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Speaker 1: The paranormal UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries. You're listening to Talking Weird

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and Know from a Kevin deep in the northwards. Your hosts,

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Doctor Dean Bertram.

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Speaker 2: Who.

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Speaker 3: Greetings, or my fellow widows and weirdo, It's welcome to

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Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host,

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Dean Bertram, and as always, I'm delighted that you've decided

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to spend the next hour or so of your life

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with me. Wherever you are on this wonderfully weird planet

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and whatever time zone you may be, and if you're

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watching us live at nine pm Central Thursday, if you're

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somewhere in my time zone, or perhaps you're in another

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time zone and perhaps you're listening to it in the future,

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perhaps you're entirely just watching the archived show or listening

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to the audio only version on one of the many

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podcast platforms that this show drops down on the following Friday.

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Wherever you are, greetings, welcome, I'm so happy to have you.

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Hope everybody's having a great week. It's been hard this

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week for me to enjoy myself as much as I

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did at the weekend. I was at the Home Day

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Heritage Festival in Ryanlander. If you've never been there and

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you can get there, I recommend you go next year.

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It's always the weekend before Labor Day weekend. It's filled

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with fantastic talk speakers and vendors, and if you've got kids,

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it's a really fun family event. I mean, the speakers

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are great regardless, but there's so many things for kids

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to do, and often at paranormal conferences that isn't always

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the case, although I suspect at another one coming up

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in July, which we'll be talking about tonight. UFO Days

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also in Wisconsin, there's lots of stuff which is family

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friendly as well. And that brings me to tonight's guest.

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He's the host of Infinite rabbit Hole, which many of

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you are probably aware of. It's a podcast dedicated to

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exploring UAPs, cryptids, consciousness, and the outer edges of human knowledge.

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Featuring a weekly briefing of fringe, current events and news,

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Infinite rabbit Hole keeps listeners on the cutting edge of

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high strangeness happening right now. A US Navy veteran from

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the Chipaw Valley, our guest brings a grounded investigative approach

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to some of the world's most unexplained phenomena. He's also

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the author of a wonderful new book which I'm just

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in the process of reading, almost finished. It's incredible. Uf

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Elmwood a cosmic piece of the UFO Puzzle. You can

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get that on Amazon. I'll also have the link to

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where you can just click through in the show notes,

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and it's a deep dive into the history of high

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strangeness in Elmwood, Wisconsin, one of the most UFO active

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communities in the country, and through Infinite rabbit Hole and

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his related projects, our guest has built a passionate community

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of curious minds who aren't afraid to go down the

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rabbit hole with him. So I'm delighted to welcome to

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talk weird. And I have a bad film going to blow.

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The pronunciation of his surname, Jeremy Soka so Sha so

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shut and you I get it wrong and I'm so

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bad with names. Jeremy Sosha. I forgot to ask before

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we started matter. So good, haven't you here?

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's great being here. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Man. I'm loving your book. It's such as just a

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it's a I think it particularly interests me for a

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bunch of reasons. A. Anybody who watches the show regularly

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knows UFOs and my wheelhouse. B. You are insightful enough

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to look at the high strangeness in Elmwood from all

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these different fantastic approaches and fantastic perspectives, which we'll get into.

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As I was mentioning in the briefly before we went,

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you talk about geological anomalies, you talk about the history

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the focal or, you talk about modern UFO reports, you

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talk about I suppose governments, interactions, and almost perhaps even

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almost psyops, but certainly studies, all kinds of weird stuff.

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So it's a multi leveled approach to the phenomenon, which

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I think is always the best, the UFO phenomen But

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also I'm super curious because it's in my state. I

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now live in Wisconsin. I knew a little bit about it,

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but nothing as much about as much about the whole

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UFO mystery in Elmwood, which is which you cover so

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well in the book. Maybe maybe that's where you could

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jump off. Maybe you could tell me what got you

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interested and tell our audience what got you interested in

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writing this very very much needed book. From what I

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can tell in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Wow. No, I appreciate the opportunity to tell the story

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of how I even discovered Elmwood. Honestly, I guess the

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real story starts with my service time. I spent eight

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years in the United States, maybe the last the last

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base I was at was in Morphilk, Virginia, and I

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had started the Infinite rabbit Hole podcast, something I've been

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pretty much obsessed with for the entirety of my life,

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whether it be in the pub like I or you know,

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just closet conversations with some few close friends. I got

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medically retired from the Navy. They said, hey, you can't

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do this anymore. Too much going on, time for you

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to get out of here. It was kind of bummed

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out about it. Not gonna lie, still wish I was

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in the position I was in. Loved it. Didn't want

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to do anything else in my life other than do

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the podcast. That was something else I really wanted to do.

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Speaker 3: But well, thanks for your service too, just quickly, and

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I'm sorry that you had to be medically retired.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it happens, it happens. I'm not going to

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go down that path. We're here for fun stuff, right,

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So they asked me where I wanted to go, and

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sitting down with my wife just kind of picking through

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some of the states, and she's like, how about we

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go somewhere where we can be close to her family

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but far enough to where you know, it's not every

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week kind of thing. So put a couple resumes out

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there with with help from a fantastic group called the

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Lucas Group that helps veterans get placed in really good jobs.

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The first place that answered me back was in Boyceville, Wisconsin,

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and I arrived kind of talking a little bit about,

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you know, my side project, the Infinite rabbit Hole, and

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some of the things I'm interested in. Then ount know where,

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just this, this town of Elmwood just started popping up everywhere.

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It doesn't matter who I was talking to, Elmwood got

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brought up. Obviously this was a place I needed to

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look into. I let myself settle into the area for

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about a year before I reached out to anybody in Elmwood.

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I even let Ufo days pass me by one whole year.

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I knew it was happening and just wanted to get

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established him a new job. Shortly after Elmwood of twenty

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twenty three, I reached out to the president of the festival,

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Amy Beshler, phenomenal, phenomenal person. By the way, I highly

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recommend if you guys ever go to UFO Days, find Amy.

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She is just the sweetest thing. And she was so

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welcoming to me and my curiosity, my millions and millions

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of questions about this beautiful place out in the middle

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of nowhere. And she before I was even asking about

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anything UFO Days related, you know, I just kind of

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gave her a pitch. I sold myself to you, to

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her if you will, And She's like, just why don't

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you come on out meet me on Main Street and

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I'll give you a tour of Elmwood. And I said, okay,

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So me and my co host Jake, we drove down

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there and met up with her right outside the Sandbar

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bar and girl, right there on Main Street Elmwood, jumped

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in her car and she just drove us around to

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all the places, told us the stories right there. It

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was I should have tipped her a thousand dollars. I

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did because it was amazing.

