Speaker 1: Imagine a stack of paper. And I don't mean, you know,
a neat little folder you'd slide into a briefcase. We
need it. No, I mean a tower, thousands and thousands
of pages, just a physical monument to secrets. Now imagine
that within that huge stack of documents, the specific word
Moscow appears nearly ten thousand times.
Speaker 2: That is, that's a staggering number. It's a frequency that
suggests something far beyond say a vacation preference. It's suggests
an obsession or well, maybe an operation exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's not just geography we're dealing with here.
We are looking at a roster of names that reads
less like a party list and more like a map
of the entire global power structure. You've got a less celebrities,
titans of industry, world leaders, and actual royalty.
Speaker 2: It is really, in the truest sense, an anatomy of influence.
And if we're being honest about what we're looking at today,
it's an anatomy of compromise.
Speaker 1: Welcome to thrilling Threads. I'm your host, and today we
are pulling at the loose ends of perhaps the darkest,
most tangled story of the modern era.
Speaker 2: And I'm here to help trace where those threads actually
lead and hopefully untangle some of those knots along the way.
Speaker 1: Today we are definitely taking on a heavy one. We
are pulling about the latest massive release of the Jeffrey
Epstein Files.
Speaker 2: It is heavy, but it is absolutely necessary. For years,
this story has been governed by rumor, by innuendo, by
Internet sleuths connecting you know, red string on corkboards. Now
we actually have the text and.
Speaker 1: That's the mission. Today we're analyzing this massive release, and
we had to give a huge shout out and credit
to the incredible breakdown by Jesse Weber on sidebar from
the Long Crime Network. It's really our primary roadmap and
source for this discussion.
Speaker 2: It's an invaluable resource for sure.
Speaker 1: We're asking a simple but well a terrifying question. Do
these new documents confirm the wildest conspiracy theories out there?
Or do they finally put them to rest.
Speaker 2: It's a crucial distinction, isn't it. We live in an
age of memes and viral misinformation, but today we're not
looking at Reddit threads or some four Chan rumor. We're
looking at the Epstein Files Transparency Act material. This is
what the Department of Justice was legally forced to hand over.
Speaker 1: So for you listening who might be thinking, oh, I've
heard it all before, it's just a list of bad guys.
I promise you you haven't heard it like this. We
are not just reading names, not at all. We're reading
the raw text. We're reading email send it two in
the morning. We are looking at flight logs, and maybe
most controversially, we are looking at the raw unverified tips
sent to the FBI.
Speaker 2: And that is where we have to be so disciplined.
We're going to separate what is a verified email, something
written by the hand of a billionaire, from what is
an unverified tip someone called in right, because that difference
it changes the entire reality of the case.
Speaker 1: It really really does. So let's get into it. Let's
start with the first thread, the one everyone was waiting for,
the names.
Speaker 2: The expectation leading up to this release was that this
would be the Rosetta stone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it would finally name names in the handcuffs
would come out immediately, And in many ways it did
nin names, but maybe not in the way people expected.
It wasn't a list of convictions. It was a list
of I don't know the banality of complicity.
Speaker 2: That's the perfect phrase for it, the banality of complicity.
It showed us how these people actually spoke to each other.
Speaker 1: And the first name that really just stopped me in
my tracks because it was so unexpected was Peter Atia.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is a name that resonates very differently than
say a politician or a movie star. Right, if you
follow the health and wellness space, Peter Atia is. He's
a god.
Speaker 1: He's the live Longer guy, the optimization guru. He was
a contributor for CBS News. He writes best selling books
on how to Live to be one hundred.
Speaker 2: He's the guy telling you to sleep eight hours and
watch your glue coat exactly.
Speaker 1: And suddenly we find out he has mentioned almost two
thousand times in these files.
Speaker 2: Two thousand times. That is not a casual acquaintance. That
indicates a frequency of contact that goes far beyond oh
I met him at a.
Speaker 1: Cocktail party, one oh way beyond.
Speaker 2: We're looking at a constant stream of emails, specifically from
twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: And the content of these emails. Look, we promise we
get into the text. This isn't pleasant, but we have
to look at it to understand the dynamic.
Speaker 2: Here we do.
Speaker 1: There is an email from February twenty sixteen where Attie
is writing to Epstein and he makes a comment about
a woman, specifically, he refers to her private parts as
being low carb.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's just a crude, objectifying attempt at humor. But
notice the language he's using. Ohy, he is using his
own brand, this health talk diet optimization to demean a
human being. It's a way of signaling I am part
of the club. I get it. I can speak your language.
