Speaker 1: Charlotte's great because that's where my house is. I'm in Charlotte,
I mean, I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go, what part of Charlotte are you in?
Speaker 1: I live in mint Hill.
Speaker 3: I'm actually yes, I teach at Seuth Piedmont Community College.
I'm a public speaking instructor and film instructor. But yeah,
I live in min Hill.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, Oh my god, that's just right down
forty five for me. I just get on Providence Road
and just I head right into min Hill like that fast.
Speaker 1: Wow. That's great. Wow.
Speaker 4: So so I mean the but how come I've never
seen you at our movie premieres then? Or have you
been here and I just didn't know it?
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good question. I you know, I
do say.
Speaker 3: We my wife and I we have our we have
one son and he's in college now. But we were
like pretty insular, like I did like a lot of conventions,
a lot of premieres till he was born. And then
after he was born, we didn't do much for about
eighteen years and then I'm getting back into it.
Speaker 4: So that is so awesome. So I should expect to
see you on the guest list then absolutely, you know,
you do something here John. That really what I embraced it,
And the reason why I embraced it is because I
believe that that period between two thousand and two thousand
and nine in Hollywood when it comes to horror films,
that was a game changing. It was almost like they
had to do something in order to survive because all
of a sudden, the saw movies and everything, they weren't
like Jason and Michael and Freddy. A whole new evolution
was starting to happen.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Well, I think your feeling on that
is one hundred percent correct. That well, a couple of.
Speaker 3: Things, right. We had a world altering event in September
of two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: Yep, you just said Mber eleven.
Speaker 3: And so horror couldn't stay in that light but smart
vein of scream, urban legend, you know, the sort of
neo slashers. Those were light, amusing, but not terribly substantial.
And then our lives changed and we weren't looking for irony,
you know, and so that changed. But what also changed horror,
I think you're exactly right. It's the in that decade
we began moving towards where we had cell phones and
things like that. And so that's like our technology was
changing too. You know, cameras were cheaper, people had cell phones,
people had cameras on their fronts. So like all the
old paradigms, we're having to be updated to sort of
make sense and tap into what is scaring audiences now,
because that's the only way horror thrives. It's like if
you go back and listen. I love the old horror movies,
but you know, you go back and you watch Bell Legotia,
he's great. You watch Dracula and or you watch Frank
Stin Forstcraft. Those are great movies, but they don't scarce
on the same war because.
Speaker 1: We're not living in that time.
Speaker 3: But like, the only way horror movies are ever successful
in the first place is if they like embody our
horrors of now, right, So I don't know if that's
what you're thinking, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, absolutely, it absolutely is.
Speaker 4: And one of the things that you know, because you
brought up nine to eleven and I and I remember
during nine to eleven when we were watching the endless
amounts of news, they kept saying, this is like.
Speaker 2: A movie, this is like a movie.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what today's stories when it comes to
murder and crime are just like another horror movie. And
it's like when I go to the movie, it's like, oh,
I just read about this, you know it didn't this
just happen in Baltimore? And I mean, I mean it's
it just seems to emulate real life, or it's ahead
of real life, and then we catch up.
Speaker 1: Right, That's what I think.
Speaker 3: I always think, you know, our films somehow, horror films,
somehow this way of being like the canary and the coal,
you know, they figure out and those are the ones
that are successful. I figured out, like what's scaring us now?
And then they become like that zeitgeist movie, like something
like The Blair Witch Project or something Cloverfield or what
have you know, something that like captures the moment, and
it's like you think, how did they do it? Because
they were almost they were ahead of the moment, right,
It's you know, how is that possible? But like, I
think that's one of the great things about horror movies
is they sort of tap into whatever you know in
the water that we're not even aware we're imbibing yet.
And then we watched the movie and we realized, yeah,
we're showering in this dude.
Speaker 1: Right, you know.
Speaker 3: This is embodying our time, I think, And you can
talk about lots of different movies through history that have
done that, like you know, Georgia Maro's Dawn of the
Dead in a.
Speaker 1: Shopping mall right, you know, at the Age of Malls right.
Speaker 3: Clover Field, you know, capturing that or mofman prophecies, capturing
like the idea of a major societal like disaster unfolding
before our eyes with you know, people filming them. Right.
Speaker 4: Soah, do you think though, that we've changed from that
that era even in two thousand to two thousand and nine,
to where nowadays, I mean we want that binge watching
horror kind of experience.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you know.
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's one of those things where it's like, God,
we could have had this as a series and I
would have loved to have been scared every week at
this same time.
