Speaker 1: What's up barty, people, and welcome to Countdown to Classic,
Speaker 1: where it's not my opinion that counts but yours. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to another episode of Countdown to Classic. It's
Speaker 1: so lovely to have you all here. And guys, it's
Speaker 1: basically a new server review here today on the podcast.
Speaker 1: It's super duper casual. I've just recorded an extended chat
Speaker 1: amongst about twenty of us in voice chat on day
Speaker 1: one of the Bronze Beard server launch. Now, as I've
Speaker 1: said already on the show, a lot of you who
Speaker 1: are still catching up with past episodes of the show
Speaker 1: and you've bingered over the last month or whatever might
Speaker 1: have a bit of whiplash from like whoa, whoa, Josh,
Speaker 1: what is going on? You guys have just hyped up
Speaker 1: this Epoch server for the last month. Now you're talking
Speaker 1: about another private server, Bronzebeard. What's going on? You'll get
Speaker 1: all the info in the call, guys, but look, basically, Epoch.
Speaker 1: I'm recording this on the tenth of October, about a
Speaker 1: week after we recorded the call that you'll hear in
Speaker 1: this episode. And as the guys mentioned, Epoch is going
Speaker 1: through a bit of an odd period at the moment.
Speaker 1: To put it euphemistically, people are dropping population wise as
Speaker 1: they continue to just wait and wait and wait for
Speaker 1: some form of word from the devs about when the
Speaker 1: raid content is coming. And it's just been quiet. You know,
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, we obviously had the announcement of the
Speaker 1: world bosses coming. That's great, it's good to know that
Speaker 1: they're alive. Something came out. Countdown got the world first kill.
Speaker 1: That's wonderful. But it's been cricket since then, and people
Speaker 1: are still clamoring for a roadmap that has not come yet.
Speaker 1: And you know, the server is just getting quiet and quieter,
Speaker 1: and it's not like the zero players playing, but the
Speaker 1: guys are reporting you know, fifteen hundred people online at
Speaker 1: some peak times down to about you know, seven to
Speaker 1: eight hundred at the lows for oceanic players like myself
Speaker 1: in the oceanic peak time. It is very very quiet
Speaker 1: now and very hard to do anything. So what I'm
Speaker 1: getting at is Countdown still has a strong presence on
Speaker 1: the server. So like, if you're in the middle of
Speaker 1: leveling and you're part of Countdown, don't feel discouraged, Like,
Speaker 1: keep trucking on, get to sixty. We will rate at sixty.
Speaker 1: We just need them to bloody announce the content and
Speaker 1: when it's coming. So don't feel like or all of this,
Speaker 1: you know, time spent on Epoch was for nothing. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: I still adore Epoch, I really truly do. I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about this a lot over the last couple of
Speaker 1: days because I've been dabbling with Bronze Beard, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I made a purchase on Bronze Beard, bought the starter
Speaker 1: pack and stuff, and you know, went hard on that
Speaker 1: for the first two days. I just haven't been able
Speaker 1: to play much over the last few days because I'm
Speaker 1: really in the thick of things with university work. I am,
Speaker 1: you know, turning in all my final assessments. I've got
Speaker 1: a lot of shit to do over the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks irl, So I'm not going to play that
Speaker 1: much Wow over the next three weeks. But I would
Speaker 1: be playing more Bronze Beard to see how it goes
Speaker 1: if I could. But also, I really miss Epoch. I
Speaker 1: haven't you know, gotten stuck into Epoch in about a week,
Speaker 1: and I just straight up miss it. I missed my Warlock,
Speaker 1: I missed the way it plays, and I still have
Speaker 1: such fond thoughts towards Epoch, and I can't wait for
Speaker 1: the raid content because I think it's going to be really,
Speaker 1: really fun. And the Countdown Guild is such an amazing
Speaker 1: collection of people. The guys were on yesterday they did
Speaker 1: you know? Krudefs wrote up this beautiful review of a
Speaker 1: dungeon run with Countdown yesterday with Valder and ran Muster.
Speaker 1: That just warmed my heart to no end. You know,
Speaker 1: people are still playing there in terms of Countdown, We've
Speaker 1: got a big presence there, but outside of Countdown it
Speaker 1: can get a bit quiet. So just keep all that
Speaker 1: in mind if you are sort of either thinking about
Speaker 1: whether you should roll on the Epoch server or whether
Speaker 1: you're halfway through your leveling journey, guys, don't don't. I
Speaker 1: still highly recommend if you have the time to experience Epoch,
Speaker 1: it is I prefer I've thought it long and hard
Speaker 1: about it. I really do prefer it to what Bronze
Speaker 1: Beard offers. They're entirely different games, and each to their own.
Speaker 1: You will massively prefer one over the other depending on
Speaker 1: your twenty twenty five preferences. I really had more fun
Speaker 1: in Epoch, Don't get me wrong. I am enjoying Bronze Beard.
Speaker 1: And there'll be much more to speak on about Bronze
Speaker 1: Beard in the future, but you'll hear a lot of
Speaker 1: it in this episode. But whilst I'm having fun on
Speaker 1: Bronze Beard and enjoying myself, I think if I had
Speaker 1: to pick between the two, I would say I had
Speaker 1: more fun on Epoch. The Wonder sixty Journey was quite
Speaker 1: a bit more fun with what they did with the
Speaker 1: changes on Epoch. Now, don't get me wrong, Bronze Beard
Speaker 1: has good stuff too. Everyone keeps saying finding all the
Speaker 1: shinies out in the open world and exploring is brilliant.
Speaker 1: On Bronze Beard, I really enjoy that too. But I
Speaker 1: do think that that what Epoch did with the way
Speaker 1: they sort of, you know, added new stuff seamlessly into
Speaker 1: the world and still had that mildly you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like grindy but not stuck in the mud
Speaker 1: feeling of that Wonder sixty Journey, that really meant a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just it resonated more with me
Speaker 1: when I didn't. I wouldn't have guessed that if you,
Speaker 1: on paper presented these two options to me and said,
Speaker 1: which do you think you'll prefer I probably would have
Speaker 1: picked Bronze Beard, but in practicality, now having done both,
Speaker 1: well not done. I'm not finished on Bronzebeard. I'm only
Speaker 1: level thirty and I've obviously got the sixty on Epoch.
Speaker 1: Being you know, quite unquote halfway through the journey on
Speaker 1: Bronze Beard, I easily say that I'm much more enjoyed
Speaker 1: than the journey on Epoch, and the dungeon content on
Speaker 1: Epoch shits on what I'm getting in Bronze Beard. To
Speaker 1: be blatantly honest with you, so don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: this whole episode is about Bronze Beard, and you know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of positives, and I'm still playing it.
Speaker 1: I am still having fun. I'm just saying, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of proverbial gun to the head, which do you prefer?
Speaker 1: I would still say I prefer Epoch. But guys, we
Speaker 1: are in a bit of a weird state right now.
Speaker 1: It's I was just thinking it's funny that the Countdown
Speaker 1: community has never been more active than it is right now.
Speaker 1: For years, when there's actually no Blizzard product that people
Speaker 1: are really consuming on mass, we're really coalescing around these
Speaker 1: privates servers and trying to find something to spend our
Speaker 1: time with. And it's an odd period because people are
Speaker 1: you know, private server numbers are settling. You know, Epoch's
Speaker 1: doing what it's doing. We're really waiting on information over there.
Speaker 1: Bronze Bard's the new kid on the block and all
Speaker 1: the fresh hype is with it, but that will absolutely
Speaker 1: die down over the next week or two or three
Speaker 1: as it did with Epoch. So it'll just be interesting
Speaker 1: to see where we are in about you know, four
Speaker 1: to five to six weeks time, when all the dust
Speaker 1: truly settles, I think then we'll be able to really
Speaker 1: speak on what the next year looks like for us
Speaker 1: as classic players gagging for a good classic product to consume.
Speaker 1: So with all that in mind, guys, please take in
Speaker 1: this episode. As I said, guys, it's it's super duper casual.
Speaker 1: I take a bit of a step back, So it's
Speaker 1: not like your typical Countdown episode where it's you know,
Speaker 1: journalists Josh firing questions and answers off it at all
Speaker 1: the different people. It really is much more of a
Speaker 1: casual game of chat, like how you Gill might sound
Speaker 1: in voice chat for two hours for a game session
Speaker 1: just talking shit, so please do bear that in mind.
Speaker 1: I mainly do that because I really was trying to
Speaker 1: play Bronze Beard while recording this as well. And typically,
Speaker 1: you know, that's lazy on my part. They don't always
Speaker 1: result in necessarily the best episodes because I'm not doing
Speaker 1: the countdown thing. But it is something a bit different,
Speaker 1: and like I say, just chill out, have this on
Speaker 1: in the background. A lot of the that's not to
Speaker 1: say this episode isn't good. A lot of the guys
Speaker 1: have some phenomenal points on the server, but just don't
Speaker 1: expect me to be in you know, fucking grilling mode.
Speaker 1: But guys, please do enjoy it and I'll talk to
Speaker 1: you at the end. Okay, so it's time for another
Speaker 1: countdown to Classic. And look, I mean a lot has
Speaker 1: happened this week. This has actually been a far crazier
Speaker 1: week in the world of Classic than I thought it
Speaker 1: would be. I'll just give you a little bit of
Speaker 1: a quick opening, guys, and then I'm really going to
Speaker 1: see the microphone over to the crowd, because I was
Speaker 1: just saying to the guys, I was walking the dogs
Speaker 1: the other day and I listened back to last week's
Speaker 1: episode as I usually do as a bit of quality
Speaker 1: control and also just to really absorb the content more.
Speaker 1: I don't get to take the conversation in as much
Speaker 1: as you guys do when i'm recording them live, because
Speaker 1: I'm juggling so many balls in the air, I'm watching
Speaker 1: people's volumes, I'm adjusting so many things for the stream,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the next question. I'm just doing a
Speaker 1: lot of shit. So I do catch a lot of
Speaker 1: things later after I've recorded, and I listened back and
Speaker 1: I get to hear it more as a fan and
Speaker 1: a listener and go, oh yeah, fuck Merkshield, that was
Speaker 1: a great point. Oh good stuff, Festige. I wish i'd
Speaker 1: heard that like more in the moment and I would
Speaker 1: have followed up with that. And I was just listening
Speaker 1: and I was like, fuck, Josh, shut up. Like I
Speaker 1: spoke so much on the last episode, and it was
Speaker 1: very ranty and sort of speaking at you guys rather
Speaker 1: than talking with you guys at the pub like I
Speaker 1: prefer to do. So don't get me wrong, there's always,
Speaker 1: you know, a time and a place for a good rant.
Speaker 1: But I just wouldn't shut the fuck up last episode.
Speaker 1: So the plan this episode is without sort of completely
Speaker 1: taking my hands off the wheel, you know, and sort
Speaker 1: of just going, oh, you guys, just make content for
Speaker 1: me while I sit here and record it. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'll be here and I'll be engaging with you guys,
Speaker 1: But I really want to hear from you guys, the listeners,
Speaker 1: the people, the engine that makes countdown to Classic rum
Speaker 1: about the events of the last week. And I'll just
Speaker 1: give you guys a little primer if you're not sure
Speaker 1: about what's happened over the last week. So at the
Speaker 1: top of the last episode, you would have heard me say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: by the way, there's a new server, Bronze Beard starting up.
Speaker 1: I know we've been talking a lot about Epoch over
Speaker 1: the last six weeks, but we will be checking I
Speaker 1: will be checking out this server as well. It's another
Speaker 1: new private server that's come along in this sort of
Speaker 1: era of the wild wild West of private servers that
Speaker 1: we are living through right now, when people are trying
Speaker 1: to fill the void of the lack of a good
Speaker 1: Blizzard Classic product at the moment, if you're not a
Speaker 1: Mop enjoyer or you're not an Anniversary enjoyer. So basically,
Speaker 1: the Ascension team, the people who for what we presume,
Speaker 1: purchased to Project Epoch when it was going through troubles
Speaker 1: and host it Now always had their own similar but
Speaker 1: not product coming out around this time. In terms of
Speaker 1: their take on a Classic Plus Now, we'll talk with
Speaker 1: all the guys about whether or not it it fits
Speaker 1: that Classic Plus mold, But basically it's a it's a
Speaker 1: more expansive take, to say the least. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more in this game. It's a little bit wilder. But
Speaker 1: I knew nothing of it outside of the ascension was
Speaker 1: releasing a server. That's all I knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Bronze Beyard, Bronze Beard, Yeah yeah, sure, yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that's coming. Yeah yeah. I had no fucking idea of
Speaker 1: the content of the server. I did zero fucking research,
Speaker 1: literally just in the dark, and I, shit you not.
Speaker 1: About seventy two hours before release, I said, I better
Speaker 1: check out what this whole Bronze Beard thing is about.
Speaker 1: And I looked into it, and it's quite like the
Speaker 1: shock to the senses when you do take in their
Speaker 1: really informative, really large manifesto on the content of the
Speaker 1: server on their website. There's a lot to go through,
Speaker 1: and you know, I seem to have a relatively similar
Speaker 1: take to many of the guys that I was talking
Speaker 1: to in the discord, where I was like, hmm, okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's a lot to take in. But now that
Speaker 1: I've read it, I do quite like about seventy five
Speaker 1: percent of what I've heard. The other twenty five percent, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little bit funny about but fuck it.
Speaker 1: You know, I'll try anything once. I'll give it a go.
Speaker 1: And look, it's also got a shop that will be
Speaker 1: you know, I want to get to that conversation a
Speaker 1: little bit later on about the page to win nature
Speaker 1: of the shop and what constitutes pay to win. You know,
Speaker 1: I very much so think it's pay to win. I've
Speaker 1: made no uncertainty about that in the discord over the
Speaker 1: last few days. It's I just left it as look,
Speaker 1: this is a this is an argument over how offended
Speaker 1: you are by these items, as opposed to whether or
Speaker 1: not they are pay to win in my personal opinion.
Speaker 1: So that's something to sort of reconcile with when you
Speaker 1: consider this server. So I jumped online yesterday when it launched,
Speaker 1: and you know, guys, I need you to know a
Speaker 1: bit more about me as a player before I sort
Speaker 1: of start telling you what I think of this server,
Speaker 1: and I would think you know a bit about me
Speaker 1: as a player from listening to the show. I'm not
Speaker 1: averse to many different versions of Wow. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not what we have now quote unquote lovingly come to
Speaker 1: refer to as an errorrist. You know, I'm not a
Speaker 1: vanilla for life guy. I've enjoyed SOT thoroughly. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen Classic thoroughly. You guys heard. I started dabbling
Speaker 1: in retail when The War Within came out and Shock
Speaker 1: and Horror, I kind of enjoyed it. I didn't play,
Speaker 1: you know, NonStop for the last year, but I have
Speaker 1: ducked in and out of the War Within and had
Speaker 1: a good time. I am someone who is open to
Speaker 1: different MMO interpretations. And I'm not a you know, person
Speaker 1: who really attacks other people for liking their MMO and
Speaker 1: not my mmo. You know, I played Final Fantasy fourteen.
Speaker 1: I just I like playing different MMOs. I'm an MMO guy.
Speaker 1: That's cool. If it's more modern, like Retail or Final
Speaker 1: Fantasy fourteen, fuck yeah, I'll check it out and I'll
Speaker 1: probably have fun. If it's more of a classic style
Speaker 1: game like your you know, twenty nineteen classics or you
Speaker 1: know OSRS or things like that. Fuck yeah, I'll try
Speaker 1: it out. I'm just open to different things, and I
Speaker 1: have had fun across a multitude of different styles of games.
Speaker 1: So I think that in and of itself almost makes
Speaker 1: me a little bit of a different player in that
Speaker 1: I I come across a lot of Wow, classic gamers
Speaker 1: who are very you know, stuck in their ways for
Speaker 1: the particular game that they like, and it is hard
Speaker 1: to move the needle for a lot of people, whereas
Speaker 1: I really am, you know, sort of footloose and fancy free.
Speaker 1: I'll try anything once, whatever, and I'll probably have fun.
Speaker 1: There's been very few servers that have come out over
Speaker 1: the years that I've been like, oh, this is fucking terrible.
Speaker 1: So I tried Bronze Beard, and you know, we played
Speaker 1: the first twenty four hours yesterday. I got to like
Speaker 1: level nineteen and Shock Horror. I had a good time.
Speaker 1: It's is it like the greatest thing since Slice Spread? No,
Speaker 1: I would hold back from that. You know, I'm still here.
Speaker 1: I'm a bit confused because I'm like, how I'm still
Speaker 1: reconciling my feelings, and you know, I had I had
Speaker 1: a good time leveling on Bronze Beard, but I also
Speaker 1: had a fucking great time leveling on Epoch, and I
Speaker 1: sort of them loathed to sit here and compare the
Speaker 1: two because they're so different, you know. Now it's sort
Speaker 1: of like which I have more fun with, and like
Speaker 1: I really am enjoying both. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: have like a preference right now twenty four hours in,
Speaker 1: but that could change with more experience on Bronze Beard.
Speaker 1: So I'm just here trying it out. And like I
Speaker 1: said to all you Epoch guys, there's already sort of
Speaker 1: a split happening with you know, Epoch for Life or no,
Speaker 1: fuck you, let's try Bronze Beard. Blah blah blah. I
Speaker 1: don't think that that there's such different games. It is
Speaker 1: fine to like either one of them. If you are
Speaker 1: leveling on Epoch and you're enjoying it, stick to that.
Speaker 1: Trust me, you probably won't like Bronze Beard. If you're
Speaker 1: really die hard on Epoch, you probably won't like Bronze Beard.
Speaker 1: If you're really hard, you know, got a massive boner
Speaker 1: for Bronze Beard, You're probably not gonna like Epoch. It's
Speaker 1: just perfectly fine to have two very different options out there,
Speaker 1: and I'm dabbling in both, and we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the struggles that Epoch is going through at the
Speaker 1: moment later on as well. But look, that's a massive
Speaker 1: rant at the start, just to set you guys up
Speaker 1: with a bit of information of what's happening. Now. I've
Speaker 1: barely told you anything about the server Bronze Beard for
Speaker 1: a reason because now I'm basically going to pass it
Speaker 1: over to the guys and we're going to talk at
Speaker 1: the pub. This is all a bunch of mates to
Speaker 1: shooting the shit casually. We're going to sort of be
Speaker 1: a little less stuffy than your regular countdown to classic
Speaker 1: episode and just shoot the shit and talk about what
Speaker 1: we've experienced over the last twenty four hours on Bronze Beard.
Speaker 1: And as you hear the guys talk about it, you
Speaker 1: will get a feel for what content is on this server,
Speaker 1: because it's a lot to get through, and I'd have
Speaker 1: to sit here for an hour and go item by
Speaker 1: item in a rather boring fashion to really explain this
Speaker 1: server to you. So just pick it up through osmosis
Speaker 1: as the guys go through it. So guys. Look, there's
Speaker 1: about fifteen of you here. I thank you so much
Speaker 1: for sitting there and listening to that ten minute intro.
Speaker 1: I now get to throw it to you guys and
Speaker 1: sort of say, Jesus take the wheel, please countdown, listeners,
Speaker 1: I help me. I only hope drive this episode, and
Speaker 1: I'll start. I'll throw it out, I'll nominate a name,
Speaker 1: and then I want you guys to just, you know,
Speaker 1: really talk amongst yourselves like you were doing before I
Speaker 1: joined the channel. Merk, If it's okay with you, mate,
Speaker 1: if I can start with you, and we got introduced
Speaker 1: to you last week on the show, was such a
Speaker 1: delight to meet you. We heard the funny story about
Speaker 1: how we thought you were the head of the Classic
Speaker 1: team for a while, but not so mate. The easy
Speaker 1: question that I'll get everyone to answer here for maybe
Speaker 1: the opening half an hour is tell me about your
Speaker 1: first impressions of Bronze Beard.
Speaker 2: I fucking love it. It's it feels like a wholly
Speaker 2: different beast. It's not. It's definitely not.
Speaker 3: It definitely doesn't feel like Classic. Plus it feels way
Speaker 3: too that they mean that bad a week It's uh,
Speaker 3: it feels better. It feels better there, and in that
Speaker 3: it's more of a finished product.
Speaker 2: It's not as buggy.
Speaker 3: It does have This has its issues, and it does
Speaker 3: have have.
Speaker 2: It's uh again, but it's not as bad as that's already.
Speaker 2: But just for what it is, it's a great experience.
Speaker 2: I love the talents.
Speaker 4: I love what they did with the starting zones.
Speaker 1: Sorry I just jump jump a little closer to your microphone.
Speaker 5: Sorry, man, I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2: And mostly I love the difficulty of the dungeons.
Speaker 4: They are freaking insanely difficult here.
Speaker 2: If you thought the dungeons on Epoch were challenging, ah,
Speaker 2: the dungeons here on bron Hey can I canke buy album?
Speaker 1: I agree, I did. We did a couple of dungeons
Speaker 1: together last night, and you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: scare people too much because like it's it's probably not
Speaker 1: as bad as we're going to make it sound. But
Speaker 1: I mean we were joking at the end that RFC
Speaker 1: was like a raid. It just kicked. Oh, it kicked
Speaker 1: our fucking asses. And then like we did it, we
Speaker 1: did a raise a fen downs afterwards that was blatantly
Speaker 1: easier and but like still challenging, but blatantly easier, and
Speaker 1: we're like, I mean, maybe that's the scaling for you.
Speaker 1: And RFC is the first dungeon. It's just really wonky.
Speaker 1: But fuck I was tanking RC and I got my
Speaker 1: ass handed to me. Like we got through it, but
Speaker 1: they hit so fucking hard and we were like, this
Speaker 1: is the first dungeon of the game. Is a pug killer.
Speaker 6: I'm actually in it right now, you know, right now?
Speaker 1: How's it going? Tell us how it's going?
Speaker 7: Ah, So it's so good. It's it's play slower pace
Speaker 7: than what Classic, like Classic nineteen felt like. If you
Speaker 7: can't just face roll it, there's definitely new abilities that
Speaker 7: will catch you off guard if you're not paying attention.
Speaker 7: I caught the tail end of a BFD on my
Speaker 7: first dungeon queue, so that was kind of fun just
Speaker 7: to see some of the changes already on That made
Speaker 7: me want to play so od rate again. But yeah,
Speaker 7: I mean Classic plus is such a hard, a hard
Speaker 7: beast of tackle because no, there's no one thing set
Speaker 7: in stone as to what it needs to be. You know,
Speaker 7: the Rapha lich King talents just rounding out classes and
Speaker 7: making every class viable in some way, like that's enough
Speaker 7: to make Classic plus, like Classic plus if you just
Speaker 7: added talents that make the classes more viable, and some
Speaker 7: people might call that good. You know, I'm enjoying finding
Speaker 7: all these cool little knick knacks around the world that
Speaker 7: are either just cool transmogs or you know, I found
Speaker 7: a Mason Terrace fog lades that as a powered in
Speaker 7: was super rep at level eight. You know, just snagging
Speaker 7: this cool weapon that had some haste on it and
Speaker 7: some spell power at level eight, you just feel like
Speaker 7: a freaking beast. But you're still not just like grabbing
Speaker 7: seven mobs and face rolling through everything, like you still
Speaker 7: got to be smart about what you're doing. And it's
Speaker 7: it's fun so far.
