Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast, coming to you from
the hearts of Pendle, Witch Country in the northwest of England.
My name is Craig Bryant, author, investigator and collector of stories.
Join me as we take a journey into paranoral, UFO sightings, cryptozoology.
Speaker 3: And big cats.
Speaker 4: This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast. Okay, so hello and
welcome to episode forty nine of Paranormal Pendle, broadcasting to
the Paranormal UK Radio Network at PAUK radio dot com.
So my guest on this episode, and I'm absolutely delighted.
It's with great pleasure that I welcome Steve me or
Steve thanks for coming on.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Craig, thank you for having me or
you've got to help, no problem.
Speaker 4: I must admit I did a little bit of reading
up on you before before today, and I don't think
I've ever come across such an impressive buyo. I mean,
I really I really don't know where to start. I suppose, really,
how did you become interested in, you know, all the
sort of work that you've done over the years.
Speaker 3: I think I started at an early age. I've rather
had a collection of books. I think the first book
I picked out which I was really interested in was
Eric von Danikin's Charts and the Gods. You know, so
whomen can of friends at school reading pointings. I was
reading very von Danigan and then kind of got interested.
I depleted my father's books of course after that, because
I was interested in Brad Steiger and you were inside UFO,
and then I kind of took it from there really,
and that's how I got my interest.
Speaker 4: So have you had any UFO experiences yourself. Let's talk
about uf foals. First, have you had any.
Speaker 3: I mean prior to being an investigator, as through the
process of being an investive.
Speaker 4: Well prior really and then obviously through the process of sure.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, absolutely, I mean I came into the subject,
you could say, not only just through because of interest,
because I was as an experiencer since the age of
seven years of age. So yeah, I had a multitude
of various different types of phenomena. Most people will tell
you that those people have early experiences from the age
of seven or eight years of age, onwards. Usually physicis
out in the late teens. Mine didn't. I still continue.
I think I've attributed to that though through the power
you know, through investigation and research over the years. Sometimes
we take our work home with us, you know, it's
it's unavoidable sometimes, so yeah, I mean it's just it's
just as much as part of my life. Real they
have just come to live with it. Really, that's what
you have to do. Suppose.
Speaker 4: So when did you start sort of doing your investigations?
Then when when did that all begin?
Speaker 3: Which the investigation was in Liverpool in nineteen eighty three,
so I'm forty one years in that the subject that
was a UFO incident and the family had reported seeing
a UFO which I investigated, and it's sort of a
I did about maybe five six seven years in uphology
and then I went over to the power normal did
some years of researching that, and then I ended up
doing corporate investigations the large companies throughout the UK for
about sixteen years, and then I got more into our
psychological research experiments advance UAP working groups think tanks, and
of course that's kind of where we are now with
the projects that were involved in around the world.
Speaker 4: Can you can you expand on on any of the
UFO investigations that you did then, So, I mean one
of them that I found when I was looking online
was I think I think it's it's colloquially known as
the Murphy case.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, the winter Hill New Pill one. Now.
Speaker 4: I spoke to Nick McLaren last week obviously it Mick
does a lot of stuff around winter Hill and we
briefly sort of discussed that case because it's quite a
famous one from the area, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It is quite an interesting case. Yeah, I mean we
all started with and we see the telephone call wasn't
actually even in at the time. It was on court
on my answer phone and we're talking. It must have
been the nineteen the nineties, the late nineties maybe, and
it was for a gentleman who was called Murphy, who
was a Stuart Burphy. He was a cattle hand and
a farm of wins at Hill. He'd been working that
night he'd had an incident and contacted the police Atquinton
Police Station when he was closed as at a certain time,
you know, it's like six o'clock closer, and to get
truncated to the main eight seventy five number, which was Manchester,
Manchester Police headquarters. I had contacts with Manchester Police, so
anything like that did usually give my number on most occasions.
And he got over my number and he left a
message on my phone and his numbers. So and contacted
him the following morning, but it was a bit late
by the time. I think it was about one o'clock
in the morning by the time I'd got it, so
suppot it's late. Then rang him in the following day
and I got to talk with him and he told
me about having this experience that he heard some kerfuffle outside.
He's he's monitoring the farm for the farmer, so he's
kind of there, stay there. The farmer doesn't, the farm
owner doesn't, so he's hard to kind of look after
the livestock. He got they were out on evening grays
or what. He went to grazing and he heard a kerfuffle.
Usually thousands the cows escalators, so that caught his attention.
He went out there and he saw an object. The
object was relatively low and was tracking the herd, and
they were very upset and they were kind of scared,
tring into different locations to get away from this this
looming object. Bove He ran out there in the bit
of a palette, trying to get the cows over to
the nearer to the to the farmhouse, when the object
seemingly swooped swooped down, and at one point he said,
he panicked and he was running back to the farmhouse
looking up. This thing was actually tracking him then, and
he said he was about maybe fifteen foot above him,
which is pretty low. He looks up at it and
it's just a very bright source. He said he could
feel heat from it. He got inside the house, and
of course this is when he telefilmed the police. The object,
you know, some time later, the kind of just vanished.
We don't know where's where he kind of went. And
of course he got my number, left the message. I
contacted him, and what was interesting is that we kind
of set up an agreement for us to go up
to the farm and interview him the following day. The
problem is is that you know, we were going to
get there three o'clock in the afternoon, me to meet
with him, and I think he telephone doesn't just christ
was leaving. I think it was about around about midday
or something like that. Some people already at the farm
who were talking to him, and they just finished with him,
and he said, I really don't really want to I
don't know if I should talk. And I said what
do you mean and he said, well this was a
Sunday as well actually, so I said, well, what was
the situation? He said, well, people came out to the
farm and they were in suits and they had badges
on not Ministry Defense but m a f F which
is Ministry Agriculture, Fishes and Foods. Interesting enough, mister Wilson,
who was the actual farm owner was there and they
talked with mister Wilson. He didn't really you know, he's
quite offensive. Well you were you on my land sort
of thing, and like farmers get and they basically, you know,
wave the ma A badge in his face. And he
recognized that straight away because he got to consider that,
you know, this is a time where we've just come
out of their foot and mouth problem and with the cattle,
and you know, you didn't want to close any options.
The m a FF were the guys at that have
the the weight behind them to just close your farm,
you know, so these guys said, look, you know, we
want your cooperation you know, and he realized who these
guys were and he just thought, right, well, well do
you know what, do what you want. I'll help whatever can.
They interviewed Murphy and by this time Murphy's side of
his face was itchy and sore, as he said, I
don't know if he was just from heat or it
was just maybe something associated to that incident. And they
had arranged to see to around about five or six
o'clock in the evening to meet him back there because
they wanted him to go with him for some tests.
Right confused, but they said to him, you know, basically,
won't think or another you're going to you don't know how.
So basically their resources a lot better than our resources.
So we never actually got to mister Murphy, but we
did get to the farm. Unfortunately they beat us to
the punch. We found out from mister Wilson where Murphy
was living. So a couple of days later we thought,
let things settle down a bit, we'll go and visit
mister Murphy at his home. We got to the house
and it was completely vacant. The windows you could flow through,
there was nothing in there. The whole thing had been gutted.
He wasn't there, so there was a quick assumably a
quick move out. Now we don't know what happened to
mister Murphy and his wife, who was basically vacated back
to the island. Because it was a very strong Irish person.
I don't it didn't sound to me been long in
the country, to be honest with you, because it was
that broad Irish, because you tend to lose it over
a period of time in the country in England, and
we could never find him. We went back to talk
to mister Wilson. Mister Wilson said, he's been he's been
taught to by them aff not to speak to us.
And in fact they said they knew all about us,
you know, they knew about our organization, they knew about me,
and they knew about what we were doing. They obviously
mister Murphy had told him they beached out through the
police to us, so they must have, you know, by
the last time, they must have known everything about us.
So we have actually found mister Murphy. Mister Wilson said,
I can't speak to you. I've been told I'm not
allowed to speak to you. So that kind of got
closed down very quickly. There isn't many cattle farms up
there on the top of Windsor Hill, probably named just
two or three of them. But we were monitoring the
farm and there was somebody else monitoring us. Whilst we
were monitoring the farm. We were followed by vehicles and confronted.