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Speaker 3: It was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Amy, I'd never heard of this place,

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and I obsess over this. I have over eight hundred

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books on the subject of just weird, strange stuff, and

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not once have I heard of Elmwood, Wisconsin, Like, why

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is this not out there? She's like, I don't know.

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I know a lot of people over here. They got

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a bad taste in their mouths in eighty eight when

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they when some of the main players in the entire

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story of Elmwood showed up on the Heraldo Show and

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he kind of made fun of them. Came out in

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February nineteen eighty eight. I watched the show. There was

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some playful banter going on. There were some some things

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that can be perceived as rude being said, But at

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the same time, you got to understand he's an entertainer.

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He's there to do a job. I don't hold anything

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against him myself because of that. You know, I'm sure

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if you talk to him away from the microphone, away

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from the cameras, he probably would have had a really

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serious conversation with them and done a great job. But

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the people of Elmwood, it's slow moving out there that

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they're not They don't want to be made fun of.

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Speaker 3: And especially then too, I think, like eighty eight, it

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was a different time to post. You know, twenty seven, saying,

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I think there's the media landscape's chain. But I can

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see why back then the instinct would have been leaning

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into the city. It's just the way the press almost

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everywhere was handling it at that period.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that the town just shut down.

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You know, they really didn't want to talk about it.

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The UFO Days was kind of their one guilty pleasure

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a year where they can come out and just kind

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of talk about it. Really what it is, it's a

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huge fundraiser for the town. It's not really you don't

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see a ton of locals there, right, I see that.

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You have a highlight of question there by Ken, What

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is Elwood famous for? Almwood's famous for UFO Days and

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dairy farming. That's it. That's really it. Not a lot

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of not a lot going on out there. The population

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in the twenty twenty census was just under eight hundred people.

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It's really just this little downtown area and then it

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just spreads out to farmland past that. But really my

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biggest interest in it was why isn't this not a story?

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Why are we not talking about this? Why if there

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was so much going on in the seventies, why did

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I not hear a single word about this? Why do

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I not hear?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: Why are they not books and a documentary done on this?

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And and he was just she didn't feel that way.

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She was very open about some of the things that

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she saw. But she said a lot of people around

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here just don't want to talk about it if they

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don't want to become laughing stocks. And I said, I

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understand that, but you have a heck of a story here.

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And it was literally that day where the first thought

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of writing this book cross my mind. It was actually,

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I've been writing a book for a different book for

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four years now, and I put that down. I said,

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this is where I need to work. I think I

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have a long answer there.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, I love long answers. I'm not somebody who

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loves SoundBite, so I prefer to get into the real

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depth of the story. You were right, Elmwood isn't something

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that's probably talked about enough. Particularly as you read your book,

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you're so conscious of how strange the area is, particularly

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with those UFO sidings, which I think we'll slide into

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in a minute in the nineteen seventies, the ones which

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probably made the area most famous for UFOs. In fact,

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the only the only place I could remember reading about it,

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and you cite the book a lot is in is

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Howard Blums out there. I remember I remember the Elmwood

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case being covered a bit in that book, but it's

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not something that you're right gets covered in a lot

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of the UFO literature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty baren. I mean, there's a couple stories

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or a couple of books that are written where it

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shows up as a or it just shows up as

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something being thrown out there as a random factoid. It's

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not something where people are have ever really dove into.

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Howard Blum really does probably the biggest deep dive ever

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prior to the book that I wrote, and even that,

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it was more or less a story of government being

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interested in the phenomenon, and Elmwood was discussed as a

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tool to kind of push the narrative that he was

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talking about of this secretive what they called the UFO

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Working Group in DC at the time, and he kind

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of used that and the interest that they had in

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Elmwood was the story that he attached to it. From

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the Elmwood side.

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Speaker 3: I think we'll get into some of the fake NASA

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operatives wandering around question people and things later. It's so interesting,

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but maybe, I mean, your book goes back to stories

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of you know, the native people and the things they believed,

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and it goes through spook lights and you know, eighteen

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ninety seven mystery air ship sidings, which elm Would had

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as well as the rest of the country. But maybe

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the best point of entry is kind of where you

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start the experiences in the book, and that's those encounters

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in the seventies, which really I suppose brought attention to

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this place as a town which was having multiple witnesses,

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including their police officer, including things which seem to be menacing,

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really physically hurting people, physically chasing people. I know, I

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want to hear you tell I've only just read most

242
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of them, and they're fascinating. But I bet you people

243
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out there who haven't heard it extensively would love to

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hear it as well. So could you maybe just jump

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in there anywhere you want so I'll give you the floor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem. The story of Elmwood really starts off

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with the Big Three. It's not that these are the

248
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first sightings. These are just the big ones, the ones

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that did catch the eye of the at least the

250
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area around here. The third of the Big three really

251
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caught the national attention, but the start off. In nineteen

252
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seventy five, a woman by the name of Carol Forrester

253
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was driving home to Elmwood from her parents' house in Arkansas, Wisconsin,

254
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when an orange light appeared over her car. When she

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was driving to her home. She shared this drive with

256
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her oldest daughter in the front seat and her son

257
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and other daughter in the back seat. She was also

258
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eight months pregnant at the time. Now, it followed her

259
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for about fifteen minutes, so this is a good distance.

260
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The closer that she got to home, the closer this

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thing got to her. And when she finally passed a

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property that she knew the owners to, she had this

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quick fleeting thought, maybe I should stop and get somebody

264
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else involved in this. She actually went against her initial

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thoughts here and moved past the property before the object

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overshot her car. Now, when it did overtake her car,

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she stopped and backed up into the driveway of one

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of her friend's house and got out knocked on her door.

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The residents there came out and witnessed this thing kind

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of dancing over the tree line across their property. The

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big thing about this was this wasn't one person saying, hey,

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I saw something. This was a car full of people

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and a second, a whole second family that came out

274
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of their house and saw this thing. Now, the whole

275
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time that they're watching it, it never really moved from

276
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the tree line, which was just a few acres beyond

277
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where they were standing. So Carol felt as if it

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was safe to get back into the car and continued

279
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driving to her house, which was only a few miles away.

