WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:06.080 It's Tuesday. You know what that means. It's time for 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:10.119 ignition with the aw fan Hub podcast team. This is 3 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:15.119 Kelson and I've got Barry, Shane and Sutton here with 4 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:18.320 us tonight, and guys, I'm gonna ask you a couple 5 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:22.480 of questions. Let's see what your opinion is on this. 6 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:29.480 The first question is in the men's division right now, like, 7 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.479 based on what's been going on maybe in the last 8 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:39.280 month or two, named three men who are over right now, 9 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:44.600 I mean just over in AW. Shane, I'm gonna go 10 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:45.159 to you first. 11 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:54.520 Well, not John Moxley, I mean, I mean, like the 12 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.119 real question is how over? I mean, Michael, we are 13 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.320 we talking like to the moon? Are we talking like hockey? 14 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.480 Well, I'm talking about let's just say, when they come out, 15 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:09.599 the fans respond to them. You feel like they're you 16 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.519 personally feel like the fans are responding to them. You 17 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:16.439 personally feel like when they come out, they're a benefit 18 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:21.519 for TV for example. Okay, No, it's something you feel 19 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:23.760 like other people are gonna want to see them. 20 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.319 Well, there are guys in AW that are permanently over 21 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.920 no matter whether they're well, that's fine too, Okay, I'll 22 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:34.239 entertain this all right. First of all, Darby Allen, Darby 23 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:37.040 Allen is permanently over, no matter what happens. He's permanently over, 24 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.120 not just because this thing. But that's just the reception 25 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.439 that I mean, like the dude. I'm not going to 26 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.120 talk about conspiracy or his past, but the dude dodged 27 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:47.439 some very hefty bullets in terms of things outside of 28 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.400 wrestling to make him relevant in wrestling. So Darby Allen 29 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:52.359 won Kenny Omega. That's a that's a go to. He's 30 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.959 always going to be over. He's always going to be 31 00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:01.519 over for aw audiences. One yeah, and we're struggling. I've 32 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.079 been to several a W shows last year. It doesn't 33 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.280 matter who is performed a W doesn't matter who's performing 34 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:09.319 at any given period of time. It could be women 35 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:11.400 in the ring and someone's gonna go lose House and 36 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.240 everyone's gonna stop and go Swerve's House. 37 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:18.000 Perfect. I'm gonna go to Barry, Arry, what are your three? 38 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.120 And you agree with you even you know what what's 39 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:23.520 out and agree with Shane if you want. 40 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:26.960 So we're gonna say over, just over, not baby faces, 41 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:27.879 like just. 42 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:30.240 Not at all, not babyfaces. 43 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:36.240 Just over for me. It would be Swerve, MJF and Osprey. 44 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:41.560 Those three they're always they're over every well Will especially 45 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:45.479 But to Shane's point, Swerves rise last year just cemented 46 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.520 him as a top guy. The reactions he gets every 47 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:52.000 time I hear somebody was at a basketball game and 48 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.520 somebody has randomly yelled at and people responded, So like, 49 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.560 that's how I know the guy's over Will just because 50 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.919 he's well Osprey, everybody like his music hits elevation or 51 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.560 elevated hits, people go lose their mind. And then MJFF 52 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.360 same thing. His music hits, everybody knows what's coming and 53 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.719 that's uh, that's that's kind of the qualifiers for top 54 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.199 top top people for me. 55 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:20.560 Fair enough, Sutton, let's go to you, Osprey, Omega and 56 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:21.919 at Darby. 57 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.800 Okay, great, all right, now, I'm not gonna get my 58 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:31.439 opinion on this. I'm going to wooz out, but I 59 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.680 want to ask the same question. But now this is 60 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.319 to be a little bit more difficult, I think. But 61 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:42.840 let's talk about the women's division. Three women that are 62 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.800 over right now, Shane will go to you. 63 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:53.960 Uh Christad obvious reasons, Mercedes Monet, and I'll save the 64 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.479 best I'll save the best for last Tony Storm. Tony 65 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:58.680 Storm doesn't even have to be on television to be over. 66 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:03.000 She could be giving some fai contrivable bullshit article to 67 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.639 some dirt sheet and people are going to treat it 68 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.199 like it. She's crapping gold, which. 