On one occasion. There was obviously something that was interested
of going on here, and the cattle disappeared. One day,
we went up there and there no cattle, not in
the in the barn anywhere to be found. The cattle
didn't go to market. You know, we don't know what
happened to the cattle. There was about fifteen of them.
They didn't go to market because we tracked that and
there was there was no activity from the cattle going
to market. So we just don't know what happened. It
became it became a cattle fan without cattle, Yeah, because.
Speaker 4: They're all they're all registered there with the Fisher Food So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, files of all the data and all the all
the details that tagged details of the animals and all
sorts of things. They didn't go to market, so we
don't know if they were chopped off somewhere never to
be found again. We don't know, maybe they were purposely
taking away in case the cows were somehow infected. It's
an object. Who knows. So Murphy disappeared, Wilson wouldn't talk
to us. We ran the investigation still for quite some time.
We were being watched, you know, by others, and eventually,
you know, everything was the walls started closing around us.
So we ended up shelving it, you know, until we
can find out more data, whether it was responsible. They
did a good job because we never did get on
more data. What we can say is that, you know,
this object was clearly nothing you know that would be
civilian building would have thought, even though at that time
British Aerospace was just just around the corner. It's not
there now, but it was. It was nearby, and we
did suspect that maybe it was a test flight of something,
maybe then an exotic aircraft, and it shouldn't have been
seeing and the effected Maybe it came into some trouble
affected the area, but I don't know why it would
track mister Murphy, and it's an unusual incident. The true
phenomena either way, though, you know that location is no
stranger to that type of activity. So yeah, it was.
It was an interesting case. Unfortunately, we just know we
ever got to conclude it because their resources outweigh are
resources hundreds to one and we don't even know how
they managed to get to the location to the farm.
How did you know mister Murphy had seen them? Did
he get it through the police, did he get it
through the action? Did he know something that we didn't?
It was just I don't know, but I mean we're
pretty we're pretty on the ball, but they were, they were.
Their resources are massively significant more than now.
Speaker 4: So there many more questions than answers with that one.
Speaker 3: Then it is yeah, I mean it's not the first
time incidents up there. There's been closing counter incidents that
took place. A friend of mine who's passed away now,
Arthur Tomlinson of Die Gap Direct Investigation Group of Verial Phenomena,
which was based in Manchester. He does he took a
case up there with a girl who was coming home
from work at Experiences phenomena first time closing encounter. She
started to have she's such a very close proximity incident.
She did have some physical problems with the teeth. Her
teeth were kind of just crumbling as if like sudden
councium defin You know, she was visited by three people
from allegedly at all, from the Ministry of Friends, but
he acted a little unusual father who was very defensive
of her. She was shocked to see that he allowed
them in without just opening the door to him and
sat there comfortably in kind of a bit of a
day's state while these three guys interrogated his doors whatever, basically,
and she just couldn't understand to set our character for
her father to even let him through the front door,
you know. Yeah, yeah, he was just so submissive, so
that was unusual. He asked a number of different questions
about what she'd experienced and stuff, and pretty much after
the weather seems to be interested in what she experienced.
She went on to have a few issues and regarding
problems with the teeth and stuff. But it was a
close encounter incident, and that was up there on Winter
Hill as well some years back, which Arthur Soominson investigator.
So there are lots of strange things up that way,
and that you know, it's not just ufones but powanormal incidents.
Speaker 4: And even cryptic Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. Actually,
just just going back to that case you just mentioned
a second the door did she did? Did you ever
find out what she actually saw? What the nature of
the I.
Speaker 3: Mean, she she said the crack came over her vehicles.
She slammed the brakes on, but she was that she
thought there was it was an aircraft. It was got
a land on her and she was obviously going over
the hills and stuff, so she had some altitude too,
so she's worrying, Old God, is a plane coming down
on me? The over the car lit up the car
she used. The vehicle was stopped. The object was only,
you know, very close, probably twenty feet before the whole
car was flooded with light, and she was screaming and panicking.
After a short period of time, and seemingly if the
other incidents took place, she doesn't remember it. She got
her own panicking. The vehicle was left outside the house
and was seemingly okay. But she she just basically said
it was some type of object that was clovering over
her car. But there was no sound, no wind, no sound,
So it kind of rules out the helicopter hypothesis. Is
it some type of drone where we've got to be taking.
You know, you're looking in the nineteen eighties here, you know,
so we've come on a bit since then, but des
but who knows what it was. It was an interesting
incident enough to warrant three guys to come out to
her over the next couple of days, to the house,
and so they knew where she lived, and I managed
to get in a very strange run. I managed to
suppress her father to acts as he normally would do,
to allow them to come in and tell a guy
in front of him all very very profound.
Speaker 4: So do you think he was cohersed the It sounds
like it doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think something. I don't think it's a cohearse
because it was like he was suppressed mentally in the state.
You know, it's like a slight day's state. So you know,
I mean, you just did just you just opened the
door to them, so whatever they just She said that
they just looked like normal with people, you know, maybe
government type. But how his father reacted, how her father reacted,
she'd never seen anything like it. Eventually come around sometime
afterwards and she was questioning, you know, how come you
let them in? It was very vague. His memory as
to what had happened. So, yeah, something on toward had
happened there. It was very unusually.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very peculiar, isn't it. Then you know you've got
sort of two angles to that story, and haven't you.
It's interesting that you mentioned about the the lack of
sound and no wind or anything like that, because I've
spoken to many many people over the years, obviously doing
doing this podcast the last couple of years, and they
all say that when they have similar close encounters that
that you've just spoken about there, it's the same sort
of thing. There's there's no sound, there's no wind, you
can't hear if it's during the daytime, you can't hear
any traffic, you can't hear birds singing or any thing
like that. It's almost like you're in a complete bubble
where there is no sound getting in our nds. Well,
that's exactly, yeah, I mean those bubble experiences we refer
to in the UK is the hots factor in the
US refer to as dead zones or quiet zones. There's
a number of different theories behind it, even in quantum mechanics,
but those things have been going on for a long time.
It's as if like your your location. It's like the
reality of what we call the inn is lifted to
the experience and things aren't quite normal in the you know,
in your environment during those times. Busy roads don't seem
to have any vehicles on people passing by, there's no burss,
no sound is it's just really really strange. And this
is what this is where we start looking about, Well,
is our reality you know, sometimes distorted during some of
these experiences and we're brought to the experience and you know,
in the sense of speaking, it's very profound. We haven't
really got all the answer to it, but we definitely
think it's somehow it's metaphysical based than something to do
with maybe quantum mechanics or something that affects our reality
join those experiences very odd, yeah, very very odd. Indeed,
So just just going back to winter hell, I mean
you mentioned about paranorlimal incidents and cives as well. When
I spoke to Meck last week, he was talking quite
a bit about dog men's sightings and also the fabulously
named based of Bolton, uh being the northwest of itself
and and all Bolton. Well, what's what's your take on
those phenomena.
Speaker 3: It goes back a long time. I mean, this is
not a new phenomena. I think what came along a
long time later is the researchers. You know, I think
this has been around for a long time, and not
just you know in Bolton, all over the country and
all over we will Actually I think really from the
research that we've done, is that we're representative of phenomena
seemingly changes its appearance. It's multitude of different things. I
think we're dealing with the same phenomena, but the mass
changes over the years. Just I mean, I work alongside
the colleague Barry Fitzgerald, and you know he recognized early
on these early days are you know, the phenomena. If
you track the phenomena then so you know, you start
to see the same things if you track the mask.
You know, it's confusing because the mask is forever changing
and interactions with these various sources. You know, they exist there,
they're real, they're physical in nature when they want to
be and not physical when they want So it's a
metaphysical phenomenon, just like UFOs can be metaphysical and power.
Normal people do experience those things and it's you know,
it's it's you try and work it out. But the problem.
The thing is is that phenomena has always been delivering
what it's referred to as a psychological warfare. In the
sense of speaking, it's called absurdity. And what it does
is it generates absurdity for a reason, that absurdity can
stretch manything from seeing a small fairy to a bigfoot,
or some are banshee or you know, all sorts of
different things. Because we're just never have to looking at it.