280
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It wasn't very far, but as soon as she got

281
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into her car and pulled out of the driveway again,

282
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she got just past where she originally stopped, and this

283
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object shot out from the tree line and passed her

284
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car once again and came down to almost landing on

285
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the road in front of her. She just slammed on

286
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her brakes once again. This time she put the car

287
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right back in reverse and laid on the horn pulled

288
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into the driveway. The husband of this house came out

289
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and said, okay, I've had enough of this, jumped in

290
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his truck, and he followed her all the way home,

291
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and the whole time that he followed her home, this

292
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object also was following him. When they got to the house,

293
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she made it inside. That object took over her house

294
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and kind of settled over a field in the in

295
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the back of her property. After that, the object didn't

296
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really pay attention to the gentleman who followed her home.

297
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He went back home eventually that a little later that

298
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night her her husband Bud showed up and they both

299
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witnessed this thing sitting out over the property as if

300
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it's waiting for them. Sooner or later, it eventually took off,

301
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And that's the story of Carol Forrester.

302
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Speaker 3: It's a terrifying story. I mean, it must be one

303
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:48,960
of the scarier stories in the UFO cannon. There's something

304
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about the seventies. I was thinking this when I was

305
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reading your book. I became super conscious of it. Because

306
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there's other stories we're going to hit this willan a minute,

307
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which are which are in some ways even scarier. But

308
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,599
there are these reports throughout the broader space that you

309
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and I and listeners of this show were into. Whether

310
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,400
it's Bigfoot or whether it's you know, UFOs or there

311
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seem to be more encounters with things that seemed to

312
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,559
be like after the observer in a hostile manner, there's

313
00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:20,880
so many. I mean, just just reading the book, lots

314
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of other lots of other you know, reports came to mind,

315
00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,160
including ones with bigfoots grabbing teen ages and the momo

316
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,319
you know, creature, and there's a bunch in there's a

317
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bunch throughout this type of space we're in. They seemed

318
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,519
we don't seem to get as many of those type stories,

319
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:38,000
to Dave, have you noticed that they don't seem to

320
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,319
be as many stories of UFOs attacking cars and zapping

321
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,640
policemen and bigfoot reaching in windows and grabbing teenagers and

322
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,960
there was I don't know why, but in the seventies

323
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,960
it seems like this type of the phenomenon seemed to

324
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be more aggressive for lack of a better term.

325
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't know what to attest to the

326
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,599
you know, the reasons behind that. It does show up,

327
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,000
you know, every once in a while you get a

328
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,200
good class ace sighting out of the BFRO where somebody

329
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,960
reports something just as you're reporting there. But you're right,

330
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,759
the seventies was kind of a dangerous time, especially in Elmwood. Yeah. No,

331
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,920
it's a good question, it really is. It's something that

332
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,200
I wish, you know, I had more time to jump into.

333
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 3: So so that's that's kind of the UFO case which

334
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,799
you kick off the book with, and it kind of

335
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,880
kicks off I suppose this kind of flap in Elmwood.

336
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:41,319
But then perhaps the next most fascinating report, well there's

337
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,359
two involving the same police officer, and that might be

338
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,759
that might be the case that is most famous from Elmwood.

339
00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:51,200
It certainly i'd heard of. I'd heard of the police

340
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,119
officer's experiences before. I can't remember if i'd heard of

341
00:20:54,279 --> 00:20:57,079
the terrifying when you just told. But maybe maybe you

342
00:20:57,079 --> 00:20:59,599
could feel us in a little bit about his two sidings,

343
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,200
which a year of the day apart, I think, right.

344
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: Yes, actually just just a few days apart over a year,

345
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:13,000
so three hundred and sixty one days. I believe it

346
00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:19,720
was completely His first encounter was a little bit more subtle.

347
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He came to an intersection on the county road where

348
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:27,440
he could either go left or right, and as he

349
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was standing there, he was on patrol at the time.

350
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As he was standing there in his cruiser, he saw

351
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what he first thought was a fireball something some astral

352
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,880
body cruising across in front of his windshield. Quarter of

353
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,599
a mile out. As he's sitting there looking at this thing,

354
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,480
it gets bigger and starts. It's not coming at him,

355
00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:02,039
but it's definitely growing inside. It's still moving from his

356
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,359
left side to his right, and he starts to change

357
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,680
his opinion about it, and he starts thinking, man, I

358
00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:11,599
think this is an airliner on fire. This is going

359
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,079
to crash. So as it surpassed his field of view,

360
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he took a right out onto the other county road

361
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and followed it for as far as he could. When

362
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,720
he got to where it was no longer moving, he

363
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:28,480
parked on the side of the road there and watched

364
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:34,200
as this football field sized craft hovered over this field

365
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:41,599
and then just simply took off. So it ended up

366
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:47,240
not being a downed airliner. He did get on dispatch.

367
00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:54,039
There are records of police blotter notes being taken about

368
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:59,960
his specific call to the dispatch about a possible mascot

369
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,799
event including an airliner going down in the in and

370
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:08,680
around the Elmwood area. But that's really not the big

371
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,440
one that is considered one of the big three. But

372
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the really big one one that you were referring to.

373
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It happens just shy of a year later where up

374
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:25,400
on the hill just outside of downtown Elmwood, there's this

375
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:29,880
quarry and there was a phone call or a call

376
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,799
to the police station in the area that there somebody

377
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,640
was concerned that there was a fire at the quarry.

378
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960
They were seeing this orange glow up on the hill.

379
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,920
So he responded he went up there, took a look,

380
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,319
and when he got up there, he saw this orange

381
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:52,160
illuminated craft. He got on the dispatch and said, I'm

382
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,920
looking at another UFO right now, right now, right over

383
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,240
the alfalfa field next to the quarry. He reported a

384
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:08,839
couple of weird details, including portholes, a tripod legs system,

385
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,559
a black appendage that that was coming down from the

386
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,799
craft itself all the way down to the ground in

387
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:18,599
the alf alfa field. But as he's on the radio,

388
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,279
everything just stops, and the next time we see him,

389
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:30,720
we get a passer by that reports that they passed

390
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,039
the area where he was and discovered him hunched over,

391
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:43,920
his steering column knocked out completely. So his his wife

392
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,359
was listening to the police scanner at the time, and

393
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:57,079
the the officer that was, you know, the primary officer

394
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,559
in the area, was also listening to the police skinner

395
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,400
and they both kind of rushed out there and discovered

396
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,000
this gentleman who found Officer George Wheeler, by the way,

397
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,680
I don't know if I ever said his name in

398
00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:15,200
the position that he was in. From there, he claimed

399
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,400
to have been flashed by this brilliant blue light coming

400
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,880
from this object, and next thing he knows, he's being

401
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,119
woken up by this gentleman who was passing by, actually

402
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:36,440
bringing his babysitter home. Over that night, he was brought

403
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,599
to a hospital in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and after a few

404
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,599
days he was given a clean bill of health, said hey,

405
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,480
you're good to go. That didn't last long. He within

406
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:54,079
three days, he basically was rushed to a hospital at

407
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,799
No Claire, and he was under the assumption that he

408
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:04,079
was stuff from radiation poisoning. That's not what the doctors

409
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,759
decided it was. But now that we have more research

410
00:26:09,839 --> 00:26:13,200
done on radiation poisoning and knowing the difference between alpha

411
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,039
betas and gamma rays, it does go very well in

412
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:23,119
hand with what gamma ray radiation poisoning looks like. It

413
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,880
looks like he did have a lot of those symptoms.

