Speaker 1: Hello, I want to welcome to the nonprofits. So twenty
Speaker 1: plus years since the spotlight scandal came out, the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church is still trying to deny justice for victims, and
Speaker 1: that Trump administration is now backing this. EJ. Let's take
Speaker 1: it away.
Speaker 2: So today we have a story that shocks no one
Speaker 2: and that speaks volumes about the Chops, given that they
Speaker 2: have so many abuse scandals and even more cover ups
Speaker 2: that we don't know about due to the insured nature
Speaker 2: of the church. Is this bill blocking a good idea?
Speaker 2: Today we'll explore it from all sides, both atheist and theist,
Speaker 2: and hopefully we won't have to convince you how horrible
Speaker 2: this truly is.
Speaker 1: So this is going to be a very fun article everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I love talking about childhood essay. So
Speaker 1: that being said, Stephen, I'm going to start with you,
Speaker 1: my friend. What is your kind of You know I've
Speaker 1: discussed that particular arc. Please explain.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Like, the idea is that, as it stands
Speaker 3: right now, anything that is confessed to a priest within
Speaker 3: the context of a confessional that is sacred. You know,
Speaker 3: it's God's will that you cannot violate that which gives
Speaker 3: shelter to uh, you know, people who pray or people
Speaker 3: who put children at risk. And so there is a
Speaker 3: push to say, well, no, I'm sorry. If someone confesses,
Speaker 3: you know, there there the fact that they're that children
Speaker 3: are at danger, you have you have a legal obligation
Speaker 3: to report that to the authority. And and they're they're
Speaker 3: giving leeway, they're giving latitude to these prees, saying Okay,
Speaker 3: you don't need to come to court, you don't need
Speaker 3: to make a statement or anything like that. You just
Speaker 3: need to notify the authorities. And then they'll take it
Speaker 3: from there. They'll dive in. And the church is saying, sorry,
Speaker 3: we have special rules here. If something is confessed within
Speaker 3: the confessional, then that is sacred and the priest cannot
Speaker 3: break that sacred trust and if they do, or kicking
Speaker 3: them out. So it's just just the just not only
Speaker 3: is it placing dogma ahead of just common sense. And
Speaker 3: actually it's putting priests, the safety of priests, the well
Speaker 3: being of priest above children who are in danger. And
Speaker 3: that's and that's we shouldn't be surprised by this, right.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, you're a Canadian, so being from our
Speaker 1: wonderful door the neighbor. Thank you for being an emotional
Speaker 1: sport Canadian. By the way, how do you feel about
Speaker 1: like the federal government actually kind of stepping in and
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, this is perfectly acceptable for us to
Speaker 1: like support the Catholic Church rather than victims. And how
Speaker 1: does that kind of like how do you square that,
Speaker 1: you know, living outside the United States and your feelings
Speaker 1: of like the sense of justice that is definitely not
Speaker 1: happening now, like.
Speaker 3: I I should Yeah, I'm very curious, Like this is
Speaker 3: clearly an American perspective, but because this is so much
Speaker 3: bigger than nations, this is you know, the church doctrine,
Speaker 3: which is a global institution. I don't know now, I'm
Speaker 3: really curious if it is any different here in Canada.
Speaker 3: But like, by all means no, Like this this is how,
Speaker 3: you know, systems of perpetrate predatory systems are insulated from
Speaker 3: justice and from actually caring about the children that they're
Speaker 3: supposed to care about. Apparently all life is sacred, and
Speaker 3: yet in a situation like this, where that child's betterment
Speaker 3: is in danger, it's just ludicrous that any government would
Speaker 3: stand aside and say, well, you know what, you guys,
Speaker 3: make your own rules in this one area where our
Speaker 3: citizens are in danger, and I just it baffles, it
Speaker 3: buggles the mind.
Speaker 1: To be fair, O, lives are sacred until well song
Speaker 1: as they're in the womb. That is very on brand
Speaker 1: for a Catholic. So I'm just kidding, just point that
Speaker 1: out as a former Catholic. Anyway, EJ, what was your
Speaker 1: kind of feelings on this article?
Speaker 2: So I'm sure as for atheists we can all point
Speaker 2: out how disgusting this is. It's worse from a Catholic perspective.
