Speaker 1: We're back on the Drive with ESPN's Dave mcminnimon joining
Speaker 1: us for today's NBA Daily Assist Special. Thanks to Timmy
Speaker 1: Good Time, Bon Temps for stopping by last segment Live
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma City. You know, Porter, I was thinking as
Speaker 1: we were talking with Tim, I'm so impressed at the
Speaker 1: depth of talent with ESPN's NBA people. I mean, we
Speaker 1: got Bon Temps, we got McMahon, we got wind Horse,
Speaker 1: we got Malika, we got Shane, we got Legs so good,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, you know, we've got Jay Reynolds,
Speaker 1: We've got Jeremy Wu, We've got Clinton Yates, We've got
Speaker 1: Chris Herring. Like their depth, it's top heavy, but at
Speaker 1: the top it's really good. Oh yeah, Oh there's a
Speaker 1: well you mentioned a dozen guys. At least I could
Speaker 1: I could keep couldn't even use them.
Speaker 2: I could keep going.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's remarkable how many talented people they
Speaker 1: have at ESPN breaking down the NBA. Our next guest,
Speaker 1: Dave mcminnimon, live in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: Oh, Dave, how are you.
Speaker 3: Well? I'm not in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: He got out of it.
Speaker 3: I guess I didn't make that top twelve, I guess,
Speaker 3: so you know, I'm hanging back in LA until Games
Speaker 3: three and four in Indiana.
Speaker 2: How did you pull that off?
Speaker 1: I was praying you were in like a lakina in
Speaker 1: eating Jimmy John's in Oklahoma City or something.
Speaker 2: How'd you pull it off?
Speaker 3: There was to not bore your listeners. There was some
Speaker 3: reporting that needed to happen out here. So I am
Speaker 3: here and then I will go on Monday to Indianapolis,
Speaker 3: go to the heartland of America and see where the
Speaker 3: series stands there. Hopefully we have at Lisa split at
Speaker 3: that point.
Speaker 2: Let me guess will Lebron opt in or opt out?
Speaker 2: Nobody knows.
Speaker 3: I really I just saw McMahon posting that bon tempst
Speaker 3: is zipping around town on a scooter, and I decided
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be part of that.
Speaker 2: You know, okay.
Speaker 3: See, I think bird people they call them birds, these
Speaker 3: scooters out here, they are like the lowest form of humanity.
Speaker 3: And the fact that Timbonteps would engage in that while
Speaker 3: a visitor in okay See is very disappointing.
Speaker 1: That may have been the best take you've ever had
Speaker 1: on the show, because I am completely with you.
Speaker 2: Dave all right, let's not bury the lead. Let's start
Speaker 2: with the local stuff.
Speaker 1: As Austin Ainge has been hired as the president of
Speaker 1: basketball Operations for the Utah Jazz. During his press press
Speaker 1: conference media availability, Ryan Smith himself said that Austin is
Speaker 1: now calling the shots. He said, it's his show. He's
Speaker 1: the loudest voice in the front office. Meeting Justin Zannik,
Speaker 1: the general manager, now reports to Austin and Austin's dad,
Speaker 1: Danny Ainge, the CEO, also reports now to Austin, his son,
Speaker 1: which is going to be an interesting dynamic. We'll see
Speaker 1: how it plays out. But I don't know how well
Speaker 1: you know Austin, if at all. Just wanted to get
Speaker 1: your thoughts on what the Jazz decided to do reshuffling
Speaker 1: the front office out here.
Speaker 3: Actually got to know him a little bit. This past year.
Speaker 3: I did a story looking back at the Jason Tatum
Speaker 3: diraft and how he wanted to be a Laker and
Speaker 3: the Lakers never worked him out. And I spoke to
Speaker 3: Austin for that story, and I actually very much enjoyed
Speaker 3: kind of his personality, you know, he The crux of
Speaker 3: the story was, well, Jason Tatum has shifted the balance
Speaker 3: in terms of the championship chase between the Lakers and
Speaker 3: the Celtics, and Austin's line was, well, can we even
Speaker 3: say that there are only one championship away anyway? Since
Speaker 3: when are the people Los Angeles celebrating anything? One in Minneapolis?
