome was an awesome regular

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season player that was not effective in the postseason, and

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you should not care so much about innings eaters and

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care a lot more about like who can be on

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the floor against Indiana, And we don't have an issue

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with it. And maybe Tie Jerome isn't that guy and

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it's not worth paying him what you'd have to to

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keep him, So it just to me, it just shifts

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the focus a little bit to who are our postseason

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guys and otherwise we're kind of just we're gonna stick

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with the core that we have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with everything you said there, and what

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I thought was actually really cool is I don't know

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if you saw Donovan Mitchell had, but I would call

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some of the more like forceful and passionate comments I've

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seen from a star that lost like pretty handedly against

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the Pacers, where he just I mean, the gist of

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it was we're going to be back, yeah, and he

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apologized he for the city of like we're going to

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be back, and I thought that was really cool. And

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the whole Mitchell to Cleveland I don't mean to be

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I know, we don't necessarily get too romantic when we're

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analyzing this, but the whole Mitchell to Cleveland thing just

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really fucking rules. Because the Calves were not a team

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that was on his primary list, they traded for him

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anyway he stayed. Yeah, and now you're at a point

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where you go through last season and you had some

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idiots like us and like we didn't say trade everybody,

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but we were like, well, maybe you look into trading

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Jared Allen after what happened and they ended up extending him.

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You kept it together, and then now you go through this,

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you just won sixty four games and everyone's expectation was

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that you were going to make the conference finals at least,

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and he comes out of it just saying basically, yeah,

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we messed up. We were injured. That's no excuse like

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we're going to be back. And that's refreshing because I

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do recognize and we talk about a lot windows open

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and shut far more quickly than they normally do. But

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there's also something to if your best players, all of

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whom for the most part, Darius Garland was injured. We

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could maybe have a discussion about Jared Allen, but like

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all of your best players just kind of being in

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sync and wanting to be there and not putting I'll

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put there's pressure on the front office, but now it's

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not coming from your best player. Like I think that

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means a whole lot here.

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Speaker 3: I agree, and I think, like again, to sort of

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romanticize it, the what's the whole thing? Like the spur

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the Dynastics spurs never repeated, you know, they always they

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had an and you're just the gap between the first

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dunkin title and the last one is like whatever fifteen

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years or something ridiculous like that. Like I I as

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I was thinking about, like, okay, what does Cleveland do

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from here as the last you know, seconds of their

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season or ticking away, I did think more about, like

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I wonder if one of the effects of the second

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apron and like very careful spending and whatever is that,

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Like you kind of do have teams that are this

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good that realize, like we can't just keep adding It's

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like not possible. So let's just like, let's not assume

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there's a move we can make that can make us

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better than a sixty four win team, because realistically, there

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just isn't.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like you just.

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Speaker 3: That's about as good as you can be, you know,

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most years, almost any year. So like maybe there's just

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maybe we get like a little bit of a premium

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on continuity, and like maybe we don't freak out every

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time a team that's this good doesn't deliver on these

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huge expectations.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I started thinking maybe there's maybe it's like wishful thinking,

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because it would be nice if we had like more

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continuity and gave a team more than like one or

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two shots to break through. I just I don't know

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if that's what's gonna happen, but it does feel like

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the right course, at least for this team. Just like,

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see if you can win fifty eight games and stay

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a little healthier and you know, like maybe you get

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a break in the post, maybe Indiana's hurt and you

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and you win that series next time it happens, Like,

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I just, it's so hard to be better than the

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Calvs were that I'm like hesitant to suggest they do

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anything you know, consequential, not that they really can.

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Speaker 1: Right And I think, so there are two ways to

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look at it. Let's let's take the Yannest question. First.

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Would you consider so they can trade up to one

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first round pick in two thousand and thirty one or

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twenty and thirty two right now, would you trade Darius Garland,

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Jared Allen and a first round pick for your honest

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attent to coopo if it was available to you.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I I think I probably would. I think, yeah,

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you just you just have to get the you know,

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one of the top three guys in the league.