Speaker 2: So if I, if I might go on a small tangent,
Speaker 2: I tell you. So, Let's say a child goes to
Speaker 2: abuse at the hands of a trusted adult, and that
Speaker 2: adult goes to the priests and confesses that priest cannot
Speaker 2: and does not go to the police due to fear
Speaker 2: of excommunication, which might mean going to Hell. However, if
Speaker 2: they don't go to the police, that kid grows up
Speaker 2: and resents the church they didn't stop and act so
Speaker 2: horrible as sexual abuse when they could have, so they
Speaker 2: become an atheist or a pagan or some other community
Speaker 2: outside of Christianity that is condemned to hell. The abuse
Speaker 2: are they are remaining Catholicism. So doctrine of states, abuser
Speaker 2: goes to heaven, victim goes to hell? How they ever
Speaker 2: loving can they call that?
Speaker 3: Just? There is no.
Speaker 2: There's no justice in that.
Speaker 1: So so like let's so let's say you're going to
Speaker 1: say the church and you've been taught at the back
Speaker 1: to salvation even after abusing someone. Uh, fuck you, by
Speaker 1: the way, if you do that, what does this say
Speaker 1: about salvation? If you can just go to your priests
Speaker 1: and they, you know, say, if you, you know our
Speaker 1: fathers say some Hail Marys and you your soul is
Speaker 1: eternally saved even though you're a piece of crap, you know.
Speaker 1: And what does this say about like the church incentivizing
Speaker 1: like science and victims and not get and not letting
Speaker 1: them get their day in court, not getting them to
Speaker 1: talk about you know, civilly or on on the judiciary level,
Speaker 1: like how how justice is going to be served?
Speaker 2: Well, it shows, I think for one, that this is
Speaker 2: an incredibly outdated system. Yeah, this might have worked, well
Speaker 2: it didn't. But this, for argumentsake might have worked two
Speaker 2: thousand years ago or about one five hundred year ago
Speaker 2: when the Catholic.
Speaker 3: Church was formed.
Speaker 2: But this doesn't work. Now today we know all the
Speaker 2: effects that abuse has on a person, and as I'm
Speaker 2: sure all of us can say, the effect of deconvert
Speaker 2: and how stressful that can be, all of that compounding
Speaker 2: on a victim. Because a two thousand year old church
Speaker 2: decides that it wants to protect pedophiles and abusers over
Speaker 2: the victims is insane. It not only brings into question
Speaker 2: the morality of the church, but also the morality of
Speaker 2: the priests who are wearing the cloth. How can you
Speaker 2: call yourself a pillar of the community when the people
Speaker 2: you are protecting are actively hurting your community.
Speaker 1: That is a good question, and I think some people
Speaker 1: need to be asked that question. EG. I like you
Speaker 1: to do that. I would love to hear your perspective.
Speaker 1: Please share, my friend.
Speaker 4: So, first I would like to say that, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: the Catholic Church was outdated fifteen hundred years ago, just
Speaker 4: saying but besides everything that was said here by our friends,
Speaker 4: I would like to just give a sense of comparison
Speaker 4: by explaining how it is in France. So there is
Speaker 4: no law specifically protecting priests from having to disclose sexual
Speaker 4: abuse on children, but the current dress prudence allows it.
Speaker 4: Priests who denounced such behavior are, however, legally protected. It
Speaker 4: cannot be excommunicated in France for that, although no such
Speaker 4: case has ever happened in France. On like four years
Speaker 4: ago almost a report from an independent commission estimated that
Speaker 4: two hundred and sixteen thousand people over the age of
Speaker 4: eighteen had been victims of sexual abuse by the Catholic
Speaker 4: Church in France out of a population of fifty five
Speaker 4: fifty six millions of people above the age of eighteen.
Speaker 4: And this institution is where the rate of sexual abuse
Speaker 4: on miners is the highest outside family. So this has
Speaker 4: to be added on top of all the abuse that
Speaker 4: we are aware of and they were aware of and
Speaker 4: never reported. So if you combine all the data, that
Speaker 4: brings a lot of pain to a lot of children. Basically,
Speaker 4: and yeah, like I said, the Catholic Church was outdated
Speaker 4: fifteen hundred years ago. I don't understand how we because
Speaker 4: the thing is, this is not the institution policing itself.
Speaker 4: It states outside the institution that have to police the institution.
Speaker 4: And this institution hasn't shown in again two thousand years
Speaker 4: that it's not willing to police itself unless it has
Speaker 4: to and it is forced to. And so it's the
Speaker 4: most criminal organization on the planet and it will be
Speaker 4: still for the case to come.
Speaker 1: So just in France, Allan, there's two hundred and sixteen
Speaker 1: thousand mcdims estimated, so and this is not that's just France.
Speaker 1: And we know all back in the early two thousands
Speaker 1: when the spials and or scandal, there were thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of people that have been abused within the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: My CICD teacher when I was allegation's capital came out
Speaker 1: a large himself. So this was something that you know,
Speaker 1: definitely infected you know, even my local community. So given
Speaker 1: that the current legal holes that are allowed to terrible
Speaker 1: human beings, do you think that they can be legitally defended?
