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<v Speaker 1>Hello, I want to welcome to the nonprofits. So twenty

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<v Speaker 1>plus years since the spotlight scandal came out, the Catholic

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<v Speaker 1>Church is still trying to deny justice for victims, and

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<v Speaker 1>that Trump administration is now backing this. EJ. Let's take

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<v Speaker 1>it away.

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<v Speaker 2>So today we have a story that shocks no one

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<v Speaker 2>and that speaks volumes about the Chops, given that they

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<v Speaker 2>have so many abuse scandals and even more cover ups

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't know about due to the insured nature

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<v Speaker 2>of the church. Is this bill blocking a good idea?

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<v Speaker 2>Today we'll explore it from all sides, both atheist and theist,

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<v Speaker 2>and hopefully we won't have to convince you how horrible

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<v Speaker 2>this truly is.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is going to be a very fun article everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so excited. I love talking about childhood essay. So

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<v Speaker 1>that being said, Stephen, I'm going to start with you,

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<v Speaker 1>my friend. What is your kind of You know I've

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<v Speaker 1>discussed that particular arc. Please explain.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, Like, the idea is that, as it stands

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<v Speaker 3>right now, anything that is confessed to a priest within

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<v Speaker 3>the context of a confessional that is sacred. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's God's will that you cannot violate that which gives

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<v Speaker 3>shelter to uh, you know, people who pray or people

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<v Speaker 3>who put children at risk. And so there is a

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<v Speaker 3>push to say, well, no, I'm sorry. If someone confesses,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, there there the fact that they're that children

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<v Speaker 3>are at danger, you have you have a legal obligation

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<v Speaker 3>to report that to the authority. And and they're they're

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<v Speaker 3>giving leeway, they're giving latitude to these prees, saying Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't need to come to court, you don't need

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<v Speaker 3>to make a statement or anything like that. You just

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<v Speaker 3>need to notify the authorities. And then they'll take it

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<v Speaker 3>from there. They'll dive in. And the church is saying, sorry,

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<v Speaker 3>we have special rules here. If something is confessed within

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<v Speaker 3>the confessional, then that is sacred and the priest cannot

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<v Speaker 3>break that sacred trust and if they do, or kicking

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<v Speaker 3>them out. So it's just just the just not only

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<v Speaker 3>is it placing dogma ahead of just common sense. And

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<v Speaker 3>actually it's putting priests, the safety of priests, the well

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<v Speaker 3>being of priest above children who are in danger. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's and that's we shouldn't be surprised by this, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, you're a Canadian, so being from our

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful door the neighbor. Thank you for being an emotional

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<v Speaker 1>sport Canadian. By the way, how do you feel about

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<v Speaker 1>like the federal government actually kind of stepping in and

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<v Speaker 1>being like, yeah, this is perfectly acceptable for us to

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<v Speaker 1>like support the Catholic Church rather than victims. And how

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<v Speaker 1>does that kind of like how do you square that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, living outside the United States and your feelings

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<v Speaker 1>of like the sense of justice that is definitely not

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<v Speaker 1>happening now, like.

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<v Speaker 3>I I should Yeah, I'm very curious, Like this is

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<v Speaker 3>clearly an American perspective, but because this is so much

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<v Speaker 3>bigger than nations, this is you know, the church doctrine,

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<v Speaker 3>which is a global institution. I don't know now, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>really curious if it is any different here in Canada.

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<v Speaker 3>But like, by all means no, Like this this is how,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, systems of perpetrate predatory systems are insulated from

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<v Speaker 3>justice and from actually caring about the children that they're

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<v Speaker 3>supposed to care about. Apparently all life is sacred, and

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<v Speaker 3>yet in a situation like this, where that child's betterment

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<v Speaker 3>is in danger, it's just ludicrous that any government would

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<v Speaker 3>stand aside and say, well, you know what, you guys,

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<v Speaker 3>make your own rules in this one area where our

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<v Speaker 3>citizens are in danger, and I just it baffles, it

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<v Speaker 3>buggles the mind.

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<v Speaker 1>To be fair, O, lives are sacred until well song

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<v Speaker 1>as they're in the womb. That is very on brand

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<v Speaker 1>for a Catholic. So I'm just kidding, just point that

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<v Speaker 1>out as a former Catholic. Anyway, EJ, what was your

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<v Speaker 1>kind of feelings on this article?

