Speaker 1: What's up, Fellasico's I am Dana Valley coming at you
with an emergency ish since we waited a little bit.
Podcast Mort Jensen of Yahoo Sports fame, of the NBA
podcast fame, and of Forbes fame, as well as only
fan celebrity is here to help me break down the
Kevin Durant trade. He's headed to the Houston Rockets in
exchange for John Green Dylan Brooks number ten five second
round picks. We'll get into the details a little bit
more in a second before we get started. You know,
I'm cranky about this trade, Like I'm just it was
game seven day of the NBA Finals. I know what happened,
with plenty of time beforehand, but I wanted to just
kind of focus in basking that maybe for like a
day or two, like let's have the Sunday to prep
and then the Monday afterwards. But no, but no, Mort,
how the heck are you doing well?
Speaker 2: Unlike you, I'm not a sour thing who was like
all bend out of shape, like more action on NBA Finals. Stay,
let's go, It's fine, spread it out.
Speaker 1: I don't We're gonna be sitting here one day in
August lamenting that like, we don't have anything to talk about,
so we're gonna litigate.
Speaker 2: Do you really want an August Durant trade?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Hell I look, I'm the type of person that
likes to keep busy, so like the monotony of the
offseason at points can get to me. So but this
is just like also, it's Kevin and.
Speaker 2: You talking like this is where we differ so greatly.
I'm so European and comes out my ass like August
is just that is that is holiday. Don't fuck with
my holiday. Give me all the news now, and I'll
take a month off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't congratulations to you for getting
a month off that doesn't happen around here, least not
at least not for me, which no complaints. I do
love what I do most of the time. Let's dig
into this trade, though, because I think we're gonna have
some differences of opinion on it. So the details for
anyone who might be living under a rock. The Houston
Rockets are getting Kevin Durant. He is a year and
fifty four point seven million dollars left on his contract.
The Suns are receiving Dylan Brooks. He is two years
and forty three point one million left on his deal.
Jail and Green three years in one oh three point
five million remaining. That exten that's an extension his rookie scale,
the extension that he's going to begin next season. He
has a player option for that third year in twenty
twenty seven twenty twenty eight. They're also getting the number
ten pick, which was also their own pick, so they
could have had it. In addition to five second round picks.
We're gonna end up starting with the Suns. But I
just want your initial, like knee jerk reaction to when
you saw this package kind of trickle out because the
destination we kind of had a feeling it was going
to be spurs or rockets, maybe the heat. What did
you end up just thinking when you saw the final
like details of everything.
Speaker 2: The number one thought I had was, oh, that's fitting.
And the reason I went to that immediately was because
a couple of weeks ago, I wrote a piece over
Yahoo where I basically said, don't overpay for Kevin durand like,
I love the guy. He's still obviously elite, but he's
going to be forty seven. There's going to be an
end date to like for how long he's going to
be elite and how long he's gonna even stay in
the league. So for me to read, you know, the
relinquished package, that just fell perfectly aligned to what my
own expectations were about here and my own evaluation. So
to me, it was like, oh, yeah, that's that's solid.
Speaker 1: I think this probably ended up being a little less
than I was expecting, but I was not in the
camp of you know, we looked at it. I think
a lot from the vantage point of the Spurs, where
it's no, you're not trading Steph Castle or number two
to get Kevin Durant about to turn thirty seven in
the final year of his contract. I probably thought that I,
I guess, I don't know what I was expecting, but
it was probably at least a little bit more than this,
or at least a return that I deemed more coherent
for Phoenix. And that's where I just kind of want
to start here, is so the Suns you wrote a
little bit about this already, Just where do they get?
You have Jalen Green, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker now on
the same books one hundred and forty plus million dollars
just owed the pure shooting guards that goes up if
you don't consider Dylan Brooks wing. They're actually taking on
money as part of this deal before I throw it
to you because of the number ten pick hold. And
also Green and Brooks make more than Kevin Durant. I
think Green also has a trade kicker in there. So
they're gonna get out of the second Apron. They're more
than twenty million dollars into it right now. That does
include number ten, the prospective bonuses and kickers, as well
as non guaranteed deals for like me Sitch and Cody Martin,
so they can waiving those two guys can immediately get
you very close to getting out of the second apron.
What do you just like? What are your impressions of
Phoenix accepting this return? Do you think it was they
really didn't have any other options, they were kind of
boxed into this or I just I don't know what
to make of it, because I personally I do not
like this return for them.
Speaker 2: And that's fair. I think I said this could be
a win win, and the way I view a win
win in this situation is they get the number tenth
pick that's going to be additional flexibility moving forward in
terms of having being a cost controlled asset who might be,
you know, outplaying his contractual worth. You also get longer, younger.
In terms of Jalen Green, I know he's another shooting
guard and you have three of them, but perhaps they
are planning to reroute him. Perhaps down the line they
can do something with Bradley Beal. I just don't hate
that contract getting in there. I know that I'm not
high on him in particular. I know you aren't either,
but we also have to appreciate the fact that he
does produce at a young age, like he does take
and make a lot of threes. He is a guy
who who can get you a certain level of production.
But the Dylan Brooks inclusion is one I really like
for Phoenix specifically. I think he just kind of fits
that mold. I think he fits also into something that
they needed. They didn't have that dude who was just
kind of barking through everything and who just kind of
sets the tone. Defensively. I thought Phoenix this season just
came in with this very laxed, daisical, almost borderline lacy
mentality defensively that is going to be ramped up by
a pretty fair magnitude, I think with the inclusion of Brooks,
so I don't hate it, like, could there have been
better deals out there? Potentially? I guess we'll find out
at some point. But knowing that Miami basically didn't want
to give up anyone if the rewarding is true on that,
it also made me feel like, oh, okay, perhaps the
Sons were just like the best offer or sorry, the
Rockets were just the best to offer for Katie. But
I do think the number ten pick, that's that's the
biggest settlement point for me, because I love that area
of the draft, like if come on Malowatch for example,
if he drops the ten, hell, yes, that's a great get.