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Speaker 1: You have to do it. I think you have to

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get it. I don't know that, but I mean, if

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Milwaukee isn't getting its own picks back, it's hard to

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find a package that would make them, like Darius Garland

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kind of a tempo over the future and they could

241
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be competitive. Yeah, maybe you could send Jared Allen in

242
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New Orleans to get back one or both of your

243
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first round picks. If I'm the Cavs though, like I

244
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don't know. I like, I'm not seeking that out because

245
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there are two ways to look at it, because you

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kind of mentioned maybe you're healthier. What I kept coming

247
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back to is, in theory, this team did everything right

248
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during the regular season. It's stars weren't overused, and then

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you get to the playoffs and they're all banged up anyway.

250
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So in my head, I'm like, what's the point of

251
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necessarily preserving that depth if this could just happen anyway, right,

252
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Like giannest Is you really tether, like right now, Okay,

253
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your asset light, but your timeline is still so open

254
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ended because of Garland and Mobiley specifically, and if you

255
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go the Yannis route, you're very much in this truncated

256
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Donovan Mitchell Yanni's window does help that you still have

257
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Evan Mobile, who's super young and amazing. I don't think that.

258
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I don't know. I think you probably would have to

259
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do it. But it's not something I came away from

260
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the playoffs thinking that, oh, the Calves need to do

261
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something on that level.

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Speaker 3: Well, right, And like you mentioned MOBILEI I mean, we've

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been having conversations about this Calv's corps, you know, since

264
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it came together, and like I can distinctly remember us

265
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me saying I think you agreeing, like I think the

266
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way forward or like the best case scenario for this

267
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team is that Evan Mobley is the team's best player, unquestionably,

268
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and like he might be that now, but it's questionable

269
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at least just because Mitchell is, you know, just can

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do the things on offense that you need someone to

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do to win playoff series. But it's not I mean, like,

272
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shouldn't it be the expectation that Mobile is a little

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better next year just based on where he is in

274
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the aging curve?

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Speaker 1: And I don't like you pay attention to the discourse

276
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that's park like that, you know what I mean?

277
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Speaker 3: And like, isn't Garland young enough to take like a

278
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tiny step forward?

279
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Speaker 1: And it was so good there were people I disagree,

280
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Like there are people for a while that had him,

281
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like above Donovan Mitchell on their all NBA ballots, and I.

282
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Speaker 2: Did, I did for a minute.

283
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Speaker 3: It's just I mean, he's really good and could get

284
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better and and mobiley should get better. So like, yeah,

285
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I mean you you know, okay, so the honest trade, yeah,

286
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you probably got to do it. But what if what

287
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if in like two years Mobile's a better player than

288
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Yannis or like three you know, it's we're not that

289
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far away from where like the trajectory lines have hit

290
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right in the in the in the you know, career

291
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arc chart. So like again, so this is why I

292
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didn't want to get to this main point right away,

293
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because we're supposed to talk about their options. But to me,

294
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it's just like I think this core is as good

295
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as it can be realistically, and I think you should

296
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give it another shot, you know. And whether that a

297
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Bolt Hi Jerome or Sam Merril, who can say. But

298
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but the core just needs another crack at it.

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Speaker 1: So what would actually be their needs to you? Where

300
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it's you have to you're gonna look at minimums, like

301
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maybe they're I mean, they have movable salaries, so if

302
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they really wanted to go all in. You could trade

303
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,919
a first round pick salary. And if you're doing something

304
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,639
like that, what are you looking to address?

305
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 3: Well, if it's a trade, then you're it's a little

306
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,200
bit of a different conversation. But like, if you decide

307
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you don't want to pay fourteen plus eighty and penalties

308
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,080
for tie Jerome, you're gonna need a third ball handler,

309
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I think, unless you really think Mobile is going to

310
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take a huge step there to where if one or

311
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the other of Garland or Mitchell's not on the floor,

312
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Mobile's just like, yeah, it's great, We're fine with him,

313
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like bringing the ball up and running a lot of

314
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the offensive sets. So you have to find someone to

315
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replace what Jerome gave you. But like, other than that,

316
00:14:32,519 --> 00:14:34,799
like you the easy answer used to be, well, we

317
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,320
need someone to play the three or you know, undersized four.

318
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It's like DeAndre Hunter's here, that's like that's what he's for.