Speaker 1: If we can talk about that for a little bit,
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from other people, Like I'll just
Speaker 1: say my piece real quick in terms of I completely agree,
Speaker 1: like the fucking the best part of the server for
Speaker 1: me so far. I know, Murky, you probably would think
Speaker 1: you've already said the best part of the server is
Speaker 1: the dungeon difficulty. That's great, it is very engaging. The
Speaker 1: best part for me, I completely free, like right there
Speaker 1: with Vile. The amount of shit that you find in
Speaker 1: the open world. It is the SOD System on Drugs
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, obviously in SOD you would
Speaker 1: have to go out in the open world and find
Speaker 1: your ruins, and you really needed these ruins to empower
Speaker 1: your abilities and power up your character. But you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, there were only so
Speaker 1: many runs to find. There went like that many. In
Speaker 1: this version of you know, Classic plus the Ascension is
Speaker 1: putting forward. Now they've got about forty or fifty things
Speaker 1: per zone that you can go out and find. Now,
Speaker 1: when I say things, I don't mean like ruins, like
Speaker 1: you know, power ups for your class. They are there,
Speaker 1: but it's like you said, there's just green items floating everywhere,
Speaker 1: and you are so encouraged to go and look in
Speaker 1: every fucking nook and cranny in the open world. If
Speaker 1: you walk by a building, my fucking god, you better
Speaker 1: walk inside that building to have a look if there's
Speaker 1: something hanging on the walls that's glowing, because it could
Speaker 1: be a really fucking cool power up for you, an upgrade.
Speaker 1: You know, there could be a blue weapon sitting right
Speaker 1: there on the wall for you to just easily take
Speaker 1: no fight or anything, just oh, I found something that
Speaker 1: will improve my character and that exploration aspect is really
Speaker 1: been pumped up on this surban. For me, it's easily
Speaker 1: the number one point about it. I have fucking loved it.
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed it because there's it's not just one
Speaker 1: or two things, like they're shit everywhere. And granted, look,
Speaker 1: there is a downside to this too in terms of
Speaker 1: people saying it waters down the feeling of you know,
Speaker 1: hooray I found an upgrade. You know that people obviously
Speaker 1: really had accentuated in hardcore where you know, you upgrades
Speaker 1: a few and far between, and when you get an upgrade,
Speaker 1: it feels so impactful because you're like, fuck, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that is watered down to an extent here for sure,
Speaker 1: Like you do upgrade your weapon fairly consistently, like people
Speaker 1: are saying, And it happened to me too, The fuck
Speaker 1: I changed my weapon five times in the starting zone. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I still found it really fun
Speaker 1: to continue to find new shit. What do you guys
Speaker 1: think about this exploration aspect and how has it impacted
Speaker 1: you and your enjoyment or do you not like it?
Speaker 5: I think it's a great I mean it's it's a
Speaker 5: whole new dynamic to the game. Yeah, it gives you
Speaker 5: something extra to do.
Speaker 7: I literally went in the cave and the barren, sorry
Speaker 7: that I haven't been into since original Vanilla, because it
Speaker 7: literally just goes to the end and there's some NPCs mining,
Speaker 7: and I found a one headed weapon to throw on
Speaker 7: form my tank and shield. I was like, I haven't
Speaker 7: been in here since Vanilla. I'm gonna go in there
Speaker 7: and sit it through in there, And it was as
Speaker 7: simple as that. Walk down, there's some guys mining, and
Speaker 7: I grabbed the weapon and walked out.
Speaker 1: But then you also you're encouraged to because like you're
Speaker 1: you're like you're I keep calling them runs, but you know,
Speaker 1: on this serve they called mystical enchantments, but I mean, fuck,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'll just call them ruins for aes.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but that the spell power ups are
Speaker 1: in the open world as well, So like you, it's
Speaker 1: it's even if you've got all the best ski, you're
Speaker 1: still encouraged to go and look around because you need
Speaker 1: these fucking these mystical enchantments or ruins.
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely. And the other thing too is you know,
Speaker 5: while you're out and about, there's new right, new rare
Speaker 5: mobs too, like easy and I were out and about
Speaker 5: in Baron's uh yeh last night and ran across a
Speaker 5: crazy druid.
Speaker 1: That well to push your pushed your in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it pretty much bent me over. It took me
Speaker 5: for a ride, like the it's the red all the.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 5: Here's the thing though, too, is it dropped a mystool
Speaker 5: and chat, you know, and it happens to be a
Speaker 5: mystican chant that would be good for feral druids. So
Speaker 5: I mean you're you're not just looking at like you said,
Speaker 5: weapons and armor and all that stuff too. Hell, when
Speaker 5: you first start in the starting zone, there's water, there's
Speaker 5: food sitting there. It's a tin slot bag. There's a
Speaker 5: tin slot bag. Yeah, there's a bag that drops off
Speaker 5: of damn near request. Yeah. The porn it is it definitely.
Speaker 5: I mean you you know, all the rpers out there
Speaker 5: are probably gonna go, oh, well that doesn't make any sense,
Speaker 5: But that's fine.
Speaker 1: I think they went a bit nuts with the bags.
Speaker 1: Like it gets to a point where it's it's like
Speaker 1: at first it's interesting and you go oh sweet about
Speaker 1: oh fuck yeah bag oh another bag?
Speaker 8: Fuck?
Speaker 1: Yes, this is amazing and then it quickly turns to yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I've got enough bags, thanks quest givers, like that's enough
Speaker 1: for now, and then it turns into like, guys seriously
Speaker 1: like fuck off with the bags?
Speaker 5: Yeah for something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you just get so many of them.
Speaker 9: Yeah, now has better bags than my level forty nine
Speaker 9: and yeah an amount which I mean you get basically
Speaker 9: for free. There's no challenge. It's just like, hey, mount
Speaker 9: and you're like.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, yeah, so there'll be a lot of people
Speaker 1: not knowing what you're talking about. Anti explain it and
Speaker 1: tell us what you guys think of it. Yes, you're
Speaker 1: correct basically, So like if you're an orc or troll,
Speaker 1: as soon as you get to Sensient Village, here's a
Speaker 1: free mount, a forty percent mount that you can now
Speaker 1: ride around the world. This is a really big line
Speaker 1: in the sand for some people. Look, I get that
Speaker 1: it's odd. It doesn't make me like overly upset, but
Speaker 1: I understand why it would make other people upset. Auntie,
Speaker 1: how did.
Speaker 5: You feel about it?
Speaker 1: And then I want to hear how the other guys
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 9: You know, it's so crazy. I literally just log back
Speaker 9: into Epoch and snakes literally flog back in here, and
Speaker 9: it's like this place just first, so much better. It's basically,
Speaker 9: and he said it, he summed it up, is click
Speaker 9: here for your reward, and it's exactly that. Oh I
Speaker 9: found something on the ground. I've brought a new weapon.
Speaker 9: I've changed that six times in the last thirty minutes
Speaker 9: because I keep finding new things. Here's in your reward.
Speaker 9: Here's a new thing. It's a flashy, flashy in front
Speaker 9: of your face. You know, I don't want that. I
Speaker 9: don't want to be just haind fed stuff. Oh my god,
Speaker 9: my inventory is now filled with bags and my big bag.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have got so much shit beat.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's it's I think there's a there's
Speaker 10: a middle ground between having to wait through a mount
Speaker 10: and forty and getting it at.
Speaker 5: The level five.
Speaker 10: I don't think necessarily the Epoch way is the right way,
Speaker 10: but I don't think the level of five mountain is
Speaker 10: the right way.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: It just feels like it is literally playing on the
Speaker 9: biggest dopamine rush of your life. Like everyone plays it
Speaker 9: because we all like flashy things, and we like a
Speaker 9: dopamine hit. Beaten flashy things and that thing. Oh, it
Speaker 9: is playing on that card, like it's it's not tripling
Speaker 9: down on that card, it's just taking that card and
Speaker 9: just basically throwing the deck in your face and then
Speaker 9: just like you are gonna have the dope hit of
Speaker 9: a lifetime if you like clicking on things and getting
Speaker 9: free shit.
Speaker 10: Yeah. I tried to log in just now and I
Speaker 10: was like, oh, this is not for me.
Speaker 2: Fair enough.
Speaker 1: Now I'm out, and that's fine, snack. We'll come back
Speaker 1: to you, because I do want to hear more about it,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I want to hear the constructive
Speaker 1: positives and the constructive negatives for sure, because.
Speaker 10: I mean, it's a confusing because I by no means
Speaker 10: think that it's like just doom and gloom, because I
Speaker 10: think there are a lot of cool things I really enjoyed,
Speaker 10: like the exploration part that's already been mentioned, that you
Speaker 10: like find these cool items here and there. But the
Speaker 10: issue is that, like I feel like all the cool
Speaker 10: things that they do, they just do way too much.
Speaker 10: If they did it but in a smaller scale, it
Speaker 10: would be so much.
Speaker 9: Better that that.
Speaker 6: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, all right now that you fucking said something,
Speaker 1: we're going to throw you in for you your virgin run.
Speaker 8: Yeah, here he is.
Speaker 1: He's all stretched up, he's ready to put some impact
Speaker 1: off the bench. He's made in cap On countdown, the classic.
Speaker 1: Come on mate, come on cam see, let's do it.
Speaker 11: I've been getting more involved. I've been hanging out with
Speaker 11: the boys more. It's been really fun. And yeah, I
Speaker 11: got to I was really loving Epoch. I got to
Speaker 11: fifty five, had my sharma going, got Jill Speck and
Speaker 11: it was great. And then now that I've started this,
Speaker 11: I'm kind of just like, I don't know if I
Speaker 11: could go back that it's it's I was at level
Speaker 11: fifty five on my enhancement Sharman and my rotation was
Speaker 11: flame Shock, you know, storm Strike, water Shield and that
Speaker 11: that's pretty much it. You put your tones down, then
Speaker 11: you've got three buttons and then I'm level twelve now
Speaker 11: and I've got you know, almost the same amount, and
Speaker 11: I can just tell it's going to be, you know,
Speaker 11: a lot more going on. And I completely agree it's
Speaker 11: this thing's full on. And if I just imagine this
Speaker 11: sweet spot between Epoch and this and that'd be you know,
Speaker 11: my jam. But like on Epoch, the thought of starting
Speaker 11: and all is just like I'm not. I'm not doing that,
Speaker 11: Like that's going to take fucking ages. But on here,
Speaker 11: I'm like, oh, I could try this other thing and
Speaker 11: I'll get up to the level ten really quick and
Speaker 11: you know, I'll be able to get around and it's
Speaker 11: just fun like this is this is more my jam,
Speaker 11: to be honest, and it's just yeah, Epoch's great, but
Speaker 11: it's very much, very very close to Vanilla, and I
Speaker 11: think I've just had my fair share of that kind
Speaker 11: of thing. This still feels like you're in azaoth. That's
Speaker 11: the number one most important thing for me for like
Speaker 11: a C plus and but otherwise I'm I'm I'm all
Speaker 11: in for like extra stuff, a bit more, you know,
Speaker 11: a bit faster leveling and yeah, so just sort of
Speaker 11: rambling it at this stage, but yeah, I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 1: No, maybe you did rambled like a veteran. I appreciated it. Guys,
Speaker 1: do anything that Campsey said there resonate with any of you.
Speaker 12: Can I just jump in and touch on the talk
Speaker 12: about the dopamine, Yeah, go for it. Also, by the way,
Speaker 12: near here, thank you for having me.
Speaker 13: Yeah.
Speaker 12: No, I just wanted to jump in and say, like
Speaker 12: being somebody that has really enjoyed the server and is
Speaker 12: pretty positive about it. I will say kind of the
Speaker 12: overload of dopamine almost takes away from it because I
Speaker 12: feel like part of the fun that we all enjoy
Speaker 12: is when you get an upgrade, you're like, oh, man,
Speaker 12: I got this fucking awesome weapon. It feels really good.
Speaker 12: They kind of pushed it a little bit too far
Speaker 12: here for me because you don't really get the dopamine anymore.
Speaker 14: Yeah, And I would say yes or no, because it
Speaker 14: also depends what you're playing, Like as a powad in
Speaker 14: everything behind is always useful, like I'm the rest, I'm
Speaker 14: only looking for two handers.
Speaker 5: Yeahs now, you know.
Speaker 7: And I've been playing actually some Guild Wars two last
Speaker 7: couple of months for the first time. And something I
Speaker 7: realized in playing that Verus Classic is like, there are
Speaker 7: certain things things that in Classic kind of keep you
Speaker 7: from playing the game, you know, getting it getting him
Speaker 7: out early makes me not go, God, damn it, I've
Speaker 7: got to run all the way to town, go down
Speaker 7: there just to turn in one quest, to run all
Speaker 7: the way back. I'm like, sweet, it'll take me no
Speaker 7: time at all to run in there, turn in this
Speaker 7: quest in under city, go back up and then go
Speaker 7: back out to the lake and back again four times.
Speaker 7: Like running between point A and point B isn't playing
Speaker 7: the game if you've never been in the world, if
Speaker 7: you've been in the world as much as we have,
Speaker 7: it's just tedious. And some of these things like yeah,
Speaker 7: getting it. Maybe maybe make it a little harder, Maybe
Speaker 7: make a level ten, not just here you go free
Speaker 7: at five, but letting people play the game because they
Speaker 7: can actually get around, you're not just wasting time AFK
Speaker 7: walk hero Like it's huge for me.
Speaker 1: I'll just jump in at this point and just say
Speaker 1: on that point, vile. I hear what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: I'm like mostly with you, don't get me wrong, but
Speaker 1: I also have to take the time, have a little
Speaker 1: bit of and please don't take this long the wrong way.
Speaker 1: I do laugh a little bit when I hear it,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, hang on, we've heard this song and
Speaker 1: dance before, because you know, and we've gone this way
Speaker 1: with sod and everything. Where where when people say, you know,
Speaker 1: why can't we go a little bit faster, why can't
Speaker 1: we do things a little bit differently? All the errorsts
Speaker 1: would generally point to statements like that and go, mate,
Speaker 1: that's exactly how we wound up with retail. Do you
Speaker 1: sort of see the fun side of it where we
Speaker 1: do start to want a little bit more out of
Speaker 1: the game and people do pull out. Obviously the slippery
Speaker 1: slope argument of like you wake up the next moment
Speaker 1: you're in retail.
Speaker 7: You see.
Speaker 8: Can I add something about.
Speaker 15: Yeah, you go now, hello, I seem to remember you.
Speaker 1: You're a guy that used to call in the countdown
Speaker 1: to classic.
Speaker 8: Yeah every now and then?
Speaker 1: How are you, mate, tasty grain everyone?
Speaker 2: Hey Hello.
Speaker 8: I thought that that was like a pretty interesting kind
Speaker 8: of like perspective, But I feel like the context of
Speaker 8: it being on a private server is like pretty important.
Speaker 16: You know.
Speaker 8: I think it's cool that these private serves exist and
Speaker 8: that we can kind of like examine the environments where
Speaker 8: it's like we kind of take all the guardrails off
Speaker 8: and like, you know, like you said, it sounded like
Speaker 8: you're getting your mound at ten or something like that.
Speaker 8: But I think that if you ask people if that's
Speaker 8: what they would want from like an official Blizzard release,
Speaker 8: there would be like more reservation. So I don't think
Speaker 8: that it's exactly like an endorsement of like the slippery
Speaker 8: slope of like how you get to retail. I think
Speaker 8: it's like I would imagine that sorry, what was his name, Adam? Yeah,
Speaker 8: I imagine that he's just like enjoying the fact that,
Speaker 8: like we're we're getting to see a like realized version
Speaker 8: of like like you said, you know, the nostalgia is
Speaker 8: like wearing off with classic, right, so you're like, uh,
Speaker 8: some of the things that you love before starting to
Speaker 8: become tedious. So I think you're just like enjoying the
Speaker 8: fact that you know, there's a developer now that can,
Speaker 8: like with zero cost to the reputation of the original game,
Speaker 8: you know, give you this experience that's like yeah, man,
Speaker 8: just like get in there and just like me in
Speaker 8: like you guys were saying and stuff like that, like
Speaker 8: have it pushed at eleven?
Speaker 1: You said something there that is interesting to me And sorry, guys,
Speaker 1: we're going to go on a million tangents during this one,
Speaker 1: I think. But I have also been thinking over the
Speaker 1: last twenty four hours. I'd love to see if you
Speaker 1: guys have been having the same thought, because it sounds
Speaker 1: like you probably have. You know, imagine if Blizzard released
Speaker 1: this server as is everything shop and all same content.
Speaker 1: Here's the next game brought to you by Blizzard. The
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say the reactions would be
Speaker 1: excessively different, is that Camcy? You reckon?
Speaker 13: Hey?
Speaker 11: I'm loving the server, but if Blizzard released this thing,
Speaker 11: I'd be fucking like, what a do it?
Speaker 17: Okay?
Speaker 18: Why?
Speaker 1: Why why do we hold different standards for I know
Speaker 1: the answer, private server developers versus Blizzard.
Speaker 11: I mean, that's good. That's a really good question. I
Speaker 11: don't know quite how to answer it exactly, but it's
Speaker 11: just a bit too it's just a bit too wild.
Speaker 11: And you know you're in the starting zone and someone's
Speaker 11: on a Ragnaros mount or what have you, and it's
Speaker 11: just like you can't put your pit. You can't say
Speaker 11: exactly why, but you're just like, no, that that can't
Speaker 11: can't be in the in the official version.
Speaker 10: But the answer is very easy, isn't it. It's that's
Speaker 10: because they don't have a sub so they have to
Speaker 10: have some form of revie revenue, right, so they put
Speaker 10: the cash up into everything.
Speaker 11: So sure.
Speaker 1: Do you think the lack of no, no, you go
Speaker 1: you more interesting? Trust me.
Speaker 11: Just gonna like I'm if that if people paying for
Speaker 11: mounts makes my experience. It's free and I can enjoy
Speaker 11: the pots that I like. Then I'm like, that's that's
Speaker 11: all good. Yeah this if I'm paying, it's a different story.
Speaker 7: Like somehow, this also has the context that's like Blizzard saying, Okay,
Speaker 7: everything that you've earned in retail, you can now vanity
Speaker 7: over the classic. And that's where I think part of
Speaker 7: maybe some of the bad taste is all the long
Speaker 7: time Ascension players are able to take all these crazy
Speaker 7: and wonky things and introduce it into a world where
Speaker 7: they don't exist.
Speaker 19: Now, if this.
Speaker 7: Server launched fresh, where you know, we're gonna have all
Speaker 7: these cool things and you've got to go find them
Speaker 7: and unlock them for yourself, and it was within that
Speaker 7: context of that world only, I think it might have
Speaker 7: a different a little bit of a different flavor to
Speaker 7: it too, if that makes any sense. You know you're
Speaker 7: gonna have everyone starting off with that basic mount. You're
Speaker 7: not going to have that corehound running around at level
Speaker 7: five right when you log into the game, because someone's
Speaker 7: been playing on this this established brand.
Speaker 11: I said, So if people have been playing a SA
Speaker 11: prior to this service, they can just bring all this
Speaker 11: stuff into this one is.
Speaker 7: That there's a paid vanity, well the vanity, there's like
Speaker 7: a paid weight to vanity over what you've unlocked. You
Speaker 7: can unlock transmogs and Mounce and all those things, and
Speaker 7: you can port them over since you've paid for them
Speaker 7: within this totally part of our that's there. I think.
Speaker 1: So is it the lack of a subfee the shields
Speaker 1: this server from a lot of the criticism that we
Speaker 1: would directed the is that what you guys are getting at,
Speaker 1: Like you if you logged onto Blizzard's Classic Plus and
Speaker 1: you were paying your twenty dollars a month and you
Speaker 1: see that Ragnaros mount next to you at level five,
Speaker 1: and you get your mount at level five and you
Speaker 1: see all this wild shit. Do you think the same
Speaker 1: people that are playing this game and going we and
Speaker 1: loving it and going on this is so cool would
Speaker 1: then play the same thing from Blizzard but they're paying
Speaker 1: twenty bucks for it and start writing on the forums
Speaker 1: you fucking pieces of shit? How could you do Classic
Speaker 1: dirty like this?
Speaker 7: I think if Blizzard launch with like a full on
Speaker 7: shop right off the bat, yes, but if if your
Speaker 7: Ragnaros mount was unlocked for killing mcs, sixty and then
Speaker 7: you're able to on your all now ride this Ragnaros
Speaker 7: mount that you've earned from that classic plus Like, if
Speaker 7: they shield it like that, I think they'd be better off.
Speaker 7: But if they just launched off, like all right, credit card,
Speaker 7: what kind of cool stuff do you want at level one? Yeah,
Speaker 7: you're gonna get that reaction for sure.
Speaker 1: All Right, guys, we might We'll keep going through well
Speaker 1: peace by piece, talk about the content of this server,
Speaker 1: and you know, we'll take the good end the bad
Speaker 1: as it comes up. We've talked about, you know, the
Speaker 1: early level mounts. We've talked about the exploration side of things.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that I'll start off just another
Speaker 1: little tangent. You know, there are different play styles. It's
Speaker 1: got you know, things that we did start to see
Speaker 1: in Epoch. It's got your smite priest, it's got your
Speaker 1: tank sharman. You know, I rolled a tank Shaman, and
Speaker 1: I actually don't. It's funny because I'm not married to
Speaker 1: being a tank. I actually don't particularly want to be
Speaker 1: a tank. I'll happily do it every now and again,
Speaker 1: but I'm not really a tank per se. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to see what Bronzebeard's take on the Shaman tank
Speaker 1: was compared to SOD Again, I want to know. I'm
Speaker 1: playing everything because I want to know what I like,
Speaker 1: what works, what doesn't work, to better inform me when
Speaker 1: I go into whatever Blizzard offers, because then at least
Speaker 1: I've played everything and I can say, hey, I Blizzard,
Speaker 1: I can see you've done this, but you know Epoch
Speaker 1: actually did it this way, or Bronzebeard actually did it
Speaker 1: this way and it was better or worse, and you
Speaker 1: know it just I feel more informed. But like the
Speaker 1: Shaman tank on Bronze Beard, like I said, I've only
Speaker 1: done RFC and I didn't actually tank our Razor fn
Speaker 1: downs run Merkshield took over, so merk W'll involved you
Speaker 1: in this one as well. It felt, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: on the Bronze Bitserver is glazing the Shaman tank from
Speaker 1: the Alpha or the PTR or whatever, going, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's so fun. It's the most fun fucking speccing the game.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so fun. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, but I mean, I said to
Speaker 1: the guys, granted, remember everything is only after twenty four
Speaker 1: hours of play testing. I enjoyed SOD shaman tank more
Speaker 1: to this point. I still enjoy this, but I think
Speaker 1: the SOD one has a slight edge right now in
Speaker 1: the early levels. Merk Wall was your take on it?
Speaker 1: How did it feel to you?
Speaker 2: I felt human tanks feels pretty good.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting way to take that you have to t.
Speaker 2: Used to, but it felt perfectly good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just grab grab your microphone again, made swallow your
Speaker 1: mic Sorry, you're right.
Speaker 3: It has a good you got your temple.
Speaker 2: Pen and multi regulating. So I feel that it's pretty fun.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it's the great it's taking the world,
Speaker 4: but it's and they did a good job with it.
Speaker 2: And the fact that you can get it just by leveling.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like uh perrel druid.
Speaker 4: Cat or a full bear and it's a hundsment shaman
Speaker 4: and you just to go or get some talents here
Speaker 4: there make.
