WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.919 Oh Years Bolts, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:10.560 People pay good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:12.160 When they go out to a theater. 4 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:15.919 They are cold sodas from hot popcorn in no Monsters 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:17.199 in the Protection booth. 6 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.160 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.600 Don a. 8 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:45.079 Manchester birthplace to the railways, the computer, the Bouncing Bomb. 9 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:48.320 In nineteen seventy six, if you wanted to see the 10 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.960 most exciting bands in the world, they were on a 11 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.600 regional show coming out of Manchester. My show I'm Tony Wilson. 12 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.640 During the fourth is Expostus playing Manchester for the very 13 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:03.240 first time. There are only forty two people in the audience. Inspired, 14 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:06.000 they will go out and perform wondrous deeds. For instance, 15 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:09.280 behind me a stiff kittens, lads to become Joy Divisions, 16 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:18.319 finally to become New Order. That's John the Postman. He's 17 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:26.920 a postman. You Atrey Records, my label Joy Division, New Order. 18 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:30.359 We are an experiment in human nature. 19 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:33.400 Kind of muse it. 20 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.040 You'll be bringing in sort of new way, kind of 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.959 Indie Indian. 22 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.439 He didn't sign the Smiths. I've just seen God look like. 23 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:43.400 Who I mean? 24 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:49.079 The United Artists presents Steve Coogan in the International smash comedy. 25 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.719 It's like Scooby doing it because they like that must 26 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:53.599 It is a little bit like Scooby does. 27 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.239 It takes you back to the start of a movement. 28 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:59.519 This is it the birth of rave culture. This is 29 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.159 the moment when even the white man starts dancing, a. 30 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.159 Time when legends were created. 31 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.519 You know, I think that Sean Rider is on powert 32 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.199 wbas as a poet. Give him example some of me 33 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.599 lyrics good good good, good good good. 34 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:16.919 And rules We're broken. 35 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:20.360 Really ought to be careful with that, Sean. You can 36 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:21.280 take someone's eye out. 37 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.000 Can I offer anybody like the best? 38 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:35.800 Don Judge, I'm being post before Natashable. When you have 39 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:39.439 to choose between the truth and the legend, print the 40 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.960 legend is he gonna hit me? 41 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:55.240 Twenty four Hour Party People, Welcome to the Projection Booth. 42 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:55.719 I'm your host. 43 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:58.439 Mike White joined me once again. Is mister axel Cohagen 44 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:01.759 always a pleasure? Also back in the booth, this father. 45 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:04.960 Alone good good, good, good, double good. 46 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.000 We are amid a bunch of Patreon picks with one 47 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.599 from Andrew Hendrickson. Twenty four Hour Party People. It's the 48 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:17.000 story of Tony Wilson and Factory Records or is it 49 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.400 really just a story of the music. From director Michael 50 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:24.560 Winterbottom and screenwriter Frank Catrell Boyce, the film stars Steve 51 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.680 Coogan as Wilson and a cavalcade of familiar faces in 52 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:31.639 supporting roles like Lenny James as Alan Erasmus and Patty 53 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:35.639 Constantine as Rob Gretton. We will be spoiling this film 54 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.680 as we go along. I mean, it was kind of 55 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:40.000 based on real life, so we can spoil real life 56 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:41.879 for you as well. If we don't want anything, we're 57 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.400 entered off the podcast and go watch the movie, we 58 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.080 will still be here. So, Axel, when was the first 59 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:49.680 time you saw twenty four Hour Party People? And what 60 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:50.319 did you think? 61 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.479 My friend recommended it to me and said, you're gonna 62 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:56.960 watch this and then you're going to get into joy division. 63 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:01.520 And he was absolutely right. And I liked the movie 64 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.919 when I first saw it. That was sort of the 65 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:06.960 end of it. And then when I was preparing to 66 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:10.639 watch it again for this podcast, part of me was thinking, 67 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:12.599 I don't know that this is the kind of movie 68 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.520 that's going to hold up as well for a second viewing, 69 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:19.639 and I was a little cautious. But five minutes into 70 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.800 the second viewing, I was absolutely hooked. I think this 71 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.560 is actually a movie that I liked better the second 72 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.360 time I watched it, and Father Malone, how about yourself. 