Speaker 1: It's a nice size. I'm going easy Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, let's keep rolling here. We're talking about and
Speaker 2: we learned a lot last hour. In my opinion from
Speaker 2: Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe, I spent a lot
Speaker 2: of time today investigating this. I started off with a
Speaker 2: fairly minimal knowledge of this signal, so called signal APP.
Speaker 2: I understand it much better now, and I suspect some
Speaker 2: of you, having listened to Hiawatha Bray, understand that must
Speaker 2: much better. The consequence of our conversation with Hiawatha is
Speaker 2: that there is indeed a better app, a military type
Speaker 2: app that could be used, from a company called Greenhill Software.
Speaker 2: I bet you that maybe we will hear a little
Speaker 2: bit more about Greenhill Software in the coming days. I
Speaker 2: don't think that Donald Trump is going to fire anyone
Speaker 2: as a result of this, but it was obviously a mistake.
Speaker 2: And there were also were some answers which were less
Speaker 2: than straightforward from members of the president's team in front
Speaker 2: of congressional hearings this week. And there were also some
Speaker 2: statements that the Defense Secretary made which I think we're
Speaker 2: less than forthcoming. Do I think anyone has purchaed themselves.
Speaker 2: I don't think you got to that point. I think
Speaker 2: the language was pretty careful, very careful, which is always
Speaker 2: a sign that someone is not being as forthcoming as
Speaker 2: they should be. The only lines I have opened right
Speaker 2: now is two at six, one, seven, nine, three, one,
Speaker 2: ten thirty. That will get you right through. Let's keep
Speaker 2: going here. I'm going to go next to Joeanne is
Speaker 2: in Waltham, Joanne, next to Nights.
Speaker 3: I welcome, hy Dan. How you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine tonight so far, joe in. But yeah,
Speaker 2: last night wild, Yeah it was. I was. I thought
Speaker 2: wrestled three or something, but that's okay.
Speaker 3: Well I was gonna call last night, but you were busy,
Speaker 3: So tonight's good. I called early. Uh yeah, I wrote
Speaker 3: stuff to Yeah, Audrey was good, but I disagree. No
Speaker 3: one should be fired. Okay, you have a.
Speaker 2: Right to that point of view. How'd you like Hiawatha Bray?
Speaker 3: Yeah I just caught the tail end. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 3: caught the tail end. But when I heard you were
Speaker 3: talking about this, I said, oh good, and Patty she
Speaker 3: was very good. She's sweet, she's sweet.
Speaker 2: So you don't you don't think there you think this
Speaker 2: is now much ado but nothing I yeah, okay, well
Speaker 2: I disagree with you retrospect. Should have they been on
Speaker 2: a more secure app in your opinion?
Speaker 3: Well, of course, of course, yeah, somebody did screw up.
Speaker 3: I kind of agreed with you. Whoever set up the
Speaker 3: call his AID or you know, maybe let that one go.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, I'm sure that Walls will be
Speaker 2: somewhat protective of the AID. I just think it was sloppy.
Speaker 2: Uh and thank good thank goodness that that maybe they
Speaker 2: learned a lesson in a situation where there was no
Speaker 2: harm done. If a plane was shot down, that would
Speaker 2: been a whole different situation. So yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: don't want to I've said no harm, no foul, that's true.
Speaker 2: But I do think that they need to get their
Speaker 2: act together because next next time there could be some
Speaker 2: harm and they would be a foul.
Speaker 3: Where I disagree with you. You said, you know, they
Speaker 3: should admit they made a mistake. Has any Democrat ever
Speaker 3: said they made a mistake in the past thirty years
Speaker 3: that you can think of?
Speaker 2: Well, I suspect some have somewhere, but I don't think
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, if they wanted to distinguish themselves from
Speaker 2: the loyal opposition has to follow in the way that
Speaker 2: you do it.
Speaker 3: Levels Yeah, well, maybe there's nothing.
Speaker 2: There's nothing more disarming in my experience, in my life
Speaker 2: when you goof up and you make a mistake and
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be a mistake. Is not doing
Speaker 2: something intentionally. A mistake is making a mistake. Your motives
Speaker 2: were correct, but you know you're meant to do something,
Speaker 2: you didn't do it well, or you rushed or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we're all human. What's wrong with saying I find
Speaker 2: it's the most disarming thing in the world. I mean,
Speaker 2: when my wife is mad at me over something, if
Speaker 2: I I guess, say, you know what, I messed up. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I got the wrong thing at the store. When we
Speaker 2: go back, I'll go back and change it, and invariable
Speaker 2: to say no, get it next time. Okay, thank you
Speaker 2: very much, We're done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You diffuse the situation often. And I think that hag
Speaker 2: Seth is a strong willed guy, similar in personality to
Speaker 2: President Trump. And when I saw him, I think he
Speaker 2: was in Hawaii, was saying there was no battle plans,
Speaker 2: there was no this, there was no that, there were
Speaker 2: no roots. He probably was technically correct, but the fact
Speaker 2: of the matter is there was a lot of information
Speaker 2: which has come out which never should have come out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's And has any Democrat ever
Speaker 3: been fired for doing something wrong? All Well is still
Speaker 3: in there sleeping with a Chinese spy for four years?