414
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:33,319
He suffered from massive migraines, blackouts, skin contusions, really just

415
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,759
a plethora of really nasty things that I know I

416
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:43,440
don't want happening to me. Unfortunately, only eight months after

417
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,160
this second incident, he suffered a massive hearttack and passed away.

418
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,480
And from every source that I can find, from newspapers

419
00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:59,960
to talking to people in person, to talking too Peer

420
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,720
County Historical Society, he did not have a very good

421
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,839
last eight months of his life.

422
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,079
Speaker 3: It's a terrible story, and it's it's one again. It's

423
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,680
not one we hear regularly. I mean, there are definitely

424
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,200
in particularly there's probably more from from South America and

425
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,920
Central America, but it isn't something we hear that often

426
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:27,839
in the American you know, UFO, you know record. I

427
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:30,720
suppose there's like the cash Landrum, you a report where

428
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,759
people get you know, seriously injured and poison and get

429
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:37,240
cancer from it and the like. But this this is

430
00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:39,799
like the thing actually blasts him like it isn't that

431
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:41,559
he's just near it. It's like he gets hit by

432
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,839
this beam from it. Right, So it's a it's a

433
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,440
terrifying story. But the whole area, and maybe we can

434
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:50,480
step in here a little bit. Now, the whole area

435
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:53,559
is kind of as you mentioned, kills term in there

436
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:57,960
a window area like there is this triangle I guess

437
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,640
called the Peace County Triangle which elm Would sits in,

438
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:08,920
and this whole part of western Wisconsin is really just

439
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,480
a window where. It's a hot spot and it has

440
00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:13,880
been for perhaps time immemorial, weird things happening. Can you

441
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,440
talk a little bit about that as a zone and

442
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,519
it being a window where and perhaps a little bit

443
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,559
of some of the geological anomalies and other things that

444
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,839
are at the heart of the heart of the perhaps

445
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,960
the mystery here.

446
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, So really the to paint the picture of this area,

447
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,799
start off with the definition of what the Pierce County

448
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,359
Triangle is, the Piers County Triangle. The three points of

449
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,880
the Piers Counting Triangle is Elmwood, Wisconsin, Plum City, Wisconsin,

450
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:49,160
and Ellsworth, Wisconsin. Now the book, the entirety of the

451
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,839
book takes place pretty much within the borders of these

452
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,799
three points. I had to limit it somewhere because even

453
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:03,400
outside of this triangle of towns still weird things going on.

454
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:06,359
But I had to draw the line somewhere. I had

455
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,720
to limit the book in some way, shape or form.

456
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,680
So thank you for bringing up John Keel, by the way,

457
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,039
and his concepts of window areas. What is a window area? Well,

458
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,680
to John Keel, it is a literal overlapping of dimensional

459
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:32,640
space or parallel space, right where this veil between realities

460
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:36,599
kind of gets thin and sometimes things seet through. One

461
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,440
of the biggest window areas and most famous window areas

462
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,680
of right now is Skinwalker Ranch out in the you

463
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:45,759
into Basin of Utah, Right. I mean, when anybody talks

464
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:48,599
about a window area, that's probably the number one place

465
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,880
that pops up. So what makes a window area? Why

466
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:57,799
is this place considered a window area? Well, there's a

467
00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:01,039
lot just like in you went to Basin, when you

468
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:05,839
had the utes in the Navajo. They this area in

469
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:11,359
the northeast corner of Utah was a transitional space between

470
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,960
two territories. Same thing here, right, We had the exact

471
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,400
same thing going on here.

472
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:18,279
Speaker 1: Uh.

473
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: These transitional spaces between native lands are known for being

474
00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:29,119
hotspots for paranormal activity, for just strange stories in general.

475
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:34,160
Then you add what you kind of gave me a

476
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,039
nod towards, which was the rock Elm disturbance. And this

477
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:41,319
is the big argument that I make in the book.

478
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,240
I had to step back and say, Okay, there's a

479
00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:48,440
lot of really cool things going on here, but why

480
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,599
why is that? Well, instead of looking at hey, this

481
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,960
has this in common with this weird place, and this

482
00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:59,440
has this come with this weird place. Something has to

483
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:06,039
be standing out, So what's different? Right? So I came

484
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:14,079
across the work of Professor William Cordua and he's a

485
00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:20,920
geologist seat of the Science Department at University of Wisconsin, Whitewater,

486
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:28,759
and he was the discoverer, if you will, of the

487
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,480
rock Elm Disturbance. And what is the rock Elm Disturbance.

488
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:37,440
The rock Elm Disturbance is a astrological impact site from

489
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:41,799
the Palaeozoic era, so five hundred and forty one to

490
00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,680
two hundred and fifty two million years ago. Now, a

491
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:52,079
specific period within this era was the Ortovokian Era or

492
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,559
period sorry, which was aboutest span of a I think

493
00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:02,039
forty years or so. Something crashed into the land here

494
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,119
or right there near Elmwood in the rock Elm township,

495
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,960
which is only about four miles to the southwest of Elmwood.

496
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,079
And if you look at the geological formation or mapping

497
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,279
of the rock Elm Disturbance, Elmwood sits basically right at

498
00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:24,559
the one thirty mark one thirty two o'clock area of

499
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:30,799
this giant crater. Let's talk about the land a little bit.