69 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:14.800 Is fantastic, Like the visual, one of the. 70 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.680 Most interesting things that's happening in professional wrestling today. That's 71 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:20.040 spanning all promotions. 72 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:25.199 But yeah, I mean even w w E fans love 73 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:26.959 Tony Storm. 74 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.519 Yeah they should have. They should have loved her more 75 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:31.439 when she was on n x T. 76 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.879 Yeah, but hey, you know, sometimes you need changed to 77 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:37.120 really do better. 78 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.000 Opportunity and environment, Yeah right. 79 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.160 Who are your three women? 80 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:51.879 Willow our music hits, everybody go, everybody pops, right. I 81 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:55.560 would put Tony on there too. Different, It's it's hard 82 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.319 to explain how she's over. It's more different than any 83 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:00.680 other performer that's been over, because every everybody is more 84 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.279 interested in seeing what her next character work is going 85 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:05.480 to be than necessarily she's going to come out and 86 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:08.040 put a banger of a match. She's just she's taken 87 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.519 the performance of being a p wrestler in just a 88 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.959 different era that are a different way that very few, 89 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:17.639 if anybody, has ever ever touched on before, which is 90 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.639 why she's so fascinating. And then I think after the 91 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.319 two of them, there's a layer of a bunch of 92 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:28.519 other folks. But I might put Mercedes. I might put 93 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:29.839 Mercedes in there as well. 94 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.959 Okay, that's fair enough. Let's go to you and then 95 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:37.120 we'll get to a point. I have a point to 96 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.360 all this. Let's get the sun and get his. 97 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:48.120 Three Julie Hart, Chris Dat Lennar and uh chetam that one. 98 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:48.480 Yeah. 99 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:51.560 Every time, no matter what, those three come out, they're 100 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:52.160 always over. 101 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:57.079 Okay, that's fair enough. Let me get to my point here, 102 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:01.439 and I have a few points here. The first one, 103 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.319 the first point is of all the men that were 104 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.480 mentioned as being over by you guys, how many of 105 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:14.360 them have championships right now? Answer? None? Zero. Keep that 106 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.759 in mind. Of all the men that people mentioned, you 107 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.160 guys mentioned just right now, how many of them are 108 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:24.800 over thirty five? I don't think any of them are. 109 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:30.399 You see where I'm going here. Kenny, I'm sorry, Kenny, Yeah, 110 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.839 but Kenny is Yeah, but Kenny's a little bit and 111 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.839 you know, I'm just say it. When you're talking, think 112 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.680 about it. Now, look at the women that you mentioned. 113 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.360 A couple of you mentioned Mercedes Monet. She's the only 114 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.519 one that was mentioned that has a belt right now. 115 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:51.519 And again there's none of those women that were mentioned 116 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.639 or over the age of thirty five. They're all young. 117 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:58.120 Some of them are not are under by Julia Harts 118 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:04.600 under twenty five going here. 119 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.800 She does. 120 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.800 No, I think you're right. I think Cheetah's thirty six. 121 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.439 Cheetahs thirty six. This is why we have Tonic. 122 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.319 Yeah, it blew my mind. 123 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.040 Yeah, I mean, but you can add me to sheer 124 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:26.399 account to that. Harley Harley Cameron is also over you know, 125 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:30.319 in my opinion, Uh again, none of these people have 126 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:35.120 belts except for Mercedes Monette and both the meds and 127 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:40.160 the women's division. And my point here is when you 128 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:46.120 look at Aw's booking, do you think that the fact 129 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:50.319 that the people Because I'm gonna be honest with you, 130 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.720 when I listened to the people that you named, I 131 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:58.120 really thought that those were great names that I think 132 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:02.519 would be representative of what other people would probably say 133 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.279 is to say as well, none of them have belts 134 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:10.240 except for Mercedes Monet, Kenny Omegas, where Strickland none. These 135 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.439 guys don't have belts. They're hardly a main event mode 136 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.720 right now. Do you think that the fact that so 137 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:23.160 many of these people that are over with the fans 138 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:32.480 are simply not being used as they should be. I mean, 139 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.039 is that a weakness in Tony Kahin's booking or is 140 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:38.600 it a strength? I don't know what do you guys think. 