Speaker 1: The inspiring interviews with today is Top Landlords, This is
Speaker 1: the Rental Income Podcast and no damnly, Joe, you used
Speaker 1: to tell people that you were buying rental properties for freedom,
Speaker 1: but today you've kind of changed the way that you
Speaker 1: were thinking about that. Can you explain what you mean?
Speaker 2: And I did. I use freedom for a long time
Speaker 2: and now I've switched over to using flexibility. And because
Speaker 2: like I have a lot of responsibilities. I have responsibilities
Speaker 2: to my tenants, to my clients, and so I don't
Speaker 2: say I'm free, but man, I can be flexible in
Speaker 2: my time, and I you know, I can do a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff. I went on a ten plus day
Speaker 2: trip with a few days notice to Florida and I
Speaker 2: kept everything running smoothly from out there. I did work
Speaker 2: a little bit, but it was a great family time.
Speaker 2: And so that's the type of flexibility slash freedom that
Speaker 2: real estate can give you.
Speaker 1: Joe was with us on the podcast about a year ago,
Speaker 1: and on the show today, we're going to follow up
Speaker 1: with Joe see how he's been doing with growing his
Speaker 1: rental portfolio in the last year. Joe has bought four properties.
Speaker 1: On the show today, we're going to figure out how
Speaker 1: he found them, how he financed them. When we talked
Speaker 1: to Joe last he was using his hee lock to
Speaker 1: buy properties. We'll see if that's still working today and
Speaker 1: we'll talk more about how Joe is getting time flexibility
Speaker 1: from investing in rental properties. Joining us on the show
Speaker 1: today from Kansas City is Joe Blackshear. We'll take a
Speaker 1: quick break to thank our sponsors, will come right back
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to Joe. It's a lot of work
Speaker 1: to find a really good rental property, and when you
Speaker 1: actually find that property, you want to make sure you're
Speaker 1: working with a lender that can get that loan closed.
Speaker 1: The lender that I recommend is jay Lee Ridge from
Speaker 1: Ridge Lending Group. She's a nationwide lender and her specialty
Speaker 1: is helping investors finance rental properties. She has a ton
Speaker 1: of loan programs and she can find something customized to
Speaker 1: you for your situation. If you want to find out
Speaker 1: more or you're ready to get started today, just go
Speaker 1: to Ridge Lendinggroup dot com. That's our Idge Lendinggroup dot
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Speaker 2: Joe.
Speaker 1: For anyone that maybe didn't hear your first interview on
Speaker 1: the podcast, can you remind us what does your portfolio
Speaker 1: look like?
Speaker 2: Well, it's you know, we're probably up to just over
Speaker 2: thirty doors. You know, we're probably I don't know how
Speaker 2: detailed you want me to get, but you know we're
Speaker 2: around forty forty forty five percent leveraged just single family homes,
Speaker 2: you know, probably four or five duplexes all in in
Speaker 2: and around the surrounding areas of Kansas City, Missouri. And
Speaker 2: we started eight years ago, and really we've got some
Speaker 2: great loans on quite a few of them. So they're
Speaker 2: they're cash flowing pretty well. We're pretty happy with it.
Speaker 1: And what kind of neighborhoods do you buy in?
Speaker 2: We have gone kind of where the deals have let
Speaker 2: us led us to. I would say, as we have progressed,
Speaker 2: we've gotten into nicer homes, little a little little higher
Speaker 2: you know, price point of homes just makes it a
Speaker 2: little easier to rent, a little easier for ownership what
Speaker 2: I call less brain damage, you know, like staying out
Speaker 2: of the urban core where crime could be a consideration.
Speaker 2: So but so yeah, we have moved out of some
Speaker 2: of those areas. And but really just the Kansas City,
Speaker 2: I would say suburbs.
Speaker 1: B.
Speaker 2: You know, I hear people grade grade areas like B
Speaker 2: B plus blue collar neighborhoods and above.
Speaker 1: So what made you decide to go on a buying spree?
