WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:03.279 Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.599 dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness, 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:10.800 and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host, 4 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.919 Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the 5 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:18.839 world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to 6 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.480 illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that 7 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.760 truly matter. Why are we here, where are we going? 8 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:30.160 And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and 9 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.840 our consciousness to the next level. This is a space 10 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.119 for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember 11 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.000 who you really are. 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The views opinions 21 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:19.959 and statements expressed by our guests are their own and 22 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:23.519 do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of Next 23 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.000 Level Soul, its host or any of the companies they represent. 24 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:31.560 Now let's dive in to today's episode. I like to 25 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:33.560 welcome the show, Ed Barnhart. How you doing, Ed, I'm 26 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:34.040 doing great. 27 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:34.920 Thanks for inviting me. 28 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.879 Thank you so much for coming on the show, my friend. 29 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:41.400 I am excited to talk to you about the Mayan history, 30 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:44.799 Mine Lost history, all the Minds are one of my 31 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:49.680 favorite cultures to study. Is one of the first ancient 32 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.680 civilizations I was exposed to. When I couldn't go to Egypt, 33 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:55.760 I was like, well, I'm in my twenties, let's go 34 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.280 down to Mexico. And that's what I went. And I 35 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.640 saw to Jenny, to loom Coba and a couple other 36 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.439 sites as well, and it really kind of changed my 37 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:09.840 perspective on ancient civilizations. So I am really excited to 38 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.199 talk to you. You are an expert in Mayan civilizations and 39 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.639 how many years have you been studying the Mayan culture 40 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:16.159 in general? 41 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:19.680 Oh? Gosh, you know, I get older every year. I 42 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.719 think it's over thirty years now. Wow. 43 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.680 Jeez. So my first question I have to ask you is, 44 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:29.199 you know, the when I was down in Chichuanitza and 45 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:34.800 I saw the pyramid and the observatory and that whole 46 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.280 area of that site, the one thing I kept thinking about, 47 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.080 even back when I was in my twenties, just like, 48 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:49.000 how is it that Egypt and the Mayans, and the Chinese, 49 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:53.039 and the Indonesians and the Japanese they all have pyramids, 50 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.439 but yet none of these cultures technically should have ever 51 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.960 known about each other or ever connected from your experience, 52 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:05.199 how do you explain that kind of coincidence. 53 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:08.360 If you will, Well, you know, I'm a dirt archaeologist, 54 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:11.439 so my explanation might be a little boring for your audience, 55 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.400 But I think it's basically trial and error. You know, 56 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.759 if you give a kid a set of blocks and 57 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:20.800 tell them to build the tallest structure he can, he 58 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.280 builds a tower a couple of times, but without rebar 59 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.039 and cement, it falls over. If you want to build 60 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.919 a tall structure that's not going to fall down without 61 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:33.319 cement or metal, then you're going to make a fat 62 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:36.000 base and you're going to build it up to the 63 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:40.000 tiny top. And that's how you make the biggest structure 64 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.719 in a very basic way. And I think the trial 65 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.159 and error for all of these groups, some of them dirt, 66 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:47.759 some of them stone, they figured that out. 67 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.840 Well, how do you explain, Like again, when I was 68 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.599 at to Janizza, the amount of the architecture of that 69 00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:00.400 one site is so remarkable, how tight everything thing is, 70 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.159 how beautifully is designed. How did the people of that 71 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:08.400 time build something so sophisticated to the point where, and 72 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.080 I'm sure you've done this, you sit at the steps 73 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.360 at the bottom and you clap your hands and you 74 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.439 hear the bird chirping kind of thing. That's a fairly 75 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:21.759 sophisticated building technique. You know that generally speaking can't be 76 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.199 I mean, I sure can be done today, but it 77 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.920 takes another level of engineering to do stuff like that. 78 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.360 How do you explain that? How they build it in general? 79 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.399 Well, you know the bird call thing aside. It really 80 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:40.839 chi Chen is a magnificent urban metropolis. That's what it is. 81 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:43.439 What you see as a tourist is just part of it. 82 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.000 It was a city of some thirty five thousand people, 83 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.920 and you know, for a radius away from the big 84 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.920 pyramid in the middle, there's buildings everywhere, So it's even 85 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.920 more impressive than people think. But you know, it's the 86 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:04.480 Maya as a culture, as a civilization went on. You know, really, 87 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.120 if we keep the clock going till today, they've been 88 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.079 at it for almost five thousand years. So by the 89 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.399 time Chichen Itza was built, let's say, you know, it's 90 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.399 it's post classic start was somewhere around nine hundred AD. 91 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:22.279 The Maya had been building pyramids for almost two thousand years. 