WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000 You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more 2 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:12.679 amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.399 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four twelve. 4 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:18.519 I Think every woman should have a blowtorch. 5 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:23.519 Julia Child broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood 6 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:25.760 when we really should be working on that next draft. 7 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:30.079 It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and 8 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.560 business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your 9 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:34.039 screenplay bulletproof. 10 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:39.560 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another 11 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.560 episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, 12 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:48.560 Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. 13 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:53.560 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 14 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.600 on the kind of project you are and the goals 15 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.000 of the project you are, so we actually break it 16 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.560 down by three categors micro budget, indie film, market and 17 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.319 studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a 18 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:08.000 reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie 19 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:10.480 is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars 20 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:13.439 and we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof Script Coverage, 21 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:19.200 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, 22 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.040 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 23 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:26.560 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 24 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:32.959 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well, guys, 25 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:39.200 Today on the show, we have Oscar nominated documentarians Julie 26 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:44.120 Cohen and Betsy West. Now they are the creative force 27 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:48.920 behind the new documentary Julia, which is about the legendary 28 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:54.680 Julia Childs, and we discuss how they approach documentary, how 29 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.519 they work the story, how they get the interviews, all 30 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:01.519 the kind of creative story points of how they approach 31 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.200 dealing with a legend. They had some experience with that 32 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:10.039 because they also did the Oscar nominated the Notorious RBG, 33 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.919 which is of course Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the late Great 34 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.159 Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and we talked a 35 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.759 little bit about how that project got off the ground 36 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.599 and how they were able to put that whole thing 37 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:25.159 together because she'd been very private most of her life, 38 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.560 and we just get into the weeds of documentary in 39 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.680 this episode, So without any further ado, please enjoy my 40 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:37.680 conversation with Julie Cohen and Betsy West. I'd like to 41 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:40.280 welcome to the show, Julie Cohen and Betsy West. How 42 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:40.919 you guys doing. 43 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:43.240 We're great, Alex. 44 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.639 We've just been having a lot of lasts before we 45 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.759 started recording, so I do appreciate you guys coming on. 46 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.599 I did have the chance to watch your amazing new 47 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.360 doc Julia about Julia Childs, who I am a huge 48 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.000 fan of, a fan of, and I've loved your past 49 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:01.639 work as well, which were going to get into, but 50 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:04.360 let's just jump in. How did you guys get how 51 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:05.759 did you guys team up and how did you get 52 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:07.000 started in documentary? 53 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.800 Well, big question, big question. 54 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.840 We teamed up through a project called The Maker's Project, 55 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:20.120 which was possibly not so surprising given us some of 56 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.759 the work that we've done subsequently about the history of 57 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.159 the modern women's rights movement. 58 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:26.520 Oh, very cool. 59 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.520 Yeah, that was like ten or so years ago, and 60 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.639 then you know, we went our separate ways more or less. 61 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:39.759 And then in twenty fifteen, as Justice Ginsburg was kind 62 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:42.479 of blowing up on the internet for the sense she 63 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:47.000 was writing, and we had I both interviewed her. Prior 64 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:49.759 to that, we came up with the idea of doing 65 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.879 that documentary, and then subsequent to that, we've been working 66 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.199 on a few films together. 67 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.719 Now, what was it about a documentary for each of 68 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:00.319 you that made you want to go? I went to 69 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.000 this side of storytelling, the side of the industry. 70 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.520 You know, when I look back on it, I always 71 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.599 loved documentaries, and you know, I loved as a kid. 72 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.680 I will now date myself watching the world at war 73 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:21.720 and you know, just longer storytelling. But you know, I 74 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:28.439 became a broadcast network news producer and behind the scenes producer, 75 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.399 working on shorter format and then magazine pieces. Julie and 76 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.879 I have sort of a similar background. But I always 77 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:39.319 loved documentaries back in the day, even when they were 78 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:41.160 kind of it was kind of the D word, you know, 79 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:47.040 documentaries weren't so hot back then. But that's really what 80 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:47.800 I wanted to do. 81 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.240 Yeah, I mean, similar deal for me, also came from 82 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:53.360 the broadcast news world. 