Speaker 1: This episode may contain content of a graphic nature, including
Speaker 1: descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm Tanya,
Speaker 1: and together we are Crimes and Consequences, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Crimes and Consequences.
Speaker 2: I'm Tanya and I'm Tealia, my lovely co host. Thank you,
Speaker 2: and today's episode is about a school shooting. So I
Speaker 2: just want to warn everyone it happened quite a long
Speaker 2: time ago. But still before I get into the story,
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you're interested, we.
Speaker 1: Haven't figured exactly out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I am. I mean we're Generation X, so
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Speaker 1: Right, But you're getting better.
Speaker 2: I'm getting better. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, and you have any true crime to talk.
Speaker 2: About, yeah, I do, so I'm going to tell you
Speaker 2: about this story. This happened around five point thirty pm
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, December sixth, nineteen eighty nine. I'm at day.
Speaker 2: The cafe campus at the University of Montreal was busy
Speaker 2: as usual. It'd been a favorite spot for students, you know,
Speaker 2: going back forever how long because because it was really
Speaker 2: cold that day. It gets cold up in Montreal, especially
Speaker 2: in December. It was a nice place for students to gather.
Speaker 2: And it was the end of the semester. You know,
Speaker 2: it's early December.
Speaker 1: And everybody's studying. Yeah, area to study.
Speaker 2: And for some of them, like that day was their
Speaker 2: last day of classes before the holiday break. And suddenly
Speaker 2: the normal buzz of the cafe, Like they look outside
Speaker 2: and they see just people running, like students running.
Speaker 1: I just started, hundreds of them. I just start running. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They these people bust into the cafe. Now it's like chaos,
Speaker 2: and they discover that there's a gunman on campus, and
Speaker 2: that evening the world would find out that all fourteen
Speaker 2: victims were women.
Speaker 1: Oh, there were fourteen fourteen.
Speaker 2: Fourteen victims were women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know anything about.
Speaker 2: I know, I didn't know about it until obviously I
Speaker 2: was researching this one. But I didn't know that Montreal
Speaker 2: had this happened in their lovely city. I've been to Montreal.
Speaker 2: I'm it's not gorgeous anyway.
Speaker 1: And Windsor.
Speaker 2: I can't been to Windsor too in Toronto, but okay,
Speaker 2: so I digress. Around four pm that day, so about
Speaker 2: an hour and a half earlier, the shooter left his apartment.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to say his name until the
Speaker 2: end because he doesn't deserve it. He left wearing new
Speaker 2: work boots, a pair of jeans, a gray wind breaker,
Speaker 2: and a baseball cap. Inside his windbreaker he like on
Speaker 2: his waist he carried a hunting knife. Knife, yeah, knife,
Speaker 2: he had a gone in. The type of the type
Speaker 2: it is, like the name of it really doesn't matter,
Speaker 2: but it's the same type like swat teams use like
Speaker 2: it's a rifle, like a high powered rifle.
Speaker 1: Well, wouldn't that be a big gun? I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about it.
Speaker 2: It's a big gun.
Speaker 1: So where how's he carrying that around?
Speaker 2: Well, he had that and one hundred rounds were in
Speaker 2: a green garbage bag, which he carried to a car.
Speaker 2: You know, he leaves his apartment, he carries it to
Speaker 2: this car that he rented for the day. He drove
Speaker 2: to the university. There was a school on the university.
Speaker 2: It was called Eco Polytechnique in college. Yeah, like a college,
Speaker 2: and that's where like engineering students, so like students enrolled
Speaker 2: in like STEM type program. So he pays the parking atenant.
Speaker 2: He goes to ecoal Polytechnique, He pays the parking attendant
Speaker 2: and parks his car in a no parking zone and
Speaker 2: the car ended up being found like the next day.
Speaker 2: I know, it's getting towards the end of the day,
Speaker 2: so I'm thinking nobody's really monitoring like the no parking zone.
Speaker 1: But the fact like obviously he didn't mind if he
Speaker 1: got caught because he's parking in a parking lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no parking zone.
Speaker 2: I know, it doesn't make sense. So he's sitting, he
Speaker 2: gets out of his car and he ends up sitting
Speaker 2: in a highly visible spot outside the registrar's office. He
Speaker 2: sat there for some time. There were reports that people
Speaker 2: had seen him sitting there for upwards of thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: With his garbage bag.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, with the garbage bag, and he wasn't talking
Speaker 2: to anybody. He was just sort of scowling and he
Speaker 2: didn't make eye contact with anyone. A staff member at
Speaker 2: the registrar's office went over to him and said, you know,
Speaker 2: do you need anything. He didn't, and without replying to her,
Speaker 2: he stood up. So he must have been sitting he
Speaker 2: stood up being walked off, so that was kind of strange.
Speaker 1: The answer is no.
Speaker 2: The answer is no, and he leaves about five pm.
Speaker 2: The shooter begins climbing the steps to the second floor
Speaker 2: building and building that he goes in and this is
Speaker 2: where classes take place.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not the cafe.
Speaker 2: It's not the cafe, and he walks through the steel
Speaker 2: fire doors in room two thirty. Final presentations were being
Speaker 2: made for mechanical engineering students. They were taking place right
Speaker 2: at that time. He gets to the classroom door, he
Speaker 2: pulls his rifle out of the garbage bag and he
Speaker 2: lets the bag fall to the floor before he just
Speaker 2: walks confidently into this classroom with the gun, and it's
Speaker 2: about five to ten pm. There were two fourth year
Speaker 2: students giving a presentation on heat transfer at the front
Speaker 2: of the class. The shooter calmly walks up to the
Speaker 2: front of the class and he smiles at them. What
Speaker 2: No one like flinches, bats and I.
Speaker 1: Are Robert, who knows what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah right, They're just like, what the hell's going on?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: They didn't seem to react to the gun that he had.
Speaker 2: He was holding you, I know, what do you do? Like?
