1 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,759 Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Itchy and Bitchy Podcast because being 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,519 itchy is bitchy and our medical system sucks. I'm doctor 3 00:00:19,559 --> 00:00:22,559 Keith Nolica, a vetnary, allergist and dermatologist, and. 4 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:25,359 Speaker 2: I'm Stephen Miller, a doctor of nursing practice and a 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,920 que care nurse practitioner. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,359 Speaker 1: Send us your questions at ask at itch not dot com. 7 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:34,479 We love you, but we're not your doctors. The information 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,359 we discuss is not direct medical advice. Please talk to 9 00:00:38,399 --> 00:00:42,399 your provider who is the expert on your care. The 10 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:46,119 Itchy and BITCHI Podcast is sponsored by doc Itchy Medical 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,640 Pets supplements designed to optimize your pet's health with the 12 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:54,759 latest veterinary medical research. Visit docchi dot com or find 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,840 us on Amazon. Don't forget to send us your questions 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:07,319 to ask at dot com. Welcome back. As always, we 15 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:10,599 hope you're well and safe. Are you well in safe talk? 16 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: Everything's good? 17 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:16,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent? Okay. This episode is actually a rebuttal for 18 00:01:17,239 --> 00:01:20,439 one of our legit or bullshit segments that we did 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,519 that was based on cortisol face. And this was a 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,040 TikTok trend in some other social medias where young adults 21 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,879 post bubest and think that they're getting around her face 22 00:01:31,879 --> 00:01:34,799 because they have abnormal cortisol levels, and they call it 23 00:01:34,879 --> 00:01:36,959 cortisol face. And then there are all sorts of things 24 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,239 you can do for the cortisol face, and I especially 25 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,799 was probably overly negative about it, which I maybe tend 26 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,599 to do, but I'm not normally a big fan of 27 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,799 doctor TikTok, which is why I was negative, and really 28 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:56,840 post pubescent changes in men and women have pretty significant 29 00:01:56,879 --> 00:02:02,400 body confirmation changes, and change in facial structure is pretty normal. 30 00:02:02,439 --> 00:02:05,519 So going from a child face to an adult face, 31 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:08,919 some faces get skinnier, but some faces get rounder. So 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,280 I kind of poo pooed the whole idea unless you're 33 00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:14,719 a sixty year old person with Cushing's disease. But then 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,960 one of the reasons we want to do this podcast 35 00:02:18,039 --> 00:02:20,080 is that we're both very curious and we're a little 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,439 ocd and both of us have a little bit of insomnia. 37 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,199 So after that episode, I, at three o'clock in the morning, 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,280 was feeling a little bit guilty about poopooing these young 39 00:02:29,319 --> 00:02:33,080 adults with cortisol face and actually thought about what I 40 00:02:33,199 --> 00:02:36,319 was doing in my own clinic. And so this is 41 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,800 a rebuttal to that that actually, depending on what therapies 42 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,240 you might think about using, there could be some benefits 43 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,439 specifically for melatonin therapy, and so we're going to talk 44 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:50,960 about the benefits of melatonein therapy in both animals and 45 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:54,240 humans as well as focused on young adults. 46 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: What do you think, Yeah, that sounds good. 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think I was over the top last time? 48 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,319 Was I too harsh? 49 00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: No? 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: I think well, I blame the Dorito's and the tequila. 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: I think trying to straighten out misinterpretations of information is 52 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:16,360 what we're trying to do, and I think education is 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:16,840 part of that. 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So that's so we're good. Okay. So the gist 55 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,400 of it is that I was saying that it's more 56 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,439 likely the night before and having tequila Dorito's are some 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,719 high salt content that was causing the problem, and that 58 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:34,800 the Court is all issue was not the issue. But 59 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,960 it turns out that depending on what you do specifically melatonin, 60 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,039 you can have a lot of benefits in young adults 61 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,960 and adolescents. And we actually have a similar hormone imbalanced 62 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:51,360 condition and dogs that may be related to sort of 63 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,439 the response that we see in humans with melatonin. So 64 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,759 do you use melatonin in your your practice? 