Speaker 1: Mean adding four properties in a short period of time.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a lot of work. Like what
Speaker 1: made you want to do that?
Speaker 2: My wife might just say I'm crazy. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but uh, I think. I think I just wasn't happy
Speaker 2: with with with our cash flow, to be totally honest,
Speaker 2: I wanted to get it back up to the levels
Speaker 2: it was at when I retired with twenty five doors.
Speaker 2: And a big part of that was, you know, I
Speaker 2: think every landlord, if you will, or you know, housing
Speaker 2: provider are feeling the crunch on their cash flow based
Speaker 2: on you know, not only just the cost of things,
Speaker 2: but the in my area specifically, and I'm sure others,
Speaker 2: property taxes have gone rampant with the increases, and then
Speaker 2: also the cost of insurance, and so those have really
Speaker 2: ate into the profit margins. And so you got to
Speaker 2: own more doors obviously to make the same amount of money.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, so because things are more expensive, you just
Speaker 1: have to buy more properties to be at the same level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you're you're in a lucky situation and you're
Speaker 2: able to you know, keep your rents kind of in
Speaker 2: pace with those increase of cost and and and you know,
Speaker 2: so it's it's probably a happy medium of doing both.
Speaker 1: So deals are hard to come by right now. There's
Speaker 1: just not a lot on the market. How did you
Speaker 1: find your properties?
Speaker 2: So, you know, I I am a real estate agent,
Speaker 2: so I have kind of an insight as far as
Speaker 2: working the MLS. So and I and in my overall portfolio,
Speaker 2: I do have quite a few from the MLS. So
Speaker 2: there are you know, there are diamonds out there that
Speaker 2: you can find, you can mine, so to speak. And
Speaker 2: I use a I use a real specific key word
Speaker 2: search that I have set up. But but really though,
Speaker 2: having great relationships with wholesalers has has been huge. I'm
Speaker 2: looking at the four that I purchased specifically, one was
Speaker 2: off the MLS. It was, you know, closed before the
Speaker 2: end of the year. You know, this lady had didn't
Speaker 2: want to have two mortgages or at least was moving
Speaker 2: into a home, so you know, we were able to
Speaker 2: get that home at a good price. But the other
Speaker 2: ones I mentioned relationships, I'm looking here and two of
Speaker 2: them were from the same wholesaler, and then another one
Speaker 2: is just from a from a wholesaler who you know,
Speaker 2: I've been friends with both these guys for a real
Speaker 2: long time. We start to do more and more business.
Speaker 1: So with doing four rehabs, were they back to back,
Speaker 1: like were you constantly working on a property?
Speaker 2: No? No, because I think they started around October and
Speaker 2: probably finished around February. So some of them did overlap,
Speaker 2: are a different phases of different stages, and in you know,
Speaker 2: some cases, I had a different crew work on one
Speaker 2: and the same guys work on the other three. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not such a big operator that I
Speaker 2: that I do a whole lot of things all at
Speaker 2: the same time, like that multiple properties at the same time,
Speaker 2: but they just all worked really well where one's finishing,
Speaker 2: ones coming online, and I got to a point where
Speaker 2: I had, you know, multiple people that I was keeping busy,
Speaker 2: so you know, I made a point to go out
Speaker 2: and find these deals so I could keep them going.
Speaker 2: And it gave me the confidence knowing that I had
Speaker 2: them to help me with these properties get them ready.
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm I'm very grateful at the at the
Speaker 2: whole process that I that we went through over the
Speaker 2: winter with these these gentlemen that came on board with us.
Speaker 1: So talk to me about the financing. I know when
Speaker 1: we talked to you last time, you would use your
Speaker 1: heelock to buy a lot of properties. Is that still
Speaker 1: what you were doing with these properties?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So looking at these, I think I used my
Speaker 2: own lines of credit that we had, you know, for
Speaker 2: either paid off properties, we put lines of credit on them,
Speaker 2: So I use those for probably at least half of them, probably,
Speaker 2: and then a couple others I used just private, private
Speaker 2: hard money lending for you know, short term loans to
Speaker 2: to do the rehab and to and to buy the
Speaker 2: property and then and then you know, eventually pay the
Speaker 2: pay those individuals off once we put long term financing
Speaker 2: on the rehab properties. But yeah, definitely the lines of
Speaker 2: credit or what propelled the growth at this timeframe.
