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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Nanocon just ended last week, the largest gathering

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of non religious people in the state of Tennessee. At

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the end of this week is Baja Con up in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada,

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and they are bringing in an absolutely stellar lineup of

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speakers and presenters. And then in two weeks we will

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be down in Austin, Texas for the ACA's annual bat Crews.

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So there are some absolutely awesome opportunities to connect with

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your people happening all over and you gotta check these out.

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If you think a growing more connected secular community is

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a bad thing, you're wrong. But hey, call us anyway,

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because the show's starting right now. That's right, everybody. Today

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is August third, twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Secularity,

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and joining me today is the always wonderful Jim Barrows.

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What's up, brother, Ah, not much, just.

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Speaker 2: Kind of enjoying the warm, humid weather here and Southern Swastika.

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Speaker 1: Right right, has it has it been? Has it been gross?

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Speaker 2: Where you are?

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Speaker 1: It has been overly hot and uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: Here, so yeah, yeah, it is definitely hot and humid. Okay,

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look forward to days that arrange when it drops up

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the heat doesn't bother me because I used to.

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Speaker 1: Live in Phoenix, is honest, So that's freaking you know.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and ten, one hundred and fifteen not really

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a problem. I mean that's hot, don't get me wrong,

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but ninety degrees it's you know, one hundred percent humidity

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or ninety five percent humidity is just awful. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, it is like that here so much. And

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it's like I don't know, you know, you look at

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the I've got the little weather app thing, you know,

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on my phone of course, right which I've heard something.

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I don't know if this is going to be the case,

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but like like apparently like the government data isn't going

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to be like free anymore public. I don't know about that.

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It's just anyway. But this little weather app is like

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it's like, oh yeah, it's like ninety two degrees you

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know in Nashville, and I'm like, oh, no way, But

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then I look underneath it and then it's like right,

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but like the real feel like heat index is actually

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like one twelve, And I'm like, well, why tell me

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ninety Why tell me that if it's really right, you know,

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that much hot, Like why not just say like it's

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one hundred and twenty degrees outside, you know, because that's

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what it feels like.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, well, because you know, when you're

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in Phoenix and it's one hundred and fifteen, the only

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way you know you were hot once you come back

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inside is to look at all the salt stains where

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you sweat.

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Speaker 2: It, because you don't get wet, right, you don't get

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that that sweaty claiminginess that you get when it's humid

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out because your sweat is doing what it's supposed to

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do and that the salt residue is a result of that.

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But you never get that here. And so yeah, you

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can say it's like being in one hundred and fifteen

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degree heat, right, Really it's not.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right.

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Speaker 2: It may put your body under the same stress level,

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but sweat wise, I mean, yeah, it's just it's horrible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is, it is.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there there are some good things about

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the out you know, we're not going to list them

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right now, but they they are out there. What I

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am going to do is tell you that the atheist

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experience is a product of the atheist community of Austin

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A five O one C. Three nonprofit organization dedicated to

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the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the

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separation of religion and government. And I love that, man,

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I am a big, big fan of that. But while

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we've got while, we've got some of these calls coming in,

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and we do have open lines, folks. So the number

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is right there on the screen, I know, it is

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in the chats and the descriptions below. Give us a call.

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If you've heard us say something in the past that's wrong,

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you know, Jim and I, Jim and I do not

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believe in in God's We don't. We think they don't exist.

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We think, you know, there's never been good proof, whether

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that is scientific or philosophic. There's just no reason out

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there to be going to church on a regular basis.

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You know what else, what else don't we believe in? Jim,

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I know, we were talking about like yeah, yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: Shocks, supernatural Yeah so ghosts, fairies, spirits, chakras key powers,

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all that kind of good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah know, yeah, that's a good one.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: So there's this So I I love talking about this

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just because it's an interesting little fact. There's this this

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this like kind of what do you want to call

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it like a ballet, I guess that travels around the

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world and a lot of the United States called Chin

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Yun and it's it's actually the performance arm of of

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a of a religious you know, cult called Phalan Gong

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and one of the things that Phalan Gong believe. And

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they don't like that being out there. By the way,

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they're not super big fans of you talking about that.

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If you if you approach one of these ore people.

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Speaker 2: Oh so we should never talk about how they're they're

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part of a religious call.

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Speaker 1: Huh right, right, that that that the specific the specific

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play that they do is actually just propaganda for for

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their religious cult. Yeah, they do not like that information

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being being out and they're not super fans of the

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fact that the the Epoch Times you know, e p

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o h some people say epic. I don't care how

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you pronounce it, but that is that is their media,

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that is their media arm. Yeah, they do not like

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that information being out there. Yeah yeah, yeah, but but

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anyway it is. It's the case. And one of the

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things that they can do, apparently is they have the

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ability to control their their key, you know, enough in

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their body that they can actually make like balls of

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energy and then shoot them at people apparently, but they're

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not all.

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Speaker 2: Isn't there a song something like great balls?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, we start singing it, but we would

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get so struck so fast that we're just gonna let

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you at home have fun with that one.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about us R, but if I started singing,

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enter is no algorithm out there that will tell you.

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Speaker 1: That will wick it up right right right. It will

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have no clue. So you're like, oh my god, we're yeah,

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we don't know. I don't know what this noise is,

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but it's something so.

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Speaker 2: Goodness gracious, they shoot great balls of key.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but they're not allowed to demonstrate it in front

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of non believers, you know, so uh right, I see

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see see see. Yeah, Smart's that you do.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, that's how you do with Yeah. Yeah, don't demonstrate

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your powers in front of anybody who can debunk them, right,

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That's always a good way to prove that you have powers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like those It's kind of like

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those uh like martial art guys you know that are

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like somehow able to like defy the laws of physics.

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But then like the moment there's cameras around them for

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some reason, none of it works, you know.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Or they go toe to toe with a MMA

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fighter and they get, you know, knocked out in the

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first ten seconds. I just can't block a thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's you know,

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we're joking about this stuff, you know, but it is

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serious because if you're if you're tens of thousands of

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dollars to go to a supposed martial arts expert and

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they are actually making you more likely to get injured

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in a in an encounter like that out in public

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like that is dangerous on every level. Not only is

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it fraud on the financial side of it, but just

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on the like like the personal health side of it.

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Like you're going to walk into a situation thinking you're

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freaking confident as hell, and somebody's just going to just

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kill you. I mean, that's that's what's going to happen,

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you know. So yeah, we're making fun of this, we're joking,

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we're we're having a good time, but this stuff is serious.

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And again, if any of those things, you know, you

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disagree with, if you think Jim and I are just

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completely wrong on all of this and we really should

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be reading our astrology charts more or I don't know,

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paying homage to the pagan gods. You know, give us

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call because we do have open lines. So I am.

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Let's just let's just go ahead and grab a call.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: Let's just let's see what people want to talk about today.

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We've got I think I'm pronouncing that right. Shock He

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him up in New York wants to talk about the

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commonality of religion and the concept of God. Well, we

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like to talk about the concept of God here, shock.

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So you were on the atheist experience with Jim Barrow's

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and secularity. What you got You're coming in just a

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little bit funky right there, afternoon?

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Speaker 2: There we go, Oh right, we can't know.

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Speaker 1: Yep, you're sounding a lot better whatever you did. If

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just smash your face up against that microphone. What's you

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got for us?

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Speaker 5: Awesome?

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Speaker 6: All right, all right, good to see you, Jim and Sor.

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I mean, I've been watching your show for a very

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long time, and you know, I grew up with Hinduism

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as a religion, and the fust time that I kind

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of started to question my religion or the belief in

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God was back in twenty eighteen. Man Unfortunately we had

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a you know, we had a loss of just a

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conceived child, and so that kind of question me at

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things and why would God allow that, and why would

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that be? Why would that happen in my life? And

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so I've been kind of on the fence since then,

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But lately I've been questioning a lot reading through online

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and just understanding of the legion, to see that a

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lot of commonality in the concept of God amongst the religions.

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You talk about Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism and uh

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and Islam, and then all the legions the roots of

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them when they were originated, they had no communication with

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each other.

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Speaker 5: I'm just trying.

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Speaker 2: To rec Well, no, that's not necessarily true. I mean,

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you've got the Great Silk Road that traded from Europe

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all the way into China. I mean, you had to

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trade all over the Eurasian continent. The Americas were a

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little you know, we're a little bit more isolated with

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not a lot of trade, but you had trade down

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into Africa as well as Africa, Europe, the Middle East, Russia.

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There's all and stories, you know, get told and retold

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through trade. Information gets passed through trade, So I wouldn't

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say they were isolated from each other. I would say that,

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you know, the stories got passed on from from from trade,

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international trade, all all the way across. So I forget

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when the Great Silk Road got started, but that's been

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around for a really, really long time. It's not one

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trader going from one end to the other. It's a

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you know, trader goes to a place, trades his stuff,

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and that stuff gets traded on. You had vikings who

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had Chinese coins in some of their hordes that we've found,

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and some other stuff from China. We know that they

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didn't go to China, or at least were relatively confident

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they didn't go to China. There may have been one

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or two. But yeah, so I wouldn't say they're isolated

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at all. I would say that anywhere along that big

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stretch of land we call Europe the Middle East, and

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then it's super easy to get down into Africa at

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that point. So yeah, trade, trade spread the stories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: Shock?

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Speaker 6: So yeah, So I mean just just again, that's a

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that's a good that's a good thought for sure, you know,

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not something that I really thought of them through the trade,

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but you know the language griers, I guess the first

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point of contact, so.

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Speaker 5: To speak with the God.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's some commonalities there as well. And the

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other thing that I kind of just context myself with

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and just just.

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Speaker 5: When I'm questioning. But you know, again, I'm just I'm

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not sure.

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Speaker 6: There's a part of fear for sure on if I

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questioned what could be the consequences that I would need to.

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Speaker 5: Faith beyond whatever?

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Speaker 6: All that your face, you know, seven years ago, and

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that made me question my my faith. But there's also

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back then there were a lot of there was a

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lot of good will around at that time, so people

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got what.

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Speaker 5: They deserve, so to speak.

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Speaker 6: Is it fair to say that right now, where the

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whole world is, where the things are going, that there's

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a lot of bad.

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Speaker 1: And even there, let me let me jump in. Let

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me jump in for a second shock, hang on, just

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second for me, man, Let me let me jump in

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just real quick, just because I feel like, broadly speaking,

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I kind of get where you're going. But I'm always

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really wary whenever we want to make those really broad

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statements about like yeah, like a long time ago, like

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people were nicer or something. I'm not really sure that

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that we have that data to begin with, right, I'm

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not positive we have a perfect accounting of the way

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that people were behaving, especially in a non public manner,

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in a non recorded manner. The further we go back

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in human history, the harder it is to find reliable information.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 1: But I will say, just kind of off the rip,

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just off the top of my head. I think the

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further we go back in human history, the more likelier

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we're to find, as some people describe it, that brutish

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state of nature.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think as we have gotten closer and clo closer

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to today, we have developed a lot of different things,

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a lot of different safeguards, a lot of different checks

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and balances, and all those good things that have made

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us a little bit more I guess, amicable on the

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broad sense. If you think about it, there's probably like hundreds,

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if not thousands of people you see on a daily

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basis that you've never murdered.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good, that's a pretty good number. Shock You're

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doing great? You know most of us are in that camp. Right,

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Real quick, though, I just want to come back to

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the thing you were talking about earlier, when it came

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to the commonalities that you see in these stories. I

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don't disagree that there's commonalities, but I think what is

279
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the common thread amongst them all is a lot simpler

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and a lot easier, which is it's all people telling stories.

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It's all humans that are coming up with these things,

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and because we're all people, we all come up with

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similar kinds of stories. But I know I shouted a

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bunch at to their shock. So so what do you

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got for us?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'm a I'm a very analytical guy.

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I like to be be you know, to go buy

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data and not not be driven by emotions. And so

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when I say that, you know, when I look back

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and see the stories, it's kind of similar to you know,

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you're sitting in Texas, I'm sitting in New York. You say,

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you know, I saw a you know, a blue tiger, right,

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And I said, I.

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Speaker 5: Saw a blue tiger in New York. You saw a

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blue tiger in Texas.

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Speaker 6: And you both are not talking to each other at all,

297
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but no connections, nothing. The likelihood of there being a

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blue tiger is highly likely, wouldn't you say? Is it

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compared to you know saying I mean.

300
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Speaker 2: But so again, you're saying that there's no communication between

301
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New York and Texas, and I would say, again, you're

302
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missing the fact that people trade. You're missing the fact

303
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that people wander around, you're you know, all this stuff

304
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that happens there is really if it's really hard to

305
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find societies that are in isolation. Australia would definitely be one,

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same with New Zealand, although they you know, they were

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in isolation together. You could say Japan's a little bit isolated.

308
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The America is north and south. We're definitely isolated from Europe,

309
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and so you see different things. But wherever you have

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a trade, you're going to get stories to spread, and

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you just can't really ignore that. The other thing you

312
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can't ignore it is that we're all human and so

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there's certain things that we're going to want to have

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some sort to at least feel like we have some

315
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sort of control over war and pestilence and drought, whether

316
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you know, all these things we want to have control over.

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And so if you see similarities in gods, it's probably

318
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because fundamentally we're all still human and have been for

319
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you know, ten thousand years on hundred thousand years. Our

320
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,240
long Homo sapiens have been around, and you can't discount

321
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any of that when you're looking at Oh, look, China

322
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has a god of war and the Romans have a

323
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god of war. War is a common thing, and if

324
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you want to win, you want some way to influence it.

