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<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, I've got Anthony Scaramucci, who is the founder

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<v Speaker 1>and managing partner at Skybridge Capital. Anthony, great to be

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<v Speaker 1>doing this in person with you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's great to be you. See. This is great. This

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<v Speaker 2>backdrop here is fantastic. I love the logo, I love

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<v Speaker 2>the the orange b. Yeah, you're up to your game. Man,

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<v Speaker 2>You're up in your game in.

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<v Speaker 1>The podcast thanks to you and your constructive criticism many

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<v Speaker 1>moons ago. So Anthony, Uh, I'm a big fan of yours.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been in the investment space for a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on how the environment has changed

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<v Speaker 1>around crypto from the government.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I try to call balls and strikes in my life.

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<v Speaker 3>The Trump administration has transformed the game. I think the

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<v Speaker 3>bad news for the United States unfortunately is were about

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<v Speaker 3>half a decade behind, in some cases a full decade

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<v Speaker 3>behind some of our global competitors. But the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 3>has ended the war on crypto. They've advanced the ball

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<v Speaker 3>on regulation, They've got crypto friendly people at the SEC,

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<v Speaker 3>the CFTC. I think the political wins have shifted. I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's gonna be very hard for Democrats to be

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<v Speaker 3>anti crypto, and I think it's turned out that there's

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<v Speaker 3>no anti crypto vote. There's a crypto vote, but there's

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<v Speaker 3>no anti crypto vote. So guys, let's get over it.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's help the United States maintain its financial services leadership,

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<v Speaker 3>because I think that's very, very important for the United

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<v Speaker 3>States one hundred and twenty five plus years of financial

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<v Speaker 3>services leadership, and crypto has to be part of the future,

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<v Speaker 3>and I applaud the Trump administration for seeing that and

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<v Speaker 3>acting on it. I guess the next step though, is

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<v Speaker 3>just to make sure that this is bipartisan.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. I'm very happy President Trump is pro crypto. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not a fan of this meme coin. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>feel about that?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, But that's what happens with Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you got to take the home and let

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<v Speaker 3>me say, you gotta you know, you go to the

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<v Speaker 3>Trump buffet at mar A Lago.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't walk away with pro crypto regulation.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't work away with a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>tax cut, you know, and O, could I have a

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<v Speaker 3>side order of banking deregulation? Trump says, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>you got to eat the whole goddamn thing. You gotta

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<v Speaker 3>eat the meme coin. You gotta eat Canada being the

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<v Speaker 3>fifty first state, you gotta eat the attack on Greenland.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe we're gonna take over to Panama.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's let's drop a tariff bomb in every one of

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<v Speaker 3>our allies, including our adversaries. So you are forced to

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<v Speaker 3>eat the whole thing with the Trump buffet. And so

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not in love with the meme coin. But that's

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<v Speaker 3>part of Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>That's who he is.

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<v Speaker 1>It is what it is. Now. Congress is working on

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<v Speaker 1>legislation the Clarity Act, which is a market structure bill,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Genius Act, which is a stable coin bill.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't you love the fact that they're called stable and genius?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, I think that. Yeah some plot you know

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<v Speaker 1>you love that. What are your thoughts on that? And

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<v Speaker 1>do you anticipate those getting past this year?

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<v Speaker 2>I do.

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<v Speaker 3>I Actually, I'll be bold enough to say I think

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<v Speaker 3>they get passed before the August recess. I think these

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<v Speaker 3>guys are working hard on it. I think they've made

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<v Speaker 3>some compromises and bridges, and I think it's gonna advance

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<v Speaker 3>pretty quickly. Again, I don't think the Democrats want to

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<v Speaker 3>be on the wrong side of this. And again, just

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<v Speaker 3>think like a political leader for a second, you're going

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<v Speaker 3>into twenty six, you.

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<v Speaker 2>May be up for reelection.

