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Rochester, New York is known for many things, 36 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:54.799 great food, relax, innovative supermarkets, minor league baseball, and unfortunately, climb. 37 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.879 This heavily illustrated book covers some of the most spectacular 38 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:02.280 crimes in the Rochester their area's history. Written by true 39 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.040 crime master Michael Benson, who grew up in the town 40 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:09.840 of Chilai. Read about serial killers Arthur Shawcross and Robert 41 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:14.159 Bruce Bahalski, the savage murders of Kathy Bernhardt and George 42 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.599 Anne Formacola, the All in the Family murders of Tabitha 43 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:22.400 Tabitha Bryant and Jim Tann, The hunt for Bucky Phillips, 44 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:27.240 the disappearance of Flossy Wilbur, plus much more, and many 45 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.039 shocking photos. The book they we're featuring this evening is 46 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:34.080 Rochester's Most Startling Crimes with my special guest, journalist and 47 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.199 author Michael Benson. Welcome back to the program. Thank you 48 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.960 once again, Michael Benson. 49 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:42.319 Thanks Dan for having me. 50 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.319 Thank you once again. You've done it again with Rochester's 51 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.879 Most Startling Crimes. Incredible jam packed with nothing but incredible, 52 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.719 almost unbelievable murder cases and stories. Congratulations, Well, thank you 53 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.280 very much. Let's start. 54 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:05.000 There's a pipe of the laugh of my pandemic books. 55 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:07.879 That area host pandemic books. 56 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:13.120 Now, wow, incredible, incredible efforts you did during that pandemic. 57 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:17.080 You how many books did you have published? 58 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:22.840 Four or five? There's a couple in the can that 59 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:28.240 won't come out until next year from Kensington Press. But yeah, incredible. 60 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:29.759 Can you just stick me in a house with a 61 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:31.319 typewriter I will write. 62 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:37.719 Let's talk about this Rochester's Most Starling Crimes. Obviously they're 63 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:42.159 centered around Rochester and your experiences and growing up in 64 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.919 the area and writing about this area. Now for quite 65 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:49.240 a while, let's talk about the contents of this book here, 66 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.039 Rochester's Most Starling Crimes. 67 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:59.560 Well, we start off with the the murder of Charlie Kann, 68 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.120 I think you. Two stories in the book feature murder 69 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.199 victims who, for the life of me, I could not 70 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:10.240 find anyone to say anything nice about them, at least 71 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.879 popular people around. Charlie Tann was one FOSSi open with 72 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.079 the other. But Charlie Tann was apparently a new man 73 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.560 who ran his own company, had a lot of money, 74 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.120 and tried to run his home in the same way 75 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:30.079 and was abusive to his wife and children until on 76 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:35.560 January twenty eighth, twenty fifteen, his fifty two year old wife, Jean, 77 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:39.120 called nine to one one and complained that her husband 78 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.199 had choked her and was trying to kill her. The 79 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.000 woman had just managed to say her address, which was 80 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:49.720 in a really upscale street in Rochester suburb of Pittsford, 81 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.000 when the dispatcher heard a shuffling noise and then a 82 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.040 male voice came on the phone and said, you'll have 83 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.439 to excuse my wife. She's very childish. There is no 84 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.800 emergency here. The first time he's encountered a man who 85 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.439 used the word childish to describe his wife because she 86 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.759 was calling nine one one on him. Now, dispatcher didn't 87 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:11.759 like it at all and sent a sheriff's deputy anyway, 88 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.839 and when the deputy got there, Gene Tan declined to 89 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.759 have her husband arrested, which is what usually happens, and 90 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.160 the ancident could hardly be regarded as a one off 91 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:25.079 because it was the seventeenth time the Sheriff's office had 92 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.279 been called to the tannhouse, dating back to two thousand 93 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:33.639 and three. Now a week later, Jeane and Jim's nineteen 94 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.800 year old son, Charles Tan, begins behaving unusually. This is 95 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:43.240 February fifth, twenty fifteenth, and the same day his friend 96 