Speaker 3: He's still there.
Speaker 2: Yes he is, Yes he is. But again, the voters
Speaker 2: in his district have had a chance to churn him out.
Speaker 2: So that would be the argument there. Look, I think
Speaker 2: this is the old meat. What about is an argument?
Speaker 2: And what about the other guys. Let's hope well that
Speaker 2: they all can take their game up as opposed to
Speaker 2: taking their game down. Right, And whoever's in charge is
Speaker 2: in charge of protecting you and me. And I don't
Speaker 2: care if it's a Democrat president or a Republican president.
Speaker 2: I want them to do the best job possible. Period.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: All right, we're in agreement.
Speaker 3: And just the last thing, you know, the Warren and
Speaker 3: all the Democrats, they're so worried about our security. They well,
Speaker 3: they weren't worried when they had the borders wide open.
Speaker 2: No, And I think that's that is not a what
Speaker 2: about is and that that's an accurate observation with which
Speaker 2: I am happy to join you.
Speaker 3: Okay, very good, thanks you talk Okay, take care, Thank
Speaker 3: you byma. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Six months seven two five four to ten thirty one
Speaker 2: line there, six months seven nine three one ten thirty
Speaker 2: one line there. This is a story that has been
Speaker 2: a dominant story all week. It's not going away. This
Speaker 2: might be the last night that we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about it. Tomorrow night, as a matter of fact, we
Speaker 2: are going to talk about how you can lower energy
Speaker 2: prices here in Massachusetts, how you yourself can lower your
Speaker 2: energy prices at nine o'clock, and we're also going to
Speaker 2: talk at ten o'clock tomorrow night with a guest about
Speaker 2: naps and sleep and which is better for you. Are
Speaker 2: NAP's good or do naps during the day prevent you
Speaker 2: from getting a good night's sleep, And will of course
Speaker 2: have the twentieth hour tomorrow night as well. So this
Speaker 2: is probably the last time this week we will talk
Speaker 2: about the signal app gait. If you will, we add
Speaker 2: the word gate to everything. Uh So, if you want
Speaker 2: to weigh in on this one, get get to the
Speaker 2: phone right now and we'll be back on nightside with
Speaker 2: more phone calls right after this on a Thursday night
Speaker 2: edition of Nightside, and the Red Sox started off with
Speaker 2: the right foot today they won. They won, They're undefeated.
Speaker 2: Coming back right after the break.
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Back to the phones we go. Let's go next to
Speaker 2: Neil in Saugus. Neil, you were next on Nightside. Welcome.
Speaker 4: How you doing Dan.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine. I hope you're doing well too. The
Speaker 2: right ahead.
Speaker 4: I'm all right. I have heard about all this, and
Speaker 4: of course I'm not sure. I've heard a couple of things,
Speaker 4: and I don't know if there's a way to fact
Speaker 4: check these things. But I heard that there's a US
Speaker 4: special end voice. Steve Wickoff was in Russia, Yes he was,
Speaker 4: and then he and they said I heard two different things.
Speaker 4: One they said he didn't have his phone in Russia,
Speaker 4: and then I heard a different thing saying he did
Speaker 4: have his phone, but he didn't use the signal apps.
Speaker 2: So you know, I think what I heard was a
Speaker 2: little different was that he did not have the phone
Speaker 2: on he was in I think he was in meetings
Speaker 2: at the Kremlin with with Putin, and that the phone
Speaker 2: was turned off. Now again, I'm not enough of an
Speaker 2: expert to know. First of all, I don't think that
Speaker 2: the Russians could have hacked from from the people I
Speaker 2: talked to today that this this app called Signal cannot
Speaker 2: be hacked the way it works. And again I'll try
Speaker 2: to explain it as simply as possible. Is if I
Speaker 2: have it on my phone and you have it on
Speaker 2: your phone, and we're friends, you're in my You're in
Speaker 2: my my phone list, I can basically uh contact you
Speaker 2: because only because you're in my phone list. Okay, I
Speaker 2: can't call someone who's not in my phone list. You
Speaker 2: have to be a member of Signal number one both
Speaker 2: of you, and you have to be in the other
Speaker 2: person's phone list if you if you get my.
Speaker 4: Drift, okay, yeah, and I well, let me let me.