92 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:26.759 So these guys stood upon the shoulders of giants who 93 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:32.160 created all of their engineering and architecture and probably transmitted 94 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:34.240 it through their hieroglyphic language. 95 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:36.480 Well that was This is the first time, and again 96 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.079 please excuse me, ignorance, this is the first time I've 97 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.079 heard that the Maya being that old of a culture, 98 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.399 you know, And so that's kind of new to me 99 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.800 because I haven't really I knew that they were, you know, 100 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:50.879 maybe a thousand years prior to you know, maybe around 101 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.199 the time of Jesus. Let's say that there was something starting. 102 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.759 But what you're saying is they're going back towards the 103 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.600 Egyptian times, you know. Yeah, actually that like five thousand 104 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.680 years back. So if my math is correct and I'm 105 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.160 not good at math. We're talking at about three thousand 106 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:09.240 BC is kind of where they started. Where are if 107 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.959 that's the case, and where are these other structures that 108 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.079 they've been building up that you found? 109 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.959 Oh oh, we have an entire chronological narrative of them. 110 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.920 You know, if we go back to three thousand BC, 111 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.120 people are building, you know, in the Maya highlands of 112 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.839 Guatemala and down by the coast, they're building the first 113 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.519 stone and dirt structures, and then you know, but as 114 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.879 we go up, we go into a culture called Mokaya, 115 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:39.439 and then we get into Maya, but that's still you know, 116 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.720 we're looking at a thousand BC, So three thousand years 117 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:50.279 ago they're building major pyramids in along the coast of 118 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:54.279 Chiappus and up into the highlands of Guatemala. At the 119 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:57.680 same time, the ole Nec culture is happening and making 120 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:02.720 their you know, colossal heads and these multi ton statues 121 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.120 that everybody's crazy about. That's going on too. And then 122 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:09.399 between them and some the other cultures like the Zapaitecs 123 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.439 and the people that are in the Valley of Mexico, 124 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:18.240 they start regularly building big stone pyramids and palaces and 125 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.839 ball courts, and all sorts of things. So, you know, 126 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.279 but let let me revise and say it was eighteen 127 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:30.160 hundred years before Cucinitza starts building their architecture, that the 128 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:35.680 Maya and their neighboring civilizations are experimenting with and improving 129 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:37.439 engineering and architecture. 130 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.480 Are The Almoics are fairly mysterious because there's not as 131 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.720 much information about them. They are a much older civilization 132 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.360 than the Maya or the Aztecs. 133 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:52.439 Correct, yes, some would call them the mother culture. They 134 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.800 are the first real ones to start putting out big, huge, 135 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:01.160 religious pieces of architecture. All of their buildings are packed earth, 136 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.680 which is a little a little strange that they would 137 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.319 drag a twenty ton monument into a plaza and then 138 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:12.439 build an earthen pyramid in front of it. It's a 139 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:16.800 little odd. It's explainable because there wasn't much stone where 140 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:21.199 they chose to live. But they are the oldest ones. Nowadays, 141 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.639 we have more of a nuanced understanding that they're kind 142 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.439 of interacting with the people that are the proto Maya 143 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:32.200 and the proto Zappaitechs and the proto kind of way 144 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:36.679 proto Aztecs in the same region. Valley of Mexico, and 145 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:39.600 so those cultures all kind of help each other up 146 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:42.159 in what we call the pre Classic. Then we hit 147 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.080 the Classic period where tons of Maya cities are being 148 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.440 built up in the jungles of the ten. They're also 149 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:54.360 all over Yucatan where chichen Itza is, but there are 150 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.320 other sites that are older around it that are less visited. 151 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.519 And then finally that all falls apart what we call 152 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.879 the classic Maya collapse, where all of those cities get 153 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:08.840 abandoned for reasons fully not understood still, and then they 154 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:11.679 evolve into this post classic form where in the Yucatan 155 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:14.279 Chia is the capital city. 156 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:18.039 So the collapse of the Maya, which is when I 157 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:19.960 was down there, that was something that they kept saying 158 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:22.720 a lot of my tour guide and stuff like, yeah, 159 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.879 they just disappeared. They just disappeared. And you know, we're 160 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.840 talking about essentially millions of people across across the continent. 