Speaker 1: Hey, folks, I've got Anthony Scaramucci, who is the founder
Speaker 1: and managing partner at Skybridge Capital. Anthony, great to be
Speaker 1: doing this in person with you.
Speaker 2: It's great to be you. See. This is great. This
Speaker 2: backdrop here is fantastic. I love the logo, I love
Speaker 2: the the orange b. Yeah, you're up to your game. Man,
Speaker 2: You're up in your game in.
Speaker 1: The podcast thanks to you and your constructive criticism many
Speaker 1: moons ago. So Anthony, Uh, I'm a big fan of yours.
Speaker 1: You've been in the investment space for a long time.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on how the environment has changed
Speaker 1: around crypto from the government.
Speaker 3: Look, I try to call balls and strikes in my life.
Speaker 3: The Trump administration has transformed the game. I think the
Speaker 3: bad news for the United States unfortunately is were about
Speaker 3: half a decade behind, in some cases a full decade
Speaker 3: behind some of our global competitors. But the Trump administration
Speaker 3: has ended the war on crypto. They've advanced the ball
Speaker 3: on regulation, They've got crypto friendly people at the SEC,
Speaker 3: the CFTC. I think the political wins have shifted. I
Speaker 3: think it's gonna be very hard for Democrats to be
Speaker 3: anti crypto, and I think it's turned out that there's
Speaker 3: no anti crypto vote. There's a crypto vote, but there's
Speaker 3: no anti crypto vote. So guys, let's get over it.
Speaker 3: Let's help the United States maintain its financial services leadership,
Speaker 3: because I think that's very, very important for the United
Speaker 3: States one hundred and twenty five plus years of financial
Speaker 3: services leadership, and crypto has to be part of the future,
Speaker 3: and I applaud the Trump administration for seeing that and
Speaker 3: acting on it. I guess the next step though, is
Speaker 3: just to make sure that this is bipartisan.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I'm very happy President Trump is pro crypto. I'm
Speaker 1: not a fan of this meme coin. How do you
Speaker 1: feel about that?
Speaker 2: All right, But that's what happens with Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: I mean, you got to take the home and let
Speaker 3: me say, you gotta you know, you go to the
Speaker 3: Trump buffet at mar A Lago.
Speaker 2: You can't walk away with pro crypto regulation.
Speaker 3: You can't work away with a little bit of a
Speaker 3: tax cut, you know, and O, could I have a
Speaker 3: side order of banking deregulation? Trump says, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: you got to eat the whole goddamn thing. You gotta
Speaker 3: eat the meme coin. You gotta eat Canada being the
Speaker 3: fifty first state, you gotta eat the attack on Greenland.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're gonna take over to Panama.
Speaker 3: Let's let's drop a tariff bomb in every one of
Speaker 3: our allies, including our adversaries. So you are forced to
Speaker 3: eat the whole thing with the Trump buffet. And so
Speaker 3: I'm not in love with the meme coin. But that's
Speaker 3: part of Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: That's who he is.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. Now. Congress is working on
Speaker 1: legislation the Clarity Act, which is a market structure bill,
Speaker 1: and the Genius Act, which is a stable coin bill.
Speaker 2: Don't you love the fact that they're called stable and genius?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think that. Yeah some plot you know
Speaker 1: you love that. What are your thoughts on that? And
Speaker 1: do you anticipate those getting past this year?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I Actually, I'll be bold enough to say I think
Speaker 3: they get passed before the August recess. I think these
Speaker 3: guys are working hard on it. I think they've made
Speaker 3: some compromises and bridges, and I think it's gonna advance
Speaker 3: pretty quickly. Again, I don't think the Democrats want to
Speaker 3: be on the wrong side of this. And again, just
Speaker 3: think like a political leader for a second, you're going
Speaker 3: into twenty six, you.
Speaker 2: May be up for reelection.