Colin Morey Boyles as well, great get?
Speaker 1: Like why is I'm sorry? Why is a great get?
Speaker 2: Oh? I love him?
Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite What does he do differently
from a prototypical big man? What is it that you
trust that he does different? Though?
Speaker 2: So I think they're spacing upside there. I don't. He
is just a guy who's like a rim runner. I
trust the shot we saw the free throw rate was,
Oh you don't you did you disagree?
Speaker 1: I sense I just here's my thing. Okay, maybe he
has a spacing, but it's gonna be more of a
party trick. He's not doing it in volume. This is
not He's not coming in here and being a floors. No,
he's not there. There's nothing about his profile that suggests
that he's gonna do that. That just seems like Murray,
Like totally, I'm with you on Colin Murray Boyles, But
like if that's like the game, if there you end
up drafting a center at number ten, that's just gonna
be an all time fumble to.
Speaker 2: Me, just because of the position.
Speaker 1: If you're well the position, if you want, I need
something with more scarcity coming in here as part of
that number ten. So if there's a center who actually
spaces the floor on more than like Yonis Valentunis volume
per game, then you can come talk to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's the thing. I think. I think he's
gonna scale up more than that. I think there's going
to be like a broke lopezz type of situation in
there down the line and not where you don't have
to wait a decade or how way over many years
it was for Brooke to get that shot. I think
we're gonna look at a couple of years and then
he's right there. I'm very, very high on Malowatch, so
that's why I have him in there, and as a
as a major win. Again, it comes down to how
you evaluate these guys. But you and I can at
least agree on Colin Murray boyles him at ten. Hell yeah,
like I wouldn't hate that.
Speaker 1: That's defensively, yeah, that's a nice.
Speaker 2: Exactly, there's a lot to like. Theres the number ten inclusion,
and just also, like I said before, what that gives
you contractually major major bonus? The five seconds, you know,
it's it's nice. It's not something that moves the needle
necessarily unless you do good in the draft, which Phoenix
historically is not a team that he really wants to
get into. That but I just don't think it's as
egregious as people make it out to be. And if
there's a trade lined up for Jalen Green at some
point later this summer, okay, then let's revaluate if that happens.
Speaker 1: So a few things, and I think you know the
seconds are like those are things that more bites at
the draft apple or just sweeteners. You can include to
get other deals over the hump. I think what you
mentioned that's very important is we kind of need to
see I know the reporting was initially that they plan
on keeping Jalen Green, and that's just we know how
that works. Seam sweet, they get a prolific score, Jalen
Green has had moments, He's had stretches. There's nothing that
makes me believe that this is someone they actively prioritized
getting as an asset they hope to reboot. I also recognize, though,
that the two things that I think are also true.
You make this trade independent of saying, oh, we have
Bradley beyond the roster. That's just your saddle with the
not trade clause. So I'm not going to get too
caught up in the shooting guards of it all, or
though it is it is a lot of money worth
the shooting guards it is. I also firmly believe that
teams are not in the business of accepting worse offers
on the table. And so to me, I took this
read as Miami didn't want to include anybody, and you
decided this package of ten Green and books was better
than fourteen. Sohan, Johnson and Barnes from San Antonio, and
I think that I thought whether they did or didn't,
I think saying I'd rather have number ten and Dylan
Brooks and Jalen Green like versus that either way you
want to cut it. I think that's a reasonable stance
to take. What I take issue with here are two things.
And I know Suns fans probably won't like rooting for
Dylan Brooks, but like they absolutely need a player like that, right,
I'm going to start with the trade itself because of
the return, the arbitrary cutoff of the draft or before
the draft, I firmly believe that undercut the return on
Kevin Durant in the sense that, look at the circumstances,
you had what is, as of right now, the single
biggest trade prize on the market at a time when
there's very little cap space, very little free agent talent.
But you kind of pigeonholed yourself into saying, well, we
need to do this by the draft, Whereas if I
believe if you would have waited saying you needed to
wait until August. But had you waited, okay, you don't
get to choose which twenty twenty five prospect you're gonna
get when pick X is on the clock. My response
to that is, who the fuck cares? Because number ten
or number nine, if you were gonna go to the
Toronto Route, those were the highest selections you were ever
gonna get. That's not in all likely gonna change the
course of your franchise. And so I just don't understand
why put yourself in a situation where you've given yourself
even less leverage at a time when teams already knew
you didn't have a ton of it, because you already
tried to move Durant in the middle of the year,
and you know that he kind of now wants to leave.
He even said it afterwards. He was at fanatics Fest
or whatever the fuck it's called and said, oh, Suns
fans didn't want me there. You know, now we both
get what we want. I think that that I know
it sounds stupid and small, but I think that the
mindset of we need to do this before the draft
was beyond dumb. And I'm not saying that they would
have gotten had they waited. Oh the Spurs come in
with Steph Castle and all this stuff. No, oh, that
doesn't happen. But there's a chance another team gets desperate
and do you know I look at this and say,
you're gonna tell me this package would not have been
available to you had you waited until after the draft.
I called them absolutely on that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely that would have been available. And I think
that is the primary criticism here. Absolutely, we're looking at
an ownership group that doesn't seem to be understanding the
benefits of patients. A new owner syndrome is absolutely still
setting in we want to get things done. We're we
want to get them done quickly. And yeah, like you said,
there could be a team out there who might have
anticipated a certain level of summer, may not have realized
those expectations and would have sat there looking at each
other going fuck what now, in which case someone could
have said Kat the other one who has said oh
all right, and then what about bit whoever else had
an offer on the table. So yes, arbitrary deadlines are dumb.