319
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And you still have Max Struce and maybe a Korro

320
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is someone that you try to flip, but like it

321
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just if it, My answer I guess is just like well,

322
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whoever they don't bring back they need to replace, And

323
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that's like, you know, you're talking six, seventh, eighth, wherever

324
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you think Jerome falls in the hierarchy, like eighth, ninth guy,

325
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something like that.

326
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Speaker 1: I wondering if they would be anything they could do.

327
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:04,120
I agree with everything you said there, but where it's

328
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sort of you're melding two of those three things together,

329
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,519
where it's I think a perfect example would be like

330
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,080
if a Corps and DeAndre Hunter could be the same player,

331
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which would just feel like a lot of needs for them.

332
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:18,600
Or it's can you get someone who's another like a

333
00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:21,519
third ball handler but they're also bigger, like maybe they're

334
00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:23,799
tied your own size, but they're better on defense. That's

335
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,559
a tall order, But I think if you're putting a

336
00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:28,039
first round pick on the table, maybe you could go like,

337
00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:29,600
you're not gonna go out there and address that on

338
00:15:29,639 --> 00:15:32,879
the minimum? Maybe would it's Spencer Dinwity, it's not with you, sure,

339
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,080
but that's not going to be cheaper than tie your

340
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,879
own probably, but that's not going to solve your everything.

341
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And so I still think they could probably hope to

342
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,879
upgrade in those types of spots, But I don't like

343
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a name doesn't spring to mind or be like, oh no,

344
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,559
that's worth it, and you should absolutely do it, and

345
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if they do, it's you know, they're probably they're not

346
00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:52,600
going to be a bit like Herb Jones on this team,

347
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even though at the shooting like that would be incredible,

348
00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:57,240
but hey, guess what, like you're not getting Herb Jones

349
00:15:57,279 --> 00:15:58,200
for one first round pick.

350
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Speaker 3: Probably not, Yeah, especially at his set, Like, Yeah, I

351
00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:04,639
don't know. I think, like, I mean, I I wonder too,

352
00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:07,879
had the Cavs been healthy and Ti Jerome just may

353
00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:12,080
not have played that much, it would I just maybe

354
00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:14,679
he'd maybe maybe you would bring him back then.

355
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

356
00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 3: It's just like the conversations about their needs would be

357
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,879
very different. I think if the core guys had been healthier,

358
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:23,440
because in like Ty Jerome, if you think he got

359
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,960
exposed or whatever, like that would have been minimized because

360
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,360
he just wouldn't have played as much because you could

361
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,039
have leaned harder on Garland for example, who missed you know,

362
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,919
significant time in the in the postseason.

363
00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:36,159
Speaker 1: I do like just to throw names out there so

364
00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:37,919
we're not just saying do nothing. I'm like, I don't know,

365
00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:40,840
what will Torrem Prince still be a minimum player after

366
00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:43,639
this year? Might be kind of interesting. Yeah, as a

367
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,039
trade target. I don't know if he gives you enough

368
00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:47,720
of the ball handling. And I said about gonna like

369
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:49,919
Kean Ellis on this team, maybe just a little bit

370
00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:51,840
too small if you're willing to put a pick on

371
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:54,360
the table, that could be kind of interesting. Mm hmm.

372
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,639
But I honestly, and I hate saying this, but they

373
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,279
might be the one team I say this about there

374
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,159
in the entire look aheads which just like they feel

375
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,160
after the DeAndre Hunter team, like they just feel so

376
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,759
close to complete. I would ask you, though, so if

377
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:08,720
you had the option of if you could get rid

378
00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:11,480
of Isaaca Korro so you bring back to like, who

379
00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:13,319
do you view is more important if it was an

380
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:14,960
either or situation for them.

381
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:16,559
Speaker 2: Between him and Jerome.

382
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:22,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say Jerome probably matters more, But that

383
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,559
gets tricky if you're committing what it might take to

384
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,440
keep him, although like, yeah, I guess you should assume

385
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,680
it's gonna cost you mid level or close to it,

386
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,880
because someone will probably be willing to give him the

387
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,599
mid level.