500
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:35,160
At the time when this happened, this land, the land

501
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,799
I'm in right now in Menomine, Wisconsin, was underwater. It

502
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:47,640
was a very shallow sea. Shallow what was the name

503
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,039
that they used for it, eperiod sea basically means the

504
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,640
center of a continent, So it's not attached to an

505
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,039
ocean or anything like that. Just a big piece of

506
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:03,799
water in the middle of North America. You know what

507
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,559
we recognized as North America. And how do we know

508
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,200
that there was an impact site here? A couple different things. Now,

509
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:18,200
if you were to go to Pierce County and let's say,

510
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,000
sit on the rim of the Rock Elm Disturbance, You're

511
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,200
gonna look out and you say, I just see rolling hills,

512
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:32,839
That's all I see, which is true. But William Cordua,

513
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,119
as a geologist, saw things that just didn't fit. We

514
00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:47,559
were seeing rocks, minerals that were typically found down by

515
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:52,200
the bedrock in normal areas of the planet, up by

516
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,920
the surface. Now, how could that have happened? There is

517
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,720
this area of the rock Elm disturbance. It's called the

518
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:08,920
central uplift, and we get these central uplift effects by

519
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:17,079
a absolutely massive impact from something exterior to the planet.

520
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,280
Earthquakes will not create this. Volcanoes will not create this.

521
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,840
The only way to get this is from an astral

522
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,920
body slimming into the planet. Basically, the concept is like this.

523
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,079
If I were to take a body of water, let's

524
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:36,840
say a pond, and I took a rock and I

525
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,400
threw it out there, the drop and the splash that

526
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,280
would come from the rock hit in the water would

527
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,400
create this effect where the rock hits down into the

528
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,840
water and then you get this tear drop that pops

529
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,679
up and then comes back down. That's your central uplift.

530
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,719
That's why we were getting all these things that were

531
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:05,159
typically buried so far down to be up near the surface. Okay,

532
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,480
that's one sign. Two other signs comes in specific rocks. Okay,

533
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:17,199
redite and shocked quartz. Now shocked quartz happens in I

534
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:25,320
can't remember the exact pressure, two to five giga pascals. Again,

535
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,559
cannot get this from volcanic activity, cannot get this from

536
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:36,480
plate tectonic activity, can't get this from any terrestrial anything. Okay,

537
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,280
the only way to do this is with a gigantic

538
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:46,280
nuclear bomb or a n astral impact. That's it. All

539
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,400
the other signs in the area are saying this is ancient.

540
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:56,400
There was no atomic weaponry four hundred and fifty million

541
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,480
years ago. Then you had reade. Redite only shows up

542
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:08,719
in very few locations around the world. Reedite actually needs

543
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,639
thirty gigapascals of pressure, so even ten times more than

544
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,639
what shot Courts needs. As soon as they found redite,

545
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,199
this guy officially registered as an impact site on any

546
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,760
national geologic survey anything it made the list is this

547
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,239
was an impact site. Can't say otherwise. Now, if we

548
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,199
look around around the planet at some of the more

549
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:46,360
I wouldn't say famous areas that share the same symptoms.

550
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,800
We'll just look one at one right here in the US,

551
00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:53,039
the Chesapeake Bay. Chesapeake Bay was an impact crater. It

552
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,960
also has shocked Courts. It also has redite, right and

553
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,639
I though also.

554
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:01,199
Speaker 3: The book talks about the Serpent and in Ohio being

555
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:02,039
one of those as well.

556
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: Right, the Serpent Mountain, Ohio is another one. Absolutely, what

557
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,559
do those two places have in common? They've got weird

558
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,679
stuff in the sky. Right in fact, the largest United

559
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:21,960
States base on the planet, one of the biggest military

560
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,159
bases in the entire planet, no matter what country is

561
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,440
US Naval Station Norfolk, right there on the Chesapeake Bay.

562
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:34,360
I was there for five years of my service, and

563
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:39,400
I had the luxury of having direct access to a

564
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,039
lot of the pilots. I was an aviation electricians mate.

565
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:47,440
I worked on the electrical distribution and generation of electrical

566
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:54,039
equipment on multi billion dollar flying machines, and I had

567
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,880
access to a lot of these pilots. And you know,

568
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:59,519
me being the curious person, one of the first questions

569
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:02,639
I asked him seeing any weird things, man, you know,

570
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,199
and uh, you know, it takes them warming up. You know,

571
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:07,760
they're not going to come out and be like, oh yeah, no.

572
00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:10,639
You know, you got to get to know them. And eventually,

573
00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:13,480
towards the end of your your tenure there, they start

574
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,599
to open up. You know, you got to go on

575
00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:16,800
a few deployments with them and get to know them.

576
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:22,159
Beat them in in uh and uh spades it's a

577
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:26,039
card game, uh and and whatever video game system that

578
00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:27,480
they have. You just got to show them with Boston

579
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,800
and then they tend to open up a little bit.

580
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:34,199
But it's a there's a there's a lot of other

581
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:40,079
places too, right, the Chesapeake Bay and the Serpa Amount

582
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:42,360
are just a few examples I can give you. But

583
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,119
there's a spot out in Germany, there's a spot out

584
00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:49,440
in uh in the waters between Japan and the mainland.

585
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,719
There there's an area that's very similar to it.

586
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: And does that have strange reports as well? Yeah, well

587
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,239
that kind of answers. I didn't. I didn't have time

588
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,480
to put it up on screen, but I think we're

589
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:05,199
kind of addressing it now. Horace Horrace Smith is Professor

590
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:09,199
Emeris of Astronomy in Physics at Michigan State University, and

591
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,880
he asked, are UFO is seen especially often from well

592
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,079
Elmwood or over Elmwood? If so, why Elmwood? And I

593
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:18,119
think one of the things you're suggesting here as well

594
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:20,400
as in the book, is that it could have something

595
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,400
to do with this this ancient I guess meteorite hit

596
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,119
on the planet and the way that scarred and damaged

597
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,519
I guess the landscape all around it, and the magnetic

598
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:36,800
or the the i that might be even the correct term,

599
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,360
but the anomaly that's then caused by this kind of

600
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,159
disruption to the Earth really right.

601
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:49,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the way that I've heard it put, especially

602
00:39:49,199 --> 00:39:52,360
with these these strange impact sites and some of the

603
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,800
anominalies that that are that just appear in the sky

604
00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:04,960
over them, is if you're looking for something strange, right

605
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,559
you come to Earth, no matter where you're coming from,

606
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,480
there's something that you can find anywhere, any everywhere, at

607
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,159
any time which you can't find is a magnetic anominally

608
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:22,000
near the surface of the planet. Now we see here

609
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,880
or right down the road in Elmwood, birds act strange.

610
00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:31,519
Cows in the fields will not go to certain parts

611
00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:33,360
of their fields. This is something I've talked to a

612
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,079
lot of the farmers about. There's just areas of this

613
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,119
area where animals act weird. They tend to stay away

614
00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:51,559
from Compasses will go weird, Clocks or watches will go nuts.

