WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.080 Hey, Hey, it's that yogurt parfe that honestly could use 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.960 a little Moorkanola Alley word. I'm here with an episode 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.080 that took not only two years to make COVID be damned, 4 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:13.160 but has also been in the works since the Permian 5 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.800 period two hundred and seventy million years ago. Nerds, when 6 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:20.399 it comes to cycads, she is it, she is the person. 7 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:22.320 And wait, hold up, what is a pycad? 8 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:23.039 Good question? 9 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:25.960 So with a name like cycad, it could be anything. 10 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:28.839 It could be a person on top and a shark 11 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:31.239 on the bottom. I feel like a cycad could be 12 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.880 a sixteen dollars cocktail at a speakeasy full of jerks. 13 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.520 A syicad could be a type of sore, maybe on 14 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.000 your mouth if you're allergic to citrus, if I had 15 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.960 to guess. But no backing up a cycad it comes 16 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.600 from the Greek, a typo for the word palm, despite 17 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.039 a psycad, which is a plant, not being a palm 18 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.119 tree at all. So sycads have been on the scene 19 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:55.600 two hundred million years before palm trees. Palm trees stumble 20 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:57.439 in like, hey, what's up? What I miss? And Sycads 21 00:00:57.479 --> 00:00:59.479 are like what did you miss, oh, just the rise 22 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:03.840 of the dynast and like gymnosperms aka plants that just 23 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.599 bust out naked seeds without even having these new flowers 24 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:10.200 or whatever. You have palms. So cycads ancient plants so 25 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:14.239 much older than palm trees, and they have like a stout, 26 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:16.640 hairy trunk. It kind of looks like if your cat 27 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.319 used pineapple as a scratching post. And they have a 28 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.040 bunch of stiff pinnate leaves. They have a spine down 29 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.319 the center. And just like in ancient times, there are 30 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:31.120 rigid females and males. They are also critically endangered. They're 31 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:34.400 surrounded by so much drama. So much drama, you're not 32 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:36.760 going to know what to do with yourself. Plants, yes, 33 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.920 hang tight. So this sycad sleuth got a PhD at 34 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.760 the University of Melbourne and continued her post doc researched 35 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.799 at Duke and UC Berkeley in Harvard. She went back 36 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.560 to Australia to be a research scientist at the Royal 37 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:52.920 Botanic Garden in Sydney, and then in twenty seventeen made 38 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.560 the journey back up to the Northern Hemisphere to join 39 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:58.480 the California Academy of Arts and Science in San Francisco 40 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:01.680 as an associate curator and the McAllister Chair of Botany. 41 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.079 And it was there that I met her when I 42 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.480 moderated a woman in Science panel and I remember it well, 43 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:11.919 manyeologites in attendance, and this ologist was someone I just 44 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:16.800 adored immediately, and I met her March of twenty twenty, 45 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:21.439 March fifth oh. No one was in masks, very few 46 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.120 people had hand sanitizer, and hundreds of us packed into 47 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:29.599 a room fearlessly. Instead of handshakes, we knocked sneakers into greeting, 48 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.719 being like, this is going to save us. We're so young, 49 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.919 we're so naive. And since then I'd wanted to interview 50 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:37.400 her for years, just waiting for this pandemic to be over. 51 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.879 But you know what, too much waiting. Let's do it. 52 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.199 So Natalie spoke to me this week from Australia where 53 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.680 she's with family. We hopped onto chat which are going 54 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:47.240 to hear very soon. But first I quick thank you 55 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:49.400 to all patrons who support the show. At patreon dot 56 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:51.919 com slash Ologies, you can join up for a dollar 57 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.520 a month or more and submit questions. Thank you to 58 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:57.520 everyone who talks to their friends and maybe they're foes 59 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.879 about ologies. Thanks to everyone who make sure they're so 60 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.639 prescribed that really keeps us up in the charts. Also 61 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.800 reviews to I read each and every one of them, 62 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.319 and to prove it, I will pick a fresh one. 63 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:12.719 Thank you Lubug nineteen, who wrote for lovers and haters 64 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.800 of science alike. I hated science in high school like 65 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.360 so much. They write ologies make science of all types 66 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.159 absolutely fascinating and I cannot get enough of it. So 67 