Speaker 2: Is this a joke? Right? Like? He's holding it in
Speaker 2: around yeah right, and says candy camera or something, right like,
Speaker 2: or one of those joke programs. So the lack of
Speaker 2: reaction that he gets irritates him, and he yells everybody
Speaker 2: stop everything. He then ordered that men, the men in
Speaker 2: the classroom stand on one side of the room and
Speaker 2: the women stand on the other side of the room.
Speaker 2: And even when he says this, nobody.
Speaker 1: Moves because they're just they're just shocked.
Speaker 2: They think, like, like we said, is this a prank?
Speaker 2: And somebody chuckles and this pissed him off. Chuckled. Somebody
Speaker 2: chuckled because I mean, I'm sure it was nervous it's me.
Speaker 2: It's me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody gets mad at you for laughing.
Speaker 2: I know, so I'm sure like he would be super
Speaker 2: pissed at me. It's a nervous laugh. So in response,
Speaker 2: he shoots twice into the ceiling, yelling, and now the
Speaker 2: students and the professor like they start to comply, So
Speaker 2: he orders the men to leave the room, and the
Speaker 2: women start. You know, he ordered the women to stay
Speaker 2: in the classroom. He like allows the men to leave,
Speaker 2: and he starts yelling, I want women. You're all a
Speaker 2: bunch of feminists and I hate feminists.
Speaker 1: Doesn't he know if the men leave, they're gonna call
Speaker 1: the police.
Speaker 2: Right, that's what I'm That's what I thought too, Right,
Speaker 2: that that would be I first thought. But sixty male
Speaker 2: students and two male professors leave the room.
Speaker 1: So it's a that's a big.
Speaker 2: It's a huge, Like, yeah, it's a huge classroom. And
Speaker 2: left behind are nine female students standing in the corner
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 1: Classroom like, thanks, guys, yeah.
Speaker 2: Thanks for bailing on us.
Speaker 1: But I'm not trying to be inut I know they
Speaker 1: didn't have the choice.
Speaker 2: No, they didn't. The shooter ordered the women to the
Speaker 2: back of the classroom, far from the front door and
Speaker 2: without any ability to escape now, and he asks them, quote,
Speaker 2: are you wondering why you're here? End quote. One of
Speaker 2: the students, her name was Annie Saint Arnault, fired back
Speaker 2: at him, who are you? And he replied saying he
Speaker 2: was a man against feminists and other women like them,
Speaker 2: women who he said had been taking employment opportunities from men.
Speaker 2: And another student pipes up, her name was Natalie Provost.
Speaker 2: She said, well, they're just women, you know, We're just
Speaker 2: women studying engineering and not necessarily feminists. And they weren't
Speaker 2: there to fight men, you know, and butt their jobs,
Speaker 2: to steal their jobs, like, we just want to study
Speaker 2: some engineering. And the shooter pushes back, saying, you're all women,
Speaker 2: you're going to be engineers. You're all a bunch of feminists.
Speaker 2: I hate feminists. He's all fired up about feminism. So
Speaker 2: Nadley looked into his eyes and she just saw that
Speaker 2: they were just dark, and he.
Speaker 1: Was no, there's no there's no getting through. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: that's empty.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was focused on what he was going to
Speaker 2: do and he wasn't going to listen to anyone. And
Speaker 2: now this is when the shooting begins. Thirty bullets rained
Speaker 2: upon these night women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, weather lined up while.
Speaker 2: They're lined up. Francis Cretien and I'm going to struggle
Speaker 2: through these French names. So Francis Katine. She was a survivor,
Speaker 2: and this is what she had to say. She said,
Speaker 2: quote the rest is sort of in slow motion in
Speaker 2: my head. I threw myself on the ground and I
Speaker 2: turned around. At times I could hear everything, at other
Speaker 2: times it was just noise. End quote. Yeah, she was
Speaker 2: other women fell on top of her and they were dead.
Speaker 2: And at that moment, you know, they all start to
Speaker 2: realize he's not shooting blanks, Like this isn't a joke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was horrible.
Speaker 2: I know the shooter spotted. The shooter spotted another woman
Speaker 2: who did survive. Her name was jose Martin, and Josie
Speaker 2: said he quote he had a smile on his face.
Speaker 2: He seemed very proud of himself. It's as if he
Speaker 2: was in a dream and everything was going according to plan.
Speaker 2: End quote. Of the nine women in this classroom, three
Speaker 2: had been seriously injured but survived. There are six classmates
Speaker 2: which were the other six classmates which were Helene Colgan
Speaker 2: Netlie Crow two, Crow two Barbara Daignault, Anne Marie le
Speaker 2: maay Sonya Peltier, and Annie Saint Arnault. They were the
Speaker 2: first six victims of this shooter.
Speaker 1: They were just slaughtered, like, yeah, they were lined up
Speaker 1: to be slaughtered. That makes me really sad.
Speaker 2: So he shoots everyone, and I'm guessing he's assuming everyone
Speaker 2: is dead, and he leaves the classroom. But before he leaves,
Speaker 2: he stops and he writes shit on one of the
Speaker 2: notebooks that's laying on one of the desks. I know,
Speaker 2: it's bizarre.
Speaker 1: I always wonder when you hear about like mass shootings.
Speaker 1: They will shoot lots of people, and yet there's survivors,
Speaker 1: and you hear him being shot multiple times stuff, and
Speaker 1: you think, how, like how did so many survive?
Speaker 2: I think it's yeah, part of you know, I always
Speaker 2: think about like the people who say, oh, I played dead, you.
Speaker 1: Know, And I mean he only killed two thirds, one
Speaker 1: third survived.
Speaker 2: One third survived. Yeah, absolutely, I know.
Speaker 1: And he had all the power and all the control.
Speaker 2: I mean, he could have killed everyone, like you said,
Speaker 2: he could have just all sixty people, sixty seventy people
Speaker 2: in that classroom.
Speaker 1: But anyway, anyway.
Speaker 2: Some of the men who'd been let go in the classroom.