Speaker 1: And he adds still the waiting results on gluten content.
Speaker 2: Though hearing that read out loud, it's just gross. It
makes my skin crawl, it does. But it's the banality
of it that gets me. They're talking about human beings
like they're items on a brunch menu, like they're ordering
a sandwich.
Speaker 1: That is the chilling part. It reveals a mindset where
people are commodities. It strips the humanity away completely. But
there's another email from twenty to fifteen that I think
is even more revealing about the psychology of the people
in Epstein's orbit.
Speaker 2: Puts out on Atia writes to Epstein and he says, quote,
the biggest problem with becoming friends with you is that
the life you lead is so outrageous, and yet I
can't tell a soul.
Speaker 1: I can't tell a soul. Wow. That is the sound
of someone realizing they have stepped into a world that
cannot exist in the light of day.
Speaker 2: Precisely, it acknowledges the secrecy. It acknowledges that what's happening
is outrageous. It creates a bond of silence right there.
Speaker 1: It's almost a confession of complicity in the very act
of writing it.
Speaker 2: It is it's saying, I know this is wrong, or
at least impossible to explain to normal people, but I
am here anyway.
Speaker 1: Now. To be fair to the current context, Atia has
addressed this head on.
Speaker 2: He has.
Speaker 1: He went on x formerly Twitter and issued a pretty
lengthy apology. He called the exchange juvenile. He said he
was ashamed, but he was very, very firm on one thing.
He denies any criminal activities as he never went to
the island, never participated.
Speaker 2: In the abuse, and that is a pattern we are
going to see repeatedly today. I was there, but I
wasn't there defense or I was friends with the money
and not the man. However, the professional fallout has been real.
He stepped down from his role at a snack bar company,
David Protein.
Speaker 1: Right, and there are reports that a sixty minute segment
featuring him was pulled from the schedule.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: It just shows that, even if you aren't charged with
a crime, the associational alan is toxic radioactive wys.
Speaker 2: At this point, as it should be, complicity has a cost.
When you normalize a predator by engaging in that kind
of locker room talk with him, you are part of
the ecosystem that allows him to thrive.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. Let's move to the sports world.
This one really highlights the transactional nature of these relationships.
Steve Tish, the co owner of the New York Giants.
Speaker 2: This series of emails is a case study in how
Epstein operated as a well like a concierge of companionship,
for lack of a better tear.
Speaker 1: A dark concierge. Yeah. There's this exchange where Tish is
asking about a specific woman. He bluntly asks Epstein if
she is a pro or civilian.
Speaker 2: Let's just pause on that language, pro or civilian. It
implies that in their world, women fall into two binary categories,
those you pay and those you what, manipulating?
Speaker 1: Yeah right, or those who aren't in the life.
Speaker 2: It just strips away all humanity and replaces it with
a status check. It's military terminology applied to sexual access.
It's incredibly bleak.
Speaker 1: And Epstein's reply is just wow. He writes back, I
don't like records of these conversations.
Speaker 2: Which is irony of the absolute highest.
Speaker 1: Order, the ultimate irony. We are reading that very sentence
and a release federal record. It's like a joke written
by a screenwriter, but it's real life.
Speaker 2: It shows consciousness of guilt, or at the very least,
consciousness of risk. You don't mind a record if you're
talking about setting up a blind date for a friend. Yeah,
you mind a record when or navigating the gray areas
of legality and reality. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1: There are other descriptions in their emails that just they
just make your skin crawl. Epstein describing a Ukrainian girl
as a character and.
Speaker 2: A ten and a Russian woman who rarely tells the
full truth but fun.
Speaker 1: It's just disgusting, And the advice he gives Tish is
so tactical. He tells him to go slow because the
woman was freaked by the age difference.
Speaker 2: Preached by the age difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a red flag waving in hurricane force wins.
Speaker 2: It suggests coercion. It suggests that the woman is not
entirely comfortable, and Epstein is coaching Tish on how to
manage that discomfort to get what he wants exactly.
Speaker 1: He's acting like a handler, he is.
Speaker 2: He is teaching a powerful man how to overcome the
natural hesitation of a younger woman. It's predatory.