Speaker 3: So I enjoyed that he had that little singer that
Speaker 3: he provided going deep into the pettiness of the Lakers
Speaker 3: Celtics rivalry. But obviously his reputation, of course is that
Speaker 3: he's the son of Danny Ainge, but that he's made
Speaker 3: shrewd moves and been very smart about creating the pipeline
Speaker 3: of the you know, the main red clause system with
Speaker 3: the Celtics and using that in order to replenish talent
Speaker 3: around the margins. And I certainly think he would be
Speaker 3: a wonderful candidate if his name was Austin Jackson. It
Speaker 3: just happens to be that he learned from one of
Speaker 3: the best executives that we've seen, who's his father. And
Speaker 3: I think it's a very good hire by the Jazz,
Speaker 3: you know, by my initial thought, and you know, I'll
Speaker 3: have to reach out to Justin. Hopefully everything's okay with
Speaker 3: him health wise, and this is this isn't a move
Speaker 3: that was necessitated by the fact that Justin's going through
Speaker 3: the health stuff that he has been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I continue to say, they are
Speaker 1: only thirty GM jobs, So if you have one, you
Speaker 1: love it them out or what I just you know,
Speaker 1: Justin at one point was thought to be high speed
Speaker 1: ahead to be the main decision maker in Milwaukee.
Speaker 2: That went to Horst.
Speaker 1: And then when Dennis Lindsay left here, I think most
Speaker 1: of us included myself, figured the show was now XANAX
Speaker 1: and it wasn't then and it isn't now. I just
Speaker 1: wonder if at some point, and your point about his
Speaker 1: health probably is the bottom line, because Ryan and Ashley
Speaker 1: in the organization really rallied behind him, and I'm told
Speaker 1: he loves living here and has lived here for quite
Speaker 1: some time. You just have to wonder if a guy
Speaker 1: is sharp and well respected and it is liked as
Speaker 1: jay Z at some point just wants to be the
Speaker 1: guy that calls the shots to build a roster, or
Speaker 1: maybe he's fine where his feet are at.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, generally, when teams are kind of a
Speaker 3: healthy organism, there is an alignment between ownership coaching staff
Speaker 3: in the front office. In this case, you know, from
Speaker 3: just looking at it, I still view this to be
Speaker 3: a healthy situation. And you know it so long as
Speaker 3: you believe in your ownership, which it appears. You know,
Speaker 3: Ryan Smith is someone who's kind of done everything right
Speaker 3: since taking over that franchise. You can look at it
Speaker 3: like we're adding another smart person to the room, versus
Speaker 3: I need to watch my back.
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, And that's why every time I've
Speaker 1: discussed it, I prefaced it with I honestly don't know,
Speaker 1: and we'll see how they work in lockstep together. All
Speaker 1: front offices have multiple voices, you know. We were texting
Speaker 1: back and forth about this. One thing that Austin did
Speaker 1: say when asked about his philosophy on tanking is we
Speaker 1: will not do that this year or you will not
Speaker 1: see that this year.
Speaker 2: It was interesting.
Speaker 1: So vontep's last segment, I presented the scenario of and
Speaker 1: the Jazz probably going to try to move off of
Speaker 1: Clarkson good luck. They'll probably try to move off of
Speaker 1: Collins and Sexton as well, and maybe they can now
Speaker 1: because all those contracts move into and they'll be expired,
Speaker 1: be exped deals this year in a way they haven't
Speaker 1: been prior to. But if we just operate off the
Speaker 1: roster they have with the addition of the number five
Speaker 1: pick and maybe the number twenty one pick, maybe they
Speaker 1: find a couple of players in the second round they like.
