WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.279 If you think about it from our crypto perspective, custody 2 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:05.719 could be a phenomenal place they could deep right into 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.279 Many of the banks has not been able to create 4 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:11.919 let's say, the best user experience or the cheapest or 5 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.480 the most secure way of actually storing your crypto. And 6 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:17.800 for me still I think there's nothing who beats you know, Kedano, 7 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:19.600 a bit kind on a hardware wallet. I mean this 8 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:21.280 basically keeps it in your control. 9 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:25.600 Do you see the evolution of financial markets and banking 10 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.199 going on chain where it's no longer let's say a 11 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.359 brick and mortar location, but it's on my phone a wallet. 12 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:34.439 Well, yes and no. 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If you sign up with my link, which 42 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.439 is I Trustcapital dot com slash Thinking Crypto, you can 43 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.039 get an exclusive one hundred dollars funding bonus, So go 44 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:22.000 learn about this great, safe and awesome way to buy, sell, 45 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.960 and custod your crypto. A great alternative once again with 46 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:29.199 tax advantages and a lot of safety, very safe compared 47 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.759 to many exchanges, and all the links will be in 48 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:32.360 a description. 49 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:33.199 Check it out. 50 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:36.919 Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, 51 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:40.400 Tony Edward and joining me today is Frederick Gregard, who 52 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.520 is the CEO of the Cardano Foundation. Frederick, great to have. 53 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:46.759 You, Thank you, Thank you for having me. Frederick. 54 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:49.759 A lot's happening with Cardano and I'm excited to dive 55 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.319 into the details and all the newly exciting initiatives. Let's 56 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:54.879 kick it off with your background. Tell us a bit 57 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:57.039 about yourself and your professional background. 58 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:01.280 Oh that's always an amazing question. And I guess I've 59 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.319 been building banks for about twenty years in one way 60 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.360 or another. So it turned out I was not the 61 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.680 best sort of trader myself. I was a bit too emotional. 62 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:12.639 So I stuck my nose deep into the technology and 63 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:14.560 saught Okay, if I just had better technology, if I 64 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:18.280 had faster lines like radiant lines and no frequency and 65 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.759 you know, high frequency trading and no latency and really 66 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.479 short of like, you know, use technology to my advantage. 67 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:26.439 But I was still a bit too emotional. So I 68 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.840 went readly deep into infrastructure banking and spent the close 69 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:33.039 to twenty years building banks and asset managers and investment 70 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:37.639 banking rails, while I started dappering into crypto and blockchain. 71 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:44.400 For real, that's amazing that line. I build banks, and 72 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.400 it's amazing that you're now here in crypto. So do 73 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:52.000 you see the evolution of financial markets and banking going 74 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.400 on chain where it's no longer let's say, a brick 75 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:58.280 and mortar location, but it's on my phone a wallet. 76 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.280 Well, yes and no, so we have to kind of 77 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:04.000 think about what is banking and what has banking become? Right? 78 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:06.800 But I think diffinitely you would see is much better 79 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.599 user experience on your phone and you'll be able to 80 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.680 do much more things. Unfortunately, we are still fighting a 81 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.160 little bit with finding it the right place for banking. Right, 82 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.439 So what should they actually do? I mean, if you 83 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:21.160 think about it from a crypto perspective, right custody could 84 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.839 be a phenomenal place they could dab right into, but 85 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.480 many of the banks has not been able to create 86 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.120 let's say, the best user experience or the cheapest or 87 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.680 the most secure way of actually storing your crypto. And 88 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.360 in many ways for me still I think there's nothing 89 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:39.639 who beats you know, Karano or a bitcoin on a 90 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.399 hardware wallet. Hunh. I mean this basically keeps it in 91 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.319 your control, but it also requires that you have more education, right, 92 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.199 and it requires that you take responsibility of your own life. 93 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:50.879 And there is some people who are still saying some 94 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.399 two businesses to do that. And therefore, you know, you know, 95 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:55.600 going to a crypto custodian or going to even a 96 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:58.879 bank who has highest scrutiny around that is a good option. 97 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:01.839 And when you go go to sharing risk for instance, right, 98 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.399 we've seen that most banks don't share risk anymore. In 99 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:06.360 the old days, you know, it was very frequent that 100 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:08.759 you know, the banker was on the board, right, or 101 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.000 the banker was helping to do a generation change and 102 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:13.959 stuff like that. That's we nearly don't see that anymore. 