Speaker 1: The other issue I have, and this ties into the
matt ishbia of it, is what do you view? And
I'm not gonna answer my own question, but I have
some file of this. What is the Suns' direction after this?
Because there's just now this troubling pattern of impatience and
incoherence ever since, ever since Matt Ishbia took over. It
starts with the first Kevin Durant trade, where they not
that they didn't negotiate something they didn't negotiate. They just
kept giving the net stuff even though they were the
only team on Kevin Durant's list. They then jumped right
into Bradley Beal. They didn't figure out a way to
keep Tamani Kamara as part of the DeAndre Ayton trade.
They horqux the Bunks a bunch of their pick swaps,
but that twenty thirty one pick that they sent out
for three lesser selections that kind of enabled them to
then turn around and what dump Nurkic at the deadline
and you got Cody Martin back as part of that deal.
And then you have this Kevin Durant thing to where
it's another form of impatience. This has to get done
by the draft. I don't I don't feel confident that,
even if I knew what their direction was. I don't
feel confident in the guy who's running ultimately everything.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Brian Gregory's in charge of the front office now, Jordan
Not's the head coach, but I don't feel confident in
this team actualizing whatever direction it's choosing. But I feel
even I don't even know what the direction is. But
like I thought, I would look at a Kevin Durant
trade return and at least kind of understand what the
endgame was when looking at it all, whereas now if
it was the Spurs is you're kind of looking at
some shorter term contracts and like Harrison Barnes coming off
the books, so maybe they're trying to angle themselves for flexibility,
But I don't look at this package is something that
clarifies anything to me for them.
Speaker 2: Now, it definitely muddies the water a little bit because
if you were thinking that they're going to try to
accelerate in some way or like try to be competitive
or go for the whole shebang next year, they just
got significantly younger, which means they're either trying to load
up for the future. But at the same time, they
also got Dylan Brookson, who is by definition of win
now player, So it feels like they're trying to have
a foot in each camp, and like you, I don't
know which one they're trying to leaning on the most.
I would prefer personally they would scale back a little
bit and say, Okay, it's not going to be this
year or next year. Let's see what we can do.
Can we build something sustainable around Devin Booker over the
next eighteen months or so? And then there let's see
if we have something where we can make a push, Like, what's.
Speaker 1: The pathway to that? I'm sorry answer, but like, I
guess that's what I'm like, what is the past? Probably?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I said eighteen months. Let me just look
at it because it would be after the Bradley Beal trade,
so that's a trade the contract, so that's actually two years, right, Yes.
Speaker 1: What age? What is that? Age? Thirty one Devin Booker
or is it? What is how old is he going
to be at that point?
Speaker 2: For any I think, right, okay.
Speaker 1: That's but it's also just sort of it's the same
thing when we get into like the Nuggets with Yoki
and bus with It's it's okay, the youth part of
their prime is is over.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Devin book that I don't think every at
any point that a Kevin Duran trade was going to
solve that, though, I think, yeah, like they they fucked
up a while ago, right, Like, I don't think there
was a saving grace in there. Like the Devin Booker
situation is always going to be very very fluid because
of their long listed decisions, to their not to their credit,
to their benefit. Book seems hell bent on retiring as
a son, like it seems like he does not want
to leave that franchise, And if that offers them some
type of leeway, if that offers them a time frame
where they can say, okay, like let's take those two
or three steps back forward so we can actually build
something more sustainable, something more fitting. I don't really know
what this description is that fits around book at to
a greater extent, then we can do that. But again,
like I I agree, would you, We don't know what
the hell they're trying to do. We don't really know
what the direction is. Those are all very very fair points, and.
Speaker 1: Even you know, you frame it as you know, taking
a step back and building something sustainable, like I guess
you're just banking on okay, the number ten pick oh
se Godar Ryan Dunn, like that's your developmental projects. And
then like these sort of ends of the first round
bites at the apple that you'll have in the coming year,
because the whole taking a step back just rings so
hollow when you don't control your own draft picks, right,
And that's the situation they're in until twenty thirty two.
So I understand that Kevin Durant trade was never gonna
solve that, and I think Suns fans it seems like
just wanted Kevin Durant off the team, which is fair
like he seems he's one of the best basketball players
of all time and also just seems like a killjoy.
Just wherever he goes. It feels like the vibes just
get worse that I don't know him personally, but that's
just how it seems from afar, so I get that impetus.
I just really feel like they're like and even here, it's, well,
how do you trust yourself to develop the number ten
pick if you're still trying to make immediate noise in
the West, like I don't. I guess I'd feel better
about maybe any trade if you sat here and told
me the Suns are willing to kind of you remember that
Nets team, like after the Kevin Garnett trade, that whole
thing they kind of had to rebuild without their own picks,
and they just they were resigned. They had to be
bad without having the payoff for a while. I don't
think this unseam is gonna do that. And I also
just if the plan is we're hoping that Jalen Green
just establishes himself and that someone we could move later on,
I think the context of this team makes it a
little harder to bank on him increase. Now, Devin Booker
is immediately the best offensive player he's ever played alongside,
and that's with all due respect Alprin Shangun. So maybe
that opens things up for Jalen Green, But it's just
I don't understand anything. But to your point, the alternative,
aside from waiting, which I think is the big cardinals
in here, I think they just should have waited where
you're just running it back with Kevin Durant and then
he might leave in free agency for nothing to summer.
I recognize that you couldn't do that either. I just
feel like they found a way to make an unwinnable
situation even more unwinnable, which is honestly impressive.
Speaker 2: Oh so you think they're in a worse situation up
right now?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think I don't think they've improved their situation.