83 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:59.399 Also just love documentaries like I like movies, like movie movies. 84 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.519 So doing tell real stories in the format of movies 85 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:06.240 is really fun. Like my favorite art is always true 86 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:10.600 story art. I love photography, I even love music that's 87 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:13.680 kind of documentary, as you know, the Bruce Springsteen's like 88 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.120 Ghost of Tom Joad album that's really sort of like 89 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.040 a documentary in an album. 90 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:19.879 Like anything that's anything. 91 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.879 That's real feels like kind of some of the coolest 92 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:23.639 stories to tell. 93 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:26.800 Now, how do you guys choose the subject matter that 94 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.879 you guys tackle, Because it doesn't take you know, six months, 95 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.519 three months to make one of these things. It generally 96 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:35.839 takes a few years. And but how do you guys 97 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:39.639 choose and then how do you stay stay interested in 98 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.680 it for so long? 99 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.120 Well, I mean you put your finger on it, Alex. Really, 100 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.759 you have to choose things that you want to spend 101 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.399 two or three or four years on or else you know, 102 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.560 you'll go nuts. And I think, you know, with Justice Ginsburg, 103 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.879 it was kind of one of those light bulb ideas 104 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:01.920 of oh my goodness, what an amazing story, a current story, 105 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:04.839 a backstory, a love story. I mean, you just couldn't 106 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:08.399 have anything better than working on that. 107 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:09.399 You know. 108 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:14.160 After that film, we started looking around for other projects 109 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.959 and thinking about other women who perhaps had not been 110 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:24.360 appreciated so much, and you know, had had really been groundbreakers, 111 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.360 had really changed our world, and that's when we landed 112 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:29.879 on the idea of doing Julia. 113 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.879 Yeah. I mean, there's definitely not a formula that we have. 114 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.720 It's the main decision point is like do we want 115 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.839 to delve into this because it is otherwise, like you know, 116 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:45.920 making a documentary. As you're in the film, audiences probably 117 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.839 know like it's it's it's just it's a lot of work, 118 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.879 it's a lot of time, a lot of the process 119 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.600 is a big pain in the butt. So the reward 120 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:58.519 side is feeling like you really love the subject matter, 121 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:01.240 and we just realized like, oh, this one could really 122 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:01.720 be fun. 123 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:03.040 It's so different than. 124 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:08.079 The other stories that we've worked on in our careers, 125 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:12.279 and there was just like so much joy involved in 126 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.759 kind of deliciousness, and it seems like subject matter that 127 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.759 we really really might kind of groove on you No. 128 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.720 I think it also was a kind of filming challenge 129 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:28.600 for us to do something different. Yes, Julia has archive, 130 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.240 but also the opportunity to do some high end food photography, 131 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.399 which neither of us had really done before, and to 132 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:39.800 really dig into that we thought would be would be 133 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:40.399 super fun. 134 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.399 Now, going back to RPG, what was what was it 135 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:47.680 like working with her, interviewing her, being in the room 136 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.279 with her. I mean, I have to ask, because she's 137 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.040 essentially an icon at this point, and she wasn't icon 138 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.639 while she was a living icon when she was with us. 139 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.199 What was that like? And how did you even approach that? 140 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:02.360 When did did you just call up I would like 141 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.279 to make this film about you? How did the whole 142 00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:05.120 process come to be. 143 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:15.040 You know, step by step? Basically, we approached Justice Ginsberg 144 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:19.920 pretty carefully and strategically. And initially when we went to 145 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:22.319 her with the idea of doing a documentary, she said, 146 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:24.680 you know, not yet, I'm not ready. This was, you know, 147 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.319 when she was in her early eighties. We're thinking, okay, 148 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.319 but we she didn't say no to us. So then 149 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.879 we came back a couple of months later with the 150 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:35.120 idea of, oh, well, we're just going to start to 151 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.159 interview people with your friends and colleagues and whatever, you know, 152 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.879 to kind of get her approval for that, and then 153 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:45.200 we took it from there. So it was we didn't 154 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:47.200 go in saying, oh, yeah, we want to do a 155 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.000 documentary and can we go with you to the gym? 156 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.519 By the way, like we didn't start out with that 157 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.240 ask even though in our minds we were thinking it 158 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:58.440 would be fun to go with her to the gym, 159 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:02.519 but it was a slow building of trust. 