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,919 Speaker 2: Yes, I do, And. 66 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,599 Speaker 1: So your tipicly seen older adults, and so those would 67 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:09,840 be adults with like some dementia, sundowner syndrome, some cognitive disculity, anybody. 68 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,319 So who would you prescribe melatonin for as an actual 69 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:17,000 medical human provider? And then I'll tell you the animal side. 70 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: Anyone having difficulty maintaining and getting sleep at night? 71 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: And why is sleep important? We like sleep, but what's 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:26,360 the issue with sleep? 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: Well, I mean sleep deprivation can lead to all kinds 74 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:34,480 of cardiovascular issues. It can lead to increases in cortisol level. 75 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,759 I don't know if the viewers are aware, but our 76 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:46,399 brains have a basically a master circadian pacemaker called the 77 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,720 suprachiasmotic nucleus, And so much like our heart has pacemaker 78 00:04:52,879 --> 00:04:58,639 for pacing beats, our brain has pacemaker for sleep. And 79 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,319 so that leads to initiation of our autonomic nervous system 80 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:10,920 and ultimately the pineal gland, which is where melatonin's metabolized 81 00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:12,800 and either released or suppressed. 82 00:05:13,399 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: And so that area, the pineal gland, is interesting because 83 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,959 a lot of reptilian creatures we think of pineal gland. 84 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,920 You know, color changes based on season, based on temperature, 85 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,680 the Arctic fox that turns brown during the summertime and 86 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,639 white in the wintertime, and a lot of these are 87 00:05:34,759 --> 00:05:38,519 very very complex, and we don't completely understand exactly all 88 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,720 of the interactions and the micro interactions that are occurring. 89 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,160 We do think that prolactin is important in part of it, 90 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:48,079 and prolactin is one of the hormones that regulates the 91 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,800 seasonal effects of animals, specifically, so dogs that will go 92 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,399 through a heat cycle twice a year or have dramatic sheds, 93 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,040 or again, the arctic fox that changes color in the 94 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,839 summertime versus the wintertime is regulated through prolactin, which then 95 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:10,839 regulates a whole bunch of other hormones, sex hormones, estrogens, progestins, testosterone, 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,759 all of those things as well, And so it's a 97 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:15,839 very very complex system, and. 98 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,639 Speaker 2: There are complexities that lead to disruption in our sleep cycles. 99 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,519 And so our brain, specifically through our eyes respond to 100 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:33,360 sunlighter darkness, and then those the retina then responds with 101 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,480 either initiation of the brain spacemaker or not. And so 102 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:45,000 some things that can really inhibit or interfere with those 103 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,560 mechanisms would be things like alcohol intake or medications or 104 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,720 disturbances in sleep wake cycles as we get older, and 105 00:06:56,319 --> 00:07:01,480 certainly among people with that are elderly, they can frequently 106 00:07:01,519 --> 00:07:04,879 get their days and nights mixed up, and then the 107 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,759 wrap at night. They're sleeping during the day on and off. 108 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:13,480 And so sleepwake cycles really are important to this whole concept. 109 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:16,519 Speaker 1: And so wrapping this back around to where it comes 110 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,639 back to young adults and adolescents with cortisol face, which 111 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,759 I was overly harsh on, is that if you're having 112 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,000 a disruptive sleep cycle as an elderly person, we recognize 113 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,240 that and there are a lot of proactive measures providers 114 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:36,600 will take. But teenagers and adolescents young adults are kind 115 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,279 of transitioning from an almost nocturnal set up in their 116 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:47,000 circadian rhythm to a more adult daytime awake in period. 