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.479 thank you lubug nineteen. Everyone else who wrote a review, 68 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:27.240 I read it and I love you. Thank you. Okay 69 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.599 you're ready. Nope, you're not. That was a true question. Okay, 70 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:36.479 here we go. Plant capers, investment strategies, Jurassic flimflam, nudity, 71 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:41.520 sort of the Michael Phelps of plant sperm, neighborhood psychat, safaris, 72 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:49.599 cultivating pet plants, thumbs that are not green, heists, thrillers, poachers, rangers, gardens, 73 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:51.960 and one of the best fixes for procrastination I have 74 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:59.000 ever heard with botanist, research scientists, scholar enthusiast of charismatic gymnosperms, 75 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:04.400 and one of the world's most respected, charming, funny, and 76 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:29.720 endearing scientists, the universally beloved psychiologist doctor Natalie Nagalingham. Oh, 77 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.879 first off, I should ask, can you say your first 78 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:33.759 and last name in the pronouns you use? 79 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.439 My name is Natalie Nagalingham, and my pronouns. 80 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:41.319 Actually I hate to ask this because everyone asks, but 81 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:42.199 what time is it there? 82 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.680 It is thirty four pm? 83 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.399 Am am? 84 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.040 Oh my gosh. Okay, did we get you up early? 85 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:52.720 Yes? You did. I had like two alarms set to 86 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.800 make sure I wouldn't sleepy. 87 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.240 Yeah, I'm sorry. No having our first coffee of the day. 88 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:05.399 Probably, Yeah, I had breakfast and yeah. 89 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:06.480 Right, Well, I'm so glad that we're finally doing this 90 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.319 because I had such a good time talking to you 91 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:13.319 in San Francisco. That was just an amazing, amazing time, 92 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.920 And I have been waiting. That was just a few 93 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.319 days before COVID, wasn't it. 94 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:19.800 Yeah, it was pretty COVID. I remember you tapping us 95 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:24.040 with your shoes just to greet us. Yeah, we didn't 96 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:24.560 know anything. 97 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.000 I feel like that was like one of the last 98 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:28.439 fun times in. 99 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:29.800 Public I had was with you. 100 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:31.000 That's true. 101 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.000 Yep, I didn't know what a psychad was until I 102 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:38.279 met you. It's right, yeah, and it's so ed and 103 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:40.519 for lack of a better term, we can call you 104 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:42.759 a psychologist. Yeah. 105 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:43.720 Is that a real word? 106 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.560 Yeah, it is, actually it is. Yes. 107 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.079 Oh that makes me so happy, because I do feel 108 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:54.000 like we we nudge toward words that are very new sometimes. 109 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.480 So, yeah, this is real. 110 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:58.480 But these plants are so old. 111 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.680 Yeah, they're pretty ancient. And you know, if you look at, 112 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.639 you know, all those dinosaur pictures, you're going to see 113 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:06.040 something that looks like a psycad. 114 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.040 Were cycads around during the time of the dinosaurs or 115 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:10.480 were their ancestors around. 116 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.319 Well, that's kind of tricky because so the ones that 117 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.160 we see today are kind of like a whole new 118 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.920 crop of species, but they're great great grandparents. They were 119 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.319 around during the time of the dinosaurs, and they also 120 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.639 had kind of like distant relatives, cousins, kind of thing 121 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.399 that looked like them that were around during the time 122 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:29.240 of the dinosaurs. 123 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.160 To me, I think of a pineapple wearing a palm 124 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.079 tree as a hat, and I feel like that is 125 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.319 perhaps not the best description, But can you explain what 126 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.519 does this psycad in your experience look like that. 127 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.759 Is a great it's a really good description. Yeah, I 128 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.000 never thought of that. I love it. Are used a 129 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.519 really boring description. I think it's from a botanical description 130 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:53.920 saying it. You know, it looks like a palm. It's 131 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.800 got a stout trunk and it's got a crown of 132 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:01.519 leaves at the top. They had cones, and those cones 133 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.519 look like pine cones, but yours is much more interesting. 134 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:12.079 So yes, very deep green, stiff leaves, a hairy, stumpy trunk. 