Speaker 7: You ask what allowed? What what the difference is like
Speaker 7: what allows shamans a tank so far versus like the
Speaker 7: runes that made it possible on so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so they get they get insolved. I'll be
Speaker 1: this one if I struggling to hear you a little
Speaker 1: bit now mack. So they've introduced a new talent in
Speaker 1: the first row of the enhancement tree called Totemic Bond,
Speaker 1: which you can put three points into and I'll just
Speaker 1: read the tooltip for you. Using Stone Law Totem while
Speaker 1: Earth and Guardian is active, has a one hundred percent
Speaker 1: chance to reduce all damage taken by twenty percent for
Speaker 1: six seconds. In addition, one hundred percent of the threat
Speaker 1: generated by the damage if your searing totem and magmatotem
Speaker 1: will be redirected to you instead, so it sends all
Speaker 1: your totem threat to you rather than mobs running to
Speaker 1: kill the totem. And it I mentioned an ability there
Speaker 1: called Earth and Guardian, which is new. That's your tank
Speaker 1: stance that you get natively when you ding level ten,
Speaker 1: So they just give it to you, right, you go
Speaker 1: to your Yeah, you go to your trainer at level
Speaker 1: ten you learn this new ability called Earth and Guardian,
Speaker 1: and I'll read you the tooltip from Earth and Guardian
Speaker 1: Earthen Guardian one hundred and forty five men. A three
Speaker 1: second cast reduces all damage taken by five percent, but
Speaker 1: also reduce your damage and healing done by twenty five percent.
Speaker 1: In addition, threat generated is increased by one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty percent, and winshi no longer reduces your threat. If you, guys,
Speaker 1: remember when you kick something as a shaman, it actually
Speaker 1: drops your threat in wrath or whatever as well. So
Speaker 1: they've gotten rid of that so you can kick with
Speaker 1: reckless abandon as a tank sharman and not worry about
Speaker 1: losing threat. So yeah, a lot of people balked at
Speaker 1: the like, oh fuck it. Wait, tank stance only reduces
Speaker 1: damage by five percent for a shaman, Like is that
Speaker 1: going to be enough at the higher levels? That sounds like, mate,
Speaker 1: you're not wearing plate. They you could get your ass
Speaker 1: kicked by mobs later on, and that may well be
Speaker 1: the case. I'm not sure. It doesn't seem to have
Speaker 1: reports from people who've been playing Bronze Beard for a
Speaker 1: long time that the tank Charman is particularly squishy. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's not like Chonky, but I don't think it's
Speaker 1: necessarily been deemed to be squishy. So yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: you get. But then you also get on top of that,
Speaker 1: there's a third thing, and this is a ruin that
Speaker 1: keeps saying ruins, you know what I mean? Mystical enchantment
Speaker 1: that you find out in the open world. I think
Speaker 1: it's very very easy to find. Actually, no, it's a
Speaker 1: quest reward. It's part of the path to ascensions. So
Speaker 1: when you reach when you reach level fifteen, you get
Speaker 1: this thing pop up going like, hey, congratulations, you can
Speaker 1: now use fucking epic enchants or whatever. Pick one of
Speaker 1: these four and they're all you know, spec related, and
Speaker 1: the tank one is one called if I can just
Speaker 1: pull it up now, it is called earthen spike, and
Speaker 1: its tooltip breeds as follows primal strike, which you know
Speaker 1: as per Rath guys. You get primal strike at level one,
Speaker 1: you get basically, you know, something like a strike ability
Speaker 1: to put in your rotation so you're not board shitless
Speaker 1: when you're leveling a low level shaman. Primal strike no
Speaker 1: longer costs manner and summons an earthen spike below the target,
Speaker 1: dealing high threat physical damage to nearby enemies, and restores
Speaker 1: thirty percent of your base manner. In addition, the cool
Speaker 1: down of primal strike is reduced by two seconds, so
Speaker 1: primal strike then becomes basically a six second cool down.
Speaker 1: It does AOI damage and threat and that thirty percent
Speaker 1: manner return. I can tell you I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever went below seventy percent manner spamming the fuck out
Speaker 1: of every button I had in RFC, and I was shocked.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't run out of manner if I try.
Speaker 7: Okay, Yeah, I mean I played a little bit of
Speaker 7: the tank Shaman early on inside and it was a
Speaker 7: lot of fun dual world tanking. Interesting. Interesting. I was
Speaker 7: just curious, like, kind of what power they gave the
Speaker 7: shaman to tank And it sounds like it's just a
Speaker 7: lot of threat modifiers through some of some of the
Speaker 7: mystic enchantment, some talents and changing up the primal strike.
Speaker 7: That's kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So look like, if you're if you are in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form intrigued by the concept of a shaman tank,
Speaker 1: I would implore you to try this version because you'll
Speaker 1: probably like it. And if you're a bigger sharman like
Speaker 1: I like shamans, but I'm not exactly like a shaman devote.
Speaker 1: If you're, you know, a shaman guy, you'll love this.
Speaker 1: It's just that you get an ability later that's like
Speaker 1: an AoE flameability. I don't have it yet. And that's
Speaker 1: the part of the SOD Shaman taking experience that I
Speaker 1: really miss. I I really miss was a molten blast.
Speaker 10: It's the one that destright No, no, no, sorry, the one
Speaker 10: in SOD with there was like a cone of fire.
Speaker 10: Yeah exactly. It's like it's an early detonation of your
Speaker 10: fire total.
Speaker 1: No no, no, but it's not. No, it's not a detonation
Speaker 1: of your fire tot In SOD they had like a
Speaker 1: cone of cold but fire for Sharman tanks.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that one, yeah, yeah, yeah, what was.
Speaker 1: It called molten bla was it or I can't remember. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that was my favorite button, depressed as a Sharman
Speaker 1: tank inside a lot of dopamine. Out of that one,
Speaker 1: I was always just like, oh, yes, I love this ability.
Speaker 1: I don't even though I've got fire and nova in
Speaker 1: this version of the game, which is a ten second
Speaker 1: cool down, I think you can get that cool down
Speaker 1: down through other ruins to about seven seconds.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just the AOI pulse that you hit manually to
Speaker 1: emit from your fire totem that you're referencing there. So
Speaker 1: that is in the game now. So I do have
Speaker 1: an AOI ability, and it's great, it's just not quite
Speaker 1: the same, doesn't feel as good as malten blast. But
Speaker 1: there is an AOI fire ability coming later down the
Speaker 1: track for me that, like I think emits a lava
Speaker 1: wave or something again, probably in a cone in front
Speaker 1: of me, so that'll be interesting. But yeah, so the
Speaker 1: Sharman tank. Is anyone here in trigues try out the
Speaker 1: Sharman tank.
Speaker 5: I can't wait. I'm thirteen.
Speaker 11: I'm just trying to get to high enough level to
Speaker 11: do RFC.
Speaker 1: Oh mate, I'll I'll have to find some healing gear
Speaker 1: and try and heal an RFC for you. I want
Speaker 1: to see how FW it's fucked. It's absolutely fucked. Poor
Speaker 1: easy Who, now I've decided, is the god of healers.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 7: I'm on the final lost now with the three Void
Speaker 7: Walkers and we just had our white So yeah, I'm
Speaker 7: getting getting first hand experience with it now.
Speaker 1: I feel like if you are in there for the
Speaker 1: first time, it's virtually impossible not to have people die
Speaker 1: on that last fight, and you can avoid the wipe,
Speaker 1: but someone's going to die, and your tank's probably going
Speaker 1: to die. I died both times we did it, and
Speaker 1: easy Who, like I said, I've fucking my god, the
Speaker 1: respect I have for this man now after watching him
Speaker 1: do what he did in this ridiculously hard RFC as
Speaker 1: a healer, tried his little heart out, just spamming heels
Speaker 1: to keep me up pre casting and everything, and I
Speaker 1: just couldn't. Like, there's four mobs beating the leaving sheet
Speaker 1: out of you.
Speaker 5: You got me blushing.
Speaker 17: Man, I'm over here just feeling it right now.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude, tell us about it.
Speaker 15: Yeah, that that place the thing that got me right
Speaker 15: when you start and you're on that downhill descent down
Speaker 15: into RFC, on that ramp, they've put in two pack,
Speaker 15: two trog packs, and that was our kind of first
Speaker 15: realization that IRC is a lot harder because you would
Speaker 15: just walk up right like you got your normal pull
Speaker 15: and it's two mobs coming at you, and me, being
Speaker 15: the healer, I kind of have an expectation based on
Speaker 15: years of classic and other versions of Wow, what's going
Speaker 15: to happen? And dude, they touch you and you're down
Speaker 15: fifty percent. Yeah, so here I am, as the healer.
Speaker 15: I'm thinking, oh shit, this is going to happen again.
Speaker 15: He's going to lose that next fifty percent on their
Speaker 15: next attack, so I'm I'm spamming that button. They ease
Speaker 15: off because we learned.
Speaker 17: It was an ability. I can't remember that any of
Speaker 17: the ability.
Speaker 1: So it's head crack and it takes about twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of damage. And if you've obviously got two trugs
Speaker 1: on you, you're gonna get changed. But they do it
Speaker 1: does seem to have an internal cool down, and they
Speaker 1: only do it about every i don't know, eight seconds
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 15: So then so then you're feeling like, Okay, it's it's
Speaker 15: mellowing out. I kind of I'm easing off the heels again,
Speaker 15: and then they do it again. And so as the healer,
Speaker 15: you're riding these highs and lows of massive amounts of
Speaker 15: chunk damage versus more stable, kind of manageable healing. And
Speaker 15: keep in mind, the first time I did it, dude,
Speaker 15: I hadn't bought Duelspeck, so I.
Speaker 5: Was I was Ellie in there.
Speaker 15: Yeah, And I've listened to Josh talk on podcasts about
Speaker 15: his dissatisfaction with healers, and I'm thinking, oh man, I'm
Speaker 15: gonna view one on the next one. And so I'm
Speaker 15: trying my ass off and I'm not from start to
Speaker 15: finish because I run hill about. Yeah, so my right
Speaker 15: click on your name is my my heel and I
Speaker 15: am just right click rightly, rightly, rightly, NonStop and it's
Speaker 15: barely keeping you up. Then we get to the boss,
Speaker 15: and that first boss, he has a holy mechanic. I'm
Speaker 15: not going to say what it is because I know
Speaker 15: we don't want to spoil, and we wipe.
Speaker 7: We learn the.
Speaker 17: Mcare we handled the second time.
Speaker 1: Did we get to the that one? I will say
Speaker 1: that was my fault. I fucked up massively on that
Speaker 1: first boss.
Speaker 15: I mean, yeah, it's it's a brand new serve and
Speaker 15: there's a lot of things that are happening that don't
Speaker 15: happen in Classic.
Speaker 7: You said you're an m M R gamer. You couldn't
Speaker 7: see that coming.
Speaker 1: No, I actually because I was here's the thing, like
Speaker 1: it's tough where I'm gonna uv loves it when I
Speaker 1: make a million excuses. But like I was so focused
Speaker 1: on this Sharman tank thing, like so overwhelmed, going, fuck,
Speaker 1: how does this thing play? Am I pressing the right buttons?
Speaker 1: I wasn't even watching the boss and he was casting
Speaker 1: something that I really needed to look out for. Didn't
Speaker 1: even see him casting it got my fucking head kicked in.
Speaker 7: We actually handled it fine, but yeah, yeah, it's just funny.
Speaker 7: It just funny to hear.
Speaker 1: The group always did better when I was dead. It
Speaker 1: was great.
Speaker 15: We we then we roll up on that like, oh
Speaker 15: and the other thing too, Like you can tell the
Speaker 15: difficulty of the dungeon by how little the tank and
Speaker 15: healer are talking and how much the dps do talk
Speaker 15: because they're oblivious to everything happening. Yeah, and so Josh
Speaker 15: and I are dead, silent, and we are just like
Speaker 15: white knuckling keyboards, mice grinding, clicking, you know, and these
Speaker 15: guys are just having the time of their lives dps.
Speaker 15: And we get to the last boss and he starts
Speaker 15: there's this new mechanic again there. And I don't even
Speaker 15: think that mechanic is why you die, man. I think
Speaker 15: he just flatly hits you for a large damage. Did
Speaker 15: you check you r what happened to me on your
Speaker 15: chat lugs?
Speaker 2: No? I didn't.
Speaker 15: Yeah I didn't look either, But you got man handled
Speaker 15: every time. And no matter how many times I hit
Speaker 15: that heel button, I couldn't. I was falling behind, like say,
Speaker 15: ten percent every cast right, like I'd bring you back
Speaker 15: to ninety, bring you back to eighty, bringing back to seventy.
Speaker 15: So it was like watching the slow Predictable Death and
Speaker 15: Josh and knowing that, oh shit, we're gonna have to
Speaker 15: format this. So I'm dropping earthbind I'm popping frost shocks,
Speaker 15: We're doing everything we can to slow them. I'm kidiing
Speaker 15: because I have all the thread at that point, everybody
Speaker 15: else DPS isn't.
Speaker 6: Down and it was a blast.
Speaker 15: Like I that was the most fun I had. So
Speaker 15: I agree with MRK. My favorite part so far is dungeons,
Speaker 15: but I think it's based on the fact that I'm
Speaker 15: healing them and the stress level is higher.
Speaker 17: Had I been a DPS maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed
Speaker 17: them as much, and I would have enjoyed something more
Speaker 17: like going out into the open world and finding all
Speaker 17: the cool stuff.
Speaker 15: But I've really enjoyed trying to heal. We did w C,
Speaker 15: same thing, not on RFC's level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what's the deal. It's just the scaling with
Speaker 1: RFC being a bit weird and all the other dungeons
Speaker 1: are challenging but not at the same level.
Speaker 17: So like if we were to do because we've I've
Speaker 17: run three with you.
Speaker 15: I would put RFC one, I would put w C two,
Speaker 15: and I would put r f D three. And there's
Speaker 15: a clear distinction between the three interns of difficulty, right,
Speaker 15: Like RFC clearly, for some weird reason, being the lowest
Speaker 15: level dungeon of the game is the hardest.
Speaker 1: But then didn't you do a zolfarak that you fucking nightmare?
Speaker 17: Yeah, but that was suns.
Speaker 2: That was my tank.
Speaker 17: Oh yeah, sons that that tank.
Speaker 1: And let you to be fair, obviously a player who
Speaker 1: wasn't really a tank, right, he was not.
Speaker 15: He was just trying his best in there. He didn't
Speaker 15: know what he was getting into because it was day
Speaker 15: one and we were all trying out the new random
Speaker 15: dungeon finder, and he thought, yeah, I'm gonna take this
Speaker 15: because it's a pushover.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not, it's not.
Speaker 15: He he got so dejected he took about a ten
Speaker 15: minute AFK and then came back, tried once more, died again,
Speaker 15: and then just dropped.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just see that.
Speaker 1: So, like I think the story, would you agree? The
Speaker 1: story to take away from this is like, look, I
Speaker 1: don't want to make it sound like dungeons are fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But like, if you wanted a challenge and you want
Speaker 1: to actually really get involved in a dungeon, play tank
Speaker 1: or heels. Trust me. If you want a cruise, do
Speaker 1: the DPS thing. But like, if you're looking to chill
Speaker 1: and you know, smoke a bone and play some fucking
Speaker 1: wow classy and cruise through dungeons, do not heal or
Speaker 1: tank it.
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think I think that's a big part of
Speaker 17: it is the game lulls you into this kind of
Speaker 17: like someone was saying earlier, they feel like it's dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, and.
Speaker 15: So you're kind of predicting that when you go into
Speaker 15: the dungeon, it's going to be trash pull, trash pull,
Speaker 15: trash pool, smash, mash AoE, blow it up. And then
Speaker 15: you do it, and you're like, oh, no, this is
Speaker 15: a this is a big tonal change in terms of
Speaker 15: what I was doing out there and now what I'm
Speaker 15: having to do in here. And so the first time
Speaker 15: you do it, it catches you off guard. And yes,
Speaker 15: you experience that on a completely different.
Speaker 17: Level being a tank being a healer than you do
Speaker 17: just being a DPS.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I agree with you there.
Speaker 7: And don't forget we haven't even gotten to the Heroic
Speaker 7: and the Mythic Plus versions of these where at endgame
Speaker 7: these same dungeons are going to have added difficulties and
Speaker 7: even more mechanics on top of the new mechanics.
Speaker 1: There you go, you said the magic words. The listeners
Speaker 1: at home who have never heard of fucking Bronze by
Speaker 1: It until this podcast episode just heard you say fucking
Speaker 1: Mythic and Mythic Plus and they going, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Tell them what's coming?
Speaker 7: I mean, they they've it sounds like to keep things relevant.
Speaker 7: I mean I just saw the one trailer video. I
Speaker 7: haven't I haven't done much other than watched their thirty
Speaker 7: minute intro video, and.
Speaker 1: Everyone should watch that if you, if you really are
Speaker 1: on short It's well.
Speaker 7: Done for information and just the quality of it. It
Speaker 7: sounds like they've taken a spin on Retail's Mythic Plus
Speaker 7: system where you're gonna have affixes that you can add
Speaker 7: to these dungeons to kind of help with the endgame
Speaker 7: farm in what you need for endgame to keep to
Speaker 7: keep playing. You know, I actually broke into Ascension back
Speaker 7: when they first dropped their first like classless server. So
Speaker 7: I haven't played in a long time with with ascension,
Speaker 7: so it seems like they've got a very solid team
Speaker 7: of people working to come up with some of this.
Speaker 7: You know, all the mobs having new models and reworked,
Speaker 7: Like the amount of work that just goes into that,
Speaker 7: it's insane the work that they've done on this server,
Speaker 7: And hats off to them, even if it's not your
Speaker 7: cup of tea, They've they've done some great work with
Speaker 7: what they've actually put together for people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can choose classic models or like, I
Speaker 1: think it's the ward models, is that right?
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's it's the current like I think it's it's
Speaker 7: I think it's almost the full retail models at this point.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's it's models.
Speaker 5: It's the drainar models, is what it is. Right, That's
Speaker 5: when the initial that's when the initial first changeover to
Speaker 5: the HD models started. Gotcha.
Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, you can choose between that. So again,
Speaker 1: that's something that turns a lot of people off if
Speaker 1: they can't have their classic looks. But you can pick
Speaker 1: the classic looks if you want. You look, guys, this
Speaker 1: is a trans mogue heavy server, but you can turn
Speaker 1: it off if you don't want to see any of
Speaker 1: that shit as well.
Speaker 7: I've actually I like transmog and I've actually got it
Speaker 7: turned off because I want to see all the cool
Speaker 7: stuff that people are finding, Like everything looks there's a
Speaker 7: lot of cool things, Like I want to see what
Speaker 7: I'm finding, Like I'd normally like translog and I'll probably
Speaker 7: turn it on once I get to a point where
Speaker 7: I want to have a stagnant look. But it's pretty slick.
Speaker 9: They give premise saying that though I was running the
Speaker 9: Classic Models because I don't like the game to look like,
Speaker 9: you know, some kind of weird like cabin it from
Speaker 9: like a But it does allow for some weird visual
Speaker 9: bugs like I went to go sign the Gild charter
Speaker 9: and someone was surfing a wyburn. I can't remember who
Speaker 9: it was that I went to go sign it and
Speaker 9: they were like, I'm writing like this massive thing, and
Speaker 9: I'm like, yeah, well I've shared my screen. I'm like,
Speaker 9: you look like you're standing on top of a wibn. Like,
Speaker 9: it does allow for some very weird visual bugs if
Speaker 9: you decide not to dive deep into the whole kind
Speaker 9: of I want every model on the planet and make
Speaker 9: it look like, you know, funfair. Yeah, not my cup
Speaker 9: of tea.
Speaker 1: All right, now, guys, we haven't really talked a lot
Speaker 1: of people were wondering about the classes. So we've talked
Speaker 1: a bit about Tank Shaman obviously, tell me about the
Speaker 1: class you're playing and some of the crazy shit that
Speaker 1: you've already started noticing because there is Look, guys, this
Speaker 1: is again. We're going to get to a bit more
Speaker 1: chat about Epoch much later on, guys. So I know
Speaker 1: it's super weird for Countdown to be like Epoch, epop
Speaker 1: Epoch over the last six weeks and now we're literally
Speaker 1: here discussing a new server and a lot of you
Speaker 1: will have whiplash from like, wait, Josh, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: What's going on? Like I said, there's just there's now
Speaker 1: very clearly two options out there for you, guys. They
Speaker 1: are very different options. So we're just explaining this second
Speaker 1: one now that's just launched in the last twenty four hours. Look, uh,
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you guys what you've seen
Speaker 1: we did. Like for instance, for example, like I know
Speaker 1: that the hunter in our RC yesterday had an ability
Speaker 1: that like made Hunter's mark if you applied it and
Speaker 1: then when your next ability you used against a mob
Speaker 1: with hunters Mark applied to it over I think it
Speaker 1: was seventy five percent health. It's a guaranteed create and
Speaker 1: it's sort of batch so you can do like an
Speaker 1: auto shot and an arcane shot at the same time
Speaker 1: that both will guaranteed create on that high health mob
Speaker 1: with with hunters Mark applied. So he was tab targeting,
Speaker 1: applying Hunter's Mark all the time to all the high
Speaker 1: health mobs at the start of a pool and just
Speaker 1: getting quick create and the damage on I mean, a
Speaker 1: low level Hunter, as we always know, is great, but
Speaker 1: it was fucking insane, Like Tank Shaman's damage was insane.
Speaker 1: It's really really good, but the Hunter beat me out.
Speaker 1: You know what have you guys noticed with your classes
Speaker 1: and fun little runes or whatever. Who wants to go first? Yeah,
Speaker 1: go for it.
Speaker 7: I went four shell Undead Powadin. Surprise Retail hasn't actually
Speaker 7: brought this and shocked but you know, I'm playing rat
Speaker 7: because what's up.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked Retail hasn't done it too. It's really weird
Speaker 1: now at this point.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know what I like about it so far
Speaker 7: is there's Button having Crusader Strike right at the start
Speaker 7: just gives you that active button that you need as
Speaker 7: a Powadin, Like it's fantastic. It doesn't hit overly hard.
Speaker 7: It's like starts out at fifty percent of your weapon damage,
Speaker 7: so it's not like one shotting mobs. Your judgment's definitely
Speaker 7: the better the better damage option, but that's on the
Speaker 7: what ten second quot down to start, so it's not
Speaker 7: like you're just sitting there smashing through mobs. And I've
Speaker 7: definitely had some scary calls and some overpols, and I'm
Speaker 7: not just rolling through things like getting consecrations nice. I
Speaker 7: don't have too many mystic in chants. I just have
Speaker 7: the one you get level ten and the one you
Speaker 7: eat level fifteen, so I'm kind of limited as to
Speaker 7: what powers I've unlocked, and I haven't found whatever forge
Speaker 7: I need to put the fifteen on one, so I
Speaker 7: only have my increased create on Crusader Strike, just as
Speaker 7: all that was by three percent. So it's nothing game changing,
Speaker 7: but it just feels engaging so far as a Rep Powdin,
Speaker 7: I feel like I have to I have to do things.
Speaker 7: I'm not just AFK hero. Yeah, you know, waiting for
Speaker 7: my next auto attack and hoping a seal crits is
Speaker 7: just it's engaging. I'm interested to see how it how
Speaker 7: it feels as I unlock some more of these talents
Speaker 7: and what they reworked. I've never I've never played I mean,
Speaker 7: I've played Legion Rett. That's about my only ret experience
Speaker 7: where I've actually played it. So it's it's fun.