615
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:58,280
Mechanical and electronic equipment, not just not just electronics, but

616
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,719
just mechanical equipment. And that's one of your your your

617
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,800
biggest clues that this could be a magnetic anomaly is

618
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,280
that mechanical items without any electronics in it whatsoever, there's

619
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,320
no emp effect, there's no none of that. This is

620
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:20,440
something that's being you know, gears right, metal gears being affected.

621
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 3: By the environment and maybe us two. Yeah.

622
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah. If you ever go to UFO Days, make

623
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,880
sure you get their free Wi Fi password because your

624
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,599
phone's not gonna work there. Oh wow, Yeah, it's strange.

625
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,599
I can't like when I go down there. I gotta

626
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,880
I gotta say anywhere where were we meeting? Because once

627
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,039
I head down there, I'm not touch.

628
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:47,159
Speaker 3: We're looking forward with myself and my girlfriend coming to

629
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,039
UFO Days this year, and we'll probably because it looks

630
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:52,440
like it's quite family friendly. We just did hodagg with

631
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,480
two of our daughters, who you know, love the weed

632
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:56,920
and stuff as well, so we'll probably bring our daughters

633
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,360
as well to it. It seems like it'd be a

634
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,800
lot of a lot of fun for kids too, with

635
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,840
the UFO parade on the Sunday and everything.

636
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Sunday is very kid friendly. They got you know,

637
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,519
little tight tractor pulls and and pancakes. They do a

638
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,960
marathon there. You know, kids are dressed up in costumes,

639
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,599
they have UFO burgers. It's all kinds of fun on

640
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:24,400
on Sunday. Saturday is really the big day, right, That's

641
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,880
that's when all all the weird ones come out and

642
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:31,039
they've got the boot set up and I'm doing the

643
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:35,639
bus tours. We got presentations lined up in the auditorium.

644
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,639
Speaker 3: I think, I think, yeah, I think I'm speaking at

645
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:39,960
six and showing the Shaven Mystery film. I'm coming on

646
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,760
your bus tour though I really want to. I really

647
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,280
want to do that too. I'm looking forward to that.

648
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: I look forward to giving you one man I do.

649
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,559
Last year was my first time doing it, and uh

650
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,199
it is because the first year that I ever spent

651
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,599
in Elmwood for UFO days was two years ago. All

652
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,000
I did was present the story of Elmwood. It was

653
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:02,840
just a a thirty minute presentation on what I had

654
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,800
discovered on the story of Elmwood, you know, with with

655
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,599
the resources that I had that. Immediately after that, they

656
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:18,599
handed me a giant binder with all the copies of

657
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,480
every newspaper, clipping, every everything. Actually I should show that

658
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:24,119
to you, really.

659
00:43:24,639 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: You go grab it. I'll keep talking. It's wonderful when

660
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,760
you get your hands on so wonderful when you get

661
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,000
your hands on original primary sources like that.

662
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:38,039
Speaker 2: Oh cool, Yeah, there was my microphone, but yeah, it's uh,

663
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:41,360
I mean, they let me see if I can't lower

664
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,280
my camera a little.

665
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 3: I was going to get look at the one at

666
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,239
the library because in your book that said they had

667
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,400
a bunch of clippings in the library. But this looks

668
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,360
like you've kind of got it.

669
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: This is what it is. And if you come to

670
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,119
UFO days, this sits on my booth.

671
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 3: Oh fantastic, yep.

672
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,199
Speaker 2: Anybody, I allow anybody and everybody to look through this.

673
00:43:59,199 --> 00:44:02,119
This was handed to me from the library and the

674
00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:07,679
Pierce County Historical Society. Well, so everything that I have

675
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,960
in my book, a lot of it comes directly from this.

676
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:19,079
Speaker 3: I mean, that's credible. Did you find speaking of that?

677
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:21,920
Obviously there have been plenty of people who have helped

678
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,400
you in your investigation, your research of the area. But

679
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,800
in the book too, you mentioned that at least back

680
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,599
in the day, the town was quite divided between those

681
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:37,119
people who who looked at the UFO fame or notoriety

682
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:39,639
around the area something positive because it brought, you know,

683
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,639
tourists in and you could have a celebration, and that

684
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:44,480
part of you know, seemed all good and healthy. But

685
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,039
then there were either perhaps you might even call them

686
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:49,280
the silent majority back then, who just kind of didn't

687
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,119
want you know, the association with UFO weirdness, and then

688
00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:55,960
there was also a smaller kind of religious minority, particularly

689
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,440
one I think Pastor and his family who very much

690
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,880
were against the idea of celebrating UFOs. Is there still

691
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,239
that type of division there or is that has that changed?

692
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: Okay? So there was this kind of strange realization that

693
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,639
I had the first year I was in Elmwood, and

694
00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:17,239
then was kind of reaffirmed again last year, and I'm

695
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,840
curious if it continues with this year's festival. I see

696
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,639
this a lot in my just random trips to Elmwood

697
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:27,119
to go hang out, you know where I just go

698
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:30,400
to Historical Society or go to one of the restaurants

699
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,559
I like to go and just talk to people, you know,

700
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:36,159
outside of the environment at UFO days and kind of

701
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:40,559
see how they are away from from all the festivities.

702
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:47,679
I've recognized that there is a very strange line those

703
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:54,280
people who grew up there, who are you know, born, raised,

704
00:45:54,639 --> 00:45:59,119
went to school at the K through twelve. By the way,

705
00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:03,199
A Forrester was a third grade teacher right there in Elmwood.

706
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,440
Her son Tom, who is in the backseat, owns the

707
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,440
Sandbar Girl right on Main Street.

708
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: Wow.

709
00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: So by all means, you know, come to Elmwood, he'll

710
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,079
be he'll be selling cheeseburgers and soda or pop and

711
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,920
he's a great resource, has phenomenal stories. But I've I've

712
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,480
learned that people who were born there and spent the

713
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:30,920
majority of their lives there, even the ones that have

714
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,639
moved away and came back just to just to attend

715
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:39,599
UFO days again, all believe. Every one of them. It's very,

716
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,920
very rarely. I think one or two I've talked to

717
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,840
you and they're like, ah, that's just you know, bs.

718
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,599
It's the people that are implants there, people that moved

719
00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:53,360
there from either around the area or out of state.

720
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,880
You know, they get married, they move into the area.

721
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:02,000
They don't believe. It's there's a the strong line in

722
00:47:02,039 --> 00:47:06,119
the sand, if you will, believers and non believers, and

723
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,320
it really I don't know, I just kind of recognized that, Hey,

724
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,760
if if you weren't born here and raised here, you

725
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,320
don't believe. But those that were, they they wholly believe.