135 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.839 You've seen a million of them planted in dentist's office 136 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.279 and maybe malls in business park landscaping, and thought, wow, 137 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.680 what a very small palm. So people either take them 138 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:27.959 for granted or are obsessed with them for like millions 139 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.560 of years. Now, how long does it take for them 140 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:34.480 to reproduce it? Why are they so endangered? 141 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:38.079 They grow really really slowly. So if you think of 142 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.560 the seed, the seed takes a year for the root 143 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.160 to germinate, and then it's a few months after that 144 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.879 then you get the first leaf. Oh wow, so that 145 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:53.959 in itself is really slow, and then each like psychad plant, 146 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.639 it just grows about I don't know, one centimeter. I'm 147 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.600 in cinemed here like half an inch or something. It 148 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:04.959 grows really really slowly each year. And so if you 149 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.319 see something that's probably up to your knee, that's about 150 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:09.040 ten years old. 151 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:14.199 Oh so they're little guys kind of right, yeah, oh yeah. 152 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.120 If you go into the field, you can find really 153 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:19.680 big guys like I've you know, I've been to field 154 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.639 sites where there's three met at all, and I've had to, 155 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:25.160 you know, get my husband to like climb on a 156 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.079 rock and reach on the stiffy toes to get a 157 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.439 sample for me because there's no way that I can 158 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:30.800 reach it. 159 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.399 What does your field work look like? Do you have 160 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.960 to take a time machine at all to the past? 161 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:41.039 Only my time machine is our car. And what I 162 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:44.720 do is we have all these collections, and this is 163 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.639 common for you know, all of biology, that we store 164 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.960 collections of plants and animals that we found in the wild. 165 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.080 And what I do is I look at those collections 166 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.320 and find out we have psychades that being collected before. 167 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.559 And I go back to those collections and note down 168 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.480 where they're from, and I go back to those locations 169 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.519 and try to find them. Sometimes I can go back 170 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.919 and there are no psycheads there. Sometimes I can go 171 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.080 back and there are psychads there. It is kind of 172 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:13.159 hit or miss. 173 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.720 So part of Natalie's work involves tramping through field sites 174 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:21.200 looking for new species or discerning the presence of specimens 175 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.879 that are thought to be extinct in the wild, or 176 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.480 she returns to field sites other botanists have documented to 177 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:30.320 drop by, like a little you anyway home, just checking in. 178 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:35.440 So psychologists pass this baton generationally, kind of like science 179 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:40.240 links in this unbroken chain. How long have you been 180 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:41.399 studying psychads? 181 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.039 Well, so I started off my career as a paleobotanist, 182 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.399 and so you break that word down, paleo meaning ancient 183 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.039 and old, and botanist meaning someone who's a botanist who 184 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:59.159 studies botany plants. So I studied ancient plants and that 185 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.480 really fascinated me, being able to go back in time 186 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:04.879 and psycads are these really really ancient plants? And so 187 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:09.360 I started studying psycads and ferns and conifers theft like 188 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:12.240 pine trees. Then a little bit later into my career 189 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:15.840 we got the ability to use DNA to answer these 190 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:19.799 ancient questions, not just through fossils, and so I transitioned 191 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.879 into that. And so now I use DNA to try 192 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:26.960 and uncover all of those questions that I was trying 193 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.679 to answer just using fossils alone. 194 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.960 Oh wow, so now you have this completely like backstage 195 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:36.799 molecular way of looking at things, where as before did 196 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:40.200 you just have to look really closely at whatever their 197 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:42.360 leaves and their stems and their roots look like to 198 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.399 try to identify them? 199 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:45.879 Yeah? Yeah, it was met like you sort of had 200 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:49.000 to group them based on those characters that you said, 201 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:52.200 and then were they similar to, say, ones in you know, 202 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.720 are the ones in Antarctica? Were they similar to ones 203 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.200 in Australia. So it's sort of just using features like 204 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:00.559 that that we figured out what was happening, and that 205 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:04.000 if there was changes, or if there were changes over time, 206 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:07.759 then you could say this has evolved from that or 207 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.799 there has been some kind of evolution happening. 