141 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.639 I don't think it's a weakness at all. It just 142 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.879 shows that you can put your best people and they 143 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:49.000 don't have to be involved in titles with titles to 144 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.559 be over. You don't have to have your most your 145 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:54.480 top talent always have a title, because if you do that, 146 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:57.159 what's the point then you have nobody else that everybody's 147 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:57.480 got to. 148 00:08:59.320 --> 00:08:59.679 Stride. 149 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:01.919 Ex are hard to try to get to a point 150 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:06.440 where they can compete with them, and right now they're not. 151 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.879 I mean, Kenny's just coming back from a long time off, 152 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:12.679 Julie's coming back from a long time I mean a 153 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:16.000 lot of the people we mentioned are either involved in 154 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.639 other things, like she's already ever around because I think 155 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.279 she's involved overseas. You know, most of them are either 156 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:26.360 involved in something else or have come back from a 157 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.519 long time gone. But they've come back and still in 158 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:31.039 the same place they were when they left. 159 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.960 I see where you're going Kelson, and I don't think 160 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:40.320 necessarily what you're getting at is wrong. I think part 161 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:45.480 of the challenge is nearly everybody we mentioned either has 162 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.840 been a title holder, and most of them have had 163 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:52.159 a major title. Recently. Tony Storm and Willa both had titles. 164 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.399 Tony had one of the longest runs ever. On the 165 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:58.440 men's side, everybody we mentioned had titles, one of them, 166 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.879 like from Jaff, the longest ever. The challenge that I see, 167 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.679 which is I think in line with your argument, is 168 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:11.039 there is no white hot babyface champion, either in the 169 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.480 women's or the men's division. And you look at what 170 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.440 WWE did with Cody. They built to that they've got 171 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.799 their white hot babyface champion, just like they did with Sina. 172 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:25.679 There's a real strength to have that hot babyface and 173 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.279 if they are not the champ, then they should be 174 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.039 pursuing the championship. So even though Cody took a year, 175 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.559 he was still the guy. And one of the challenges 176 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.399 with aw is there is no top babyface. The closest 177 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:42.519 I would say is well Osprey, but Tony has a habit. 178 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:46.159 Coming back to your also point Kelson of swinging his 179 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:50.320 booking from all babyfaces having to all heels having. And 180 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:53.799 so one of the weaknesses with AW has been once 181 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:56.840 Tony gives these guys their run as a babyface, the 182 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:00.279 what's next is very weak. We see it with Sanna 183 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.240 Garcia right now, we saw it with Private Party. Those 184 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.480 are the two most recent examples that the US sure 185 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.519 why he falls back to putting him back on the heels. 186 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.600 Not everybody can be over, but at some point they're 187 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.679 going to need to fix that because Swerve elevated himself 188 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.559 as a baby face, and I still don't think that 189 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.679 what's next for him was a strong enough program. And 190 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.399 he's a fascinating character as well. 191 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.200 Arry, I want to expand on that thought. This is 192 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.120 an observational statement, but like in a lot of instances, 193 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.679 when these guys are dropping their titles, they're disappearing. It 194 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.360 feels like in a lot of cases, like Tony is 195 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.000 dropping belts to allow these guys going to go on vacation, 196 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.159 take R and R you know, or you know, get 197 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.279 surgeries that they have so desperately needed for for months 198 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.440 and months and months. That's not very that's not very 199 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.600 you know, Calcu. I mean in terms of storytelling, you're 200 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.200 planning six months out, and it seems that that seems 201 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.480 to be the case for TK. I've always said that 202 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.320 Tony's greatest strength and weakness is his long term storytelling 203 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.480 because he has a tendency to drag things into the 204 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.399 into the mud, you know, yeah, he can't pull the trigger. 