726
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: Wow. Fascinating. Do you do you track reports in the

727
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:28,360
area today? Are there still a whole lot of reports

728
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,880
in the area today? Like what's what's the current state

729
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,239
of the actual phenomenon liking in the area.

730
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: You know, I'll go on to one of a dozen

731
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:41,960
different UFO registries and look, they're still reported.

732
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: Uh.

733
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,599
Speaker 2: Plumb City tends to be one of the more popular

734
00:47:45,639 --> 00:47:50,400
areas right now in the Pierce County triangle. But Elmwood, Rock,

735
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:57,960
elm Ellsworth, they still show up in Pierce County whenever

736
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,719
I go. Like last year, I had a lot more

737
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,639
people talk to me about their incidents. It's very hard

738
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,320
for me to get the approval for them to be

739
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,760
able to put it in the book. That's one thing

740
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,119
you'll notice that the book does kind of lack is

741
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,400
first hand encounter stories. I was able to put one

742
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,119
in there, and they were like, as long as you

743
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:20,760
don't put my name. I've offered to use pseudonyms. I've

744
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,320
offered to use no names whatsoever. And nobody wants their

745
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,960
stories in there. The problem is is that everyone knows

746
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,880
everybody's story, so they know who it is. The people

747
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,039
who live there. If I put their story in there,

748
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,639
you know their neighbor's going to know who it is.

749
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,800
They know that story, so they're very cautious about it.

750
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,280
But to circle back to your question, yes, it is

751
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,000
still going on there. In fact, you said you were

752
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:54,639
close to chapter nine once you get into I think

753
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,400
just after that, I run through just a plethora of

754
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:05,079
stories from the early fifties to two thousands, just kind

755
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:08,760
of give you a mixed bag of stories, most of

756
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,400
them coming out of out of the newspaper clippings right

757
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:19,920
in here and right at the end of it. I've

758
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,719
only seen two weird things in my life, okay. One

759
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,599
one was when I was nine years old, which we'll

760
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:28,239
have to be for another another episode.

761
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 3: Uh, we we'll have to do it. We'll have to

762
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,840
get you back on and talk about that. That'll be fun.

763
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, man. And then the other one was I

764
00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:39,559
was actually at a cookout at the president of the festival,

765
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:44,159
Amy's house, just talking about UFO days, you know, coming up,

766
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:48,159
and I looked off into the sky and there was

767
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:54,079
just this triangle of space in the sky coming from

768
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:58,199
the very top the zenith of you know, space above

769
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,679
my head down to the horizon in a perfect like

770
00:50:01,679 --> 00:50:03,079
like a slice of pizza.

771
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

772
00:50:04,519 --> 00:50:08,599
Speaker 2: What happened was is that it just flashed a shade

773
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,280
lighter than everything else, and it was gone in a

774
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,760
split second. And I specifically right in there like it

775
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,800
was a personal greeting to the area. Like it was.

776
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,199
It was odd. Nobody else saw it. Okay, I'm not

777
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,960
gonna put anybody else on the spotlight because nobody else

778
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,639
saw it. You guys can believe me or not.

779
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,679
Speaker 3: I don't. It's like your personal Elmwood welcomes you sign.

780
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 2: It was cool. It was cool, you know, and I

781
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,400
love this kind of stuff, but I'm not I'm not

782
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,079
chased by it. It's not an everyday occurrence for me. Uh.

783
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:45,280
There's only been two weird things that have happened in

784
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,159
my life, and that's one of them. Man, It's just

785
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:51,559
an odd thing that I saw where literally a slice

786
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:53,519
of the sky just turned a different shade of color

787
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,920
and flashed right back. So it wasn't an orbit, was

788
00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:04,519
isn't a saucer, It wasn't some metallic object or anything.

789
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:08,719
It was just a completely different phenomenon than I even expected.

790
00:51:09,559 --> 00:51:10,599
Speaker 3: This is odd.

791
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: So it just goes to show you that, you know,

792
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:19,920
there could be multiple different kinds of phenomena, different flavors

793
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,000
in the area.

794
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: I'm sure there probably is. If it's a window area.

795
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:27,800
Tell us a little bit about as we're getting close

796
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,719
to it. To ending the hour, tell us a little

797
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,159
bit about how the town came to be known as

798
00:51:33,199 --> 00:51:36,360
Wisconsin's UFO capital, or the UFO Capital of the World,

799
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,519
or the UFO Capital of America, because I've heard it

800
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:40,039
referred to us all those things.

801
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's kind of I don't know, it's kind

802
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:50,559
of a hazy answer, right, There isn't a straightforward answer.

803
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:55,039
A lot of the articles that I that I refer

804
00:51:55,159 --> 00:52:00,920
to in the book, some of them say UFO Capital Wisconsin,

805
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:06,199
u UFO Capital of the World, America, the Midwest. Uh,

806
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:10,639
there's a lot right Technically, as you'll see when you

807
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,960
get to the UFO Days chapter in the book, there's

808
00:52:14,039 --> 00:52:20,239
three UFO capitals of Wisconsin, so and and two of

809
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:27,480
those have UFO Days festivals, right, So one of them

810
00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:29,079
is just spelled with a Z at the end instead

811
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:29,440
of then S.

812
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 3: So it's the one in Dundee, right, which I haven't

813
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:32,880
been to me.

814
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,559
Speaker 2: So it's it's you know, is it because they were

815
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:43,000
trying to sell something? You know. A whole thing that

816
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:46,440
we didn't get to talk about today was the the

817
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,360
the fifty dollar landing site that.

818
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 3: Was you know what I wanted to that's such a

819
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,480
fascinating story, but we just didn't get to it. That

820
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:56,960
is a fantastic story. I mean, maybe you know, if

821
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,840
you want to if we want to go tim minutes over,

822
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,559
I'm happy for you to tell that story, because that's

823
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:01,320
a hicck of a story.

824
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: I mean, really quickly A from man from Triple off Falls,

825
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:11,800
Tom Weber had this plan to create this fifty million

826
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,039
dollar landing site right in Elmwood for UFOs. Twenty five

827
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:19,840
mill was going to go to buildings and facilities, and

828
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,880
twenty five million was going to go to the processing

829
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:27,679
of the land or creation of the surrounding land. This

830
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,639
wasn't going to be just a cement slab. It was

831
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:34,480
going to be a scientific research area. It was going

832
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:37,360
to be an interstellar hotel. It was going to be

833
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:45,039
literally an airport for flying saucers and alien creatures, all

834
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:49,119
equipped with this floating satellite right above Elmwood, where there

835
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:54,159
would be a sign that depicts a human and an

836
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:58,519
alien shaking hands, and then you look down at Elmwood

837
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:02,199
and that same picture would be painted on on on

838
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,039
the ground, so it would be oh, well, they're friendly

839
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:09,599
up here, and that's the same picture, so let's go there.