Speaker 1: Now Tish has defended himself. Yeah, he gave a statement
to CBS saying they were only discussing adult women, yes,
and that they talked about movies and philanthropy. He says
he regrets the association, but reading pro or civilian, I mean,
it's hard to square that with philanthropy.
Speaker 2: It creates a massive cognitive dissonance. You have the public
image of the benevolent team owner, the pillar of the community,
and then the private reality of a man shopping for
human beings via email.
Speaker 1: Speaking of public images, we have to talk about the
Hollywood threads, the visual evidence. There's a photo of Brett Ratner,
the director. He's sitting on a couch hugging a woman.
Her face is redacted, of course, and sitting right next
to them is Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2: Ratner's defense on this is well, it's interesting. He claims
the woman was his fiance from twenty years ago and
could get this. He claims he didn't even know Epstein.
Speaker 1: How how do you sit on a couch next to
someone in what looks like a private setting, shoulder to
shoulder and not know them.
Speaker 2: It's a very difficult claim to maintain when the photographic
evidence implies some kind of intimacy or the very least
a shared social space.
Speaker 1: It's absurd.
Speaker 2: Speaks to how people are trying to actively rewrite their
own histories to scrub Epstein out of them. It's historical
revisionism in real time. I wasn't there, and if I was,
I didn't know him, and if I knew him, I
didn't like him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the playbook. Then there's Brian Vickers, the NASCAR driver.
This one is just bizarre. He's sending Epstein a sexually
explicit male fairy tale. What even is that?
Speaker 2: In a Valentine's Day video, Happy Valentine's buddy. It shows
a level of camaraderie that goes way beyond business.
Speaker 1: It's weirdly intimate, it is.
Speaker 2: But the vicar's story gets darker and more complicated when
you look at his ex wife. She was accused of
coordinating meetups for Epstein.
Speaker 1: But she claims she was a victim herself, right.
Speaker 2: Correct, And that is the complexity of the Epstein web.
The line between accomplice and victim is often incredibly blurred.
Deyslayne Maxwell is the prime example, obviously, but there are
others who were recruited, abused, and then turned into recruiters themselves.
Speaker 1: It's a cycle of abuse.
Speaker 2: It's a cycle of abuse that Epstein weaponized to protect himself.
If everyone is guilty, no one talks.
Speaker 1: Before we leave this whole name segment, I have to
mention Woody Allen because Epstein. I don't know if he
was trying to be funny or if he was just
being a complete monster. But there's an email where he
jokes about a pedophile convention.
Speaker 2: Yes, someone emailed him using that phrase pedophile convention, and
Epstein replied, I think pedophile is.
Speaker 1: The plural the gall It's almost like he was flaunting
it like he was so untouchable he could make grammatical
jokes about the very thing he was accused of.
Speaker 2: It displays a profound, profound arrogance, a belief that the
rules of society and the moral judgment of society simply
did not apply to him.
Speaker 1: He was on a different plane.
Speaker 2: He was operating on a different plane entirely. It's the
humor of a sociopath.
Speaker 1: Which brings us perfectly to the next group, the people
who really truly think the rules don't apply to them,
the titans of tech in industry.
Speaker 2: Yes, if the first segment was about the banality of complicity,
this segment is about the arrogance of intellect. How the
smartest in the room navigated or failed to navigate Epstein's orbit.
Speaker 1: And we have to start with Bill Gates. This has been,
i mean, a slow burned pr disaster for him for years.
But these files added some very specific, very weird details.
Speaker 2: The Russian girls allegation.
Speaker 1: Right, Epstein claiming that Gates needed STD medication for an
issue involving Russian girls.
Speaker 2: Now we have to treat this with caution. This is
Epstein talking about Gates to a third party.
Speaker 1: Right, It's secondhand.
Speaker 2: It's gossip from within the files. We don't have a
medical record, but it aligns with a broader pattern of
Epstein trying to hold leverage over powerful men. He wanted
people to think he knew their secrets.
Speaker 1: And speaking of leverage, the draft email, this is one
of the most baffling documents in the whole release. Can
you just walk us through this, because when I read
about this in the Long Crime Breakdown, I had to
read it like three times.
Speaker 2: It is truly bizarre. Epstein wrote a draft email on
behalf of a Gates advisor. He essentially wrote a confession
letter for this advisor to send to the Gates Foundation.
Speaker 1: He wrote a confession for someone else. And what did
this confession say?