117 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:51,720 And then you add into the modern trends with gaming 118 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,480 at night and maybe going out and having some tequila 119 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:00,639 and partying with your friends in college, or other chemicals, chemicals, 120 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:03,399 they're being on TikTok too long at nighttime, social media, 121 00:08:03,839 --> 00:08:06,560 lack of sleep, and so it turns out that in 122 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:10,079 young adults, sleep is very very important, and there's really 123 00:08:10,079 --> 00:08:13,680 no other generation other than our current gen zs, so 124 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,040 this would be high schoolers and college students right now, 125 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:23,639 so like twenty year olds that are really affecting their 126 00:08:23,759 --> 00:08:27,240 nighttime sleep behaviors. And it turns out that one of 127 00:08:27,279 --> 00:08:30,720 the cute little biological tricks of this whole system is 128 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,360 that a huge percentage of the hormonal spikes and fluctuations 129 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:41,360 with sex hormones, bone growth, neurologic development, brain development happen 130 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,679 at nighttime. So sleeping for adolescents going through puberty and 131 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,919 young adults is incredibly important for the normal development of 132 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,759 their bodies and their brains and their hormones. And so 133 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,799 we have also an epidemic level of anxiety and depression 134 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,720 and all of these other sort of neurodivergent behaviors. And 135 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,360 one of the reasons I thought we should talk about 136 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:12,039 this is that in dogs we're recognizing this hormone imbalance. 137 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,759 It's sort of a premature geriatric hormone imbalance that is 138 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:20,960 melotone in sensitive. So I'm starting to call this geriatric hymns, 139 00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:25,639 So that would be geriatric hormone imbalance with melotone and sensitivity, 140 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,720 and these are interestingly dogs that come in and they 141 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,879 may be like six years old or eight years old, 142 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,600 usually small predogs under thirty pounds, and they basically are 143 00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:39,720 prematurely old looking. They just have thin skin, pot bellies, 144 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,759 muscle breakdown. They look older than what they really should be. 145 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,759 And normally we would worry about cushions disease in these dogs. 146 00:09:47,879 --> 00:09:51,080 We may test them for cushions disease with an ACTH 147 00:09:51,159 --> 00:09:54,080 stimulation test or a low dose TEX test or ultrasounding 148 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,720 the adrenal glands. How do you diagnose cushions in humans? 149 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:02,399 You do MRI of the pituitary or same hormone testing. 150 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the hormone testing is what we do. 151 00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so and these dogs may be completely normal. And 152 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,919 then the cheat that we've been doing in ventnory medicine 153 00:10:12,039 --> 00:10:15,720 calling these atypical cushions, So they really don't have cushions, 154 00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:18,080 but we kind of call them that anyway, and that's inaccurate. 155 00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:20,279 So I think we need to recognize that we don't 156 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:23,240 really understand what's happening to them. But when we give 157 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,320 these geriatric HYMNS dog patients melatonin, about eighty percent of 158 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,519 them have an amazing rebound where they feel two or 159 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,559 three years younger. There are immune systems that were really 160 00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:37,039 kind of wimping out, and they were getting UTIs and 161 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,200 skin infections. Your infections suddenly gets boosted. And so eighty 162 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,879 percent of these dogs with melatonin therapy at night just 163 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:49,600 have a miraculous rebounds in their hormone balance. And we 164 00:10:49,639 --> 00:10:52,000 don't know why, but we think that we're probably regulating 165 00:10:52,039 --> 00:10:57,159 prolactin and then optimizing sleep sleep cycles, which comes back 166 00:10:57,159 --> 00:10:59,679 to your circadian rhythm in the brain. 167 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's kind of like when you go on 168 00:11:02,399 --> 00:11:05,279 a vacation for a week and you get really good 169 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,320 sleep for a week and you feel like a new human, 170 00:11:08,919 --> 00:11:11,480 and then suddenly you get back to your routine and 171 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:15,000 you're doing all kinds of craziness at night, like sitting 172 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,840 up until midnight, you know, on your phone, or having 173 00:11:19,919 --> 00:11:23,080 too much wine in the evening or whatever. And so 174 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,480 I think that sleep hygiene is something that we're not 175 00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:32,320 good at teaching our children about or learning about. Sleep 176 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:39,840 hygiene becomes really relevant to this whole concept of trying 177 00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:45,679 to heal the mind and body. Decreased cortisol levels allow 178 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:50,440 the bodies inherent melatonin levels to kick in, and so 179 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,440 I think sleep hygiene really is important, and what that 180 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,120 means is essentially, you know, heading to bed an hour ahead, 181 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,320 turning off all stimulation, sitting down in the quiet and 182 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,360 either meditating or reading a book or whatever, and so 183 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:14,039 sort of allowing your body to turn down in the 184 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,960 evening hours rather than ramping up and getting jacked up 185 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,600 on alcohol our you know, cell phone stimulation. 