840
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:13,159
That's how they were going to attract everybody. Obviously that

841
00:54:13,199 --> 00:54:14,400
didn't happen, but.

842
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 3: It's fascinating and almost did that. When I was reading

843
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,880
that part of the book, I was particularly fascinating because

844
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,039
A I didn't know anything about it, but b and

845
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,159
you even referenced it in there that they kind of

846
00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:26,440
were basing it on a Kiho a Donald Keho idea,

847
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,039
because in his book Aliens from Space he spoke extensively

848
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:33,320
about this plan. He had to lure the aliens in

849
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,400
with this you know kind of park, flying saucer and

850
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,000
a landing bay and they'd have hidden cameras and they'd

851
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,320
observe them. And John Q rightfully so said, what an

852
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,519
insane idea it was. It was literally like a cargo

853
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:47,599
cult idea, like you know in Polynesia when after World

854
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:49,679
War two and they wanted the American planes to come

855
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,280
back and bring them more fruit and candy and canned goods,

856
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,480
so they would make bamboo or you know, grass planes.

857
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 2: It would look like they would look like they even

858
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,400
made radio backpacks and goggles. Yeah, the cargo cult thing

859
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:07,559
is crazy. I loved it and.

860
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: It's literally what it's literally what Keiho was suggesting like

861
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,000
we'd be able to trick the aliens in if we

862
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:14,480
just make make this fake looking flying sauce and we'll

863
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,119
have our hidden cameras and we'll capture them like Keyho

864
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,400
had clearly lost his mind, and Kill Thank goodness called

865
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:21,639
him out on it because it was such and it's

866
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:23,480
so hilarious when Keil calls him out on it, because

867
00:55:23,519 --> 00:55:26,760
Keill's got this really you know, really cruel wit when

868
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,599
he wants to have it. So it's just fun fun,

869
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:32,719
So Matt, it was. It was such a joy talking

870
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,280
here today. We do need to get you back on

871
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,039
to talk about more things, because you're somebody who has

872
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,559
such a broad knowledge and a wonderful way of approaching this.

873
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,679
I loved your book UFO Elmwood, a cosmic piece of

874
00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:48,280
the UFO Puzzle, and I have a link in the

875
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,239
show notes of where people can get that on Amazon.

876
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,239
But if you want to point them anywhere else, feel

877
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,440
free to let them know if they should go anywhere

878
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:58,039
else and get it.

879
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: You can find me on any social media, or you

880
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,480
can just go to infinite rabbit hole dot com. Anything

881
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:07,920
dealing with myself, the show, or any of my projects

882
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,079
is right on that website. That's it fantastic.

883
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 3: Can you give me, enclosing, a hint of what your

884
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:15,880
other book was going to be about that you had

885
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,440
to put down?

886
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,519
Speaker 2: I actually finished it ever since.

887
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 3: Wow, congratulations.

888
00:56:25,079 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: It hasn't made it to the editor yet. I can

889
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,239
I can't tell you. This is the first time I'm

890
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:37,719
putting it out publicly, so I'm kind of I'm hones, yeah, no,

891
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,360
this is okay. So it is a it's a compilation

892
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:48,679
piece between three properties in the southwest of the United States.

893
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,960
When I first started Infinite Rabbit Hole, we got recruited

894
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:59,719
to Joe Blow Entertainment's Paranormal Network and we I was

895
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,519
just and some of the small things that I like,

896
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:05,679
you know, drop bears or the Rendall Sham Forest incident,

897
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,039
and they were like, we need something bigger. This is

898
00:57:08,039 --> 00:57:11,119
a big network. Let's let's do something. How about Skinwalker Ranch?

899
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,199
And I was like, oh, yeah, sure, So I you know,

900
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,800
I had on my shelf, I had the Hunt of

901
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,280
Skinwalker by Kella her Nap and that said, you know,

902
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,679
I was just like, man, why didn't I ever just

903
00:57:23,719 --> 00:57:25,360
picked U up and read this before? I've owned it

904
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:30,760
for three years, and I just kind of I created

905
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,599
this three part series for the Joe Blow Network, and

906
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,280
that kind of connected to other properties that I was

907
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:44,760
very interested in. Somebody in your chat guessed it right there.

908
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,519
Bradshaw Ranch is one of the properties, and then the

909
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:51,840
other one is Stardust Ranch. So there's these three properties,

910
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:56,559
and Stardust is completely different because it's just John Edmonds

911
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:01,679
and his stories of samurai sword fighting aliens and chopping

912
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,760
up their bodies and putting in deep razers and stuff

913
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,599
like that. Fantastic, But there's a lot of stuff behind

914
00:58:07,679 --> 00:58:11,400
all of that that really connects the three properties. Just

915
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,039
to kind of give a little teaser out there, rumor

916
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:19,480
is Okay, I do have the evidence in my book,

917
00:58:20,199 --> 00:58:22,079
and I don't know when it's gonna come out, but

918
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:28,079
Robert Bigelow actually made an attempt to purchase bradg Our

919
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,199
Starbust Ranch before he purchased Skinwalker Ranch.

920
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,239
Speaker 3: Wow.

921
00:58:33,599 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 2: So if that kind of shows you you know what

922
00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:41,880
kind of evidence could potentially be there besides John edmonds

923
00:58:43,159 --> 00:58:49,199
crazy stories about samurai fighting gray aliens. Let that be

924
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:50,119
evidence for itself.

925
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 3: Man. I can't wait to read that one as well.

926
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,239
We'll definitely have you on when that comes out, hopefully,

927
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,239
we'll have you on before. But man, it was such

928
00:58:57,239 --> 00:58:59,119
a great joy talking to you. Jeremy, thanks so much

929
00:58:59,159 --> 00:58:59,960
for coming on the show.

930
00:59:00,239 --> 00:59:04,559
Speaker 2: No, Dean, man, it was amazing being here. I appreciate it.

931
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:06,679
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate you, and I have to get to

932
00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:08,920
talk to you again soon, and I have to get

933
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,000
to talk to everybody else out there even sooner, which

934
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,440
will be Same Weird time, nine pm Central, Same Weird network,

935
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,679
the Untold Radio Network next Thursday, and until then, please

936
00:59:18,719 --> 00:59:20,599
everybody keep it weird.