Speaker 1: And you know, a guy like Lowry Markin and actually
Speaker 1: plays seventy to seventy five games, and a guy like
Speaker 1: Walker Kessler actually plays sixty five to seventy games and
Speaker 1: doesn't shoot seven threes in an insulting way to be
Speaker 1: unserious about competing along with some of the other players
Speaker 1: that have shown some signs. I'm not saying I see
Speaker 1: a team that wins forty forty five games and sniffs
Speaker 1: the play in, but I'm seeing a team that maybe
Speaker 1: wins thirty thirty five and that puts them Dave right
Speaker 1: in this perilous situation where if they don't finish in
Speaker 1: the top eight, that pick goes to the team that
Speaker 1: I think is about to.
Speaker 2: Win the World Championship.
Speaker 1: And if we're sitting here next spring and the Jazz
Speaker 1: have won thirty two games and Mark Tatum pulls out
Speaker 1: the envelope at nine and it's the Jazz that is
Speaker 1: an epic step in the wrong direction. So how do
Speaker 1: you think they can to dance this dance if they're
Speaker 1: not going to manipulate minutes, if they're not going to
Speaker 1: tank with the idea of also holding onto that pick,
Speaker 1: what do you think that looks like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean listen, I texted you and Porter having
Speaker 3: seen some clips from the Intrusty press conference for Austin
Speaker 3: Age and him declaring, we're not going to tank. It
Speaker 3: just it doesn't make sense. Now, there is a lesson
Speaker 3: to be learned that of course need everyone involved, fans included,
Speaker 3: and those press conferences generally are for messagers to be
Speaker 3: heard by the fans that the lottery is a lottery
Speaker 3: and there's no direct correlation between your spot in the
Speaker 3: standings and the pick that you're guaranteed to get, and
Speaker 3: so there's a gamble there, and perhaps some of that
Speaker 3: messaging was a I recognize that this was a gut
Speaker 3: punch to go through the year that we just had
Speaker 3: and not end up with a top three pick, and
Speaker 3: so I'm not going to say right now that this
Speaker 3: is our plan for the next year. But we're also
Speaker 3: aware that teams quote unquote stealth tank and when we
Speaker 3: talk about a Western conference is stacked as as is.
Speaker 3: I think we talked about this last week, the Chris
Speaker 3: Finch comment that there's to be thirteen teams in the
Speaker 3: West buying for the playoffs. If you're one of the
Speaker 3: two teams that aren't, and the Jazz are one of
Speaker 3: the two teams that aren't, it behooves you to be
Speaker 3: closer to the bottom than closer to the middle. It
Speaker 3: just does. And if they are able to be sellers
Speaker 3: and get off some of those contracts that you suggested,
Speaker 3: that's exactly what they will be. They will be taking
Speaker 3: back young players and draft picks in order to move
Speaker 3: off of Clarkston, Sexton Collins. As you mentioned, that would
Speaker 3: be the preferred way to do so. Again, saying something
Speaker 3: in June can very much look a lot different when
Speaker 3: we start playing games in the second half of the
Speaker 3: season from January through April.
Speaker 1: And I think it probably means Dave that they will
Speaker 1: kick the tires on moving off of marketing. Who is
Speaker 1: really good and has been really good here and likes
Speaker 1: living here, And as you know, that's an important thing
Speaker 1: around here to have a really good player that wants
Speaker 1: to stay here. But he might just be too good
Speaker 1: to fit into this plan this year of stealth tanking
Speaker 1: or whatever calling it. And also I'm laughing as I
Speaker 1: say a twenty eight year old might be too old
Speaker 1: for the timeline. But we were talking about this with Bontemps,
Speaker 1: like the Golden State dual timeline thing that turned out
Speaker 1: to be a little clunky. So there are a lot
Speaker 1: of big names that could be on the move. Do
Speaker 1: you think Lowry Marketing could be one of them?
Speaker 2: Certainly could be.
Speaker 3: And again, he has really acquitted himself well to that organization.
Speaker 3: An All Star has proven to be like a reliable player.