We just sangly shake our heads and say, no one's
going to be like this, and sometimes nobody does, you know,
And this is why it's delivered in this sense. There's
no model to this phenomena. It's forever changing. Those incidents
do take place, you know, there's physicality to them. You
know they lieve everybody's behind but really, you know, in
a physical sense of an animal living up there, it's
just not feasible. I mean, it's just there's nothing to eat,
but there's not many places they can hide. I mean
most people used to think, oh, well, it's super elusive,
but it's a lot more than that, because large animals
like this neat a lot of food. And you know
that's not the case. And if they are predators and
they're going to track people down people come to a
hole and stopped in fear, then you think that and
thet tack might happen, but it never does. It's all
about the fear, you know. The reward is the is
the fear like a pontgeist phenomen it's it's the fear.
It's a fair feeding parasite. This is just like a
physical phenomenon, fear feeding. It's kind of the scar same traits,
but in the physical manner. Most people usually sense that
the environment is something firstus, that's what the notice and
strange this environment. Suddenly they get a chill, the fear
or sets in, even if they've been to that place
thousand times. Sometimes confusion gets sets in panic. Then the
animal or what this thing is tends to track them
if they can see it or not. Sometimes they hear it,
they don't see it. And it's all about the fear
of fair induction, the vexation cycle. So to us, we're
dealing with a metaphysical phenomena that likes to incite or
induce fear. There has been some physical attacks of animals
and stuff. It gets a little bit tricky because you know,
some of them are cut on the dogs or other
things and stuff. So we've got to kind of rule
out that some of them actually are questionable as to
what exactly is responsible. And it doesn't surprise me because
you know when they when it is physical, this phenomenon,
you know, it can do things like that, you know,
so we see it with animal attacks all over the world.
So it's the thing is is that you can track
this back quite over many many years, and is the
phenomena in that location. It's just it predates the documentation
of that area. To be honest, this is what we
find when we pushed back gets to a point where
somebody is not writing about it because it's early days,
and that's when you lose the track, you know. So
you have to consider, yes, there's a massive geological connection
with this phenomena. It's probably been here forever. It raises
its head what he wants to do, whenever he wants
to do, and people will experience that, and they'll probably
go on to experience it for over thousands of years
of years to come. It's just it literally does track
back that long. I mean, I know Barry's tracked it
back to you know, thousands of years BC, you know,
with the same phenomena. I mean, you know, dog men
are rare down carvings on Indian temples in India, dog
men half man, half dog. I mean, why would that
be in India? You know the Sumerian demonology, the demons
of dog men, you know, the humans with dog headed
these old ancient stories about them. In fact, rameses in
A D think it was fourteen A D was debating
with the with what is referred to as a bit
like a government at that time. Do these things have souls?
Because they knew they existed. So if you're going to
raise a debate that much, they must have you know,
they must have realized that these things are real to
some degree. This story is all over the world. You know,
dog men's sightings that happened in Australia. We had incidents
in Australia last year. I mean it's all over the place.
Sometimes they get referred to as were wolves and things
like that, like Ohio, Ohio, and the US is very
typical place for were all scientists. But again it tends
to be about the figure the incidents when they've been
pursuing people and one of them accidentally falls over. The
others are so scared they leave him there and just
carry on from him so much with your friends, and
he's so terrified that you end up with that instinctial
behavior takes over to freeze. It's like rabbits in the headlight.
If you don't move, he might not see me. It's
just some innate thing. It takes over us. Our system
was stood right over it. You know, it's huge thing,
and at that point you can think it's predatory. Then
you'd say, okay, well be meal, so meal take it
and just sat there. You know, it doesn't It's like
the game's up, doesn't know what to do, so it
runs off. It's like the whole process is about the
fear induction here. So we're doing some work in regarding
scientific understanding and tests of fear pheromones and if they
can be obtained and if it is somehow to do
with that, and also the induction of infrasonic sounds and
it's effectonos regarding through this phenomena. So it's you know,
it's it's it's a strange thing. And two people have
tried to put these into different boxes. But that's the problem.
The compartmentalization the subjects is a massive issue, and we've
got to break those down to get clear understand And
when you do, you start to realize, well, I got
a second. This, this is in the power noormal capital,
this is in this camp. We start looking at it
at all as phenomenology Blover. You start to realize very
quickly it's making a better picture, a bigger picture here.
And then you start to realize, well, I on a second,
is you know the narratives are wrong. You know what
we've been fed over the years, what could have been
done on purpose to be obviously you wanted to separate
the power normal guys from the euthological guys or the
cryptic guys, because those guys that never worked with each other,
not interested in each other, and that's a way of
never actually putting the dots together. You know, I think
it wants to break those walls down. People are starting
to see connectivity, which means there's evidence for it somewhere
there that they might be in associations of cross culturals
and beliefs and subjects.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so do you think you talk about this Let's
let's call it a creature for ease, excuse me, sort
of feeding off fear. So do you think that that
people can perceive whatever it is differently according to to
their level of fear how they perceive this creature both?
Speaker 3: Actually, I mean it's you know, we can have four
people experience in the dogmn incident and they pursued and
they'll all say this all the same thing. That's fat.
But there are reouslys of paranormal euthological stuff and people say, oh,
it was round and it was red, and the other
person was with the said no, it was triangular, it
was green. The thing is is that you know, we
all perceive slightly different trying to and not only that,
during these experiments, we realize that under certain conditions when
the phenomena is interacting, it causes problems psychologically in regarding
limiting your cognition. So you're not behaving properly either. Plus
you know you've got to consider, you know, some of
this phenomenons could be oscillating at certain speeds, you know,
like seventeen milliseconds, which will cause confusion regarding color. Other
oscillations can cause confusion regarding what's being identified. Were also
met with the problematic or programmed memory, which people think, oh, well,
you know, I find out more when you go for
hypnosis and think, well, I didn't remember that, you know.
So there's lots and lots of things. What we can
say for sure is that deception and manipulation of our
perceptions that take place quite commonly through all these areas
of phenomena. Again another connection between them.
Speaker 4: All can ask you about Project Doorway.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, about eight years in their own Project Doorway.
It started with the advanced study of UAP UFOs, Yeah,
UAPs and new terminology inputs and trying to reboot it,
I think, you know, yeah, for us, it was trying
to we we employed the methods of what is referred
to as power normal mechanics, which has come through from
the part psychological experiments about twelve years ago, and we
applied that to the process of UAP and we started
to have obtain data. Some of those things would be
like UFOs in connection to positive magnetic regions, some UFOs.
You know. The problem is, you know, we've had this
narrative for many years that oh it's you know, it's
all visitors from Rextra treasholds business from space. The evidence
don't support it in nineteen seventy seven, Heinich, you know,
Jail Heinich said in the secret meeting with New Form
that there's not enough, you know, there's not no evidence
as sexa threashold. In twenty twenty three September last year,
you know, NASA did a very extensive report and study
about UFOs so that they know that they're recorded and
rephotographed and witnessed and documented by the Pentagon and so
and so on. They also concluded that these no evidence
has support their Actura threashold. So surveys that we carried
out the countries that would actually assist, we kind of
worked out that, you know, well, the UFO is on
a daily basis around planet Earth. It's probably about every
twenty seconds. And then if you actually be a conservative
and say, okay, well, you know what, some of them
are houses and some of them are misidentifications, still a
huge number, and where they're all coming from, because what
NASA said is that there's no super highway. Might get
some bits of boss down here, but there's no super
highway passing back and forward from Earth. You know, there's
no mass disturbances in the Iono sphere, which they can
detect the ion. It's very autations disturbances. So they concluded basically, well,
you know what, they're not seemingly coming from. They're not extraterrestial,
So likely the phenomenas have always been here, So the
big question is where they caring from. The evidence throughout
project always suggests that they're actually interdimensional or something of
that nature. This is why we knew that about maybe
about five years ago, we stated that the extraterrescial hypothesis
is going to disappear, the terminology of eth is going
to get replaced by NHI non human intelligence. And know what,
that's what we're see now. It's all being replaced by
NHI because you know, we've got to get more into
the reasoning that these things are not extraterrestial, but they
are here in a sense, in another reality or another
dimension very close to our hours, and we can't control it.
They can interact with us at any given moment, and
they pay attention to some people who even targeted individuals.
So it's it's a very big problem that can't be disclosed.
No matter how many people take it to the table
at Congress, they'll never get anywhere. We know that it
started in the seventies with the Systems against Eutology movement.