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:48.079 Whitney Nickerbarker purchased a shotgun and child has a series 97 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.199 of meetings and meals with old friends, and he's exuding 98 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:55.199 an uncomfortable feeling that he's saying goodbye, and this troubles 99 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.240 his friends. At eight forty on February fifteenth, Jim Tann, 100 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.160 that's the dad, send his final email to an employee 101 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.360 at Dynamax, his company, and that was the last anyone 102 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.079 heard from him. An hour and twenty minutes after the 103 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.519 email was sent, Charlie, his son, meets up with a friend, 104 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:17.560 Jacob Grossman. Seems very anxious and says to Jacob that 105 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.040 he's going to have to be leaving the country well. 106 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:23.439 Charld's behavior was so abnormal that Grossman took it upon 107 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:26.160 himself to call nine to one and suggested that the 108 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.079 Sheriff's deep heeds go over to the tent house make 109 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.839 sure everything's okay, and when Deputy William Connell gets to 110 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.000 the house, they speak to Charlie, who has calmed down 111 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:40.040 and says his dad's not home, at which point Charlie 112 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.560 Canada and stays for a couple of days, but by 113 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.439 February nine he's back in Pittsford with his mom, and 114 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.600 around dinner time, an email is sent to his fraternity 115 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:53.160 brothers saying he's going to be having some trouble in 116 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:56.240 the near future. He's waiting a visit from the authorities, 117 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:00.319 and minutes later, Charles' mom picks up the phone and 118 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:02.720 makes the eighteenth and final nine one one call from 119 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.720 the can home. She says, my son, my husband, he 120 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.600 was trying to protect me. My husband was trying to 121 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:14.839 torture me. Deputy Christopher Cooper is the first responder gets 122 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.439 over to the house, which is very impressive two thousand 123 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:24.680 seven hud square foot colonial. Charlie is outside waiting he's 124 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:28.399 ordered to the ground, handcuffed, tells the police that the 125 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.480 body's upstairs in his dad's office and the gun is 126 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.800 in the garage. Now, sure enough, Jim Tann's dead from 127 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.600 multiple shotgun blasts. I've been shot in the chest, arm, neck, 128 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.639 and face. He's a pile of clothes and coagulated gore, basically, 129 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:50.800 but there's a surprise. There are indications of decomposition. The 130 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.839 deputy expected a corpse, but a fresh one, and Jim 131 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.879 Cann has been dead for some time. So in the 132 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:03.360 case becomes truly exceptional. Charlie Tan appears in court and 133 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:08.160 it becomes apparent he has a sizeable fan club. His 134 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.360 supporters call out to him, they pledge their love and 135 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:15.240 allegiance with his cause, and it comes clear to prosecutors 136 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:19.279 that any attempt to prosecute Charlie Tan is gonna have 137 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.160 to deal with his supporters. And there are many. And 138 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:25.839 someone said, well, it's just like Charlie Manson with his 139 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:29.120 Manson family, But it wasn't, because the Manson family was 140 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.600 on drugs and they were weird. Of Charlie Kan's fans 141 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:36.200 were like the best and the brightest kids in Monroe County, 142 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.600 as was Charlie Tan. You know, everybody you talked to 143 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:41.679 him said, hey, Charlie Kan's not a good kid, He's 144 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:47.240 a great kid. So District Attorney's office knew that sooner 145 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:49.120 or later they're gonna have to deal with the sentiment. 146 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:52.679 And it was pervasive that Charlie Tan killed his father 147 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:57.679 because his father needed killing. And then there was aspect 148 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.919 of the time, the way. Now it wasn't just that 149 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.840 it was a gruesome killing or why it was done, 150 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.960 the odipule nature of it. But Charlie shot his dad 151 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:10.960 long before his mother called nine to one one. Their 152 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:15.360 mom was living with the body. So in the past, 153 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:18.240 warriors had successfully defended women who had been accused of 154 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.759 killing their husbands, saying that their clients suffered from battered 155 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:26.840 spouse syndrome. But did that syndrome transfer to the woman's child? 