73 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.959 I saw this in the theater when it came out. 74 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:35.360 I intended with a friend of mine who he and 75 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:37.680 I had had a debate about who was better New 76 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.519 Order or Joy Division our entire lives. He knew that 77 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:43.839 I loved Joy Division, but he also knew that I 78 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.759 hated the Happy Mondays. I did not. I could not 79 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.839 embrace the acid house scene that was going on in 80 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.800 Manchester in the late eighties. But he was convinced that 81 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.160 this would change my mind about that, and yeah, it 82 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.360 really did. I mean as soon as I saw this movie, 83 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.639 when I got out of it, I went and bought Pills, 84 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.480 Throws and belly eggs. This movie to me not to 85 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.480 bury the lead. I think it's the perfect ideal of 86 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.800 a bio pick music bio pick and could not wait 87 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.120 for it to come out on DVD. Was was shattered 88 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:18.920 shattered watching the movie when they mentioned DVDs. As a 89 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.199 matter of fact, that was and all I could think 90 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:24.240 about was getting one as soon as it came out, 91 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:26.600 So which I've dug up and watched a number of 92 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.000 times leading up to this, so I'm excited to talk 93 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:29.560 about the movie. 94 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:31.720 I think it's a It's just one of the best 95 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.600 out there. This was a first time watch for me. 96 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:36.720 I had never seen them before, and I kept trying 97 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.839 to think of why why had I not watched this, 98 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.480 and came up both a couple theories. One was, I 99 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:45.759 think I told you this before, fatherm alone. I might 100 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.360 have gotten mixed up with Party Monster. 101 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.279 The Macaulay Culkin, Yes, and I guess that has. 102 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:56.160 Something to do with rave culture, those kind of things. Also, 103 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:00.399 I was not a big fan of the man Chester 104 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.560 scene when it came to the stuff that was going 105 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.240 on in the late eighties early nineties. For some reason, 106 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.879 it just felt like too much like here's Charlaton's UK, 107 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:16.360 Here's what was the uh this ros One, Stone Roses, 108 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.879 Hot Dragons, Thank You House Flowers, And I just was like, 109 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.079 oh man, this is a lot of stuff that I 110 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.959 really am just not into. And now Stone Roses total 111 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.120 exception loved Stone Roses. Don't know why exactly. I like 112 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.480 them and didn't really like the rest of these bands. 113 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.920 I had never heard of The Happy Mondays, until I 114 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.680 started watching this movie, and I thought at first that 115 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:43.319 it was made up. That's how much I didn't know. 116 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.199 And even when they played their songs, I was like, 117 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.279 I've never heard these in my life, because I mean 118 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.879 even the title song twenty four Hour Party people, no 119 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.680 no idea that that was a song before. So I 120 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:57.639 just felt completely out of the loop with this. I 121 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.839 was somewhat familiar with Factory Record, it's just from what 122 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.639 they were putting out, but was not aware of Tony Wilson, 123 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.439 was not aware of the Hacienda, so this was really 124 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.120 brand new for me. And man, oh Man, Tony Wilson, 125 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.639 What a fascinating character this guy is. After a while 126 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.959 watching this movie, was Steve Coogan playing this role? I 127 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.240 just wanted to yell will you shut up at the 128 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.600 TV because he just won't stop talking. But I'm like, 129 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.759 this is a great compelling protagonist for a film. 130 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.519 Peter Hook from Joy Division and New Order described this 131 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.879 film as about Manchester's biggest cunt portrayed by Manchester's second 132 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:43.360 biggest cunt, and yes, I do think Tony Wilson is 133 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.920 one hundred percent of fascinating character. He describes himself as 134 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.079 a journalist first and foremost did until the day he died, 135 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.079 not you know, not record a company owner, not record promoter, 136 00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:00.360 not nightclub owner. And this movie is kind of lightning 137 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.360 in a bottle in that