Speaker 2: Finish, Let me finish. If I make a mistake, please
Speaker 2: help me. So I want to have either a zoom
Speaker 2: call with you, or I want to have a phone
Speaker 2: call with you, or I want to set up a
Speaker 2: text chain with you. So all of a sudden, I say, Neil,
Speaker 2: you on you. I send you a text Neil, are
Speaker 2: you available? You send me a text back that says, yeah,
Speaker 2: what's up? Now you know what you wrote? To me. Uh,
Speaker 2: and when it comes to me, I see what you
Speaker 2: wrote to me. But if anybody, anybody intercepted or attempted
Speaker 2: to hack into that communication, they would only see an
Speaker 2: encrypted message. So the only people who know what is
Speaker 2: what is written there is you wrote and what I
Speaker 2: read or what I wrote and when you read. Okay.
Speaker 2: So even if Wicked had his phone on, if he
Speaker 2: had had his phone on and somehow Putin grabbed the
Speaker 2: phone from him, theoretically he got look at Wickens phone
Speaker 2: and say, oh, you're talking Yemen, but he never had
Speaker 2: the phone.
Speaker 4: Well, well, a couple of other things. So number one,
Speaker 4: the US Department of Defense had put out something. They're
Speaker 4: saying that signal is not a secure app and not
Speaker 4: to use it for any top secret kind of stuff
Speaker 4: that's been in the news. But the other thing is
Speaker 4: is the hoodie Uh you know the rebels there, Yeah,
Speaker 4: that we went after and we should have, which was good.
Speaker 4: They are funded by Iran and Russia, so there would
Speaker 4: be an interest if you know. It's just I'm just.
Speaker 2: I've never heard them. But let me say this, I've
Speaker 2: never heard that they're funded by Russia. I have heard
Speaker 2: that they are funded by Iran, and I did see definitely, Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 2: and I did see an advisory that was circulated in
Speaker 2: the Defense Department. I think it was October of twenty
Speaker 2: three that cautioned against using non secure app non secure apps.
Speaker 2: They specifically, well, I don't think that they specifically said that.
Speaker 2: I think you're incorrecting that signal. For I spoke with
Speaker 2: someone today who's been on Signal for about ten years
Speaker 2: and they said, look, this is a great app. The
Speaker 2: mistake that was made, obviously was that someone went into
Speaker 2: Waltz's contacts, the National Security Tracer and added this journalist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, by mistake.
Speaker 2: However, that's why you don't have aids to people setting
Speaker 2: this stuff up. It should have been set up by
Speaker 2: someone from a communications expert from the Defense Department, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, and then if something happens, which is a problem,
Speaker 2: it's not UH an official in the government, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's it's the com team with the Defense Department. I
Speaker 2: just look, this actually can turn into a plus because
Speaker 2: maybe out of this the Trump administration and subsequent administrations,
Speaker 2: and there will be subsequent administrations will say we're not
Speaker 2: using Signal, We're not never using you know. Can I
Speaker 2: tell you a story that I've never told in the
Speaker 2: air before. I think you'll find interesting. Okay. Do you
Speaker 2: remember when cell phones first became popular.
Speaker 4: In use use, Yes, and it was huge early nineties.
Speaker 2: Okay, not everybody had a cell phone, but there were
Speaker 2: a lot of people. Shakers and movies got cell phones first. Okay.
Speaker 2: So when I worked at Channel four, we had a
Speaker 2: radio system in our trucks which could pick up cell
Speaker 2: phone signals mm hmm, and occasionally you would hear something
Speaker 2: like this. You would hear some guy calling his wife
Speaker 2: at six thirty at night, and the conversation was like
Speaker 2: a sweetheart, I hate to do this too, but I'm working.
Speaker 2: We're working late tonight and it's going to be a
Speaker 2: rough night. But you know, I'll be home by midnight.
Speaker 2: Don't worry. Just yeah, I'll see in the morning.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: As soon as he hangs up, you ding ding ding
Speaker 2: ding ding ding ding ding ding the girlfriend and we're
Speaker 2: sitting in the truck listening to it. Know, Hi, honey,
Speaker 2: how are you You're going to be available tonight? We're
Speaker 2: going to do dinner right okay, you know. But more importantly,
Speaker 2: there were a few times that we heard identifiable voices.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you who saying stupid things
Speaker 2: that they shouldn't be saying. So yeah, so exactly all
Speaker 2: I'm just saying is back in the day. Now, hopefully
Speaker 2: people have been smart enough about that and say to
Speaker 2: themselves that when they have a conversation, they there's some
Speaker 2: privacy to it. Same thing here. I think that these
Speaker 2: guys were playing a little foot loose. They were probably
Speaker 2: we're happy, they were thrilled that the thing was going
Speaker 2: going well, and yeah, and they talked about, as Hiawatha
Speaker 2: Bray said last hour, about we're doing this for Europe
Speaker 2: and Europe doesn't appreciate it. We don't like Europe, Papa.
Speaker 2: You know, that's going to cause some diplomatic problem. There's
Speaker 2: some real problems out of this, and hopefully it won't
Speaker 2: happen again.