Speaker 1: That's a really smart use of equity. So you have
Speaker 1: rental properties that you've paid off, but then you have
Speaker 1: lines of credit on them so that you can access
Speaker 1: that equity to do burs or to buy more properties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you know, this may be an introduction
Speaker 2: of a new strategy for your listeners, but something I
Speaker 2: would encourage everybody to take a look at when they're
Speaker 2: trying to do things like this. Or payoff debt or
Speaker 2: you know, taking on debt to eventually you know, it's
Speaker 2: an asset, but is a strategy that we've used for
Speaker 2: years called velocity banking, and so it's just kind of
Speaker 2: a debt weapon, so to speak, or an asset accumulation
Speaker 2: net worth growth kind of a strategy where you use
Speaker 2: lines of credit to attack your debt or to make
Speaker 2: purchases and then and then you put all of your
Speaker 2: cash flow against that line of credit to bring down
Speaker 2: the average daily balance. So you're paying the least amount
Speaker 2: of interest because all of your cash flow sits against
Speaker 2: that line of credit, and then you can turn around
Speaker 2: and use it if you need it to pay bills
Speaker 2: throughout the month. And so that's how we've been able
Speaker 2: to use the line of credit while we were working
Speaker 2: W two's too, both my wife and my wife and I,
Speaker 2: you know, we each at one time had wt's. I
Speaker 2: left my job in twenty twenty two. But we used
Speaker 2: our lines of credit to kind of grow our portfolio
Speaker 2: slow and steady, and you know, nothing spectacular. She's a teacher,
Speaker 2: I was a retailer, and we just kind of did
Speaker 2: it slow and steady, putting twenty five percent down on
Speaker 2: different properties, you know, some of them we did create
Speaker 2: a but and then over time you have this larger
Speaker 2: cash flow to pay those lines of credit down and
Speaker 2: then just keep keep circulating that money.
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, that's so so exciting what you
Speaker 1: guys have done. So all right, now with the properties
Speaker 1: once they were all fixed up, did you get individual
Speaker 1: mortgages on all four properties or did you get a
Speaker 1: blanket mortgage for everything?
Speaker 2: So we got a blanket mortgage like a portfolio loan
Speaker 2: on those four properties, and then I had three other
Speaker 2: rentals that were due in the same year or some
Speaker 2: of them. In some cases, you know, in a couple
Speaker 2: of months that were you know, they were like a
Speaker 2: three year note if you will, like a balloon payment.
Speaker 2: I had balloon payments coming up on three of our
Speaker 2: properties with smaller banks. So I ended up just doing
Speaker 2: a seven seven property portfolio loan all in one and
Speaker 2: rolled them all into into one, so there's one payment.
Speaker 1: What's the advantage to having one mortgage for all the
Speaker 1: properties versus having seven individual mortgages.
Speaker 2: Well, it definitely helps you stay like organized. And in
Speaker 2: this case, the finance company lender, they required us to
Speaker 2: create a new LLC and hold them all under that
Speaker 2: one LLC and create a new bank account. So the
Speaker 2: advantage there is asset protection for one both for the
Speaker 2: bank and for ourselves, meaning like these seven properties, we
Speaker 2: were now not in a overall portfolio with all of
Speaker 2: our other properties. So that is an advantage in itself,
Speaker 2: just not getting too many homes inside of one LLC.
Speaker 2: So I guess the other advantages, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: one application, one kind of underwriting process, went out with
Speaker 2: the appraisal and did all of them in the matter
Speaker 2: of a half a day. So it's just there's just
Speaker 2: synergies and doing them all together, and you know, so
Speaker 2: I'd say that's the biggest thing. You probably get some
Speaker 2: savings on different fees, you know, because you're doing so
Speaker 2: many at once that sort of thing, So there are
Speaker 2: some some savings up front too.