161 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.480 I mean, it's a lot of people. It's not like 162 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.519 a village, it's a lot of people. I've heard an 163 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:41.600 explanation that it was possibly the Spanish who brought over 164 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.360 disease and just wiped out, wiped out large swaths of people, 165 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:48.639 is that something that makes sense or is there any. 166 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:54.840 Explore that indeed did happen, but at like fifteen hundred CE. Okay, 167 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:58.200 the famous Maya collapse where everybody just abandons the city 168 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.279 that happens between eight hundred and nine hundred a d 169 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:04.480 or CE. 170 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.039 And there's no explanation of it. 171 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:12.840 Well, you know, we have various theories suations, but big 172 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.840 cities winners that there was a big civil war between 173 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.720 the cities that basically were either team t Call or 174 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:24.240 Team klack Mule, the two big cities that finally settled out, 175 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.919 and it seemed like the winners would take their bigger 176 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.799 chunk of land and the other ones that'd be quiet 177 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.799 and be subsidiary. But instead everybody from the winners and 178 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:35.679 loser cities, those cities depopulate. 179 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.879 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 180 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.000 and now back to the show. 181 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.120 Really, and they don't put up any more monuments. There's 182 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.960 no more pyramids. They just walk away from them. Now, 183 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.279 the general population, they could have gone, you know, ten 184 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:00.919 ten kilometers out and started a little far and archaeology 185 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.080 had never see it. But where did all the ruling 186 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.159 class go. Some people think they filtered their way into 187 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:10.720 places like Yucatan and back down into the highlands of 188 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.600 Guatemala and started the post classic cities there. There's some 189 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:20.559 evidence to suggest lineages from those abandoned cities started places 190 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:21.480 like chichen Itza. 191 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.919 Wide leave. It's like essentially New York, New Yorkers leaving 192 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:29.440 New York and going down, going down to Colorado. 193 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:36.039 Uh. You know, a general societal wide loss of faith 194 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.000 in the power of these divine kings that could have 195 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.399 been a factor. There are environmental factors that people bring up. 196 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:48.720 Jared Diamond's books famously. He wrote one called Drought where 197 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.519 he suggests from meso America all the way up into 198 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:56.080 North America that there was this terrible period of drought 199 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:00.480 that destroyed all the civilizations at its time. It doesn't 200 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.639 really work like that, because there's tons of rivers that 201 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.440 they that they went away from, and a lot of 202 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:09.360 them clustered in one of the driest parts of the Yucatan, 203 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:12.440 so that the evidence that they ran because of climate 204 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.799 change doesn't fit everywhere. Again, the Maya world is so 205 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:21.960 huge to try to say one environmental factor affected the 206 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:24.799 people in the highlands and the lowlands on the coasts 207 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.759 and the Jungles, It's it's complicated. 208 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:29.799 It would it be the equivalent of something like that 209 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.600 happening to the United States. Let's say, like one event 210 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.000 has taken over, has taken the west coast, aust taken 211 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.039 the east coast, alst taking, taken the middle of the 212 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:39.840 country out. It's like it would have to be something 213 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:41.759 so massive that it wouldn't just happen to the United States, 214 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:43.200 who probably happened to the entire world. 215 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.080 Right, even in the drought hypothesis, there were parts of 216 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.440 the United States, like all the civilizations that grew up 217 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.840 around the Mississippi River that didn't miss a beat when 218 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.639 this drought period was there. It destroyed the American Southwest, 219 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:03.360 but it empowered the Mississippians. No, there was another culture. 220 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:08.399 Yeah, exactly, very different than the Mayan. Uh. Now, there 221 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.639 was something else I learned about, which is and I 222 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.480 don't know if the exact name of it, but the 223 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:17.039 black Earth that they figure out a way to create 224 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:22.200 to regenerate soil, to make it very fertile, and it 225 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.320 was and it was they found they have found it, 226 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.039 but we haven't been able to redo something like that, 227 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:31.200 and like making you know, a barren land fertile all 228 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:32.960 of a sudden with a technique. 229 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.759 If I understand what you're talking about right, you're talking 230 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:39.919 about the stuff specifically in the Amazon. 231 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:41.120 Yes, exactly in the Maya. 232 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.159 We don't have to guess whether there were people living 233 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.480 there that build pyramids on top of it. And the Amazon, 234 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.200 you know, we always had. The old theory was Betty 235 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:56.960 Metger's theory counterfeit paradise, that though it seemed so resource 236 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.320 rich that you couldn't possibly farm there. And then they 237 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.919 start finding all these archaeological sites where there's clearly farms, 238 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.840 and then there's some things where you know there's nobody there. 239 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:12.039 But what you're talking about this black earth that anthropology 240 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:17.759 calls it an anthropogenic landscape, that a huge area has 241 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:23.679 much much richer soil than it should. The idea, the 242 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:29.039 thought is that civilizations had actually been manipulating that soil 243 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:33.919 for thousands of years and it turned it into this 244 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:39.159 fertile soil. And the Amazonian tribes that sit on it 245 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:46.399 today and farm are farming basically in thousand year old mulch. 