Aside from oh, Kevin Durant, if the vibes were off,
now that's gone, I don't think that they've improved. Like,
do you think they're a better basketball team next season?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no. I was asking you because I
wasn't sured like what you're trying to argue there on
that front.
Speaker 1: I guess it's the circuitest way of me getting to
a point of saying I don't because we don't understand
the plan. I don't think they're any better off right
after this trade. Like long term, I think you would
have to believe, okay, that number ten pick is gonna
do something, because even Dylan Brooks is like, he's got
two years left on his deal. But you juxtaposed that
against what else did you want? I'm referring to myself
with the third person, what else you want them to do? Dan?
And if these are the best offers out there? And
so I'm really clinging to the idea that they probably
should have waited. But I think there's just the way
that this the way that even if we remove the
veil of they had all these other options. The way
that they went about having little to no leverage makes
me feel even worse about what they're gonna do, Like
after this transaction, that's probably the best way to not
show it.
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair, I think for me, I just
can't sit here and say are they better or not
because I don't I don't think they're done. I don't
think like, if they make this the primary move of
the season, then there's really no other movement within the
roster outside of making that.
Speaker 1: Draft pick, maybe Duck getting the second Abril.
Speaker 2: Doucking this saying if that, if like, if that's the case,
oh boy, then we can talk about it. But I
kind of consider that they're in the middle of trying
to make a cake, not a good cake. We all
know it's going to be pretty shitty. But like, I
just I can't imagine that this current iteration is what
they're looking for. That's also why in the piece that
I wrote at Yahoo, I was like open to the
idea of them pivoting off Jale Green because I wouldn't
be surprised if that was the thing. Like NBA off seasons,
as we know, can get very very weird and very quickly.
Sometimes a situation just opens up and there you go.
You can find it. Some team needs a shooting guard,
they need someone with upside. Whoever, Boom, there's your guy,
and they might be able to get something for him.
I just thought they opened themselves up to potentially gaining
more future flexibility than they could have had with the brand.
That's and honestly, that's all I was expecting, really from
from their point of view, because I did not think
that Durrand would fetch like a wild hall.
Speaker 1: No, I was with you on the hall the level
of hall that he was going to fetch. I think
what would signal to me that maybe they are going
about this the right way? Is okay? Do they then
turn around and trade? You know, we talked a lot
about Jail and Green, like you probably get first round
pick for Dylan Brooks at least, and so if we
saw something like that, and I guess I'm also having
trouble in visioning, Okay, what's the team that's gonna come
and talk themselves in to Jalen Green, Like, what is
the trade out there that would make sense for everyone
involved in either position Phoenix to be more flexible, to
get more draft equity, or just have someone who's a
better fit for the roster. So I recognize that Brian
Gregory and co. Are in an incredibly tough situation. I
just don't think they made it any easier around themselves.
And to this point, as you said, there's more offseason
left to go, I don't have confidence that they're gonna
make the right calls. And I think it's also a
lot of the stuff you're laying out is predicated on Okay,
Jalen Green having value or other players. When you're talking
about other moves, Okay, can you get something for Royce O'Neil.
You had Grace and Allen When I mentioned his name
on one of our other podcasts the other day, you
damn near fainted. So it's just I'm very curious to
see what other moves they are actually capable of pulling
off with what's left in place, because this is why
it's so disheartening. Before we move on to the rockets,
Kevin Durant, that was your last bullet of just like
this is gonna be the player, the vehicle through which
that we are able to bring back assets and materially
materially change our course, our direction. And I guess you
were always kind of consigned to, Oh, it's gonna be underwhelming.
This just somehow feel I really thought that they would
have gotten like I guess, I didn't think they were
gonna have to take back any deals I envisioned as
being a net negative while only getting one first round pick.
I guess that's where I'm coming from me where it's
because I view Jalen Greens as is it. Yes, he's young,
could he get better, Sure, But I don't view that
contract at thirty plus million dollars a year and then also,
by the way, with very little upside because if it
all works out, guess what, he's gonna be a free
agent in two years anyway and just get more expensive.
I guess that's what I'm struggling to wrap my head
around here the most, And.
Speaker 2: That is totally fair. I actually looked at his contract
as being a positive in the sense that if he
didn't pan out, okay, you can actually get out of
it pretty soon right at the worst, that that's a
three year contract that maximized and presumably you can flip
him in here too or whatever. Like, He's not at
a level financially speaking where I'm super against or very
hardcore think that he's like the most overpaid player in
the league. Like, yeah, is he overpaid for what he's
done so far? Yes, I do concede that, But the
cab is also climbing a fair bit. He's still young.
I do anticipate him getting better because if there's one
thing I do think is true about him is that
he works freaking hard. He's been in a system that
doesn't really had had a lot of spacing, and where
offense has been more of an afterthought. It's always been
like the defensive focus. I would just like to see
him somewhere else because I do think there could be
something there. If there isn't, yeah, it's gonna suck pretty bad.
But I just had no expectation of Phoenix solving damn
or anything this summer. Anyway. I do honestly think that
if the.
Speaker 1: Subsi of success, you hit it right, you hit it
out right on the head.
Speaker 2: But I do think overall, like the Suns feel inevitable
in the sense that this is going to blow up
in their face, regardless of what they basically got back
for Durant. I think the big chips book, but like
they're not gonna flip him. He doesn't want to get
flipped like he wants to stay. They're like, oh yeah, cool,
you're You're the hard and soul of the team. Would
want to keep you. But like he's the guy, Like
he's the bullet you were referring to. Honestly, he's the
last bullet. It's just a bullet. They're not going to
pull the trigger on at any given point and until
they get smarter and realize that might be it. Yeah,
Like the best thing you could do is what I
said before, Take a step back and cross your fingers,
close your eyes, and hope for the best.