156 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:29.519 That was the question the jury in this case was 157 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:32.759 going to have to answer. You know, psychologists waded in. 158 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.480 They likened the Charlie's experiences to a veteran who spends 159 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.559 too long in a war zone. It might have been 160 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.519 post traumatic stress that caused him to kill his dad, ah, 161 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:50.240 but wouldn't prolong trauma also negatively influence a person's behavior. Well, 162 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:53.559 in Charlie's case, maybe not so much, because he was 163 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.480 a popular person and an excellent student, and to disassociate 164 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:00.679 himself with the hell that his home life was, he 165 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:06.279 overachieved and this fairly common compensation for a troubled home life. 166 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.759 Now at the trial, now the prosecution is introduced into 167 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:17.399 evidence a list taken from Jeanne's purse listing several criminal 168 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:23.000 defense attorneys. So she was thinking about defense even before 169 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:27.799 she called the police. And during the defense's final argument 170 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.360 to the jury, they brought up for the first time 171 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.600 the possibility that Charlie's mother, jean had fired the fatal shot. 172 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:38.440 She had the same mode of an opportunity as he saw. 173 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:42.240 And then the lawyer pauses, says, no, she had more 174 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:45.039 of a motive and more of an opportunity to pull 175 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:49.200 the trigger. Well that the trial ends up in a mistrial. 176 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.120 The deliberation by the jury is called short by Judge 177 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:01.000 pan Piano in an unusual way that the Jersey are saying, no, 178 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.759 we're making progress, now, we'll get this done. And yet 179 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.559 he calls a mistrial and orders the trial reheld. Afterwards, 180 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:15.039 the jury said that we were leaning to acquit, So 181 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.519 it means that the judge probably pulled the plug for 182 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:21.399 fear that there was going to be an acquittal and 183 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:26.879 Charlie was going to walk free. Now what happened after 184 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:32.200 that even more bizarre. Charlie goes back to Canada and 185 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.440 when he comes back into the country for a special event, 186 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:41.399 he's arrested by the federal government and for gun charges, 187 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:46.399 and he's convicted of that trial and sentenced to twenty 188 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:53.399 years in federal penitentiary for the shotgun. It's a large, 189 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:59.120 large sentence for a gun charge. It's more like they 190 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.799 were trying to get back at him for getting away 191 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.960 with murder, which is how I since they felt about it, 192 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:12.000 and the appeals were just beginning and the pandemic began, 193 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.399 and presumably there will be Charlie Tann court appearances in 194 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.080 the future as the trier, perhaps less in the federal charges, 195 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:26.120 if not getting him off entirely. That was the first story. 196 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.080 That's that's exciting enough that there's what's sixth sevenister in 197 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:30.759 the book. 198 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.919 You talk about the next chapter. It's called Arty, and 199 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:39.200 you tell you're referring to Arthur Shawcross and we've spoken 200 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.879 about him and his crimes before. We can't go through 201 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.960 that entire story, but just give us a brief synopsis 202 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:53.399 of the chapter that is already itself to some of 203 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.200 the features of this extraordinary criminal. 204 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.919 Well, we have spoken about Arthur Show across the past 205 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.759 because he is a suspect in the nineteen sixty six 206 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:10.720 murders of George and Formacola and Kathy Bernhard. And one 207 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.000 of the reasons he's such a good suspect for those 208 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.840 crimes is that he came to Rochester in the early seventies. 209 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:21.240 He had been arrested in Watertown, New York, where he 210 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:26.399 grew up, and he murdered two children, a little boy 211 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:32.759 and a little girl. And because of courtroom vagaries and 212 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:38.039 weirdnesses and deals and this, and that he was charged 213 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.039 with only one of the murders, killed two kids, was 214 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:45.279 only charged with one of them and ended up being 215 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.600 sentenced only ten years and was never tried for the 216 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.559 other crime. So here is he's done ten years. He's 217 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.080 a child killer, and they want to release him back 218 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.960 into the world. New York State Department of Corrections had 219 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:03.639 a problem. They kept putting him in little towns. They 220 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:05.600 were similar to the towns he grew up in. Where 221 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.639 they thought he'd thrived. But the instant somebody found out 222 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:14.240 who he was, there would be you know, near riots. 