Speaker 1: Well, it's my one my one mind. I wouldn't call
Speaker 1: it a criticism as much as like one of my
Speaker 1: minor notes from Epoch and if you have us said
Speaker 1: this on the podcast going like I mean, we're having
Speaker 1: a great time, but if SOD has taught us anything,
Speaker 1: it's that it does feel really good when these classes
Speaker 1: get just that one or two extra buttons to press.
Speaker 1: And it was it was quite notable on Epoch that
Speaker 1: you still like the classes feel fantastic on Epoch, but
Speaker 1: like just that one extra button would make the world difference.
Speaker 1: And here maybe it's a bit gone too far the
Speaker 1: other way. I'm not sure, but like I mean, just
Speaker 1: in the early goings, like even on my Sharman, just
Speaker 1: like having the extra strike, like it feels really good
Speaker 1: just having a mild rotation on a class at the
Speaker 1: early goings, but then also knowing that like things are
Speaker 1: a bit more involved gameplay wise. I loved my Warlock
Speaker 1: on Epoch, but I was always kind of like, if
Speaker 1: I wasn't playing a Warlock, I feel like I'd be
Speaker 1: a little bit bored with some of these other classes.
Speaker 1: But on Bronze Beard everything seems to be quite engaging.
Speaker 1: Who else is enjoying their class?
Speaker 17: I've been enjoying. I've been enjoying it. Elie Sharman.
Speaker 15: When we did Epoch, I was excited because I could
Speaker 15: finally level Ellie and then off Heel Dunders or a
Speaker 15: Heel Dungeons without having change specs. And they introduced some
Speaker 15: really nice stuff into Epoch. They have an earthbind thing
Speaker 15: that helps you what avoid pushback when casting. They have
Speaker 15: one the get watershield really early. But still I found
Speaker 15: myself having to drink probably every three or four mobs regardless,
Speaker 15: and here I'm Ellie and I don't really have to
Speaker 15: stop to drink.
Speaker 17: And the thing too, like time to kill is really.
Speaker 15: Important right in Classic, because I think that's a big
Speaker 15: component of Classic, is time to kill.
Speaker 17: If you can kill three mobs in ten seconds, that
Speaker 17: feels Retail.
Speaker 15: I haven't played Retail in a while, so many times
Speaker 15: might mouth, but you kill a lot of mobs, you
Speaker 15: killing really fast over in Classic, there's a certain amount
Speaker 15: of time that passes, and here too, it does take
Speaker 15: you a very long time.
Speaker 17: Like when you said you were blasting in RSC because
Speaker 17: you were doing forty one dps, the Hunter was doing
Speaker 17: thirty eight dps, right, I mean you might remember the
Speaker 17: number is a bit better, but it's not like you
Speaker 17: were doing ninety dps.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, yeah. I think at the end of
Speaker 1: the run, at the end of the run, it was
Speaker 1: like the Tana did forty nine and I did forty four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like a million dps.
Speaker 15: Right, And that's what I think the difference for me
Speaker 15: with the first I mean, I'm talking about stud instead
Speaker 15: of Epoch, But the difference here is that you don't
Speaker 15: quite have that power.
Speaker 17: And that's kind of what ruins Tide for me was
Speaker 17: it just got to be a real pushover. So between
Speaker 17: the two Eparch and this one, there both have introduced
Speaker 17: some really great things to the class.
Speaker 6: I enjoyed my time playing.
Speaker 17: Ellie over on EPARCH, and I'm enjoying it here again.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's been a good.
Speaker 1: Time, good stuff.
Speaker 10: I thought it was pretty good as well, Like the
Speaker 10: Ela Sharmond felt pretty smooth. It's always a bit jarring
Speaker 10: when they remove the interrupt from your earthshock and they say, yeah,
Speaker 10: you're going to get an interrupt at level thirty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 10: Other than that, it's it's it was pretty smooth.
Speaker 1: I think you get it at fifteen winch here or something.
Speaker 10: Okay, So it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: I had it in RFA and it helped a lot.
Speaker 1: But the shitty thing is not that it really matters,
Speaker 1: but like because it doesn't have like a silence, so sorry,
Speaker 1: it does. It locks. It locks when you use wind here,
Speaker 1: it locks them out for two seconds. But I found
Speaker 1: in RFC and easy found the same thing. We're sitting
Speaker 1: there wind shearing like machine guns, but the cast is
Speaker 1: Titch is casting something else straight away. Like they wouldn't
Speaker 1: then run into the tank because they'd been interrupted. They
Speaker 1: were just going, well, fuck you, I'll just keep standing
Speaker 1: here like a turret and cast something else. It was
Speaker 1: a bit annoying, but yeah, who's played a different class
Speaker 1: outside of Paladin and shum And let me give you
Speaker 1: some first impressions are.
Speaker 10: There are there classes.
Speaker 5: Funny? Oh, I gotta say honestly, probably the I mean,
Speaker 5: the Mage obviously is going to be hit or biss
Speaker 5: at early stages. You know, the whole a Lei vibe
Speaker 5: is still there when it comes to frost. I haven't
Speaker 5: tried arcane yet, which is gonna happen here soon. The
Speaker 5: mystic in chance that we've got I've gotten so far
Speaker 5: are kind of hit or miss. I mean, I'm looking
Speaker 5: forward to a couple of them that are coming up,
Speaker 5: Like Epic Wanding Want Attacks grant you stacks that increase
Speaker 5: the cast speed of your next spell by five percent
Speaker 5: five percent stacks up to five times and lasts for
Speaker 5: six seconds. So that in itself is going to be
Speaker 5: pretty cool. Now to kind of help on the arcane front.
Speaker 5: Right now, I'm cruising with with Biting Frost, and that
Speaker 5: one's killing an enemy with frost damage causes your next
Speaker 5: spell that can trigger frost bite to have one hundred
Speaker 5: percent chance to trigger it, which is nice when you're
Speaker 5: single targeting. You know, over time, the Mage, you know,
Speaker 5: did develop that whole AOI aspect, And now I'm gonna
Speaker 5: work with a build that's going to be more of
Speaker 5: a single target for v B and see how that's
Speaker 5: gonna go. Well, all, I like it all right? Anyone
Speaker 5: else there is, well, there's real quick. There is a
Speaker 5: legendary mystican chant that I will get later on that
Speaker 5: will allow me to have a whoppling too, So instead
Speaker 5: of just having the water element, all, I can also
Speaker 5: have a whoppling as a pet.
Speaker 1: So very good, Antie, what are you playing?
Speaker 9: I played a paladin and I can tell you right
Speaker 9: now I will not be going back to for any reason.
Speaker 1: Right, that's right. You've you've You've had it. You've seen enough.
Speaker 9: I've seen enough. I don't like it. It's not for
Speaker 9: me fair enough.
Speaker 6: It was a lot of vanilla.
Speaker 9: It doesn't scratch the nostalgia that I was always hunting for.
Speaker 9: This does.
Speaker 6: No, I can't do it fair enough.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll come back to that. I don't want to feel.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to the epoch part eventually, trust me.
Speaker 1: Voodoo are you there, matey? He's busy eating macas for
Speaker 1: breakfast and having a coffee. That's all right. Wonder are
Speaker 1: you there?
Speaker 5: I here made of you?
Speaker 1: What level do you get up to?
Speaker 16: Nineteen? On my und Oh?
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: You tried the Hunter? What the fuck? What have you
Speaker 1: done with wonder?
Speaker 16: I don't know. It's play a lot of druids, So
Speaker 16: try and do something different.
Speaker 1: For changing probably his time.
Speaker 16: I kind of in Mop. I played Marcane magin Mop
Speaker 16: and force myself to do something different.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, you sound half asleep and it fucking spewing
Speaker 1: that I've called on you.
Speaker 16: Just early morning. Voice hasn't hasn't been warmed up yet.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, we'll give us the two second account of Hunter.
Speaker 1: Do you like it?
Speaker 16: Hunter feels as strong early game as it's always been.
Speaker 2: I feel like.
Speaker 16: I guess the end of Caviot is the comments you're
Speaker 16: making about the ruin or the whatever the fuck it's
Speaker 16: supposed to be called. I don't think is the good
Speaker 16: version of the same the mystic in Chat. I'm running
Speaker 16: a different one which buffs the pet, increasing special ability
Speaker 16: by ten percent when Hunter's marks on the target, and
Speaker 16: then after you kill a target, the pet creates twice
Speaker 16: and it doesn't cost any focus. That feels very strong
Speaker 16: to me. But yeah, other than that, it's not too
Speaker 16: much to say about Hunter. It feels pretty comfortable.
Speaker 1: Okay, Sinner, did you try it out Sinner's afk, that's
Speaker 1: all right, who's tried a different class. Let's see here,
Speaker 1: green are you playing?
Speaker 17: I tried a shaman over there, but I only got
Speaker 17: to about level or five, and I was like, I'm good, all.
Speaker 1: Right, fair enough, fair enough. Well maybe look, maybe it
Speaker 1: is time let's do the part of the conversation now
Speaker 1: that turns more towards Epoch, because it sounds like we've
Speaker 1: got a few of you here now that have tried
Speaker 1: Bronze Beard and played it for three seconds and just said,
Speaker 1: fuck this, this is fucking no good. And there's like
Speaker 1: I said, I can't stress this enough. There is nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that take. Because this is such a divisive
Speaker 1: server in terms of it will split people. There will
Speaker 1: be so I truly believe that people like me who
Speaker 1: are like I like both will be so few and
Speaker 1: far between. This is this is like you really will
Speaker 1: be all in on Epoch for that more like you
Speaker 1: know classic e vibe. You know it's not Anniversary, but
Speaker 1: it's not anywhere near as far as Bronze Beard goes
Speaker 1: versus the people who are all in on Bronze Beard,
Speaker 1: and like, now Epoch's too slow. This is fucking my
Speaker 1: jam let's rock and roll and blast fucking dungeons and
Speaker 1: all that shit. So I'll reach out to you Epoch
Speaker 1: guys here and say, tell me more about what you
Speaker 1: saw on Bronze Beard that had you so quickly decide
Speaker 1: that it wasn't for you, and that Epoch does better.
Speaker 9: I mean, I've said it once before. When I went
Speaker 9: to go join Turtle Wow, I was enjoying it. I
Speaker 9: got to level thirteen fourteen, I went to Stormwind and
Speaker 9: there was a maid flying around on a cloud with
Speaker 9: a smiling face. And I went and then I heard
Speaker 9: about Epoch and I left and never went back, the
Speaker 9: exact same thing. I literally was like, this is just
Speaker 9: there's just too much going on, Like I'm just being
Speaker 9: spammed with things I can train my skills by the
Speaker 9: book that's flying behind me. I am just being I've
Speaker 9: got my mount and I'm level six, Like why I've
Speaker 9: got more bags and I know what to do with
Speaker 9: on the planet and my bags and now better than
Speaker 9: my level forty nine, which me ten gold on the
Speaker 9: auction house. I'm level six and I have two gold?
Speaker 9: Why do I have two gold? What is the money
Speaker 9: going to be like at sixty when I've got eighty
Speaker 9: trillion gold. If I've already got two at level six,
Speaker 9: it's just too much going on.
Speaker 13: Sorry, I'm back.
Speaker 18: I don't understand what the people who don't like it.
Speaker 18: I don't understand what you're looking for. You're looking just
Speaker 18: but you're looking for just a classic. You just want
Speaker 18: classic again.
Speaker 1: No, No, I think epoch is I want is different
Speaker 1: enough from classic to be able to under my opinion.
Speaker 18: I'm a classic andy, right, I love classic. I hate retail,
Speaker 18: but I'm not looking for another classic either.
Speaker 20: And I think like and I don't.
Speaker 18: I'm not putting anybody down, but to be turned off
Speaker 18: by just seeing someone on a mount with a smiley cloud,
Speaker 18: I think it's a bit much like it seems like
Speaker 18: the tiniest little thing is going to send you away
Speaker 18: from any other game. So what is it that you're
Speaker 18: actually looking for?
Speaker 9: I think I basically want and then TVs.
Speaker 10: Oh sorry, yeah, I was just gonna say. I think
Speaker 10: there's a fair middle ground between the two. Like I'm
Speaker 10: not married to the to the mount at forty, Like
Speaker 10: I'm fine with amount of twenty five and a man
Speaker 10: could cost half the volte the talents could be different.
Speaker 10: I'm also okay with the weapon skill being removed from
Speaker 10: the game, Like, that's not a huge thing for me,
Speaker 10: but it's also yeah, like for example that I think
Speaker 10: I mentioned already, like what's the what's the point of
Speaker 10: having item upgrades where within six levels I changed my
Speaker 10: main hand item five times, each time with a different
Speaker 10: green item. It feels like nothing has any meaning because
Speaker 10: you switch it out so quickly.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 5: There there is something though, too, a lot that goes
Speaker 5: along with those word forged items. You can upgrade those
Speaker 5: world forged items. Okay, not every single piece of gear
Speaker 5: out there is going to be I think they're trying
Speaker 5: to be more diverse. They're trying to give more you know,
Speaker 5: trans mog options and stuff like that. But yeah, it
Speaker 5: is a little bloated when it comes to that kind
Speaker 5: of stuff. But I think it was more added for
Speaker 5: the exploration style player, right, more options out there for
Speaker 5: the hardcore style players to you know, have something more
Speaker 5: to look forward to other than something they killed just
Speaker 5: off of a mob. But I mean we were all
Speaker 5: kind of talking earlier, A few of us were talking earlier,
Speaker 5: and everybody's I really think Easy said it best. I mean,
Speaker 5: everybody's going to have their own take on what their
Speaker 5: personal classic plus is. I personally feel that if Blizard
Speaker 5: does come out with a classic plus, I think it's
Speaker 5: going to be more retail is. I think there's gonna
Speaker 5: be a lot of disappointed people. For me, Epoch has
Speaker 5: been great. I love it. It's a good classic feel,
Speaker 5: it's a good classic vibe. It is refreshing to have that.
Speaker 5: But I also enjoy playing something on a different scale
Speaker 5: that's not retail, that kind of has that retail vibe,
Speaker 5: but it's set in Azrath, right. I mean, we can
Speaker 5: all agree that some of the mounts and stuff are
Speaker 5: a little insane, but to allow that to deter you
Speaker 5: away from checking out the whole aspect of the game
Speaker 5: and what they've actually created, and to not actually dive
Speaker 5: into the game and take a good hard look past
Speaker 5: level five or level six, it's not doing anything to justice.
Speaker 5: But same time, to each their own, I mean, we're
Speaker 5: all going to have our own opinion on what we like.
Speaker 5: So I think another thing too is ah Epoch is
Speaker 5: very glitchy, and I don't know, we don't know how
Speaker 5: long it's going to be until they figure that out.
Speaker 5: And with that being said, also to me, Epoch isn't
Speaker 5: Classic Plus. It's Classic expanded. You know, that's virtually it.
Speaker 5: It's just new Quest hubs. What's the difference A lot.
Speaker 10: Different Classic Classic Plus and Classic Enhanced or what you're called.
Speaker 5: It a lot? I mean Classic Plus is in addition
Speaker 5: to okay, like the they races from uh TVC, the
Speaker 5: Mystic enchantments, the way the world forged items, the blood
Speaker 5: forged items you get from PvP, the new dungeons, the
Speaker 5: new raids that they're talking about, all this stuff that's
Speaker 5: all classic. That to me, that's Classic Plus. Now Classic
Speaker 5: Extended or Classic Expanded would essentially just be a few
Speaker 5: new Quest hubs running the TBC talents, and that's virtually
Speaker 5: all we got. I mean we got a few. We
Speaker 5: got one or two new dungeons, three two new dungeons,
Speaker 5: and then a couple of rework mechanics. That's virtually it.
Speaker 9: Right, comparing apples and oranges. I hate to say it because,
Speaker 9: like bronzeby clearly huge amount of development time that has
Speaker 9: gone into it. It is a very polished, clean product.
Speaker 9: Epoch was released by by peer pressure that we want
Speaker 9: it now, we want it now. It's an unfinished product.
Speaker 9: The dev team who we're doing it is now clearly
Speaker 9: no longer doing it or anything like that. We haven't
Speaker 9: actually seen what their vision of PLUS really was. We've
Speaker 9: got like a taster only a couple of reworked dungeons,
Speaker 9: really cool, extra little dungeon two of them in there,
Speaker 9: pretty cool. But we haven't actually actually seen what their
Speaker 9: PLUS vision is. We've given been given, like you know,
Speaker 9: an appetizer, and we're just like, well, we're waiting for
Speaker 9: the main meal because the main meal is still coming.
Speaker 9: Some of that dead work clearly Ascension has will they
Speaker 9: release it hopefully and maybe when we'll be able to
Speaker 9: compare the two products together. Right now we've got to sixty.
Speaker 9: If it's pretty much the same. We've got a few
Speaker 9: little things that we were like, oh we like this,
Speaker 9: we want more of it. But when will the more come?
Speaker 18: Let's see, that's the issue people. I'm sitting at sixty
Speaker 18: feeling the same way it did in Classic.
Speaker 20: Board.
Speaker 18: So just to sit here and wait for MCS not
Speaker 18: cup of tea.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Epoch now. Like in terms of look,
Speaker 1: Bronze Beeared coming along is a obvious hit in the nuts.
Speaker 1: For Epoch, I have been a huge proponent proponent of Epoch,
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. Obviously, with everything that's been
Speaker 1: having on the show lately, I still love Epoch and
Speaker 1: I'm still planning to raid on Epoch.
Speaker 5: Like I.
Speaker 1: Epoch scratches an itch for me that I enjoy, like
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's an itch. I like being scratched.
Speaker 1: The problem now is something that's outside of my control.
Speaker 1: Is people prior to Bronzebeard's release, and only exacerbated by
Speaker 1: Bronzebeard's release, the population is dropping off, notably on Epoch,
Speaker 1: and it's been frustrating. It's been particularly hard. Not not
Speaker 1: that this is really a big factor and nor something
Speaker 1: that should be, you know, worried about that much, but
Speaker 1: it's been particularly hard at oceanic times, like for prime
Speaker 1: time for US. There's just fucking no one online now
Speaker 1: and I can't get Beg's and I can't you know,
Speaker 1: if I wanted to do Dungeons, it would be a
Speaker 1: bit of a struggle. It's just that five PM to
Speaker 1: ten PM time zone in Oceany primetime for US is
Speaker 1: obviously very early hours of the morning for Europe and
Speaker 1: North America. And that's fine when the server was much
Speaker 1: much larger. It wasn't an issue because, like we said,
Speaker 1: it was a twenty four to seven server, that's great.
Speaker 1: But as that population starts to dwindle, well, now it's
Speaker 1: not a twenty seventh server, and the oceanic community is very,
Speaker 1: very small, and people are walking away under the night
Speaker 1: owls from Europe and North America now aren't there anymore,
Speaker 1: and it's just like tough for us. So I could
Speaker 1: still play during the day and that's fine, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's still going to BG's. It's sixty on my warlock
Speaker 1: and having a good time when I'm in there, but
Speaker 1: it's still all sixty six is and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: when are the other sixties getting here? Like I realized that,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm still sixty and got their early and
Speaker 1: I'm waiting on the bulk of the crowd to arrive
Speaker 1: there with me. But it is weird doing constant wars
Speaker 1: on Gulch after wars on Golch in a six B
Speaker 1: six or a seven B seven. Still have fun, don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, but sort of just wondering when everyone's coming.
Speaker 1: But the problem is that the overall population of Epoch
Speaker 1: has started to notably by all reports, apparently if you
Speaker 1: go by what random redditors say, people do post a
Speaker 1: sensor starter and it seems to be going down and
Speaker 1: down and down and down. And I'm I'm I said
Speaker 1: last week on the show, like I'm not declaring a
Speaker 1: fucking dead server or anything. I think there's still a
Speaker 1: die hard Epoch crowd that are really ready, willing and
Speaker 1: able to see the raid content, and they're farming their
Speaker 1: previous There are still people out there leveling, and that's good.
Speaker 1: I've said to all the Countdown people, don't feel bad
Speaker 1: for continuing two level if you like this game, Countdown, like,
Speaker 1: I have no doubt where as soon as they fucking
Speaker 1: announce that there's raid content coming, we have a raid team,
Speaker 1: we have like you know, probably third thirty sixties more
Speaker 1: in the pipeline, like we will be able to do rate.
Speaker 1: I want to see the raid content on Epoch because
Speaker 1: I'm really intrigued with how they've done it, considering how
Speaker 1: good their dungeon content was. But yes, it is sort
Speaker 1: of hard to deny now that as I say, it's
Speaker 1: outside of our control, but the overall population is dipping
Speaker 1: and it's been a really big shame. It's broken my
Speaker 1: heart little bit because I think it's such a great server,
Speaker 1: and look, there are reasons behind it that are understandable.
Speaker 1: Like I said, the lack of a roadmap last week,
Speaker 1: I said, people are going to start.
Speaker 6: To get very very itchy.
Speaker 1: As Vestige is saying the current Kazan pop right now
Speaker 1: online thirteen forty four. That's still like that. That's fine,
Speaker 1: private server. I think the issue is Vestige. That was
Speaker 1: that number twenty three forty four ten days ago? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would venture to say something along
Speaker 1: those lines, like I feel like we've gone down one
Speaker 1: hundred or two hundred like every day over the last
Speaker 1: ten to fourteen days. I don't know, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to making it. Sorry, go for.
Speaker 6: It, OULD say, I'm not making a comment on anything.
Speaker 6: I was just saying what was just given a fact?
Speaker 5: Right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, but I'd love to know your take
Speaker 1: on it. When you see thirteen forty four online right
Speaker 1: now on this date in on Kazan, how does that
Speaker 1: make you feel?
Speaker 5: Do you?
Speaker 1: What do you feel about that number?
Speaker 6: Not great?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I think I saw lost. I've seen it was like
Speaker 6: eleven hundred the other day This morning though, when I
Speaker 6: woke up, it was about seventeen hundred, So it seems
Speaker 6: like it's fluctuating somewhere in the middle there, Right, not
Speaker 6: a great feeling, is it is?
Speaker 1: Is Yak right? I'm a little I would have gone
Speaker 1: halfway between Yak's answer and something else. Yak is saying
Speaker 1: that BB probably cut that number in half. I would
Speaker 1: have thought that number prior to BB's release was around
Speaker 1: like seventeen eighteen hundred, But I don't know.
Speaker 6: I think it was a round two k. It was low, okay,
Speaker 6: like about twenty eighteen hundred roughly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it was too obviously.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, obviously people are playing Bronze Spirit this weekend,
Speaker 6: trying it down stuff.
Speaker 2: Yah.
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: You can't really put his weekend's numbers into account. But
Speaker 6: I mean, somebody who's jumping on to say, hey, I
Speaker 6: want to go find a dungeon for something like this,
Speaker 6: maybe wait in a while, and people don't like to wait.
Speaker 6: They want to get in there, find something, do the stuff.
Speaker 6: They don't want to sit around for thirty minutes spamming
Speaker 6: looking for group.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's no doubt that Bronzeby's release. He's a massive,
Speaker 1: like you know, hamstringing of Apolk to say the fucking least,
Speaker 1: don't you think it's good?
Speaker 7: Can I add something to this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Please? Please?
Speaker 7: Does anyone did anyone play a wild Star back on
Speaker 7: its original on an inception? Because oh yeah, that was
Speaker 7: a long time ago, but yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm
Speaker 7: seeing a very direct compared and you know, wild Star launched,
Speaker 7: it was buggy, it was rushed, It was a great game.
Speaker 7: It filled that classic difficulty, new stuff to do, different
Speaker 7: combat system. But what they do. They tried to beat
Speaker 7: the release of WAD and in doing so, they shot
Speaker 7: themselves on the foot because they put out an unfinished game.