Speaker 3: Obviously he needs to play more than whatever forty seven
Speaker 3: games like he did last year, but when he's on
Speaker 3: the court, he produces a guy like that could fit
Speaker 3: into a variety of teams that are in contention, so
Speaker 3: that there would be value there. I certainly believe all that.
Speaker 3: At the same time, then what is kind of the
Speaker 3: product you're selling? And again, if they truly believe in
Speaker 3: as a collier in Kathy George Kessler, you know, being
Speaker 3: a core to move forward with, than sure. If they
Speaker 3: don't or are unsure, it's tough to move on from.
Speaker 3: You know, a bird in the hand for two in
Speaker 3: the bush in this case, because he is a very
Speaker 3: very good player who seems to be very content being,
Speaker 3: you know, the best player of the jazz franchise.
Speaker 1: All right, moving off the jazz stuff, let's get over
Speaker 1: to what Jim Dolan and his Kazoo decided to do
Speaker 1: this week with their head coach, you know, Dave. One
Speaker 1: of the things that kind of irritates me about the
Speaker 1: media stuff and how many different voices there are or
Speaker 1: how many people like after the fact, like yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally saw this coming, you know this that or whatever,
Speaker 1: and look maybe you did.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think this is and I'm biased.
Speaker 1: You know, Tom was Jeff's assistant back in the nineties,
Speaker 1: so I very like, very much like and respect the
Speaker 1: man outside of him being a coach who I think
Speaker 1: has done a remarkable job there. I guess the way
Speaker 1: I'll post it to you is, what's your understanding of
Speaker 1: why this decision was made. Is it in a vacuum
Speaker 1: because of what happened against Indiana? Is it player driven
Speaker 1: with Cat behind the scenes. Is it an owner who's
Speaker 1: more interested to being a front man for a hacky
Speaker 1: band than anything else, Like what exactly went into this
Speaker 1: decision as far as high you understand it.
Speaker 3: Listen, the knicks made or had I should say, so,
Speaker 3: I can't say with certainty that they made him do this,
Speaker 3: but they had Leon Rose own this decision with the statement.
Speaker 3: In the statement, however, it goes out of his way.
Speaker 3: Leon Rose, the president of besqu vi Oberrations, goes out
Speaker 3: of his way to phrase Tom Thibodeaux and say that
Speaker 3: he's part of our family and always will be. To me,
Speaker 3: that sounds like the statement of someone who wink wink
Speaker 3: wants people to be to know that it was not
Speaker 3: his idea. And I do believe that Leon Rose does
Speaker 3: have autonomy over the players. So then that would make
Speaker 3: me believe it's not a player driven decision, that this
Speaker 3: was about James Dolan, the owner, and that if you
Speaker 3: want to talk about head scratching moves, well that is
Speaker 3: the mo of what James Dolan has done since being
Speaker 3: in charge of that franchise. And so that's where it
Speaker 3: makes most sense. When something doesn't make sense, you want
Speaker 3: to have it make sense. Look at James Dolan and
Speaker 3: beyond that, certainly, I think the tipping point that would
Speaker 3: have made it hard for Leon Rose to defend him,
Speaker 3: and to you know, step in front of any impetus
Speaker 3: from Dolan is the fact that he benched Cat in
Speaker 3: Game two of these conference finals. You know, it's a
Speaker 3: guy that you traded for. He's perhaps as great as
Speaker 3: as Jenn Brunson is. He's perhaps your most talented player.