Speaker 3: You're gonna have your opponent be pro crypto, you're gonna
Speaker 3: be anti crypto. First of all, you're gonna miss out
Speaker 3: on a lot of money, You're gonna miss out on
Speaker 3: a lot of votes, and you're gonna miss out on
Speaker 3: a lot of economic opportunity for your constituent. So that's
Speaker 3: a negative trifecta. And I think these guys have decided
Speaker 3: that we're gonna move the game into a post partisan discussion,
Speaker 3: meaning we don't have a partisan discussion about trading stocks
Speaker 3: and bonds, but have a partisan discussion about trading oil
Speaker 3: or gold. And so let's not have one related to crypto.
Speaker 1: That absolutely makes sense. And do you think you know, Anthony,
Speaker 1: you've been through the markets. We know a ball off
Speaker 1: top is coming sometime to say that could be a
Speaker 1: top signal a bitcoin one P fifty k legislation goes
Speaker 1: into place and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, you know I I have experienced
Speaker 3: nine colossal epic bear markets in the business thirty seven years.
Speaker 3: It's it can be brutal in the bear markets. The
Speaker 3: big message for people is you've got to see things through. Obviously,
Speaker 3: probably one of the most painful periods of my career
Speaker 3: was after the FDx debacle, and in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: We were really hurting.
Speaker 3: We held our positions, stuck to our positions, and I
Speaker 3: will tell people on leverage is the right way to
Speaker 3: go in this market, because you know what the leverage is.
Speaker 3: Buff Buffett would tell you that the leverage is a
Speaker 3: spear coming out of the steering wheel of your sports
Speaker 3: car and you're driving at night on an icy mountain
Speaker 3: road when you need to hit the brake, that's when
Speaker 3: you don't want the leverage plunging into you.
Speaker 2: And so stay on levered, stay focused on the long term.
Speaker 3: And yes there's gonna be a blowoff top here somewhere. Yes,
Speaker 3: there'll be a huge correction. You know, Bitcoin can crash
Speaker 3: from three hundred and fifty thousand down to two fifty.
Speaker 3: I'll be a super happy camper. There'll be other people, Oh,
Speaker 3: it's over, it's over, you know, but just yeah, just relax, relax.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned leverage because Warren
Speaker 1: Buffett's partner in crime Rest in Peace, Charliemungers said, the
Speaker 1: way you can go broke women, leverage and booze. Right.
Speaker 3: No, he left out drugs probably you know, Charlie was
Speaker 3: an old school guy. He left out the drugs, but
Speaker 3: the drugs can get you to Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Anthony Circle went and did an IPO, And is
Speaker 1: this the IPO season for crypto?
Speaker 3: Well, first off, fully disclosed, I was an investor pre IPO.
Speaker 3: I congratulate jere Me and his team. I think they've
Speaker 3: done a phenomenal job, and I do think you'll see more.
Speaker 2: I think Kraken will likely go public.
Speaker 3: This year, if not on then couple of months there
Speaker 3: was a neo bank not necessarily in the crypto space
Speaker 3: called Chime when public today, and so the IPO window
Speaker 3: has opened.
Speaker 2: I think that's good news.
Speaker 3: What I'm a little disappointed about, and this is because
Speaker 3: of regulation, we have less great.
Speaker 2: Companies going into the hands of the public.
Speaker 3: So it's hard for the public to get access to XAI, SpaceX.
Speaker 3: Lots of high profile privately traded or privately held companies
Speaker 3: that are not going public because of the onerous regulation.
Speaker 3: So I'm hoping for some delayering activity from the SEC
Speaker 3: that allows the public to get their cells on the hands. Well,
Speaker 3: some of these great companies remember when I was a kid.
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty six, Microsoft went public, and man, if
Speaker 3: you were smart enough to own Microsoft and write Apple Computer,
Speaker 3: you'll let the public have an opportunity to have jockeys
Speaker 3: like Brian Armstrong, Jeremy Alair, all stars CEOs like that
Speaker 3: have their money allocated towards So I hope there's more
Speaker 3: public offerings. I hope there's some less regulation associated with that.
Speaker 1: So let's say the SEC updates the accreditation laws. But
Speaker 1: also could tokenization be something that companies can do ahead
Speaker 1: of an IPO if that makes sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean listen, I think that's also coming.