They didn't get anywhere. All they got with pages and
pages of redacted information. It's is pointws they're never going
to give up that because it can't give up that,
because or less they give a lie, another narrative which
is just a lie, and another spoonfeed and something else
to take us away from the source. They are aware
at the higher ends, whoever these hierarchy are, that certain
government officials, even in congression, don't have the power to
cut through. These guys know that, and they've known this
for a while, but disclosing that is just not a
peaceable thing to do at all. So but jet Doorway
deals with the advanced study with the poweranormal mechanics, the
power normal aspects of euthology, gravity wells from the manifestation
of UFOs. We've actually tested, you know, we had planned
which have gone under tests scientific tests when they've been
affected by UFO that manifests close to the ground m
This is what it is referred to as plants biological
traumatology tests. And we also looked at the tests of
apported phenomena, you know, apports that take place in say
polta Geist disturbances. And what was interesting is that the
diathermic alteration in that mug, which was say aported, it's
the same traits. It's got the same digital markers as
the diathermic alteration in the plants. So we might sphere
theorize them that the sudden manifestation of a mug in
a Poltergeist case and a sudden manifestation of UFO close
to the ground are utilizing the same physics. Here is
another giveaway. So the more we do this, the more
we cut through the rubbish of the narratives, you know,
and that, and now we know for an absolute certainty.
We've got so much data now that we are dealing
with a source. The source represents itself in multitude of
different boxes that we've created, and it delivers in multiple
different ways, and it's the source. Whatever this source represents,
that's what it is. And the source is capable of
generating and creating physiological constructures which can interact with us,
which they can because it can be physical sometimes or
non physical other times. So that's pretty much what Project
Doorway does. It's it's the investigation based active work taking
place all around the world, which we've traveled all around
will conducting tests and research and come face to face
with the phenomenon many times throughout that path. We're also
called the eye of the phenomena, which has tracked us
back home on numerous occasions. So we had to write
in what we refer to as sort of respite protocols
when dealing with the phenomena. Do too much, you're going
to catch the eyes for a hitchhiker back home with you.
That can be problematic, which we've had. So it's just
a it's just a whole different form of investigation style,
but we actually are advancing it. We actually are getting
there because we've had to break down all those narratives
and all those compartmentalization of different subjects, so that as
a as a whole, that's what Project Door it pretty
much consists of. It's pretty cutting edge, you.
Speaker 4: Know, so it covers a massive number of different subjects,
and doesn't it really, I mean, you're Paranoil and the uapas, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Great, we don't see it as different subjects.
Speaker 4: We all interact with each other.
Speaker 3: Ye. So so what we do is we said that
we do it the other way around basically, well, what's
happening here, what's been reported and rather than put mis
sponsored and kind of say, okay, well, what's the connectivity here?
You know, I mean, why are people having normal actions
associated to UFO stuff? And that's been common right from
the Project Blue Bood days. But the Blue Book officers
that went out it was all orchestrated of us. You
know that if Missus Brown said, oh, well, you know,
I saw this UFO over the farmhouse and then we
had two weeks of poltergeist type stuff, but they don't
want to know that it's all Missus Brown sticks to that.
We don't know that ghostly stuff should stick to the
story about the UFO. It was happening back then. You
know that were these boxes have been created purposefully, maybe
because we would never connect those dots if we don't
look into these other areas, even par psychological, metaphysical studies,
font some studies. It all has something to play on this,
so it covers everything. Yeah, you could say it's the paranormal, supernatural,
the cryptid, the even some cases of demological aspects the UFO.
You know, you name it, it's in there because it's
all the same source being delivered in multitude of different ways.
Speaker 4: You mentioned hitchhikers, problematic kick shikers, So what sort of
experiences have you had with that since you mentioned going
to be very careful you don't bring things away with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, in the early days yours
used to get a little bit trap back home. But
when we started getting into these studies, that's when we
caught the eye of the phenomenon. The phenomenon watches us
now because we've been involved it a long time through
the experiments. There are a lot of experiments, I mean,
in part psychological, sir, because I've been involved in seventeen
specialized in experiments. Only food be released to the general public.
Just release an extra one. Actually, they were just preparing
to release an extra one because it has to be
delivered in digestible chunks. Really for the general point to
try and get aggressed for this. And what happens is
is that when we started to don't get me wrong,
you know, phenomena is actually occurring for you a significant agree.
You start to think, O, I want to do more.
It's exciting, you know, I want to do it again.
Let's do it again. Let's come back to my Let's
do it again, do it again. And that's what the
phenomena wants and wants you to do that because as
it's doing that, it's getting under your skin. After a
period of time, then you start to realize he didn't
leave the phenomena at the experiment attract and come back
with you, and it starts causing problems, you know, at home.
And so this is why we we had to induce
the introduce the protocols of respite so that you know
it's a safety protocol, so that you know that doesn't
happen too much. The phenomena is demonstrated a multitude of
metaphysical phenomena tools. It's done on purpose to show us
their capabilities from balls of light bouncing on the table,
to going through the table and up through the table
and down through the table and hope again and then
bouncing on the table again. It's like demonstrating or I
can be physical sometimes I don't need to it. Objects
can slide across the moving table and you might get
a direct voice phenoma which which is kind of electronic
based nor female nomail to move the object back. So
you'll move it back, and then the last will move
it and the last year to move it back, and
you'll go and reach out for it, but you can't
grab the damn thing. You can see it. It exists
in our visual site on the camera, and you can
see that it's the It measures in visual range, but
it's not physical in nature until they want it to be,
so they can break the laws of physics easily. You know,
recorded phenomena through instrumental transcommunication tests in experiment two, which
was reached a degree of being able to direct voice
familiar with them. But through the original process of itc
recording on various different equipment and cassette tapes and all
sorts of different things, we realized that we could pull
the power out from the cassette tapes. This has been
done before in a scoll experiment as well, and it's
all further on in the cassette. Even though it's not
going around, it's somehow further along. The phenomena replies on tape.
You can take even if you take the recording head out.
You didn't need. Actually, that's all we needed to do
is put a cassette on the side. We didn't even
need the machine called transplacement phenomen This is what the
phenomena can do. It can transplace to us as well,
because the whole hypothesis that you know, these things have
been communicating with us telepathically, it never was. It's called
the process of transplacement. It's interacting with us because we'd
pieces of equippment. It bypasses the ear drum. It causes
the vibrations and liquids of the year. So therefore you're
hearing voice and you're thinking, am I just hearing this?
Or you might be because it might just target to
jew Sometimes it can target other people together if they
wanted to. You can't rule out when somebody says, I've
just heard something. Now that's the problem. You know, we're
mechanisms just as much. Really. I mean, radios that communicate
with these things. Tubes have been taken out of the
radios and they still work. You know, they bellow out,
They've been put in famiday cases. They're still below out.
The breaching the possibly the boundaries of physical phenomena, you know.
I mean, we even got incidents in the UFO side
where beams of light have come down and affecting certain
types of equipment and things like that, maybe military based.
I saw those things when examining them have been physically
damaged physically damaged, which means again it's you know, they're
demonstrating the same phenomenon in numerous diffic ways. So that's
pretty much what Project Doorway is about, which it's it's
recognized in a number of high think tanks in areas
around the world which are also working in these specific areas,
should we say, and some of them have known for
quite some time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So you mentioned what you may describe as demons.
I mean, obviously there's there's historical flavors. There's been many
a story about people who've been sort of you know,
in Verticol has taken all the Bay demons. So is
this and forgive me because this is the first time
really that I've spoken to anybody about this type of phenomena.
So I'm I'm very much learning as you're telling me
what you know, what it's all about. It's all new
to me and some of it and I'm just trying
to process as you're telling it. So, if if you've
got something which attaches itself then to you as a person,
and it is it is doing things to you, it's
acting in a certain way, is that then why people
historically going back in the past have thought that people
have been possessed. Do you think that's the same sort
of thing, all the.
Speaker 3: Same thing, It's just a different mask. I mean, if
I said to people that there are no demons, you know,
no devils, no demons, no angels, no cupids, no charts,
you know, all these things, it's just it's the source.