246 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.480 Which is why our. 247 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.919 Civilization that we don't see because it's a perishable world. 248 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.360 If they're all building their things out of wood and 249 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:59.759 feathers and pelts. All we're going to find is black dirt. 250 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:03.639 Right exactly from what I understand though, if you took 251 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.559 some of that black dirt now, even it's so fertile 252 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:10.200 that it can actually help regenerate other earth. It's like 253 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.399 a weird I saw something about that on a documentary somewhere, 254 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.240 maybe on the History Chattel or something, But. 255 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.759 Well, it is incredibly fertile. And I did a couple 256 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.120 of years back, I did a little boat trip up 257 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:26.519 the Amazon and into the Rio Negro side, specifically visiting 258 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.960 tribes and seeing where they lived. And every one of 259 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.039 these you know, really remote tribes could talk to me 260 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.080 intelligently about this black earth and that that's why they 261 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:38.639 put their village there, because it's a big, huge patch 262 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:40.679 of black earth and they can do all this farming, 263 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.000 and that they know that there are places along the 264 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.279 river that doesn't have the black earth, and that would 265 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.960 be a stupid place to build their village because they 266 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:53.320 can't farm. They are taking advantage of it. So in 267 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.879 many ways, you know, archaeologists got the idea to look 268 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.480 for this from the natives, which happens all too often. 269 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.480 An archaeolic there's always some you know, white guy in 270 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.080 a hat going I've discovered this with my little friend here, 271 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.519 who showed me where it is. 272 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.399 Exact, except I think that happens in all cultures essentially, 273 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.279 UH and all and all UH, in all findings in archaeology, 274 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.600 there generally seems to be that. And he jumped into 275 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.759 his indesia. So on. One thing I was going to 276 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:28.480 ask you is what, out of all the mysteries that 277 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.840 the minds have, and there are many, which is the 278 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.320 one that most intrigues you that it just keeps you 279 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.840 up at night, just like how is how did that happen? 280 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.440 Or where did that? Like questions that are just mysteries 281 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:40.600 that have not been solved yet. 282 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.960 Oh that's a good question, you know. I'm I'm a 283 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:47.240 math and science nerd, so I look a lot at 284 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.919 you know, the way their mathematics work, and their way 285 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:54.519 their astronomy works. I wonder things like that. I wonder, 286 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:59.159 you know, just how exactly they made their observations. I mean, 287 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.960 like way too deep into the mechanics of the Maya calendar. 288 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.839 And there's a couple of things that just make their 289 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.839 math break. If we take their word for how the 290 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:14.279 calendar works. There's this whole like the world resets at 291 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:19.079 thirteen bocktunes thirteen four hundred year periods. It doesn't actually 292 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.839 work with the rest of their math in many ways. 293 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.680 And there's such magnificent mathematicians. I can't imagine they got 294 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.079 it wrong. It bugs me that I'm probably getting it wrong. 295 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.599 There are things even with it. For a guy like 296 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.480 me that has studied it for twenty years, I'm still 297 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:39.559 scratching my head about, you know, certain aspects of their math. 298 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:45.160 Another one is the Dresden Codex's Venus pages. Teams of 299 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.400 people for generations now have been trying to decode the 300 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:53.440 entire meaning of the math that lies beneath it, and 301 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:55.000 they're still unanswered questions. 302 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:01.599 How could a culture that quote unquote primitive comparatively to 303 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.279 where we are today have such an advanced understandings of 304 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:07.440 mathematic and astronomy. 305 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:12.119 Well, I mean, you know, I would respectfully say, sometimes 306 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.319 we need to rethink our definition of primitive, because those 307 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.759 guys were just as smart as we are. And the Maya, 308 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.880 unlike a lot of the North, the American cultures created 309 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:27.559 a writing system, so they actually had the ability for 310 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.440 one generation to do studying of the sky and take 311 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.960 notes and do math, and then hand it to the 312 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.839 next generation who continues the observations and after a while 313 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.000 you get pretty darn good at it. They get a 314 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.920 foundation of knowledge which they build, and probably writing was 315 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.400 a big part of that, but also they just had 316 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.920 a mentality to understand their universe. They probably did it, 317 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.279 you know, in the search for God rather than science 318 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:58.880 like we think we're doing these days. 319 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.759 Well, the thing is one thing that was always fascinated 320 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.079 me about the Maya as well, is that, and especially 321 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.160 