Speaker 4: But then I have one other I think, and this
Speaker 4: may need to be fact checks, So I'm just throwing
Speaker 4: out things that I have heard. So I heard that
Speaker 4: the Department of Defense spent fourteen billion dollars to build
Speaker 4: some kind of secret messaging thing that that's where this
Speaker 4: kind of stuff that's supposed to be used, and that
Speaker 4: discussed that is totally secure. Well, and it was a
Speaker 4: lot of taxpayer money. Fourteen billion.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I think what they might be talking about there,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, Okay, I've never heard that figure.
Speaker 2: But they have these secure what they're called skiffs in
Speaker 2: something like that Washington.
Speaker 5: D C.
Speaker 2: And they're rooms where people can go into and they
Speaker 2: supposedly are impregnable. You know, there's so many hackers out there.
Speaker 2: I don't know that anything's impregnable, but to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, but this.
Speaker 4: Is supposed to be like a sort of a like
Speaker 4: an app, but it's only for top secret military.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard. I've heard of these.
Speaker 2: They're called skiffs and uh it's uh Rob, it's an acronym,
Speaker 2: and Rob gave me last night what the acronym is for.
Speaker 2: They're no, they're known called they're called skiffs. And what
Speaker 2: happens is when Congress is going to members of Congress
Speaker 2: or members of certain committees or cheer people higher ups
Speaker 2: in Congress are going to get a debrief on something,
Speaker 2: they go to this these rooms. They have to leave
Speaker 2: their cell phones outside the rooms. Okay, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: in some cases they can go inside and read documents
Speaker 2: or in some cases they go inside and they're debriefed,
Speaker 2: but they talk about going into the skiff.
Speaker 4: All right, fair enough, Okay, I think this' I think
Speaker 4: this what I got from this, and maybe this is
Speaker 4: a different thing, but I got this sense or thought
Speaker 4: I heard may need to be fact checked or whatever,
Speaker 4: that that the and I State's military, the Parliment Defense
Speaker 4: spend something or fourteen billion said that.
Speaker 2: You might be right. I can't.
Speaker 4: I think it's like a certain I think it's like
Speaker 4: an app that's only for you know, Okay, people try.
Speaker 2: I'll try to find that out. Neal. You've made the
Speaker 2: point and I and I wish I could help you
Speaker 2: in that one. I'll try to find it out.
Speaker 4: And I think what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Maybe one of our other callers will know it. That's
Speaker 2: the beauty of nightside. Someone else can call say yeah.
Speaker 4: Exactly, okay, thank you. What happened is they're gonnael I.
Speaker 2: Got I gotta grab another call here before the news.
Speaker 2: We've gone ten minutes, Neil. Okay, so all right, great,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. Let me go to Bob and Worcester.
Speaker 2: Bob want to get you in here before the news.
Speaker 6: Bob, this will be my last call about Signal. Okay,
Speaker 6: what they call a safety number. It's similar to a password,
Speaker 6: but it acts differently. Each party can see this number
Speaker 6: on the bottom of the screen and mains content. If
Speaker 6: it starts flashing, somebody is listening to your conversation. I
Speaker 6: don't know of any other app that has this.
Speaker 2: Well, that is news to me. I haven't heard that,
Speaker 2: but it wouldn't surprise me because I believe that there
Speaker 2: are ways in which your device when it downloads the
Speaker 2: app called Signal. Uh, it is a very secure device.
Speaker 2: And I've talked to people today to had a long
Speaker 2: conversation with someone who's been on Signal for about ten years,
Speaker 2: and they give me They gave me a debrief this
Speaker 2: afternoon and they said, it's a really secure app. Now
Speaker 2: you're so, could someone theoretically get in? Yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: in this case, I think it was a mistake. I
Speaker 2: don't think one of the Trump These are the most
Speaker 2: loyal Trump people in the world, the Secretary of Defense,
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State, all of the individuals they were
Speaker 2: involved in this. I don't think any one of them
Speaker 2: is int it'll be really great. Let's have Jeff Goldberg
Speaker 2: from Atlantic Magazine. I mean, Goldberg is a longtime critic
Speaker 2: of the Trump not only the Trump the first administration,
Speaker 2: with this one as well. I think it I think
Speaker 2: it was a mistake and and it's it's a cautionary tale.
Speaker 2: And to some extent, we were lucky as a nation.
Speaker 2: There was no plane, no no information got to the
Speaker 2: hoodies ahead of time. They got hit, and they got
Speaker 2: hit hard.
Speaker 6: And the company that owns uh say that owns signal,
Speaker 6: I think the stocks have gone way up.
Speaker 2: I would bet you that you're probably right on that.
Speaker 2: And there's probably a lot of people who are deciding
Speaker 2: they're going to get an encrypted It's it's just an
Speaker 2: app you put in your phone. So if again, if
Speaker 2: some guy who's uh, you know, who's who's messing around
Speaker 2: his wife, he might turn around and say I better
Speaker 2: get that. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 6: And it's so easy to use to just put your
Speaker 6: number in and that's it.
Speaker 1: So you have it right right, I've been.