Speaker 1: I know what you mean. And like I've written a
book about the X Files because I love the X File.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I enjoy The Walking Dead. I do
like horror as a as a series component. I do
wonder you know, this is one of those things that
keeps me, you know, up at nights when I think
about writing and horror movies, and I think, you know,
right now, all of the walls are falling down in
sort of our entertainment as far as like what is
a movie?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: If I were to write horror films of the twenty twenties,
is like, is what's on Netflix to movie?
Speaker 1: Or is it a series? Or is it a limited right? Right?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like all of a sudden, like our definitions are
changing for these entertainments. If there's not a theatrical experience,
is it a movie, right? Or is it something else?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: So even that idea of like definition is changing, I
think is very much like of the moment and what's
happening in the twenty twenties.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: You bring up a very interesting point about a lot
of these theatrical movies in the way that they rely
also on the scare that seems to be their big
little crutch. Or basically the hook of the song is
that if I if I can create a scare moment,
I've got him for the rest of.
Speaker 3: The movie, absolutely absolutely, And how that scare arises, I'll
never forget.
Speaker 1: I got to talk to the I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: I got to talk to the composer of the score
for Evil Dead and he said, oh, he said, you know, John,
it's an algebraic equation how we could do a jump scare.
And he taught me about it about I said, you know,
he said, it's not what you see. It's all about
the music and how you diminish the volume and then
at the right moment bring the volume away up. He said,
you know, we all know how to do it, and
you know things like that, and I think, yeah, yeah,
And in the theater when we're watching and we're all
sharing that experience, you know that moment is so magnified.
But it's different in streaming because like you can pause
the movie and go to.
Speaker 1: The bathroom and come back yep.
Speaker 3: And what if somebody you know, is on their phone
and like the jump scare comes and goes.
Speaker 1: And you miss it.
Speaker 3: Right, It's like, h it didn't work for me there,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's horror movies, you know, are really out of crossroads,
I think in terms of how they operate. So are
they going to delve more into deeper, darker material? But
you know, not not have the jump scares, but just
be more horrific in general.
Speaker 1: You know, the jump scare part of it.
Speaker 3: You know, to me, that's like the campfire aspect of
Harm's like we like to be scared together, right, and
you know there's a ghost story around the campfire and
that the storyteller raises his voice and we all jump,
you know, like, are we going to lose that part?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Please do not move. There's more with John Kenneth Muir
coming up next, the name of the book Horror Movies
two thousand to two thousand and nine. We're back with
John Kenneth Muir. You've run it up twice now with
the smartphone or the cell phone in the way that
That's the reason why I did not see the final
movie of Twilight, nor did I see the final movie
of Harry Potter, because I I was going through that
age where the smartphone was now allowed into theaters. But
I finally saw the final episode of Twilight all these
years later, and I sat there and I thought, you've
got to put yourself back in that decade that movie,
because you can't sit here and judge it by what
you have gone through since the creation of that movie,
and I think a lot of people are in that
same boat.
Speaker 1: You were so right.
Speaker 3: And one of the things that you know, again I'm
going to sound like I'm a monker, but one of
the thing that I insist upon when I watch these
movies is that, like I have to go in like
with a clean palate, and I can't say, sitting here
in twenty twenty five, oh, the special effects.
Speaker 1: Are bad and dragging me to hell, which they're not.
They're good.
Speaker 3: I'm just using it as an example. But like, I
can't say that because it's from two thousand and nine.
You have to go in saying, like, it's two thousand
and nine, what's happening in the world?
Speaker 1: Tell me the story.
Speaker 3: I can't have, you know, fourteen fifteen years of experience
that I'm bringing to the since then, because then the
movie doesn't work. That's not fair to the movie, right,
you know, it was created, you know, in a context,
and so I try to always like consider the context
and review the movies in that context. It's not fair
for me to say, well, three or four movies, did
this better than the Halloween you make ten years later?
You know, that's not fair because they didn't have that
you know, they didn't know that, they didn't have ten
years of the future.
Speaker 1: When they are making their movie.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: So it's like, yeah, all right, are you saying in
the book Horror Movies two thousand and two thousand and
nine that this is this is when horror movies went
to Imax Because I won't do a horror movie unless
it's in Imax. I've got to have that full screen,
i have to have it loud, I've got to have
it so damn cold inside that theater. I mean that,
to me is the movie experience nowadays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that that shift did occur in
the late two thousand, late aughts and beginning twenty tens.