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm sure as for atheists we can all point

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<v Speaker 2>out how disgusting this is. It's worse from a Catholic perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I, if I might go on a small tangent,

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<v Speaker 2>I tell you. So, Let's say a child goes to

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<v Speaker 2>abuse at the hands of a trusted adult, and that

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<v Speaker 2>adult goes to the priests and confesses that priest cannot

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<v Speaker 2>and does not go to the police due to fear

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<v Speaker 2>of excommunication, which might mean going to Hell. However, if

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<v Speaker 2>they don't go to the police, that kid grows up

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<v Speaker 2>and resents the church they didn't stop and act so

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<v Speaker 2>horrible as sexual abuse when they could have, so they

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<v Speaker 2>become an atheist or a pagan or some other community

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<v Speaker 2>outside of Christianity that is condemned to hell. The abuse

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<v Speaker 2>are they are remaining Catholicism. So doctrine of states, abuser

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<v Speaker 2>goes to heaven, victim goes to hell? How they ever

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<v Speaker 2>loving can they call that?

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<v Speaker 3>Just? There is no.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no justice in that.

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<v Speaker 1>So so like let's so let's say you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>say the church and you've been taught at the back

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<v Speaker 1>to salvation even after abusing someone. Uh, fuck you, by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, if you do that, what does this say

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<v Speaker 1>about salvation? If you can just go to your priests

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<v Speaker 1>and they, you know, say, if you, you know our

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<v Speaker 1>fathers say some Hail Marys and you your soul is

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<v Speaker 1>eternally saved even though you're a piece of crap, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And what does this say about like the church incentivizing

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<v Speaker 1>like science and victims and not get and not letting

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<v Speaker 1>them get their day in court, not getting them to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about you know, civilly or on on the judiciary level,

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<v Speaker 1>like how how justice is going to be served?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it shows, I think for one, that this is

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<v Speaker 2>an incredibly outdated system. Yeah, this might have worked, well

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't. But this, for argumentsake might have worked two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand years ago or about one five hundred year ago

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<v Speaker 2>when the Catholic.

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<v Speaker 3>Church was formed.

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<v Speaker 2>But this doesn't work. Now today we know all the

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<v Speaker 2>effects that abuse has on a person, and as I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure all of us can say, the effect of deconvert

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<v Speaker 2>and how stressful that can be, all of that compounding

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<v Speaker 2>on a victim. Because a two thousand year old church

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<v Speaker 2>decides that it wants to protect pedophiles and abusers over

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<v Speaker 2>the victims is insane. It not only brings into question

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<v Speaker 2>the morality of the church, but also the morality of

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<v Speaker 2>the priests who are wearing the cloth. How can you

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<v Speaker 2>call yourself a pillar of the community when the people

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<v Speaker 2>you are protecting are actively hurting your community.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a good question, and I think some people

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<v Speaker 1>need to be asked that question. EG. I like you

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. I would love to hear your perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Please share, my friend.

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<v Speaker 4>So, first I would like to say that, in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 4>the Catholic Church was outdated fifteen hundred years ago, just

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<v Speaker 4>saying but besides everything that was said here by our friends,

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<v Speaker 4>I would like to just give a sense of comparison

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<v Speaker 4>by explaining how it is in France. So there is

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<v Speaker 4>no law specifically protecting priests from having to disclose sexual

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<v Speaker 4>abuse on children, but the current dress prudence allows it.

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<v Speaker 4>Priests who denounced such behavior are, however, legally protected. It

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<v Speaker 4>cannot be excommunicated in France for that, although no such

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<v Speaker 4>case has ever happened in France. On like four years

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<v Speaker 4>ago almost a report from an independent commission estimated that

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<v Speaker 4>two hundred and sixteen thousand people over the age of

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<v Speaker 4>eighteen had been victims of sexual abuse by the Catholic

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<v Speaker 4>Church in France out of a population of fifty five

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<v Speaker 4>fifty six millions of people above the age of eighteen.

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<v Speaker 4>And this institution is where the rate of sexual abuse

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<v Speaker 4>on miners is the highest outside family. So this has

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<v Speaker 4>to be added on top of all the abuse that

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<v Speaker 4>we are aware of and they were aware of and

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<v Speaker 4>never reported. So if you combine all the data, that

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<v Speaker 4>brings a lot of pain to a lot of children. Basically,

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<v Speaker 4>and yeah, like I said, the Catholic Church was outdated

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<v Speaker 4>fifteen hundred years ago. I don't understand how we because

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<v Speaker 4>the thing is, this is not the institution policing itself.

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<v Speaker 4>It states outside the institution that have to police the institution.

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<v Speaker 4>And this institution hasn't shown in again two thousand years

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<v Speaker 4>that it's not willing to police itself unless it has

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<v Speaker 4>to and it is forced to. And so it's the

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<v Speaker 4>most criminal organization on the planet and it will be

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<v Speaker 4>still for the case to come.

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<v Speaker 1>So just in France, Allan, there's two hundred and sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>thousand mcdims estimated, so and this is not that's just France.

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<v Speaker 1>And we know all back in the early two thousands

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<v Speaker 1>when the spials and or scandal, there were thousands and

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of people that have been abused within the Catholic Church.