325
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Coming up with a god is as good a way

326
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as any same thing with rain gods and fertility gods.

327
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And then you also have the storytelling happening along trade routes.

328
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So I would say it's very difficult to find societies

329
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that are isolated, and even when you do, if you

330
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look at their gods and being the same, I don't

331
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think they really are. Australia and Japan I think are

332
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more spirit same with at least the Northern American Indian

333
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tribes I think are more spirit oriented than they are

334
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god oriented. But they all control the same types of things.

335
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Because we're human beings and we want to have more

336
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control over our lives than we think we do for

337
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that kind of stuff. So when you say that two

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societies are isolated, they have the same gods, Okay, you

339
00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:58,399
need to go a little bit further than that. You

340
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need to figure out how they developed those things, and

341
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then look at at that. But even so, even if

342
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two societies are isolated then come up with the same God,

343
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you haven't proven that God actually exists. And that's the

344
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key thing is you then need to go that extra

345
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step and go, okay, so why do these two different

346
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societies propose the same God? And are they actually the

347
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same God? Even if we assume that your your proposition

348
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is true, that two isolated people came up with the

349
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same thing, they need to go prove prove that it exists.

350
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You can't say, well, they came up with the same thing,

351
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therefore it exists. That doesn't make any sense. That's just

352
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basically an argument from popularity. And then that question, the

353
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question with any question of you know, an argument for

354
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popularity is how many people do I need to get

355
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to believe that I have a million dollars in the

356
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bank for that to be true? That makes sense?

357
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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no, I got some thinking to do there,

358
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for sure. You know that that makes sense of just

359
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thinking I putated from in a way that you know,

360
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,039
it can be a coincidence with everyone having a concept

361
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of God and there being a lot of similarities there.

362
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Speaker 5: But you know what you just said there, Gym, it

363
00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:12,359
makes sense. I got to put more part into it.

364
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,839
Speaker 6: But at the same time, you know, I kind of

365
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,559
feel a little bit I wouldn't say fear or care,

366
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but I feel like a little bit of a hesitancy.

367
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Speaker 5: In doing so.

368
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Speaker 4: Sure, mainly you know, understand that, you know, the big

369
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:30,799
belief in God could have consequences, but the belief in

370
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God could not have any negative consequences.

371
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Speaker 5: There's always positive.

372
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Speaker 1: Hang on, hang on right there, hang on right there, shot,

373
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hang on right there. I know, I know, I know

374
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,599
we've got some more cool stuff probably, but hang on

375
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,359
right there, because I think that's a really really good thing,

376
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:50,119
you know. So that is often termed something called Pascal's wager.

377
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,240
This guy really really smart mathematician, by the way, super

378
00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:57,640
super influential in a lot of things. But he sat

379
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,440
down one day and he did out this whole super

380
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,039
cool math problem, put some logic to it. Was like, hey, look,

381
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,759
believing in God honestly at the end of the day, like,

382
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,559
if you're wrong, no big deal, likesh, But you know,

383
00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:15,880
I mean, you know, you gotta be right because if

384
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,119
you aren't, ooh ooh. You know here's the thing. Look,

385
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,160
the way that he runs that equation is incorrect because

386
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,119
he's not calculating all of the other things that come

387
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,759
into play. So, for instance, sure he's not calculating all

388
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,440
the different types of gods and all the different types

389
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,559
of heavens and hells, but he's also not calculating all

390
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,960
of the things that you, as a believer, are giving

391
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,960
up or purposefully doing when you wouldn't do so if

392
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,559
you didn't believe in that. For instance, a grandmother who's

393
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,319
eighty seven years old right with barely any money in

394
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,319
her bank account only gives all of that money away

395
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,759
to a church and goes destitute and broke and homeless

396
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,079
because she believes in that God. Now you can't say that, hey,

397
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,920
if you just believe in the God like you're not

398
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:08,799
risking anything. Yes you are. You are absolutely not only

399
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,559
giving up on things, right. There are many many people

400
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,519
who have lived their whole lives as believers and on

401
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,799
their deathbeds stop believing and turn around and go damn,

402
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,440
I would have done so many things differently if I

403
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,599
didn't believe in this God. So sure, I guess technically,

404
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,519
if it's real, there's like this heaven thing. Sure that's

405
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:31,599
a big that's a big, nice cake in a present

406
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,079
with a bow on it. But you are risking things,

407
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:37,200
you are losing things, you are giving things up and

408
00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:42,000
potentially putting yourself at risk of extreme harm simply by

409
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:44,119
believing in the God. Does that make sense?

410
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah?

411
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:49,559
Speaker 6: You have in my my my just origin of my

412
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:55,400
questioning itself came from just having seen it unborn, right,

413
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,279
just just not having a chance at life itself made

414
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:01,839
me question, on, okay, that could be things that I

415
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,359
might have done, my wife might have done, but you know,

416
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,799
what did that unborn child do to you know, to.

417
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 2: Not get through?

418
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 6: If there was a god, right, and and so that

419
00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:14,759
kind of made me question that as a as a

420
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:18,680
binary point on if there is a god then and

421
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:21,480
he's all powerful and all knowing, why would he let

422
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:22,799
something like this happen?

423
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 2: He or she?

424
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:25,039
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm not trying.

425
00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: To No, no, no, you're good, you're good. We understand she.

426
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:28,759
Speaker 2: Would let that happen.

427
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 6: And if there is no god, then it's just science.

428
00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,960
It's just you know, it just happened, right, the things

429
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,319
that didn't work out and you know, just just happened. So,

430
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,279
which which is a little bit more comforting, I must say,

431
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,079
versus saying that is a god?

432
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 5: But then why why did the god let that happen?

433
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 6: So, but but I'm kind of stuck in between those two, right,

434
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,160
and trying to, you know, kind of find a safe

435
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,880
pathway to the acceptance of their not being a god,

436
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:56,759
right and moving on.

437
00:21:58,079 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 2: I mean, you just look at our Coham's razor. What

438
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:08,519
has done more to increase or to decrease the pregnancy risks?

439
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:12,079
Certainly not religion, right, But science has science has reduced

440
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:14,759
the risk? Have they reduced the risk to zero? No?

441
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,680
They haven't. Is that even possible? We don't know. But

442
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,119
you know, one hundred years ago it was very different.

443
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,440
Two hundred years ago. The further back in time you go,

444
00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:27,720
the pregnancy risk goes up. You know. That's why people

445
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,559
had large families, was so that at least one child

446
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,400
would survive to carry on the family name. And so

447
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,880
we can look at infant mortality rates, we can look

448
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,599
at human life span, we can look at all this

449
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,480
stuff and go, it wasn't religion, because we've had a

450
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:45,839
religion for two thousand years, but it was definitely science.

451
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,119
When science gets better every year, but it's still not.

452
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,799
It still has not created a zero risk world when

453
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:54,599
it comes to our health. So you know you look

454
00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:58,200
at it that way. Science has done more, it's not perfect,

455
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,519
hasn't done everything. And tomorrow is going you know, tomorrow

456
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:04,759
they're going to learn something new and it'll make our

457
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:07,359
lives better. And that it'll happen. I won't say every day,

458
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,559
but you know at least once a month something something

459
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,599
will come along to help out with it. You know,

460
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,200
an understanding medicine. And the biggest opponent to science research

461
00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:20,240
right now is religion, hands down. It doesn't matter which

462
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:24,240
religion you are. If the if the gods exist, and

463
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:26,039
you should be praying to the gods for healing, and

464
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:30,200
that doesn't work, So where are you right? I mean,

465
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,559
it just makes more sense to go yeah, I mean,

466
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,400
bad things happen to good people because the world is

467
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:43,119
governed somewhat semi randomly, but because there is no god

468
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,000
directing it. You didn't do anything, your wife didn't do anything.

469
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,759
That just one of those things that happens. And having

470
00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:52,400
gods around makes it worse, not better, makes it harder

471
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,319
to understand, not easier, and makes it less likely that

472
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,440
you know, if you decide to try again, that the

473
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,759
same thing will happen because the science, the science will

474
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:02,039
get better we'll understand more.

475
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:02,559
Speaker 1: What do you think?

476
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then yeah, and in a way that kind

477
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,960
of debunks my eldier statement that you know, because you know,

478
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,880
overall the goodwill and the morality in humans. You know,

479
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:16,799
we have seen just the modernization of things, and you know,

480
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,680
and and and the more communications amongst humans across there's

481
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:27,279
there's you know, and of course economical uh, turmoil grew

482
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,559
and deeper people a little bit away from their core morality.

483
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:35,079
And so if if if previously ancient times there were

484
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,839
much better higher level of morality, and now there isn't

485
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:40,920
a dead level. And so you know, like to to

486
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,680
my point that I say that maybe the consequences are

487
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,079
faced more now than in the past, But then to

488
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,519
your counterpoint that you just made it regards to the

489
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:52,680
science advancement in medical that actually debunks that debunks my

490
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,039
own statement. So I appreciate you kind of debunking my

491
00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,880
own statement because I think with that logic, uh, there

492
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,319
be a thing left that in kids, the pregnant women,

493
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:08,079
in in people overall the diseases. And you know, if

494
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,680
if gone what God wanted that to happen, either way,

495
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,160
it would have still happened either way. You respect you,

496
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,319
the advancement in the science and medical Yeah, if if your.

497
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,759
Speaker 2: I would say, even your statements that were we were

498
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:21,920
more moral in the past than we are today, I

499
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,200
would say, even that's wrong, because in the past, we

500
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:27,720
believe that slavery was okay. In the past, we believe

501
00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:33,200
that Debtor's prisons were a good idea. We believed that

502
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:35,759
in all kinds of things that we just know aren't

503
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:40,400
true anymore, aren't moral anymore, And we're becoming more empathetic,

504
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,559
not less. In most cases, I would say that, you know,

505
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,400
somehow that we got as politics anyway, I would just

506
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,559
say that that for the most part, we are more

507
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,799
moral today than we were one hundred years ago or

508
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,680
two hundred years ago, just getting rid of slavery, just

509
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,319
recognizing the horrors of war. You know, countries used to

510
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:01,880
go to war because leaders wanted more land, or wanted

511
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,960
to or thought they had to claim to the land

512
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,319
they may or may not have. Rather than fight that

513
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,559
claim out in the courts, they went to war over it.

514
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,079
So we have less war today than we did one

515
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,359
hundred years ago, five hundred years ago, or a thousand

516
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,759
years ago. So I would say that we're you know,

517
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:21,799
our morals continue to improve as we get to understand

518
00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:24,599
more and more about you know, the effects of things.

519
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,079
So I'm not sure that even the case, I'm not

520
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,000
sure you can make the case we're more moral one

521
00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:31,559
hundred years ago than we are today.

522
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:35,559
Speaker 1: Well shock, I think I think we had a good

523
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:38,440
little back and forth. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully we answered some

524
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,559
stuff for you. But yeah, give us a call back

525
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,759
in the future if you've got any other questions or

526
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,359
if you go back, you rewatch us and you go like, ah,

527
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,920
you guys miss something. So we always love that man.

528
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:51,799
But thank you so much, and we're gonna we're gonna

529
00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,839
drop you in. We're gonna go on to some other calls. Which,

530
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,960
by the way, just as a reminder folks, we do

531
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,839
in fact have open lines. So if you've got thoughts,

532
00:26:59,839 --> 00:27:03,279
if you've got questions, just you know, mean comments you

533
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:05,440
want to make to us, just to our faces, like

534
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,200
I could go for it. I mean, I don't know,

535
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,960
I probably shouldn't invite that, right, Like this is on

536
00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:13,000
the internet. So let's see, I've got a couple of

537
00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:16,200
col got a couple of announcements I'm gonna read to

538
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,720
you real quick before we grab some other calls. Folks,

539
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,400
Bat Cruz twenty twenty five is coming up fast. I

540
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,000
want to say, it's like like twelve thirteen days away.

541
00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:27,720
You also not even two weeks, less than two weeks.

542
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:32,440
August sixteenth is the date at seven pm. Tickets are

543
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:35,319
selling quickly, so you gotta get yours today and you

544
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,000
can join people like Henry K, Matthew T and Joel

545
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,200
H who already got their tickets. So Henry, Matthew, Joel,

546
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:45,240
thank you so much, and we are excited to have

547
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:46,920
you there. Come up, say hi to us when you

548
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,079
get there. If you are not able to attend, that

549
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,440
is okay. You can still help out by donating underneath

550
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,039
the live chat to purchase a ticket for one of

551
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:59,319
our hosts or crew. That will go a long way

552
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,759
for some real great people that have been donating quite

553
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:04,599
a lot of time and are and are just having

554
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:07,319
trouble just making ends meet and getting out. So if

555
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,240
you want to help out, you can do so in

556
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:13,640
that chat underneath the live chat right there with your donation,

557
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,039
and you can visit tiny dot cc slash bat Crews

558
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,160
get you tickets and all the information and we will

559
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,119
see you there.

560
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:21,599
Speaker 2: Guys.

561
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: That is gonna be so freaking awesome. I was there

562
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,240
last year, and I know it is gonna be so

563
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,640
Last year, if I remember correctly, there was a problem

564
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,279
and the boat was not able to actually actually take

565
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,559
us out. We did, We did still see bats. Bats

566
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:42,799
were seeing folks. Yeah, a good time was had we

567
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:45,759
were on the river, but technically we just didn't get

568
00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:48,680
to actually do you know underneath it and stuff. But look,

569
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:50,599
let me just say something to you, guys. Just think

570
00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:53,160
about this for five seconds. Okay, there's like a million

571
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,440
and a half bats that are flying over your head.