205 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.519 I think Adam Page and CM Punk is a great 206 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.360 example of this. You know that seem they had their 207 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.840 match Adam Page dropped and then they were dropping the 208 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:22.279 belt onto mocks in Cleveland, like what the two weeks later? 209 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.120 Three weeks later, So because punk Punk was injured, I mean, like, 210 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.360 could we be a little more creative, intuitive, or or 211 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:32.480 at least a little more call better audibles in terms 212 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.519 of how we're managing these these stories. I don't think 213 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.720 in terms of his booking. You know, right now he's 214 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.639 on the upswing, but how for how much longer? You know? 215 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.480 That's definitely yeah. 216 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:46.639 I also. 217 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:53.159 Let me break in here, Barry just real quick, because 218 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.240 I want to change. Just said something that kind of 219 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.600 took me off guard. I'm startering over myself, I'm falling 220 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.399 over my tong like Mercedes Money on a Wednesday. Look, 221 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.960 you think that Tony Kahn's booking is on an upswing 222 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:07.480 right now? 223 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:12.039 In a manner of speaking, Yeah, I mean I think 224 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.480 the Death Death Riders thing is contrive I think that, Uh, 225 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.320 I don't. I think that in terms of like the 226 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.240 mid card, the mid card belts look more important than 227 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:23.799 the World Championships right now. I think that's the biggest issue. 228 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.600 I think if he wanted to be you know, I 229 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:30.399 think that he needs to redirect the Death Riders story 230 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.480 and put optics on the tag titles. Uh. He has 231 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.039 to put some trios together because now we hit like 232 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.639 I don't think, but I don't think it's in a 233 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.879 place that it was three months ago. 234 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:43.440 Yeah, I agree with you, Shane. I've always I think 235 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.519 this trend started last year too. The Continental Classic really 236 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.759 lays out so much of how their TV has to 237 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.639 work that Tony kind of falls into really really good programming. 238 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:55.600 And I think actually the last three months have been 239 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.600 some of the most solid dynamites and collisions. There's been 240 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.399 some problem and they're not everything's a home run, But 241 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:04.600 you look at the first three quarters of the year 242 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.000 compared to the last quarter, and it was far more 243 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.039 consistent and more in line with the types of stuff 244 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.679 we want to see. But I want to hit back 245 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.559 on something that I think Shane said too and sudden 246 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:18.519 you got on when people disappear. How many times have 247 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.559 we seen somebody want a title ballut and they're not 248 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:21.080 on TV? 249 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.440 Well, something I got a disagree with on that though, 250 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.679 with the injury thing, that's not in your control. Like, 251 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.960 for example, the only time that they did that and 252 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.559 they shouldn't have was with Brian Danielson. Everybody knew he 253 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.080 was hurt when he won the title. He didn't win 254 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.120 the title and the didnt get hurt. He was hurt 255 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.200 when he got the title put on him. And I 256 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.200 get why they wanted to do that, but that was 257 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.879 a mistake. You can't do that. But when you have 258 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:55.320 somebody get hurt when they're holding the title, dropping that 259 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.360 title and then moving on instead of doing what they 260 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.639 did with like thunder Rose, that happened to to set 261 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.120 it aside and they just kind of gave it to 262 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:06.879 Tony Storm. You can't you can't play for that. You 263 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:10.399 can't have a backup for that at all times. So 264 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:13.840 you know, if somebody like for for example, if tomorrow night, 265 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.960 Hobbes comes out and drops John on his head and 266 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.000 they have to give the title of Hobbes and it's 267 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.480 a it's a called audible. That's understandable. But you know, 268 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.480 I don't I don't know that you can really say 269 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:29.480 that's an issue that Tony has, because for the most 270 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.559 part he's done a halfway decent job with that. 271 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.399 I'm gonna have to kind of disagree with you there 272 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.919 and then I'll give you a case some point. One 273 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.799 of your favorite wrestlers is Chris stat Lander. G I'm 274 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.600 just gonna look, Tony kept that belt on Jade Cargill 275 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.720 are longer than she he needed to in order to, 276 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:53.799 you know, getting ready. 