Certainly when you're talking about you know, some of the
main dream, very popular horror, like The Conjuring, Annabelle, the None,
all of those are the IMAX experience. And I get
what you're saying as far as being cold, Being cold
like begins to trigger your shiver mechanisms, and that sort
of puts you in the perfect physical state to experience
what's coming next. But I mean that again, that's a
perfect example of how that's like different from the house
right where you're streaming something and it's like, oh, there's
so many distractions.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm hot, I'm going to go open the
screen door in the middle of the movie.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like ah, yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 4: See now you're talking about like what the forty experiences
over there at Regal Stonecrest. Have you been in there
to experience that yet?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, it's it's amazing, And you know, I know
some people I'm trying to think about what I went
to see. I'm a big goddilla fan of Oh God,
I saw God to a King of Monsters with my son.
This was like twenty nineteen, and even that where it
was almost it was an amusement park experience. I mean,
like the seats were rocking going side to side, air
was blowing in our face, Smoke was coming up from
the screen, water was blasting us, and I had the
greatest time, and I thought, you know, it has just
immersed me, you know, in this experience. Even more so,
it's odd that we are having these boutique sort of
theatrical experiences which augment the movies, but most people don't
even go to the theater. They're just going to watch
it on streaming, where it's like the absolute opposite.
Speaker 1: They've got their phone.
Speaker 3: With them, kids are playing in the background, the lights
are on. You know, you have to answer an email
during a text during the movie.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh wow.
Speaker 3: I mean, imagine being a filmmaker and having to deal
with that level of distraction from here.
Speaker 4: There are so many experiences there nowadays. I mean, because
even Regal has the speakers in the seat where it
vibrates and scared.
Speaker 2: And that's what scares the crap out of you when
that vibrating go into what the hell what's going on here?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's really funny.
Speaker 3: But sound is a lot of what plays on us
in horror films about about how the sound is modulated
to startle us. Right, So, yeah, sound is so crucially important.
So I'm glad you you mentioned that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but again I was gonna say, you bring up
something here though that I had to laugh at, only
because that's what I like about getting older, is that
you bring so many experiences throughout all the decades, and
you know, through this time period two thousand or two
thousand and nine, the tortures.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's a lot more of that.
Speaker 4: Zombies of course, because that became the trend and then
one of the words you put in there is porn.
I'm going I know, I'm thinking the seventies porn at
that at dorm movie theater was a lot better than
what we're seeing today.
Speaker 3: I'm reluctant. It's funny I write about torture porn. I've
written the word many times in the book, but I
don't often say torture porn out loud. And I say it,
I immediately think I've said something terrible saying. But I mean,
that's what that's what the you know, that subgenre was named,
you know, or gorno. They called it gorno for a while,
and they called a torture porn, you know, And I
think that you know, what that's talking about is obviously
something that's a lot less fun than what you're talking.
Speaker 4: Well, that was the reason why we went to the
drive in movie theater, because we got that and a
dang foot long hot dog with mustard on it with
sauerkrawd oh listen.
Speaker 1: One of the first movies I ever saw.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a great movie, but when I was a
kid in the seventies, I saw it in a drive
in theater. I saw a legend of Boggy Creek when
I was like three years old, you know, and it
just terrified me. I'd sit, you know in the backseat
and you know, peek out around the corner. But you know,
it was it was an amazing experience, even for you know,
for then. I guess, you know, I guess maybe there
are distractions in a drive in theater. Maybe that's a
way to put it. But the movie was still kind
of the focus. I mean, it's this giant screen, right.
Speaker 4: But you've got to love the way that Fathom Evance
is starting to bring back these movies and putting them
back up on the big screen. And I don't know
if that's just their way of saying, don't watch it
at home, come here, and yet the real vibe of
what this film is all about.
Speaker 3: I think so. And I think that's a wonderful, wonderful service.
I mean, you know, I don't want to get too
far into you know, social cultural trends, but I was
reading last week about you know a number of people
in my son's generation, he's nineteen, who are who have
gotten rid of their phones and.
Speaker 1: They're like into like, you know, disposable.
Speaker 3: Cameras and you know, flip phones and they're buying CDs
or listening to vinyl, and I think, you know, there
is some pull in our culture. I think to realize
that we you know, circa this time, you know, two
thousand and two thousand and nine, even though there were
major world events that were very upsetting, like the War
on Terror, hurri but but like in some ways we
had it better as far as like media was concerned,
you know, as opposed to now where it's like there's
almost so much of it that we're you know, we
have brain thought. They call it what brain rot? Now
you know, you know that that's like a stew you
kind of have to work your way through to find
anything good, right. I mean it's not to say the
good isn't there, but it's like you've got to do
a lot more work.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: I think you sitting down with your editors had to
have been a scary experience because I mean, how did
you get so much of this information beyond your editor?