572
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,079
How directly underneath them? Do you want to be right?

573
00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:01,440
I mean, just for a second there, Like, what's the

574
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:02,200
logic there?

575
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: Right?

576
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: What happens? What's gonna be right? You see what I'm saying.

577
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,519
Speaker 2: Like they were sleeping and they're just not waking up,

578
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,039
so they probably don't have full bellies at that point.

579
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,079
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I don't know. I know a

580
00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:17,079
lot of people one of their first things in the

581
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:21,160
morning anyway, So we've got other announcements and other calls, folks.

582
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,960
If you want to get your calls in, get her

583
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,960
in right now, and before you do anything else, just

584
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:28,359
go ahead and like the video, Subscribe to the channel,

585
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,400
enable notifications, and comment below on your favorite or least

586
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,759
favorite caller or favorite or least favorite hosts.

587
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:35,039
Speaker 2: I don't know.

588
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:37,119
Speaker 1: I'm probably not supposed to say that either, so don't

589
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,000
do that. But I guess it's better than talking about that.

590
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: Right, So, I don't know.

591
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: As long as we don't sing, As long as we

592
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,799
don't sing anything, no no, no, no, no no no canceled, canceled,

593
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:54,640
we're done. We're done or done?

594
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:55,559
Speaker 2: All right?

595
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,039
Speaker 1: All right, Well, hopefully somebody else is having a great time,

596
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:02,160
but I know we are, so we like we have

597
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,799
some other calls, Like I said, we're gonna go right

598
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:06,319
to them. But again, if you have if you have

599
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,799
questions for us, if you think we're just missing something,

600
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,440
we're just destroying the fabric of society by you know,

601
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:16,119
being heathens and atheists. Uh, let us know. We love

602
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,000
to we love to hear that. But right now we

603
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:22,480
are going to go out to Florida. We've got Patrick

604
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,799
as an agnostic and any and all pronouns. And I'm

605
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:27,759
just real quick, Patrick, because I know you can hear me.

606
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,559
I'm not one hundred percent positive what you're calling in

607
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,400
about today. So Uh, we are just gonna have you

608
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,240
on and we're just gonna see what you got. So, hey, Patrick,

609
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:38,359
you're on with secularity in Jim Barrows.

610
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 9: Hey, just out off the rip. Some of this may

611
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:49,000
be satirical, but you know, I'm serious to.

612
00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:50,839
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a little confusing.

613
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:56,079
Speaker 9: For evidential agnostic. Can you hear me? I mean they said,

614
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:56,799
don't think.

615
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: We can hear you. We're trying to figure out what

616
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:01,039
anovid agnosticus.

617
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, go for that. I mean, I'm still on the

618
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:04,720
satirical but serious.

619
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,319
Speaker 9: But yeah, see, well, can I read this out? I

620
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:13,559
wrote this for y'all specifically today, one minute or less,

621
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,440
I could right through this thing.

622
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,799
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, Patrick, I have the ability

623
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,160
to put a sixty second timer on the screen, and

624
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,160
Jim and I will be quiet for that whole sixty seconds.

625
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,960
But the moment, the moment that clock expires, we will

626
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:31,720
jump right ends. That sound good for.

627
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 9: You, okay, Okay, back to the evidential agnostics later. Okay,

628
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:37,240
hit it?

629
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: You're good, Go did you hit it?

630
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:39,759
Speaker 6: Okay?

631
00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 9: The pronown Pandemonium Primer a god to the utterly confused,

632
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,440
Like Jim Barrows's Secular Rarity, Greetings, Jim and SR. I'm

633
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,440
thrilled to introduce you to the world of pronoun pandemonium,

634
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:57,279
where language is a playground and pronouns are the swing.

635
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,839
As an interrationalist, I'm about racing absurdity in my pronoun preferences.

636
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,000
Are the epitome is the ridiculousness the pronoun dance. When

637
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:10,400
I'm feeling like a coding genius like Jim Barrows, who's

638
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,599
actually the plus plus expert for the experience anyway, I

639
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,799
profoundlyclaim he him. In that case, I'm gonna just get

640
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,279
ahead a little bit. But when I'm feeling like a

641
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,440
mystical being channeling the essence of secular rities, cool name

642
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,319
s R. You're a genius by the way I effortly shifts,

643
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,480
effortlessly shift today them. It's a recognition.

644
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,839
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure is the thing. I

645
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:41,240
look Let me real quick, Patrick, thank you for the

646
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,599
for the very kind words for for both of us.

647
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,640
We greatly appreciate it. It almost sounds to me a

648
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,720
little bit like what you're saying is that you feel

649
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,359
fluid in maybe your gender presentation or your gender experience

650
00:32:56,759 --> 00:33:00,720
or uh, your your the preferred pronoun that that you

651
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,000
use depending on the day or time or how you feel.

652
00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:06,400
I just want to say, like, yeah, man, I'm all

653
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,000
in favor of that. I appreciate anybody that wants to

654
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:12,640
wants to kind of navigate that squishy space and wants

655
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,079
to wants to kind of, you know, change as as

656
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,759
they see fit. I want people to feel comfortable in

657
00:33:17,799 --> 00:33:21,559
that capacity. I don't think it's a particularly onerous task

658
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,720
for anybody to say something like, hey, these are my pronouns, right,

659
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:28,279
or hey I would I would prefer you use these pronouns,

660
00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:29,559
and then everybody just kind.

661
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,079
Speaker 2: Of follow along.

662
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: So I think if that's where you're going, I think

663
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:33,599
we kind of we kind of are all on the

664
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,319
same page and we can wrap that up and if

665
00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:37,359
there was anything else you wanted to talk about, we

666
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,640
could we could touch that.

667
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 9: Okay, I appreciate you.

668
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm serious.

669
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 9: It's kind of satirical, but I'm serious.

670
00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:45,039
Speaker 10: That's the same.

671
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 9: No, you know, technically, I guess I'm a member of group,

672
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:54,039
but like its a little militant for myself. But I'm

673
00:33:54,039 --> 00:33:57,440
an evidential agnostic and what that means to me, I

674
00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:01,640
just follow the science and you know, but like you know,

675
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,799
I like somebody like it's legitimate philosophy, like pan protopsychism

676
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:13,360
that that's very possible, oracle our theory on consciousness that's

677
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,320
a legitimate scientific theory, and so many things that are

678
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:24,000
unknown that atheists appear to just dismiss like ridiculous, absurd. Einstein,

679
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:28,440
you're absurd with the pantheism, just like you know that that.

680
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,360
I think he was an expert on his god the universe.

681
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,360
So if you're an expert, he was the and still

682
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:36,519
is the authority.

683
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: Are you let me, let me try, and let me

684
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,320
try and help, just get us, get us somewhere as

685
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:45,679
efficient as possible and as clear for everybody as possible.

686
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,320
Are you saying that you think there are reasons to

687
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,599
believe in a god? Or do you think? Are you

688
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,559
saying there are reasons that we shouldn't categorically rule out

689
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,000
the possibility of a god?

690
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, I wouldn't.

691
00:34:58,519 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 6: I'd say I think.

692
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 9: Like from me personally, what I see, I think is

693
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,880
basic psychology one on one Like Matt Dilla Hunting, for example,

694
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,559
he was more in like a cult Christianity group. Seems

695
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:14,719
like then he turned hardcore atheists because of that.

696
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 11: It's like a again, that's that's complete. That's a complete mischaracterization.

697
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,719
He wasn't he wasn't in a cult. He was a

698
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,519
mainstream Baptist or one of the mainstream Protestant legends. I

699
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:28,320
don't remember at the top of my ad. Just a

700
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,760
complete mischaracterization.

701
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 9: Well, hey, from my perspective, in a Christianity as a.

702
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,039
Speaker 2: Cult, yes, okay, Well that's if you.

703
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:40,639
Speaker 9: Believe honestly that a guy was made out of play

704
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:44,079
and his wife was made out of his rib Yes,

705
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,079
that's a cult.

706
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:47,679
Speaker 1: I don't care how many people are hang on, hang on,

707
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,679
patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick. First off, we're going a

708
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,079
little bit. We're going a little scattered right now, and

709
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,159
I love to I love to focus on as is

710
00:35:56,199 --> 00:35:58,599
it all possible? Hang on, It's okay, it's okay, it's okay,

711
00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:01,360
it's okay, it's okay, patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick

712
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,559
Patrick Patrick Patrick patrick Patrick. You see how many times

713
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:05,239
I can say that, I don't have to say that

714
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,599
I'm trying to be kind. Okay, I can just fucking

715
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,880
mute you. I can just mute you, I can just

716
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,320
drop you. It takes two seconds on my end. I'm

717
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,760
just trying to be kind and have a conversation with

718
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,760
another adult human being. Okay, so let's do that for

719
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,679
a second. I'm gonna take a breath. Ah, it'd be

720
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,880
great if you did the same. So here, here's what

721
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,719
I want to do. I want to try to focus

722
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,760
as much as possible, and I don't want to try

723
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,920
to go over you know, twelve different topics all at once. Right,

724
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,000
I'd love to just stick onto one thing, and specifically

725
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,920
I love to stick on the things in these types

726
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,280
of shows where we disagree so that we can kind

727
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,079
of hash them out for each other in the audience. Right,

728
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,039
I just want to say real quick, and then we'll

729
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:46,800
go to the thing that I think is most important.

730
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,119
Just because somebody has beliefs that you disagree with doesn't

731
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,440
mean they're in a cult, just plain and simple. There

732
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,559
are some really really good data and some really good

733
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:01,159
experts and research papers that are out there about what

734
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,480
does define a group as a cult or high control? Right,

735
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:09,840
And I think I think that's really important generally speaking.

736
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,159
The b I TE, the byte model, behavior, information thought,

737
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,079
and emotional control, those are the those are the methods

738
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:19,920
that are used. So not not all people that you

739
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,599
know just go to a church on a on a

740
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,440
Sunday or are in a cult. But let's go to this,

741
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,000
the evidential agnostic stuff. It sounds to me like that

742
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:32,079
might be where Patrick, hang on, just Patrick, look, I

743
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:34,519
can click this button. It takes all of five seconds

744
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,159
for me. You know you're muted. There's nothing you can

745
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,079
say right now. Let's not do this, okay, Let's just

746
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,280
we'll go back and forth. I'll say a quick thing,

747
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,679
you'll say a quick thing. Easy, peasy, Okay. So I'm

748
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,679
gonna unmute you. It's going to be a beat and

749
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,480
we'll talk. So the evidential agnostic thing seems to be

750
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,719
the place where we might have some disagreement, and I'd

751
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,880
love to try and figure that out as much as possible. Okay,

752
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:02,440
So are you saying that there is good reason to

753
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:07,280
believe that a god exists? Or are you saying more, hey,

754
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,679
we just can't categorically rule it out. Where do you

755
00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:11,159
sit on that.

756
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,039
Speaker 9: Kind of probably in between the two? Okay, you know,

757
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,880
you know, I mean I was an agnostics about a day,

758
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,960
so I lean towards agnostic as the base. Sure in

759
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:27,039
default position here.

760
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: Let me let me try, let me try it like this,

761
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:34,599
Let me try it like this. Yeah, so let me

762
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:37,679
try it like this. If somebody said, like, hey, a

763
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,280
god exists. That is actually this water bottle right here,

764
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:44,840
and if you pray to this water bottle, it'll do

765
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:48,800
absolutely everything that you ever ask of it. It's real,

766
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,559
it's a god. This is what I believe in. I mean,

767
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,239
you probably believe that this water bottle exists, but the

768
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,400
rest of the statements you probably don't agree with.

769
00:38:56,559 --> 00:38:59,079
Speaker 9: Right what I What I would say in that case

770
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,719
is that the finite thing. It's obviously a creation of humanity.

771
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,480
We know that as a fact. Next, now, does it

772
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,400
cover all other things in existence? No, there's only one

773
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,320
thing that covers all other things in existence.

774
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,199
Speaker 5: I wonder what the other?

775
00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:15,199
Speaker 1: What's what's that?

776
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:15,639
Speaker 2: Yeah?

777
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,119
Speaker 1: So what's that? What's that one thing that covers all

778
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:20,440
things that I'd love to what?

779
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,079
Speaker 9: What?

780
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:21,679
Speaker 2: What?

781
00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:23,119
Speaker 9: What do we call that?

782
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: Quantum mechanics?

783
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, the universe reality existence?

784
00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:28,159
Speaker 2: I don't know.

785
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: Man helped me out, genuinely. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, okay,

786
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:36,079
univer all right, I mean I'm not, I'm not.

787
00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 9: It covers all things. It's not a water bottle. It's

788
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,079
the source of in origin of everything else m l e.

789
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:49,159
Matter like and enters everything else that exists. I don't

790
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:50,199
take a water bottle.

791
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: Qualified Okay, I'm not sure that the analogy was really

792
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,840
taken in, but here's what I will say, Patrick, it

793
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,000
does kind of sound like in general, it does kind

794
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:05,440
of sound like in general you you were on a

795
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,119
similar page as as where we are in the sense

796
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:14,079
of specifically like the Christian God that doesn't seem to

797
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,599
have any good reason whatsoever to believe in it. That

798
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,320
seems kind of Although I'm just going to be real

799
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,639
honest here, I'm not positive what you were getting at

800
00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:27,199
with the call, but either way, I have the power

801
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,679
and I just click the button. So I'm just going

802
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,039
to move on. Thank you so much for calling as Patrick, Jim,

803
00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:36,719
any any thoughts you want to wrap up with that caller.