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<v Speaker 3>You're gonna have your opponent be pro crypto, you're gonna

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<v Speaker 3>be anti crypto. First of all, you're gonna miss out

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<v Speaker 3>on a lot of money, You're gonna miss out on

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of votes, and you're gonna miss out on

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of economic opportunity for your constituent. So that's

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<v Speaker 3>a negative trifecta. And I think these guys have decided

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<v Speaker 3>that we're gonna move the game into a post partisan discussion,

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<v Speaker 3>meaning we don't have a partisan discussion about trading stocks

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<v Speaker 3>and bonds, but have a partisan discussion about trading oil

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<v Speaker 3>or gold. And so let's not have one related to crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>That absolutely makes sense. And do you think you know, Anthony,

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<v Speaker 1>you've been through the markets. We know a ball off

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<v Speaker 1>top is coming sometime to say that could be a

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<v Speaker 1>top signal a bitcoin one P fifty k legislation goes

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<v Speaker 1>into place and things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, listen, you know I I have experienced

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<v Speaker 3>nine colossal epic bear markets in the business thirty seven years.

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<v Speaker 3>It's it can be brutal in the bear markets. The

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<v Speaker 3>big message for people is you've got to see things through. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 3>probably one of the most painful periods of my career

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<v Speaker 3>was after the FDx debacle, and in twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 2>We were really hurting.

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<v Speaker 3>We held our positions, stuck to our positions, and I

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<v Speaker 3>will tell people on leverage is the right way to

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<v Speaker 3>go in this market, because you know what the leverage is.

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<v Speaker 3>Buff Buffett would tell you that the leverage is a

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<v Speaker 3>spear coming out of the steering wheel of your sports

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<v Speaker 3>car and you're driving at night on an icy mountain

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<v Speaker 3>road when you need to hit the brake, that's when

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<v Speaker 3>you don't want the leverage plunging into you.

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<v Speaker 2>And so stay on levered, stay focused on the long term.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes there's gonna be a blowoff top here somewhere. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>there'll be a huge correction. You know, Bitcoin can crash

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<v Speaker 3>from three hundred and fifty thousand down to two fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be a super happy camper. There'll be other people, Oh,

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<v Speaker 3>it's over, it's over, you know, but just yeah, just relax, relax.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned leverage because Warren

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<v Speaker 1>Buffett's partner in crime Rest in Peace, Charliemungers said, the

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<v Speaker 1>way you can go broke women, leverage and booze. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>No, he left out drugs probably you know, Charlie was

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<v Speaker 3>an old school guy. He left out the drugs, but

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<v Speaker 3>the drugs can get you to Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So Anthony Circle went and did an IPO, And is

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<v Speaker 1>this the IPO season for crypto?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, first off, fully disclosed, I was an investor pre IPO.

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<v Speaker 3>I congratulate jere Me and his team. I think they've

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<v Speaker 3>done a phenomenal job, and I do think you'll see more.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Kraken will likely go public.

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<v Speaker 3>This year, if not on then couple of months there

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<v Speaker 3>was a neo bank not necessarily in the crypto space

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<v Speaker 3>called Chime when public today, and so the IPO window

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<v Speaker 3>has opened.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's good news.

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<v Speaker 3>What I'm a little disappointed about, and this is because

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<v Speaker 3>of regulation, we have less great.

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<v Speaker 2>Companies going into the hands of the public.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's hard for the public to get access to XAI, SpaceX.

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<v Speaker 3>Lots of high profile privately traded or privately held companies

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<v Speaker 3>that are not going public because of the onerous regulation.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm hoping for some delayering activity from the SEC

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<v Speaker 3>that allows the public to get their cells on the hands. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>some of these great companies remember when I was a kid.

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<v Speaker 3>In nineteen eighty six, Microsoft went public, and man, if

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<v Speaker 3>you were smart enough to own Microsoft and write Apple Computer,

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<v Speaker 3>you'll let the public have an opportunity to have jockeys

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<v Speaker 3>like Brian Armstrong, Jeremy Alair, all stars CEOs like that

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<v Speaker 3>have their money allocated towards So I hope there's more

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<v Speaker 3>public offerings. I hope there's some less regulation associated with that.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's say the SEC updates the accreditation laws. But

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<v Speaker 1>also could tokenization be something that companies can do ahead

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<v Speaker 1>of an IPO if that makes sense?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean listen, I think that's also coming.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, if you can get Larry Fink on your program,

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<v Speaker 3>I'll channel my Larry finkishness if you will. That's happening