Speaker 1: I do think, I mean, maybe we should question question
Devin Booker's own decision making if he wants to He
does clearly want to be in Phoenix, which I like,
partly admire, mostly admire and think is really cool. And
I'm sort of like, if you're looking around book like,
what is the future here that you say?
Speaker 2: I will say. I will say this, having spent some
time in Phoenix a couple of years ago, that's a
nice place. That's a really nice place. Like if you
just look at it from a geographical perspective and the
weather and like, oh, I I mean I understand that
perspective if he's like, you know what if my focus
is getting paid, and you know, I'll make Tmusa and
I can win gold medals here and there. I don't
need to win a championship. I can stay in this
gorgeous weather and in this city. Yeah, I look more powered.
Speaker 1: To him on the rockets front. I think this is
just like, this is like a perfect trade for that. Like,
I don't know what I would quibble over. Okay, you
gave up the number ten pick, but you didn't have
room for the number ten pick in your rotation anyway,
and it amounts to a three for one. But I
think what I would feel most done because Kevin Durant
comes in replaces Yo, not everything Jalen Green does, just
because like he's going to be a little bit shift
deer on the ball than Katie, especially with Katie getting
up there. But you got someone who's a more reliable
scorer and he doesn't need to monopolize the ball. I
guess the I think the most uneasy aspect of this
would be, all right, you gave up Dylan Brooks, who
was a pretty important, like pretty big part of your team.
But then it's all right, well we just have Tari's
in and Cam Whitmore and Am I mean Am and
Tom's and Eathen specifically, where it's like the defense won't
suffer at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, I'm so glad you just said Cam Whitmore.
I'm so high on that dude. And I think for them,
you know, I saw someone mention like, oh, who are
the rockets gonna started shooting guard? He's right there, guy
like that. I don't even think the drop off from
Jalen Green to Cam Whitmore is is necessarily a negative,
Like they just opening up minutes for him too. That's
a fantastic situation to be in. I presume that they're
going to decline the team option on Fred and then
sign him to a longer term deal at less money
per year, So see what happens there. But if it's
Fred and it's with More and then it's the all
the whatever combination, I guess it's Thompson and kd at
the at the fours or at the forwards, and then
shan Gun at center. That's a pretty potent starting lineup.
And then you still have Tari and Reach Shepherd Jabbari. God,
there's just no downside to this trait for their perspective.
Speaker 1: No, there's either's there's legitimately none, it's yeah. They their
biggest problem was shooting and half court offense in general.
Kevin Ranches comes in and does if he if he
isn't the antacdote to all of that. He addresses a
lot of it, and I think my biggest question about
their offense now, But this could also just be a
bet on the continued development of Aman Thompson of Alprin Shangoun.
My guy reads Shepherd like that's someone who like do
minutes open up for him a little bit, like you
don't have Jentleen Green there anymore, so like you're kind
of like you haven't necessarily increased your offensive depth with
this trade. You've gotten an upgrade and now it's well,
now we need to explore some of these other options.
So there it feels very close to zero risk. You
would have to bet that like Jalen Green's going to
turn into a perennial NBA player to kind of or
like number ten they the Sun's draft, like the next
Giannis attend to Kumbo or somebody. But just giving the
situation the rotation as it was doing three for one
almost does Houston a service because it allows you. Okay,
now we need to see what we have in cam
with more more Read Shepherd. I do think you probably
could look at this team just because Kevin Ran is
not that type of playmaker. And that was sort of
an issue last year was do they still kind of
need that player or again that brings that And I'm
saying this with a straight face too, like is it
just Read Shepherd time? Like just with Jalen Green out
the door, you should be able to find more minutes
for Read Shepherd. And so you believe you invested a
number three picking him. If you believe him, maybe I'll
have a strong summer league. If you believe in him.
This is someone who could play minutes for you. And
then it's all of a sudden, Okay, his job gets
a lot easier, the space better. You have the ultimate
safety valve and Kevin Durant on top of having Van
Fleet another year of progression from Aman Thompson, Shangun, even
Jabari Smith Junior. And I think this is for all
the you know, faults and foibles or curiosities of KD.
He is one of the single most scalable superstars in
everyday history where you put him on a team and
even if the vibes are off, even if you feel
like they're not tapping into their full potential, it's just
going to work. And by the way, like his rim
protection numbers the past couple of years have been insane,
and so it's just like, did this team is okay?
Their perimeter defense maybe gets a little iffier without Dylan
Brooks there, but it's just they have so many different
fun lineup structures they can run out now, and just
most of their lineups are gonna be super huge, Like
if you're starting Shanggoon kd Aman Thompson, and then you
have what to choose from there, Is it gonna be
tar Esan, Is it gonna be Jabari Smith Junior? You
have the Steven Adam lineups that can come in, Like
playing two centers now even gets a lot more palatable
because of what KD can do on offense. There's just
so much more lineup flexibility with this team, and they're
you know, they kind of hovered around the fringes of
contention last year, but I think that in the immediate
there's probably a longer term discussion to be had, like
Durant pushes them to me, like very close, if not
inside the inner circle of title contenders for next season.
Speaker 2: Pending availability. Yes, I agree, because I do think that's
a factor. And he's getting older, and when you're older
at least thirty six forty seven, and he's going to be,
there are going to be some durability questions that just
pops up here and there. This isn't to talk the
trade down from their perspective. I still think, yeah, when
this is what you relinquish, you pull the trigger immediately,
of course you do. But I do think we need
to like safeguard ourselves a little bit. You know how
outside of last season when he played seventy plus, how
many seventy plus seasons has he had since returning from
the kill? His tier was that? Is that the one?