804
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:40,039
Speaker 2: You were far more generous within than I would have been,

805
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,000
because I have no idea what he was talking about.

806
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,039
Speaker 1: I was very confused for most of it. Yes, yes,

807
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,079
I will probably go back and watch that call, uh

808
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,519
and very much understand what I was thinking looking at

809
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:59,599
my face the whole time. So good news is, folks, again,

810
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:02,320
we'll have open lines and you can get your calls

811
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,840
in because we are taking and we got call screeners.

812
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,000
We got a wonderful crew hanging out in the back.

813
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,199
They are always doing something. I'm not thanking you yet. Crew,

814
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,280
don't go to the crew cam. Don't do it. I'm

815
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,039
not thanking you just yet. I really shouldn't yelled at them,

816
00:41:14,119 --> 00:41:17,480
but I knew if I said anything more about the

817
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,719
crew without like telling them that they would get ready

818
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,920
and they would go to it. So but yeah, I'm

819
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,079
gonna be Yeah, I'm gonna get yelled. That's so hard already.

820
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:29,239
But anyway, folks, we have a channel that houses all

821
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,119
of the shows of the ACA and audio podcast form.

822
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:35,719
Visit tiny dot cc slash a e in podcasts and

823
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,519
you can listen to all the latest shows from the

824
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:42,239
Atheist Experience, Talk He Then, Truth Wanted, and the nonprofits

825
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,159
all on one channel. And in fact, I have heard rumors,

826
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:49,239
I have heard rumors that on that channel you can

827
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,239
even find some older shows that have some really really

828
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,199
cool stuff on it too. So I've gone back and

829
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:59,679
watched watch some old Secular Sexuality before and that has

830
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,559
some good stuff in there. So if you guys got

831
00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:07,159
time hit hit that now, I guess we can we

832
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,000
can thank that amazing incredible, Oh my gosh, they put

833
00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:14,280
up with me for some fucking reason. Nobody knows why.

834
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:17,679
But we have a phenomenal crew behind the scenes that

835
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,519
is always working very hard. Just just face palming repeatedly

836
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:25,519
when I'm on and just desperate for me to finally

837
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:28,960
shut up. But we've got video operators, audio operators, note takers,

838
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,480
call screeners, chat moderators, people answering your emails. We have

839
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,760
people at the Free Thought Library that are taking care

840
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,440
of that, making sure that that is in good condition.

841
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,519
And yeah, all volunteers, guys. We've got a bunch of

842
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:44,960
volunteers here, given a lot of their time, a lot

843
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,280
of their efforts. So give me, give me a shout out,

844
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,559
you know, just say thank you too, or just send

845
00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:52,159
five dollars, like you know, that's a great way, you know,

846
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,320
like that's an awesome thing you could do. Yeah, you

847
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,320
could just you could just send a donation real quickly.

848
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,920
When was the last time you sent a donation? You know,

849
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:03,239
That's what we're here for. So we have we have

850
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,320
some other calls here, folks, but again, we do still

851
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,119
have open lines. So if you want to get your

852
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,039
calls in, man, do it earlier in the show. Because

853
00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:12,880
you were going to get more chance for us to

854
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,079
like talk with you and break stuff down. As we

855
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:16,559
get closer to the end of the show, we got

856
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:19,920
to be a little quicker. So we have a theist

857
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:24,039
Mike no pronouns given, is from South Carolina and wants

858
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:27,480
to talk about how atheists purposefully or purposely do not

859
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,440
want to understand the Bible. Well, hey, Mike, we are

860
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,559
going to bring you on the atheist experience with Jim

861
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:34,800
Barrows and secularity. What you got for us?

862
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 5: Hey, how are you guys doing today?

863
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:37,599
Speaker 2: Were doing good?

864
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: And you all hear me?

865
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 5: Sure, ka good?

866
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:43,039
Speaker 7: I was still staying here me but hey, I am

867
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,320
I'm following up with Jim. Jim we spoke a few

868
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,920
weeks ago. I think it was the last time you're on.

869
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,159
I'm not sure, but it was about It was really

870
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,840
simple what we were talking about, and it turned it

871
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,360
into a half hour. Forrest was until you know, there's

872
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,159
going to be commentary, but nothing was resolved. And then

873
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:04,480
we were trying to figure out what one word in

874
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:06,480
the Bible was, you know, it's love is patient, love

875
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:09,519
is kind to We got the proud and then Jim

876
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:11,960
and Forrest were both like, we have no way of

877
00:44:12,039 --> 00:44:12,920
knowing what they mean.

878
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 5: By proud proud.

879
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 7: It could be good pride like you're you're proud of

880
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,400
your kids. There's nothing, could be bad pride like you're

881
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,679
both just there's no way to know. And I was like, well, yeah,

882
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,679
sure there is, and you're like, Nope, there's.

883
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,079
Speaker 6: No way to know.

884
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,079
Speaker 7: And then that little bit got taken as Forrest is

885
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:30,639
on the little thumbnail it says clear's mud the Bible,

886
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:32,800
and it was like, yeah, well you know you can.

887
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a general statement that from from that,

888
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,079
from that statement, you can't get you can't get any

889
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:41,880
definite meaning, you know. So yeah, I vaguely remember that conversation.

890
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: I don't and I'm not positive by it because I

891
00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:47,239
wasn't I I wasn't there and I and I don't

892
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,159
remember the call. But I would just say I don't

893
00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:53,360
think what what Jim and Forrest were saying is that

894
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,679
in all cases there's no way to know. But from

895
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,280
this specific statement, oh, it doesn't seem like there's much

896
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,880
more information there. I would say, there are, There are

897
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,400
definitely ways that we can get more information about what

898
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:11,599
whoever the authors of various books of the Bible are.

899
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,639
But I don't know that we'll ever get perfect information, right,

900
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,280
I mean that's not unreasonable.

901
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 7: Well, I don't mean by perfect information, I mean an

902
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:23,840
understanding of what actually was was being said. And yet

903
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,239
sometimes it's like I don't know, like revelations.

904
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,599
Speaker 5: I don't know what's going on.

905
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,519
Speaker 7: I don't know sure, But this one was like really clear,

906
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,280
like you know, love is patient. It was saying things

907
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:33,960
that love isn't.

908
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:34,199
Speaker 2: It was.

909
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 7: It was listening, you know, things like love is patient,

910
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,320
that's good, it's kind, and it was. It was things

911
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,159
love isn't. It doesn't envy, it doesn't boast, and it

912
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,039
said it is not proud. And they're like, I mean,

913
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:45,920
just for the it made me think what Jim and

914
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:46,559
Forrest said.

915
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 5: I was like, well, how do you know? I mean,

916
00:45:48,039 --> 00:45:49,199
you've got to go back to context.

917
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,679
Speaker 7: You should look at different versions, you know King James.

918
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,760
Jim didn't like King James. But you look at different

919
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,320
versions of still and then you should look at the

920
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,360
actual go back to the in this case of the Greek.

921
00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:00,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, go ahead, Jim, what no.

922
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,519
Speaker 2: I was just agreeing with you. I still don't to me,

923
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:06,400
the King James Bible is the worst translated Bible of

924
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:09,400
all of them. And again you can look at just

925
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,320
simple little things like wherever says servant, you actually need

926
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,559
to translate that as slave. They do some other things.

927
00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:19,199
Their point wasn't to be accurate. Their point was to

928
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,480
make it more readable. And of course it was written

929
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,920
so long ago that we have a better understanding of

930
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,360
the Greek of the time. It's just it's horrible, and

931
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,320
I know and everybody swears by it, but really they

932
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,440
should be swearing at it. So yeah, but anyway, what what? Yeah?

933
00:46:35,559 --> 00:46:38,639
And the love is love is patient, love is kind.

934
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,719
That is so general as to absolutely be useless. What

935
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,119
do you mean by love is patient? And are there

936
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:48,840
times for the most lovely thing you can do is

937
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:49,840
to not be patient.

938
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 7: I prefer to stick just to this one word proud,

939
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:56,800
instead of branching off in other words, because we can't

940
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:57,679
get this one word right.

941
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,159
Speaker 5: There's no for any of us.

942
00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:02,119
Speaker 7: But I mean, the proud the Greek is to puff up,

943
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:04,719
in flate, to be proud. And then then Forres said,

944
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:05,960
well what if my hand's puffed up?

945
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,639
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, come on, guys.

946
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: It's just like your sure.

947
00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 7: I want to understand so you can say it's not

948
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:13,599
clear as mud or is clear as mud. You don't

949
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:15,199
have to do anything now, you don't have to respond

950
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:16,960
to it, because it's like it's all a mess.

951
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: And if I can, if I can, Mike, because I

952
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,079
think there's a I think there's a deeper conversation that's

953
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:24,360
trying to be had here, And I think that deeper

954
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,119
conversation is actually more important than the specific definition of

955
00:47:28,159 --> 00:47:30,800
the Greek word for proud, right, And I think that's

956
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:34,360
more important that we have that conversation, right, because I

957
00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:37,519
think I think what you're getting at here is that

958
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:41,199
there are times when hey, it feels like y'all are

959
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:43,800
bending over backwards, not to give a point to the

960
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,960
religious side, you know, and look, hang on just going

961
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:49,840
to take a big step back and say, yeah, fair, Yeah,

962
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,480
probably there's some times that things like that happen, right,

963
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:58,320
But overall, overall, I would argue that if you if

964
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,599
you look at the two sides, those that claim religious belief,

965
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,440
those that follow the teachings of the Bible whatever that means,

966
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,679
and believe in its truth, those people largely seem to

967
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,519
be the ones that don't really want to understand, is

968
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:16,960
what I find. And if you disagree with that, let's

969
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:19,840
let's talk about that. Let's let's try to hash that out,

970
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,000
because I don't think the definition of this one word

971
00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:24,679
pride is going to do as much in the conversation.

972
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: So the conversation SR was that it's so vague as

973
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,559
to be meaningless sure, and I believe Mike was attempting

974
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:35,800
to say, yes, it does have a meaning, and then

975
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,920
kept agreeing with it could mean either a good type

976
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,199
of pride or a bad type of pride. And I

977
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,960
would say that even with the Greek definition of puffed up,

978
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,840
that that doesn't solve the problem of that entire phrase

979
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,280
being so vague as to be useless, because I think

980
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,960
it's okay if you do something that for you is

981
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,119
really really rare, that doesn't happen very often, whatever it

982
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:01,800
might be, you should feel puffed up about that, You

983
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,480
should feel really good about that, you should take some

984
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:07,920
pride in that. So it doesn't help at all the

985
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,480
definition because you don't have anything else to go off

986
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:17,239
of from that, from even the same author on something

987
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,639
so vague as to be useless. So I don't think

988
00:49:20,639 --> 00:49:23,400
you've you've done yourself any favors by saying it means

989
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:23,960
puffed up.

990
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 7: And I don't know where to go with this, because

991
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,199
it's you go.

992
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: Where of the you go, wherever the fuck you want,

993
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:30,880
Mike take us, take us on a journey man.

994
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,519
Speaker 7: And you're trying to slip in the good.

995
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,159
Speaker 5: I give up on, Jim, the one I give up.

996
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:39,559
Speaker 7: If you go to the Greek and it says that

997
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:41,719
you're like, well, you know what, that's the good pride, like,

998
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:42,679
that's not what it's saying.

999
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 5: Is puffed up means bad? And then forced said, well,

1000
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,119
what if your hand is puffed up? Does it mean that?

1001
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: No? So how do you how do you get too

1002
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,239
puffed up as bad? The earlier point is, how do

1003
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,679
you get to pride is meaning puffed up is bad?

1004
00:49:56,039 --> 00:49:56,800
How do you get there?

1005
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 7: Okay, puffed up usually means you're full of yourself, And

1006
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,280
then I don't know anybody that takes that and like, hey.

1007
00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 5: That guy is so puffed up, it's so rocking, you

1008
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:08,159
know nobody.

1009
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 7: Does it means you're arrogant?

1010
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,119
Speaker 5: You know their equivalent, it's a it's a business.

1011
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 2: No, I I just gave you. I agree with you

1012
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,119
that it can mean that, but it could also mean

1013
00:50:18,119 --> 00:50:20,280
that I am all puffed up about something that it

1014
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,679
took me, you know, six months of work on and

1015
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,199
I finally finish it. I also feel puffed up about that.

1016
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,360
I would also use that phrase puffed up for something

1017
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,440
that I have done that was really good, at least

1018
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:30,719
for me.

1019
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 7: I don't recall anybody in my lifetime ever saying they

1020
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,320
were puffed up meaning a good thing that they meant

1021
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,880
they were. They did an accomplishment, and that's a different

1022
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,880
kind of pride, And I thought it looks to me

1023
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,239
like it's crystal clear. I don't know what to say here,

1024
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:45,719
stick with it, I.

1025
00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: Guess yeah, And I'm not saying you're wrong in your

1026
00:50:49,639 --> 00:50:52,880
in your assumptions. You can certainly interpret it that way,

1027
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,480
but my point is that it's so vague as to

1028
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:57,599
be useless because it can go either way.

1029
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,159
Speaker 7: Pardon, that's not a good there's I don't see any

1030
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:03,159
way to back that up with you bringing in the

1031
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:05,119
definition of a good pride, But good pride is never

1032
00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:05,760
puffed up.

1033
00:51:06,079 --> 00:51:07,519
Speaker 5: Anybody else want to comment on this?