388
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 1: Even honestly, I don't know. I would go through the

389
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,519
list of teams the other day of who's even gonna

390
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,480
have the mid level and you can get to a

391
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,920
point where it's like twelve mite. But I think more realistically,

392
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,759
if we're including cap space teams and then full non

393
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:51,960
tax payer mid level teams, we're looking at fewer than ten,

394
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,640
probably like eight or six. And then how many of

395
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,519
those teams are just gonna want to like Brooklyn's not

396
00:17:58,599 --> 00:17:59,920
paying I don't fit well. I mean, I they could

397
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,039
a ball, but they're not gonna come and give Ti

398
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,279
Jerome half of their caps. But like here's twenty million

399
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:07,240
dollars like or something. I don't think anyway.

400
00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think what is a Korral?

401
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 3: I think a Koro makes like eleven, So if you

402
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,960
could get Jerome near that number, I think, like he's

403
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,799
a very good third guard right like playoff stuff aside.

404
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,920
I think if you believe that this past season was

405
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,400
like eighty percent real, then he's he's just he's worth

406
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,680
the mid level, probably because he's a guy that can

407
00:18:28,839 --> 00:18:30,799
start on a good team if you need him to.

408
00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:33,480
Probably don't want that for a full season or postseason,

409
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,920
but yeah, if if you could get him at like

410
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,279
the a Coorro rate, then I would just way rather

411
00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:41,279
have Ti Jerome. He feel like Hunter being there means

412
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:43,480
a Korro is kind of like, yeah, he's the great

413
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,279
defender hustle guy, but it's like you're playing him behind

414
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,759
Struce an Hunter essentially in that same role.

415
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:51,279
Speaker 2: So it's like he's the more expendable one of Korro.

416
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,559
Speaker 1: I think anything else on them or any name or

417
00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:56,240
target who would be the most likely player to be

418
00:18:56,279 --> 00:18:56,960
traded for that.

419
00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 3: Well, So like if you do look into this, you

420
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,839
can't say it's seismic because he's the fourth guy. But

421
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,279
if you look at Moving Allen for example, like you're

422
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:09,000
trying to even though we just said it's very hard

423
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,039
to get better than sixty four wins, let's say, well,

424
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,240
we think mobile can play center full time. Doesn't make

425
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:17,000
a whole lot of sense to have a guy who

426
00:19:17,079 --> 00:19:19,480
we think maybe should just be a super high end

427
00:19:19,519 --> 00:19:22,119
backup or like when we need to go too big

428
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,559
kind of kind of option making twenty and then eventually

429
00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:27,279
gets up to like twenty eight and beyond on the

430
00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:30,839
next extension. What do you get, Like, who's out there,

431
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,200
Like we're a Jared at we need Jared Allen to

432
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,480
be our starting center, and we'll give you like a

433
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:37,880
like a wing of some kind, Like I was.

434
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 1: Gonna say I have a prospective trade, there would be

435
00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:43,599
other math would need to be involved or in other teams.

436
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,599
Allen for Jalen Wells and Zach Edy.

437
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 2: Jalen Wells and Zach Edy. Oh man, that's really interesting.

438
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 1: You could say no if it's not actually this is

439
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,680
off the cuff. I did not come in here with

440
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,359
any trade ideas playing.

441
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 3: Well I kind of like that for both because Edie

442
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,839
makes more sense as like, yeah, we're not relying on

443
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,200
him as a full time starter, but man, we can

444
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,000
throw him in there against the right matchups and or

445
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,119
go double big and Wells the same issues with Wells.

446
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 2: Just follow him to Cleveland where it's like.

447
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 3: He's a little small to be guarding threes. But I

448
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,200
mean he's on a dirt cheap deal. So maybe that's

449
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,079
your a Coro upgrade and you can trim a Korro somehow.

450
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,240
From the books, that's a fun trade. If you just

451
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,240
came up with that right off the cuff.

452
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: I'm impressed.

453
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,759
Speaker 1: The other one. I don't think this is enough, but

454
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,279
if I mean, maybe if you could, what would it

455
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:43,440
take for you to get send him to the Lakers,

456
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,400
Like if they sent back they have a first round pick,

457
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,200
in twenty seven, they could send you like his Austin

458
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,880
Reeves and a twenty seven for Allen, Like there'd have

459
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,799
to be more salary if you were getting Dorian Finny

460
00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:57,119
Smith is part of that deal too. I think the

461
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,519
Lakers say no at that point. Yeah, Austin Reeve an

462
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:04,960
expiring contract and the twenty seven first round pick, that's

463
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,839
your third ball handler. Then you have to go out

464
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,400
and find another big unless. I mean, part of the

465
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,039
money coming back could be Jared Vanderbilt, but that contract

466
00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:13,960
is not yeah, not great.