Speaker 2: They ran to get help, but there were still several
Speaker 2: that were standing outside the door of the building and
Speaker 2: they were warning people like don't go inside. Those men
Speaker 2: that they they're the ones that heard the gun being shot.
Speaker 2: They heard the women screaming, and when the shooter left
Speaker 2: the classroom, he pointed. The shooter pointed his rifle at
Speaker 2: those men that were still in the corridor and they
Speaker 2: backed up against the wall, which allowed the gunmen to
Speaker 2: just continue walking down the hallway like he did not
Speaker 2: attend in no, he wasn't reaching the photo copiers which
Speaker 2: were in room two twenty nine. Again, into the room
Speaker 2: and there was a man that was injured and a
Speaker 2: woman they survived. And approaching these two, he ran into
Speaker 2: another woman and shot her and injured her. She made
Speaker 2: it out alive. He goes to another classroom. Next, he
Speaker 2: goes to classroom number two twenty eight, and this class
Speaker 2: was in session, so he scopes the students out and
Speaker 2: he finds a woman like, you.
Speaker 1: Haven't been I'm sorry, they have no no, no, the
Speaker 1: police no, no, police take forever to show up.
Speaker 2: And I'll talk about that later, but I'm imagining he's
Speaker 2: poking in like a window on the door because he
Speaker 2: doesn't go into this classroom, but he sees a woman student,
Speaker 2: a female student sitting in the very back. He takes
Speaker 2: aim with his gun and he attempts to fire, pulling
Speaker 2: the trigger twice, but it doesn't shoot. So he realizes
Speaker 2: he's out of bullets. He had a few, Yeah, thank god.
Speaker 2: He has a few steps away to the emergency stairway.
Speaker 2: There was a student that by him, and hears him saying,
Speaker 2: like shit, I'm out of bullets. But the student didn't
Speaker 2: pay the shooter any The student didn't pay the shooter
Speaker 2: any mind, and he's not on their right rifle right there.
Speaker 1: Like, you're walking in the hallway, I know there's a
Speaker 1: guy down there. You're on your phone.
Speaker 2: I mean we're looking at you. No, we're looking at
Speaker 2: this though from our twenty twenty four view points. So
Speaker 2: I miss in nineteen eighty nine, but.
Speaker 1: I could see if he was on a cell phone
Speaker 1: right before.
Speaker 2: That was yeah, this is before that. So the student
Speaker 2: continues on his way. He was trying to get to
Speaker 2: the photo copy room. Then you know, it starts to
Speaker 2: dawn on him, like wait a minute, what the He
Speaker 2: turns around and he sees the shooter raise the rifle
Speaker 2: like toward him. The gun went off and the student
Speaker 2: was barely missed, very narrowly by the bullet. And he
Speaker 2: starts running toward the escalators now that are leading to
Speaker 2: the cafeteria.
Speaker 1: And it's a guy.
Speaker 2: It's a guy. He didn't get shot. Classroom to twenty
Speaker 2: eight that I told you he was peeking in that
Speaker 2: was adjacent to a server room where computers were held.
Speaker 2: At the time of the attack. As it's going on,
Speaker 2: Gibe Brunal was working in the server room with a colleague.
Speaker 2: He hears these strange sound, strange sounds, but the computers
Speaker 2: surrounding them were really loud, so the noises were really
Speaker 2: kind of difficult to distinguish, like not necessarily sounding like
Speaker 2: rifle fire. So at some point then a student rushes
Speaker 2: in and yells that there's a shooter in the school.
Speaker 2: A professor who followed close behind the students, and the
Speaker 2: gunman had opened the door to the classroom and tried
Speaker 2: to shoot, but the gun didn't work. So I'm thinking
Speaker 2: this is that classroom two twenty eight. Brunald told the
Speaker 2: students to come inside and come into the computer room,
Speaker 2: the server room and one of them had the presence
Speaker 2: of mind to lock the door that was leading to
Speaker 2: the hallway. When the shooter returned and noticed that the
Speaker 2: door was now locked, he began shooting at it. Bruna
Speaker 2: was afraid of what would happen if he made it in,
Speaker 2: and he said, quote, that's when it occurred to me
Speaker 2: to make everyone crawl under the false floor. False floor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like their floor. Like the computer had massive cords. So
Speaker 2: it's this massive server room and the chords ran under
Speaker 2: the floor.
Speaker 1: How do you like the floor's got to be solid enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and people to carry that way, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a way to get down there.
Speaker 2: And it was, but it was only eighteen inches deep probably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you have problems, people can go underneath it. Okay,
Speaker 1: my eighteen inches high, so I would have I have.
Speaker 2: I know. So I'm not sure exactly how many people
Speaker 2: were crammed into this space, but he also says, in
Speaker 2: such circumstances, you managed to squeeze in right.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, my heart is raising right now.
Speaker 2: And the door held, the locked door held, and Ronal
Speaker 2: and his colleague, Oh, there were eight students from that
Speaker 2: classroom who squeezed in there and a lecturer, and they're
Speaker 2: laying there and they're listening and they hear shots being
Speaker 2: fired outside. When the shooter walks away from Room two
Speaker 2: twenty eight, he continues down the hallway and that's where
Speaker 2: he'd shot into the copier room. Then he bumps into
Speaker 2: a woman coming down the escalator and she was on
Speaker 2: her way to the server room. He shot her, but
Speaker 2: she managed to get up and run to the emergency
Speaker 2: stairway and she found a place to hide on the
Speaker 2: fifth floor. Instead of following her, he made his way
Speaker 2: to a counter where he spotted a woman hiding underneath.
Speaker 2: He shot toward her twice and he missed both times.
Speaker 1: What wow, good, Yeah, he missed her. Wow.
Speaker 2: Now it's been less than fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is all very yeah, very quick. But
Speaker 1: the police should be there by now.
Speaker 2: They should be there by now. And so since it's began,
Speaker 2: it's been fifteen minutes. News was spreading throughout the building.