103 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.680 I find that's a shame. I mean, banks actually do 104 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:20.000 have a role to play, but it has to be 105 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.240 aligned with what the clients want and expect, and I've 106 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.439 seen less of that in the last sort of eight 107 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:27.600 to ten years unfortunately. 108 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:30.800 Yeah, that's a great point, because we are seeing the 109 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.120 convergence of tradifying crypto. And to your point, a lot 110 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.000 of the banks are now partnering with exchanges to offer 111 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.040 crypto trading, some are launching stable coins, some are doing 112 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:42.920 custody as well. And to your point, there's going to 113 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.439 be a segment of the population who's going to say, look, 114 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.439 the private keys are scary to me, and custoding my 115 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.879 own crypto assets, I'm too scared of that. But I 116 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:54.600 trust maybe JP Morgan or City Bank, which I've been 117 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.399 using for a long time. I put my money in there, 118 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.560 I may use them for custodial services, So I guess 119 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.560 you know, to your point, some folks are going to 120 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:04.959 go that direction, right, Yeah. 121 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.439 I think what we're seeing more innovation is actually in 122 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:09.879 the asset management space. I don't know if you notice, right, 123 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:12.639 but the Karana Foundation actually was that the London Stock 124 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.639 Exchange that was bringing the bill a couple of weeks back, right, 125 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.480 because we actually tokenized a reinsurance product and normally the 126 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.040 entry ticket for that is one hundred million dollars, and 127 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:27.079 you know that's nearly everybody, nearly impossible and therefore the 128 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.560 only access to that is through investment banks are really 129 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.360 last asset managers. But we've been able to bring that 130 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.000 on chain on Karana, right, and we're able to do 131 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.279 that with the highest level of security and compliance, and 132 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:42.600 that's why also we could list that on the you know, 133 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.439 on a Tier one stock exchange with the London Storage Change. 134 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.879 And now this week actually you know, the most successful 135 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:54.600 etf ever created, the black Rock Bitcoin etc. Have actually 136 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.199 launched on the London Storage Change And I find that 137 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.040 sort of quite cool, right because we actually made it 138 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.079 to a Tier one European stock exchange with a Kardano 139 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.959 r W, a product before black Rock did. But you know, 140 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.879 hands down still as I still think the asset managers 141 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.279 are starting to do some really innovation. Another example, and 142 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.639 that is we've been working with Franklin Templeton, which is 143 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.399 sort of the third largest, fourth largest asset manager in 144 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.560 the world, and they actually run ten different notes, So 145 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:23.439 they run a Bitcoin note in the Theium note, but 146 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:26.319 they also run a Cadano note. And Genning, the CEO there, 147 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.480 has you know, for a long time been you know, 148 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.279 tokenizing things sort of like for instance, the Benji which 149 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.720 is their money market fund and I think this, you know, 150 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:36.920 you've done some real numbers on it, and I actually 151 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.240 find that running decline registry on the blockchain actually can 152 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.439 cut cost and increase operation resilience. So I do think that, 153 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.160 you know, there's some real transformation happening right now in 154 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:50.240 the asset management space and less so in the banking space. 155 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:55.639 Absolutely. So let's double click on the tokenization happening on Cardano, 156 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.519 which is really great. You highlighted some great examples there. 157 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.399 How are you you interacting with these institutions who are 158 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:04.759 looking to tokenize and let's say they want to pick 159 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:09.079 Cardano the blockchain to you know, tokenize money market funds, 160 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:10.800 stocks and other assets. 161 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:14.800 So, I mean there's still a big aspect of pilots 162 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:18.000 and MVPs and parks right and I think what mainly 163 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.399 asset managers are looking at right now is to figuring 164 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:23.199 out if we can create a new settlement layer or 165 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.720 a new custodial layer, so basically changing the FMI because 166 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.759 there's a lot of extra fat on that infrastructure. There's 167 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:33.879 a lot of intermediaries. And I think with you know, 168 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:40.279 crypto and blockchain becoming you know, acceptable acceptable technologies, not 169 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.919 for everything, but it's getting there, right. It increases this 170 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:46.080 you know, if we can just you know, get a 171 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.799 one percent improvement, we can actually share that with our 172 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.399 clients and that actually shows in the performance and gives 173 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.080 us a better tracking era. And what we do very 174 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.480 specifically with the Karana Foundation is we help them with 175 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.480 the technical integration. So the Karana Foundation is actually the 176 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.120 one who built and maintains the tooling you need as 177 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.879 an institution to integrate with Kardano. Now you can run 178 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.360 