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<v Speaker 1>My CICD teacher when I was allegation's capital came out

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<v Speaker 1>a large himself. So this was something that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>definitely infected you know, even my local community. So given

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<v Speaker 1>that the current legal holes that are allowed to terrible

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<v Speaker 1>human beings, do you think that they can be legitally defended?

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<v Speaker 1>Because to me, I think that anyone that defends this

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<v Speaker 1>type of crap deserves murder, Hornets and his people. So

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to hear your perspectives.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think it's it's an outdated principle to believe

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<v Speaker 4>that Christs have some moral superiority that gives them the

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<v Speaker 4>ability to manipulate this information UH in a proper way,

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<v Speaker 4>like UH priests are one of three categories of people

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<v Speaker 4>who who cannot be forced to uh to report crap

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<v Speaker 4>time to well sexual abuse to children. It's lawyers, doctors,

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<v Speaker 4>and priests. And I understand it on the other two categories,

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<v Speaker 4>but it doesn't mean anything anymore today, especially in Europe,

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<v Speaker 4>the priests have a very very low footprints in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of power, in terms of representtivity, in terms of you

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<v Speaker 4>know all this, So this needs to go. Also, I

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<v Speaker 4>would like to add that on top of the victims

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<v Speaker 4>that are still alive today that can be counted, as

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<v Speaker 4>you alluded to, there are all these people who were

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<v Speaker 4>victims and who are not alive. Like how many children

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<v Speaker 4>is it in the Ireland scandal with the nuns that

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<v Speaker 4>just let baby die, babies die because they were born

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<v Speaker 4>out of wedlock. How many three thousands or four thousands?

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, the number is most likely much much higher.

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<v Speaker 3>Like can I believe.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me not go ahead say things.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a tax funded system. Our tax money is

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<v Speaker 3>supporting this system, and I don't want us to lose

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<v Speaker 3>sight of the fact that this isn't just like oh,

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<v Speaker 3>the girl guides or the boy scouts or the bowling team,

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<v Speaker 3>our tax these are the fact that they have their

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<v Speaker 3>charity status means that our money is supporting these systems

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<v Speaker 3>that are not protecting its citizens. And I think we,

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<v Speaker 3>like we need to readdress this situation. Like I can

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<v Speaker 3>understand that the churches and chair and the Catholic Church

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<v Speaker 3>is possible of doing some good, but we really need

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<v Speaker 3>to assess how much evil they're doing uh and how

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<v Speaker 3>much we as citizens rey want our tax dollars to

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<v Speaker 3>be supporting those organizations.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have opinions, but EG, I know you're chapping

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<v Speaker 1>at the bit, so EJ, please share.

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<v Speaker 2>The fact that not only our tax money goes to

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<v Speaker 2>the Catholic Church, but it's an international organization that has

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<v Speaker 2>moved priests around to hide abusers is not only unconsionable,

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<v Speaker 2>but I would go so far as to say that

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<v Speaker 2>it's well well over due time for a full stripping

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<v Speaker 2>down of the Catholic Church and an investigation like internationally

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<v Speaker 2>into all the big players within it, because the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that this happens at small local levels is not understandable,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is predictable with any institution that has a

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<v Speaker 2>central person in power. But the fact that they are

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<v Speaker 2>so often protected says that the problem must go all

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<v Speaker 2>the way to the top.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, made up of white men. That's worth three billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>And numbers are declining, you know, so that's another thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to go as well, I know, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, Lucifer. Anyway, so that's okay, and let's just

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<v Speaker 1>take a pause. Okay, about like what this article was

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<v Speaker 1>actually saying about the Department Justice, the civil rights investigation

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<v Speaker 1>that's going on, which announced that investigation into the law

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<v Speaker 1>asserting that in making a fringe on First Amendment rights

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<v Speaker 1>of cleartory by compelling them to violate the confidentiality of confession. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to point out if you are a teacher,

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<v Speaker 1>you are a lawyer, you are a counselor you are

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<v Speaker 1>a psychiatrist. You if someone says that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>cause harm to themselves or to somebody else, or there's

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<v Speaker 1>a report of harm to like children or minors or

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<v Speaker 1>people vulnerable populations, you are required by law in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. You are you are required to report that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to give these wonderful little special exceptions to

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<v Speaker 1>some people that work color and and proclaim that they

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<v Speaker 1>talked to God in a room great and magic smokes

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<v Speaker 1>decides who's going to be the next pope. Great for

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<v Speaker 1>them now, Sydney, Hi, given this kind of wacked use

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<v Speaker 1>system that has been set up by the Cathel Church,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you how do you feel about the Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Justice talking about confidentiality in regards to child abuse.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's city. I think it no no profession,

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<v Speaker 4>on on on the planet should have the the the