Speaker 3: And I spoke to someone who was on the Minnesota
Speaker 3: staff when Bibbs coached Kat back then and said, oh, man,
Speaker 3: as soon as I saw him in Ben's cat, I
Speaker 3: knew this could be a problem, because that's what happened
Speaker 3: back in the day. There was that one game play
Speaker 3: in game between Minnesota and Denver was before the Plane
Speaker 3: Tournament was official. They just happened to be that season
Speaker 3: where it was the last game of the year that
Speaker 3: would determine whether the Nuggets or the Wolves get in
Speaker 3: in the fourth quarter and crunched down of that game,
Speaker 3: Tibbeto also benched Kat in favor of TODDH. Gibson. And
Speaker 3: you know, the person I spoke to who was familiar
Speaker 3: with that Wolves team said, as soon as I saw
Speaker 3: that happened, I thought that would be a problem. However,
Speaker 3: I supposed to like another league exec who said, listen,
Speaker 3: I heard whispers about Thibeteau and whether it just how
Speaker 3: high the team was on him over the years, and
Speaker 3: I was still shocked and surprised to see that decision
Speaker 3: made after the run they just had. So I think
Speaker 3: my takeaway is that NBA coaching is no longer merit based.
Speaker 3: It just isn't. It is at the way of the owner.
Speaker 3: That's why good for the Coaches Association that everything is
Speaker 3: guaranteed money. And you could say, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 3: why would they do this. Why is going to give
Speaker 3: a guy a three year, thirty million dollar extension. He
Speaker 3: gets to walk out the door with that, He gets
Speaker 3: to walk out the door with that, because you took
Speaker 3: away his dignity. You know, listen, I was. I still
Speaker 3: think that Michael mulone decision. You know, good for David
Speaker 3: Adelman to get that team to the second round of
Speaker 3: the playoffs and force okay see to a game seven.
Speaker 3: But I think if you have Clint State playoff spot
Speaker 3: as the coach of a team, you should be guaranteed
Speaker 3: the chance to coach that team in the playoffs, barring
Speaker 3: anything off the court that would be untoward and perhaps
Speaker 3: invoke a moral torpitude clause like I think it's out
Speaker 3: of control right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some good points in there. I was thinking about
Speaker 2: this today.
Speaker 1: Is it a sign or maybe it has been a sign,
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm just sload of the uptake here, whether
Speaker 1: it's Michael Malone or even Taylor Jenkins who's younger but
Speaker 1: appears to be a little bit more of an old
Speaker 1: school guy, and Tom is as old school as they come.
Speaker 1: Is it a sign that the job description has changed
Speaker 1: where it's more about your And look, I'm arguing with
Speaker 1: myself as I asked you this question. It's always been
Speaker 1: about managing egos, and relationships have always been a part
Speaker 1: of it. But the days of Greg Popovich and Jerry
Speaker 1: Sloan and you know, some of these old school guys
Speaker 1: that are just more about like results based business approaches
Speaker 1: as opposed to coddle these young stars.
Speaker 2: Is that approach simply just out the window now?
Speaker 3: I think it's harder and harder to do because you
Speaker 3: have to establish yourself to be able to do that.
Speaker 3: So if you're a young coach coming in, you know
Speaker 3: one thing is that a lot of times the front
Speaker 3: offices these days are heavy handed in allowing that new
Speaker 3: coach to pick their staff, and so from the very
Speaker 3: beginning there undercut in terms of having power when they
Speaker 3: first step into the organization, it's not even their decision
Speaker 3: who's going to work for them, and then it only
Speaker 3: extrapolates from there. And the initial reporting that Scham's Johnny
Speaker 3: has shared on the ESPN that the Knicks wants someone
Speaker 3: who is adaptable and someone who's been more willing to
Speaker 3: play their bench. That doesn't sound like the resume of
Speaker 3: someone who is established, because established guys say no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I know what I'm doing. Back out of my kitchen,
Speaker 3: let me cook. A guy who is just happy to
Speaker 3: get the opportunity kind of has no choice but to
Speaker 3: listen to the front office, to the analytic walks, whatever
Speaker 3: it may be, in order to take that input and
Speaker 3: have it affect the way they coach. And so you know,
Speaker 3: I am not reporting this name, but you know, considering
Speaker 3: the way the Phoenix hiring when with Johnny Bryant and
Speaker 3: Jordan not being the two final s, Jordan not getting hired,
Speaker 3: in Johnny Bryant having history with the Knicks organization, I
Speaker 3: am very curious to see if someone like him is
Speaker 3: the guy who gets the job, because that would be
Speaker 3: the type of person that would kind of have to
Speaker 3: play the bench and have to be less rigid because
Speaker 3: there is the idea of well, I am just fortunate
Speaker 3: to have this job.