Speaker 2: By the time the gunman reached the Office of Financial Services,
Speaker 2: they had just been informed of the attack, and a
Speaker 2: woman named Maurice Legangnier had thank you, had just put
Speaker 2: on her jacket and her boots to leave for the day.
Speaker 2: The shooter spotted her and they both hurried toward the door.
Speaker 2: Maurice was fighting to lock it and the gunman was
Speaker 2: fighting to be able to take a shot to her.
Speaker 2: She succeeded, but there was a small window next to
Speaker 2: the door. The shooter shoots through the window and Maurice
Speaker 2: is wounded and she would eventually pass away on the
Speaker 2: floor of her office. And she unfortunately was pregnant with
Speaker 2: her first child. Stop so after he kills Maurice Maurice,
Speaker 2: the shooter returned to the escalator and goes down to
Speaker 2: the cafeteria, which is on the first floor. There's about
Speaker 2: one hundred people in the cafeteria. The noise, there's noise,
Speaker 2: it's noisy. Everybody's confused, and the manager of the cafeteria
Speaker 2: begins evacuating people out out the service door, but the
Speaker 2: shooter found his way in and aimed at a woman
Speaker 2: near the kitchen. He took a shot and he killed
Speaker 2: Barbara Maria Kluznik Vidovich Vidovich, And as people begin to
Speaker 2: panic and run, the gunman took a few more shots
Speaker 2: injuring one other person. Then he slowly made his way
Speaker 2: to the other end of the cafeteria where he spotted
Speaker 2: Genevieve Bergan and Anne Marie Edward at the polyparty room,
Speaker 2: which was a storage closet in the back where a
Speaker 2: v equipment was stored in other items. He shot and
Speaker 2: killed both of these women before exiting the cafeteria.
Speaker 1: I'm so pissed right now.
Speaker 2: Genevieve and Anne Marie would be the last victims to
Speaker 2: be found when the police finally did like a final
Speaker 2: sweep of the building.
Speaker 1: And they were probably what were they hiding there? Like,
Speaker 1: I would think, m m, they were right, Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: that would be a safe place.
Speaker 2: You would think. The government then takes the escalator, which
Speaker 2: now is no longer moving. It gets turned off. At
Speaker 2: some point, he goes up to the third floor. There
Speaker 2: were several people on the third floor still and he
Speaker 2: quickly begins shooting, injuring two men and a woman. Around
Speaker 2: five twenty five, the shooter arrives in classroom three eleven.
Speaker 1: Professor, they're not active in that classroom, temmy, that yeah,
Speaker 1: doing a lecture.
Speaker 2: They are doing their final presentations as well. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't this building.
Speaker 1: Was wouldn't have happened now. Cell phones people.
Speaker 2: Texting, oh yeah, yeah, people would have been warned, so
Speaker 2: Professor Jean Paul Bellion. It was a class of mechanical
Speaker 2: and thermal characterization of materials. This is why I'm not
Speaker 2: an engineer, because I have no idea what I just read.
Speaker 2: They're in the middle of their final presentations as I say,
Speaker 2: and three students are at the front of the classroom
Speaker 2: in the middle of presenting their project. One was Maurice Leclair.
Speaker 2: She was on stage when the shooter barged in, ordering
Speaker 2: the men to leave the room, just as he had
Speaker 2: done in that first classroom, and he immediately shot her
Speaker 2: and then turns his guns on the students that are
Speaker 2: in the first row. Someone yelled get down, leading a
Speaker 2: handful of students to fall to the floor while others
Speaker 2: attempted to escape out the back door. Maud Hevernick was
Speaker 2: among those trying to escape. The shooter saw her, took
Speaker 2: aim and shot several fatal bullets into her. Taking advantage
Speaker 2: of the gunman's focus on the back of the room,
Speaker 2: several students made a rush to the door in the
Speaker 2: front of the classroom. One was Michelle Richard. She was
Speaker 2: following her boyfriend at the door when she was spotted
Speaker 2: by the shooter killed with a single bullet to the back.
Speaker 2: Then the shooter spotted several students and professor Professor belliong
Speaker 2: lying between rows of tables that filled the room, trying
Speaker 2: to hide from the shooter, and he bent down to
Speaker 2: see who was on the floor. He found four women
Speaker 2: on the floor and he shot one after the other.
Speaker 2: Annie Turcotte died and the three other women were injured.
Speaker 2: There was another woman under the tables who had short hair,
Speaker 2: and she was ignored, so.
Speaker 1: He maybe thought she was a man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe thought she was a man. Didn't recognize her
Speaker 2: as a girl. The gunman exchanged the magazine and his rifle,
Speaker 2: so he reloads. He climbs on top of one of
Speaker 2: the tables that's in the back of the room, and
Speaker 2: he starts walking from table to table, continuing to shoot
Speaker 2: until he made his way to the front where Maurice
Speaker 2: Leclair was laying. She was severely injured and she was
Speaker 2: moaning and begging for help. The gunman then pulls out
Speaker 2: the hunting knife.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: On his waist. Serious, serious, and he stabbed her three times.
Speaker 2: Then he put his knife, two backs of bullets, and
Speaker 2: his baseball cap on the professor's desk and sitting on
Speaker 2: the stage. He took off his jacket, wrapped it around
Speaker 2: the barrel of the gun, exclaimed, oh shit, and shot
Speaker 2: himself in the head and he dies on a It's
Speaker 2: now five twenty eight, so he just he kills himself. Yep,
Speaker 2: kills himself right there, Professor beell young. He stands up slowly.
Speaker 2: He tells the students that are still in the room
Speaker 2: to leave through the door in the back, like he's
Speaker 2: trying to, you know, tell him, yeah, calm everybody down,
Speaker 2: you know, like okay. He doesn't look at the stage.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to see, but he stays and he
Speaker 2: walks around the room. He finds his four of his
Speaker 2: female students dead and another severely injured.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: Trying to reassure the injured student, he walked back and
Speaker 2: forth between her and the hallway, keeping an eye out
Speaker 2: for help. But no one's where's police, Where's not even
Speaker 2: like an ambulance, nothing, But no one now knows that
Speaker 2: the shooter's dead, so you know, they okay, but again
Speaker 2: there's nobody And it's been like a half an hour
Speaker 2: twenty minutes maybe since the shooting began.