Speaker 1: Because to me, I think that anyone that defends this
Speaker 1: type of crap deserves murder, Hornets and his people. So
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your perspectives.
Speaker 4: And I think it's it's an outdated principle to believe
Speaker 4: that Christs have some moral superiority that gives them the
Speaker 4: ability to manipulate this information UH in a proper way,
Speaker 4: like UH priests are one of three categories of people
Speaker 4: who who cannot be forced to uh to report crap
Speaker 4: time to well sexual abuse to children. It's lawyers, doctors,
Speaker 4: and priests. And I understand it on the other two categories,
Speaker 4: but it doesn't mean anything anymore today, especially in Europe,
Speaker 4: the priests have a very very low footprints in terms
Speaker 4: of power, in terms of representtivity, in terms of you
Speaker 4: know all this, So this needs to go. Also, I
Speaker 4: would like to add that on top of the victims
Speaker 4: that are still alive today that can be counted, as
Speaker 4: you alluded to, there are all these people who were
Speaker 4: victims and who are not alive. Like how many children
Speaker 4: is it in the Ireland scandal with the nuns that
Speaker 4: just let baby die, babies die because they were born
Speaker 4: out of wedlock. How many three thousands or four thousands?
Speaker 4: So yeah, the number is most likely much much higher.
Speaker 3: Like can I believe.
Speaker 1: Let me not go ahead say things.
Speaker 3: This is a tax funded system. Our tax money is
Speaker 3: supporting this system, and I don't want us to lose
Speaker 3: sight of the fact that this isn't just like oh,
Speaker 3: the girl guides or the boy scouts or the bowling team,
Speaker 3: our tax these are the fact that they have their
Speaker 3: charity status means that our money is supporting these systems
Speaker 3: that are not protecting its citizens. And I think we,
Speaker 3: like we need to readdress this situation. Like I can
Speaker 3: understand that the churches and chair and the Catholic Church
Speaker 3: is possible of doing some good, but we really need
Speaker 3: to assess how much evil they're doing uh and how
Speaker 3: much we as citizens rey want our tax dollars to
Speaker 3: be supporting those organizations.
Speaker 1: So I have opinions, but EG, I know you're chapping
Speaker 1: at the bit, so EJ, please share.
Speaker 2: The fact that not only our tax money goes to
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church, but it's an international organization that has
Speaker 2: moved priests around to hide abusers is not only unconsionable,
Speaker 2: but I would go so far as to say that
Speaker 2: it's well well over due time for a full stripping
Speaker 2: down of the Catholic Church and an investigation like internationally
Speaker 2: into all the big players within it, because the fact
Speaker 2: that this happens at small local levels is not understandable,
Speaker 2: but it is predictable with any institution that has a
Speaker 2: central person in power. But the fact that they are
Speaker 2: so often protected says that the problem must go all
Speaker 2: the way to the top.
Speaker 3: Yeah, made up of white men. That's worth three billion dollars.
Speaker 1: And numbers are declining, you know, so that's another thing
Speaker 1: that's going to go as well, I know, right, So
Speaker 1: thank you, Lucifer. Anyway, so that's okay, and let's just
Speaker 1: take a pause. Okay, about like what this article was
Speaker 1: actually saying about the Department Justice, the civil rights investigation
Speaker 1: that's going on, which announced that investigation into the law
Speaker 1: asserting that in making a fringe on First Amendment rights
Speaker 1: of cleartory by compelling them to violate the confidentiality of confession. Now,
Speaker 1: I want to point out if you are a teacher,
Speaker 1: you are a lawyer, you are a counselor you are
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. You if someone says that they're going to
Speaker 1: cause harm to themselves or to somebody else, or there's
Speaker 1: a report of harm to like children or minors or
Speaker 1: people vulnerable populations, you are required by law in the
Speaker 1: United States. You are you are required to report that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to give these wonderful little special exceptions to
Speaker 1: some people that work color and and proclaim that they
Speaker 1: talked to God in a room great and magic smokes
Speaker 1: decides who's going to be the next pope. Great for
Speaker 1: them now, Sydney, Hi, given this kind of wacked use
Speaker 1: system that has been set up by the Cathel Church,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you feel about the Department
Speaker 1: of Justice talking about confidentiality in regards to child abuse.