1034
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: I would love to Mike, And what I would love

1035
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,679
is is if y'all two would just basically go cool

1036
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,559
and then just move the fuck on from this worthless conversation.

1037
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:18,639
In my opinion, because I think the more interesting conversation

1038
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:22,599
is not about this particular word and how the fuck

1039
00:51:22,639 --> 00:51:26,280
it's being used in this one fucking instance, Right, I

1040
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,960
think there is a broader conversation that needs to be had,

1041
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:32,880
and I think that is actually the crux of what

1042
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,079
you're trying to get at, which is, Hey, there is

1043
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:40,800
actually some times where people don't seem to be willing

1044
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,920
to give points to the other side when they're pretty

1045
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,800
fucking clear. Right, So let's talk about that. Where do

1046
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,239
you think that occurs? Please don't bring this one instance

1047
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,880
up again, Let's talk about something else, for God's sake.

1048
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:56,960
So where do you think that occurs where you're seeing

1049
00:51:57,039 --> 00:52:02,280
non religious people actively attempting to distort the information and

1050
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,000
the evidence about the Bible.

1051
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 7: There's another one that's much more important than Forrest has

1052
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,119
a clip on it where he talks it's Isaiah forty

1053
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:11,880
five to seven, and I formed the light to create

1054
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,239
the darkness. I bring prosperity and create disaster. I've learned

1055
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,440
to all these things. But the yeah, yeah, there's a

1056
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,639
couple versions where they say I bring prosperity and create

1057
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,480
I bring good and create evil, and then he's like, oh,

1058
00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:24,880
there it is God created evil.

1059
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 5: That's why this is important.

1060
00:52:26,159 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 7: Is because you can take I mean, if God creates evil,

1061
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,320
I don't want to follow them, that's sure.

1062
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,199
Speaker 1: Do you feel like do you feel like that is

1063
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,519
more of an issue? Because I understand I know that

1064
00:52:35,559 --> 00:52:38,440
specific point that you're talking about, Mike, and I also

1065
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,920
I'll just let you know it gets under my skin

1066
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:46,199
too because I know the interpretation. I understand why that

1067
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,280
passage is in Isaiah. I've listened to the ancient Eary

1068
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,800
scholars that have talked about that and the way that

1069
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:57,159
it uses the word evil there or chaos or destruction, disaster,

1070
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,920
whatever the fucking it doesn't matter, right, get where you're

1071
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:04,440
coming from on that particular point. Right, Here's here's what

1072
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,599
I want to ask, though, do you feel like that

1073
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,239
issue is really something that's a problem with the non

1074
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,159
religious side or something that's more of a problem with

1075
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:14,440
the religious side.

1076
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 7: I guess the religious side is like, wait a minute,

1077
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,199
our God's not evil, But then the other people, a

1078
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:22,239
lot of people just don't care about the Bible or

1079
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:23,000
think about it.

1080
00:53:23,039 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 5: But then Forrest was using it. He's weaponizing it as.

1081
00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: Hey, man, now, but Forrest doesn't fucking here man, Forrest

1082
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,119
is a great guy. He's very smart, he's got a

1083
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:32,400
lot of shit. Everybody loves him. Don't talk about him.

1084
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,920
Jim's here, I'm here. Let's the three of us talk, Mike.

1085
00:53:35,199 --> 00:53:37,400
We're all adults, we're all smart people. Come on, we

1086
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,880
got this man. If you got a problem with Forrest

1087
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,480
called Forest, you know, he's always, always down, never had

1088
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,199
a bad day. So look, it seems to me that

1089
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,760
when we try to do this textual criticism, when we

1090
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,239
try to break down the history, we try to understand

1091
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,519
the author's intent. More often than not, it seems that

1092
00:53:56,639 --> 00:54:00,280
the information that is pretty damn clear is stuff that

1093
00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:03,800
doesn't hold up the religious side of the argument more

1094
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,480
so than not holding up the non religious side. And

1095
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:10,119
between the two camps. My experience, and please tell me

1096
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:13,760
if you're experiencing different, Mike, My experience has been the

1097
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:19,360
religious people are more unlikely to be interested in that material.

1098
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:20,719
Do you think I'm wrong there?

1099
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:21,199
Speaker 2: Wow?

1100
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 7: I guess I can't speak for other people. It got

1101
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,079
me going because when I first heard that, you know,

1102
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,880
God deevil, I was like, I better research this because

1103
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,519
this is this is a big deal. And then the

1104
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,239
proud thing with Jim and you know, And I was like, well,

1105
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,079
if we can't agree on Proud, then we can't agree

1106
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:39,360
on anything. And you know Jim saying there's servant and

1107
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,280
slave in the Bible. It's like that we can't agree

1108
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,000
on proud. How do you know it's servant. I mean

1109
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:44,440
he loses credibility if he.

1110
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:45,519
Speaker 5: Can't do that.

1111
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 7: I mean, there's there's just nothing to talk about in

1112
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,039
the Bible because the key phrases are like, nah, it vague.

1113
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:53,519
It's like, really you can't figure out which pride it is?

1114
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:55,440
The good pridit that you just can't figure it out.

1115
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're misrepresenting my point. My point is is

1116
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,320
that phrase is or that whole piece of poetry is

1117
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,679
so vague as to be useless. I'm not saying the

1118
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,400
entire Bible is, and you're saying I'm saying that. That's

1119
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,760
putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my position. I

1120
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,639
don't appreciate that. So when you need to make you know,

1121
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,559
and then we go and we show you this forty

1122
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:21,519
five to seven where he says I create I make

1123
00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:24,320
peace and create evil. I don't know, you know, that

1124
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,960
means he's not omni benevolent. So how do you what

1125
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,119
translation could you put to being to God not being

1126
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:33,320
evil when he admits that he creates it.

1127
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a couple versions that they create evil, and

1128
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,320
then most of them say he creates you know, calamity

1129
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,679
and you know calamity? Is is what kind of you

1130
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,159
know calamity?

1131
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:47,639
Speaker 2: We'll go with that one. I was creating calamity in

1132
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,000
line with being omni benevolent. I don't know.

1133
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:52,519
Speaker 7: I can create calamity too, so I guess a lot

1134
00:55:52,519 --> 00:55:53,199
of people can do it.

1135
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 5: I don't know what you're asking.

1136
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: Are you omni benevolent?

1137
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,039
Speaker 2: So do you know what the word is? So? Do

1138
00:55:57,119 --> 00:55:59,320
you do you believe that your God is omni benevolent?

1139
00:55:59,400 --> 00:55:59,840
All good?

1140
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,599
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah? I would say yeah, he is all good?

1141
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is creating calamity a good thing or a bad?

1142
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,039
Speaker 7: God can't do anything that's even a little bit irritating.

1143
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: So is creating a calamity a good thing or a

1144
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:11,360
bad thing?

1145
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 5: Not the best in somebody?

1146
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? But doesn't does it creating a calamity automatically mean

1147
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,559
that bad things are happening to people? But isn't creating

1148
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:22,280
a calamity meaning that bad things are happening to people?

1149
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,480
Doesn't it mean that if you create a calamity, bad

1150
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:26,960
things are happening to people.

1151
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 7: Now, uncomfortable thing? I think bad is a poor choice

1152
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:29,880
of words.

1153
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:34,159
Speaker 2: Okay, what choice of words would you like?

1154
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 5: Uncomfortable?

1155
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,679
Speaker 2: Okay? So the common usage of the word is an

1156
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:44,599
event causing great and often sudden damage or distress. So

1157
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:48,079
how does creating damage or distress a good thing? If

1158
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:49,360
you're creating them to people?

1159
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 7: That's what happens on a football field, you create damage

1160
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,920
and distress the other team to find out who's better.

1161
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 1: It's how you measure character is I don't think that's

1162
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,400
I don't think that's a fair response, my king.

1163
00:56:59,639 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say it's not fair either, because it's

1164
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:03,840
an event.

1165
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,039
Speaker 1: Right right, as opposed to the literal like fabric of

1166
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:10,320
space time being created by a being. Also, this is

1167
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,760
the route you're going down, by the way, Okay, I

1168
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,679
just want to I want to help flag this for

1169
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,920
you so you don't fall into this trap in a

1170
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,719
few seconds. Okay, But if you go down this route,

1171
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,719
what you're saying is that when you watch a child

1172
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,800
get murdered in front of you, you have to accept

1173
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,199
that is a good thing, because it means that it

1174
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:31,840
is part of God's ultimate destiny and plan to bring

1175
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,320
out the best in humanity and all of that. And

1176
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,599
if what you're saying is that your God has to

1177
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:42,800
cause deep amounts of suffering and pain and shit constantly,

1178
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:45,440
that's a really shitty God and it's not omni benevolence.

1179
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,920
So I'm just trying to help you out before you

1180
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,920
fall into that pitthole five seconds from now.

1181
00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 7: So okay, well, that pit hole that the big precursor

1182
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,880
is has to God doesn't have to do it.

1183
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: We're actually yes he does. If it happens, yes he does.

1184
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,960
If he sanctions it, yes he does. All the craft

1185
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,440
that goes on it has to happen because God's sanctioned.

1186
00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And just to use your analogy just because we

1187
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,039
use and I don't agree with any of this, but

1188
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:11,960
just we'll go with your analogy just because we use

1189
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,559
footballs to increase character and at foot playing football create

1190
00:58:16,679 --> 00:58:19,000
some sort of damage and distress on the human body.

1191
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,960
That's because we're limited beings. Your God is also omnipotent,

1192
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:24,519
is he not?

1193
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 5: He is aware of everything. That's my understanding yet.

1194
00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:31,199
Speaker 2: Okay, so he has an option other than football to

1195
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,920
test people's character does he not.

1196
00:58:33,239 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 5: He's got your whole lifetime.

1197
00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:38,079
Speaker 2: So the answer is yes. So this is the problem

1198
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:42,880
you have with the omnib benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God is

1199
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,440
that you cannot square those three things with the way

1200
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,159
the world is today. You can't. You cannot have an

1201
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:53,159
omnib benevolent God because bad things happen to people. However

1202
00:58:53,239 --> 00:58:55,079
you want to define bad, and I will leave that

1203
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:58,000
up to you. If you think bad things exist in

1204
00:58:58,039 --> 00:59:02,000
the world, then that does not square with an omnibanovol

1205
00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:05,000
in God who knows about it because he's omniscient and

1206
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:08,000
has the power to change it. Because he's omnipotent, you

1207
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,119
can't square those things. Your God cannot logically exist.

1208
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 5: Okay, I disagree. I'll tell you why.

1209
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:18,199
Speaker 7: In heaven, none of this crap is going to go on.

1210
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,480
But here is where you're deciding if you want to

1211
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:21,280
be with God or not.

1212
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 5: Be with God.

1213
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:25,119
Speaker 7: And our free will is what brings a lot of

1214
00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:26,920
the crap into the world. And God doesn't have to

1215
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,559
do much of anything that people do it.

1216
00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: So your God is only limited to doing things that

1217
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:33,760
affect free will.

1218
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: So he's not omnipotent, and he's not omni benevolent because

1219
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:39,239
he could have made heaven here, but chows not to.

1220
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,039
Speaker 7: Pull back and let us use free will.

1221
00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: So again you are saying that your God is not

1222
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:48,920
omnive omnipotent because the only option he has is to

1223
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,480
affect human beings free will.

1224
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 5: He is omnipotent.

1225
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 7: It's like an adult letting a child stand up and

1226
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:56,079
fall down, and stand up and fall down.

1227
00:59:56,119 --> 00:59:57,519
Speaker 5: Even though you could save that kid.

1228
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,519
Speaker 2: Everyone don't.

1229
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:03,239
Speaker 1: I don't have the ability. Yeah, I don't have the

1230
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,159
ability to do anything else. I don't have the ability

1231
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:09,159
to do anything else. I am a fallible, mortal being. Also,

1232
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,880
if your God makes heaven and all of these problems

1233
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,199
don't exist there, then what you're saying is your God

1234
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,559
is not on the benevolent. And what you're agreeing to

1235
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:18,920
is what I said just a second ago. The trap

1236
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,840
you fell right into, which is children being murdered in

1237
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,599
front of you. You have to celebrate that now by

1238
01:00:24,639 --> 01:00:27,760
this line of logic, because it is the only way

1239
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,440
that God could give us an opportunity to choose to

1240
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,679
be with him with our free will, under your understanding,

1241
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,960
and then get into heaven. It makes your God look

1242
01:00:36,039 --> 01:00:38,400
like a real schmuck, dude, And I don't think that's

1243
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:39,400
the God you believe in.

1244
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 7: No, you're mischaracterizing it. You don't have to celebrate.

1245
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:45,239
Speaker 1: Things of pain because we're not in ns you do.

1246
01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:48,280
Doesn't make any sense what you do in your understanding.

1247
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,119
You have to celebrate the pain and the suffering you

1248
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:54,599
do in your understanding because without the pain and suffering

1249
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,000
as small or as great, you never get to the

1250
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:01,679
good things only in your view? Is that the case?

1251
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,320
If you slightly adjust your view, you don't have to

1252
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,000
deal with that. Most believers in God, most believers in

1253
01:01:09,079 --> 01:01:11,800
the Christian God, do not have to worry about this.

1254
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,840
But from the statements you have made today, Mike, you

1255
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,159
do you have to celebrate the suffering. And I don't

1256
01:01:18,199 --> 01:01:19,320
think you agree with that.