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<v Speaker 4>ability to hide sexual abuse on on on a child

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<v Speaker 4>or on on a even an adult. I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>it's more justifiable. I don't think it's uh it's it's

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's still caused by by this uh special or

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<v Speaker 4>I would say that the religious has in our societies

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<v Speaker 4>and it will take a lot of time before we

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<v Speaker 4>can get rid of it and by in the same

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<v Speaker 4>time get rid of all the exceptions and special rules

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<v Speaker 4>they've been benefiting from in the last fifteen hundred years.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, it's it's not I understand that. Yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 4>I understand that the US is going slowly towards religious government,

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<v Speaker 4>almost theocracy. But there's so many issues right in the

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<v Speaker 4>US that it's hard to say how they can get

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<v Speaker 4>out of these issues, specifically this one.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how you can defend the indefensible. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, people are going to do mental gymastics and

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to happen. It's disgusting and terrible, but we

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<v Speaker 1>see it all the time. So like, I am the

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<v Speaker 1>only American on this panel, all all you foreigners my

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<v Speaker 1>prophets this week, I know you can shame me. It's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a kink anyway. So that being said, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna turn this over to you, EJ. As a foreigner,

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<v Speaker 1>you live overseas in a wonderful country that is not

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. How Like, are there similar laws that

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<v Speaker 1>protect like the Catholic church where you rest your head?

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<v Speaker 2>As far as in Scotland, I don't know if there

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<v Speaker 2>are any laws that require them to report it, mainly

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<v Speaker 2>because in Scotland there is a big there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of sectarting abuse between Catholics and Protestants, so legislating quickly

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<v Speaker 2>becomes a very, very big issue. However, as far as

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<v Speaker 2>I'm aware, there isn't anything that says they should mandatorily report. However,

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<v Speaker 2>I have heard of a few cases in Scotland of

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<v Speaker 2>them telling the authorities. However, where I live specifically has

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of vigilanteism, so a lot of times. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of places like that in Scotland where they

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<v Speaker 2>don't tell the authorities, they let it be known in

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<v Speaker 2>the community and the community source it out.

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<v Speaker 1>So that being said, do you think there's too much

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<v Speaker 1>of like this in boy club of you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like the mop you know, everybody kind of

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<v Speaker 1>protects each other and then if you're if you kind

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<v Speaker 1>of squeal your rat. That's that's a vibe. I'm getting

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch.

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<v Speaker 2>Of old Italians who use violence together. Way, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>can see.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that feels very it feels very mob like.

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<v Speaker 1>So so that so that being said, Stephen, I.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like just a piggyback off that point there all

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<v Speaker 3>for you. I'm so sorry, Helen. But just just to

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<v Speaker 3>tie into that point, like this, this is like broadly

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<v Speaker 3>applied to confessions in general, right, but in the instance

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<v Speaker 3>like and it doesn't have to specifically be about the

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<v Speaker 3>church protecting its own perpetrators. But in the event that

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<v Speaker 3>a priest does have Heaven forbid something to confess to

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<v Speaker 3>another priest, they like they're going to get an understanding

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<v Speaker 3>ear and it's just going to all stay so insular.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's not even about protecting children in general. But

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<v Speaker 3>it's so tied so deeply, like we know that, like

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<v Speaker 3>we've said over and over again, we know that the

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<v Speaker 3>church isn't capable of self disciplining, self regulating, and like

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<v Speaker 3>this this whole idea of just like trust me, it's fine,

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<v Speaker 3>Like this is how priests can protect priests and like

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<v Speaker 3>a couple Hail Mary's and some rosaries just should not

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<v Speaker 3>be enough, do you think.

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<v Speaker 1>So, So to go back to Cindy, because I know

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<v Speaker 1>I have have some opinions, So I would love to

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<v Speaker 1>hear any final thoughts you have on this wonderful conversation

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<v Speaker 1>we're having.

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<v Speaker 4>You come back to what Steven was just saying. It's

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<v Speaker 4>important to remember that the secret of confession is only

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<v Speaker 4>when the individual confesses to the priests. Once the priests

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<v Speaker 4>tells it to other people, including other priests, then it's

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<v Speaker 4>no longer the secret of confession, and it's no longer

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<v Speaker 4>covered by the specificity of the law. So the moment

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<v Speaker 4>the priest tells it to someone else, even if it's

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<v Speaker 4>a cardinal, the priest or the pope, then that persons

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<v Speaker 4>is legally bound to tell it.

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<v Speaker 1>And there you go. Now I know that we have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of wonderful viewers that I also think that

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we should be looking at religious structor shures about

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<v Speaker 1>how we're talking about abuse to the most vulnerable people

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<v Speaker 1>in the population and stuff. You want to know more

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<v Speaker 1>about this and other wonderful things that we've got to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about. Click on another video.