Speaker 7: They tarnished what they had tried to develop, and it
Speaker 7: just never it just never got past that. And that's
Speaker 7: kind of like I haven't been following either of these servers.
Speaker 7: I kind of just caught up to it the other
Speaker 7: day when I saw the hype and countdown and going on,
Speaker 7: I was like, what the heck's going on? But it
Speaker 7: kind of feels similar to that. It sounds like EPOK
Speaker 7: got kind of pressured by its audience to release something
Speaker 7: that wasn't quite ready. You know, if you want classic plus,
Speaker 7: there better be something plus at the end for people
Speaker 7: to do, and it doesn't sound like it's there, And
Speaker 7: it's one of those things where it's gonna be hard
Speaker 7: to recover if the people that got there or that
Speaker 7: are playing or are like, wow, this is a much
Speaker 7: more polished game. It might not be exactly what I want,
Speaker 7: but there's stuff to do, there's things to find, and
Speaker 7: it's going to be a hard, uphill battle even if
Speaker 7: most people want Epoch to be be their jam, Like,
Speaker 7: I don't know if you're going to get the numbers
Speaker 7: now that you have this server on its heels, it's
Speaker 7: it's tough.
Speaker 9: The bal to kind of catch you up. Basically, what
Speaker 9: happened is Epoch got released, Lizard came along, slapped the
Speaker 9: lawsuit on all the people that were developing Epoch, and
Speaker 9: now it's basically stuck in the water. So that's like
Speaker 9: we probably some stuff probably would have been released if
Speaker 9: the deads were not you know, as.
Speaker 1: As someone posted, as someone posted on the Epoch subreddit yesterday,
Speaker 1: and it's true, like when you just sit down and
Speaker 1: journal and timeline Epochs life cycle. Right now, it is
Speaker 1: a wild story. It is a wild, wild server in
Speaker 1: terms of like the years of development that the you know,
Speaker 1: the server management not being up for obviously being taken
Speaker 1: aback by the amount of interest that came up at
Speaker 1: the last second, swamped at the release, bought by Ascension,
Speaker 1: cease and desist letters sent out, you know, Ascension not
Speaker 1: exactly treating it with the the you know, fucking maybe
Speaker 1: attention that we feel it deserves, and it being in
Speaker 1: a we really weird space. Now it's a it's a
Speaker 1: wild story in private server fucking law.
Speaker 9: That's a bit of a weird one. Like what do
Speaker 9: you even do? What do Ascension do that? Like they've
Speaker 9: bought this thing, There's clearly an interest, there's clearly people
Speaker 9: still playing, there's people that are donating money to them,
Speaker 9: Like I have donated multiple times, even though I've not
Speaker 9: bought anything from the shop because I don't want anything
Speaker 9: in the game. But they've now got a product that
Speaker 9: they're developing that is literally its direct competitor. So what
Speaker 9: do they do with that?
Speaker 20: Well, that's so they have to do anything their competition.
Speaker 1: Well that's it. Well, let's let's talk about it, lads,
Speaker 1: because like I said to you guys a few days ago,
Speaker 1: you know, I said on the podcast that oh, there's
Speaker 1: no way Ascension paid money for Epoch to sentence it
Speaker 1: to death. But I said that in the assumption that
Speaker 1: Ascension paid a decent amount of money for it. I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 1: if they shelled out, you know, fucking really good compensation
Speaker 1: to k Toats for this server, Like, why would they
Speaker 1: pay all that money just to fucking shelve it. But
Speaker 1: one of you guys, you know, raised the very simple
Speaker 1: counterpoint to that that I hadn't even considered because I'm
Speaker 1: a fucking idiot, And You're like, what if they didn't
Speaker 1: pay that much money for it? What if they threw
Speaker 1: a figure out that k Toots just took as a
Speaker 1: lifeline as this salvage of something as the sheep was
Speaker 1: going down, and they it cost them next to nothing,
Speaker 1: and they just bought their competitor, and now they can
Speaker 1: sink it because they did no fucking skin off their back.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, fuck that that is a possibility. That's
Speaker 1: relatively plausible as well.
Speaker 5: The deal could have.
Speaker 6: Just been for.
Speaker 1: So are you going to say it they thought they sorry,
Speaker 1: what was that someone was going to say something? Just
Speaker 1: then go for it? No?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was saying the deal could have just have been, hey,
Speaker 6: we'll get a cut of future cash Shop revenue from
Speaker 6: the Epoch server for hosting it and doing that stuff.
Speaker 6: That could have been the deal, which means they didn't
Speaker 6: pay anything. Maybe they're going to cut a future revenue
Speaker 6: maybe so they may just tell me everything they put
Speaker 6: into at this point is there's sunk cost, and they
Speaker 6: could just say, you know what, it's not gonna you know,
Speaker 6: hold the money, make the money we want, and walk away.
Speaker 6: They'd be terrible if they did, but they could absolutely
Speaker 6: do that because appears nobody else is going to stop them.
Speaker 18: I think that's what most people are worried about too,
Speaker 18: is that like now that Epoch devs are gone, that
Speaker 18: Epoch is just going to sit there and delay.
Speaker 20: Everyone's going to go to me few a Bronze Beard
Speaker 20: or whatever it is now.
Speaker 13: So I think.
Speaker 19: Turtle like they're more like for me for for me.
Speaker 19: For example, I've got nothing against Bronze Beard. I think
Speaker 19: it it looks, it looks fine. It's just paid a
Speaker 19: win and I'm never going to touch it with the
Speaker 19: cash Shop, But like the actual gameplay and the like,
Speaker 19: the product looks like it's a high quality product. But
Speaker 19: I'm never going to play it. If Epoch you know,
Speaker 19: goes up in smoke, I'm going to turtle.
Speaker 13: I'm not going to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a viable turtle sitting right there.
Speaker 19: The server was Dwindlane before. Let's not pretend that like
Speaker 19: Bronze Beard is killing Epochs. Population has been going on
Speaker 19: every week because there's no red content, and it's that's
Speaker 19: why it's not like a detraction from Epok's just there's nothing.
Speaker 19: You know, you get the sexty and you can do
Speaker 19: your pre best. For some people like doing their pre
Speaker 19: best grinds. Some people like can't be asked because like
Speaker 19: there's no red contact. So why I'm going to read content?
Speaker 19: So why am I going to grind dungeons other them
Speaker 19: once or twice to see the content, enjoy myself, get
Speaker 19: the sexy, see other dungeons. Cool, had fun. I'm done,
Speaker 19: and you know, play something else. But I think as
Speaker 19: soon as I don't think Bronsburg is what is killing
Speaker 19: or is going to kill eat Park, that's gonna be
Speaker 19: whether or.
Speaker 18: Not it's definitely not the reason. But I think if
Speaker 18: everyone looks at this as like we all enjoy playing, well,
Speaker 18: it doesn't matter what version like it? Where's fun in
Speaker 18: most versions, but pay to win or not, this is
Speaker 18: just a waiting room. Like if everyone's having fun with it,
Speaker 18: why don't we all just jump on together and have
Speaker 18: a bit of fun, enjoy it, and then when Blizzard
Speaker 18: actually pull their finger out, obviously, that's where everyone's gonna
Speaker 18: be going.
Speaker 20: Well that that's sort of a lifelong server for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of been mine attitude as well is
Speaker 1: and this is this is a difference between player attitudes.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, I the epitome of dicking around on
Speaker 1: this server. And like, don't get me wrong, my quote
Speaker 1: unquote dicking around that might equate to a thousand fucking
Speaker 1: hours I don't know, But I'm not taking this server
Speaker 1: too seriously, so I'm not choosing to get overly offended
Speaker 1: by stuff that. Like we said, if Blizzard did it,
Speaker 1: I'd lose my shit. If Blizzard had this shop, I'd
Speaker 1: be going like you fucking crazy cunts, Like I'm out
Speaker 1: of here, what are you doing? But because it's like
Speaker 1: a whack, I don't know, I can't explain this and
Speaker 1: I probably wind up sounding the fuck with myself. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, because it's a whackadoo private server made by
Speaker 1: fucking you know, the craziest people out there who funnel
Speaker 1: all their money off into fucking Russian shell accounts and
Speaker 1: do all this weird shit. And you know, I just
Speaker 1: sort of I just I just find myself just entering
Speaker 1: the world and mucking around in it very lightheartedly. Like
Speaker 1: I just don't like when I see the guy. I
Speaker 1: posted a couple of pictures of the more obnoxious mounts
Speaker 1: that I saw on day one standing next to me
Speaker 1: in Razor Hill and stuff, and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: look at this one. But I'm not I'm not doing
Speaker 1: that to be like loll this game is fucked. Imagine
Speaker 1: these cunts riding around like this. This is so stupid.
Speaker 1: I'm more just like, wow, this is weird, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But like, but I don't care. I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not like getting angry over it. But it
Speaker 1: is just an odd contrast between this and what we
Speaker 1: just went through with Epoch. But like I understand the
Speaker 1: player like Laz like Yak, who are fucking smart guys.
Speaker 1: They know what they like, they know what they don't like,
Speaker 1: and they've if you're going to hold to your your
Speaker 1: morals in terms of gaming, Like this is a line
Speaker 1: I don't cross in the sand. I totally get that
Speaker 1: that that's fine, but like that's that's the decision they've
Speaker 1: made to stand firm on that principle, whereas you'd be
Speaker 1: more than fine to call me a fuck with for
Speaker 1: wandering away. I share those same principles, but I'm wandering
Speaker 1: away from them in this moment on a server that
Speaker 1: I don't deem to be that serious. If that makes sense,
Speaker 1: you guys could say that's still hypocritical of me. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, is this is this resonating with anyone?
Speaker 20: Yeah, yeah, Josh, I don't think it's principle.
Speaker 13: It's just a preference. I don't. I don't view it
Speaker 13: as like by pencil.
Speaker 20: I don't count preference if you haven't played it. That's
Speaker 20: that's what I don't understand.
Speaker 13: I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't think ye.
Speaker 20: I don't think you might have fun here.
Speaker 1: No, I think I think you can still read about
Speaker 1: it on paper, and.
Speaker 13: As I said, it looks like a high quality product.
Speaker 13: But I don't. I don't play pay to win games.
Speaker 7: Can I can? I ask? What about what about pay
Speaker 7: to win ruins your game? Experience if you're playing with
Speaker 7: your buddies and you're doing the content you want, like,
Speaker 7: what what what about it? Because I've been like I said,
Speaker 7: I was playing gild Wars two for about last two
Speaker 7: months and I am twelve years behind. I had never
Speaker 7: played it before, and how far along people were that
Speaker 7: they run only on a cash shop because there's no
Speaker 7: sub fee, Like none of what people had ruined my
Speaker 7: experience because the game itself is fun and good. I
Speaker 7: don't understand why because someone can buy something in a
Speaker 7: in a cash shop, it ruins how you enjoy a
Speaker 7: game if you're not, I mean, unless they're buying arena
Speaker 7: wins because you want to be a top per.
Speaker 20: I share that. I share that thought as well.
Speaker 18: And I think if, as I was saying to guys yesterday,
Speaker 18: if you can buy something that is more powerful at
Speaker 18: the end of the day to make your character more
Speaker 18: powerful than anybody that to me is paid to win,
Speaker 18: I just want to say to get to that point quicker,
Speaker 18: just before you.
Speaker 1: Die Las Last Last Last's Best Vestige, I want you,
Speaker 1: guys to tee off lads and vestige you go nuts here.
Speaker 1: I just want to say this one quick thing before
Speaker 1: you do. Just as a note, I just have to say,
Speaker 1: I'm just getting like flashbacks now to you know, this
Speaker 1: is almost evolving in not to This is turning into
Speaker 1: the conversation about sorry about my rumor. You know, when
Speaker 1: we talked about gold buying in classic and you get
Speaker 1: people saying things like, oh, but the bots drive down
Speaker 1: the prices like maybe, and you out of nowhere like
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd heart I would hear a defense
Speaker 1: of bots argument. But the community, some members of the
Speaker 1: community started to make it going, actually, maybe bodding is
Speaker 1: a good thing, and people are like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And now we're here. You know, a community that for
Speaker 1: fucking years and years and years has generally railed against
Speaker 1: pay to win and the concept of pay to win
Speaker 1: and MMOs. Now we have that moment of a couple
Speaker 1: of people, not a couple, but a small portion of
Speaker 1: the community going like, well, I'll make the argument for
Speaker 1: pay to win. It's bonkers to me, but I'm just
Speaker 1: highlighting that out to like, because there will be people
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast going like, oh, fucking countdown to
Speaker 1: class is pro paid a win?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Is this how far we've come?
Speaker 13: No?
Speaker 1: No, no, I just remember this is different opinions, and
Speaker 1: you know what he is now going to turn into
Speaker 1: two different sides talking about this. Having said that, now,
Speaker 1: lads and Vestage, let me throw it to you guys.
Speaker 1: You go nuts.
Speaker 19: Yeah, I don't really feel like responding. I'll get back
Speaker 19: to what you said, Josh and building your point. I
Speaker 19: don't think bron like Bronsberg, is like killing Epoch or anything.
Speaker 19: I think the people who are playing it good for them.
Speaker 13: I don't.
Speaker 19: I'm not like, oh, I wish they would stay here, like,
Speaker 19: go play what you like, and you know, if I'm
Speaker 19: sure a lot of those pet players will come back
Speaker 19: when if ray content is announced, and I'll stay on
Speaker 19: here still having fun, and as soon as they announced
Speaker 19: ray content, people will be back. So it's not like
Speaker 19: I just don't people who are upset that, you know,
Speaker 19: brons Bear launched. I'm not sure if anyone is, but
Speaker 19: I just think that it's it's kind of just natural.
Speaker 13: There's not a lot of content.
Speaker 19: Everyone's gone through it already, and if you're leveling having fun,
Speaker 19: keep doing it. If you want to trop brons beear,
Speaker 19: go for it looks like a high quality product. I'm
Speaker 19: not going to do.
Speaker 1: It, but okay, wait, Costa, because I want to say
Speaker 1: something as well, Vestig, we're going to say something going
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 6: What is the most powerful thing you can buy in
Speaker 6: an mm O. It's not a weapon, it's not gear.
Speaker 6: It's time. With a pay to win, you are buying time,
Speaker 6: whether it's up in your professions, increasing leveling speed, doing
Speaker 6: doing things that help you get to the end faster.
Speaker 6: And that created imbalance in an mm O that I
Speaker 6: just do not like, I do not enjoy. I don't
Speaker 6: think it's fair what I.
Speaker 18: Win with others don't see that is to win.
Speaker 5: But there's also here's here's the thing. Here's here's the
Speaker 5: thing though too. You can turn it off. You don't
Speaker 5: have to.
Speaker 6: I can't turn off other peo people.
Speaker 5: How does that affect you?
Speaker 6: The world affects me?
Speaker 7: What are you?
Speaker 8: They can they can get ourcane crystals and they can
Speaker 8: get black lotuses and like all this ship way faster
Speaker 8: than you and sell them for a way higher than
Speaker 8: they'll ever be ever again because they get them on
Speaker 8: day one, day two and day three, Like, how is that?
Speaker 5: Like not a parent But there's not.
Speaker 6: A single player game. You're playing with other people. You
Speaker 6: interact with other people you interact with economy, you interact
Speaker 6: with everything, and I can't control other people the way
Speaker 6: they play.
Speaker 1: Let me, let me, let me summarize it. Soooo, let
Speaker 1: me because I'm going to incorporate you into this.
Speaker 20: We're not actually into the.
Speaker 1: No, no, we are because this was a big thing
Speaker 1: in the discord through the week, and we need to
Speaker 1: touch it on the podcast because a lot of Countdown
Speaker 1: people were discussing this and going back and forth on
Speaker 1: how do you deem pay to win and what constitutes
Speaker 1: pay to win to you because a lot of people do,
Speaker 1: oddly to me, seem to have different definitions of it.
Speaker 1: And you know, Voodoo, you hunk, and Marcus and I
Speaker 1: got together for a beer and dinner the other night
Speaker 1: and we you know, started off the night with talking
Speaker 1: about this, and you and I had a back and
Speaker 1: forth and you know, we fucking just you know, friendly
Speaker 1: over beers, and I thought, I thought, yeah, you hate me.
Speaker 1: I thought I convinced you. But you're still now raising
Speaker 1: the original argument that I thought I talked you away
Speaker 1: from over that beer. But I'll just say again, like,
Speaker 1: there are a large amount of people out there, and
Speaker 1: I do you know, I'm not having a big dig
Speaker 1: but I find it hard not to refer to it
Speaker 1: as mental gymnastics. So there's a lot of people out
Speaker 1: there that do do the mental gymnastics of stretching away
Speaker 1: from pay to win, and they define it as there's
Speaker 1: two camps. Can I buy a weapon, a kick ass
Speaker 1: weapon with cash and the flow chart goes yes, no,
Speaker 1: Yes equals pay to win, no equals not pay to win.
Speaker 1: That's one camp. Then there's the other camp that's like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: like paying for like we just said, paying for time
Speaker 1: or economic advantage or really any advantage. Is what is
Speaker 1: paid to win in an MMO. It's not just constituted
Speaker 1: by buying your you know, fucking arkanight reaper or whatever
Speaker 1: fucking kick ass weapon you want. There's more to an
Speaker 1: MMO than that, and that's what constitutes pay to win.
Speaker 1: And those two differing arguments are now conflicting quite a bit,
Speaker 1: and it's been this way for years. Quite frankly, this
Speaker 1: is not just a new thing that's come up over
Speaker 1: Bronze Bear. This has been MMO games for years.
Speaker 8: Just happened. It wasn't World Within like one of the
Speaker 8: first expansions they did like three day early access and
Speaker 8: then they like nerved, they nerved like everything like right
Speaker 8: before it went to the you know books, people.
Speaker 13: That did.
Speaker 1: That just happened, they did do that. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: really comes down to yeah, yeah, so it comes down
Speaker 1: to maybe we'll first tackle this slack. You know, this
Speaker 1: is where I'll throw it to you and ask you
Speaker 1: are you of that crowd that does sort of say
Speaker 1: unless because Voodoo is of this crowd. Unless I'm buying
Speaker 1: a weapon. It's not paid to win.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I'm kind of in between. I'm kind of torn
Speaker 5: on that, especially after this last week of talking to
Speaker 5: you and Easy and everybody else, I'm kind of in
Speaker 5: between on it. I mean kind of torn. Look at
Speaker 5: it like this. So this is kind of the discussion
Speaker 5: we were having earlier before you had popped on. Was
Speaker 5: when Classic released okay twenty nineteen Vanilla Classic releases, they
Speaker 5: offered a collector's edition, correct Classic That collector's edition, yes,
Speaker 5: I don't remember Classic collector's edition that you could pay
Speaker 5: for sixty bucks, fifty bucks or whatever it was. Uh,
Speaker 5: it gave you amount, It gave you a pet, and
Speaker 5: they gave you a couple other little items here and there.
Speaker 5: When TBC Classic released they offered a collector's edition.
Speaker 1: I think I think the I think the first one.
Speaker 5: Well, they they did on the they did on the
Speaker 5: first one, and I remember because I wanted them out.
Speaker 5: But TBC Classic releases this collector's edition and it's also
Speaker 5: got a character boost. Okay, retail's got character boosts. Now,
Speaker 5: we got the Wold token inside a Classic and you
Speaker 5: can also character boost, and you can faction change, and
Speaker 5: you can race change and all that other stuff. So
Speaker 5: my question to those that are making the argument that uh,
Speaker 5: Bronze Beard's pay to win because of all this stuff,
Speaker 5: how many of you guys bought a race change or
Speaker 5: a faction change.
Speaker 1: But that that's fair, that's but that's an an argument.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to say you're hypocrites, versus is the
Speaker 1: boost pay to win?
Speaker 7: It's time time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So do you cast it? Do you refer
Speaker 1: to the booster's pay to win?
Speaker 21: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't refer to the pay to win. But those
Speaker 5: those that are sitting here saying that time is being
Speaker 5: taken away and it's a character boost. So you're talking
Speaker 5: about a week's worth of leveling, two weeks worth of
Speaker 5: leveling right, so that time is taken away. Therefore, upon
Speaker 5: their definition of pay to win, that's pay to win.
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point to raise. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a few things to unpack here, but to bring it
Speaker 1: back to you vestige, if I can and just say, like,
Speaker 1: I think that that's actually pretty good point. Like are
Speaker 1: you being hypocritical if you've brought a boost in the
Speaker 1: past to sit here and be like pay to win sucks.
Speaker 1: I'm not playing this server, but oh I've bought a
Speaker 1: few boosts in Classic.
Speaker 6: No, it's absolutely pay to win.
Speaker 12: How is.
Speaker 6: Pay to win?
Speaker 7: I mean you are, Yeah, but you didn't stop playing
Speaker 7: at TBC if you played through it that it didn't
Speaker 7: it didn't sour the the.
Speaker 6: The time that you play Classic.
Speaker 7: Well, but most people did. Most people went through TVC.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was a big deal.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 8: It was a really big deal. It got the fucking
Speaker 8: spit Emo band because it was associated with the mount,
Speaker 8: so you knew everybody that bought the boost. It was
Speaker 8: a huge deal. Everyone felt betrayed that they were adding.
Speaker 7: People.
Speaker 8: Still a lot of a lot of Yeah, was a
Speaker 8: game without making you know.
Speaker 18: I don't know anybody that stopped playing because of that,
Speaker 18: and maybe because I'm not in the scene that much,
Speaker 18: but I don't know anybody that stopped playing.
Speaker 6: It all depends where you have to go. I mean
Speaker 6: there was only TEP, there was only TBC Classic at
Speaker 6: the time, so.
Speaker 7: But doesn't have subs. They're not making any money and
Speaker 7: they have some of that. They have some time saving
Speaker 7: things in here to help fund what they're doing.
Speaker 6: Right, I'm not saying the cash is wrong at all.
Speaker 7: But you cannot You're enjoying it because of the.
Speaker 18: Buying right for me, right, And I don't want you
Speaker 18: to get the wrong idea either, because I would prefer
Speaker 18: there would be no shop, zero shop.
Speaker 20: That's my preference.
Speaker 8: Look, I think I think generous that want to waste
Speaker 8: our time, and when there's a thing in a shop
Speaker 8: that someone can buy, it takes away from the like
Speaker 8: twelve hour night that you're going to put into the
Speaker 8: game where you just fucking lose your mind and grind
Speaker 8: and you're so immersed. But if you know that like
Speaker 8: that isn't going to give you an advantage that it
Speaker 8: used to give you, then you're like, how is that
Speaker 8: crazy that you're like less incentivized to like want to just.
Speaker 18: Enjoying itself a twelve hours grinding like that's I enjoy that.
Speaker 20: I don't care to get there.
Speaker 8: Sure, but an MMO is not just the gameplay a vacuum.
Speaker 8: It's the entire It's like your place within the socioeconomic
Speaker 8: you know, population of the game. Like that's all relevant.
Speaker 8: Like how much money that you make in the game
Speaker 8: is relevant, Like how much time you have to do
Speaker 8: content relevant.
Speaker 6: All these things are.
Speaker 20: Real important to you because it's not important to me
Speaker 20: in the slowest.
Speaker 7: Like it sounds like you know, the very self mode
Speaker 7: where with people and you were on your personal lute
Speaker 7: that way, your time is only your time, and how
Speaker 7: what other people do don't affect you?
Speaker 1: Voodoo voo.
Speaker 8: You don't care about the achievements that you get on
Speaker 8: your own.