1257
01:01:19,679 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 7: I don't agree with the suffering, but well, I mean,

1258
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:24,800
you're verry mischaracterized.

1259
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: Again.

1260
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: You don't go back and watch Well that waid it

1261
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:27,920
out for you.

1262
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:30,119
Speaker 5: Suffer at all.

1263
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 2: You're arguing for God that is omnipotent, because you say

1264
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,800
he can't do anything that will affect free will, and

1265
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,599
so you're limiting him to things that only affect free will,

1266
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,719
which is really really bad and not good argument. And

1267
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,639
then you're saying that in heaven none of this happens,

1268
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,280
except that the only way that could happen in heaven,

1269
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,559
according to you, is that God removes free will. Well,

1270
01:01:51,559 --> 01:01:54,360
that doesn't make any sense because Satan made a choice

1271
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,760
to rebel against God, so free will exists in heaven.

1272
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,280
So no matter how you argue this, you get hung

1273
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,000
up on these three traits that you're trying to reconcile

1274
01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:07,000
that cannot be reconciled, and you're arguing for a God

1275
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:08,440
that is less than the Omnigod.

1276
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:11,199
Speaker 5: We explain, go for it, answer your question. Go for

1277
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,320
it in heaven.

1278
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 7: It looks like there isn't going to be free will.

1279
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:16,880
Everybody's just going to do the right thing because we

1280
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,360
made our choice now and I've made my choice.

1281
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: So how did Satan rebel against God?

1282
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 5: Something away from God's will?

1283
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,679
Speaker 2: How did Satan rebel against God? If we have free

1284
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,800
will and everyone's going to make a choice to stay

1285
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,960
with God, because that doesn't square now all of a sudden.

1286
01:02:32,039 --> 01:02:34,679
Speaker 7: Okay, this is you maybe know this, maybe don't, But

1287
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:36,280
Satan and.

1288
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 5: These angels and all this, there are different people.

1289
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: People.

1290
01:02:39,559 --> 01:02:42,119
Speaker 7: Actually we actually have a part of God. We're we're

1291
01:02:42,159 --> 01:02:44,960
like family, whereas the other ones are like magnificent created

1292
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:45,840
creatures and.

1293
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,159
Speaker 5: Then they made a choice. They don't get redeemed. We do.

1294
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,039
Speaker 7: I don't quite understand that. But we are different from

1295
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:54,079
them that we're actually like part of God in heaven,

1296
01:02:54,199 --> 01:02:56,079
whereas they're creatures there.

1297
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,199
Speaker 5: They're magnificent, they're amazing.

1298
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,239
Speaker 2: Really, But I don't really feel like that help.

1299
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,199
Speaker 1: It's just a claim, Yeah.

1300
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,039
Speaker 2: Well we're done now. Yeah, I'm trying to say.

1301
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: I get that you're saying that. That's just basically special

1302
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,079
pleading is what you're getting to like. So it doesn't matter.

1303
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:15,239
It's still a logical fallacy. It still doesn't address all

1304
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,760
of the numerous problems again that I explicitly tried to

1305
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,000
warn you about and said, hey man, this is a problem.

1306
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:24,320
You then just brought up the possibility. So you said

1307
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,119
two things back to back, and I just want to

1308
01:03:26,119 --> 01:03:28,679
point them out to you because they are in fact contradictory.

1309
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,519
The first thing that you said was it seems like

1310
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:33,800
there is no free will in heaven. Well, if that's

1311
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,199
the case, that's a bigger problem for you. But then

1312
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:39,039
the next thing that you said, Mike was we just

1313
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,440
all choose to do the right thing. So what you're

1314
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,760
saying is that there is actually free will, contradicting the

1315
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,440
first thing you said at the beginning of the statement.

1316
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:49,519
But then if there is free will and we just

1317
01:03:49,519 --> 01:03:51,719
all choose to do the right thing, then your God's

1318
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:54,639
not omni benevolent because he could have made a world

1319
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,079
like that from the beginning. And once again, the only

1320
01:03:58,119 --> 01:04:01,400
way to accept the bad things in this universe, in

1321
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,079
your view that you've committed to, is to celebrate the

1322
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:09,119
bad things because without them we couldn't be better. That's

1323
01:04:09,159 --> 01:04:12,559
the view you have expressed on this call multiple times.

1324
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 5: So just saying, can I answer that as well?

1325
01:04:16,679 --> 01:04:19,679
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, Mike, waiting for you.

1326
01:04:19,639 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: To do I said, yes, all right.

1327
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 7: By the way, these are these are the good questions.

1328
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: I uh, yeah, this is deep ship.

1329
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 7: I'm not yeah, this is really good, And I'm not

1330
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,320
saying I have all the answers me either. Yeah, No,

1331
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,599
this is I've thought about this up a lot. What

1332
01:04:35,639 --> 01:04:37,440
you're just saying is like, why did he just do

1333
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,679
it from the beginning, And the reason is that we're

1334
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,800
he didn't want robots who just automatically chose free will.

1335
01:04:43,039 --> 01:04:45,559
He so so that we'd have a time period where

1336
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:46,960
we get to choose, do you want to be with

1337
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:48,199
God or not be with God?

1338
01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this question and then you know,

1339
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,360
how do you reconcile us having free will in heaven

1340
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,920
angel and not having and having free will here and

1341
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,679
heaven we're going to be making the right choices? What what what

1342
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:05,159
is the difference between making right choices now versus heaven?

1343
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,199
Why do we need pain and suffering and all the

1344
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:10,960
negative stuff happening now and not in heaven to make

1345
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:11,599
good choices?

1346
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 5: But we don't need pain to make good choice. We

1347
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,079
got off on a topic on that.

1348
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:17,519
Speaker 7: But in heaven, yeah, it's like you're not going to

1349
01:05:17,559 --> 01:05:19,400
have free will. You're just gonna You're just gonna want

1350
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,320
to do the right thing. But where you're choosing, we

1351
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,440
have free will. Now do you want to do the

1352
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,320
good things? Do you want to do God's will or

1353
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:25,760
you want.

1354
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 5: To do your will? That's what it really is. Who

1355
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:28,360
do you want to be in charge of you?

1356
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 2: Or God?

1357
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,639
Speaker 7: And if you choose God, then he will feel you

1358
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,360
so that you don't sin anymore. And if not, then

1359
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:34,599
He's going to put you in a place where he

1360
01:05:34,599 --> 01:05:36,159
doesn't have to see you anymore. And it's not going

1361
01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:38,719
to be Apparently it's not fun. People say it's a party.

1362
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,440
Other people say not. I would say not for help,

1363
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:43,280
But it's where God does have to deal with you anymore.

1364
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 5: You don't deal with him. I mean a lot of people.

1365
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:45,360
I hate God.

1366
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 2: So why can't he do that now?

1367
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 5: There will?

1368
01:05:48,039 --> 01:05:50,599
Speaker 2: Why can't he just go? Everybody make a choice. You

1369
01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:52,239
can go with me or you go that you take

1370
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,199
the door on the left, door on the right. Why

1371
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:55,440
can't you just do that now? Well?

1372
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 5: I think he is.

1373
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:58,519
Speaker 7: We're living our lifetimes, we're deciding, we're doing it right now.

1374
01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:01,119
Speaker 2: Okay, so but now you running back into the exact

1375
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:04,159
same question I asked earlier. Why is he doing it now?

1376
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,119
And we don't have to do it when we're in

1377
01:06:06,159 --> 01:06:08,719
heaven And saying that we've already made the choice doesn't

1378
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,519
get you anywhere because we could unchoose the choice in

1379
01:06:11,559 --> 01:06:14,039
heaven just as easily as we do now. The free

1380
01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:17,159
will still exists, right except in heaven, we don't have

1381
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:20,480
any pain to teach us. And apparently, according to you,

1382
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:23,840
because God creating calamity is a good thing, that's how

1383
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,000
he teaches envy.

1384
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not always a good thing.

1385
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,679
Speaker 7: I mean, Gee, you don't need bad things all the time,

1386
01:06:28,679 --> 01:06:29,320
you get good things.

1387
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,079
Speaker 5: You're like, I'm going to do more of that. That

1388
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:31,519
makes sense.

1389
01:06:31,559 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 7: You don't need calamity all the time. But he gets

1390
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:35,840
your attention with calamity. But then we can plament each

1391
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,639
other too, and it's just meaningless too. Some pain is like,

1392
01:06:38,679 --> 01:06:41,119
oh that was worthless, you know, somebody shoots somebody that

1393
01:06:41,199 --> 01:06:41,719
was stupid.

1394
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: Again, we are not omnipotent, omnibou one, omniscient beings, so

1395
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,559
anything we do is just what we expect because we're

1396
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:53,079
not any of those three things. So the question isn't

1397
01:06:53,079 --> 01:06:54,920
whether we do it. The question is is why it

1398
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:58,360
is one God allow it or two. As we've seen

1399
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,119
in the Bible from the the Isaiah passage, he does it,

1400
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:03,400
and he created.

1401
01:07:03,039 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 5: It, creat all calamities. That what you're saying, he creates

1402
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:07,159
some you'll.

1403
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,079
Speaker 2: Do it, well, that's what Isaiah says.

1404
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,639
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's allowed to get your attention. Sometimes sometimes you

1405
01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:14,599
need to get the bottom before you start thinking. When

1406
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:16,719
life's great, I don't self analyze very much.

1407
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:21,199
Speaker 1: Sure, can I just just ask just a direct question, Mike,

1408
01:07:21,239 --> 01:07:23,400
because I just want to say this first off, I

1409
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,800
do I think you and I have spoken before. I

1410
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,199
think all three of us have had conversation before. And

1411
01:07:28,239 --> 01:07:31,440
I got to say, I've really enjoyed the conversation at parts,

1412
01:07:31,719 --> 01:07:34,679
and I think I think you are thinking about stuff.

1413
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:39,920
You are actively interested in digging these digging into all

1414
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,159
the different interpretations and all the different history. I love

1415
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:46,480
the philosophy, love it all, man, But truly, I want

1416
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:50,360
to ask, has anything in this conversation? Was anything in

1417
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,480
this conversation what actually led you to believe in the

1418
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,920
first place? Be is any of this stuff that you

1419
01:07:56,119 --> 01:07:58,440
went through before believing in God?

1420
01:07:59,360 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 2: What made me?

1421
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:02,679
Speaker 7: If you're talking about like calamity, I didn't really have

1422
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:05,239
a calamity. I just was getting ready to graduate from college,

1423
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,360
and you know, I spent my whole life I got

1424
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,639
to focus, I gotta study, I gotta do this. And

1425
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,920
I was there and I was like, now what, I'm

1426
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,039
just going to get a job and then retire, And.

1427
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:14,679
Speaker 5: That was right.

1428
01:08:14,679 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: So right. So what I'm when I'm asking, when I'm

1429
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:19,279
asking real quick to clarify, Mike, when I'm what I'm

1430
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:22,520
getting at is did you have a period of time

1431
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,279
in your life where without believing in a God, without

1432
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:30,199
accepting the Bible is true, not thinking that Jesus rose

1433
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,239
all that shit and sat down and went, man, you

1434
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:35,359
know what, let me think about this for a second.

1435
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,079
We got to have free will here because otherwise, like,

1436
01:08:38,119 --> 01:08:39,720
how are we ever going to get better? And the

1437
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,920
fact that there's free will in heaven doesn't matter because

1438
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,079
maybe there's not free will and God is omni benevolent

1439
01:08:44,119 --> 01:08:46,960
and all the did you do any of that? Was

1440
01:08:47,199 --> 01:08:50,760
any of this part of the process of you actually

1441
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,119
coming to this belief? Yeah? What what was that thing?

1442
01:08:54,239 --> 01:08:54,399
Speaker 6: Man?

1443
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,079
Speaker 1: What was that thing that made you start believing?

1444
01:08:57,319 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're we're in I just felt like life is meaningless. Okay,

1445
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,680
I could do everything right, it just wasn't satisfying.

1446
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: I was sure, sure, fine, fine, that's I get that feeling. Man,

1447
01:09:09,159 --> 01:09:11,439
I've had that feeling. Other people have had that feeling

1448
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:14,960
as human beings. Apparently, at least from the period of

1449
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,920
time that we've been recording shit, apparently we've all kind

1450
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,520
of had that feeling at least once or twice. Is

1451
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,279
having that feeling alone a good reason to accept that

1452
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:26,159
a god exists?

1453
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 5: I don't think so.

1454
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, me only your.

1455
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 7: I think life is empty or whatever? Yeah, what what

1456
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,039
got me was when I is not going to like this.

1457
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:37,920
But when I started looking at the design of like

1458
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,439
the human body and resiratorial system and everything.

1459
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:41,359
Speaker 5: You know, like all your.

1460
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 7: Arteries are actually tubes and if they were just off

1461
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,640
and the tube was closed, you'd be dead. And I

1462
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:47,279
was like, oh man, this is you know, I was

1463
01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:49,960
an engineer, so this is all this. Somebody had designed this.

1464
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 5: You knew what there is.

1465
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 1: Is it a complexity?

1466
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,319
Speaker 5: Because I didn't want to believe in a god. I

1467
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:54,039
was like, this is crap.

1468
01:09:54,079 --> 01:09:54,560
Speaker 2: I don't believe.

1469
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is it the complexity of the design that you're saying,

1470
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,720
because because of how intricate it is, it has to

1471
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:01,800
be designed.

1472
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:03,039
Speaker 5: What least thee engineering?