Speaker 1: I think, now, what would happen if you wanted to
Speaker 1: sell one of the properties. You know, maybe for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: a property isn't working out, or maybe it appreciates a
Speaker 1: lot and you just want to capture some of that equity.
Speaker 1: Could you sell off one of the properties and still
Speaker 1: keep the mortgage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So those are definitely things that you want to
Speaker 2: look into the terms of your loan, and so for
Speaker 2: mind specifically, most of these types of loans, because there's
Speaker 2: a lot of costs up front for the lender. They
Speaker 2: obviously make their money through the interest payments. There there's
Speaker 2: a pre payment penalty, so you got to look at
Speaker 2: those terms, those details closely. In my case, I could
Speaker 2: have paid a higher interest rate and not had a
Speaker 2: pre payment penalty attached to these properties. But for what
Speaker 2: we got, it's a step down. Meaning a real popular
Speaker 2: one is five four three two one. So you sell
Speaker 2: it in the first year, it's a five percent pre
Speaker 2: payment penalty, and then each subsequent year four three two one.
Speaker 2: So just really pay attention to the terms of your
Speaker 2: loan and ask those questions what's best for you. For me,
Speaker 2: I'm a long term buy and hold. I just rehabbed
Speaker 2: all these properties. I'm not you know, I don't foresee
Speaker 2: me selling any of them. But what in most cases
Speaker 2: in a portfolio loan like this, if you did sell
Speaker 2: one off, they would kind of grow rate the value
Speaker 2: that was inside of that loan, and then just recalculate
Speaker 2: the payment and recalculate the overall loan you'd pay back
Speaker 2: a portion of the underlying debt that's in the portfolio,
Speaker 2: and then probably you know, so, yeah, that's kind of
Speaker 2: the thing. And because of that that's seven well that
Speaker 2: seven percent interest, you know, we definitely wouldn't sell them
Speaker 2: in the first year because that could mean you know,
Speaker 2: over ten thousand dollars on a two hundred thousand dollars property.
Speaker 1: Now, let's get into to some numbers here, right. I
Speaker 1: want to see how much how much revenue you're you're
Speaker 1: creating here? So for the four properties that you did
Speaker 1: the Burson how much rent are you bringing in every month?
Speaker 1: Now off those properties?
Speaker 2: Okay? So off of those four properties, it's sixty five
Speaker 2: hundred okay.
Speaker 1: And then all seven properties in the loan, how much
Speaker 1: how much revenue is that.
Speaker 2: Ten thousand, four hundred and thirty okay?
Speaker 1: And then after you pay the mortgage? How much how
Speaker 1: much is left over after the mortgage payment.
Speaker 2: After mortgage tax and insurance it's twenty three hundred okay?
Speaker 1: And then how does it seem like does it.
Speaker 2: Seem like a lot? But you know, in this case,
Speaker 2: we we h with the financing out that we did,
Speaker 2: we did take a max cash out, so we virtually
Speaker 2: don't have, like, you know, really a lot of money
Speaker 2: into these properties at this.