Speaker 20: What's going on the achievements that you.
Speaker 8: Get on your own, Right, you can compare that against
Speaker 8: other players, Like if you run UBRS twice and they've
Speaker 8: only run it once, you might have more things than them. Right,
Speaker 8: you can directly compare those things to So I'm just
Speaker 8: understanding that this shouldn't be It's not like how you
Speaker 8: enjoy the game. I'm just I'm just speaking from the
Speaker 8: perspective of like this is how I like to play Wow.
Speaker 8: I like to fucking goon out on Wow and just
Speaker 8: play it for sixteen hours because I have nothing better
Speaker 8: to do and I love the game. But if I'm
Speaker 8: gonna do that, I don't want to be doing it
Speaker 8: with other people that can get those advantages that don't
Speaker 8: have that same degenerate mindset, you know what I mean,
Speaker 8: Because all I have is that I'm a degenerate that
Speaker 8: plays Wow, and if I'm gonna be on a server,
Speaker 8: I want that to equal something that like, I feel
Speaker 8: good about at the end of the day. So that's
Speaker 8: the thing that chases people away from games with shops
Speaker 8: that give you an advantage because it's like, well, now
Speaker 8: the only thing that I have in my life, which
Speaker 8: is being a nerd with all this free time, it
Speaker 8: doesn't mean anything because some guy with the job that
Speaker 8: used to be a handicap for games like this can
Speaker 8: just come in and buy all the shit that like
Speaker 8: I'm wasting my life to get.
Speaker 20: Well, they're more of all the nerds.
Speaker 18: We're all nerds. We all know that enjoy it in
Speaker 18: our own little way. But I get what you're saying
Speaker 18: because I do share your passion. That's how I like
Speaker 18: to play. I do like to just degen out and
Speaker 18: and sync myself into it. But if someone wants to
Speaker 18: pay to get there, that doesn't worry me, that doesn't
Speaker 18: bother me.
Speaker 5: That's gonna this is gonna be the same argument that
Speaker 5: a lot of people are gonna have too when it
Speaker 5: comes time for Turtle Wow, because or whoever's going to
Speaker 5: play Turtle whole turt a while I've got a cash shop, Dude.
Speaker 1: Can I can I jump in? Can I jump in?
Speaker 1: For one second? Voodoo? To be fair, I gave your
Speaker 1: I gave you and cast it. I cast it raised
Speaker 1: a really good twoche moment before for the other team,
Speaker 1: But now I'm going to have to raise one on
Speaker 1: their behalf for you. Are you ready for this? You
Speaker 1: still love me?
Speaker 6: Right of course?
Speaker 1: Okay? Very good to be fair on d C. Green's
Speaker 1: points and on what you've said. You know, you, Marcus
Speaker 1: and Hunk and I quit a guild in sod because
Speaker 1: we drew in a line in the sand on gold buying.
Speaker 1: You know, we were like, that's not cool. Our whole
Speaker 1: guild has this inter guild secret gold buying operation that
Speaker 1: we're not on board. With and we g quit and
Speaker 1: we got out of it. We're not gold buyers. We're
Speaker 1: not into it now. To be fair, you're anti gold buying.
Speaker 1: But then if I were to say to you, why
Speaker 1: are you anti gold buying when that guy just chooses
Speaker 1: to cut corners? What effect does that have on you?
Speaker 18: Well, I'm not breaking any tears here, is like, sorry,
Speaker 18: by by buying something from this shop.
Speaker 20: I don't want to be part of a guild.
Speaker 1: That's like, right, So okay, that's fair. So the gold
Speaker 1: buying element had breaking the rules as a part of it,
Speaker 1: so that's yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 6: Okay, all right.
Speaker 1: Here, yeah, please, I think he needs a lawyer.
Speaker 19: Yeah, so I'm with it. I think it's completely not
Speaker 19: on the overall point, but on this point, I think
Speaker 19: they're completely different. Being a cheater is disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 13: Whether or not you like to win is just a preference.
Speaker 1: It's just very fair.
Speaker 19: It's not a principle of mine. It's just a it's
Speaker 19: just a preference. It's not this is right, this is wrong.
Speaker 19: This is what some people like. Some people we don't like.
Speaker 19: Some people like. Pay for convenience totally, okay, pay for power,
Speaker 19: not Okay, some people like both. Some people just like
Speaker 19: pay for cosmetics. It's not to me, it's not like
Speaker 19: this like moral stand. It's just I don't want to play.
Speaker 1: No, I agree, it's a very fair point. Voodovoo Voodoo
Speaker 1: brought up as well. It's the perfect counterpoint. I withdraw
Speaker 1: my submission.
Speaker 7: And I maybe maybe sure he's got You know, Josh,
Speaker 7: you often say this, You're very fortunate that you can
Speaker 7: game so much. DC's got sixteen hours that he can
Speaker 7: just like you said djon out, I get three to four. Yeah,
Speaker 7: so I'm inherently at a disadvantage. I don't I don't
Speaker 7: buy a lot of I don't have the money to
Speaker 7: spend I don't have the financial ability to spend money
Speaker 7: on it. But to come into a game where you
Speaker 7: have sixteen hours to play then puts me at a
Speaker 7: disadvantage because you can play more. And so therefore, do
Speaker 7: I not play the game because I don't have have
Speaker 7: the same time investment which you are considering pay to win.
Speaker 21: No.
Speaker 7: I play the game because I like it. The game's fun.
Speaker 7: I don't care that this guy is nerding out for
Speaker 7: sixteen hours a day and has everything in the game.
Speaker 7: Big fucking whoop. I can still join our raid. I
Speaker 7: can go push my buttons. I don't care about parsing.
Speaker 7: Just play the game if it's fun. Like, who cares
Speaker 7: what someone can buy? Who cares how they look? In
Speaker 7: this game? You can actually turn it off other than
Speaker 7: the mounts. I think. Can't turn off the mounts unfortunately,
Speaker 7: but you can turn off all their crazy trans mogs
Speaker 7: and only see the gear they want to wear. Just
Speaker 7: play a game you enjoy and like, if someone can
Speaker 7: put a credit card to it, great, good for them.
Speaker 7: I can't I get three or four hours of play.
Speaker 7: I'll never be at that degon level where I can
Speaker 7: just be the best at everything.
Speaker 1: So just to love it. You go jumping jump in.
Speaker 10: The cosmetics is one thing. But like the fact that
Speaker 10: you can, if I understand correctly, you can buy I
Speaker 10: think that lets you have all the professions.
Speaker 1: That's exactly where I was going. That's exactly where I
Speaker 1: was going.
Speaker 10: I feel like that is an advantage that is just
Speaker 10: completely unnatural, because if you don't swipe your credit card,
Speaker 10: you don't have that opportunity.
Speaker 5: Like you yes you do. You can still auction house
Speaker 5: with gold with in game gold that you grind it.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you grind you credit card.
Speaker 7: I also don't pay a stub, so I could say,
Speaker 7: you know what, I want those professions. Maybe I'll drop
Speaker 7: this one time donation and get those things, so I'm
Speaker 7: not at that disadvantage.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but that's that's what I'm trying to say here,
Speaker 10: is that like that sort of advantage is only available
Speaker 10: to the people with either sixteen IROs to play in
Speaker 10: order to grind the gold or buy it. And I
Speaker 10: really really.
Speaker 18: Doubt there's going to be on one end of the spectrum.
Speaker 20: Like that's leaving a very small amount of people.
Speaker 10: That is a human majority.
Speaker 20: I'm going to grind over.
Speaker 5: All again again though again though real quick, how does
Speaker 5: how does somebody having a maxed out profession having the
Speaker 5: advantage over you?
Speaker 20: Economy, I think is what they're Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't. I can't sort of take us at
Speaker 1: that point.
Speaker 5: I just I just I guess I don't understand that.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's.
Speaker 20: Understand that economy. It just it definitely changes economy.
Speaker 7: Understand Yeah, but what what what are you trying to do?
Speaker 7: Be the king pin of the economy? Can you afford
Speaker 7: to do the things you want to do?
Speaker 13: Then?
Speaker 1: But of course some people play like that. Of course
Speaker 1: some people do that, and.
Speaker 20: That's that's what I'm saying before.
Speaker 18: That's probably where our argument is selfish, because some people
Speaker 18: do like to play that part of the game, being
Speaker 18: the you know, economy kings and that sort stuff, which
Speaker 18: is fine. I don't think is any problem with that,
Speaker 18: but it's dude.
Speaker 8: Here's the thing is, like you amount of pearl, you
Speaker 8: need a golden pearl to make your ruined arcaonnite rod Well,
Speaker 8: this guy he got all the professions at level one,
Speaker 8: He's got so much gold that by the time he
Speaker 8: gets sixty, which is going to get faster than you
Speaker 8: because he's got other advantages, He's going to buy out
Speaker 8: all the golden pearls and try and sell them to
Speaker 8: you for a hundred gold apiece. And then what are
Speaker 8: you gonna do? You only need one of.
Speaker 6: Them, but you've got sixty.
Speaker 8: You know what I mean? This is like what happens yea.
Speaker 7: Djon, farm your golden pearls and be done with it,
Speaker 7: Like go farm at yourself like him having control the market,
Speaker 7: you want to go grind for sixty, Now go grind it.
Speaker 8: Then he's like him, him being able to get that
Speaker 8: advantage is an advantage. And then and then that like
Speaker 8: a crew that like you know, compounds because like the
Speaker 8: gold that you earn the quick the quicker you earn
Speaker 8: gold on the server, right, the more that it's worth
Speaker 8: because of how inflation works. So like the longer the
Speaker 8: server that goes on, things get cheaper obviously, right, So
Speaker 8: like I'm just saying that these are no that that
Speaker 8: doesn't matter, But the point is that.
Speaker 7: Like a way to earn gold faster than those people
Speaker 7: that have to farm it and don't do g d
Speaker 7: k P. It's it's actually, yeah, it's an economy ship.
Speaker 8: I agree, But g d k P isn't like a
Speaker 8: thing that you can buy in the shot. And that's
Speaker 8: like mainly what we're talking about. So I'd rather keep
Speaker 8: it focused on it.
Speaker 7: It was a it was a player created way to
Speaker 7: shift golden.
Speaker 8: I'm always I'm aware of what it is, and I've
Speaker 8: stated in my opinions on it on this podcast before.
Speaker 8: I don't want to like, yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 8: drag us into a agent.
Speaker 1: That is like never don't do the GdK thing, please.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't want I'm trying to avoid it.
Speaker 13: Let me.
Speaker 9: Let me just let me just certificant amount of money.
Speaker 9: I could justify it. But we're talking eight dollars. Eight
Speaker 9: dollars new prepression. Oh you want to maxim prepession out,
Speaker 9: so you go to grind. I've got to sit there
Speaker 9: and chain in my own gear. River and I but
Speaker 9: I freaking chance and chat now I box like a
Speaker 9: maximum prepassion eight dollars me. I'm sorry, it's a really
Speaker 9: tiny amount of money for being able to do something
Speaker 9: that way. You could have every fifty buck.
Speaker 1: Let me just raise this. We sort of this is
Speaker 1: a great conversation, guys, Thank you so much. I appreciate
Speaker 1: everyone's passion. If I can just throw a back cast
Speaker 1: it eff just to go back on this whole like
Speaker 1: what constitutes pay to win and whatnot, and sort of
Speaker 1: we talked about whether or not it's the buying of
Speaker 1: items or the buying of time and everything. But you know,
Speaker 1: you seem to have a pretty high threshold for what
Speaker 1: you do constitute as pay to win. So i'd sort
Speaker 1: of say, and I brought the same thing up to Voodoo,
Speaker 1: going like, okay, let's say the shop doesn't have items,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, it doesn't have items, I don't
Speaker 1: really constitute that as pay to win, But like we're
Speaker 1: saying on the economic angle, like DC Green is sort
Speaker 1: of saying, if you are that guy, and these guys exist,
Speaker 1: you know, the sweat lords who will fucking do everything
Speaker 1: to win when they buy all the shit, when they
Speaker 1: buy all the professional slots and they fucking dominate the
Speaker 1: auction house and all that stuff. Or even if it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily the sweat lord, when someone makes their gold
Speaker 1: that they would not have made had they not born
Speaker 1: to the ship and then they use that gold to
Speaker 1: buy the boe weapons on the auction house that they
Speaker 1: never would have come within smelling distance of because they're
Speaker 1: a ship house player. Is that not then like, just
Speaker 1: do the dots start to get connected to pay to win?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 18: I know what your argument is, but that has it's
Speaker 18: never affected me. I've always found what I've wanted to find.
Speaker 18: I've always bought what I've wanted to buy. It just
Speaker 18: I haven't seen it affect me that much. I know
Speaker 18: that the argument there is if the golden pearl is
Speaker 18: one hundred gold because all bones find it all out,
Speaker 18: that's great.
Speaker 20: I'll just I'll just pay the hundred gold.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying like it's it's it's probably a
Speaker 1: shit example, But I'm like, when you're in the battleground
Speaker 1: with people beating your ass and you're losing because their
Speaker 1: equipment is better than yours because they got it because
Speaker 1: of the shop. Now, it's not directly on the shop,
Speaker 1: but they earned the money to buy the good And
Speaker 1: I know there's like, oh Josh, but you can't get
Speaker 1: PVPG that way. I'm just saying in general to say, like,
Speaker 1: I think there was a guy that otherwise would be
Speaker 1: in your wars on gulching greens and be a fucking
Speaker 1: terrible player, is now wearing really decent blues and killing
Speaker 1: you every now and again. Does that bother you?
Speaker 16: No?
Speaker 18: Because I barely come across it, and a belly affects
Speaker 18: me in any way. So it's saying, well, whatever, I
Speaker 18: move on to the next fucking battleground.
Speaker 20: My My problem is.
Speaker 18: Is if if I'm at sixty and I'm in battlegrounds
Speaker 18: and some guy has, like, you know, all the best
Speaker 18: gear you can get, but you can only get that
Speaker 18: gear from buying it, and I can't earn it. That's
Speaker 18: what I have an issue if I can earn it
Speaker 18: and I can just spend a bit more time getting there. Whatever,
Speaker 18: if he wants to get there quicker on him, I
Speaker 18: don't give a shit. That's on you, mate.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 20: For me, I'm going to enjoy grinding it exactly.
Speaker 2: That's great what.
Speaker 8: It's like for the first For the first two weeks,
Speaker 8: you're going to have a ninety losery and then after
Speaker 8: that it doesn't work.
Speaker 20: That's a number you've plucked out of thin air. It
Speaker 20: doesn't work that way.
Speaker 8: Well, you're talking, You're you're saying a bunch of anecdotal
Speaker 8: stuff too.
Speaker 18: No, I'm just saying that if someone wants to buy
Speaker 18: better gear than me, that that sure.
Speaker 8: But like they're they're gonna like, let's say that they
Speaker 8: can't buy the gear, right, but they can get the
Speaker 8: level sixty two days faster than you, so they can
Speaker 8: run two days worth of ubrs. So they're gonna have
Speaker 8: more power than you in the battleground, which means they're
Speaker 8: gonna win more, which means again we're honor per hour,
Speaker 8: which one you're faster. Okay, I'm just saying like that,
Speaker 8: you know, because I've done that in mop already and
Speaker 8: let me tell you, it fucking sucks.
Speaker 1: It feels like the kind of it feels like the
Speaker 1: kind of thing you'd say you're okay with on paper,
Speaker 1: but when you feel it in practice, Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you do it and.
Speaker 8: You're like, wow, I actually never want to play this game.
Speaker 6: Wants to fill myself every expansion.
Speaker 18: I'm going through this with a lot of people loosing
Speaker 18: their characters and all that sort of ship and whatever.
Speaker 18: Like it's it's never affected me. I've only cared about
Speaker 18: if I'm having fun at the time. If I'm losing
Speaker 18: like a fair feed battle.
Speaker 8: Sure, you've done it in a curated environment where they
Speaker 8: can't buy power, but like, yeah, but like in this situation,
Speaker 8: we're talking that they can actually buy power. So it's
Speaker 8: like it's gonna be different, your your opinion will be different.
Speaker 18: I don't understand how they're buying power. They're just just
Speaker 18: getting there quicker, right. If someone is getting to sixty
Speaker 18: two days before me, that's not effect.
Speaker 8: You've You've said that you played against like on Blizzard
Speaker 8: servers where people have like boosted and stuff, and it's
Speaker 8: not affected you. And yeah, that's like a curated environment
Speaker 8: where they don't let you buy power. But in an
Speaker 8: example like any of these ascension servers where they're going
Speaker 8: to try and be a little bit more lucrative and
Speaker 8: you know, leaning it with that model, you're gonna be
Speaker 8: going against people that do buy power. And when you
Speaker 8: do have that experience, you're gonna you're gonna be like, Yeah,
Speaker 8: this is a worse experience until you keeck up with that.
Speaker 18: If I'm if I'm in a battleground, I can say
Speaker 18: that someone is able to obtain weapons and arma that
Speaker 18: I cannot obtain just by putting a bit of time in.
Speaker 20: That's when I'll have an issue.
Speaker 18: If they can get that stuff earlier that I can get,
Speaker 18: I don't care.
Speaker 1: I'll jump in now. I'll jump in. I'll jump in
Speaker 1: now because I start.
Speaker 10: I agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just say start starting to repay.
Speaker 7: Ourselvesattle ground classic example where we didn't have a cash shop.
Speaker 7: Did you not play battlegrounds for the for however long
Speaker 7: when the first high war lords got other ship and
Speaker 7: you didn't have it because they had so much more
Speaker 7: power than you, uh time, they have the time to
Speaker 7: invest to get it, and they are more powerful than
Speaker 7: you because they had the degen time to do it.
Speaker 7: And you can't do that. Now you're getting womped on
Speaker 7: about all these hall Warlords begs aren't fun. Did you
Speaker 7: quit playing be GI's the rest of the classic.
Speaker 8: Because you can read with them.
Speaker 7: You put in the time.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 8: See, Yeah, you put in the time and raids and
Speaker 8: you got items that are just as good.
Speaker 7: So you about it a different way to get get power.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean like we're talking about like they didn't
Speaker 8: the game and the Yeah no, nothing that they get
Speaker 8: in the game that the game allows them to get
Speaker 8: ruins by experience? Why would it? Just like they dedicated
Speaker 8: hours with PvP. I was the guy that did raids
Speaker 8: and I got good gear through raids, so it's like, okay, cool,
Speaker 8: come at me, high WARLERD Like I don't care.
Speaker 7: And then why would guy with the gear that bought
Speaker 7: it and you wamp his ass because he doesn't want
Speaker 7: to play his class and he paid, He paid, He
Speaker 7: paid to get there faster, he didn't pay to win.
Speaker 8: Sure, yeah, sometimes that happens. Yeah, Sure, I'm not denying that.
Speaker 7: It's I don't know, it's a time thing. It's it's
Speaker 7: how you value your time. And if you want to
Speaker 7: value your time farming versus someone who's like I don't
Speaker 7: got time, or maybe you have time and I just
Speaker 7: want to be rich like your time.
Speaker 8: Your example is you're comparing two systems in the game
Speaker 8: that reward your time equally. So like your example isn't
Speaker 8: like achieving the situation that you want, like the argument
Speaker 8: that you want, because like the high warlord in two
Speaker 8: thousand and four and the guy that raided in two
Speaker 8: thousand and four, their time is of equal value doing
Speaker 8: both of those things. So like I can see when
Speaker 8: we then drag it back down to the pay to
Speaker 8: win thing, then yeah, like the whole argument becomes different.
Speaker 8: But like in that scenario, you know, those things are
Speaker 8: both equally valued.
Speaker 7: I never would have the time to go for high warlord.
Speaker 7: That did not stop me from doing battlegrounds when I
Speaker 7: wouldn't have geared to to beat a high warlord.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I know you're the one making that premise. Like
Speaker 8: no one's arguing that you're you're like hypothetically it and
Speaker 8: I'm not, like you know, I'm just trying to tear
Speaker 8: it down because it's not representative of anyone's position.
Speaker 7: It's it's a time thing. That's that's where you're you're
Speaker 7: paying to win. Thing is about time, and there's a time.
Speaker 8: They have other than grinding. It's like, what's your I
Speaker 8: don't get.
Speaker 7: Your That's the time is their currency. They have the
Speaker 7: time to do it. I will never have that currency.
Speaker 7: They are paying their time to get that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, time to get other things.
Speaker 18: So but tom doesn't cost anyone anything, right, like will
Speaker 18: it costs you?
Speaker 8: Time?
Speaker 2: Is time?
Speaker 20: Like like you said, you.
Speaker 18: Have the time to play, Like I don't have the
Speaker 18: time that you have to play.
Speaker 6: So that is the basic contract of the m mL
Speaker 6: is time. The more time you invest in it, the
Speaker 6: more you're rewarded. That the basic contract.
Speaker 7: Gilboard too. It's horizontal progression where time is really out
Speaker 7: about making yourself more powerful.
Speaker 18: If someone wants to get there quicker, like let them.
Speaker 20: I don't see that like it, it doesn't affect.
Speaker 1: We've made the same point five times now, so I'll
Speaker 1: drag us off and maybe this I enjoy. Look a
Speaker 1: few of you listening at home, A lot of you
Speaker 1: will be like riding in going like Josh, everyone's yelling
Speaker 1: over each other. This is shit. I can't fucking understand anything.
Speaker 1: I personally love these chats because, like I say, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm at the pub. This is everyone with
Speaker 1: the beer in hands and mates getting fiery and going
Speaker 1: back and forth over a really interesting topic. I love
Speaker 1: this kind of shit, so sorry, thank you for indulging
Speaker 1: me while we do that, I take a step back.
Speaker 1: I actually wasn't really I'm not sitting here like not
Speaker 1: doing anything because I'm playing the game. I'm just listening in.
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying it. But we are getting a little bit circular.
Speaker 1: So time for Daddy Josh to come in and say,
Speaker 1: all right, settle down everyone, We'll try and get back
Speaker 1: on track.
Speaker 16: Can I make a slightly tan gential point that other
Speaker 16: people are.
Speaker 1: Making absolutely.
Speaker 16: One thing that's seems to be, like we were talking
Speaker 16: about time. I think if you're able to skip the
Speaker 16: journey in any way, shape or form, you pull away
Speaker 16: from creating an opportunity to communicate engage with other players
Speaker 16: in the game, which is the entire purpose of the MMO.
Speaker 16: And that's I guess my big problem with.
Speaker 22: Any sort of purchasing shop option, not if you've done
Speaker 22: it or not, but you mitigate the engagements with other people.
Speaker 16: That can't be good in an MMO.
Speaker 18: A valid point, but if that's what that person wants
Speaker 18: to do, then that's on them, right, It shouldn't affect you,
Speaker 18: but it does affect you.
Speaker 13: Exist.
Speaker 8: I feel like.
Speaker 1: You've made the same point ten times, so I don't
Speaker 1: want to go back there again.
Speaker 20: More of us that would enjoy that, I think. I
Speaker 20: think we all.
Speaker 18: Enjoy that aspect of the MMO anyway, there's more people
Speaker 18: that do.
Speaker 1: We can't quantify that anyway, It shows in here that
Speaker 1: there is I mean, but then you had Yeah, but
Speaker 1: then you had a But then you had a million
Speaker 1: people play Classic in twenty nineteen without any of this ship.
Speaker 18: So what I'm saying, what I'm what I'm saying is
Speaker 18: that most of us would enjoy to not pay to
Speaker 18: get there quicker and to enjoy the immersive.