186 00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, cell phones are a big problem. There are a 187 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,919 lot of sort of self help videos and references now 188 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,240 that if you just remove the cell phone from the bedroom, 189 00:12:32,279 --> 00:12:33,799 that way you won't wake up in the middle of 190 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:37,600 the night and feel that dopamine urge to doom scroll 191 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:41,639 for an hour, which resets your panic state in your 192 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:45,159 brain and messes up all of the hormone fluctuations. We're 193 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:46,679 going to take a brief break and then we'll be 194 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:48,679 right back and we'll talk about all of the interesting 195 00:12:48,799 --> 00:13:03,480 hormones that change while we're sleeping. We're back and we 196 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,720 were going to talk about the various things that happen 197 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:09,159 while we sleep. So we all enjoy sleep. Sleep is 198 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,279 very RESTful and we feel rejuvenated. But some of the 199 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,559 interesting things, especially in young adults, that happen and adolescence 200 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,320 is growth hormone spikes in our sleep, and so growth 201 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,639 hormon you can imagine, does exactly that. It helps us 202 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,240 grow with bone length and density and muscle healing, So 203 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:31,320 if you're an athlete, that's very important, but also skin 204 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,559 and glands and neurons, all sorts of regenerative things the 205 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,240 growth hormone helps stimulate. And you know, sort of they're 206 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:41,679 all sorts of jokes about teenagers growing in the middle 207 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,279 of the night and you know, they wake up and 208 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:45,360 they're three inches longer and they don't know where their 209 00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,159 feet are. But it actually is true that if your 210 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,639 sleep is disrupted, you have abnormal growth hormone spikes, and 211 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,879 that can lead to all sorts of problems. So good 212 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,559 night's sleep and healthy sleep habits that we were talking 213 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,360 about are very important. Growth hormone is one of the 214 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,559 things that is very important that happens in your sleep. 215 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,960 Do you have any comments about growth hormone. 216 00:14:06,799 --> 00:14:09,879 Speaker 2: No, No, I mean, I think I totally agree with 217 00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:10,639 Dell all of that. 218 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,799 Speaker 1: So one of the other things that's also very important 219 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,000 is sex hormones. So going through adolescents and developing normal 220 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,759 sexual characteristics for your gender at nighttime for both men 221 00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:27,320 and women, testosterone, estrogen, progestins. 222 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: So essentially you're speaking to gonadotropic releasing hormones. 223 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, including LH and FSH, which a lot of people 224 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,279 don't know about, but these are all the normal hormones 225 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,919 that help us develop from children, babies basically into sexually 226 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,519 active adults in a healthy manner, both with our physical 227 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:50,759 transformation but also our mental transformation and even gender identities. 228 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:54,480 So that's really important part of what happens in nighttime. 229 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,039 And again you can imagine that if you're disrupting your 230 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,120 sleep cycle, then that's going to be big problem. Melatonin 231 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:06,399 helps normalize the sleep cycle, so that would normalize your 232 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:14,200 growth hormone spike and your sex hormone gonatotropin fluctuations, so 233 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,720 you have a much more healthy transformation process. 234 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it definitely improves RAM regulation and sleep efficiency. 235 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,759 So that probably would be in the clinic setting the 236 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:33,759 number one reason for recommending someone to take. 237 00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:37,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so young adults. So I'm a venary allergist, 238 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,360 and so I pay attention to human allergy treatments. And 239 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:45,919 there's actually a study that shows that if you give 240 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,039 melatonin to teenager with teenagers with allergies, their allergies actually improve, 241 00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:54,360 which then because of the histamine release and all of 242 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:58,919 these chemicals associated with allergies flowing through their body, their 243 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,519 overall anxiety even ADHD can improve. So good night's sleep 244 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:08,080 and melotonin helping that can be really a good thing. 