Speaker 6: Using it for a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Now. Why are you using are you don't don't give
Speaker 2: me too muchmation. Are you using it because you have
Speaker 2: it's a business purpose, or are you using it because
Speaker 2: you just don't want people to monitor or audit your conversations.
Speaker 6: No, I use it as part of a dating site.
Speaker 6: Really yeah, so so want we can have a conversation
Speaker 6: about online dating.
Speaker 2: Well, I suspect that that's the wild wild West. I
Speaker 2: guess I've never been on an online dating site. So
Speaker 2: you want to make sure that the person who you're
Speaker 2: talking to is actually the person you're talking to, and
Speaker 2: you don't want is that? Is that why you're using
Speaker 2: it that way?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair, that's fair. I mean you hear the
Speaker 2: horror stories about the online dating sites. Someone sends you
Speaker 2: a picture and when they show up, they bear no
Speaker 2: resemblance of the picture at all.
Speaker 6: Okay, you know we can do a three hour show
Speaker 6: about online dating.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Bob, at some point, have Rob.
Speaker 2: Rob will give you my direct line. You give me
Speaker 2: a call, and maybe we'll do that some Friday night.
Speaker 6: Okay, Friday night I go out dancing.
Speaker 2: How about but we'll do it a Thursday night in
Speaker 2: advance of a weekend. Okay we could? We could? You
Speaker 2: do be av and Rob will give you my direct line.
Speaker 2: You can have it and call me if you're so inclined. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not looking for your number. You give you give
Speaker 2: Rob will give you mind fair enough. Thanks Bob, all right,
Speaker 2: thank you very much, good night. All right, you're not
Speaker 2: gonna cut off on Rob. He's gonna Rob will talk
Speaker 2: to Bob and they'll be all said. Who knows again,
Speaker 2: if there's anything that you hear on this program that
Speaker 2: you think is incorrect, factually, I always welcome corrections of
Speaker 2: what I say and corrections of what on my caller say. Okay,
Speaker 2: because I am not omnipotent. Okay, I got I'm not infallible. Okay,
Speaker 2: I make mistakes, but my audience can help me and
Speaker 2: can help my show. We'll take a quick break. Come
Speaker 2: on right back on night Side. Uh the well, we
Speaker 2: got one line which just dropped off six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty and one line in six one, seven, nine thirty.
Speaker 2: Come on right back on night Side.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WA Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 7: Her.
Speaker 2: Let's move it a little bit more quickly. Pick up
Speaker 2: the pace here, Bob and Rain and Bob you were
Speaker 2: next on Nightside.
Speaker 8: Go right ahead, Bob, Hey Dan, how's it going a
Speaker 8: little smaller?
Speaker 2: Sailing? Tonight than last night.
Speaker 8: But go right ahead, Okay, I'd like to say that
Speaker 8: you know, a lot of us here in you know,
Speaker 8: the Boston area and so on. We a lot of
Speaker 8: US work in secured facilities and uh places where classified
Speaker 8: information is uh you know, pro processed, and even if
Speaker 8: we're not privy to it, which I never was, we're
Speaker 8: aware that it's around and there's certain protocols set up
Speaker 8: to you know, if you come across it accidentally, which
Speaker 8: could happen. I mean, you could be invited to a
Speaker 8: meeting that you shouldn't be invited to just because you
Speaker 8: have a similar or you know, a common last name,
Speaker 8: or you know, the secure documentation that are in you know,
Speaker 8: identifiable level hopes that if you see, you're supposed to
Speaker 8: turn in and just dissolved different. I mean, we're trained
Speaker 8: on what to do with this, right So in my
Speaker 8: in my opinion, this guy Goldberg and and and I'll
Speaker 8: go further to say that any you know, true American
Speaker 8: or you know, someone that's really concerned about the security
Speaker 8: of our nation would never dare you know, look at
Speaker 8: that information and or if you somehow you were on
Speaker 8: a meeting, you would you know, get yourself off that
Speaker 8: meeting right away and then you know, notify your supervisor
Speaker 8: that you inadvertently were on something you shouldn't have been on.
Speaker 8: And and uh, you know, the whole thing is to
Speaker 8: you know, keep keep our country secure. And in my opinion,
Speaker 8: this guy Goldberg, I mean, obviously it sounds like he
Speaker 8: has uh you know, he has no use for Trump
Speaker 8: and he's ready to you know, sabotage him any chance
Speaker 8: he could or whatever. But that being said, he's putting
Speaker 8: people at risk and other people at risk by I mean,
Speaker 8: he should have done the right thing and gone to
Speaker 8: whoever he somehow got invited to this meeting bar and
Speaker 8: said they, I shouldn't have been on this thing. You
Speaker 8: guys got to be careful. But instead he blew it
Speaker 8: all up. And now our enemies, no, you know, the
Speaker 8: site is out there, and and our.
Speaker 2: Enemies probably knew it, knew it before. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't I think that they would have figured that out.