Speaker 20: Side of it.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, Yeah, I'm on board with Yeah. Sorry I
Speaker 1: thought you were saying the opposite. Okay, guys, fuck me,
Speaker 1: my head is spinning. That was very passionate back and forth.
Speaker 1: Where do we even go from here? Who feels what
Speaker 1: haven't we talked about that? We have to talk about?
Speaker 6: Hey, that certain service actually certain server work I said
Speaker 6: there was there was a certain server world first.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I almost forgot how could I forget?
Speaker 1: Thank you for fucking reminding me. Oh my god. All right,
Speaker 1: saddle up for a tale of triumph countdown listeners. All right,
Speaker 1: so this feels like a lifetime ago. I can't believe
Speaker 1: this is like like fucking a week ago. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So over on Epoch, they they did finally get off
Speaker 1: their asses and announce some form of new content and
Speaker 1: they go, all right, we'll release the new world boss
Speaker 1: and Volhan is going to patrol the Burning Steps and
Speaker 1: you know, you guys can get your guilds together, your
Speaker 1: raids together and try and take him down. So we
Speaker 1: knew it was going to be a shit show. I
Speaker 1: put together some people and said, look, guys, we've got
Speaker 1: to have a stab. Like we're not going to get it,
Speaker 1: but let's just go and have a look and see
Speaker 1: what this thing's all about. And everyone's like, yeah, fuck yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. So we got about I don't know
Speaker 1: fifteen fifteen odd countdown people, fifty five plus going to
Speaker 1: the Burning Steps and we just started. I just started
Speaker 1: inviting everyone because we needed to feel like a forty
Speaker 1: man group. So he filled up to forty and we're
Speaker 1: cross faction and everything Alliance hoard. I didn't give a shit,
Speaker 1: but it's there for a laugh. A guy whispers me
Speaker 1: and goes, lol, what the fuck have you? Like, I'm
Speaker 1: the raid leader, and it's like, what the fuck have
Speaker 1: you done? You're half hoarded, half a lot, like, imagine
Speaker 1: not knowing how this thing. And he had to go
Speaker 1: at me. He's like, imagine not doing the beta and
Speaker 1: not knowing how this thing works, You're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to heal each other. And I'm like, made,
Speaker 1: fuck off. I didn't do the beta, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to have someone fucking like have a go at
Speaker 1: me for not knowing shit from the beta. Go fuck yourself. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I still took on board what he said,
Speaker 1: and I said to the guys, look, apparently we're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to heal each other, you know
Speaker 1: if you order Alliance, So let's just make do with
Speaker 1: what we've got and have some fun and fucking I
Speaker 1: really just I just don't care, guys. We're just here
Speaker 1: to dig around. So Volhan comes out and it's this
Speaker 1: huge molten giant and his abilities were bonkers. Vestige will
Speaker 1: explain in greater detail than I will, but it was really,
Speaker 1: really fucking cool to see. It was a war zone.
Speaker 1: People are going for the tag he's one shotting people
Speaker 1: That AoE was insane. I've got screenshots in the discord
Speaker 1: of all these fire missiles just cleaning up groups upon
Speaker 1: groups of people. It was fucking bonkers. PvP is going everywhere.
Speaker 1: I'm getting fucking too shit. You know, when you res
Speaker 1: as a ghost, there's a million people as ghosts jogging
Speaker 1: back to the boss. It was just something really cool
Speaker 1: and unique and fun. A lot of people would say, like,
Speaker 1: not a lot, sorry. Some people will say, oh, this
Speaker 1: is fucking bullshit. World bosses need to be in an instance,
Speaker 1: like they were on SOD or whatever. This is fucked Look,
Speaker 1: I mean, the argument is there for it. But I
Speaker 1: thought this was really cool. So we plod along and
Speaker 1: it was. It was my wife's birthday and I'd woken
Speaker 1: up at five o'clock in the morning to do this thing.
Speaker 1: But eventually, about an hour forty five minutes later, my
Speaker 1: wife wakes up and I'm like, guys, look, we're in
Speaker 1: the middle of the fight, and I'm like, the boss
Speaker 1: is still at ninety five percent health or whatever, and
Speaker 1: it keeps getting fucking you know. Retagged and retagged and
Speaker 1: everyone's killing each other and it was fun for like
Speaker 1: half an hour, and I say, guys, fuck, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I've got to go, you know, family first, got to
Speaker 1: do the birthday thing with the missus. Yeah, no ways, Josh,
Speaker 1: will see you later. I passed the lead over to
Speaker 1: Lazarus and I dip out, just thinking that was that
Speaker 1: they'll they'll have a bit of fun and sort of
Speaker 1: all move on eventually. Now, at this point in the storyline,
Speaker 1: I should probably throw it to you, Vestige and just say,
Speaker 1: before we get to what happened after I left, what
Speaker 1: did you think? What you were initial impressions of the
Speaker 1: collection of people in the zone and the side of
Speaker 1: the boss.
Speaker 6: Well, it got up to be about a thousand people
Speaker 6: in the zone Horder and Alliance, and when, of course
Speaker 6: the Boss came out, we all got PvP flagged and
Speaker 6: the lag was insane, almost couldn't do anything.
Speaker 1: It was terrible. Yeah, but only for a few minutes.
Speaker 6: But yeah, only for a few minutes. It got better
Speaker 6: and got better and got better, and eventually it almost
Speaker 6: didn't feel like there was any difference at all. And
Speaker 6: we still had like seven hundred people, eight people and
Speaker 6: in that zone just just to grab you doing something
Speaker 6: on the back end to improve.
Speaker 1: It absolutely and just to grab you here just I
Speaker 1: don't want to go down this tangent. No extra commentary needed.
Speaker 1: All I'll say is this is another point where it's easy.
Speaker 1: And I got angrier and angrier at Blizzard, as we
Speaker 1: always say, because the privates in real time, within five minutes,
Speaker 1: literally within five minutes, worked out how to have a
Speaker 1: thousand people in a zone or pvping each other with
Speaker 1: no lag. And it was bonkers and Blizzard cannot do
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty for whatever technical reason
Speaker 1: that they use, and it it made me want to scream.
Speaker 1: Anyway back to you Vestige.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. So we have this insane, huge world PvP
Speaker 6: going on. Wilkins going around throwing out these oars which
Speaker 6: are throwing off missiles everywhere, killing everybody. People are killing
Speaker 6: each other. It's just absolute freaking chaos. So we're just
Speaker 6: going back and forth, killing each other, trying to hit
Speaker 6: the boss. All all kinds of shenanigans are happening. It
Speaker 6: gets the boss gets down to the world boss. You know,
Speaker 6: we're flinging it back and forth between the hoard and alliant,
Speaker 6: it's been tagged by somebody else, and I think we
Speaker 6: got it down to like seventy sixty percent, and then
Speaker 6: the server crashed. So at that point I think a
Speaker 6: lot of people dipped out. I think LAS dipped out
Speaker 6: at that point, right.
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's what I left.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so a lot of people just like, hey, okay, fine,
Speaker 6: we're done.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 1: Key point of the story at this moment, though, when
Speaker 1: I left, I vividly remember turning it to master Louder.
Speaker 1: When I passed lead to LAS, did that keep Master lout?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 13: It changed every timewitch every time you switch LEA.
Speaker 1: Okay I didn't. I didn't realize that, but I mean, besides,
Speaker 1: I passed you lead. I did doubt that was for
Speaker 1: you guys to figure out. But Master Loot is now off.
Speaker 6: Yes, so Master Looter is off, and.
Speaker 13: I think I passed lead to the Vestage.
Speaker 6: Well I don't think you came back, right, No, but.
Speaker 13: I pass passively someone on the gilt.
Speaker 6: I don't know who became lead at this point, I
Speaker 6: honestly don't, but it doesn't really matter. So then the
Speaker 6: server comes back and the whole boss system resets, So
Speaker 6: that means the whole the RP event, everything started over
Speaker 6: again because of the server reset, so we all go
Speaker 6: back again. We're all waiting for the boss to spawn.
Speaker 6: He's spawns, and apparently somebody in our group got the tag.
Speaker 6: I have no idea who it was. I was dead
Speaker 6: at that point, So somebody in our raid got that tag,
Speaker 6: and we didn't know if we actually had it or
Speaker 6: if it was a visual bug. We just kind of
Speaker 6: seed to what happened, and so we just let the
Speaker 6: event play out, and eventually both sides eventually hit the
Speaker 6: boss enough that you know, they killed it and we
Speaker 6: were able to loot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Countdown got the fucking world first.
Speaker 19: I'll tell you why best is important, because I do
Speaker 19: remember passing to you Raid led the world first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is vestage, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 6: All right, I'll add to my resume when I when
Speaker 6: I next next job by a.
Speaker 1: Play Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. Apply for a job
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you know I'd Raid led the world first Killer
Speaker 1: kill of vul Chan on.
Speaker 6: A private server World of Warcraft of the game from
Speaker 6: twenty years ago of an offshoot mod version.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh you're thatstally that would really win the
Speaker 1: ladies over at the bar. Oh my god, yeah, lead
Speaker 1: with that when you're picking up at the bar for sure.
Speaker 13: Yeah, Vegas maybe, yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, if I pay him first. So yeah, so then
Speaker 6: it just goes to greed rolls. So everybody's just eating everything.
Speaker 6: So this is important.
Speaker 1: How many countdown people in this rate of forty at
Speaker 1: this point?
Speaker 6: How many are what?
Speaker 1: How many countdown people in this rate of forty people
Speaker 1: at this point after the kill? Oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: fifteen about fifteen? Okay?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so I know there's a lot offline people,
Speaker 6: people leaving, so it's hard to tell even who was
Speaker 6: going on. We were all trying. We were just like
Speaker 6: all in shock at this point. Yeah, there was a
Speaker 6: lot of going on.
Speaker 1: So well, I mean, I was gonna say, what was
Speaker 1: the mood in voice chat? You guys must have gone nuts.
Speaker 6: Oh we were all screaming and going crazy.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. All right, So now I'm going to try
Speaker 1: and help set the scene here with a bunch of questions. So, okay,
Speaker 1: so what drops.
Speaker 6: Two handed mace epic maze and like called world breaker
Speaker 6: or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks insanely good.
Speaker 6: It's look it looks like it's really good. I don't
Speaker 6: think the I think that it's bugged from what I
Speaker 6: think people are telling me that the proc chance wasn't
Speaker 6: working right.
Speaker 1: Okay, but it looks insane the model. The model is
Speaker 1: really cool. So anyway, so that drops, and that's pretty
Speaker 1: much the only cool thing dropped a bunch of other
Speaker 1: ship but the only really good thing was one two
Speaker 1: handed mace weapon, right, and it was like a strength
Speaker 1: stam and what's what's the proc on it? For extra
Speaker 1: chance to create on your next attack within four seconds? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's like a you know, is it a fair
Speaker 1: to say it was probably like a feral druids wet
Speaker 1: dream or what.
Speaker 19: Absolutely feral Druid enhanced Shaman warrior palade and it's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, so this thing drops as soon as
Speaker 1: everyone sees the purple pixels. What happens next Vestige.
Speaker 6: Well, everybody's kneeding on it, so we just say, hey,
Speaker 6: everybody need on it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When you say everybody, you mean like all the pugs
Speaker 1: have started to need on it.
Speaker 6: Right, everybody in the group is needing on at this point.
Speaker 6: So we didn't have Master Luteran, so there's no way
Speaker 6: to do anything. So we just all need it.
Speaker 1: And thankfully, back in back in one day, Kate telling
Speaker 1: a story, I got to answer a call.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So thankfully a Countdown person did win the need role.
Speaker 6: Gristle won it. So then we were able to formally
Speaker 6: roll the item off to everybody who actually needed it
Speaker 6: based on their specs. We had I think three people
Speaker 6: roll and we had a enhancement shaman from Countdown who
Speaker 6: won it. I forget the names escaping.
Speaker 2: Me, but.
Speaker 6: Carapy yeah, excuse me one and so he got that
Speaker 6: a'smen shamans running around the server with the two and
Speaker 6: mace blowing people up in a PvP.
Speaker 1: I hope all right, Sorry, I'm back. So did you
Speaker 1: did you talk about the fact that we won the role?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So I just said that our guild member won the
Speaker 6: role and Kesby got it, and uh, okay, he's running
Speaker 6: around killing people with it, murdering everybody in sight. There
Speaker 6: was a little bit of drama.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see. Yeah, so what was what was?
Speaker 1: What was the complaint?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 6: Allegations of ninja ing and uh were thrown about. We
Speaker 6: started getting whispers. I was getting whispers other people were,
Speaker 6: and then we started getting discord messages. From some very
Speaker 6: unhappy people. One specific.
Speaker 1: It was mainly one guy, right.
Speaker 6: I got a few from different people at first, but
Speaker 6: this one guy really really yeah it was in our
Speaker 6: group or what happened or what was going on, but.
Speaker 1: DM everyone with m bombs and fucking bad ship.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah. It's probably some of the worst whispering I've seen, Like, like, really, dude,
Speaker 6: he was mad, mad mad, But everything was done fair.
Speaker 6: We rolled it off. He didn't. If he did roll
Speaker 6: for it and didn't win it, that's on him. That's
Speaker 6: luck of the draw. And you know, that's the way,
Speaker 6: that's the way the dice go.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I mean from your retaelling of
Speaker 1: the story, and I invite anyone in the crowd here
Speaker 1: because I genuinely want to know if by the unwritten
Speaker 1: moral and ethical code of World of Warcraft anything was
Speaker 1: done wrong here. But by the sounds of it, this
Speaker 1: was above board. And I'm not just saying that because
Speaker 1: it's fucking our guild, but in all honesty, because I
Speaker 1: wanted to say, I wanted to make sure that we
Speaker 1: didn't fuck around here, that this all happened when I
Speaker 1: went offline or whatever. But in the retailing as Vestige
Speaker 1: says it like, I think that's perfectly fine. And I
Speaker 1: dug through the Epoch discord for everyone's commentary on the event,
Speaker 1: and everyone was like for us and against this douchebag,
Speaker 1: going like they literally did nothing wrong, you fucking idiot.
Speaker 1: Does anyone agree or disagree with the way that this
Speaker 1: was done?
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, screenshots tell it all. I mean, what
Speaker 5: what what were those people going to do that ruled
Speaker 5: need on it, that couldn't even use the damn thing exactly?
Speaker 5: Somebody didn't somebody say there was a major that had
Speaker 5: ruled need on it to Yeah, they rolled on it
Speaker 5: just to say that they had it. Yeah, that's exactly
Speaker 5: what that was. And you know, whether you know if
Speaker 5: they people dropped out a group before having the chance
Speaker 5: to come back and roll on it, you know again
Speaker 5: needed it, you know. Uh sorry, I mean.
Speaker 18: I think at the end of the day, whoever won
Speaker 18: that that mace that got would have message regardless.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I I was so stoked by this by the way.
Speaker 1: I thought this was so fucking funny. I couldn't stop
Speaker 1: laughing that this little dad guild that could countdown fucking
Speaker 1: beat the sweat there were so many sweats there weren't
Speaker 1: there fucking going for it Vestige.
Speaker 6: I had people messaging me like how did you guys
Speaker 6: do it? And I was like, like I had a
Speaker 6: fucking clue what we did? How we did it? Yeah?
Speaker 19: Everyone said it like the whole like zone was fitting
Speaker 19: the boss and we were just like that when I
Speaker 19: could hear it, were just dying and residing and just
Speaker 19: you know, it wasn't only strategy, just the whole server.
Speaker 13: The whole server was killing them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a bit of dumb luck.
Speaker 1: Like it fucking it was a war zone and it
Speaker 1: was dumb luck and we got it, And like I
Speaker 1: just do I do think it's so amazing that like
Speaker 1: the sweaty guilds who were really prepared for this didn't
Speaker 1: get it. But I mean it was just a stupid
Speaker 1: role with the dice.
Speaker 6: That's what world bosses are. They're just pure chaos.
Speaker 19: You response pretty pretty quickly, So so get it.
Speaker 1: Do we put this on our like do we get
Speaker 1: recruits from this? Do we say, like, hey, guys, joint countdown,
Speaker 1: World first Vault chan on Epark.
Speaker 6: I was I was having fun playing with the achievement
Speaker 6: that you got from it. So I was joining groups
Speaker 6: and telling people, I'm like, you're you're lucky. You're in
Speaker 6: a group with people who got the world first kill on.
Speaker 1: This SERI, oh my god, that's sorry. Good I was.
Speaker 6: I was being insufferable for a good twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Very very good.
Speaker 20: So you how you should have?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I agree. More people that messaged me and were angry
Speaker 6: about it.
Speaker 1: Hey on, hay on, hay on, someone was about to
Speaker 1: jump in, go for it.
Speaker 12: I to add in that I know we had that
Speaker 12: the one guy on the actual day of the kill
Speaker 12: that was thrown a foot. In the week following, I
Speaker 12: got probably ten whispers from people that were very upset
Speaker 12: about really. Yeah, well I posted the one in the district.
Speaker 12: You saw it, Josh, and you were pretty much just like,
Speaker 12: let him fucking have it. But I think the last
Speaker 12: one was three days ago, some random guy in West Fall.
Speaker 1: So fucking but have another Like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this re spawn thing is. It hasn't it been killed
Speaker 1: more since then or not?
Speaker 6: I haven't seen it. I haven't heard about it, but
Speaker 6: at least twice.
Speaker 1: It's gone up at least twice since Yeah, Okay, and
Speaker 1: as I presume it's being killed and other people are
Speaker 1: now getting the loot.
Speaker 2: I would think.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so people, it's just a world first
Speaker 1: thing as opposed to It's not like people are never
Speaker 1: going to get a loot from this thing, but anyway you.
Speaker 13: Take it away from them.
Speaker 1: Oh mate, Well look apparently I can't stop ruining servers.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm ruining Epoch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I steal people's world first, I steal their loot. We
Speaker 1: kill the servers. Yeah, I've ruined Bronze Beard.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I just everything I touched turns the ship. We need
Speaker 1: Marcus here to give it to me.
Speaker 20: Oh he's in Kangaroo Court, that sucker.
Speaker 1: What's Marcus done? Should we start? Should we kick off
Speaker 1: this edition of Kangaroo Court?
Speaker 20: You're telling the story but oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I know the story yours. Yeah, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: do a fun one that's not well related. But guys,
Speaker 1: please think up your Kangaroo Court stories right now, and
Speaker 1: I'll have to browse through the channel to read for
Speaker 1: people who aren't here before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of killing servers, I just mentioned how.
Speaker 1: You have to speak up. Maybe we can barely hear you. Merk.
Speaker 2: Let me flutter around with.
Speaker 1: All good all good, Yeah, try that to go for.
Speaker 2: It all right. Yeah. I was just saying that as
Speaker 2: a player base are killing Epoch. Bye. I want to
Speaker 2: run a quick question.
Speaker 3: All the people who trained, indeed one did a half
Speaker 3: two months of Epoch, how much money did you drop
Speaker 3: on the cash shop and in a couple of days
Speaker 3: that did much money.
Speaker 1: It's a fair question. I'm guilty. I'll throw myself under
Speaker 1: the bus. I spent zero dollars on the Epoch store,
Speaker 1: even though I gushed and gushed and gushed about it.
Speaker 1: I looked at the store, and I know it's about support.
Speaker 1: I looked at the store. There was nothing there I
Speaker 1: really wanted, so I never bought anything. And I sort
Speaker 1: of said, I actually said to the guys when they
Speaker 1: release a roadmap, I will buy something off the Epoch store.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the holding pattern that I've been in.
Speaker 1: But then I am guilty. I fucking dove in on
Speaker 1: Bronze Beard and I was a day one purchaser. So like,
Speaker 1: I spent money on the store on day one, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure a fucking squillion other people did as well.
Speaker 1: And that's the point. So you're very fair to call
Speaker 1: people like me out for this, Merkshield, I readily accept
Speaker 1: all your fucking stones and barbs over this one. I
Speaker 1: think it's it's more than fair to call, like, you know,
Speaker 1: if you wanted Epoch to live, maybe you should have
Speaker 1: thrown some money behind it. That that's very fair to say.
Speaker 1: Please don't don't let me stop, you go nuts, call
Speaker 1: me you can't Mark do it?
Speaker 2: Do it?
Speaker 3: I think I hear a bunch of cuts from that, because, uh,
Speaker 3: what in the center are we giving.
Speaker 23: The ascension if in two days of their it's but
Speaker 23: it's more what even Epoch started puts.
Speaker 10: How do you know that the cashier spending on the
Speaker 10: Epoch shop is not going towards developing Bronze spirit since
Speaker 10: it's the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't. We don't know how it's done.
Speaker 18: I think I think the whole season desisting is made
Speaker 18: people like Josh says, just hold back just to see
Speaker 18: what Epok is doing.
Speaker 20: Because I'm with him. If they do release a roadmap
Speaker 20: of where it's going.
Speaker 18: I would be happy to just spend some money in
Speaker 18: the shop for amount or whatever like that, but I
Speaker 18: want to I want to make sure it's going to
Speaker 18: be there till Lizzard give us what we want.
Speaker 6: I just want to know how much money Brian's Beers
Speaker 6: made in the last forty eight.
Speaker 1: Hours, all the ridiculous, all the money. I fucking bet.
Speaker 5: You imagine how much it's made over the last year.
Speaker 2: And a half.
Speaker 20: What did you spend, Josh?
Speaker 1: What was that thing I spent? What is it that
Speaker 1: the I bought? So I bought the starter pack and
Speaker 1: a few professions, So I spent some money. I fucking
Speaker 1: dropped a hundred bucks. You know, that's fucking stupid money.
Speaker 20: And I've spent forty. So there's one hundred and forty
Speaker 20: with two people.
Speaker 10: First day there you go, oh yeah.
Speaker 20: It's crazy.
Speaker 9: I gave the money the Epoch. I'm just saying, no,
Speaker 9: then there's nothing.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong to give the money to Epoch. But
Speaker 1: like Epoch is in such a weird spot right now,
Speaker 1: Like I said, like at this point, we said last
Speaker 1: week on the show to address the itchier players on Epoch,
Speaker 1: a roadmap like does need to be dropped. I had
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago I was you know, he's
Speaker 1: sitting here saying to Vestige, mate, it's all fine, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, just play the game and have fun. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't need to be told about a roadmap, like
Speaker 1: it's all good. And then last week I said, all right,
Speaker 1: I might not need to be told about a roadmap,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of people that do or they're
Speaker 1: going to quit. And this server is starting to be
Speaker 1: bleed players, and these guys need to realize that and
Speaker 1: release the roadmap now because most REMO players are pretty fickle.
Speaker 1: And now we're here a week later, still with no
Speaker 1: roadmap and Bronze Bee it out and it does start like,
Speaker 1: are you trying to kill EPOC on purpose? Like what
Speaker 1: is going on? Because if we're now, then you know,
Speaker 1: recording next week and the week after and the week
Speaker 1: after that, and there's no roadmap for EPOCH, Like it
Speaker 1: is like, what the fuck is going on? At that point?
Speaker 1: I've been chill to now, but I'm starting to, you know,
Speaker 1: grab the collar and go, oh, boys, like what the
Speaker 1: fuck are you doing?
Speaker 13: I think they're not holding it back? What are the
Speaker 13: answers they don't have?
Speaker 19: They don't have a timeline because they don't have a
Speaker 19: depth case because because they didn't plan undeveloping this, they
Speaker 19: planned on just hosting.
Speaker 18: For the guys who aren't playing Bronsbeard or Methew and
Speaker 18: or whatever. If Epoch doesn't give you a roadmap and
Speaker 18: it's obviously looks like it's going to be on its
Speaker 18: way out.