160 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.320 It was a step by step. So when you're approaching 161 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.360 a subject, a subject like that who is so high profile, 162 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:11.879 you can't walk in with guns of blarin You have 163 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.759 to really kind of really baby step your way in 164 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:15.799 to that kind of stuff. 165 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:19.399 Yeah, I mean, I think you're always trying to. 166 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.960 Ask questions to which you can get the answer yes, 167 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.080 So those need to be small questions. 168 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:27.440 First. 169 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.519 You don't come at some you have to think of 170 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.879 it from their perspective, Like you don't come at someone 171 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:33.600 with like a really like, oh, we're going to impose 172 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:33.879 on you. 173 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:35.240 So much, We're going to take up so much of 174 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:35.720 your time. 175 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.480 We're going to you know, pick apart every aspect of 176 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.519 your career. No, it's not like that, You're like, I mean, 177 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:45.120 the way to get the process going is to try 178 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:47.200 to start to get it going, So trying to come 179 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:49.799 up with things that you think that your subject might 180 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:50.279 agree to. 181 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:51.519 And in this case, as. 182 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.519 Betsy says, we'll be right back after a word from 183 00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:01.039 our sponsor out back to the show. 184 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.360 You know, the initial thing wasn't even about us interviewing 185 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.519 or even filming the justices herself. It was about like, oh, 186 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:11.799 is it okay with you if we start to interview 187 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:15.240 some of the people who you've worked with in earlier 188 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.320 phases of your career, just so that the project, so 189 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.799 that she starts to get the sense that this project 190 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.519 is moving forward. And here back from people that we interviewed, like, oh, 191 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:27.639 you know, these women were pretty serious about what they 192 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:29.840 were doing, and they seemed like they'd done some research, 193 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:32.080 and you know, they seemed like they came in with 194 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.720 this amazing you know, woman cinematographer who had like greater 195 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.159 like this is like a real production happening here. 196 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:40.279 So then you get that sense. 197 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:44.039 And then at that stage, Justice Gisberg let us start 198 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.320 filming some of you know, some public events that she 199 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.879 was doing, and then later some more intimate or private events, 200 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:53.639 and then the actual interview didn't happen until you know, 201 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.440 to near the end of the process, actually two years 202 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:57.480 into filming. 203 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.960 Now I have to ask, I mean, how nervous were 204 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.000 you to show it to her? 205 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:09.480 Well, you know, amazingly, Justice Ginsburg never asked to see 206 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:15.000 the film ahead of the screening at Sundance and which 207 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.559 we thought was a real act of trust, or maybe 208 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.960 she was just too busy or who don't but you 209 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:25.279 can't ask. She agreed to go to the Sundance Film Festival, 210 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:30.200 so we had both our major first premiere at Sundance 211 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.600 there with Justice Ginsburg sitting across the aisle from us, 212 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:40.720 and it was completely totally nerve wracking, and you know, 213 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.919 we were kind of watching her the sock of our 214 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.559 eyes the entire time, as opposed to watching the film. 215 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:50.279 And you know, she started laughing right at the beginning 216 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:52.720 because there is sort of a kind of funny opening 217 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:57.159 sequence with statues saying mean things about her, and then 218 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.240 you know, just a little ways in she pulled had 219 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.840 a tissue and wiped her eye and it was it 220 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:08.000 was incredible. I can't even tell you what it was 221 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.759 like to experience that and to have her like like 222 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.440 the film and appreciate it. I mean, it just meant 223 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:16.600 everything to us. 224 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:18.639 And you guys, would did you guys premiere at the 225 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.639 eCos at Sundance or was it that the Egyptian. 226 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:25.960 Give us the other I try to remember, but it was. 227 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:30.600 The Egyptian, the big one, Mark, Okay, it was just 228 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.639 I was just trying to visualize it. 229 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.679 Yeah, about five hundred people that had like a sort 230 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:42.039 of bleachery, right, there's sort of bleacher seats and yeah. 231 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:43.639 That must have been And then and then with the 232 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:47.080 whole oscar stuff going around, what was that like when 233 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:48.360 you got that call? 234 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:52.799 Well, you know, you don't get a call and you 235 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:57.759 watch it on watch what you watch everyone else? The 236 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.480 nominations being announced, and certainly it was fun. 237 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.559 But we had our we our husbands made us breakfast. 238 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.120 So we're at my house and we had a really 239 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.360 nice breakfast that we sat there. And actually our name, 240 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.879 the RBG name, was the last one in the list 241 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.960 of the nominees, so we actually thought when they named 242 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.519 the fourth one and it wasn't us, we thought, okay, 243 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.200 that's it. You know. We didn't so that that accounted 244 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:32.639 for our rather exuberant reaction, and it was more a 245 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.360 reaction like you're kidding. 