467
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,839
Speaker 3: Right in that scenario, I think the Calves because Reeves

468
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,720
is I don't know, very valuable to them.

469
00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,279
Speaker 2: To the Lakers too. I wonder if if.

470
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: He's redundant in Cleveland like you're if you're playing right, you're.

471
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:28,519
Speaker 2: A luxury third ball handler, like yeah, high luxury.

472
00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:30,039
Speaker 3: So you'd have to almost like if I'm the Lakers,

473
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:32,319
I'm like, you're taking I guess it's Vanderbilt, but it's

474
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,119
like you're taking our worst contract back just because you

475
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:35,519
have to.

476
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, I might. I don't know if I would do

477
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,559
it if I'm cleaning, but like I wouldn't mind having

478
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,440
Vanderbilt if I'm getting Reeves and then I'm also getting

479
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,599
another first round pick. Yeah, I think Jared Allen's super valuable,

480
00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:47,720
but like he that was not his best series against

481
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,839
the Pacer. Is that I don't know that I like

482
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:50,839
that for either team.

483
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 3: No, I don't like it as much as the Memphis one.

484
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,319
And like it's we're not trying to trade Allen. It's

485
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,519
just like, Okay, if you're the Calves and you're trying

486
00:21:57,519 --> 00:22:00,640
to make a meaningful upgrade, you're not trading any of

487
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,480
those other you know, Mobiley, Garland, Mitchell, Like you're just

488
00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:05,319
not gonna trade those guys. So it just almost has

489
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,359
to be Allan if you really want to make a difference.

490
00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:09,519
And we're just sitting here saying, like I'm not even

491
00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:10,680
sure that's the right move.

492
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 1: What would you do Jared Allen for? I mean the Kings.

493
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,880
The Kings wouldn't trade Keegan Murray for Jared Allen, right,

494
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:18,279
I mean.

495
00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:22,039
Speaker 3: They wouldn't trade Keegan Murray for for anybody?

496
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: What about Monk and Kean Ellis for Jared Allen? And

497
00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:28,279
maybe there's a pick need to go out in that one.

498
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,279
Speaker 3: What are Monk and Ellis? I mean that then then

499
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,640
you're talking those are your third and fourth guards.

500
00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:36,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, ke Alas could play some three for you a

501
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:36,720
little bit.

502
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think you're yeah, that's possible. I

503
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:43,799
almost rather have Hunter Hunters a little bigger, maybe a

504
00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:44,359
lot bigger.

505
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: I mean, if Cleveland could duck the second eight, well, no,

506
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,680
that would be like way too the nets would have

507
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,319
to be involved. There'd be really funny if they use

508
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,319
Jared Allen in their first round pick is like the

509
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,000
vehicle through which they acquire Kevin Durant for this team.

510
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:55,799
Would that work for you?

511
00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 2: Good? God? How sure? Let's do it?

512
00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: That? Would you be worried? Though? Could he fit with

513
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,200
Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley and uh Darius Carland? I'm not.

514
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,519
Speaker 3: I mean for the eighteen months you have him, it's

515
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:11,759
gonna be great, and then whatever happens after that happens.

516
00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:17,039
Speaker 1: I'm kind of out of random off the cuff, Jared Well,

517
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:21,680
I mean New Orleans, like, would you give herb Jones

518
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,880
and stuff for or or You're like, no, we have

519
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,240
eaves Musians. Iion, we don't know where we're going. We're

520
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:28,799
not going that.

521
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:30,559
Speaker 3: Rat Well, I don't know if New Orleans knows where

522
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:32,799
it's going full stop. But like, if you're giving up,

523
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,240
don't you in a vacuum? Isn't Herb Jones more valuable

524
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:37,799
than Jared Allen or is it?

525
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: Do you view it the other way?

526
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,799
Speaker 1: It'd be nice to see Herb Jones play some playoff basket.

527
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,079
Speaker 3: Sure, that's not that's not entirely his fault, right, I

528
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:48,480
don't know.