277 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.200 To say the same thing, and that's that that was 278 00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.799 the one thing I was just getting ready to point 279 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.000 that that was the one example of when it was 280 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.840 the worst thing that could have been done. But I 281 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.240 think since then Tony has learned a little bit about 282 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000 doesn't do a great job of us still, but he's 283 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.120 getting around to the point where he's like, for example, 284 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.360 with Julia Hart when she got hurt, he dropped the title. 285 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.519 He didn't wait for what he wanted to have happen 286 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.720 happen he put the title on Willow and now he 287 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.720 might come back to that, but he hasn't. But he's 288 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.480 starting to learn that a little bit better. So yeah, 289 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.600 I agree with you, Kelse, And I was just getting 290 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:34.600 ready to say the exact same thing as an example 291 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:36.039 when he did it so badly. 292 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.360 Look, here's the thing, No, here's the thing. I just 293 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:43.000 wanted to point this out. Looking at just the TBS Championship. 294 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.120 We've had Chris Statlander, Julia Hart, We've had Mercedes Monet, 295 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:54.720 We've had Jade Cargill, we've had Willow Nightingale as TBS champions. 296 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:02.399 The longest reigning TBS champion was Jade Cargill. The worst 297 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:07.000 TBS champion in my opinion, was Jade Cargill. It was 298 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.759 super arguing that want the way that they're handling it 299 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:16.039 now that it's very it's you know, Mercedes Monet has 300 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.000 held on to it. It doesn't look like she's going 301 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:20.599 to lose it anytime soon. But at least she's out 302 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:25.240 there having banger matches, not you know, she's traveling around 303 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.279 the world having matches, and she's having competitive matches instead 304 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:34.160 of glorified or not even glorified, just flat out squashes 305 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.440 like Jade Cargill was. I mean, it was a bad 306 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.279 championship when Jake Cargill had it. And it's nothing to 307 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.480 do with Jade Cargill as a wrestler. It's he has 308 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:44.839 to do everything to do with the booking. 309 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.000 I think some things too, is we're able to look 310 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.759 at stuff in hindsight in a way that really wasn't 311 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.319 available at that time. What AW had with Jade is 312 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.279 what I think everybody saw is this woman's going to 313 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.079 be a million bucks if they can justigure it out. 314 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.279 How are they going to make the money off that? 315 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.039 But you look at her and she is marketing one 316 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.480 on one for the prototype of just Glamour Incarnate. Like 317 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:15.519 she's strong, she's pretty, she's athletic, she's she's not terrible 318 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.839 on the mic, she's not great, you know. But Tony 319 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.119 tried the WWE approach of building this and building the 320 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.960 hype and all that, and that works if you have 321 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.519 the other machine around it, and that's not what AW 322 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:30.480 was at the time, and they don't have that. That 323 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.160 works for WWE because they're really freaking good at it. 324 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.599 They've been doing it for decades. They're marketing. They think 325 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.920 the way they approach stuff is just it's not from 326 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.599 a pro wrestling standpoint, it's from a media marketing standpoint, 327 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.319 and that's something people like overlook like WWE is almost 328 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.039 unique to pro wrestling the way they operate now, and 329 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.319 you almost shouldn't compare them to anybody else. But that's 330 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.000 why I had it for too long, you know, And 331 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.640 it was a mistake in retrospect, But at the time, 332 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:01.839 understand what they were trying to do with her, and 333 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.440 it's what I think anybody