they have him as their 138 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.680 central character, a character removed from the creative process while 139 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:13.680 central to it, and my god, how lucky that not 140 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.279 only do they was he just sort of a fascinating character, 141 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.480 but he was on camera like so he's part of 142 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.800 the media. Like in the opening sequence where where they're 143 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.879 showing one of his little bits that he would do 144 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.480 for Granada Television where he's hang gliding, we're actually seeing 145 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.759 Tony Wilson in that sequence. Steve Coogan described it as 146 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:35.159 I had Tony Wilson as my stunt double for my 147 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.600 portrayal of Tony Wilson in the movie. He doesn't shut 148 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:40.879 up ever, and you want him to shut up. And 149 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.320 at the same time, I could continue listening to him 150 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:47.399 talk as smug as he could get. He's always funny 151 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:51.000 and always informative, like the best narrator I've ever seen 152 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:52.279 for a biopic. 153 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.759 There's a scene in the movie where Steve Coogan as 154 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.519 Tony Wilson, turns toward the camera and says, this isn't 155 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:03.720 about me, this is about the Manchester scene. And I 156 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.639 couldn't disagree more. This is Steve Coogan's movie in my mind, 157 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.320 and this is the story of Tony Wilson, a guy 158 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.919 who was at the right place at the right time, 159 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:21.480 with the right attitude and kind of captured lightning in 160 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:25.840 a bottle. And yeah, it's a character study in Steve 161 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:27.600 Coogan is amazing in this movie. 162 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:32.960 Cougan is fantastic. I really like Steve Coogan. I can't 163 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.120 say I'm familiar with all of the stuff that he's 164 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.039 done over the years, because he's done a ton I'm 165 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.200 not familiar with the Alan Partridge character. But I'm curious 166 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:45.559 how close Alan Partridge and Tony Wilson are because I know, 167 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:51.559 isn't Alan Partridge kind of unaware of himself and like 168 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.960 so full of himself but yet also unaware at the 169 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:54.440 same time. 170 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:59.399 I likened when Alan Partridge to the Larry Sanders character 171 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:01.159 when he first hit the air and we were seeing 172 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.960 him on his talk show. He's evolved over time. He 173 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.360 just had a movie recently, actually, and yes, he's kissing 174 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:14.320 cousins with Tony Wilson in the sort of egotism, but 175 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:18.399 completely unaware of it. Like the Tony Wilson as a 176 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.879 character in this movie is knowing that he's in the movie. 177 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.879 But you know, Steve Coogan said, like it only makes 178 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:26.879 sense for him to talk about the movie while he's 179 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:29.399 in the movie. A character of Tony Wilson would be 180 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.080 aware that he was in the film. So that self 181 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.360 awareness is lacking with Alan Partridge completely. He's more of 182 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:36.279 a buffoon that way. 183 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.279 Alan Partridge, from what I've seen of him, reminds me 184 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.759 a lot of Jimmy Glick. I don't know if that's 185 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:43.200 a fair assessment or not. 186 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:48.720 In the fawningness and the sarcasm, definitely the bitterness that's 187 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.720 lying just underneath all that happiness. 188 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.559 Yeah, I do love that Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson 189 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.600 is a character in his own movie that he does 190 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.440 speak to the camera like you're saying that he's so aware. 191 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:03.840 You know, from the very first scene you're talking about 192 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.720 the hang gliding stuff and when he's like, this movie 193 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:08.799 isn't about this, it's more about this, and it just 194 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.080 like lays out and by breaking that fourth wall in 195 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:15.279 the very first scene, you're like, oh, Okay, this is 196 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:18.159 what I'm in for. And there are times where I'm like, 197 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.320 are other people hearing him talk to the camera or 198 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.320 is it just us? Are we the only ones hearing 199 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:25.200 this dialogue? 200 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.360 What's funny is it wouldn't be removed if people were listening. 