529
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: It's tough because this season for Herb Jones was rough

530
00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:53,559
with the injuries, and yeah, I think it would be close.

531
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:55,799
But if you have, like if New Orleans doesn't really

532
00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:57,960
know what it's doing, you're not gonna I mean like

533
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:00,359
and then also the money would be tough here because

534
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:01,680
there's Herb Jones that you need to come up with

535
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:03,759
another twenty million or something. And that's just you're not

536
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:06,039
taking back to Jante Murray if you're Cleveland that right.

537
00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:10,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I just think like a lot if you're

538
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:12,640
really trying to figure out ways for the Cavs to

539
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,359
get even better, I keep circling back to, like, well,

540
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,119
you just have to reconfigure the team so that so

541
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,839
that Mobley's playing center and instead of Alan, you have

542
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,240
a cheaper like second big for a two big look,

543
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,839
and then just another like big wing slash forward type

544
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,079
like I mean, Herb Jones isn't a big wing, but

545
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,920
like someone like that, you just change the makeup a

546
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,359
little bit.

547
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe if Mobley.

548
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: Is just like yeah, no, he's he's like a full

549
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,720
on anchor. Now he can do all that stuff. Like

550
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:42,960
that's that's the different look you might go for.

551
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: Can I Galaxy brain something?

552
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: Please?

553
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: This is this is we're not checking the framework. I

554
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,200
could make it work if people are interested and give

555
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:52,839
them the exact details of the deal. A three team

556
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,440
trade between Golden State, Brooklyn and Cleveland, where Jared Allen's

557
00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:01,039
up in Golden State, coming is in Brooklyn, and Cam

558
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,000
Johnson is in Cleveland.

559
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,319
Speaker 3: I actually had a thought because as we're recording today,

560
00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:08,799
we'll just pull the curtain back. We're gonna do a

561
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:12,119
Warriors look ahead too. It's like, is there a framework

562
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,640
where Kaminga is part of an Allen acquisition for Golden State.

563
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,920
I hadn't thought about the third team and getting Cam

564
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:18,559
in there.

565
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: That Warriors have to send out picks. Yeah, it scenario

566
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,400
which is four, which is actually kind of wild when

567
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:24,640
you think.

568
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,599
Speaker 2: I was surprised by that too. Yeah that's interesting.

569
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, but is Jared Allen, like the type of big

570
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,440
that you think would work well in Golden State.

571
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean he's better.

572
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: You know, you're not getting the spacing, but like he's

573
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,720
better than Trace Jackson, Davis and Kevon Looney.

574
00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: So if you're if it's like Jonathan Kaminga and too, like,

575
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,480
how many picks are you attaching to Jonathan Aminga to

576
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,279
get Jared Allen? Because I think you could like, is

577
00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:51,759
Cam Johnson for Jared? The first part of this would

578
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:54,960
be from this is the Cleveland podcast? Do you like

579
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:57,319
Cam Johnson on the Cavaliers better than Jared Allen? And

580
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,359
if it's like a scoach less then you also need

581
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,480
to say in Cleveland and something for this deal to work.

582
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,759
Speaker 3: I mean I think that that's what I'm That's kind

583
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:06,160
of the look I'm talking about where it's like you

584
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,160
could argue about whether Cam Johnson's better than Jared Allen,

585
00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:12,279
like you know, just objectively, but if you're trying to

586
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,559
change the calves in a way that's like maybe we're

587
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:17,640
more playoff fit this way. I think Johnson would be

588
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,279
someone that could could get you there, Like he's he's

589
00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:23,759
not maybe he's exactly as good as Jared Allen, but

590
00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:27,000
like he's different, Like he makes the team different offensively

591
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,519
principally because you really can be a full five out

592
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:32,559
without giving up too much size. Like your rebounding is

593
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:34,319
gonna be a problem, because.

594
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: It's also a problem with the two bags, right.

595
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,799
Speaker 3: Johnson's not a good rebounder, and if you're swapping out

596
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440
your best rebounder for him or like that, or maybe

597
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,160
you know, maybe that's mobile, but a good rebounder for him,

598
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,000
that's that's gonna accentuate something that's already like pretty weak. Right,

599
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:51,240
So that's the other thing is like if the calves

600
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,599
are gonna get better, they're gonna give it back somewhere else. Probably,

601
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,480
Like if you're talking about a big trade so unbalanced,

602
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,680
maybe you're just different and that matters.