Speaker 1: Point, which is great because you got all your money
Speaker 1: back to pay down your line to credits and now
Speaker 1: you can do it again if you want, which is uh,
Speaker 1: which is really good. So I mean, I think the
Speaker 1: key here is that you bought these properties. Is it
Speaker 1: no money out of pocket or did you put a
Speaker 1: little money into the properties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we refinanced all seven properties and got a
Speaker 2: loan for one million, thirty four thousand. The appraisal on
Speaker 2: all seven properties that we got done was was one
Speaker 2: point four million, so we have a lot of equity
Speaker 2: right there. Yeah, and so we were able to you know,
Speaker 2: and we were all in all in at nine hundred thousand,
Speaker 2: so you know, I walked away with about two hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty thou which paid back any credit card we
Speaker 2: had materials on it, It paid off all of our
Speaker 2: lines of credit. And so yeah, going forward, if we
Speaker 2: wanted to just focus on those four properties, which I
Speaker 2: think is for the exercise, the way to go, we
Speaker 2: have two hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars in equity
Speaker 2: just on those four properties we bought since October to
Speaker 2: February the earlier this year, in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: So you've you've created by doing these four burd properties,
Speaker 1: you've created two hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars in equity. Yeah, correct, correct,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. And you're in a market or in an
Speaker 1: area where the prices are appreciating, right, So these properties
Speaker 1: will if everything continues to go well with the real
Speaker 1: estate market, these properties should continue to appreciate past that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these are in some good areas, ones
Speaker 2: in well least Summit, Raytown, Liberty, Independence, all suburbs of
Speaker 2: Kansas City. I think, Yeah, anywhere between four to seven
Speaker 2: percent per year is is achievable in appreciation?
Speaker 1: Incredible? All right, So let's go back to the monthly
Speaker 1: cash flow. So you said you have twenty three hundred
Speaker 1: dollars a month after you pay the mortgage, which includes
Speaker 1: taxes and insurance. What about like budgeting for repairs and vacancy.
Speaker 1: How do you do that?
Speaker 2: So I kind of use, first of all, that's not
Speaker 2: my forte the whole budgeting thing as it pertains to that,
Speaker 2: but I kind of use, like, just know that about
Speaker 2: twenty percent of our overall revenue should should be accounted
Speaker 2: to handle the repairs capital. You know, maybe taxes on
Speaker 2: aren't captured inside of alone. So I just kind of
Speaker 2: count on twenty percent of all revenue not being available
Speaker 2: to spend, meaning you know, to be in that it's
Speaker 2: just going to be used for the throughout the month
Speaker 2: each month for repairs and other things.
Speaker 1: And you're looking at that in your whole portfolio, not
Speaker 1: necessarily just for these properties. That that that twenty percent number,
Speaker 1: that's for all your rental income, for all your rentals. Yes, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1: And you also self manage and it seems like you
Speaker 1: you run a pretty pretty mean and lean operation, so
Speaker 1: you're maybe able to do this maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: cheaper than someone else.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I do self manage, and yeah probably obviously
Speaker 2: I don't have like eight, you know, seven to eight
Speaker 2: to ten percent to a property management company, so that
Speaker 2: that does help overall. Just looking at our overall portfolio,
Speaker 2: and you know, I probably have to update this, but
Speaker 2: it's it's up near fifty thousand dollars a month in
Speaker 2: rental income and you know, somewhere around thirty three thousand
Speaker 2: and monthly mortgage payments. And you know, one thing, you
Speaker 2: got to keep and keep keep in mind is not
Speaker 2: like at the end of the year when we pay
Speaker 2: property taxes, not every property tax that we pay is
Speaker 2: captured inside of a S croad, inside of a loan.
Speaker 2: So that's that can be a that can a lot
Speaker 2: of times I say a lot to my friends or
Speaker 2: amongst landlords specifically, not just every friend, but you know,
Speaker 2: like landlords are some of the richest people you'll meet,
Speaker 2: you know, or you know, like the whole idea is
Speaker 2: while you're building your portfolio is you're gonna you're gonna
Speaker 2: live poor but retire rich. That's kind of the long play.
Speaker 2: The long game is like you're just maintaining these properties
Speaker 2: and keeping them up and having you know, you know,
Speaker 2: having your tenants help pay them down, having the appreciation
Speaker 2: appreciation drive them up. So it's you know, I didn't
Speaker 2: get into this necessarily for the cash flow. It's nice
Speaker 2: and it did help me leave my Corporate America job.
Speaker 2: But but definitely you gotta be kindful that it takes
Speaker 2: quite a few to really replace an income, quite a
Speaker 2: few rentals to replace an income.
Speaker 1: So are you glad you left your job or is
Speaker 1: it ever? Is it ever a little tight? Like would
Speaker 1: it would it be easier if you still had your
Speaker 1: W two job.