201 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.039 There might as well be somebody just standing off camera 202 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.200 who he's just talking to. You get the notion that 203 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:38.120 Tony never shut the fuck up ever, Yeah, and he's. 204 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:42.480 So grandiose with his whole thing. I mean, the idea 205 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:47.120 of the wheel that comes up constantly through this whole movie, 206 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:49.720 and you're like, Okay, yeah, I can see him being 207 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.639 very into you know, Greek philosophers, and i'd love to 208 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:54.120 At one point he says like. 209 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.120 You're gonna be saying a lot more of that sort 210 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.200 of thing in the film, although that actually did happen. 211 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:02.799 Symbolic it works on both levels. I don't want to 212 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.399 tell you too much, don't want to spoil the film, 213 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.080 but I'll just say, Icarus, okay if you know what 214 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.000 I mean, right, if it doesn't matter, but you should 215 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:10.759 probably read more. 216 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.120 I am so intellectually superior to everyone around. 217 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.360 Me, you know, And that's part of that opening scene. 218 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.200 It's the I just want to say Icarus and then 219 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:23.279 the credits role it's like a declaration like I'm going 220 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.519 to be this smug to you for the rest of 221 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:27.799 the film. I'm your lead character. 222 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.480 It's very smart the way that they blend. You talked 223 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.039 about how Tony Wilson is Steve Coogan's stunt double by 224 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:38.480 them reusing the old footage from Granada. I don't know 225 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.759 if it's Robbie Mueller, the DP, or who it was 226 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.559 that was in charge of this, but to blend the 227 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:48.799 footage of Cougan with Wilson, I could not tell the 228 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:52.480 difference between the footage because it looked like it was 229 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.120 shot on the same stock, shot on the same day, 230 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.879 the same lighting. I mean, it just looked perfect. And 231 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.039 then you also start to add in like the footage 232 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.480 of the six pistols at the Hall in Manchester, now 233 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:09.200 that is very different the you know, it looks like 234 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:13.200 super eight of the sex pistols, and then it's much 235 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.399 better film quality or digital quality of the people in 236 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.600 the hall. But I love those like quick pans that 237 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:20.960 they'll do to go from the pistols to the people 238 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.600 in the hall, and you're really getting introduced to so 239 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.720 many of the characters, just in this very first scene 240 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.679 where it's like, oh, well, here's Andy Serkis, and here's Constantine, 241 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.799 and here's all these other people that you're going to 242 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.039 see through this whole film, and it's just like, wow, 243 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.279 this is really a smart way to introduce this and 244 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.240 to integrate that older footage. 245 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.440 That opening scene, I know was filmed on a sixteen millimeter, 246 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:48.519 so it matches perfectly there and you needed to do that. 247 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:52.600 Going in the RST obviously was shot digitally, and of 248 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.759 course this was made in like two thousand and two. 249 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:56.360 When it came out in two thousand and three, so 250 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:59.919 everyone was kind of reeling from twenty eight days later 251 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.039 and the fact that Danny Boyle went and made a 252 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.879 movie with video cameras. But it's my understanding what they 253 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.039 did here was they then transferred this to film and 254 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.360 then transferred it back to video so it would have 255 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.679 this pass through film so it could match a little 256 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.039 bit more. Because the scene you're talking about the Manchester 257 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:23.720 Free Trade Hall, the Sex Pistols first show where they 258 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.879 are blending it in some shots rather seamlessly, where we 259 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:29.240 get to a close up of the band and it's 260 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.440 clearly Johnny Rotten and then it switshpans so fast to 261 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:37.039 somebody in character sitting there watching that you could believe 262 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:38.919 that they had cameras there that night. 