603
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you still believe? And I think

604
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,480
this would be the good wrap up because I'm I'm

605
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:07,720
with you. So we went through this exercise. The Cam

606
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,240
Johnson one's super interesting. I don't know if you liked

607
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:12,839
the Memphis trade I pitched that's like leaning so far

608
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,920
into just young guys that I would that wud be

609
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,079
a little hesitant. We would run it back, but like

610
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,000
do you still believe if they were gonna move Jared Allen,

611
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,279
who of the core four, if they would move, any

612
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,079
of them, does feel like the most likely to go.

613
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,519
Do you still believe that you can approximate like good

614
00:27:27,599 --> 00:27:30,960
value in center on the cheap. Whereas because all the

615
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,240
trades we kind of talked about, with the exception that

616
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,920
the Memphis one, you're getting Zach Edie, But like, all right,

617
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,279
I would love to know who's the other big or

618
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:40,319
two bigs that are in their rotation at that point.

619
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: I think I still think that like capable backup center play,

620
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:49,119
which is what you would be talking about. I think

621
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,920
if you're trading Alan like as a need for Cleveland

622
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,720
because you're not, the whole idea is like Mobile's the center.

623
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:58,079
I think it's still easier at center to get a

624
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,640
minimum guy or close to it, as like a good

625
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:04,160
enough backup who could play in two big looks than

626
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,680
it is to get like we need a wing or

627
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,359
we need a ball, like you just those guys just

628
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,279
aren't you know right, you don't run into it. It's

629
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,200
uncommon that like Gary Trent Junior and like Torrian Prince

630
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,920
or like Malik Beasley signed for super like those guys

631
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,960
are the exceptions, and even they aren't like really what

632
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,519
we're talking about for the Cavs. So yeah, I mean

633
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:22,680
that's still the case.

634
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Right.

635
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,079
Speaker 3: We haven't swung the pendulum, hasn't gone all the way

636
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:28,119
back on centers where like suddenly it's not the easiest

637
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,440
position to replace cheaply.

638
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you, and I think Bismack beyondbo exists.

639
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,359
So it's just as fo sure. I mean, honestly, I

640
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,920
thought I had what we were going through. This is

641
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,400
what if they because you could probably duck the second

642
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,279
apron if you're getting rid of if you're not bringing

643
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,640
back tydromar Merril's like what if brook Lopez was just like, hey,

644
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,160
I'll sign for the mini mL E or even the minimum. Now,

645
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,720
I mean then it's like, okay, that's a different type

646
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,599
of big from Jared Allen. I'll make that clear. But

647
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,200
uh yeah, do you have anything else on this team?

648
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,359
Are you ready to take us out of here?

649
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: Now?

650
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:55,599
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it.

651
00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: What I would add and I think we agree on,

652
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,000
is like sixty four wins is very good. You should

653
00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:02,839
just kind of see if you can do that again

654
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,720
and then not be hurt fair enough. Like that, that's

655
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:07,440
our that's our cutting analysis.

656
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: If I'm Kobe Altman, the most extreme thing I'm looking

657
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,160
at would be, is it like, can we bring back

658
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,279
Ti Jerome when we need to lop off salary elsewhere?

659
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,759
Or is it should we put our first round pick

660
00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:20,160
on the table, attach it to salary and try and

661
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,640
take like not bring in another star. But it's not

662
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:25,160
trading the core for it's trying to augment them yet again.

663
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: Scientias Jones for the minimum something like that, he's a

664
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:28,480
free agurent.

665
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:29,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

666
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: Let Cavs fans especially, let us know what you think.

667
00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:34,400
Let us know how comfortable you are with with standing

668
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,000
pat because it's easy for us to say we don't

669
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,000
have any skin in the game, but.

670
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: I feel like that's the right call. Be interested to

671
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,400
hear counter opinions.

672
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: Wherever you're listening to this or watching this rate review, subscribe,

673
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,319
leave us some comments on YouTube, join our discord.

674
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: At least for that on YouTube.

675
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,039
Speaker 3: Podcast for tell your friends, Tell your enemies shouts, Frank

676
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:51,519
nol Kin apologies, Jared Allen