1473
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,159
Speaker 1: Well, no, hang on, that's a totally different hang on, Mike, Mike, Mike,

1474
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:08,560
listen to exactly what I'm saying. I know we're having

1475
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,239
a little bit of a delay and it's kind of hard,

1476
01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:12,800
so I'm just gonna keep rambling for a second. I

1477
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,000
think we're probably caught up now. So here's what I'm asking,

1478
01:10:16,359 --> 01:10:21,640
very explicitly. Is it because of the complex nature of

1479
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,159
the things you're looking at? You mentioned the human body.

1480
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,920
Is it the complexity that you see that makes you

1481
01:10:29,119 --> 01:10:31,880
say it's designed, because I have a follow up, So

1482
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:33,720
just a real quick yes or no would be great.

1483
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean things could be complex, but but like

1484
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,199
how you can breathe automatically and then you can take

1485
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:40,119
the breath, and then.

1486
01:10:40,119 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: We can't breathe automatically because there's fluid in your lungs.

1487
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,079
So hang on, Mike, I'm gonna mute you. I'm so sorry.

1488
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:47,600
I have tried desperately not to do that this whole time,

1489
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:49,840
but I don't want to have to wait because here's

1490
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:51,920
my follow up, because I'm gonna run through this again

1491
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,560
real quick. It seems to me like what you're saying

1492
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,600
is yeah, kind of the intricate and complex nature of

1493
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,600
the things that I'm looking at, like, for example, the

1494
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:06,720
human body, trees, snowflakes, all that shit, the complexity makes

1495
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,880
me get to the conclusion it must be designed. So

1496
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,520
here's my question. Look at this, there's a hairtie that

1497
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,039
I use, pretty fucking simple. Is that designed? Are simple

1498
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:19,640
things designed? I'm going to unmute you. Are simple things designed?

1499
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,079
Speaker 7: Yeah, it depends on what it is. Like a snowflake

1500
01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:25,279
is really complex, but it's not designed. So you can

1501
01:11:25,319 --> 01:11:26,279
go both ways on that.

1502
01:11:26,399 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 12: Well, okay, question, Yeah, go ahead, go Ahea's kind of

1503
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:36,199
my question is is a Rube Goldberg design a good

1504
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:37,359
design or bad design?

1505
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:40,119
Speaker 2: If it's a Rube Goldberg machine.

1506
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 5: Goldberg, if it works, I guess it's a good design.

1507
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,520
Speaker 7: But they always look so crappy. So that's a funny example.

1508
01:11:46,319 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 2: Right, because because what's going what's going on with them

1509
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:49,720
that makes them look like.

1510
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 5: That, it's the mouse trap.

1511
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 2: They're overly complex, right there are entirely too complex, needlessly right, Okay,

1512
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:03,079
So complexity is not necessarily a sign of design or

1513
01:12:03,119 --> 01:12:06,359
even good design. What is I mean? But there is

1514
01:12:06,399 --> 01:12:09,960
one thing that is almost always the sign of good

1515
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,640
engineering or good design, and that is is it as

1516
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,600
simple as it possibly can? And no simpler? And I

1517
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,760
don't think there's a single part of the human body

1518
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,600
where you can go that's the case. You just look

1519
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,720
at the human eyeball. We have much simpler, better designs

1520
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:28,439
than the human eyeball. We've made them. So why has

1521
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,680
the human eyeball got this aqueous solution? It has low resolution,

1522
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:36,560
it has a tendency to see things that aren't really there.

1523
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:40,319
Why is it such an overly complex design compared to

1524
01:12:40,359 --> 01:12:40,960
what we've met.

1525
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:44,079
Speaker 7: You understand, there's like millions, there is billions of nerve

1526
01:12:44,199 --> 01:12:44,760
endings on the.

1527
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:45,319
Speaker 5: Back of the eye.

1528
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 7: They're all lined up and they all receive it and

1529
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:48,359
they don't cross.

1530
01:12:48,119 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 2: Each other, and it's still bad engineering.

1531
01:12:50,199 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 5: I don't do it.

1532
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 2: It's still bad engineering.

1533
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:54,039
Speaker 4: Ya.

1534
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 1: Literally both of us. Both of us have shitty vision.

1535
01:12:58,359 --> 01:13:01,760
He's wearing glasses, I'm wearing con like. We both have bad.

1536
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 2: Eyes because the way the eye focuses is overly complex.

1537
01:13:06,239 --> 01:13:09,520
The way the eye does everything is overly complex, right,

1538
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:14,039
all the chemical reactions. What's simpler a camera or the

1539
01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:18,039
camera on my iPhone or the human eyeball? What's simpler?

1540
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 7: I would say that your camera can't repair itself, so

1541
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,600
the human eyeball is more complex.

1542
01:13:23,239 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 2: The human eyeball repairs itself. Really, it repairs itself.

1543
01:13:28,199 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: Not super well.

1544
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 2: I'm something funny.

1545
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:35,319
Speaker 1: Look, I think, Look.

1546
01:13:35,239 --> 01:13:38,279
Speaker 2: Does the retina detach? Yes, it does? Does it ever

1547
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:43,640
heal itself in some cases? Yest that doesn't. But that

1548
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,640
doesn't answer the question what is simpler the human eyeball

1549
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:48,479
or the camera on my iPhone?

1550
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 7: The camera on your iPhone can't repair itself, so you

1551
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,600
can't do the same things as the human eyeball.

1552
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 2: That's not an answer to the question. Yeah, I'm asking

1553
01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:00,359
what's simpler. I'm not asking about self repair capabilities, asking

1554
01:14:00,399 --> 01:14:01,920
about what is simpler.

1555
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 7: As far as less molecules, because they don't do the

1556
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,000
same thing I hang on hang on hangers.

1557
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 2: As they do. They both receive light and interpret it.

1558
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Let's let's look, we've been going at

1559
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,199
this for almost forty minutes, Mike. Let's put this on

1560
01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:17,000
pause and we'll pick it up another time when you

1561
01:14:17,039 --> 01:14:20,119
call back in. Cause again, I think this has been

1562
01:14:20,159 --> 01:14:22,279
a I think this has been a largely good call,

1563
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,640
and I think there's a lot more stuff that we've

1564
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,920
already been going for about forty minutes. I don't want

1565
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,079
us to get to a place where, you know, we're

1566
01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:32,800
just kind of rambling about about silliness here. There's a

1567
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,600
lot of good stuff. There's a lot of stuff to

1568
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,319
go back. I will tell you this, man, I do this, okay,

1569
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,680
especially in calls where I get off of them and

1570
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:43,520
I'm like, man, don't they weren't they weren't fucking listening

1571
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,199
to me. You know, I'll go back and I'll rewatch it,

1572
01:14:46,279 --> 01:14:49,560
and I'll listen to everything that everybody says and try

1573
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,800
to go Okay, wait, I did say that thing wrong,

1574
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,000
you know, because I do. I say stuff wrong all

1575
01:14:54,039 --> 01:14:55,640
the time. I think I said something wrong in the

1576
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,720
last call. I just mixed up a word or two.

1577
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,600
You know, most people probably knew what the fuck I

1578
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,760
was talking about, but technically I said something wrong. So

1579
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,920
any who, I suggest take a second, give it a

1580
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:07,359
couple of days, go back watch it, give us a

1581
01:15:07,359 --> 01:15:09,600
call next time you see us on because yeah, I

1582
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:10,760
think this is a pretty good call. I think you're

1583
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:12,760
pretty good interlocker to Mike. So I'm going to drop

1584
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,439
you real fast, and I'm so sorry. It's going to

1585
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,159
be rude and abrupt, and you probably will cut you

1586
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:19,319
off and I'm very very sorry about that. But again,

1587
01:15:19,359 --> 01:15:20,640
we were going pretty good there.

1588
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 2: We had.

1589
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: We had about forty minutes. I thought we I thought

1590
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,680
we had. I thought we had a good kind of

1591
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,079
back and forth and we were kind of able to

1592
01:15:27,079 --> 01:15:29,760
make some progress. I am always I.

1593
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 2: Just think it's really I always think it's kind of

1594
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:35,520
funny that every time an atheist and a any omnium

1595
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,439
benevolent you know, tri omni god believer get into a conversation,

1596
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,279
we always end up arguing for the omni good right,

1597
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:45,880
and they end up arguing for the left an omnigod.

1598
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:47,920
It's just it's funny the way that always works out.

1599
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

1600
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:50,239
Speaker 2: I've heard.

1601
01:15:50,359 --> 01:15:54,159
Speaker 1: I've heard people say atheists are more fundamental than most

1602
01:15:54,199 --> 01:15:57,399
of the believers, you know, because we're like, we're so like, no,

1603
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,880
this is what the Koran says, like this is you know. Yeah,

1604
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,399
but yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, man, I get it.

1605
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:08,880
In fairness though again, honestly, time after time after time, y'all,

1606
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:11,279
when we do when we do polls, we find the

1607
01:16:11,279 --> 01:16:13,960
believers of a religion and the critics of the religion.

1608
01:16:14,199 --> 01:16:16,560
Between the two, the second group is the one that's

1609
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,840
actually read most of the documentation for the religion. So

1610
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,319
you know, that's just an interesting statistic. I don't know

1611
01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:27,279
if there's causation, but they're sure is correlation.

1612
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:28,199
Speaker 2: So it's cooling.

1613
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 1: We are gonna go we are gonna go out to

1614
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,279
Massachusetts an We're gonna talk to Casey. He him is

1615
01:16:36,319 --> 01:16:38,680
an atheist, wants to talk to us. Says that they're

1616
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,239
a bit of a new atheist. So hey, we are

1617
01:16:41,239 --> 01:16:43,880
gonna bring you on. Casey. You are chatting with secularity

1618
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:45,119
and Jim Barrows, what's up?

1619
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:48,359
Speaker 10: Oh, glad, glad, how are you guys doing? So I

1620
01:16:48,399 --> 01:16:49,159
have a question.

1621
01:16:49,199 --> 01:16:51,119
Speaker 8: It's a little bit complicated, but I'm gonna try to

1622
01:16:51,359 --> 01:16:54,199
make it quick so you guys could understand a little background.

1623
01:16:54,399 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 10: Twenty six years.

1624
01:16:55,279 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 8: So, being Muslim, joined the army and then couldn't go

1625
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,319
to the most So I went to the rabbi and

1626
01:17:01,399 --> 01:17:04,600
he converted me to atheists, believe it or not, just

1627
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:09,000
because he said that maybe Islam copyed from Judaism.

1628
01:17:09,079 --> 01:17:11,039
Speaker 5: So that me and.

1629
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,399
Speaker 8: Long short, a long story short, I became Muslim, became

1630
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,640
my atheist. But my issue is that at when I

1631
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,840
was fourteen years old and one of my best friends

1632
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,439
became blind. So there is a Hadas from Mohammed saying

1633
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:29,680
that anyone that is blind, it becomes blind and suffers

1634
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:34,000
through it through his life. He's Garante paradised. So I

1635
01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:37,479
had a friend who was asist but blind that I

1636
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:42,359
turned him Muslim by this, so he got he wanted

1637
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:46,239
to commit suicide. So giving him this give him hope

1638
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:51,239
at fourteen nothing more I could give. So so now

1639
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:54,199
when I tell him that I'm an atheist and I

1640
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:56,840
give him proof and stuff, what I did. I did

1641
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,000
all my homework. He seems that I'm trying to steal

1642
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,199
paradise from him, so it's hard to get communicated. Just trying,

1643
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:06,119
even trying to cut me off.

1644
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 10: Because of this, So it's hard to I.

1645
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 8: Don't want to see anything from me.

1646
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:12,319
Speaker 10: Might just reach out.

1647
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally totally understand. And first off, casey, I

1648
01:18:15,159 --> 01:18:16,399
shant to say this real quick.

1649
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,520
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, you are on mute by the way.

1650
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,199
Speaker 1: Am I are you sure? I don't think so? Can

1651
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:21,560
you hear me?

1652
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,279
Speaker 2: You're still on mute? I don't think so.

1653
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Can you hear?

1654
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? We have no idea what's going on? That's hard,

1655
01:18:26,239 --> 01:18:31,199
but anyway, just hear So. Yeah, I would say, do

1656
01:18:31,319 --> 01:18:36,039
you think that if you were to to de convert

1657
01:18:36,119 --> 01:18:39,399
him back to atheism that he would be suicidal?

1658
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:43,520
Speaker 8: Again, I'm not I'm not even trying to to make

1659
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,520
him amazius. I'm just giving him my.

1660
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 10: Motif, like why I became atheist.

1661
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 8: But it looks like because Islam. I don't know if

1662
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:55,720
you guys have much knowledge, give you this that you

1663
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,640
cannot doubt, Like if you doubt, then you you're a

1664
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,800
kaf here. So he doesn't even want to entertain that thought.

1665
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, so let me let me just say this.

1666
01:19:05,359 --> 01:19:08,800
First off, Casey, So super easy, super easy, hang on,

1667
01:19:09,239 --> 01:19:14,399
hang on, Jim, you will, Jim, it's on your end.

1668
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,399
Just pause for five seconds. It's okay, just pause for

1669
01:19:16,399 --> 01:19:19,359
five seconds. So, Casey, first off, I just want to

1670
01:19:19,399 --> 01:19:22,600
say this, I appreciate that in your friend's time of

1671
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,159
need that you were there for them. Okay, you should

1672
01:19:25,239 --> 01:19:28,359
not in any way, shape or form feel bad about that, right,

1673
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:32,640
That is a very good thing. Okay. Second off from that,

1674
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:37,720
I will then just say there are also a lot

1675
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,359
of secular options and a lot of non religious things

1676
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:44,680
for any future times if you happen to find yourself

1677
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,760
in that situation, there are a lot of non religious

1678
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,960
things that you can do that could help that individual,

1679
01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:53,600
right so that you don't have to give them that religion. Okay,

1680
01:19:54,199 --> 01:19:57,000
just for for future sake. Now, real quick, man, I

1681
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,520
know this ain't going to fill that hole or anything,

1682
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,439
but let me tell you this, brother, You're not at fault.