208 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:14.279 Hold on, backup, did you say Anarctica? Are there psycads 209 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:15.000 on Anarcta? 210 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:15.279 Is that? 211 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.120 Are you? Is that a joke? 212 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:23.639 No? In the Cretaceous there were lush forests in the Antarctic, 213 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:29.200 and so I studied some I studied fossil ferns there. 214 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.919 It's like the last place you would believe there are ferns. 215 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.240 What happened was that the world was much much warmer. 216 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:38.039 It was called a greenhouse Earth. So the world was warmer, 217 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.840 and there were dinosaurs down there. There were lush forests. 218 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.759 Those forests were actually really similar to the Australian forests 219 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.720 and to the South American forests, and so you find 220 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.120 things like these huge conifer trees. You find ferns, you 221 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:57.200 find cycads, you find little bitty moss like relatives, you 222 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:57.600 find them. 223 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.679 All that's blowing my And that underneath tons and tons 224 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.159 of glaciers and snow are fossils of ferns and masses 225 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:06.919 and cycads. 226 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:07.360 Yeah. 227 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:09.200 And dinosaurs, yes, yeah. 228 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.200 And the cool thing about the dinosaurs from that region, 229 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.519 so you know, Australia and Tarctica, South America, is that 230 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:20.720 they had these really big eye sockets and because half 231 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.919 of the year in Antarctica it was dark, and so 232 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.120 they had these huge ties to allow them to see 233 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:29.320 during that dark period. 234 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:30.360 Oh my god. 235 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:34.559 Okay, did dinosaurs on Antarctica or did dinosaurs in general? 236 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:37.320 Did they eat cycads? Were they edible? Yeah? 237 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.360 Yes, So there's over the last few years, there's increasingly 238 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:45.399 more evidence that dinosaurs ate cycads. So come, I'm always 239 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:47.600 on the lookout for papers that show evidence for this. 240 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.399 Maybe like fifteen years ago there was kind of like, ah, 241 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.799 these are some leaves it looks like they could be 242 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:56.519 psychads in a dinosaur's gut, that we're not one hundred 243 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:00.759 percent sure. And then more recently we found seeds in 244 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:05.320 dinosaur guts are definitively psycads, and some leaves as well 245 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.080 that are from dinosaurs guts. 246 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:08.440 Oh my god. 247 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.399 That the fact that someone could look at a fossil 248 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.960 and be able to see certain seeds that a dinosaur 249 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.840 as it's you know, final meal is veanillas, yeah, or 250 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.440 rather psychads. But what do their seeds look like? How 251 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:25.200 do you even identify a pycad seed? 252 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:28.559 So they just kind of around blob. Really, they're not 253 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:32.679 very exciting, and they do different they differ by us 254 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.120 species and genus and stuff like that, but they're just 255 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.759 so like they're kind of big, maybe like the palm 256 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.000 of your hand. Oh really, yeah, they're pretty pretty big. 257 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.440 And then some of them are probably you know, it's 258 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.759 much much smaller, maybe the size of your thumb. It 259 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.360 just depends on the spaces and you know, and there's 260 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:52.279 always variability. 261 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:57.799 So reminder, cycads are gymnosperms or naked seeds, which is 262 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:02.240 extremely sensual of them and their nude seeds they're just 263 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:07.039 waiting around for pollen, where angiosperms angion means container, so 264 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.720 I contained seeds have much more complicated reproduction. It involves 265 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.080 flowers and some other romantic business like encasing their seeds, 266 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:20.559 perhaps in a delicious, juicy ovary aka of fruit. But cycads. 