Speaker 4: I think it's city. I think it no no profession,
Speaker 4: on on on the planet should have the the the
Speaker 4: ability to hide sexual abuse on on on a child
Speaker 4: or on on a even an adult. I don't think
Speaker 4: it's more justifiable. I don't think it's uh it's it's
Speaker 4: it's it's still caused by by this uh special or
Speaker 4: I would say that the religious has in our societies
Speaker 4: and it will take a lot of time before we
Speaker 4: can get rid of it and by in the same
Speaker 4: time get rid of all the exceptions and special rules
Speaker 4: they've been benefiting from in the last fifteen hundred years.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's it's not I understand that. Yeah, no,
Speaker 4: I understand that the US is going slowly towards religious government,
Speaker 4: almost theocracy. But there's so many issues right in the
Speaker 4: US that it's hard to say how they can get
Speaker 4: out of these issues, specifically this one.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can defend the indefensible. But
Speaker 1: you know, people are going to do mental gymastics and
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. It's disgusting and terrible, but we
Speaker 1: see it all the time. So like, I am the
Speaker 1: only American on this panel, all all you foreigners my
Speaker 1: prophets this week, I know you can shame me. It's fine.
Speaker 1: It's a kink anyway. So that being said, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna turn this over to you, EJ. As a foreigner,
Speaker 1: you live overseas in a wonderful country that is not
Speaker 1: the United States. How Like, are there similar laws that
Speaker 1: protect like the Catholic church where you rest your head?
Speaker 2: As far as in Scotland, I don't know if there
Speaker 2: are any laws that require them to report it, mainly
Speaker 2: because in Scotland there is a big there's a lot
Speaker 2: of sectarting abuse between Catholics and Protestants, so legislating quickly
Speaker 2: becomes a very, very big issue. However, as far as
Speaker 2: I'm aware, there isn't anything that says they should mandatorily report. However,
Speaker 2: I have heard of a few cases in Scotland of
Speaker 2: them telling the authorities. However, where I live specifically has
Speaker 2: a lot of vigilanteism, so a lot of times. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of places like that in Scotland where they
Speaker 2: don't tell the authorities, they let it be known in
Speaker 2: the community and the community source it out.
Speaker 1: So that being said, do you think there's too much
Speaker 1: of like this in boy club of you know, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like the mop you know, everybody kind of
Speaker 1: protects each other and then if you're if you kind
Speaker 1: of squeal your rat. That's that's a vibe. I'm getting
Speaker 1: a bunch.
Speaker 2: Of old Italians who use violence together. Way, yeah, I
Speaker 2: can see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that feels very it feels very mob like.
Speaker 1: So so that so that being said, Stephen, I.
Speaker 3: It's like just a piggyback off that point there all
Speaker 3: for you. I'm so sorry, Helen. But just just to
Speaker 3: tie into that point, like this, this is like broadly
Speaker 3: applied to confessions in general, right, but in the instance
Speaker 3: like and it doesn't have to specifically be about the
Speaker 3: church protecting its own perpetrators. But in the event that
Speaker 3: a priest does have Heaven forbid something to confess to
Speaker 3: another priest, they like they're going to get an understanding
Speaker 3: ear and it's just going to all stay so insular.
Speaker 3: So it's not even about protecting children in general. But
Speaker 3: it's so tied so deeply, like we know that, like
Speaker 3: we've said over and over again, we know that the
Speaker 3: church isn't capable of self disciplining, self regulating, and like
Speaker 3: this this whole idea of just like trust me, it's fine,
Speaker 3: Like this is how priests can protect priests and like
Speaker 3: a couple Hail Mary's and some rosaries just should not
Speaker 3: be enough, do you think.
Speaker 1: So, So to go back to Cindy, because I know
Speaker 1: I have have some opinions, So I would love to
Speaker 1: hear any final thoughts you have on this wonderful conversation
Speaker 1: we're having.
Speaker 4: You come back to what Steven was just saying. It's
Speaker 4: important to remember that the secret of confession is only
Speaker 4: when the individual confesses to the priests. Once the priests
Speaker 4: tells it to other people, including other priests, then it's
Speaker 4: no longer the secret of confession, and it's no longer
Speaker 4: covered by the specificity of the law. So the moment
Speaker 4: the priest tells it to someone else, even if it's
Speaker 4: a cardinal, the priest or the pope, then that persons
Speaker 4: is legally bound to tell it.
Speaker 1: And there you go. Now I know that we have
Speaker 1: a lot of wonderful viewers that I also think that
Speaker 1: maybe we should be looking at religious structor shures about
Speaker 1: how we're talking about abuse to the most vulnerable people
Speaker 1: in the population and stuff. You want to know more
Speaker 1: about this and other wonderful things that we've got to
Speaker 1: talk about. Click on another video.