223 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.559 He was chased out of town three or four times, 224 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.919 at least once by a potential lynch mob. 225 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:21.279 Yeah. 226 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.600 So the Department of Correction had something with this guy, 227 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:31.159 so they dropped him in downtown Rochester and didn't even 228 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.240 tell the Rochester police he was there. 229 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:34.279 Wow. 230 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.639 So what followed was so predictable and maybe even if 231 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.840 you've been nipped in the butt, if the authority said 232 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:47.159 spoken to one another instead of trying to just ditch 233 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.480 this guy because he's a problem in a place where 234 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.279 maybe nobody will ask any questions. So, yeah, the trouble 235 00:14:53.320 --> 00:15:03.679 started September eleventh, nineteen eighty eight. That's first murder. That's 236 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:06.799 Anna Marie Stephen or no, his first murder is Dorothy 237 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:10.080 Mrie Dotcy Blackburn, twenty seven years old, and most of 238 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:14.799 his victims from then on are there. There are sex workers, 239 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.159 street women, not exclusively. One of them was just mentally 240 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:23.480 disabled and a friend of his, but there were women 241 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.159 he could easily get into his car and then take 242 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:32.639 them someplace and kill them. He left the first few 243 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.120 bodies in near bodies of water. The first one was 244 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:40.039 near Salmon Creek in Northampton Park of the town of Sweden, 245 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:45.840 which is a suburb of Rochester. Second one was along 246 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.639 the banks of the river the Genesee River Gorge, as 247 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.279 was the third. There were from then on a few 248 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.159 murdst near the river, not necessarily down in the embankments 249 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.679 to the gorge, but near the at the top of 250 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:08.399 the gorge. He killed Patty Eyes, killed June Stotts. 251 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:11.159 You know. 252 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.679 Scott's was the one who was neither a street walker 253 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.960 nor a drug addict, but she was a slow and 254 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.879 perhaps slightly schizophrenic woman who ended up going down to 255 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:30.039 the river's bank with Artie and ended up dead. Weirdness. 256 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.639 He removed her vagina and claimed to have later eaten it, 257 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.519 which again tied in with nineteen sixty six because of 258 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:44.960 the sexual mutilation of those bodies. Maria Welch twenty two 259 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.320 was next November nineteen eighty nine. You know, she had 260 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.480 the letters l O VEE and the knuckles of her 261 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:56.039 left hand. Franny Brown of Otis Street in Rochester, she's next. 262 00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.879 The person who founder was praying that it was all 263 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.519 new a mannequin, but he knew it wasn't a twenty 264 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.839 nine year old Elizabeth Liz Gibson No. Twenty fifth, nineteen 265 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:10.119 eighty nine. They're coming along much quicker now. He found 266 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:11.920 what he likes to do, and he's doing it regularly, 267 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.880 and we get to Darling, Trippy, June Cicero, Felicia Stevens, 268 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:25.559 and then a jogger finds the final victims' boots in 269 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.319 a park and by this time the police know they 270 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.480 have a serial killer who's killing sex workers for the 271 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.799 most part, and he is revisiting their bodies, he's having 272 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.960 sex with bodies, he's cutting them up, So they don't 273 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.920 release the news that the boots have been found, and 274 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:47.400 instead they keep a constant surveillance on the area and 275 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.000 sure enough, already comes out to play and he's spotted 276 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.720 by a helicopter standing over the body with his penis 277 00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:00.599 in his hand, and that's it. He's done. Incredible that yeah, Yeah, 278 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:07.400 that's Arthur Shawcross and he is Yeah, he's Rochester's number 279 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.359 one villain. So note book about Rochester's most startling crimes 280 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.000 would be complete without him, even though I dealt with 281 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.039 other aspects of his criminal career, possible other aspects, and 282 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.279 I thought that giving the the main reason why he 283 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.039 is famous in Rochester was important to put in this book, 284 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.519 and that was the eleven murders of nineteen eighty nine. 285 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.920 Yeah, that's used as opportunity to stop for a second 286 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:36.359 for these messages. 