267 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.559 Cycads are like, no, I'm a gymnastperm, I'm here, I'm naked, 268 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.360 let's do this. And in female plants they can just 269 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.840 be hanging out in a feathery looking leaf nest in 270 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.320 the middle of their fronds. There's plenty of variability in 271 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.360 the seeds, but from the gaze of my light googling, 272 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.279 they kind of look like dried pinto beans or fava beans. 273 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.360 How did they get dispersed if they were so dang big? 274 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.399 That's another question that like I think about a lot 275 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:54.279 and people who have done studies. So one of my 276 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.600 favorite studies by some people up in Queensland is they 277 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.679 got a cone and they put little bits of metal 278 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:02.679 on them, like a nut or a bolt or a 279 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.240 nail and then they just sort of, you know, let 280 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.759 it become ripen. And then they went around the bush 281 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.720 with a metal detector and they tried to figure out 282 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:19.120 how far away did these seeds go. So they found 283 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:21.799 that it's like they didn't go very far. It was 284 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.159 like little mammals Australian you know, marsupi or they had 285 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.519 sort of like picked apart the cone and just sort 286 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.720 of taken them, you know, a couple of meters away, 287 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.120 but not very far. There's also thought that e news 288 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.559 eat them. In Western Australia, other birds might eat them 289 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:44.559 like cassawerries. In the north of Australia, I'm not so sure. 290 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.120 And in South Africa, I don't think there is evidence 291 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.039 of you know, the big megaphauna, you know, the Big 292 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.480 five eating the cycad seeds. 293 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.960 Okay, quick aside, she dropped the Big five like a 294 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.519 Los Angeles person casually talks about freeway interchange. But I 295 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.080 look this up for US, and those big five animals 296 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:10.039 are kangaroos, wombats, koalas, crocodiles, and EMUs. Well you know, okay, 297 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:20.399 another website said kangaroos, wombats koalas crocodiles and platypuses. Shit okay, 298 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:28.559 another person okay. Another person lists kangaroos, wombats, koalas, platypusses, echidnas. 299 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.799 I don't know Australia. I don't know what your big 300 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.240 five is for a cane toad like me, I reckon 301 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.639 it's a bit of a dog's breakfast. Good on me, duh. 302 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:40.679 I looked up slang. 303 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:46.200 So basically, once you've got a psychad population, if you 304 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.840 take it away, nothing's going to bring it back. 305 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.879 Oh wow, can you tell me a little bit about 306 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.879 their range? Where do we find psychads now? 307 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.840 So I like to say that they are found in 308 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.400 regions that I like, which is warm and tropical, and 309 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.519 so it's like it's great for field works at ski 310 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.920 are we. But it's kind of like the warm tropical 311 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.480 bands like the top of Australia in the Pacific, in 312 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:20.759 the Caribbean, in Asia, so Thailand, up into India, some 313 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.799 in China, and then you go across to Africa and 314 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:27.960 Southern Africa and Madagascar as well. So they're sort of 315 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.720 in a band, sort of in the middle of the globe. 316 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.079 So if cycads were looking for an apartment, their search 317 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:40.200 terms would be like warm vibes, average to above average humidity, 318 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:46.000 equatorial adjacent maybe places like Central America or the northern 319 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.400 parts of South America, Eastern Africa very popular region, and 320 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:54.960 the coasts of Southeast Asia. But what about Natalie herself? 321 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:58.920 Was it always locations, locations, locations? Did you grow up 322 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.559 wanting to travel a lot? Did you grow up really 323 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:07.440 curious about native habitats? How did you end up getting 324 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.160 to travel around and learn so much about these very endangered, 325 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:13.319 beautiful plants. 326 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:15.480 I had no idea that I could have a job 327 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:20.079 like this. I'm a first generation. My parents are from Mauritius, 328 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.920 which is a tiny little island next to Madagascar. Not 329 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.680 many people have even heard of it. It's actually people 330 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.160 but probably know it because of the Dodo and that's 331 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.759 where the dodo was from, and the dodo became extinct there. Wow. 332 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.640 But otherwise people don't know about them. And so my 333 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:41.160 parents moved from Mauritius to Australia and we were encouraged 334 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.200 to go to school. And you know, we gave me 335 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.079 here to give you a bit of life. And so 336 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.960 I just went to school, I went to university. I 337 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.799 just sort of kept following what really interested me, and 338 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.759 that was science. And then I didn't realize that I 339 00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:00.480 could be a doctor and pursue these plants all over 340 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:00.920 the world. 