Speaker 2: But again, you had a security clearance. You wanted to
Speaker 2: protect that security clearance. Jeffrey Goldberg, he's a journalist, so
Speaker 2: he was functioning with a different set of priorities. I
Speaker 2: guess would be the way to describe it. I don't
Speaker 2: want to. He did not leak anything on substance until
Speaker 2: the Trump administration said oh no, there were no there
Speaker 2: were no battle plans or anything like that, And the
Speaker 2: language gets kind of, uh, kind of sloppy. There is
Speaker 2: you know, what exactly is a battle plan? What it?
Speaker 2: What exactly is you know, an attack plan? That sort
Speaker 2: of thing. So I just, you know, I can't understand
Speaker 2: your feeling. I get it. You you probably with your
Speaker 2: training would have said, hey, I'm not supposed to be
Speaker 2: on here, I'm going to report it. Who's he going
Speaker 2: to report it to his his publisher?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean he just should have. He should have
Speaker 8: just maybe I mean his published is probably in the
Speaker 8: same bit as he's in. But yeah, he he uh,
Speaker 8: but I mean, you know, just for just for the
Speaker 8: good of our country, he shouldn't have.
Speaker 4: I mean, he's turned up.
Speaker 2: I got your point. I got your point.
Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you, And.
Speaker 2: Most people would have probably a lot of people would
Speaker 2: agree with you. Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your call.
Speaker 2: Going to keep rolling here, we're going next to who
Speaker 2: we got we got Margie in uh in New York. Marjorie,
Speaker 2: You're next to night Saga right ahead.
Speaker 9: Yes, fine, I know we have mentioned your age, but
Speaker 9: I don't know. Oh do you span before cell phones?
Speaker 2: Of course they do. Yeah, was I was? I born
Speaker 2: after cell phones became a VII.
Speaker 9: Did you have cell phones in your youth?
Speaker 2: In my youth?
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, no, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't really introduced. The first cell phones I ever
Speaker 2: used were the They were big, bulky cell phones that
Speaker 2: we would be given when I was working in television
Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties and if we were going to Washington,
Speaker 2: we would get us. It was it almost looked a
Speaker 2: military cell phone. It was a a in a bag
Speaker 2: that you'd hang over your shoulder, and it was the
Speaker 2: phone was like the size of your shoe. It looked
Speaker 2: like it was certainly more cumbersome than what we have today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that those were the first cell phones that were
Speaker 2: commercially available, and the average citizen didn't have those cell phones.
Speaker 2: The average person didn't get cell phones until sometime in
Speaker 2: the early late eighties early nineties. We got them a little.
Speaker 2: We had what were called cell phones, but they will
Speaker 2: we thought of them as portable phones. So that's that's
Speaker 2: my explanation on that one.
Speaker 9: Man't you Okay. What I want to take you back
Speaker 9: to is because I live in that era. I gave
Speaker 9: up my cell phone. I don't have a laptop. I
Speaker 9: have a regular desktop computer, and I'm trying to get
Speaker 9: rid of all the angst now. I just want for
Speaker 9: those who don't know, before cell phones, we would take
Speaker 9: vacations in Europe. We had a small child, We'd hire
Speaker 9: a babysitter and we'd go for three weeks to Europe.
Speaker 9: We never had the desire or a chance to call
Speaker 9: back in three weeks and check if anyone was alive
Speaker 9: or dead. You came home, you took your Kodak slide
Speaker 9: show development than everyone to see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I go, I totally get it. But but
Speaker 2: that's that's what the way it was back then. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's a different world today, Margie. I would agree.
Speaker 9: You're exactly right. And you know what, it was a
Speaker 9: much more peaceful and happier world.
Speaker 2: All right, great, I don't dis don't necessarily disagree with you, Margie. Thanks.
Speaker 2: I always enjoy your calls. Be well, okay, thanks, thank you,
Speaker 2: great night, good night. All right, going to take a
Speaker 2: very quick break here now you know what I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm going to plow through and going to get Ron
Speaker 2: and Newton. We got a line open at six one seven,
Speaker 2: two five four ten thirty and one at six one
Speaker 2: seven nine three one ten thirty. I am not going
Speaker 2: to make Ron wait, hey, Ron, welcome back. How are
Speaker 2: you hi?
Speaker 5: Dan?
Speaker 10: Thank you? Thanks a lot for this topic. I have
Speaker 10: a couple of questions, and there some sort of an
Speaker 10: analogy that I think maybe applied. Okay, but I'm I'm wondering.