Speaker 2: It was incredibly damaging. In the draft Epstein has this
advisor admitting to moral failure, admitting to helping Gates get
drugs and this is the crucial part facilitating trysts with
married women.
Speaker 1: Why on earth would Epstein write that? Why would he
draft a letter destroying someone else's reputation?
Speaker 2: That is the million dollar question. Expert analysis suggests it
was a form of blackmail disguised as assistants. What do
you mean by writing it down and sending it as
a draft. Epstein is essentially saying, I know all of this,
I have this information. Look how easily I can destroy you.
Look how detailed my file on you is.
Speaker 1: It's a power move. Yeah, it's a threat. I hold
your reputation in my hands.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It forces the recipient to realize that Epstein isn't
just a friend. He's a vault that could burst open
at any moment. And we've seen the fallout in Gates'
personal life.
Speaker 1: We have Melinda Gates recently spoke about this on NPR's
wild Card podcast. She did, and her reaction was just heartbreaking.
She didn't talk about the legalities or the money. She
focused entirely on the victim. She said, my god, how
did that happen to those girls?
Speaker 2: And she explicitly said that Bill needs to answer for himself.
She has moved on, she's divorced him, but she left
that burden firmly at his feet. She made it crystal
clear that his association with Epstein was a breaking point
for her.
Speaker 1: And of course, Gates's spokesperson calls all these claims absurd
and false, but the smoke around this is just it's
so thick, it's choking.
Speaker 2: And then there's Elon Musk, the man.
Speaker 1: Who is never far from a headline. The files show
emails from twenty twelve and twenty thirteen regarding a visit
to the island.
Speaker 2: There are references to kumfu practice and emails coordinating helicopter
rides sent by Jay Vacation, which was one of Epstein's aliases.
Speaker 1: Jay Vacation sounds like a bad movie villain, But there's
a specific request from Musk that gets mentioned. He allegedly
asked Epstein what day the Wildest Party would be.
Speaker 2: Now Musk's defenses, it's very characteristic of him. He's aggressive.
He claims he never went. He calls Epstein a creep.
He says he pushed for the file release to clear
his own name, and.
Speaker 1: To be fair, the flight logs don't show him on
the plane in the same way they show other people.
Speaker 2: That's true, But asking about the Wildest Party it suggests
a certain curiosity. At the very very least, it suggests
he knew what Epstein's brand was. You don't ask a
financial advisor about the Wildest Party unless you know that
party implies something specific in their world.
Speaker 1: Right, It implies he knew the reputation and was inquiring
about the menu so to speed you exactly. So we
got the tech bros, the Hollywood directors, the sports owners.
But now we have to step into the most volatile
arena of all politics, polatives.
Speaker 2: This is where we have to be extremely disciplined with
our source material, because the political firestorm is fueled by
a mix of confirmed facts and unverified raw data.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Donald Trump. His name appears, it's in
the files, but we need to be very clear about
what documents he appears in.
Speaker 2: Crucially, a significant portion of the Trump mentions come from
the FBI tips logs.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this for the listener. What exactly is
an FBI tip log in this context.
Speaker 2: It's essentially the raw intake valve of the FBI. These
are calls or messages sent to the National Threat Operations Center.
Anyone can send one. You could send one right now,
I could send one. They are completely unverified. They are leads,
not evidence.
Speaker 1: And the dog actually issued a warning about this, right.
Speaker 2: They did, and it's so important. They noted that some
tips might be fake or politically motivated, especially since many
were submitted right before the twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Election, which makes sense.
Speaker 2: They explicitly stated that if these tips had real credibility,
they likely would have been weaponized already during the campaigns.
Speaker 1: That's a key point. If there was a smoking gun
in a tip from twenty twenty, we probably would have
seen it fired by now. But the allegations in these tips,
they are extremely graphic.
Speaker 2: They are very, very disturbing. There's a tip alleging an
incident with a thirteen or fourteen year old girl in
New Jersey about thirty five years ago. Yeah, allegations of biting,
being hit, being forced to perform acts. It's horrible stuff.
Speaker 1: And there was another tip about a sex trafficking ring
at a Trump golf course in the mid nineties. Yeah,
with Ghisling Maxwell acting as the madam.
Speaker 2: Again, we have to stress these are raw tips. They
lack herroboration in the files that have been released. We
don't have flight logs putting him there at those specific
times in these documents, but they are part of the
record now. They are part of the thread that we
are pulling.