Speaker 1: Did you even have a seventy plus season? Oh? Yeah,
he did in twenty three, twenty five. I mean he did,
to his credit, he did sixty two last year and
then had that ankle injury towards the end.
Speaker 2: So oh that's fair, that counts almost okay, But like
I just that's something like I'm just putting it in
the back of my mind a little bit and and
perhaps look with with Thompson there, with Easton there, with
Jabari there, perhaps the plan isn't to play him damn
near forty seven minutes per game, like who knows perhaps
that this is the year where he plays like forty.
Speaker 1: That you know that is the other thing too, It's
just like the past two seasons. So thirty six and
a half minutes last year, the thirty seven point two
in the season before that, that's a lot of just
where for someone who admittedly like and this could be
also a concern for Houston to where it's just he's
not the same player when it comes to attacking with
the ball or if he has to face double teams.
And that's that's not an insult. He's going to be
thirty seven and is still probably one of he would
have made All NBA last year had he never gotten injured.
That's but you got a star, like kudos to the Rockets.
It's like, yeah, I'm with you. The availability is certainly
a factor. And then I'm just is do you have
any questions about Okay, well, how high does he actually
elevate the ceiling on their half court offense? Given the
player he is now?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I'm not I'm not particularly
worried about that aspect of what I'm more worried about
is what you actually outlined earlier. Where he goes people
tend to get bummed out. I wonder if there is
like a vibes thing or something that, Like, that's something
I question more so than oh, what's this effect going
to be on the half court situation? Like it's Kevin
freaking'd rent. He'll be fine, he can.
Speaker 1: Well be enough was more so not well, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Get that, but like given his age and given his output,
I mean, this dude can take every possible shot and
you'd feel like, oh, yeah, that's a good shot, right,
like pull up threes, spot up threes, snaking the pig roll,
and like getting into the HESSI like driving, getting to
the foule line, Like there's a single offensive area on
the floor where I'm like, no, KD, that's a bad shot.
So like I feel as though pretty safe in just
bringing him in there. It's the teammates around him, Like
can Shingoon become a better three point shooter? I think
it becomes even more crucial now, honestly.
Speaker 1: Think that they should do you think they should trade
him and then draft Malwatch just to ensure that they
have that floor spacing element at the five.
Speaker 2: You suck.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I had to get that one in there.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna I'm gonna put a pin
in that because if my Lauch starts hitting like two
threes a game in a couple of years time, I
am going to come right back and just yell at
you for five points.
Speaker 1: We need to have a conversation though, about what is
the volume threshold you need to hit to be considered
in actual like a floor spacing ad not as just
because what you're talking about is based at the position. Okay,
it's more valuable, but it's just basically cool. Josh Giddy
just went three to five from three for eight consecutive games.
Defenses don't care.
Speaker 2: Right, No, I let's let's actually, oh but gotch this podcast,
But let's let's let's take it put discussion on that
at some point.
Speaker 1: Right, I do you the vibes thing. I totally agree
with the only, the only saving grace, But I think
you could argue, Okay, well then what really doesn't didn't
Golden State in theory have a really strong locker room
I just refuse to believe that any team with Steven
Adams on it can actually have a vibes killer because
he's just like the panacea to all that. And I
firmly believe they knew Kevin Durant was coming and that's
why he got his extension as quickly as he the
king of never hitting free agency, Steven Adams is also
the single most valuable player when it comes to integrating
Kevin Durant into the Rockets culture.
Speaker 2: But to answer your question, no, I'm not really worried
about him in the half court. Like I do think
there are a lot of young players on this team,
and I I wouldn't hate if some are rerouted, Like
I know you're higher on Jabari Smith juniors than I am.
Speaker 1: Well, we need to have that discussion, by the way,
because there's the I want to ask you about the
Kevin Durant thing. But like Kevin Durant extension eligible, Jabari
Smith and Tari E. C Easan extension eligible, Cam Wittmore
and Amen Thompson are going to be coming up, like
what is you know you're mentioning move. I'm not saying
they have to. I want to want to make this
clear Rock stands. They don't have to do anything. What
they could do is just roll into the season like
this and maybe win the fucking title. That's what could
actually happen. But like, this is something to put up.
It was something to put a pin in before you
had this. But Kevin Durant, if he signs the max,
so two years between one twenty two and one twenty
four million, depending on when he signs it, that's like
two Jalen Greens per year. It's close to it. It's
a little bit less than two Jalen Greens. I'm very
I think, and I do think the name you mentioned
was spot on. Jabari Smith kind of felt like, well,
look at what they did with Shang Gun and Adams.
They have Aman Thompson. Eathan's a little bit more plug
and play.
Speaker 2: It's like a lot more plug and play, if you
ask me, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Fair offensively, definitely just more just more plug and play
because he doesn't need any on ball usage basically, so
you're right a.
Speaker 2: Long defensively, he just causes havoc. I I freaking.
Speaker 1: I loved I think Jabari Smith Junior is probably an
underrated defender, But I can't argue with you but doesn't
Jabari Smith Junior kind of still feels like the odd
man out here. And that's not to say they need
to rush to move him. It's you could let him
hit restricted free agency, see what the market says. But yeah,
I'm just I like, I'm sorry. I'm reading a breaking
news tweet from Sham's Dallas Paris assistant Sean Sweeney has
agreed on a deal to become the associate head coach
of the Spurs. I was like, Yeah, the Spurs already
hired another head coach, so that's why I was distracted
during that little incoherent ramble. But yeah, I don't know
what to make of just I think you can go
into the season like this would be absolutely fine. I
just long term, I'm very curious to see who step
rates themselves from whom and who becomes the priority.
Speaker 2: It's a good question, what do you think right now
is their biggest position of weakness.