Speaker 3: You know, if you can get Larry Fink on your program,
Speaker 3: I'll channel my Larry finkishness if you will. That's happening
Speaker 3: the next three years. Imagine a situation, Tony, I've got
Speaker 3: my phone over there on my phone is my Starbucks stock.
Speaker 3: It's been tokenized. I walk into local Starbucks that are
Speaker 3: having a share of purchase and they'll give me a
Speaker 3: twenty percent discount on the drink that I'm about to
Speaker 3: buy from them if I move a sliver of my
Speaker 3: Starbucks stock over to the barista over the blockchain.
Speaker 2: Okay, Why can't that happen. Why can't that Why couldn't
Speaker 2: that happen at a Walmart? Why couldn't that happened at
Speaker 2: Walt Disney. You know the point, the point I'm making
Speaker 2: is there's going to.
Speaker 3: Be a lot more fungibility, a lot more liquidity on chain,
Speaker 3: and it's going to open up a whole range of
Speaker 3: potential positive commercial outcomes for people.
Speaker 1: Now, this I think was just yesterday, Bank of America
Speaker 1: CEO confirmed there indeed working on a stable coin. They're
Speaker 1: also working on a joint stable coin with the rest
Speaker 1: of the banks. JP Morgan, what is your outlook on
Speaker 1: the the stablecoin market and the impact it may have
Speaker 1: on the US dollar?
Speaker 2: Well, I think this is the I think this is
Speaker 2: the sweet spot.
Speaker 3: People need to understand that we need to get this
Speaker 3: regulation passed and we need to have clarity on stable
Speaker 3: coins because look at somebody like Tether, uh not well
Speaker 3: known in the United States, but they not use the
Speaker 3: United States because of the regulation. But Tether has more
Speaker 3: treasuries US treasuries on its balance sheet than Germany, the
Speaker 3: sovereign country of Germany, the sovereign country of Japan, and
Speaker 3: so what we know more stable coin ploof for if
Speaker 3: I'm saying that word properly leads to more dollar supremacy,
Speaker 3: because we're going to mark these stable coins in US
Speaker 3: dollar and that will strengthen the US dollars position around
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 1: Is Skybridge looking at help doing something along those lines
Speaker 1: or helping another company do something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I'm an investor in Circle.
Speaker 3: We have an ETF where we own a lot of
Speaker 3: coinbase in the ETF, so we're huge investors in coinbase,
Speaker 3: at least.
Speaker 2: Through that pass through.
Speaker 3: I own a lot of bitcoin on the firm's balance sheet.
Speaker 3: We own bitcoin in the firm's funds. We own Salona Avalanche,
Speaker 3: we own Poka Dot. I don't see us going into
Speaker 3: the stable coin space. We're just too small of a company.
Speaker 3: But I do see us as enablers. You know, we
Speaker 3: have a big conference business. We've been fifteen years in
Speaker 3: the conferencing business sixteen years now, hundreds of thousands of delegates,
Speaker 3: and I've been trying to use that platform to convert
Speaker 3: traditional finance peace ball into at least thinking more about
Speaker 3: DeFi and so a lot of different organizations, a lot
Speaker 3: of different coins have partnered with us to help out
Speaker 3: with that experience, I know you got to go.
Speaker 1: Final question, what are you most excited about in crypto
Speaker 1: for this year?
Speaker 2: I'm excited about you.
Speaker 3: Aman want to hang out with you. I want to
Speaker 3: do I need some thinking crypto swag.
Speaker 1: We're going to do an in person interview. I recorded
Speaker 1: the financial District Wall Street.
Speaker 2: I want to do that.
Speaker 3: But in addition to you, the thing I'm most excited
Speaker 3: about is getting this legislation passed, because this legislation getting
Speaker 3: passed is a game opener for the traditional finance people. Yes,
Speaker 3: Larry Fink is there, Abigail Johnson of Fidelity is there.
Speaker 3: But the money center banks are coming and that's when
Speaker 3: you'll start to see the real maturity in the industry.
Speaker 3: And my big message to thinking crypto viewers and listeners
Speaker 3: is we're still very very very early.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: On that note, I'll let you go.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Are you looking good man? Yeah? Likewise, like the pocket
Speaker 2: square by the way, looking good.