Speaker 1: It's a thread that leads into a dark room. But
we don't have a flashlight yet. We just know the
allegations are there written down in an FBI log.
Speaker 2: And it's not just American politics. The international scope is stunning.
Speaker 1: I know the Crown Princess of Norway Metmerit.
Speaker 2: She had to issue an apology. She admitted she didn't
do her due diligence before meeting with them, which.
Speaker 1: Just shows how Epstein collected royalty like trophies.
Speaker 2: Absolutely he wanted legitimacy, and royalty is the ultimate legitimacy.
If you're standing to a princess, people assume you must
be a good guy.
Speaker 1: And Mirislavolagekac from Slovakia resigned, Sultan Bensulaim from the UAE
making comments about Moldavian versus Ukrainian women.
Speaker 2: It just reinforces that Epstein was running a global operation.
He wasn't just a New York financier with a plane.
He was a node in a worldwide network of powerful
people who felt comfortable discussing human beings as commodities.
Speaker 1: He was the connector which brings us to the most
thrilling and frankly terrifying threat of all, the one that
reads like a cold Wars buy novel, the Russian Connection.
Speaker 2: This is the theory that transforms Epstein from a pervert
into a potential intelligence asset.
Speaker 1: The data is just, it's overwhelming. Vladimir Putin is named
nearly one thousand times in these documents. The word Moscow
appears nearly ten thousand times.
Speaker 2: Just the volume alone demands an explanation. You don't mention
Moscow ten thousand times if you're just buying vodka. No,
that is a substantial, sustained focus. It's just business or
strategy or influence.
Speaker 1: Epstein seemed absolutely obsessed with meeting Putin. There are emails
with someone named Igor about booking tickets to Russia.
Speaker 2: And correspondence with Ehudubarik, the former Israeli Prime minister, about
meeting Putin at an economic conference. Epstein wanted to, and
this is a quote, reinvent the Russian financial system.
Speaker 1: Reinvent the Russian financial system. That's not a hobby, that's
a geopolitical goal.
Speaker 2: And this is where we have to look at the
kompromat angle. Kompromat is the Russian term for compromising material
used for blackmail. It is a staple of Russian intelligence tradecraft.
Speaker 1: It's what they do.
Speaker 2: It's their bread and butter.
Speaker 1: And the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk. He didn't mince
words about this at all.
Speaker 2: No, he was very direct. He said, there is a
suspicion that the entire scandal was co organized by Russian
intelligence services.
Speaker 1: Co organized. That word is chilling. It implies Epstein wasn't
just a useful idiot. It implies he was an active
participant in a state sponsored operation.
Speaker 2: And think about the implication of that. If Tusk is right,
then the goal wasn't just sexual gratification for a few
powerful men. The goal is to trap Western leaders, scientists,
and businessmen in compromising situations, film them and store that leverage.
Speaker 1: And if Russia was involved, that means the tapes, if
they exist, they aren't just in an FBI vault somewhere
in Quantico. No, they could be in Moscow.
Speaker 2: And that means they could be used against leaders who
are active today. That is the terrifying part of this
leverage doesn't expire. A video from two thousand and five
is just as damaging in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: We also have to connect this to Gislaine Maxwell. Her
father Robert Maxwell.
Speaker 2: A fascinating and shadowy figure, a media tycoon who died
under very mysterious circumstances falling off his yacht. He was
long alleged to have links to Masad, the Israeli intelligence agency,
and the KGB. He was a man who walked between worlds.
Speaker 1: And there's an email where Epstein claims Robert Maxwell threatened Massad.
He said he would expose all if they didn't save
his crumbling empire.
Speaker 2: So you have Gislaine, the daughter of a suspected superspy,
teaming up with Epstein, who is obsessed with Russia and
Putin to build this network of blackmail targets.
Speaker 1: It starts to look less like a crime ring and
more like an intelligence operation.
Speaker 2: It really does. Does this explain why he seemed so
immune for so long?
Speaker 1: It's compelling theory, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It is intelligence assets often enjoy a layer of protection
that normal criminals do not. If he was useful to
a foreign state or even a domestic agency, it would
explain the sweetheart deals, the lack of investigation, the whole
look the other way culture that surrounded him for decades.
Speaker 1: It turns the whole story on its head. He wasn't
just a rich predator. He was a honey trap.
Speaker 2: A honey trap on an industrial global scale, speaking.