1683
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:04,399
Like you don't need to be. You don't need to

1684
01:20:04,399 --> 01:20:07,039
be beating yourself up or the fact that that you're

1685
01:20:07,199 --> 01:20:09,359
you turned your buddy a believer when you were a

1686
01:20:09,399 --> 01:20:11,920
believer dude, We've all done that, every single one of

1687
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,640
us that was a believer. We all turned shit to do.

1688
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:17,319
You know how many people seth Andrew's fucking convinced when

1689
01:20:17,359 --> 01:20:19,800
he was on Christian radio for a decade and a half.

1690
01:20:20,199 --> 01:20:24,680
A lot, you know, So that happens, don't worry about

1691
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:26,920
all that. Give yourself a little bit of grace on

1692
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,279
all that. Okay, at the very least, give yourself a

1693
01:20:30,319 --> 01:20:32,000
little bit of grace on all that. You were there

1694
01:20:32,039 --> 01:20:34,079
for a friend in a meaningful time, and that is

1695
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:34,880
the most important.

1696
01:20:35,359 --> 01:20:37,720
Speaker 8: So what hurts me the most is because I lost

1697
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,279
the friends with He was a diagnosed cancer and he

1698
01:20:41,359 --> 01:20:44,000
cut me off when he knew that I was atheist,

1699
01:20:44,239 --> 01:20:46,720
and it was hard to watch him die and I

1700
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:50,920
couldn't talk or meet him for him the last few months.

1701
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:54,439
So this is kind of like a deja vu but

1702
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:58,279
different situation, but kind of similar. So losing a friend

1703
01:20:58,359 --> 01:21:00,680
more like, I'm not trying to convert. I just feel

1704
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,079
like I lost him, you know, like I lost my

1705
01:21:03,119 --> 01:21:03,680
other friend.

1706
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I completely understand that. Yeah, yeah, I totally

1707
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,720
understand that. And what I would say when it comes

1708
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:13,399
to trying to continue these conversations, right, one of the

1709
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:16,880
biggest things. A close buddy of mine, you know, he

1710
01:21:17,039 --> 01:21:20,199
said this when he first came out as non religious.

1711
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,399
He was hot, he was hot and heavy, and he

1712
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:26,319
was going after fucking anybody man, and he wasn't pulling punches,

1713
01:21:26,359 --> 01:21:27,359
I mean, he was swinging.

1714
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:27,760
Speaker 3: Man.

1715
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:33,239
Speaker 1: That resulted, obviously in some very difficult and tense conversations

1716
01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:36,039
with some people that he really really cares about, and

1717
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,119
he had to at one point take a big step

1718
01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:41,920
back and go, hang on, wait a second, what is

1719
01:21:42,079 --> 01:21:44,880
the most important thing to me in this moment? Is

1720
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,199
the most important thing to me in this moment being

1721
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:52,880
fucking right and dominating this stupid weak minded like is

1722
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:54,960
that what's the most important thing to me? Or is

1723
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,640
the most important thing to me my friend in front

1724
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:02,760
of me right, my coworker, my neighbor, my mother, my partner.

1725
01:22:03,039 --> 01:22:05,520
Is that what's more important to me? And if it

1726
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,039
is the first one, well, then, honestly, Casey, I don't

1727
01:22:08,039 --> 01:22:09,680
think you really need any help in that. I think

1728
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:11,560
you know exactly what to do. Like, if you want

1729
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:14,920
to dominate, motherfucker, go out there, read the books, listen

1730
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:19,239
to the philosophy, and listen to the experts, and you know, hell, yeah,

1731
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:20,960
you can go out there and be an asshole all

1732
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,800
the time. Of course, you know, if what you care

1733
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,159
about is the connection that you're having with with that person,

1734
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,960
that's harder, so right right.

1735
01:22:30,239 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, the connection one. But also like the way I

1736
01:22:35,039 --> 01:22:37,560
see it now is him being blind and bing in

1737
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,840
his head five times a day and spending most of

1738
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:43,880
his time in most for something that like, I know,

1739
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,439
he's blind, but he can enjoy life in different ways,

1740
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:49,399
absolutely being blind and get your stuck in the most

1741
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,079
So that's it hurts me and cutting me off, you.

1742
01:22:52,079 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 2: Know, like h And that's that's the hard part. And anyway,

1743
01:22:56,039 --> 01:22:58,159
you know, that's probably the part of the relationship you

1744
01:22:58,199 --> 01:23:01,600
need to work on repairing. Because again, if the most

1745
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:06,600
important thing about you is your relationship with your friend

1746
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,720
than your atheism, to ask to take a back seat,

1747
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,279
and no, religious people don't do that, and we as

1748
01:23:12,319 --> 01:23:14,680
atheists have to do that probably more often if we

1749
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,399
want to keep our relationships. But this is the problem

1750
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,439
with dealing with religious folks, is you you know, and

1751
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:26,399
yeah it's probably worse and you know with Muslims than

1752
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,640
it is most Christians. A lot a lot of Christians

1753
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,000
tend to be more liberal along those lines, but there

1754
01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:35,319
are those that are not, and so that becomes a question.

1755
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:38,720
I mean, we know fairly famous atheists who have had

1756
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,079
to cut their parents off and have no contact with

1757
01:23:41,119 --> 01:23:45,199
their parents because they can't go there, and that's unfortunate

1758
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:47,840
for their parents. We know other atheists whose parents have

1759
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:51,479
cut them off and cut their own child off. So

1760
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,399
you know, that's kind of where you're at. I think

1761
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,800
is you need to go figure out how to repair

1762
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,359
the relationship and just let him do what he going

1763
01:24:00,399 --> 01:24:05,520
to do and you know, enjoy being his front and

1764
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:06,880
it sucks.

1765
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 10: It sucks. I appreciate it. Yes, just as I said,

1766
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:12,039
that sounds.

1767
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,319
Speaker 8: The feeling guilty for something that I thought was right

1768
01:24:14,359 --> 01:24:17,159
at the time, but now that I see from this

1769
01:24:17,359 --> 01:24:21,880
as being blind and get this stuck wasting in my opinion,

1770
01:24:22,159 --> 01:24:23,680
his life, his moments.

1771
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 2: But sure, yeah, and it's his wife. Ultimately, your opinion

1772
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:28,359
of what he's doing with it doesn't matter.

1773
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, he gets to he gets to make his decisions,

1774
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,880
and honestly, just like just like you know, look, Casey,

1775
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:36,880
there may be a time in the future from now,

1776
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:38,479
we don't know. There may be a time in the

1777
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,720
future you you convert, you know, you convert back to Islam,

1778
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,479
you you join Hinduism, you whatever, Man, I mean, it's

1779
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:48,079
possible that you'll regret some of the actions that that

1780
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:50,760
you've done. Now in terms of leading people away from

1781
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,640
the faith, all you can do is the best you

1782
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,119
can with the knowledge that you have. And just like

1783
01:24:56,159 --> 01:24:59,079
Maya Angelou says, when you know better, you do better,

1784
01:24:59,239 --> 01:25:02,560
you know, And until then, all we can do is

1785
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,359
try to do the best that we fricking can right now.

1786
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,640
And I think it sounds to me like I think

1787
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,760
you're on that right, that right track. I'll offer this

1788
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,439
as as a potential for for maybe something else to

1789
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:18,399
dig into the future, if you'd like. There's this really

1790
01:25:18,399 --> 01:25:21,600
cool book by this guy named David McCraney. It's called

1791
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:25,479
How Minds Change, and it's about the way that we

1792
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,520
engage with people and and what methods are effective and

1793
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,600
what methods aren't. So maybe that's something you guys could

1794
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,960
read together, you know. So Yeah, anyway, thank you so much,

1795
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,640
Casey for for calling in to us. We uh, we

1796
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:41,920
greatly appreciate you. And I'm just gonna drop you like

1797
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,079
a hot rock. I'm so sorry if I cut you off. Yeah, YouTube, man,

1798
01:25:45,119 --> 01:25:47,199
thank you so much. I always end up cutting people

1799
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:49,720
off at the end. I never mean to do it purposefully, folks,

1800
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:54,119
It's totally accidental. But we we are, we are near

1801
01:25:54,199 --> 01:25:56,600
the end. And so before we wrap up, you know,

1802
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:58,479
Jim and I gotta we gotta have a little What

1803
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,039
do you think was it all? What was your favorite

1804
01:26:01,079 --> 01:26:01,760
part we had?

1805
01:26:02,399 --> 01:26:06,319
Speaker 2: Oh? We had some good conversations. Our conversation with a

1806
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:09,039
pronoun dude.

1807
01:26:09,319 --> 01:26:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not sure what happened there. Honestly,

1808
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:18,880
I feel like something was said by by at least somebody,

1809
01:26:19,119 --> 01:26:21,560
But what exactly that was, I don't know. But the

1810
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:23,960
good news is, Jim, is that you and I are

1811
01:26:24,039 --> 01:26:27,199
not here alone. In fact, every week there is a

1812
01:26:27,319 --> 01:26:30,399
wonderful volunteer that will hang out and make sure just

1813
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,920
in case the ship hits the fan that they can

1814
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:37,039
hop on. And today's wonderful backup host is none other

1815
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:42,159
than the man himself, mister Kelly Laughlin. And Kelly, thank

1816
01:26:42,199 --> 01:26:47,000
you so much that you are. You are our resident

1817
01:26:48,159 --> 01:26:52,119
Patrick interpreters today. Can you help us out? What were you?

1818
01:26:52,199 --> 01:26:54,479
I know you take extensive notes.

1819
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:59,399
Speaker 13: But I you know what my My big problem with

1820
01:26:59,399 --> 01:27:02,000
with him was that it seemed like every time you

1821
01:27:02,039 --> 01:27:05,239
guys came up with an answer to his problems, he

1822
01:27:05,359 --> 01:27:08,079
kept you just they either ignored you or would just

1823
01:27:08,199 --> 01:27:09,000
change the topic.

1824
01:27:09,199 --> 01:27:09,359
Speaker 11: Right.

1825
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, it was like just getting nowhere with him. I

1826
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,439
felt like you were just banging your heads against the walls.

1827
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:18,560
So I do want to say something to Casey though,

1828
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,720
if I could take out a minute, Casey, don't dwell

1829
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,119
on the past. It's not about what whether or not

1830
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:27,640
what you did was right or wrong. What it's really

1831
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:30,439
about is if you can do better every single day,

1832
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,079
and that's what really counts. And I think by the

1833
01:27:33,119 --> 01:27:35,640
way you were talking when you called here, I think

1834
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,000
you're already on that path. So you're doing the right thing.

1835
01:27:38,119 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: Keep it up, greed, agreed, And I think that is

1836
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:45,119
a phenomenal sentiment for us to head out on. Folks.

1837
01:27:45,399 --> 01:27:48,600
It is it is Sunday. It is getting into the

1838
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:51,520
evening my time. So if it's that time for you,

1839
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:53,760
go relax, go have fun. If you're ready to start

1840
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,520
your day, go do that. But whatever you're doing, remember

1841
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,600
that Jesus did die on the cross for your sins,

1842
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:00,399
so make sure you do a few of them for us.

1843
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,600
But thank you so much, Kelly for hanging out in

1844
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,520
the back with us. You're always great, Jim. It is

1845
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:08,439
always so much freaking fun to be hanging out and

1846
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,159
chatting with you. We're all going to be at the

1847
01:28:10,319 --> 01:28:16,079
back cruise here, right is that is yes? That's okay, man,

1848
01:28:16,199 --> 01:28:16,680
that's okay.

1849
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:17,359
Speaker 2: You were there.

1850
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:18,720
Speaker 1: You weren't there long ago.

1851
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,159
Speaker 2: We saw years ago at least.

1852
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:23,560
Speaker 14: Well, I am the party king, So if you want

1853
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,760
to come and party with the King beyond the back cruise,

1854
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:27,760
that's right, folks.

1855
01:28:28,119 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: It's very very very easy tiny dot CC slash a

1856
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,920
C a bat Cruise. There are still tickets available. You

1857
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,520
don't have much time left, but you got to get

1858
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:38,840
the fuck out of here because we're leaving next Sunday

1859
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:40,840
at four thirty pm. We'll be right here until then.

1860
01:28:41,079 --> 01:28:41,319
Speaker 2: Do you.

1861
01:28:46,199 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 5: Stop?

1862
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 1: Stop? I think we got through like at least six

1863
01:28:54,039 --> 01:29:00,760
minutes before we talked about bat Pope, right, okay, five

1864
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:06,159
fifty three, that's not seven seconds. That's not bad okay,

1865
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,880
card six minutes. Okay, next time, don't bring on bad

1866
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,800
food until six minutes into the broadcast.

1867
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:14,199
Speaker 2: You got it.

1868
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 1: Watch Talk Ethan live Sundays at one pm Central. Visit

1869
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,880
tiny dot c c slash y T T H and

1870
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,399
call into the show at five one two nine nine

1871
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one nine two four two, or connect to the show

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online at tiny dot c c slash call THH