Speaker 1: Isn't it only fair to point out that there are
Speaker 1: six and a half maybe seven good players on the roster, Like,
Speaker 1: if you want your coach to play your bench, maybe
Speaker 1: don't have campaign Landry Shammitt in a precious at you
Speaker 1: as three of the four best options off the bench.
Speaker 2: This is not a deep roster, Dave.
Speaker 3: I agree with you completely, But that would require a
Speaker 3: front office to point the fingers themselves, which that happens
Speaker 3: about as often as I get through a radio appearance
Speaker 3: with you without trying to talk trash on one of
Speaker 3: my ESPN colleagues is literally never.
Speaker 1: All right, We'll end with a thought on the finals.
Speaker 1: You know, Initially I was like, Yeah, this doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like it's going to be close. And then I started
Speaker 1: digging into some of the stuff about the pace and
Speaker 1: the rebound percentage and free throws, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: now I think it's even more of a mismatch.
Speaker 2: It's just like everything.
Speaker 1: Indiana can do well, Oklahoma City can also do those
Speaker 1: things well. I feel like Adam. I respect for Rick Carlisle.
Speaker 1: I'll give them a game and say it's not as sweet.
Speaker 1: But how do you think this goes down? Day before
Speaker 1: I set you loose?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I picked okay See in six as some of
Speaker 3: that was just hoping that we'd get a six game
Speaker 3: series after two to five game series the last two years.
Speaker 3: But as I've looked into, you know, reading materials and
Speaker 3: some of the stat packs we've been sharing, it, YESBN,
Speaker 3: Like there's two numbers that completely are jumping out off
Speaker 3: the page to me. One, the Pacers have excuse me,
Speaker 3: the thunder have forty seven wins this year by fifteen
Speaker 3: points or more between the regular season and the playoffs.
Speaker 3: It's the most all time NBA history. So that would
Speaker 3: suggest that we may not get close games because they're
Speaker 3: going to lead by enough so it's not even a
Speaker 3: question in the fourth quarter. And then the second thing
Speaker 3: with okay See having home court advantage, they are winning
Speaker 3: home playoff games this postseason run by an average of
Speaker 3: twenty five and a half points per game, So like
Speaker 3: it's blowout. So the only way we get a good
Speaker 3: series in my is Indy can split the first two.
Speaker 3: Those two numbers that I just share with you would
Speaker 3: suggests that that's very unlikely, and so if it ends
Speaker 3: up being too okay, See, yeah, I think we're probably
Speaker 3: going five.
Speaker 1: All right, my guy, Well, congratulations on manipulating the system
Speaker 1: so you could remain in southern California for another few
Speaker 1: days but enjoy the finals.
Speaker 2: Thanks for the time and safe travels.
Speaker 3: But okay, thanks bets, doctor ship.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: The Great Dave mcminnimon covers the NBA for ESPN. Get
Speaker 1: them on Twitter at mc ten is where you find them.
Speaker 1: Dave stops by today courtesy if I were good friends
Speaker 1: at IFA Country Store. Summer vacations in warmer weather just
Speaker 1: beyond the horizon. As the days grow longer and brightly
Speaker 1: colored flowers begin making their appearance, it's time to start
Speaker 1: planning and applying Step two of I Phase four plus
Speaker 1: annual long care Program. It's designed with a blend of
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Speaker 1: and IFA dot co op tip off tonight. Game one
Speaker 1: of the NBA Finals featuring Oklahoma City and the Indiana Pacers,
Speaker 1: is at six thirty PM.
Speaker 2: Mountain time.
Speaker 1: It's on ABC, and of course the radio coverage can
Speaker 1: be found right here after we say goodnight on ESPN
Speaker 1: seven hundred