Speaker 1: I still think that they need a floor general. Yeah,
so like a guard like a Kobe not even a
co I think, honestly, because you have to rank Kobe
White would be fine here and make that clear, but
I think you need more of like someone who's going
up against the set defense and has that pass first
mindset where that's not that.
Speaker 2: That salary fits almost like a tea.
Speaker 1: But is Kobe White that he's more of a score
first guard. I think they need someone who's going to
manage the game for everybody else a little bit better,
Maybe like a Josh Giddy. I'm just kidding, just kidding.
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, but like I wouldn't hate ex along
the trade market for Javari and like seeing what's out
there and just telling teams like we're looking for someone
to handle the ball, someone to make decisions.
Speaker 1: I have a name. I don't know if he's the
perfect one, but it would fit the ethos. Would this
Could this still be a Derek White team?
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting?
Speaker 1: Or is he not enough of a He's more of
a like connector passer. But I guess if you look
at it and say, well, you have Shangoon, you have
Fred van Fleet, right, maybe not giving up better Derek
White when it comes so the decision making, yes, But
if it's coming to you need to break down a
set defense. I don't know what to think of what
we've kind of already seen what Derek White might look
like outside the confines of Boston spacing. I think that's
a big element to Derek White's play making. But there's
also just in terms of just off the catch and
making like the quicker decisions. I'd trust him more. That's
why I said, I don't know if that would be
the right name. It would really be an interesting name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to because I would want someone who
can also like call their own number a little bit.
Speaker 1: There's a Ti Jerome free agent.
Speaker 2: Ty Jerome would be fun. I was actually thinking if
they could call up Memphis and Cole Anthony. But like
Cole Anthony, he's just he's too offensively not weird, but
like he's just he I actually think there's a good
player in there, but like it's only just half the
time where he plays the right way in a sense,
like he's just volatile.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's enough of just a table setter
for others. Right, Yeah, what about you mentioned how about
another Grizzly. What does it cost to get Scottie Pippen
Junior from Memphis?
Speaker 2: Oh that's nice. He's not a men deal of memory
serves right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's like he has two years left at
like the cheapest rate possible.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm betting they would ask a draft compensation.
Speaker 1: And hey, rumor has it that Houston has some.
Speaker 2: And that's that's not that's not a bad name. Actually
I like that. You know, we know he can stillitate.
Speaker 1: Oh he's got three years left on Holy I mean,
they'll probably do whoever has him. I'm assuming we'll do
the thing where you like, decline his team option and
he becomes to sport or No, is this not even
his first deal? I can't. Regardless, he's under contract for
another three years, completely team control at like under seven
million dollars total. That's insane.
Speaker 2: You know what, he's just pulling a dad because Scotty
went underpaid for the first what nine years of his
career as well.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, you know what, it doesn't this is not
his first that's right, because he spend time with the Lakers, remember, true. Yeah,
so you just have him completely under team control though,
for the next three years for like seven million bucks
maybe eight million bucks. I think you'd be okay. I'm
just trying to think of like any other names that
would be because I think that's probably what they need
and it doesn't need to be it doesn't need to
be on the level of Kobe White or LaMelo Ball
even a Derek White's Oh.
Speaker 2: I have something, I have something. Maybe I don't know
if he's interested in the return to Houston. He's a
free agent.
Speaker 1: Chris paul Ooh, and man, the way he played in
San Antonio last year is perfect where it's like he
dominated the ball when you needed him to, but he
shot it really well off the catch from three. Oh,
that's interesting.
Speaker 2: And I see so he and k D and James
Harden and Russell Westbrook have all like switched teams so
many times. I'm unsure, like Duran and CP have never
played together.
Speaker 1: Right, No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's that's I would like to see.
Speaker 1: That that you are.
Speaker 2: Then sure if I had seen it before, but regardless,
I want to see it again.
Speaker 1: Then at that point, though, like your offense is all
of a sudden very beholden to these two ancients by NBA,
by NBA standards, which would make me a little does
what about does does Malik Monk do enough for you
or not? No?
Speaker 2: I really really like Maligue Monk, and I think the
growth he saw as a playmaker over the past few
years has been tremendous, But I don't know if that's
something that carries with him outside of that specific system
an organization.
Speaker 1: Uh, that's fair. I'm just like trying to think of
like low to mid end names here, like nothing too crazy.
Speaker 2: They so Tias Jones played with KD last year in Phoenix.
Tias I think would kind of fit what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: At that point, I might be more interested. Yeah, as
a game manager for sure, him, Maybe even Trey Jones
if you don't care about the shooting limitations as much.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Rockets didn't exactly have great floor spacing
last year. I know they got KD now, but I mean,
why go down on shooting like you always want someone
who can choose?
Speaker 1: What about I mean you mentioned him and I sometimes
don't think he's enough of just like a playmaker. But
we saw him run a lot more picking rolls last year.
Iowed assume MoU, Yeah, I wouldn't hate that wouldn't be
a bad one.
Speaker 2: You can probably get both Cope and Io honestly, because
there's a contract situation because we talked about it.
Speaker 1: Then you just need all these guys getting paid soon.
I mean, yeah, what about they because they do have enough.
I know you're gonna say that Boston's not gonna look
to trade him because he's so cheap, like Peyton Prichard.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Boston's not gonna look to trade him, sir,
the right.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if they're going through two gap years,
you have to at least listen. Listen on Jayleen Brown,
but not Peyton Pritchard. That's your lot, that's your lot.
Speaker 2: But like the guy is earning less than five percent
of the salary cap, right, like, like he's such a
good contract and they're not Like I only trade if
I'm Boston. I'm only trading Peyton Pritchard if I'm hitting
like the big red reset button. And I don't think
they are.
Speaker 1: What about does he do enough? And I don't know
how much he costs in free agency? And then you
get hard captain assign and trade Malcolm Brogden, another guy
with injury concerns, though.