Speaker 1: Of people who walked right into that trap. M. We
have to go back to the Palace, Prince Andrew.
Speaker 2: The Palace and the Prince. This relationship is the one
that arguably destroyed a reputation more thoroughly than any other.
It is just a total car crash.
Speaker 1: We knew they were friends, that wasn't new, but the
files were the timeline of that friendship is even worse
than we thought.
Speaker 2: That's correct. We learned from these documents that Andrew invited
Epstein to Buckingham Palace after Epstein's release from house arrest
in twenty.
Speaker 1: Ten, after after he was a convicted registered sex offender.
Speaker 2: And Andrew writes, delighted for you to come here to BP,
come with whomever peep.
Speaker 1: He calls Buckingham Palace BP like it's a corner pub,
and come with whoever. He is literally rolling out the
red carpet for a registered sex offender at the home
of the British monarchy. It's insane.
Speaker 2: And Epstein wasn't just coming for tea. He was offering
to set Andrew up. There's mention of a twenty six
year old Russian woman described as clever and beautiful.
Speaker 1: Again with the Russians is everywhere you look at these files.
Speaker 2: It is a recurring motif. It absolutely suggests the honey
trap was being actively deployed against the Prince.
Speaker 1: And then there's the photo, the one that's been referred
to as the kick photo, or rather the photo of
Andrew on all fours.
Speaker 2: It's a deeply disturbing image Andrew on all fours over
a female. It strips away every last ounce of royal dignity.
It is primal and it is degrading. It's the visual
representation of a total moral collapse.
Speaker 1: But there is a theory in these files that is
even wilder than the photos, the secret baby theory.
Speaker 2: This one is truly out there, but the source material
supports the existence of the discussion. We're not making this up.
There are emails involving Sarah Ferguson Fergie, the Duchess of York, and.
Speaker 1: What do they say? She writes to Epstein about a
baby boy.
Speaker 2: She writes, heard from the Duke that you've had a
baby boy. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's weird.
Speaker 2: But then later there's another email from Ferguson saying I
did not even know you were having a baby.
Speaker 1: Wait, what that's a total contradiction.
Speaker 2: It's a very confusing exchange. Was it a real baby?
Was baby a code word for something else. If it
was a real child, that child would be around fifteen
years old.
Speaker 1: Now imagine that a fifteen year old heir to the
Epstein legacy. And the source material connects this to a
diary entry from one of the victims who described feeling
like a human incubator.
Speaker 2: And Epstein's known obsession with eugenics. He talked openly about
seating the human race with his DNA, creating a superior
gene pool.
Speaker 1: It's like something out of a sci fi horror movie.
A secret baby, a human incubator, a superior gene pool.
It's almost too much to process.
Speaker 2: It speaks to his staggering narcissism. He didn't just want
to control people in the present. He wanted to control
life itself. He wanted to play god.
Speaker 1: Well his life ended in a jail cell, or did it.
Let's talk about the end of the line, murder versus suicide.
Speaker 2: For a long time, Epstein didn't kill himself. Was just
a meme, you know, a T shirt slogan. But these
files introduced a new piece of evidence that really changes
the calculus.
Speaker 1: The cooperation bombshell.
Speaker 2: Yes, FBI records indicate that Epstein's lawyers were discussing a
resolution and cooperation with federal prosecutors just days before his death,
specifically on July twenty nine, twenty.
Speaker 1: Nineteen July twenty ninth. He died on August tenth, so
less than two weeks before he died, he was actively
talking about flipping exactly.
Speaker 2: Cooperation in federal terms usually means one thing, you're providing
substantial assistance. You're naming names, you're revealing structures, you're opening
the books.
Speaker 1: So if he was about to talk, if he was
about to hand over the compromat, the motive for murder
just skyrockets.
Speaker 2: It goes from being convenient for his associates to being
necessary for anyone who was deeply implicated. If he was
the vault and that vault was about to be opened,
someone might have decided to just blow up the vault.
Speaker 1: What do we know about his last night? He made
a phone call right.
Speaker 2: A twenty minute call to his secret girlfriend, Coriina Shuliac.
We don't know the content of that call. Was he
saying goodbye or was he discussing the terms of his deal.
Was it business as usual? It's a huge blank spot
in the record.
Speaker 1: And then there's the whole body double theory. I always
thought this was pure tinfoil hat stuff, but the files
actually mentioned something that fueled it.