It's just it's itself in numerous different ways. The Catholic
Church do that years back because they panicked and turned
all those experiences, those early UFO and occupant type experiences
into oh god, let's change it to an angel. Let's
say's that too a cupid. Let's change into this which
is dead. Because if you'll go back to the Vatsage,
you look at the source material, it tells you what
it really was. Oh no, we can't buy in the Bibles,
you know. So it's been interacting for a long time
there where. It's been going on as long as it
can go back in time. I think it predates documentation anyways,
So it's kind of always been here. We might be
the new kids on the block. But yeah, it's all
kind of the same thing. It's all one of the
same thing, you know. Manipulation. Yeah, total manipulation by this phone. Sometimes,
you know, it's just like humans. You know, sometimes they'll
do something, sometimes they do some baths. There's just a gender.
At the end of the day. It's not like, oh, well,
you know it's to do all this or do all that?
Do you appear to be whatever they want, you know,
and they interact to manipulate mankind. They go on for
a long time.
Speaker 4: We are the problem.
Speaker 3: We are the problems that keep putting these things into
boxes and names and stuff and it fits and they'll
use that and they go, well, you know, that's why
is everything grazed at the minute? You know, well, you know, well,
you have to ask the question, isn't that The question
is why did it change in the nineteen fifties from
the space bold as humans to the grays? Important question?
Or if you want to go back before that, you
know you can do. You can go back to the
serpent worship, you know there the lizard people, their actilian
type stuff, and again you can go back even further
and start from changing and changing. It's forever changing. It
in different regions, in different belief systems around the world,
different places. They'll have what is referred to. The phenomena
generated there will be befitting to what the ideas and
the concepts of religion is or the concepts of myth is.
That's why it delivers itself in a completely different manner
in Ireland, you know, as the faith and stuff exactly
say phenomena just doing the same thing but in a
different mask, and the same reply to all the places
all over the world, you know, but it's all doing
the same thing in a different manner whatever that thinks
it's suitable for in that region. And this is what happens.
Time changes things. The narratives will change over time because
they seem to fit try and fit in to the
hampering of all understanding of that time, and ours is
understanding forever changing. It has to change. So what you do.
This phenomena is evolving and it learns. It's very very
clever at learning. Occasionally make mistakes, you know, they're not infavorable,
but they occasionally make mistakes which just just think, oh, what,
there's a UFO has just landed in two thousand and nine,
and then well, what's that I's got nineteen thirties round
port whole windows with rivets and we didn't get that right,
you know, And because what they're seeing is not what
it is, that is the problem, the perception, and it
just kind of gets mixed up. So yeah, they make
the stakes, you know, but you know they will learn
from it. They'll learn from it, you know, straight away.
And they are evolving with us, and we've been evolved
with us for a very very long time. So when
you talk about demons and stuff, it's all the same phenomena.
It's just it's just how we perceive. It's a different mask.
You even created scenarios and how to deal with these things.
Oh the world, these like this. This is how you
deal with them. This is how you deal with them.
You know, they don't if this phenoma is very clever,
you know, he wants us to believe that you have
some power, you have some cloud. So therefore it might
vacate because you've done a blessing. Mm hmm. Well that's
because it wants us to see that. Oh well, this
narrative works, so therefore let's go down that path. The
bottle like it. The real story is is that you've
got no control over this thing whatsoever. It's also being
duped along the way, So.
Speaker 4: I exorcism just going back to the Catholic Church. That's
then this phenomena just allowing somebody to think that they've
got the upper hand.
Speaker 3: Don't get me to the person. They do vake cake sometimes,
you know, And in fact, exorcism is only twelve percent successible, right,
the first thing you won't tell you out the twelve
that do sort of disappear, you know, the priests and everybody,
you know, Raise that to the roof and tell everybody
and everybody got this theory, this narrative that oh right, well,
you know, if you bless a property, be doing exorcism
that sort of thing, then that's going to work. If
you think it's worked, then that's it's worked for them
because now we believe that actually works. And that's what
they want you to believe, because they don't want you
to believe is that you've got no control over this phenomena.
And we don't wear puppets on the string. We've got
no way we can deal with this. And it does
it on purpose because it's you know, it is what
we refer to as the human psychological warfare has been
going on for a long time, but with this phenomena,
it does it, but on purpose. The obsurdity phenomena is
it's usually the opposite of what we think. Always if
you just I say to people, just think of the opposite.
It is probably that you know, but do have some
diversions to stuff you don't. You know. Negative phenomena doesn't
like UV, negative ghenoma doesn't like iron. You know. It's
an ancient thing that goes back across time and countries,
and it's been evading or suppressing phenomena in numes different ways.
It doesn't work underground, unfortunately, but it works above around perfectly,
and it does and on many occasions it's assistful, you know.
So you know, you could say, well, you know, just
like John Keele said many years back in his studies
ultraterrestrial studies, he was one of the early ones that
came out and got shunned for saying what he did.
And it's acceptible a bit more these days, thank god,
that some of these things are active in the infrared,
some of these things in the ultraviolet. The negative stuff
is more in the infrared. As you would say. Therefore,
you know, and you get these night disturbances and things
like that, they usually have a negative your time if
you be woke up around about the three o'clock what's
the now it's well, the narrative is, oh, it's evil,
it's a devil, it's a demon because he's doing it
in three o'clock. It's a mock of the Trinity. Jesus was,
you know, crucified on the cross. It's a mock of that. Yeah,
it's done on purpose. Its makers think that, you know,
you know, it's said. People think that it can't interact
during the day, or it's always in the darkened room
when sales. Oh it's got to be dark, you won't
manifest absolute crock of rubbish. You know. This is what
it wants to make you think that, you know, because
it's not. It's absurdity, it's not true. We've got to
learn to how we get our heads around this before
we even try and understand what we're going to be
dealing with. And that's a pretty problem because people are
stuck in this social conditioning of the subjects for many,
many years and being dripped at this narrative so much
that they can't get it help head. Now you've got
people running around and a power normally investigates you with
infrared lights you know, just so that they hope to
pick up stuff. But what they don't realize is if
you want to go into somebody's what's ridd of phenomena,
that the induction of infrared light in the location is
an attraction for negative phenomena. You know, it's not going
to help people that it might help you to be
able to see better. I would say use it all,
you know, all field spectrum rather than infra red. But
there's so many things that people don't realize because they
can't get out of the narrative. And that's a big
problem break when pushing forward way more the problem of humanity,
because we've thought, oh, well, we put it in this
pot and this is what I believe, and this is
how to get and this is how to help, this
is how to get rid of it, you know. I mean,
we've we've read disturbances in people's hoes, not even been
to them. We've just advised them to do a number
of different things, and we tend to sometimes you know,
we're completely rid the phenomena on the on the backbone
of of what we advise them to do that would
normally be unheard of with our actual active investigation to
get rid of disturbances in the home. But you know,
it's just it's just knowing what you're dealing with at
the end, and after a while they can identify the
fact that you know. So when you start to press,
they'll take a step back, and your best phone, they'll
take a step back. They don't like that. And when
you pride a bit too much, sometimes you get a
bit you know, they get a bit nasty. It's like
a biting dog. You know, you push a dog and
it gets a bit afraid. Push a dog again, gets
it's a red pushy, pushy push. It's got a snap.
And it's the same behavioral standards with phenomena as it
is with anything else.
Speaker 4: To be honest with you, So do you think that's
where you get sort of really violent physical polter geist
sectivity from them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get real physical absolutely, yeah, I mean yeah,
they can do. The problematics of this is that the
first thing is is that you have to you have
to take away its energy of doing so. I mean,
phenomenal like that is feeding off the people's vexation cycle
to generate it. You know, they're absolutely terrified and it's
feeding off that it's a vicious cycle, you know, you
remove them the induction of fear and suppression. If you
can lower that, you'll lower the phenomena. In fact, when
the people realize you're low in the pharma, it's kind
of it kind of it can kind of get this
realism that they are associated with it somehow, and it
reinforces the fact that they are a little bit more
in control, the control their own actions. They can control
the phenomena. They're we're the ones in power, not the phenomenon.
The film is just speeding trying to create fit. They
love to know the humans so so well that you
know how to generate fear. I've become numb to it
through the process of practice. I mean, I've sat in
many places in dungeons and stuff. There's there's a demon
down there, and I've sat down there in the dark,
you know, and bought out my head doing a costword,
you know what I mean, you know, because but if
you turn somebody else down, it might they might get
an interaction because it's not going to get the rise
from me because I'm onto it, you know, And they
kind of theyd look at me and they kind of
back off and they do the same with my colleague
Barry Child. You know, but they've got the beady eyes
on us always because now we've had our footing that
pulled for so long, the door doesn't shut anymore. So
we are now unfortunately on their list in a sense
of speaking, their scope, and we have regular occurrences we
cannot shut down anymore because the door's been jammed open
in some sense because of overproduction of investigation and research
into areas that they didn't like which caught their attention.