Speaker 1: That happened, and yeah, less than thirty minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The three injured women that were in room two
Speaker 2: thirty where the shooting began was Josie Martin, Francis Critian,
Speaker 2: and Nadley Provost. They hadn't moved at that point. They
Speaker 2: were still injured, they were still alive. Several people had
Speaker 2: thought there had to be more than one shooter. Like
Speaker 2: eventually people starts, he's all over the place. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: all over the place. He's on the third floor, he's
Speaker 2: on the fifth floor, he's down on the tie. Yeah.
Speaker 2: None of the three women that were injured, and that
Speaker 2: none of these three women realize that they that not
Speaker 2: only I mean, they realize they're injured, but they don't
Speaker 2: feel safe enough to move yet.
Speaker 1: Oh hell, I would play dead. All yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: care how long till the police came.
Speaker 2: Right right, I am dead And Natley attempted to get
Speaker 2: up to get help, and she realized she'd been shot
Speaker 2: several times in her legs, so she just couldn't couldn't move.
Speaker 2: Just a few minutes later, the door opened and several
Speaker 2: students looking for an emergency exit came running in. Then
Speaker 2: two more entered, men looking for women they had to
Speaker 2: leave behind when they were told to get out of
Speaker 2: the classroom. Seeing the injuries to their classmates, they ran
Speaker 2: to get help, and at that point, no one has
Speaker 2: seen a police officer or a paramedic enter the building,
Speaker 2: while at the same time, those attempting to call for
Speaker 2: emergency services weren't able to get through because of the
Speaker 2: number of calls that were being made. One of the
Speaker 2: people attempting to call. His name was Louis Corville. He
Speaker 2: was the director of the Equal Polytechnique, and he said, quote,
Speaker 2: through the window, I could see hundreds of students in
Speaker 2: their shirts pour out the doors because they didn't put
Speaker 2: their jackets on. It's winter, he said, pour out the
Speaker 2: doors and jump over the snowbanks end quote. He had
Speaker 2: heard gunshots from his office, not knowing until later that
Speaker 2: those are the shots that killed Maurice Legging. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, if you have a university the police camp,
Speaker 1: there's got to be a police department relatively closed. I
Speaker 1: mean a Michigan State, Yeah it was. I mean you're
Speaker 1: on campus police, yeah, and there's campus police. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not blaming the police, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah that there I would think that twenty minutes is
Speaker 2: an awfully long time to respond to some sort of emergency,
Speaker 2: and I will get into it. So the Corner Report
Speaker 2: came out in May of nineteen ninety and included details
Speaker 2: of the events, explaining why help took so long to
Speaker 2: reach the school that day. The first call came in.
Speaker 2: It was five to twelve pm in the evening, and
Speaker 2: the operator attempted to forward the call to police dispatch,
Speaker 2: but encountered technical difficulties what making him unable to transfer
Speaker 2: the call? What this was due to new procedures having
Speaker 2: been implemented in a transition from paper notes used to
Speaker 2: communicate messages between the operators in dispatch to using a
Speaker 2: computer system.
Speaker 1: Well then just do a paper note, I know.
Speaker 2: And the new system wasn't quite working. Yeah the fuck.
Speaker 1: We're talking about like a nine to one one system here.
Speaker 2: And even more frustrating is that the emergency services like
Speaker 2: where the calls come in, were in the room right
Speaker 2: next door to police dispatch in the same building. They
Speaker 2: could have just easily, like you said, written a note.
Speaker 1: Don't even need to do a paper note.
Speaker 2: No, like, hey, there's something shit. The second call received
Speaker 2: was from a security guard i campus who called after
Speaker 2: being alerted by a professor that quote, an armed individual
Speaker 2: is harassing students in room two thirty. This call was
Speaker 2: sent to the hospital who dispatched ambulances, but they didn't
Speaker 2: seem to know the address to the Equal Polytechnique that's
Speaker 2: on the University of Montreal campus.
Speaker 1: And why would you send an ambulance for harassment. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I know, like, I'm sure there's some lessons learned.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's some big lessons learned. The new computer system
Speaker 2: didn't have the specific address in the database, so they
Speaker 2: were asking everyone who was calling in about the attack
Speaker 2: for the address, which slowed down the arrival of the ambulances.
Speaker 2: About five sixteen, the police are finally dispatched to the school.
Speaker 2: So four minutes.
Speaker 1: That's not that bad.
Speaker 2: That's not too bad.
Speaker 1: That's not bad. I'm not going to blame them.
Speaker 2: That's not bad. However, the incident reported was given a
Speaker 2: code associated with hostage situations, not a shooter. It was
Speaker 2: said that quote, a suspect with an armed rifle is
Speaker 2: holding twenty women as hostages in a classroom on the
Speaker 2: second floor and has fired in the air end quote.
Speaker 1: I mean coo, okay, I don't I mean, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: There's a difference hostage shooter, I guess, or somebody people
Speaker 1: hostage and firing a gun in the air. I guess.
Speaker 2: Though in a hostage situation, I think police are hoping
Speaker 2: that they haven't shot anybody yet and maybe they can
Speaker 2: get everybody out alive, as opposed to if you've shot
Speaker 2: somebody already, and I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like it is.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not a trained professional. I'm not going to judge.
Speaker 1: I'm done doudging.