completely native and build your own right, but you can 179 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:12.759 also run the supported tools from the Karana Foundation. So 180 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:15.399 we have an integration team working with about you know, 181 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.919 one hundred two hundred and fifty banks in exchanges and 182 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.200 asset managers on these types of integration, which also includes 183 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:25.039 custodians worldwide. The other thing we do is we help 184 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.320 them on the regulatory side. So we are very closely 185 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:30.960 anchored with our legal team, and we speak with the 186 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.120 European Parliament, we speak with the you know, the US regulators, 187 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:38.279 we speak with American regulators, we speak with ms I'm 188 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:42.360 here right now in Dubai speaking with Vara ADGM right, 189 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.159 So we work very very close with them and we 190 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.840 understand the current regulation. That means that we can help 191 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:52.279 them on the intersection between thread fire and blockchain and 192 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.320 bring them you know, an extra level of comforward. It 193 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.039 is true that they would like to go with their 194 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:58.679 own lawyers and they would like, you know, to have 195 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.559 their own teams doing that, but you can shortcut quite 196 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:03.840 a lot by using the knowledge from the Karana Foundation. 197 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.120 And then last, but not least, we give distribution, right 198 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.720 so we you know, when we actually going to Copenhagen 199 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.559 next week because we want a price launching a et 200 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:15.960 P as an exchange traded product together with United Nations 201 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.559 Human Tearing Crisis Organization, which is an alternative way to 202 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.320 basically give funding to ngngos who's looking for that in 203 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:26.399 this case for displaced people. So we also, you know, 204 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:30.279 we're quite innovative and do some financial engineering with you know, 205 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.240 partners and others to show the power of blockchain for good. 206 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:36.759 So it's just a couple of examples on how that works. 207 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.399 Yeah, that's really great. And then you mentioned regulations and uh, 208 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.840 you know, the card Owner Foundation joined the Micro Crypto Alliance. 209 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.679 Tell us about that and you know, working in the 210 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:48.480 EU space. 211 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.000 Yeah, so we've actually been part of also negotiating the 212 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:55.840 first you know, the first micro regime, right, which is 213 00:10:55.879 --> 00:11:00.679 the stable current policy for the European Parliament. And you know, 214 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.679 I feel quite strongly that actually the the intent of 215 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.440 this was amazing, but the implementation was not so good. 216 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.320 And that's what you see right now with the clarity 217 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.440 and the geniac which basically superseds and and creates your 218 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.480 huge growth, but all stability and some clarity on the 219 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.039 US side, where more on the European side due to 220 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:21.519 the implementation, And what basically has happened is that crypto 221 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:25.919 companies are basically running away from the European Union. And 222 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.639 that's a that's really that was not the intent, right. 223 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.960 The intent was to actually create certainty and create jobs 224 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.960 and create opportunities for the European Union, including you know, 225 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:39.240 adding some more to the captor markets at large, right, 226 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.559 because caviacter markets is a dollar based economy, right, and 227 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.879 there were some ideas that this could help on the 228 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.279 on the European So on the euroside. Now, US joining 229 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.559 the MICAH Alliance is really a big step because what 230 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.360 we found was that we were quite alone in these discussions. 231 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.200 So alone means we were alone from the protocol side, right, 232 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.559 so we were the own the protocol at the table 233 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.480 discussing that the rest was you know, the very large 234 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:09.000 stable coins and the very large, extremely regulated centralized exchanges, right, 235 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.919 And they basically said, yeah, well it's okay. We are 236 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.639 regulated in multiple jurisdictions, so everything is financial. That might 237 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:18.879 be true, right, But when we start going you know, 238 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.279 into DeFi, or we start going you know, along the 239 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:27.440 axis of financial engineering and blockchain, well not everything is 240 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:32.039 playing cod you know, financial markets. Joining the MECARE Alliance 241 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:34.639 for us is really a fantastic opportunity to not be 242 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:36.440 the only one at the table. And I think if 243 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.120 you look at it from a market cap perspective, you know, 244 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:42.480 the more market cap who participate in the MECARE Alliance 245 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.039 from a protocol level, who sits at the table and 246 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.919 can speak as adults and understand the current regulation, understand 247 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.039 the current financial market infrastructure, and can understand blockchain and 248 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:55.960 can push in a direction that we can still have 249 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.679 public permission as blockchains and we can still have experimentation 250 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:00.720 until we see how it goes. We don't have to 251 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:03.759 do everything as we do in capusal markets today, which 252 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:07.240 something can be done better cheapa and fast and still 253 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.240 protect the end consumers. This should be allowed, right. 