So everything's done in small quantities. There is a risk
involved with all phenomena. And I keep saying to the
people to this, always taking to consideration that you are
the lying upon your own sensors. This work. Barry did
some great work on this, and it's about you know,
you're recognizing your fight of flight. The skin in our
bodies is the biggest organ we have when it tells
us how normally investigators will tell you that when you
walk into the room and all the hair stand up
at end, Yeah, what is that? Well, it's I tell it.
It's your fight to apply. It's your survival sense kicking
in saying just because I don't see something, just be
I don't hear something, doesn't mean it's not there. I
don't like it. Back off. That's what if your body
is telling you. Normally we do the opposite thing, but
in some cases you know it's the wrong thing to do,
because this is why people end up having bad experiences
sometimes because you haven't listened to the instinct. But the
problem it is society doesn't want this, wants that out
of us. He wants the dumbers down to this phenomena
because the hierarchy know, you know that our ancient ancestors
were so pure. We don't have chemicals and all this stuff,
and we breed and drink and eat, poisoning the body
on a daily basis. They didn't have. They were very
attune with planet Earth and frequence and the phenomena. The
thing is we're disconnected and they want to keep us
that way. So what did they do? You keep introducing
all these chemicals and stuff, get us hooked on refine
should that's the worst one. When we do an investigation,
we tend to starve ourselves at seventy two hours and
refine should be surprising how you body reacts fight flight
response Because sugar causes andrea or weakness which is separating
you from your bat to or flight. So you're warning
signals and'd body be gone to get them. You know,
if you attune your body to recognizing phenomena, then you
know then react to it. I always say if your
body's reacting, is tag saying take a step back, not
a step forward. But nothing is because it's the very
induging your body is recognizing something which is dangerous. You know,
if you don't have that feeling and you do experience
and then it's usually probably okay, but listen, you know,
sometimes it's not, and you'll listening to the body to
do that. So we have a process of how to
do that when we're out in active investigations and stuff.
It's just a learning process to be honest with you
and changing the mindset because somebody has learned that from
somebody else and somebody else and somebody else, and you know,
it's only to be rotten to be wrong, and everybody's wrong,
you know. And this is the problem is is that
you know, no way are we're saying we're absolutely right
and everything, But what we are saying is that we
can put it to the test and prove a lot
of things, and that one thing is is that we
do still have a mechanism inside us. So that's a
survival sense, it's a warning mechanism. We still do have it.
We want to listen to it, but you've got to
get you've got to get. We find sugar is the
worst thing really because you're not going to get your
fight off like response. You're not going to have it.
The warning signals are going to be going up and
you're not going to be hearing them. So sometimes it's
listened to forget this and kind of more this really
and this is how our ancients did it as well.
You know.
Speaker 4: So has there ever been throughout all your investigations, all
your research, has there ever been any times where you've
actually thought, shit, this this, this is, this is scary,
you know. Has there ever been anything that's really worried you?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the first time I got thumped across
the room by Appointadie, Yeah, that was Warring. That was
nineteen ninety six. In fact, I almost left, almost left
and didn't. I didn't do that very well. What happened well,
I mean there was an investigation and we're doing on
behalf of Rochdale City Council regarding ed studies in the home,
and there was a few of us in the researchers
in the in one of the rooms, and we heard
a noise behind us, like a like a rasping breath,
and just about to turn around and I got thumped
and I ended up across the room and it was
a real bloody hurt, be honest, I had a big
bruise there for weeks, you know. And what was interesting though,
is that, you know, early on in my life I'd
done I'd been an engineer and electrician and all sorts
of things, so I knew what it would like to
have an electric shot because I used to think, quite
a big guy, how do it lifts me on the
top of them? I ended up on top of a
dressing table, and I mean, how does it do that?
I mean really, And afterwards when I realized it was
kind of a basically it was a physical plunch, but
it was also an electric shock at the same time.
It's the electrical the natural electrical phenomena, part side of
the politic disturbance infestation. So it's but I'd recognized that
from being an engineer or really repelsia, and that's kind
of how it did as well as a physical punch.
So yeah, that was he bothered me a few days.
A few days later, I was like, wow, how does
he do that? And I started getting into the physics
of it, you know, and then I thought I've ended
up backing it again, you know. But at that time
it was that's it. I'm done, I'm out of it.
You know. You learn over the years. Yeah, there's been
some he's he's put on some displays to try and
scare the living daylights out sometimes, but we're onto it,
you know, and the usually once we once we get
to that point, sometimes they're different. This isn't something else
as well that there are different There were different things
with different energies or you might say ranking. It's like
a ranking. It's like, well, send the big boy out
of sometimes. You know, we've we've we've been involved in stuff.
When we get the little things and the minions, you know,
as we say, they don't bother us. We know how
to deal with those sort of things. Sometimes if we're
really doing something, it really catches our rye they send
the big boy out. And when they do send the
big boys out, I mean, this is like sending the army.
You know you did did they'll do rip right through
your house, ripping light fittings off and throwing stuff around,
and you know, and manifesting in the horrible images and stuff.
You know it's or they'll they'll reach out from underneath
the bed, that the physical arms will come through the
bedroom underneath of the bed and grab hold of you.
And you know this own paper. So so when you
get to that stage and they send a big boy out,
you know what they haven't really learned. Maybe it's just
a human trait, it's reversed psychology. I mean they've just
hang on a second. You just realized, Will you realize
what you're doing. You just told us fuel on the
you know, putting fuel on the fire. You just told
us you're on the right path here, which you just
buy your actions alone. They don't seem to get that
for some weeks. I don't know why you think they would,
you know, but sometimes you know we've had Yeah, they
presented us. But if you know how to, if you
know what they're doing, you kind of work the mechanisms out.
It doesn't matter how they appear totly our mind. You know,
they can appear to be whatever, because they're trying to
get a trigger response. But if you can see through
that and see the pretense it's behind it, it doesn't
work too well for them, and then they get very frustrated.
Speaker 4: This this is this is perhaps why the well, they're
so interested in you, because they know that you've you've
got the measure of them, well.
Speaker 3: To some degree.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think I've put a dinner. I
don't think that's I I don't think I'll learn it
all in my lifetime, but I'm kind of onto a
lot of the stuff as well as badly, you know.
And and this is why we're always on their scope
always now we know on their scale, you know, because
they're always watching and always around, you know.
Speaker 4: Yes, So I was going to said, so do you
do you feel them around all the time? Then, well,
you know, when when you're having a shower or when
you're having well, beave.
Speaker 3: Kind of normal, Lise. But what happens is is that
I'll get a certain feeling and myself and buried the same.
It's like the taste of a lemon. You never forget
the taste. And I'll usually say all right, okay, all right,
so we did something here tonight, you know, and usually
they just like to play tricks and annoy you and
usually just shower them, you know, lose temper with them.
But sometimes it's it's things which are if depending on
the research we do. We know we know because we
can tell well, why is that happening? We're doing that
same a research again, but I mean we it's half
and boy works in you know, Samarian demonology for a
while in vocation and no King in vocation and stuff.
This is the same thing that Alista Crowley was involved
in in the you know, in the invocation of Lamb
and chat Parsons and stuff like that, which they were
doing it as well, so we wanted to We did
study that area as well very well. And we know
the trigger responses to get reactions from the phenomena usually
want something in the term I wouldn't give them, and
sometimes when dealing with that, then you're dealing with something
sort the chain is a little bit more. Should we say,
there are simple things that they just won't answer for,
you know, you know, they just will talents they'll tell us,
they won't tell us, but these things have replied that,
you know, we can reappear to be what you want
us to or we use They've actually even used the
mask themselves in communications. So yeah, I mean we've got
to a point where we were we're identifying what it
isn't m hm, which is more so than what it is.
Whatever this source is, if it's if it's godly or whatever,
you know what we want to call it. It's the source.
It's responsible for the lot. And you think about it,
three thousand different varied aliens going for all these differ planets.