Speaker 2: Additionally, yeah, I know. Additionally, this is the dispatcher gave
Speaker 2: the police the address of twenty five hundred Edward Mont
Speaker 2: Petit Boulevard, without specifying the incident was taking place at
Speaker 2: the Equal Polytechnique. Two police cruisers hurry to get over
Speaker 2: to help, and they end up at the student dorms
Speaker 2: that were at twenty five hundred Edward Mont Petit Boulevard,
Speaker 2: and now it's five nineteen. It takes another two minutes
Speaker 2: for them to get to the correct place. Once the
Speaker 2: first ambulance arrived, injured students approached seeking help. While they
Speaker 2: were coming out to receive aid, no one was going
Speaker 2: in though no police the police were beginning to arrive
Speaker 2: in greater numbers and establishing a perimeter for the hostage
Speaker 2: situation that they were dispatched to theirs injured people up
Speaker 2: right right the perimeter would be hundreds of meters away
Speaker 2: from the building per protocol, and no one was allowed
Speaker 2: in the building. With a lack of communication and coordination
Speaker 2: between the police officers and the fact that emergency services
Speaker 2: didn't know what was going on regarding the size and
Speaker 2: the scope of this massacre, they had difficulty knowing how
Speaker 2: many ambulances to sound or how many personnel were needed. Finally,
Speaker 2: at five point twenty five PM, a student's calls transferred
Speaker 2: directly to the police, giving information on gunshots and injuries.
Speaker 2: At five point twenty six, another student described in detail
Speaker 2: the look of the shooter. A minute later after that,
Speaker 2: another student is granted permission to pull the fire alarm,
Speaker 2: leading to eight fire trucks arriving.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that right.
Speaker 2: Pulling the fire alarm. Eventually, with all the calls coming
Speaker 2: in reporting gunshots, some police suggest going into the building,
Speaker 2: but those in charge decided to wait until additional officers
Speaker 2: showed up. The coroner's report concluded quote. In that moment,
Speaker 2: no intervention strategy is underway, nor is their strategy about
Speaker 2: to be nor is their strategy about to be implemented
Speaker 2: or even formulated. End quote. This protocol prevented all first
Speaker 2: responders from providing aid to the injured inside the school. However,
Speaker 2: there was a young man inside the school. He was
Speaker 2: a student there, but he also happened to work as
Speaker 2: a paramedic, so he needed classes that day. And that
Speaker 2: young man went from person to person trying to care
Speaker 2: for everyone that he came across, and he stayed.
Speaker 1: To help bless them.
Speaker 2: At five thirty six pm, the police received the information
Speaker 2: that the shooter has committed suicide and they were authorized
Speaker 2: to go in the building. Professor Bellion sought them out
Speaker 2: and he led them to room three eleven, where the
Speaker 2: shooter was laying dead. Finally, at five point forty five,
Speaker 2: the medical emergency team walked in through the doors, and
Speaker 2: even though they'd been outside for about twenty one minutes,
Speaker 2: at that point, when the police and security staff finally
Speaker 2: walked through the building, it gave the students inside the
Speaker 2: knowledge that it was safe to come out, because a
Speaker 2: lot of them still don't.
Speaker 1: Know right Oh, this is just chaos.
Speaker 2: I know, it's complete chaos.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The group that had hid in the false floor, the
Speaker 2: server room, they'd been in that floor for about forty
Speaker 2: minutes now, and the employee brunal. He stated. Quote at
Speaker 2: one point the shots stopped. Then through the PA system,
Speaker 2: someone told us to evacuate the school. Slowly walking, not running.
Speaker 2: We came out of the hole. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: How do you know if that person's legit?
Speaker 2: I know, right, Oh my god, you're right. I didn't
Speaker 2: even think of that. Oh, he said. There was so
Speaker 2: much blood on the second floor that it was hard
Speaker 2: to make our way out, and we saw so many
Speaker 2: injured end quote. It wasn't until six two pm that
Speaker 2: the first severely injured person was evacuated, and it would
Speaker 2: take nearly forty minutes before every victim had been transported
Speaker 2: to the hospital. Maurice Legging Yeer, she was the one
Speaker 2: that had been shot in her office. Remember she was pregnant.
Speaker 2: She was initially found alive with the door locked. It
Speaker 2: had to be forced open. Police officer Carol Billdeaux said, quote,
Speaker 2: Maurice was lying on the ground unconscious. She was severely injured.
Speaker 2: I talked to her, but she didn't react. I took pulse.
Speaker 2: I waited for help. It was crazy. We couldn't send
Speaker 2: messages out there are there were so many messages coming in.
Speaker 2: I held her arm and stayed with her until she passed.
Speaker 2: It didn't take very long. Quote. At least she wasn't alone.
Speaker 1: The gunman, This tell me who is now?
Speaker 2: Yes, his name is Mark Lapine. He was found of
Speaker 2: a suicide note in his pocket. And Mark Lapine that's
Speaker 2: his name. He had changed his name. I'm not even
Speaker 2: gonna really go into his background because really doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: But it was his name that he changed it to
Speaker 2: when he became older. So he wrote it in French,
Speaker 2: so translated to English. I'm sure that there's going to
Speaker 2: be some bastardization of the original French translation. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: forgive me if there's any mistakes. This is what he wrote. Quote.
Speaker 2: Would you believe that my suicide today December sixth, nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine is not because the money problems. I waited
Speaker 2: until I exhausted my financial means, even refusing jobs, but
Speaker 2: for political reasons, because I have decided to send the
Speaker 2: feminists who have always ruined my life to their maker.
Speaker 2: For seven years, life has brought me no joy and
Speaker 2: being totally carefree, I have decided to put an end
Speaker 2: to those bad tempered women, even if the mad killer
Speaker 2: epitaph will be attributed to me by the media. I
Speaker 2: consider myself a rational intellectual, only that only the arrival
Speaker 2: of the grim Reaper has forced to take extreme acts.
Speaker 2: For why continue living if it's only to please the government?
Speaker 2: Being rather backward looking by nature except for science, the
Speaker 2: feminists have always enraged me. They want to keep the
Speaker 2: advantages of women, like cheaper insurance, extended maternity leave, preventative leave,
Speaker 2: while seizing for themselves those of men the advantages. Thus,
Speaker 2: it's an obvious truth that if the Olympic Games removed
Speaker 2: men women distinctions, there would be women only in graceful events.