287 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.440 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 288 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.160 gotten lucky? 289 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:41.839 Lucky? 290 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.400 In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my 291 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.319 dentist's office more than once. 292 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:47.960 Actually do I have to say? 293 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:48.599 Yes? You do? 294 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.359 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 295 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:51.880 Really? 296 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.960 Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 297 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.640 I never win in tell? 298 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.920 Well, there you have it. You could get lucky anywhere 299 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.640 playing at lucky land slots dot com play for free 300 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:03.599 right now? Are you feeling lucky. 301 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.559 Now? You talked about not having any book about Rochester murders, 302 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:18.240 in fact the true crime legend Arthur Shawcross. But you 303 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.599 also have a couple guys that you cover in your 304 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.960 book Killer Twins, Robert Bruce Bihalski and his brother Steven, 305 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:30.519 And this is another must have inclusive about Rochester. But 306 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.079 also again again a couple maybe not as well known, 307 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.240 but certainly has all the ingredients of a true crime 308 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:43.640 legendary stories, especially these guys being identical twins and killer 309 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.519 twins as well. So you do cover Robert Bruce Boholski 310 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:50.920 very incredible story in this book. 311 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:58.000 Yeah, Well, what happens is that I'm still visiting Rochester's 312 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:02.759 fairly steadily. This time. My kids are little, my parents 313 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.079 are still alive. We'll grow up there to visit Grayman 314 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:08.519 and Grandpa. And I was around when Stalls he was arrested, 315 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.039 and I was around several months later and reading in 316 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:18.119 the newspaper that the killings hadn't stopped. So you know, 317 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.920 either somebody was taking Shawcross's place, or there was more 318 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.599 than one person killing women to begin with. But the 319 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.119 senseless murders of women in Rochesters did not stop when 320 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:31.799 Shawcross was arrested, and Robert Bruce Bahalski was one of 321 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.880 the reasons why he'd grown up in their duell in Elmira, 322 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.599 New York. He did time for stealing stuff, and just 323 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:43.759 like Shawcross, once he'd finished a long stint, they placed 324 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.839 him in Rochester, where they thought he might be able 325 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.839 to assimilate into society and straighten his act. It didn't 326 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:57.200 work out that way. On December thirty first, nineteen ninety 327 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:02.519 a Sunday. This is the twenty four hours before New 328 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:07.440 Year's not sex work of Moraine Armstrong's turning a trick 329 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.240 in ear Lake Avenue apartment and she was heard to scream. 330 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.599 About twelve hours later, Rochester police are called in. Moraine's 331 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:19.240 friend who'd found the body called and said said she 332 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:21.880 was hanging. When I got there, she wasn't hanging. She 333 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.240 was on the bed with electric appliance cords tied tightly 334 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.079 around her neck. Now, I spoke to Detective Frank Campione. 335 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.720 He and I went to the same school for a year, 336 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.599 and he knew that at a crime scene like this, 337 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.039 he was there, you had to keep your eyes and 338 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.920 ears open for that guy who's just a little bit 339 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.440 too interested in what's going on, a little too curious, 340 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.400 curious in a Nancy way. Police called it the witness 341 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.839 who had his belly button against the police tape. So 342 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.200 on January first, he's working in the Lake Avenue crime scene. 