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<v Speaker 3>the next three years. Imagine a situation, Tony, I've got

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<v Speaker 3>my phone over there on my phone is my Starbucks stock.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been tokenized. I walk into local Starbucks that are

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<v Speaker 3>having a share of purchase and they'll give me a

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<v Speaker 3>twenty percent discount on the drink that I'm about to

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<v Speaker 3>buy from them if I move a sliver of my

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<v Speaker 3>Starbucks stock over to the barista over the blockchain.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Why can't that happen. Why can't that Why couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>that happen at a Walmart? Why couldn't that happened at

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<v Speaker 2>Walt Disney. You know the point, the point I'm making

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<v Speaker 2>is there's going to.

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<v Speaker 3>Be a lot more fungibility, a lot more liquidity on chain,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's going to open up a whole range of

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<v Speaker 3>potential positive commercial outcomes for people.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this I think was just yesterday, Bank of America

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<v Speaker 1>CEO confirmed there indeed working on a stable coin. They're

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<v Speaker 1>also working on a joint stable coin with the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the banks. JP Morgan, what is your outlook on

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<v Speaker 1>the the stablecoin market and the impact it may have

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<v Speaker 1>on the US dollar?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think this is the I think this is

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<v Speaker 2>the sweet spot.

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<v Speaker 3>People need to understand that we need to get this

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<v Speaker 3>regulation passed and we need to have clarity on stable

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<v Speaker 3>coins because look at somebody like Tether, uh not well

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<v Speaker 3>known in the United States, but they not use the

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<v Speaker 3>United States because of the regulation. But Tether has more

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<v Speaker 3>treasuries US treasuries on its balance sheet than Germany, the

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<v Speaker 3>sovereign country of Germany, the sovereign country of Japan, and

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<v Speaker 3>so what we know more stable coin ploof for if

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<v Speaker 3>I'm saying that word properly leads to more dollar supremacy,

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<v Speaker 3>because we're going to mark these stable coins in US

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<v Speaker 3>dollar and that will strengthen the US dollars position around

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<v Speaker 3>the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Is Skybridge looking at help doing something along those lines

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<v Speaker 1>or helping another company do something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, like I said, I'm an investor in Circle.

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<v Speaker 3>We have an ETF where we own a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>coinbase in the ETF, so we're huge investors in coinbase,

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<v Speaker 3>at least.

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<v Speaker 2>Through that pass through.

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<v Speaker 3>I own a lot of bitcoin on the firm's balance sheet.

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<v Speaker 3>We own bitcoin in the firm's funds. We own Salona Avalanche,

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<v Speaker 3>we own Poka Dot. I don't see us going into

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<v Speaker 3>the stable coin space. We're just too small of a company.

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<v Speaker 3>But I do see us as enablers. You know, we

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<v Speaker 3>have a big conference business. We've been fifteen years in

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<v Speaker 3>the conferencing business sixteen years now, hundreds of thousands of delegates,

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<v Speaker 3>and I've been trying to use that platform to convert

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<v Speaker 3>traditional finance peace ball into at least thinking more about

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<v Speaker 3>DeFi and so a lot of different organizations, a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of different coins have partnered with us to help out

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<v Speaker 3>with that experience, I know you got to go.

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<v Speaker 1>Final question, what are you most excited about in crypto

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<v Speaker 1>for this year?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited about you.

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<v Speaker 3>Aman want to hang out with you. I want to

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<v Speaker 3>do I need some thinking crypto swag.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to do an in person interview. I recorded

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<v Speaker 1>the financial District Wall Street.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>But in addition to you, the thing I'm most excited

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<v Speaker 3>about is getting this legislation passed, because this legislation getting

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<v Speaker 3>passed is a game opener for the traditional finance people. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>Larry Fink is there, Abigail Johnson of Fidelity is there.

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<v Speaker 3>But the money center banks are coming and that's when

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<v Speaker 3>you'll start to see the real maturity in the industry.

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<v Speaker 3>And my big message to thinking crypto viewers and listeners

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<v Speaker 3>is we're still very very very early.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmmm.

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<v Speaker 1>On that note, I'll let you go.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you looking good man? Yeah? Likewise, like the pocket

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<v Speaker 2>square by the way, looking good.