It just sound like a Star Wars episode. Oh and
rolled by people on two arms, two legs, two eyes
and the nose and so on.
Speaker 4: Star Trek, isn't that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, if you want to see someone alien, just
go to the bottom of the North Sea, you know,
I mean, it's you know, I mean, it's just you
look at it and you think hard it's narrative is
striving bloody potty, you know, And the lawyers give you
the good old one line as oh, we're here to
save planet Earth. Really, why what we've done? You know,
you've done nothing. In fact, you should have done it
twenty five years ago, because we've gone past saving Earth. Now,
that's why all the money's being spent looking in for
new planet Earth. Because we pressed the button today, it's
going to take twenty five years the machine to stop,
and we're only twenty five years gone by, you know,
so there's no returning on that. So what they've done? None? Nothing.
Oh so you're here to save humanity, all right? So
what what we've done about warring? Millions of lives being
killed every other week or so? Absolutely nothing? So basically
you tell us that you're here to save planet Earth,
but you've done nothing, and here's the safe humanity and
done nothing. Okay, well, you know, presing the pudding. As
far as I'm concerned, it's like your one liner if
you come across the humans, this is what you say.
You know, it's it's the old one liners, you know,
because it's just we're onto them, buddy. You know. That's
that's as simply as it.
Speaker 4: It sort of strikes me then in a way that
this this this phenomena is feeding off as isn't it
feeding off?
Speaker 3: It's yeah, some of it, all of it. Some of
it does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, some of it is britten off our emotions. So
it's not gonna it's not gonna come here to save us. Well,
it might do because it needs us, doesn't it Is
that how it comes across that it needs us?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think we're definitely. I mean we might
be a byproduct of something that they created. To be
honest with you, we like cattle to them. Of course,
Yeah it did, isn't it. I mean, I mean it's
no different than us being godlets who are gazelle. Gazelle
think when we when we take it and analyze it.
Sometimes we might take it in and feed it and
you know, it's let's heal it, let's feed it, and
it'll go away to the crowd and say I've had
a wonderful experience. But then the guy next to me,
he's tagging him, taking him down and you know, doing
some medical tests on which might be a bit painful,
we don't know, and it's going to go fly back
there and saying where do.
Speaker 4: You belave it?
Speaker 3: You know. So it's it's different really than always trying
to understand like an ant trying to understand us. You know,
it's it's we could we can't go our heads around
this because they're so masterful that they've got us exactly
where they want us. They manipulate us, our perceptions, our
physical aspects and psychological aspects. And if once you nail
that down, then there's not a lot we can do.
To be honest with you, we ain't got no control
over this, and that's why we won't get disclosure because
bottom line, you can't drop this on the laps of
the ger more public. Never digest it. Never.
Speaker 4: I'm going to say there will be panic. So that's
probably an understatement. So do the top echellons of world
government know about this phenomena? Have they dealt with it?
Speaker 3: Oh? A long time?
Speaker 4: For a long time. This is why.
Speaker 3: I mean the whole point. I give you just one aspect.
There's thousands of aspects. Let me give you one aspect.
Everything that we've done by getting to space is through
them m They give us the information they were communicating
to rocket scientists and you know, to get us into space.
And they've done it. They've they've raised our technological capabilities
to get us to space. And it's down too. Then
the hierarchy is they will go into space. This is
why they won't tell you or me or the general public,
but they pay hobbage. This is why Masonic things are
done on the moon Prior to they moved back by
the American blanguage and sonic sonic rituals took place. I mean,
and when you do certain launchers, you know, this is
why they call them the godly names, Apollo and all
these sorts of things, because the Greek gods that are
exactly the same phenomena. Greek gods were experienced. Believe or not,
this is not meant the Greek gods were experienced because
the phenomena delivered itself to them like that, just as
it did with Sheba, you know, and Buddha and all
those other This is this is what it does. Yeah,
And this is why the religions are so well well rooted,
is because of they come from the times when these
things were being physically interacted with and you know, some
crafts as well, and the manas and things in India
and stuff and many others around you know, the world
from thousands of years ago. The thing is is that
it's just been delivering to us in a different way
into different cultures and different names, different societies, dis social,
social upbringings. And that's the that's the biggest problem is
because we all think it's separate things, that it's all
just this thing acts like a virus. You know, it
can be passed through from bump person through another as
well and through association of the phenomena. So it's there's
so much we've got to kind of get our heads
around with this, to be honest, because we've got to
slowly start dissecting, putting things in the way, getting rid
of the boxes, realizing this is the overall source of
of what it's going to be, you know, relating to
us in regarding our experiences with these things, but they
can be anything really. You know, people have said, oh,
there was animated toys. Woun't looked like a clown. It'd
looked like a deer, It'd looked like a bird. I
was a giant bunny. It was set in the road.
That was another one that came from the that came
from the the Navajo rangers. You know, so so many
different things. You know what this is all the same phenomena.
If all we got to do is look at the
whole picture and the atap to realize, yeah, this doesn't
adult and now this is now they're saying, is they're
all shouting out, there's no evidence of it being a
stressed us Somewhere we won't say the right here, the
right here, right now. We're just under right under our noses,
but we don't know it because we are the most
limited thing or living thing on this planet. Why we're
so you know, we're so intelligent, but why we're the
most limited thing. Well, with intelligence comes knowledge. We can't
have that. So what the humans are naturally limited right down,
worse than any insect, worse than any animal you'll meet.
We're the worst on the planet. You know, our limited site, hearing, sense, smell, everything, touch,
it is we've been limited so that we are blind
to what's around us. Even our wepet cat knows more
about what's what's around us than even we do, you know.
And and yet you know it's it's crazy, but it's
we there's way we've been humanly designed to where these
massive blinkers so that we can't see what's around us.
It's all part and parts of the creation of humanity
in the sense of speaking that we were never supposed
to peer through the doorway through the bails to the gods.
And when you do and you realize that, well, you know,
whatever this thing is, it's been with us forever and
it can be anything he wants to be and interacts
any time he wants to be. If you gain its eye,
it interacts with you, does have a sting in his tail.
Sometimes may be not careful, other times it can be rewarded,
especially to those that are inventors, musicians, people are going
to change and society in the world. They've been interacting
with us a long time. This but on it still
does it today. But the science how it's got to
the stars, no matter if it's the Germans, no matter
if it's the Russians, no matter if it's the UK
or US. The top scientists all got the download information,
all got told, all into In fact, most of them
were actually in occult rituals and we're communicating with non
human intelligence. Is to get the information is what Jack
Parsons did. And this is why you've been able to
go into work on a Tuesday morning and build a
rocket and people think, how the hell did he do that? Well,
because you told how to do it it and it
was achievable. But to do that, though, you've got to
pay homage. And this is why the secret is still
paying homage today. We're still doing it's still launchers happening
now and if you see somebody, you don't see them
because they're not in the public domain. But I've seen
some of these details of these launchers. And if you
look at the sides of these crafts, they've got eno
key in symbolism on it. They've got ancient Latin symbols
on it. It's homage writing and language to the disease
intelligences and thanking them with us to getting nuts to
the stars. And they all know where, but they don't
talk about it. It's like the big bush bush.
Speaker 4: So why why do they want us to go to
the stars? Do you think?
Speaker 3: No idea? What they seemingly the problem about is is
that they're advancing us. This is why UFOs crashing. Do
you think they're gonna, Oh, let's just crash a ufo.
I mean it's just oh this UFO has just falling
apart in the sky, always broken down. Oh it's crashed,
Oh it's blowing up, or pieces have fell off. These
are offerings in the hierarchy, in my circles, in my
in my thin and some things I can't say. Well,
what I can say is these are referred to is
gifting fields. They're referred to as offerings these are done
on purpose. The sacrifices are biologics and technology. So because
they already advance us secretly through the military process first
fifty sixty eighty years eventually came to the public domain
one way or the other. Time is a whole different
thing to them as it is to us, but it
does advance us. You know, these things are being done purposeful.
There's nothing comes down accidentally. You know, it's obviously gonna suddenly,
you know, because these craft, this is these aren't things
that transports for the phenomena. The craft is the phenomena.
That's what they don't recognize.
Speaker 4: So just one last question, if you don't mind.
Speaker 3: Sure, if the.