254 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.440 Absolutely, and hopefully the EU can get the MICA regulation, 255 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.000 you know in a good place where, like you said, 256 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.840 companies are not leaving. I know here in the United States. 257 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:25.320 You know we're waiting for the Claritiact to pass. Are 258 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:29.480 you in the folks at the Cardina Foundation optimistic? You 259 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.720 know that we may see that pass, let's say, by 260 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.159 the end of the December ourself. 261 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.080 So I'm not very good with timelines when we talk 262 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.960 about politicians, but I do think that after I was 263 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.559 in Washington lately, right, and I was the pleasure of 264 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.360 being in the Parliament and also withsiting the Treasury and 265 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.639 meeting both sides of the isle, I do think this 266 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:52.480 will pass. That's my view, right, And but when I 267 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:53.080 just don't know. 268 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.399 So let's say it gets passed maybe end of year 269 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.000 or even Q one twenty twenty six, what would that 270 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.720 mean for the cardan of Foundation and the adoption of Cardona. 271 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.840 Do you feel that more US companies will be able 272 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:09.879 to start building faster and innovating on the Cardona blockchain. 273 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.759 Yeah, so we are already quite big in North America, right, 274 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:14.519 and I think what you will see she will just 275 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.799 see way more deployment and way more rollouts. So yeah, no, 276 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:21.480 I'm very positively optimistic that this will bring more transactions 277 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.320 on chain and will bring more economic opportunities to the 278 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:28.480 American population for utilizing systems like blockchain. So I'm very 279 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.039 optimistic about that well for sure. 280 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:32.279 Now I want to talk about some of the great 281 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.440 initiatives that are happening on the cardinal side of things, 282 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.759 and one is the Digital Product Passport. The DPP tell 283 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.000 us about this and what's the mission. 284 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.799 Yeah, So sometimes regulation enables innovation, and I think this 285 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.559 is one of those times. So this is basically a 286 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.240 piece of regulation coming out of the European Union which 287 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:57.960 basically says that any product which is sold or manufactured 288 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.639 in the European Union needs to have a so called 289 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.759 Digital Product passport. So this is a bit like you 290 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:05.639 know these small flyers you see when you buy a 291 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.960 piece of furniture, right, which basically says, you know, those 292 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:10.559 use these chemicals and this is how you assemble the furniture. 293 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.399 And you know this is you know the content of 294 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.240 the furniture, right, is it all wood or is the 295 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.360 plastic and so on? And for certain let's say countries, 296 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:20.840 you won't find a lot. You just find like two 297 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.799 pictures and this is how you put it together. And 298 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.200 others there quite far in terms of easy certification and 299 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.080 you know, child labor and so on. So what the 300 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:33.360 digital product passport really is is a very comprehensive guideline 301 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.759 or a piece of policy. Really who says the minimum 302 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.480 requirements for things produced in the European Union or sold 303 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.039 in the European Union is from the start of the 304 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.519 production to the end of the product lifetime. So if 305 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.639 you have a chair, for instance, it's not when the 306 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.399 company goes out of business, is when the chare no 307 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:57.200 longer exists. You need to support a digital manual or 308 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:01.440 product passport who basically describes also how you get rid 309 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.519 of it, so how you basically recycle it. And this 310 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.120 potentially can actually be a liability on your balance sheet. 311 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:08.840 So if you create a new company, right and you're 312 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.559 selling a physical product, you know in the European Union, 313 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.120 you know, who knows how long that can actually exist. 314 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.960 And if you're very good at producing, this might be generations, right, 315 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:20.720 But if you have your startup goes you know barey 316 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.320 up after a while, right, there's there's some liability and 317 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.639 the balance sheet because you need to maintain that digital 318 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.639 product passport, which means you need to have some money 319 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.639 for a cloud database to be running for as long 320 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.960 as the product runs. Right. And I think what we 321 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.440 sort of homed in on here is quite unique is 322 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:40.840 that what it requires in the world of today is 323 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.440 that many of these supply chains they have multiple contributors 324 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.240 from different companies. And if you want to have a 325 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:53.039 database where multiple companies contribute to the database, well, blockchain 326 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.840 is a pretty good hit, right. Secondly, due to the 327 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:01.159 fact that the community maintains the blockchain, right, not the business. Well, 328 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.200 basically you can base you can write off all that 329 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.359 liability because the blockchain will be maintain as in Kadano's 330 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.160 case favor right. So I think this is a you know, 331 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.440 there's some really good reasons why the digital product passport 332 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.359 could be a super opportunity for the blockchain based in 333 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.200 the European Union. 