245 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,960 So I kind of started off poopooing the cortisol face, 246 00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:14,759 but young adults taking melatonin really can be a good 247 00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:17,519 thing if it helps them regulate their sleep cycle, and 248 00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,720 then they get the normal hormone spikes with the growth hormone, 249 00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:24,559 the sex hormones, LHFSAH, all of those kinds of things. 250 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:30,039 Speaker 2: Well, I also think it's important not to under estimate 251 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:34,840 the value of sleep hygiene in younger years. I think 252 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,399 sometimes when we're in college and we're staying up late 253 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:41,480 at night studying, or we're quote cramming for an exam 254 00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:49,240 and quote sometimes we get our intrinsic melatonin levels off, 255 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:52,080 and then the downstream effects of all of that is 256 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:56,320 detrimental on the back end. And so I think again 257 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:03,559 getting back to properly weighing in on sleep hygiene, and 258 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,799 it may be that if you have proper sleep hygiene 259 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,920 and limit some chemical intake, then you may not even 260 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,200 need to take melatonin. 261 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, so eventually and you know, ideally we would be 262 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,480 wonderfully healthy and not need any kind of additives or 263 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,200 treatments or medications. But if again, if you're going to 264 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,599 treat your cortisol face, which I don't think is really 265 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:27,920 that big of a thing, but melatonin would be one 266 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,599 of the therapies that would probably have a lot of benefits, 267 00:17:31,519 --> 00:17:35,599 so even any age group. The other in researching this 268 00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:38,359 thing that I found out that I was interested in 269 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,279 is that while you sleep, your leptin and gleeland levels 270 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,119 also change, and those are two gastric hormones that affect 271 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,880 appetite and the feeling of fullness and kind of a 272 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,640 can lead to obesity if they're not maintained at a 273 00:17:55,759 --> 00:17:57,400 kind of sort of healthy ratio. 274 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: Specifically, I think that points to the development of metabolic syndrome, 275 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:10,559 which is, you know, sort of cholesterol, obesity, blood pressure, BMI, 276 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,279 glucose metabolism, all of those things are tied into sort 277 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:20,759 of metabolic syndrome and the impact of just low melatonin 278 00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,799 levels on that particular process, which could. 279 00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: Go back to my blaming the tequila and the doritos 280 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,920 for the cortisol face that if you're not getting enough sleep, 281 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,279 and then you have anxiety, and then your leptin and 282 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,680 gleland levels or abnormal, so you feel like you need 283 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,920 to eat more, and then you gain weight, and then 284 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,880 your face really does become moon shaped and rounder because 285 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,039 of all of these things that. 286 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: Are well, you've got the layering on the alcohol effect 287 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,279 of disrupting your sleep from the tequila, right, and then 288 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:55,440 you've got your putting a high, fatty, greasy dorito into 289 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,759 your gut, which then derives you know, all the churning 290 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,359 of the gut and the mechanisms and your bodies thinking 291 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:07,559 we're up and we're going, we're ready to party. And 292 00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:11,039 then you had some anxiety onto that the next day. Yeah, 293 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:16,559 and so then you're just really programming yourself for malfunction 294 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:17,279 on the back end. 295 00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to take another very quick break and 296 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,720 then we're going to come back and wrap this up 297 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:43,119 with a few thoughts. All right, we're back, and just 298 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,160 wrap this up very quickly. So some of the things 299 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,119 that actually could be beneficial for young adults taking melatonin 300 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,200 to regulate and get a healthy sleep cycle. And if 301 