Speaker 4: Top petial loves of government know about this and I'm
working with them, do you think there will ever be
a time where they will hold their hands up and say, well,
actually this is what's going on or do you think
it is just so mind bending so you.
Speaker 3: Never do that because they need control. Yeah, with you
know a lot of most people work and you know,
keep your head down getting all the life. You don't
ask any question. That order has been there from you know,
ancient times, were it was formulated in ancient times. The
process is still working today. You know, it's called the
fair process. It's called government, how it governs. I mean,
think of the word governing over what what? Well, if
we're not different, then there's no one's going over, you know.
So even in the word means divide, I mean, and
this is what it was in sumary days, going back,
you can go back, back, back back. It was employed
that same process as modern today. But it's seeked through
those are inducting into those sorts of things, a hierarchy
are bought. Unaware of these things. Sometimes I actually will
pay homage and numerous different ways. You know where the
god are tunnel, because tunnel in the world that went
through Switzerland, the massive underground tunnels for the training system
as a whole Satanic opening ceremony where delegates all over
the world came, you know, and it's to pay. It's
nothing to do about we go, oh my god, they're
all saying worships. No, it's not, it's just it's just
in a it's a mask. It's you know, it's recognizing
that this is a mass sort of the pharo the
phenomenal recognizes is for them. So thank you, please make
it successful, Please make us healthy and wealthy and all
those sort of things. Yeah, it kind of works. I
think eventually might get I don't know what happens at
the end of it, you know, but they're rewarded to
some degree in it being being success. And that's happening
at every level around the world by those that know.
And this is why you know, we we build medical
not medical weapons, these different types of weapons that we
use now chemical weapon sites have been relocated to negative
anomalies in association to the homaging of these things. And
it's successful and it's good for them, and you know,
but there's all that people think it's a really dark side.
It isn't. It's just because it's also to put these
names and things to it. It's all just if you
forget the face of it and the names of it,
it's all the same thing. But yes, it's it's it's
there is a divide and I am aware, absolutely aware
of the people knowing about this, you know, but they
don't talk about it. Keep it quiet.
Speaker 4: Wow. Well, all I can say is I am absolutely
blown away. There's an awful lot.
Speaker 3: Well, do you know what most people in this subject,
you know, I mean everybody, but most of them are
on the they're trying to make the best out of
the known narrative. We left that narrated long ago. Yeah,
but eventually you know that they'll get frustrated because they
hit a bit. Well, they won't go no further, and
they can't because they think, why am I not getting anything? Well,
it's because you've just boxed yourself into the box you
work in. Yeah, get rid of the box, get rid
of the narrative. Don't believe what you're told. Yeah, yeah,
I mean we get the next time we get with
somebody who goes and gets abducted by this phenomena. Of course,
you're always taken to their environment. Don't last long in
our environment. That's the whole other story about the immunity system.
But the program and we really have a bad experience actually,
but they don't remember it, and so they go it's
all great, all love the night. They'll go and tell
a research and that research or write a book and
forty thousand people who read that book and go, oh,
it's all all over light. Yeah, that's the phenomena. At
the end of the day, all it wants is homage.
It it likes, it's flocked. Yeah, it's a question what
you're praying to. Always question what you're bringing in. Bring
in the Holy Spirit. What's the Holy Spirit?
Speaker 4: I was going to say, is there a God aspect
to this?
Speaker 3: The God aspects is part and part of of the narrative.
The sauce is the source. We've got different names for them.
They can present themselves in different ways, and we've got ours.
It's called you know, we call it God. You know,
if you go to the Old Testament, our God had
his bad days and would smite people. He even asked
people to sacrifice the sons to him blood wish o work.
God me no different than the mains as tech Acres
and any other God around the world. They've all wanted
their pound of flesh at some point. And this is
what Jack Parsons had. You know, when Jack Parsons said, well,
do you know what, We'll give you the geological location
to go out to a certain location to interact with us.
Where was it middle of my Harvey desert? What did
he do to have to gain information from him? Well,
he had to give them a sample of his own blood,
which was a blood offering. It's a sacrifice. I didn't realize,
but that's what it was was give them something in return. Oh,
these always want something something normally in return, so you
know it's and then half of it. Sometimes he give
you disinformation on purpose. Sometimes this is why they've real society.
We're doing it by Boeing, Bell and Douglas. Our company's
got around sales tables to trying to get information from
them about advanced aviation. It's it's been going on for
a long, long long time. But it's it's not so
much like, oh, is it a guard or this is
the source. We've just got to get off that. We've
got to train ourselves not to get out of what
they've done for years and years and years of this narrative.
And once you realize, you're trying to kind of have
a light bulb moment and go, bloody hell. You know, well,
we've been trying to figure out what the hell that is,
but we didn't even need to be there because that
box doesn't even exist. They created that. We're wondering how
to work out what's going on in that box? Why
forget the box? You know, it's that's the whole point
of this, And eventually it's been people get a little
bit unstuck when it comes to research, because they won't
go no further and they'll try and figure out, well,
why what else do we need to do. Basically, there's
a whole process needs to change and what's needed to
be done here in the approach of investigation and research.
So for me, I've been lucky. Don't tell me. I
considering myself very lucky to be able to talk to
academics and professors and certain people which are open to
talk to me about things I can't talk about to
the public, but I get to find out stuff, and
I can certainly say the reality we live in is
massively different than what we think. But if you want
the follow the narrative which is comfortable, you can get.
You can manage it. You know, you can hold your
head down and you can go on with work and
never look up and happen any questions. You'll get through
your life. For me, though, you know, I think to myself, God,
there's more than a life, and this has got to
do so much more out there, and you have to
pry open it like a bad can, and when you
do you might realize some size. Well it doesn't always
smell sweet inside, but it is what it is. You know.
The problem is is that we only know how to
describe something from with the learning of description, and this
is the biggest problem. It's a source. At the end
of the day, even AI is telling us that it's
a source everything. Even AI pointed out that everything is
connected power and almost supernatural eucological critics. Everything is because
of its connectivity. You AI sorted that out very quickly,
but it said what was responsible? He said, the source?
Wherever that source is, is it God? We have to
come up with a name. Then, yeah, it's dot.
Speaker 4: You know, well, it's been It's been an absolute eye
opener to say, thank you, Yeah, welcome, it's been amazing,
so into you, really unbelievable subject. I hope that that
you know, the people that have listened to this podcasters
as blown away as I have been in this, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: They Where can I'm still learning myself here?
Speaker 4: I think. I think we're all learning, we all learned
through life. But where can people get in contact with you? Saved?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, basically, most people in so many
different places in touch with me. I would just normally say,
put Steve Mirror in mr Right, Steve Mirror into any
Google will pop up somewhere. I've always made myself easy
to get hold of. You know, my details are out there.
I've never you know, people have said to me, I
can't believe all and managed to speak to you. I said, well,
I've always done that. I meant, I've not been to
hide my phone numbers up over the internet, emails there.
I just get in touch and I've always been helpful
because the work I've done over forty one years now
is about delivering it into a lot of researchers. Don't
you know which mind? Well, what is the point. The
old point is trying to advance this and get and
we get people to kind of understand what the reality
is like around them. We might be all together eventually
it's figures something out, but it's always out there. So yeah,
I would say my email address s Underscore memor at
yahoo dot com. You can get in touch me through
Phenomena Magazine dot co dot uk, which is the CEO
of Phenomena Magazine. So that had come my direction. My
own official YouTube channel is Steve Merror Official. A lot
of my work I put out on project always on
there so anybody can watch it. I've readly putting content
out but most people just trying to tap me up
somewhere out there on.
Speaker 4: It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank
you for taking the time to do It's been as
I said, it's been a real eye owner subjects. It's fascinating,
fascinating subject so it's been great.
Speaker 3: No, well, thank you for having me on, Craig, and
and keep in touch if you want to come back.
Speaker 4: On some time and let me absolutely see. I'd love
to speech you again. And I really what I've got
a I've got a funny feeling. There's a lot more
to talk about.
Speaker 3: That's just doped the coffee.
Speaker 4: It's been fantastic, Thank you so much and I hope
to speak to you again soon.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, Craig, Thanks very much, thank you, Bye.
Speaker 4: Bye tech care. You can visit my website at www
dot Craig Bryant dot co dot uk.
Speaker 2: Paramal Pendle will return and remember to keep watching the shadows.