Speaker 2: So definitely why you're in a growth phase, I would
Speaker 2: I would recommend you keep a W two job because
Speaker 2: lenders will love you, especially like the lenders that will
Speaker 2: give you the best terms on loans. Now you know
Speaker 2: the debt service coverage ratio loan where it's specifically tied
Speaker 2: to the the potential of a property. They don't always
Speaker 2: take into consideration entirely the individual. It's more of the
Speaker 2: deal and the and the property. So you know there
Speaker 2: are those things. But those loans have higher fees, higher
Speaker 2: interest rates. So definitely, I I would say, like keep
Speaker 2: your W two. If you're starting out, get max out
Speaker 2: the amount of loans you can get in your personal name,
Speaker 2: because those are going to be the best loans and
Speaker 2: for that a W two is the way to go.
Speaker 2: But for me personally, I don't. Although I didn't leave
Speaker 2: my work entirely how I wanted to, I definitely have
Speaker 2: found like freedom in my day, and freedom in that
Speaker 2: I would not trade for anything. A lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of late nights and working weekends and extra work
Speaker 2: put in to be able today to have I don't
Speaker 2: call it free financial freedom or but I call it
Speaker 2: flexibility for sure. I mean, like just for example, yesterday
Speaker 2: I went to my son's where his college, and we
Speaker 2: you know, just just with a day's notice, you know,
Speaker 2: and we put in we built a wall so that
Speaker 2: we could add a fifth bedroom down where the basement was,
Speaker 2: you know. And like you know, earlier last week, I
Speaker 2: had a chance to go to Wednesday one o'clock Royals
Speaker 2: baseball game that you know, the tickets were offered to
Speaker 2: me two days advance, and something somebody could ask me
Speaker 2: to do something next week at two o'clock on a Tuesday.
Speaker 2: I know I'm free because I know my schedule and
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't, I don't have an answer to it.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not tied to a nine to five and
Speaker 2: and that is like, like it's just awesome. I you know,
Speaker 2: I try to play pickleball for my health. I try
Speaker 2: to play pickleball at least two hours either in the
Speaker 2: morning or in the evenings. I think, Dan, we had
Speaker 2: to schedule around my pickleball schedule. We did, that's what
Speaker 2: you know so and now. And don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: I'm also an active real estate agent and I work
Speaker 2: very hard there. But just just definitely like anyone that
Speaker 2: was interested in getting involved or growing a portfolio and
Speaker 2: in real estate specifically, just I would like one hundred
Speaker 2: percent support them and and and say it's a great
Speaker 2: decision because of the life changing kind of things along
Speaker 2: with the freedom. And you'd ask me if I missed
Speaker 2: my W two. I missed the people for sure. I
Speaker 2: don't miss the required structure in time. I had to
Speaker 2: be there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's all about the freedom. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's really the secret to life is having that freedom.
Speaker 1: And it sounds like you're doing things right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a really long explanation to say exactly
Speaker 2: what she just said.
Speaker 1: It's all about the Yep, it's all about the freedom. Well,
Speaker 1: if anybody is investing in Kansas City or you want
Speaker 1: to reach out to Joe, I've got his contact information
Speaker 1: on the website, you can find it at Rental incomepodcast
Speaker 1: dot com slash episode five thirty eight. I'd like to
Speaker 1: thank jay Lee Ridge from Ridge Lending Group for sponsoring
Speaker 1: today's episode. If you're looking to buy a rental property,
Speaker 1: whether you're just getting started or you want to add
Speaker 1: to your portfolio, reach out to Chailey right now. She's
Speaker 1: offering a free thirty minute strategy session. If you want
Speaker 1: to take advantage of that, just go to Ridge Lendinggroup
Speaker 1: dot com NMLS four two zero five six. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for checking out the podcast today. Make sure
Speaker 1: you hit that follow button. That way, you'll be notified
Speaker 1: every Tuesday when a new episode comes out. My name
Speaker 1: is Dan Lane and this has been the Rental Income
Speaker 1: podcast