in that position would have 334 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.400 tried to do with her. But I think people who 335 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.319 get hurt with the belts is pretty rare in an outlier, 336 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.279 and it's a real tricky situation and book out of 337 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:14.880 But I think all of you guys are right as Tony. 338 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.599 When somebody gets hurt in an angle, they just kind 339 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.440 of sets that person aside who's not hurt, and they flounder, 340 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.160 and then when the person comes back, they pick it 341 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.000 up again. And he needs to get better at pivoting 342 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.279 away from that. When there's an injury, you just you 343 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.759 need to go in a different direction. You can't come 344 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.079 back to that booking. It hurts too many performers, and 345 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:34.640 it hurts the storytelling. 346 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.519 Should want to bring this home for us, Buddy. 347 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.599 I mean, by definition, WWE is a soap opera with athletes. 348 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:49.240 I mean, like, I'm sorry, since twenty sixteen, the only 349 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.240 wrestling program running out of ww media that by definition 350 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.720 is a wrestling promotion is NXT And I hate to 351 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.359 be that guy. It is what it is. That And 352 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.400 again you made the comment that they built the machine 353 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.440 around it. They figured they had they had decades to 354 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.680 test the waters. Yeah, they know exactly what they're selling 355 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:12.480 and who they're selling it to, which is why it's 356 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.240 kind of a revolving door. I mean, like, uh, what 357 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.559 what happened to the mystery and professional wrestling? That's why 358 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.920 we flocked to AW to kind of encapsulize that nostalgia, 359 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.400 that nostalgia drug from the wrestling that we grew up with. 360 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.119 And we said, hey, you know, it was the mystique 361 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.759 and and the surprise and the and the mystery that 362 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.960 that sucked us into it. You know, we're not getting 363 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:32.960 a lot of that from w w E. 364 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.319 Now. 365 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.839 It stagnates with AW. That's the problem. And I and 366 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.640 Barry I agree with you completely, Like Tony Kahn needs 367 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.000 to he needs to put a put put his foot 368 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:44.799 down on himself. Hey man, I need to stop this. 369 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.400 I need to hop on the next bandwagon and and 370 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.839 revisit this, you know, in a manner that's you know, 371 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.759 respectful to the people that are working in the back, 372 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:54.799 instead of front running someone that's been sitting for seven 373 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:56.440 months in spite of the fact that they're some of 374 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:58.359 the best wrestlers on earth. That's not how it's ever 375 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:03.200 worked anywhere else. So I mean praying Boston prayers for 376 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:03.640 t Case. 377 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.799 I want to see him. Just do a hard push 378 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.119 for somebody too, Like just pick a guy and book 379 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.759 him to the moon, and you've got enough people. People 380 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.039 are ready for that. And I'm not talking like an 381 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:17.599 Osprey or anybody like that. But like Fletcher's right there, man, 382 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.279 you can book him to the moon. Hobbs is right there. Like, 383 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.559 give them Hobbs more mic time. You can push him 384 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:25.720 in the mood takesh It is already doing it. But 385 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.720 so much of what he's doing is away from aw 386 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.920 on some of the international tours that we don't get 387 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.880 to see at firsthand. Clearly he doesn't speak English as much. 388 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:35.359 But like the. 389 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.559 Fans love him, push him to the moon, Like you 390 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.759 have the people pick one this year and just make 391 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.240 him the guy like you did with Swerve last year. 392 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:45.240 You know how to do it. You did it with 393 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:50.880 swer Who's next, Just pick the guy and push him. 394 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.039 Go ahead, Jane. 395 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:54.359 They did it with m Jeff as well. They figured 396 00:21:54.359 --> 00:22:00.519 out they figured out that humanizing connection to Mjab's persona, 397 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.880 and he milked the crap out of it. And he 398 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.920 even pivoted well when Adam Cole injured himself, but then 399 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.000 to rip the belt off of him the way they 400 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.839 did it with Samoa Drow and just drop the predictable 401 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.359