Speaker 2: It's being very sexist here, Oh my god. So the
Speaker 2: feminists are not fighting to remove that barrier. They are
Speaker 2: so opportunistic they do not neglect to profit from the
Speaker 2: knowledge accumulated by men through the ages. They always try
Speaker 2: to misrepresent them every time they can. Thus, the other
Speaker 2: day I heard they were honoring the Canadian men and
Speaker 2: women who fought at the front lines during the World Wars.
Speaker 2: How can you explain that since women were not authorized
Speaker 2: to go to the front line. Will we hear of
Speaker 2: Caesar's female legions and female galley slaves, who, of course
Speaker 2: took up fifty percent of the ranks of history though
Speaker 2: they never existed. End quote. The suicide number or the
Speaker 2: suicide note includes a list of ninety names and phone
Speaker 2: numbers of women he'd identified as feminists, stating the list
Speaker 2: was of women who quote nearly died today. The lack
Speaker 2: of time because I started too late, has allowed these
Speaker 2: radical feminists to survive. End quote. The final line of
Speaker 2: the note, I'm not even going to pronounce it in French,
Speaker 2: but it means either the die has been cast or
Speaker 2: there's no turning back, which is a similar meaning.
Speaker 1: You fucking hate him.
Speaker 2: I know, what a nut job.
Speaker 1: So don't know if he had some paranoid personality disorder
Speaker 1: or was developing some sort of paranoid what I mean,
Speaker 1: what I knows? Who did?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: I know? Like happened what you said that years ago?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Several What was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like yeah, you're right, like they what happened? He's
Speaker 2: been feeling this for several years.
Speaker 1: I don't even need to take time off for maternity
Speaker 1: lead because they you ever had a baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he hasn't. I mean I would gladly
Speaker 2: have traded you. You'd be pregnant and I know right,
Speaker 2: no things. Yeah. It was until nine pm that the
Speaker 2: news began to report that all the victims of this
Speaker 2: massacre were women. In the French language, which is the
Speaker 2: official language of the side, yes, words you know. In
Speaker 2: French words have masculine and feminine meaning, so like some
Speaker 2: words are feminine and some words are masculine. Yeah, like Spanish.
Speaker 2: And the bias of the culture there like in the
Speaker 2: news reports was made clear when the Minister of Education
Speaker 2: offered his deepest condolences to the families of the etudients,
Speaker 2: which is the masculine form of the words students. Other
Speaker 2: leaders went on to offer condolences using words like victims, youth,
Speaker 2: and loved ones. No one spoke of the fact they
Speaker 2: were all women. None acknowledged the statements of the gunmen,
Speaker 2: nor the words in the suicide note. Many journalists assigned
Speaker 2: to work on this case were men. The fact that
Speaker 2: reporter Shelley Page noticed it would make clear the degree
Speaker 2: her bosses didn't trust her coverage and the anxiety about
Speaker 2: sending a young a young woman to cover the carnage
Speaker 2: surrounding a massacre of young women was palatable. Instead, it
Speaker 2: was addressed as a concern about the young reporter's ability
Speaker 2: to be a objective. In the days after the shooting,
Speaker 2: Natalie Provost she had she was she had been shot,
Speaker 2: and she'd been hospitalized with her injuries, and she heard
Speaker 2: men on the radio supporting the shooter's actions. After hearing this, yeah,
Speaker 2: after hearing this, I'm sure she was off, fucking fired out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she decides to meet with journalists in her hospital room.
Speaker 1: She pissed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's pissed, feeling it's necessary. As a survivor of
Speaker 2: the shooting, also a member of the Polytechnique student Association
Speaker 2: and having a seat on the board of the school,
Speaker 2: she felt like she needed to be heard. So during
Speaker 2: the short press conference from her hospital bed, she simply said,
Speaker 2: quote to all the young women in Quebec who are
Speaker 2: thinking about studying engineering, I mean asking you to consider
Speaker 2: this career with as much enthusiasm as you did before Wednesday.
Speaker 2: End quote. Yeah. She also said, in response to those
Speaker 2: looking for anyone to blame other than the gunman, she said, quote,
Speaker 2: there's only one culprit and he's dead end.
Speaker 1: Quote, what about his parents?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not even gonna get into it. Okay, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. So female columnists came out in the following
Speaker 2: days with scathing analysis of the events. There was just
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that went on that probably really
Speaker 2: took the focus off of the victims. I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, they were are. I mean, it kind of
Speaker 2: minimized initially, the whole culture kind of minimized that the
Speaker 2: victims were all women.
Speaker 1: So well, in the end, they are victims, yes, I
Speaker 1: mean yes, but I get your point. The reason why
Speaker 1: they were victims is because they were female, right, And.
Speaker 2: I know he shot he shot a few mounds.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I do know that. I do recognize that. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's important, and I think it's important to note that's
Speaker 2: what his focus was.
Speaker 1: I mean, he wanted people to know how anti feminist
Speaker 1: he was. So I don't know, maybe he doesn't deserve
Speaker 1: the word to be spread.
Speaker 2: That's true. So the day after the shooting, the mayor
Speaker 2: of Montreal, his name was Jean dor He held a
Speaker 2: press conference. He directly called out the prejudice of the killer,
Speaker 2: and he openly cried when speaking to reporters something that's
Speaker 2: very rare with public figures, and even less so for
Speaker 2: male public figures. He personally knew Genevieve Bergeron, whose mom
Speaker 2: was a city council member, and he knew her very well.
Speaker 2: Since the shooting happened, there was a study of security
Speaker 2: at the school which identified gaps, obviously indicating that if
Speaker 2: the gunman hadn't decided to stop when he did and
Speaker 2: killed himself, he likely could have continued unimpeded for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 2: until he ran out of bullets.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: The security system around the campus was completely redone, and
Speaker 2: the emergency phone system became It removed the need for
Speaker 2: addresses to be exchanged at all. I think it's just automatic.