Speaker 10: We use we use encrypted apps on our disaster response
Speaker 10: to communicate with one another. But I'm wondering if this
Speaker 10: lends itself to what I did for quite a few
Speaker 10: years with medical errors, that is root cause analysis and
Speaker 10: in essence, if we had an independent specialty group like
Speaker 10: our team from MIT, do a root cause analysis, look
Speaker 10: at you know, and I used to do them in
Speaker 10: chronological order. I would look at what was the root
Speaker 10: cause in this case it's communications link error, and I
Speaker 10: would look at secondary cause in this case double triple
Speaker 10: check not validated. But I'm not so sure I agree
Speaker 10: with the no file no harm in our analysis of errors,
Speaker 10: would categorize it into number one. Yes it could. I
Speaker 10: out of the department, but didn't touch the patient. Number two, Yeah,
Speaker 10: got out, touched the patient but only caused temporary harm.
Speaker 10: Number three, it touched the patient, caused permanent harm, and
Speaker 10: then finally a sentinel event where the patient died. And
Speaker 10: we would look at at this as Number one, was
Speaker 10: it a system flaw. If it was, you propose an
Speaker 10: intervention to a rapid cycle test and see see if
Speaker 10: it works and then scale it up. Number two, if
Speaker 10: it was a short cut that the individual took, such
Speaker 10: as you know, cutting in and pasting a certain amount
Speaker 10: of information from a previous visit, then that's a short
Speaker 10: cut that the person may have been taken for a while,
Speaker 10: and you have to correct their practice and then finally
Speaker 10: knowingly and willingly doing something and that would result in punishment.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's not. Also, it's a very methodical process.
Speaker 10: You explained, I like that, so, and we had to
Speaker 10: constantly communicate that information to the Board of Internal Medicine
Speaker 10: in Boston, and so they would look at for example,
Speaker 10: you know, a wrong site surgery left risks, right risk.
Speaker 4: How does that occur?
Speaker 10: Or alternatively, uh, you know it was an unintended error
Speaker 10: where they scalpel just nicked an adjacent tissue. It was
Speaker 10: certainly uh unintended, but nevertheless it did occur, so a
Speaker 10: root cause has to be done. They would send that
Speaker 10: off to the committee at the Board of Internal Medicine
Speaker 10: and they would review it and then to say, yeah,
Speaker 10: you did a good job on that, but we want
Speaker 10: you to look at this in addition, so it creates
Speaker 10: a continuous process improvement. It doesn't hold anybody to blame necessarily.
Speaker 2: All right, Demo, how that applies here, Ron may be
Speaker 2: a little bit more difficult because it's probably yours is
Speaker 2: probably a cleaner and well thought out procedure. Ron, I
Speaker 2: took you before the news, but I've gone four minutes,
Speaker 2: so I got to let you go. Thank you much.
Speaker 2: Interesting and interesting analysis, very interesting. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Have a great one back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you BZ
Speaker 1: Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to try to get everyone in. It
Speaker 2: won't be easy. Let me go next to Danielle in Worcester. Danielle,
Speaker 2: you're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5: Go right ahead, Hey Dan, Hi, daniel two quick things. No,
Speaker 5: I think we used it a while back when I
Speaker 5: was in corporate America still, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 5: with all the publicity with the Karen Reid trial and
Speaker 5: you know now with Trump and everything, I think that well,
Speaker 5: not so much with this Trump story, but with the
Speaker 5: Karen retrial. I think that it's kind of a you know,
Speaker 5: a real eye opener to see that if you're in
Speaker 5: corporate America and you have a personal cell phone, and
Speaker 5: you're using your personal cell phone for any work related business,
Speaker 5: your phone is now subject to discovery. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: my phone is like my pocketbook. Is there anything in
Speaker 5: there that is he illegal? No, but it's like private.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, before I had my double mess eectomy,
Speaker 5: I took a before picture, Okay, I took an after picture.
Speaker 5: My sister recently had a biopsy rest of biopsy, and
Speaker 5: she sent me a picture of the side of her chest.
Speaker 5: Those aren't things that you want people to see. They're
Speaker 5: not bad, but they're private, you know. So I think
Speaker 5: the Signal app kind of gives you, you know, especially
Speaker 5: if you if you're a work person, if you're in
Speaker 5: corporate America, you're liking sales and you use your phone
Speaker 5: to contact clients. Now you're in God forbid, there's some
Speaker 5: kind of illegal thing that goes on and you get
Speaker 5: to point you're they can sub they can sub pena
Speaker 5: on your phone.
Speaker 4: And so there's.
Speaker 2: A practical use for this.
Speaker 5: Right, So it's not always about I think people automatically think, oh,
Speaker 5: he's shady, is cheating. You know, she must be hiding
Speaker 5: something from her husband, And really it's not so much
Speaker 5: that it's and and another I know you to go.