246 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.440 We were really we were quite surprised. 247 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.519 So so as the inaudacious were being an nice we're 248 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.919 like just past the hash Browns. It's like it's over already. 249 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.919 We weren't that casual. We had eaten already. 250 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.399 Okay, good, I got you. 251 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.159 That's because we were the last one to be announced 252 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:55.080 as the other. 253 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:56.440 You know, as the other. 254 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.759 Films are being named, you sort of start to get 255 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.679 the that you're not gonna. 256 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:06.519 Be No, what was the biggest lesson you learned from 257 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:07.480 working on RBG? 258 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:15.720 Hi? The biggest lesson from art working on RBG? I mean, 259 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:25.039 I guess persistence. You know, slow and steady wins the game. 260 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:30.240 I mean, that's what RBG did in her life. Lots 261 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:35.000 of setbacks, lots of discouragement, you know, for a super 262 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.679 smart person who gets out of law school and can't 263 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.720 get the kind of job that she really deserved, and 264 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:47.960 then you know, just started finding this opportunity to challenge 265 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.000 not only the discrimination that she faced, but the discrimination 266 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.159 that all American women faced, and a world that people 267 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.960 took for granted where women were second class citizens. I mean, 268 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.679 kind of an extraordinary thing that really came out of 269 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.799 the obstacles in front of her. So I guess it's 270 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:12.360 a lesson of persistence and don't let anger get the 271 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:17.320 best of you. Think strategically, Okay, you're up against a wall. 272 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:20.120 How am I going to get past that? That was 273 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:20.879 her approach. 274 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.759 Now, when you guys are laying out a film, how 275 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:29.240 do you lay out the story. Do you discover the 276 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.720 story along the way? Is there an outline? What is 277 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:36.960 the actual documentary process as far as you guys are concerned, Yeah. 278 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:41.360 The process is sort of like continually organizing and outlining 279 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.399 the story and changing that as you go along. Like 280 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:49.879 certainly at various stages we have a rough idea of 281 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.519 thoughts of what you want the structure of the film 282 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.039 to be. Then at a certain point in the process, 283 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:57.639 our editor gets involved. 284 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.320 And in the case of both RBG and Jewel, oh yeah, 285 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:01.200 are the same. 286 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:05.919 Brilliant editor Carla Gucierrez was part of that process with us. 287 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.120 So you sort of, you know, we sort of you have. 288 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.039 Very you know, you're very tentative outlines in mind, but 289 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.559 often what works the best, I mean, we we like to. 290 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:18.039 Start, you know, in the. 291 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.759 Same way that I was saying, you're trying to get 292 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.279 to it, yes, pretty or you know, we try to 293 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.240 start with some scenes that we really think are going 294 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.840 to work, not worry about like the whole thing in 295 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.559 one in one sitting, but just like you know, take 296 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.799 a bite of it, take a small slice of what 297 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.759 the story might be, and like once there's a really 298 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.919 beautiful scene, then that gives you the optimism that you 299 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.440 need to push to the next level and sort of 300 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.799 piece things together and if they're working, keep going in 301 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:47.120 the direction that things are working, and if they're not working, 302 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.480 make revisions to the parts that aren't working. 303 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.480 Yeah, I mean, we do use, you know, the sort 304 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:59.000 of modern method of the little post its on a wall, 305 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.399 which filmmakers know where you have you write the scenes 306 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000 and the things that you expect you're going to have 307 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.279 to cover, and you put them on a wall. Only 308 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.319 we do it digitally now with this thing called jamboard, 309 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:16.839 which you can use to just move scenes around and 310 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:20.400 as Julie said, we start cutting scenes. I mean, in 311 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.599 the case of Julia, one idea we had was, Okay, 312 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.960 people have seen this archive of Julia, you know, the 313 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:33.119 her cooking lessons have been repeated thousands of times and 314 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.200 you know, people love watching them. But how fun to 315 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:40.559 deconstruct the making of that show of the French Chef 316 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.200 from the very beginning. And we have the opportunity to 317 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.599 do that because the producer Russ Morash is still around, 318 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:50.880 and we found the stage manager Alex Pirie, and you know, 319 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.960 sat them down and had them take us through what 320 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.839 it was like to put together this show, this groundbreaking 321 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.640 show in nineteen six, and it was so fun, you know, 322 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:07.839 