Speaker 2: The approach proved successful because there were future campus shootings
Speaker 2: copycat YEP in nineteen ninety two and two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: and the speed of emergency response has taken priority.
Speaker 1: And we are not police bashing.
Speaker 2: No, you're all no, it's the system, and.
Speaker 1: It's I think it's eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the culture. It's nineteen eighty nine. Like I
Speaker 2: mentioned before, you know, you don't think if it's never happened,
Speaker 2: you know, you don't think like, oh my god, it's
Speaker 2: a school shooting or something like that. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think we're all very aware of it now.
Speaker 1: It was just a shit show. Yeah, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think they knew how to respond. And you know, the
Speaker 1: whole idea of not mentioning they're all female, I do
Speaker 1: think is wrong. I want to point that out. It
Speaker 1: is wrong, But you know, I think it would It
Speaker 1: is important that they should probably they should have said.
Speaker 1: That should have been the whole point, and to help
Speaker 1: people like him learn like, yeah, yeah, because feminis Yes,
Speaker 1: they're not whatever you think, they're not taking jobs, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lesson to be learned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's lesson to be learned, because it's obviously a
Speaker 2: deeper cultural right issue at that point that he was experiencing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I mean, yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1: It's just hard to believe that high officials wouldn't even
Speaker 1: acknowledge that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I wouldn't fly these days, No, it would
Speaker 2: not know. People would be all fucking up in arms.
Speaker 2: Gun control became a top priority in the years following
Speaker 2: this Montreal massacre. The shooter when he got his guns,
Speaker 2: he had gone to the Montreal headquarters of Quebec Provincial
Speaker 2: Police to get an application form for aires arm firearms
Speaker 2: Acquisition certificate. I'm sorry, maybe troubled talking. He went there
Speaker 2: on August twenty ninth, nineteen eighty nine, so a few
Speaker 2: months before the shooting. Six weeks later he was issued
Speaker 2: his certificate. That's when he went shopping at a sporting
Speaker 2: goods store. On November twenty first, he went to the
Speaker 2: store one last time and purchased the rifle he would
Speaker 2: use during the massacre. There were also many gun laws
Speaker 2: passed by the legislature concerning background tracks.
Speaker 1: Did they even allow guns in Canada?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't. I don't know, do they. I don't
Speaker 2: think they did. I don't think they. I don't know
Speaker 2: how he got one used. I think because of this,
Speaker 2: maybe some laws changed, That's what I'm thinking. There were
Speaker 2: lots of laws that were changed or established, so I
Speaker 2: think there was a big cracked down after this, so they,
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, there were many laws passed
Speaker 2: concerning background checks, mandatory safety training, requiring a permit to
Speaker 2: purchase firearms, and ammune is AMMO and things like that,
Speaker 2: So I think it's I don't think it's as widespread
Speaker 2: as like you can walk into a store today here
Speaker 2: and buy as many guns as you want.
Speaker 1: Definitely not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So of the students that were killed, twelve were
Speaker 2: engineering students, one was a nursing student, and one was
Speaker 2: an employee of the university. Fourteen other people were injured.
Speaker 2: Just to let you all know, it was quite a
Speaker 2: few victims. When referencing the loss of these women, it's
Speaker 2: important to realize, like, just it's not the loss of
Speaker 2: human life, it's also the loss of what they could
Speaker 2: have become. You know, they were all very bright women.
Speaker 2: They could have done great.
Speaker 1: Things, completely innocent victims. Yeah, lives just got destroyed randomly,
Speaker 1: right right, stay well in college, Yeah.
Speaker 2: They could have been inventors or you know, discovered something.
Speaker 2: So the one student, Natalie Provost, who dared to say
Speaker 2: she wasn't a feminist, she really like did some self
Speaker 2: reflection and she said in the newspaper in twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: that quote. When I was a girl, feminism was militant women.
Speaker 2: And I wasn't the first female student at Polytechnique. There
Speaker 2: had been several before me. So when I told Mark
Speaker 2: Lapine that I wasn't a feminist, I was telling those
Speaker 2: women that there's so much more than how I say myself. Right,
Speaker 2: you know, I had it easy. The door was already open,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't take this beautiful title and claim it
Speaker 2: for myself. So she really did a lot of reflection
Speaker 2: on that the shooting had no impact on enrollment of
Speaker 2: female students at the Polytechnique. They continue to register, succeed,
Speaker 2: and achieve amazing things every day. So I think, like
Speaker 2: I said, a lot of laws were passed, a lot
Speaker 2: of new procedures were put in place, all to help
Speaker 2: with future tragedies. And I think, unfortunately you I don't
Speaker 2: know if this was the first school shooting there in Montreal,
Speaker 2: but you have to have the first one in order
Speaker 2: to realize, like where the gaps really are, and you know,
Speaker 2: and you know, future future generations and future students were
Speaker 2: saved by the sacrifice that these fourteen women made.
Speaker 1: So you know, when I was in law school, it
Speaker 1: was the first year that fifty one percent of the
Speaker 1: students were women.
Speaker 2: Wow, really nice taken over. You know, that's funny you
Speaker 2: mentioned that because at my law school we went to
Speaker 2: different law schools. At mine, they have like old composite
Speaker 2: photos like U in the student building where like the yeah, right,
Speaker 2: like the older ones from like you know, fifty sixty,
Speaker 2: seventy years ago are all not Yeah, and you'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's the one woman you know on the composite picture,
Speaker 2: and then you start to see more and more and
Speaker 2: more so all over the Yeah. Well, the population I
Speaker 2: think of the United States is a majority of women.
Speaker 2: I think it's fifty one percent something like that. I
Speaker 2: think we.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're digressing. Yeah but anyway, digressing.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you everyone for listening. Yeah, yes, that was
Speaker 2: a huge tragedy. If you could hit the like, subscribe, like,
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Speaker 1: Kill each other.
Speaker 2: Bye bye, don't know peop