Speaker 2: Con like in terms of who he is as a player. Yes, immediately, Yes.
Speaker 1: I think I've decided it needs to be Scotti Pippen Jr.
I think he'd be.
Speaker 2: I think that's a perfectly reasonable name. Yeah, Dad was
a rocket too.
Speaker 1: The other I don't know if you have anything else
you want, I get too happy to talk about that.
The one other thing was I've kind of wondered though,
if Durant on his next team. I'm not saying he's
gonna accept like a two year, sixty million dollar deal
or something, but are we entirely convinced that, like, he's
not gonna go to the Rockets and sign a submax
extension just to make things a little They'll still have
to make some decisions on guys who are extension eligible
and whether to keep them, but could make it more
manageable for them. As you're looking at the Shane Gun
deals now kicking in, You're gonna have the Kevin Durant deal.
What are you paying Fred van Fleet next year? You
have Aman Thompson's gonna be extended. You have two other
guys who are extend eligible right now. And when you
look at the way that he it wasn't specifically the
Rockets because he had he actually had four teams on
his list, but the Knicks said no reportedly, but like
he kind of ensured that they didn't have to give
up a ton to get him, And so it does
feel like he's kind of thinking with the foresight in
mind of I still want to be somewhere that has
enough around me because I just spent the past couple,
like the past couple of years in Phoenix, on a
team that did not have enough around me because they
gave up so much to get me.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we have to be honest here, has
he earned enough throughout his career? We're only coming off
on half a billion in NBA contracts.
Speaker 1: He's made half a billion in NBA contracts.
Speaker 2: Four hundred and forty seven point eight million. We're coming
out on half a billion dollars. So you know what.
And our common mutual friend here, Brianza Pork has made
this point for years where he's basically said, at some
point the money just becomes so vast and so aggressive
in sheer volume that eventually you're going to see some
guy say, look, sixty or forty million or sixty million.
I don't give a flying fuck because I'm sitting there
with six hundred million in my back for the career.
Like or perhaps we're all wrong and he's like, give
me all the bread possible.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's something like, is he does he get
like the max in the first year, and then it's
like what it can drop by what forty year over year?
Is that the mac What is it now in the
new CBA like mac.
Speaker 2: Sh don't know the answer to that, but it can't
drop a substantial amount.
Speaker 1: Yes, so maybe it's something like that. But my prediction
would be the only reason I'm saying is I think
he ends up signing less than a MAX extension. I
think that's what ends up happening here.
Speaker 2: That'd be nice, though, I mean I always think that's
a good sign for older players to like make it
a little bit easier on their teams, because, like we've
talked about before, you know, the Dame contracts, the old
man contracts, they're just so so rough on teams, especially
when now that the aprins have been introduced. If KT
came to the Rockets and said, look, let's just let's
just get this extension over with, I'm willing to take
I don't know, the fun Max, something along those lines,
that's that's how you do it, and that.
Speaker 1: Would I think that? Would you think he's gonna get
the max?
Speaker 2: I I don't think he'll say the fun max.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well the fun max would be what
would that end up being So if I said, do
you think he's gonna get over fifty as an average
annual value, yeah, my bold prediction would be that he
gets fifty one or lower, just to give myself a
little wiggle room over fifty. But you're right, it's like
if he just went and yet two years and one
hundred and this is not like all the money he
made off the court. But I look, it's a free market.
The players should make is well, I guess it's not
a free market because the salary cap. But like, if
they're gonna give him the max, he should absolutely do it.
But if you're Houston, like, by the way, if he
decided this is also a price your Okpenn Because we
know how Kevin Durant seems to like like grade on
the people or on his teams or he gets tired
of them. This is like kind of an opportunity cost
that if he did leave after a season, you're like,
all right, well we tried. It was not the end
of the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you didn't. Here's the thing. You can
make a realistic case that even if things just blow
up mid season and he only spends half a year,
you're looking at what you relinquished and you went worth
a gamble, that's fine. I mean, yeah, Okay, the tenth
pick that's gonna sting a little bit, especially if it's
Colin Maury Boyce because I fucking love that dude. But
outside of that, yeah, there's no downside to this.
Speaker 1: I think the highest praise I could give it from
my end is I always expected that if Houston or
another team traded for Kevin Durant, I would like it
for that team based off what they had to give up.
I liked it even more than I expected from Houston's
perspective than I would have predicted. I would have assumed
there was either more first round picks in there, or
I honestly thought, just because he's not that he's superfluous,
but that we've talked about him now, they might have
to make a decision on him. I thought it would
be like Jabari Smith junior number ten and salary, and
because you know how I feel about Jabari, that would
have just given me. I still would have been okay
with it, I think for Houston. But they didn't even
have to do that. And you get off of what
I think was Even if you don't think Jalen Green's
a bad contract. He was clearly, of all the contracts
on the books, the worst contract for Houston. So you
got off the toughest to move of that and just
man to get back to the basketball like Durant and Shngoon,
the stuff you could do with that, Durant and I'm
and Thompson, the interplay between those two, and I'm gonna
I'm calling the prediction now too. I firmly believe that
this trade is gonna end up unless they go out
and make another move. I think this opens up the
runway for Rechepherd to do some damage next year.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling you didn't on that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have anything else on this trade?
Speaker 2: No? I think we're good.
Speaker 1: Can you tell everyone where they can find you and
all the fantastic work that you do.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can find me over at Yahoo Sports, over
at Forbes, and I have a podcast called the MP
podcast that you might be listening to right now, depending
on which you're listening to and inplications Danish.
Speaker 1: You can baring you ching out in the question until
next time and as always with you to do with
the shout out for the one, the only, the future
Championship winning floor General of the Houston Rockets, mister Frank
pelo kea