Speaker 5: The other thing that I thought that was really interesting
Speaker 5: I learned about iPhones. There are a lot of people
Speaker 5: don't know. But if you look at your ear piece
Speaker 5: where you put your phone to your ear, right beside
Speaker 5: that little hole over the ear is is an indicator
Speaker 5: light that comes on and it's orange if your microphone
Speaker 5: is activated, and it's green if your camera and or
Speaker 5: microphone are activated. And where that's helpful is a lot
Speaker 5: of times you're using an app. You have a go
Speaker 5: on like Facebook, and you talk about us or something,
Speaker 5: and then two days later there's an ug you know,
Speaker 5: commercial or something. So if you look down at your phone,
Speaker 5: you can see if there's an orange indicator light saying
Speaker 5: that your microphone is active when you're using that app
Speaker 5: and therefore could be just recording a conversation you're having
Speaker 5: with the person beside you, and you can disable that
Speaker 5: in in your app settings.
Speaker 3: Son.
Speaker 5: I thought that that was an interesting thing I learned.
Speaker 2: At all great place, Danielle. You always bring your a game.
Speaker 2: Thank you much, Thank you much. Twenty seventh Okay, can't wait.
Speaker 2: Thanks Thanks Tom and Dorchester. Tom. I'm gonna get you
Speaker 2: in here, Betty, go, buddy, go right.
Speaker 11: Ahead, right Dan, it's trying to be fast. That was
Speaker 11: this whole situation, this whole debacle. I found the culpra
Speaker 11: of the debacle. His name is Matt Walls. He works
Speaker 11: the Trump He's a warhawk. He worked for Dick Cheney
Speaker 11: and uh and he goes Goldman with Goldbert the reporter.
Speaker 11: He knows him. I think he put him on the conversation.
Speaker 11: Now I think he has to go. I think his
Speaker 11: name is Matt Walls.
Speaker 2: The way he's he is a very he's former congressman. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: fair enough. You're a Trump, you're a Trump support. It
Speaker 2: will see what happens if if they bounce him. I
Speaker 2: want you to call me back because that's going to
Speaker 2: be very interesting.
Speaker 11: All right, Thank you, Dan, Thanks.
Speaker 2: Dog, appreciate it. Laurie, good night. Let me go to
Speaker 2: Joe and Boston Joy, you gonna wrap it for us?
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Joe.
Speaker 7: He and remember Bill Belichick when he tried to reach
Speaker 7: Brian Daboll, he reached out to Brian Flores.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, Oh no, that's a
Speaker 2: good one.
Speaker 7: However, in this case, there is something that concerns me.
Speaker 7: I think I heard through sources and there was one
Speaker 7: of those low level eights that put the phone list together,
Speaker 7: because yeah, I mean, who has the number of this guy?
Speaker 7: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Well, it was on Apparently Goldberg's number was on Mike
Speaker 2: Wallt's phone. And Waltz a person who well, he could be,
Speaker 2: he could be he could have him as not as
Speaker 2: a source. But you know, I have people on my
Speaker 2: phone who might be friends. I have people on my phone.
Speaker 5: Who might be.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I really don't think he's a farewell of fans,
Speaker 7: but I mean.
Speaker 10: Experience though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he apparently gave his phone to set it
Speaker 2: up to an AID. Now I don't know if the
Speaker 2: aid was a twenty one year old. In turn, if
Speaker 2: the AID is a is a trusted uh, Waltz I
Speaker 2: think was a member of Congress. I thinks a veteran
Speaker 2: of the military.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they say it was a two year old aide
Speaker 7: that did that. You know so well, you know it
Speaker 7: is what it is, No harm, no foul.
Speaker 2: All right enough, Joe Amott, I'm flat on the time.
Speaker 2: It's always so great to you guy that I love you.
Speaker 7: I appreciate you right back, right back at you, Joe.
Speaker 2: You know that. Okay, thank you, my friend. Say ahad
Speaker 2: everybody for me. Okay, we're done for the night. I
Speaker 2: got word tonight. I'm going to mention it tomorrow. One
Speaker 2: of our most loyal callers has passed away. Some of
Speaker 2: you remember Paul from Dorchester. He's a gentleman who taught
Speaker 2: in the Boston public schools and worked as a basketball coach.
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard from in a while. So maybe tonight
Speaker 2: before you go to bed, say a prayer for Paul.
Speaker 2: Paul Mahoney of Dorchester and Norwood, who's a great loyal
Speaker 2: listener of Nightside, always brought us a game and passed
Speaker 2: away today. I'll mention it tomorrow night as well. I
Speaker 2: want to thank that the person who passed that information
Speaker 2: on to me. My name is Dan Ray. Thank you
Speaker 2: very much. Rob Brooks, thank you very much, Marita, I'll lend.
Speaker 2: There's always all dogs, all cats, all pets go to heaven.
Speaker 2: That's why Pal Charlie Ray is who passed fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: That's where all your pets are who passed. They loved
Speaker 2: you and you love them. I do believe you'll see
Speaker 2: them again. Hope to see again tomorrow night on night
Speaker 2: Side at eight o'clock. Have a great Friday everyone. I'm
Speaker 2: going to see you on Facebook Nice Side with Dan
Speaker 2: Ray in about two minutes. Join us there. I love
Speaker 2: to say hello, have a great Friday. I'll talk to
Speaker 2: you to morrow.