334 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.240 But do you feel also that the direction the world 335 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.759 is heading in where a lot of data and information 336 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.920 will be on the blockchain, that this type of data 337 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:30.200 and information tagged to products and services is actually helpful. 338 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.000 For example, let's say I want to buy a product 339 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:35.680 on Amazon. Maybe there's some sort of digital product ID 340 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.119 or passport or whatever you want to call it in 341 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:40.559 a dropped out dialogue box, and I can verify it 342 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.079 on the blockchain that it came from this region, it 343 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.400 was manufactured at this specific date. It didn't go through 344 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:49.680 any regions that are blacklisted, so to speak, it's not 345 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.960 a fake product. Do you feel that these things are 346 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:55.400 going to be added to products and services that people 347 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.079 can verify it and we can do it because of 348 00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:57.680 the blockchain. 349 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.039 I think some people would like that, right, But I 350 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:01.599 think a lot of people would like to have the 351 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:03.559 option to do that. Right. So it were very few 352 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.240 people who actually uses it and verifies it, but there'll 353 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.200 be more people who just like the idea that I 354 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.359 can do it if I need to write, And then 355 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.119 there will be some people who just goes after the 356 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:16.279 lowest price possible no matter what. Right, it's just a 357 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:20.319 it's a penny game, right. But I truly think that 358 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.480 when we look at the experience we had both with 359 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.480 you know, tokenizing wine, right, so putting the George and 360 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:27.759 wine on the blockchain, and suddenly they were selling in 361 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.599 countries where they've never done marketing. Because people buying George 362 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.400 and wine, which doesn't have the strongest brand, were able 363 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.680 to verify the story and the content of the wine 364 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.640 and have an external third party verification of this, it 365 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.839 suddenly sold wine and for instance Norway with no marketing right, 366 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.279 so the whole badge was sold out straight away. So 367 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.279 I do think there's a huge demand for it, and 368 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.079 I think as we the generations that start changing, I 369 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.240 think this demand will go up. The younger generations will 370 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.559 simply not accept, you know, to buy crap, and they 371 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:00.720 know the internet so well that they also know the 372 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.400 risk very well, so sometimes they will gamble on it 373 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:05.000 and other times if they have to pay the real 374 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.000 dollars for it, they actually want this. So I think 375 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.599 this is one of the cases where you know, it's 376 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.079 nice with this regulation because it creates, you know, an 377 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.000 opportunity for blockchain. But I think this opportunity was there 378 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.079 anyway on the table. 379 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.440 Yeah, that's a great point in regards to the future generation, 380 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.279 and you know how they may vi certain products like 381 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:28.359 wine and other types of merchandise and want that verifiability 382 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.960 and see the history and so forth. I know there's 383 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.559 certain things that I personally would want to do that 384 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.720 like wine and some other things, not everything, Like I 385 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.039 don't necessarily need to know if my chair was you know, 386 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.240 made at some place. It's just a chair, But my 387 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.079 wine and certain merchandise I would definitely want to verify. 388 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.440 I think you know, you know, we involve as humans, right. 389 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.359 Maybe another example we did on Kanana was we actually 390 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:55.640 tokenized the merchandise for the World Across Championship in the US. 391 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.559 I believe that was last year, right. And what was 392 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.640 quite unique about it is that actually has critical infrastructure 393 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.799 connected to it because the tickets were actually also part 394 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:06.759 of the t shirts and the you know, the bumber 395 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.079 jackets and so on. And can you imagine, you know, 396 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.119 if fifty thousand Americans that bought their tickets, they line 397 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.200 up to the stadium and suddenly they can't get in 398 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.039 because the blockchain is down. I mean, this is actually 399 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:20.079 a security concern, right. So one of the reasons why 400 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.240 it was done on Karana was that we could actually 401 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.000