341 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.680 What was it like when you got your doctorate? 342 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.640 It was just released because it was a long time. 343 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:13.640 I think once you do it, it's just for me. 344 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.079 I think for many people, I just felt sick of it. 345 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:17.559 It was like, I just want to get rid of 346 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.000 these I wanted to do something else because it just 347 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.160 consumes your life. Yeah, and so I was just happy 348 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.759 to get it done. And I think what was the 349 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.440 nicest part was my family was so happy and so, 350 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.319 you know, I have photos of my graduation day and 351 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.880 they were everyone was so pleased and we're all smiling. 352 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:37.359 So that was really nice. 353 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.440 So doctor Naglingham has published papers with titles like Conservation 354 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.960 Genetics of Wild Populations and Botanic Garden, Collections of Australian 355 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.720 psychads and Phylogeny of the gymnastperm species. Psychis l as 356 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.119 inferred from plastid and nuclear loci based on large scale sampling, 357 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.559 evolutionary relationships and taxonomical implications. But what plant knowledge is 358 00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:59.400 she just really digging into? 359 00:19:59.519 --> 00:19:59.799 Now? 360 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:05.720 Is there anything that you are really excited about researching 361 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:06.599 right now. 362 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:12.480 Yeah, So this project is basically like a zoo breeding program. 363 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:15.720 Now we have all these zoos with you know, like 364 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.279 lizards or frogs, and we have a population and we 365 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.880 use their pedigrees to figure out which ones we're going 366 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.720 to breed together to make sure that you know, we're 367 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:28.559 not inbreeding, and we increase their populations for eventually bringing 368 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:30.680 them out in the wild. So we're doing that for 369 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.519 the psychads. So we are doing it for maybebout ten 370 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.519 species that are pretty much extinct in the wild. And 371 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:45.079 we've got samples from private collectors from botanic gardens, and 372 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.319 we figured out that the DNA profile of each of 373 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.119 those each of those samples, and what we're doing is 374 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.119 we're going to determine first are they clones of each other, 375 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:58.400 because that's the thing that psychads do is they can 376 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.680 produce clones. So we don't want we don't want to 377 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.599 have a botannic guide and full of you know, twenty clones. 378 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.640 We then in the long term, once they grow big 379 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.559 enough to breed, we want to breed them and produce 380 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.039 more plants to increase that population and increase the health. 381 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.240 And so we're going to use genetics to help guide 382 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.440 our breeding program, so just like a captive breeding program 383 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.039 in a zoo, and so I've got someone working on 384 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:25.599 that and she's doing an amazing job. 385 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.119 Has there been a moment where you realize something, either 386 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.960 with DNA or with through fossils, that you realize you 387 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.319 might be one of the only people to know that. 388 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:41.119 There's a few instances where three subspecies were sort of 389 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.839 lumped sort of together, and then looking at them with 390 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.279 the DNA, it was like, no, these are only these 391 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.480 are two subspecies, and one of the subspecies is an 392 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.640 entirely new species that's with DNA, And it's not being 393 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.880 done quite a lot in the psychad worlds. Yet most 394 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.319 of the time I just take a little segue. Most 395 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.400 of the time it's psychadologists going into areas that we 396 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.480 haven't explored and finding new species with these really obvious characters. 397 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.759 And the other thing that I found really surprising is 398 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.119 when I was looking at the DNA of today's psychcads, 399 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.720 I expected them all to reveal that they all evolved 400 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.240 alongside the dinosaurs, and I would just sort of like 401 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.880