343 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:59.000 Suing up. There's a guy who was fascinated by what's 344 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.599 going on. Kenny Nancy, He's a nervous guy, says. His 345 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.119 name is Robert S. Paholski's thirty six years old and 346 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.200 says that he didn't really know Moraine, but he'd seen 347 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.000 her around, but he sure was interested in what happened 348 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:19.240 to her. So it's that case came and went became 349 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:24.279 cold right away. All of the witnesses were on drugs 350 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.599 and in different states of being brain addled, and Leeds 351 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:34.559 ended up evaporating and came to be almost seven months later. 352 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:39.720 July twenty first, nineteen ninety one, and it's one of 353 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.799 the hottest days of the year and Officer Gerald Smith 354 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:47.000 is on Emerson Street in the city of Rochester to 355 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.000 do a wellness check and she's just he's just a 356 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:58.519 block away from where Maureen Armstrong was killed. So he's 357 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.559 parks his car and looks out and he sees this 358 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:06.240 little ento eyes of neighbors coming towards his car with 359 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.440 grim expressions on their faces, and it's just, what's the matter, 360 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.880 and they are foullooader. There's a fouloader coming from that 361 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:19.079 house from the front apartment. So he crosses the street 362 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.519 and he sees something that's so grittily that, you know, 363 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.000 it gives him the willies to think about it for 364 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.480 the rest of his life. The side window to the 365 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:33.920 front apartment is covered on the outside with a black 366 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:41.680 blanket of flies. Yeah right, flies They want in and yike, 367 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.640 you know there's nothing good in there. They open They 368 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:48.200 finally open up the house and just unbelievable odor and 369 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.640 the body of Adrian Berger is on the floor there 370 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.200 so decomposed they would never be able to determine how 371 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.440 she died. I interesting thing about there was that her 372 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.880 boyfriend was a kind of a dirt bad type named 373 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:12.319 Robert Bruce Spohoansky. Yeah so uh. Spohosky makes money for 374 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.920 a while turning all mail tricks, and among his pickups 375 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.279 was an otherwise respectable Rochesterian named Charles Grande, who had 376 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.279 the misfortune of inviting Spohalsky into his home on Tuesday, 377 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.039 October first, nineteen ninety one. So this is a couple 378 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:34.279 of months after Adrian Berger. ECU think and Spihoski thought 379 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.000 that Grande was rich because he was a landscaper from Grant. 380 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:43.960 Grande wasn't, but Spohalski had a very limited perception of 381 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.599 what true affluence was, so he takes takes Spohalsky home 382 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.680 with him. Spahski tries to rob him, ends up hitting 383 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.319 him over the head with a hammer and caving his 384 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.720 head in. He steals Grandee's car, he picks up a woman, 385 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:04.039 and he's stopped by a police officer in Grandy's car 386 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:06.319 with a sex worker in the front seat with him, 387 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.759 and he shows Grande's license to the policeman. Yeah, the 388 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.160 policeman hands the hands of it back and doesn't sense 389 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:20.480 it anything's wrong. Grandy's guy's five eight and Spallsky is 390 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:26.960 a huge He's six y three, completely muscular. If he 391 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:29.839 and his twin had stuck with it and hadn't gone bad, 392 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.400 they might have been Olympic gymnasts. They have, and they 393 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.119 were really good shape. Spalsky once broke a pair of handcuffs, though, 394 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.079 right off his wrist, by snapping them with his strength. 395 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.279 So anyway, the cop doesn't notice that this guy's twice 396 00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:47.440 the size of the person on the driver's license. And 397 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:51.640 when police finally tracked down Spohansky, they can't arrest him 398 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.319 for the murder of Grande or they don't have enough evidence, 399 00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:00.319 but they arrest him instead of criminal impersonation, and he 400 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.960 gets off because the jury refuses to believe that a 401 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.279