Speaker 20: What will you do from there?
Speaker 5: Just not playing? I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Battlefield's coming out Voodoo Hey, badfood is I'm all for it.
Speaker 20: You guys are playing on playing?
Speaker 13: Yeah, what's coming out to looks decent?
Speaker 19: Uh?
Speaker 13: The fellowship just like dungeons, especially like dungeons, like wild dungeons.
Speaker 1: Okay, in all seriousness though, like if you do happen
Speaker 1: to be a Battlefield player, yell out in the countdown
Speaker 1: discord because I think there's a few of us that
Speaker 1: will be giving it a go.
Speaker 20: Let's get a squad together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: Do you play Hell Diverse?
Speaker 1: I did when it came out when it was the rage,
Speaker 1: but I got over it pretty quickly. My wife loved it.
Speaker 2: It's fun.
Speaker 1: It was very funny showing my wife Starship Troopers after
Speaker 1: she'd done the Hell Divers thing because she'd never seen
Speaker 1: Starship Troopers and yeah, yeah, yeah, and then fucking and
Speaker 1: then we watched the movie and she's like, hang on,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, where do you fuck? Where the
Speaker 1: fuck do you think all the inspiration came from?
Speaker 10: Good that you're doing your part.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and she started recognizing all the lines and
Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, it's funny, but yes, I'll probably
Speaker 1: give Battlefield a quick squeeze as well. I think Ubi
Speaker 1: and nephew Justin will be playing, Voodoo will be playing Best.
Speaker 1: Did your a Battlefield enjoy run?
Speaker 13: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I still I still play Battlefield three, still pull that
Speaker 6: up every now and then again.
Speaker 13: So did you play?
Speaker 20: Did you play B six Beta?
Speaker 9: Then?
Speaker 13: I did?
Speaker 6: I really enjoyed it?
Speaker 20: Okay, Yeah, cool?
Speaker 6: It hit a lot of the spots that I think
Speaker 6: they missed the last couple of times. So I'm very
Speaker 6: much excited for it to see how it's going to go.
Speaker 6: And they've been very receptive of the feedback that's been
Speaker 6: happening with that, so I'm super excited to see what
Speaker 6: the finished product is going to be.
Speaker 1: But back to Voodoo's point, and I think this is
Speaker 1: what he's getting on and what it's fair to say
Speaker 1: for guys like Las, guys like Yak. You know, lads,
Speaker 1: you just said it, but I'll just have to say
Speaker 1: it again, like if for some reason, regrettably Epoch were
Speaker 1: to just go the way at the Dodo when they
Speaker 1: don't release the roadmap and they just let it die
Speaker 1: for whatever fucking god unknown reason, you would then not
Speaker 1: jump to Bronze Beard just for something to play. You
Speaker 1: just take a break from Wow.
Speaker 19: Yeah, I might give Charlo a shot or check it out, right,
Speaker 19: I might just play a battlefield.
Speaker 13: I probably Playattlefield, no matter what.
Speaker 1: Right you can thank for us in Battlefield, it'll be great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't. I don't have to always be playing Wow,
Speaker 6: you know, and sometimes taking breaks from Wow makes me
Speaker 6: want to play Wow more. So it's okay if I
Speaker 6: take a break before.
Speaker 20: Well, have you heard of a game called Rust?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't like I don't like hard drugs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't like playing video games with meth heads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 6: League of Legends.
Speaker 1: I'll give a quick shout out while we're doing a
Speaker 1: very small tangent. I know everyone knows about it already,
Speaker 1: and it got all the fucking applause that it deserved.
Speaker 1: But like, if you do like RPGs or you know JRPGs,
Speaker 1: if you haven't played Expedition thirty three, oh my fucking god, play.
Speaker 10: It it's it's I actually played it. I thought it
Speaker 10: was pretty good, but like after act two, I feel
Speaker 10: like it got very stale. I just I really enjoyed
Speaker 10: it was very It was just very save me it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't change much. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I thought the.
Speaker 1: Story was very, very, very good, even if it is
Speaker 1: just a fucking massive homage to Final Fantasy ten.
Speaker 10: But the story was super cool. It was just that
Speaker 10: the game, please got it got a little bit stale
Speaker 10: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, fair enough, I know, I really enjoyed it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: if you like JRPGs, like you know, Final Fantasy seven
Speaker 1: through ten, all that shit, like, please play Expedition thirty three.
Speaker 1: But anyway, all right, guys, back to well unless anyone
Speaker 1: has anyone else got any random game recommendations for the
Speaker 1: Countdown crew if they're doing other shit.
Speaker 16: You have a few Sieve fans in here, don't we?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sure?
Speaker 16: Did you like the fucking new one?
Speaker 8: Seven?
Speaker 1: Seven? Sorry?
Speaker 13: Seven six?
Speaker 2: What is it up to?
Speaker 16: I think it's I.
Speaker 1: Think it's seven.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of I've not played it, but
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of streams of it.
Speaker 16: Yeah, don't waste your time.
Speaker 1: But they say that about every sieve when it comes out,
Speaker 1: isn't it then it gets good later in the life cycle.
Speaker 16: I don't know a lot of them. I felt like
Speaker 16: I enjoyed straight away, but this one definitely not right.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, has anyone dicked around with Smite Priest on
Speaker 1: Bronzebeard or not? No, not yet? That's okay, all right, Well, look,
Speaker 1: let's start to wind this one up. Guys, we're two
Speaker 1: and a half hours in. I will just say, if
Speaker 1: we didn't really say it, I should have said this
Speaker 1: at the top. If for some reason you do want
Speaker 1: to play with the Countdown crew on Ascension Bronze Beard,
Speaker 1: we are playing on the Malfurian server. A lot of
Speaker 1: people were fucking that up and rolling on Bronze Beard,
Speaker 1: but we're on the second the overflow server that they
Speaker 1: created Malfurian. There is no doubt that they will combine
Speaker 1: those pretty fucking quickly, so it won't matter in the
Speaker 1: long run. But that's just where we are for now.
Speaker 1: So come and join the guild, just, you know, try
Speaker 1: and find it.
Speaker 2: You have to.
Speaker 1: You can't slash who, so you'll have to find us
Speaker 1: through the discord and ask for an invite. We're trying
Speaker 1: to get as many people in as we can. Guys,
Speaker 1: it's just like I said something, we're dicking around with.
Speaker 1: Anyone got any final thoughts on Bronze Beard. I know
Speaker 1: we've kind of been a bit all over the place
Speaker 1: this one. But anyone want to say anything before we
Speaker 1: wind this one up that they really feel needs to
Speaker 1: be said.
Speaker 5: I have a kangaroo court.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, we forgot to do kangaroo court. Yes, please go.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a bit of a long one.
Speaker 1: No, even better, I'll do it.
Speaker 10: Yeah. So, I Snacks stand before you to appeal unjust
Speaker 10: sentencing kangaroos.
Speaker 1: Lodging of an appeal. It's been done within twenty eight
Speaker 1: days of the charge, I believe, so I'll allow it.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think so, Ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
Speaker 10: I stand before you today to appeal a great miscarriage
Speaker 10: of justice. I have been vilified by this court, sentenced
Speaker 10: for a crime I don't think I have committed, and
Speaker 10: I have been the victim of slander, libel, and my
Speaker 10: good name has been dragged through the mud.
Speaker 1: Go on.
Speaker 10: I was not even allowed to defend myself while I
Speaker 10: was sentenced nor were my legal counsel even informed of
Speaker 10: my sentence?
Speaker 1: Would you like to remind us what your crime and sentence.
Speaker 10: Was the lack of wind fury in a certain razor
Speaker 10: fundam m Hm. Murkshield was there, he's a witness. But
Speaker 10: I would say, after having confirmed with my legal counsel
Speaker 10: the honorable and most esteemed of the sweat lords, hideous
Speaker 10: John and in Shocks, as well as, of course the
Speaker 10: Great Elements themselves as an honorable shaman, and I cannot
Speaker 10: be guilty of a crime when no crime has been committed. Okay, well,
Speaker 10: for I ask you, is a man not in charge
Speaker 10: of his own destiny? Is a gamer not obligated to
Speaker 10: improve his own deeps?
Speaker 7: Would not.
Speaker 10: Or should not a competent melee dps inquire as to
Speaker 10: the whereabouts of the wind fury? For, as my most
Speaker 10: wise and competent legal counsel have informed me, is winter
Speaker 10: a privilege not a right? Is it not by the
Speaker 10: grace of the Elements that such powerful tools are bequeathed
Speaker 10: to those that are worthy? So I asked you, ladies
Speaker 10: and gentlemen of the jury. Is it not the mealies
Speaker 10: that are at fault?
Speaker 1: So I see you Let me know, this is a
Speaker 1: fantastic speech. You let me know when you're done, sir,
Speaker 1: and I'll jump in.
Speaker 10: I arrest my case.
Speaker 1: That was a right pretty speech, sir. I'm tended to
Speaker 1: move on to But I ask you, what is a contract? Okay?
Speaker 1: So you're saying to the cord that it is not
Speaker 1: a crime upon the caster to not cast a spell,
Speaker 1: but on the recipient of the spells effect to ask
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 10: Correct?
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay?
Speaker 8: Can I ask something?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Can Snacks know the wind fury totem spell? And he's
Speaker 8: just feigning that, you know, they didn't get it because
Speaker 8: they didn't ask, but he actually didn't know it.
Speaker 1: Had you trained it?
Speaker 13: I had it?
Speaker 10: I had it on my bart Okay, all right, all right, okay,
Speaker 10: they got it for the last few packs.
Speaker 8: So just a selfish shaman.
Speaker 1: Then what were you dropping instead we dropping a different totem?
Speaker 1: Or does no totem at all?
Speaker 5: No totem?
Speaker 1: Oh had man, man, that's not looking good for you.
Speaker 9: I say so was in defense as well as an
Speaker 9: assassination rogue who has to run poisons. I told a
Speaker 9: shaman the other day to stop robbing wind theory because
Speaker 9: it was benefiting No one in the party.
Speaker 13: My point, my favorite was like Snacks is a better
Speaker 13: lawyer than he was a shaman.
Speaker 1: Ah, it does, it does fair. So let me see here.
Speaker 1: You're presuming the Malay players have the intellectual wherewithal to
Speaker 1: check what buffs they're currently benefiting from.
Speaker 10: Yes, well, I mean that.
Speaker 1: Seems to be painting the Malay players with a rather
Speaker 1: broad bush brush, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Do you have.
Speaker 10: That they should?
Speaker 13: I think.
Speaker 19: Melee players, but a limited capacity for reason knowl to
Speaker 19: take care of them.
Speaker 1: This is where I'm pointing at the Malay players. This
Speaker 1: is where I'm pointing at the Malay players, going like
Speaker 1: this is the classic. If those if those players could read,
Speaker 1: they'd be very upset right now.
Speaker 10: They could counter buffs, they'd be very upset. Yeah, because
Speaker 10: that's the thing. None of them even asked for it
Speaker 10: until I said, oh I forgot to do this thing,
Speaker 10: but I think it should be there. The responsibility, Oh
Speaker 10: this is an interesting one.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw this open to the jury. Guys, talk
Speaker 1: amongst yourselves. Who's in the wrong here, the shaman who
Speaker 1: sits on his arse and doesn't drop the totem or
Speaker 1: the Malay for not yelling at him to do so.
Speaker 8: But what was the original accusation that he didn't give
Speaker 8: them win.
Speaker 1: Fury, But they went a whole dungeon with him not
Speaker 1: dropping wind fury until the very end.
Speaker 17: He didn't.
Speaker 8: He did do that though, right, You did have the
Speaker 8: dungeon with the injury, so you eventually started dropping it eventually.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I know I know this, Like, okay, so.
Speaker 8: You went on. You went on a character arc. So
Speaker 8: I think you're not guilty now.
Speaker 2: As a witness, but you.
Speaker 8: Gotta you gotta scrap this attitude about it. You gotta
Speaker 8: be a generous shaman man. You can't people come to
Speaker 8: you for wind fury only that's like literally the only
Speaker 8: reason that your class exist. Get what the fucking program?
Speaker 8: Start dropping wind fury without.
Speaker 1: Being asked, Oh god you we're gonna say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so with it.
Speaker 3: I have to agree with Stacks that a little a
Speaker 3: damning piece of evidence was that the too Malie was
Speaker 3: two Hundon roams.
Speaker 1: That is a damning piece of evidence. And they had
Speaker 1: poisons on their weapons.
Speaker 5: I didn't I believe your honor, you know what.
Speaker 1: I think that's going to seal it. Actually, if there
Speaker 1: were two rogues in the in the party, who I
Speaker 1: have zero fucking doubt had poisons on and don't have
Speaker 1: the fucking wherewithal to not apply their poisons so that
Speaker 1: they can benefit from win fury. I reckon, I reckon.
Speaker 1: He's in the clear here, because it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: how can you have a crime without a victim?
Speaker 10: Exactly?
Speaker 1: I rule in Snacks's favor. Fuck it. We're were sending
Speaker 1: the previous charge, wiping it off his record, and sir,
Speaker 1: you can apply for costs at the next day.
Speaker 10: Oh likely, all right, I will have the twenty gold
Speaker 10: from the guild bank. Yes, that left.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he emoji replied to me the other
Speaker 1: day when I told him, go fuck yourself. We sent
Speaker 1: you back your money, you fucking prick.
Speaker 10: So that's where I was sending my what's the word
Speaker 10: in English for for damages? Is that the one?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: The damages? All right, so piece as well.
Speaker 2: We had it.
Speaker 1: Actually we hadn't the final chapter, hopefully if you will
Speaker 1: chapter in the story of the guy that we kicked
Speaker 1: from the guild where he I think it was easy
Speaker 1: who He was running an alt on epoch and in
Speaker 1: a low level dungeon, and he came across a person
Speaker 1: who was like, oh, hey, you're in countdown. Have you
Speaker 1: heard of player X who we kicked from the guild?
Speaker 1: And Easy was like, oh god, here we go. It's him,
Speaker 1: isn't it? Wait, Easy, are you here? No, that's a right,
Speaker 1: I'll tell the story. So he's sort of rather than
Speaker 1: engaging and going yeah, I know that guy, he just
Speaker 1: played dumb and went like no, no, I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about it. I'm just kind of chilling in the guild.
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh, countdown, Shit, they kicked this guy
Speaker 1: for depositing into the guild bank. He's still trying to
Speaker 1: fucking like, you know, a week or two later, go
Speaker 1: after the guild. These guys, it's like the guys from
Speaker 1: the world First Rate killed. They won't let go. They're
Speaker 1: very aggrieved people who avengeful nerd is a is a
Speaker 1: relentless nerd. I guess right.
Speaker 6: I would fury like a nerd scorn exactly exactly.
Speaker 10: But since I have now been vindicated in the court,
Speaker 10: I will have tok out and sleep soundly knowing that
Speaker 10: my name is cleared.
Speaker 6: Very good, very good.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you for that, mate. Does anyone else
Speaker 1: have any kangaroo courts? From day one of bronze beard
Speaker 1: or anything on Epoch.
Speaker 21: Well you on kangaroo Oh, I'm.
Speaker 1: Always in front of kangaroo court, That's true.
Speaker 13: Someone in gild looking for a chance.
Speaker 1: What did I do this time, Lazarus started, is that
Speaker 1: I can. I can give them a crusader, Lazarus, did
Speaker 1: you want to read your fucking charge against me in
Speaker 1: kangaroo court? Do you want to go nuts?
Speaker 13: I want to pretty over the top here.
Speaker 1: I'll read it. I'll read it with the fire and armbstone.
Speaker 5: Here we go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lazarus, I'm nominating Josh for charges of server hopping,
Speaker 1: rug pulling, and abandoning the people he tricked into playing
Speaker 1: Epoch and then jumping ship to Ascension Reborns single handedly
Speaker 1: ruined Alkazan's EBox experience, which I mean quite frankly. All
Speaker 1: I can do is plead guilty. I think at this point,
Speaker 1: I think that's clear guilty. At the first appearance for
Speaker 1: the maximum discount around r br D, very good. Poor alccanne.
Speaker 1: I do feel bad for him. He's just gotten the
Speaker 1: sixty and he's ready to rock, and then all this
Speaker 1: shit started happening. But like we say, guys, I can't
Speaker 1: I can't emphasize this enough. If you want to raid
Speaker 1: on Epoch, if they announce a fucking roadmap, we will
Speaker 1: be raiding there. So don't feel like your time has
Speaker 1: been wasted. It's still fucking legit, all right, So guys,
Speaker 1: can I.
Speaker 21: Can I can I jump in because this was I
Speaker 21: can't go across on behalf.
Speaker 1: Of my name, so please, uh.
Speaker 21: I would just like to explain because I did a
Speaker 21: little rant today or yesterday.
Speaker 2: I don't remember.
Speaker 21: Saying that I just hated Bronze Beard, which I well,
Speaker 21: I tackally do because paid to win a ship. But
Speaker 21: imagine being me and finally get into sixty I worked
Speaker 21: like one hundred and twenty percent, So like, yeah, fuck yeah,
Speaker 21: I'm gonna play this weekend. I'm gonna do a lot
Speaker 21: of dungeons and I'm gonna have a lot of fun.
Speaker 21: And then last night I was alone. There was like
Speaker 21: zero people. There are a few people online leveling. There
Speaker 21: were like nine hundred players on the server. Getting a
Speaker 21: group was just not possible. I got one group that
Speaker 21: was so bad that I can't even explain it that
Speaker 21: they couldn't even kill barn.
Speaker 1: Parents, tough parents, a tough pause.
Speaker 21: It's not that hard.
Speaker 1: I haven't done it yet. I just go by what
Speaker 1: the others have said.
Speaker 21: But I was pissed as shit.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, mate, so you can you can.
Speaker 1: Now's your time out to give me all the shit
Speaker 1: that I deserve for also playing on Bronze Beard.
Speaker 8: I deserve it.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying not to be too fastiatious lay into
Speaker 1: me now.
Speaker 21: I mean, I mean, I get why you're playing it,
Speaker 21: I really do. I mean you're doing it because of countdown,
Speaker 21: and I get that. So it's I don't play. It's fine.
Speaker 21: But I've been having a lot of fun tonight. We
Speaker 21: got through a whole pard and I've been like spamming
Speaker 21: like Stratton now for like three hours, I think, So
Speaker 21: I'm loving life.
Speaker 1: I want those begs to fill. I told you guys,
Speaker 1: I rolled my Warlock on Epoch for PvP purposes, like
Speaker 1: primarily that's what I wanted to do. You guys know
Speaker 1: I'm not that much of a radar, but I'll raid
Speaker 1: with you guys, but I want a PvP and that's
Speaker 1: why I'm just like waiting for these battlegrounds to fill up.
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, like, I want my ten D
Speaker 1: ten wars on goalches, where the fuck is everyone? And
Speaker 1: I keep, like I said, you know, I can't play
Speaker 1: an OCA Primes, but I'll play in NA Primetime. And
Speaker 1: I keep logging on, you know, every day the last week,
Speaker 1: and I keep getting these six v six's and seventy
Speaker 1: sevens and I'm like, no, no, no, come on, this isn't
Speaker 1: wars on Golch Like I want a ten B ten
Speaker 1: So hopefully that happens at some point. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I just want a PBP on my little lock.
Speaker 19: But anyway, Josh, yeah, can I give you some some
Speaker 19: crap sure tongue and cheap. It's just like the people
Speaker 19: who can't find a dungeon grip? Have you picked the
Speaker 19: server and been like, hey a lions, I play a
Speaker 19: lion soup. I'll get on and play against you in BG.
Speaker 1: I could do that.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: The one thing that the Beg's have though, is you
Speaker 1: can just randomly cute so so like you know, if
Speaker 1: if it's like if you had RDF in the game
Speaker 1: and no one's queuing for RDF and then you do
Speaker 1: the slash one, like fucking healers, please queue RDF like
Speaker 1: you try and prompt some engagement there, but like I
Speaker 1: guess you could you know, slash one, slash two, Hey
Speaker 1: Tay sixty No, no, no, no, it's fair though it's.
Speaker 19: Been lot hair, but like we would we would do it,
Speaker 19: like I mean serious, like just wanted if you've clean
Speaker 19: the desk with everyone, people get on especially for you,
Speaker 19: like even like you know a lot of lines players
Speaker 19: in the guild.
Speaker 1: Oh up, I said, once we had about thirty sixties,
Speaker 1: I would love to do a ten B ten countdown
Speaker 1: Hoarde Alliance PG. That would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: So we should, Yeah, we should try and piece that
Speaker 1: together for sure? What was I going to say? Guys?
Speaker 19: Uh?
Speaker 1: Oh, the Marcus, the real quick the Marcus count kangaroo
Speaker 1: cord isn't that big of a thing. Basically, like I said,
Speaker 1: we went out to drinks and dinner the other night.
Speaker 1: Hideous John decided to join us. He was in town
Speaker 1: and fucking he just did the thing. Sorry, hang on,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna need someone. Where are we anyway? Is
Speaker 1: that you do?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Basically, what we were supposed to be a dinner at
Speaker 1: six Marcus. We will get there and we're like where
Speaker 1: are you mate, and he goes, oh, I'm just getting
Speaker 1: on the train. I'll be about an hour off, so
Speaker 1: he was going to be like an hour eight when
Speaker 1: we the previous message from him was like, oh, I'll
Speaker 1: be there on time and easily. So basically Voodoo had
Speaker 1: to order him an Uber and he didn't even have
Speaker 1: Uber on his phone, and we're like, who doesn't have
Speaker 1: Uber on their phone in twenty twenty five, So Voodoo
Speaker 1: paid for an Uber for Marcus to get to dinner
Speaker 1: with us, and we just gave him shit. And anyway,
Speaker 1: that's kangaroo court for sure for Marcus for being a bookhead.
Speaker 1: But I think that's about it, guys. I am going
Speaker 1: to wind it up here because I do want to
Speaker 1: play Bronze bit as well. I've not really been playing
Speaker 1: this whole time. I was slightly dicking around with professions
Speaker 1: during that recording, but not really and I want to
Speaker 1: run some dungeons with you guys and have a bit
Speaker 1: of fun. So thank you so much to everyone, and
Speaker 1: we'll be back soon discussing more of this stuff. And
Speaker 1: thanks guys. I'll obviously stick around in voice chat, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to end the recording here. Thanks everyone, and
Speaker 1: that's the episode for today. Everyone. Thanks so much for
Speaker 1: listening to all of that. I want to thank the
Speaker 1: following amazing patrons who make all of this possible. I
Speaker 1: would not be doing the show if it wasn't for
Speaker 1: the contributions of these phenomenal people. Flozy, b Vucka, Evan Croxford,
Speaker 1: Odd k honey Bee, Wintersgate, Zorn, Grimoire, plays Are the
Speaker 1: Mighty Doloman, Jaron h Rengo, Garra vac Simile. Thank you,
Speaker 1: so so so, so so so much, you beautiful, beautiful people,
Speaker 1: and to all the five dollar, two dollars one dollar
Speaker 1: patrons as well. Guys, that's the episode for today. Go
Speaker 1: out there, go forth, play your private servers, go have fun,
Speaker 1: collect your ideas for feedback. You know that we can
Speaker 1: eventually send in and through this show to Blizzard's year
Speaker 1: holes to say what we like and what we don't
Speaker 1: like with the potential classic plus coming down the pipeline,
Speaker 1: and I will see you all in the next episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much everyone.
Speaker 10: Asser