some of the pyramids and structures that they built, they're 322 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.079 all so perfectly aligned to the stars at a level 323 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.119 that is almost perfection, to where the equinox, the solar 324 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.200 equinox and the lunar equinox create that dragon that comes 325 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.640 down the steps. If I'm not mistaken, it's the equinoxes 326 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:26.400 that create that twice a year. Yeah, yeah, the snake, 327 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.079 excuse me, not dragon, but this, Yeah, the snake out 328 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:33.440 of the stairs. The amount of the amount of intelligence 329 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:38.240 and knowledge and engineering to do something like that at 330 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:43.319 that time period seems insane to do. And as well 331 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.960 as the as well as the bird clap thing, like 332 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:47.960 I still. You know, if you could explain that to me, 333 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.160 I'd be really interested they did that. 334 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.519 You know, I'm not sure about the bird clap. There's 335 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:54.759 a that's in a lot of Maya sites, and there 336 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:58.519 there's a quality where stone will bounce off and and 337 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.000 echo the you know, the the Greeks did it too, 338 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:06.359 on purpose, to a great extent in their theaters and auditoriums. 339 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.160 Sometimes when the. 340 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.519 Will be right back after a word from our sponsor 341 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:17.640 and now back to the show. 342 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.400 When the sound bounces off a building like that, you 343 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.160 know the the uh the guides always say it's the 344 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:29.640 it's the voice of a catsal. Yeah, you know you 345 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.400 know why they say it's the voice of a catsal. 346 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.680 Nobody's ever heard. 347 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:34.000 Of cats and. 348 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.519 We will buy it. Yeah, but very few people know 349 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.119 what the heck of ketsal sounds like. It's it's a 350 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.240 cool effect. I do not know whether the ancient Maya 351 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:46.839 meant it to sound like a bird, much less a 352 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.359 catsal or. 353 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.400 Even But it's like if you but you have to 354 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.240 stand at this one space up the stairs perfectly a 355 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:54.960 line if you move over five feet and move over 356 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.559 five doesn't work. But anyway, but how but that's that's 357 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.119 that's that's almost a parlor trick comparatively to understanding the 358 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.880 stars and understanding the equinoxes and how the sun is 359 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.920 going to lie it hit the pyramid at a certain 360 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.359 time period to create this effect of the snake. How 361 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.720 do how do you explain or is there an explanation 362 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.920 of how they understood the stars so well? 363 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:21.000 Well, it's certainly the arrangements of the buildings at certain 364 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:24.400 sites like Chichinitza and this example with the snake coming 365 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.920 down at equinox. That is, you know, that's urban planning. 366 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:31.000 That is somebody getting out there with a crew and 367 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:35.920 an engineer and workers and looking at where the shadows 368 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:41.000 will land, first making models and then and then perfecting it. 369 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.319 It took a lot of organization. They were a very organized, 370 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:50.240 smart people, and you know they were also on agricultural people. 371 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.480 So things with the sun are what most we see 372 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:56.039 when we talk about alignments of buildings. It's a lot 373 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.759 of the sun like this example, but not much of 374 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.200 the planets. Only a little bit of that that we 375 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.359 find in their books, we find their calculations. But they 376 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:07.680 were so in the sun was so important because of 377 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:13.720 the agricultural cycle, and so the march was the beginning 378 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:18.720 of a season of the cycle. So they would all 379 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:21.440 get together to celebrate that would. 380 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:25.400 There be an instant and correct me if I'm wrong. 381 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:29.039 If the priests, let's say, of the culture, the higher 382 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:32.039 the the the royalty, whatever you'd like to call it, 383 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.359 understood things that that they had access to the books, 384 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.119 had access to the knowledge, and they knew that if 385 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.039 they stand at the top of the pyramid at this day, 386 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.599 at this time, the sun's going to come through and 387 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:50.200 create this this kind of shining light and almost godlike 388 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.759 image would appreciate it. He would, let's say that ruler 389 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.359 would say on Tuesday at six o'clock, I will show 390 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.920 you my power, and they would there and do that, 391 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.359 and everybody will go, oh, is that something that is 392 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:06.920 that something that would have would have happened back then? 393 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.000 Well, it's possible. Uh, we you know, we really are 394 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.839 all recreating the what would have happened. I prefer to 395 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.880 look at it somewhat the opposite that if the majority 396 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:25.319 of Maya are corn farmers, every farmer I've ever met 397 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.799 knows exactly on his own, on his own land, when 398 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:30.759 to plant and when to sew. He says, you know, 399 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.319 when the sun comes up over that hill there, it's 400 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.359 time to plant, and when it sits over near that tree, 401 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.880