Speaker 2: They do. The documents note that the jail used boxes
and sheets to simulate a body in a white van,
specifically to trick the media.
Speaker 1: To trick the media, so everyone on the news saw
a body leave in a white van, but it was.
Speaker 2: Just laundry pretty much, and the actual body was moved
separately in a black car. Now, the official reason is
for crowd control and to maintain some dignity for the deceased.
But come on, but when you run a decoy operation
with a corpse, you invite conspiracy theories. It makes people
ask was the body in the black car even him?
Was he spirited away?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a potential intelligence asset for a
foreign government, getting extracted from a Manhattan jail cell isn't
totally impossible, is it?
Speaker 2: It is highly highly unlikely. But the clumsiness, or perhaps
the cunning of the jail officials created a vacuum where
these theories could thrive and grow.
Speaker 1: And what about the note, the suicide note. The investigators
remarked on it.
Speaker 2: They did. They said, his final communication didn't look like
a note someone would leave if they were ending their life.
It didn't fit the psychological profile of a typical seusice
side note.
Speaker 1: It just adds another layer to the mystery. He was
ready to talk and then he was silenced one.
Speaker 2: Way or another, and with him the immediate threat to
his powerful friends vanished.
Speaker 1: One last theory we absolutely need to touch on. It's
the one that lived on the Internet for years and
became this huge cultural flashpoint, Pizzagate.
Speaker 2: Right, this is a prime example of how internet culture
collides with the text of these files.
Speaker 1: Now, to be clear, the theory was that there was
this specific ring operating out of a GC pizzeria. The
files say there is no evidence of that specific ring.
Speaker 2: Correct. The source material is very clear, no evidence of
the basement, the pizzeria, or the specific politicians named in
that original online theory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the code words, the weird language.
Speaker 2: They are there, they are there. There are very strange
references to pizza in the emails, things like molded dough
that you put pizza, sauce and cheese.
Speaker 1: On, which is just a bizarre way to describe a pizza, right,
and then there's the description of a pregnant woman.
Speaker 2: That's the p That is the one that just stands out,
that's the pizza. It makes absolutely no culinary sense. It
makes no conversational sense.
Speaker 1: It only makes sense if pizza is a code word
for something.
Speaker 2: And if it is a code what does it stand for.
The source material notes that while the specific piece of
gate theory might be debunked by these files, the use
of coded language for illicit activities is very real. It
fuels the speculation that pizza was a placeholder for something
or someone they couldn't name openly.
Speaker 1: It's the language of a secret society, low carb, gluten, pizza, civilian.
They built a whole lexicon to hide their crimes in
plain sight.
Speaker 2: And that brings us right back to where we started,
the map of influence.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's try to synthesize this horror show. After going
through all of this, what have we actually learned today?
Speaker 2: I think we've learned that the conspiracy theories weren't entirely wrong.
They were just sometimes looking in the wrong direction. The
reality is often more banal and at the same time
more terrifying than the fection.
Speaker 1: It's a world war where billionaires, royalty and scientists. You know,
people were supposed to look up to treated human beings
as commodities, as honey traps, as low carb entertainment.
Speaker 2: And it absolutely validates the Polish Prime Minister's fear if
this was an intelligence operation, where are the rest of
the tapes?
Speaker 1: That's the thought that's going to keep me up tonight.
Epstein is gone, Maxwell is in prison. But the leverage,
the digital files, the videos.
Speaker 2: They exist somewhere, and whoever holds them holds an incredible
amount of power over the people who run our world.
Speaker 1: We scrutinize the names in the files today Etia, Tish, Gates, Musk, Trump,
Prince Andrew. But here is my provocative closing thought for you,
the listener. What is it we know who is named,
but who wasn't named that should have been? Who scrubbed
their tracks better than the rest? And if Jeffrey Epstein
was ready to cooperate on July twenty ninth, who had
the most to lose on August tenth, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: That is the question that defines this entire saga.
Speaker 1: I really want to hear from you. Do you believe
the spy theory. Was Epstein a Russian intelligence asset or
was he just a wealthy predator protected by his powerful friends,
or could it somehow be both.
Speaker 2: It's a complex puzzle and we've only just found the
corner pieces.
Speaker 1: Leave a comment let us know your stance on this.
Speaker 2: We read them all and keep questioning the official narrative.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on this thrilling thread. Stay curious,
stay skeptical, and we'll catch you the next one.