to get the scenes of the kind of makeshift studio 323 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.240 that they had and the photographs that Julia's husband took 324 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:14.480 behind the scenes. I mean, I think people going to 325 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:17.839 a documentary they want to experience a world, you know, 326 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.960 they want to be immersed in a world that they 327 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.559 didn't necessarily know. They may know the characterization of Julia, 328 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.920 they may cook some of Julia's food, but do they 329 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.039 really understand Julia's world and what it took to become 330 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.400 Julia child. And that's what we were trying to get at. 331 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.640 Yeah, what I was, what I found so wonderful about 332 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:43.240 the film was that, you know, my experience with Julia's obviously, 333 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.799 I know her growing got my mom had the book 334 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.720 and everything. I probably saw her on TV once or twice, 335 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:52.559 but it was Julia, and it was Julie Julia, Julia 336 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.160 that the midl Street Julia, Yeah, Yeah, which was a 337 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:58.880 fantastic film, but that was the introduction to her story, 338 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:01.920 and it kind of skims over a lot of stuff 339 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.400 because it's you know, it's a it's a movie. But 340 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.720 what you guys did was you went so deep into 341 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.559 it and I really didn't realize how groundbreaking she truly was. 342 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:15.880 I mean she she changed how America cooked it was, 343 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:21.240 uh and also was you know, a women's rights icon 344 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.920 as well. But before we keep going, what did how 345 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.519 did Julia come? How did you decide on Julia and 346 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:30.279 and said, Okay, we're going to spend three four years 347 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:31.519 with Julia? And how long did it take? 348 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.200 Yeah, I mean you could say it took it. 349 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.519 It was three years from the time that we sort 350 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.200 of first considered maybe doing it and the time the 351 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:41.960 film came out. But like the first year of that 352 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.920 is just trying to make the whole thing happen and 353 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:45.559 trying to get someone who's going to fund it, and 354 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.880 trying to get the various entities, mainly the Julia Child 355 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:56.200 Foundation as well as WGBH, the the Boston PBS station 356 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:58.759 that had you know, rights to so much of that archive. 357 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.759 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 358 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.319 and now back to the show. 359 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.640 Like getting everyone on board kind of took a year 360 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.240 and then two years basically to make the film, and 361 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.319 like the decision was as for the reasons that you said, 362 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.319 because because Julia was groundbreaking and groundbreaking in ways that 363 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.240 we're going to let us in our film show the 364 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:29.079 context of like what was the crappy food that Americans 365 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.799 were eating in the pre Julia era? What was the 366 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.279 vision of women on television that was being that we're 367 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.440 you know, being elevated before Julia came on the scene. Like, 368 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.480 in order to understand how big a leap she made, 369 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.559 you had to know what the world was before, and 370 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.920 that gave us the opportunity in our film to like 371 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:48.000 set those contexts. 372 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.960 And we knew because we know those worlds, like we 373 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:52.319 know about food. 374 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:54.559 And we know about sexism, So we understood that we 375 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.119 would be able so that it would actually be pretty 376 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.519 entertaining to lay that stuff out into film form. 377 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.680 Yeah. And what I loved also is that you you 378 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.880 really focused on the love story, like her love story 379 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:10.000 with her husband is it's just beautiful. On what he 380 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.119 did was groundbreaking as well, a man of his generation 381 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.920 to just push her in the into the spotlight and 382 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:21.119 he was happy in the background. Is so it was, 383 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.160 like you said it in the documentaries, like that just 384 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.240 doesn't that that didn't happen at those guys. 385 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.039 Yeah, yeah, no, I mean we are attracted to story 386 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.960 to subjects who have a good love story, and certainly 387 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:39.160 the Paul and Julia's story is fantastic because it starts 388 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:43.720 out with Paul being the one who is opening up 389 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.200 Julia to the world. You know, she had lived a 390 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.319 rather privileged and sheltered life until she volunteered for World 391 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.799 War Two and met Paul in the in Salon where 392 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.000 they were both posted. And you know, he was a 393 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:02.519 worldly guy ten years old, knew about art culture, knew 394 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.039 about food, you know. So when they married and moved 395 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:10.680 to France for his job with the State Department, that's 396 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:15.440 when Julia just blossomed and discovered her passion for food 397 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.440 and started cooking for Paul, which was really good for him. 398 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:21.960 And we have, you know, a scene in the film 399 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.880 kind of illustrating some of the benefits that Paul and 400 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.079 Julia's love affair in France. And then, as you said, 401 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.559