263 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.360 The thing I loved about these transitions between the real 264 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.399 footage and then the film footage is it never felt 265 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.240 to me like a gimmick or it ever felt like 266 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.759 the film was winking at me. It felt very natural, 267 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:59.919 not like say a Forest Gump where where they're trying 268 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:01.519 to show you how clever they are. 269 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.679 Yeah, I didn't get that. I did like two when 270 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.360 they go I think it's also in that same opening 271 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.360 sequence with the sex Pistols where it's like all of 272 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:12.799 these people are here watching this show. It's kind of 273 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.120 like when people talk about the Velvet Underground. Like when 274 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.000 people went to see the Velvet Underground, they went out 275 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.240 and they formed bands, and it was very similar to 276 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.320 this particular concert in Manchester Free Trade Hall where people 277 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:27.519 are seeing the sex Pistols and then pretty much everybody 278 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.519 that you see, what was it like all thirty eight 279 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:32.360 people or whatever forty five they all go off and 280 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.120 they do their things and we get to see John 281 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.360 the Mailman again. You get to see, you know, all 282 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.279 of these different people show up you know, the Andy 283 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.399 Serkis character Martin, Like they're all there and it's just 284 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:47.159 kind of this fire that gets lit under everybody. But 285 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.840 even during that sequence, it's like, you know, oh, you know, 286 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.679 this movie is about this, and it's about this, and 287 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:54.600 we'll talk about New Order and then they cut to 288 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.320 like a stadium scene of New Order playing and it's 289 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.000 the actual New Order. They'll show like the real Happy Mine, 290 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:00.679 I'm Nice playing. 291 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:02.120 I love that they do that. 292 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.799 And yeah, to your point, Axel doesn't feel like it's 293 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.200 that we're gonna stop dead and try to trick you 294 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.879 with this stuff. It's not cutesy or anything. It's just no, 295 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.879 this is a matter of fact. Like here we are 296 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:16.480 at this shitty little hall watching this band, and look 297 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.120 at what it leads to. Here's the stadium concert that 298 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.480 New Order put on. However, many years. 299 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.879 Later, it flat out tells you those guys over there, 300 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.840 they're way ahead of everybody. They're the Buzzcocks, and like 301 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.080 there's forty two people in the thing. The Buzzcocks are 302 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.519 one of them. Back there. Those guys they're wars Are 303 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:34.480 they're going to become Joy Division, they're going to become 304 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:36.399 New Order. These guys over here are going to be 305 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.480 a huge band of that, and the amount of people 306 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.559 who did become bands on that night is spectacular. I'm 307 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.559 going to keep saying lightning in a bottle with this movie, 308 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.080 But like you have this amazingly charismatic narrator, you can 309 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:50.120 hang the whole thing on who was present at this 310 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.879 event where all of these other bands proliferated all in Manchester. 311 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.799 I don't know, I'm getting ahead of it, but it's 312 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.919 just it's spectacular, like that all of these things came 313 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.639 together in this one moment, and that it's not the 314 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:03.519 end of the movie. 315 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.279 Well, and people are familiar with like Liverpool and everything, 316 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.200 but not necessarily familiar with the Manchester scene. And just 317 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:15.039 how again another city that was made by industry. And 318 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:16.799 I love that this is very much a love letter 319 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.720 to Manchester because we hear about the history of Manchester. 320 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.440 You know, you get that sequence with the canals and 321 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.960 all those things and that old guy who was working 322 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.759 on them back in nineteen hundred. But yeah, you get 323 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.119 all of this stuff about Manchester and how it was 324 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.079 once this thriving industrial city and now it's completely run down. 325 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:35.440 You know. 326 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.119 I think there's a reason why House was so popular 327 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:42.200 in places like Chicago and especially Detroit and Manchester, because 328 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.160 we kind of have similar vibes as far as once 329 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.799 a great city now really run down, kind of turning 330 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:52.359 to the music as somewhat of a salvation. And just 331 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:57.039 to have this whole idea of like the Pistols playing Manchester, 332 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.720 having like so few people showing up just makes sense. 