Speaker 3: I have to say I have a wonderful publisher, McFarland.
They they you know, I try to never come at
this from an exploitative, you know, standpoint, and I think
that they're very encouraging you. They have a strong pop
culture line, and they know I'm talking about horror. You know,
I've written horror films of the seventies, har Fiams of
the eighties, Hartfams of the nineties, and this one. And
so they they know, they know what to expect that
I'm going to take this seriously. I mean, I do
talk about this stuff. I mean, you know, I go
into detail. It's true, but it's like you have to like,
how can you meaningfully analyze something if you're not, you know,
discussing the details, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And listeners need to understand how much of a
tool this really is in the way when we're sitting around.
Speaker 2: Going, well, what do you want to watch? I don't
know what do you want to watch?
Speaker 3: It?
Speaker 2: Sylloween blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: But you've got three hundred and fifteen horror films that
you're talking about here, when the average person can talk
about two or three. So you're really putting us in
a different kind of a world to say, well, according
to this book, I should be watching this. Oh we
got disconnected. Oh that's awesome. We weren't supposed to bring
that subject up, obviously, er hey, I'm here. Obviously we
weren't supposed to answer that last question. Oh my god,
I mean you start talking about you know, like, okay, there,
you know, three hundred and fifteen horror films here, and
all the ghosts that sit in this forest that I
have right here in South Charlotte.
Speaker 2: They're all going, don't you talk about this? It's private,
we horror people.
Speaker 3: And it's not even Friday the thirteenth.
Speaker 4: I mean, because I mean, you don't you see this
as a viewing tool that because everybody keeps talking about
the same three movies and say, god, there's so much
more than that. Dude, you need to go see what
John is doing.
Speaker 3: I love it when people, you know, take my book
and you know, I love it when they say I
don't always agree with his analysis, but he gave me
something to think about it. And like there are all
these movies I haven't seen, which now I need to watch.
To me, like that's the thing, you know, I'm just
you know, a guy, you know, saying I watched the
movies I analyze and this is what I saw. But
I love it when people say, well I disagree with you,
or you read so much into that. But like Hey,
look at this movie I found, you know, I found
them or the host or the myst or you know,
Thirty Days of Night or whatever they.
Speaker 1: Found from the book. I love when people say that
to me. It's like, you know, I never watched.
Speaker 3: You know, Battle Royale or Audition until I read your book,
and now you know I love that movie that kind
of thing.
Speaker 4: So now with you being right there in Minhill, I
got to ask you the scariest question of the day.
And nobody around the world's can understand this except for
the two of us. So being in being in Minhill,
do you go to Sun Valley in and Row for
your movies? Do you go to Regal Stonecrest, Do you
go to Starlight or are you going up there to Concord Mills?
Speaker 2: Which one you doing?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: Historically I've gone to all of them. I think most
recently it's Regal stone Craft.
Speaker 1: Now I do.
Speaker 3: Sometimes we my wiferiend will sometimes go to Sun Valley.
We sometimes go to uh Conquered.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it's it's what is that?
Speaker 2: What you say? Four?
Speaker 1: Yes? That one? That's right. That's right. So so we'll
go wherever.
Speaker 3: We can find something we want to see that.
Speaker 4: Well, have you been to the Independent at all? Because
the Independent over there in Noda is really opening up
the door for a lot of these movies that take
place all the you know, the the independent movies.
Speaker 2: Basically.
Speaker 3: Well, that's really interesting because I haven't you know, my
wife friend, we've been in Charlotte since the mid nineties,
and we used to love in the nineties, like we
were just absolutely always this was before my son, always
at the Manor Theater.
Speaker 1: Yes, man, that.
Speaker 2: Owns the Independent, the people that the Manory.
Speaker 1: Yes see, this is how out of it I am.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that that that was owned by the
people who had the Manor.
Speaker 1: You have to tell me more about that.
Speaker 4: Well, you're here in Charlotte. We're just gonna have to
meet for a face to face. We're gonna have to
go and get a bucket of popcorn, probably have a
dog or two, and you know, and just sit there
and talk movies while it's going on.
Speaker 1: I would love that. That sounds like a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: Excellent, man, well man, thank you for this twenty minutes.
And I know that we have a whole entire future
since you're this close to me.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that sounds great, and you know I make my
own horror comedy show Abnormal Fixations on YouTube.
Speaker 1: You should come be a part of it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 1: Okay o, hey you too, Thank you, Haro, you are brilliant.
Speaker 2: Thank you.