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,839 I had to choose my teenagers We actually have five 302 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,640 kids at thirty and younger. If I had to choose 303 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,440 them pu the cell phone away or taking melatonin, I'd 304 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,039 tell them to get rid of the cell phone. But 305 00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,160 doing both maybe beneficial. So if you think you have 306 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,880 cortisol face melatonin may not be a horrible idea, but 307 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,680 always check with your provider. We're not your doctor. We 308 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,480 may love you, but your doctor is the expert on you. 309 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,440 But some of the other things maybe actual metabolic syndrome, 310 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:27,160 appetite through the gastric hormones, normal bone density and growth hormones, 311 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:32,279 muscle repair if you're into athletics, even memory atension, cognitive 312 00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:36,440 functions may improve with stabilized sleep cycles that the melatonin 313 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,839 could help regulate. That could also help decrease possible anxiety depression. 314 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,319 Overall mood levels could improve. And then you know, like 315 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,160 I mentioned the allergic study and teenagers that the treating 316 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,200 the allergy and got better sleep actually helped some ADHD 317 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:56,720 symptoms and things like that. 318 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are also since I'm a cardiology person, 319 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:12,160 there are cardiovascular impacts from proper melatonin physiologic conversion, and 320 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,920 so that includes things like nocturnal blood pressure, circadian support, 321 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,799 and decreases in heart rates. So there's a couple of 322 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,519 things there that I think on the cardiovascular side that 323 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:24,680 definitely help as well. 324 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,319 Speaker 1: And I mean, you may not be ready for this, 325 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,839 but I actually have looked up the toxic dose of 326 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,960 melatonin in dogs, and there is no reported toxic dose 327 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,680 in dogs, and so it seems to have a ceiling 328 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240 effect and you could make them sick from just giving 329 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,559 them too much powder or pills and dogs again, I'm 330 00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:49,720 speaking dogs, But so for just a teenager to get melatonin, 331 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,279 you know, I think there could be worse things. What 332 00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:55,640 side effects in humans may be occurring with melatonin? Do 333 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,400 they have to be worried about toxicity? 334 00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:01,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there are super therapeutic doses that actually 335 00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:06,200 can cause sleep disturbance and cause disturbance in your body's 336 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,559 natural melatonin release. And so that's why it's important not 337 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,880 to keep uptight trading your dose without consultation with your provider, 338 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:21,599 because actually there is a whole theory on it's on 339 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,359 the fact that it's more effective if you take it 340 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:30,240 at lower doses and allow your body's intrinsic melatonin to 341 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,799 kick in from that low dose stimulation. So there are 342 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:36,400 all kinds of theories out there, but I think that 343 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,400 consultation with a sleep doctor who is an expert in 344 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,799 these sorts of things might be wise if you're having 345 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,599 severe sleep disturbance. 346 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: Very good, okay. As always, one of my big pet 347 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,279 peeves is doctor TikTok is not a thing, so always 348 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,680 check with your provider. They're the expert on you. Thanks 349 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,079 for listening, and as always, stay well, stay safe. We'll 350 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,359 see you guys next time. Don't forget to send us questions. 351 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,839 We really like your questions, and you can visit our 352 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,799 sponsors at docichi dot com. Any closing comments. 353 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: I would just say that I encourage people to go 354 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,519 to the American Academy of Sleep Physician's website and look 355 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,559 at some of the evidence there on sleep hygiene. 356 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: All right, everyone, stay well, stay safe. Thank you for 357 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,359 joining us. This is the Itchy and Itchy Podcast. Don't 358 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,559 forget to send us your questions to ask at itchn 359 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,240 dot com.