333 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.119 But then to have this guy turn around and be 334 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.480 able to show them on television, be able to book 335 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.119 them on television, this little regional show. You know, I'm 336 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.839 sure it wasn't that little, but you know, we forget 337 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.759 about how like even though England is a pretty small place, 338 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.160 it's like, Okay, you got Granada TV over here, You've 339 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.000 got this television company over here, and just people in 340 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:24.960 the area were able to see this. It wasn't like 341 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.720 it was being broadcast across the entire country, much less 342 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:29.640 the entire continent. 343 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.640 It's like Tony Wilson had this little fiefdom. He was 344 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:38.799 a big fish and had a lot of gravitas. It 345 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.920 makes him a unique character. He's not Elvis Presley, He's 346 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.480 not an international hero. He's the right guy at the 347 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:47.160 right time. 348 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:49.759 No, the right guy at the right time, and then 349 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.799 bringing this music, this brand new music that really wasn't 350 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.240 getting I want to say, punk was banned from a 351 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.359 lot of the BBC, So him showing this stuff, showing 352 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:04.279 bands on Granada Television was a huge deal and it 353 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.279 was one of the few ways that people could actually 354 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.640 hear this new music. It's kind of like, you know, 355 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.440 we're talking a few months ago about college radio and 356 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:16.279 just how tough it was to hear new music when 357 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:19.720 you're younger and before you know, the advent of the 358 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.960 Internet and everything, where it's just like, well, where can 359 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.759 I even hear these records? Where can I see these bands? 360 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:29.799 And here's this guy showcasing these bands every single week 361 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:32.880 before he ends up, you know, getting fired from that. 362 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.200 I think it was because of Iggy Poppy got fired 363 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.839 from Granada or from that particular show, I should say. 364 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.079 So it goes and then kind of goes into more 365 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.759 of the music business itself, the music, the clubbing, those 366 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.799 kind of things. Still working at Granada Television. I think, 367 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.680 I don't know how many years after that. So when 368 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.599 they show those little, you know, slice of life clips 369 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:58.480 of him interviewing people and just like those you know, 370 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.160 five minutes before the evening news is over type of segments, 371 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.519 like the local color segments, and it's like that's how 372 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.599 he made his living for a long time. 373 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.480 And I love that. 374 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.319 I was watching a documentary about Wilson and they would 375 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.680 call those the let's kill Tony moments where they're trying 376 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.599 to get him, you know, involved in very dangerous things 377 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.839 like hang gliding, like you know, the elephant washing, those. 378 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.839 Kind of things. They gave him his own segment called 379 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.759 Kama Conzey. The hanglining segment was comic conzen. We're just 380 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.640 going to keep circling around Tony Wilson because he's unavoidable here. 381 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:35.519 But the love of the movie of Manchester is completely 382 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:39.359 born out of Tony Wilson's love of it. Like, you know, 383 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:42.119 he very easily could have shuffled off to London and 384 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.640 made a career there. You could have come to America 385 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.039 and been huge, I think as a presenter of something 386 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.880 or other, and he always stumped to that town. He 387 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.079 was always presenting bands from the town. And then when 388 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.920 he becomes from when he becomes a promoter and starts 389 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:59.559 hosting nights. When he becomes when it becomes factory, before 390 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.359 the hot the end of even it's all local talent, 391 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:05.480 and I mean to his dying day he stayed he 392 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:07.400 you know, he tried to get a film festival going 393 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.799 in Manchester. He was always, you know, just the biggest 394 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.359 booster of that town. So that's really admirable. The other thing, 395 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.240 I think we watched the same documentary What What sort 396 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.839 of came home for me watching that was as much 397 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:25.319 as we're talking about Steve Coogan and his performance here 398 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.880 Patty Considine as Rob Bretton, who is the manager of 399 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:34.319 Joy Division and eventually New Order, it is unchanny. I 400 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.279 don't think anyone here is doing a caricature. No one's 401 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:39.839